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Author Topic: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.  (Read 1884 times)

brewcity77

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2022, 05:35:43 AM »
Kolek is probably the MVP of this team so far. Certainly on offense. His shots may not be falling, but he creates everything. Dude's averaging over 10 assists per game. And he's leading the team in rebounding.

Would it be better if he was shooting 44% from two & 33% from three? Yeah. And that's the difference of one more made two and one more made three. Right now he's a really good point guard. If he marginally improves his shooting, he's all-conference.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
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"F**k 'em."

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2022, 06:41:46 AM »
Oso isn't the problem.  We need our perimeter guys to do more off the dribble other than Kolek.

That's fine,  then say that,  not "Oso doesn't create for others".
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

avid1010

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2022, 06:42:14 AM »
Kolek is probably the MVP of this team so far. Certainly on offense. His shots may not be falling, but he creates everything. Dude's averaging over 10 assists per game. And he's leading the team in rebounding.

Would it be better if he was shooting 44% from two & 33% from three? Yeah. And that's the difference of one more made two and one more made three. Right now he's a really good point guard. If he marginally improves his shooting, he's all-conference.
He led the BEAST in assists last year...I didn't expect that to disappear on a team that was going to have more balanced scoring.  Was hoping he could develop a shot...I'm sure he worked his a$$ off...hope it transfers over soon.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2022, 06:49:15 AM »
He led the BEAST in assists last year...I didn't expect that to disappear on a team that was going to have more balanced scoring.  Was hoping he could develop a shot...I'm sure he worked his a$$ off...hope it transfers over soon.

Kolek was 2/5 heading into this game. First bad shooting night and yall are acting like we're halfway through the season
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

We R Final Four

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2022, 06:55:47 AM »
I think Kam needs to either be reigned in or shown what a good shot looks like.
He seems to have the Markus green light.
I think this offense can do better than 27’+ shots.

tower912

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2022, 07:00:58 AM »
Shaka said the same thing in his presser.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MUDPT

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2022, 07:12:19 AM »
As TAMU said, they won’t play a player like Edey the rest of the season. Mason Gillis started on their S16 team last year and had zero points, zero rebounds and 2 assists last night. Defensively, they had multiple wings to throw at OMax (Gillis, Newman, Morton). All to feed into a monster in the middle.

OMax was fine. TK was great, only thing I was a disappointed in, was the 2 on 1 with Ross when they had Purdue on the ropes.

Jay Bee

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2022, 08:24:33 AM »
This team needs it, and it’s pretty to watch… but assists get you style points, but no extra real points

#11 in assist rate… #101 in offensive efficiency

wadesworld

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2022, 08:53:53 AM »
Kolek was 2/5 heading into this game. First bad shooting night and yall are acting like we're halfway through the season

We've seen the guy for a season and 3 games.  I think it's fair to say that, at this level, Kolek is not a good shooter.  Not even just not a good shooter, but a really bad shooter.  Maybe he'll prove that wrong.  But so far...

Kolek is probably the MVP of this team so far. Certainly on offense. His shots may not be falling, but he creates everything. Dude's averaging over 10 assists per game. And he's leading the team in rebounding.

Would it be better if he was shooting 44% from two & 33% from three? Yeah. And that's the difference of one more made two and one more made three. Right now he's a really good point guard. If he marginally improves his shooting, he's all-conference.

And if he made "one more made two and one more made three" a night, those would still be bad shooting numbers.  And let's not act like it's "just."  That's adding five points per game to the team!  That's a huge difference.  For example, last year Georgia and Hartford were dead center in the country at 69.8 points per game.  If they "just" made one more three and one more two per game (as a team, not even one specific individual player) they jump up from 179th in points per game to 53rd in points per game as a team.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 08:57:15 AM by wadesworld »
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Jay Bee

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2022, 08:58:35 AM »
Points per game no matta

wadesworld

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2022, 09:14:37 AM »
Points per game no matta

They do when you're talking about a player adding one made three and one made two per game.  1 extra made 3 per game = three points per game.  1 extra made 2 per game = 2 points per game.  2+3=5.  #math.
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Daniel

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2022, 09:18:45 AM »
As conditioned etc that our guys are, clearly they were gassed towards the end and Purdue was not.   Tired legs, short shots, etc.   Battling Edey wears in you.  And Purdue seemed pretty fresh at the end.   When Edey returned, it was over. 

But overall a great effort.   Can’t go 5+ minutes without scoring in any game and expect to win.   

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2022, 09:21:04 AM »
We've seen the guy for a season and 3 games.  I think it's fair to say that, at this level, Kolek is not a good shooter.  Not even just not a good shooter, but a really bad shooter.  Maybe he'll prove that wrong.  But so far...

And if the conversation we were having was about Kolek's entire tenure at MU, I'd agree with you. But the post I was responding to was a comment specifically about improvement from last season, meaning we're only 3 games into the sample size.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

brewcity77

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2022, 09:22:41 AM »
And if he made "one more made two and one more made three" a night, those would still be bad shooting numbers.

I didn't say per night. I said one of each. Period. 6/16 to 7/16 and 2/9 to 3/9. It wouldn't be great, but it would be fine. His value is in terms of looks created for others and his overall value more than offsets the shooting.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
.
"F**k 'em."

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2022, 09:23:19 AM »
As conditioned etc that our guys are, clearly they were gassed towards the end and Purdue was not.   Tired legs, short shots, etc.   Battling Edey wears in you.  And Purdue seemed pretty fresh at the end.   When Edey returned, it was over. 

But overall a great effort.   Can’t go 5+ minutes without scoring in any game and expect to win.

Painter wisely played 10 guys double digit minutes. We played 6 guys 21+ minutes, 1 guy 10 minutes, and 3 guys 5 minutes or less. Painter was banking on them being fresher at the end of the game.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Elonsmusk

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2022, 09:23:40 AM »
We've seen the guy for a season and 3 games.  I think it's fair to say that, at this level, Kolek is not a good shooter.  Not even just not a good shooter, but a really bad shooter.  Maybe he'll prove that wrong.  But so far...

And if he made "one more made two and one more made three" a night, those would still be bad shooting numbers.  And let's not act like it's "just."  That's adding five points per game to the team!  That's a huge difference.  For example, last year Georgia and Hartford were dead center in the country at 69.8 points per game.  If they "just" made one more three and one more two per game (as a team, not even one specific individual player) they jump up from 179th in points per game to 53rd in points per game as a team.

#solidmope

brewcity77

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2022, 09:25:29 AM »
This team needs it, and it’s pretty to watch… but assists get you style points, but no extra real points

#11 in assist rate… #101 in offensive efficiency

Except if Tyler isn't creating those looks, no one else is. He's giving guys a ton of wide open opportunities that lead to points that they wouldn't be getting on their own. I'd love to have five guys that can create their own shot at will and never need assists, but we don't have that. So we need Tyler and his assists.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
.
"F**k 'em."

jfp61

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2022, 09:29:48 AM »
Except if Tyler isn't creating those looks, no one else is. He's giving guys a ton of wide open opportunities that lead to points that they wouldn't be getting on their own. I'd love to have five guys that can create their own shot at will and never need assists, but we don't have that. So we need Tyler and his assists.

Guys who might be able to create their own shot on this team.... Sean Jones maybe and David Joplin maybe..

Without Kolek this is a horrible offense.


Jay Bee

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2022, 09:32:08 AM »
Except if Tyler isn't creating those looks, no one else is. He's giving guys a ton of wide open opportunities that lead to points that they wouldn't be getting on their own. I'd love to have five guys that can create their own shot at will and never need assists, but we don't have that. So we need Tyler and his assists.

Yes, that’s why my post started off with, “this team needs it.”

My point is that a lot of assists are not needed to have an effective offense.

wadesworld

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2022, 09:39:09 AM »
And if the conversation we were having was about Kolek's entire tenure at MU, I'd agree with you. But the post I was responding to was a comment specifically about improvement from last season, meaning we're only 3 games into the sample size.

Okay.  Well, we've only got a sample size of 3 games to go off of then.  So far, it seems his shooting hasn't improved.
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brewcity77

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2022, 09:43:36 AM »
Yes, that’s why my post started off with, “this team needs it.”

My point is that a lot of assists are not needed to have an effective offense.

That's fair. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost that our offense would suck without him.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
.
"F**k 'em."

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2022, 10:14:56 AM »
Okay.  Well, we've only got a sample size of 3 games to go off of then.  So far, it seems his shooting hasn't improved.

That's fine, I think it's silly to draw any conclusions from three games. Especially when the first two games were fine (improved even).

Last night, Kolek was 0/2 on threes that he had a choice to shoot. He was also 0/2 on threes that he had to shoot because he was given the ball with less than 3 seconds on the shot clock.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

MU82

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2022, 10:30:57 AM »
The way Shaka has built this roster, TK and Oso are irreplaceable. We do not have anybody else who can do what either can.

If they play well -- as each has in each game -- it then will come down to are others performing their roles well: making open 3s, hitting the boards, playing D, etc.

Jury still out on Kolek's shot. In every other facet, he has been very good this season, and I thought he was especially outstanding last night. Heck, he even made a floater and had a couple other tough finishes near the hoop.

He has limitations as every player does. He's still weak going right, and until his shot actually goes in at a decent rate over a span of multiple games, I don't know how anybody can say anything other than his shooting is poor. But I've been very impressed with his body of work in the small sample so far this season.

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Shooter McGavin

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2022, 10:39:20 AM »
Guys who might be able to create their own shot on this team.... Sean Jones maybe and David Joplin maybe..

Without Kolek this is a horrible offense.

Agreed on Sean Jones being able to create his own shot and most likely for others as well. I thought we would see more of Sean out there with Kolek to get Kolek some catch and shoot opportunities.  That will likely get him going and then he may have more confidence off the dribble.

It’s fun to watch this team play. Lots of wide open looks missed that will hopefully go down at a higher percentage as the team settles in to the season.  That 2 on one with Ross was a big missed opportunity.  Could have won this game despite not playing that well on offense.  The defense was good enough against a tough opponent on the road. 


MU82

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Re: OMax Prosper, Tyler Kolek and the Computers.
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2022, 10:40:58 AM »
When Edey returned, it was over.   

I'm pretty sure we outscored them when Edey was in the game and were outscored when Edey was on the bench.

I know for certain that we were up 58-52 when Edey left at the 9:39 mark of the second half but were trailing 63-62 when he came back in at 4:43. We were outscored 11-4 during those 5 minutes and never saw the lead again.

Edey got his on offense and altered some shots on defense. But in general, we attacked them pretty good while he was out there, as well as holding our own against Purdue both on D and on the glass.

As conditioned etc that our guys are, clearly they were gassed towards the end and Purdue was not.   Tired legs, short shots, etc.   Battling Edey wears in you.  And Purdue seemed pretty fresh at the end.   When Edey returned, it was over. 

But overall a great effort.   Can’t go 5+ minutes without scoring in any game and expect to win.   

I totally agree with the rest of this.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 11:02:24 AM by MU82 »
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick