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Author Topic: The War in Ukraine  (Read 47230 times)

MU82

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #350 on: May 24, 2022, 09:11:04 AM »
From the NYT:

Boris Bondarev says President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could have spent the last two decades “developing the country” but instead turned it “into some kind of total horror, a threat to the world.”

Mr. Bondarev would know: He spent his career promoting Mr. Putin’s foreign policy.

A midlevel diplomat at Russia’s United Nations mission in Geneva, Mr. Bondarev on Monday became the most prominent Russian official to resign and publicly criticize the war in Ukraine since the invasion on Feb. 24.

“For 20 years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on Feb. 24 of this year,” Mr. Bondarev said in an email to colleagues.

While his blistering message was unlikely to reach most Russians given the state’s domination of the news media, his resignation showed that discontent lurks in Russian officialdom despite the facade of national unity that the Kremlin has worked to create.

“Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity,” Mr. Bondarev said in his email. “To achieve that they are willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes.”
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #351 on: May 27, 2022, 09:05:30 PM »
Imagine being a fresh Russian recruit and seeing that you'll be sent to war in a T-62.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-is-pulling-old-obsolete-tanks-out-of-storage-because-it-is-losing-so-many-in-its-war-with-ukraine-intelligence-suggests/ar-AAXNV2y

"And on Friday, the British defense ministry posted an intelligence update reporting that "Russia has likely moved 50-year-old T-62 tanks from deep storage," noting that the move "highlights Russia's shortage of modern, combat-ready equipment."

The UK also said that these Soviet armor assets "will almost certainly be particularly vulnerable to anti-tank weapons," such as anti-tank guided missiles like the Javelins provided by the US or next generation light anti-tank weapons (NLAWs) from the UK that have been devastating even Russia's more modern tanks over the past three months."
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #352 on: June 01, 2022, 04:20:14 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/world/europe/ukraine-russia-losses-east.html

"Though much of the world’s focus in the war has been on Russia’s disorganized and flawed campaign, Ukraine, too, is struggling. Ukraine’s army has suffered heavy losses, shown signs of disarray and, step by step, fallen back from some long-held areas in Donbas, the eastern region that is now the war’s epicenter.

The momentum Ukraine generated after pushing Russian forces back from Kyiv, the capital, and Kharkiv, the second-largest city, has given way in the east to weeks of give-and-take over villages, heavy shelling — and a stream of Ukrainian dead and wounded from the battlefields."
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #353 on: June 02, 2022, 12:59:24 PM »
This is the concern. Russia can afford to exchange dead soldiers 1:1. That will lead to a Russia victory. It's a military strategy used to great effect in WW2. Putin appears to be resurrecting it. It will be up to the Russian people who see enough dead bodies returned to their families from a war with a country that was supposed to be welcoming the Russian "liberators" to somehow put enough pressure on Putin to end it. I'm not optimistic for Ukraine's chances in a long drawn out affair.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #354 on: June 03, 2022, 08:14:02 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/world/europe/ukraine-russia-losses-east.html

"Though much of the world’s focus in the war has been on Russia’s disorganized and flawed campaign, Ukraine, too, is struggling. Ukraine’s army has suffered heavy losses, shown signs of disarray and, step by step, fallen back from some long-held areas in Donbas, the eastern region that is now the war’s epicenter.

The momentum Ukraine generated after pushing Russian forces back from Kyiv, the capital, and Kharkiv, the second-largest city, has given way in the east to weeks of give-and-take over villages, heavy shelling — and a stream of Ukrainian dead and wounded from the battlefields."

The New York Times coverage has been fatalistic and doom and gloom the entire 100 days and not as informative.  From what I've read the Kharkhiv Russian counterattack was only reported on Russian propaganda Telegram and there is no actual physical proof of any counterattack.

From multiple sources it is not 1:1 losses.  The Russians have been taking a shellacking everywhere and their losses continue to be greater than Ukraine.
The Russians only strategy is to indiscriminately shell and then attempt to advance.  From what I've read in the last week, is the NATO longer range guns have started to arrive and where they've been put into action are already making an impact as they are taking out Russian big guns because they out distance them.  The HIMARS stuff announced this week is even longer range and no surprise they were already pre-staged in Europe.  The NATO big guns are still arriving and will be taking out Russians only tactic for advancement.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #355 on: June 03, 2022, 09:21:09 AM »
The New York Times coverage has been fatalistic and doom and gloom the entire 100 days and not as informative.  From what I've read the Kharkhiv Russian counterattack was only reported on Russian propaganda Telegram and there is no actual physical proof of any counterattack.

From multiple sources it is not 1:1 losses.  The Russians have been taking a shellacking everywhere and their losses continue to be greater than Ukraine.
The Russians only strategy is to indiscriminately shell and then attempt to advance.  From what I've read in the last week, is the NATO longer range guns have started to arrive and where they've been put into action are already making an impact as they are taking out Russian big guns because they out distance them.  The HIMARS stuff announced this week is even longer range and no surprise they were already pre-staged in Europe.  The NATO big guns are still arriving and will be taking out Russians only tactic for advancement.

I hope you are right, but currently it is clear that Russia is grinding forward, slowly. They don't care about their own losses or civilians murdered, but mere weight of superior numbers is allowing them to plod forward.

The West is slowly giving Ukraine better and better weapons with which to counter, marked by a Putin hissy fit each time. I hope they are enough to stop and reverse the Russian advance.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #356 on: June 03, 2022, 01:17:31 PM »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #357 on: June 03, 2022, 01:41:37 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/europe/putin-ukraine-invasion-100-days-analysis-intl-cmd/index.html

"You have the watches but we have the time." Russia has the time.


They may have the time, but toward what end?  Strategically this has been a disaster for Russia on many fronts.  Whatever is left of Ukraine will be decidedly pro-West.  Any sort of potential split in NATO, outside of the idiots in Turkey, has been patched.  Germany has started to re-militarize.  And two historically neutral countries have applied to join NATO.

It's going to be another generation before people trust Russia again.  They may end up lopping off a hunk of Ukraine when all is said and done, but the price they are going to have to pay for that is monumental.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Jockey

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #358 on: June 03, 2022, 02:08:15 PM »

They may have the time, but toward what end?  Strategically this has been a disaster for Russia on many fronts.  Whatever is left of Ukraine will be decidedly pro-West.  Any sort of potential split in NATO, outside of the idiots in Turkey, has been patched.  Germany has started to re-militarize.  And two historically neutral countries have applied to join NATO.

It's going to be another generation before people trust Russia again.  They may end up lopping off a hunk of Ukraine when all is said and done, but the price they are going to have to pay for that is monumental.

I don’t know that I agree with your last statement. Russia has always been a pariah with an us-against-them attitude.

JWags85

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #359 on: June 03, 2022, 02:42:04 PM »
I don’t know that I agree with your last statement. Russia has always been a pariah with an us-against-them attitude.

Yea, I don't know when anyone really trusted Russia.  I mean, even when tourism was open and safe, it was still kind of like, if you go, "be mindful"...

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #360 on: June 03, 2022, 02:46:51 PM »
OK point made.  But I guess my overall point is that this is going to end up killing a lot of people and making their strategic position even worse. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #361 on: June 03, 2022, 03:54:42 PM »

They may have the time, but toward what end?  Strategically this has been a disaster for Russia on many fronts.  Whatever is left of Ukraine will be decidedly pro-West.  Any sort of potential split in NATO, outside of the idiots in Turkey, has been patched.  Germany has started to re-militarize.  And two historically neutral countries have applied to join NATO.

It's going to be another generation before people trust Russia again.  They may end up lopping off a hunk of Ukraine when all is said and done, but the price they are going to have to pay for that is monumental.

I've seen a bunch of mentions in my industrial trade magazines that they pretty much expect no Western companies having operations in Russia for at least 20 years min.

pbiflyer

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #362 on: June 05, 2022, 05:30:49 AM »
According to a report from the Daily Beast's Allison Quinn, Radio Free Europe’s Ukrainian service obtained a recording of two high-ranking military officials swearing and raging at the Kremlin and Russian President Vladimir Putin over the Ukraine invasion that has turned into a quagmire despite predictions by Kremlin officials it would meet little resistance.

The report notes the two officials are reportedly Colonel Maksim Vlasov and Colonel Vitaly Kovtun who, based upon their comments, are exceedingly unhappy with the Kremlin as they commiserated with each other.


Colorful comments here: https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-russian-military-brass-caught-venting-youre-unnatural carnal knowledgeed-putinmotherunnatural carnal knowledgeer?ref=scroll

Scoop Snoop

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #363 on: June 13, 2022, 10:54:30 AM »
The June issue of Smithsonian Magazine includes a story about Ukranian immigrants in California. Seven individuals are featured.  Just a few quotes (edited by me) from the story: 

"Something we Ukranians share with the West is the idea that truth is important in itself. If you think human life is important, truth is important. That's different from people in support of Russia as a militaristic country, Russian conquest. They see people as a means to an end, of a great empire. If human life is seen as a burden for the Russian state, it can be eliminated. That value system puts the State above the individual."

This writer, Oleksandr Trofymenko, came to the US as a 15-year-old and is currently doing his residency as a psychiatrist.

Mark Khoroshev is an 85-year-old engineer who is still working. He holds 3 US patents and has "published a few books".

"I was born in 1937. That year, my father was arrested. He was sent to Pechory as 'an enemy of the people'. My lifetime coincided with the war, which made me an adult while I was still a child. I saw the Holocaust, my family had many losses, and I saw repression. Everything would have been fine if I hadn't found out that I was living in a country ruled by a tyrant. The tyranny didn't end with Stalin. The Communist Party ruled everything. I was just a cog in the wheel."

"At the beginning of the war, I had seven relatives in Ukraine. Now there's only one left."

"I know that even if peace is declared tomorrow, it will only be on paper."

 
 
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

MuggsyB

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #364 on: June 13, 2022, 12:51:28 PM »
Odessa and a Russian blockade could be a enormous problem.  Africa gets 40% of its wheat from Ukraine.  I'm not sure what specifically we're planning to do to help but this is a tenuous and potentially dire situation. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #365 on: June 13, 2022, 03:33:45 PM »
Odessa and a Russian blockade could be a enormous problem.  Africa gets 40% of its wheat from Ukraine.  I'm not sure what specifically we're planning to do to help but this is a tenuous and potentially dire situation.

Nothing.  We will continue to supply arms, that's it.  That's all we should be doing.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #366 on: June 13, 2022, 03:41:55 PM »
I also think we should be talking to Ukraine about what a "saving face" peace looks like.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #367 on: June 13, 2022, 04:18:07 PM »
Yea, I don't know when anyone really trusted Russia.  I mean, even when tourism was open and safe, it was still kind of like, if you go, "be mindful"...

Unless you’re a fellow traveler. Bernie honeymooned there, a’ina?

Jockey

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #368 on: June 13, 2022, 04:46:40 PM »
Unless you’re a fellow traveler. Bernie honeymooned there, a’ina?

Wonder if he stayed at the same hotel where trump's hookers peed.

Boozemon Barro

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #369 on: June 13, 2022, 05:09:35 PM »
Ayyeee. This crap is great. What we paying for? Why we paying for? Ooooh. We need a good guy and bad guy narrative to feel comfortable with this crap, right? Ukraine's wellbeing is of absolute vital importance to my way of life. Like, how can I go to my local bar while they are fighting for Democracy? crap, send them more weapons. Ban pro-russian voices. They don't know crap about crap and shouldn't say crap about crap until they have their crap figured out. I think we should send them $1trillion of weapons. I'm not profiting on it. Pinky swear

Pakuni

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #370 on: June 13, 2022, 05:14:44 PM »
The Tucker viewers are out in force this afternoon.

Boozemon Barro

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #371 on: June 13, 2022, 05:25:29 PM »
The Tucker viewers are out in force this afternoon.
Whatever we can do to ensure more dead Ukrainians is what we need to do. Russia will be weakend. The peace process isn't inevitable and this Ukrainian army can actually win. We're the good guys. Send them more money and weapons. They'll die. I have a Ukraine flag in my profile pic. I'm a good person.

tower912

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #372 on: June 13, 2022, 06:01:06 PM »
Putin is the bad guy.  Arguing differently shows you to be a fool.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 06:32:31 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MuggsyB

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #373 on: June 13, 2022, 06:26:43 PM »
My concern beyond the Ukrainians is a severe food shortage in Africa and the Middle East.

Boozemon Barro

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Re: The War in Ukraine
« Reply #374 on: June 13, 2022, 07:17:20 PM »
Putin is the bad guy.  Arguing differently shows you to be a fool.
When I was a kid, the green guys were good and the tan guys were bad. I set up some epic battles in the sandbox. Fortunately for the green guys, the tan guys always seemed to position themselves over a full pack of black cats.

 

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