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Author Topic: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic  (Read 13928 times)

Uncle Rico

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2022, 02:52:56 PM »
My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

It’s a piece done to show how out of tune Seth Davis is as much as it is a takedown of Wojo by AE.  National media in college sports have long too often been mouthpieces for coaches and ADs. 
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2022, 03:01:18 PM »
My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

Sort of like you by clicking on it, reading it, and repeatedly responding to posts about the general topic?
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2022, 03:09:10 PM »
As we've noted, the legacy media (JS, TV, radio) were either supportive or simply ignored the topic. Zoe Comerford at Marquette Wire wrote two pieces supporting Wojo in the 3 weeks before he was fired, so I have a hard time saying Wire went after him.

Wojo deleted his Twitter in 2019, so if he was hearing from AE, PT, and CS on there (none of us use Instagram or other forms of social media much) he was searching it out. Same goes for the Marquette podcasts, which had various levels of criticism but are something you need to be pretty diehard or deliberate to find. And as Wojo and those around him really shut the blogs out of the Marquette "media" circle, I have a tough time believing that he saw any of us as "media" until the moment The Case Against started circulating among the Board of Trustees.

If you're one of the maybe 2% of nerds diehard enough to follow the podcasts, blogs, and message boards ardently, then you probably remember the 2021 fallout that led to his firing. But for 98% of fans and for the even broader general public, it was at most an eyedropper into an ocean until about 24 hours before the axe fell.

I don't remember what Wire author it was but one of their male opinion authors wrote a pretty scathing article on Wojo before Zoe's.

The only thing the article says is "As the losses continued to pile up, the fans and media turned on him." That's it. And it's a factual statement. It doesn't say all media turned on him. There just isn't a lot of media that covers Marquette basketball.

What you seem to be arguing now is not "the media didn't turn on Wojo" to "the media did turn on Wojo but I don't believe he viewed that media as legitimate media so it's not fair of him to say that the media turned on him". Which I don't think personally matters especially since I think that particular line came from Davis not from Wojo.

The bits about the "Fire Wojo chants" during the COVID season and Wojo only being on the bench for 5 years are laughable mistakes that Davis should be ragged on for making. I just don't see this one line as particularly offensive. And the rest of the article was fine. I personally don't read it as anti-Marquette at all. The article doesn't say anything about the fans or media turning on Wojo being wrong or unwarranted. It just says it happened after the losses piled up which I read as putting the blame on Wojo for losing too much. The putting the blame on the players was a little eyebrow raising but that came from Coach Carrawell. The only criticism towards Marquette is from Mrs. Wojo about the fire Wojo chants and I'm not going to fault a spouse for taking offense at her husband being publicly booed.
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cheebs09

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2022, 03:14:02 PM »
I read the article but I didn't get that vibe.

Frankly, a lot of the article suggested that Wojo is such a grinder and such a basketball lifer that he's never taken a moment for himself and at 45 is learning to do things his peers did 20-25 years ago. I mean simple things like hammering a nail and mowing the lawn.

I wouldn't assume coaching is his definite future. He's got a crap ton of money and will never hurt for employment so perhaps the time spent hiking and biking has availed him that life outside that bubble, especially given the current climate of the sport, can be just fine.

Thanks. I appreciate the background. That must mostly be my perception on why he hasn’t been hired.

If memory serves, I thought there were some rumors he reached out to UNLV to reset his coaching clock and they weren’t all that interested. With all the UNLV coaching changes, I may be getting my times mixed up.

withoutbias

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2022, 03:20:23 PM »
Sort of like you by clicking on it, reading it, and repeatedly responding to posts about the general topic?

Yes.  I'm a Marquette basketball fan who comes to MUScoop.  I would fall under that "die-hard Marquette fan" category that might've seen this article.  And honestly, I subscribe to The Athletic and probably would not have even seen the article had I not come to Scoop and seen the thread on it.  It's a total non-issue.

This thread is why multiple podcasts make joking remarks about how whiny and annoying Marquette fans are.  They will throw us out there randomly on a completely unrelated note just to take a jab at our fanbase for this.  A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.  It's absurd.

brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2022, 03:21:38 PM »
What you seem to be arguing now is not "the media didn't turn on Wojo" to "the media did turn on Wojo but I don't believe he viewed that media as legitimate media so it's not fair of him to say that the media turned on him". Which I don't think personally matters especially since I think that particular line came from Davis not from Wojo.

No, what I'm arguing is that recognized media outlets didn't turn on him, and using a few blogs criticizing him to say "the media turned on him" is like sourcing a couple Scoop posts as "the fans turned against him."

Honestly, if Seth is looking at AE, CS, and PT as "the media" I think he gives us vastly more credit as reputable outlets than anyone outside of a very small segment of the Marquette community, and a segment that Wojo himself was never a part of.

It seems pretty clear that the only people Davis talked to about this article were Wojo, his family, and people he worked with at Duke. And it's equally clear he didn't do any fact checking on what those people said. Either Wojo or Lindsay said the media turned against him and Davis ran with that. But coming from one of those two, calling the mubbPAC contributors "the media" is a particularly rich assertion.
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Scoop Snoop

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #106 on: September 21, 2022, 03:22:39 PM »
Steve Lavin technically left on his own, but he was perfectly honest about why he was an announcer on Fox. After he congratulated a coach for a big win, the coach thanked Lavin and added something like "you've had some big wins too Steve". With a big smile on his face, Lavin quickly came back with "Not often enough! That's why I'm here".

And then there's Wojo and his excuses. The contrast between the two coaches is huge.


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wadesworld

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2022, 03:24:36 PM »
It seems pretty clear that the only people Davis talked to about this article were Wojo, his family, and people he worked with at Duke. And it's equally clear he didn't do any fact checking on what those people said. Either Wojo or Lindsay said the media turned against him and Davis ran with that. But coming from one of those two, calling the mubbPAC contributors "the media" is a particularly rich assertion.

Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.
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brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2022, 03:31:51 PM »
Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.

Seth is a reporter. His job is to produce accurate journalism. You can write a positive piece about Wojo without lying, which he does repeatedly in this story either because he doesn't know or because he didn't care enough to fact check. Either way, it's failed journalism.
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Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2022, 03:32:22 PM »
Yes.  I'm a Marquette basketball fan who comes to MUScoop.  I would fall under that "die-hard Marquette fan" category that might've seen this article.  And honestly, I subscribe to The Athletic and probably would not have even seen the article had I not come to Scoop and seen the thread on it.  It's a total non-issue.

This thread is why multiple podcasts make joking remarks about how whiny and annoying Marquette fans are.  They will throw us out there randomly on a completely unrelated note just to take a jab at our fanbase for this.  A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.  It's absurd.

Seth and The Athletic will be sorry when we sue them for libel.

wadesworld

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2022, 03:38:31 PM »
Seth is a reporter. His job is to produce accurate journalism. You can write a positive piece about Wojo without lying, which he does repeatedly in this story either because he doesn't know or because he didn't care enough to fact check. Either way, it's failed journalism.

Agreed.  It's not accurate and it's bad writing.  But he wasn't going to interview 100 people for the article.  He needed some people who knew what Wojo's day to day life is like now (his wife) and a couple higher profile people who have worked with him professionally (K and Carawell).
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2022, 03:40:52 PM »
I'm just not seeing the need for outrage here. There's a lot more sour grapes in this thread and the AE article than anything said in the Athletic article.
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brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2022, 03:40:54 PM »
A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.

This is just as inaccurate as what Davis wrote. I dislike that he lied repeatedly in the article and seemed to think the best way to make Wojo look good was by making those around Wojo look bad, as though he was a victim rather than bad at his job.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2022, 03:43:26 PM »
...but the crash-and-burn to end the season had a familiar feel to it.

Did it ever! I really hope it was a one-time aberration for Shaka because I'm so, so tired of that creeping sick feeling I've had the last several years in February and March.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2022, 03:44:04 PM »
This is just as inaccurate as what Davis wrote. I dislike that he lied repeatedly in the article and seemed to think the best way to make Wojo look good was by making those around Wojo look bad, as though he was a victim rather than bad at his job.

This is the part I don't get, I didn't get that from the article at all other than the one line by Carrawell about players not working hard enough which was something. Other than that one line, I don't see how this article makes anyone around Wojo look bad. Davis never says that the boos, the fans turning, the media turning or even the termination were bad or unwarranted. He just said that they happened.
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MU82

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2022, 03:46:00 PM »
Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.

I hear what you're saying, but the lack of any comment from anybody Wojo worked with at Marquette or any player Wojo coached at Marquette was glaring. Heck, even if he wanted to paint Wojo in a positive light (which he obviously did), don't you call Markus Howard, who became the school's all-time scorer thanks in great part to Wojo encouraging him to shoot just about every time he touched the ball? Or maybe Theo John? And the article begged for at least a no-comment from Scholl.

And though the savage AE reaction was way over the top, it cracked me up in a few spots because it highlighted a few things that I thought "huh" as I read them: The reference to Wojo as having been "doughy." ...The mention of Wojo reading 20 minutes a day, as if that's what, an accomplishment? ... The fact about the $9M buyout, because I thought I had read $7M repeatedly here on Scoop and elsewhere. ... The Carrawell quote asking Wojo if he wanted to win the practice or the game.

Anyhoo ... it all makes me feel glad that Wojo is gone.

Now it's Shaka's job to do what Wojo couldn't: Build a great basketball program for our alma mater.

We Are Marquette!
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brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2022, 04:07:27 PM »
This is the part I don't get, I didn't get that from the article at all other than the one line by Carrawell about players not working hard enough which was something. Other than that one line, I don't see how this article makes anyone around Wojo look bad. Davis never says that the boos, the fans turning, the media turning or even the termination were bad or unwarranted. He just said that they happened.

But it didn't. Fans that weren't there certainly weren't booing. If fans were turning it was on an app Wojo deleted, so he had to actively search out that negativity. The media didn't turn. He used things that weren't actually happening to make Wojo sympathetic.

It would be like saying "Wojo was hurt when fans like brew booed at games" when I wasn't there and never booed Wojo or his teams.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2022, 04:17:12 PM »
Comparing the resources of Marquette during Dukiet and Marquette during Wojo, I think it’s much closer than first glance.
Eh. Wojo had the Fiserv, The Big East, A tradition of winning, a huge fan backing. And still performed terribly.


Anyone who thinks that Wojo was worse than Bob-f*cking*-Dukiet needs to get their head out of their a$$ right now. It's not even close. Not remotely close.

Wojo had three (if you count 2020) NCAA appearances and an NIT appearance. He recruited well. There were good times with him as coach - big wins against top programs with the Fiserv rocking.

Dukiet had little to none of any of that.  He recruited Tony Smith so that was good.  One NIT appearance - ending a streak of something like 25 years in a row of appearing in the postseason. Just awful.

Learn your history.
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brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2022, 04:18:43 PM »
The Fire Wojo chants happened maybe twice from a miniscule minority in the student section in 2020. But in that stretch where we lost 6/7 down the stretch, 4 were road games. And most fans scoffed at those chants because the losses were to top-15 teams in Creighton and Seton Hall.

After losing to #15 SHU in February 29, 2020, Wojo didn't face a home crowd until the tiny Senior Day attendees.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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tower912

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2022, 04:20:53 PM »
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2022, 04:22:22 PM »
But it didn't. Fans that weren't there certainly weren't booing. If fans were turning it was on an app Wojo deleted, so he had to actively search out that negativity. The media didn't turn. He used things that weren't actually happening to make Wojo sympathetic.

It would be like saying "Wojo was hurt when fans like brew booed at games" when I wasn't there and never booed Wojo or his teams.

First, fans absolutely booed Wojo and chanted Fire Wojo, it just wasn't during the COVID season. We'll disagree about the media turning. And Wojo turning off twitter (due to the hate he was getting on twitter) doesn't mean the tweets didn't exist.

Second, none of this is anti-Marquette or makes Marquette look bad in any way. If you want to say Seth Davis went over the top trying to make Wojo look sympathetic, sure. But that doesn't make it anti-Marquette.
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mileskishnish72

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2022, 04:24:59 PM »
With a big smile on his face, Lavin quickly came back with "Not often enough! That's why I'm here".


And if you've ever seen Lavin's wife you'd understand why he almost always has a big smile on his face.

LAZER

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2022, 04:30:07 PM »
This is why I can only take so much of AE.
You don't want 5000 words recapping a Seth Davis fluff piece on Wojo???

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2022, 04:32:57 PM »
You don't want 5000 words recapping a Seth Davis fluff piece on Wojo???

Harping on the slightest inaccuracy and perceived slight? No thanks.
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