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Author Topic: NBA coaching carousel  (Read 4014 times)

brewcity77

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2023, 12:12:43 PM »
But if you want a fresh perspective then you probably don't want someone who has spent her entire coaching career outside of one year on the same bench the guy you just fired spent a bunch of time on.

She had a playing career before that (far more extensive than Bud's) and not everyone that comes from the same bench has the same results. Stan Johnson and Brett Nelson, for instance. Or Shaka Smart and Rob Lanier, on the same staff for Billy Donovan, have had vastly different careers since.

Someone has a crush.  :D

Here's the thing...if you hire Bud or Nurse or Doc or any of the retreads, you know for certain you are not getting the best male coach in the world. I'd take Spoelstra over any of them, Kerr over any, and it's not particularly close.

If you take Hammon, you potentially are getting the best female coach in the world, and until the head coach needs to suit up, that could also mean you are getting the best coach in the world period. Get a retread and there is zero chance you are getting the best possible candidate. Hire Hammon, and you may very well be getting the best.

The only logical reason to not hire her over any of them is misogyny.
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wadesworld

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2023, 12:17:21 PM »
She had a playing career before that (far more extensive than Bud's) and not everyone that comes from the same bench has the same results. Stan Johnson and Brett Nelson, for instance. Or Shaka Smart and Rob Lanier, on the same staff for Billy Donovan, have had vastly different careers since.

Here's the thing...if you hire Bud or Nurse or Doc or any of the retreads, you know for certain you are not getting the best male coach in the world. I'd take Spoelstra over any of them, Kerr over any, and it's not particularly close.

If you take Hammon, you potentially are getting the best female coach in the world, and until the head coach needs to suit up, that could also mean you are getting the best coach in the world period. Get a retread and there is zero chance you are getting the best possible candidate. Hire Hammon, and you may very well be getting the best.

The only logical reason to not hire her over any of them is misogyny.

Yeah, not really.  Nurse and Bud have won titles as head NBA coaches.  Monty has gone to a title as an NBA head coach.  They're all very good coaches who have proven capable of winning NBA titles.  Even Doc has won an NBA title.  You're acting like they're Larry Krystkowiak.

I'd take my chances with her over Doc.  But the other 3 have coached in an NBA Finals within the last half decade.
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4everwarriors

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2023, 12:20:10 PM »
Hammon has zero chance at the Bucks gig, unless you peddle Giannis, Khris, Jrue, and rebuild, hey?
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cheebs09

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2023, 12:24:39 PM »
I am not sure Hammon is the slam dunk you think she is. I thought I read she had a pretty stacked roster for the Aces. Granted, you still have to win the games.

I guess I don’t understand the line of thinking that you can’t hire the best coach in the world if you don’t hire a female. How do we know a random male assistant wouldn’t be better than Pop if hired? How do we know Nurse wouldn’t be the best coach in the world with Giannis?

I doubt it’s related to her coaching, but it looks like she’s in some hot water with the WNBA and their team lost a draft pick.

I would react to Hammon as any other assistant, cautiously optimistic but not thrilled. Nurse seems like the opposite of Bud, which I think this team needs. Someone that’s going to light a fire under them and hold them accountable.

JWags85

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2023, 12:34:07 PM »
I am not sure Hammon is the slam dunk you think she is. I thought I read she had a pretty stacked roster for the Aces. Granted, you still have to win the games.

I guess I don’t understand the line of thinking that you can’t hire the best coach in the world if you don’t hire a female. How do we know a random male assistant wouldn’t be better than Pop if hired? How do we know Nurse wouldn’t be the best coach in the world with Giannis?

I doubt it’s related to her coaching, but it looks like she’s in some hot water with the WNBA and their team lost a draft pick.

I would react to Hammon as any other assistant, cautiously optimistic but not thrilled. Nurse seems like the opposite of Bud, which I think this team needs. Someone that’s going to light a fire under them and hold them accountable.

She took over a team that had made 3 consecutive Conference Finals, had 3 straight 1st overall picks (from 2017-2019) hitting their mid 20s primes, and only opened up cause their coach retired.  She walked into the absolute best coaching situation possible with a juggernaut of a team.  Yes you still have to win, but I don't think it speaks definitively to her coaching acumen. 

I don't know how she's DEFINITELY the best option out there.

lawdog77

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Pakuni

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2023, 12:36:40 PM »
If you take Hammon, you potentially are getting the best female coach in the world, and until the head coach needs to suit up, that could also mean you are getting the best coach in the world period. Get a retread and there is zero chance you are getting the best possible candidate. Hire Hammon, and you may very well be getting the best.

The only logical reason to not hire her over any of them is misogyny.

I think Hammon is an excellent coach who has earned a shot at a head coaching gig. Contrary to some here, I don't believe her being a woman would prohibit her from winning the respect of NBA players. In fact, we already know that to be false.

That said, I'm not sure I get your logic here. That Hammon, because she's the best woman coach out there, is the best or second-best coach in the world, alongside the best male coach?

I'd suggest there are many reasons to hire a guy like Nurse that have nothing to do with misogyny.

pbiflyer

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2023, 12:42:23 PM »
Doc Rivers, Nick Nurse, Monty Williams and Mike Budenholzer have 6 NBA Coach of the Year awards between them.

All have been dismissed this offseason.

Erik Spoelstra has not won one.

brewcity77

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2023, 01:06:42 PM »
Doc Rivers, Nick Nurse, Monty Williams and Mike Budenholzer have 6 NBA Coach of the Year awards between them.

All have been dismissed this offseason.

Erik Spoelstra has not won one.

And I'm sure the Bucks would take Spoelstra in a second, if they could. Feels like the NBA COY is almost a kiss of death. Casey fired the year he won it, since then Bud, Nurse, and Williams have all won it and are all unemployed.
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tower912

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2023, 01:11:22 PM »
Winning championships doesn't matter, either.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2023, 01:14:56 PM »
I actually think an experienced guy like Vogel or Nurse would be just fine. Both have won titles. Both have dealt with veteran laden teams filled with stars. I don't think they would be looking stylistically for something different either.  Not sure I would be thrilled with an unknown assistant at this point, unless they knock the socks off at an interview.
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tower912

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2023, 01:34:04 PM »
An assistant who crushes the powerpoint?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2023, 01:34:55 PM »
An assistant who crushes the powerpoint?

Oooo....good point.
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4everwarriors

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2023, 02:57:51 PM »
How 'bout we get back ta hirin' the most qualified and best person for da job? Any y'all got an issue wit dat premise, hey?
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Pakuni

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2023, 03:02:22 PM »
How 'bout we get back ta hirin' the most qualified and best person for da job? Any y'all got an issue wit dat premise, hey?

As long as it's not a woman.

4everwarriors

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2023, 03:09:12 PM »
She can be blue, black, green, or red. She can be Asian, Muslim, gay, straight or any other letters in the alphabet. I don't give a chit as long as whomever is selected, is deemed to be the most qualified and best candidate by those who are in charge of the selection process.
But, the Bucks are not hiring Hammon. That was Lasry's fiasco the last time and he gowne now, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2023, 03:11:30 PM »
She can be blue, black, green, or red. She can be Asian, Muslim, gay, straight or any other letters in the alphabet. I don't give a chit as long as whomever is selected, is deemed to be the most qualified and best candidate by those who are in charge of the selection process.
But, the Bucks are not hiring Hammon. That was Lasry's fiasco the last time and he gowne now, hey?

Yeah, I don't believe the bolded.
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4everwarriors

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2023, 03:13:02 PM »
Y'all are unreal. No wonder this country is so fooked up, hey?
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2023, 03:20:51 PM »
Y'all are unreal. No wonder this country is so fooked up, hey?

You misunderstand me. I most definitely want them to hire the best candidate.

I highly doubt that you don't care about their gender, race or religion.  I mean, you said this earlier today:

The NBA is a player driven league. Can't see the Bucks ownership trusting a woman to get the most outta #34, #22, etc. Just sayin'.

Even calling Hammon's candidacy a "fiasco" the last time shows your ass - she was the top assistant of a legendary coach. I have zero doubt you wouldn't have labelled it a "fiasco" if she were a man.
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Pakuni

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2023, 03:29:43 PM »
She can be blue, black, green, or red. She can be Asian, Muslim, gay, straight or any other letters in the alphabet. I don't give a chit as long as whomever is selected, is deemed to be the most qualified and best candidate by those who are in charge of the selection process.
But, the Bucks are not hiring Hammon. That was Lasry's fiasco the last time and he gowne now, hey?

You seem very certain that "the most qualified and best candidate" and "woman" are mutually exclusive.

4everwarriors

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2023, 03:32:25 PM »
I don't care about the coach's gender, race, or religion.

What I said is the Bucks, unless they are in a full blown rebuild mode, won't be hiring a female. As for the fiasco comment, what would you call it? It was 5 years ago, Horst was a fairly new GM, and Lasry, aka as a poster boy for liberal America, was running the team. Even with all that, Hammon was more of a publicity stunt rather than a serious candidate. At this time with where the team is and their limited window of championship opportunity, pretty certain their selection of a new coach will be a person who was born a male, aina?
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Uncle Rico

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2023, 03:37:17 PM »
I don't care about the coach's gender, race, or religion.

What I said is the Bucks, unless they are in a full blown rebuild mode, won't be hiring a female. As for the fiasco comment, what would you call it? It was 5 years ago, Horst was a fairly new GM, and Lasry, aka as a poster boy for liberal America, was running the team. Even with all that, Hammon was more of a publicity stunt rather than a serious candidate. At this time with where the team is and their limited window of championship opportunity, pretty certain their selection of a new coach will be a person who was born a male, aina?

None of that is true at all except in your mind.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2023, 03:38:39 PM »
I don't care about the coach's gender, race, or religion.

What I said is the Bucks, unless they are in a full blown rebuild mode, won't be hiring a female. As for the fiasco comment, what would you call it? It was 5 years ago, Horst was a fairly new GM, and Lasry, aka as a poster boy for liberal America, was running the team. Even with all that, Hammon was more of a publicity stunt rather than a serious candidate. At this time with where the team is and their limited window of championship opportunity, pretty certain their selection of a new coach will be a person who was born a male, aina?


Hammon was given an initial interview for the job. Again, she was Pop's assistant and someone who had coached their summer league team. She wasn't given a finalist interview.  Again, I seriously doubt you would label this a fiasco if a candidate with this background was a man.
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cheebs09

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2023, 03:47:52 PM »

Hammon was given an initial interview for the job. Again, she was Pop's assistant and someone who had coached their summer league team. She wasn't given a finalist interview.  Again, I seriously doubt you would label this a fiasco if a candidate with this background was a man.

Is it any different than Chris Quinn’s candidacy? Or even Charles Lee who was an assistant under Bud?

The fiasco was the GM hire because everyone had different finalists, including one guy they brought in to be the heir apparent and landed on Horst as a compromise. That turned out ok just like the last coaching hire.

Uncle Rico

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Re: NBA coaching carousel
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2023, 03:51:33 PM »
Is it any different than Chris Quinn’s candidacy? Or even Charles Lee who was an assistant under Bud?

The fiasco was the GM hire because everyone had different finalists, including one guy they brought in to be the heir apparent and landed on Horst as a compromise. That turned out ok just like the last coaching hire.

Nah, the Bucks screw everything up
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