Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement

[Knight Commission]

Markus adding to his legacy, leading his Baskonia team to a title*

https://www.eurobasket.com/Spain/news/828754/Baskonia-rally-past-Tortona-to-win-Alava-Trophy

Markus Howard vs Mike Daum (8th in NCAA scoring I belive)




*preseason title

[dgies9156]

I went through and re-read most of the posts on Markus Howard, hoping something would change my mind.

Nothing did.

Coach Wojo was to Marquette what Press Maravich was to LSU. Basically let one person "be" the offense. In Press' case, it was his son. In Wojo's case, it was obviously Markus. People knew what was happening and in time they adjusted to it.

Candidly, having seen both Pete Maravich and Markus, I wasn't impressed. Neither accomplished a damn thing at their universities. LSU and Marquette were perennial back of the standings teams in their conference while Maravich and Markus played.

In LSU's case, they made a much vaunted trip to the NIT in 1970, only to get run over by the Al McGuire lawnmower. Markus went to the NCAA once and was hit hard by the Murray State run-away truck. Teams like Marquette don't lose to teams like Murray State, even with Ja Morant.

If I was an LSU fan -- God forbid -- I'd want Maravich's number retired for what he did after LSU, in the pros. He brought lots of attention and publicity to LSU, even after his Dad was fired.

So no, Markus' point totals were at the expense of the Marquette team and our performance. Therefore, I'd retire Buzz in the rafters before I do Markus.

[Jay Bee]

Crean's avg adj offensive efficiency ranking: 46.6
Buzz's: 35.5
Wojo w/o Markus: 121.3
Wojo w/Markus: 16.5

3 (would have been) of 4 years with tourney bids for #M2N.

Elite offensive teams, simple as that.

Statue, NOW!!

[MU82]

Markus went to the NCAA once

Huh?

Markus' point totals were at the expense of the Marquette team and our performance.

As a freshman, Markus was an extremely valuable role player for an NCAA tournament team.

As a junior, Howard was Big East Player of the Year for an NCAA tournament team, albeit a flawed one that featured numerous players who couldn't play a lick of defense.

As a senior, Markus was an All-American for a team that would have struggled to go .500 without him but, thanks primarily to him, would have made the NCAA tournament had Covid not ended the season prematurely.

He has nothing to do with a player from another school who played a half-century earlier.

[Its DJOver]

I went through and re-read most of the posts on Markus Howard, hoping something would change my mind.

Nothing did.

Coach Wojo was to Marquette what Press Maravich was to LSU. Basically let one person "be" the offense. In Press' case, it was his son. In Wojo's case, it was obviously Markus. People knew what was happening and in time they adjusted to it.

Candidly, having seen both Pete Maravich and Markus, I wasn't impressed. Neither accomplished a damn thing at their universities. LSU and Marquette were perennial back of the standings teams in their conference while Maravich and Markus played.

In LSU's case, they made a much vaunted trip to the NIT in 1970, only to get run over by the Al McGuire lawnmower. Markus went to the NCAA once and was hit hard by the Murray State run-away truck. Teams like Marquette don't lose to teams like Murray State, even with Ja Morant.

If I was an LSU fan -- God forbid -- I'd want Maravich's number retired for what he did after LSU, in the pros. He brought lots of attention and publicity to LSU, even after his Dad was fired.

So no, Markus' point totals were at the expense of the Marquette team and our performance. Therefore, I'd retire Buzz in the rafters before I do Markus.

Holy getting basic facts wrong Batman, I think we got us a sweater vest.

[Galway Eagle]

I went through and re-read most of the posts on Markus Howard, hoping something would change my mind.

Nothing did.

Coach Wojo was to Marquette what Press Maravich was to LSU. Basically let one person "be" the offense. In Press' case, it was his son. In Wojo's case, it was obviously Markus. People knew what was happening and in time they adjusted to it.

Candidly, having seen both Pete Maravich and Markus, I wasn't impressed. Neither accomplished a damn thing at their universities. LSU and Marquette were perennial back of the standings teams in their conference while Maravich and Markus played.

In LSU's case, they made a much vaunted trip to the NIT in 1970, only to get run over by the Al McGuire lawnmower. Markus went to the NCAA once and was hit hard by the Murray State run-away truck. Teams like Marquette don't lose to teams like Murray State, even with Ja Morant.

If I was an LSU fan -- God forbid -- I'd want Maravich's number retired for what he did after LSU, in the pros. He brought lots of attention and publicity to LSU, even after his Dad was fired.

So no, Markus' point totals were at the expense of the Marquette team and our performance. Therefore, I'd retire Buzz in the rafters before I do Markus.

"Marquette was perennial back of standings"

Marquette finished: 3, 6, 2, 6 during Howard's tenure. Not great but not perennial back half

"Markus went to the NCAA tournament once"

Ok ignore 2017 why don't you. They were also a lock in 2020, would've gotten steam rolled again I'm sure but were in nonetheless.

"Teams like Marquette don't lose to teams like Murray state"

A better team than 2019 struggled hugely with them in 2012. But to refresh your memory, we do lose to teams like Murray st, the record books are littered with losses over the year to teams much worse than Murray St.

Here's the link so you can review our records vs the 'inferior' programs:

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/sidearm.nextgen.sites/gomarquette.com/documents/2023/6/26/2023-24_Marquette_MBB_Record_Book.pdf?timestamp=20230626025135

I'm not saying your comparison is bad or good but get the facts right. Jesus there's enough reasons to not retire Markus' jersey by just saying "no tournament runs, no conference championships" without putting out falsehoods.

[The Sultan]

So no, Markus' point totals were at the expense of the Marquette team and our performance.

Not only are you getting dunked on for getting basic facts wrong, but this is just horsesh*t. 

Wojo isn't a great coach and misused a lot of players. But Markus was a fantastic player and representative of the University.

[wadesworld]

Whether you enjoyed Markus's style, hate how Markus was used, or hated the coach that coached Markus, I don't know how anyone could "not be impressed" by Markus.  That dude took an absolute beating every single night and just kept going.  One of the more well conditioned college basketball players I've ever seen play.  And an absolutely special scorer.

[Viper]

Huh?

As a freshman, Markus was an extremely valuable role player for an NCAA tournament team.

As a junior, Howard was Big East Player of the Year for an NCAA tournament team, albeit a flawed one that featured numerous players who couldn't play a lick of defense.

As a senior, Markus was an All-American for a team that would have struggled to go .500 without him but, thanks primarily to him, would have made the NCAA tournament had Covid not ended the season prematurely.

He has nothing to do with a player from another school who played a half-century earlier.

100%.

[Viper]

Not only are you getting dunked on for getting basic facts wrong, but this is just horsesh*t. 

Wojo isn't a great coach and misused a lot of players. But Markus was a fantastic player and representative of the University.

...also 100%

[Goose]

wades

If Kolek has a similar year this season to he had last season, would you be in favor of his number retired?

[tower912]

Jersey.  And yes, if Kolek has a similar season and wins similar accolades in 23-24, I think his jersey should one day be hung from the rafters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

wades

If Kolek has a similar year this season to he had last season, would you be in favor of his number retired?

2-time All American and 2-time BEPOY? I would say yes.

Just imagine if he comes back next season too.

[Galway Eagle]

2-time All American and 2-time BEPOY? I would say yes.

Just imagine if he comes back next season too.

If he comes back next year he could feasibly touch Tony Miller's untouchable assist record.

[wadesworld]

wades

If Kolek has a similar year this season to he had last season, would you be in favor of his number retired?

Absolutely.

[brewcity77]

If he comes back next year he could feasibly touch Tony Miller's untouchable assist record.

If he comes back next year he could feasibly touch Bobby Hurley's untouchable assist record.

[Goose]

If Kolek plays at a similar level the next seasons, he is in my top ten, possibly top five all time MU player. He will be the George Thompson of the second era of MU basketball greatness, IMO.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If he comes back next year he could feasibly touch Tony Miller's untouchable assist record.

It's more than feasible. If he gets the same assists each of the next two years, he'd beat Millers record by around 40. From there, he'd only need to add about 45 more each season to break Bobby Hurley's all time record. 45 sounds like a lot, but when you're averaging 7.5 a game, that's only six more games of assists. Increase the average by a little both seasons, go deeper in March and it becomes doable.

[MU82]

If Kolek has a similar year this season to he had last season, would you be in favor of his number retired?

Don't know what this has to do with Markus Howard, but sure.

[#UnleashSean]

It's more than feasible. If he gets the same assists each of the next two years, he'd beat Millers record by around 40. From there, he'd only need to add about 45 more each season to break Bobby Hurley's all time record. 45 sounds like a lot, but when you're averaging 7.5 a game, that's only six more games of assists. Increase the average by a little both seasons, go deeper in March and it becomes doable.

Do we add an asterisk though?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do we add an asterisk though?

Literally? No. In our heads?

For Tony Miller's record? I would say no, this only includes his assists at Marquette. Both would have done it in four years.

For Bobby Hurley's record? If TyKo's 50 assists at George Mason are the difference between him breaking the record or not, then probably. If not, then I would say no, both did it in four years.

[dgies9156]

OK guys, if you can convince the basketball leadership at Marquette to retire Markus Howard's jersey, be my guest.

Compared to the other Marquette greats that are in the rafters, Markus Howard is light years behind. How many of you really think Markus is a Marquette great in the line with George Thompson, Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Dean Meminger, Dwyane Wade or Maurice Lucas? Let's also consider some of the great Warriors who aren't up there, such as Jim Chones, Wes Matthews or Travis Diener. I may be a "sweatervest", but I've seen a lot of Marquette basketball and these guys made a difference to our program.

I don't see how Markus did.

Keep in mind that in the tournament that counts, we were 0 for the Wojo era, of which Markus was a big part. Wojo got fired for a reason. Markus was a big part of that! We demonize the Hauser brothers, which I admit is easy, but think about what any of us would have done if we were in Sam and Joey's shoes. You had a ball hogging guard who was going to be there another year and you were getting the leftovers. And, like Vanilla Soft Serve, Markus couldn't play defense.

At the end of the day, Markus was a good shot and apparently, a very impressive human being. Buit, he didn't make the team around him better nor was a vital cog in a Big East leading program.

All that said, if you want a reminder of the Wojo era every time you walk into the FiServ, hang a Markus banner.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If Kolek plays at a similar level the next seasons, he is in my top ten, possibly top five all time MU player. He will be the George Thompson of the second era of MU basketball greatness, IMO.

Goose:

3rd era

1. Al
2. Wojo
3. Shaka

[The Sultan]

OK guys, if you can convince the basketball leadership at Marquette to retire Markus Howard's jersey, be my guest.

Compared to the other Marquette greats that are in the rafters, Markus Howard is light years behind. How many of you really think Markus is a Marquette great in the line with George Thompson, Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Dean Meminger, Dwyane Wade or Maurice Lucas? Let's also consider some of the great Warriors who aren't up there, such as Jim Chones, Wes Matthews or Travis Diener. I may be a "sweatervest", but I've seen a lot of Marquette basketball and these guys made a difference to our program.

Anyone who thinks Wes Matthews made a difference to the Marquette program, and Markus Howard didn't, should probably put the keyboard away and take a nap.  Or watch few more basketball games.

Keep in mind that in the tournament that counts, we were 0 for the Wojo era, of which Markus was a big part. Wojo got fired for a reason. Markus was a big part of that!

No. This is where you are wrong. Markus wasn't a "big part" of Wojo getting fired. Markus was the primary reason Wojo had any success in the first place.

All that said, if you want a reminder of the Wojo era every time you walk into the FiServ, hang a Markus banner.

I wouldn't think of the "Wojo era" at all. I would think of all the great games Markus had.

[tower912]

Dgies, I generally respect your opinion on most things.   And I respect it here, too.   It is impossible for me to disagree more.