Justin

[MUfan12]

I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn't lazy, and didn't bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.

Take a break.

[Goose]

82

Not that it matters, but I would say I noticed Lewis being lazy maybe 10-15 times +/- a few. The first Creighton game it was mentioned 2-4 by the announcer and it was obvious to anyone that is being honest, IMO. Now, if you never noticed it or think it was no big deal, I am fine with that. Not going to argue or point out why the coach is stupid, lazy or any other craziness you can think of. Always an extreme with you these days.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't know what the right adjective is, but I certainly saw Justin get frustrated at the end of the team's unconscious streak/beginning of the mediocre part of the big east schedule.  He was getting position unchallenged before the BEast coaches changed how they guarded him.  The change was effective and he couldnt back people down as easily and the three was more contested. 

The UCONN game in particular was one where he was visibly frustrated and it seemed to impact his performance.  If i recall correctly, that was on the just after the VU game in philly where he had maybe his best performance of the season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn't lazy, and didn't bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.

We Are Marquette!

Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.

I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.

[tower912]

I never once thought Justin was lazy.  I saw him frustrated, but never thought 'lazy'.

[Newsdreams]

I never once thought Justin was lazy.  I saw him frustrated, but never thought 'lazy'.

Yes, like I mentioned before it started to happen more and more once MU was figured out by coaches, and he became the focus of team defenses.

[Shooter McGavin]

https://theathletic.com/3373289/2022/06/24/justin-lewis-nba-draft/?source=user_shared_article

[Shooter McGavin]

Bulls fans seem to be digging this pickup.  I agree with them.

[Lennys Tap]

Bulls fans seem to be digging this pickup.  I agree with them.

Hope they're right. Marquette has a pretty good history of players outperforming their scouting reports.

[brewcity77]

The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.

I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.

[rocket surgeon]

If O-Max ever hesitates out of frustration for even half a second after missing a shot or committing a turnover, some of the same O-Max fans will be calling him lazy.

   did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down.  let go and let...umm, let...nevermind

[lawdog77]

The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.

I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.

There may have been a guarantee, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Shaka Donovan friendship. It would have to do with JL's talent.

[Newsdreams]

   did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down.  let go and let...umm, let...nevermind

Lazy post, no upper case to begin paragraph, missing question mark, and very lazy paragraph conclusion. Lazy, lazy and uninterested body language throughout the paragraph, sad!

[GOO]

Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.

I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.

Very well said and explained. Shaka talks about mental toughness and maturity and athleticism etc., and that they don't all arrive for most kids at the same time. Have to grow and learn. Heck, I'd guess they all arrive for very very few players on a consistent basis, day in and day out, or all game long.

as you relate it to the rest of us, I wonder how many of us could us maintained focus in a classroom non-stop for 50 or 90 minutes. I'd guess none of us. Would take a lot of effort and time learning how to, and even then there would be better days than others. Maintaining constant intensity is pretty darn hard in anything we do mental or physical. Combine them and it is basically impossible. Throw in some frustration and people working just as hard against you to stop you, and good luck.

[MU82]

Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.

I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.

That's fair. The only thing I'd point out is that Shaka did bench Morsell (arguably his other "star") several times. And he even benched his only point guard; IIRC many Scoopers weren't thrilled with that. But as usual, a very reasonable observation, TAMU.

   did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down.  let go and let...umm, let...nevermind

We all need lessons on posting etiquette from a guy who regularly quotes Tucker Carlson on the conspiracy theory du jour.

82

Not that it matters, but I would say I noticed Lewis being lazy maybe 10-15 times +/- a few. The first Creighton game it was mentioned 2-4 by the announcer and it was obvious to anyone that is being honest, IMO. Now, if you never noticed it or think it was no big deal, I am fine with that. Not going to argue or point out why the coach is stupid, lazy or any other craziness you can think of. Always an extreme with you these days.

There was nothing extreme about my post. Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree on this subject. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[bilsu]

Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.

I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.

Forgot about Juzang. Probably would have been a first rounder if he left last year.

[DrJay24]

Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.

I thought he often had terrible body language that made him seem disinterested. Lazy?  I wouldn't say lazy but there are definitely higher motor guys than him.

[jfp61]

Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.

No, but his defensive footspeed is slightly slow so he'll get stuck with this label.

[MUDPT]

https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/

Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.

I'm curious.  On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"?  How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?

[wadesworld]

https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/

Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.

I'm curious.  On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"?  How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?

That was another player I thought of. Injury concerns, horribly underperformed at a low level of basketball, stock supposedly plummeting, terrible Combine measurable, and I think *gasp* even sat out scrimmages. Yet he was a first round pick.

Listen, if Justin was a first round talent and his body language was bad, he'd have been a first round pick. Teams believe in their ability to get the best out of players. It's not like it was a discipline or legal issue if his biggest knock is bad body language. The fact of the matter is he was a mid second round to undrafted talent and a bunch of international guys were stashed ahead of him.

[brewcity77]

https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/

Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.

I'm curious.  On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"?  How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?

For the past 3-4 years, PBJ was considered safely one of the five best players in his class, and was at one point ranked #1. If you're Golden State, is it that big of a risk rolling the dice on a guy who a year ago would've been a no doubt lottery pick? Sure, there are concerns, but taking a risk on someone who the talent consensus was "potentially the best of all these guys" at his peak is different than someone whose highest consensus was early to mid second round.

[bilsu]

https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/

Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.

I'm curious.  On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"?  How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?

I watched the whole draft. It seemed to me once you go past the first 45 picks teams were more interested in drafting young foreign players than they were in drafting college players.

[Billy Hoyle]

I watched the whole draft. It seemed to me once you go past the first 45 picks teams were more interested in drafting young foreign players than they were in drafting college players.

Stash them, let them develop aboard for free. Maybe they come over, maybe not. No risk, high reward.

[The Lens]

12 Upperclassmen were selected out of 58 picks

8 Juniors
4 Seniors

Compare that to 31 underclssmen

11 Sophomores
20 Freshmen

IMO, this is why Justin left.  Being a college upperclassmen is not the profile of a true NBA prospect.