MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2023, 01:27:35 PM
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65092102
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Do you think any other developed countries are having to have their 4-12 year old students practice how to react if someone comes into your school and starts using assault rifles to mow people down? My god that is tragic. I can't even imagine being a teacher or administrator trying to train their kids, "Hey kids, we're going to practice what we need to do when you start hearing gunshots ring out?" Or having to answer some 5 year old asking, "Why are we practicing locking the classroom door and hiding in closets?"
But the reality is every single classroom in this country absolutely needs to practice this. Absolutely awful.
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As long as the NRA whores in Congress demand their money, nothing will change.
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I am going to step out, as my wife's favorite cousin has children at that school. And the cousin has not posted an all clear yet.
Kudo's to the police officers and firefighters/paramedics on their rapid and effective response.
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It seems bad that my first reaction was “oh that’s an unusual demographic for a shooter”
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At least those kids aren’t being taught about racism in American history
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I am going to step out, as my wife's favorite cousin has children at that school. And the cousin has not posted an all clear yet.
Kudo's to the police officers and firefighters/paramedics on their rapid and effective response.
Hope everything's okay for your family. That's scary stuff.
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https://twitter.com/hollybdc/status/1640420274104602624?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
The picture of American freedom
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As long as the NRA whores in Congress demand their money, nothing will change.
As long as the feeble-minded mouthbreathers who have been willingly conned into this being a wedge issue continue voting for the NRA whores in Congress, nothing will change.
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This was the Christmas photo of the Congressional representative of that geography:
https://twitter.com/jackstelzner/status/1640398101658714131?s=46&t=NySlkx-M0Te8hxrt48JOzw
Senator Blackburn is a 7 figure $ recipient from the NRA.
……………….
Green Hills, 2 miles to Belle Meade, less than 5 miles South of Vanderbilt University. About a mile from The Bluebird Cafe. Been in that area many times. Sad.
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This was the Christmas photo of the Congressional representative of that geography:
https://twitter.com/jackstelzner/status/1640398101658714131?s=46&t=NySlkx-M0Te8hxrt48JOzw
Senator Blackburn is a 7 figure $ recipient from the NRA.
……………….
Green Hills, 2 miles to Belle Meade, less than 5 miles South of Vanderbilt University. About a mile from The Bluebird Cafe. Been in that area many times. Sad.
Unserious people
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https://twitter.com/lorellyan1900/status/1640408622319452170?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
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Do you think any other developed countries are having to have their 4-12 year old students practice how to react if someone comes into your school and starts using assault rifles to mow people down? My god that is tragic. I can't even imagine being a teacher or administrator trying to train their kids, "Hey kids, we're going to practice what we need to do when you start hearing gunshots ring out?" Or having to answer some 5 year old asking, "Why are we practicing locking the classroom door and hiding in closets?"
But the reality is every single classroom in this country absolutely needs to practice this. Absolutely awful.
The framers for sure had assault rifles in mind when they wrote the confusing passage about militias.
Anyway, guns schmuns. What's really important is that we protect our kids from books, LGBTQ people and photos of the David sculpture.
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Family dodged those bullets.
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Family dodged those bullets.
Glad to hear it. Hope they're okay mentally as well.
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My distant relatives are 10 years old and 8 year old twins. I won't speculate on their emotional state.
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tower
Very sorry for what your family had to experience today. 4ever had his kids and grandkids at the 4th of July parade in Chicago and now your family. The USA, and the world in general, is beyond messed up. It really does break my heart when events like this happen anywhere.
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It seems bad that my first reaction was “oh that’s an unusual demographic for a shooter”
Seems reasonable.
Was this a biological man who identified as a woman? Or a woman identifying as a man?
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Seems reasonable.
Was this a biological man who identified as a woman? Or a woman identifying as a man?
Born Audrey Elizabeth. Pronouns he/him
Something for everybody.
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Wonder if on hormones. Could “explain” a female mass school shooter… exceedingly rare.
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Seems reasonable.
Was this a biological man who identified as a woman? Or a woman identifying as a man?
You are a sick f**k.
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Really getting to the root of the issue at hand there JB. Real good stuff
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It is going to be part of the discussion. Prepare your arguments.
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It is going to be part of the discussion. Prepare your arguments.
It’s good to have something other than rock music or video games to blame
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It’s good to have something other than rock music or video games to blame
seems like just yesterday they were crossing their fingers the shooters were Muslim
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seems like just yesterday they were crossing their fingers the shooters were Muslim
I don’t particularly care who the shooter is. I don’t particularly care why. Why? Because it’ll be forgotten until the next mass shooting in a few days.
We’ll discuss the person briefly depending on their political/social leanings. We’ll discuss mental health like we actually care. We’ll discuss safety precautions like we care. We’ll blame guns and then gun free zones and then not enough guns.
I guess, why should I care when no one else cares? I guess I’ll care when it happens to someone I care about but let’s face facts, nothing will ever be done to stop this. The faces of crying children on buses aren’t enough to change anything, why would what I care change anything?
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I don’t particularly care who the shooter is. I don’t particularly care why. Why? Because it’ll be forgotten until the next mass shooting in a few days.
We’ll discuss the person briefly depending on their political/social leanings. We’ll discuss mental health like we actually care. We’ll discuss safety precautions like we care. We’ll blame guns and then gun free zones and then not enough guns.
I guess, why should I care when no one else cares? I guess I’ll care when it happens to someone I care about but let’s face facts, nothing will ever be done to stop this. The faces of crying children on buses aren’t enough to change anything, why would what I care change anything?
Because there was never much chance of meaningful gun legislation being passed post sandy hook. Unlike currently where there are countless anti-trans laws based on junk science and lies being passed.
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Because there was never much chance of meaningful gun legislation being passed post sandy hook. Unlike currently where there are countless anti-trans laws based on junk science and lies being passed.
How dare you criticize my lies
How dare you criticize my hatred of non-cis people
How dare you criticize my religious beliefs
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tower
Very sorry for what your family had to experience today. 4ever had his kids and grandkids at the 4th of July parade in Chicago and now your family. The USA, and the world in general, is beyond messed up. It really does break my heart when events like this happen anywhere.
Guns are more of a USA problem than a World problem. In particular it’s an entire political party that cares more about power and money than people’s lives. And that’s both guns and mental health services.
But sure something something the USA is messed up and the World.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CqTiv20Pr_k/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Family dodged those bullets.
Thank God they are safe.
There was a few tense moments in our family with the MSU shooting earlier this year and when we got the all clear it was a relief .
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CqTiv20Pr_k/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective. Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem. I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people.
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True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective. Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem. I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people.
Well it’s a little more than our elected officials because they are elected.
To quote that onion article they keep getting to repost, “no way of preventing this says only country where this regularly happens.” What else is there to say besides you don’t care about others?
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True - and the Aussies fixed it too.
As someone who has lived outside the US for a long time, I can say it is one of the least understandable parts of American society from a global perspective. Most non- Americans just think we're idiots who can't solve a simple problem. I always try to explain that it's only our elected officials who are idiots, but the rest of society actually has some decent people.
It is not limited to legislators. ARs have become a strange and twisted symbol of freedom (?) in some circles. When I travel to certain parts of the country—sorry Arizona—it’s not uncommon to see people wearing “2A” hats, which would be comical to the people who wrote the Second Amendment.
It’s a problem that isn’t going away.
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It is not limited to legislators. ARs have become a strange and twisted symbol of freedom (?) in some circles. When I travel to certain parts of the country—sorry Arizona—it’s not uncommon to see people wearing “2A” hats, which would be comical to the people who wrote the Second Amendment.
It’s a problem that isn’t going away.
In 1994 the assault weapons ban was passed with bipartisan support.
Then Newt Gingrich and 1,500 AM talk radio stations happened.
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In 1994 the assault weapons ban was passed with bipartisan support.
Then Newt Gingrich and 1,500 AM talk radio stations happened.
And den….
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/
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And den….
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/
Looks like you didn’t bother to read the article. You should, it’s illuminating.
Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”
Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004
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Why do Americans own AR-15s?
From a recent Washington Post/Ipsos poll ...
Compared with Americans as a whole, AR-15 owners are significantly more likely to be White, male and between the ages 40 and 65. They’re also more likely to have higher incomes, to have served in the military and to be Republican. And AR-15 owners are more likely to live in states former president Donald Trump won in 2020 than adults overall.
Self-defense was the most popular reason for owning an AR-15. Other popular answers included recreation, target shooting and hunting, while some pointed to owning an AR-15 as their Second Amendment right.
The latter group, which included 12% of AR-15 owners, stated the reason as: "Second Amendment/It's my right/Because I can."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/american-ar-15-gun-owners/?itid=lk_inline_manual_8
Along with the poll, the Post has published a series of articles on AR-15s. They are sad and they are eye-opening.
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I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.
But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.
Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.
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Looks like you didn’t bother to read the article. You should, it’s illuminating.
Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”
Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004
Indeed. And my point wasn't even about the impact of the particular law, it was that there was some consensus in the mid-90's that mass shootings were bad and we ought to try to do something about them.
Then Newt unnatural carnal knowledgeing Gingrich decided on all-out scorched earth war wedge issue politics and the right-wing echo chamber quickly convinced the easily fooled mouthbreathers that fearfully clutching their guns was far more important* than being the only country on earth where mass shootings occur nearly daily.
*It wasn't, of course, but fooling the incredibly easy to fool let Gingrich and his ilk amass vast power and money.
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I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.
But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.
Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.
Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).
An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.
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Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).
An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.
This. All of this.
I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
Common sense says that their elimination would save lives. I’m all in.
But the existence of AR-15s or guns in general isn’t the reason why these killings happen so frequently. Neither is mental illness. These have been around forever.
Sad to say, but as long as our culture worships celebrity above all and as long as we make celebrities of these mass murderers the pool of mentally unstable ticking time bombs will be huge. I have no idea how we put this genie back in the bottle. Maybe if we stop giving celebrity status to deranged murderers it would help.
I'm heartened that two reasonable people who have some different political views can agree on this important issue, Tony.
There's nothing we can do about the celebrity issue; as you said, America has a warped culture when it comes to that. Not criticizing the previous president, just stating fact, he was 100% a product of our celebrity culture. In some ways, his predecessor was, too.
But the bigger problem on this particular issue, IMHO, is America's gun culture. It is who we are -- we love guns, we won't give them up, any suggestion that we even practice intelligent gun ownership is a sign that "they're trying to take away our guns!" It's effen sad, and it's trumpeted by many celebrities and politicians who, while not pulling the triggers themselves, contribute in their own way to these murders.
And the cries that it's "not a gun issue but a mental health issue" ring especially hollow and hypocritical because the very people who scream it the loudest refuse to provide the funding to treat mental health issues.
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I don’t why anyone needs to own an AR-15 in this country.
But those super cute purple ones!!! Its such an appealing accessory (heart eyes)
But the bigger problem on this particular issue, IMHO, is America's gun culture. It is who we are -- we love guns, we won't give them up, any suggestion that we even practice intelligent gun ownership is a sign that "they're trying to take away our guns!" It's effen sad, and it's trumpeted by many celebrities and politicians who, while not pulling the triggers themselves, contribute in their own way to these murders.
Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone. No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.
I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys". Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.
Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps. Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.
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But those super cute purple ones!!! Its such an appealing accessory (heart eyes)
Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone. No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.
I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys". Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.
Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps. Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.
So, Roger Waters.
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That body cam footage is polarizing, sobering, and intense. Very tough watch, but have to say the Nashville police seemed to handle the situation incredibly well (all things considered). Certainly much better than Uvalde.
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Its not an either or. There are many nuances. Why not eliminate as many variables as possible, though. Ban Assault rifles (or whatever people want to call them), better background checks/red flag laws, enforce them, as well as having a registry of the guns (chain of custody for sales).
An aside on the last note, I don't understand why many gun owners push back on letting the government know what guns they own. The government already knows way more than you think about you.
I think this is where 80+% of Americans are at. But the 20% is extremely loud and drowns any reasonableness discussion out.
Anyone who is willing to jump through tight gun regulation hoops is most going to be a very responsible owner.
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Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone. No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.
I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys". Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.
Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps. Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.
Totally agree, Wags, and it's so frustrating. So many times it's tempting to just throw up one's hands and say, "Screw it! It'll never change, so guns for everybody!"
But really, giving up is not an option, so those of us who are reasonable can only just try to slowly chip away. Maybe get some red-flag laws. Maybe get funding for psychologists in schools and on police forces. Maybe enact severe penalties for parents who don't lock up their guns. This is stuff that 60%, 70%, even 80%+ of Americans polled say they support. We need to put pressure on our politicians and, for cripe's sake, at the VERY least, we need to not vote for those who use guns as effen photo ops.
We can't "solve" the problem, but we can work on it, chip away at it, and hold those in power accountable.
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That body cam footage is polarizing, sobering, and intense. Very tough watch, but have to say the Nashville police seemed to handle the situation incredibly well (all things considered). Certainly much better than Udalve.
Yes.
One thing that I took from the initial pressers 24 hours ago is that Nashville had EMS teams outfitted with riot gear going in as fast as they could be assembled, just like the police did.
Our boy brew can talk more specifics to Milwaukee than I can. (Boy, can he ;D)
In general, there is currently a philosophical change in how these situations are being handled in areas with the resources to train and respond in adequate numbers. Previously, in my municipality, we trained that the SRT team from the police side would secure the building and then either bring out the victims or then allow EMS in. By the time I retired, that had flipped 180.
Lessons being learned are that time matters. There isn't time to assemble a strike team. First arriving officer establishes the meet spot, next in officers arrive, gear up, and go. Engage the shooter ASAP. This is what happened in Nashville but not Uvalde. You can tell Nashville trained for this.
EMS arrives, dons tactical gear and makes entry quickly to start triage and rapidly remove victims, slapping on tourniquet and bandages as needed. The big difference is EMS assuming some risk in order to get to and start treating victims faster rather than waiting for the scene to be secure.
It ultimately did not matter in Nashville from an EMS perspective. Those shot died. F AR-15s. It mattered from a law enforcement minimizing loss perspective.
God's blessings on the deceased, their families and friends. Pray for the children who watched their friends get slaughtered. Thank you to the law enforcement personnel who rushed in. Thank you to EMS personnel who rushed in. We don't always get a Hamlin happy ending. I am sure the law enforcement and EMS community will learn lessons from this.
When will the country?
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Lessons being learned are that time matters. There isn't time to assemble a strike team. First arriving officer establishes the meet spot, next in officers arrive, gear up, and go. Engage the shooter ASAP. This is what happened in Nashville but not Uvalde. You can tell Nashville trained for this.
Uvalde trained for it, too. Unfortunately, at the critical moment, they froze.
With the frequency this is happening, other departments will fail in the future, too.
All credit to the Nashville responders.
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Survivor of Highland Park gunfire crashes Nashville shooting news conference
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/27/shooting-survivor-nashville-press-conference/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F398b344%2F6423167bf19a510b042865f7%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F13%2F72%2F6423167bf19a510b042865f7&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6
A police spokesman had just finished updating reporters on the mass killing at a Nashville school when Ashbey Beasley suddenly stepped up to the clutch of microphones and asked, “Aren’t you guys tired of covering this?”
She wasn’t an official or a member of law enforcement. She was a mom, she explained, who had grabbed her 6-year-old son and run months earlier when a gunman opened fire at a parade in Highland Park, Ill. Some TV stations cut away. Others continued rolling as Beasley, speaking quickly and forcefully, decried America’s epidemic of gun violence. She asked, “How is this still happening? How are our children still dying?”
“I just was like, ‘I have to say something,’ ” Beasley, 47, said in an interview with The Washington Post soon after. “Because I just feel like, how many more?”
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It is all so incredibly depressing. More kids die from guns than car accidents. I have to buy new car seats multiple times for hundreds of dollars before my kids turn 7.
Why do we have no protections from the leading cause of death?
Every time this happens I have to examine whether I am doing enough to protect my kids. And I feel so completely helpless. I have two options: Do nothing or move to Canada.
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Lady was under care for psych issues. Parents believed she should not have weapons. She goes out the door with a big bag of guns, so they ask what’s up with the bag? “Oh nothing”. “Oh ok”
Smh
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Red line is when the assault rifle ban ended.
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Red line is when the assault rifle ban ended.
That’s also when video games started
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Red line is when the assault rifle ban ended.
Why are you showing mass killings not involving assault rifles, then, crazy town?
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Why are you showing mass killings not involving assault rifles, then, crazy town?
Because assault rifles make it easier to create mass shootings. A nice, simple visual for people like you who have a hard time comprehending this.
Unless you think that's just a coincidence...
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Because assault rifles make it easier to create mass shootings. A nice, simple visual for people like you who have a hard time comprehending this.
Unless you think that's just a coincidence...
I think there are a lot of things in play, including in this specific occurrence.
Your visual isn’t “nice, simple”, it’s dumb, shortsighted and misleading.
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Why are you showing mass killings not involving assault rifles, then, crazy town?
AR15 stands for assault rifle.
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The inordinate amount of gun violence in the United States isn’t the amount of guns.
It’s Slayer, Super Mario Bros, lack of doors, lack of more guns, mental health problems no other countries have and probably drag shows
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The inordinate amount of gun violence in the United States isn’t the amount of guns.
It’s Slayer, Super Mario Bros, lack of doors, lack of more guns, mental health problems no other countries have and probably drag shows
You forgot CRT and people identifying as cats. Oh, and still more guns.
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AR15 stands for assault rifle.
Maybe everything for some people is fluid… gender… why not assault rifles? Maybe a knife can be an assault rifle, if a Christian man uses it in a murder
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I think there are a lot of things in play, including in this specific occurrence.
Your visual isn’t “nice, simple”, it’s dumb, shortsighted and misleading.
So "just a coincidence." Got it.
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You forgot CRT and people identifying as cats. Oh, and still more guns.
That’s true. CRT and gender identification are two of the largest problems America faces today.
More kids die from being taught CRT and about racism in American history than being mowed down by bullets in a classroom.
That kid crying on the bus yesterday? Her teacher told her about slavery. That teacher is the real monster
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Maybe everything for some people is fluid… gender… why not assault rifles? Maybe a knife can be an assault rifle, if a Christian man uses it in a murder
Yes, the tragedy here is that christian men are under assault. Particularly extreme homophobe christian men.
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So "just a coincidence." Got it.
Now do the graph with online media. Just a coincidence?
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Now do the graph with online media. Just a coincidence?
Yes, online media. That’s better than Megadeath
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It’s easy math. Seriously. If there are more cars, there are more car accidents. If everyone in the US had more marbles, more people would get hurt slipping on marbles. If it were easier for 10 year olds to get cigarettes, more 10 year olds would smoke. The more convenient and plentiful guns are, the more shootings. The more shootings, the more kids get killed. Gun nuts DO NOT CARE. PERIOD.
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It’s easy math. Seriously. If there are more cars, there are more car accidents. If everyone in the US had more marbles, more people would get hurt slipping on marbles. If it were easier for 10 year olds to get cigarettes, more 10 year olds would smoke. The more convenient and plentiful guns are, the more shootings. The more shootings, the more kids get killed. Gun nuts DO NOT CARE. PERIOD.
I hate responding in this thread but it triggered something from my past. Can you imagine the consequences if the Smokers Rights people won from the 80s/90s? It’s not completely unrelated.
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But those super cute purple ones!!! Its such an appealing accessory (heart eyes)
Ive mentioned it before, but I think the founding of America and the aspect of how guns played into that create an entirely unique (and entirely problematic) cultural touchstone. No other world power was founded entirely by an armed uprising by citizens against the largest world power and added a foundational piece of their constitution protecting the right to defend the ability to do so.
I'm not defending the mentality, I'm not defending the absurdly staunch dug in heel unwillingness to adapt or modernize the 2A, I'm not even elevating it as some American exceptionalism, I just think that foundational fact, culturally, has a big piece to play beyond just "America is the only place this happens cause Americans are selfish pretty boys". Generations were brought up on this mythos, which isn't even untrue, but which was held to a standard such broad love and respect that the thought of nuance and tweaking seemed untenable.
Its something that is truly great, incredible, and admirable about the US that has degraded into something that harms far more than it helps. Its like the musical artist that was incredible and transformative in their early years that has become an ornery hack sh**ing all over other musical artists, being a generally awful person, and making terrible music of their own, but gets defended or still adored by legions cause of the songs they made 40 years before.
Thank you for articulating this so well
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I think there are a lot of things in play, including in this specific occurrence.
Your visual isn’t “nice, simple”, it’s dumb, shortsighted and misleading.
Absolutely correct
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It is all so incredibly depressing. More kids die from guns than car accidents. I have to buy new car seats multiple times for hundreds of dollars before my kids turn 7.
Why do we have no protections from the leading cause of death?
According to latest data posted by the CDC, motor vehicles are far and away the leading cause of death for ages 1-17.
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Remind me again why any civilian should be able to own a weapon of war.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-damage-to-human-body/
You don’t need an AR15 or similar weapon to hunt or for self-defense. The “protect against tyranny” argument is laughable.
At least the GOP didn’t blame doors this time.
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According to latest data posted by the CDC, motor vehicles are far and away the leading cause of death for ages 1-17.
Where’s your link? I have some.
https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/press-release/firearms-are-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-in-the-united-states-but-rank-no-higher-than-fifth-in-other-industrialized-nations/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html
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Remind me again why any civilian should be able to own a weapon of war.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-damage-to-human-body/
You don’t need an AR15 or similar weapon to hunt or for self-defense. The “protect against tyranny” argument is laughable.
At least the GOP didn’t blame doors this time.
Actually....
Josephine Harvey
Mon, March 27, 2023 at 9:39 PM CDT·4 min read
A Fox News segment went viral on Monday after a guest on the conservative network pointed out a pattern in school shootings.
Her concern wasn’t the common denominator in all shootings ― access to guns ― but rather unlocked doors.
“That seems to be a common pattern in many of these shootings, a side door. If we can lock the side doors and make sure that the schools are secure, hopefully we can avoid these tragedies going forward,” former FBI agent Nicole Parker said as she discussed a shooting Monday at The Covenant School in Nashville that left three children and three adults dead.
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According to latest data posted by the CDC, motor vehicles are far and away the leading cause of death for ages 1-17.
Death by firearms, overtook death by auto, for kids, in 2020.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children
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Most advanced country in the world…
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Most advanced country in the world…
Alright. Alright. Alright. We're winning in a blowout.
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It is all so incredibly depressing. More kids die from guns than car accidents. I have to buy new car seats multiple times for hundreds of dollars before my kids turn 7.
Why do we have no protections from the leading cause of death?
You're really asking? We ALL know why.
One party glorifies guns and everything about them. The same party fights against any common sense gun legislation to help fix the problem.
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Where’s your link? I have some.
https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/press-release/firearms-are-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-in-the-united-states-but-rank-no-higher-than-fifth-in-other-industrialized-nations/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html
Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
Talk about being honest with data. "If we group all of these totally separate things together into one grouping I just arbitrarily decided to make up, combined they are the largest single cause of death!" SMH
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
Those are incredible deflections. I’m glad someone finally brought up Chicago. I’m glad you’re concerned about what’s happening there. I agree it’s a problem. We need to work hard to help ease poverty and income disparity. A focus on education and helping our fellow man seems like a good start.
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Those are incredible deflections. I’m glad someone finally brought up Chicago. I’m glad you’re concerned about what’s happening there. I agree it’s a problem. We need to work hard to help ease poverty and income disparity. A focus on education and helping our fellow man seems like a good start.
Why? Isn’t it just about the guns?!
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Why? Isn’t it just about the guns?!
The number of guns in this country and the availability of guns in this country are a massive problem. I’m not dumb. None of these things will be addressed, but I’m quite confident more guns will be readily available for more mass shootings, guns that have no business being sold.
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Those are incredible deflections. I’m glad someone finally brought up Chicago. I’m glad you’re concerned about what’s happening there. I agree it’s a problem. We need to work hard to help ease poverty and income disparity. A focus on education and helping our fellow man seems like a good start.
Legislators have no time to deal with that stuff. Too busy dealing with NRA lobbyists, making laws to get LGBTQ people to kill themselves, climbing into women's reproductive systems, and searching for reverse racism.
Meanwhile, schools can't afford to hire the psychologists desperately needed to deal with the "mental health issues" that some always blame for mass shootings. The latest thing sapping their budgets: public record requests from the Orwelian book-banning crowd.
From the Washington Post:
One Virginia school district added half a million dollars to its budget just to process public records requests. In the span of 90 days this school year, an Arkansas district received 100 such requests that cost nearly $20,000 and 400 hours of staff labor to fill.
And in Minnesota’s Owatonna Public Schools, the 61-year-old director of human resources is still plowing her way through a request from the citizens’ group United Patriots for Accountability, which in summer 2021 sought all school communications and records that mentioned 19 phrases including “Black Lives Matter,” “institutional racism” and “Whiteness.” That request has already consumed $165,000 of the district’s money and, director of human resources Chris Picha estimates, 2,200 hours of staff time, much of it drawn from her own weekends and holidays. She has generated approximately 170,000 pages of records and guesses it will take another year to complete the request.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/03/27/school-district-foia-records-request/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F398d668%2F64241958f19a510b0429e597%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F36%2F59%2F64241958f19a510b0429e597&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6
Time and money well spent! Can't have the kids reading anything that suggests slavery existed.
What more do they need but manuals on how to buy and care for their firearms?
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^^^ no wonder there are so many shootings in Owatanna, Mn!
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Why? Isn’t it just about the guns?!
To borrow from an award winning movie, it is everything everywhere all at once.
It is poverty.
It is lack of education and opportunities.
It is mental health.
It is lack of development of more appropriate coping mechanisms, which ties into all of the above.
It is the guns. It is the gun cult that has developed.
The common thread is that someone is angry and decides that a gun inflicting pain and death on others is the solution to their pain.
Fix it all, JB.
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
Nothing like pointing out that some of the statistics are young black people dying so that you can discount the value of young deaths.
Fact 1- a lot of young people die from guns. More than car accidents even.
Opinion 1- that is terrible and it needs to be addressed immediately!
Fact 2- the US has a zillion guns
Opinion 2- that’s way too many guns, we should have less guns!
Counterpoint 1- well, that data includes black people deaths, you are lying with the data as they don’t count!
Also, TRANS people! And stop asking fir women to control their body!
————————-/———————————
Geez, that is some solid rationale right there
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/af/cd/1UEkcIkM_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/1UEkcIkM)
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
Hooray?
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Actually....
Josephine Harvey
Mon, March 27, 2023 at 9:39 PM CDT·4 min read
A Fox News segment went viral on Monday after a guest on the conservative network pointed out a pattern in school shootings.
Her concern wasn’t the common denominator in all shootings ― access to guns ― but rather unlocked doors.
“That seems to be a common pattern in many of these shootings, a side door. If we can lock the side doors and make sure that the schools are secure, hopefully we can avoid these tragedies going forward,” former FBI agent Nicole Parker said as she discussed a shooting Monday at The Covenant School in Nashville that left three children and three adults dead.
There it is.
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^^^ no wonder there are so many shootings in Owatanna, Mn!
You think Owatonna is invincible? It can happen in any town of any size anywhere in the country.
I sure hope Owatonna never has to face it. A week ago, nobody involved in that little school in Nashville expected to have to face it, either. Nobody in Sandy Hook, Parkland, Uvalde or Columbine thought they'd have to face it. Nobody who went to the Highland Park parade thought it would happen. None of the people at that Vegas show thought it would happen.
They were all mental-health issues, anyway. Nothing anybody coulda done about any of 'em.
But let's have a cash-strapped school district spend $165K (and counting) on bogus records requests rather than 2 psychologists for the district. And let's have a shorthanded school district designate 2,200 hours (and counting) sifting through the BS.
Then, if there is a shooting in the district, you can shrug and say nothing could have been done because it's a mental-health issue, not a gun issue.
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
No one is avoiding Chicago. It’s not an either/or. You are giving yourself away here. It’s okay to discuss both. The common denominator is guns.
https://www.thetrace.org/2022/04/chicago-gun-stores-atf-trace-report-inspection/
https://everytownlaw.org/press/city-of-chicago-sues-indiana-gun-store-tied-to-more-than-850-crime-guns-recovered-in-chicago/
No one is saying that car accidents are not important.
Did you know that car deaths for children under 13 decreased 85% since 1975?
We have installed these things called laws and safety improvements.
https://seriousaccidents.com/blog/children-traffic-fatalities-by-year/
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Why can’t we be honest with the facts? Smh. Your first link is data for “children” age 1 through ***19***? Why would you go past 17? Because the data changes significantly when you add in young adults. Pathetic.
Per CDC data, in 2020, firearms led car accidents for 17 & younger by only about 5%
The combo of suffocation, poisoning & drownings eclipsed firearms easily. Why are we not talking about these more?
Why don’t some of you blowhards make weekly topics about all the children who are shot in Chicago with great regularity?
Figure out what an assault rifle is, figure out what a child is, figure out what a woman and a man are, and then let’s talk.
The only pathetic things here are you and your response.
Imagine being the kind of person who's upset that he has to try to prove the firearms aren't the leading cause of death in children. The deflections and "logic" you use in your response would be laughable if they weren't so sad, embarrassing and stupid.
I know what a man is and you don't qualify.
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Another thing we need to do is use laws on the books to punish perps. A lot of shooters should not be out on the streets.
Per the CDC, in 2020, for children 14 and under (~prior to high school), deaths include:
Suffocation
Motor Vehicle (69% of Suffocation)
Firearm (45% of Suffocation)
Drowning (42% of Suffocation)
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Another thing we need to do is use laws on the books to punish perps. A lot of shooters should not be out on the streets.
Per the CDC, in 2020, for children 14 and under (~prior to high school), deaths include:
Suffocation
Motor Vehicle (69% of Suffocation)
Firearm (45% of Suffocation)
Drowning (42% of Suffocation)
We should probably ban cars, baths, rivers, lakes, and oceans, huh?
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Agreed, as far as repeat offenders.
Now, fund more prisons and let them build one in your town.
And, as Jesus tells you, visit the prisoners.
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How the U.S. is doing vs its peers:
https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/
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Not only do outlets like to include young adults, but usually conveniently exclude children under 1. Why? The data doesn’t “help” them.
Per the CDC in 2020, suffocation caused 1,087 deaths of those under 1. Vehicle ma…72… poisoning… 67.
Firearms 11
And of course, as a % of a the population, takes down the figures
Wish this was all as simple as “banning automatic weapons”, but it’s not
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Not only do outlets like to include young adults, but usually conveniently exclude children under 1. Why? The data doesn’t “help” them.
Per the CDC in 2020, suffocation caused 1,087 deaths of those under 1. Vehicle ma…72… poisoning… 67.
Firearms 11
And of course, as a % of a the population, takes down the figures
Wish this was all as simple as “banning automatic weapons”, but it’s not
Not many are saying that's the magic pill. It's a start.
Name one good reason why an individual needs an automatic weapon.
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Not many are saying that's the magic pill. It's a start.
Name one good reason why an individual needs an automatic weapon.
Who is using automatic weapons when killing kids?
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Who is using automatic weapons when killing kids?
They don't even know what an automatic weapon is.
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Who is using automatic weapons when killing kids?
OK SemiAutomatic weapons or assault weapons. Tomato/tomahto.
Who needs a semiautomatic weapon?
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/assault-weapons/ (https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/assault-weapons/)
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You can slice and carve the data a million ways, some which help distill useful insights and others that are just semantics. IMO, the most useful way to break things down is probably something along the lines of 0-4 years old, 5-14 years old, 15-18 years old. Those would be the groups I would see having the most in common in terms of autonomy, risk factors, etc. When it comes to mortality risk, grouping "children" together as everyone under 18 is a pretty useless term. You are going to have choking and co-sleeping being among the highest risk factors for infants and toddlers, whereas that's pretty much phased out by the time a child is school aged.
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They don't even know what an automatic weapon is.
To be clear, who is the “they” here? The people who actually care about decreasing school age children gun deaths?
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BeeJay's convinced me. Because news outlets will exclude certain ages because it makes guns #2 on the list of causes of death in children, we don't have a problem in this country!
Thank god these weapons are only semi automatic! Everyone should have one of those!
Things that I have learned are unique to the United States and cannot be found in other developing countries: Poverty, lack of education, mental health, etc. It's not the guns that are the difference between the USA and the rest of the developed world. It's those issues! Won't find them elsewhere.
For a guy who likes to pretend he's "hard" (teeing him up for his dope 6th grade joke here) and likes facts, corrects everyone else, etc. it's pretty funny to see him trying to convince people firearms aren't an issue if you just add up a bunch of different ways children die nowadays and those many different ways surpass death by firearm.
If he still hoped that people here would view him as some statistical savant, he probably should've sat this one out. Definitely outed himself.
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How many kids have to die before we care?
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Here is an article from the Fort Myers newspaper filled with information about AR-15s:
+++
Days after his 18th birthday a man bought two AR-15 rifles and used one to kill 21 people, including 19 children, at a Uvalde, Texas elementary school in May 2022.
Two weeks before that, an 18-year-old man used a modified AR-15 to kill 10 people and injure three more in a Buffalo, New York grocery store.
The same type of gun has also been used in at least 11 other mass shootings since 2012, according to USA Today. It's also used by thousands of Americans every day for hunting and target shooting.
What is an AR-15 rifle, and why is it so popular?
What is an AR-15 rifle?
An AR-15 is a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle that has been called "America's rifle" by the NRA with well over 15 million sold by 2019. "Semi-automatic," as opposed to "automatic," means that the weapon's operator must pull the trigger to fire each shot. The rifle then automatically reloads. An automatic weapon continues to fire as long as you hold down the trigger, and is (mostly) banned in the U.S.
"AR-15s are the most commonly used rifles in marksmanship competitions, training, and home defense," according to the NRA.
An AR-15 is not a specific model, but a style. It's the civilian variation of the ArmaLite AR-15, a variant of the AR-10 designed by Eugene Stoner in the 1950s, that was extremely lightweight, easy to care for and highly adaptable. ArmaLite sold the patent to Colt in the 1960s and they developed an automatic-fire version for the military called the M16. After Colt's patent ran out, other manufacturers began making their own versions.
What does AR-15 stand for?
AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle, named after the company that developed it. AR does not stand for "assault rifle" or "automatic rifle."
Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? What is an assault weapon?
That is a very contentious question.
According to the federal government as described in the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (known as the Assault Weapons Ban), the definition of assault weapon included some specific semi-automatic models by name and listed other firearms that included some specific features. For semi-automatic rifles, that meant being able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following: a folding or telescopic stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, a flash suppressor and/or a grenade launcher.
More generally since then, the federal government has usually used the term to refer to a military-style weapon, either semi-automatic or fully automatic, capable of firing multiple rounds.
But pro-gun advocates and the gun industry say that "assault rifle" should only apply to military weapons that are either fully automatic or have the capability of switching between semi-automatic and fully automatic, and that the features listed in the federal Assault Weapons Ban were simply cosmetic.
According to the NSSF, the Firearm Industry Trade Association, "AR-15-style rifles can look like military rifles, such as the M-16, but by law they function like other semiautomatic civilian sporting firearms, as they fire only one round with each pull of the trigger." Instead, they refer to the AR-15 as a "modern sporting rifle" or MSR.
Is an AR-15 a machine gun? What is a bump stock?
The AR-15 rifle is not a machine gun (which is not quite the same thing as an automatic rifle), but it can be modified to function like an automatic rifle when a "bump stock" is used.
In October 2017, a Las Vegas gunman used 23 different weapons to murder 58 people. Of the 23 guns, several AR-15 rifles were found in his hotel room with a bump stock attached. Following this shooting, President Donald Trump banned bump stocks. (The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the ban in 2023, and bump stocks are legal again: https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/after-nearly-a-4-year-ban-bump-stocks-are-available-in-texas/)
Why is the AR-15 so popular?
It's lightweight. It's rugged. It's accurate and has relatively little recoil. It's easy to modify, with plenty of accessories to make it more accurate, more comfortable, and more personal. Some gun owners enjoy a weapon that can be made to look like military hardware.
The NRA said "the AR-15 has soared in popularity" because it's "customizable, adaptable, reliable and accurate." It is also versatile and can be used for "sport shooting, hunting and self-defense situations," the NRA said, adding the ability to "personalize" so many of the rifle's components "is one of the things that makes it so unique."
"Like the Swiss Army knife, the popular AR-15 rifle is a perfect combination of home defense weapon and homeland defense equipment," said U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez when he overturned California's assault weapons ban in 2021. "Good for both home and battle."
But a big reason for the AR-15's popularity is its cost.
How much does an AR-15 cost?
New AR-15 rifles can sell for $400 to $2,000 and nearly every major gun manufacturer produces one. Ammunition is inexpensive and can be bought in bulk online, and magazines are interchangeable between manufacturers.
Why is the AR-15 so dangerous?
The AR-15 was designed to inflict what one of its designers called "maximum wound effect." AR-15s have a higher muzzle velocity than some other rifles and bullets leaving them at such a fast speed — nearly three times the speed of sound — cause more damage to bones and organs. AR-15 ammunition is also more likely to break apart inside a body, causing even more damage.
How many rounds can an AR-15 fire in a minute?
Without modifications such as a bump stock, an AR-15 can fire about 60 rounds a minute. A 30-round magazine is fairly standard with MSRs but ammunition magazines ("drums") holding up to 100 rounds can be changed in just a few seconds. Some states currently cap the capacity to 10 or 15 rounds.
Large magazines, or those containing more than 10 rounds, played a role in at least 86 mass shootings since 1980, according to a report from the Violence Policy Center, a national nonprofit that advocates for gun control.
Was an AR-15 used in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting?
Close, but not quite. A 29-year-old man used a Sig Sauer MCX and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
The Sig Sauer MCX is marketed as an MSR and is very similar to the AR-15. However, as explained in a Slate analysis, it is not considered an AR-15 because it uses a gas piston system to propel bullets from within the gun instead of a direct impingement system.
Was an AR-15 used in the Parkland, Florida high school mass shooting?
Yes. Police say a 19-year-old man used a Smith and Wesson M&P15, that manufacturer's version of the AR-15, to kill 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.
How many mass shootings have involved an AR-15?
Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles by themselves or in addition to other weapons during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:
June 1, 2022: Tulsa, Oklahoma (Dr. Preston Phillips medical center, 4 killed)
May 24, 2022: Uvalde, Texas (Robb Elementary School, 21 killed, several wounded)
May 17, 2022: Buffalo, New York (Tops Friendly Market, 10 killed, 3 wounded)
March 10, 2021: Boulder, Colorado (King Soopers grocery store, 10 people killed, 3 wounded
Aug. 31, 2019: Midland/Odessa (West Texas cities, 7 killed, 25 wounded)
Apr. 27, 2019: Poway synagogue (near San Diego, 1 killed, 3 wounded)
Oct. 27, 2018: Tree of Life Synagogue (Pittsburgh, 11 killed, 6 wounded)
April 22, 2018: Waffle House (Nashville, Tennessee, 4 killed, 3 injured)
Feb. 14, 2018: Parkland, Florida (Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, 17 killed, 17 wounded)
Nov. 5, 2017: Sutherland Springs (rural Texas church service, 26 people killed)
Oct. 1, 2017: Las Vegas (music festival, 58 killed, hundreds wounded)
June 12, 2016: Orlando, Florida (Pulse nightclub [not an AR-15 but very similar], 49 killed, 50 wounded)
Dec. 2, 2015: San Bernadino, California (holiday office party at Inland Regional Center, 14 killed, 21 wounded)
Dec. 14, 2012: Sandy Hook Elementary School (Newtown, Connecticut, 27 people killed)
June 20, 2012: Aurora, Colorado (Century 16 movie theater, 12 killed, 58 wounded)
Oct. 7, 2007: Crandon, Wisconsin (apartment, 6 killed, 1 wounded)
Feb. 24, 1984: Los Angeles (49th Street Elementary School, 2 killed, 12 wounded)
+++
To recap ... "AR" doesn't stand for assault rifle or automatic rifle. An AR-15 is a semiautomatic rifle that can fire off 60 rounds in a minute (many more with bump stocks) and is designed to cause significant damage.
Now that all of that valuable information has been presented in a concise, easy-to-read format, it's obvious that we don't need to worry about AR-15s. They're just good, clean fun, great for hunting varmints, and the framers obviously had AR-15s in mind when they penned the 2nd Amendment.
The NRA is a benevolent organization that cares only about keeping us safe; bump stocks should never be illegal because it's hard to kill a rabbit without being able to fire off 150 rounds in a minute; "What about Chicago?" is the real issue; Xmas cards that include legislators' families posing with guns are wholesome slices of Americana; we don't need no stinkin' laws to slow the AR-15 floodgates; and don't go askin' for more funding for mental-health issues, either.
Again, AR does not stand for assault rifle! Move along, folks, nothing to see here.
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An idea from an armchair politician (yours truly).....if we can't ban these weapons...
Why not tax both these guns and their ammunition at a rate of something like 200% (or more)? There is a societal cost to them, and that cost needs to be factored into the price people pay for them. This is how we have treated cigarette smoking, which was previously one of the major causes of death in this country, just like guns are now.
It won't solve everything, the guns already sold are already sold. But it at least will raise the barrier of acquisition. And it would only require simple majorities in each house because it would be a reconciliation (budget) bill. Could have been done in 2021-2022 Congressional Session.
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^^^ perfect. I’m sure as guns illegal exchange hands (does that ever happen in Chicago?), they’ll be sure to collect & submit the appropriate tax
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An idea from an armchair politician (yours truly).....if we can't ban these weapons...
Why not tax both these guns and their ammunition at a rate of something like 200% (or more)? There is a societal cost to them, and that cost needs to be factored into the price people pay for them. This is how we have treated cigarette smoking, which was previously one of the major causes of death in this country, just like guns are now.
It won't solve everything, the guns already sold are already sold. But it at least will raise the barrier of acquisition. And it would only require simple majorities in each house because it would be a reconciliation (budget) bill. Could have been done in 2021-2022 Congressional Session.
I like taxing the hell out of ammunition even more, because that covers those who already own guns. If the U.S. House and Senate won't do it, states can do it, just as they do with cigarette taxes, automotive fees, etc.
Just as smokers will keep paying ever-increasing taxes, so will those addicted to guns. Them buying their bullets can help pay for all the counselors schools need to console the survivors of the next mass shooting, and the one after that, and the one after that, and the one after that.
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^^^ perfect. I’m sure as guns illegal exchange hands (does that ever happen in Chicago?), they’ll be sure to collect & submit the appropriate tax
I literally said it wouldn't solve everything. But the Nashville shooter legally purchased her guns. She was 25 with limited income....it might have been a barrier to entry.
The Highland Park Shooter legally purchased his guns. He was like 19. Cost would be a barrier to entry there too.
Earmark the tax money towards mental health prevention and treatment. This will address the conservative argument about mental health.
And specifically regarding your comment.... you could require the tax be paid on private sales and it offers another tool for prosecutors to put away people involved in illegal arms sales....tax evasion. It is how they got Capone....
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I like taxing the hell out of ammunition even more, because that covers those who already own guns. If the U.S. House and Senate won't do it, states can do it, just as they do with cigarette taxes, automotive fees, etc.
Just as smokers will keep paying ever-increasing taxes, so will those addicted to guns. Them buying their bullets can help pay for all the counselors schools need to console the survivors of the next mass shooting, and the one after that, and the one after that, and the one after that.
Theoretically I agree but ammunition is so cheap you'd have to tax an incredible percentage for it to be meaningful. Which could be done. It is easier to tax a gun out of people's price ranges on a percentage basis. But I agree. Both should be done.
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Gang, I grew up in Nashville and I admit, I held my breath when the Metro Police announced the victims. Many of old my friends from high school lived in that general part of the city. It's an awful problem to have, school shoot-em-ups, and appears somewhat unique to American Society. Give the Metro Police credit -- they don't often get things right but they sure did yesterday!
It's easy to blame guns for what happened. If we didn't have assault rifles, the argument goes, this would not have happened. Maybe, but that's simplistic. As tough as it to ban assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons, that's easy compared to what needs to be done.
The biggest challenge is dealing with mental health problems in the United States. Beginning in the early 1980s, there was a bi-partisan push to treat mental health problems in the communities where the patients lived, rather than an institutions run by the state. It was bi-partisan. Republicans liked the lower cost compared to state run institutions and Democrats like the conceptual idea that people with mental problems can be mainstreamed and de-stigmatized. It hasn't worked out well.
I don't know enough to know about the shooter, but I'll betcha anything there was a serious mental health problem involved. Just like there was in Highland Park last summer. Or at the Pulse Nightclub, at Stoneman-Douglas High School here in Florida, in Colorado, Connecticut or elsewhere. Mental health problems fueled by hate and/or intolerance are a recipe for a tragedy.
It's time this country re-evaluates its approach to mental health. Yeah, evaluate what weapons should be in citizens' hands too, but take a hard look at how we handle mental issues. We need to ask as a nation, are we doing what's right?
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Gang, I grew up in Nashville and I admit, I held my breath when the Metro Police announced the victims. Many of old my friends from high school lived in that general part of the city. It's an awful problem to have, school shoot-em-ups, and appears somewhat unique to American Society. Give the Metro Police credit -- they don't often get things right but they sure did yesterday!
It's easy to blame guns for what happened. If we didn't have assault rifles, the argument goes, this would not have happened. Maybe, but that's simplistic. As tough as it to ban assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons, that's easy compared to what needs to be done.
The biggest challenge is dealing with mental health problems in the United States. Beginning in the early 1980s, there was a bi-partisan push to treat mental health problems in the communities where the patients lived, rather than an institutions run by the state. It was bi-partisan. Republicans liked the lower cost compared to state run institutions and Democrats like the conceptual idea that people with mental problems can be mainstreamed and de-stigmatized. It hasn't worked out well.
I don't know enough to know about the shooter, but I'll betcha anything there was a serious mental health problem involved. Just like there was in Highland Park last summer. Or at the Pulse Nightclub, at Stoneman-Douglas High School here in Florida, in Colorado, Connecticut or elsewhere. Mental health problems fueled by hate and/or intolerance are a recipe for a tragedy.
It's time this country re-evaluates its approach to mental health. Yeah, evaluate what weapons should be in citizens' hands too, but take a hard look at how we handle mental issues. We need to ask as a nation, are we doing what's right?
Every country in the world has mental health problems. Only one country has mass shootings. It seems "simplistic" to blame guns because the answer is literally staring us in the face.
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Gang, I grew up in Nashville and I admit, I held my breath when the Metro Police announced the victims. Many of old my friends from high school lived in that general part of the city. It's an awful problem to have, school shoot-em-ups, and appears somewhat unique to American Society. Give the Metro Police credit -- they don't often get things right but they sure did yesterday!
It's easy to blame guns for what happened. If we didn't have assault rifles, the argument goes, this would not have happened. Maybe, but that's simplistic. As tough as it to ban assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons, that's easy compared to what needs to be done.
The biggest challenge is dealing with mental health problems in the United States. Beginning in the early 1980s, there was a bi-partisan push to treat mental health problems in the communities where the patients lived, rather than an institutions run by the state. It was bi-partisan. Republicans liked the lower cost compared to state run institutions and Democrats like the conceptual idea that people with mental problems can be mainstreamed and de-stigmatized. It hasn't worked out well.
I don't know enough to know about the shooter, but I'll betcha anything there was a serious mental health problem involved. Just like there was in Highland Park last summer. Or at the Pulse Nightclub, at Stoneman-Douglas High School here in Florida, in Colorado, Connecticut or elsewhere. Mental health problems fueled by hate and/or intolerance are a recipe for a tragedy.
It's time this country re-evaluates its approach to mental health. Yeah, evaluate what weapons should be in citizens' hands too, but take a hard look at how we handle mental issues. We need to ask as a nation, are we doing what's right?
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Every country in the world has mental health problems. Only one country has mass shootings. It seems "simplistic" to blame guns because the answer is literally staring us in the face.
Brother Coleman:
Neither my wife nor I own weapons. We never will. Never fired a weapon, either on a range or at an animal for sport. Never will.
I live in Florida and find the gun culture here deplorable. If we banned guns, I'd be delighted.
Now back to reality. Banning assault rifles might have limited the firepower available to the shooter, but I could see her with lower firepower still walking in the school and doing damage. Red Flag? Yeah, pass a law but as Illinois showed, there are so many loopholes that they never will be terribly effective. But, surely we should try.
Ban all firearms? Not going to happen. Further, even if we did, it would take several centuries to get all the illegal firepower off our streets.
My answer, which seems to run counter to today's society is to toughen punishment for gun violations. Create a gun prison for offenders of gun laws. Begin with mandatory prison sentences for anyone caught and convicted of possessing an illegal firearm and go up to forever punishment for persons who kill with a firearm.
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^^^ perfect. I’m sure as guns illegal exchange hands (does that ever happen in Chicago?), they’ll be sure to collect & submit the appropriate tax
I know what happens in Chicago is the a high percentage of the guns recovered that are used in crimes come from surrounding states with lax gun laws, such as Indiana. Weird how that happens.
It's anything but the guns and gun laws, right?
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Gang, I grew up in Nashville and I admit, I held my breath when the Metro Police announced the victims. Many of old my friends from high school lived in that general part of the city. It's an awful problem to have, school shoot-em-ups, and appears somewhat unique to American Society. Give the Metro Police credit -- they don't often get things right but they sure did yesterday!
It's easy to blame guns for what happened. If we didn't have assault rifles, the argument goes, this would not have happened. Maybe, but that's simplistic. As tough as it to ban assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons, that's easy compared to what needs to be done.
The biggest challenge is dealing with mental health problems in the United States. Beginning in the early 1980s, there was a bi-partisan push to treat mental health problems in the communities where the patients lived, rather than an institutions run by the state. It was bi-partisan. Republicans liked the lower cost compared to state run institutions and Democrats like the conceptual idea that people with mental problems can be mainstreamed and de-stigmatized. It hasn't worked out well.
I don't know enough to know about the shooter, but I'll betcha anything there was a serious mental health problem involved. Just like there was in Highland Park last summer. Or at the Pulse Nightclub, at Stoneman-Douglas High School here in Florida, in Colorado, Connecticut or elsewhere. Mental health problems fueled by hate and/or intolerance are a recipe for a tragedy.
It's time this country re-evaluates its approach to mental health. Yeah, evaluate what weapons should be in citizens' hands too, but take a hard look at how we handle mental issues. We need to ask as a nation, are we doing what's right?
Mental Health.
Do you know anything about Mental Health? You are aware that % of violent people with mental health challenges is miniscule. Did you also know that people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of crime and violence than being the perpetrator?
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2021/04/ce-mental-illness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/
And separately the people who incorrectly blame mental health, just so happen to not introduce, and/or vote for legislation to support mental health resources and services.
As has been pointed out to you, other countries have similar mental health challenges too. They don’t have the guns.
It’s the guns.
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How many kids have to die before we care?
How many kids have to die before JB cares?
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Dgies,
Yes there are mental health issues.in our country. As well as poverty, alienation, racism, the gamut. The common thread in the vast majority of these is somebody angry and hurting decides the best solution to their pain, anger, or fear is to use a gun to inflict death and suffering on others.
How do we stop this nuclear meltdown?
Certainly, a large component of it is mental health. But letting hurt, angry, scared people have nearly unfettered access to ever more powerful weapons is a large component, too.
And some snark..... guns and ammo can't be taxed because it is a religion.
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Brother Coleman:
Neither my wife nor I own weapons. We never will. Never fired a weapon, either on a range or at an animal for sport. Never will.
I live in Florida and find the gun culture here deplorable. If we banned guns, I'd be delighted.
Now back to reality. Banning assault rifles might have limited the firepower available to the shooter, but I could see her with lower firepower still walking in the school and doing damage. Red Flag? Yeah, pass a law but as Illinois showed, there are so many loopholes that they never will be terribly effective. But, surely we should try.
Ban all firearms? Not going to happen. Further, even if we did, it would take several centuries to get all the illegal firepower off our streets.
My answer, which seems to run counter to today's society is to toughen punishment for gun violations. Create a gun prison for offenders of gun laws. Begin with mandatory prison sentences for anyone caught and convicted of possessing an illegal firearm and go up to forever punishment for persons who kill with a firearm.
I don't disagree with anything you said. You seem like a reasonable person. I don't want to ban all guns. Just semi-automatics. I grew up in Wisconsin and know lots of responsible hunters who have never needed an AR-15. You can protect your house with a shotgun too. There are legitimate reasons to own a gun and I do think the 2nd Amendment does provide for gun ownership. But with all rights come responsibilities and limitations...generally those limitations set in when my freedoms (directly or indirectly) harm other citizens. My right to free speech has limitations...I cannot slander or libel someone without consequences. All rights, apparently except for gun ownership in this country, have these limitations.
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Brother Coleman:
Neither my wife nor I own weapons. We never will. Never fired a weapon, either on a range or at an animal for sport. Never will.
I live in Florida and find the gun culture here deplorable. If we banned guns, I'd be delighted.
Now back to reality. Banning assault rifles might have limited the firepower available to the shooter, but I could see her with lower firepower still walking in the school and doing damage. Red Flag? Yeah, pass a law but as Illinois showed, there are so many loopholes that they never will be terribly effective. But, surely we should try.
Ban all firearms? Not going to happen. Further, even if we did, it would take several centuries to get all the illegal firepower off our streets.
My answer, which seems to run counter to today's society is to toughen punishment for gun violations. Create a gun prison for offenders of gun laws. Begin with mandatory prison sentences for anyone caught and convicted of possessing an illegal firearm and go up to forever punishment for persons who kill with a firearm.
I don't think any realistic, reasonable person believes banning all firearms is a realistic or reasonable outcomes.
But too often I see people say certain solutions aren't perfect so why even try. That's unacceptable. If any of these solutions can save any lives they're well worth it.
The fact of the matter is this only happens at this level in America. Mental illness is not unique to this country. Gun culture and the proliferation of guns is.
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And now someone is swatting schools in Pittsburgh.
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Imagine the kind of person who continues to shrugs their shoulders, make excuses, deflect, minimize this continually happening over and over again.
Looking at her face and thinking about what she did and that she's gone should make you feel sick. If it doesn't, something is very wrong.
And again, the damage that an AR15 does compared to a handgun is catastrophic. But sure, people need to have those because freedom. Pathetic.
(https://preview.redd.it/ke1e8mc8kjqa1.jpg?auto=webp&v=enabled&s=bdaa704c262847f22584bc32271d5a50fe73cef2)
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President John F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a high powered, low-cost assault weapon.
Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Assassinated with a high-powered, low-cost assault weapon owned by someone who never should have owned a weapon
Senator Robert F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a handgun by someone who probably under federal law shouldn't have owned a weapon.
President Gerald R. Ford -- Twice shot at using a handgun by women who should not have owned a handgun.
President Ronald W. Reagan -- Wounded by a mental patient who should not have owned or possessed a handgun
Pope John Paul II -- Wounded by a Bulgarian terrorist with a high-powered handgun.
Gang, we tried after each of these incidents at gun control. After President Kennedy was assassinated, we probably had the most comprehensive gun control in the form of reduction of mail-order assault rifles. But, after all of these incidents, very little happened. And most of these people are the elected leaders of the United States.
I wish you luck in trying, but I think this country will have better luck punishing folks who illegally possess firearms. And dealing with mental health issues, which I suspect are much greater than Europe.
Brother Vander:
Suppose the assailant did not have access t an automatic weapon. Suppose instead she entered the building with three Glocks and began firing indiscriminately. How would Nashville been that much different?
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And after that response..seems time to bring this one out again
(https://thehill-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/10/nowaytoprevent10022017twitter.jpg)
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President John F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a high powered, low-cost assault weapon.
Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Assassinated with a high-powered, low-cost assault weapon owned by someone who never should have owned a weapon
Senator Robert F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a handgun by someone who probably under federal law shouldn't have owned a weapon.
President Gerald R. Ford -- Twice shot at using a handgun by women who should not have owned a handgun.
President Ronald W. Reagan -- Wounded by a mental patient who should not have owned or possessed a handgun
Pope John Paul II -- Wounded by a Bulgarian terrorist with a high-powered handgun.
Gang, we tried after each of these incidents at gun control. After President Kennedy was assassinated, we probably had the most comprehensive gun control in the form of reduction of mail-order assault rifles. But, after all of these incidents, very little happened. And most of these people are the elected leaders of the United States.
I wish you luck in trying, but I think this country will have better luck punishing folks who illegally possess firearms. And dealing with mental health issues, which I suspect are much greater than Europe.
Brother Vander:
Suppose the assailant did not have access t an automatic weapon. Suppose instead she entered the building with three Glocks and began firing indiscriminately. How would Nashville been that much different?
It's the guns:
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons
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An idea from an armchair politician (yours truly).....if we can't ban these weapons...
Why not tax both these guns and their ammunition at a rate of something like 200% (or more)? There is a societal cost to them, and that cost needs to be factored into the price people pay for them. This is how we have treated cigarette smoking, which was previously one of the major causes of death in this country, just like guns are now.
It won't solve everything, the guns already sold are already sold. But it at least will raise the barrier of acquisition. And it would only require simple majorities in each house because it would be a reconciliation (budget) bill. Could have been done in 2021-2022 Congressional Session.
I like Chris Rock's idea from 2012, this would never happen if bullets cost $5000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw
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Imagine the kind of person who continues to shrugs their shoulders, make excuses, deflect, minimize this continually happening over and over again.
Looking at her face and thinking about what she did and that she's gone should make you feel sick. If it doesn't, something is very wrong.
And again, the damage that an AR15 does compared to a handgun is catastrophic. But sure, people need to have those because freedom. Pathetic.
(https://preview.redd.it/ke1e8mc8kjqa1.jpg?auto=webp&v=enabled&s=bdaa704c262847f22584bc32271d5a50fe73cef2)
Don’t worry. Once we get pronouns taken care of, this kid will be safe
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Kids are a necessary sacrifice at the altar of the Republican Party.
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Kids are a necessary sacrifice at the altar of the Republican Party.
Not true. They’re loosening child labor laws and saving them from the horror of being taught about racism in America. And think of all the books they can’t read now. Kids have never been safer
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President John F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a high powered, low-cost assault weapon.
Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Assassinated with a high-powered, low-cost assault weapon owned by someone who never should have owned a weapon
Senator Robert F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a handgun by someone who probably under federal law shouldn't have owned a weapon.
President Gerald R. Ford -- Twice shot at using a handgun by women who should not have owned a handgun.
President Ronald W. Reagan -- Wounded by a mental patient who should not have owned or possessed a handgun
Pope John Paul II -- Wounded by a Bulgarian terrorist with a high-powered handgun.
Gang, we tried after each of these incidents at gun control. After President Kennedy was assassinated, we probably had the most comprehensive gun control in the form of reduction of mail-order assault rifles. But, after all of these incidents, very little happened. And most of these people are the elected leaders of the United States.
I wish you luck in trying, but I think this country will have better luck punishing folks who illegally possess firearms. And dealing with mental health issues, which I suspect are much greater than Europe.
Brother Vander:
Suppose the assailant did not have access t an automatic weapon. Suppose instead she entered the building with three Glocks and began firing indiscriminately. How would Nashville been that much different?
Your response is part of the problem. IT just feels like more excuses and justifications.
I don't know if anything would have been different in this particular instance. Do you understand the different in damage that a bullet from an AR-15 causes vs. that of a handgun? The difference in the accuracy and the discharge of the bullets? Maybe that would have mattered. We know it would have mattered in other mass shootings.
I watched an interview with a doctor yesterday who described how the damage caused by an AR-15 round makes it nearly impossible to save the lives of people that have been struck. The difference in the size of the exit wound is enormous.
None of these "what if's" are reasons not to try.
Again, this only happens at this frequency in America and it's not even close. That's an indisputable fact. So is the proliferation of guns in this country. Now go ahead and ask that little girl's parents if they think it would have mattered if the killer "only had a glock" and see how that goes.
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Don’t worry. Once we get pronouns taken care of, this kid will be safe
You're right - it does all come back to pronouns. The scourge of our time.
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President John F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a high powered, low-cost assault weapon.
Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Assassinated with a high-powered, low-cost assault weapon owned by someone who never should have owned a weapon
Senator Robert F. Kennedy -- Assassinated with a handgun by someone who probably under federal law shouldn't have owned a weapon.
President Gerald R. Ford -- Twice shot at using a handgun by women who should not have owned a handgun.
President Ronald W. Reagan -- Wounded by a mental patient who should not have owned or possessed a handgun
Pope John Paul II -- Wounded by a Bulgarian terrorist with a high-powered handgun.
Gang, we tried after each of these incidents at gun control. After President Kennedy was assassinated, we probably had the most comprehensive gun control in the form of reduction of mail-order assault rifles. But, after all of these incidents, very little happened. And most of these people are the elected leaders of the United States.
I wish you luck in trying, but I think this country will have better luck punishing folks who illegally possess firearms. And dealing with mental health issues, which I suspect are much greater than Europe.
Brother Vander:
Suppose the assailant did not have access t an automatic weapon. Suppose instead she entered the building with three Glocks and began firing indiscriminately. How would Nashville been that much different?
People who are about to commit these kinds of crimes don't think about possible punishment. I mean, they either know they are going to get life in prison (or the death penalty, depending on the state) or they kill themselves (or commit "suicide by cop"). Although it's true that some murderers -- like Kyle Rittenhouse, George Zimmerman, O.J. and hundreds of cops over the years -- literally get away with murder, and are often supported by the gun-lover lobby.
There are already laws on the books for variety of non-murder gun violations. Yes, enforce them. And create some new ones, such as failure to lock up one's gun if there are children in the house. Make bump stocks illegal and enforce it. Make silencers illegal and enforce it.
And while no reasonable person would argue against banning semiautomatic weapons, there are many other things that should be tried far short of banning guns -- and they have been discussed in this thread and in every previous thread after one of these incidents (so, in other words, lots of threads and lots of discussions and lots of suggestions).
The crazy thing is that some of these have the support of 75%+ of Americans -- even of Republicans. When is the last time anything had the support of 75% of Americans? And yet many of our representatives are so deep in the pockets of the NRA that they won't even enact policies that their constituents want. People who claim that all life matters believe access to guns matters more.
The best thing to get the ball rolling? Vote against politicians who put the sanctity of guns ahead of the sanctity of life. Lots of those a-holes make themselves easy to find. They send out Xmas cards with their families posing with guns, or they twit posts of "enemy" politicians in crosshairs, or they mention the 2nd Amendment with reverence any time they talk about the Constitution. (Not free speech, not freedom to assemble, not the right to vote in free fair elections, but guns guns guns.) Others are more subtle, but only a little more. Regardless of what party they're in, vote 'em out. That'd be a damn good start.
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OK gang.
First off, as I said before, if we can ban semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles, Uzis and any other high speed weapon of choice, wonderful. I'm all in favor of it and I'll vote for politicians that support it. I'd support tougher ownership laws and I'm a big believer in consequences. I'd like to see state laws changed to severely punish people convicted of illegal activity with a gun -- including folks who possess firearms and are not adequately licensed and registered to own firearms.
I come from a family where my brother-in-law was an avid outdoorsman, including hunting. He resigned the NRA over their unwillingness to support bans on certain types of ammunition that pierced police Kevlar vests. Even President George H.W. Bush resigned the NRA over some of their more bizarre gun policies.
All of this said, I'm a pragmatist. Every time we have an incident, we have calls for more gun control. Let's assume we get it. The are more firearms than people in the United States and millions of illegal, unregistered firearms that are floating around in gray and black markets. Illinois, for example, has some of the toughest gun laws in the country and yet there is no shortage of illegal firearms on the streets of Chicago. Think the source will dry up? Think again!
Cocaine, heroin, PCP, Meth, fentanyl, etc., all have been universally illegal in the United States for decades. Yet, there's enough cocaine in this country to cover every street in Miami with a three foot dusting of cocaine. If there's one thing the war on drugs has taught us, if there's a demand for something, illegal or otherwise, someone will supply it. My point is, the Insane Idiots Street Gang Ltd., will find guns. If the law would stop them, then why do we have the slaughter we do on the streets of Chicago? Or Miami? Or Rockford? Or St. Louis?
What I'm trying to argue is that this country needs to change its tactic. Make any illegal firearm possession and/or use a felony. Punish the offenders with long, parole-free sentences. Figure out what constitutes the minimum criteria not to be "cruel and unusual" punishment and then apply the criteria to firearms offenders. Combine that with a re-evaluation and refocus of our efforts on mental health treatment and I'm guessing we'll have a better outcome.
Bottom line: there's no one solution. You can make weapons harder to get but we need strong punishment, better mental health and dare I say, more hope.
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Kids are a necessary sacrifice at the altar of the Republican Party.
Yeah, well Democrats had power for months and didn't do anything either.
Blood on both of their hands.
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OK gang.
First off, as I said before, if we can ban semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles, Uzis and any other high speed weapon of choice, wonderful. I'm all in favor of it and I'll vote for politicians that support it. I'd support tougher ownership laws and I'm a big believer in consequences. I'd like to see state laws changed to severely punish people convicted of illegal activity with a gun -- including folks who possess firearms and are not adequately licensed and registered to own firearms.
I come from a family where my brother-in-law was an avid outdoorsman, including hunting. He resigned the NRA over their unwillingness to support bans on certain types of ammunition that pierced police Kevlar vests. Even President George H.W. Bush resigned the NRA over some of their more bizarre gun policies.
All of this said, I'm a pragmatist. Every time we have an incident, we have calls for more gun control. Let's assume we get it. The are more firearms than people in the United States and millions of illegal, unregistered firearms that are floating around in gray and black markets. Illinois, for example, has some of the toughest gun laws in the country and yet there is no shortage of illegal firearms on the streets of Chicago. Think the source will dry up? Think again!
Cocaine, heroin, PCP, Meth, fentanyl, etc., all have been universally illegal in the United States for decades. Yet, there's enough cocaine in this country to cover every street in Miami with a three foot dusting of cocaine. If there's one thing the war on drugs has taught us, if there's a demand for something, illegal or otherwise, someone will supply it. My point is, the Insane Idiots Street Gang Ltd., will find guns. If the law would stop them, then why do we have the slaughter we do on the streets of Chicago? Or Miami? Or Rockford? Or St. Louis?
What I'm trying to argue is that this country needs to change its tactic. Make any illegal firearm possession and/or use a felony. Punish the offenders with long, parole-free sentences. Figure out what constitutes the minimum criteria not to be "cruel and unusual" punishment and then apply the criteria to firearms offenders. Combine that with a re-evaluation and refocus of our efforts on mental health treatment and I'm guessing we'll have a better outcome.
Bottom line: there's no one solution. You can make weapons harder to get but we need strong punishment, better mental health and dare I say, more hope.
We have been saying some version of your last paragraph in every one of these threads, including this one.
Yeah, well Democrats had power for months and didn't do anything either.
Blood on both of their hands.
Well, there's some false equivalence in there because, in general, only one side celebrates the gun culture at every turn. But I won't argue against the basic point you're making.
The Dems had 2 full years with the presidency, a 60-seat Senate and the strong House majority but failed to pass tougher gun laws -- or immigration reform, for that matter.
They did push through a health-care law that has become popular over time -- almost every red state now has expanded the ACA's reach and millions of people who lacked coverage now have it -- but they squandered other opportunities to make Americans safer and to improve equality. So in that respect, even though they don't pose in front of Xmas trees with rifles, they do have blood on their hands.
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Talk about being honest with data. "If we group all of these totally separate things together into one grouping I just arbitrarily decided to make up, combined they are the largest single cause of death!" SMH
Also, there is a whole organization out there dedicated to ensuring Americans have the most tools out there to suffocate, poison, and drown people with, and their right to those tools shall not be abridged!
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Yeah, well Democrats had power for months and didn't do anything either.
Blood on both of their hands.
(https://media.tenor.com/Zg3S8AfQKCEAAAAC/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-migraine.gif)
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Yeah, well Democrats had power for months and didn't do anything either.
Blood on both of their hands.
You are being totally dishonest. Dems HAVE NOT had a filibuster-proof advantage. They HAVE passed numerous gun control laws that were then killed in the Senate. They ARE STILL in favor of passing more common sense gun laws but the Rs won't have it.
You need to learn how government works before making untrue statements. If Dems ever get a 60-40 advantage in the Senate, then come back with your argument.
Until then, please tell me how Dems could have done it,. I'm all ears.
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Bottom line: there's no one solution. You can make weapons harder to get but we need strong punishment, better mental health and dare I say, more hope.
Yes, in previous iterations of this discussion there have been more than a dozen suggestions, none of which individually or even collectively solve the problem 100%, but which taken together would surely reduce gun violence and deaths significantly without abridging the 2nd Amendment.
One side of the aisle absolutely refuses to consider any of the solutions. And the twats on here continue to fall back on their refrain of "Laws don't work, criminals don't obey the law, why do we even have laws anyway" idiocy.
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^^^ ban a lot of these theys
“No politics, unless we agree with you” — ScoopRules
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^^^ ban a lot of these theys
“No politics, unless we agree with you” — ScoopRules
Try the new message board
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^^^ ban a lot of these theys
“No politics, unless we agree with you” — ScoopRules
(https://media.giphy.com/media/YAoywZXhD2Rg68CTDc/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
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Some of these arguments and statements are inevitable and predictable. Including JB being offended.
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^^^ ban a lot of these theys
“No politics, unless we agree with you” — ScoopRules
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/SqflD5OvHoWILB7qWm/giphy.gif)
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U guys just here 4 Da choc chip ice cream, like ur leader?
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Everyone should eat more ice cream. The world would be a happier place.
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U guys just here 4 Da choc chip ice cream, like ur leader?
Your leader too, aina?
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Your leader too, aina?
Duz u mean you’re?
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Nashville congressman responds to radical trans group: Turning shooter into 'martyr' is 'beyond disturbing'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nashville-congressman-responds-to-radical-trans-group-turning-shooter-into-martyr-is-beyond-disturbing
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That was inevitable. And every bit as wrong as the other extreme.
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Well, there's some false equivalence in there because, in general, only one side celebrates the gun culture at every turn.
Brother MU:
Sadly, I don't agree with you. If this nation collectively wanted gun control, assault weapons bans and stricter regulation on firearms and ammunition, we'd have it. People would lobby their Congressman or Congresswoman and Senators, NRA money would dry up and, frankly, fewer firearms would be purchased in this country.
None of this has happened.
Our gun culture in this country is crazy and goes far beyond legitimate hunting and protection needs. We seem hung up on the notion of having firepower with no purpose.
We have a crazy gun culture in Florida that scares the living beejeebers out of me. There's more concealed carry permits in this state than there are high school diplomas. Our state hardly is THAT dangerous. And yet we're literally up to our eyeballs in firearms. And, it's a real threat. In our old neighborhood here, houses were close together and the design was similar. One of our neighbors walked up to our house thinking it was his. He tried to open the door and aroused my wife' suspicions. Had he seen her and been armed, he was justified under our state's "Stand Your Ground" in shooting her. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed.
I get that people want to hunt. I also get there is room for folks who view shooting as a sport -- and a challenge -- as long as its done legally and on a range. There's also people out west who live 50 to 100 miles from a police or sheriff's office and need firearms for protection. The challenge is how we protect these legitimate rights and needs while assuring the woman who shot up Covenant School didn't get an assault weapon -- or any firearm for that matter.
We've had the debate over assault weapons for a long, long time. At least since President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Maybe a ban on assault weapons would have made a difference in Nashville. Maybe not. I have no idea. But what I do know, sadly, is the country as a whole does not want significant incremental controls on firearms.
And that's a mistake we're going to have to live with.
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Nashville congressman responds to radical trans group: Turning shooter into 'martyr' is 'beyond disturbing'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nashville-congressman-responds-to-radical-trans-group-turning-shooter-into-martyr-is-beyond-disturbing
Don't worry, 9-9-9. Kentucky's legislature just overrode a gubernatorial veto to pass a law that surely will lead many trans kids kill themselves. So there'll be fewer people on earth to turn this shooter into a "martyr."
Sadly, I don't agree with you.
Well, we agree on most everything except which side is absolutely intractable on gun legislation, refusing to consider measures that 75%+ of Americans want. Because, you know, all life matters.
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You are being totally dishonest. Dems HAVE NOT had a filibuster-proof advantage. They HAVE passed numerous gun control laws that were then killed in the Senate. They ARE STILL in favor of passing more common sense gun laws but the Rs won't have it.
You need to learn how government works before making untrue statements. If Dems ever get a 60-40 advantage in the Senate, then come back with your argument.
Until then, please tell me how Dems could have done it,. I'm all ears.
I'm not the one being dishonest here. End the filibuster.
Stop supporting moderates. Stop accepting their excuses. It's all they have to offer.
I assure you, I am very aware how government works.
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“The first thing [Democrats] talked about is taking guns away from law-abiding citizens. And that’s not the answer,” Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.) said at a news conference. “Why don’t we, number one, keep those families in our prayers, and then see if there were things that were missed along the way.”
Yep, the families of those 3 dead kids, and all the children who will traumatized forever by the Nashville shooting, will be comforted to know that congresspeople are praying to the all-powerful god who did a bang-up job of protecting their school from the shooting.
If only schoolchildren were still inside their mothers' wombs, maybe their lives would matter more to Scalise and his cohorts.
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Don't worry, 9-9-9. Kentucky's legislature just overrode a gubernatorial veto to pass a law that surely will lead many trans kids kill themselves. So there'll be fewer people on earth to turn this shooter into a "martyr."
Well, we agree on most everything except which side is absolutely intractable on gun legislation, refusing to consider measures that 75%+ of Americans want. Because, you know, all life matters.
Sickening law in KY, guess freedom only applies to some. The Nashville shooting is yet another sign that we don’t actually focus on freedom.
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When Jockey, Mike and others are standing on soapboxes screaming at the top of their lungs that all Republicans are evil, hate children and must be destroyed at all costs is that considered political or simply the official position of Scoop?
IBTL
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I'm not the one being dishonest here. End the filibuster.
Stop supporting moderates. Stop accepting their excuses. It's all they have to offer.
I assure you, I am very aware how government works.
Brother Hards:
The American people get what the American people want. Period. Brother MU said 75 percent of the American people want some form of firearms control. Undoubtedly true but the form of that firearms control is an open issue.
During the 1960s, Congress passed and President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Public Accommodations Act of 1965 and the Fair Housing Act of 1967. Each of those laws had strong, powerful opponents who went down to a very nasty defeat in Congress because of bi-partisan support for the end of segregation. The number of Americans seeking a change far exceeded status quo advocates.
That's not close to happening in this country.
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When Jockey, Mike and others are standing on soapboxes screaming at the top of their lungs that all Republicans are evil, hate children and must be destroyed at all costs is that considered political or simply the official position of Scoop?
IBTL
Official position of Scoop. They all should receive harsh bans for knowingly disregarding the rules, but the powers-that-be have different rules for different people.
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Brother Hards:
The American people get what the American people want. Period. Brother MU said 75 percent of the American people want some form of firearms control. Undoubtedly true but the form of that firearms control is an open issue.
During the 1960s, Congress passed and President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Public Accommodations Act of 1965 and the Fair Housing Act of 1967. Each of those laws had strong, powerful opponents who went down to a very nasty defeat in Congress because of bi-partisan support for the end of segregation. The number of Americans seeking a change far exceeded status quo advocates.
That's not close to happening in this country.
Wrong.
https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained
The American people get what the American people want only if the wealthy and elite also want it.
We are dang close to an oligarchy.
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Official position of Scoop. They all should receive harsh bans for knowingly disregarding the rules, but the powers-that-be have different rules for different people.
Have you tried the new message board?
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Official position of Scoop. They all should receive harsh bans for knowingly disregarding the rules, but the powers-that-be have different rules for different people.
You should probably cry about it more. Rocket and 4ever haven't caught a ban lately despite their constant nonsense. The great oppression of the conservatives on this board is greatly inflated.
I apologize for not leaving any grammar for you to correct today.
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I don't know if 75% of Americans really want gun control when it matters most (voting day). Seems like they may say they want it, as long as it aligns with their other political beliefs. If it truly was 75% that were adamant about it, politicians would take notice.
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Remember when BeeJay had some other poster come on here and cry that he was permabanned? Even had the poster share a screenshot of his permaban. That was funny. Even funnier when he returned.
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You should probably cry about it more. Rocket and 4ever haven't caught a ban lately despite their constant nonsense. The great oppression of the conservatives on this board is greatly inflated.
I apologize for not leaving any grammar for you to correct today.
Dat's 'cuz wee no ball, aina?
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Brother Hards:
The American people get what the American people want. Period. Brother MU said 75 percent of the American people want some form of firearms control. Undoubtedly true but the form of that firearms control is an open issue.
During the 1960s, Congress passed and President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Public Accommodations Act of 1965 and the Fair Housing Act of 1967. Each of those laws had strong, powerful opponents who went down to a very nasty defeat in Congress because of bi-partisan support for the end of segregation. The number of Americans seeking a change far exceeded status quo advocates.
That's not close to happening in this country.
We don't get what we want at all. Popular policies are shot down all the time. Paid maternal leave, government funding for childcare, medicare for all, medicare negotiation of drug prices, minimum wage increases, tax reform to make the super wealthy pay more. Each of these policies has 70% support among the American public. Yet, here we sit. Zero legislation.
So no, we don't get what we want. We get what those who can afford to lobby want. Period. The system is broken, and becomes more broken every decade.
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I don't know if 75% of Americans really want gun control when it matters most (voting day). Seems like they may say they want it, as long as it aligns with their other political beliefs. If it truly was 75% that were adamant about it, politicians would take notice.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/lQ1nXVifuLqyVAH2Gu/giphy.webp)
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Dat's 'cuz wee no ball, aina?
Wee ball is how I would describe you, yes. ;D
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I see the Scoop Martyrs are out nailing themselves to crosses this morning.
And it's not even Good Friday yet.
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I don't know if 75% of Americans really want gun control when it matters most (voting day). Seems like they may say they want it, as long as it aligns with their other political beliefs. If it truly was 75% that were adamant about it, politicians would take notice.
Might be because gerrymandering of Congressional districts means that representatives really only need to keep themselves safe from a primary challenge, especially in heavily red or blue states. And that requires appealing first and foremost to the base and fringe.
Thus, while 75% of the general population favors gun control, it doesn't matter a lick when the other 25% makes up the majority your primary voters.
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Might be because gerrymandering of Congressional districts means that representatives really only need to keep themselves safe from a primary challenge, especially in heavily red or blue states. And that requires appealing first and foremost to the base and fringe.
Thus, while 75% of the general population favors gun control, it doesn't matter a lick when the other 25% makes up the majority your primary voters.
Id be curious to see what candidate lost whose number 1 platform was gun control.
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We don't get what we want at all. Popular policies are shot down all the time. Paid maternal leave, government funding for childcare, medicare for all, medicare negotiation of drug prices, minimum wage increases, tax reform to make the super wealthy pay more. Each of these policies has 70% support among the American public. Yet, here we sit. Zero legislation.
So no, we don't get what we want. We get what those who can afford to lobby want. Period. The system is broken, and becomes more broken every decade.
There are three components to any political position:
1) Do you want it? Yes or no?
2) How badly do you want it? (1= yeah it would be nice; 10 = I'll actively push for it and devote my time to it).
3) How is the question written?
Let's use Medicare negotiation of drug prices as an example.
Sure, I'd like to pay less for my pharmaceuticals. Who wouldn't? That has about 90 percent approval.
But, how badly do you want it? Well, it depends on who is insuring you and what your out of pocket costs are. If your out-of-pocket is minimal, then concern probably drops compared to not having a prescription plan or having a weak one.
How the question is written is critical. And, so is the scope of an issue. For example, with Medicare control of drug prices, if you compare today to say 40 years ago, the amount of therapeutics, new drugs and new treatments for diseases brought about by America's pharmaceutical companies is enormous. If you take the profit and return motive away from the pharmaceutical industry, guess what -- capital will flow to other businesses with a higher return and the number of new treatments to treat diseases like Alzheimer's will decrease.
I don't really want to get into an ancillary/hijacked argument about Medicare. My point is that no question, including gun control, is simple. You can boil the question down to a simple issue but the fact that we don't have legislation covering some of the issues you outline, including gun control, suggests the matters are not nearly as simple as you make them out to be.
Money helps but in many districts across the country, gun control and assault rifles are less an issue than say, economic growth, infrastructure, environmental regulation, foreign affairs, the Supreme Court etc.
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There are three components to any political position:
1) Do you want it? Yes or no?
2) How badly do you want it? (1= yeah it would be nice; 10 = I'll actively push for it and devote my time to it).
3) How is the question written?
Let's use Medicare negotiation of drug prices as an example.
Sure, I'd like to pay less for my pharmaceuticals. Who wouldn't? That has about 90 percent approval.
But, how badly do you want it? Well, it depends on who is insuring you and what your out of pocket costs are. If your out-of-pocket is minimal, then concern probably drops compared to not having a prescription plan or having a weak one.
How the question is written is critical. And, so is the scope of an issue. For example, with Medicare control of drug prices, if you compare today to say 40 years ago, the amount of therapeutics, new drugs and new treatments for diseases brought about by America's pharmaceutical companies is enormous. If you take the profit and return motive away from the pharmaceutical industry, guess what -- capital will flow to other businesses with a higher return and the number of new treatments to treat diseases like Alzheimer's will decrease.
I don't really want to get into an ancillary/hijacked argument about Medicare. My point is that no question, including gun control, is simple. You can boil the question down to a simple issue but the fact that we don't have legislation covering some of the issues you outline, including gun control, suggests the matters are not nearly as simple as you make them out to be.
Money helps but in many districts across the country, gun control and assault rifles are less an issue than say, economic growth, infrastructure, environmental regulation, foreign affairs, the Supreme Court etc.
As per the study I share above, ultimately, legislation that gets passed is based on lobbying money above all else. What's popular or "what people want" is irrelevant
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Id be curious to see what candidate lost whose number 1 platform was gun control.
I'd be curious to see the unicorn Republican who made gun control number 1 to 100 on his or her platform.
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Messaging please, Pak.
It’s not gun control legislation that we want, it’s gun safety legislation.
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When Jockey, Mike and others are standing on soapboxes screaming at the top of their lungs that all Republicans are evil, hate children and must be destroyed at all costs is that considered political or simply the official position of Scoop?
IBTL
I can’t speak for others, Tony, but I certainly never said what you’re implying here. For example, I consider you and dg to be very reasonable Republicans, and I’ve said so right in this thread.
Politicians who refuse to even consider anything sensible while offering prayer as a solution … they’re a big part of the problem. And then to use this shooting to double-down on their hatred of trans people is disgusting.
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I'd be curious to see the unicorn Republican who made gun control number 1 to 100 on his or her platform.
Brian Fitzpatrick-Pa
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Have you tried the new message board?
So you’re saying considering all Republicans evil people who hate children and want them to die IS the official position of Scoop and anyone who disagrees should go elsewhere. Thanks for the confirmation - I was unaware you were in charge of things here. Thanks for the heads up!
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Lenny Man, this comes from the same cat who thinks the University of North Texas is in Tulsa. So there's that, hey?
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So you’re saying considering all Republicans evil people who hate children and want them to die IS the official position of Scoop and anyone who disagrees should go elsewhere. Thanks for the confirmation - I was unaware you were in charge of things here. Thanks for the heads up!
Feeling persecuted, much?
Could you show me where I ever said that?
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Feeling persecuted, much?
Could you show me where I ever said that?
1.Not at all
2. “Kids are a necessary sacrifice at the altar of the Republican Party” Your quote, this thread, page 6.
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There are three components to any political position:
1) Do you want it? Yes or no?
2) How badly do you want it? (1= yeah it would be nice; 10 = I'll actively push for it and devote my time to it).
3) How is the question written?
Let's use Medicare negotiation of drug prices as an example.
Sure, I'd like to pay less for my pharmaceuticals. Who wouldn't? That has about 90 percent approval.
But, how badly do you want it? Well, it depends on who is insuring you and what your out of pocket costs are. If your out-of-pocket is minimal, then concern probably drops compared to not having a prescription plan or having a weak one.
How the question is written is critical. And, so is the scope of an issue. For example, with Medicare control of drug prices, if you compare today to say 40 years ago, the amount of therapeutics, new drugs and new treatments for diseases brought about by America's pharmaceutical companies is enormous. If you take the profit and return motive away from the pharmaceutical industry, guess what -- capital will flow to other businesses with a higher return and the number of new treatments to treat diseases like Alzheimer's will decrease.
I don't really want to get into an ancillary/hijacked argument about Medicare. My point is that no question, including gun control, is simple. You can boil the question down to a simple issue but the fact that we don't have legislation covering some of the issues you outline, including gun control, suggests the matters are not nearly as simple as you make them out to be.
Money helps but in many districts across the country, gun control and assault rifles are less an issue than say, economic growth, infrastructure, environmental regulation, foreign affairs, the Supreme Court etc.
I appreciate your response, but it is an asinine one.
How important an issue is is irrelevant. Politicians can walk and chew gum at the same time. They stay away from the issues I've brought up because they are paid to.
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Dat's 'cuz wee no ball, aina?
sending you thoughts and prayers, thought you were a playa
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Lenny Man, this comes from the same cat who thinks the University of North Texas is in Tulsa. So there's that, hey?
Whoosh
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So you’re saying considering all Republicans evil people who hate children and want them to die IS the official position of Scoop and anyone who disagrees should go elsewhere. Thanks for the confirmation - I was unaware you were in charge of things here. Thanks for the heads up!
What I said was, try the new message board. I’m not in charge of anything. If I were, this thread would have been locked when it got posted
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Hey look! It's conservatives claiming to be victims once again! Will people please start thinking of rich white males for once! They just can't catch a break!
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"It's a mental health problem"
"Okay so pass a law that says people with mental health problems can't purchase guns"
"No"
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That would be discriminatory. Equal protection clause guarantees access to high powered military style weapons regardless of mental health status. The vast majority will not become mass murderers. And the possession of a high powered firearm can be therapeutic.
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I appreciate your response, but it is an asinine one.
How important an issue is is irrelevant. Politicians can walk and chew gum at the same time. They stay away from the issues I've brought up because they are paid to.
Brother Hards:
Not at all. Politicians reflect the will of the people they represent. Period. They have to if they want to get reelected. I get that there is party branding and orthodoxy but at days end, the job of a politician -- especially a legislator -- is to represent constituents.
For example, back in the early 1990s, Illinois was represented by one Alan J. Dixon. He was from the downstate and one of the most powerful vote-getters the state ever saw. He was secretary of state and later U.S. Senator.
When the Clarence Thomas matter came up for consideration in the U.S. Senate, Dixon had to choose between his middle of the road constituency in the Downstate, who slightly favored confirming Justice Thomas, and his liberal Chicago constituency, who wanted Clarence Thomas jammed in a Coke can and sent down the river. Senator Dixon voted to confirm Justice Thomas and faced a vicious challenge from Carol Mosley Braun. Ms. Braun, a political nobody at that point, became a U.S. Senator largely because Senator Dixon failed to measure the views of his constituency.
Senator Al Gore Sr., faced the same problem when he lost to Bill Brock in Tennessee in 1970. Heck, Val Demings lost to Little Marco, R-Cuba, down here last time for the same reason. She was a good candidate but failed to grasp the critical issue to Floridians.
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Whoosh
The sound a joke makes as it passes over an inert cranium.
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The sound a joke makes as it passes over an inert cranium.
Another innocent victim of the jab
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Brother Hards:
Not at all. Politicians reflect the will of the people they represent. Period. They have to if they want to get reelected. I get that there is party branding and orthodoxy but at days end, the job of a politician -- especially a legislator -- is to represent constituents.
For example, back in the early 1990s, Illinois was represented by one Alan J. Dixon. He was from the downstate and one of the most powerful vote-getters the state ever saw. He was secretary of state and later U.S. Senator.
When the Clarence Thomas matter came up for consideration in the U.S. Senate, Dixon had to choose between his middle of the road constituency in the Downstate, who slightly favored confirming Justice Thomas, and his liberal Chicago constituency, who wanted Clarence Thomas jammed in a Coke can and sent down the river. Senator Dixon voted to confirm Justice Thomas and faced a vicious challenge from Carol Mosley Braun. Ms. Braun, a political nobody at that point, became a U.S. Senator largely because Senator Dixon failed to measure the views of his constituency.
Senator Al Gore Sr., faced the same problem when he lost to Bill Brock in Tennessee in 1970. Heck, Val Demings lost to Little Marco, R-Cuba, down here last time for the same reason. She was a good candidate but failed to grasp the critical issue to Floridians.
No. You're living in fantasyland. I vote for the least worst of two candidates, and I don't expect the one I vote for to actually represent me in a meaningful way. They don't share my views on most topics. I vote only because I know that the other candidate is objectively worse. And I know I'm not alone.
I can go into why the American electoral system is broken and our general political system is broken and basically unfixable... but no one wants to read my dissertation about that.
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1.Not at all
2. “Kids are a necessary sacrifice at the altar of the Republican Party” Your quote, this thread, page 6.
Instead of crying about being persecuted (you are not being), maybe actually refute the notion that kids are being hurt by policies that advocate for unfettered access to guns. For instance, peer countries have a 28 day waiting period for firearms and multiple recent mass shootings were perpetrated against children within 48 hours of purchasing assault rifles. Republicans actively campaign against:
1. Expanded background checks
2. Waiting periods
3. Bans on assault rifles
All of which are democrat backed policies put in place in other peer countries with much much much lower incidence of firearm related fatalities in school age children.
So, yes, the previous statement remains true even if it hurts your feelings.
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I can go into why the American electoral system is broken and our general political system is broken and basically unfixable... but no one wants to read my dissertation about that.
Ranked Choice voting would get rid of most elected extremists.
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Trump indicted.
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Good try.
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Mandalay bay shooter killed all those people because he felt mistreated by casinos.
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Mental health issues are a bitch, hey?
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Mental health issues are a bitch, hey?
Sad that they exist primarily in the U.S.
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Trump indicted.
Rocket just pulled his drill out of a patient's mouth like a record scratch
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Sad that they exist primarily in the U.S.
And that people who cite “mental health issues” are unwilling to address those issues.
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Brother Hards:
Not at all. Politicians reflect the will of the people they represent. Period. They have to if they want to get reelected. I get that there is party branding and orthodoxy but at days end, the job of a politician -- especially a legislator -- is to represent constituents.
For example, back in the early 1990s, Illinois was represented by one Alan J. Dixon. He was from the downstate and one of the most powerful vote-getters the state ever saw. He was secretary of state and later U.S. Senator.
When the Clarence Thomas matter came up for consideration in the U.S. Senate, Dixon had to choose between his middle of the road constituency in the Downstate, who slightly favored confirming Justice Thomas, and his liberal Chicago constituency, who wanted Clarence Thomas jammed in a Coke can and sent down the river. Senator Dixon voted to confirm Justice Thomas and faced a vicious challenge from Carol Mosley Braun. Ms. Braun, a political nobody at that point, became a U.S. Senator largely because Senator Dixon failed to measure the views of his constituency.
Senator Al Gore Sr., faced the same problem when he lost to Bill Brock in Tennessee in 1970. Heck, Val Demings lost to Little Marco, R-Cuba, down here last time for the same reason. She was a good candidate but failed to grasp the critical issue to Floridians.
You live in a fantasy world.
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Mental health issues are a bitch, hey?
Adorable. Now talk about how people with mental health issues are more likely to be violent. Oh wait, that’s not true.
If only we could figure out how other countries have eliminated this level of gun violence because they don’t have mental health issues. Wait, that’s not true, either?
This is a real conundrum. 🤔
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And that people who cite “mental health issues” are unwilling to address those issues.
Not true. We’re here to help u, Nads
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Not true. We’re here to help u, Nads
Can’t provide any reasonable solution so go ahead and resort to attacks. Predictable and pathetic.
I love how it’s clear who tries to get these threads shut down by trolling while the adults actually discuss reasonable concerns and approaches. Sad!
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Can’t provide any reasonable solution so go ahead and resort to attacks. Predictable and pathetic.
I love how it’s clear who tries to get these threads shut down by trolling while the adults actually discuss reasonable concerns and approaches. Sad!
Hilarious 😂
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Trump indicted.
Meh.
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Meh.
Good day for casual anti-semitism. Sure the usual suspects are outraged by it
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JB had a train derail a little up the road. Far more interesting to me.
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It'll be a good photo op
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Remember in the wake of Parkland back in 2018 when the leader of the free world suggested that guns be taken away from people with mental health issues?
“Take the guns first. Go through due process second. I like taking the guns early.”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-puts-nra-on-defensive-with-stunning-gun-comments
NRA mucky-mucks and numerous politicians who had been bought by the NRA (including the then vice president) practically fainted on the spot.
Wayne LaPierre then had a good heart-to-heart chat with the recently indicted one, and the leader of the free world's brief bout of conscience regarding guns ended forever.
Fun times.
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JB had a train derail a little up the road. Far more interesting to me.
3 derailments a day in this country
#BanTrains
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CBS News reportedly barring staff from using term 'transgender' to reference Nashville shooter
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cbs-news-reportedly-barring-staff-from-using-term-transgender-reference-nashville-shooter
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Well, if Fox is reporting on another organization's policies, I am sure that it would be accurate.
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3 derailments a day in this country
#BanTrains
Wait until you hear about semis!
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Wait until you hear about semis!
You’re a big caboose guy, aina?
PS- we actually have family in the town where the derailment was. Evacuation was fairly brief, folks are ok
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Glad to hear.
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You’re a big caboose guy, aina?
PS- we actually have family in the town where the derailment was. Evacuation was fairly brief, folks are ok
Who isn't?
Yeah, at this point they're just publicizing them all so that if something bad happens they can be there.
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Wait until you hear about semis!
https://news.yahoo.com/dueling-semitruck-drivers-head-head-223907516.html
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Andrew has a thread going today:
https://twitter.com/trublu24/status/1642909678056140805?t=j6x1Jn-jM2EzIYCYV9YtXA&s=19
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Apparently multiple staff members at The Covenant School in Nashville carry guns with them. So much for the good guys with a gun stopping the bad guys with a gun. But please, let's arm our teachers. That's the solution!
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Apparently multiple staff members at The Covenant School in Nashville carry guns with them. So much for the good guys with a gun stopping the bad guys with a gun. But please, let's arm our teachers. That's the solution!
“Apparently”… aka a lady says “I’m not sure… but we a school person, or two… don’t know, but they would be packing”
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At 10:12:05 a.m. Monday, a woman calling from the office of the nursery said, "We do have a school person, or two ... I'm not sure ... who would be packing, whose job it is for security. We don't have security guards, but we have staff."
She did not name who typically carried weapons, and it is not clear whether those staff members were at the school at the time of the shooting.
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Now talk about how people with mental health issues are more likely to be violent.
Eh, there are quite a few mental illnesses that make people have a predisposition towards violent behavior.
If only we could figure out how other countries have eliminated this level of gun violence because they don’t have mental health issues. Wait, that’s not true, either?
This is a real conundrum. 🤔
Other countries are much better at tackling mental health issues.
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Apparently multiple staff members at The Covenant School in Nashville carry guns with them. So much for the good guys with a gun stopping the bad guys with a gun. But please, let's arm our teachers. That's the solution!
Jesus would arm teachers
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A gun should be on every child's school supply list, just like crayons, safety scissors and glue sticks.
It's the only possible solution.
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A gun should be on every child's school supply list, just like crayons, safety scissors and glue sticks.
It's the only possible solution.
Parents that haven’t signed kids up for weapons training by age 2 are negligent. Freedom isn’t free and it’s time parents understand guns have rights
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A gun should be on every child's school supply list, just like crayons, safety scissors and glue sticks.
It's the only possible solution.
I think we can do without the glue sticks. The little suckers would be high all day.
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I think we can do without the glue sticks. The little suckers would be high all day.
Better to free them of any inhibitions they may have about killing someone.
Last thing we need are second graders who hesitate when it's time to pull the trigger.
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/73/8e/YgzFAHip_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/YgzFAHip)
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Good news, gun-lovers: All Floridians can be packin' ... no training required!
https://apnews.com/article/guns-desantis-florida-government-ac7adbc200cc4c1bb429ea84357f73be?user_email=6647dfa7189f748384d7389910f7b584c6fcfc35ae990102964c7e826d4175c7&utm_medium=Afternoon_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=AfternoonWire_April3_2023&utm_term=Afternoon%20Wire
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Floridians will be able to carry concealed guns without a permit under a bill Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed Monday, giving the governor another legislative victory as he prepares a campaign for president.
The governor signed the bill in a private ceremony in his office. His only immediate public comment was, “Constitutional Carry is in the books,” which he said in a three-paragraph news release.
The new law will allow anyone who can legally own a gun in Florida to carry one without a permit. It means training and a background check will not be required to carry concealed guns in public. It takes effect July 1.
Yep, big victory for the governor, because if there's one thing Americans want it's even easier access to deadly weapons. Happiness is a warm gun.
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Teachers should teach. Armed guards should protect. All schools need armed guards present, hey?
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Teachers should teach. Armed guards should protect. All schools need armed guards present, hey?
Tennessee is proposing a $140 million spending bill to address this. Very heartwarming story they found the money to help educators!
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Teachers should teach. Armed guards should protect. All schools need armed guards present, hey?
Armed guards were present at Parkland and Uvalde.
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Teachers should teach. Armed guards should protect. All schools need armed guards present, hey?
I actually agree with this.
I still don't think it solves the problem though.
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Why don't other countries need armed guards in every school?
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Why don't other countries need armed guards in every school?
Because mental illness doesn't exist there. Duh.
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Teachers should teach. Armed guards should protect. All schools need armed guards present, hey?
What about daycare centers, YMCAs, youth sporting events, churches, malls…I could go on
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Good news, gun-lovers: All Floridians can be packin' ... no training required!
https://apnews.com/article/guns-desantis-florida-government-ac7adbc200cc4c1bb429ea84357f73be?user_email=6647dfa7189f748384d7389910f7b584c6fcfc35ae990102964c7e826d4175c7&utm_medium=Afternoon_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=AfternoonWire_April3_2023&utm_term=Afternoon%20Wire
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Floridians will be able to carry concealed guns without a permit under a bill Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed Monday, giving the governor another legislative victory as he prepares a campaign for president.
The governor signed the bill in a private ceremony in his office. His only immediate public comment was, “Constitutional Carry is in the books,” which he said in a three-paragraph news release.
The new law will allow anyone who can legally own a gun in Florida to carry one without a permit. It means training and a background check will not be required to carry concealed guns in public. It takes effect July 1.
Yep, big victory for the governor, because if there's one thing Americans want it's even easier access to deadly weapons. Happiness is a warm gun.
Nice cut/paste & rant, but Florida is the 26th state with open/Constitutional carry.