Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[tower912]

Number 34 per Pomeroy.

Bravo.

[The Sultan]

Number 34 per Pomeroy.

They had a weak SoS ... not sure how they stack up against a Power 5.

I laughed.

[Uncle Rico]

Brother Rico, you really believe this?

The Jewish population is heavily concentrated in Illinois, New York, New Jersey, California and Florida. There are significant but not overwhelming Jewish populations in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Maryland as well. The belief that somehow the Jewish population is a swing voting block is nestled in the quaint notion that any of these states with significant Jewish populations are in play. Almost none -- not even Florida -- are likely in play.

A long time ago, when Republicans had more than a snowball's chance in hell of capturing New York and Illinois, I might have agreed with you. But not now.

Even if every Jewish person in each state either stayed home or voted Republican (Democratic in Florida and the belief is they already vote Democratic in our state), the only states where the Jewish vote would have a material impact on a presidential election would, possibly, be Pennsylvania. Even there, the Jewish population is but 3.3 percent of the state's population. Nationally, the 2022 census estimate found 7.4 million Jews, or 2.2 percent of the total population. Also, this assumes Jews vote as a block and I don't think they go to synagogue to be told how to vote!

Finally, if you folks are going to go all Scoop on me, here's my source:  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-in-the-united-states-by-state.

The United States supports Israel because we support Democracies around the world and because Israel has stood with us in fighting terrorism. Israel has been a strong ally of the United States and that's not likely to change.

We support democracies around the world, huh?  That would be news to some.  We also support a lot of nations that aren't democracies. 

We support Israel because politicians and the parties want the votes

[JWags85]

Yeah, one doesn't have to look very deep into history to see why this is a terrible idea.  And Afghanistan and Iraq would look like walks in the park compared to Iran.  Iran's military is probably one of the top 20 in the world - probably on par with Israel right now.

The comps to Afghanistan and Iraq armies I certainly agree with. When it comes to Iran, I don't think there is gonna be another Republican Guard paper tiger that gets rolled over.  But Iran's military strength comes from pure numbers and ground capabilities.  But in a conflict in 2023-2024 you could argue the two most important elements are aerial strength and intelligence/counter intelligence, two areas you'd probably pencil them in as having significant superiority to Iran.  Israel's Air Force probably only trails the US and Russia and we all know how proficient Mossad is at what they do.

But this is all academic as there's very little chance Israel is going to full on hot war with Iran and if so, things have gotten VERY bad.

We support Israel because politicians and the parties want the votes

Thats a bit reductionist, IMO.  Israel support has 1000% become a political lever and cudgel but I think support for Israel, at its root, is the support of another young democratic republic with ideals representing a lot of similarities to what the US was built on.  Not to mention the regular migration of Jewish families back and forth.

Its not like Israel is Singapore or another younger country that shares very little with US ideals.

[MuggsyB]

We support democracies around the world, huh?  That would be news to some.  We also support a lot of nations that aren't democracies. 

We support Israel because politicians and the parties want the votes

This is fking absurd. 

[rocket surgeon]

This was debunked pages ago. Keep up.

  i just said it was "weird" for those of you in rio linda...

the part that killed it for me was when iran was asked if they were using any of the $6 bil for bombs and rockets, they said, heck no, whatyda think we are?  barbarians err sumpin? 

       so there ya have it right from the men of cloth

i feel so much better knowing that iran agreed to only use that $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes". 

      with iran being compassionate philanthropists they are, i just hope that's enough to get them thru a few months or so of feeding the poor and clothing the naked   

[The Sultan]

  i just said it was "weird" for those of you in rio linda...

the part that killed it for me was when iran was asked if they were using any of the $6 bil for bombs and rockets, they said, heck no, whatyda think we are?  barbarians err sumpin? 

       so there ya have it right from the men of cloth

i feel so much better knowing that iran agreed to only use that $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes". 

      with iran being compassionate philanthropists they are, i just hope that's enough to get them thru a few months or so of feeding the poor and clothing the naked   

You realize that they have none of that money right?

And do you realize it wasn't our money to give to them?  It is their money that has been frozen in accounts in South Korea.

[Uncle Rico]

This is fking absurd.

That we support democracies across the globe?  Might want to let some of our political leaders know that.

That we support nations that aren't democracies?  Might want to let some of our political leaders know that.

That we support Israel simply because it's a democracy?  Naivete.

Hope the info mossad is sharing with us is better than what they had this past weekend when we implement your plan to wipe Iranian leadership out

[The Sultan]

The comps to Afghanistan and Iraq armies I certainly agree with. When it comes to Iran, I don't think there is gonna be another Republican Guard paper tiger that gets rolled over.  But Iran's military strength comes from pure numbers and ground capabilities.  But in a conflict in 2023-2024 you could argue the two most important elements are aerial strength and intelligence/counter intelligence, two areas you'd probably pencil them in as having significant superiority to Iran.  Israel's Air Force probably only trails the US and Russia and we all know how proficient Mossad is at what they do.

But you aren't doing "regime change" unless you occupy the country.  We tried doing the air power thing ineffectively for years in Iraq (remember No Fly Zones?), only to finally invade to get rid of Saddam (greeted as liberators!), and it still turned into a disaster.

Iran would be significantly worse. 

[Pakuni]

  i just said it was "weird" for those of you in rio linda...

the part that killed it for me was when iran was asked if they were using any of the $6 bil for bombs and rockets, they said, heck no, whatyda think we are?  barbarians err sumpin? 

       so there ya have it right from the men of cloth

i feel so much better knowing that iran agreed to only use that $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes". 

      with iran being compassionate philanthropists they are, i just hope that's enough to get them thru a few months or so of feeding the poor and clothing the naked

Sigh.
This isn't, er, rocket science.

$6 billion was not given to Iran. Not one penny has been given to Iran. Money was moved from a restricted account in South Korea to a restricted account in Qatar. That money, if spent, will be paid directly to vendors selling Iran food, medicine and other humanitarian goods. Iran will never lay a finger on it. They can't ask for $500 million for humanitarian purchases, then go buy missiles with that money on the sly. They don't control the money.

Think of it like a trust account set up for suddenly orphaned child. That child won't simply be cut a check to spend as they please. A trustee will control the money and spend it on the child's needs. Same thing here. Iran is the child. The U.S. Treasury is the trustee.

Sorry that doesn't fiy your narrative but it is what it is.

[MU82]

Sigh.
This isn't, er, rocket science.

$6 billion was not given to Iran. Not one penny has been given to Iran. Money was moved from a restricted account in South Korea to a restricted account in Qatar. That money, if spent, will be paid directly to vendors selling Iran food, medicine and other humanitarian goods. Iran will never lay a finger on it. They can't ask for $500 million for humanitarian purchases, then go buy missiles with that money on the sly. They don't control the money.

Think of it like a trust account set up for suddenly orphaned child. That child won't simply be cut a check to spend as they please. A trustee will control the money and spend it on the child's needs. Same thing here.

Sorry that doesn't fiy your narrative but it is what it is.

Good try, Pak, but roQQet NEEDS that $6B to already have been spent on bombs used against Israelis. Facts aren't relevant, silly!

[Uncle Rico]

But you aren't doing "regime change" unless you occupy the country.  We tried doing the air power thing ineffectively for years in Iraq (remember No Fly Zones?), only to finally invade to get rid of Saddam (greeted as liberators!), and it still turned into a disaster.

Iran would be significantly worse.

Who takes over in Iran?  What's the plan of succession?  I love the idea of Iranian freedom and democracy.  But it's just an idea and it's pure folly to believe America can remove the current leadership and provide a framework of democracy and expect it to spring forth because we provided the opportunity. 

[Pakuni]

But in a conflict in 2023-2024 you could argue the two most important elements are aerial strength and intelligence/counter intelligence, two areas you'd probably pencil them in as having significant superiority to Iran.  Israel's Air Force probably only trails the US and Russia and we all know how proficient Mossad is at what they do.

Doesn't Russia's experience in Ukraine kind of belie the importance of air superiority, particularly in a war seeking regime change?
As for the Mossad, their reputation suffered a pretty big blow this weekend. This wasn't 17 guys boarding four airplanes. They completely whiffed on a coordinated attack involving hundreds of fighters  crossing over multiple points in what should be one of the most heavily guarded borders in the world.
Heads should roll.

[Galway Eagle]

This is fking absurd. 

It is not, Iran is what it is right now because we toppled their elected government... a democracy because BP was concerned they might use their own resources.

We've also overthrow. One or two Guatemalan democratically elected officials, one at the bequest of a fruit company.

Oh and supported the military overthrow of Isabel Peron who was an elected VP of her husband when died.

Let's also not forget it's become in vogue for one of the two parties in this country to candidly support Russia or in the least give credence to its invasion of Ukraine.

I'm sure there's more instances but if there isn't that should show we don't have any problems with not supporting a democracy when it is in our best interest. Supporting Israel is in our best interest because it gives us a strong middle eastern ally that isn't a direct threat or competitor. It has nothing to do with them being a democracy.

[Uncle Rico]

It is not, Iran is what it is right now because we toppled their elected government... a democracy because BP was concerned they might use their own resources.

We've also overthrow. One or two Guatemalan democratically elected officials, one at the bequest of a fruit company.

Oh and supported the military overthrow of Isabel Peron who was an elected VP of her husband when died.

Let's also not forget it's become in vogue for one of the two parties in this country to candidly support Russia or in the least give credence to its invasion of Ukraine.

I'm sure there's more instances but if there isn't that should show we don't have any problems with not supporting a democracy when it is in our best interest. Supporting Israel is in our best interest because it gives us a strong middle eastern ally that isn't a direct threat or competitor. It has nothing to do with them being a democracy.

The modern history of Iran was set in motion by American and western policy towards it

[rocket surgeon]

Sigh.
This isn't, er, rocket science.

$6 billion was not given to Iran. Not one penny has been given to Iran. Money was moved from a restricted account in South Korea to a restricted account in Qatar. That money, if spent, will be paid directly to vendors selling Iran food, medicine and other humanitarian goods. Iran will never lay a finger on it. They can't ask for $500 million for humanitarian purchases, then go buy missiles with that money on the sly. They don't control the money.

Think of it like a trust account set up for suddenly orphaned child. That child won't simply be cut a check to spend as they please. A trustee will control the money and spend it on the child's needs. Same thing here. Iran is the child. The U.S. Treasury is the trustee.

Sorry that doesn't fiy your narrative but it is what it is.

   actually...thank you for this pakman! 

  btw, i was never good at rocket science, just the surgery part, hence...

[Pakuni]

   actually...thank you for this pakman! 

  btw, i was never good at rocket science, just the surgery part, hence...

You're welcome,
And, to be fair, there is a not-totally-wrong argument to be made that allowing Iran to use this $6 billion on food and medicine frees up money elsewhere to spend on weaponry. I don't think that's entirely wrong, but probably overstated.
History tells us that Iran is going to spend on weapons regardless, even if that means not spending on food and medicine. When it comes to guns or butter, they choose guns. So, this isn't really a matter of allowing them to chose guns over butter, but rather allowing guns and butter.

[21Jumpstreet]

  i just said it was "weird" for those of you in rio linda...

the part that killed it for me was when iran was asked if they were using any of the $6 bil for bombs and rockets, they said, heck no, whatyda think we are?  barbarians err sumpin? 

       so there ya have it right from the men of cloth

i feel so much better knowing that iran agreed to only use that $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes". 

      with iran being compassionate philanthropists they are, i just hope that's enough to get them thru a few months or so of feeding the poor and clothing the naked

I think both are true, and we are all a little naive from our keyboards outside the Middle East. The US will try to make sure the funds are used for what the US determines is humanitarian aid. The Iranians will use it for what they deem humanitarian, and I'm sure protection of their people is top of their list. Both governments are grandstanding, both are trying to display BDE as it were, both care more about themselves and their power than the populace.

We are all getting lost in the propaganda and are being desensitized to the atrocities. If our reactions to what has happened in Israel and Palestine is to argue who is at fault or argue which atrocity is worse, our empathy is being ripped from our being. Actually, we are allowing our empathy to be taken from us. We cannot let that happen or we all will suffer.

[nyg]

Hamas is, as someone else stated, just deplorable.  They have been a terrorist organization for the last 50 years, whose main goal is to eliminate the Jewish population.  The attack on Israel has resulted in 1,000 dead, with almost half of the deaths coming at the hands of Hamas militants on the ground killing individuals face to face.  Hamas crossed the border on foot and in cars and began going house to house.  They slaughtered families, and took the women out of their homes.  The horror at the music festival is now coming in view, with almost 300 dead and numerous hostages taken, the majority of whom are women. Many of the victims took shelter in a bomb shelter and were all executed.  Barbaric actions all over the country.

The rockets being utilized by Hamas are small in a military ordinance sense, but the shear number of them have been effective, causing destruction and casualties in Israel.

There was a saying years ago by some talking head military member, who stated don't piss off Israel.  Well, I guess they are pissed off.  Israel is conducting a strategic process right now.  They have blocked the sea with a naval brigade, are conducting strikes on every electrical station, every water pumping station, electronic communication complex and sites where the Hamas rockets are being fired from. No food, no electric, no water and communications for Gaza.  The troops are starting to deploy at the borders.

Gaza is an extremely small piece of land, which consists mainly of buildings and is the second most densely populated country in the world with 2 million people.  Unlike the Taliban, Hamas has no rural regions/mountains to hide their weapons/arsenal, and as like 4ever stated, they utilize apartments, mosques, hospitals and schools to hide not only their weapons, but their control and command. The Taliban went hiding in the mountains, Hamas has no where to go.  Israel's Mossad probably had intelligence as to where, and now are striking these targets with 500 and 1,000 pound bombs, in attempt to eliminate.  Hamas has no 500 and 1,000 pound bombs. There will be many Gaza citizen deaths, but Israel has to neutralize the threats prior to entering with troops. Mossad is one of the best intel agencies in the world and how they missed the attack is unreal. Another topic for later.

Hamas has no structured army, no Air Force, no navy, as Israel has.  The Israeli troops will have an urban warfare situation when they enter and Israel actually has a training facility for urban warfare in which all IDF goes through the training.  Very dangerous for the Israeli forces when they start to enter.  I guess the US is sending replacement missiles for the Iron Dome system, since Israel has used a boatload so far. 

The hostage situation is complex and may be a turning point, even though Israel will assault Gaza no matter what.
Hamas has stated they are going to kill a hostage for every new Israel airstrike, film it and then publish the video.  Eleven US citizens have died so far and reports say there are also US citizens captured. I can't imagine what would happen if Hamas started to execute any US hostages and sent the video out. Gaza is getting destroyed right now by Israeli air forces and drones.  Hamas has no idea as to what destruction US cruise missiles would result in if the US would retaliate to an execution of US citizens. I hope it does not happen, but Hamas is just a horrendous, violent entity.

[MuggsyB]

That we support democracies across the globe?  Might want to let some of our political leaders know that.

That we support nations that aren't democracies?  Might want to let some of our political leaders know that.

That we support Israel simply because it's a democracy?  Naivete.

Hope the info mossad is sharing with us is better than what they had this past weekend when we implement your plan to wipe Iranian leadership out

We support Israel because of their right to exist as a Jewish State. 

[dgies9156]

Hamas has no idea as to what destruction US cruise missiles would result in if the US would retaliate to an execution of US citizens. I hope it does not happen, but Hamas is just a horrendous, violent entity.

Sorry, but if they execute a United States citizen, they deserve it.

If they do, I hope we level the place.

[tower912]

If Israel levels the place, and in the process kills one or more US citizens, then what?

[Uncle Rico]

We support Israel because of their right to exist as a Jewish State.

So, not because they're a democracy?  Which is it?  Is that why we don't fully support Ukraine?  It doesn't have a right to exist?

[nyg]

Sorry, but if they execute a United States citizen, they deserve it.

If they do, I hope we level the place.

I meant I hope a US citizen is not executed, not if 3,000 pound ordinance cruise missiles destroy Gaza. 

If so, I hope the US knows the location of the hostages and avoids such a tragic incident. 

[rocket surgeon]

We'll rest assured that at least we now have someone in office who's "forte" or specialty was foreign affairs, going to bring peace and "sensibility", decency, unity to the world and previous guy was such a threat to world? 

So yup, we're in good hands where ever he is