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Author Topic: Nashville school shooting  (Read 10704 times)

Uncle Rico

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2023, 07:03:10 PM »
seems like just yesterday they were crossing their fingers the shooters were Muslim

I don’t particularly care who the shooter is.  I don’t particularly care why.  Why?  Because it’ll be forgotten until the next mass shooting in a few days. 

We’ll discuss the person briefly depending on their political/social leanings.  We’ll discuss mental health like we actually care.  We’ll discuss safety precautions like we care.  We’ll blame guns and then gun free zones and then not enough guns.

I guess, why should I care when no one else cares?  I guess I’ll care when it happens to someone I care about but let’s face facts, nothing will ever be done to stop this.  The faces of crying children on buses aren’t enough to change anything, why would what I care change anything?
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

Plaque Lives Matter!

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2023, 07:11:19 PM »
I don’t particularly care who the shooter is.  I don’t particularly care why.  Why?  Because it’ll be forgotten until the next mass shooting in a few days. 

We’ll discuss the person briefly depending on their political/social leanings.  We’ll discuss mental health like we actually care.  We’ll discuss safety precautions like we care.  We’ll blame guns and then gun free zones and then not enough guns.

I guess, why should I care when no one else cares?  I guess I’ll care when it happens to someone I care about but let’s face facts, nothing will ever be done to stop this.  The faces of crying children on buses aren’t enough to change anything, why would what I care change anything?

Because there was never much chance of meaningful gun legislation being passed post sandy hook. Unlike currently where there are countless anti-trans laws based on junk science and lies being passed.

GB Warrior

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2023, 07:14:43 PM »
Because there was never much chance of meaningful gun legislation being passed post sandy hook. Unlike currently where there are countless anti-trans laws based on junk science and lies being passed.

How dare you criticize my lies

How dare you criticize my hatred of non-cis people

How dare you criticize my religious beliefs

shoothoops

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2023, 07:25:16 PM »
tower

Very sorry for what your family had to experience today. 4ever had his kids and grandkids at the 4th of July parade in Chicago and now your family. The USA, and the world in general, is beyond messed up. It really does break my heart when events like this happen anywhere.

Guns are more of a USA problem than a World problem. In particular it’s an entire political party that cares more about power and money than people’s lives. And that’s both guns and mental health services.

But sure something something the USA is messed up and the World.

wadesworld

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Herman Cain

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2023, 10:06:48 PM »
Family dodged those bullets.
Thank God they are safe.

There was a few tense moments in our family with the MSU shooting earlier this year and when we got the all clear it was a relief .
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WarriorFan

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2023, 10:36:06 PM »
https://www.instagram.com/p/CqTiv20Pr_k/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective.  Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem.  I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people. 
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Plaque Lives Matter!

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2023, 12:03:59 AM »
True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective.  Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem.  I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people.

Well it’s a little more than our elected officials because they are elected.

To quote that onion article they keep getting to repost, “no way of preventing this says only country where this regularly happens.” What else is there to say besides you don’t care about others?

Babybluejeans

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2023, 04:08:46 AM »
True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective.  Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem.  I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people.

It is not limited to legislators. ARs have become a strange and twisted symbol of freedom (?) in some circles. When I travel to certain parts of the country—sorry Arizona—it’s not uncommon to see people wearing “2A” hats, which would be comical to the people who wrote the Second Amendment.

It’s a problem that isn’t going away. 

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2023, 07:38:18 AM »
It is not limited to legislators. ARs have become a strange and twisted symbol of freedom (?) in some circles. When I travel to certain parts of the country—sorry Arizona—it’s not uncommon to see people wearing “2A” hats, which would be comical to the people who wrote the Second Amendment.

It’s a problem that isn’t going away.

In 1994 the assault weapons ban was passed with bipartisan support.

Then Newt Gingrich and 1,500 AM talk radio stations happened.
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Jay Bee

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2023, 08:31:34 AM »
In 1994 the assault weapons ban was passed with bipartisan support.

Then Newt Gingrich and 1,500 AM talk radio stations happened.

And den….

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

Babybluejeans

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2023, 09:00:53 AM »
And den….

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/

Looks like you didn’t bother to read the article. You should, it’s illuminating.

Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”

Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004

MU82

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2023, 09:07:50 AM »
Why do Americans own AR-15s?

From a recent Washington Post/Ipsos poll ...

Compared with Americans as a whole, AR-15 owners are significantly more likely to be White, male and between the ages 40 and 65. They’re also more likely to have higher incomes, to have served in the military and to be Republican. And AR-15 owners are more likely to live in states former president Donald Trump won in 2020 than adults overall.

Self-defense was the most popular reason for owning an AR-15. Other popular answers included recreation, target shooting and hunting, while some pointed to owning an AR-15 as their Second Amendment right.


The latter group, which included 12% of AR-15 owners, stated the reason as: "Second Amendment/It's my right/Because I can."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/american-ar-15-gun-owners/?itid=lk_inline_manual_8

Along with the poll, the Post has published a series of articles on AR-15s. They are sad and they are eye-opening.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Lennys Tap

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2023, 10:20:21 AM »
I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.

But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.

Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2023, 11:01:29 AM »
Looks like you didn’t bother to read the article. You should, it’s illuminating.

Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”

Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004

Indeed. And my point wasn't even about the impact of the particular law, it was that there was  some consensus in the mid-90's that mass shootings were bad and we ought to try to do something about them.

Then Newt unnatural carnal knowledgeing Gingrich decided on all-out scorched earth war wedge issue politics and the right-wing echo chamber quickly convinced the easily fooled mouthbreathers that fearfully clutching their guns was far more important* than being the only country on earth where mass shootings occur nearly daily.

*It wasn't, of course, but fooling the incredibly easy to fool let Gingrich and his ilk amass vast power and money.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 11:04:50 AM by TSmith34, Inc. »
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

lawdog77

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2023, 11:35:13 AM »
I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.

But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.

Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.
Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).

An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.

MU82

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2023, 11:45:55 AM »
Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).

An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.

This. All of this.

I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.

But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.

Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.


I'm heartened that two reasonable people who have some different political views can agree on this important issue, Tony.

There's nothing we can do about the celebrity issue; as you said, America has a warped culture when it comes to that. Not criticizing the previous president, just stating fact, he was 100% a product of our celebrity culture. In some ways, his predecessor was, too.

But the bigger problem on this particular issue, IMHO, is America's gun culture. It is who we are -- we love guns, we won't give them up, any suggestion that we even practice intelligent gun ownership is a sign that "they're trying to take away our guns!" It's effen sad, and it's trumpeted by many celebrities and politicians who, while not pulling the triggers themselves, contribute in their own way to these murders.

And the cries that it's "not a gun issue but a mental health issue" ring especially hollow and hypocritical because the very people who scream it the loudest refuse to provide the funding to treat mental health issues.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

JWags85

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2023, 12:00:07 PM »
I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.

But those super cute purple ones!!!  Its such an appealing accessory (heart eyes)

But the bigger problem on this particular issue, IMHO, is America's gun culture. It is who we are -- we love guns, we won't give them up, any suggestion that we even practice intelligent gun ownership is a sign that "they're trying to take away our guns!" It's effen sad, and it's trumpeted by many celebrities and politicians who, while not pulling the triggers themselves, contribute in their own way to these murders.

Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone.  No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.

I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys".  Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.

Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps.  Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2023, 12:01:07 PM »
But those super cute purple ones!!!  Its such an appealing accessory (heart eyes)

Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone.  No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.

I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys".  Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.

Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps.  Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.

So, Roger Waters.

DegenerateDish

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2023, 12:09:36 PM »
That body cam footage is polarizing, sobering, and intense. Very tough watch, but have to say the Nashville police seemed to handle the situation incredibly well (all things considered). Certainly much better than Uvalde.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 12:41:51 PM by DegenerateDish »

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2023, 12:27:16 PM »
Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).

An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.

I think this is where 80+% of Americans are at.  But the 20% is extremely loud and drowns any reasonableness discussion out.
Anyone who is willing to jump through tight gun regulation hoops is most going to be a very responsible owner.

MU82

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2023, 12:44:16 PM »
Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone.  No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.

I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys".  Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.

Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps.  Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.

Totally agree, Wags, and it's so frustrating. So many times it's tempting to just throw up one's hands and say, "Screw it! It'll never change, so guns for everybody!"

But really, giving up is not an option, so those of us who are reasonable can only just try to slowly chip away. Maybe get some red-flag laws. Maybe get funding for psychologists in schools and on police forces. Maybe enact severe penalties for parents who don't lock up their guns. This is stuff that 60%, 70%, even 80%+ of Americans polled say they support. We need to put pressure on our politicians and, for cripe's sake, at the VERY least, we need to not vote for those who use guns as effen photo ops.

We can't "solve" the problem, but we can work on it, chip away at it, and hold those in power accountable.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2023, 01:04:30 PM »
That body cam footage is polarizing, sobering, and intense. Very tough watch, but have to say the Nashville police seemed to handle the situation incredibly well (all things considered). Certainly much better than Udalve.
Yes.
One thing that I took from the initial pressers 24 hours ago is that Nashville had EMS teams outfitted with riot gear going in as fast as they could be assembled, just like the police did.

Our boy brew can talk more specifics to Milwaukee than I can. (Boy, can he ;D)

In general, there is currently a philosophical change in how these situations are being  handled in areas with the resources to train and respond in adequate numbers.    Previously, in my municipality, we trained that the SRT team from the police side would secure the building and then either bring out the victims or then allow EMS in.   By the time I retired, that had flipped 180.
    Lessons being learned are that time matters.  There isn't time to assemble a strike team.  First arriving officer establishes the meet spot, next in officers arrive, gear up, and go.  Engage the shooter ASAP.   This is what happened in Nashville but not Uvalde.  You can tell Nashville trained for this.
    EMS arrives, dons tactical gear and makes entry quickly to start triage and rapidly remove victims, slapping on tourniquet and bandages as needed.   The big difference is EMS assuming some risk in order to get to and start treating victims faster rather than waiting for the scene to be secure.
    It ultimately did not matter in Nashville from an EMS perspective.   Those shot died.  F AR-15s.     It mattered from a law enforcement minimizing loss perspective.   

God's blessings on the deceased, their families and friends.  Pray for the children who watched their friends get slaughtered.  Thank you to the law enforcement personnel who rushed in.  Thank you to EMS personnel who rushed in.  We don't always get a Hamlin happy ending.  I am sure the law enforcement and EMS community will learn lessons from this.

When will the country?
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2023, 01:44:39 PM »
    Lessons being learned are that time matters.  There isn't time to assemble a strike team.  First arriving officer establishes the meet spot, next in officers arrive, gear up, and go.  Engage the shooter ASAP.   This is what happened in Nashville but not Uvalde.  You can tell Nashville trained for this.
Uvalde trained for it, too. Unfortunately, at the critical moment, they froze.

With the frequency this is happening, other departments will fail in the future, too.

All credit to the Nashville responders.
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MU82

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Re: Nashville school shooting
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2023, 02:02:22 PM »
Survivor of Highland Park gunfire crashes Nashville shooting news conference

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/27/shooting-survivor-nashville-press-conference/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F398b344%2F6423167bf19a510b042865f7%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F13%2F72%2F6423167bf19a510b042865f7&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6

A police spokesman had just finished updating reporters on the mass killing at a Nashville school when Ashbey Beasley suddenly stepped up to the clutch of microphones and asked, “Aren’t you guys tired of covering this?”

She wasn’t an official or a member of law enforcement. She was a mom, she explained, who had grabbed her 6-year-old son and run months earlier when a gunman opened fire at a parade in Highland Park, Ill. Some TV stations cut away. Others continued rolling as Beasley, speaking quickly and forcefully, decried America’s epidemic of gun violence. She asked, “How is this still happening? How are our children still dying?”

“I just was like, ‘I have to say something,’ ” Beasley, 47, said in an interview with The Washington Post soon after. “Because I just feel like, how many more?”
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

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