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Author Topic: Beyond Painful  (Read 13772 times)

Goose

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #175 on: March 22, 2023, 11:28:44 AM »
brew

I agree completely.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #176 on: March 22, 2023, 12:31:47 PM »
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.


It was a memorable year and despite the L to MSU, it was a huge success. I'll enjoy recalling this season as a whole rather than dwelling on the losses. Since 67 of the 68 teams will end up losing (and yes, the loser in the title game will be "massively disappointed"), it boggles my mind how anyone can place all their hopes in the tourney results.
 
Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.

So be it. Sounds like a curse to me. After 35 games, you have declared the season as a failure because of the 36th, correct? Or am I misinterpreting you? I see our season as a massive success, you see it as a "massive disappointment". If I shared your opinion, I would give up being a fan of any team and just see how things play out in March.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #177 on: March 22, 2023, 12:37:41 PM »
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

I agree with all of this. In 10 years I will fondly remember the season that they won the outright Big East Title and the BET and set the program record for wins in a season. I will also remember being disappointed that they didn't make it out of first weekend in the tournament, but that will be secondary.

As I told my wife on the drive home from Columbus on Sunday: This Marquette season is one of the most enjoyable sports seasons I can remember in my long life as a sports fan. I had a lot of fun watching this team and their games. I really like the players and coaches. I've had a lot of great and memorable experiences as a sports fan -- my favorite teams have won Superbowls, the World Series, an NBA title, and NCAA Football championships (they've made it to the final games/series on other occasions). I can't honestly say that I enjoyed any of those seasons more than I enjoyed this basketball season with Marquette. It was special. Of course I wish they were still playing and we'd be celebrating the National Championship, but it didn't happen. But it was really, really fun while it lasted. And I will always remember this season fondly. I will have more and better memories of this season than of any prior Marquette season (disclaimer: I wasn't a Marquette fan until I enrolled in 1987). This includes 2003.

I sincerely hope it was just the start of a prolonged period of success.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #178 on: March 22, 2023, 02:51:04 PM »
It was a memorable year and despite the L to MSU, it was a huge success. I'll enjoy recalling this season as a whole rather than dwelling on the losses. Since 67 of the 68 teams will end up losing (and yes, the loser in the title game will be "massively disappointed"), it boggles my mind how anyone can place all their hopes in the tourney results.

I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #179 on: March 22, 2023, 02:59:18 PM »
I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.

Fair points
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CTWarrior

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #180 on: March 22, 2023, 03:28:15 PM »
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!
100%.  The reason I was so angry and frustrated after Sunday's loss is because this is the first time since 2013 we entered the tournament with a team that I thought could potentially make a run.  I'm not used to having high hopes dashed in the tournament.  You have to have hopes to have them dashed.
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LAZER

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #181 on: March 22, 2023, 03:56:19 PM »
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.
Yes it would matter a lot more if they made the Elite 8 this year.

wisblue

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #182 on: March 22, 2023, 05:45:51 PM »
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say, especially that this season will be more memorable than 2011.

But I’m puzzled by the comment that the only game you’re concerned with winning is the one on the first Monday in April.

I’ll probably be accused for the umpteenth time of being  in the COLE, but I have to think that the over/under on MU National Championships over the next 25 years (longer than my current life expectancy) is 0.5, and under would be the best bet.

Winning national championships is hard for anyone, but it’s especially hard for an institution like Marquette and it’s only going to get harder in the NIL era. In my book, this was an entertaining and exciting season that will be memorable no matter what happens in the future. Looking back, fans might appreciate more how special this season was.

I have said before this season that I would rather see MU win a regular season title than make it to the Sweet 16 after a season of finishing in the middle of the conference like in 2011. I’ve also thought that it would be fun to see MU in a BET title game and win one. The way I feel about this season just confirms that, especially as the immediate pain from Sunday’s gut punch begins to subside.

Maybe the day will come when conference championships become old hat for MU like they are for programs like Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, et al. But, until then, I’m not going to shrug them off as meaningless if the team fails to make the Final Four.

Coming into this tournament I believed that MU was capable of beating anyone in the tournament, and that’s about the best I would ever expect. But you also have to recognize in this age of parity that there were at least a couple dozen teams in the field that were capable of beating them. That being the case, it was very likely that the tournament was eventually going to end with a disappointment sooner or later. It would have been nice for it to come later, or not come at all.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 05:54:02 PM by wisblue »

wisblue

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #183 on: March 22, 2023, 05:48:57 PM »
I agree with all of this. In 10 years I will fondly remember the season that they won the outright Big East Title and the BET and set the program record for wins in a season. I will also remember being disappointed that they didn't make it out of first weekend in the tournament, but that will be secondary.

As I told my wife on the drive home from Columbus on Sunday: This Marquette season is one of the most enjoyable sports seasons I can remember in my long life as a sports fan. I had a lot of fun watching this team and their games. I really like the players and coaches. I've had a lot of great and memorable experiences as a sports fan -- my favorite teams have won Superbowls, the World Series, an NBA title, and NCAA Football championships (they've made it to the final games/series on other occasions). I can't honestly say that I enjoyed any of those seasons more than I enjoyed this basketball season with Marquette. It was special. Of course I wish they were still playing and we'd be celebrating the National Championship, but it didn't happen. But it was really, really fun while it lasted. And I will always remember this season fondly. I will have more and better memories of this season than of any prior Marquette season (disclaimer: I wasn't a Marquette fan until I enrolled in 1987). This includes 2003.

I sincerely hope it was just the start of a prolonged period of success.

Nice.


brewcity77

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #184 on: March 22, 2023, 05:59:17 PM »
But I’m puzzled by the comment that the only game you’re concerned with winning is the one on the first Monday in April.

I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.
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Goose

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #185 on: March 22, 2023, 06:02:59 PM »
Brew

You are spot on again. I am with you 100% of the way. Nothing in life is easy, especially greatness. MU can win a NC. It might never happen again, but that is why I am so vested in the process as well.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #186 on: March 22, 2023, 06:03:14 PM »
I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.

I feel the same and I didn't go to Marquette. Donated to the NIL fund for the 1st time last night and bought 3 NIL TShirts from the site PaintTouches sent out.

I'm as bought in as I can be right now.
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mugrad_89

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #187 on: March 22, 2023, 06:09:12 PM »
I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.

This x1000 - we have the right coach and the talent level is only going to get better.  I have  not been this optimistic about the trajectory of the program in a long time.

wisblue

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #188 on: March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 PM »
There are a lot of posters here who would have been quite miserable during the McGuire era until 1977.

There was a lot less competition in those days because MU essentially got a pass into the Sweet 16 with an opening game against the MAC or OVC winner, but they had a lot of problems in the round of 16 against the SEC and/or Big10 champs.

It’s ironic that the championship came in a year in which MU lost more games than they had in 10 years, and was in serious danger of missing the tournament.

I don’t see being excited about conference championships while hoping for a national title (no matter how unlikely it is) to be mutually exclusive feelings.

But, what I’m hearing here is some people who seem to be saying that they would feel better about this season if MU had lost the late season games to Xavier and Creighton and finished in third place in the Big East, then lost in the first round of the BET but won two games in the NCAA before bowing out. I definitely do not feel that way about it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 06:55:00 PM by wisblue »

MU82

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #189 on: March 22, 2023, 07:08:38 PM »
Great posts, brew.

Being disappointed about the season's sudden end -- as I'm sure Shaka and the players are -- while also having enjoyed the season more than any other in 2 decades are not mutually exclusive thoughts. The dual Big East titles had me bursting with Marquette pride, while I'm definitely bummed about the ending. It left all of us wanting more, and that's sports.

Marquette friends of mine who hadn't talked much about the team in years -- and even a few who don't particularly like basketball -- were texting me and each other all season long about how much they loved this team. Shaka and his players have brought fans like them all the way back. That's been one of the best parts of all this.

I can't even remember which Scooper it was, but someone in another thread talked about taking his young son to games and getting them involved in MU hoops and it being such an exciting time for him and his family. I love hearing stuff like that! My three grandsons -- 3-year-old twins and a 2-year-old -- like screaming, "We Are Marquette!" Gotta love that, too!
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MuggsyB

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #190 on: March 22, 2023, 07:27:50 PM »
I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.

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frozena pizza

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #191 on: March 22, 2023, 07:38:19 PM »
For sure this season was a huge success.  Yes, it ended in a bit of a thud, but I had this feeling that we were a bit overrated by the end of the year and really didn't have the makeup of a national title contender.  I really just didn't want to lose to Vermont but figured anything past that was going to be tough.

The tournament is a crapshoot.  That's why people love it and there's a reason it's called March Madness.  If you only care about that, you're probably disappointed with a lot of things in life because you define success so narrowly. 

BE regular season and tournament champs, BE player and coach of the year, 17-3 record after getting picked ninth (not sure if you guys heard that tidbit).  For the first time in my life when I wore my Marquette hat random strangers would come up and tell me they loved Shaka and our team.  Going to a game I couldn't believe how much energy there was on game day.  We are back in a huge way and I can't wait for next season.

 

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