Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement

[TallTitan34]

Let's go full ass Carolina and retire a bunch of jerseys.

0- Howard
1- James
10- Miller
20- Lucas, Novak
22- McNeal, Chones
23- Matthews
31- Rivers
32- Hayward
33- Butler
34- Diener, T. Smith
43- Tatum
44- Kojis

Retired Numbers:

3- Wade
14- Meminger
15- Lee
24- Thompson
31- Ellis

I don't hate this.

[brewcity77]

I think the fact that we have two 31's in the rafters proves it's jerseys and not numbers that get retired.

It doesn't though, because Ellis' 31 wasn't retired until after Doc's career. And no 31 has been issued since. Marquette claims they retired jerseys, but it's not true. Broeker said that no one will wear 3 again when Kam posted a commitment picture in that number. We had all the kerfuffle (twice) over George Thompson's number being worn again. Then this year they unretired 11 for Kolek, which wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't retired.

What they say or claim isn't as important as what the actual practice is. And the actual practice has always been once retired, the number isn't reused. Maybe Kolek & 11 cracks the door to change that, but if it does, Howard is just the first in a line of 10-20 jerseys that need retiring asap.

https://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/04/retired-numbers-vs-retired-jerseys.html?m=1

[JWags85]

Don't we have Kojis retired? Doesn't he have zero wind to his name? I get he was one of the first greats but if we were going to retire a program starting a great it should be Terry Rand.

RUH ROH, you gonna piss off the old heads with this one!

How was he “huge” in getting National press? The most attention we got when he was here was for the Hauser’s leaving because of him.

Sweet revisionist history.  No attention at all to only the second time in 15 years the leading scorer in CBB was from a major conference.  No attention to a consensus 1st team AA in chatter for NPOY.

I have a tweet saved that said, at the time, there were 4 50pt games in BEast history.  Markus had 3.  He was the only player since 2000 that had multiple 50 pt games.  He was a national story constantly.

The coach’s system that made him the focal point really wasn’t a winning formula. There’s a lot of players who could put up those stats if given the same green light.

Less than 60 players in the history of the 3pt shot in CBB have shot a better percentage for their career than Markus.  And less than 15 of those played in a major conference with strong competition all year.  And less than 5 of those were focal point of every defense.

Just stop with that absurd BS.

[StillAWarrior]

RUH ROH, you gonna piss off the old heads with this one!
 
Sweet revisionist history.  No attention at all to only the second time in 15 years the leading scorer in CBB was from a major conference.  No attention to a consensus 1st team AA in chatter for NPOY.

I have a tweet saved that said, at the time, there were 4 50pt games in BEast history.  Markus had 3.  He was the only player since 2000 that had multiple 50 pt games.  He was a national story constantly.

Less than 60 players in the history of the 3pt shot in CBB have shot a better percentage for their career than Markus.  And less than 15 of those played in a major conference with strong competition all year.  And less than 5 of those were focal point of every defense.

Just stop with that absurd BS.

But...but...but...he played for Wojo.

[Galway Eagle]

RUH ROH, you gonna piss off the old heads with this one!

I welcome it, they'd have to crap over the guy who started MUBB to justify Kangaroo jack

[wiscwarrior]

I would just say that if we're talking NCAAT wins, back when Kojis played there were only 24 bids as opposed to 68 now. A little bit harder to qualify, no?

[cheebs09]

I would just say that if we're talking NCAAT wins, back when Kojis played there were only 24 bids as opposed to 68 now. A little bit harder to qualify, no?

Only if you are COLE.

[wiscwarrior]

Ha ha. Guess I'm guilty. 

[muwarrior69]

if Markus's 3s were 2s and you only take his 2-4 seasons he's still the top scorer by a lot. You're right there's a shot clock now and the free throws are different but as best as you can to normalize all the data he's still no 1 in scoring.

...but Markus played more games.

[muwarrior69]

I think the fact that we have two 31's in the rafters proves it's jerseys and not numbers that get retired.

...even the Yankees retired #8 for Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey.

[Galway Eagle]

...but Markus played more games.

Not wrong. As I said if you normalize the data as best you can. Like comparing any athletes of different eras there's always differences

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There is no such thing.

Yes there is. He is the leading scorer. Full stop.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wojo coached like he had one player on the team. One player shoots and the rest of the team watched.

Possibly if he had a better coach Markus may have developed into a better all around player. What Markus did was at an elite level but in other areas he was somewhat lacking.

In Smart's system he would have been much more effective but likely a lower scorer. He would have improved our 3 point shooting Percent and he would have improved overall. Add a Jim Chones type center and it would be dynasty time.

Y'all ever think how bad Wojo's teams would have been WITHOUT Markus?

I mean, it is insanely strange to me that people think that somehow Markus shouldn't be honored because of lack of team success, without thinking that it could have been so much worse without him.  Our second best player in 2019-20 was Sacar Anim, yet they still were a lock for the tournament before COVID.

If anything, we should be praising Markus for being the primary reason we even got to witness the NCAA tournament under Wojo.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

...but Markus played more games.

Even if you remove Markus' freshman year and count all of his FGs as 2Ps, he still beats Thompson on a per game average.

Markus: 20.6 ppg (with all the conditions above)
Brute Force: 20.4 ppg

I'm a big believer that you can't accurately compare players between eras. But trying to claim that Markus isn't the all-time leading scorer in school history is silly.

[brewcity77]

...but Markus played more games.

So what? If you count all of Markus' 3s as 2s from his sophomore to senior years, he would've scored 1,999 points in 97 games, averaging 20.6 ppg. Thompson scored 1,773 in 87 games, averaging 20.4 ppg. That takes nothing away from Thompson, but Howard was truly a generational scorer.

[Jay Bee]

Retire the jersey and erect a bronze or gold statue NOW!!

#M2N

[lawdog77]

So what? If you count all of Markus' 3s as 2s from his sophomore to senior years, he would've scored 1,999 points in 97 games, averaging 20.6 ppg. Thompson scored 1,773 in 87 games, averaging 20.4 ppg. That takes nothing away from Thompson, but Howard was truly a generational scorer.

Well, Markus had a shot clock, so the NCAA forced him to shoot more often.

[brewcity77]

Well, Markus had a shot clock, so the NCAA forced him to shoot more often.

Gonna have to report this post to the mods, I'm pretty sure we're only allowed to blame Wojo for how often Howard shot.

[fjm]

Retire the jersey and erect a bronze or gold statue NOW!!

#M2N

I can’t believe I’m on BJ’s team on this…

[Newsdreams]

I would just say that if we're talking NCAAT wins, back when Kojis played there were only 24 bids as opposed to 68 now. A little bit harder to qualify, no?

Lot more teams now competing for spots.

[CTWarrior]

So what? If you count all of Markus' 3s as 2s from his sophomore to senior years, he would've scored 1,999 points in 97 games, averaging 20.6 ppg. Thompson scored 1,773 in 87 games, averaging 20.4 ppg. That takes nothing away from Thompson, but Howard was truly a generational scorer.

Shot clock would more than make up that difference of 0.2 ppg.  Doesn't really matter, Markus is the all-time leading scorer.

[Lennys Tap]

If anything, we should be praising Markus for being the primary reason we even got to witness the NCAA tournament under Wojo.

Witnessing our two NCAA tournament games with Markus under Wojo was among my 10 most painful experiences in 57 years of fandom. So, thanks?

[CTWarrior]

Y'all ever think how bad Wojo's teams would have been WITHOUT Markus?

I mean, it is insanely strange to me that people think that somehow Markus shouldn't be honored because of lack of team success, without thinking that it could have been so much worse without him.  Our second best player in 2019-20 was Sacar Anim, yet they still were a lock for the tournament before COVID.

If anything, we should be praising Markus for being the primary reason we even got to witness the NCAA tournament under Wojo.

Well, I don't know what you think, but if I was a great player I would not have even considered playing for Marquette during the Howard/Rowsey era.  I think when your primary ballhandlers call their own number way more than their teammates, it is not fun to play with them and not a place you'd want to play.  I think Howard was the reason he didn't play with other good players.  Well, not Howard, but the way the team played under Wojo.

[Uncle Rico]

As someone once told me, if Markus goes pro and the white boys came back, you’d have had a lot more transfers

[Newsdreams]

As someone once told me, if Markus goes pro and the white boys came back, you’d have had a lot more transfers

But we would have had the unselfish white boys. By the way, the older white boy didn't seem to have a problem prior years.