MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mug644 on September 20, 2022, 11:11:22 AM

Title: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: mug644 on September 20, 2022, 11:11:22 AM
A good read. Won't change anyone's mind about Wojo as a coach, and may shed some light on his humanity. Which, thanks to some deep-pocketed MU boosters, he has plenty of money to explore in a relaxed way.

https://theathletic.com/3531387/2022/09/20/steve-wojciechowski-marquette-duke-coaching/ (https://theathletic.com/3531387/2022/09/20/steve-wojciechowski-marquette-duke-coaching/)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 20, 2022, 12:00:37 PM
Load of BS. Fans chanting Fire Wojo down the stretch in 2020-21? In the year he was fired, fans were at ONE game and it was what, 1,800 fans? Blaming his players for not working as hard as he did as a player? Local media turned on him? Ben Steele never wrote a negative article and there was no other consistent beat reporter.

This is just whitewash trash. Ignores his record as a coach, that he wouldn't take admin recommendations to save his job, or that him deleting his Twitter happened BEFORE his contract extension. Just trying to paint someone who did a poor job in the best possible light by obfuscating and outright lying through the piece.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: avid1010 on September 20, 2022, 12:04:23 PM
Is he not coaching somewhere else because he's still being paid by MU...or because no one else wants him?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 20, 2022, 12:07:17 PM
Is he not coaching somewhere else because he's still being paid by MU...or because no one else wants him?

Sounds like he was trying hard to get back in with the Utah Jazz and Quin Snyder, but that opportunity dried up. I'm sure the old Duke ties got him his recent stint back at USA Basketball. Seems like a combination of not being in very high demand but also not being willing to lower himself. One of the rumors I heard was that he wasn't interested in a mid or low major job, but honestly, proving himself there is probably his best chance at getting back.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: DienerTime34 on September 20, 2022, 12:12:17 PM
Reads like a Players Tribune piece, not an investigative report. It seems if you write something long enough and get a photo of someone staring off into the distance, people will call a story "great" or "beautiful."

In reality, Wojo is a nice guy, not a great basketball coach. Not sure whey this story was deserved. Plenty of people who are dedicated and hardworking get laid off - with no safety net. It's always tough. Not quite as tough when you have a $9 million buyout and can spend your days hiking and doing hot yoga.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Scoop Snoop on September 20, 2022, 12:24:34 PM
Sounds like he was trying hard to get back in with the Utah Jazz and Quin Snyder, but that opportunity dried up. I'm sure the old Duke ties got him his recent stint back at USA Basketball. Seems like a combination of not being in very high demand but also not being willing to lower himself. One of the rumors I heard was that he wasn't interested in a mid or low major job, but honestly, proving himself there is probably his best chance at getting back.

He spent 15 years next to K and, rather than prove himself at a mid-major, waited for a school like Marquette that would buy into the Duke pedigree BS. Remember the "Duke North" crap?

Although it was only one moment, the Butler game where he did not know what the score was epitomizes his tenure at Marquette for me. I hated the hire from the day it was announced but was really hoping to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MUCam on September 20, 2022, 12:35:53 PM
Load of BS. Fans chanting Fire Wojo down the stretch in 2020-21? In the year he was fired, fans were at ONE game and it was what, 1,800 fans? Blaming his players for not working as hard as he did as a player? Local media turned on him? Ben Steele never wrote a negative article and there was no other consistent beat reporter.

This is just whitewash trash. Ignores his record as a coach, that he wouldn't take admin recommendations to save his job, or that him deleting his Twitter happened BEFORE his contract extension. Just trying to paint someone who did a poor job in the best possible light by obfuscating and outright lying through the piece.

A little harsh, wouldn't you say? Even if what you are saying is correct it sure seems harsh. The article is a fluff piece that skews some facts favorably towards Wojo. Anyone who was present during his tenure knows that. But that doesn't mean we have to call him or Seth Davis (who makes his money writing fluff pieces by the way) out. It sounds like the cries of a jilted lover to do so. Let bygones be bygones.

Marquette took a chance and gave Wojo an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach. He was afforded resources many others simply will never have. The man tried, and I have little doubt he tried his hardest. In some aspects he was successful, but overall he failed. He was in over his head. Trying hard is not enough, and it sounds like he would agree. So, he was fired. End of story. Calling BS on some fluff story sure doesn't seem a good look in my opinion. But, then again, who am I.

I personally enjoyed the article, even knowing it is a fluff piece. Wojo is part of MU's history and it is interesting to read. And, as the original poster said, it is always good to have some appreciation for a person's humanity.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Markusquette on September 20, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
A little harsh, wouldn't you say? Even if what you are saying is correct it sure seems harsh. The article is a fluff piece that skews some facts favorably towards Wojo. Anyone who was present during his tenure knows that. But that doesn't mean we have to call him or Seth Davis (who makes his money writing fluff pieces by the way) out. It sounds like the cries of a jilted lover to do so. Let bygones be bygones.

Marquette took a chance and gave Wojo an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach. He was afforded resources many others simply will never have. The man tried, and I have little doubt he tried his hardest. In some aspects he was successful, but overall he failed. He was in over his head. Trying hard is not enough, and it sounds like he would agree. So, he was fired. End of story. Calling BS on some fluff story sure doesn't seem a good look in my opinion. But, then again, who am I.

I personally enjoyed the article, even knowing it is a fluff piece. Wojo is part of MU's history and it is interesting to read. And, as the original poster said, it is always good to have some appreciation for a person's humanity.

Very well said and I agree. It's nice to read about the humanity and not get so wrapped up in numbers, stats, etc. The Wojo era was an interesting one and disappointing from a results standpoint, but I have no problem with the guy. Glad he's relaxing and enjoying a slower pace of life out west.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 20, 2022, 01:06:46 PM
The crowds on Scoop were chanting 'Fire Wojo. '
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: panda on September 20, 2022, 01:07:45 PM
A little harsh, wouldn't you say? Even if what you are saying is correct it sure seems harsh. The article is a fluff piece that skews some facts favorably towards Wojo. Anyone who was present during his tenure knows that. But that doesn't mean we have to call him or Seth Davis (who makes his money writing fluff pieces by the way) out. It sounds like the cries of a jilted lover to do so. Let bygones be bygones.

Marquette took a chance and gave Wojo an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach. He was afforded resources many others simply will never have. The man tried, and I have little doubt he tried his hardest. In some aspects he was successful, but overall he failed. He was in over his head. Trying hard is not enough, and it sounds like he would agree. So, he was fired. End of story. Calling BS on some fluff story sure doesn't seem a good look in my opinion. But, then again, who am I.

I personally enjoyed the article, even knowing it is a fluff piece. Wojo is part of MU's history and it is interesting to read. And, as the original poster said, it is always good to have some appreciation for a person's humanity.

A lot of it seems like sour grapes and inaccuracies pushed off as truths. Blaming the lack of talent that he recruited and coach k saying he worked himself too hard is plain comical.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 20, 2022, 01:09:15 PM
A lot of it seems like sour grapes and inaccuracies pushed off as truths. Blaming the lack of talent that he recruited and coach k saying he worked himself too hard is plain comical.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: jfp61 on September 20, 2022, 01:09:32 PM
Blames his players for not putting in a 10/10 effort.

Encourages a player to play injured in an NIT game.

Player transfers out 2 years later.

(What a load of crap this article is)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Boone on September 20, 2022, 01:34:09 PM
“load of crap” aptly describes Wojo’s alleged coaching ability. Wish we could can him again…minus buyout
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: avid1010 on September 20, 2022, 01:38:48 PM
So who cares about any of this...if he was a great coach that got screwed by fans, admin, etc. other universities would know this and scoop him up.  The fact that no one, at a level similar to MU, has wanted him says a lot more than any article or rumor.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: The Lens on September 20, 2022, 01:39:28 PM
I'm glad Jack & Charlie's Dad got his life straigtened out.  But after that, you don't even need to read the byline to know that was Seth Davis not Dana O'Neil or Brian Hamilton.  A masterful slurp of a Duke adjacent subject.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: muwarrior97 on September 20, 2022, 03:36:48 PM
Very well said and I agree. It's nice to read about the humanity and not get so wrapped up in numbers, stats, etc. The Wojo era was an interesting one and disappointing from a results standpoint, but I have no problem with the guy. Glad he's relaxing and enjoying a slower pace of life out west.

Agreed, well said.  I always wished he would succeed and show he could coach, unfortunately the item that seemed lacking was his inability to coach, kind of important for someone with Title of Head Coach.

Seems like a good person, father, husband and brought a lot of high character kids into the program he just didn't succeed with results on the court.  Don't blame the Fanatical fans for the bad experience, you've got 9 MILLION reasons to relax in yoga class or in the back-country
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 20, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
A little harsh, wouldn't you say?

No. You can tell a nice story about Wojo without calling into question the work ethic of our players, lying about our fans, and lying about local media.

The article is repeatedly dishonest and tries to alter history to make Wojo look good. Tell the true story, fine, but you shouldn't have to libel those associated with Marquette to do so.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 20, 2022, 06:09:04 PM
No. You can tell a nice story about Wojo without calling into question the work ethic of our players, lying about our fans, and lying about local media.

The article is repeatedly dishonest and tries to alter history to make Wojo look good. Tell the true story, fine, but you shouldn't have to libel those associated with Marquette to do so.

Libel is key. That’s what it is. Really pathetic “journalism”. I’ve got zero I’ll will toward Wojo and appreciate his time here tbh. However, the blatant lies in the article are sickening.

#FakeNews #Lies #ThePathletic
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MuggsyB on September 20, 2022, 06:23:12 PM
It sounds like a ridiculous, untruthful, and inexcusable article.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WithoutBias on September 20, 2022, 06:40:13 PM
No. You can tell a nice story about Wojo without calling into question the work ethic of our players, lying about our fans, and lying about local media.

The article is repeatedly dishonest and tries to alter history to make Wojo look good. Tell the true story, fine, but you shouldn't have to libel those associated with Marquette to do so.

Libel is key. That’s what it is. Really pathetic “journalism”. I’ve got zero I’ll will toward Wojo and appreciate his time here tbh. However, the blatant lies in the article are sickening.

#FakeNews #Lies #ThePathletic

Libel against…who, exactly?

You’re overreacting.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TSmith34 on September 20, 2022, 06:45:17 PM
Libel is key. That’s what it is. Really pathetic “journalism”. I’ve got zero I’ll will toward Wojo and appreciate his time here tbh. However, the blatant lies in the article are sickening.

#FakeNews #Lies #ThePathletic
ill not I'll
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 20, 2022, 06:46:29 PM
wojo might have practiced tough and played tough as a player, but none of that translated to his coaching.  how often did you see him show any emotion on the sidelines?  if he was so disappointed in his players not giving 110%, he should have been riding their a$$es from the sidelines.  he was afraid of doing anything to hurt joey's feelings.  hell, we saw what happened when markus tried to tell joey to pick it up a little.  wojo should have benched his ass right there.  give him the izzo treatment-coach like ya got a pair.  did he ever go out on a limb for his players, get T'd up to show support during some tough times?

    i wanted him to succeed so bad, but he just ain't got coaching in his dna
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: avid1010 on September 20, 2022, 06:52:43 PM
how often did you see him show any emotion on the sidelines? 
Wtf?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: wadesworld on September 20, 2022, 06:57:12 PM
ill not I'll

Nice.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 20, 2022, 07:02:32 PM
Wtf?

Haha if anything, you could say he showed a little too much. I thought Wojo was pretty tightly wound on the sidelines and it translated to the players. The wild punches when we gave up a basket on big possessions (which was frequent) is one of my lasting images of Wojo.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 20, 2022, 08:08:03 PM
Libel against…who, exactly?

You’re overreacting.

Reading comprehension really isn't that hard.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 20, 2022, 08:15:37 PM
Libel against…who, exactly?

You’re overreacting.

whom, not who
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 20, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
Reading comprehension really isn't that hard.


It meets the dictionary definition of libel I guess. I personally don’t think this damages Marquette’s reputation much at all.

It is far from the legal standard of libel though.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WithoutBias on September 20, 2022, 08:30:30 PM
Reading comprehension really isn't that hard.

Aka I know I got worked up and made a dumb comment so I’ll just try to insult the person who pointed it out.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 20, 2022, 08:37:06 PM
ill not I'll

True. Autocorrect while doing mad dimes isn’t my priority. #DeeperDepere
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TSmith34 on September 20, 2022, 08:45:59 PM
True. Other peoples' typos are obviously their priority.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: lostpassword on September 20, 2022, 09:04:04 PM
In addition to the comments already mentioned by others, I find it interesting that the article doesn't include any real reflection on things learned from Wojo's experience relative to recruiting, team management, coaching, etc.  I kept waiting for the new-headcoach-Wojo to mature into the seasoned-headcoach-Wojo but a stubborn "my way is the best way and if we keep doing it it will evenutally work" pervaded within games, within seasons, and even across seasons.  He may have "tried too hard" but I hope he took more away from the 7 years that than if he's going to get back into the game.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: The Lens on September 20, 2022, 10:07:46 PM
Gave up alcohol.  Hmmm.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 05:15:43 AM
Aka I know I got worked up and made a dumb comment so I’ll just try to insult the person who pointed it out.

The first part of the post defines the whom. Will it be a court case? Obviously not. Are there lies written in the article about Marquette's fans and Milwaukee's local media to discredit Wojo's critics? Obviously so.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 05:54:50 AM
The first part of the post defines the whom. Will it be a court case? Obviously not. Are there lies written in the article about Marquette's fans and Milwaukee's local media to discredit Wojo's critics? Obviously so.


I know this is splitting hairs, but those lies weren’t meant to discredit his critics as much as they were to portray him as a sympathetic figure.

In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.

Regardless it’s a trash article.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 06:29:12 AM
Shaka aged 45, Buzz aged 50,  Wojo aged 46. Compare head coaching resumes of peers.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 21, 2022, 07:19:04 AM
In addition to the comments already mentioned by others, I find it interesting that the article doesn't include any real reflection on things learned from Wojo's experience relative to recruiting, team management, coaching, etc.  I kept waiting for the new-headcoach-Wojo to mature into the seasoned-headcoach-Wojo but a stubborn "my way is the best way and if we keep doing it it will evenutally work" pervaded within games, within seasons, and even across seasons.  He may have "tried too hard" but I hope he took more away from the 7 years that than if he's going to get back into the game.

I think that this is a fair assessment of Wojo as a head coach. I wish the guy well, but I think you're right and I'm glad we moved on. Hopefully he's not just working on his physical flexibility in Park City.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WithoutBias on September 21, 2022, 07:19:42 AM

I know this is splitting hairs, but those lies weren’t meant to discredit his critics as much as they were to portray him as a sympathetic figure.

In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.

Regardless it’s a trash article.

This is exactly right. Wojo and Seth Davis aren’t out there like “we got screwed by MU. Let’s air the dirty laundry!”

Quit being so sensitive to every little thing that might make MU look anything but beautiful. Some statements weren’t facts? They got the year wrong on some chants? Oh no! Someone said some players didn’t play as hard as they could? Well, if that’s libel there are a lot of Scoopers in trouble!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Scoop Snoop on September 21, 2022, 07:46:25 AM

I know this is splitting hairs, but those lies weren’t meant to discredit his critics as much as they were to portray him as a sympathetic figure.

In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.

Regardless it’s a trash article.

If the author did not use the first part of the bolded to accomplish the second part, I think most people here would have been fine with it.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2022, 07:49:06 AM
Wojo is tanned, rested, and ready.   
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 07:53:26 AM
If the author did not use the first part of the bolded to accomplish the second part, I think most people here would have been fine with it.


The fans chanting and the press turning on him, while inaccurate, are hardly indictments of Marquette. That pretty much happens everywhere there is an unsuccessful coach.

I doubt any reader not related to Wojo would come away from that thinking "Man that Marquette fanbase is a bunch of nutjobs with unrealistic expectations."
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 21, 2022, 08:04:46 AM


In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.


When you’re determined to write a “pro” piece about a situation that resulted in failure you necessarily have to make excuses and shift blame. Truth gives way to things imagined.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 21, 2022, 08:07:08 AM
Wojo is tanned, rested, and ready.

And rich.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 08:07:37 AM
When you’re determined to write a “pro” piece about a situation that resulted in failure you necessarily have to make excuses and shift blame. Truth gives way to things imagined.

I guess. I don't think the article really claimed that Wojo didn't fail. He most certainly did, and no spin is going to change that.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: NCMUFan on September 21, 2022, 08:34:08 AM
Even the ghost of Wojo raising blood pressures?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 21, 2022, 08:37:22 AM
Wojo is tanned, rested, and ready.
Wojo = Crean?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2022, 08:37:46 AM
Who cares
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: swoopem on September 21, 2022, 08:39:09 AM
And rich.

I can’t image how rich I’d be if I quit drinking
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: wadesworld on September 21, 2022, 08:49:43 AM
How many people out there are actually reading articles on Steve Wojciechowski on The Athletic?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 08:56:11 AM
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: dgies9156 on September 21, 2022, 09:03:09 AM
I can’t image how rich I’d be if I quit drinking

It's Utah, for heaven's sake. Getting booze is about as easy as winning the lottery!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 09:09:24 AM
Some Scoopers get big mad over the weirdest of sh!t.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 09:12:04 AM
It's Utah, for heaven's sake. Getting booze is about as easy as winning the lottery!

Having lived in Utah for a short spell, the booze flows very freely, at least in Salt Lake City. Southern Utah may be a bit different
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2022, 09:16:42 AM
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Madison media is tough on the Badgers according to those that cover them and Barry Alvarez
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 21, 2022, 09:43:01 AM
Having lived in Utah for a short spell, the booze flows very freely, at least in Salt Lake City. Southern Utah may be a bit different

Yeah, it's not difficult to get. But, they do keep pretty close track of who gets it. They card and scan the ID of everyone who goes into a bar. The first time I went into a bar with my son I joked, "do you want my ID too?" and the answer was a definitive "yes." They also meter all of the booze out of liquor bottles which is also a little unusual (at least in my experience).
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: We R Final Four on September 21, 2022, 09:56:41 AM
https://youtu.be/7m0f2Dm6x6A
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Elonsmusk on September 21, 2022, 10:13:55 AM
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: 4everwarriors on September 21, 2022, 10:20:54 AM
Crean sucks
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 10:22:33 AM
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 21, 2022, 10:25:28 AM
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

I can think of $9 million reasons why I don't feel bad for any flack he takes.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 10:27:44 AM
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.


If Dukiet would have been around during the message board era, the vitriol would have been off the charts.  Wojo didn't face that much really.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 10:28:25 AM
I can think of $9 million reasons why I don't feel bad for any flack he takes.

Nobody asked you to.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 21, 2022, 10:30:00 AM
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

I think if Wojo coached at MU 25 years ago, he would be talked about a lot less. Buzz and Crean were pretty successful coaches and both get their fair share of criticism still. I think it just comes with the territory of coaching in the 21st century.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: jfp61 on September 21, 2022, 10:41:15 AM
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job. Oniel left the program in decent shape before going to Tennessee. Mike Deane had a post season win and a decent conference record. Buzz despite destroying the program, won here. No one is going to have hostility for "pre Al" guys.

Nearly none of the hostility towards wojo is personal, and most of it is warranted.  Not a lot else to say on the matter.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Seth Davis and The Athletic are scheming to get Wojo another job and it's up to the brave anonymous souls of Scoop to warn universities across the land - by complaining on Scoop about an article - before they make a monumental mistake.
Got it.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 21, 2022, 11:02:30 AM
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on September 21, 2022, 11:14:01 AM
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job. Oniel left the program in decent shape before going to Tennessee. Mike Deane had a post season win and a decent conference record. Buzz despite destroying the program, won here. No one is going to have hostility for "pre Al" guys.

Nearly none of the hostility towards wojo is personal, and most of it is warranted.  Not a lot else to say on the matter.

If he’s an unsuccessful coach, isn’t it in our best interest not to bad mouth him now so our competition hires him? We need to be thinking 3D chess here!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Local mainstream media also includes sports radio, Racine (Woeful), Madison, TV, Cable. I don't recall any of them calling for Wojo's head. Maybe they did but that was hardly heat.

Maybe half of Scoop did.  But they also accused Wojo of starting COVID.

End of the day, he didn't want to take his bosses' suggestions for improvement in his annual review. Sadly, he died by his own hand.

Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 11:20:22 AM
Local mainstream media also includes sports radio, Racine (Woeful), Madison, TV, Cable. I don't recall any of them calling for Wojo's head. Maybe they did but that was hardly heat.

They didn't call for his head. They didn't talk about him at all. I think that's more a product of apathy which is arguably a greater sin.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 11:34:23 AM
They didn't call for his head. They didn't talk about him at all. I think that's more a product of apathy which is arguably a greater sin.

Quote
"As the fans and media turned on him"

So his rub then was the media never "turned on" excluding the "him"  "Turn me on dead man".

What did Chicos used to claim?  "Ghosts in the machine"?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 11:35:28 AM
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job.


Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close. 
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 11:43:48 AM
So his rub then was the media never "turned on" excluding the "him"  "Turn me on dead man".

What did Chicos used to claim?  "Ghosts in the machine"?

No, I think his rub was that the Marquette Wire, Paint Touches, AE, and Cracked Sidewalks turned on him who are all part of the local media that report on Marquette.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing that criticism. It was all well earned. But I don't think it's false to say that that the local media had turned on him.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: real chili 83 on September 21, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

To your point, Ben Steele wrote after Whathisface got canned that the had to be very careful about negativity because it was strongly implied that access would be denied.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MU82 on September 21, 2022, 12:07:59 PM
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

Agree with all that, Nrs. Very good analysis.

What I disliked most was Wojo playing the victim (and Davis helping him do it). It's big-boy sports -- you aren't paid to coach, you're paid to win, and he didn't do enough of it.

I also agree with TAMU that some in the local media were critical of Wojo, and rightly so. It's not Ben Steele's job to rip the people he covers, and the Journal Sentinel apparently cares so little about Marquette basketball that its columnist rarely (if ever) bothered to opine on Wojo. But online voices did speak up, and that's good. There are other towns in which Wojo would have been ripped so mercilessly that he really would have felt like a victim. His reaction at a few press conferences to reasonable questions showed him to be thin-skinned and aloof. I thought the time he went after the student journalist was his low point off the court, and it reflected poorly on his character.

As for the fans, I don't remember "fire Wojo" chants, but I was there a couple times when he was booed. One was the Villanova game in Jan 2020. I was sitting in front of a half-dozen Nova fans who had made the trip from Philly. After Wojo was booed during pre-game introductions, I overheard one Nova fan ask, "Wow, did they just boo their own coach?" In reality, I'd say it was less than a couple hundred fans who booed, but they definitely were heard. Still, suggesting that fan discontent was part of the cause of Wojo's difficulties as a college head coach ... that's effen weak victimhood shyte.

Looking back, the Wojo Error was a failure. I was more patient and optimistic than most, and that ended up being frustrating for me, and I give credit to those who saw the impending train wreck a lot earlier than I did.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: panda on September 21, 2022, 12:10:21 PM
Travis Steele aka Xavier Wojo (look out for x this year with a real coach) did what any grinder career coach does when they get fired, he drops down a level (Miami Ohio) to prove himself and try and move back up the ladder.

As much as Wojo want to believe it, grinding is not in his dna. If it was, he’d be back coaching already in some capacity, above the middle school level or outside a cushy Duke set up position with USA basketball.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: #UnleashSean on September 21, 2022, 12:11:48 PM
Another reason for me to fire up the Nojo train for one more year!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: panda on September 21, 2022, 12:14:54 PM

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Comparing the resources of Marquette during Dukiet and Marquette during Wojo, I think it’s much closer than first glance.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: #UnleashSean on September 21, 2022, 12:15:08 PM


Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

And then the next coach went on and did in year 1 that took wojo 5.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: #UnleashSean on September 21, 2022, 12:16:25 PM

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Eh. Wojo had the Fiserv, The Big East, A tradition of winning, a huge fan backing. And still performed terribly.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 21, 2022, 12:18:59 PM
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.

I read the article but I didn't get that vibe.

Frankly, a lot of the article suggested that Wojo is such a grinder and such a basketball lifer that he's never taken a moment for himself and at 45 is learning to do things his peers did 20-25 years ago. I mean simple things like hammering a nail and mowing the lawn.

I wouldn't assume coaching is his definite future. He's got a crap ton of money and will never hurt for employment so perhaps the time spent hiking and biking has availed him that life outside that bubble, especially given the current climate of the sport, can be just fine.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: jfp61 on September 21, 2022, 12:21:07 PM

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Sorry losing my brain a little bit while glancing at a wiki.

Its pretty clearly Dukiet 1. Wojo 2. no matter how you cut it
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: jfp61 on September 21, 2022, 12:23:57 PM
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.

Wasn't it reported he failed to even be a top tier option for the UNLV job right after leaving Marquette? Or am I misremembering something?

He already left being an NBA scout/advisor. That lasted 1 month.

I really don't know what he'll do.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Nukem2 on September 21, 2022, 12:32:37 PM
Sorry losing my brain a little bit while glancing at a wiki.

Its pretty clearly Dukiet 1. Wojo 2. no matter how you cut it
Discounting Wojo’s first season, Majerus’s results were no better than Wojo’s results. Majerus also went to 3 NIT’s with no NCAAs.  Wojo had 2 NCAAs and a probable 3rd cut short by the pandemic along with a nice NIT run.  Not touting Wojo at al here, just noting that Majerus did not wow the world in his MU stint. Both were first time HCs.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MU82 on September 21, 2022, 12:42:39 PM
Wasn't it reported he failed to even be a top tier option for the UNLV job right after leaving Marquette? Or am I misremembering something?

He already left being an NBA scout/advisor. That lasted 1 month.

I really don't know what he'll do.

If he wants to get hired, a P6 program would hire him as an assistant. Those guys are constantly being recycled, and there are enough head coaches out there with Duke and/or national team ties that he'd get a position if he were willing to settle for being an assistant. But if he's looking to be a P5 head coach, he might wait forever.

And then the next coach went on and did in year 1 that took wojo 5.

We can rip Wojo without being inaccurate. Wojo had every bit as much success in his third year as Shaka did this past season. In 2016-17 under Wojo, we won 19 games before losing in R1 of both the BE and NCAA tournaments. In 2021-22 under Shaka, we won 19 games before losing in R1 of both the BE and NCAA tournaments.

Shaka's team had that month-long stretch that gave MU fans the right to puff out our chests, but the crash-and-burn to end the season had a familiar feel to it. Wojo's 2016-17 team actually made the NCAA tournament because they finished with 4 wins in their last 5 games. That also was Wojo's most balanced team by far, and the fact that Markus and Sam were freshmen gave fans who wanted to be optimistic a lot of hope for the future.

Discounting Wojo’s first season, Majerus’s results were no better than Wojo’s results. Majerus also went to 3 NIT’s with no NCAAs.  Wojo had 2 NCAAs and a probable 3rd cut short by the pandemic along with a nice NIT run.  Not touting Wojo at al here, just noting that Majerus did not wow the world in his MU stint. Both were first time HCs.

Yep. We love Rick here because he was around for the greatest era of Marquette basketball, because he went on to have success elsewhere, and because he usually talked fondly about Marquette. But he was not a successful coach at Marquette. Neither was Mike Deane. And obviously Dukiet.

It sucks that we have to talk about our failed coaches!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: barfolomew on September 21, 2022, 12:48:40 PM

Maybe half of Scoop did.  But they also accused Wojo of starting COVID.


Has it ever been proved he didn't?
I'm just asking questions here.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 12:50:42 PM

I know this is splitting hairs, but those lies weren’t meant to discredit his critics as much as they were to portray him as a sympathetic figure.

In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.

Regardless it’s a trash article.

In order to be pro-Wojo, it took an anti-Marquette slant. And it becomes more problematic when there are inaccuracies that lead to that. If Lindsay misremembers 2020-21, fine, but it's on Seth Davis to look into that and see if there actually were a slew of "Fire Wojo" chants. With no fans, that obviously was false. Some of the students booed during the final stretch of 2019-20, which led to them really speeding the Markus Howard to Steve Wojciechowski introduction transition to make it harder to cheer the former and boo the latter.

As you note, trash article, but if it was an accurate trash article it wouldn't be getting the push back it is. All that said, Andy really hits it accurately, with receipts included:

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Here's why I contend it's false. Because Marquette doesn't treat those outlets as local media. To a limited extent, they grant some access to Paint Touches. They give virtually nothing to AE despite the main writer working for the University and virtually nothing to Cracked Sidewalks. I don't remember Wire criticisms at the time. If they were critical, I wasn't paying much attention.

For the most part, the local media is friendly to Marquette or simply ignores MU Basketball. But I think that's radically different than turning on him. Particularly when they rope in the social media comments, where Wojo deleted his account before it really got bad, so the only way he saw it was if he was deliberately seeking it out.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 21, 2022, 12:55:43 PM
In order to be pro-Wojo,

I think you meant “projo”
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 12:59:09 PM
Crap, wasn't the Zoe Comerford Projo article from the Wire? That was the opposite of turning on him.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 01:14:49 PM
No, I think his rub was that the Marquette Wire, Paint Touches, AE, and Cracked Sidewalks turned on him who are all part of the local media that report on Marquette.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing that criticism. It was all well earned. But I don't think it's false to say that that the local media had turned on him.

"The Case Against" came out 3/18. He was crap canned 3/19. So Wojo had one bad day of "fire me" media?  When his boss had already made his decision to go to the BOT?

That is some Charmin Soft for Wojo.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 21, 2022, 01:36:55 PM
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

Yup
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 21, 2022, 01:39:01 PM
At least Wojo had Marquette Madness events
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 01:49:39 PM
"The Case Against" came out 3/18. He was crap canned 3/19. So Wojo had one bad day of "fire me" media?  When his boss had already made his decision to go to the BOT?

That is some Charmin Soft for Wojo.

There was a lot before "the case against" and you know that. Go back and check the social media accounts of all of the fan blogs.

Again, not criticizing the criticism. But I don't think it's unfair to say that by the end most of the media that actually bothered to cover Marquette was more negative than positive (again for good reason)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2022, 02:05:51 PM
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: jfp61 on September 21, 2022, 02:11:26 PM
At least Wojo had Marquette Madness events

Which he nearly killed himself at trying to ride ATVs.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Markusquette on September 21, 2022, 02:19:10 PM
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

Sounds like Brewtown Andy was personally offended by Wojo many times
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 21, 2022, 02:34:33 PM
Which he nearly killed himself at trying to ride ATVs.

Pretty sure that was Crean. In full Karate outfit with I think Crocs.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 21, 2022, 02:39:13 PM
I think there were some critical AE and Paint Touches pieces. But I also don’t think they were out of line and probably pretty tame.

I also think Wojo has very thin skin, so I can definitely see the negative treatment being embellished.

One of the moments I’ll never forget is him losing it at a press conference when a student reporter or Andrei asked him a pretty harmless question using his own words. It was in the middle of a losing streak and I think to the effect of “You said a few weeks ago there were things you were focusing on to be a better coach, what are some of those things.”
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WithoutBias on September 21, 2022, 02:43:38 PM
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 02:43:46 PM
There was a lot before "the case against" and you know that. Go back and check the social media accounts of all of the fan blogs.

Again, not criticizing the criticism. But I don't think it's unfair to say that by the end most of the media that actually bothered to cover Marquette was more negative than positive (again for good reason)

As we've noted, the legacy media (JS, TV, radio) were either supportive or simply ignored the topic. Zoe Comerford at Marquette Wire wrote two pieces supporting Wojo in the 3 weeks before he was fired, so I have a hard time saying Wire went after him.

Wojo deleted his Twitter in 2019, so if he was hearing from AE, PT, and CS on there (none of us use Instagram or other forms of social media much) he was searching it out. Same goes for the Marquette podcasts, which had various levels of criticism but are something you need to be pretty diehard or deliberate to find. And as Wojo and those around him really shut the blogs out of the Marquette "media" circle, I have a tough time believing that he saw any of us as "media" until the moment The Case Against started circulating among the Board of Trustees.

If you're one of the maybe 2% of nerds diehard enough to follow the podcasts, blogs, and message boards ardently, then you probably remember the 2021 fallout that led to his firing. But for 98% of fans and for the even broader general public, it was at most an eyedropper into an ocean until about 24 hours before the axe fell.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

(https://c.tenor.com/luimz-WLbjwAAAAC/time-too.gif)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2022, 02:52:56 PM
My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

It’s a piece done to show how out of tune Seth Davis is as much as it is a takedown of Wojo by AE.  National media in college sports have long too often been mouthpieces for coaches and ADs. 
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 03:01:18 PM
My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

Sort of like you by clicking on it, reading it, and repeatedly responding to posts about the general topic?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 03:09:10 PM
As we've noted, the legacy media (JS, TV, radio) were either supportive or simply ignored the topic. Zoe Comerford at Marquette Wire wrote two pieces supporting Wojo in the 3 weeks before he was fired, so I have a hard time saying Wire went after him.

Wojo deleted his Twitter in 2019, so if he was hearing from AE, PT, and CS on there (none of us use Instagram or other forms of social media much) he was searching it out. Same goes for the Marquette podcasts, which had various levels of criticism but are something you need to be pretty diehard or deliberate to find. And as Wojo and those around him really shut the blogs out of the Marquette "media" circle, I have a tough time believing that he saw any of us as "media" until the moment The Case Against started circulating among the Board of Trustees.

If you're one of the maybe 2% of nerds diehard enough to follow the podcasts, blogs, and message boards ardently, then you probably remember the 2021 fallout that led to his firing. But for 98% of fans and for the even broader general public, it was at most an eyedropper into an ocean until about 24 hours before the axe fell.

I don't remember what Wire author it was but one of their male opinion authors wrote a pretty scathing article on Wojo before Zoe's.

The only thing the article says is "As the losses continued to pile up, the fans and media turned on him." That's it. And it's a factual statement. It doesn't say all media turned on him. There just isn't a lot of media that covers Marquette basketball.

What you seem to be arguing now is not "the media didn't turn on Wojo" to "the media did turn on Wojo but I don't believe he viewed that media as legitimate media so it's not fair of him to say that the media turned on him". Which I don't think personally matters especially since I think that particular line came from Davis not from Wojo.

The bits about the "Fire Wojo chants" during the COVID season and Wojo only being on the bench for 5 years are laughable mistakes that Davis should be ragged on for making. I just don't see this one line as particularly offensive. And the rest of the article was fine. I personally don't read it as anti-Marquette at all. The article doesn't say anything about the fans or media turning on Wojo being wrong or unwarranted. It just says it happened after the losses piled up which I read as putting the blame on Wojo for losing too much. The putting the blame on the players was a little eyebrow raising but that came from Coach Carrawell. The only criticism towards Marquette is from Mrs. Wojo about the fire Wojo chants and I'm not going to fault a spouse for taking offense at her husband being publicly booed.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: cheebs09 on September 21, 2022, 03:14:02 PM
I read the article but I didn't get that vibe.

Frankly, a lot of the article suggested that Wojo is such a grinder and such a basketball lifer that he's never taken a moment for himself and at 45 is learning to do things his peers did 20-25 years ago. I mean simple things like hammering a nail and mowing the lawn.

I wouldn't assume coaching is his definite future. He's got a crap ton of money and will never hurt for employment so perhaps the time spent hiking and biking has availed him that life outside that bubble, especially given the current climate of the sport, can be just fine.

Thanks. I appreciate the background. That must mostly be my perception on why he hasn’t been hired.

If memory serves, I thought there were some rumors he reached out to UNLV to reset his coaching clock and they weren’t all that interested. With all the UNLV coaching changes, I may be getting my times mixed up.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WithoutBias on September 21, 2022, 03:20:23 PM
Sort of like you by clicking on it, reading it, and repeatedly responding to posts about the general topic?

Yes.  I'm a Marquette basketball fan who comes to MUScoop.  I would fall under that "die-hard Marquette fan" category that might've seen this article.  And honestly, I subscribe to The Athletic and probably would not have even seen the article had I not come to Scoop and seen the thread on it.  It's a total non-issue.

This thread is why multiple podcasts make joking remarks about how whiny and annoying Marquette fans are.  They will throw us out there randomly on a completely unrelated note just to take a jab at our fanbase for this.  A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.  It's absurd.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 03:21:38 PM
What you seem to be arguing now is not "the media didn't turn on Wojo" to "the media did turn on Wojo but I don't believe he viewed that media as legitimate media so it's not fair of him to say that the media turned on him". Which I don't think personally matters especially since I think that particular line came from Davis not from Wojo.

No, what I'm arguing is that recognized media outlets didn't turn on him, and using a few blogs criticizing him to say "the media turned on him" is like sourcing a couple Scoop posts as "the fans turned against him."

Honestly, if Seth is looking at AE, CS, and PT as "the media" I think he gives us vastly more credit as reputable outlets than anyone outside of a very small segment of the Marquette community, and a segment that Wojo himself was never a part of.

It seems pretty clear that the only people Davis talked to about this article were Wojo, his family, and people he worked with at Duke. And it's equally clear he didn't do any fact checking on what those people said. Either Wojo or Lindsay said the media turned against him and Davis ran with that. But coming from one of those two, calling the mubbPAC contributors "the media" is a particularly rich assertion.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Scoop Snoop on September 21, 2022, 03:22:39 PM
Steve Lavin technically left on his own, but he was perfectly honest about why he was an announcer on Fox. After he congratulated a coach for a big win, the coach thanked Lavin and added something like "you've had some big wins too Steve". With a big smile on his face, Lavin quickly came back with "Not often enough! That's why I'm here".

And then there's Wojo and his excuses. The contrast between the two coaches is huge.


Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: wadesworld on September 21, 2022, 03:24:36 PM
It seems pretty clear that the only people Davis talked to about this article were Wojo, his family, and people he worked with at Duke. And it's equally clear he didn't do any fact checking on what those people said. Either Wojo or Lindsay said the media turned against him and Davis ran with that. But coming from one of those two, calling the mubbPAC contributors "the media" is a particularly rich assertion.

Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 03:31:51 PM
Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.

Seth is a reporter. His job is to produce accurate journalism. You can write a positive piece about Wojo without lying, which he does repeatedly in this story either because he doesn't know or because he didn't care enough to fact check. Either way, it's failed journalism.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 03:32:22 PM
Yes.  I'm a Marquette basketball fan who comes to MUScoop.  I would fall under that "die-hard Marquette fan" category that might've seen this article.  And honestly, I subscribe to The Athletic and probably would not have even seen the article had I not come to Scoop and seen the thread on it.  It's a total non-issue.

This thread is why multiple podcasts make joking remarks about how whiny and annoying Marquette fans are.  They will throw us out there randomly on a completely unrelated note just to take a jab at our fanbase for this.  A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.  It's absurd.

Seth and The Athletic will be sorry when we sue them for libel.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: wadesworld on September 21, 2022, 03:38:31 PM
Seth is a reporter. His job is to produce accurate journalism. You can write a positive piece about Wojo without lying, which he does repeatedly in this story either because he doesn't know or because he didn't care enough to fact check. Either way, it's failed journalism.

Agreed.  It's not accurate and it's bad writing.  But he wasn't going to interview 100 people for the article.  He needed some people who knew what Wojo's day to day life is like now (his wife) and a couple higher profile people who have worked with him professionally (K and Carawell).
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 03:40:52 PM
I'm just not seeing the need for outrage here. There's a lot more sour grapes in this thread and the AE article than anything said in the Athletic article.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 03:40:54 PM
A puff piece about a coach that nobody really cares about nationwide turns into Marquette fans acting like Seth Davis just claimed the Marquette athletic department is worse than Michigan State and Penn State ever were.

This is just as inaccurate as what Davis wrote. I dislike that he lied repeatedly in the article and seemed to think the best way to make Wojo look good was by making those around Wojo look bad, as though he was a victim rather than bad at his job.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 21, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
...but the crash-and-burn to end the season had a familiar feel to it.

Did it ever! I really hope it was a one-time aberration for Shaka because I'm so, so tired of that creeping sick feeling I've had the last several years in February and March.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 03:44:04 PM
This is just as inaccurate as what Davis wrote. I dislike that he lied repeatedly in the article and seemed to think the best way to make Wojo look good was by making those around Wojo look bad, as though he was a victim rather than bad at his job.

This is the part I don't get, I didn't get that from the article at all other than the one line by Carrawell about players not working hard enough which was something. Other than that one line, I don't see how this article makes anyone around Wojo look bad. Davis never says that the boos, the fans turning, the media turning or even the termination were bad or unwarranted. He just said that they happened.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MU82 on September 21, 2022, 03:46:00 PM
Seth's agenda was to paint Wojo in a good light.  Do you really think he was going to call around to Marquette people and ask their thoughts on Wojo?  This isn't some research piece.

I hear what you're saying, but the lack of any comment from anybody Wojo worked with at Marquette or any player Wojo coached at Marquette was glaring. Heck, even if he wanted to paint Wojo in a positive light (which he obviously did), don't you call Markus Howard, who became the school's all-time scorer thanks in great part to Wojo encouraging him to shoot just about every time he touched the ball? Or maybe Theo John? And the article begged for at least a no-comment from Scholl.

And though the savage AE reaction was way over the top, it cracked me up in a few spots because it highlighted a few things that I thought "huh" as I read them: The reference to Wojo as having been "doughy." ...The mention of Wojo reading 20 minutes a day, as if that's what, an accomplishment? ... The fact about the $9M buyout, because I thought I had read $7M repeatedly here on Scoop and elsewhere. ... The Carrawell quote asking Wojo if he wanted to win the practice or the game.

Anyhoo ... it all makes me feel glad that Wojo is gone.

Now it's Shaka's job to do what Wojo couldn't: Build a great basketball program for our alma mater.

We Are Marquette!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 04:07:27 PM
This is the part I don't get, I didn't get that from the article at all other than the one line by Carrawell about players not working hard enough which was something. Other than that one line, I don't see how this article makes anyone around Wojo look bad. Davis never says that the boos, the fans turning, the media turning or even the termination were bad or unwarranted. He just said that they happened.

But it didn't. Fans that weren't there certainly weren't booing. If fans were turning it was on an app Wojo deleted, so he had to actively search out that negativity. The media didn't turn. He used things that weren't actually happening to make Wojo sympathetic.

It would be like saying "Wojo was hurt when fans like brew booed at games" when I wasn't there and never booed Wojo or his teams.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Comparing the resources of Marquette during Dukiet and Marquette during Wojo, I think it’s much closer than first glance.
Eh. Wojo had the Fiserv, The Big East, A tradition of winning, a huge fan backing. And still performed terribly.


Anyone who thinks that Wojo was worse than Bob-f*cking*-Dukiet needs to get their head out of their a$$ right now. It's not even close. Not remotely close.

Wojo had three (if you count 2020) NCAA appearances and an NIT appearance. He recruited well. There were good times with him as coach - big wins against top programs with the Fiserv rocking.

Dukiet had little to none of any of that.  He recruited Tony Smith so that was good.  One NIT appearance - ending a streak of something like 25 years in a row of appearing in the postseason. Just awful.

Learn your history.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 04:18:43 PM
The Fire Wojo chants happened maybe twice from a miniscule minority in the student section in 2020. But in that stretch where we lost 6/7 down the stretch, 4 were road games. And most fans scoffed at those chants because the losses were to top-15 teams in Creighton and Seton Hall.

After losing to #15 SHU in February 29, 2020, Wojo didn't face a home crowd until the tiny Senior Day attendees.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 04:18:47 PM
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

This is why I can only take so much of AE.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2022, 04:20:53 PM
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 04:22:22 PM
But it didn't. Fans that weren't there certainly weren't booing. If fans were turning it was on an app Wojo deleted, so he had to actively search out that negativity. The media didn't turn. He used things that weren't actually happening to make Wojo sympathetic.

It would be like saying "Wojo was hurt when fans like brew booed at games" when I wasn't there and never booed Wojo or his teams.

First, fans absolutely booed Wojo and chanted Fire Wojo, it just wasn't during the COVID season. We'll disagree about the media turning. And Wojo turning off twitter (due to the hate he was getting on twitter) doesn't mean the tweets didn't exist.

Second, none of this is anti-Marquette or makes Marquette look bad in any way. If you want to say Seth Davis went over the top trying to make Wojo look sympathetic, sure. But that doesn't make it anti-Marquette.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: mileskishnish72 on September 21, 2022, 04:24:59 PM
With a big smile on his face, Lavin quickly came back with "Not often enough! That's why I'm here".


And if you've ever seen Lavin's wife you'd understand why he almost always has a big smile on his face.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: LAZER on September 21, 2022, 04:30:07 PM
This is why I can only take so much of AE.
You don't want 5000 words recapping a Seth Davis fluff piece on Wojo???
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 04:32:57 PM
You don't want 5000 words recapping a Seth Davis fluff piece on Wojo???

Harping on the slightest inaccuracy and perceived slight? No thanks.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2022, 04:43:35 PM
Harping on the slightest inaccuracy and perceived slight? No thanks.
Teal implied?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 04:44:38 PM
Teal implied?

I LOLed.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: brewcity77 on September 21, 2022, 04:49:22 PM
First, fans absolutely booed Wojo and chanted Fire Wojo, it just wasn't during the COVID season. We'll disagree about the media turning. And Wojo turning off twitter (due to the hate he was getting on twitter) doesn't mean the tweets didn't exist.

He was booed in intros, which is why they had the super speedy Howard into Wojo intro. The chants were tiny and a minority of a minority, and happened in very few games. It was never constant the way the article and seemingly Lindsay describe it.

I'm not saying he was beloved. He wasn't. But there are exaggerations and outright lies to make him sympathetic and it's not really debatable.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Markusquette on September 21, 2022, 04:52:39 PM
He was booed in intros, which is why they had the super speedy Howard into Wojo intro. The chants were tiny and a minority of a minority, and happened in very few games. It was never constant the way the article and seemingly Lindsay describe it.

I'm not saying he was beloved. He wasn't. But there are exaggerations and outright lies to make him sympathetic and it's not really debatable.

Sure. Even the worst of the worst coaches will likely be booed by an overwhelming minority of attending fans. It seems the majority of that small group booing Wojo back in 2020 were likely just drunk students. Wasn't there also a fire Wojo sign in a dorm window?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: panda on September 21, 2022, 04:54:46 PM

Anyone who thinks that Wojo was worse than Bob-f*cking*-Dukiet needs to get their head out of their a$$ right now. It's not even close. Not remotely close.

Wojo had three (if you count 2020) NCAA appearances and an NIT appearance. He recruited well. There were good times with him as coach - big wins against top programs with the Fiserv rocking.

Dukiet had little to none of any of that.  He recruited Tony Smith so that was good.  One NIT appearance - ending a streak of something like 25 years in a row of appearing in the postseason. Just awful.

Learn your history.


Good point sultan - right as always !
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2022, 04:57:39 PM
I LOLed.
;D
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Boone on September 21, 2022, 05:08:52 PM
Pretty sure Tony Smith was a Majerus recruit who stayed with the program, so Dukiet doesn't even deserve that credit
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: wadesworld on September 21, 2022, 05:10:33 PM
But it didn't. Fans that weren't there certainly weren't booing. If fans were turning it was on an app Wojo deleted, so he had to actively search out that negativity. The media didn't turn. He used things that weren't actually happening to make Wojo sympathetic.

It would be like saying "Wojo was hurt when fans like brew booed at games" when I wasn't there and never booed Wojo or his teams.

The guy got his year wrong.  Or his wife got the year wrong.  Yes, it's bad he didn't fact check that.  But fans were absolutely booing Wojo.  There were threads on Scoop at the time it happened.  There were people making comments on Instagram and siting them on MUScoop.  Heck, YOU SAID IT YOURSELF IN THIS THREAD that they sped up the gap between Markus introduction and Wojo's introduction so that fans no longer had the opportunity to boo Wojo!

There were links to previous AE articles in today's AE article proving receipts on negative press from them before Wojo was fired.

These things did happen.  You're just as inaccurate about it as Seth Davis is in getting the year wrong that these things were happening in.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 21, 2022, 05:10:59 PM
Pretty sure Tony Smith was a Majerus recruit who stayed with the program, so Dukiet doesn't even deserve that credit

Probably. I’m trying to remember what Dukiet’s biggest win actually was. And I got nothing.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Boone on September 21, 2022, 05:14:06 PM
Trevor Powell?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 21, 2022, 05:16:05 PM
Probably. I’m trying to remember what Dukiet’s biggest win actually was. And I got nothing.

Beat an NCAA-bound DePaul team in his final season.
Beat Wisconsin in his first game at MU (a bad, Steve Yoder UW team, but Wisconsin nonetheless).
That's all I got.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 21, 2022, 05:40:39 PM
My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

Sir, this is the off-season.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 21, 2022, 05:47:55 PM
I’ll calm down when a prison sentence is handed to for Seth Davis.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: NCMUFan on September 21, 2022, 06:25:41 PM

Anyone who thinks that Wojo was worse than Bob-f*cking*-Dukiet needs to get their head out of their a$$ right now. It's not even close. Not remotely close.

Wojo had three (if you count 2020) NCAA appearances and an NIT appearance. He recruited well. There were good times with him as coach - big wins against top programs with the Fiserv rocking.

Dukiet had little to none of any of that.  He recruited Tony Smith so that was good.  One NIT appearance - ending a streak of something like 25 years in a row of appearing in the postseason. Just awful.

Learn your history.
Marquette and Wojo are probably in better places now. 
Wojo might still be coach if not for Hausergate.  Maybe consistently in the upper half of the Big East.  But that is all speculation. 
Hopefully Shaka lands good players that buy into that individual success is directly connected to team success.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 21, 2022, 06:39:20 PM
I'm not saying he was beloved. He wasn't. But there are exaggerations and outright lies to make him sympathetic and it's not really debatable.

Again, I'm not denying that Seth Davis stretched the truth in order to make Wojo seem sympathetic. I'm challenging the idea that the article is somehow anti-Marquette.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: mileskishnish72 on September 21, 2022, 07:15:35 PM
Far too much time and attention devoted to a failed coach.

Total puff piece from another Dukie.

Anyone who doesn't think that it's a screed for another job should consider the quote: "I'm a better coach now than the day I was fired at Marquette."

See ya.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 07:17:53 PM
I hear what you're saying, but the lack of any comment from anybody Wojo worked with at Marquette or any player Wojo coached at Marquette was glaring. Heck, even if he wanted to paint Wojo in a positive light (which he obviously did), don't you call Markus Howard, who became the school's all-time scorer thanks in great part to Wojo encouraging him to shoot just about every time he touched the ball? Or maybe Theo John? And the article begged for at least a no-comment from Scholl.

And though the savage AE reaction was way over the top, it cracked me up in a few spots because it highlighted a few things that I thought "huh" as I read them: The reference to Wojo as having been "doughy." ...The mention of Wojo reading 20 minutes a day, as if that's what, an accomplishment? ... The fact about the $9M buyout, because I thought I had read $7M repeatedly here on Scoop and elsewhere. ... The Carrawell quote asking Wojo if he wanted to win the practice or the game.

Anyhoo ... it all makes me feel glad that Wojo is gone.

Now it's Shaka's job to do what Wojo couldn't: Build a great basketball program for our alma mater.

We Are Marquette!

+1

It's a Duke shill piece, written by a Dukie with quotes from K and K. My godness, he took the time to quote the Hot Yoga Mama but couldn't find the time to call Broeker?

That said, Jimmy Sexton needs some agent money from his client once the MU Cash Train runs out of coal.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 21, 2022, 07:24:41 PM
Again, I'm not denying that Seth Davis stretched the truth in order to make Wojo seem sympathetic. I'm challenging the idea that the article is somehow anti-Marquette.

“Stretched the truth” = lies, or no?

“I never lie! I only stretch the truth!”
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: willie warrior on September 21, 2022, 07:59:17 PM

Anyone who thinks that Wojo was worse than Bob-f*cking*-Dukiet needs to get their head out of their a$$ right now. It's not even close. Not remotely close.

Wojo had three (if you count 2020) NCAA appearances and an NIT appearance. He recruited well. There were good times with him as coach - big wins against top programs with the Fiserv rocking.

Dukiet had little to none of any of that.  He recruited Tony Smith so that was good.  One NIT appearance - ending a streak of something like 25 years in a row of appearing in the postseason. Just awful.

Learn your history.
Wellll....Dukiet was a better piano player than Wojo...so there is that!

Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: JakeBarnes on September 21, 2022, 08:09:31 PM
So is Wojo gonna be an assistant here or no?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 21, 2022, 08:19:33 PM
You guys are sooo fcking boring and you all suck....I have no electrical power and water and like who cares. We're going to keep on looking at the past, move forward I say. F this.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: real chili 83 on September 21, 2022, 08:38:06 PM
You guys are sooo fcking boring and you all suck....I have no electrical power and water and like who cares. We're going to keep on looking at the past, move forward I say. F this.

¿Demasiado vino roja?

 ;D

Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 21, 2022, 08:44:11 PM
¿Demasiado vino roja?

 ;D
As I said extremely bored. Lots of other people suffering and this thread is stupid!!! You doing better?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 21, 2022, 08:48:18 PM
You guys are sooo fcking boring and you all suck....I have no electrical power and water and like who cares. We're going to keep on looking at the past, move forward I say. F this.

I am starting a virtual Scoop Hot Yoga group if you are needing some stress relief.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/funny-fat-man-doing-sports-yoga-mat-online-looking-laptop-206878684.jpg)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2022, 08:54:37 PM
As I said extremely bored. Lots of other people suffering and this thread is stupid!!! You doing better?

Thank you for speaking the truth about this thread and trying to provide perspective.   Thought and prayers and donations.  (Love World Central Kitchen)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 21, 2022, 08:56:50 PM
I am starting a virtual Scoop Hot Yoga group if you are needing some stress relief.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/funny-fat-man-doing-sports-yoga-mat-online-looking-laptop-206878684.jpg)

My yoga place offered to train teachers too but didn’t offer me $9M. #wojohardlife
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 21, 2022, 09:40:56 PM
I am starting a virtual Scoop Hot Yoga group if you are needing some stress relief.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/funny-fat-man-doing-sports-yoga-mat-online-looking-laptop-206878684.jpg)
Will do brother doc
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 21, 2022, 09:43:22 PM
Thank you for speaking the truth about this thread and trying to provide perspective.   Thought and prayers and donations.  (Love World Central Kitchen)
Right on Tower, but not bitter. Needed to have fun and blow some steam. Peace
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TSmith34 on September 21, 2022, 10:07:34 PM

Good point sultan - right as always !
In this instance, unquestionably.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 21, 2022, 11:12:22 PM
Brew certainly chose an interesting hill to die on today. 
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3KWHzadf2Iq64/200w.gif?cid=82a1493boi7r65p6sgwqsm3w3nt3ts4e0fks5yhle2qx2dkx&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Glad you're surviving newsie.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: panda on September 22, 2022, 07:34:05 AM
In this instance, unquestionably.

4 out of 7 seasons he had a losing record in conference and overall I believe was under 500 against top 100 teams.

I wasn’t around during Dukiet so I respect your first hand opinion of both tenures, but it  was a very poor stretch of Marquette basketball especially given the resources poured into the program now vs. then.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: StillAWarrior on September 22, 2022, 07:54:28 AM
4 out of 7 seasons he had a losing record in conference and overall I believe was under 500 against top 100 teams.

I wasn’t around during Dukiet so I respect your first hand opinion of both tenures, but it  was a very poor stretch of Marquette basketball especially given the resources poured into the program now vs. then.

10-18. 'Nuff said.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 22, 2022, 07:59:40 AM
4 out of 7 seasons he had a losing record in conference and overall I believe was under 500 against top 100 teams.

I wasn’t around during Dukiet so I respect your first hand opinion of both tenures, but it  was a very poor stretch of Marquette basketball especially given the resources poured into the program now vs. then.


You should consider yourself lucky to not be around under the Dukiet era. It was awful.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: dgies9156 on September 22, 2022, 08:31:03 AM
Gosh, I'm amazed at all the vitriol about a "what's he doing now" article on Coach Wojo.

It's not a Marquette disparaging article. It's really  not.

It's not making Coach Wojo out to be a basketball genius. He's not.

Were there factual inaccuracies -- of course. Are they worth the kind of viciousness that AE went after Seth Davis over -- good lord no.

We wanted Coach Wojo to be the second coming of Al! Or at least a Coach K clone. He was neither and was released from his duties for not even being Kevin O'Neill or Tommy Crean.

Get a grip! I know it's the off-season, but really. Get a hobby!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: tower912 on September 22, 2022, 08:31:55 AM
Yup.


Let it go
Let it go-o
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 22, 2022, 09:12:33 AM
Yup.


Let it go
Let it go-o

For me, it isn’t necessarily a Wojo or Marquette thing.  It’s a Seth Davis thing.  It’s sloppy and quite frankly, unecessary.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 22, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
Brew certainly chose an interesting hill to die on today. 
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3KWHzadf2Iq64/200w.gif?cid=82a1493boi7r65p6sgwqsm3w3nt3ts4e0fks5yhle2qx2dkx&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Glad you're surviving newsie.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Viper on September 22, 2022, 12:21:08 PM
Gosh, I'm amazed at all the vitriol about a "what's he doing now" article on Coach Wojo.

It's not a Marquette disparaging article. It's really  not.

It's not making Coach Wojo out to be a basketball genius. He's not.

Were there factual inaccuracies -- of course. Are they worth the kind of viciousness that AE went after Seth Davis over -- good lord no.

We wanted Coach Wojo to be the second coming of Al! Or at least a Coach K clone. He was neither and was released from his duties for not even being Kevin O'Neill or Tommy Crean.

Get a grip! I know it's the off-season, but really. Get a hobby!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: warriorchick on September 22, 2022, 01:03:58 PM
I don't remember what Wire author it was but one of their male opinion authors wrote a pretty scathing article on Wojo before Zoe's.

Not sure what gender has to do with this. IIRC, Zoe was the Sports Editor of Marquette Wire at the time.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 22, 2022, 01:32:57 PM
Not sure what gender has to do with this. IIRC, Zoe was the Sports Editor of Marquette Wire at the time.

It has nothing to do with anything. His gender is the only other fact I can remember about the author that I'm referring to.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: lessthannick11 on September 22, 2022, 01:41:19 PM
Never thought this thread would turn into this
(https://c.tenor.com/575Q0MQTupQAAAAC/on-fire-pizza.gif)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: WhiteTrash on September 22, 2022, 01:44:03 PM
I haven't read the article, but have seen most of it. The factual errors are apparent and reflect poor work ethic.

I think we maybe looking at Seth Davis like he is a journalist. He is not. His education is not in journalism, he is mostly a tv personality. I would not read a Seth Davis work and expect journalistic integrity or competency. Just like I would not turn on FOX or CNN for factual reporting. Their all just entertainment productions.

I agree with others here, too much is being made of a Seth Davis puff piece.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Jay Bee on September 22, 2022, 02:39:03 PM
What are Seth’s pronouns?
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: MUCam on September 22, 2022, 03:18:36 PM
Well, if this thread and the AE article doesn’t cement our reputation as an insecure fan base always claiming to be the victim, I don’t know what would. Sheesh.

Such a strange reaction from many about a fluff piece by some fluff writer who writes fluff articles to keep positive the connections he has in the basketball world so he can have his “insider scoop” reputation. This wasn’t a 60 Minutes investigative piece for crying out loud.

It’s funny how our preconceived biases affect how we view things. I did not take away from the Carrawell comment a blaming if the student athletes for their effort. But I can see how someone might see it that way. To the contrary, what I took away was an indictment of Wojo; that he was wound too tight. Especially the reference to how Wojo’s apparent lack of motivational tools other than saying “work harder, work harder, work harder,” could wear on the players mentally.

I guess we each see and take away what we want to see and take away. 

Either way, the AE take and those similar takes in this thread do seem a strange hill to die on, and frankly seems more and more like the cries of a jilted lover.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: muwarrior97 on September 22, 2022, 04:05:26 PM
Can someone with some video-skills remix the "It's Corn Kid" with "It's Scoop"

Take this whole thread to a higher level ;)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: mumi27 on September 22, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
Well, if this thread and the AE article doesn’t cement our reputation as an insecure fan base always claiming to be the victim, I don’t know what would. Sheesh.

Every fanbase with an Internet forum would have a certain section of fans reacting the way people have in this thread. Calm down buddy
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Viper on September 22, 2022, 05:41:55 PM
I haven't read the article, but have seen most of it. The factual errors are apparent and reflect poor work ethic.

I think we maybe looking at Seth Davis like he is a journalist. He is not. His education is not in journalism, he is mostly a tv personality. I would not read a Seth Davis work and expect journalistic integrity or competency. Just like I would not turn on FOX or CNN for factual reporting. Their all just entertainment productions.

I agree with others here, too much is being made of a Seth Davis puff piece.
spending much of the year near Tucson, I thought FOX reporting on the illegal immigration disaster, sex trafficking, human trafficking, fentanyl smuggling death & destruction along both the AZ & TX borders was legit. Entertainment production? Thx for setting me straight.  We are Marquette!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: NCMUFan on September 22, 2022, 06:02:06 PM
Anonymous Eagle breaks down the article/interview:
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: real chili 83 on September 22, 2022, 06:05:19 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Pakuni on September 22, 2022, 07:50:34 PM

Every fanbase with an Internet forum would have a certain section of fans reacting the way people have in this thread. Calm down buddy
Yep.
And we'd make fun of those people.
At least Message Board Geniuses hasn't caught on. Good thing it's football season.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Tha Hound on September 22, 2022, 07:58:54 PM
This guy all around stinks. End of story
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: mug644 on September 22, 2022, 09:17:42 PM
Hi friends. I started this thread. I'm excited to see that it has more than 4000 views and is approaching 200 replies. Rocky, please do send that click-based pay to my regular account. I need beer money for this weekend.

The article was soft and easy to read. It is nice to see Wojo finding himself or, at least, who he can be for his family. Even with our frustrations as MU's coach and the fact that he has $9m to relax with, shouldn't we be okay with him finding his way in the world?

Seth is Seth. He is a decent writer and the thread of the story was engaging. That said, is weaknesses at a journalist were shown by his errors.

And, not surprisingly, Scoop is Scoop.

This harping on the article I linked can end, please?

FWIW, I graduated in 1988, so 2 years with Majerus and 2 years with Dukiet. The Wojo years were unfulfilled potential, while my MU years were undeniable decline. Yet, I haven't and won't give up.

Fortunately, we have a different coach now. Hopefully Shaka can continue to build.

Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 22, 2022, 09:19:04 PM
spending much of the year near Tucson, I thought FOX reporting on the illegal immigration disaster, sex trafficking, human trafficking, fentanyl smuggling death & destruction along both the AZ & TX borders was legit. Entertainment production? Thx for setting me straight.  We are Marquette!


There are so many things about this post that are completely unsurprising.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: TSmith34 on September 22, 2022, 09:35:05 PM
spending much of the year near Tucson, I thought FOX reporting on the illegal immigration disaster, sex trafficking, human trafficking, fentanyl smuggling death & destruction along both the AZ & TX borders was legit. Entertainment production? Thx for setting me straight.  We are Marquette!
Weird to make a post that admits you are easily conned, but OK.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 22, 2022, 09:47:22 PM
Never thought this thread would turn into this
(https://c.tenor.com/575Q0MQTupQAAAAC/on-fire-pizza.gif)
Obviously you don't come here often
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 22, 2022, 09:51:48 PM
Yep.
And we'd make fun of those people.
At least Message Board Geniuses hasn't caught on. Good thing it's football season.
And we're still undefeated!!!
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 22, 2022, 09:55:01 PM
What are Seth’s pronouns?
You & poles (dance)
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: #UnleashSean on September 22, 2022, 10:27:16 PM
Hi friends. I started this thread. I'm excited to see that it has more than 4000 views and is approaching 200 replies. Rocky, please do send that click-based pay to my regular account. I need beer money for this weekend.


You have nothing on the NM thread.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: GoFastAndWin on September 22, 2022, 10:38:52 PM
Have an inside source.

Wojo has been working out Cincinnati native Tim Schloss, aka “Slick Nick” at BYU. 🏀
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: UWW2MU on September 23, 2022, 08:45:29 AM
I didn't have time to read a full 8 pages of this... but saw some people saying it was untrue that people chanting "fire wojo" at games.   Yes, the story messed it up by calling it out during the pandemic year, but it DEFINITELY took place before that.  The boo'ing, the chants, the twitter hashtags, the signs in dorm windows.  The details aren't quite right, but the message is clear and the story was pointing out that he and his family heard it and felt it and took it personally.   The story really did not make anyone look bad, exept for one small part about some players not giving their all in practice. Was anyone here at those practices who can say that's not true?

This is a humanity story, try to see it from that perspective and let go of your past anger towards Wojo.  He tried, and after many chances, he failed.  Such is life...
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 23, 2022, 08:50:23 AM
I didn't have time to read a full 8 pages of this... but saw some people saying it was untrue that people chanting "fire wojo" at games.   Yes, the story messed it up by calling it out during the pandemic year, but it DEFINITELY took place before that.  The boo'ing, the chants, the twitter hashtags, the signs in dorm windows.  The details aren't quite right, but the message is clear and the story was pointing out that he and his family heard it and felt it and took it personally.   The story really did not make anyone look bad, exept for one small part about some players not giving their all in practice. Was anyone here at those practices who can say that's not true?

This is a humanity story, try to see it from that perspective and let go of your past anger towards Wojo.  He tried, and after many chances, he failed.  Such is life...
What about Crean....
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Nukem2 on September 23, 2022, 09:07:58 AM
I didn't have time to read a full 8 pages of this... but saw some people saying it was untrue that people chanting "fire wojo" at games.   Yes, the story messed it up by calling it out during the pandemic year, but it DEFINITELY took place before that.  The boo'ing, the chants, the twitter hashtags, the signs in dorm windows.  The details aren't quite right, but the message is clear and the story was pointing out that he and his family heard it and felt it and took it personally.   The story really did not make anyone look bad, exept for one small part about some players not giving their all in practice. Was anyone here at those practices who can say that's not true?

This is a humanity story, try to see it from that perspective and let go of your past anger towards Wojo.  He tried, and after many chances, he failed.  Such is life...
Pretty much the bottom line here.  Wojo is human. He failed to meet the expectations he was hired for. He wasn’t totally unsuccessful either. But, his record speaks for itself in terms of those expectations.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Viper on September 23, 2022, 05:50:18 PM
Weird to make a post that admits you are easily conned, but OK.
your post. Says so much. Revealing.
Title: Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
Post by: Newsdreams on September 23, 2022, 08:22:12 PM
your post. Says so much. Revealing.
Extremely funny, but COLE