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Author Topic: Al's Run Canceled  (Read 7996 times)

warriorchick

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Have some patience, FFS.

cheebs09

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2023, 06:56:00 PM »
That’s a lot of words to not really give a clear message. That’s a bummer.

Goose

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2023, 06:58:57 PM »
That is horrible news. I do not get the announcement. That has been a weekend our family has always looked forward to.

Daniel

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2023, 07:05:59 PM »
Terrible news for sure.   A run is no longer a good thing.  Not inclusive enough I guess the message is.

21Jumpstreet

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2023, 07:10:23 PM »
Terrible news for sure.   A run is no longer a good thing.  Not inclusive enough I guess the message is.

Kinda reads that way. I’m sure they could have incorporated some pretty cool events for people of all abilities. Too bad

real chili 83

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2023, 07:10:52 PM »
What a horse sh1t reason.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2023, 07:13:38 PM »
I haven’t gone for a long time, but I think it’s a shame. Surely they could have come up with some creative ways to expand the reach.

Jay Bee

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2023, 07:15:04 PM »
S U P E R B A R[/color]
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

panda

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2023, 07:25:31 PM »
Terrible news for sure.   A run is no longer a good thing.  Not inclusive enough I guess the message is.

Al’s run is (was) the most inclusive run/walk event I’ve ever been a part of. Something stinks to high hell

Goose

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2023, 07:32:14 PM »
Panda

No kidding. I have a friend from high school that has a quadriplegic son and he has been active participant in Al’s and every major run, including WI Ironman. I always loved to the joy in his face at Al’s, even now when he is grown man. The inclusion of everyone made it a special event to me.

I still remember the early days of starting in front of Children’s Hospital and seeing, the kids, nurses and Dr.’s watching and cheering on the start of the run. IMO, those were special moments in life.

warriorchick

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2023, 07:45:22 PM »
What a horse sh1t reason.

I know, right?

If not everyone can actually run in Al's Run, no one can.
Have some patience, FFS.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2023, 07:45:44 PM »
I remember the early days too. Great fun.

Herman Cain

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2023, 07:48:58 PM »
https://twitter.com/docReiner/status/1638957649373831179?t=hKyhR6BbS0tnFUtR_CFvIA&s=19
So why doesn’t MU sponsor this event now. Have the NIL collective run it for the benefit of other 501c3 and a little bit for itself
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avid1010

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2023, 07:49:08 PM »
I know, right?

If not everyone can actually run in Al's Run, no one can.
Yeah...not buying the reasoning. 

Lighthouse 84

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2023, 07:53:13 PM »
I know, right?

If not everyone can actually run in Al's Run, no one can.
How F-ing stupid. One can run, walk or get pushed in a wheelchair. It’s a fundraiser that brings people together. This is one of the most moronic things I’ve heard in a long time. 
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jesmu84

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 07:54:04 PM »
I choose to believe Children's used a terrible excuse to save some dough

Skip Intro

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2023, 07:59:19 PM »
I have no insider info, but I’m guessing it’s a combo of two things:

1. I think Briggs & Stratton pulled or greatly reduced their sponsorship.  That company is barely a presence in Milwaukee anymore.  In fact, I think they’ll be gone from the city in a few years, so sponsoring this event doesn’t really benefit them.

2.  Attendance was way down last year.  8000 runners in 2022 vs. 15,000 in 2018.  And it was only 10,000 in 2019, so it wasn’t all covid related.  It probably takes more than 8000 runners to make something of that magnitude make sense.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2023, 08:14:17 PM »
Progress!

Goose

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2023, 08:15:17 PM »
PRN

Thanks for the laugh.

muwarrior69

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2023, 08:19:29 PM »
I know, right?

If not everyone can actually run in Al's Run, no one can.

...and 7 likes?

avid1010

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2023, 08:21:51 PM »
I have no insider info, but I’m guessing it’s a combo of two things:

1. I think Briggs & Stratton pulled or greatly reduced their sponsorship.  That company is barely a presence in Milwaukee anymore.  In fact, I think they’ll be gone from the city in a few years, so sponsoring this event doesn’t really benefit them.

2.  Attendance was way down last year.  8000 runners in 2022 vs. 15,000 in 2018.  And it was only 10,000 in 2019, so it wasn’t all covid related.  It probably takes more than 8000 runners to make something of that magnitude make sense.
This makes plenty of sense.

Goose

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2023, 08:25:36 PM »
Getting a sponsor should be a fairly easy get. I have no idea how big attendance needs to be, but it is by far the biggest run/walk in the state. If Al’s is not big enough, the other 250+ 5k’s are not big enough.

I guess someone could argue the route, but a grand total of six cars drive down Wisconsin Ave on a Saturday morning.

UWW2MU

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2023, 09:16:28 PM »
Survey for those who want to share their opinion with the organizers.

surveymonkey.com/r/SBHVBH3
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 09:18:48 PM by UWW2MU »

Skip Intro

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2023, 09:33:43 PM »
Getting a sponsor should be a fairly easy get. I have no idea how big attendance needs to be, but it is by far the biggest run/walk in the state. If Al’s is not big enough, the other 250+ 5k’s are not big enough.

I guess someone could argue the route, but a grand total of six cars drive down Wisconsin Ave on a Saturday morning.

The logistics of Al’s run were pretty tough.  Having two separate event spaces (MU campus and Summerfest grounds), bussing thousands who parked at Summerfest to the start line, etc.  It’s expensive and takes a ton of time and effort.  To make it work financially, they’d likely need to increase the entry fee by quite a bit, but that’d only make attendance drop even more.  I think Children’s just realized they could raise more through smaller events and campaigns.  They tried to sugarcoat these smaller events as being more inclusive, but this was about the costs.


mu_hilltopper

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2023, 10:10:29 PM »
I don't understand the "it's too expensive" concept.

In the end, it raised money, lots of it.   "It didn't raise enough money"??

I'm furious.  That was a great event, and the PR release was just terrible.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2023, 10:39:22 PM »
I guess someone could argue the route, but a grand total of six cars drive down Wisconsin Ave on a Saturday morning.

Right, but all 6 get shot at, and 12 parked along the route get broken widows. I don't blame them.

WarriorFan

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2023, 11:35:41 PM »
The release sounded to me like the woke crowd intervened.  Complete crap in my opinion.  I could see re-formulating it for a common start/finish point...I could see so many ways to preserve it. 

Maybe after next year's NCAA Championship MU can sponsor it (again) and re-name it Shaka's Run?

I ran it every year as a student.  Nothing better.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

rocky_warrior

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2023, 11:41:30 PM »
In the end, it raised money, lots of it.   "It didn't raise enough money"??

Well, we didn't host an muscoop fundraising campaign the past few years, probably my fault.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2023, 05:32:20 AM »
Wouldn't changing the route to start and finish at the same place reduce costs?  I've seen plenty of long running road races change routes and in some cases locations to reduce cost

wisblue

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2023, 05:57:01 AM »
Other running events have been having a hard time working with the city to get the approvals they need to close streets and provide security. I think the Waukesha parade incident has affected that.

That may be a factor in getting this event put together. So they might be looking for an event that can be held in one location without the need to close streets.

real chili 83

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2023, 06:11:02 AM »
I can live with it not being a good financial return for the hospital.  The reason they gave was garbage. About the worse look possible. Fund raising and credibility need to be linked.  Children’s mission will trump this blunder long term, but approaching this issue with a statement that is void of integrity is quite the blunder. 

I’m guessing that the “expert” who made this call has no appreciation for the energy Milwaukee can have  for this event. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2023, 06:24:02 AM »
The release sounded to me like the woke crowd intervened.  Complete crap in my opinion.  I could see re-formulating it for a common start/finish point...I could see so many ways to preserve it. 

Maybe after next year's NCAA Championship MU can sponsor it (again) and re-name it Shaka's Run?

I ran it every year as a student.  Nothing better.

It didn't read like that.

You guys are going to be shocked when you hear that they're just rebranding the run to Wojo's Run.

jesmu84

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2023, 06:43:32 AM »
It didn't read like that.

You guys are going to be shocked when you hear that they're just rebranding the run to Wojo's Run.

Don't be so ableist, hards

Jay Bee

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2023, 07:54:04 AM »
So why doesn’t MU sponsor this event now. Have the NIL collective run it for the benefit of other 501c3 and a little bit for itself

MU can’t have the NIL collective do anything. They are not affiliated.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

lessthannick11

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2023, 08:30:30 AM »
It didn't read like that.

You guys are going to be shocked when you hear that they're just rebranding the run to Wojo's Run.


So the route fades at the end and no one finishes the race upright?

Hards Alumni

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2023, 08:38:58 AM »

So the route fades at the end and no one finishes the race upright?

It's okay, you still get the big check at the end though.

The Lens

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2023, 08:39:07 AM »
Can Marquette sponsor Al's run to benefit the NIL Collective?
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History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

Hards Alumni

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2023, 08:39:51 AM »
Can Marquette sponsor Al's run to benefit the NIL Collective?

MU can’t have the NIL collective do anything. They are not affiliated.

The Lens

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2023, 08:48:39 AM »
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO THE 46TH AL'S RUN SPONSORED BY TOWN BANK benefitting the  NIL
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

MUfan12

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2023, 09:04:55 AM »
You think the optics on this were bad for Children's, imagine how it'd look to pivot this event to put cash in the pockets of athletes.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2023, 09:38:32 AM »
You think the optics on this were bad for Children's, imagine how it'd look to pivot this event to put cash in the pockets of athletes.

No chit.  People need to get their heads out of they asses.

lostpassword

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2023, 09:47:45 AM »
This is not being well-received on social media nor in some local media outlets.  The reaction is generally one of confusion around explanation.  Local radio hosts (620AM) discussed this today and understood there may be ROI issues or challenges working with the city on street shut-downs/safety, but that's not the reason given.  They even played an 1983 commercial with Al and Pat.
 Vince (host and formerly on the board for Wisconsin Special Olympics) was as bufuddled as I am about the "ALL abilities" reason given.

I don't think you can have something called "Al's Run" if it's not for Children's or a similar cause.  It's why Al put his name on the thing to start.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 09:49:35 AM by lostpassword »

Warriors4ever

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2023, 10:01:10 AM »
I can buy the reasons given by some of our posters. The explanation is completely befuddling.

MUBurrow

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2023, 10:06:05 AM »
FWIW, event-based fundraising is very much out of fashion in nonprofit/development circles.  The ROI of holding events is generally not there (including the nonfinancial publicity benefits), especially when pricing in staff time.  So if attendance was down, I could see that being part of the issue, along with some of the other things suggested here. 

Nonprofits often have a tough time messaging why long-beloved events are canceled in a way that doesn't alienate donors.  But like, pouring gasoline on the woke-SJW wars is... a choice.

dgies9156

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2023, 10:21:44 AM »
I get the difficulty associated with operating the run. When bureaucracies get involved, risk managers weigh in and pointy heads make their opinion known, people find hundreds of reasons not to do something.

There's only one reason to do something: It matters.

It Matters to Children's Hospital, not because it puts money in someone's pocket but because it raises visibility for the important work that's done at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin.

It Matters to the Community, because it is a form of exercise and calls attention to the need for physical fitness in an era of way too much obesity.

It Matters to Milwaukee, because it brings visibility to the city and the state.

It Matters to Marquette because it continues to honor a man who gave his career to something that made us proud, built a national basketball program and made us happy, made us laugh and even made us cry a few times.

I'm not a runner but I respect the work Coach Al did for the community and the loyalty he had to Southeast Wisconsin. All I can say is one word:

Idiots!


Goose

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2023, 10:28:05 AM »
dgies

I think your post sums things up perfectly. Well done.

Mu8891

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2023, 10:52:47 AM »
Dgies …

Excellent post.  I agree.   Very bad look for Children’s that this is being shut down.

muwarrior69

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2023, 11:53:48 AM »
No chit.  People need to get their heads out of they asses.

Is that the preferred pronoun of those who cancelled the run?

Coleman

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2023, 12:04:35 PM »
I have no insider info, but I’m guessing it’s a combo of two things:

1. I think Briggs & Stratton pulled or greatly reduced their sponsorship.  That company is barely a presence in Milwaukee anymore.  In fact, I think they’ll be gone from the city in a few years, so sponsoring this event doesn’t really benefit them.

2.  Attendance was way down last year.  8000 runners in 2022 vs. 15,000 in 2018.  And it was only 10,000 in 2019, so it wasn’t all covid related.  It probably takes more than 8000 runners to make something of that magnitude make sense.

Isn't Briggs HQ in the Milwaukee area? Are they moving?

The Lens

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2023, 12:05:35 PM »
I'm mostly kidding about the NIL stuff but MU should take this over.  Getting even 5,000 people on campus at once is a great PR thing for MU.  Endless non-profits that MU could fundraise for.  I'm very familar with the scale of events like this.  A close family member has produced dozens of them.  This is an opportunity to zag because so many are going away.  Especially a timed 8K which is rare with the glutony of 5K walks.  The city is becoming harder to work with one these so pausing allows them to say no in future years.   
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 12:23:56 PM by The Lens »
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wisblue

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2023, 12:07:56 PM »
Maybe an announcement that the event wouldn’t be held, and the public reaction to it, would bring out another sponsor that would resurrect it.

lostpassword

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2023, 12:31:12 PM »
Maybe an announcement that the event wouldn’t be held, and the public reaction to it, would bring out another sponsor that would resurrect it.

Per the press release, sponsorship isn't the problem.  Yeah it might be but that's why I hope Children's explains this better.  I filled out the survey and hope others do as well.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2023, 12:41:15 PM »
First, it was the B&G Fish Fry.  Then it was Marquette Madness, then Haunted Hoops. Now Al's Run.

They hate us!!!

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2023, 12:44:02 PM »
MU should absolutely take it over.  Have the money go to reading and math programs for kids in Milw or to a Jesuit school in a developing country. Keeps the focus on helping kids.

Solutions, not problems.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2023, 12:56:53 PM »
I think if MU took it over, it needs to stay with a local focus on kids needs.

lawdog77

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2023, 12:58:10 PM »
Would Al's estate allow it? Hologram AL will be pissed.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2023, 01:20:39 PM »
Is that the preferred pronoun of those who cancelled the run?

Completely unnecessary

FartyEightHours

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2023, 01:55:12 PM »
What a strange way for the run to end.  It was a fixture for my dad.
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Class71

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2023, 07:13:41 PM »
Numerous races have double amputees and wheelchair participants. More to this than the lame explanation given. They are not fooling anyone.
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NoLongerWarrior

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2023, 07:42:59 PM »
I’m a hospital administrator. This all makes perfect sense. Similar to administrators in other large organizations primarily funded by the government, we too seek the path of least resistance in every scenario. In this case, a purple-haired victim probably complained about the lack of inclusivity, and rather than endure ze shrieks of pain over the phone, the administrator chose to end the event with a brief Twitter post. It was probably faster to draft that post and submit it to media outlets than it would have been to deal with Karen.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2023, 10:46:14 AM »
I get the difficulty associated with operating the run. When bureaucracies get involved, risk managers weigh in and pointy heads make their opinion known, people find hundreds of reasons not to do something.

There's only one reason to do something: It matters.

It Matters to Children's Hospital, not because it puts money in someone's pocket but because it raises visibility for the important work that's done at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin.

It Matters to the Community, because it is a form of exercise and calls attention to the need for physical fitness in an era of way too much obesity.

It Matters to Milwaukee, because it brings visibility to the city and the state.

It Matters to Marquette because it continues to honor a man who gave his career to something that made us proud, built a national basketball program and made us happy, made us laugh and even made us cry a few times.

I'm not a runner but I respect the work Coach Al did for the community and the loyalty he had to Southeast Wisconsin. All I can say is one word:

Idiots!

  way to cut thru the sh!t dog!  people need to get back to what got this started in the first place and get the politics out of it!!

whenever "things" get too big and too successful, someone who believes they have the best intentions comes in and ruins it.  briggs should just step aside as they essentially have in the milwaukee business community already and let someone else become the main sponsor. 

   if possible, i think someone should just start over.  with the mcguire family blessings, start a new one.  take it to the lakefront where they could start and finish it in a logistical place.  start it where all the students ran to following 1977.  or where pat smith and al threw the beachball into lake michigan to prove a point to ray meyer.   


https://digitalmarquette.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16280coll1/id/14268/


  *sidenote-i have concerns about children's hospital getting involved in stuff they ethically and morally have no business even thinking about and i'll leave it at that
felz Houston ate uncle boozie's hands

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2023, 01:06:08 PM »
  way to cut thru the sh!t dog!  people need to get back to what got this started in the first place and get the politics out of it!!

whenever "things" get too big and too successful, someone who believes they have the best intentions comes in and ruins it.  briggs should just step aside as they essentially have in the milwaukee business community already and let someone else become the main sponsor. 

   if possible, i think someone should just start over.  with the mcguire family blessings, start a new one.  take it to the lakefront where they could start and finish it in a logistical place.  start it where all the students ran to following 1977.  or where pat smith and al threw the beachball into lake michigan to prove a point to ray meyer.   


https://digitalmarquette.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16280coll1/id/14268/


  *sidenote-i have concerns about children's hospital getting involved in stuff they ethically and morally have no business even thinking about and i'll leave it at that

No one cares about your personal views about the subject, so maybe just don't even lob that grenade in here in the first place.

i71_dawg

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2023, 01:40:15 PM »
Is that the preferred pronoun of those who cancelled the run?

😂 😆
MUBB fan for nearly 30 years

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2023, 06:04:49 PM »
No one cares about your personal views about the subject, so maybe just don't even lob that grenade in here in the first place.

 come on hardy, this whole board is pretty much "personal views"  not sure what "grenade" you are referring to but if it is "personal views" you don't like-put me on your ignore list and move along
felz Houston ate uncle boozie's hands

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2023, 07:38:28 PM »
"ensuring our fund raising events are engaging for kids and adults of all abilities".   I take that to mean they think most Milwaukee people are too fat for a run. 

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2023, 08:24:13 PM »
Sir Larry wanted me to post this from 1978.

Not sponsored by Children's .. was the "Limb Bank" run.


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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2023, 09:35:08 PM »
Thank you topper for posting.  I still don’t know how to post personal photos.

I ran Al’s a dozen times. One year my  best friend pointed out to me that while I did beat him, a very pregnant woman beat me (photos for sale).

As Goose and others have stated, it was truly a fun and memorable event.  I had the honor of running beside Al hisself in 79 or 80, God rest his soul.
Ludum habemus.

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2023, 10:22:48 PM »
I ran Al’s a dozen times. One year my  best friend pointed out to me that while I did beat him, a very pregnant woman beat me (photos for sale).

Sir Larry, you were always a big Al's run supporter  (with matching donations)... Appreciated. One day (maybe soon) we'll have a similar effort to support.

I suppose I am supposed to plug the NIL collective, but that's different. ..

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2023, 08:46:48 AM »
Sir

Al’s Run was still such a big event that ran into the Commissioner there last year. It was a rare sighting of a MKE legend.

Sir Lawrence

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2023, 11:43:47 AM »
Sir

Al’s Run was still such a big event that ran into the Commissioner there last year. It was a rare sighting of a MKE legend.

I assume he was spectating not participating?
Ludum habemus.

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Re: Al's Run Canceled
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2023, 03:12:56 PM »
come on hardy, this whole board is pretty much "personal views"  not sure what "grenade" you are referring to but if it is "personal views" you don't like-put me on your ignore list and move along

Nah, you injected BS not related to the topic at hand that was political.  You guys cry about MU82 doing it all the time.

Own it, and just knock it off like a grown up.

 

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