Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Uncle Rico]

That doesn't mean Iran doesn't control the money.

Religion kills, man

[Pakuni]

There is an issue with doing these apples to apples comparisons.  Not excusing war crimes or extra judicial killings when they happen, but

"Not excusing war crimes, but" is rarely a good way to start a sentence.

Israel is in a tough spot here, and the world would be better off with Hamas and Hezbollah out of existence.
But this isn't 1948 or 1967 or 1973. Israel is not without blame for the conditions which allow these terrorists to exist. It's an oversimplification to suggest the people carrying out these attack are "evil" or religious fanatics (they're not). They have legitimate political grievances.
To be absolutely clear, attacking Israeli citizens in no way an acceptable means of airing those grievances.  But when it comes to the respective groups' leadership here, there are no good guys.

And yes, the IDF has proven all too happy to kill civilians with malice. There literally are dozens of documented cases.

[HutchwasClutch]

Iran had $6 billion in oil sales under the Trump administration in a South Korean bank. None of it is U.S. taxpayer money. Under the Trump administration, 4 banks were allowed to hold Iranian oil sales money. And under the Trump administration it was agreed to allow the money to be used for humanitarian aid.

Iran doesn't have control of the money. And its use is for humanitarian aid only.

None of the money has been spent yet. It's in a Qatari bank under U.S. Dept of Treasury watch.

But sure make up whatever you want.

So Iran agreed to release 5 American prisoners in exchange to start using that $6B for humanitarian aid.  That's all they'll ever get out of it. Because that's what the Iranian leaders have clearly demonstrated they're about.

[MUBurrow]

Also, it's not like Hamas/Hezbollah is lobbing rockets at strategic IDF sites.  Israel doesn't keep civilians alongside soldiers.  However rebel forces in Gaza and the West Bank do, purposefully putting key strategic sites in residential buildings and areas.  So Israel either attacks rebel leaders and weapons/communications hubs near civilians or they do nothing.  Damned if they do, damned if they don't.  Except the don't leads to dead Israelis with no retaliation.

Again, Israel has done a lot of indefensible  things and more than a few IDF soldiers should have been tried for war crimes/murder.  But acting like Israel kills Palestinian civilians with the same intent and malice as legitimate terrorist groups is just mainlining the PR spin from pro-Palestine/anti-Israel groups.

So I agree with a lot of this in terms of military strategy.  Asymetrical warfare is hard to fight.  America will willfully forget that over the next five years or so, but we should know better than anyone. But as Pakuni pointed out, Israel bears a lot of responsibility for the environment in which Hamas can flourish. 

I take pretty strong umbrage with the bolded above.  Sure, Israel does not actively target civilian targets as Hamas did today.  However Hamas is a militant organization.  Israel is a nation-state with one of the most advanced militaries on the planet.  Netanyahu today said they are "at war."  With whom? War is between two nation states.  Israel is pursuing criminal terrorists.  Israel absolutely does not meet its level of responsibility, as a matter of policy, in sufficiently discriminating between criminal targets and civilian casualties and damages with respect to Gaza and the Palestinians.  Pointing this out is absolutley not "mainlining PR spin from pro-Palestine/anti-Israel groups." 

[Uncle Rico]

So I agree with a lot of this in terms of military strategy.  Asymetrical warfare is hard to fight.  America will willfully forget that over the next five years or so, but we should know better than anyone. But as Pakuni pointed out, Israel bears a lot of responsibility for the environment in which Hamas can flourish. 

I take pretty strong umbrage with the bolded above.  Sure, Israel does not actively target civilian targets as Hamas did today.  However Hamas is a militant organization.  Israel is a nation-state with one of the most advanced militaries on the planet.  Netanyahu today said they are "at war."  With whom? War is between two nation states.  Israel is pursuing criminal terrorists.  Israel absolutely does not meet its level of responsibility, as a matter of policy, in sufficiently discriminating between criminal targets and civilian casualties and damages with respect to Gaza and the Palestinians.  Pointing this out is absolutley not "mainlining PR spin from pro-Palestine/anti-Israel groups."

Netanyahu should have spent more time on security than fighting for more power

[MuggsyB]

Netanyahu should have spent more time on security than fighting for more power

They certainly fked that up which is surprising. 

[jesmu84]

As you were

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401?t=Ui6KNDnen6agCvtUXmFdug&s=19

Where are the Palestinians supposed to go and how are they supposed to get out?

[Uncle Rico]

They certainly fked that up which is surprising.

Netanyahu is a boob

[#UnleashSean]

no excuse!  unprovoked!  disgusting! 

i just hope we have something left to help out israel with.  between Ukraine and the illegal invasions, terrorists and the cartels here, the admin is very poorly prepared for anymore conflict.

Lol. You are actually dumb

[#UnleashSean]

And broke.  We gave all our money to Ukraine.  People forget Russia was our ally in WWII.

You should reread your text books if you think the soviet union was an actual ally.

[forgetful]

That doesn't mean Iran doesn't control the money.

It absolutely does. There are rules for how the money can be used (humanitarian aid only), and it has to be approved.

[#UnleashSean]

The was a coordinated attack essentially from Iran designed to bring the Middle East into total chaos, and it was absolutely gruesome in nature.  Iran 2nd biggest enemy is the United States.  If you think this has no impact on us you're sorely mistaken nor is it really a "religious war".

This is 100% a religious war. Just like every other war Isreal has fought in the middle east.

[#UnleashSean]

If any other country was attacked in this manner the worldwide response would be much different.

The years of suffering from Palestinians probably softens the blows.

[shoothoops]

Shoothoops, I hope you are not waiting for Muggs to reply and admit that he was wrong.  That will be a long wait ...

Tic, toc ... tic, toc ... tic, toc

I am not.

[forgetful]

There is an issue with doing these apples to apples comparisons.  Not excusing war crimes or extra judicial killings when they happen, but when one side is fighting with active military forces and the other is a rebel group with scores of unofficial volunteers, it makes those counts on the Palestinian side pretty grey.  Give a teen or early 20s dude a guy a gun and tell him to shoot at the people he's been taught to hate. But he's not officially a Hamas soldier so he's called a civilian when he's killed.

Careful with your analogies. Hamas is the defacto government of Palestine. Many countries, including Brazil, China, Russia, South Africa, and NATO member Turkey, consider Palestine a State/Country. Which means, to those nations (including Iran who supplies them weapons), Hamas is the Palestinian military force.

Just because we do not recognize them as a nation/state, does not suddenly nullifying them globally as being a military for their nation. They are just another group seeking self-determination, just like the Kurds in Syria (who we arm, and both Syria and Turkey view as terrorists), the KLA (Kosovo/Serbia), and numerous others that we vehemently defended and called the nations they were trying to overthrow as the villains.

And just for the record, I'm not defending any actions. What Hamas did is appalling. But we choose arbitrary lenses to view these types of conflicts and brandish one side as terrorists, or freedom fighters based on what is in our best interests.

[#UnleashSean]

Where and how exactly would Palestinians be able to separate civilians from military with 2 million people in 140 square miles? I don't doubt they absolutely know their strategic actions regarding the matter but let's not pretend like this is a large autonomous country that's just cramming their forces into civilian hubs.

Also, why are teenagers that you're attributing to that civilian number picking up arms and fighting against insurmountable odds? Is it maybe because they've had a boot on their neck their whole lives? As I said more or less above, there's little water and resources to be had anyway so if you have nothing to lose, this is how people are radicalized.

This whole statement means nothing.

The teen still has an AK in his hands attempting to kill Israelites.

[MuggsyB]

AOC has called for a cease-fire so Netanyahu will have to reconsider everything.  LOL. 

[Hidden User]

This whole statement means nothing.

The teen still has an AK in his hands attempting to kill Israelites.

Oh ok my mistake. Population going on a century of nearly sustained violence, death, and famine, only has themselves to blame for their desperation sourced violence. (Obviously goaded and supported by certain opportunists)

I wasn't saying an individual killing civilians is justified. I was remarking on the source of this attack and behavior and how sometimes societal violence comes from a place of desperation none of us can hope to truly understand.

But go ahead and take a read about what happened when they tried to protest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests

[Uncle Rico]

AOC has called for a cease-fire so Netanyahu will have to reconsider everything.  LOL.

Who cares what she says?  Congress can't tie their shoes right now.  What's the speaker say?

[GB Warrior]

This whole statement means nothing.

The teen still has an AK in his hands attempting to kill Israelites.

Maybe if all of the Israelites had guns this would be better

[rocket surgeon]

Lol. You are actually dumb

   AOC?  is that you?  AOC? 

[#UnleashSean]

Oh ok my mistake. Population going on a century of nearly sustained violence, death, and famine, only has themselves to blame for their desperation sourced violence. (Obviously goaded and supported by certain opportunists)

I wasn't saying an individual killing civilians is justified. I was remarking on the source of this attack and behavior and how sometimes societal violence comes from a place of desperation none of us can hope to truly understand.

But go ahead and take a read about what happened when they tried to protest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests

Again, nothing to do with your first statement.

[#UnleashSean]

   AOC?  is that you?  AOC?

I never thought I'd meet someone dumber then AOC. Then you come and post here.

[Hidden User]

Again, nothing to do with your first statement.

I hope your obtuseness is deliberate for your sake.

[jesmu84]

AOC has called for a cease-fire so Netanyahu will have to reconsider everything.  LOL.

I also think the idea of peaceful negotiation is hilarious