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Author Topic: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason  (Read 17875 times)

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2023, 03:30:27 PM »
I look at it this way, if this Carter news confirms the rumblings that existed about character issues around him, this at least helps address that risk.

The value of the number 1 pick is who wants it and what price they’ll pay. Sure, you’d want a stud defensive lineman, but the Bears have so many needs. If they move to say 7, and pick up a bunch of assets and draft Skoronski in the process, I’m good with that. It’s obviously much better that this news came out now than closer to the draft.

Sure, sure. The Bears are still in a good spot. But the narrative since the Texans knocked off the Colts in Week 18 has been that the Bears can trade down, add picks and still get one of Carter or Anderson. This complicates that, and I don't think people will be just as excited about Skoronski or Lukas Van Ness.

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2023, 04:05:22 PM »
Sure, sure. The Bears are still in a good spot. But the narrative since the Texans knocked off the Colts in Week 18 has been that the Bears can trade down, add picks and still get one of Carter or Anderson. This complicates that, and I don't think people will be just as excited about Skoronski or Lukas Van Ness.

Given the bears history in recent drafts, I’m willing to bet a lot of bears fans won’t be excited until they see dudes perform, regardless of who it is
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DegenerateDish

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2023, 05:30:31 PM »
Sure, sure. The Bears are still in a good spot. But the narrative since the Texans knocked off the Colts in Week 18 has been that the Bears can trade down, add picks and still get one of Carter or Anderson. This complicates that, and I don't think people will be just as excited about Skoronski or Lukas Van Ness.

For sure, you’re not wrong, most fans will look at it that way, and ideally yes, you’d trade down and get a potential star d lineman. There’s still legit questions on Will Anderson’s ceiling (last year wasn’t as productive). I think there’s better value in collecting as many guys who can be productive starters as possible right now.

No dispute though that a potential top five pick falling through his own fault does indeed complicate things for a few teams, including Chicago.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2023, 05:43:11 PM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/03/01/nflpa-report-cards-8-most-alarming-findings/11375436002/

LOL, the Cardinals charge their players for dinners and off-season meals.
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WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2023, 09:42:32 PM »
For sure, you’re not wrong, most fans will look at it that way, and ideally yes, you’d trade down and get a potential star d lineman. There’s still legit questions on Will Anderson’s ceiling (last year wasn’t as productive). I think there’s better value in collecting as many guys who can be productive starters as possible right now.

No dispute though that a potential top five pick falling through his own fault does indeed complicate things for a few teams, including Chicago.
Or you could say the value of the #1 pick has gone up due to fewer options?

Jockey

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2023, 10:45:59 PM »
Or you could say the value of the #1 pick has gone up due to fewer options?

I think the value of the pick revolves around QBs. Those option are still the same. The value of the #3 & #4 picks have probably dropped, though.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2023, 11:35:01 PM »
I think the value of the pick revolves around QBs. Those option are still the same. The value of the #3 & #4 picks have probably dropped, though.

I agree with this. If the Bears just don’t get anything they view as a decent offer and stay at 1, my guess is they go Will Anderson. Then if you’re Arizona at 3, you’re stuck most likely the same way the Bears are (no one really wants to move up). You could argue Arizona is the team most impacted by a potential Carter free fall.

MU82

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2023, 07:56:38 AM »
The Panthers, who are interested in Carr, also say they like several of the QBs who will be drafted. According to the Charlotte Observer, they have interviewed, Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson, Hooker and Duggan at the combine.

The Panthers' GM also acknowledged that he could trade up to draft a QB.
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Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2023, 09:52:48 AM »
I'm starting to wonder just how far Carter drops. Given that these are misdemeanor charges and getting this resolved prior to the draft will be a priority, I can imagine him taking a plea to one of the charges, getting the other dropped and taking a sentence involving probation and community service.
If that happens, he probably stays in the top 10. Might be tough to pick him in the top 5, but I could see Detroit biting at #6, Atlanta at #8 or Philly at #10, where he'd be an ideal replacement for Javon Hargrave.
Vegas probably can't take him at #7, given the Henry Ruggs situation.

lawdog77

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2023, 10:33:50 AM »
It's bad to say it, but Carter leaving the scene is probably a good move for him. Otherwise, he may be looking at a felony DUI in addition to reckless driving and racing.
According to ESPN:
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Wednesday that Carter was present at the scene of the crash and later provided shifting accounts of the incident to police.

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2023, 11:26:25 AM »
According to ESPN:
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Wednesday that Carter was present at the scene of the crash and later provided shifting accounts of the incident to police.

Never talk to the cops without a lawyer present
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JWags85

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2023, 09:56:11 AM »
The Panthers, who are interested in Carr, also say they like several of the QBs who will be drafted. According to the Charlotte Observer, they have interviewed, Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson, Hooker and Duggan at the combine.

The Panthers' GM also acknowledged that he could trade up to draft a QB.

Richardson has to the potential to be an absolute SUPERSTAR, but he needs to be at a franchise willing to be patient.  I think he easily has highest ceiling of the top 4 QB prospects, but hes also the most raw/not ready.  Funny enough, I think Stroud/Young are the most finished and ready, but Levis and Richardson have the tools to be the better QBs in the long run.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/03/01/nflpa-report-cards-8-most-alarming-findings/11375436002/

LOL, the Cardinals charge their players for dinners and off-season meals.

SHOCKED, just SHOCKED that the stingiest teams for food and perks like that are the Cardinals and Bengals.  There are exceptions, like the Rooneys, but its no surprise that some of these OLD NFL families who weren't wealthy before starting/acquiring teams 80 years ago are still relentlessly cheap.  The Browns, the Bidwells, the McCaskeys to an extent.  Giants avoided this with the infusion of Tisch money.

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2023, 09:30:30 AM »
Derek Carr to the Saints
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Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2023, 10:01:38 AM »
Derek Carr to the Saints

Good news for the Packers, if they want to deal Rodgers. The Jets just got (more) desperate.

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2023, 10:13:13 AM »
Richardson has to the potential to be an absolute SUPERSTAR, but he needs to be at a franchise willing to be patient.  I think he easily has highest ceiling of the top 4 QB prospects, but hes also the most raw/not ready.  Funny enough, I think Stroud/Young are the most finished and ready, but Levis and Richardson have the tools to be the better QBs in the long run.

I'd be surprised if Richardson's public combine performance moves the needle all that much among NFL teams. Nobody is surprised that he's big, fast and an athletic freak. The question remains whether he can be a quarterback.
As an NFL team, what would scare me is that Richardson only completed 53.8% of his passes last year, which is a dreadful number in college. Only three QBs have been drafted after completing less than 55% - Trey Lance, Christian Hackenberg and Trace McSorely.
I agree that the upside is massive, but can a team (or coach) afford to pick him in the top 3 then sit him for a season or two and hope his passing develops?

tower912

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2023, 10:23:46 AM »
He drops due to accuracy issues.  Detroit gets him with their second pick in the first round.  He sits behind Goff for the last two years of Goff's contract.

Hey, everybody needs a dream.
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jesmu84

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2023, 10:24:56 AM »
I'd be surprised if Richardson's public combine performance moves the needle all that much among NFL teams. Nobody is surprised that he's big, fast and an athletic freak. The question remains whether he can be a quarterback.
As an NFL team, what would scare me is that Richardson only completed 53.8% of his passes last year, which is a dreadful number in college. Only three QBs have been drafted after completing less than 55% - Trey Lance, Christian Hackenberg and Trace McSorely.
I agree that the upside is massive, but can a team (or coach) afford to pick him in the top 3 then sit him for a season or two and hope his passing develops?

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MU82

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2023, 10:48:50 AM »
Derek Carr to the Saints

Dang. Not even sure I wanted him on the Panthers but I definitely didn’t want him to go to the Saints. They’ve got to be big favorites in the division.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2023, 11:20:40 AM »
Dang. Not even sure I wanted him on the Panthers but I definitely didn’t want him to go to the Saints. They’ve got to be big favorites in the division.

Carr had a dreadful season last year with the best WR in football.

I wouldn't be that concerned.

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2023, 11:54:04 AM »
Carr had a dreadful season last year with the best WR in football.

I wouldn't be that concerned.

You're both right.
Carr was bad last year, worse even that his stats indicate. But barring a surprise, he'll start the season as the best QB in the NFC South, paired with the division's best defense.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 12:59:30 PM by Pakuni »

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2023, 03:53:13 PM »
I'd be surprised if Richardson's public combine performance moves the needle all that much among NFL teams. Nobody is surprised that he's big, fast and an athletic freak. The question remains whether he can be a quarterback.
As an NFL team, what would scare me is that Richardson only completed 53.8% of his passes last year, which is a dreadful number in college. Only three QBs have been drafted after completing less than 55% - Trey Lance, Christian Hackenberg and Trace McSorely.
I agree that the upside is massive, but can a team (or coach) afford to pick him in the top 3 then sit him for a season or two and hope his passing develops?

I remember when the Bears traded for Rick Mirer. Big, strong, fast, good arm - lots of fans were exited. His only drawback was that he wasn’t a particularly accurate passer. For every Josh Allen there are several Rick Mirers.

MU82

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2023, 07:00:19 AM »
I'd be surprised if Richardson's public combine performance moves the needle all that much among NFL teams. Nobody is surprised that he's big, fast and an athletic freak. The question remains whether he can be a quarterback.
As an NFL team, what would scare me is that Richardson only completed 53.8% of his passes last year, which is a dreadful number in college. Only three QBs have been drafted after completing less than 55% - Trey Lance, Christian Hackenberg and Trace McSorely.
I agree that the upside is massive, but can a team (or coach) afford to pick him in the top 3 then sit him for a season or two and hope his passing develops?

The Athletic's Ted Nguyen just wrote an article comparing Richardson and Levis after talking to several NFL personnel people and after watching hours of film on both.

https://theathletic.com/4271011/2023/03/07/nfl-draft-anthony-richardson-will-levis-risk/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=6319110

Richardson’s lack of production was due to his inexperience and the offense he ran. I wouldn’t call the Florida offense pro-style, but it featured a lot more dropback and play-action concepts than an average college spread offense — 53 percent of his passes traveled at least 10 air yards. As a result, there weren’t a lot of “easy button” throws for Richardson to pad his stats with, and the Gators didn’t fully utilize Richardson’s running ability with their option package. They called a lot of their core concepts over and over again — possibly because of Richardson’s inexperience — so the Florida offense was somewhat predictable. His numbers weren’t great, but playing in this system might have helped his long-term development by giving him more dropback reps.

The article also said Florida's line sucked and his receivers usually failed to get open; they weren't even able to run basic pick routes well. It sounds like Florida wasn't a very well-coached team, either. Richardson often had poor footwork, which personnel people thought would be correctable. A couple other observations by Nguyen:

Pre-snap, Richardson makes good reads and knows where to look and go. He also consistently sniffs out blitzes and adjusts his protection, though I didn’t see him get to his hot routes or sight adjustments often on film, which might partially be a function of the offense. Post-snap, Richardson can struggle to adjust against coverage disguises. His interceptions are not often purposeful throws into traffic but rather products of reading the defense incorrectly, which could improve with experience.

Overall, Richardson has the tools to be an elite quarterback on par with the top playmaking quarterbacks in the NFL. There are a lot more translatable skills on film than I thought before watching his tape. He consistently gets through multiple progressions and wants to stay in the pocket.


The article was less positive about Levis, who tended to stick with his first read more often, force the ball into tight coverage and/or bail from the pocket earlier. But Nguyen also said Levis, like Richardson, didn't have great talent around him.

Although Levis is a powerful runner, "The ability to feel the rush and move subtly to buy time within the pocket is innate. It’s hard to see Levis developing into a high-level pocket manipulator."

Nguyen's conclusion:

I’d bet on Richardson. He’s younger — he’ll be 22 by Week 1, while Levis will be 24 — and Richardson’s biggest flaws seem to be correctable with more coaching and experience.

The strides Richardson will have to make to reach his potential are not for the risk-averse, but quarterbacks with Richardson’s physical tools don’t come around often, and his floor isn’t as low as some perceive. Richardson’s explosive ability as a runner means the team that drafts him can build an option-heavy attack with him — something Jalen Hurts and Lamar Jackson have proved can be successful — and Richardson has the arm talent to connect on schemed-up throws off play action.

Though I prefer Richardson, Levis isn’t a bad consolation prize. He has the tools to develop into a top-tier quarterback, with a rare combination of elite arm talent and good athleticism. Others might see Richarson’s long development curve as a no-go in the top 10, but it seems like the growing consensus is that he’s worth that type of risk.

As one general manager told The Athletic’s Mike Sando, “I like Anthony Richardson better than Levis, and I don’t think I’m the only GM who feels this way.”


This is the third piece I've read that preferred Richardson's ceiling to that of Levis. I've also read a couple that preferred Levis, including one quoting a GM that said he'd draft Levis first in this QB class.

I'm not a huge college football fan, and I never saw either guy play anything close to a full college game. Mostly just clips on Sportscenter, so all I know about either is based on video I see and articles I read. Based on that, both sound like huge gambles but I think Richardson sounds like the better gamble. I allow I could be completely wrong.
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JWags85

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2023, 09:41:41 AM »
I'll say in Levis' defense, UK's OC was pretty terrible most of the year and fans were very sick of him.

Jockey

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2023, 10:05:15 AM »
I'll say in Levis' defense, UK's OC was pretty terrible most of the year and fans were very sick of him.

I don’t think there are any great QBs this year, but I would put Levis either 1 or 2.

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 NFL Draft/Offseason
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2023, 01:55:48 PM »
Lots of smoke about Lamar Jackson to the Falcons.

 

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