JAMAL!!!

[tower912]

Rumor had it that Jamal would not have been alone. 

Bailey played better defense early in the year and rarely turned the ball over.    Sadly, he never found his HS shooting form.   If memory serves, his high school rankings were similar or better than Sam's.   He never regained his game after his LDS mission.

[Elonsmusk]

I know you know. I was just adding an accent to your point that Jamal was frustrated.

On a related note, I never got the Wojo love of Bailey.

Rightfully so.  Brendan Bailey came in as a freshman during Jamal's sophomore season and got nearly twice as much PT.  Never got the Bailey love from Wojo either.  Was odd. 

Rumor had it that Jamal would not have been alone. 

Bailey played better defense early in the year and rarely turned the ball over.    Sadly, he never found his HS shooting form.   If memory serves, his high school rankings were similar or better than Sam's.   He never regained his game after his LDS mission.

Not sure who else you are referring to as potentially transferring out if the Hausers didn't leave?  Bailey? (Don't let the door hit you on the way out Brendan - as he was terrible.)  Also, I don't believe the potential transfers out were a function of guys not liking to play with Sam - and maybe even Joey - but they knew they weren't going to take minutes from Sam, and Wojo was all in on Joey.

[Uncle Rico]

Rightfully so.  Brendan Bailey came in as a freshman during Jamal's sophomore season and got nearly twice as much PT.  Never got the Bailey love from Wojo either.  Was odd. 

Not sure who else you are referring to as potentially transferring out if the Hausers didn't leave?  Bailey? (Don't let the door hit you on the way out Brendan - as he was terrible.)  Also, I don't believe the potential transfers out were a function of guys not liking to play with Sam - and maybe even Joey - but they knew they weren't going to take minutes from Sam, and Wojo was all in on Joey.

No, they hated the Hausers

[tower912]

The version I heard had multiple transfers if the Hausers stayed.    The Hausers left, everyone else stayed.

[Uncle Rico]

The version I heard had multiple transfers if the Hausers stayed.    The Hausers left, everyone else stayed.

Same.  Whatever the case, I'm in agreement that it shouldn't get to that point and the blame is at the feet of the coach.  Buck stops here/there type stuff.

[Newsdreams]

No, they hated the Hausers

Just like the Hausers hated Herro

[tower912]

ners, I live an hour's drive from Lansing.  I coached basketball.   It is known that I went to and root for MU.  I have many friends who are huge Spartan fans, boosters, or 'close to the program'.   Because of my overt affection for Marquette, many go out of their way to tell me rumors about Joey.  Some are similar to rumors from here surrounding Joey's departure from MU.   Some are unlike anything mentioned on Scoop.   Few are complimentary and Spartan fans won't miss him.
   I have moved on.   I root for Sparty and therefore want Joey to succeed because it will help Sparty.

[MU82]

Cain's soph year, four of the starters (Markus, Sam, Joey, Sacar) averaged 29-34 mpg each, and it was actually more than that in the non-blowouts. The other position was center, where Theo and Morrow (and some Heldt) split time. So that left Cain, Bailey and Chartouny fighting for scraps as backups at the 1-4 spots.

Wojo viewed Bailey as kind of the opposite of Joey -- long, active defender who wasn't a great shooter. Cain was having trouble staying with his man, he was a poor ballhandler, and the one thing he did well as a freshman -- shoot -- he didn't do early when he was getting 16 mpg (.333 overall, .267 from 3 in the first 5 games, including 2 starts); Bailey was getting 14 mpg during that span.

Had Cain shot early on as a soph the way he shot the second half of his freshman year (.520 from 3), Wojo would have stuck with him. But when Cain was throwing up bricks, and when Bailey did other things better than Cain did (in Wojo's eyes), Wojo went with Bailey.

For coaches, when you're dealing with role players -- and that's what both were -- it ultimately comes down to "Who do I trust more?"

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Wojo's decision, just explaining why Wojo "loved" Bailey and "hated" Cain.

Regardless, after the Hausers bolted, Cain stayed to keep playing for the coach who supposedly "played mind games" with him. He improved as a junior and his PT more than doubled, and he went on to have a good 4th season, averaging 30 mpg.

Rather than playing his 5th season for Shaka, Jamal decided to move down a level, and he really flourished in the Horizon League, and that helped him get his shot with the Heat.

I'm rooting for him to stick and have a long NBA career.

[Uncle Rico]

ners, I live an hour's drive from Lansing.  I coached basketball.   It is known that I went to and root for MU.  I have many friends who are huge Spartan fans, boosters, or 'close to the program'.   Because of my overt affection for Marquette, many go out of their way to tell me rumors about Joey.  Some are similar to rumors from here surrounding Joey's departure from MU.   Some are unlike anything mentioned on Scoop.   Few are complimentary and Spartan fans won't miss him.
   I have moved on.   I root for Sparty and therefore want Joey to succeed because it will help Sparty.

They don't know ball

[Newsdreams]

They don't know ball

They're woke

[brewcity77]

After his freshman year, I thought Cain could be another Josh Hart/Mikal Bridges type that blossomed given the chance. Watching him since he left has only reinforced my belief that he had at minimum All-Big East level potential had he either been given the chance or played at a program like Villanova.

[NCMUFan]

Speculation is good.  Definitely a diamond in the rough.  Could another coach have revealed his luster earlier in his career?  Maybe.

[wadesworld]

Buzz couldn't get the NBA talent out of Juan either.  It happens.

[panda]

Buzz couldn't get the NBA talent out of Juan either.  It happens.

Not exactly apples to apples.

Juan improved much later in his pro career.

Jamal succeeded immediately at his next stop in college and sequentially, his next step in the pros.

[The Sultan]

Jamal succeeded immediately at his next stop in college and sequentially, his next step in the pros.

He also went from the BE to the Horizon League last year so who knows...

[Elonsmusk]

Buzz couldn't get the NBA talent out of Juan either.  It happens.

Actually Wojo couldn't as Wojo had the good fortune of coming into the stocked cupboard of Top 100 talent that Buzz left behind - Juan included. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

In Juan's last year under Wojo, he played undersized center which he credited to his NBA success. Similarly, Jamal played power forward at Oakland versus shooting and driver forward at MU.   With the 4 and 5 out NBA, both play an important tweener role.

[wadesworld]

Actually Wojo couldn't as Wojo had the good fortune of coming into the stocked cupboard of Top 100 talent that Buzz left behind - Juan included.

Right.  In 3 years with Buzz Juan scored 207 points, had 64 assists, and had 221 rebounds.  Buzz really had him playing at an NBA level, only to have Wojo come and ruin it when he had 257 points, 54 assists, and 178 rebounds in his single year with Wojo.  Demotivated.  SAD!

[panda]

He also went from the BE to the Horizon League last year so who knows...

A small group of talent evaluators with the Miami heat. That's who knows.

[Elonsmusk]

Right.  In 3 years with Buzz Juan scored 207 points, had 64 assists, and had 221 rebounds.  Buzz really had him playing at an NBA level, only to have Wojo come and ruin it when he had 257 points, 54 assists, and 178 rebounds in his single year with Wojo.  Demotivated.  SAD!

Yes.  Steve was a motivator of men.  A prolific coach.  We are fortunate to have had him at the helm of MU basketball.  I look forward to hearing your induction speech for Wojo in his induction into the MU Hall Of Fame as his Number 1 fanboy.

[Galway Eagle]

Yes.  Steve was a motivator of men.  A prolific coach.  We are fortunate to have had him at the helm of MU basketball.  I look forward to hearing your induction speech for Wojo in his induction into the MU Hall Of Fame as his Number 1 fanboy.

Or maybe nobody got nba level work out of Juan because of Juan and not the coaches. Sort of like Buycks or Cain or even arguably Jamil

[MU82]

If only he had been playing under a Hall of Fame coach like Izzo, Jamal would have been the NPOY -- just like Joey has been the last two seasons.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Jay Wright, Jamal would have been All-Big East -- just like Jahvon Quinerly was.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Bill Self, Jamal would have led the Big 12 in scoring -- just like Quentin Grimes did.

Because great coaches never, ever, ever fail to get the absolute most out of each and every player.

Instead, Jamal was stuck with a coach who totally ruined Howard, Sam Hauser, Anim, Rowsey, Carlino, Carton, Henry Ellenson, Reinhardt, John, Bailey and Garcia.

[Elonsmusk]

If only he had been playing under a Hall of Fame coach like Izzo, Jamal would have been the NPOY -- just like Joey has been the last two seasons.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Jay Wright, Jamal would have been All-Big East -- just like Jahvon Quinerly was.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Bill Self, Jamal would have led the Big 12 in scoring -- just like Quentin Grimes did.

Because great coaches never, ever, ever fail to get the absolute most out of each and every player.

Instead, Jamal was stuck with a coach who totally ruined Howard, Sam Hauser, Anim, Rowsey, Carlino, Carton, Henry Ellenson, Reinhardt, John, Bailey and Garcia.

I agree with this analysis.  What could have been.

[Uncle Rico]

If only he had been playing under a Hall of Fame coach like Izzo, Jamal would have been the NPOY -- just like Joey has been the last two seasons.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Jay Wright, Jamal would have been All-Big East -- just like Jahvon Quinerly was.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Bill Self, Jamal would have led the Big 12 in scoring -- just like Quentin Grimes did.

Because great coaches never, ever, ever fail to get the absolute most out of each and every player.

Instead, Jamal was stuck with a coach who totally ruined Howard, Sam Hauser, Anim, Rowsey, Carlino, Carton, Henry Ellenson, Reinhardt, John, Bailey and Garcia.

Imagine how good they could have been with Mike Deane

[Lennys Tap]

If only he had been playing under a Hall of Fame coach like Izzo, Jamal would have been the NPOY -- just like Joey has been the last two seasons.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Jay Wright, Jamal would have been All-Big East -- just like Jahvon Quinerly was.

Or if he had been under a Hall of Fame coach like Bill Self, Jamal would have led the Big 12 in scoring -- just like Quentin Grimes did.

Because great coaches never, ever, ever fail to get the absolute most out of each and every player.

Instead, Jamal was stuck with a coach who totally ruined Howard, Sam Hauser, Anim, Rowsey, Carlino, Carton, Henry Ellenson, Reinhardt, John, Bailey and Garcia.

You sold me Mike, I'm on your side now. Wojo is/was the GOAT. Jay Wright, Izzo and the rest? Pretenders next to the Great One.