Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement

[Galway Eagle]

OK guys, if you can convince the basketball leadership at Marquette to retire Markus Howard's jersey, be my guest.

Compared to the other Marquette greats that are in the rafters, Markus Howard is light years behind. How many of you really think Markus is a Marquette great in the line with George Thompson, Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Dean Meminger, Dwyane Wade or Maurice Lucas? Let's also consider some of the great Warriors who aren't up there, such as Jim Chones, Wes Matthews or Travis Diener. I may be a "sweatervest", but I've seen a lot of Marquette basketball and these guys made a difference to our program.

I don't see how Markus did.

Keep in mind that in the tournament that counts, we were 0 for the Wojo era, of which Markus was a big part. Wojo got fired for a reason. Markus was a big part of that! We demonize the Hauser brothers, which I admit is easy, but think about what any of us would have done if we were in Sam and Joey's shoes. You had a ball hogging guard who was going to be there another year and you were getting the leftovers. And, like Vanilla Soft Serve, Markus couldn't play defense.

At the end of the day, Markus was a good shot and apparently, a very impressive human being. Buit, he didn't make the team around him better nor was a vital cog in a Big East leading program.

All that said, if you want a reminder of the Wojo era every time you walk into the FiServ, hang a Markus banner.

Sam averaged 8.8, 14.1, 14.9 (11.1 FGA) at Marquette he averaged 16 (11.7 FGA) at Virginia with a year on the bench to age up. I don't think Markus was the one holding him back from 1.1 ppg because Markus didn't give him .6 more FGA a game.

Joey averaged 9.7 (7.1 FGA) at Marquette, then after a year of growing still went 9.7 (7.1 FGA) 7.3 (5.3 FGA) and 14.4 (10 FGA) Was it Markus and Wojo still holding Joey back?

Just for reference let's also add in that Rowsey managed 20.5ppg when Sam and Howard were sophomores so the ball was getting around plenty then.

Markus was objectively a ball hog in the 19-20 season arguably by necessity but Sam seemingly got enough touches to maximize his scoring output in 18-19 and 17-18 unless you think there was a ball hog on Virginia? Joey, you could argue deserved more but given what he showed at MSU for the next two years I'm not sure he did.

The Wojo system was terrible and the ball wasn't shared well but they got plenty of looks to hit the numbers that they put up elsewhere.

All that said I do agree with your better points about the non Doc Rivers people up in the rafters and about who isn't retired.

[wadesworld]

Lol at the idea that Markus did not make the team better.  Look at the roster his senior year.  The best players on the roster not named Markus Howard were Sacar Anim, Koby McEwen, and Brendan Bailey.  Those guys are mid major players.  Remove Markus from that team and they in maybe 3 conference games.  Instead they were an NCAA Tournament team had it not been canceled.

[The Sultan]

I have heard a lot of sweater-vests say that they hate the fact that Don Kojis' number is retired because it reminds them too much of the Eddie Hickey era.

[MU82]

dgies:

It's one thing to opine on whether or not Markus deserves to have his jersey hoisted to the rafters. We all have opinions.

But your argument is filled with errors of fact - which you still haven't acknowledged - as well as poorly reasoned conclusions. Please read Galway's post about how Markus' teammates got plenty of opportunities; it's simple stats and facts.

You can do better (and usually do), so I was surprised by your continued attacks on a two-time All-American who gave every ounce of energy he had every single game.

Oh, and I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the honored jerseys when I go to games ... but if I did look up and see "0" up there, I'd be thankful I got to watch a great warrior play. I wouldn't think of Wojo for one second.

[Shooter McGavin]

I have heard a lot of sweater-vests say that they hate the fact that Don Kojis' number is retired because it reminds them too much of the Eddie Hickey era.

Ha!  That is part of the rational being used to dis Markus. 

[Hards Alumni]

Markus Howard was one of the best players and best people to ever put on a Marquette jersey.  He belongs in the rafters easily.

Every single team in the NCAA would have been elated to have him on their team ever year he played at Marquette.

I can't imagine anyone subjectively arguing otherwise.

[4everwarriors]

dgies:

It's one thing to opine on whether or not Markus deserves to have his jersey hoisted to the rafters. We all have opinions.

But your argument is filled with errors of fact - which you still haven't acknowledged - as well as poorly reasoned conclusions. Please read Galway's post about how Markus' teammates got plenty of opportunities; it's simple stats and facts.

You can do better (and usually do), so I was surprised by your continued attacks on a two-time All-American who gave every ounce of energy he had every single game.

Oh, and I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the honored jerseys when I go to games ... but if I did look up and see "0" up there, I'd be thankful I got to watch a great warrior play. I wouldn't think of Wojo for one second.

Sure dat "0" woodant bea for Oliver Lee, hey?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dgeezer thinks Yadi is the greatest baseball player of all time.  Leave him with his thoughts.

[MU82]

Sure dat "0" woodant bea for Oliver Lee, hey?

Nah. Anyone who would see that number in the rafters would be reminded of Hank's team that lost to Miami of Ohio.

Similarly, when I see the #3 up there, I don't think of the great Dwyane Wade but of Crean going to Indiana.

[avid1010]

Markus Howard was one of the best players and best people to ever put on a Marquette jersey.  He belongs in the rafters easily.

Every single team in the NCAA would have been elated to have him on their team ever year he played at Marquette.

I can't imagine anyone subjectively arguing otherwise.

I wouldn't take him over TK or Diener.  Think Shaka would trade TK for Markus?

[Galway Eagle]

I wouldn't take him over TK or Diener.  Think Shaka would trade TK for Markus?

They're great in their own way. I know I never saw Travis in college but based on stats, videos, & accolades plus toughness of competition I'd take both over Travis.

[Uncle Rico]

They're great in their own way. I know I never saw Travis in college but based on stats, videos, & accolades plus toughness of competition I'd take both over Travis.

Travis Diener was and is, a dude.  Would have been a star and dude on any Marquett team and for any Marquette coach.

[Galway Eagle]

Travis Diener was and is, a dude.  Would have been a star and dude on any Marquett team and for any Marquette coach.

Saying a two major conference POYs and all Americans were better in no way diminishes anything that he did or was.

[Mu8891]

You guys should really stop dissing
Markus.  He was a great player, great scorer and a great representative of MU.

He was - at times - a walking highlight real.  Should his number in the rafters ?
Yes.  He's the all time leading scorer at MU. Whether he is " better " than Travis or TKO does not matter. 

As someone said above in his Jr and Sr years there's not a team in the country that would not have wanted / taken him.

Could he have been better w / another coach?  Sure.  But that's not on him

[The Sultan]

Dgeezer

Solid

[MU82]

I wouldn't take him over TK or Diener.  Think Shaka would trade TK for Markus?

That's an opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm a huge fan of both, too, and would have no problem with either or both being honored.

But it has little if anything to do with honoring a two-time All-American who was nothing but a great representative of our alma mater while setting the all-time scoring record.

[4everwarriors]

They're great in their own way. I know I never saw Travis in college but based on stats, videos, & accolades plus toughness of competition I'd take both over Travis.

Nah man, Travis has the heart of a lion. Just a flat out assassin who'd cut your eyes out for a "w," hey?

[The Sultan]

Nah man, Travis has the heart of a lion. Just a flat out assassin who'd cut your eyes out for a "w," hey?

Let's not go overboard here. He was a very good player.

[avid1010]

They're great in their own way. I know I never saw Travis in college but based on stats, videos, & accolades plus toughness of competition I'd take both over Travis.

That's crazy talk.

[4everwarriors]

Let's not go overboard here. He was a very good player.

No hyperbole, #34 is a flat out winner, hey?

[Its DJOver]

I wouldn't take him over TK or Diener.  Think Shaka would trade TK for Markus?

TKO would very much struggle to have the influence he currently does in a Wojo schemed offense.  If the only swap that is happening is M2N for TKO, the Wojo era would look worse than it does and the Shaka era would look better.

[The Sultan]

No hyperbole, #34 is a flat out winner, hey?

Except, of course, when he was a senior and even before he got hurt was a borderline NCAA team at best.

[Shooter McGavin]

Love Travis Denier.  And would want him on my team any day of the week. But,  Markus Howard would have thrived on a team with Wade, Novak and Jackson.  This is a time and place argument more than anything.

Wojo has tainted the views of a minority of the fan base.  Markus Howard was a great player and received national recognition for his play at a time and place with an average coach surrounded by much less talent than Travis Deiner.  He was the only good thing going for MU during his tenure.  Not his issue in the slightest.

[Skatastrophy]

Love Travis Denier.  And would want him on my team any day of the week. But,  Markus Howard would have thrived on a team with Wade, Novak and Jackson.  This is a time and place argument more than anything.

Wojo has tainted the views of a minority of the fan base.  Markus Howard was a great player and received national recognition for his play at a time and place with an average coach surrounded by much less talent than Travis Deiner.  He was the only good thing going for MU during his tenure.  Not his issue in the slightest.

Yeah, Wojo tainted my views of Howard. Usage rate of 40% and assist to turnover ratio below one.

I would have loved seeing Marcus play in an offense that was moving the ball, and that wasn't relying on him to take bad shots to save possessions. I'm not saying he wasn't up to the challenge, I'm just saying it stinks that he had to carry every game.

[panda]

Lol at the idea that Markus did not make the team better.  Look at the roster his senior year.  The best players on the roster not named Markus Howard were Sacar Anim, Koby McEwen, and Brendan Bailey.  Those guys are mid major players.  Remove Markus from that team and they in maybe 3 conference games.  Instead they were an NCAA Tournament team had it not been canceled.

Agreed - he put in an all worldly season given the extreme lack of talent on that team along with a clueless coach.