Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

It would have been nice if the NYT and major media outlets actually waited for this to be investigated/confirmed yesterday instead of believing Hamas immediately.

It would have been nice if the WSJ and major media outlets actually waited for Iranian involvement and infant beheadings to be confirmed instead of believing Israel immediately.

Our media runs off of clicks and emotion based feedback. They should all work on not talking in the passive voice and making it clear what is ongoing in confirmation and research.

[4everwarriors]

Who was it then?

I blame Crean, aina?

[Lennys Tap]

Boy that sure sounds definitive, and that in no way the US would be covering for its ally!

Let's just wait for the independent investigation.  I'm going to cool my jets on this one for a while.

Wait. I thought you said it was definitive. Had to be Israel, couldn't be Hamas. Anything else was lies. NOW you've decided to "cool your jets"?

[lawdog77]

I blame Crean, aina?

Just clearing some land for the new soccer stadium

[rocket surgeon]

Boy that sure sounds definitive, and that in no way the US would be covering for its ally!

Let's just wait for the independent investigation.  I'm going to cool my jets on this one for a while.

  yeah, and still waiting to see if iran knows anything about israel-gaza conflict...not enough evidence i guess. 

  while you're "cooling" those "jets" maybe you can find out if it's proper to wear a kilt with or without wears cuz i'd be worried about the johnson hangin below the mason-dixon line, eyn'a?

[Uncle Rico]

  yeah, and still waiting to see if iran knows anything about israel-gaza conflict...not enough evidence i guess. 

  while you're "cooling" those "jets" maybe you can find out if it's proper to wear a kilt with or without wears cuz i'd be worried about the johnson hangin below the mason-dixon line, eyn'a?

9.5 out of 10

[4everwarriors]

https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1714718988876284037?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714718988876284037%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=about%3Ablank



Aw man, another erection, hey?

[Hards Alumni]

Wait. I thought you said it was definitive. Had to be Israel, couldn't be Hamas. Anything else was lies. NOW you've decided to "cool your jets"?

Please quote my post where I said that.  I suggest not wasting your time, because I didn't.  I merely that Israel lied.  Which they did.  Just like they did with Shireen Abu Akleh's murder.

Israel's official story has changed at least five times since any information was released.  I never once said anything definitive about one or the other being responsible.  Furthermore, even Israel says it wasn't Hamas.  LOL.

I'm currently saying that the only way anyone here will get the right information is by waiting for an independent investigation.

I have repeatedly said that both sides are at fault and should work towards peace.

[Hards Alumni]

  yeah, and still waiting to see if iran knows anything about israel-gaza conflict...not enough evidence i guess. 

  while you're "cooling" those "jets" maybe you can find out if it's proper to wear a kilt with or without wears cuz i'd be worried about the johnson hangin below the mason-dixon line, eyn'a?

I think what you're getting at is that I have a big dick.  I don't know, dude.  You're so weird.

[4everwarriors]

Hards, tell me you weren't a history major. There will NEVER be peace in the Middle East so long as one side will gladly use their children as human shields, go on suicide missions for Allah, and vow to drive the Israelis "from the river to the sea," hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Hards, tell me you weren't a history major. There will NEVER be peace in the Middle East so long as one side will gladly use their children as human shields, go on suicide missions for Allah, and vow to drive the Israelis "from the river to the sea," hey?

When, in any age of history, has there been peace in the Middle East?

[JWags85]

Furthermore, even Israel says it wasn't Hamas.  LOL.

You say that like "LOL Israel doesn't even know who it is". They said it was the PIJ, who is literally a Hamas ally with the same general aims and also deemed a terrorist organization by many countries.  That's not some dunk on the IDF or anyone claiming it's not Israel.

Related, anyone who is calling for a "ceasefire" is either, at worst, tacitly endorsing Hamas' aggressions with a "whatever it takes" sort of support for Palestine, or at best an unserious person with limited understanding of what it would actually be.  It's essentially just trying to bully Israel into a non-aggression pact because we know Hamas wouldn't give a damn about it.

[lawdog77]

Sounds good.  I can retract that portion if you'd like.  Deal with the rest though.  Israel denies it despite the size of the explosion.  It's lies.

The rockets that Hamas uses doesn't have the ability to destroy a hospital.

Here's one of them Hards.

[Skatastrophy]

My favorite thing about Scoop is that we all take such extreme positions.

IDK what Israel's end game should be here. I don't think they want to actually occupy Gaza because that's a thankless job, and I don't think they can realistically wipe out Hamas without wiping out Gaza which would start a world war. I guess they just bomb them for a while? Then build a DMZ like North Korea's?

[The Sultan]

My favorite thing about Scoop is that we all take such extreme positions.

IDK what Israel's end game should be here. I don't think they want to actually occupy Gaza because that's a thankless job, and I don't think they can realistically wipe out Hamas without wiping out Gaza which would start a world war. I guess they just bomb them for a while? Then build a DMZ like North Korea's?

Yep. Same as before probably.

[Pakuni]

My favorite thing about Scoop is that we all take such extreme positions.

IDK what Israel's end game should be here. I don't think they want to actually occupy Gaza because that's a thankless job, and I don't think they can realistically wipe out Hamas without wiping out Gaza which would start a world war. I guess they just bomb them for a while? Then build a DMZ like North Korea's?

I think Israel is going to have to take this a bit further than that, for better or worse (probably worse). A repeat of 2008 or 2014 won't be seen as going nearly far enough, particularly among Netanyahu's supporters.
I agree that Israel wants no part in governing or occupying Gaza long term, but I don't see how they walk away from this with the status quo intact.

[Hards Alumni]

You say that like "LOL Israel doesn't even know who it is". They said it was the PIJ, who is literally a Hamas ally with the same general aims and also deemed a terrorist organization by many countries.  That's not some dunk on the IDF or anyone claiming it's not Israel.

Related, anyone who is calling for a "ceasefire" is either, at worst, tacitly endorsing Hamas' aggressions with a "whatever it takes" sort of support for Palestine, or at best an unserious person with limited understanding of what it would actually be.  It's essentially just trying to bully Israel into a non-aggression pact because we know Hamas wouldn't give a damn about it.

I can call for a ceasefire without endorsing Hamas.  Look, here I go.  Israel and Hamas should agree to a ceasefire.  A lot of people on both sides have been killed and many more will be killed before this is over.  Why not skip the part where many more die?  It isn't as if there is going to be peace in Israel/Gaza as soon as Hamas is wiped out... which they won't be anyway.  Some other group will just take their place and continue on with the same aims.  Blowing each other to pieces and murdering civilians will continue until both sides can reach an agreement that is deemed fair for all.  Of course, this is no easy task, but it will be required regardless of how long the war rages on.

We haven't learned anything in the last two decades of war in the world.  I said it the last time, you can't kill an ideology with a gun.

It's not a dunk, its just me poking Lenny for making crap up. 

[Hards Alumni]

Here's one of them Hards.

None of what I said is inaccurate, and it doesn't say that it has to be Israel and not Hamas.

You're a lawyer, you can read.

[Pakuni]

Related, anyone who is calling for a "ceasefire" is either, at worst, tacitly endorsing Hamas' aggressions with a "whatever it takes" sort of support for Palestine, or at best an unserious person with limited understanding of what it would actually be.  It's essentially just trying to bully Israel into a non-aggression pact because we know Hamas wouldn't give a damn about it.

Is this guy unserious or tacitly endorsing Hamas' murder of his parents?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/israeli-lost-parents-hamas-massacre-104217998.html

(For the record, I don't agree with him on a ceasefire)

[lawdog77]

None of what I said is inaccurate, and it doesn't say that it has to be Israel and not Hamas.

You're a lawyer, you can read.

Yes, you said Israel denies it was them. And you said they are lying about it. That is completely inaccurate.

[Hards Alumni]

I think Israel is going to have to take this a bit further than that, for better or worse (probably worse). A repeat of 2008 or 2014 won't be seen as going nearly far enough, particularly among Netanyahu's supporters.
I agree that Israel wants no part in governing or occupying Gaza long term, but I don't see how they walk away from this with the status quo intact.

UN administered temporary government in Gaza to assist with rebuild, elections, and governance.  Hamas cannot be allowed to exist in any form.  Gaza recognized as its own nation, and Gaza must recognize Israel as a nation.  Israel will have to lift its blockade of Gaza.  Unfortunately, Gaza will continue to have to exist as a police state until relations with Israel improve.

The West Bank is going to be a whole other story.

Of course this won't fix everything, but it is at least somewhere to start.

[lawdog77]

Sure it was. Hamas is firing rockets into southern Gaza.
This was Hamas too, I'm sure.

https://time.com/6324775/hundreds-killed-israeli-airstrike-gaza-hospital/

From Reuters:The military also released an audio file and a transcript of what it said was a conversation between two Hamas militants saying an Islamic Jihad rocket had misfired. It was not possible to verify the material independently. The audio was edited including with bleeps to obscure words and names.

Hamas did not immediately comment on the audio.

The military said some 450 rockets fired from Gaza had fallen short and landed in the Gaza Strip in the past 11 days.

[JWags85]

I can call for a ceasefire without endorsing Hamas.  Look, here I go.  Israel and Hamas should agree to a ceasefire.  A lot of people on both sides have been killed and many more will be killed before this is over.  Why not skip the part where many more die?  It isn't as if there is going to be peace in Israel/Gaza as soon as Hamas is wiped out... which they won't be anyway.  Some other group will just take their place and continue on with the same aims.  Blowing each other to pieces and murdering civilians will continue until both sides can reach an agreement that is deemed fair for all.  Of course, this is no easy task, but it will be required regardless of how long the war rages on.

We haven't learned anything in the last two decades of war in the world.  I said it the last time, you can't kill an ideology with a gun.

It's not a dunk, its just me poking Lenny for making crap up.

That's fine, you can say anything you want, but it's based in some unserious notion pertaining to Hamas.  If this was Israel vs the PLO, or even Fatah, I could understand the argument.  But not with an organization like Hamas who will never stop cause they have no interest in peace with an existing Israel.

And I feel for this man's suffering, and even more so respect his desire for peace in place of a very understandable desire for revenge...but to me, "ending the war" is still one sided.  Israel declared war on Hamas last week.  Hamas has had war declared on Israel for 20+ years.  They aren't going to stop cause Israel/the world asked nicely.

I certainly don't have a solution or all the answers, but the only way I ever see pushing any peace forward is people/a group within the Palestinian ranks and cause who can neuter Hamas to an extent that a non-eradication of Israel voice can actually speak to peace and a true 2 state solution

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, you said Israel denies it was them. And you said they are lying about it. That is completely inaccurate.

It isn't.  Israel denies it was them, that's fine.  But they also released a LOT of misinformation immediately after the bombing.  Much of it was proven false quickly, and their story changed.  So, yes, it was lies.

The current version is what is sticking.  But I don't consider this issue resolved.  Nor should you until there is an independent investigation.

[JWags85]

UN administered temporary government in Gaza to assist with rebuild, elections, and governance.  Hamas cannot be allowed to exist in any form.  Gaza recognized as its own nation, and Gaza must recognize Israel as a nation.  Israel will have to lift its blockade of Gaza.  Unfortunately, Gaza will continue to have to exist as a police state until relations with Israel improve.

The West Bank is going to be a whole other story.

Of course this won't fix everything, but it is at least somewhere to start.

FWIW as one of the more "pro-Israel" voices in this thread, I have no issue with this plan.  I think Gaza and West Bank existing as 2 separate nation states could be an issue, but otherwise it's reasonable. And honestly think it's a pretty palatable outcome for a modern, non Bibi/Likud minded Israel