Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

This would have never happened if they found a place for the Palestinians in Mequon.

[4everwarriors]

They are welcome with open arms. All they have to be able to do is afford it, hey?

[forgetful]

They are welcome with open arms. All they have to be able to do is afford it, hey?

And they have to get out of Gaza. Which they now can't, because Israel bombed the only border crossing to stop anyone from leaving.

[4everwarriors]

Actions have consequences. Maybe call an Uber, aina?

[Galway Eagle]

Actions have consequences. Maybe call an Uber, aina?

So let's say that the democratic governor, someone you vehemently oppose, of your state decided to unilaterally take up arms against our government and started by invading Chicagoland. The feds said "get out of WI because we're opening the gates of hell" (even though you physically can't because of blockades) you would just feel like "well my actions of living here have consequences..."

[4everwarriors]

The only way things will change is when the voters change the way they vote, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

The only way things will change is when the voters change the way they vote, hey?

Yeah, take a look at Republicans who keep voting for Trump and Trump candidates.  Great strategy for the party, aina?

[MU82]

82, where we disagree here, is I don't believe Trump is antisemitic, hey?

We actually disagree on quite a bit involving respect for and support of Judaism. As for your question, see this:

Would you say giving credence to those who vocally support antisemitism is antisemitic?

Credence, yes. Also aid and comfort. He also courts their support, despite their violent rhetoric and heinous acts.

And this:

I've never seen another president in my lifetime play footsie with white supremacist organizations, suck up to Russian tyrants or praise communist dictators.
How about you?

Don't forget that you've never seen another president foment a violent coup attempt against his own country, all built on a lie he could sell to his cultists.

[Galway Eagle]

The only way things will change is when the voters change the way they vote, hey?

How? Hamas was put in power without election. So again we circle back to the scenario I put forth, would you stil stand firm about choices having consequences if it was your home on the line to a government you don't support?

[muwarrior69]

I've never seen another president in my lifetime play footsie with white supremacist terrorist organizations, suck up to Russian Iranian tyrants or praise Chinese communist dictators.
How about you?

Hmm.

[Pakuni]

Hmm.

Hmmm.
Citations needed.

Or, were you talking about this?
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-xi-jinping-brilliant-hollywood-good-looks-brains-2023-4

[MU82]

Hmmm.
Citations needed.

Or, were you talking about this?
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-xi-jinping-brilliant-hollywood-good-looks-brains-2023-4

Yep. Or this?
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-race-and-ethnicity-donald-trump-chris-wallace-0b32339da25fbc9e8b7c7c7066a1db0f

[jesmu84]

Why did Israel ignore Egyptian intelligence warnings?

[muwarrior69]

https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/hamas-kills-40-babies-and-children-beheading-some-of-them-at-israeli-kibbutz-report/

[forgetful]

Why did Israel ignore Egyptian intelligence warnings?

There were a lot of comparisons to this being Israel's "Pearl Harbor." There were reports, and still conspiracy theories regarding whether the US knew about the Pearl Harbor attack before it happened, and that the US underestimated the capabilities of Japan and how much damage an attack could do.

I see some analogies here. I have a hard time believing that Israel's intelligence network completely missed this. And reports from Egypt saying they were warned are interesting. I don't think Netanyahu knew anything, but that doesn't mean others in positions of power didn't. Including the Minister of National Security.

I find it hard to believe they didn't know something was going to happen (especially with it being on the anniversary of a major attack). My guess is that some greatly underestimated the magnitude of damage Hamas could inflict. It's a conspiracy theory, but I'm wondering if some were warned, were aware an attack might happen, but underestimated Hamas' capabilities, and overestimated their own defense capabilities.

Iran isn't the only party that didn't want this deal to go through. Some far-right nationalists in the Israeli government also did not want this deal to go through. Those leaders were the ones pushing for settlers etc., to enter, and threatened, to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. One of the lead proponents of that movement "Itmar Ben-Gvir," (Minister of National Security), led an incursion into the mosque area just before the recent attacks.

His goal is to have Israel settle the entire West Bank, with most Palestinians forced to leave to other Arab nations.

The Saudi-Israeli deal would have essentially ended his goals.

His actions over the last couple months (in regards to the Al-Aqsa mosque), and rhetoric and hate speech, led to much of this violence. And his role in the government would have given him access to essentially all intelligence about any possible attacks.

Note: The focus on the Al-Aqsa mosque by the far right Israelis was intentional. In Arab culture, the Saudi King is responsible for safeguarding the Al-Aqsa mosque. So the attacks/incursions on the mosque were directed attacks against Saudi Arabia.

There is a lot more to this and what has been brewing for a while, some of the other elements are less known in the west, because they are particularly important to the Arab world, and Islam, and less understood in regards of importance by western media.

For those unaware of some of the tensions behind the scenes prior to everything going on now. Look up Itamar Ben-Gvir.

[Jockey]

The only way things will change is when the voters change the way they vote, hey?

They did and you guys attempted a coup over it.

[JWags85]

For the love of god, this thread has tons of potential to be contentious as is, but we've managed to get 16 pages despite plenty of differing opinions, beliefs, and even some personal attacks...and there is a TON of good info and sharing of thoughts in here...

So can we not melt this into another Trump/Biden/Jan 6th/BLM Riot/etc... shitshow that every other thread with a remotely political tinge gets sucked into?  Its like copypasta at this point.

I specifically didn't share something absurd I saw today because I knew it would potentially nuke the progress of this thread.  So in that vein, just be better everyone and continue sharing the collective intelligence, life experiences, and educated ruminations on a wildly complex and deep geopolitical event that this thread can be and has been

[StillAWarrior]

So can we not melt this into another Trump/Biden/Jan 6th/BLM Riot/etc... crapshow that every other thread with a remotely political tinge gets sucked into?

Too bad you couldn't make this into a poll. I'd vote "No"

[MU82]

I specifically didn't share something absurd I saw today because I knew it would potentially nuke the progress of this thread.

Tease.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

My guess is you know very little about the history of Israel and Palestine.

Either way

[JWags85]

Imagine thinking majority of Israelis are white and/or non-brown.

[Skatastrophy]

Imagine thinking majority of Israelis are white and/or non-brown.

I mean, I saw Fiddler on the Roof

[Galway Eagle]

Imagine thinking majority of Israelis are white and/or non-brown.

To be fair we are taught to group people of Greek, Armenian, southern Italian/sicilian, Spanish & Portuguese descent as white so these arbitrary guidelines that keep changing (last I checked North African descent and levant is considered white?) so maybe it's a bit too simplistic to point and say "you're brown"   

[MU82]

Imagine thinking majority of Israelis are white and/or non-brown.

Bazillions refuse to acknowledge that Jesus was a person of color ... so yeah, I can imagine it.

[JWags85]

To be fair we are taught to group people of Greek, Armenian, southern Italian/sicilian, Spanish & Portuguese descent as white so these arbitrary guidelines that keep changing (last I checked North African descent and levant is considered white?) so maybe it's a bit too simplistic to point and say "you're brown"

Yea, but then if the Levant is "white" or "white passing" then Palestinians would also be white.  That's the absurdity of thinking that globally people favor Israelis over Palestinians cause of not caring about brown people vs white people.  This dumb idea that most Israelis look like Jared Greenblatt from Syosset when it's far more likely they are olive skinned and look MUCH closer to what people think Palestinians look like.