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* Next up: Blue and Gold Scrimmage @ the Al

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B&G Scrimmage

Date/Time: Oct 8, 2022, 10:00 am
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Schedule for 2021-22
19-13

Author Topic: Justin  (Read 117704 times)

jfp61

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1475 on: June 24, 2022, 08:47:26 AM »
You are alll really worked up over a scrimmage that about 10 total drafted players played in.

4everwarriors

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1476 on: June 24, 2022, 08:50:08 AM »
Hindsight 20/20 etc.

Where's your pre-draft post about said elephant?



C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?
 
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panda

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1477 on: June 24, 2022, 08:50:29 AM »
And by all accounts Scotty Pippen, Jr., Terquavion Smith, Trevion Williams, Dereon Seabron, Michael Foster, Kenneth Lofton, Jr., and John Butler were other scrimmage standouts.  None of these guys were drafted.

Their performances have no bearing on how nba execs view Lewis’ intangibles.

#Unleash?

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1478 on: June 24, 2022, 08:51:02 AM »
Nah, I just think it's awfully interesting the 'told ya so' birds that crow endlessly when they catch a lucky take, but when they're wrong they just walk away and never bring it up.

And then going further and pretending like anyone knows WHY Justin wasn't drafted is even more ridiculous.  Skipping 5 on 5s?  Sure, you old farts can talk up and down about it mattering, but it didn't.  There is two seasons of tape on Justin.  Mirror that with guys that are chosen from Europe who are barely scouted at all.  Reconcile that logic for me, please.  A couple of 5 on 5 pick up games without serious coaching is more important than two years of tape, and measurables?  Find me the NBA GM that would agree with you.

The fact of the matter is that the NBA drafts on POTENTIAL first, and body of work second.  These scouts KNOW they can get guys like Justin after the draft so why not take a flyer on a Euro kid who has the POTENTIAL (usually unknown) to be a star in a season or two?  There are a ton of Monday morning QBs who have their own (misguided) beliefs about why Justin wasn't drafted who threw a dart and predicted he wouldn't be.  Congrats, you guys were right, but your reasoning as to why he wasn't picked is absolutely faulty.

Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?

Goose

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1479 on: June 24, 2022, 08:57:35 AM »
I feel badly for Lewis but cannot say I am surprised. Biggest take away for me, he had a major jump in play from first to second year at MU and hoping we similar improvements from one of two guys on the roster. Wish him well and looking forward to the upcoming MU season.

wadesworld

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1480 on: June 24, 2022, 09:03:36 AM »


C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?

Peyton Watson, JD Davison, and Max Christie all "left the Combine" and got drafted.  Teams aren't passing up on a kid who they think is talented enough to draft because he skipped some pickup basketball.
Black Lives Matter

lawdog77

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1481 on: June 24, 2022, 09:07:02 AM »
Peyton Watson, JD Davison, and Max Christie all "left the Combine" and got drafted.  Teams aren't passing up on a kid who they think is talented enough to draft because he skipped some pickup basketball.
They might have had guarantees from teams. Thats why I am interested in the details. Did a team reneg? Did his agent screw the pooch, Did he have an injury?

WhiteTrash

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1482 on: June 24, 2022, 09:07:11 AM »
Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?
European players and the 'draft and stash' strategy has been fully baked into every mock draft for 20+ years. The 'experts' just got it wrong. I feel bad for Justin; he can make it happen but the odds are very long.

Well, on to 2022-23.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1483 on: June 24, 2022, 09:14:11 AM »

This is reasonable. I remain surprised that Justin didn't take part in the combine's live action without a solid guarantee from any teams (which it's now obvious he didn't have).

On a related note ...

Tough night for Big East players. Tyrese Martin was the only guy drafted, and that was late.

It isn't reasonable, its cherry picked data.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1484 on: June 24, 2022, 09:16:31 AM »
FFS. No one is happy about this.

100% correct. But to Mike, that doesn’t matter.

Attacking other’s accurate criticisms as “hatred” and their realism as “pessimism” is a clever way for the wrong headed to feel better about themselves. Self delusion is big here.


Hards Alumni

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1485 on: June 24, 2022, 09:18:22 AM »
Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?

That's a fair criticism.  I should have said they're scouted, but the competition is less consistent and therefore more difficult to judge at least for younger players.

Goose

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1486 on: June 24, 2022, 09:19:54 AM »
I cannot speak for Double Dribble, but I definitely do not think Justin's body language or appearing to take plays off helped his cause. I would say his good definitely outweighed his bad by a wide margin last season and helped make for an exciting season. That said, there were plenty of times I was very frustrated with him appearing disinterested or playing hero ball. Bottomline for me, I am glad he played for MU, wish him a lot of luck and will remember him for having a very good second year at MU.

The Lens

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1487 on: June 24, 2022, 09:23:28 AM »
I beleive that he did get a guarantee.  That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program.  And he was.  Mission accomplished,  Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world. 

The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc.   The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school.  College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out.  It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).

I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.
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Herman Cain

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1488 on: June 24, 2022, 09:28:49 AM »


C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?

I agree with this analysis
Vote for Pedro

LAZER

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1489 on: June 24, 2022, 09:30:13 AM »
I beleive that he did get a guarantee.  That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program.  And he was.  Mission accomplished,  Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world. 

The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc.   The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school.  College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out.  It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).

I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.
This is really all that matters. Of course you want to hear your name called, but getting a two-way was always a realistic outcome for Lewis last night. And I totally understand why a kid would want to develop his game in a professional org while getting paid and not having to deal with school. I also totally understand why a kid would want to stay in school and keep developing. There's no right or wrong way to do it.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1490 on: June 24, 2022, 09:30:33 AM »
I beleive that he did get a guarantee.  That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program.  And he was.  Mission accomplished,  Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world. 

The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc.   The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school.  College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out.  It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).

I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.

A solid take.  This is how the business works.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1491 on: June 24, 2022, 09:34:46 AM »
What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted.  It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks.  Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high.  That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1492 on: June 24, 2022, 09:38:34 AM »
What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted.  It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks.  Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high.  That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.

One year does not a trend make.

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-East-Conference/59/nba-draft

Uncle Rico

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1493 on: June 24, 2022, 09:42:21 AM »
What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted.  It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks.  Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high.  That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.

Think the new coaching hires change this pattern.

I’ll say this, there are programs here that will follow the develop players model like PU and seemingly Marquette now.  It’s not the worst way to have steady programs.  May limit the ceiling.

Also, Nova injuries probably should be part of the equation as well
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MU82

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1494 on: June 24, 2022, 09:57:08 AM »
I cannot speak for Double Dribble, but I definitely do not think Justin's body language or appearing to take plays off helped his cause. I would say his good definitely outweighed his bad by a wide margin last season and helped make for an exciting season. That said, there were plenty of times I was very frustrated with him appearing disinterested or playing hero ball. Bottomline for me, I am glad he played for MU, wish him a lot of luck and will remember him for having a very good second year at MU.

Nevertheless, Shaka -- a guy you consider a wonderful coach in every respect -- never once sat him for those transgressions.

Shaka benched Morsell a few times even though we didn't have another player who could score from the spots Morsell consistently did or defend like Morsell did. Shaka benched Kolek even though we didn't have another player who could run the team like Kolek did. Shaka regularly benched Kuath even though we didn't have another player who could protect the rim like Kuath did. Shaka yanked Kam and Elliott out of games even though they were our only two shooters. Shaka benched O-Max even though O-Max often was our most energetic, athletic player and a willing defender.

But Shaka never benched Justin because of poor body language, lack of interest or laziness. What was stoopid Shaka missing that was so obvious to so many Scoopers?

Either Shaka isn't as good a coach as you and I think he is because he's unable to recognize this obvious "lack of interest." Or maybe Shaka gave Lewis the same kind of "preferential star treatment" that so many here criticized Wojo for re Markus. Or maybe Lewis wasn't lazy or disinterested; maybe, like pretty much every other player in basketball history, he'd occasionally get frustrated for a second if he missed a shot or made a bad pass.

Yes, a few "experts" on a few websites said Lewis looked disinterested at times. Nevertheless, many of those exact same experts predicted that Lewis would be drafted. So were they "good" experts on the disinterested angle but "bad" experts on the draft angle?

Bottom line, I'm glad you will have mostly fond memories of Justin's time at Marquette. Me too. Last season would have been an unmitigated basketball disaster without him.
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1495 on: June 24, 2022, 10:01:35 AM »


C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?

It may have been a good call that there was a perception that he took plays off or was lazy and that would hurt his draft status. How much that hurt him getting drafted we will never know. 

The take that MU would be better off without him next year was the silly take.   Another year of development in a young player who was all Big East would have been outstanding to have around.  I don’t see and never did see a logical argument for that reasoning.  We don’t sniff the tournament without him last year and with him this coming year would be a lock for the NCAA again.

Hopefully, Justin makes it with the Bulls.  I believe he is a great fit for that roster.  I believe 19 year-olds also mature as they get older and if he has the right mindset going forward he will make it in the NBA.  The physical tools are there.

Good luck to Justin.  Go MU!

Goose

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1496 on: June 24, 2022, 10:07:43 AM »
82

The wonderful coach sat him at UNC game and post-game presser. Seriously, what is your point? He was the best player on the team last year and he took plays off and had bad body language from time to time. Why can't both be true?


nyg

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1497 on: June 24, 2022, 11:47:01 AM »
What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted.  It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks.  Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high.  That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.

Well that should change next year.  Numerous posters here have stated O-Max will be drafted and will be a better player than Justin was. 

MU82

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1498 on: June 24, 2022, 01:21:32 PM »
82

The wonderful coach sat him at UNC game and post-game presser. Seriously, what is your point? He was the best player on the team last year and he took plays off and had bad body language from time to time. Why can't both be true?

I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn’t lazy, and didn’t bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.

We Are Marquette!
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MU82

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1499 on: June 24, 2022, 01:25:27 PM »
Well that should change next year.  Numerous posters here have stated O-Max will be drafted and will be a better player than Justin was.

If O-Max ever hesitates out of frustration for even half a second after missing a shot or committing a turnover, some of the same O-Max fans will be calling him lazy.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

BAN ASSAULT RIFLES, NOT BOOKS!