MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 06:31:36 PM

Title: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 06:31:36 PM
The game was lost in that stretch where we got like 8 consecutive stops but proceeded to self-destruct with unconscionable turns combined with 3 or 4 wide open missed looks.  We had all of the momentum and these were self-inflicted turns.  This is going to sting for awhile.  Losing always sucks but when you beat yourself that's incredibly frustrating to put it mildly.  Phenomenal year but we really threw away a tremendous opportunity. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: WolfganghisKhan on March 19, 2023, 06:32:11 PM
For as unathletic as we are, we’re not a good shooting team. One or the other has to change.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: GB Warrior on March 19, 2023, 06:33:06 PM
Embarrassing loss. We need more ponies than we have right now.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 19, 2023, 06:33:53 PM
The game was lost in that stretch where we got like 8 consecutive stops but proceeded to self-destruct with unconscionable turns combined with 3 or 4 wide open missed looks.  We had all of the momentum and these were self-inflicted turns.  This is going to sting for awhile.  Losing always sucks but when you beat yourself that's incredibly frustrating to put it mildly.  Phenomenal year but we really threw away a tremendous opportunity.

This.

This is why this loss sucks so bad.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 06:34:17 PM
For as unathletic as we are, we’re not a good shooting team. One or the other has to change.

We had the 4th best offense in the country.  This loss was about the turns and Kolek not being himself. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mugrad_89 on March 19, 2023, 06:34:44 PM
Embarrassing loss. We need more ponies than we have right now.

Good grief - these are the same ponies that beat UConn, Creighton and Xavier twice.  We just played really dumb today.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 06:34:47 PM
Nope.  We need the ponies we have to continue to develop.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: WolfganghisKhan on March 19, 2023, 06:34:53 PM
We had the 4th best offense in the country.  This loss was about the turns and Kolek not being himself.
and how’d that turn out?
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: lawdog77 on March 19, 2023, 06:35:00 PM
Embarrassing loss. We need more ponies than we have right now.
Our guys were good enough to go 17-3 in the Big East, win the BET. Just our worst game of the year. Unfortunately this game happened in the Tourney. MSU had something to do with that.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 19, 2023, 06:35:01 PM
I feel so sick. 

Kam Jones sobbing .. just brutal.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Fred Garvin on March 19, 2023, 06:35:10 PM
Gold should have gotten more playing time today!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 06:36:31 PM
Oso was the only guy who performed today. Rest of the team played scared after taking early 2nd half lead

Really golden opportunity pissed away
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Silent Verbal on March 19, 2023, 06:36:59 PM
That stretch was the most frustrated I’ve been watching basketball in, well, I’m not sure how long.  We needed Kolek to be the man today, and instead he looked like he wouldn’t be able to start for UWM. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2023, 06:37:40 PM
Three things.

1). Poor start by jacking threes

2) MU gets lead, place going crazy.  MU has three wide open threes, all missed. The place would have gone crazy, Izzo would have called timeout, then MSU went on a run. Momentum gone

3). At ten minute mark, up 2, MU went 0 for 9 on straight possessions.  The defense held MSU to six straight possessions.  In the 9 possessions, seven turnovers and two missed threes.

That was ballgame.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 06:37:44 PM
Kolek was incredible this entire season.  Maybe his thumb wasn't right but it really hurts thaf he struggled so much and had all sorts of crazy turns. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Tyler COLEk on March 19, 2023, 06:38:33 PM
Anyone claiming “ponies” are the issue is a fool. If the core group sticks together this is an obvious top 10 team coming into next year. Possibly top 5.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: CountryRoads on March 19, 2023, 06:39:37 PM
Kolek’s struggles were a lot more mental than physical. He hit a massive wall out of nowhere when the tournament started and was a shell of himself. It was weird to see.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 06:39:52 PM
That stretch was the most frustrated I’ve been watching basketball in, well, I’m not sure how long.  We needed Kolek to be the man today, and instead he looked like he wouldn’t be able to start for UWM.

Credit to State’s defense but he was brutal these two games.  And I’m not buying had a thing to do with his non shooting hand thumb.  Very disappointing for a guy who had a sensational year to play that poor at biggest moment of season
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 06:40:03 PM
Anyone claiming “ponies” are the issue is a fool. If the core group sticks together this is an obvious top 10 team coming into next year. Possibly top 5.
Amen.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: statnik on March 19, 2023, 06:40:47 PM
I feel so sick. 

Kam Jones sobbing .. just brutal.

He was the only one who played with poise on offense today, bitterly disappointing it must be to play with teammates who couldn’t execute a simple pass.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
He was the only one who played with poise on offense today, bitterly disappointing it must be to play with teammates who couldn’t execute a simple pass.

Oso played a very solid all around game
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2023, 06:45:06 PM
Anyone claiming “ponies” are the issue is a fool. If the core group sticks together this is an obvious top 10 team coming into next year. Possibly top 5.

Yes, we will see what happens to roster.

MU needs a backup to Oso, someone with beef on them. Gold is a 4 and that guy Keenyan is a walk on. 

MU also needs a backup to Kolek. I foresee Tre Norman in that role as bigger and better offensively than S. Jones.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: PointWarrior on March 19, 2023, 06:45:30 PM
Anyone claiming “ponies” are the issue is a fool. If the core group sticks together this is an obvious top 10 team coming into next year. Possibly top 5.

Disagree - while very talented, this team is missing a bruising center or forwards and a back up PG who can score.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Johnny B on March 19, 2023, 06:45:41 PM
I mean I’m just sad. It’s a sad sad performance. Team is so much better than this trash. Just sucks to end this way. Just depressed to lose to an msu team by 9 who didn’t even play well … ugh
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: statnik on March 19, 2023, 06:45:57 PM
Oso played a very solid all around game

You’re right, he and Kam (Oso at times as well) we’re the only ones who looked themselves on offense.  On defense we got really lucky they couldn’t buy a 3 but still never capitalized.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 06:46:01 PM
Oso played a very solid all around game
I thought OMax was SOTG if MU won.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 19, 2023, 06:46:38 PM
Oso played a very solid all around game

I don't know about this. Oso needed to be a lot more aggressive.  A LOT more.  There was a moment in January where he became a "dude."  Like he finally realized how freaking good he is.  But, he played way too passive today.  We needed him to assert himself and he largely did not. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: DWIGHT on March 19, 2023, 06:46:57 PM
Sucks. Their guards were better today. Hasn't happened much this year, but it happened at the worst time. Lots of credit to MSU.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: AlienWarrior on March 19, 2023, 06:48:27 PM
Yes, it's time to cash in for a beefy transfer down low
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 19, 2023, 06:48:42 PM
Our guys were good enough to go 17-3 in the Big East, win the BET. Just our worst game of the year. Unfortunately this game happened in the Tourney. MSU had something to do with that.
Something, but I'd put it at 25% MSU (mostly Walker's really impressive shooting) and 75% on MU on their incredibly sloppy ball security.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Tyler COLEk on March 19, 2023, 06:48:44 PM
Disagree - while very talented, this team is missing a bruising center or forwards and a back up PG who can score.

Frontcourt depth would be nice, but you’re not going to see many (if any) “bruising” forwards in this system. Get ready for Gold to take a very big leap next year.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2023, 06:49:06 PM
Disagree - while very talented, this team is missing a bruising center or forwards and a back up PG who can score.

We had identical posts, back to back.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 19, 2023, 06:49:16 PM
Sucks. Their guards were better today. Hasn't happened much this year, but it happened at the worst time. Lots of credit to MSU.

Hoggard is a stud.  He's thick as can be and has a great handle.  MSU's only offense largely was to clear out and let him go 1-on-1
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 19, 2023, 06:50:41 PM
I mean I’m just sad. It’s a sad sad performance. Team is so much better than this trash. Just sucks to end this way. Just depressed to lose to an msu team by 9 who didn’t even play well … ugh
Same. It's one thing to get beat by superior play, an entirely different feeling when you shoot yourself in foot, decide that isn't good and proceed to punch yourself in the balls.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 06:50:45 PM
Think about how hard it is to lose a game your opponent is 2-16 from three. This game was so unlike their play all year.  16 f’ing turnovers.  They normally don’t get to 10!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: GB Warrior on March 19, 2023, 06:50:53 PM
Amen.

Surely we don't need another player who can competently handle the point? Surely we don't need someone who can alter any shots at the rim?

This team has been dictating its terms all year, and kudos to Shaka for getting them into position to do so. But clearly this team did not have what it needed to weather the storm. They had remarkably good injury luck - that ran out here. The team got by not getting any oRBS - luck ran out here.

The aforementioned pieces would have increased our margin for error and probably allowed us to steal one in our anomaly game.

I have high hopes for Norman - I think he can be a dude and fast. We have no size to speak of coming in, and no evidence that Itejere is anything other than a garbage time globetrotter.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 06:55:15 PM
Point

This team is not a group of studs. They win by playing team basketball. I have said many times, there will be far more talented teams in the Shaka era.

I am not going to voice my thoughts on what is needed because these guys gave their all for twelve months.

Kudo’s to Shaka and the guys for a great season. There will be time to critique things in the upcoming weeks, tonight I am going to reflect and appreciate a special season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 06:55:26 PM
I don't know about this. Oso needed to be a lot more aggressive.  A LOT more.  There was a moment in January where he became a "dude."  Like he finally realized how freaking good he is.  But, he played way too passive today.  We needed him to assert himself and he largely did not.

I disagree completely. He’s not a stud scorer, nor is that his role. But he finished play’s today when no one else showed up offensively
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Fred Garvin on March 19, 2023, 06:56:49 PM
Point

This team is not a group of studs. They win by playing team basketball. I have said many times, there will be far more talented teams in the Shaka era.

I am not going to voice my thoughts on what is needed because these guys gave their all for twelve months.

Kudo’s to Shaka and the guys for a great season. There will be time to critique things in the upcoming weeks, tonight I am going to reflect and appreciate a special season.


Beautifully said Goose!!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 06:57:23 PM
Surely we don't need another player who can competently handle the point? Surely we don't need someone who can alter any shots at the rim?

This team has been dictating its terms all year, and kudos to Shaka for getting them into position to do so. But clearly this team did not have what it needed to weather the storm. They had remarkably good injury luck - that ran out here. The team got by not getting any oRBS - luck ran out here.

The aforementioned pieces would have increased our margin for error and probably allowed us to steal one in our anomaly game.

I have high hopes for Norman - I think he can be a dude and fast. We have no size to speak of coming in, and no evidence that Itejere is anything other than a garbage time globetrotter.
Jones, Tre, Zaire, Emerson.  As things stand.    Ben Gold with a.full off-season under his belt.  Oso 10 lbs heavier with a foul line jumper.


Barring a mass exodus, the roster is essentially set.  Waiting to see who the one player to leave will be.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 19, 2023, 06:57:34 PM
Point

This team is not a group of studs. They win by playing team basketball. I have said many times, there will be far more talented teams in the Shaka era.

I am not going to voice my thoughts on what is needed because these guys gave their all for twelve months.

Kudo’s to Shaka and the guys for a great season. There will be time to critique things in the upcoming weeks, tonight I am going to reflect and appreciate a special season.

Goose

100%
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 06:58:24 PM
Jones, Tre, Zaire, Emerson.  As things stand.    Ben Gold with a.full off-season under his belt.  Oso 10 lbs heavier with a foul line jumper.


Barring a mass exodus, the roster is essentially set.  Waiting to see who the one player to leave will be.

I really hope Ben Gold is back next year.  Ben Gold the sophomore will be an All-American type player
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 19, 2023, 07:00:18 PM
I disagree completely. He’s not a stud scorer, nor is that his role. But he finished play’s today when no one else showed up offensively

I don't disagree that his role has been a 3rd-4th option offensively, yet I really don't think MSU had an answer for him if they just kept clearing a side and letting him go to work - much the way the did coming out of halftime against Vermont.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MarquetteVol on March 19, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Oso was the only guy who performed today. Rest of the team played scared after taking early 2nd half lead

Really golden opportunity pissed away

OMax gave everything today and played his butt off
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: statnik on March 19, 2023, 07:01:21 PM
I really hope Ben Gold is back next year.  Ben Gold the sophomore will be an All-American type player

Lay off the sauce.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 07:02:15 PM
Lay off the sauce.

Tell me you don’t know ball without telling me you don’t know ball
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: FartyEightHours on March 19, 2023, 07:03:36 PM
Ben Gold an All American?  Well that’d be a helluva leap from a seventh man.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MUEng92 on March 19, 2023, 07:03:47 PM
Ben Gold’s parents don’t even think he could be an All-American next year and it has nothing to do with him not being an American
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: statnik on March 19, 2023, 07:05:45 PM
Tell me you don’t know ball without telling me you don’t know ball

Freshman 8th or 9th man to All American in a season?  I have been a successful evaluator of talent in the past in calling Jae Crowder being the best player on the team back in his junior year coming off the bench.  Gold is nowhere near that level and it will take more than a year to get close to Jae level impact.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 07:06:28 PM
Tell me you don’t know ball without telling me you don’t know ball

No, you’re making a really bold statement. He has to make an enormous jump for your prediction to come true.

Maybe he will but we’re talking about a guy who didn’t play much who flashed at times.  Let’s stop playing I’m the smartest guy on the board.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: frozena pizza on March 19, 2023, 07:09:41 PM
Doesn't change the fact that this was a great season.  We won a bunch of games this year that could have gone either way.  This one went against us.  Sure, we didn't play our best, but neither did Michigan State and if they had we would have lost by 20.  One thing that stands out to me though is that this time of year a lot of games really turn into a grind and both teams struggle to score.  The bigger and more physical teams can just rebound and power through that.  We're not built that way.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 19, 2023, 07:14:28 PM
Ben Gold’s parents don’t even think he could be an All-American next year and it has nothing to do with him not being an American

Dude..Rico was being sarcastic...per usual.  The funny thing is, is that Gold probably has the highest ceiling on this team, and probably was underutilized this year.  If Ben stays at MU 4 years, I fee quite confident he will be an All-Big East player and be on some draft boards.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 07:16:33 PM
Dude..Rico was being sarcastic...per usual.  The funny thing is, is that Gold probably has the highest ceiling on this team, and probably was underutilized this year.  If Ben stays at MU 4 years, I fee quite confident he will be an All-Big East player and be on some draft boards.

I ain’t being sarcastic on this one.  Hyperbolic?  Yes, but you see it with him. Fine, All-American is a stretch but he’s going to take a monster leap if he’s back
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 07:17:17 PM
Yes it was a great season.  Today doesn’t take away one bit from that. 

But we earned a two seed.  First time ever.   And we didn’t make it out of first weekend. That is a golden opportunity lost.  And that hurts big time.  Hopefully we’ll get another chance, but don’t take opportunity we had today for granted like it’ll be no problem to be back again.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 19, 2023, 07:18:25 PM
I ain’t being sarcastic on this one.  Hyperbolic?  Yes, but you see it with him. Fine, All-American is a stretch but he’s going to take a monster leap if he’s back

I agree...but the All-American definitely was hyperbolic.  But the kid has a big upside for sure.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: NickelDimer on March 19, 2023, 07:18:38 PM
Just got done watching after being stuck on unnatural carnal knowledgeing planes all day. Mother unnatural carnal knowledgeing cock sucker of a unnatural carnal knowledgeing game. unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge. My god we could not have played like more unnatural carnal knowledgeing dogcrap than that holy unnatural carnal knowledge
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: WolfganghisKhan on March 19, 2023, 07:19:05 PM
Yes it was a great season.  Today doesn’t take away one bit from that. 

But we earned a two seed.  First time ever.   And we didn’t make it out of first weekend. That is a golden opportunity lost.  And that hurts big time.  Hopefully we’ll get another chance, but don’t take opportunity we had today for granted like it’ll be no problem to be back again.
Well put
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 07:19:55 PM
I can't remember ever being so down that I don't even want to watch the rest of the games tonight. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: CountryRoads on March 19, 2023, 07:20:08 PM
Just got done watching after being stuck on unnatural carnal knowledgeing planes all day. Mother unnatural carnal knowledgeing cock sucker of a unnatural carnal knowledgeing game. unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge. My god we could not have played like more unnatural carnal knowledgeing dogcrap than that holy unnatural carnal knowledge

Well said.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: StillWarriors on March 19, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
I thought OMax was SOTG if MU won.

Completely agree. Played his ass off from start to finish.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: NickelDimer on March 19, 2023, 07:22:54 PM
Kolek was the difference today. He was a disaster. So weird. Nothing to do with his hand. Amazing player. Amazing kid. Amazingly awful game at the worst possible time
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 07:23:24 PM
When those who claim to know ball say we are going to beat MSU by 10+……..I questioned how much they know ball.

Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: IrwinFletcher on March 19, 2023, 07:24:21 PM
Kolek was the difference today. He was a disaster. So weird. Nothing to do with his hand. Amazing player. Amazing kid. Amazingly awful game at the worst possible time

Boy, I wasn't sure but since you definitively said so, I guess it must be true.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
Final Four

You win.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mugrad_89 on March 19, 2023, 07:25:09 PM
When those who claim to know ball say we are going to beat MSU by 10+……..I questioned how much they know ball.

Take away the unforced turnovers and we would have.  But unfortunately we can’t do that.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: muhoops1 on March 19, 2023, 07:25:35 PM
The game was lost in that stretch where we got like 8 consecutive stops but proceeded to self-destruct with unconscionable turns combined with 3 or 4 wide open missed looks.  We had all of the momentum and these were self-inflicted turns.  This is going to sting for awhile.  Losing always sucks but when you beat yourself that's incredibly frustrating to put it mildly.  Phenomenal year but we really threw away a tremendous opportunity.
At that moment I was really lamenting the fact that we didn’t have anyone to drive to the rim strong or step in 3’ and RAK a midrange just to stem the tide.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: NickelDimer on March 19, 2023, 07:25:50 PM
Boy, I wasn't sure but since you definitively said so, I guess it must be true.
You thought him throwing the ball all over the gym was a hand injury? Interesting
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 07:27:39 PM
Final Four

You win.
No….but when you catch all the credit for wins…..you gotta take MSU and Wisky 10+ win predictions when some thought that wasnt going to happen.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: muhoops1 on March 19, 2023, 07:27:54 PM
When those who claim to know ball say we are going to beat MSU by 10+……..I questioned how much they know ball.
MU should have won by 10.  mSU was mediocre tonight, MU was just flat out bad. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 07:30:22 PM
MU should have won by 10.  mSU was mediocre tonight, MU was just flat out bad.
Agreed……Izzo makes teams walk away from the tournament and say how did we play so bad?
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: NickelDimer on March 19, 2023, 07:31:47 PM
Agreed……Izzo makes teams walk away from the tournament and say how did we play so bad?
His good teams do that. This team didn’t do that. This was all on us
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 19, 2023, 07:33:02 PM
I was at the game in 1971 vs tOSU where #14 fouled out. Different circumstances, certainly, but this loss sucks as much major ass as that game. Both teams had FF written all over them. As its said, "the first cut is the deepest," aina?
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Johnny B on March 19, 2023, 07:33:18 PM
Just got done watching after being stuck on unnatural carnal knowledgeing planes all day. Mother unnatural carnal knowledgeing cock sucker of a unnatural carnal knowledgeing game. unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge. My god we could not have played like more unnatural carnal knowledgeing dogcrap than that holy unnatural carnal knowledge
I feel this. Played great all year only to play this damn bad in a big game. Just deflating as hell. Ugh
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 07:34:06 PM
Final Four

I can assure you that I never looked for credit for wins and obviously I rub you the wrong way. You outed me several times for my optimism this season, that is fine.

I have been wrong many times on scoop and likely will many more times. That said, not going to apologize for posting my opinions.

It is funny that after a disappointing end of a great season that is what you wanted to say.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 07:38:39 PM
Yes it was a great season.  Today doesn’t take away one bit from that. 

But we earned a two seed.  First time ever.   And we didn’t make it out of first weekend. That is a golden opportunity lost.  And that hurts big time.  Hopefully we’ll get another chance, but don’t take opportunity we had today for granted like it’ll be no problem to be back again.
Well said…..and #1 in our regional goes down…..oncoming Duke goes down…..No dominant team, etc. that is what really hurts.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 07:39:11 PM
Agreed……Izzo makes teams walk away from the tournament and say how did we play so bad?

I respectfully couldn't agree less with you.  This game had nothing to do with Izzo.   
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Daniel on March 19, 2023, 07:41:59 PM
We had the 4th best offense in the country.  This loss was about the turns and Kolek not being himself.

Not just Kolek.   The team did not pick him up and generally played poorly with costly turnovers, the flagrant, missed open shots etc.  just a bad game for the team at a tough part of the year to have one
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 07:42:42 PM
MU should have won by 10.  mSU was mediocre tonight, MU was just flat out bad.

All they did was capitalize on our worst game of the year by a mile. 

I can’t stand them. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 07:43:46 PM
This game had nothing to do with Izzo.
Just so I’m clear…..you are saying that this game had NOTHING to do with Izzo????
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mugrad_89 on March 19, 2023, 07:44:44 PM
Just so I’m clear…..you are saying that this game had NOTHING to do with Izzo????

Well, he is their coach, so there’s that. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 07:45:18 PM
IMO, MU did not beat themselves, but didn’t do themselves any favors. Inexperience was exposed and they lost the game.

Doc mentioned the ‘71 loss and that was far more painful. This team put themselves in position for a long run and fell short. ‘71 days s still tough one to this day.

For the record, I predicted MU by 25+ back on ‘71
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 07:47:57 PM
Just so I’m clear…..you are saying that this game had NOTHING to do with Izzo????

Zero.  Mich St.shot terribly as well.  Their defense was good but these were primarily self-inflicted mistakes. 

There will likely be three S16 BEast teams.  MU was clearly the best BEast team and at the wrong time played a piss poor overall game. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 07:48:56 PM
Not just Kolek.   The team did not pick him up and generally played poorly with costly turnovers, the flagrant, missed open shots etc.  just a bad game for the team at a tough part of the year to have one

I agree with Muggsy, it does boil down to Kolek. While it’s true no one picked him up, a team only goes as far as their best player.  True in any sport.  Postseason is where they especially have to play like stars to advance.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: warriors141 on March 19, 2023, 07:50:29 PM
the fact that xavier, uconn advancing and creighton in great position while we are headed home adds insult to injury
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 07:55:00 PM
IMO, MU did not beat themselves, but didn’t do themselves any favors. Inexperience was exposed and they lost the game.

Doc mentioned the ‘71 loss and that was far more painful. This team put themselves in position for a long run and fell short. ‘71 days s still tough one to this day.

For the record, I predicted MU by 25+ back on ‘71

I disagree.  We had possession after possession after possession where we had the ball up 2 or 3.  And we kicked the ball away Goose.  8 times in like 12 possessions.  Mich St.  didn't do anything differently than they had all game defensively. We made poor decisions and shot ourselves in the foot.  And frankly we never found our game again once we regained the lead 42-40. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 19, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 07:55:42 PM
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.

First steps and all that jazz
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: WolfganghisKhan on March 19, 2023, 07:56:48 PM
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.
yup
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: JakeBarnes on March 19, 2023, 07:56:51 PM
Disappointing end to the season but what a season it was. Hopefully the team stays largely in tact. I expect a lot of growth this offseason.

A huge thanks to the team! You bring and brought a ton of joy to me this year. One that honestly would have sucked without this team to root for.

On to next year.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2023, 07:59:19 PM
IMO, MU did not beat themselves, but didn’t do themselves any favors. Inexperience was exposed and they lost the game.

Doc mentioned the ‘71 loss and that was far more painful. This team put themselves in position for a long run and fell short. ‘71 days s still tough one to this day.

For the record, I predicted MU by 25+ back on ‘71

I agree the 1971 loss was bad, but started a decade of winning every, single year.  Top of the rankings. Maybe tonights loss can start the same.

If my memory recalls and I may be wrong, I thought you attended MU in early 1980's. If so, was a strong prediction for a very, very young fella. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 08:00:52 PM
the fact that xavier, uconn advancing and creighton in great position while we are headed home adds insult to injury

It further elucidates many points that are being made here. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:00:59 PM
Jake

This team meant a lot to me for personal reasons, and it was the excitement I needed. Shaka’s words and message resonated to me and it felt great to be part of something special.

We will have to have that cigar and bourbon next season. Thanks for bringing extra juice to scoop this season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MUfan12 on March 19, 2023, 08:03:18 PM
Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.

I won't forget this one. Foundation has been set.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: We R Final Four on March 19, 2023, 08:03:58 PM
It further elucidates many points that are being made here.
Opponents have nothing to do with advancing in the tournament….
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: lawdog77 on March 19, 2023, 08:07:53 PM
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 19, 2023, 08:08:22 PM
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.

100%
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: warriors141 on March 19, 2023, 08:08:30 PM
Opponents have nothing to do with advancing in the tournament….

Fully realize this, yet it is undeniable that these teams we have beat all regular season are still alive while we are headed home.

postseason success really defines a great season. we had the opportunity to make a real run and squandered it. massively disappointing.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Johnny B on March 19, 2023, 08:09:40 PM
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.
Hate to say it but a sweet 16 year is more memorable than a big East championship plus 2nd round flameout imo
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Mu8891 on March 19, 2023, 08:09:45 PM
Chitown…

I agree.  I’d gladly give up a BET title for a S16.  Any and every time.


The NCAAT is what counts. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: GB Warrior on March 19, 2023, 08:10:19 PM
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.

Recruits aren't signing up for Big East championships
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 08:10:25 PM
Why play the regular season?
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:11:25 PM
nyg

Yes, I attended MU in early ‘80’s, but had had a family connect dating back to my grade school days. That connection is what made me really love MU basketball.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 19, 2023, 08:11:48 PM
Why play the regular season?

To put yourself in the best possible position to make a run in March.

Marquette did that, two seed, their region was in shambles after day one, everything was set up for a run to the Final 4.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 08:13:07 PM
Opponents have nothing to do with advancing in the tournament….

Of course they do but you're acting  like this is one of Mich St's better teams, they're not.  There are situations where teams shoot lights or totally outplay their opponent.  That's not what happened today.  Now, you can live in la-la-land if you want and say this was some genius coaching job by Izzo but we beat ourselves.  These were unforced mistakes, our best player being unfortunately really bad, and a a stretch  where we crapped the bed when the gane was there for the taking.   Izzo is an all-time great coach but that has basically nothing to do with this game.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 19, 2023, 08:13:33 PM
Kolek was the difference today. He was a disaster. So weird. Nothing to do with his hand. Amazing player. Amazing kid. Amazingly awful game at the worst possible time

Yeah, I don't know about that. If not his hand, then suddenly the stage was too big for him and he put so much pressure on himself that he shat the bed.

Personally, I kind of doubt that the guy that dominated during the pressure of the BET suddenly was so high-strung that he basically sucked against Vermont of all teams. I suspect the thumb injury is a lot worse than MU wanted to let on, though I do think once TK couldn't perform as well as he normally does he got pissed off and pressed way too much and compounded the problem.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 08:14:33 PM
To put yourself in the best possible position to make a run in March.

Marquette did that, two seed, their region was in shambles after day one, everything was set up for a run to the Final 4.

That’s why I’ll remember this season.  Reminds me of what Villanova started doing in 2014 & 2015.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2023, 08:16:49 PM
nyg

Yes, I attended MU in early ‘80’s, but had had a family connect dating back to my grade school days. That connection is what made me really love MU basketball.

That's what I thought. Awesome for a young fella and family. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on March 19, 2023, 08:17:05 PM
To put yourself in the best possible position to make a run in March.

Marquette did that, two seed, their region was in shambles after day one, everything was set up for a run to the Final 4.

This is the part that stings the most. I get we’re excited for the future, but you also have to take full advantage of the present. Our region was up for grabs and because of uncharacteristic and unforced TO’s we failed.

Now, I’d curious to learn more about Tyler’s thumb. Is it a torn ligament? Did the team know of the severity of the injury? Is this why everyone played so tight.. they knew there was 0 Marvin of error. OR we’re the lights just too bright for a young team
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:18:49 PM
nyg

And I was joking about the +25 win against Ohio St., but probably believed it as a second grader.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 08:26:54 PM
Yeah, I don't know about that. If not his hand, then suddenly the stage was too big for him and he put so much pressure on himself that he shat the bed.

Personally, I kind of doubt that the guy that dominated during the pressure of the BET suddenly was so high-strung that he basically sucked against Vermont of all teams. I suspect the thumb injury is a lot worse than MU wanted to let on, though I do think once TK couldn't perform as well as he normally does he got pissed off and pressed way too much and compounded the problem.

Well, this is just speculation but his early fouls imo had a significant impact on his performance.  I definitely agree that he pressed at times.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:30:50 PM
Muggsy

Kolek sucked today and I am sure he knows better than we do. He is captain of this ship and had a bad day. To be concerned about Kolek’s big game ability I think is beyond crazy. He looks like a guy that lives for the big game.

That said, he is going to have a big target on his back next season and he needs guard help. A guard that can play lockdown D and can score. Maybe, there is a guy coming in that can do just that.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 08:32:23 PM
We have guards like that.   
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MarquetteVol on March 19, 2023, 08:33:58 PM
This is the first time in my nearly 30 years of watching MU hoops I feel worse for the kids than I do for myself. Super bummed to not see this team play again until November. And optimistic we return essentially the same squad. But this group played their heart out all year and I just feel for them that today wasn’t indicative of the consistent outstanding play they brought all year long.

That said, we’re ahead of schedule. If a BE Championship and 2 seed is what the 9th place preseason team can accomplish under Coach Smart’s leadership then I think it’s fair to be exceptionally optimistic about the future.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:34:28 PM
tower

Agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 08:39:19 PM
OK.   But one of our other guards was the leading scorer.    The other always guarded the opponent's best guard.  Both have an offseason to improve. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 08:43:21 PM
Muggsy

Kolek sucked today and I am sure he knows better than we do. He is captain of this ship and had a bad day. To be concerned about Kolek’s big game ability I think is beyond crazy. He looks like a guy that lives for the big game.

That said, he is going to have a big target on his back next season and he needs guard help. A guard that can play lockdown D and can score. Maybe, there is a guy coming in that can do just that.

I'm not "concerned" about it and I'm positive he'll be fine moving forward.  I'm just pissed we threw away a golden opportunity. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 08:44:01 PM
That’s why I’ll remember this season.  Reminds me of what Villanova started doing in 2014 & 2015.

Good point.  They had heartbreakers before breaking through.  Hopefully the same is in our future. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on March 19, 2023, 08:44:52 PM
We have guards like that.
In combination sure, but let’s not pretend that our current guards don’t have shortcomings. Stevie great on D, marginal (at best) on O.  Kam great on O, but marginal on D. Chase has a chance to be good at both, not sold on Sean at all. 

Hoping at least one of the newcomers is a little bit more solid on both ends, but will be a frosh so who knows.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MarquetteVol on March 19, 2023, 08:45:57 PM
Of course they do but you're acting  like this is one of Mich St's better teams, they're not.  There are situations where teams shoot lights or totally outplay their opponent.  That's not what happened today.  Now, you can live in la-la-land if you want and say this was some genius coaching job by Izzo but we beat ourselves.  These were unforced mistakes, our best player being unfortunately really bad, and a a stretch  where we crapped the bed when the gane was there for the taking.   Izzo is an all-time great coach but that has basically nothing to do with this game.

I don’t disagree. But I have an awful hard time dwelling too much on this loss. This was the most overachieving Marquette team I can ever remember. Hard to feel too bad that they underachieved in one game against a Hall of Fame coach and a pretty decent team. Was Matean Cleaves or Draymond Green on the floor today? No. But it’s not like MSU is a low major. They scouted us like an NBA team would and we just didn’t have it. Totally sucks. But so proud of this season and this team.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 08:46:03 PM
This is the first time in my nearly 30 years of watching MU hoops I feel worse for the kids than I do for myself. Super bummed to not see this team play again until November. And optimistic we return essentially the same squad. But this group played their heart out all year and I just feel for them that today wasn’t indicative of the consistent outstanding play they brought all year long.

That said, we’re ahead of schedule. If a BE Championship and 2 seed is what the 9th place preseason team can accomplish under Coach Smart’s leadership then I think it’s fair to be exceptionally optimistic about the future.

To play devils advocate, we’re going to be the hunted next year.  We’ll probably be favored to win BE.  A whole different feel they’ll have to learn to play with next year.  Lots of pressure and expectations. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 19, 2023, 08:47:18 PM
To play devils advocate, we’re going to be the hunted next year.  We’ll probably be favored to win BE.  A whole different feel they’ll have to learn to play with next year.  Lots of pressure and expectations.

It’ll be awesome to be hunted.  Expect a lot of churn in the league, especially if Pitino gets one of the gigs.  Pretty excited for it all
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MarquetteVol on March 19, 2023, 08:48:17 PM
To play devils advocate, we’re going to be the hunted next year.  We’ll probably be favored to win BE.  A whole different feel they’ll have to learn to play with next year.  Lots of pressure and expectations.

To be the more devilish advocate, look at the bulletin board material on Twitter for Kolek and the team. The whole country thinks we’re a fraud based on one game. And if these guys improve 1/2 as much this off-season then expectations be dammed. We’re going to roll
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 08:50:23 PM
It’ll be awesome to be hunted.  Expect a lot of churn in the league, especially if Pitino gets one of the gigs.  Pretty excited for it all

I will be too and goal is to be the hunted.  Will be interesting how they respond to the expectations.  It’s not an easy weight to carry.  Look at this year’s North Carolina team. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: IrwinFletcher on March 19, 2023, 08:50:39 PM
OK.   But one of our other guards was the leading scorer.    The other always guarded the opponent's best guard.  Both have an offseason to improve.

We give up too much penetration and allow opponents to get to the rim. Won’t change a lot next year as personnel will be the same, but hoping perimeter defense improves.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:51:28 PM
Muggsy

I am equally disappointed, I was the fxxk head that said we would win by 10+, but realistic. Winning in March is hard, harder for team with no March success in a decade.

I told my wife after the win on Friday, we had two kids graduate college, two kids kids get married, three grandkids welcomed to our family and our kids bought four houses since the last time MU won in NCAA. That puts things in perspective for me.

Building a program is not a straight line. Today is a step backwards and time to get better.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Mu8891 on March 19, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
Vol …

Maybe they roll next year, maybe not.

I hope they do … but you never know
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 08:55:00 PM
Atl Warrior

I agree on your recap of our guards. I think we will see changes next season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 08:56:54 PM
I don’t disagree. But I have an awful hard time dwelling too much on this loss. This was the most overachieving Marquette team I can ever remember. Hard to feel too bad that they underachieved in one game against a Hall of Fame coach and a pretty decent team. Was Matean Cleaves or Draymond Green on the floor today? No. But it’s not like MSU is a low major. They scouted us like an NBA team would and we just didn’t have it. Totally sucks. But so proud of this season and this team.

I get that, truly I do, but expectations for this team changed dramatically once we saw some of our games as early as December.  They changed dramatically once we realized we had one of the best players in the country and a very solid roster overall.   That doesn't mean I'm not proud of these guys, or that I have a tendency to dwell on stuff, but I felt like a deep run was right there for us and you just never know what can happen season to season. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 19, 2023, 08:58:09 PM
Boy, I wasn't sure but since you definitively said so, I guess it must be true.

(About Kolek/Hand injury/poor play today)

He was asked this exact question in the post-game presser.  He said his hand was fine.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: panda on March 19, 2023, 08:59:26 PM
(About Kolek/Hand injury/poor play today)

He was asked this exact question in the post-game presser.  He said his hand was fine.

Pretty clear with his play the past two games that it wasn’t fine. Savvy move to downplay the injury instead of using it as an excuse.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MarquetteVol on March 19, 2023, 08:59:32 PM
Same here, brother. This team was/is special. There wasn’t a team left I didn’t know we could beat. Today was just a hurricane of things going wrong. Single elimination tournaments are a b*#%tch
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MUfan12 on March 19, 2023, 08:59:55 PM
Winning at a high level is hard as fook and it's not gonna get easier.

Just gotta hope the guys keep developing and the chemistry remains rock solid. I feel good about that happening.

It was an opportunity missed, but if channeled the right way could lead to some beautiful things next season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on March 19, 2023, 09:02:10 PM
Pretty clear with his play the past two games that it wasn’t fine. Savvy move to downplay the injury instead of using it as an excuse.

I don’t know about Savvy. If it’s hurt, it’s hurt. You have 9 months to heal. No reason to downplay it…. If it’s actually an injury
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: PointWarrior on March 19, 2023, 09:08:10 PM
Atl Warrior

I agree on your recap of our guards. I think we will see changes next season.


I agree on your agree -  guard play will step up next year
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2023, 09:10:19 PM
I think any starter that returns will start next year.     I think every player has room for improvement and I think they will. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Mu8891 on March 19, 2023, 09:12:01 PM
I really don’t see how his thumb on his non shooting hand being hurt was THAT devastating…

He shot ok … seemed to dribble w / both hands.   He just made awful decisions …

His hand did not get him in foul trouble. And he threw the ball away time after time

I feel bad for him.  It’s gotta suck.
I’m sure he feels terrible… but it was not just his thumb
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 09:12:45 PM
A couple of minor points but do you think the OMAX/Joey play should have been a F1 and was that a goaltending on TyKo's lay-up? 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on March 19, 2023, 09:16:30 PM
I really don’t see how his thumb on his non shooting hand being hurt was THAT devastating…

He shot ok … seemed to dribble w / both hands.   He just made awful decisions …

His hand did not get him in foul trouble. And he threw the ball away time after time

I feel bad for him.  It’s gotta suck.
I’m sure he feels terrible… but it was not just his thumb

He didn’t shoot “ok” he looked freakin terrible out there.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2023, 09:17:03 PM
Just got done watching after being stuck on unnatural carnal knowledgeing planes all day. Mother unnatural carnal knowledgeing cock sucker of a unnatural carnal knowledgeing game. unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge unnatural carnal knowledge. My god we could not have played like more unnatural carnal knowledgeing dogcrap than that holy unnatural carnal knowledge

Well said.  🤣🤣
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mugrad_89 on March 19, 2023, 09:18:10 PM
A couple of minor points but do you think the OMAX/Joey play should have been a F1 and was that a goaltending on TyKo's lay-up?

I thought it was goaltending as I thought the ball got to the glass but it was close.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 09:19:49 PM
I really don’t see how his thumb on his non shooting hand being hurt was THAT devastating…

He shot ok … seemed to dribble w / both hands.   He just made awful decisions …

His hand did not get him in foul trouble. And he threw the ball away time after time

I feel bad for him.  It’s gotta suck.
I’m sure he feels terrible… but it was not just his thumb

I tend to agree with you.  I think he pressed a bit and just wasn't himself.

One more point I'd like to make.  When we changed the tempo early in the 2H I thought we were on our way to controlling the game.  Instead, we mistakenly played too fast in our half-court sets.   
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 19, 2023, 09:20:09 PM
A couple of minor points but do you think the OMAX/Joey play should have been a F1 and was that a goaltending on TyKo's lay-up?

Well he half strangled Hauser, so yeah if that isn’t an F1 nothing is.

Like Steratore said, goaltending or not was extremely close call.  I think it was though, looks it grazed the glass and then blocked away.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: NickelDimer on March 19, 2023, 09:22:10 PM
A couple of minor points but do you think the OMAX/Joey play should have been a F1 and was that a goaltending on TyKo's lay-up?
Looked like a GT and a very big blown call if it was. Game changer
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 09:22:47 PM
The fact that we were 9-25 from 2pt range is crazy. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2023, 09:23:09 PM
Muggsy

I am equally disappointed, I was the fxxk head that said we would win by 10+, but realistic. Winning in March is hard, harder for team with no March success in a decade.

I told my wife after the win on Friday, we had two kids graduate college, two kids kids get married, three grandkids welcomed to our family and our kids bought four houses since the last time MU won in NCAA. That puts things in perspective for me.

Building a program is not a straight line. Today is a step backwards and time to get better.


Goose:

Not a step back.  Just a reset.

The future is bright!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 09:28:44 PM
Ziggy

No doubt. How’s the weather?
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 19, 2023, 09:30:56 PM
Well he half strangled Hauser, so yeah if that isn’t an F1 nothing is.

Like Steratore said, goaltending or not was extremely close call.  I think it was though, looks it grazed the glass and then blocked away.

Ya....I guess that's right.  Unless there is a unusual auxiliary rule regarding epistolary former team members.  :)
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: muwarrior97 on March 19, 2023, 09:35:39 PM
The game was lost in that stretch where we got like 8 consecutive stops but proceeded to self-destruct with unconscionable turns combined with 3 or 4 wide open missed looks.  We had all of the momentum and these were self-inflicted turns.  This is going to sting for awhile.  Losing always sucks but when you beat yourself that's incredibly frustrating to put it mildly.  Phenomenal year but we really threw away a tremendous opportunity.

Yup Yup Yup, this one going to hurt for awhile, this team was special :(
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Ziggy

No doubt. How’s the weather?

80* and beautiful.  Baked like a Lobster.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 19, 2023, 09:42:33 PM
Ziggy

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: brewcity77 on March 20, 2023, 07:38:15 AM
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.

In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on March 20, 2023, 07:43:33 AM
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 20, 2023, 07:50:04 AM
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff.

It's making it impossible right now. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 20, 2023, 08:08:14 AM
One thing to remember, MU was only a slight favorite yesterday. If they were a 10+, like I predicted, I definitely would be far more disappointed. It basically was a pick game in Vegas and was a one point game with Omax shooting free throw to tie under minutes to go.

IMO, the last couple of minutes was the first time all season they let negative emotions carryover to their play. I am hoping it is another lesson to learn from going into next season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 20, 2023, 08:08:38 AM
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

I generally agree with you.  2011 won't be remembered more fondly or as a better team.  The only way however to erase the disappointment of yesterday is for these guys to come back. have another stellar season, and a strong NCAA tournament. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 20, 2023, 08:12:36 AM
One thing to remember, MU was only a slight favorite yesterday. If they were a 10+, like I predicted, I definitely would be far more disappointed. It basically was a pick game in Vegas and was a one point game with Omax shooting free throw to tie under minutes to go.

True.  This was a much better team than last season and one of best teans in 20 yrs. 

IMO, the last couple of minutes was the first time all season they let negative emotions carryover to their play. I am hoping it is another lesson to learn from going into next season.

To be honest though we were really fortunate not to get blown out in the 1H.  And Michigan State's 3pt shooting was abysmal the entire game with a lot of open looks.  I thought both teans didn't play particularly well.  It was a very unusual statistical game when you look at both teans. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 20, 2023, 08:19:36 AM
Muggsy

We got blown out in the first half last year and this year they did not fold. It was a game they definitely could have won, but didn’t. No moral victory, just a fact. They played poorly and it cost them a chance to move on to NYC.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: cheebs09 on March 20, 2023, 08:29:19 AM
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

This.

I looked it up and 62% of 2 seeds make the Sweet Sixteen. That number is lower than I thought and giving me some solace.

This team provided so many great moments this year, to reduce it to one crummy game would be a shame.

We were a young team this year. If we can keep most players and they gain experience and develop, we could be set up for some special years.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: rgoode57 on March 20, 2023, 08:30:02 AM
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on March 20, 2023, 08:43:46 AM
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: CTWarrior on March 20, 2023, 08:51:47 AM
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.
I agree with this.  I was watching Kentucky play Kansas State and was thinking we would have a very hard time beating either of them.  With the roster we have, we have to turn people over and shoot well from the perimeter to win against the physical teams from the Big 12 or SEC, because rebounding and defending/scoring in the interior will be tough.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 20, 2023, 08:57:14 AM
rgoode

My level of confidence going into next weekend was far lower than yesterday. Both KState and Kentucky would have been a big challenge and TN a real challenge.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: jfp61 on March 20, 2023, 08:59:30 AM
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff.

It was tied for our 4th worst game of the year.

1. UConn
2. Wisconsin
3. Chicago St
4. Miss st and Mich St.

It happens. And if Michigan State keeps winning it will drop to 5th.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 20, 2023, 09:09:45 AM
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MUfan12 on March 20, 2023, 09:15:11 AM
Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.

Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 20, 2023, 09:22:12 AM
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.

They were a two seed…They massively underachieved.

Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Look at the Warriors 73-9 year. Nobody cares about that record because they didn’t win the title.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 20, 2023, 09:24:54 AM
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.

If Tennessee plays like they did Saturday, embracing their physicality, they win the region. Their offense still disappears for stretches, but they were impressive Saturday
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MUfan12 on March 20, 2023, 09:31:37 AM
Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Depends on what happens next, honestly. If they follow it up with a nice run next season, I'll look at this year as the one that set the foundation.

A lot of the angst on here isn't unlike what happened after we lost to Tulsa in 2002. Those guys said that game fueled them the following March.

I guess where I come from is that this felt like a year too soon for this group. In hindsight, they went from hunter, to hunted, to anointed in the course of one season. It's a lot to process for a young team. They made the first transition fine, but the next one was a bridge too far.

Again, no denying this is a missed opportunity. But sometimes crap happens in single elimination tournaments.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: CTWarrior on March 20, 2023, 12:49:29 PM
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.
For me, if we play well and just get beat, that is a lot easier to live with than when we just played poorly against a team we should beat most nights.  This team played well all season and it is very disappointing the way it ended.

But I do agree that I will look back on this team as one of my very favorite MU teams.  This collection of players should not have won the Big East regular season or tournament championships but did it in pretty convincing style.  After many years of that other guy it was great to root for a team that was more than the sum of its parts.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 20, 2023, 09:00:46 PM
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.

Agree, especially having been in NYC.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 20, 2023, 09:19:12 PM
Agree, especially having been in NYC.

I was there as well and would still trade it for a second weekend appearance
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 20, 2023, 09:24:51 PM
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.

I disagree having watched KSU/Kentucky as well as the other rd of 32 teams. We didn't fluke our way to a BEast title and a BET title.  Winning in Omaha, and dropping UCONN and XU wasn't some divine intervention.  We were that good this year and won 19/21 for a reason.   
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: brewcity77 on March 22, 2023, 10:25:24 AM
They were a two seed…They massively underachieved.

Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Look at the Warriors 73-9 year. Nobody cares about that record because they didn’t win the title.

Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on March 22, 2023, 11:13:02 AM
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

Yup. Incredible season and accomplishments.

If everyone returns I think then we can start to expect more. I wont sit here and whine or complain about not making a Final Four next year but the expectation should be that they can get there because I thought they could have this year.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Warrior Code on March 22, 2023, 11:20:51 AM
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!

After letting it sit a few days, I think this is where I am. I cared less under Wojo than I had at any point since I first started following Marquette basketball. After a while, the wins felt like more of a relief than a joy and the losses always felt somehow inevitable.

But this year... this year was a lot of fun. And the future is looking bright.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 22, 2023, 11:28:44 AM
brew

I agree completely.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Scoop Snoop on March 22, 2023, 12:31:47 PM
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.


It was a memorable year and despite the L to MSU, it was a huge success. I'll enjoy recalling this season as a whole rather than dwelling on the losses. Since 67 of the 68 teams will end up losing (and yes, the loser in the title game will be "massively disappointed"), it boggles my mind how anyone can place all their hopes in the tourney results.
 
Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.

So be it. Sounds like a curse to me. After 35 games, you have declared the season as a failure because of the 36th, correct? Or am I misinterpreting you? I see our season as a massive success, you see it as a "massive disappointment". If I shared your opinion, I would give up being a fan of any team and just see how things play out in March.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 22, 2023, 12:37:41 PM
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

I agree with all of this. In 10 years I will fondly remember the season that they won the outright Big East Title and the BET and set the program record for wins in a season. I will also remember being disappointed that they didn't make it out of first weekend in the tournament, but that will be secondary.

As I told my wife on the drive home from Columbus on Sunday: This Marquette season is one of the most enjoyable sports seasons I can remember in my long life as a sports fan. I had a lot of fun watching this team and their games. I really like the players and coaches. I've had a lot of great and memorable experiences as a sports fan -- my favorite teams have won Superbowls, the World Series, an NBA title, and NCAA Football championships (they've made it to the final games/series on other occasions). I can't honestly say that I enjoyed any of those seasons more than I enjoyed this basketball season with Marquette. It was special. Of course I wish they were still playing and we'd be celebrating the National Championship, but it didn't happen. But it was really, really fun while it lasted. And I will always remember this season fondly. I will have more and better memories of this season than of any prior Marquette season (disclaimer: I wasn't a Marquette fan until I enrolled in 1987). This includes 2003.

I sincerely hope it was just the start of a prolonged period of success.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 22, 2023, 02:51:04 PM
It was a memorable year and despite the L to MSU, it was a huge success. I'll enjoy recalling this season as a whole rather than dwelling on the losses. Since 67 of the 68 teams will end up losing (and yes, the loser in the title game will be "massively disappointed"), it boggles my mind how anyone can place all their hopes in the tourney results.

I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 22, 2023, 02:59:18 PM
I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.

Fair points
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: CTWarrior on March 22, 2023, 03:28:15 PM
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!
100%.  The reason I was so angry and frustrated after Sunday's loss is because this is the first time since 2013 we entered the tournament with a team that I thought could potentially make a run.  I'm not used to having high hopes dashed in the tournament.  You have to have hopes to have them dashed.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: LAZER on March 22, 2023, 03:56:19 PM
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.
Yes it would matter a lot more if they made the Elite 8 this year.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: wisblue on March 22, 2023, 05:45:51 PM
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say, especially that this season will be more memorable than 2011.

But I’m puzzled by the comment that the only game you’re concerned with winning is the one on the first Monday in April.

I’ll probably be accused for the umpteenth time of being  in the COLE, but I have to think that the over/under on MU National Championships over the next 25 years (longer than my current life expectancy) is 0.5, and under would be the best bet.

Winning national championships is hard for anyone, but it’s especially hard for an institution like Marquette and it’s only going to get harder in the NIL era. In my book, this was an entertaining and exciting season that will be memorable no matter what happens in the future. Looking back, fans might appreciate more how special this season was.

I have said before this season that I would rather see MU win a regular season title than make it to the Sweet 16 after a season of finishing in the middle of the conference like in 2011. I’ve also thought that it would be fun to see MU in a BET title game and win one. The way I feel about this season just confirms that, especially as the immediate pain from Sunday’s gut punch begins to subside.

Maybe the day will come when conference championships become old hat for MU like they are for programs like Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, et al. But, until then, I’m not going to shrug them off as meaningless if the team fails to make the Final Four.

Coming into this tournament I believed that MU was capable of beating anyone in the tournament, and that’s about the best I would ever expect. But you also have to recognize in this age of parity that there were at least a couple dozen teams in the field that were capable of beating them. That being the case, it was very likely that the tournament was eventually going to end with a disappointment sooner or later. It would have been nice for it to come later, or not come at all.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: wisblue on March 22, 2023, 05:48:57 PM
I agree with all of this. In 10 years I will fondly remember the season that they won the outright Big East Title and the BET and set the program record for wins in a season. I will also remember being disappointed that they didn't make it out of first weekend in the tournament, but that will be secondary.

As I told my wife on the drive home from Columbus on Sunday: This Marquette season is one of the most enjoyable sports seasons I can remember in my long life as a sports fan. I had a lot of fun watching this team and their games. I really like the players and coaches. I've had a lot of great and memorable experiences as a sports fan -- my favorite teams have won Superbowls, the World Series, an NBA title, and NCAA Football championships (they've made it to the final games/series on other occasions). I can't honestly say that I enjoyed any of those seasons more than I enjoyed this basketball season with Marquette. It was special. Of course I wish they were still playing and we'd be celebrating the National Championship, but it didn't happen. But it was really, really fun while it lasted. And I will always remember this season fondly. I will have more and better memories of this season than of any prior Marquette season (disclaimer: I wasn't a Marquette fan until I enrolled in 1987). This includes 2003.

I sincerely hope it was just the start of a prolonged period of success.

Nice.

Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: brewcity77 on March 22, 2023, 05:59:17 PM
But I’m puzzled by the comment that the only game you’re concerned with winning is the one on the first Monday in April.

I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: Goose on March 22, 2023, 06:02:59 PM
Brew

You are spot on again. I am with you 100% of the way. Nothing in life is easy, especially greatness. MU can win a NC. It might never happen again, but that is why I am so vested in the process as well.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on March 22, 2023, 06:03:14 PM
I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.

I feel the same and I didn't go to Marquette. Donated to the NIL fund for the 1st time last night and bought 3 NIL TShirts from the site PaintTouches sent out.

I'm as bought in as I can be right now.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: mugrad_89 on March 22, 2023, 06:09:12 PM
I enjoy the process. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. But at the end of the day, what I want to see is a Marquette National Championship. It's one of two sports trophies that I care about I have yet to see my teams claim. Watching Villanova win two in the last decade only reinforced what I always believed since I was a student during the Final Four run: a National Championship is possible at Marquette.

It requires the right coach, the right players, and the right timing. This year we had two out of three. We missed on the timing. Our worst game came at the worst possible time. Play our average game and we beat MSU comfortably. This is year two. My belief is that we are going to be a staple at the top of the Big East for the next 10-15 years. I think we are going to get a lot of kicks at the NC can over Shaka's time here. All we need is the right timing to get that can to fall over once. That's what I want to see.

For me, it's not high expectations or low expectations, it's about aspiration. I aspire to this being a National Championship program. I am certain the staff and players want the same. That's why I donate, why I attend games, and why I cheer. Maybe I'll go to my grave disappointed. But I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it if it does happen.

This x1000 - we have the right coach and the talent level is only going to get better.  I have  not been this optimistic about the trajectory of the program in a long time.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: wisblue on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 PM
There are a lot of posters here who would have been quite miserable during the McGuire era until 1977.

There was a lot less competition in those days because MU essentially got a pass into the Sweet 16 with an opening game against the MAC or OVC winner, but they had a lot of problems in the round of 16 against the SEC and/or Big10 champs.

It’s ironic that the championship came in a year in which MU lost more games than they had in 10 years, and was in serious danger of missing the tournament.

I don’t see being excited about conference championships while hoping for a national title (no matter how unlikely it is) to be mutually exclusive feelings.

But, what I’m hearing here is some people who seem to be saying that they would feel better about this season if MU had lost the late season games to Xavier and Creighton and finished in third place in the Big East, then lost in the first round of the BET but won two games in the NCAA before bowing out. I definitely do not feel that way about it.
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MU82 on March 22, 2023, 07:08:38 PM
Great posts, brew.

Being disappointed about the season's sudden end -- as I'm sure Shaka and the players are -- while also having enjoyed the season more than any other in 2 decades are not mutually exclusive thoughts. The dual Big East titles had me bursting with Marquette pride, while I'm definitely bummed about the ending. It left all of us wanting more, and that's sports.

Marquette friends of mine who hadn't talked much about the team in years -- and even a few who don't particularly like basketball -- were texting me and each other all season long about how much they loved this team. Shaka and his players have brought fans like them all the way back. That's been one of the best parts of all this.

I can't even remember which Scooper it was, but someone in another thread talked about taking his young son to games and getting them involved in MU hoops and it being such an exciting time for him and his family. I love hearing stuff like that! My three grandsons -- 3-year-old twins and a 2-year-old -- like screaming, "We Are Marquette!" Gotta love that, too!
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: MuggsyB on March 22, 2023, 07:27:50 PM
I don't think anyone has declared the whole season a massive disappointment, only the fact that MU couldn't live up to the fantastic 2 seed they deserved after a fantastic season.   I also understand why fans want to say the BE championships were more important (they were a lot of fun), but coaches at this level keep/lose jobs based on tourney success.

As for how "we" will remember this season, I think that depends on how following seasons go.  If Marquette can replicate the magic they had most of the year, and have a similar season next year (with hopefully better tourney results) then it will be the year that lead to greater things.  If there's an inexplicable step back next year, it'll be the year that could have been.  Only time will tell.

Well said Rocky.  Although right now I'm still grieving. 
Title: Re: Beyond Painful
Post by: frozena pizza on March 22, 2023, 07:38:19 PM
For sure this season was a huge success.  Yes, it ended in a bit of a thud, but I had this feeling that we were a bit overrated by the end of the year and really didn't have the makeup of a national title contender.  I really just didn't want to lose to Vermont but figured anything past that was going to be tough.

The tournament is a crapshoot.  That's why people love it and there's a reason it's called March Madness.  If you only care about that, you're probably disappointed with a lot of things in life because you define success so narrowly. 

BE regular season and tournament champs, BE player and coach of the year, 17-3 record after getting picked ninth (not sure if you guys heard that tidbit).  For the first time in my life when I wore my Marquette hat random strangers would come up and tell me they loved Shaka and our team.  Going to a game I couldn't believe how much energy there was on game day.  We are back in a huge way and I can't wait for next season.