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Author Topic: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic  (Read 13919 times)

#UnleashSean

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2022, 12:11:48 PM »
Another reason for me to fire up the Nojo train for one more year!

panda

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2022, 12:14:54 PM »

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Comparing the resources of Marquette during Dukiet and Marquette during Wojo, I think it’s much closer than first glance.

#UnleashSean

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2022, 12:15:08 PM »


Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

And then the next coach went on and did in year 1 that took wojo 5.

#UnleashSean

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2022, 12:16:25 PM »

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Eh. Wojo had the Fiserv, The Big East, A tradition of winning, a huge fan backing. And still performed terribly.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2022, 12:18:59 PM »
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.

I read the article but I didn't get that vibe.

Frankly, a lot of the article suggested that Wojo is such a grinder and such a basketball lifer that he's never taken a moment for himself and at 45 is learning to do things his peers did 20-25 years ago. I mean simple things like hammering a nail and mowing the lawn.

I wouldn't assume coaching is his definite future. He's got a crap ton of money and will never hurt for employment so perhaps the time spent hiking and biking has availed him that life outside that bubble, especially given the current climate of the sport, can be just fine.

jfp61

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2022, 12:21:07 PM »

Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close.

Sorry losing my brain a little bit while glancing at a wiki.

Its pretty clearly Dukiet 1. Wojo 2. no matter how you cut it

jfp61

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2022, 12:23:57 PM »
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.

Wasn't it reported he failed to even be a top tier option for the UNLV job right after leaving Marquette? Or am I misremembering something?

He already left being an NBA scout/advisor. That lasted 1 month.

I really don't know what he'll do.

Nukem2

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2022, 12:32:37 PM »
Sorry losing my brain a little bit while glancing at a wiki.

Its pretty clearly Dukiet 1. Wojo 2. no matter how you cut it
Discounting Wojo’s first season, Majerus’s results were no better than Wojo’s results. Majerus also went to 3 NIT’s with no NCAAs.  Wojo had 2 NCAAs and a probable 3rd cut short by the pandemic along with a nice NIT run.  Not touting Wojo at al here, just noting that Majerus did not wow the world in his MU stint. Both were first time HCs.

MU82

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2022, 12:42:39 PM »
Wasn't it reported he failed to even be a top tier option for the UNLV job right after leaving Marquette? Or am I misremembering something?

He already left being an NBA scout/advisor. That lasted 1 month.

I really don't know what he'll do.

If he wants to get hired, a P6 program would hire him as an assistant. Those guys are constantly being recycled, and there are enough head coaches out there with Duke and/or national team ties that he'd get a position if he were willing to settle for being an assistant. But if he's looking to be a P5 head coach, he might wait forever.

And then the next coach went on and did in year 1 that took wojo 5.

We can rip Wojo without being inaccurate. Wojo had every bit as much success in his third year as Shaka did this past season. In 2016-17 under Wojo, we won 19 games before losing in R1 of both the BE and NCAA tournaments. In 2021-22 under Shaka, we won 19 games before losing in R1 of both the BE and NCAA tournaments.

Shaka's team had that month-long stretch that gave MU fans the right to puff out our chests, but the crash-and-burn to end the season had a familiar feel to it. Wojo's 2016-17 team actually made the NCAA tournament because they finished with 4 wins in their last 5 games. That also was Wojo's most balanced team by far, and the fact that Markus and Sam were freshmen gave fans who wanted to be optimistic a lot of hope for the future.

Discounting Wojo’s first season, Majerus’s results were no better than Wojo’s results. Majerus also went to 3 NIT’s with no NCAAs.  Wojo had 2 NCAAs and a probable 3rd cut short by the pandemic along with a nice NIT run.  Not touting Wojo at al here, just noting that Majerus did not wow the world in his MU stint. Both were first time HCs.

Yep. We love Rick here because he was around for the greatest era of Marquette basketball, because he went on to have success elsewhere, and because he usually talked fondly about Marquette. But he was not a successful coach at Marquette. Neither was Mike Deane. And obviously Dukiet.

It sucks that we have to talk about our failed coaches!
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barfolomew

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2022, 12:48:40 PM »

Maybe half of Scoop did.  But they also accused Wojo of starting COVID.


Has it ever been proved he didn't?
I'm just asking questions here.
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brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2022, 12:50:42 PM »

I know this is splitting hairs, but those lies weren’t meant to discredit his critics as much as they were to portray him as a sympathetic figure.

In other words, it wasn’t anti-Marquette as it was pro-Wojo.

Regardless it’s a trash article.

In order to be pro-Wojo, it took an anti-Marquette slant. And it becomes more problematic when there are inaccuracies that lead to that. If Lindsay misremembers 2020-21, fine, but it's on Seth Davis to look into that and see if there actually were a slew of "Fire Wojo" chants. With no fans, that obviously was false. Some of the students booed during the final stretch of 2019-20, which led to them really speeding the Markus Howard to Steve Wojciechowski introduction transition to make it harder to cheer the former and boo the latter.

As you note, trash article, but if it was an accurate trash article it wouldn't be getting the push back it is. All that said, Andy really hits it accurately, with receipts included:

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Here's why I contend it's false. Because Marquette doesn't treat those outlets as local media. To a limited extent, they grant some access to Paint Touches. They give virtually nothing to AE despite the main writer working for the University and virtually nothing to Cracked Sidewalks. I don't remember Wire criticisms at the time. If they were critical, I wasn't paying much attention.

For the most part, the local media is friendly to Marquette or simply ignores MU Basketball. But I think that's radically different than turning on him. Particularly when they rope in the social media comments, where Wojo deleted his account before it really got bad, so the only way he saw it was if he was deliberately seeking it out.
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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2022, 12:55:43 PM »
In order to be pro-Wojo,

I think you meant “projo”

brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2022, 12:59:09 PM »
Crap, wasn't the Zoe Comerford Projo article from the Wire? That was the opposite of turning on him.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2022, 01:14:49 PM »
No, I think his rub was that the Marquette Wire, Paint Touches, AE, and Cracked Sidewalks turned on him who are all part of the local media that report on Marquette.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing that criticism. It was all well earned. But I don't think it's false to say that that the local media had turned on him.

"The Case Against" came out 3/18. He was crap canned 3/19. So Wojo had one bad day of "fire me" media?  When his boss had already made his decision to go to the BOT?

That is some Charmin Soft for Wojo.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2022, 01:36:55 PM »
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

Yup

Jay Bee

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2022, 01:39:01 PM »
At least Wojo had Marquette Madness events
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2022, 01:49:39 PM »
"The Case Against" came out 3/18. He was crap canned 3/19. So Wojo had one bad day of "fire me" media?  When his boss had already made his decision to go to the BOT?

That is some Charmin Soft for Wojo.

There was a lot before "the case against" and you know that. Go back and check the social media accounts of all of the fan blogs.

Again, not criticizing the criticism. But I don't think it's unfair to say that by the end most of the media that actually bothered to cover Marquette was more negative than positive (again for good reason)
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Uncle Rico

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jfp61

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2022, 02:11:26 PM »
At least Wojo had Marquette Madness events

Which he nearly killed himself at trying to ride ATVs.

Markusquette

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cheebs09

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2022, 02:34:33 PM »
Which he nearly killed himself at trying to ride ATVs.

Pretty sure that was Crean. In full Karate outfit with I think Crocs.

cheebs09

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2022, 02:39:13 PM »
I think there were some critical AE and Paint Touches pieces. But I also don’t think they were out of line and probably pretty tame.

I also think Wojo has very thin skin, so I can definitely see the negative treatment being embellished.

One of the moments I’ll never forget is him losing it at a press conference when a student reporter or Andrei asked him a pretty harmless question using his own words. It was in the middle of a losing streak and I think to the effect of “You said a few weeks ago there were things you were focusing on to be a better coach, what are some of those things.”

withoutbias

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2022, 02:43:38 PM »
AE murdered someone

 https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/9/21/23363206/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-seth-davis-athletic-article

My god people are taking this way too seriously.  Honestly, who cares?  How many non-die hard Marquette (or Duke, I guess) fans out there do we think actually read this article?  And those types of fans already know what this article is for (puff piece to help Wojo get his foot back in the door).  It's a giant shoulder shrug.  Doesn't paint Marquette in any light one way or the other.  If you're upset, you're just looking for reasons to be upset.

brewcity77

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2022, 02:43:46 PM »
There was a lot before "the case against" and you know that. Go back and check the social media accounts of all of the fan blogs.

Again, not criticizing the criticism. But I don't think it's unfair to say that by the end most of the media that actually bothered to cover Marquette was more negative than positive (again for good reason)

As we've noted, the legacy media (JS, TV, radio) were either supportive or simply ignored the topic. Zoe Comerford at Marquette Wire wrote two pieces supporting Wojo in the 3 weeks before he was fired, so I have a hard time saying Wire went after him.

Wojo deleted his Twitter in 2019, so if he was hearing from AE, PT, and CS on there (none of us use Instagram or other forms of social media much) he was searching it out. Same goes for the Marquette podcasts, which had various levels of criticism but are something you need to be pretty diehard or deliberate to find. And as Wojo and those around him really shut the blogs out of the Marquette "media" circle, I have a tough time believing that he saw any of us as "media" until the moment The Case Against started circulating among the Board of Trustees.

If you're one of the maybe 2% of nerds diehard enough to follow the podcasts, blogs, and message boards ardently, then you probably remember the 2021 fallout that led to his firing. But for 98% of fans and for the even broader general public, it was at most an eyedropper into an ocean until about 24 hours before the axe fell.
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