Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[The Sultan]

Just saw this quote from Moshe Dayan, the former Israeli defense minister who went on to become a major advocate for peace, helping to negotiate the 1978 Israel-Egypt peace treaty:

"If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies."

And you have to trust them. And it doesn't help that the Israelis have taken advantage of the West Bank Palestinians relative weakness to annex East Jerusalem and erect settlements in the West Bank.

Israel trusted Egypt. They de-occupied the Sanai, and have been at peace with them since.

[lawdog77]

Thanks for reiterating my point. Appreciate the support.
Next time, instead of being so eager to disagree with me, read the full discussion first.

I did, and your point seems to be off topic. Lenny's point was about getting genocidal regimes out of place. Your point that "legislation"  to get rid of the power. You cant get that legislation written without first removing those in power.

[forgetful]

And you have to trust them. And it doesn't help that the Israelis have taken advantage of the West Bank Palestinians relative weakness to annex East Jerusalem and erect settlements in the West Bank.

Israel trusted Egypt. They de-occupied the Sanai, and have been at peace with them since.

Is that surprising? The Likud Party's 1999 official platform is to ensure there is no Palestinian state west of the Jordan river and to Unify the entire region under Israeli control through settlements.

They trusted Egypt and made peace with them, because it made it easier to achieve their goals.

[forgetful]

This is also terrorism and needs to be globally denounced.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/middleeast/west-bank-settler-attacks-israel-cmd-intl/index.html


Even using barbaric tactics of using a primary attack, to have rescuers come try to save those who were attacked, while gunmen wait to kill the first responders. Children murdered in their homes? Sound familiar.

[Hards Alumni]

This is also terrorism and needs to be globally denounced.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/middleeast/west-bank-settler-attacks-israel-cmd-intl/index.html


Even using barbaric tactics of using a primary attack, to have rescuers come try to save those who were attacked, while gunmen wait to kill the first responders. Children murdered in their homes? Sound familiar.

The world will turn a blind eye because they're Palestinians.  Everything that Hamas has done excuses this type of behavior that has been perpetrated for years. 

MU82 told me that his friend from Tel-Aviv said that Israel isn't an apartheid state.  If that is the case, why are settlers allowed to take land away?  Why do Palestinians have different license plates?  Well to make sure they don't drive on the wrong roads in the Palestinian West Bank of course!

[Pakuni]

I did, and your point seems to be off topic. Lenny's point was about getting genocidal regimes out of place. Your point that "legislation"  to get rid of the power. You cant get that legislation written without first removing those in power.

I'll spare everyone the off-topic, seventh grade history lesson here, but no, the Civil War did not remove the purveyors of white supremacism (of which slavery was a symptom) from power in the South. The ghosts of George Wallace, Bull Connor, Eugene Talmadge, Orval Faubus, Ross Barnett and dozens more like them - not to mention those who lived under segregation and Jim Crow - might dispute your take on that.
As for legislation, didn't the 13th Amendment pass Congress in the midst of the Civil War? Didn't the Civil Rights Act pass with near total opposition from Southern segregationists?

As a side note, Lenny should feel fortunate nobody has called out his take that World War II was fought over Hitler's racial ideology.

[lawdog77]

I'll spare everyone the off-topic, seventh grade history lesson here, but no, the Civil War did not remove the purveyors of white supremacism (of which slavery was a symptom) from power in the South. The ghosts of George Wallace, Bull Connor, Eugene Talmadge, Orval Faubus, Ross Barnett and dozens more like them - not to mention those who lived under segregation and Jim Crow - might dispute your take on that.
As for legislation, didn't the 13th Amendment pass Congress in the midst of the Civil War? Didn't the Civil Rights Act pass with near total opposition from Southern segregationists?

As a side note, Lenny should feel fortunate nobody has called out his take that World War II was fought over Hitler's racial ideology.

You may want to go back to 7th grade, the 13th amendment wasn't ratified until after the war ended.

[Pakuni]

You may want to go back to 7th grade, the 13th amendment wasn't ratified until after the war ended.

Again, you may want to read what I actually wrote instead of being so eager to disagree.

[lawdog77]

Again, you may want to read what I actually wrote instead of being so eager to disagree.

Passing means nothing until it is ratified. War got it passed. Sometimes war is necessary, unfortunately. Also, look at the 13th Amendment dradt before the war started

[Pakuni]

Passing means nothing until it is ratified. War got it passed. Sometimes war is necessary, unfortunately. Also, look at the 13th Amendment dradt before the war started

Better yet, look at what it took to get it ratified. You may find it conflicts with your insistence that the Civil War removed white supremacists from power in the South.

[Skatastrophy]

Finally we can talk about the United State's need to finally finish reconstruction.

Thank you, Hamas, for helping us have this conversation.

[lawdog77]

Better yet, look at what it took to get it ratified. You may find it conflicts with your insistence that the Civil War removed white supremacists from power in the South.

I never said that. Talk about lack of reading comprehension.

[Uncle Rico]

Finally we can talk about the United State's need to finally finish reconstruction.

Thank you, Hamas, for helping us have this conversation.

Plus, the Civil War was clearly about states rights

[Pakuni]

I never said that. Talk about lack of reading comprehension.

Oh?
"You cant get that legislation written without first removing those in power."

Of course, you've also shifted goalposts from "get that legislation written" to "get an amendment ratified."
And Skatastrophy is 100 percent correct. No more Civil War talk from me.

[lawdog77]

Oh?
"You cant get that legislation written without first removing those in power."

Of course, you've also shifted goalposts from "get that legislation written" to "get an amendment ratified."
And Skatastrophy is 100 percent correct. No more Civil War talk from me.

I was talking about slavery

[MU82]

And you have to trust them. And it doesn't help that the Israelis have taken advantage of the West Bank Palestinians relative weakness to annex East Jerusalem and erect settlements in the West Bank.

Israel trusted Egypt. They de-occupied the Sanai, and have been at peace with them since.

Fair points. I'd posit that a close cousin of "you have to trust them" is "you have to work with them to build trust." Very difficult concepts in highly charged situations.

MU82 told me that his friend from Tel-Aviv said that Israel isn't an apartheid state.  If that is the case, why are settlers allowed to take land away?  Why do Palestinians have different license plates?  Well to make sure they don't drive on the wrong roads in the Palestinian West Bank of course!

It was my sister-in-law saying that. I was just passing along her observations and opinions, and I qualified it by saying she was very Jewish and very pro-Israel. You can define and/or interpret things however you want; I do not have the expertise on what is an isn't an apartheid state to have an opinion.

[Hards Alumni]

It was my sister-in-law saying that. I was just passing along her observations and opinions, and I qualified it by saying she was very Jewish and very pro-Israel. You can define and/or interpret things however you want; I do not have the expertise on what is an isn't an apartheid state to have an opinion.

I know.  I wasn't implying otherwise.  You should probably ask her about those things next time you speak.

[lawdog77]

I know.  I wasn't implying otherwise.  You should probably ask her about those things next time you speak.

Or how about asking/talking about less divisive stuff

[Hards Alumni]

Or how about asking/talking about less divisive stuff

Yeah, it would be terrible to discuss the current politics of the region his SIL lives in after she's already brought it up.

There is no gun to his head.  He doesn't have to.

[JWags85]

For someone who "just wants peace/the war to end" you seem pretty acutely pissed at only one specific side and are quick to go at the neck of anyone who seems remotely favorable to Israel at the moment.  And now are suggesting people start contentious arguments with family members cause those family members aren't thinking/saying what you want them to.

[Hards Alumni]

For someone who "just wants peace/the war to end" you seem pretty acutely pissed at only one specific side and are quick to go at the neck of anyone who seems remotely favorable to Israel at the moment.  And now are suggesting people start contentious arguments with family members cause those family members aren't thinking/saying what you want them to.

No, I just think people who are ignoring a major problem should probably consider what is actually happening.  MU82's SIL clearly brought the topic up.  Why would asking her question,s she may not have thought about, be considered contentious?  Again, Mr 82 doesn't have to do this.  But he posted her thoughts.  Is that a topic that is unacceptable to discuss on this forum?

Once again.  I do not favor either side.  I want it to end.  Both sides have acted very poorly.

The people who keep calling me one sided here seem to be telling on themselves.  They're the same people who breathlessly defend Israel at ever turn and don't seem to consider both sides of what is happening.

[4everwarriors]

No need to continuously try and explain this away. You are a card carrying member of the Scoop 10. Congrats and ya got dat goin' fore ya, aina?

[lawdog77]

No, I just think people who are ignoring a major problem should probably consider what is actually happening.  MU82's SIL clearly brought the topic up.  Why would asking her question,s she may not have thought about, be considered contentious?  Again, Mr 82 doesn't have to do this.  But he posted her thoughts.  Is that a topic that is unacceptable to discuss on this forum?

Once again.  I do not favor either side.  I want it to end.  Both sides have acted very poorly.

The people who keep calling me one sided here seem to be telling on themselves.  They're the same people who breathlessly defend Israel at ever turn and don't seem to consider both sides of what is happening.

I could see how that conversation would go:

SIL: MU82 its good to hear your voice. We're not sure how long we are going to have phone service, as we have Hezbollah on one side ready to attack, and Hamas sending rockets our way
Mu82: I have been meaning to ask you. Why don't you think Israel is an apartheid state?
SIL: Why the F$%# would you ask me that right now? Are you seriously blaming us for the terrorist attack? Did I ask you about US policies over here, right after 9-11?
MU82: Well this internet guy said I should ask you
Line goes dead

[Hards Alumni]

I could see how that conversation would go:

SIL: MU82 its good to hear your voice. We're not sure how long we are going to have phone service, as we have Hezbollah on one side ready to attack, and Hamas sending rockets our way
Mu82: I have been meaning to ask you. Why don't you think Israel is an apartheid state?
SIL: Why the F$%# would you ask me that right now? Are you seriously blaming us for the terrorist attack? Did I ask you about US policies over here, right after 9-11?
MU82: Well this internet guy said I should ask you
Line goes dead

Quite a vivid imagination you have there.

[MU82]

I could see how that conversation would go:

SIL: MU82 its good to hear your voice. We're not sure how long we are going to have phone service, as we have Hezbollah on one side ready to attack, and Hamas sending rockets our way
Mu82: I have been meaning to ask you. Why don't you think Israel is an apartheid state?
SIL: Why the F$%# would you ask me that right now? Are you seriously blaming us for the terrorist attack? Did I ask you about US policies over here, right after 9-11?
MU82: Well this internet guy said I should ask you
Line goes dead

Wow! You know my sister-in-law!