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Author Topic: Beyond Painful  (Read 13208 times)

brewcity77

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #150 on: March 20, 2023, 07:38:15 AM »
I would trade all regular season accolades for a second weekend run in March every single year.

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, Conference titles are very forgettable.

In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.
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Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #151 on: March 20, 2023, 07:43:33 AM »
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff. 

MuggsyB

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #152 on: March 20, 2023, 07:50:04 AM »
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff.

It's making it impossible right now. 

Goose

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #153 on: March 20, 2023, 08:08:14 AM »
One thing to remember, MU was only a slight favorite yesterday. If they were a 10+, like I predicted, I definitely would be far more disappointed. It basically was a pick game in Vegas and was a one point game with Omax shooting free throw to tie under minutes to go.

IMO, the last couple of minutes was the first time all season they let negative emotions carryover to their play. I am hoping it is another lesson to learn from going into next season.

MuggsyB

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #154 on: March 20, 2023, 08:08:38 AM »
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

I generally agree with you.  2011 won't be remembered more fondly or as a better team.  The only way however to erase the disappointment of yesterday is for these guys to come back. have another stellar season, and a strong NCAA tournament. 

MuggsyB

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #155 on: March 20, 2023, 08:12:36 AM »
One thing to remember, MU was only a slight favorite yesterday. If they were a 10+, like I predicted, I definitely would be far more disappointed. It basically was a pick game in Vegas and was a one point game with Omax shooting free throw to tie under minutes to go.

True.  This was a much better team than last season and one of best teans in 20 yrs. 

IMO, the last couple of minutes was the first time all season they let negative emotions carryover to their play. I am hoping it is another lesson to learn from going into next season.

To be honest though we were really fortunate not to get blown out in the 1H.  And Michigan State's 3pt shooting was abysmal the entire game with a lot of open looks.  I thought both teans didn't play particularly well.  It was a very unusual statistical game when you look at both teans. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 08:52:32 AM by MuggsyB »

Goose

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2023, 08:19:36 AM »
Muggsy

We got blown out in the first half last year and this year they did not fold. It was a game they definitely could have won, but didn’t. No moral victory, just a fact. They played poorly and it cost them a chance to move on to NYC.

cheebs09

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2023, 08:29:19 AM »
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

This.

I looked it up and 62% of 2 seeds make the Sweet Sixteen. That number is lower than I thought and giving me some solace.

This team provided so many great moments this year, to reduce it to one crummy game would be a shame.

We were a young team this year. If we can keep most players and they gain experience and develop, we could be set up for some special years.

rgoode57

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #158 on: March 20, 2023, 08:30:02 AM »
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.

Ellenson Guerrero

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #159 on: March 20, 2023, 08:43:46 AM »
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!
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CTWarrior

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #160 on: March 20, 2023, 08:51:47 AM »
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.
I agree with this.  I was watching Kentucky play Kansas State and was thinking we would have a very hard time beating either of them.  With the roster we have, we have to turn people over and shoot well from the perimeter to win against the physical teams from the Big 12 or SEC, because rebounding and defending/scoring in the interior will be tough.
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Goose

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #161 on: March 20, 2023, 08:57:14 AM »
rgoode

My level of confidence going into next weekend was far lower than yesterday. Both KState and Kentucky would have been a big challenge and TN a real challenge.

jfp61

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #162 on: March 20, 2023, 08:59:30 AM »
The disappointment of yesterday doesn’t erase what was an amazing season and all of those accomplishments.

Not getting to the 2nd weekend because we played perhaps our worst game of the year, which IMO was largely self-inflicted, is making it more difficult to focus on all the great stuff.

It was tied for our 4th worst game of the year.

1. UConn
2. Wisconsin
3. Chicago St
4. Miss st and Mich St.

It happens. And if Michigan State keeps winning it will drop to 5th.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #163 on: March 20, 2023, 09:09:45 AM »
In the moment, I get this. In the long term, it's ridiculous. The idea that 11-seed 2011 making a Sweet 16 will be a more memorable season than this because of one win is silly.

This team was better than 2011 or 2013. In the past 20 years, this is at worst #4, with 2003, 2012, and healthy 2009 the other contenders. We've hung multiple Big East banners, we've broke the NCAA winless streak, this is a massively successful year by any measure and anyone feeling otherwise needs some damn perspective.

We'll see how the summer goes, but come November this is our league. Parish said last night this could be the preseason #1 if everyone comes back. This is the end of 2023, but it's only the end of the beginning. Seashells and motherf**cking balloons.

Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.

MUfan12

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #164 on: March 20, 2023, 09:15:11 AM »
Guess it really just depends on the person then. Like I said I’ve never really given a flying you know what about conference titles. It’s just not something that’s ever interested me, was it a successful year overall? Sure.

But I want March success. And that’s always the way I’ve viewed it. Again, just my opinion but not something I’m gonna agree with you on.

It’s such a massive disappointment getting bounced in the first weekend.

Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #165 on: March 20, 2023, 09:22:12 AM »
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.

They were a two seed…They massively underachieved.

Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Look at the Warriors 73-9 year. Nobody cares about that record because they didn’t win the title.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #166 on: March 20, 2023, 09:24:54 AM »
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.

If Tennessee plays like they did Saturday, embracing their physicality, they win the region. Their offense still disappears for stretches, but they were impressive Saturday
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MUfan12

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #167 on: March 20, 2023, 09:31:37 AM »
Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Depends on what happens next, honestly. If they follow it up with a nice run next season, I'll look at this year as the one that set the foundation.

A lot of the angst on here isn't unlike what happened after we lost to Tulsa in 2002. Those guys said that game fueled them the following March.

I guess where I come from is that this felt like a year too soon for this group. In hindsight, they went from hunter, to hunted, to anointed in the course of one season. It's a lot to process for a young team. They made the first transition fine, but the next one was a bridge too far.

Again, no denying this is a missed opportunity. But sometimes crap happens in single elimination tournaments.

CTWarrior

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #168 on: March 20, 2023, 12:49:29 PM »
Then you're going to be disappointed far more than you're happy. It's really hard to have sustained success in March, which is why only a handful of programs can do it year over year.

I hope MU can get to that level, but in the meantime, I'll look back on this season and the moments it provided with great fondness.
For me, if we play well and just get beat, that is a lot easier to live with than when we just played poorly against a team we should beat most nights.  This team played well all season and it is very disappointing the way it ended.

But I do agree that I will look back on this team as one of my very favorite MU teams.  This collection of players should not have won the Big East regular season or tournament championships but did it in pretty convincing style.  After many years of that other guy it was great to root for a team that was more than the sum of its parts.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 03:25:00 PM by CTWarrior »
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Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #169 on: March 20, 2023, 09:00:46 PM »
So if Creighton loses next game, you would take their season over ours? I would rather have the BE regular season , BET title, and a second round flameout over a third place season and losing in the sweet 16.

Agree, especially having been in NYC.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #170 on: March 20, 2023, 09:19:12 PM »
Agree, especially having been in NYC.

I was there as well and would still trade it for a second weekend appearance

MuggsyB

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #171 on: March 20, 2023, 09:24:51 PM »
Someone said earlier in this thread that the East region was up for grabs and there for the taking. Whoever said that obviously did not watch either Tennessee or Kansas State play. I am not at all certain that MU, at their best, would beat KSU and I am pretty sure they would not beat Tennessee.

I am as disappointed as anyone about the game yesterday, but I give MSU more credit than a lot of you. No, it is not Izzo's best team by a long shot, but they played well yesterday, especially on defense. Maybe 6 of our 16 turnovers were unforced, but that does not mean that MSU's defense had nothing to do with them. And, MSU almost completely took the paint away from us. Yes, we played poorly, but a good portion of that was due to MSU. I give them credit and hope they win the region now that they have beaten us.

As far as the season goes, it would have been great to get to the S16. But, I think this team went as far as it could go this year. Maybe on a different day they would have beaten MSU, but, in reality, this was not a Final Four team. However, it was a team that gave all of us a magical season, generated a ton of positive buzz for MU, and completely reinvigorated the MU fan base. Thanks to all of them for that.  They are a special group of guys.

I am not going to let one bad game spoil an otherwise great season, and I very much look forward to next season.

I disagree having watched KSU/Kentucky as well as the other rd of 32 teams. We didn't fluke our way to a BEast title and a BET title.  Winning in Omaha, and dropping UCONN and XU wasn't some divine intervention.  We were that good this year and won 19/21 for a reason.   

brewcity77

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #172 on: March 22, 2023, 10:25:24 AM »
They were a two seed…They massively underachieved.

Honestly, do you see yourself looking back on 5-10 years being like “man that team that set a school record in wins was great, but it’s okay they didn’t get past the second round”

Look at the Warriors 73-9 year. Nobody cares about that record because they didn’t win the title.

Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.
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GoldenEagles03

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #173 on: March 22, 2023, 11:13:02 AM »
Probably just wired different, but I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. School record for wins, first outright Big East title, first Big East tourney title, first NCAA win in 10 years, that's a massive overachievement on the season expectations that even I had, and I was about as optimistic as anyone preseason.

Here's the thing when it comes to "March success." In the long run, there is only one game I'm really concerned with winning, and that's played on the first Monday in April. Final Fours and Sweet 16s are nice and all, but it's all about cutting nets in April, not cutting nets in March. I'll enjoy all the banners along the way, but unless we are building to a National Championship, it's all meaningless. If they won two more games and got to an Elite 8 but still lost, would it matter more? Marginally, but I'll take this season over 2011 every single time and it's not even close. This team was also better than 2013 and I don't think it's particularly close, and I will remember this season more fondly than 2013. One bad game in March doesn't change the emotions or the celebrations we've had for the past 4 months.

I also feel that this program is significantly closer to cutting those final nets than they were at the start of the year. This isn't an overnight process, it's a long-term endeavor. Yes, I would rather still be playing. I would rather have more success. But by any measure, this year's success exceeded everyone's expectations and maligning or belaboring this season or what didn't happen is pretty much pointless. Keep going for a National Championship. That's the only win that really matters.

Yup. Incredible season and accomplishments.

If everyone returns I think then we can start to expect more. I wont sit here and whine or complain about not making a Final Four next year but the expectation should be that they can get there because I thought they could have this year.
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Warrior Code

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Re: Beyond Painful
« Reply #174 on: March 22, 2023, 11:20:51 AM »
Keeping in mind today that the pain is a positive sign. My apathy from the Wojo years is gone. We have our team back. We have reason to hope again!

After letting it sit a few days, I think this is where I am. I cared less under Wojo than I had at any point since I first started following Marquette basketball. After a while, the wins felt like more of a relief than a joy and the losses always felt somehow inevitable.

But this year... this year was a lot of fun. And the future is looking bright.
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