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Author Topic: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic  (Read 5545 times)

dgies9156

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2022, 09:03:09 AM »
I can’t image how rich I’d be if I quit drinking

It's Utah, for heaven's sake. Getting booze is about as easy as winning the lottery!

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2022, 09:09:24 AM »
Some Scoopers get big mad over the weirdest of sh!t.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2022, 09:12:04 AM »
It's Utah, for heaven's sake. Getting booze is about as easy as winning the lottery!

Having lived in Utah for a short spell, the booze flows very freely, at least in Salt Lake City. Southern Utah may be a bit different
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Uncle Rico

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2022, 09:16:42 AM »
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Madison media is tough on the Badgers according to those that cover them and Barry Alvarez
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2022, 09:43:01 AM »
Having lived in Utah for a short spell, the booze flows very freely, at least in Salt Lake City. Southern Utah may be a bit different

Yeah, it's not difficult to get. But, they do keep pretty close track of who gets it. They card and scan the ID of everyone who goes into a bar. The first time I went into a bar with my son I joked, "do you want my ID too?" and the answer was a definitive "yes." They also meter all of the booze out of liquor bottles which is also a little unusual (at least in my experience).
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We R Final Four

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2022, 09:56:41 AM »

Elonsmusk

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2022, 10:13:55 AM »
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

4everwarriors

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2022, 10:20:54 AM »
Crean sucks
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2022, 10:22:33 AM »
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2022, 10:25:28 AM »
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

I can think of $9 million reasons why I don't feel bad for any flack he takes.

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2022, 10:27:44 AM »
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.


If Dukiet would have been around during the message board era, the vitriol would have been off the charts.  Wojo didn't face that much really.
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Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2022, 10:28:25 AM »
I can think of $9 million reasons why I don't feel bad for any flack he takes.

Nobody asked you to.

cheebs09

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2022, 10:30:00 AM »
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

I think if Wojo coached at MU 25 years ago, he would be talked about a lot less. Buzz and Crean were pretty successful coaches and both get their fair share of criticism still. I think it just comes with the territory of coaching in the 21st century.

jfp61

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2022, 10:41:15 AM »
It doesn't happen often, but I completely agree with Elon here.
Wojo was a bad coach for MU, but not a bad guy. The fact he's on the receiving end of so much more hostility than some other unsuccessful MU coaches is bizarre to me.
The article was fine and those offended by it are looking to be offended.

Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job. Oniel left the program in decent shape before going to Tennessee. Mike Deane had a post season win and a decent conference record. Buzz despite destroying the program, won here. No one is going to have hostility for "pre Al" guys.

Nearly none of the hostility towards wojo is personal, and most of it is warranted.  Not a lot else to say on the matter.

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2022, 10:56:49 AM »
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Seth Davis and The Athletic are scheming to get Wojo another job and it's up to the brave anonymous souls of Scoop to warn universities across the land - by complaining on Scoop about an article - before they make a monumental mistake.
Got it.

cheebs09

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2022, 11:02:30 AM »
I haven’t read the article, but some of it sounds like Wojo isn’t looking for anything other than a high major head coaching job. I think he would be a solid hire for a low/mid-major and it would probably help him be a better coach.

I hope he does well in his next job. I think he may just need to humble himself to expand what he would accept if he truly wants to get into college coaching again. I also think an NBA role would also benefit him.

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2022, 11:14:01 AM »
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job. Oniel left the program in decent shape before going to Tennessee. Mike Deane had a post season win and a decent conference record. Buzz despite destroying the program, won here. No one is going to have hostility for "pre Al" guys.

Nearly none of the hostility towards wojo is personal, and most of it is warranted.  Not a lot else to say on the matter.

If he’s an unsuccessful coach, isn’t it in our best interest not to bad mouth him now so our competition hires him? We need to be thinking 3D chess here!

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2022, 11:17:49 AM »
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

Local mainstream media also includes sports radio, Racine (Woeful), Madison, TV, Cable. I don't recall any of them calling for Wojo's head. Maybe they did but that was hardly heat.

Maybe half of Scoop did.  But they also accused Wojo of starting COVID.

End of the day, he didn't want to take his bosses' suggestions for improvement in his annual review. Sadly, he died by his own hand.


TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2022, 11:20:22 AM »
Local mainstream media also includes sports radio, Racine (Woeful), Madison, TV, Cable. I don't recall any of them calling for Wojo's head. Maybe they did but that was hardly heat.

They didn't call for his head. They didn't talk about him at all. I think that's more a product of apathy which is arguably a greater sin.
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2022, 11:34:23 AM »
They didn't call for his head. They didn't talk about him at all. I think that's more a product of apathy which is arguably a greater sin.

Quote
"As the fans and media turned on him"

So his rub then was the media never "turned on" excluding the "him"  "Turn me on dead man".

What did Chicos used to claim?  "Ghosts in the machine"?

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2022, 11:35:28 AM »
Who would he be a good coach for??? Why do you think the article was written? It was to get another job. MU fans are rightfully warning other basketball teams against this.

Marquette hasn't had many more unsuccessful coaches than wojo. He never won, and left the program in a worst place than he was given it, and he now can't/ wont get a job and basketball after leaving the program.

At least Dukiet could get a bucks assistant job.


Dukiet did not get a Bucks assistant job.  Majerus did.

Bob Dukiet was the worst coach in Marquette post-Al history. It's not really even all that close. 
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2022, 11:43:48 AM »
So his rub then was the media never "turned on" excluding the "him"  "Turn me on dead man".

What did Chicos used to claim?  "Ghosts in the machine"?

No, I think his rub was that the Marquette Wire, Paint Touches, AE, and Cracked Sidewalks turned on him who are all part of the local media that report on Marquette.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing that criticism. It was all well earned. But I don't think it's false to say that that the local media had turned on him.
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real chili 83

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2022, 11:46:57 AM »
Why are we acting liking the statement about local media turning on him is false? Local media for Marquette is Ben Steele, the Marquette Wire, and the various fan blogs (Paint Touches, Cracked Sidewalks, AE). All of those except Ben Steele turned on Wojo (for good reason). The only way that statement is not true is if you consider Ben Steele as Marquette's only form of local media. And Ben as a beat writer requires access to you know, not get fired, so it's not reasonable to except him to publicly turn on on the head coach. Beat writers just report the facts, they don't give their opinions about the programs they follow (or if they do, they are almost always positive and glowing).

To your point, Ben Steele wrote after Whathisface got canned that the had to be very careful about negativity because it was strongly implied that access would be denied.

MU82

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2022, 12:07:59 PM »
A few items I found interesting:

Carawell asking Wojo:  Do you want to win practice or the game?  (This to me gets to the core of Wojo's problem - he couldn't ratchet down intensity/pressure EVER.)

The blurb about Wojo playing noon-ball against team managers and them seemingly getting the best of him - which sent him into hot yoga and "retirement"

Not being willing to take Scholl's offer/input for how to improve the team/staff/program direction.

Wojo had an ego as most D-1 head coaches have.  However, there was also some insecurity underneath his ego.  He was inflexible.  He simply did not grasp that there is a lot more to coaching than getting players to "fight," and "compete, compete, compete."  It was evident he didn't have the ability to extract the most out of his talent - nor recognize how to best utilize the talent he had.

I don't wish the guy any ill will, nor did I find the article particularly "offensive" to Marquette/blaming Marquette for his struggles.  He largely was a class act during his time in Milwaukee, brought in good kids, and there weren't any off-court embarrassments to the university.  He just wasn't a very good coach...but..we did play some fun games during his time at MU.  So, it wasn't a total disaster.

Agree with all that, Nrs. Very good analysis.

What I disliked most was Wojo playing the victim (and Davis helping him do it). It's big-boy sports -- you aren't paid to coach, you're paid to win, and he didn't do enough of it.

I also agree with TAMU that some in the local media were critical of Wojo, and rightly so. It's not Ben Steele's job to rip the people he covers, and the Journal Sentinel apparently cares so little about Marquette basketball that its columnist rarely (if ever) bothered to opine on Wojo. But online voices did speak up, and that's good. There are other towns in which Wojo would have been ripped so mercilessly that he really would have felt like a victim. His reaction at a few press conferences to reasonable questions showed him to be thin-skinned and aloof. I thought the time he went after the student journalist was his low point off the court, and it reflected poorly on his character.

As for the fans, I don't remember "fire Wojo" chants, but I was there a couple times when he was booed. One was the Villanova game in Jan 2020. I was sitting in front of a half-dozen Nova fans who had made the trip from Philly. After Wojo was booed during pre-game introductions, I overheard one Nova fan ask, "Wow, did they just boo their own coach?" In reality, I'd say it was less than a couple hundred fans who booed, but they definitely were heard. Still, suggesting that fan discontent was part of the cause of Wojo's difficulties as a college head coach ... that's effen weak victimhood shyte.

Looking back, the Wojo Error was a failure. I was more patient and optimistic than most, and that ended up being frustrating for me, and I give credit to those who saw the impending train wreck a lot earlier than I did.
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panda

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Re: Seth Davis on Wojo in The Athletic
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2022, 12:10:21 PM »
Travis Steele aka Xavier Wojo (look out for x this year with a real coach) did what any grinder career coach does when they get fired, he drops down a level (Miami Ohio) to prove himself and try and move back up the ladder.

As much as Wojo want to believe it, grinding is not in his dna. If it was, he’d be back coaching already in some capacity, above the middle school level or outside a cushy Duke set up position with USA basketball.