Thoughts and prayers to Dadeville, Alabama

[Pakuni]

I must have missed the part in the 2nd Amendment where muskets are specifically spelled and called out.

People dishonestly interpret many parts of the Bill of Rights to make it say things it doesn't, specifically the 1st and 2nd Amendements.  There is plenty to talk about in terms of updating the 2nd Amendment in directly addressing gun culture and what civilian vs military looks like now as opposed to in 1776 without being absurdly reductive like that.

Not specific to muskets, but clearly the framers were working within the context of their specific knowledge and experience. It's a very safe to acknowledge that when crafting the 2nd Amendment, a weapon that could fire 83 rounds in less than a minute - as was the case in the Highland Park shooting - was light years beyond their imagination.
Would that have changed how they wrote it? Who knows?
What we do know that that they were wise enough to recognize that future circumstances  would demand changes to the document and created a system allowing for changes.

[4everwarriors]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...its a duck.
As for funding, the U.S. gives away a kazillion dollars to be the world's gate keeper. We have the funds, they are inappropriately allocated.
Protecting our schools, public and private, houses of worships, and large meeting areas with mandated, federally funded armed guards, should be a given for all citizens, hey?

[The Sultan]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...its a duck.
As for funding, the U.S. gives away a kazillion dollars to be the world's gate keeper. We have the funds, they are inappropriately allocated.
Protecting our schools, public and private, houses of worships, and large meeting areas with mandated, federally funded armed guards, should be a given for all citizens, hey?

Not sure how this helps with mental illness....

[ATL MU Warrior]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...its a duck.
As for funding, the U.S. gives away a kazillion dollars to be the world's gate keeper. We have the funds, they are inappropriately allocated.
Protecting our schools, public and private, houses of worships, and large meeting areas with mandated, federally funded armed guards, should be a given for all citizens, hey?

Sounds like a dystopian hellscape/militarized zone where nobody should want to live.  No thanks...no thanks at all.

[shoothoops]

I must have missed the part in the 2nd Amendment where muskets are specifically spelled and called out.

People dishonestly interpret many parts of the Bill of Rights to make it say things it doesn't, specifically the 1st and 2nd Amendements.  There is plenty to talk about in terms of updating the 2nd Amendment in directly addressing gun culture and what civilian vs military looks like now as opposed to in 1776 without being absurdly reductive like that.

There isn't anything reductive about it.

One part was in quotes. That means it's a direct quote when you put something in quotes.

The other part was a popular gun at the time of the 2nd Amendment in the 1700's.

[tower912]

Here's the plan. Quit tolerating abnormal behavior. Call it for what it is. Get help for those with mental illnesses, hey?

Absolutely.   Fund it for schools.  Gun violence leads to mental health issues among children and adolescents.

[Pakuni]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...its a duck.
As for funding, the U.S. gives away a kazillion dollars to be the world's gate keeper. We have the funds, they are inappropriately allocated.
Protecting our schools, public and private, houses of worships, and large meeting areas with mandated, federally funded armed guards, should be a given for all citizens, hey?

Once more, someone needs to point out:
- There was an armed police officer at Parkland High School. 17 dead.
- There were dozens of police and security officers at the Las Vegas concert. 59 dead.
- There was an armed security guard at Tops grocery store in Buffalo. 10 dead.
- There were armed police officers at the Uvalde school before the shooter got inside the building. 22 dead.
- An armed security officer was at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. 49 dead.
- There were armed guards at the Louisville bank last week. Six dead.
- There was an armed police officer at Santa Fe High School in Texas in 2018. 10 dead.
- There as an armed security officer at Oxford High School in Michigan in 2021. Four dead.

Your idea is a proven loser.

[JWags85]

Not specific to muskets, but clearly the framers were working within the context of their specific knowledge and experience. It's a very safe to acknowledge that when crafting the 2nd Amendment, a weapon that could fire 83 rounds in less than a minute - as was the case in the Highland Park shooting - was light years beyond their imagination.
Would that have changed how they wrote it? Who knows?
What we do know that that they were wise enough to recognize that future circumstances  would demand changes to the document and created a system allowing for changes.

Yea I don't disagree with you.  I just think while they clearly didn't write things with the idea of inventions 200+ years in the future in mind, they also didn't write it with a snapshot in time, with no future considerations in mind, hence calling out the circumstances or weapons of the 1770s is overly simplistic.  I just don't like arguments of extremes from either side.  Obviously the idea that a civilian could complete with the military went out the window once we entered the tank and plane era.  I just think pro-gun control/anti-no change to the 2A advocates can do much better than snarky musket/flintlock comments I see all the time.

[shoothoops]

Yea I don't disagree with you.  I just think while they clearly didn't write things with the idea of inventions 200+ years in the future in mind, they also didn't write it with a snapshot in time, with no future considerations in mind, hence calling out the circumstances or weapons of the 1770s is overly simplistic.  I just don't like arguments of extremes from either side.  Obviously the idea that a civilian could complete with the military went out the window once we entered the tank and plane era.  I just think pro-gun control/anti-no change to the 2A advocates can do much better than snarky musket/flintlock comments I see all the time.

Whataboutism. ✅
Both Sides. ✅
Reading things that aren't there. ✅

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Sounds like a dystopian hellscape/militarized zone where nobody should want to live.  No thanks...no thanks at all.

A dystopian hellscape that doesn't work to boot.

[wadesworld]

I've never been to Italy, Chile, etc.  Do they really have armed guards at at all schools, houses of worship, and large meeting areas?  And have zero people who deal with mental health issues?

Big, if true.

Not a gun problem, though.

[Pakuni]

I've never been to Italy, Chile, etc.  Do they really have armed guards at at all schools, houses of worship, and large meeting areas?  And have zero people who deal with mental health issues?

Big, if true.

Not a gun problem, though.

There are so relatively few mass shootings and murders in other Western democracies because they're not as soft on criminals.
Oh, wait ....


The use of long sentences has increased in nations across the globe over the last several decades, but the U.S. remains an outlier in the extent to which it imposes them. Both the average imposed sentence length and the actual amount of time people spend behind bars (time served) are longer in the U.S. when compared with most other countries.

The U.S. imposes longer sentences compared to countries with substantially higher rates of violence. Despite having lower homicide rates than many Latin American and Caribbean (LAC) countries, U.S. states often incarcerate more people and for longer periods of time when compared with Latin American nations.

The U.S. holds a substantial proportion of the world's population of people serving life sentences (40%) as well as the vast majority (83%) of individuals sentenced to Life Without the Possibility of Parole (LWOP)

https://counciloncj.foleon.com/tfls/long-sentences-by-the-numbers/an-international-perspective

[tower912]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-parents-show-increasing-concern-133339395.html
62% want AR-15's banned.


A very similar number with school aged children say that guns are causing their children anxiety.   

[JWags85]

Whataboutism. ✅
Both Sides. ✅
Reading things that aren't there. ✅

There is literally none of that in there.  But keep on being a smug know it all.  You're relentlessly on brand when it comes to that.  I'm sure you read my posts and think I'm some anti-gun control fanatic cause I don't agree with you fully.  You can think people on the same side as you on an issue are being ridiculous about something while still thinking the other side is full of it.

[shoothoops]

There is literally none of that in there.  But keep on being a smug know it all.  You're relentlessly on brand when it comes to that.  I'm sure you read my posts and think I'm some anti-gun control fanatic cause I don't agree with you fully.  You can think people on the same side as you on an issue are being ridiculous about something while still thinking the other side is full of it.

Every time you post, you give yourself away by not staying on the specific topic.

In reply 89, I even used quotes to, wait for it, quote the 2nd amendment. I also pointed out a gun of choice when it was written in the 1700's. Those are called facts.

In reply 95, you incorrectly stated that I misquoted the 2nd Amendment. You also suggested I was dishonestly interpreting the 2nd Amendment.

Pakuni pointed out to you in reply 100, that "the framers were working within the context of their specific knowledge and experience."

In reply 107 you stated that you "just don't like arguments of extremes from either side."

You also said that you believe the 2nd Amendment was written with future considerations in mind. That's reading something that isn't there.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Here's the plan. Quit tolerating abnormal behavior. Call it for what it is. Get help for those with mental illnesses, hey?

Those with mental illness or more likely to be a victim of violence than to commit violence.  Those with a mental illness aren't more likely to commit acts of violence.

I'm curious - does mental illness not exist in other wealthy nations where this level of gun violence does not occur?  And as other have mentioned, your party is often the roadblock stopping funding that would address mental illness. 

I see you also posted about protecting all of these targets with armed guards instead of actually addressing the problem itself, which is the GUN culture, the proliferation of GUNS in this country, lack of federal GUN regulations, and on and on and on.   

I'll share this graph so you can ignore it and come up with more ways to deflect and ignore that the problem is GUNS. 

[JWags85]

Every time you post, you give yourself away by not staying on the specific topic.

In reply 95, you incorrectly stated that I misquoted the 2nd Amendment. You also suggested I was dishonestly interpreting the 2nd Amendment.

I never did either.  You said "The 2nd Amendment is about a "Well Regulated Militia.," and muskets"  And I asked where muskets were in the verbiage of the 2nd Amendment.  I never said you misquoted anything.  I replied to Pakuni and spoke to a greater discussion where people dishonestly interpret any number of Amendments... which is true, in a variety of ways  You naturally took that personally.

In reply 107 you stated that you "just don't like arguments of extremes from either side."

Again, claiming both-siderism is some BS where people try to excuse nasty behavior or stupid arguments of their side by saying everyone does it.  I did nothing like that.  I stated a factual opinion.  I had extremism arguments of all sorts, it cheapens true discussion even from those I agree with in general on a topic.  You just don't like it cause you think one side is 1000% incorrect and nothing those in opposed can say would bother you.

You also said that you believe the 2nd Amendment was written with future considerations in mind. That's reading something that isn't there.

Kind of like saying the 2nd Amendment is "about muskets"?  If I'm reading something that isn't there, then you are too.

[4everwarriors]

So, you're on record as saying if guns were outlawed, criminals would follow the law and mass shootings would no longer be a problem in the U.S., hey?

[wadesworld]

So, you're on record as saying if guns were outlawed, criminals would follow the law and mass shootings would no longer be a problem in the U.S., hey?

Good logic.

Why do we have laws against heroine or cocaine?  Or speeding?  Or driving under the influence?

[The Sultan]

So, you're on record as saying if guns were outlawed, criminals would follow the law and mass shootings would no longer be a problem in the U.S., hey?

Of course not. This is the simplistic, black and white thinking that allows no progress on this issue.

[4everwarriors]

Yeah, those laws are very effective too, aina?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

"Why have laws, guys? Criminals don't follow them".

Never fails.

[wadesworld]

Yeah, those laws are very effective too, aina?

Agreed.  Get rid of them!  Then we can stop funding the police and jails because nothing would be illegal.

[4everwarriors]

Maybe, the common denominator is devious, mentally ill people, hey?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Kid shot for going to the wrong house to pick up his siblings.

Good guys with guns. Sad country.

Shot by an 80-something white guy. No word on where his dental practice is located.