MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jaygall31 on March 18, 2022, 10:59:20 AM
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I’m sure this has been posted but what does everyone think about Justin and his probability of returning next year? I think there are serious holes in his game but maybe it’s the state of going to the NBA now where guys have serious holes in their game and will be first round picks.
I think we need him to get back to the big dance next year, maybe thats stating the obvious. I think he got into a little bit of hero ball mode, along with Morsell, which didn’t help anything. And that’s more than just yesterdays game. Our ball movement went down the past month.
I like
Kam
Tyler
Stevie
Justin
Oso
Omax
Plus any new additions as an OK core going in the next year. I’m just overthinking yesterday at work just curious on what you guys think the team will look like next year
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He not ready for primetime yet.
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He needs at least two more years in college in order to prove any sort of worth to NBA scouts
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When we get to the final four he will be ready.
It worked for D Wade.
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When we get to the final four he will be ready.
It worked for D Wade.
Wade wouldn't have made it to the Final Four year if he had played today.
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Does anybody here know Justin Lewis?
How has he liked his Marquette experience overall? Does he value learning in a college environment? Does he love his coaches and teammates? Are he and his family in good shape financially? Has he explored if he can earn real money in NIL next year? Is he simply ready for a change? Is he driven to want to make Marquette great next season? Is getting a degree, whether in the next few years or eventually, important to him? Do his family, friends and others he trusts to give him advice think he should stay or go? Has anybody connected with the NBA told him or his advisers what they think his prospects are? What has Shaka said to him about the subject in their conversations?
Until we have answers to at least some of those questions, it's all speculation.
Of course he's not "ready." At most, a handful of college players are "ready" for the NBA in a given year. Looking at this year's crop, I'm not sure a single one of them is really "ready." That's beside the point, so the people that keep saying Justin's not "ready" really need to educate themselves on how this all works.
My gut feeling is that he'll leave if he gets information that leads him to believe he'll be drafted, because that's generally how it works nowadays. He might even leave if he doesn't get that info if he feels he can make a good buck playing hoops.
But until we actually know the answers to most of those questions -- or at least a few of the most important ones -- it's just a bunch of folks on the interwebs making guesses. Present company included.
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Brother MU is right on the money.
My opinions are strong but I haven't been engaged to judge talent by an NBA team nor am I sure I'd know what to do if I was. Until I plop myself down into an airplane seat next to a high level NBA scout, I'll avoid judgment.
Selfishly, I want him back. I think he is a major asset to Marquette University and to our team. We will go places with him at forward, especially if he grows like he did this year.
But I remember being 21 a long time ago and knowing what large amounts of money can mean to a life. Large amounts of money was something I did not have back then.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CbYIcchpsG4/?utm_medium=copy_link
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CbYIcchpsG4/?utm_medium=copy_link
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!
Caption ends with a checkered flag and last picture is him getting on an airplane. Meaning he’s done at MU. Best of luck to the young man on his next stop.
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He gowne.
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Thanked Justin for getting us to the Big Dance and coming to Marquette. But want and hope Justin stays at Marquette 1 more year.
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Thanked Justin for getting us to the Big Dance and coming to Marquette. But want and hope Justin stays at Marquette 1 more year.
Did you get any whispers on which way he’s leaning?
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Let him get invited to the NBA combine then he will know where he stands. Garcia found out he Was not going to be drafted much like Kofi at Illinois you comeback
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Trust the process.
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He's a good young talent but needs to improve his game a lot.
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He's a good young talent but needs to improve his game a lot.
Which can be said of everyone picked outside the top 3-5 of every NBA draft.
The draft is about tools. Justin has tools. Whether they translate to a successful NBA career remains to be seen, but no team is going to shy away from a player because he's not a finished product or needs improvement.
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I am more concerned that a team with a chance to make a run in the tourney tries to fill a missing piece for next year. Say Duke, Kansas, UNC, Houston, etc. We aren't just competing with the NBA anymore.
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I am more concerned that a team with a chance to make a run in the tourney tries to fill a missing piece for next year. Say Duke, Kansas, UNC, Houston, etc. We aren't just competing with the NBA anymore.
Great point. I agree, except for Kansas, you've got to think the post season(s) ban is coming soon.
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I've been assuming for awhile that he'd be gone, but I don't know anymore if that will be case.
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Great point. I agree, except for Kansas, you've got to think the post season(s) ban is coming soon.
I don't know that Justin would want to go anywhere with an undefined role to start over.
He's the focal point at Marquette with a shot to be Big East PoY. I imagine it's NBA or Marquette.
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I don't know that Justin would want to go anywhere with an undefined role to start over.
He's the focal point at Marquette with a shot to be Big East PoY. I imagine it's NBA or Marquette.
I agree with this analysis. All indications are that he really likes his teammates and Shaka. He probably still has contact with Dawson and can get some good input on how green the grass is (or isn't) over on the other side of the fence.
Having said that, I still think he's going pro.
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I don't know that Justin would want to go anywhere with an undefined role to start over.
He's the focal point at Marquette with a shot to be Big East PoY. I imagine it's NBA or Marquette.
He's going to be a focal point anywhere he goes if its its the NCAA. I can pretty much guarantee you that if Justin declares for the draft, he'll be hearing from all the blue bloods. Now if that interests Justin or not - I cannot say. But I don't think its farfetched at all.
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After watching many of the tourney games over the last week I realized how many big time players are out there. Justin is a super player with a lot of talent who has made major strides in his game over the last year but I think at least one more year of college play is warranted.
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He's going to be a focal point anywhere he goes if its its the NCAA. I can pretty much guarantee you that if Justin declares for the draft, he'll be hearing from all the blue bloods. Now if that interests Justin or not - I cannot say. But I don't think its farfetched at all.
Thats just incorrect.
Hearing from Blue bloods and being the focal point on them all is much different.
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Did Garcia think he was not going to even average 10 points a game at NC? Sure he thought he was going to be the man, did not happen
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Thats just incorrect.
Hearing from Blue bloods and being the focal point on them all is much different.
Hearing from Blue bloods and being promised being the focal point is what will impact the decision. Whether he is or is not will be too late to matter.
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Did Garcia think he was not going to even average 10 points a game at NC? Sure he thought he was going to be the man, did not happen
That's a bit of a mischaracterization. He was averaging 10.8 pts & 5.3 rebounds before he went down with a concussion early in their game against BC on 1/2. Sat out two, played 3 more with significantly worse stats, and then left the team for the remainder of the year.
He may not have been "the man", but up to that point he was certainly more than a role player as he averaged ~22 min per game.
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Justin is a versatile, talented player. He is a bit slower than the average wing that NBA scouts are looking at. At 6'7 he's plenty agile but plays at more of a methodical pace. I think he'll struggle more to get his shots in the pros whether it's his post game of jumper.
I wouldn't blame him if he left but I think he's a g-league guy at the moment with NBA potential if he works hard.
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Top 40 picks should leave. Guaranteed money and nearly guaranteed roster time.
Justin is there.
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That's a bit of a mischaracterization. He was averaging 10.8 pts & 5.3 rebounds before he went down with a concussion early in their game against BC on 1/2. Sat out two, played 3 more with significantly worse stats, and then left the team for the remainder of the year.
He may not have been "the man", but up to that point he was certainly more than a role player as he averaged ~22 min per game.
10.8 and 5.3 is a step down from where Justin wants to be. Garcia was on draft boards and obviously he has had some family matters that have prevented him from playing but even before then saw his name almost completely disappear from boards.
Nothing is out of the realm of possibility but if Justin is anywhere but the G-League or Marquette next season I'd be surprised.
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That's a bit of a mischaracterization. He was averaging 10.8 pts & 5.3 rebounds before he went down with a concussion early in their game against BC on 1/2. Sat out two, played 3 more with significantly worse stats, and then left the team for the remainder of the year.
Probably the best situation for the team was Garcia leaving, Black is much quicker and better defender then Garcia.
He may not have been "the man", but up to that point he was certainly more than a role player as he averaged ~22 min per game.
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He not ready for primetime yet.
Go have a burger
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That's a bit of a mischaracterization. He was averaging 10.8 pts & 5.3 rebounds before he went down with a concussion early in their game against BC on 1/2. Sat out two, played 3 more with significantly worse stats, and then left the team for the remainder of the year.
He may not have been "the man", but up to that point he was certainly more than a role player as he averaged ~22 min per game.
Rocky
One thing that’s not a mischaracterization - UNC is a much better team with his 22 minutes going elsewhere.
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Go have a burger
Haha
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One thing that’s not a mischaracterization - UNC is a much better team with his 22 minutes going elsewhere.
Sure, but that's about as relevant to my post, as my post was to a thread about JLs future.
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Appreciate everyone’s posts. You all have me convinced he’s gone. Now how do we make the dance without him?
I’m sure this has been posted but what does everyone think about Justin and his probability of returning next year? I think there are serious holes in his game but maybe it’s the state of going to the NBA now where guys have serious holes in their game and will be first round picks.
I think we need him to get back to the big dance next year, maybe thats stating the obvious. I think he got into a little bit of hero ball mode, along with Morsell, which didn’t help anything. And that’s more than just yesterdays game. Our ball movement went down the past month.
I like
Kam
Tyler
Stevie
Justin
Oso
Omax
Plus any new additions as an OK core going in the next year. I’m just overthinking yesterday at work just curious on what you guys think the team will look like next year
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Easy...recruit better talent. Not only will MU reach the Tourney, but they'll actually win games, hey?
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Easy...recruit better talent. Not only will MU reach the Tourney, but they'll actually win games, hey?
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Kolek commented on that instagram post "To many more *eyes emoji*"
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The fact that this has gone on for 2 pages without any consideration of NIL is pretty surprising. I am not saying Justin is going to make a ton of $$ off of possible NIL deals but he could make some $$$ while continuing to work on his game. Thats definitely a new wrinkle in this. Those suggesting hes going to transfer after he stuck out a coaching change I think are delusional. Those saying all top 40 picks should leave....how many guys outside of the first round even outside of the lottery actually stick in the NBA?? I would guess a small percentage.
It comes down to Justin and no one has any idea-Were gonna go through the usual BS of trying to interpret a 20 year olds IG posts...Most logical thing is to declare, get feedback, and then make a decision from there. We are no where close to an answer on this barring Justin really loving MU and Shaka and letting us all know hes staying (which I highly doubt happens)
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The fact that this has gone on for 2 pages without any consideration of NIL is pretty surprising. I am not saying Justin is going to make a ton of $$ off of possible NIL deals but he could make some $$$ while continuing to work on his game. Thats definitely a new wrinkle in this. Those suggesting hes going to transfer after he stuck out a coaching change I think are delusional. Those saying all top 40 picks should leave....how many guys outside of the first round even outside of the lottery actually stick in the NBA?? I would guess a small percentage.
It comes down to Justin and no one has any idea-Were gonna go through the usual BS of trying to interpret a 20 year olds IG posts...Most logical thing is to declare, get feedback, and then make a decision from there. We are no where close to an answer on this barring Justin really loving MU and Shaka and letting us all know hes staying (which I highly doubt happens)
NIL for College Basketball players without a cult/social media following is negligible in comparison to a guaranteed 2nd draft pick. (which is typically the top 10 picks in the 2nd round). Look at the 2023 class. Skyy Clark was once a 5 star, got a social media following, got injured and became a 4 star, and now has a NIL estimated value on on3.com of $204k. They estimate he can charge 2.6k per Instagram post. Cason Wallace, on of the best guards in the class, a true 5 star, has an estimated value on on3.com of $25k. They estimate he can charge $239 per post. I picked Cason because he has 3k less IG followers than Justin.
NIL isn't "real" money without large amounts of followers or unless you are playing football.
40th pick in the NBA was $2,488,776 guaranteed at signing last year.
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The fact that this has gone on for 2 pages without any consideration of NIL is pretty surprising. I am not saying Justin is going to make a ton of $$ off of possible NIL deals but he could make some $$$ while continuing to work on his game. Thats definitely a new wrinkle in this.
It really comes down to donors. I'm sure selling duck nachos puts a few bucks in his pockets, but not enough that it offsets what he'd make on even a G-League deal. I think the real question is if some donor would throw $50-100k his way to stay for an extra year. While the money might not be as good, if it's a year of getting enough money to get by while increasing your exposure because you play on FS1 every game while putting in an All-American campaign, being drafted in the 20s next year could be a legitimate argument as opposed to the 40s this year.
I'm not advocating for this. If I'm advising Justin, I think he should at the minimum test the waters and see if anyone will guarantee him a 3-year deal which would make further pursuing college a waste of time. But if that guarantee isn't there, NIL and better exposure than the G-League isn't the worst thing.
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It really comes down to donors. I'm sure selling duck nachos puts a few bucks in his pockets, but not enough that it offsets what he'd make on even a G-League deal. I think the real question is if some donor would throw $50-100k his way to stay for an extra year. While the money might not be as good, if it's a year of getting enough money to get by while increasing your exposure because you play on FS1 every game while putting in an All-American campaign, being drafted in the 20s next year could be a legitimate argument as opposed to the 40s this year.
I'm not advocating for this. If I'm advising Justin, I think he should at the minimum test the waters and see if anyone will guarantee him a 3-year deal which would make further pursuing college a waste of time. But if that guarantee isn't there, NIL and better exposure than the G-League isn't the worst thing.
I think NIL is going to keep the Vander’s of the world in college. Where they are late second rounders or border-line draft picks. You still get to make some cash and not have to go overseas.
I don’t think NIL is going to do much for the first rounders as far as keeping them in school.
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I think NIL is going to keep the Vander’s of the world in college. Where they are late second rounders or border-line draft picks. You still get to make some cash and not have to go overseas.
I don’t think NIL is going to do much for the first rounders as far as keeping them in school.
Yup, it will matter for the fringe draft guys. Though this year it might help a little more than other years. If a prospect is looking at fringe-NBA to overseas as his options, do you really want to go to Europe when there's a war going on? With Maurice Creek's struggle to get out of Ukraine, Britney Griner being locked up in Russia, and the potential for the war to spread to other countries, an extra year in college might look a little more appealing than it has in years past.
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It really comes down to donors. I'm sure selling duck nachos puts a few bucks in his pockets, but not enough that it offsets what he'd make on even a G-League deal. I think the real question is if some donor would throw $50-100k his way to stay for an extra year. While the money might not be as good, if it's a year of getting enough money to get by while increasing your exposure because you play on FS1 every game while putting in an All-American campaign, being drafted in the 20s next year could be a legitimate argument as opposed to the 40s this year.
I'm not advocating for this. If I'm advising Justin, I think he should at the minimum test the waters and see if anyone will guarantee him a 3-year deal which would make further pursuing college a waste of time. But if that guarantee isn't there, NIL and better exposure than the G-League isn't the worst thing.
Could you imagine not having to pay for school and getting paid $50k-$100k to be a College Kid?
Also can't you graduate in 3 years nowadays? Maybe he can get a degree on top of it all.
He did fall to the 40 range in the Givony mock and still isn't included in a large number of other mocks. He'll make the right choice no matter which route he chooses.
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Could you imagine not having to pay for school and getting paid $50k-$100k to be a College Kid?
Being a high-level D-1 athlete in a revenue generating sport is nothing like being a "college kid."
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Being a high-level D-1 athlete in a revenue generating sport is nothing like being a "college kid."
True.
It should read "as a College Kid" or "to live the College Experience."
The NBA and other professional leagues last forever and will always be there. You only get a certain amount of years to play basketball in front of good crowds with student sections and the college atmosphere.
If you can get paid to do it knowing you'll still get drafted next year it may impact a decision.
Regardless of what Justin decides to do, it'll be the right choice.
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True.
It should read "as a College Kid" or "to live the College Experience."
The NBA and other professional leagues last forever and will always be there. You only get a certain amount of years to play basketball in front of good crowds with student sections and the college atmosphere.
If you can get paid to do it knowing you'll still get drafted next year it may impact a decision.
Regardless of what Justin decides to do, it'll be the right choice.
You only get a certain number of years to play basketball period - even less if you get injured - so the NBA and other professional leagues will not "always be there" a viable alternative.
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You only get a certain number of years to play basketball period - even less if you get injured - so the NBA and other professional leagues will not "always be there" a viable alternative.
Right, but the higher you are drafted, the more guaranteed money AND the more likely it is you get a shot to play early in your career. Doing so gives you the opportunity to play longer in the league.
You see it so often a guy leaves early and fizzles out before getting any real shot in the league because they get stuck in the D League and can't get out.
That's exactly why whatever Justin chooses to do will be the right decision. He will get all the information/advice/etc. to make the right choice.
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It really comes down to donors. I'm sure selling duck nachos puts a few bucks in his pockets, but not enough that it offsets what he'd make on even a G-League deal. I think the real question is if some donor would throw $50-100k his way to stay for an extra year. While the money might not be as good, if it's a year of getting enough money to get by while increasing your exposure because you play on FS1 every game while putting in an All-American campaign, being drafted in the 20s next year could be a legitimate argument as opposed to the 40s this year.
I'm not advocating for this. If I'm advising Justin, I think he should at the minimum test the waters and see if anyone will guarantee him a 3-year deal which would make further pursuing college a waste of time. But if that guarantee isn't there, NIL and better exposure than the G-League isn't the worst thing.
I've seen "duck nachos" pop up around #mubb twitter the past few weeks - what does it mean?
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I've seen "duck nachos" pop up around #mubb twitter the past few weeks - what does it mean?
Justin has a deal with a bar, and one of their products are duck nachos.
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Justin has a deal with a bar, and one of their products are duck nachos.
Got it, thanks
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Justin has a deal with a bar, and one of their products are duck nachos.
Those are OK but manatee nachos are the bomb!
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Justin has a deal with a bar, and one of their products are duck nachos.
Comet cafe (RIP) had duck fries that were pretty incredible.
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I've seen "duck nachos" pop up around #mubb twitter the past few weeks - what does it mean?
Justin Lewis has an NIL deal with Uncle Buck's, a bar and grill right around the corner from the Fiserv. While he has his own signature burger there, they also have duck nachos on the menu, so the quick pivot for Lewis once his NIL pics started popping up was that he was advertising for duck nachos.
https://unclebucksonthird.com/milwaukee-uncle-bucks-food-menu
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Comet cafe (RIP) had duck fries that were pretty incredible.
Duck fat fries are probably the most delicious side that man has ever created.
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Duck fat fries are probably the most delicious side that man has ever created.
Indeed, still one of my favorite things I’ve ever eaten.
Though the warm German potato salad from Brat Stop in Kenosha is certainly up there amongst best sides as well.
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Comet cafe (RIP) had duck fries that were pretty incredible.
Comet is gone??? :(
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Those are OK but manatee nachos are the bomb!
Manatee is high in fat and cholesterol.
Next to farm-raised gator, it's a Florida favorite 8-)
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Comet is gone??? :(
It was. Some bad ownership/COVID killed it in July 2020.
Restaurant was reacquired by former owners and they plan on opening this spring I believe.
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The fact that this has gone on for 2 pages without any consideration of NIL is pretty surprising. I am not saying Justin is going to make a ton of $$ off of possible NIL deals but he could make some $$$ while continuing to work on his game. Thats definitely a new wrinkle in this. Those suggesting hes going to transfer after he stuck out a coaching change I think are delusional. Those saying all top 40 picks should leave....how many guys outside of the first round even outside of the lottery actually stick in the NBA?? I would guess a small percentage.
It comes down to Justin and no one has any idea-Were gonna go through the usual BS of trying to interpret a 20 year olds IG posts...Most logical thing is to declare, get feedback, and then make a decision from there. We are no where close to an answer on this barring Justin really loving MU and Shaka and letting us all know hes staying (which I highly doubt happens)
In the 6th comment of this thread, I wrote this:
Does anybody here know Justin Lewis?
How has he liked his Marquette experience overall? Does he value learning in a college environment? Does he love his coaches and teammates? Are he and his family in good shape financially? Has he explored if he can earn real money in NIL next year? Is he simply ready for a change? Is he driven to want to make Marquette great next season? Is getting a degree, whether in the next few years or eventually, important to him? Do his family, friends and others he trusts to give him advice think he should stay or go? Has anybody connected with the NBA told him or his advisers what they think his prospects are? What has Shaka said to him about the subject in their conversations?
So yes, NIL was mentioned in this thread. Also, many of us have discussed Justin's NIL prospects in other threads.
I like to think that Justin and his advisers will consider NIL and all kinds of other things before making their decision. We still have no answers to any of the questions I asked in my earlier comment, so we're all just speculating. But hey, what's a fan board for, anyway?
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Justin Lewis has an NIL deal with Uncle Buck's, a bar and grill right around the corner from the Fiserv. While he has his own signature burger there, they also have duck nachos on the menu, so the quick pivot for Lewis once his NIL pics started popping up was that he was advertising for duck nachos.
https://unclebucksonthird.com/milwaukee-uncle-bucks-food-menu
Maybe this is more direct and to the point:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CY68vrzFOk1/
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Yup, it will matter for the fringe draft guys. Though this year it might help a little more than other years. If a prospect is looking at fringe-NBA to overseas as his options, do you really want to go to Europe when there's a war going on? With Maurice Creek's struggle to get out of Ukraine, Britney Griner being locked up in Russia, and the potential for the war to spread to other countries, an extra year in college might look a little more appealing than it has in years past.
I don’t know if I agree with this. Save for CSKA Moscow and Zenit. Most of the high level Euro ball is outside of Russia.
Creek’s story is remarkable and frightening but he’s a journeyman who never played very high level basketball.
For the guys who are fringe NBA right now, I don’t think the situation in Ukraine suddenly makes playing in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, or Germany a monumental concern. I think it complicates things for guys like Greg Elliott who will play professionally if they so wish, but not amongst the top tier, cause the leagues in Eastern Europe could be of some concern.
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I don’t know if I agree with this. Save for CSKA Moscow and Zenit. Most of the high level Euro ball is outside of Russia.
Creek’s story is remarkable and frightening but he’s a journeyman who never played very high level basketball.
For the guys who are fringe NBA right now, I don’t think the situation in Ukraine suddenly makes playing in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, or Germany a monumental concern. I think it complicates things for guys like Greg Elliott who will play professionally if they so wish, but not amongst the top tier, cause the leagues in Eastern Europe could be of some concern.
I think a lot of guys that think they are close to the league end up latching on where they can, and the longer this goes on the more countries that could get involved.
Having a war a country or two away, when countries are the size of states, is likely less appealing than not having a war relatively close.
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I think a lot of guys that think they are close to the league end up latching on where they can, and the longer this goes on the more countries that could get involved.
Having a war a country or two away, when countries are the size of states, is likely less appealing than not having a war relatively close.
putin is toast. Joe has a plan
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Manatee is high in fat and cholesterol.
Next to farm-raised gator, it's a Florida favorite 8-)
A totally unacceptable and inexcusable conversation.
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A totally unacceptable and inexcusable conversation.
Agreed. Need to save it for tasty creatures like Pangolins and lemurs
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Agreed. Need to save it for tasty creatures like Pangolins and lemurs
Not funny and extremely offensive.
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Agreed. Need to save it for tasty creatures like Pangolins and lemurs
Lemurs are delicious
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Indeed, still one of my favorite things I’ve ever eaten.
Though the warm German potato salad from Brat Stop in Kenosha is certainly up there amongst best sides as well.
Dude, stop eating at the Brat Stop, please.
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Maybe this is more direct and to the point:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CY68vrzFOk1/
All this time, I've been sleeping on the duck nachos and didn't even know it. Apparently even Charlie Pierce is more insta-savvy than I am.
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All this time, I've been sleeping on the duck nachos and didn't even know it. Apparently even Charlie Pierce is more insta-savvy than I am.
CP's twitter is lib heroin
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Justin slipped to the 40-50 range for Wasserman.
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Manatee is high in fat and cholesterol.
Next to farm-raised gator, it's a Florida favorite 8-)
Right on brother dgies, manatee is the "bacon of the Caribbean"
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Justin slipped to the 40-50 range for Wasserman.
42. Never heard of this guy, but it looks like from his write up, he doesn’t talk to any teams.
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Yeah, I can't find anything that still has him in R1.
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putin is toast. Joe Justin has a plan
FIFY
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putin is toast. Joe Trevor Mbakwe has a plan
FIFY
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FIFY
You caught my reference. I was hoping we might do it differently this time.
Trevor would have none of that.
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Crazy how quiet this situation has been.
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Crazy how quiet this situation has been.
Honestly think Marquette is trying to get the bag drop ready.
If he stays, wouldn’t shock me to see Justin Lewis in a Camping World commercial not long after that.
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Honestly think Marquette is trying to get the bag drop ready.
If he stays, wouldn’t shock me to see Justin Lewis in a Camping World commercial not long after that.
Sounds like a strong offer.
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Actuall6, if you see yourself not really going high in the draft and you can see yourself making some decent money staying in college, maybe you stay. Times they are a changing…..
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Sounds like a strong offer.
I don’t think he will stay, but if there’s someone who will drop some serious coin for Marquette, and actually has a product to promote it’s Lemoins.
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He didn't make his bread being foolish. What does Justin Lewis do for Camping World, hey?
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He didn't make his bread being foolish. What does Justin Lewis do for Camping World, hey?
What does Shaka do for the guy who bought out Wojo's contract so Shaka could be Marquette's new coach?
Did that guy make his bread being foolish?
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What does Shaka do for the guy who bought out Wojo's contract so Shaka could be Marquette's new coach?
Did that guy make his bread being foolish?
Is this serious question? You can't be serious, hey?
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They're both just ways to help the Marquette basketball program.
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You can help the basketball team and in turn the University at both a micro (NIL Lewis) and macro (Coaching buyout) level. Both need to be done for the long term sustained success of the program.
I do not believe this is debatable.
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I 100% believe that MU will be competitive in the NIL market. Supporting the program can be done in many ways and I think we have enough wealthy alums that are willing to be part of NIL with little gain for them or their companies. Making the basketball program achieve a loftier position in college basketball ranks is a major positive for the university. The world has changed and getting donors to partake has changed as well.
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Is this serious question?
Yes. Listen to your friend.
I 100% believe that MU will be competitive in the NIL market. Supporting the program can be done in many ways and I think we have enough wealthy alums that are willing to be part of NIL with little gain for them or their companies. Making the basketball program achieve a loftier position in college basketball ranks is a major positive for the university. The world has changed and getting donors to partake has changed as well.
You need to tell that to your dentist friend. He thinks that no wealthy alums should or will support NILs for athletes because it won't help the alums make money. But he thinks alums spent millions to enact a coaching change because that somehow will help them make money. Perhaps a little too much nitrous in Doc Dribble's office air!
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I 100% believe that MU will be competitive in the NIL market.
Agree completely with this, with or without the University's direction.
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82
We might be meat summit partners, but I disagree with his feelings on the NIL. We have discussed it several times and we have a difference of opinion on the topic. I know that us meat guys have each other's back and all, but I have no doubt MU will play the NIL game well.
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Goose and Brew,
I like that you both think MU will be competitive with NIL. Besides Justin’s restaurant deal have you heard about other NIL money in the pipeline? You both seem in tune to the program or at least the pulse of the Milwaukee area. Have you heard anything to justify this take?
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Shooter
I have no inside info, strictly going off common sense. There is too much money invested in the program to not partake in NIL and build the program further. As I mentioned, the game has changed, and NIL is a big part of it. All I know, it is often noted on here how other programs have guys on the payroll prior to NIL, so I would think getting guys to support players in NIL should not be a problem. The guys supporting those programs prior to NIL were not getting any ROI and still did it.
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I think eventually the NIL structure is pretty much going to fade away anyway. Eventually they will just get rid of the middle-man and allow direct pay-to-play.
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Shooter
I have no inside info, strictly going off common sense. There is too much money invested in the program to not partake in NIL and build the program further. As I mentioned, the game has changed, and NIL is a big part of it. All I know, it is often noted on here how other programs have guys on the payroll prior to NIL, so I would think getting guys to support players in NIL should not be a problem. The guys supporting those programs prior to NIL were not getting any ROI and still did it.
Thanks for the reply. I do hope our alums with businesses step up. The path to building a consistently top tier program is getting more difficult with the coaching changes in the Big East and the transfer portal. NIL could be the difference between the haves and the have nots.
Would hate to lose a Lewis in part due to NIL, if he doesn’t go pro, to the transfer portal. If Lewis knows that he and others on the team will be taken care of financially he would be much more likely to stay.
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Have you heard anything to justify this take?
Yes, but I don't have any specifics. As Goose said, there are big donors invested in the program.
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What about the NILs for the all the other guys? Do we want to keep them? Will the NCAA put an NIL cap on teams like MLB to even the field? I see how it benefits the players, but not sure how it benefits Marquette.
At some point in will no longer be an athletic department but a marketing department for the University.
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Intercollegiate Athletics at Marquette has long been the primary marketing department for the University.
And no, the NCAA is not going to be capping anything. Basically it's the wild west right now, and its going to get even wilder in the coming years. My guess is that "recruiting violations" will be a thing of the past in about a decade. (The NCAA will likely still keep a calendar of some sort.)
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Hardly ever post, but is there anything wrong with a "go fund me" approach to allow those of us without the ability to act alone to participate in NIL? Maybe a "meat eaters" fund for appearances at the annual event. ;) 8-)
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Hardly ever post, but is there anything wrong with a "go fund me" approach to allow those of us without the ability to act alone to participate in NIL? Maybe a "meat eaters" fund for appearances at the annual event. ;) 8-)
I haven't read any of the NIL rules, but presumably at a minimum it needs to be a legal & taxable business transaction. i.e. - at least a 1099 would be issued for whatever NIL service they are providing. Cash under the table is still not allowed.
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What about the NILs for the all the other guys? Do we want to keep them? Will the NCAA put an NIL cap on teams like MLB to even the field? I see how it benefits the players, but not sure how it benefits Marquette.
At some point in will no longer be an athletic department but a marketing department for the University.
I remember when a nickel bought a pop
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I remember when a nickel bought a pop
My man ain't from Milwaukee.
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Get each player connected with a Milwaukee area car dealership.
That's what I've seen from a handful of players around the country.
Example: https://www.instagram.com/p/CblB1yHL5jI/?utm_medium=copy_link
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I remember when a nickel bought a pop
50cents a PBR at the ‘lanch
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I remember when a nickel bought a pop
I remember student tickets to the games costing 50 cents plus 2 cents tax.
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I remember when a nickel bought a pop
I’ve only ever bought soda
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My neighbor played hoops and his wife volleyball at Ohio State and is in financial services now...I was talking to him a few weeks ago and he was talking about how there were multiple groups starting up in Columbus that were setting up funds for this purpose. Didn't sound like small donors but bigger fish pulling there money to spread it beyond the stars and even beyond football and hoops. Next time I see him I will try to pry a little more info out of him.
Hardly ever post, but is there anything wrong with a "go fund me" approach to allow those of us without the ability to act alone to participate in NIL? Maybe a "meat eaters" fund for appearances at the annual event. ;) 8-)
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My man ain't from Milwaukee.
That's what we called it in Kenosha.
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What about the NILs for the all the other guys? Do we want to keep them? Will the NCAA put an NIL cap on teams like MLB to even the field? I see how it benefits the players, but not sure how it benefits Marquette.
At some point in will no longer be an athletic department but a marketing department for the University.
It has nothing to do with Marquette.
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Lemurs are delicious
Ever tried Lemur kabobs? Heavenly.
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Get each player connected with a Milwaukee area car dealership.
That's what I've seen from a handful of players around the country.
Example: https://www.instagram.com/p/CblB1yHL5jI/?utm_medium=copy_link
Only commercials that I seen in the Racine area were from Johnny Davis and Braelon Allen. Can't remember what Allen's was for. Davis was for Jockey (he just goes around telling everybody how great I am).
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Ever tried Lemur kabobs? Heavenly.
Femur Lemur is to die for.
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Only commercials that I seen in the Racine area were from Johnny Davis and Braelon Allen. Can't remember what Allen's was for. Davis was for Jockey (he just goes around telling everybody how great I am).
Ironjoc apparel. "Yes, I am 18 now"...which is really weird.
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Femur Lemur is to die for.
The Thai recipe I have for lemur is killer.
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MU needs to get more involved with this individual, William C.Stone. 1977 Grad who has given $50 million to various IU Evansville Health initiatives. Money is fungible. If this fellow were to give a similar amount to MU general fund, some funds could find there were to a marketing fund for Student Athletes.
https://medicine.iu.edu/news/2021/12/evansville-natives-give-34-million-to-iu-school-of-medicine-for-child-and-adolescent-psychiatry-center
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MU needs to get more involved with this individual, William C.Stone. 1977 Grad who has given $50 million to various IU Evansville Health initiatives. Money is fungible. If this fellow were to give a similar amount to MU general fund, some funds could find there were to a marketing fund for Student Athletes.
https://medicine.iu.edu/news/2021/12/evansville-natives-give-34-million-to-iu-school-of-medicine-for-child-and-adolescent-psychiatry-center
Its interesting, you have a founder and chairman of a HUGE publicaly traded company, who doesn't appear to be publicity shy or private about donations...yet has no notably connection to his alma mater other than the school mentioned in his bio and a blurb on the business school website.
Maybe Real Chili made him sick one time.
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Its interesting, you have a founder and chairman of a HUGE publicaly traded company, who doesn't appear to be publicity shy or private about donations...yet has no notably connection to his alma mater other than the school mentioned in his bio and a blurb on the business school website.
Maybe Real Chili made him sick one time.
Or maybe he is involved in a lot of things including Marquette.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2012/recipient_Stone.php
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Or maybe he is involved in a lot of things including Marquette.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2012/recipient_Stone.php
Seems really dedicated to his hometown. Not a bad thing.
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Or maybe he is involved in a lot of things including Marquette.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2012/recipient_Stone.php
A single award from an alumni weekend a decade ago doesn't really seem like he's quite involved with MU.
I'm not knocking the guy. He's clearly involved in a lot, it just doesn't seem like there is a ton of MU ties like other wealthy/prominent alumni. Evansville is a clear priority for him, which is cool.
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A single award from an alumni weekend a decade ago doesn't really seem like he's quite involved with MU.
I'm not knocking the guy. He's clearly involved in a lot, it just doesn't seem like there is a ton of MU ties like other wealthy/prominent alumni. Evansville is a clear priority for him, which is cool.
I studied Mr. Stones history. It is fascinating. An extremely talented individual .
He built up his company through a series of small software acquisitions, took it public then went private in partnership with a big Private Equity investor. Cashing out a little bit each time.
He then took the business public again, cashed out some , then has held most of the shares he had since taking it public , Looks like enough to fund some of the charitable contributions in the Evansville area. Still owns $2.6 Billion in stock and clocking 26 million annually in dividends.
My guess is Marquette is staying close to him and maybe given the scope of his wealth, there may be something significant estate planning involving MU.
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I think it’s kinda weird that we haven’t even heard Justin declare and not hire an agent yet.
You would think he would go through the process and the very minimum.
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I think it’s kinda weird that we haven’t even heard Justin declare and not hire an agent yet.
You would think he would go through the process and the very minimum.
He has until the 24th to declare. Plenty of time.
He then has 5 weeks to decide if he is going.
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A single award from an alumni weekend a decade ago doesn't really seem like he's quite involved with MU.
I'm not knocking the guy. He's clearly involved in a lot, it just doesn't seem like there is a ton of MU ties like other wealthy/prominent alumni. Evansville is a clear priority for him, which is cool.
And maybe he decided he would rather use his money to help sick children.
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And maybe he decided he would rather use his money to help sick children.
What a jerk.
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ESPN Write up on Justin. They have him ranked as 11th SF and 37th overall in Their Draft Analysis.
Here is the link for all the players . The PBJ review is interesting.
https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable
Pre-Draft Analysis
March 21, 2022: (2022 NBA mock draft: Where they rank after the first weekend of the NCAA tournament) -- Entering the NCAA tournament as a fringe first-round prospect, the 19-year-old Lewis was unable to solidify his stock as he turned in an uninspiring 2-for-15 performance in an ugly 32-point loss to North Carolina. Despite big games against DePaul (26 points,10 rebounds) and St. John's (28 points, seven rebounds) down the stretch of the season, Lewis ends his sophomore campaign as one of the more perplexing prospects in this class given the stark difference between his best and worst games.
The Golden Eagles had no answer for Caleb Love's 21-point first half, and Lewis struggled to knock down slip-out 3s (2-for-7), finishing the year at 35% from beyond the arc on 5.2 attempts per game. Lewis is still very much learning when to take spot-up 3s versus when to attack off the bounce, as he tends to rely on out-of-rhythm jumpers or forced drives to the rim, where he's more strong and powerful than quick and explosive. Lewis' lack of elite burst showed on downhill attacks against the Tar Heels, and he missed a few bunnies in traffic (0-for-8 from 2), bringing his finishing percentage to 47.1%, which ranks 198th out of 203 players in the NCAA to take over 120 shots at the rim in the half court.
Lewis did change several shots at the rim with his 7-2 wingspan, suggesting he can play some small-ball 5 at the next level such as Charlotte's P.J. Washington. The small center role might ultimately be Lewis' most advantageous position as he's not quick-footed or consistently locked in guarding the perimeter (on and off the ball) and needs to still improve as an offensive decision-maker, finding more ways to add value when he's not making shots. There's no question that Lewis made a huge jump this season, and the fact that he's still 19 years old with NBA length and strength, a projectable shooting stroke and solid ball skills for a player his size makes him undoubtedly interesting to scouts. But Lewis didn't help himself against the Tar Heels, and he'll surely have to have a strong pre-draft process to prove he's worthy of a June first-round selection -- Mike Schmitz
March 15, 2022: (2022 NBA mock draft: Drafting players competing in the NCAA tournament) -- What to watch for: Lewis is a scoring forward with NBA tools standing 6-foot-7 with a powerful 245-pound frame and a huge 7-foot-2 wingspan. When Lewis is at his best, it's easy to see him filling a role in the NBA pick-and-pop 4 -man who can even slide up to the small-ball 5 some given his strength and length. Whether it's Eric Paschall or P.J. Washington, there are players in Lewis' mold having success in the NBA. Scouts will want to see Lewis make better decisions, play with more energy defensively and find more ways to impact the game when the tough jump shots he tends to live off of aren't falling. The age of most freshmen, outplaying potential lottery picks such as Baylor's Kendall Brown and Jeremy Sochan in a potential second-round matchup would help Lewis secure his standing as a first-round prospect. -- Mike Schmitz
November 30, 2021: (Top 100) -- The 19-year-old sophomore Lewis has taken a huge step so far this season, emerging as Marquette's leading scorer (17.3 points) and evolving into a legitimate floor spacer after shooting just 22% from 3 a season ago. Despite being the same age as some freshmen, Lewis has been incredibly consistent so far this season under Shaka Smart, scoring at least 15 points in every game thanks to his ability to knock down open shots and score out of the mid-post.
Physically, Lewis is hard to miss at 6-7, 245 pounds with a 7-2 wingspan, comparing favorably to names like Draymond Green, Paul Millsap, and Eric Paschall from a physical perspective. In part because of his impressive profile, Lewis was identified early by USA Basketball, joining the program for camps as a 14-year-old.
Despite his strength, length and offensive improvement, Lewis' decision-making and overall feel for the game is a work in progress (6 assists to 12 turnovers in 222 minutes). He's still learning how to read closeouts, when to shoot versus when to drive and how to effectively see the floor on the fly. On top of that, Lewis is more strong and powerful than he is quick or explosive, and scouts will want to see whether he can step out and check true combo forward types or guards on switches while knowing where to be off the ball.
But because of his NFL body and huge wingspan, Lewis has been able to play some 5 for Smart, something that could certainly continue in the NBA, as has occurred for similarly profiled players Green, Paschall and Millsap at times. Every coach wants a body they can throw at James or Antetokounmpo while adding some value offensively. While still at an early stage of development skill-wise, Lewis fits that mold, and could garner first-round interest if Marquette keeps winning and he proves his shooting is for real while showing enough glimpses as a passer and defender. -- Mike Schmitz
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That’s a good analysis of Lewis. I can see him as an undersized 5 more than I can see him as a wing.
If MU doesn’t land a good big in the portal and Lewis stays, I’d really like to see him play the 5 here. I truly think we would have been a lot better down the stretch last year playing him at the 5.
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That’s a good analysis of Lewis. I can see him as an undersized 5 more than I can see him as a wing.
If MU doesn’t land a good big in the portal and Lewis stays, I’d really like to see him play the 5 here. I truly think we would have been a lot better down the stretch last year playing him at the 5.
Justin would seem to fit a Thaddeus Young/Taj Gibson role in the league.
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And maybe he decided he would rather use his money to help sick children.
Basketball players get sick too. ;D
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Took a tour of the Fiserv today and saw his name-plate still on his locker. So maybe we got a chance 🤞🤞🤞
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Took a tour of the Fiserv today and saw his name-plate still on his locker. So maybe we got a chance 🤞🤞🤞
Were Kur’s and Darryl’s gone?
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You never know ... but...
-- Given the comments made in the above articles, Justin would be well-advised to spend one more year at least in college. Given the way he grew as a player in 2021-2022, another year under Shaka's tutelage hopefully will markedly improve his draft capital.
-- I'm sure Justin is smart (he is, after all, at Marquette) and I'm sure he'll take the advice of his advisors and coaches and do what's in his best long-term interests.
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You never know ... but...
-- Given the comments made in the above articles, Justin would be well-advised to spend one more year at least in college. Given the way he grew as a player in 2021-2022, another year under Shaka's tutelage hopefully will markedly improve his draft capital.
-- I'm sure Justin is smart (he is, after all, at Marquette) and I'm sure he'll take the advice of his advisors and coaches and do what's in his best long-term interests.
So not earning money AND not getting instruction from coaches who have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player is going to be better for Justin?
I don’t see it.
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So not earning money AND not getting instruction from coaches who have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player is going to be better for Justin?
I don’t see it.
Agreed. The big consideration for Justin is whether an extra season in college would help make him a more likely 1st round pick. At this point, he seems to be trending toward a mid-2nd round pick if he goes this year. A huge financial consideration as 1st rounders get guaranteed contracts while 2nd rounders look at a steep uphill climb for the most part. But, sticking around for that possibility is a big IF.
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So not earning money AND not getting instruction from coaches who have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player is going to be better for Justin?
I don’t see it.
I have no idea if Justin will come back or not. Early indicators sounded like there was no chance, but right now I think the window is at least cracked open.
But as far as your text...not earning money? He would be earning money, and I expect it would be more than just Duck Nachos. And Marquette's coaches definitely have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player. Shaka did that with players for years at Texas and sending guys to the NBA is more likely to attract future players with similar aspirations. So I think your premise here is completely flawed.
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I've long thought that one of the ways NIL may benefit college basketball is it could make it easier for college players who are projected as mid to late 2nd round picks to justify coming back to school for a year. JLew could end up being one of those players. Selfishly, I hope he does return
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I have no idea if Justin will come back or not. Early indicators sounded like there was no chance, but right now I think the window is at least cracked open.
But as far as your text...not earning money? He would be earning money, and I expect it would be more than just Duck Nachos. And Marquette's coaches definitely have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player. Shaka did that with players for years at Texas and sending guys to the NBA is more likely to attract future players with similar aspirations. So I think your premise here is completely flawed.
He has a better chance at getting better at Marquette than he does in the G League.
If he gets a 1st round guarantee or a guarantee from some team that he'll make the roster he should leave. Neither of those things really happen with fringe guys though.
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He has a better chance at getting better at Marquette than he does in the G League.
Why do you say that? In the G League, with a dedicated team for each NBA team, he gets to work on his game in the system the NBA team has in place. This isn't the G League of 20 years ago. Players routinely play their way into the NBA from the G League these days.
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He has a better chance at getting better at Marquette than he does in the G League.
Disagree. He would have pros training him in an NBA system, NBA conditioning, and none of the scholastic requirements to deter from his development as a player. It's a nice thought that college is a better preparation ground, but I just don't buy it. It is better exposure and might be more fun, but no reason to think it's better for getting better.
If he gets a 1st round guarantee or a guarantee from some team that he'll make the roster he should leave. Neither of those things really happen with fringe guys though.
If he gets that guarantee, he should. And who knows, he might. Knowing that the NBA is Justin's goal, that Shaka has sent multiple players to the NBA, and Nevada Smith came from a G-League staff, at least he should be getting excellent advice on the most beneficial long-term career path.
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Why do you say that?
Coaches more invested in your future. A lot of times getting sent to the G League your with 14 other guys in the same situation. None of your teammates care about anything but their advancement. Games are like 140-130 with no defense playing in front of no crowds.
Meaningful games every night in the Big East with more exposure and more competitive realistic basketball.
If you get placed in the G League it is really really hard to get out.
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Coaches more invested in your future. A lot of times getting sent to the G League your with 14 other guys in the same situation. None of your teammates care about anything but their advancement. Games are like 140-130 with no defense playing in front of no crowds.
Meaningful games every night in the Big East with more exposure and more competitive realistic basketball.
I think you have an over-inflated view of how much players improve in college v. the G-League.
And what does "realistic" basketball mean? Cause IMO the G League is much more than the NBA than the NCAA game is.
If you get placed in the G League it is really really hard to get out.
Well, yeah. Probably because you aren't as good as the NBA players are. The question where is it a better place for your game to develop, and I think given the time investments you can make in the G-League, that its the better place for game development.
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The idea that it is "hard to get out" of the G League is just false. Almost half of the players in the NBA have played in the G League.
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Disagree. He would have pros training him in an NBA system, NBA conditioning, and none of the scholastic requirements to deter from his development as a player. It's a nice thought that college is a better preparation ground, but I just don't buy it. It is better exposure and might be more fun, but no reason to think it's better for getting better.
If he gets that guarantee, he should. And who knows, he might. Knowing that the NBA is Justin's goal, that Shaka has sent multiple players to the NBA, and Nevada Smith came from a G-League staff, at least he should be getting excellent advice on the most beneficial long-term career path.
Did DJ Carton get appreciably better in the G League this year? He had a nice finish versus a limited start but he was pretty much what he was at MU with less minutes.
On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
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Did DJ Carton get appreciably better in the G League this year? He had a nice finish versus a limited start but he was pretty much what he was at MU with less minutes.
On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
DJ Carton and Justin Lewis aren't the same person.
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Did DJ Carton get appreciably better in the G League this year? He had a nice finish versus a limited start but he was pretty much what he was at MU with less minutes.
On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
I think the biggest factor in Justin's jump was health and opportunity. He undoubtedly improved as a player, but we saw glimpses of it his first season.
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I think you have an over-inflated view of how much players improve in college v. the G-League.
And what does "realistic" basketball mean? Cause IMO the G League is much more than the NBA than the NCAA game is.
His take is pretty terrible. A homer college bball fan take. Because without a doubt, G-League basketball is much closer to the NBA game than the college game.
The college game has made strides over the past few years. Pace and spacing have improved, as has freedom of movement. But, it still has a way to go.
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Did DJ Carton get appreciably better in the G League this year? He had a nice finish versus a limited start but he was pretty much what he was at MU with less minutes.
On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
I think they are two different conversations, but according to their website, there are 30 G-League teams allowed 10 players each, and in the 2021-22 season, 116 of them were called up to NBA rosters on 159 occasions. That's a hefty chunk of the league getting an NBA shot (or multiple shots). If you want a path to the NBA, strictly by the numbers, 38.7% of the G-League is getting that shot every year while less than 1% of college players will get the NBA First Round call that guarantees a contract.
I agree that NIL makes staying in college a better option than it was previously. If Justin can make six figures while getting more regular national TV exposure and improve his odds of going from a 30-50 guy that gets a shot but no guarantee to a 20-30 guy that has a definite contract, there's value in that. But I don't think there's any guarantee that he will be a better player because of it, only that the NBA isn't drafting guys out of the G-League (Ignite excluded, which he can't play on anyway) nor handing out guaranteed contracts to those guys until they prove it at the next level.
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Justin has played 2 years of college ball. He's entering that no man's land in the NBA eyes where he may have reached his "potential". IMO, he is out of here.
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I have no idea if Justin will come back or not. Early indicators sounded like there was no chance, but right now I think the window is at least cracked open.
But as far as your text...not earning money? He would be earning money, and I expect it would be more than just Duck Nachos. And Marquette's coaches definitely have a vested interest in making him a better NBA player. Shaka did that with players for years at Texas and sending guys to the NBA is more likely to attract future players with similar aspirations. So I think your premise here is completely flawed.
"Vested interest" was probably the wrong term. I should have said better coaching for a future in the NBA is available if he goes pro now.
Is there a difference in just sending guys to the NBA and sending successful guys? Jarrett Allen is the only Shaka guy having success as of now.
However, like you, I think there is a decent chance that he returns.
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Did DJ Carton get appreciably better in the G League this year? He had a nice finish versus a limited start but he was pretty much what he was at MU with less minutes.
On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
DJ's G League stats per 100 possessions:
January: 17.7 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 3.5 turnovers. 1.1 steals, 0.8 blocks, 47.9 FG%
February: 20.0 points, 7.4 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 3.6 turnovers. 1.9 steals, 0.9 blocks, 48.3 FG%
March: 21.1 points, 5.1 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 2.9 turnovers. 2.9 steals, 1.1 blocks, 44.7 FG%
Seems like there was at least some improvement from DJ in the G League.
And that said. I'm not sure it';s fair to compare one's improvement in college vs any pro league. Justin played against the same level of competition he did a year ago. DJ went from college to the pros. It would be unrealistic to expect similar statistical leaps.
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"Vested interest" was probably the wrong term. I should have said better coaching for a future in the NBA is available if he goes pro now.
Is there a difference in just sending guys to the NBA and sending successful guys? Jarrett Allen is the only Shaka guy having success as of now.
However, like you, I think there is a decent chance that he returns.
Mo Bamba and Jaxson Hayes are having nice years. Greg Brown is having a fine year for a 20 year old rookie.
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I think the biggest factor in Justin's jump was health and opportunity. He undoubtedly improved as a player, but we saw glimpses of it his first season.
What everyone is missing is that Justin didn't have the off season workouts and conditioning as a FR. If I recall, the team didn't get on campus until mid September and then a month later had to shut down for a couple of weeks due to Covid.
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My neighbor played hoops and his wife volleyball at Ohio State and is in financial services now...I was talking to him a few weeks ago and he was talking about how there were multiple groups starting up in Columbus that were setting up funds for this purpose. Didn't sound like small donors but bigger fish pulling there money to spread it beyond the stars and even beyond football and hoops. Next time I see him I will try to pry a little more info out of him.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2022/03/31/ohio-state-football-basketball-players-launch-nil-nonprofit/7218602001/
I'm an Ohio native/Buckeye fan so I've been paying close attention to this- if anything OSU is behind a few of the other power football programs in getting this organized. I would think the MU fan base would be capable of doing something like this on a smaller scale.
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His take is pretty terrible. A homer college bball fan take. Because without a doubt, G-League basketball is much closer to the NBA game than the college game.
The college game has made strides over the past few years. Pace and spacing have improved, as has freedom of movement. But, it still has a way to go.
You're wrong. I want Justin to go to the NBA even if that is this year. However I want him to get a real shot.
Getting drafted in the 45-60 range isn't ideal. I think he is a 1st round talent and he isn't being valued as that.
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On the other hand, JLew markedly improved, especially his pro game. Maybe having Nevada Smith running the offense is a great option to get noticed on the Bucks floor versus playing in front of a few in Greensboro? I don’t think it’s so cut and dried especially with NIL potential.
This implies that fan involvement/interest is equivalent to NBA evaluation. I can assure you there is just as much attention paid to G-League games and players as a random Big East matchup. There is a noted tweet or blurb when NBA scouts are at college games watching Lewis or someone else. There are NBA personnel and evaluators at LITERALLY every G League game.
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This implies that fan involvement/interest is equivalent to NBA evaluation. I can assure you there is just as much attention paid to G-League games and players as a random Big East matchup. There is a noted tweet or blurb when NBA scouts are at college games watching Lewis or someone else. There are NBA personnel and evaluators at LITERALLY every G League game.
I think people have missed the investment the NBA has made in the G-League. It went from a pretty disorganized league to a true minor league for the NBA.
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I think there is something to be said for being THE GUY on a college team regularly playing before 10,000+ people and that should not be dismissed, but by and large I agree the the G League is probably better for a players development.
Shaka needs to win basketball games, whereas the G League is all about prepping players for the NBA. People here have said we'd be better with Lewis at the 5 spot, for example (and I agree), but Lewis at the 5 isn't helping him prep for the NBA. Shaka could potentially decide to do that to help win games, but a G League coach is less likely to have someone with potential in a position he won't play in the NBA, because his job is to prep guys for the big team, not win games.
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I think there is something to be said for being THE GUY on a college team regularly playing before 10,000+ people and that should not be dismissed, but by and large I agree the the G League is probably better for a players development.
Shaka needs to win basketball games, whereas the G League is all about prepping players for the NBA. People here have said we'd be better with Lewis at the 5 spot, for example (and I agree), but Lewis at the 5 isn't helping him prep for the NBA. Shaka could potentially decide to do that to help win games, but a G League coach is less likely to have someone with potential in a position he won't play in the NBA, because his job is to prep guys for the big team, not win games.
Not sure I agree with that. Lewis isn't particularly quick when compared to NBA athletes, but he's strong and has good length. I think playing small-ball 5 could be an ideal role for him in the NBA. I'm sure he'd love to be a JFB-style wing, but I don't know that he's built for that.
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Justin has played 2 years of college ball. He's entering that no man's land in the NBA eyes where he may have reached his "potential". IMO, he is out of here.
So this is the new reality. I don't think MU will ever win another NC if we lose our best players after year 2.
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You're wrong. I want Justin to go to the NBA even if that is this year. However I want him to get a real shot.
Getting drafted in the 45-60 range isn't ideal. I think he is a 1st round talent and he isn't being valued as that.
From what I saw last year, 45-60 is pretty much where I would place him.
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From what I saw last year, 45-60 is pretty much where I would place him.
Maybe, but he has 1st round talent. As hinted at by many scouts, he is the age of most Freshman so age isn't a concern. He's still very raw and inexperienced.
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Maybe, but he has 1st round talent. As hinted at by many scouts, he is the age of most Freshman so age isn't a concern. He's still very raw and inexperienced.
Then why is he projected in the second round?
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Then why is he projected in the second round?
If you read my last sentence...
He is raw and inexperienced. He isn't very good defensively and is slow on his feet. Talent is great. Mechanics need work.
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If you read my last sentence...
He is raw and inexperienced. He isn't very good defensively and is slow on his feet. Talent is great. Mechanics need work.
If he indeed has first round talent, but his mechanics simply needed work, he would be drafted in the in the first round and coached up.
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Justin’s a Wojo guy. We don’t need him. Cut his azz!
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If you read my last sentence...
He is raw and inexperienced. He isn't very good defensively and is slow on his feet. Talent is great. Mechanics need work.
Unless you're John Paxson and Gar Forman, NBA teams don't care about experience. The draft is about potential, measurables, and athleticism. Besides, Justin being slow on his feet is an athleticism issue, not an experience issue.
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Mo Bamba and Jaxson Hayes are having nice years. Greg Brown is having a fine year for a 20 year old rookie.
Yeah, they may turn out fine. Getting a lot of minutes for bottom feeders. Would very seldom see the court on a contender.
But that was kinda my point. They are better off for their futures in the league by having gone pro and getting NBA instruction. Most guys like that are only going to get minutes on bad teams, but they improve more going against NBA players with NBA coaches. It's a completely different game to learn. Might as well get started.
Especially if he is gonna be in the Top 40 or so players that get guaranteed contracts.
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So this is the new reality. I don't think MU will ever win another NC if we lose our best players after year 2.
Yes - Duke and Kentucky are proof of that. Oops, I was wrong. They lose their best players after year 1.
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Justin’s a Wojo guy. We don’t need him. Cut his azz!
Eye'm wit ewe, Nads. Hope he takes his talents elsewhere, aina?
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Eye'm wit ewe, Nads. Hope he takes his talents elsewhere, aina?
Abbsolootley. Wee don't need know Enn-Bee-Ay-level tallent at Emm-Ewe, nu?
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By the looks of a mid-first contract versus a mid-second from last year's draft, Justin could double to triple the size of his initial contract by waiting a year and moving up into the 1st round.
Players picked in the 40ish range averaged $1.2 to $1.5 million per year for their initial contract. Players 15 to 20 made between $3 and $4 million/year.
If NBA teams think he's got the talent of a 1st round pick with only some "mechanics" issues to coach him on, I would think they will do everything in their power to encourage him to leave this year because they can steal him for a 4-year contract for $5 to $6 million guaranteed.
If Justin thinks he's got the talent of a 1st round pick and can show that he's fixed those mechanics issues, he should stay because if he can move into the middle of the first round, maybe 15th to 20th, he'll increase his first contract value to $12 to $16 million.
The biggest reason to leave now is if he thinks he's peaked and won't improve his draft position next year. The next biggest is that you're risk-averse and are okay with potentially giving up half to 2/3 of your first few years of compensation in order to lock something in now.
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If NBA teams think he's got the talent of a 1st round pick with only some "mechanics" issues to coach him on, I would think they will do everything in their power to encourage him to leave this year because they can steal him for a 4-year contract for $5 to $6 million guaranteed.
This is 100% accurate. Mechanics can be fixed. NBA teams aren't skipping on a player they otherwise see as talented because their mechanics are off.
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By the looks of a mid-first contract versus a mid-second from last year's draft, Justin could double to triple the size of his initial contract by waiting a year and moving up into the 1st round.
Players picked in the 40ish range averaged $1.2 to $1.5 million per year for their initial contract. Players 15 to 20 made between $3 and $4 million/year.
If NBA teams think he's got the talent of a 1st round pick with only some "mechanics" issues to coach him on, I would think they will do everything in their power to encourage him to leave this year because they can steal him for a 4-year contract for $5 to $6 million guaranteed.
If Justin thinks he's got the talent of a 1st round pick and can show that he's fixed those mechanics issues, he should stay because if he can move into the middle of the first round, maybe 15th to 20th, he'll increase his first contract value to $12 to $16 million.
The biggest reason to leave now is if he thinks he's peaked and won't improve his draft position next year. The next biggest is that you're risk-averse and are okay with potentially giving up half to 2/3 of your first few years of compensation in order to lock something in now.
But are 2nd round contracts always 4 year contracts?
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Quote from: 4everwarriors on Today at 08:53:53 AM
Eye'm wit ewe, Nads. Hope he takes his talents elsewhere, aina?
Abbsolootley. Wee don't need know Enn-Bee-Ay-level tallent at Emm-Ewe, nu?
Is there a cognitive disorder going around on MUSCOOP?
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Quote from: 4everwarriors on Today at 08:53:53 AM
Eye'm wit ewe, Nads. Hope he takes his talents elsewhere, aina?
Is there a cognitive disorder going around on MUSCOOP?
Nu, hey
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Is there a cognitive disorder going around on MUSCOOP?
[/quote]
Not just Scoop. I think it is a lingering COVID symptom
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By the looks of a mid-first contract versus a mid-second from last year's draft, Justin could double to triple the size of his initial contract by waiting a year and moving up into the 1st round.
Players picked in the 40ish range averaged $1.2 to $1.5 million per year for their initial contract. Players 15 to 20 made between $3 and $4 million/year.
I
True, but the second contract is where guys make the big money. He would get to it a year sooner (if he does well). Would more than make up the difference.
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Justin went on Instagram Live just now and people in the comments were asking him if he was coming back to Marquette. He said yes.
Then Marquette commit Chase Ross was in the comments asking if he was going to run it back and he responded specifically to Chase saying yes.
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Was he messing around or serious?
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Was he messing around or serious?
Looked like he was at a restaurant with Kolek. I guess he could have been just saying things but he said it.
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Justin went on Instagram Live just now and people in the comments were asking him if he was coming back to Marquette. He said yes.
Then Marquette commit Chase Ross was in the comments asking if he was going to run it back and he responded specifically to Chase saying yes.
🔥🔥🔥
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🔥🔥🔥
Hoping he wasn't just messing with people, but who knows.
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Direct quote was "yeah, I'm staying at MU."
https://twitter.com/johnleuzzimu/status/1512858499583201284?s=21&t=8Vg2XxvEK7uOdmpXJ3go1g
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Weird thing to say, because he probably should still enter the draft process. But it has been trending this way after the last regular season game. It went from 1% to 10% to a 50%.
Ps. If he rescinds this, I will not be mad at all.
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Selfishly want him back as much as to help Marquette as much as seeing scoopers say he’s lazy and selfish
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Selfishly want him back as much as to help Marquette as much as seeing scoopers say he’s lazy and selfish
Honestly we would be better without him....
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Despite the fact that Lewis is more talented than any recruit or transfer Shaka could possibly bring in for the 2022-23 season, it's sad that there are Scoopers who actually wish he'd leave. We'd have won about 8 games without him last season.
Obviously, he wouldn't stay if Shaka didn't support him fully, so a vote against Justin is a vote against Shaka, too.
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I'll believe it when officially announced. And would still be shocked if he doesnt at least test the waters.
But ive long said him leaving is far from a done deal. And it isnt just seeing something like this.
He made no movement last year portal or draft eval.
He has taken his time since our season ended this year.
He had that line during the season about wanting to leave a "Wade, Butler, Crowder type legacy". That answer was completely unprovoked.
Whether he stays or goes. Its clearly never been an auto leave situation for him.
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Despite the fact that Lewis is more talented than any recruit or transfer Shaka could possibly bring in for the 2022-23 season, it's sad that there are Scoopers who actually wish he'd leave. We'd have won about 8 games without him last season.
Obviously, he wouldn't stay if Shaka didn't support him fully, so a vote against Justin is a vote against Shaka, too.
who actually wants him gone? 5% of the board max? who cares. delusional if anyone truly wants an nba talented jr to leave
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who actually wants him gone? 5% of the board max? who cares. delusional if anyone truly wants an nba talented jr to leave
No MU fan wants him gone
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Awesome news!
Bring on a serviceable big and 2022-23 has great promise!
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No MU fan wants him gone
Maybe one. Or maybe he's just being edgy.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63243.msg1440881#msg1440881
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who actually wants him gone? 5% of the board max? who cares. delusional if anyone truly wants an nba talented jr to leave
Doc Dribble has said it several times, and at least a couple others have echoed it.
5% is 100% too many.
No MU fan wants him gone
That's probably true. Doc cheered against Marquette regularly for years, celebrating recruiting misses with gusto. A few others cheered losses.
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I'll believe it when officially announced.
Unless that was a deep fake live hack of Justin's Instagram account, there is literally no more official source than Justin himself.
Could he change his mind? Yes. Can it possibly get more official than Justin saying "I'm staying at MU." No.
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Awesome news!
Bring on a serviceable big and 2022-23 has great promise!
Agree Awesome News!!
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Unless that was a deep fake live hack of Justin's Instagram account, there is literally no more official source than Justin himself.
Could he change his mind? Yes. Can it possibly get more official than Justin saying "I'm staying at MU." No.
I mean an yeah if you want to be technical it can get more official. Since as you clearly stated, there is nothing binding to him casually saying it on instgram live to random fans.
As I clearly stated, I have long had the belief theres a good chance he stays(even leaned that way for a long while) which has only been heightened by what I know about current recruiting.
Odd comment for you to try and highlight and disect though. Especially if we want to get into a game of technicalities.
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Unless that was a deep fake live hack of Justin's Instagram account, there is literally no more official source than Justin himself.
Could he change his mind? Yes. Can it possibly get more official than Justin saying "I'm staying at MU." No.
https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1512884264148295688
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1512884264148295688
Haha he was messing around. Regardless of what he ends up doing he should enter the draft to at least see.
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If Justin returns to Marquette he will win BE POY, assuming health.
He will be hungrier, he will be even more driven and Shaka will unleash him.
I would expect averages near 21&9, and I would expect that he moves into the top 20 in the draft after Coach Shaka and Marquette finish in the top 3 in the BE and either win the BET or make the Sweet 16.
There has been a lot said in if he should go or not, but I haven’t commented either way.
My stance is that he shouldn’t go to the draft this season, because if the above happens- which again I think is very possible/probable assuming health- Justin will move into the top 20 in the following years draft, which he would not be in this years.
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1512884264148295688
Like I said, he can change his mind. But Justin himself is the most official source.
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Like I said, he can change his mind. But Justin himself is the most official source.
And like I said, nothing is official
According to Justin himself.
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If Justin returns to Marquette he will win BE POY, assuming health.
He will be hungrier, he will be even more driven and Shaka will unleash him.
I would expect averages near 21&9, and I would expect that he moves into the top 20 in the draft after Coach Shaka and Marquette finish in the top 3 in the BE and either win the BET or make the Sweet 16.
There has been a lot said in if he should go or not, but I haven’t commented either way.
My stance is that he shouldn’t go to the draft this season, because if the above happens- which again I think is very possible/probable assuming health- Justin will move into the top 20 in the following years draft, which he would not be in this years.
If he comes back it's not to win awards. It'd be to improve his draft stock and nothing more.
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And like I said, nothing is official
According to Justin himself.
Can't trust any sources these days smh
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Like I said, he can change his mind. But Justin himself is the most official source.
The funniest part is that this video doesn't even show the part where he doubled down and told Chase Ross he was running it back.
A+ troll job by JLew.
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great news from a very bright young man
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1512884264148295688
💦💦💦
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If Justin returns to Marquette he will win BE POY, assuming health.
He should be the preseason POY for sure. Just look at how the awards shook out last season:
POY:
Gillespie - Graduated
First Team:
Lewis
Cole - Declared
Sanogo
Champagnie - Declared
Rhoden - Assumed to be be declaring
Second Team:
Hawkins - Graduated
Freeman-Liberty - Declared
Bynum
Watson - Graduated
Moore
Honorable Mention
Kalkbrenner
Morsell - Graduated
Alexander
Nunge
Sanogo is probably the only one who could challenge him for preseason POY and he's considering the draft too.
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If he comes back it's not to win awards. It'd be to improve his draft stock and nothing more.
Well ... I guess ... but how does he "improve his draft stock"?
He does it by improving his overall game, by becoming more efficient, by shooting better, by rebounding better, by becoming more of a defensive stopper, by handling the basketball better, etc.
If he does most of those things, he has an excellent chance to be BEPOY and to help us have a great season.
So they go hand-in-hand.
And even if being BEPOY isn't his stated goal, I'm guessing he'd be thrilled to get it, just as Jae was.
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We've established that Justin is the basketball version of Moon Knight. "That's not me."
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anoying he said hes coming back then tweets hes weighing the options. very flippant about the whole thing
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anoying he said hes coming back then tweets hes weighing the options. very flippant about the whole thing
Yes. Every 20 year old should be very serious all of the time. For the sake of the message board guys.
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Hope Lewis stays, obviously. Though I do think it’s funny to reply to a video of yourself saying something with “don’t believe everything you hear.”
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Hope Lewis stays, obviously. Though I do think it’s funny to reply to a video of yourself saying something with “don’t believe everything you hear.”
So funny
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Doc Dribble has said it several times, and at least a couple others have echoed it.
5% is 100% too many.
That's probably true. Doc cheered against Marquette regularly for years, celebrating recruiting misses with gusto. A few others cheered losses.
Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 87%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? I know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
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Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 85%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? TI know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
Oooohh. Tough old man!
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Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 85%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? TI know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
You were happy when the Hausers left and happy when recruits didn’t choose Marquette because you didn’t like the coach but sure, don’t question your fandom because you were alive when Marquette won a lot.
I don’t question your fandom, but come on man.
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Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 85%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? TI know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
🤡🤡🤡🤡
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Fluff,
I actually like your use of the clown emoji’s, but don’t over do it. Don’t expose yourself as a one trick pony. Mix in a donkey or something from time to time. We all know you have the time on your hands.
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Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 85%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? TI know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
Did you wet your depends?
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Fluff,
I actually like your use of the clown emoji’s, but don’t over do it. Don’t expose yourself as a one trick pony. Mix in a donkey or something from time to time. We all know you have the time on your hands.
Ooo. Goose is sassy tonight!!!
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Unless that was a deep fake live hack of Justin's Instagram account, there is literally no more official source than Justin himself.
Could he change his mind? Yes. Can it possibly get more official than Justin saying "I'm staying at MU." No.
Wow. Wonderful news.*
*if true
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Wow. Wonderful news.*
*if true
We don't need him anyway, he's lazy and uninterested...
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And like I said, nothing is official
According to Justin himself.
Agreed. But there is something positive here.
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We don't need him anyway, he's lazy and uninterested...
Would you like some butter with your troll?
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Would you like some butter with your troll?
Don't believe everything you read.
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Would you like some butter with your troll?
Go back to the Vodka thing, let me be...
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Since we can't peddle his ass, I'm perfectly good with him leaving. Next man up.
Too bad, Mike, that you had the misfortune of attending MU when basketball was in a down cycle. For those of us who lived the Warrior glory years on a daily basis, it was the closet thing to heaven on earth. For the record, during my eight years at Marquette, men's basketball won 205 games and lost only 30 or a winning percentage of 85%. And, you may recall reading something about an 81 game home winning streak too.
Lastly, do you suffer from "little man's syndrome"? I know it makes you feeling important to criticize and belittle others, often with hyperbole, but if you only take one thing from this board over the years, do not underestimate my fandom...ever.
BTW, if these words are too big or incomprehensible to you, I'll be happy to translate, hey?
I don’t question your fandom of Al McGuire and the 1977 Warriors at all.
Thankfully, Shaka Smart cares about the current Marquette team, and he wants Justin Lewis to be a part of it. Like anyone with any basketball knowledge knows, Lewis returning would be big for Shaka to continue moving our program in the right direction. Any Marquette fan would want that.
Here’s hoping Lewis is anywhere near as valuable to the 2022-23 MU team as the last guy whose ass you wanted peddled was to the 2020-21 Bucks.
And given how you constantly “criticize and belittle others” - I mean, rocky ran an entire thread of your critical and belittling comments - I’ll just leave that part of your silliness alone, nu?
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It’s important to note from last years results that Shaka is very big on keeping things close to the vest and making a big splash at once.
There were pretty much 0 rumors to be had on nearly all the transfers to MU last year and they were mostly announced together. Also, there were several times in the “get lost in the fight” mantra where Shaka shunned getting caught up in social media versus concentrating on the task at hand. Seems obvious that he likes keeping things in house until the right time.
That leads me to believe that Justin is indeed returning to MU. He was supposed to keep it in house until MU announced it all together with the incoming transfers, but kids will be kids.
He says he’s still considering his options, but my guess is that he will be returning to MU and it will be announced with a few very good transfers- I’ll predict Ramey and Washington.
If that happens, MU will be in a very nice position for next season.
Leggo
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It’s important to note from last years results that Shaka is very big on keeping things close to the best and making a big splash at once.
There were pretty much 0 rumors to be had on nearly all the transfer to MU last year and they were mostly announced together. Also, there were several time in the “get lost in the fight” mantra where Shaka shunned getting caught up in social media versus the task at hand. Seems obvious that he likes keeping things in house until the right time.
That leads me to believe that Justin is indeed returning to MU. He was supposed to keep it in house until MU announced it all together with the incoming transfers, but kids will be kids.
He says he’s still considering his options, but my guess is that he will be returning to MU and it will be announced with a few very good transfers- I’ll predict Ramey and Washington.
If that happens, MU will be in a very nice position for next season.
Leggo
This scenario may very well be in play Dr. V. If we hit the trifecta MU hoops will be formidable with the opportunity to be dangerous.
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NM Wrong thread
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People take the words of 18-22 year old college kids on social media way too seriously. He threw out an answer with very little thought knowing what the person who asked it wanted to hear on social media and didn’t think it’d turn into some formal official statement on his status. This isn’t some conspiracy that he ruined Shaka’s timeline and he was told to walk it back.
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People take the words of 18-22 year old college kids on social media way too seriously. He threw out an answer with very little thought knowing what the person who asked it wanted to hear on social media and didn’t think it’d turn into some formal official statement on his status. This isn’t some conspiracy that he ruined Shaka’s timeline and he was told to walk it back.
You sure about that?
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. I also don’t think he was told to walk anything back.
I just think he knew to walk it back.
It’s the new culture.
Maybe I’m wrong, but maybe I’d now be very surprised if JLew doesn’t return
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NM Wrong thread
There is never a wrong thread on Scoop
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With Justin returning, MU will be a better team than if he didn't.
Minus Justin, no previous win over Wisconsin and Villanova among probably many others.
We are fortunate he wanted to stay with the changing of the coaching guards.
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My only issue with college basketball today is decisions are dragged out a long time and that makes recruiting extremely difficult, especially for a program like MU that is in a retooling/rebuild of the program. As for Justin, I have very mixed emotions on him, but if he is coming back, I know it makes next year look much more promising. If he is coming back, I think that is great reflection on the overall state of the program because he definitely had a lot of options outside of turning pro.
I said early this year we would remember the guys from this year's team and if Lewis is back next year, he will be remembered for being the anchor of what Shaka is trying to accomplish. Fill in a couple of needed holes and next year could be looking pretty damn good. Lewis makes next year better, and I hope he is back. If not, it really is next man up and hit the portal hard to replace him.
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My only issue with college basketball today is decisions are dragged out a long time and that makes recruiting extremely difficult, especially for a program like MU that is in a retooling/rebuild of the program. As for Justin, I have very mixed emotions on him, but if he is coming back, I know it makes next year look much more promising. If he is coming back, I think that is great reflection on the overall state of the program because he definitely had a lot of options outside of turning pro.
I said early this year we would remember the guys from this year's team and if Lewis is back next year, he will be remembered for being the anchor of what Shaka is trying to accomplish. Fill in a couple of needed holes and next year could be looking pretty damn good. Lewis makes next year better, and I hope he is back. If not, it really is next man up and hit the portal hard to replace him.
Goose-
Your sensible posts have no place here at Scoop
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My only issue with college basketball today is decisions are dragged out a long time and that makes recruiting extremely difficult, especially for a program like MU that is in a retooling/rebuild of the program. As for Justin, I have very mixed emotions on him, but if he is coming back, I know it makes next year look much more promising. If he is coming back, I think that is great reflection on the overall state of the program because he definitely had a lot of options outside of turning pro.
I said early this year we would remember the guys from this year's team and if Lewis is back next year, he will be remembered for being the anchor of what Shaka is trying to accomplish. Fill in a couple of needed holes and next year could be looking pretty damn good. Lewis makes next year better, and I hope he is back. If not, it really is next man up and hit the portal hard to replace him.
Perfectly stated, Goose.
Today's coaches have to be very nimble, and I think we have one who will do better under this landscape than most others will. If I'm wrong about that, Shaka won't last long, but I think (hope!) I'm right about it.
As you say, we obviously are a better team with one of the top 2-3 players in the Big East available to play 35 mpg. Those who say otherwise either don't know basketball, don't want Marquette to win, or both.
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Marquette with Justin Lewis back will win a bunch of games early then lose a bunch late and flame out in Rd 1 of the Tourney.
Marquette without Justin Lewis will win a few less games early then lose a bunch late, and miss the tourney.
So I guess it’s slightly better if he comes back but is it that important that anyone should really care? There’s not a lot to get enthusiastic about either way next year.
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Marquette with Justin Lewis back will win a bunch of games early then lose a bunch late and flame out in Rd 1 of the Tourney.
Marquette without Justin Lewis will win a few less games early then lose a bunch late, and miss the tourney.
So I guess it’s slightly better if he comes back but is it that important that anyone should really care? There’s not a lot to get enthusiastic about either way next year.
COLEslaw
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Marquette with Justin Lewis back will win a bunch of games early then lose a bunch late and flame out in Rd 1 of the Tourney.
Marquette without Justin Lewis will win a few less games early then lose a bunch late, and miss the tourney.
So I guess it’s slightly better if he comes back but is it that important that anyone should really care? There’s not a lot to get enthusiastic about either way next year.
This thread is about as pessimistic as you can get for the upcoming season. If Lewis comes back and Shaka adds a few key transfers, we could possibly land in the Top 25 to start the year.
Shaka made the tournament in his first year. Yes, the team fizzled out, but if I told anyone prior to last year's season where we would end up in the Big East standings, beat Nova twice, and make finally make NCAA's, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with year 1 results. The results may have reminded you of the past, but the pattern of this coach versus other's timeline is different.
I don't think it is fair to compare last year's Marquette team's development to prior teams. The results may have been the same to some degree, but this is a different coach, different culture, and an entirely different path to consistently being a Big East respective contender year-in and year-out. The big difference is that this was Shaka's first year while the results of other teams represented a deep tenure of others such as Wojo's.
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This thread is about as pessimistic as you can get for the upcoming season. If Lewis comes back and Shaka adds a few key transfers, we could possibly land in the Top 25 to start the year.
Shaka made the tournament in his first year. Yes, the team fizzled out, but if I told anyone prior to last year's season where we would end up in the Big East standings, beat Nova twice, and make finally make NCAA's, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with year 1 results. The results may have reminded you of the past, but the pattern of this coach versus other's timeline is different.
I don't think it is fair to compare last year's Marquette team's development to prior teams. The results may have been the same to some degree, but this is a different coach, different culture, and an entirely different path to consistently being a Big East respective contender year-in and year-out. The big difference is that this was Shaka's first year while the results of other teams represented a deep tenure of others such as Wojo's.
Great points. If these things fall into place MU will be quite formidable. I also think people are forgetting that many of our returning players will be improved and hungry.
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More like the Turd in Turd COLEslaw
COLEslaw
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This thread is about as pessimistic as you can get for the upcoming season. If Lewis comes back and Shaka adds a few key transfers, we could possibly land in the Top 25 to start the year.
Shaka made the tournament in his first year. Yes, the team fizzled out, but if I told anyone prior to last year's season where we would end up in the Big East standings, beat Nova twice, and make finally make NCAA's, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with year 1 results. The results may have reminded you of the past, but the pattern of this coach versus other's timeline is different.
I don't think it is fair to compare last year's Marquette team's development to prior teams. The results may have been the same to some degree, but this is a different coach, different culture, and an entirely different path to consistently being a Big East respective contender year-in and year-out. The big difference is that this was Shaka's first year while the results of other teams represented a deep tenure of others such as Wojo's.
Great points but they are lost on Farley. He is merely a troll.
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Marquette with Justin Lewis back will win a bunch of games early then lose a bunch late and flame out in Rd 1 of the Tourney.
Marquette without Justin Lewis will win a few less games early then lose a bunch late, and miss the tourney.
So I guess it’s slightly better if he comes back but is it that important that anyone should really care? There’s not a lot to get enthusiastic about either way next year.
You don't care. You told us that. You don't care so much that you constantly feel the need to post douchy opinions, that's how much you don't care.
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This thread is about as pessimistic as you can get for the upcoming season. If Lewis comes back and Shaka adds a few key transfers, we could possibly land in the Top 25 to start the year.
Shaka made the tournament in his first year. Yes, the team fizzled out, but if I told anyone prior to last year's season where we would end up in the Big East standings, beat Nova twice, and make finally make NCAA's, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with year 1 results. The results may have reminded you of the past, but the pattern of this coach versus other's timeline is different.
I don't think it is fair to compare last year's Marquette team's development to prior teams. The results may have been the same to some degree, but this is a different coach, different culture, and an entirely different path to consistently being a Big East respective contender year-in and year-out. The big difference is that this was Shaka's first year while the results of other teams represented a deep tenure of others such as Wojo's.
Dont feed the troll
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+1,000,000 put him on IGNORE ! ! ! He will go away ! ! ! 8-)
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som ppl cant resist replying to em
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OffTheGlass is a inconsistent poster so he probably isn’t aware.
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+1,000,000 put him on IGNORE ! ! ! He will go away ! ! ! 8-)
Not as long as even one person replies to him. Those kind of people don’t have friends, so they troll.
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I apologize…..can someone provide ignore button instructions. Thank you
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Not the easiest to find.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;u=325
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I apologize…..can someone provide ignore button instructions. Thank you
Go into your own profile, then select 'Modify profile' then 'Buddies/Ignore list'. Click on 'edit ignore list' then type in the name of the person to ignore.
Et voila...he gowne! (Until someone quotes a post.)
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Go into your own profile, then select 'Modify profile' then 'Buddies/Ignore list'. Click on 'edit ignore list' then type in the name of the person to ignore.
Et voila...he gowne! (Until someone quotes a post.)
Wokies and their cancel culture
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Go into your own profile, then select 'Modify profile' then 'Buddies/Ignore list'. Click on 'edit ignore list' then type in the name of the person to ignore.
Et voila...he gowne! (Until someone quotes a post.)
Done…..thank you.
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If that is the bar Farley is setting for the team next year, then he will be in heaven next year when the team far exceeds that.
Hang in there Farley! MU BB must seem extremely dark for you now.
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Making the ignore function a little more prominent would be a nice update
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A shared "ignore list" would be better...
Making the ignore function a little more prominent would be a nice update
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It’s so Scoop to ignore the truth. The land of “it will be different next year.” 😂😂😂
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No one knows until next year is here.
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I like to eat my own farts.
We know.
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I have the intellect of a four year old.
We know.
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Justin has signed with an agent. Best of luck!
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1514000819636604933?s=21&t=zCJxNAmcMky4St1BGWjVow
Here is the official news
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Justin has signed with an agent. Best of luck!
He will maintain his eligibility.
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He will maintain his eligibility.
So you can sign with an agent now and still remain eligible? If so this makes sense for someone in his position
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So you can sign with an agent now and still remain eligible? If so this makes sense for someone in his position
No idea, but it sure seems that way. Also if it is possible it sure seems to be worded in a way that he wouldn't be back at Marquette regardless. Weird wording and confusing process but best of luck!
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So you can sign with an agent now and still remain eligible? If so this makes sense for someone in his position
Yes, but I believe he’s gone either way and Marquette will act accordingly
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idk how u guys have any optmism we will be the same or better next year. is this dudes gone were gonna be a notch or two lower next year. unless home run transfers.
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idk how u guys have any optmism we will be the same or better next year. is this dudes gone were gonna be a notch or two lower next year. unless home run transfers.
The same reason we made the tournament in a year where we were picked 9th in the league preseason and most of us agreed.
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The same reason we made the tournament in a year where we were picked 9th in the league preseason and most of us agreed.
yeah whatever. guess if u think its realistic for som1 to step up to justins lvl next yr sure. i dont see it. it wont happen every year
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yeah whatever. guess if u think its realistic for som1 to step up to justins lvl next yr sure. i dont see it. it wont happen every year
How many people thought Justin was going to turn into a legitimate BE POY candidate before last season started?
Impact transfers and internal improvements are needed. We’ll see what happens.
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How many people thought Justin was going to turn into a legitimate BE POY candidate before last season started?
Impact transfers and internal improvements are needed. We’ll see what happens.
no one. thats the point. it aint happening again next year.
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no one. thats the point. it aint happening again next year.
I didn’t say it had to happen for Marquette to be good again.
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So you can sign with an agent now and still remain eligible? If so this makes sense for someone in his position
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2021-10-13/ncaa-certified-agents-helping-college-athletes-test-nba-draft-waters#:~:text=After%20an%20NCAA%20player%20fills,he%20forfeits%20his%20college%20eligibility.
After an NCAA player fills out the application for feedback from the NBA, he can begin working with an NCAA-certified agent. If a player chooses to sign with an agent not certified by the NCAA, he forfeits his college eligibility.
The way Justin's statement was worded, it would seem he signed with an NCAA-certified agent.
This was the only intelligent thing for Justin to do: test the waters, see what NBA people are saying, and then make an informed decision. It's nice that an athlete now can hire an agent to help navigate the waters.
Selfishly, as a Marquette fan who has enjoyed watching him play and who thinks he is a class act, I hope he sticks around for another year. But really, all I want for Justin is for him to have a successful, satisfying life. I wish him good fortune, no matter what he decides to do.
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Good luck Justin!
I would love for him to return, but won't hold my breath.
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Fantastic News for Justin . Also good news for MU.
Hopefully Justin will be invited to the NBA Draft Combine and then receive the encouragement that he will be a First round, Second round or Free Agent with a Two Way. MU would be able to point to another player sent to The NBA.
Also by Justin retaining his eligibility , in using an NCAA certified agent, MU will have the opportunity to recruit Justin back in the event things don't work out so well.
Wishing Justin all the best success in the draft process
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Adios...next man up, aina?
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I don't know what to think but clearly all options have to be on the table for us.
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Look, what I think he is signaling is that if he gets a favorable review by NBA scouts, he’s gone. Period.
If his reviews are not especially good, then maybe he stays. Maybe he transfers. Only Justin really knows for sure.
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I wish him all the luck and I’m pulling for him. If it doesn’t work out I will be thrilled to have him back on the team.
He’s a warrior.
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I wish him all the luck and I’m pulling for him. If it doesn’t work out I will be thrilled to have him back on the team.
He’s a warrior.
He said hes signing with an agent…..so he wont be coming back.
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He said hes signing with an agent…..so he wont be coming back.
Did you ignore the rest of this thread? He may not be coming back but it has nothing to do with signing with an agent.
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He said hes signing with an agent…..so he wont be coming back.
Players can now sign with an agent (as long as they're certified) and come back.
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Players can now sign with an agent (as long as they're certified) and come back.
Gotcha—thanks
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Did you ignore the rest of this thread?
I stopped when Brew said Justin himself said he was coming back.
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No surprise. Not great news for the team's chances next year. Always nice to have players representing MU in the league but Shaka is going to have to work some magic with transfers again.
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Vander Blue called and said the weather is lovely this time of year in Uruguay.
I wish him all the best but who is advising these guys?
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Vander Blue called and said the weather is lovely this time of year in Uruguay.
I wish him all the best but who is advising these guys?
Very different from Vander, he is retaining eligibility.
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https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2021-10-13/ncaa-certified-agents-helping-college-athletes-test-nba-draft-waters#:~:text=After%20an%20NCAA%20player%20fills,he%20forfeits%20his%20college%20eligibility.
After an NCAA player fills out the application for feedback from the NBA, he can begin working with an NCAA-certified agent. If a player chooses to sign with an agent not certified by the NCAA, he forfeits his college eligibility.
The way Justin's statement was worded, it would seem he signed with an NCAA-certified agent.
This was the only intelligent thing for Justin to do: test the waters, see what NBA people are saying, and then make an informed decision. It's nice that an athlete now can hire an agent to help navigate the waters.
Selfishly, as a Marquette fan who has enjoyed watching him play and who thinks he is a class act, I hope he sticks around for another year. But really, all I want for Justin is for him to have a successful, satisfying life. I wish him good fortune, no matter what he decides to do.
82, I’m usually down with you. But this time, cut the altruistic bs. We want MU to be great, right? We want MU to kick A, right?
…let’s just hope Justin has a satisfying, successful life? Really? Really? If Lewis goes, it’s another year of “I hope we’re good” or “in Shaka we trust”. Another 9-seed, maybe. Big maybe. I get where Farley comes from. I do. This hope & prayer MU hoops just gets old.
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I get where Farley comes from. I do.
We all do….its called Mifflin and State.
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Very different from Vander, he is retaining eligibility.
Yeah, thats a nice change in the rules - but Justin is going to be, at best, a mid to late 2nd rounder. But someone will blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him he can be the next JTA and he'll go with nothing but a two-way contract in hand.
Justin's best shot at a meaningful and sustained NBA career is to come back and kill it for another year by grabbing BE POY and a few NCAA wins. I get he could technically still do that, but it seems once these guys get a sniff of the NBA they're gone.
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82, I’m usually down with you. But this time, cut the altruistic bs. We want MU to be great, right? We want MU to kick A, right?
…let’s just hope Justin has a satisfying, successful life? Really? Really? If Lewis goes, it’s another year of “I hope we’re good” or “in Shaka we trust”. Another 9-seed, maybe. Big maybe. I get where Farley comes from. I do. This hope & prayer MU hoops just gets old.
Long-term, if he gets drafted, it could be a benefit to the program. I have to think Shaka is already using Justin’s improvement in recruiting. If he can say in one year, he went from solid freshman to NBA draft pick under my coaching, that’s a solid story.
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Yeah, thats a nice change in the rules - but Justin is going to be, at best, a mid to late 2nd rounder. But someone will blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him he can be the next JTA and he'll go with nothing but a two-way contract in hand.
Justin's best shot at a meaningful and sustained NBA career is to come back and kill it for another year by grabbing BE POY and a few NCAA wins. I get he could technically still do that, but it seems once these guys get a sniff of the NBA they're gone.
Which false narrative are you pitching here:
1. NBA teams care about conference awards and tournament wins when evaluating players.
2. There's a link between NBA success and conference awards and tournament wins.
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Yeah, thats a nice change in the rules - but Justin is going to be, at best, a mid to late 2nd rounder. But someone will blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him he can be the next JTA and he'll go with nothing but a two-way contract in hand.
Justin's best shot at a meaningful and sustained NBA career is to come back and kill it for another year by grabbing BE POY and a few NCAA wins. I get he could technically still do that, but it seems once these guys get a sniff of the NBA they're gone.
Mumble jumble
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Yeah, thats a nice change in the rules - but Justin is going to be, at best, a mid to late 2nd rounder. But someone will blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him he can be the next JTA and he'll go with nothing but a two-way contract in hand.
Justin's best shot at a meaningful and sustained NBA career is to come back and kill it for another year by grabbing BE POY and a few NCAA wins. I get he could technically still do that, but it seems once these guys get a sniff of the NBA they're gone.
100%
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Which false narrative are you pitching here:
1. NBA teams care about conference awards and tournament wins when evaluating players.
2. There's a link between NBA success and conference awards and tournament wins.
They go hand in hand- it's no coincidence Justin was showing up on most boards as late 1st round when we were ranked 20th and winning 8/9 and now is lucky to be in the back end of the 2nd round.
Us winning was indicative of Justin playing well which also had more eyeballs on us both of which raised his stock.
Or are you peddling the false narrative that NBA scouts are computers that recruit solely on some kind if complete objective 'potential' metric that only they have access to?
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I think if he comes back to school it's a real possibility it's not with Marquette.
We gotta get over the pouting when someone leaves. We are Marquette, run by Shaka Smart, and there is always a page to be turned with good things ahead.
You're in a bad spot if you think one player is the reason behind all the success. It's a good thing when culture carries over to the next season regardless of who is lacing 'em up. I'm rolling with whoever's on our side.
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Oh, don't go Justin! We're chit without you. Maybe you'll reach your senses and come back...pretty please.
He's kissed off MU. Y'all got reading comprehension issues? He's kicked Marquette to da curb. He gowne and adios, aina?
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They go hand in hand- it's no coincidence Justin was showing up on most boards as late 1st round when we were ranked 20th and winning 8/9 and now is lucky to be in the back end of the 2nd round.
Us winning was indicative of Justin playing well which also had more eyeballs on us both of which raised his stock.
Or are you peddling the false narrative that NBA scouts are computers that recruit solely on some kind if complete objective 'potential' metric that only they have access to?
He wasn’t moving up draft boards because more people were watching him or because the team was playing better. He was moving up draft boards cause he was playing well - which impacted team performance. He moved back down when defenses adjusted to him - which again affected the team.
You have the cause and effect mixed up.
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Oh, don't go Justin! We're chit without you. Maybe you'll reach your senses and come back...pretty please.
He's kissed off MU. Y'all got reading comprehension issues? He's kicked Marquette to da curb. He gowne and adios, aina?
We can only hope Shaka replaces him with a kid who played 4 mpg for a team Marquette beat last season.
That's a winning formula.
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They go hand in hand- it's no coincidence Justin was showing up on most boards as late 1st round when we were ranked 20th and winning 8/9 and now is lucky to be in the back end of the 2nd round.
Us winning was indicative of Justin playing well which also had more eyeballs on us both of which raised his stock.
Or are you peddling the false narrative that NBA scouts are computers that recruit solely on some kind if complete objective 'potential' metric that only they have access to?
The last six #1 overall picks won a combined total of four NCAA tournament games (three by Zion), and three of them never even played a tournament game.
That tells you how much NBA teams care.
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We can only hope Shaka replaces him with a kid who played 4 mpg for a team Marquette beat last season.
That's a winning formula.
Can’t white figure out the difference between the two kids myself
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OK, lets deal with this one.
We're going to lose players. Whether Justin Lewis comes back or not, over time, folks Coach Shaka recruited either will be so good they go pro or won't fit in our system and move on. See: Garcia, Dawson or Carton, DJ. That' the facts of life as they exist today in college basketball.
Second, the quality of player that comes to Marquette is directly proportional to how well Coach Shaka "coaches the team up," or how many of our players make the NBA. In that vein this is one of the successes of 2021-2022. We excelled way beyond expectations in no small measure because Coach Shaka coached up. If Mr. Lewis goes pro, he went from being a benchwarmer under Coach Wojo to a star in the Big East and an NBA player (hopefully).
My opinion (again) is Mr. Lewis is a smart young man and he'll do what's best for him and his family. We've lost great stars early over the years (Jim Chones, Larry McNeill, Maurice Lucas, Glenn Rivers, Dwyane Wade, Vander Blue all come to mind) and we've survived. You have to adjust and if Coach Shaka is as good as we think he his, Coach will adjust and find the right folks to lead us to victory.
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OK, lets deal with this one.
We're going to lose players. Whether Justin Lewis comes back or not, over time, folks Coach Shaka recruited either will be so good they go pro or won't fit in our system and move on. See: Garcia, Dawson or Carton, DJ. That' the facts of life as they exist today in college basketball.
Second, the quality of player that comes to Marquette is directly proportional to how well Coach Shaka "coaches the team up," or how many of our players make the NBA. In that vein this is one of the successes of 2021-2022. We excelled way beyond expectations in no small measure because Coach Shaka coached up. If Mr. Lewis goes pro, he went from being a benchwarmer under Coach Wojo to a star in the Big East and an NBA player (hopefully).
My opinion (again) is Mr. Lewis is a smart young man and he'll do what's best for him and his family. We've lost great stars early over the years (Jim Chones, Larry McNeill, Maurice Lucas, Glenn Rivers, Dwyane Wade, Vander Blue all come to mind) and we've survived. You have to adjust and if Coach Shaka is as good as we think he his, Coach will adjust and find the right folks to lead us to victory.
I just don’t want white kids from Wisconsin to transfer or leave early. Those are my kind of student athletes
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I just don’t want white kids from Wisconsin to transfer or leave early. Those are my kind of student athletes
Peoples Exhibit #1: Henry Ellenson He was one of the most selfish college basketball players I've ever seen.
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I agree that it makes sense for Justin to explore all his options.
I don't like what the uncertainty about a possible return does for the piecing together a roster for next year. With only a couple of slots and clear needs, Shaka's hands are a bit tied waiting for JL's decision. Of course, he may already know if JL is unlikely come back, and is recruiting accordingly. Or not.
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82, I’m usually down with you. But this time, cut the altruistic bs. We want MU to be great, right? We want MU to kick A, right?
…let’s just hope Justin has a satisfying, successful life? Really? Really? If Lewis goes, it’s another year of “I hope we’re good” or “in Shaka we trust”. Another 9-seed, maybe. Big maybe. I get where Farley comes from. I do. This hope & prayer MU hoops just gets old.
It wasn't bs. I truly care about the athletes. Really. Really. It's why I am for free agency and NIL, and why I like that athletes can hire NCAA-approved agents to help them through the process Justin is going through right now.
We have no control over the decisions that are made. What you or I say on Scoop doesn't affect our team one iota.
And apparently you missed the part where I said that, selfishly, I hope he stays.
Reading that statement of his, though, I'd bet he isn't staying. So I could either get all wound up about it like you have, or I could thank him for playing so well last season - we win maybe 9 games without him - and wish him great success. I choose the latter.
Enjoy your time in Mrs. F's basement. The tuna salad on white bread will be right down.
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I agree that it makes sense for Justin to explore all his options.
I don't like what the uncertainty about a possible return does for the piecing together a roster for next year. With only a couple of slots and clear needs, Shaka's hands are a bit tied waiting for JL's decision. Of course, he may already know if JL is unlikely come back, and is recruiting accordingly. Or not.
I think similarly Shaka has to explore all his options. It makes for a more difficult process, but if Justin does get feedback that keeps him here another year, that's not a player you say "sorry, your scholarship is gone" to as you're talking about the likely preseason BEPOY and potential All-American (because that's by default what BEPOY typically means).
Address the biggest immediate need, which is having someone to rotate with Oso, then figure out the last scholarship going forward.
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82, I’m usually down with you. But this time, cut the altruistic bs. We want MU to be great, right? We want MU to kick A, right?
…let’s just hope Justin has a satisfying, successful life? Really? Really? If Lewis goes, it’s another year of “I hope we’re good” or “in Shaka we trust”. Another 9-seed, maybe. Big maybe. I get where Farley comes from. I do. This hope & prayer MU hoops just gets old.
Do you not want Justin to have a satisfying, successful life? Do you want him to potentially have a less satisfying and successful life for the sake of your entertainment?
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Oh, won't somebody please think of the coaches!
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I agree that it makes sense for Justin to explore all his options.
I don't like what the uncertainty about a possible return does for the piecing together a roster for next year. With only a couple of slots and clear needs, Shaka's hands are a bit tied waiting for JL's decision. Of course, he may already know if JL is unlikely come back, and is recruiting accordingly. Or not.
Shaka is just one of dozens and dozens of coaches dealing with stuff like this. That's why they get paid a bazillion times more than the university president, to figure out how to negotiate college basketball's new landscape and build winning teams.
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Shaka is just one of dozens and dozens of coaches dealing with stuff like this. That's why they get paid a bazillion times more than the university president, to figure out how to negotiate college basketball's new landscape and build winning teams.
If you look at this roster, I do think Shaka is trying to proactively address this, but the difficult part is putting it together on the fly while also trying to build a transfer-resistant framework in the future. We look at this roster and think "where's the scoring, where's the second big for Oso" when what they are really trying to do is set us up so that those questions are already answered by the current roster in the coming years. When you have a scorer in every class, when you have 2-3 point guards and 2-3 bigs spread among classes so you can deal with a transfer out while still pursuing additional players, then you don't have to worry about this as much. The problem is maintaining a NCAA-caliber roster while waiting for those guys to develop.
That said, I'm bullish on O-Max making a Justin-type jump next year and at least one of Joplin/Kam becoming a more reliable scoring option. The tools are already here, they just haven't shown more than flashes to this point.
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Oh, don't go Justin! We're chit without you. Maybe you'll reach your senses and come back...pretty please.
He's kissed off MU. Y'all got reading comprehension issues? He's kicked Marquette to da curb. He gowne and adios, aina?
So the meat eaters go on and on about Sam Hauser and what a loss he was...you know, the second team all Big East guy...when he transferred to another school. Labelled "one of my favorite post-Al players!" ::) ::) ::)
Yet potentially losing a guy who was a first team all Big East who would be in the running to be BEPOY to the NBA is met with mocking when it is suggested that he will be missed.
So very strange.
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Rico
I am not sure what Sam Hauser being one of my post Al favorite players has to do with Lewis deciding to leave, but I guess you do. As I said over the weekend, I was hoping Lewis would be back for next season and I am disappointed he is not coming back. That said, I wish Lewis good luck and time to look forward for the program. Shaka has a big hole to fill, but selling a big hole should be easier task than selling a role player position.
I think Lewis will be missed, but maybe not to the extent you believe he be missed. I am fairly certain the news did not catch Shaka by surprise and he has been recruiting transfers accordingly. If on paper Shaka has not added a couple of impact transfers in a month I will be concerned, but not today.
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Rico
I am not sure what Sam Hauser being one of my post Al favorite players has to do with Lewis deciding to leave, but I guess you do. As I said over the weekend, I was hoping Lewis would be back for next season and I am disappointed he is not coming back. That said, I wish Lewis good luck and time to look forward for the program. Shaka has a big hole to fill, but selling a big hole should be easier task than selling a role player position.
I think Lewis will be missed, but maybe not to the extent you believe he be missed. I am fairly certain the news did not catch Shaka by surprise and he has been recruiting transfers accordingly. If on paper Shaka has not added a couple of impact transfers in a month I will be concerned, but not today.
I have no illusions about the staff being caught off-guard, nor do I worry about them filling his position. It’s modern-day college basketball.
At the same time, selfishly, I wanted Justin back and think Marquette would be better with him being back. All of these things are true.
Justin has been weirdly and unfairly criticized here by some who didn’t appreciate how important he was to this team getting back to the tournament
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Rico
I am not sure what Sam Hauser being one of my post Al favorite players has to do with Lewis deciding to leave, but I guess you do. As I said over the weekend, I was hoping Lewis would be back for next season and I am disappointed he is not coming back. That said, I wish Lewis good luck and time to look forward for the program. Shaka has a big hole to fill, but selling a big hole should be easier task than selling a role player position.
I think Lewis will be missed, but maybe not to the extent you believe he be missed. I am fairly certain the news did not catch Shaka by surprise and he has been recruiting transfers accordingly. If on paper Shaka has not added a couple of impact transfers in a month I will be concerned, but not today.
Feels a lot like Warren Washington + Courtney Ramey is the "replace justin" plan. O-Max will take a step and be better next year. I expect the same from Joplin--he showed a lot of nice flashes and an additional year of conditioning will go a long way to his scoring, defense and endurance.
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Jake
I liked Lewis, did not love him. When he was good, he was very good, but his bad bothered me. It is definitely a loss and counting on Shaka to be successful in the portal. I think selling a top transfer that he is filling Justin's shoes should be an easy sell to anyone trying to showcase themselves for the next level. As for new guys coming in, I liked the guys he brought in this year and expect an even higher grade of transfers to be brought in for next season.
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Jake
I liked Lewis, did not love him. When he was good, he was very good, but his bad bothered me. It is definitely a loss and counting on Shaka to be successful in the portal. I think selling a top transfer that he is filling Justin's shoes should be an easy sell to anyone trying to showcase themselves for the next level. As for new guys coming in, I liked the guys he brought in this year and expect an even higher grade of transfers to be brought in for next season.
Since you've been a Marquette fan, Goose, has every player's "bad" bothered you? If not, what about Justin's "bad" was more bothersome than, say, Sam Hauser's bad or Steve Novak's bad or Damon Key's bad or Glenn Rivers' bad or Gary Rosenberger's bad?
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He wasn’t moving up draft boards because more people were watching him or because the team was playing better. He was moving up draft boards cause he was playing well - which impacted team performance. He moved back down when defenses adjusted to him - which again affected the team.
You have the cause and effect mixed up.
That's exactly what I was saying....
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It wasn't bs. I truly care about the athletes. Really. Really. It's why I am for free agency and NIL, and why I like that athletes can hire NCAA-approved agents to help them through the process Justin is going through right now.
We have no control over the decisions that are made. What you or I say on Scoop doesn't affect our team one iota.
And apparently you missed the part where I said that, selfishly, I hope he stays.
Reading that statement of his, though, I'd bet he isn't staying. So I could either get all wound up about it like you have, or I could thank him for playing so well last season - we win maybe 9 games without him - and wish him great success. I choose the latter.
Enjoy your time in Mrs. F's basement. The tuna salad on white bread will be right down.
toasted? With lettuce and slice of tomato? Thank you Mrs F.
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Do you not want Justin to have a satisfying, successful life? Do you want him to potentially have a less satisfying and successful life for the sake of your entertainment?
Mrs F will make you a sandwich. White or wheat? Toasted?
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So the meat eaters go on and on about Sam Hauser and what a loss he was...
Yet potentially losing a guy who was a first team all Big East who would be in the running to be BEPOY to the NBA is met with mocking when it is suggested that he will be missed.
So very strange.
(https://c.tenor.com/JCW-4lIvKhUAAAAC/bigbird-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-others.gif)
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Feels a lot like Warren Washington + Courtney Ramey is the "replace justin" plan. O-Max will take a step and be better next year. I expect the same from Joplin--he showed a lot of nice flashes and an additional year of conditioning will go a long way to his scoring, defense and endurance.
Ramey would be great to add.
I think Wrightsil seems like a pretty good Justin replacement on the roster.
To add Washington and Ramey they'd need a spot to open up.
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82
Are you serious? The biggest issue for me on Lewis would be that there was a very large gap between his really good and really bad games which frustrated me. There are plenty of guys that frustrated me with their bad play over the years and all were good players that when they played poorly it stood out.
Also, note that I should have said frustrated me, not bothered me.
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Mrs F will make you a sandwich. White or wheat? Toasted?
Guy who pretends to be serious get's suddenly unserious when asked questions.
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I thought F36 lived in a van down by the river.
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Count me in the camp of those who have long given up riding the peaks and valleys of basketball kids coming or going from my alma mater. I can't control their choices and life happens. Someone's front door is another's backdoor. Next man up, hey?
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82
Are you serious? The biggest issue for me on Lewis would be that there was a very large gap between his really good and really bad games which frustrated me. There are plenty of guys that frustrated me with their bad play over the years and all were good players that when they played poorly it stood out.
Also, note that I should have said frustrated me, not bothered me.
Of course I'm serious. One could find very large gaps between the really good and really bad games of any Marquette player, even the likes of Wade and Lee. I mean, D-Wade didn't show up for the Holy Cross game and he would never have become an MU legend if Diener hadn't saved his bacon that day. So I was wondering what it was about Lewis' bad games that bothered - or frustrated - you more than Hauser's many bad games down the stretch in 2018-19.
Hey, we all have favorites. That's cool. For the record, I don't lump you in with those who called Lewis "lazy" or who actually are saying they're glad he's leaving. I guess Justin musta stolen their lunch money or something. Assuming he leaves, he'll very much be missed. You're smart enough to know it's not easy replacing a first-team all-league player who averaged 17/8 and figures to only get better.
If on paper Shaka has not added a couple of impact transfers in a month I will be concerned, but not today.
Agree with this. Have a good one.
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Yeah, thats a nice change in the rules - but Justin is going to be, at best, a mid to late 2nd rounder. But someone will blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him he can be the next JTA and he'll go with nothing but a two-way contract in hand.
Justin's best shot at a meaningful and sustained NBA career is to come back and kill it for another year by grabbing BE POY and a few NCAA wins. I get he could technically still do that, but it seems once these guys get a sniff of the NBA they're gone.
Scottie Reynolds was a first team all American and never even got a cup of coffee in the NBA
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Rico
I am not sure what Sam Hauser being one of my post Al favorite players has to do with Lewis deciding to leave, but I guess you do. As I said over the weekend, I was hoping Lewis would be back for next season and I am disappointed he is not coming back. That said, I wish Lewis good luck and time to look forward for the program. Shaka has a big hole to fill, but selling a big hole should be easier task than selling a role player position.
I think Lewis will be missed, but maybe not to the extent you believe he be missed. I am fairly certain the news did not catch Shaka by surprise and he has been recruiting transfers accordingly. If on paper Shaka has not added a couple of impact transfers in a month I will be concerned, but not today.
Of the guys that MU has been linked to in the transfer portal, who would you consider an "impact transfer"?
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Lazer
Truthfully, I could not say who is the right guys or not and I trust Shaka to figure that out. I could throw out names for the hell of it, but that is all it would be. I do know, an awful lot of transfers and grad transfers were in starting lineups late in March this year and expect the same to hold true next season.
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Guy who pretends to be serious get's suddenly unserious when asked questions.
ok… My interest is Marquette basketball winning. That’s it. I believe Justin Lewis would be very good next year and help Marquette win a lot of games. That’s my sole interest here. Pre MU, post MU, I have no interest. I’m interested in MU winning. That’s it. Nothing more. Full stop. You can judge if you so chose. I’m not bothered by that. And, I’m an altruistic guy. I care. In my personal life I back-up my altruistic sentiments with action. But in this case, the case of MU basketball? I’m looking at just one thing…wins. Nothing more. No blabber about have a great life.
Still want that sandwich? If not, I’ll take it. Toasted please.
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82
Are you serious? The biggest issue for me on Lewis would be that there was a very large gap between his really good and really bad games which frustrated me. There are plenty of guys that frustrated me with their bad play over the years and all were good players that when they played poorly it stood out.
Also, note that I should have said frustrated me, not bothered me.
.
Goose,
Should we be surprised that a first-time starter being asked to carry the offensive load for his team showed occasional flashes of inconsitency?
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Lazer
Truthfully, I could not say who is the right guys or not and I trust Shaka to figure that out. I could throw out names for the hell of it, but that is all it would be. I do know, an awful lot of transfers and grad transfers were in starting lineups late in March this year and expect the same to hold true next season.
Fair enough. But safe to assume you're expecting starter-type minutes from a couple transfers?
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Pakuni
I would hope that we would not have a first-time starter replacing Lewis.
Lazer
100% expecting starters from the transfer portal, not just starter like minutes.
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ok… My interest is Marquette basketball winning. That’s it. I believe Justin Lewis would be very good next year and help Marquette win a lot of games. That’s my sole interest here. Pre MU, post MU, I have no interest. I’m interested in MU winning. That’s it. Nothing more. Full stop. You can judge if you so chose. I’m not bothered by that. And, I’m an altruistic guy. I care. In my personal life I back-up my altruistic sentiments with action. But in this case, the case of MU basketball? I’m looking at just one thing…wins. Nothing more. No blabber about have a great life.
Still want that sandwich? If not, I’ll take it. Toasted please.
Hahaha. I respect it
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At the end of the day NBA draft is done based on age and potential. So the longer you stay in college is a detriment to you getting drafted. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn’t understand how the NBA draft works.
As for Marquette basketball, the program collectively benefits from players going to the NBA. We should support Justin in his quest and while it may impact performance next year, long term it benefits the program.
So we should all be rooting for Justin, not tearing down the kids dreams.
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At the end of the day NBA draft is done based on age and potential. So the longer you stay in college is a detriment to you getting drafted. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn’t understand how the NBA draft works.
Quite often, yes, but sometimes no. Ochai Agbaji is a great example of someone who went from fringe draft pick to coming back and becoming a likely lottery pick. Justin could do the same, or he could be the next Johnny Juzang. But with NIL, if you can get paid while you try to increase your stock, it at least makes staying a more viable option for guys who are perceived to be in the 45-undrafted range rather than surefire first round picks.
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ok… My interest is Marquette basketball winning. That’s it. I believe Justin Lewis would be very good next year and help Marquette win a lot of games. That’s my sole interest here. Pre MU, post MU, I have no interest. I’m interested in MU winning. That’s it. Nothing more. Full stop. You can judge if you so chose. I’m not bothered by that. And, I’m an altruistic guy. I care. In my personal life I back-up my altruistic sentiments with action. But in this case, the case of MU basketball? I’m looking at just one thing…wins. Nothing more. No blabber about have a great life.
Still want that sandwich? If not, I’ll take it. Toasted please.
Understood. Thanks for your honesty.
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At the end of the day NBA draft is done based on age and potential. So the longer you stay in college is a detriment to you getting drafted. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn’t understand how the NBA draft works.
As for Marquette basketball, the program collectively benefits from players going to the NBA. We should support Justin in his quest and while it may impact performance next year, long term it benefits the program.
So we should all be rooting for Justin, not tearing down the kids dreams.
Agree with you about Justin.
Just curious, how do you think the program has benefited from players in the NBA? While it is great see see guys play and the occasional MU mention, I am not sure it translates into success for the program itself on the court. What are your thoughts?
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The high school kids watch the NBA and they see what path the players took to get there. The kids who want to get to the league will try to follow the path that's already been blazed, a proven path to the NBA. If that path goes through Marquette for a player like Justin Lewis (or Dwyane Wade or Jimmy Butler or Jae Crowder or Markus Howard or Juan Anderson), then that highly rated high school player will believe that MU can help get him there too, and may choose MU over some other school.
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Agree with you about Justin.
Just curious, how do you think the program has benefited from players in the NBA? While it is great see see guys play and the occasional MU mention, I am not sure it translates into success for the program itself on the court. What are your thoughts?
You would think it would help recruiting. That’s why they tweet out great games of former players after NBA games. That’s why they also have former MU players in the NBA speak with the team when they are in town. That’s why the MU/NBA faces are plastered all over the walls of the Al.
It has to help somewhat. Just as Jordan brand helps somewhat. Shaka will be the main reason for recruits to come however and his NBA track record with players will definitely help. It all helps and can’t hurt unless your program has zero NBA players.
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I hope our star Justin Lewis returns
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Agree with you about Justin.
Just curious, how do you think the program has benefited from players in the NBA? While it is great see see guys play and the occasional MU mention, I am not sure it translates into success for the program itself on the court. What are your thoughts?
I think Dwyane Wade was almost directly responsible for the Amigos class, and that he continues to show up in recruitment pics almost 20 years after he left campus shows how NBA success can resonate over a full generation. I think having alums like Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder help, but I'm not sure either resonate the way a top-75 player does.
As far as benefits, I think having multiple successful players makes a difference and I think having recognizable stars makes a difference. It was a big deal when we had both Wade and a litany of guys, but now that DW is out of the league and I don't think Butler has ever been as recognizably tied to Marquette, it's less of a deal than it was.
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It was cool when Wade was an analyst for the dunk contest and every time Juan got ready to dunk, Wade said, “We Are … !”
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I think Dwyane Wade was almost directly responsible for the Amigos class, and that he continues to show up in recruitment pics almost 20 years after he left campus shows how NBA success can resonate over a full generation. I think having alums like Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder help, but I'm not sure either resonate the way a top-75 player does.
As far as benefits, I think having multiple successful players makes a difference and I think having recognizable stars makes a difference. It was a big deal when we had both Wade and a litany of guys, but now that DW is out of the league and I don't think Butler has ever been as recognizably tied to Marquette, it's less of a deal than it was.
I think thats largely due to him 1) not being a star in college like Wade and 2) not being a lottery pick/huge impact rookie. Cause he's made reference to Marquette plenty. He was even talking about MU and Juan at the ASG this year. I think there was an Athletic article about him and Crowder and their MU history.
I mean look at Middleton. Another guy who came into the league a bit quietly and became a star later in his career. I bet a lot of Bucks fans can't even name where he went to college
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I mean look at Middleton. Another guy who came into the league a bit quietly and became a star later in his career. I bet a lot of Bucks fans can't even name where he went to college
I can! ;D
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I think thats largely due to him 1) not being a star in college like Wade and 2) not being a lottery pick/huge impact rookie. Cause he's made reference to Marquette plenty. He was even talking about MU and Juan at the ASG this year. I think there was an Athletic article about him and Crowder and their MU history.
I mean look at Middleton. Another guy who came into the league a bit quietly and became a star later in his career. I bet a lot of Bucks fans can't even name where he went to college
I watch a lot of Big XII Saturday basketball and saw a lot of Middleton back in the day. No way did I see this
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Pakuni
I would hope that we would not have a first-time starter replacing Lewis.
Lazer
100% expecting starters from the transfer portal, not just starter like minutes.
I think my MU buddy from Green Bay may have a couple first time starters at Keeneland this spring meet.
“Down in Lexington, even the horses bow down to the round ball” -Al McGuire
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GoFast
One of my buddies plays the horses fulltime and loves Keeneland. I am sure he would love the tips!
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GoFast
One of my buddies plays the horses fulltime and loves Keeneland. I am sure he would love the tips!
Goose
Keeneland is pure class. From the grounds to the backdrop…to the friendliness of the tellers and kitchen staff (the bread pudding is out of this 🌎) …to the subtle but strong race calls of southern IL native Kurt Becker.
I think we will both have to wait and see if my buddy is reading MU Scoop, as when I’m quiet he usually wins lol. When I ask, it’s not quite “put ‘em in the bathroom” bad but it’s a bit Mush-y 😂. That said, when I met him at the Spring ‘18 KN meet, he did really well. I got to be in the Winners Circle with him and his Brad Cox-trained turf horse. One of the highlights of my life. He’s a great guy and extremely knowledgeable on MU hoops as well.
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GoFast
Have your buddy pony up some money for the NIL fund.
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You would think it would help recruiting. That’s why they tweet out great games of former players after NBA games. That’s why they also have former MU players in the NBA speak with the team when they are in town. That’s why the MU/NBA faces are plastered all over the walls of the Al.
It has to help somewhat. Just as Jordan brand helps somewhat. Shaka will be the main reason for recruits to come however and his NBA track record with players will definitely help. It all helps and can’t hurt unless your program has zero NBA players.
It 100% helps attract top tier talent as their number one goal is to get to the NBA.
Show me a consistently successful program that does not follow this model?
Sure there might be anecdotal examples that do not follow this pattern but the consistent top 10 programs all do.
I also agree that NIL is a game changer for programs keeping top talent that will not get opportunities in the NBA, which is exactly why MU needs to have alignment with local and international brands that can provide lucrative contracts for these players. Contracts with local bars will not be sufficient in the future to keep kids of Justin’s talent around or coming to MU.
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GoFast
One of my buddies plays the horses fulltime and loves Keeneland. I am sure he would love the tips!
Even if you're just a casual race fan, I would highly recommend an afternoon at Keeneland during it's Spring meet. I was there in 1975 and I believe the place was about 100 years old then. Definitely the Fenway Park or Wrigley Field of horseracing. Beautiful setting in the Bluegrass countryside.
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Quite often, yes, but sometimes no. Ochai Agbaji is a great example of someone who went from fringe draft pick to coming back and becoming a likely lottery pick. Justin could do the same, or he could be the next Johnny Juzang. But with NIL, if you can get paid while you try to increase your stock, it at least makes staying a more viable option for guys who are perceived to be in the 45-undrafted range rather than surefire first round picks.
I agree it is at least an option for those guys, but if I'm in their shoes I 100% go to Europe or the GLeague. Maybe someone with insight can share more information, but I can't imagine a guy like Lewis making a ton of money. (Would be interesting if there are IRS issues and some of the numbers come to light due to investigations in under reporting)
I think long-term, going pro and focusing 100% on being a NBA player and playing against professional grown men with professional coaches is better than getting playing time in college.
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Bacot is returning to UNC. I am sure he could make a ton of money going pro, but he is is staying.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2022/04/13/armando-bacot-unc-north-carolina-returning-senior-season/7307638001/
Here we are convinced Justin is leaving because he can do better than if he stays. If he does leave that says a lot about Marquette basketball.
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Bacot is returning to UNC. I am sure he could make a ton of money going pro, but he is is staying.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2022/04/13/armando-bacot-unc-north-carolina-returning-senior-season/7307638001/
Here we are convinced Justin is leaving because he can do better than if he stays. If he does leave that says a lot about Marquette basketball.
Correct it says we are back to producing NBA players again.
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Bacot is returning to UNC. I am sure he could make a ton of money going pro, but he is is staying.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2022/04/13/armando-bacot-unc-north-carolina-returning-senior-season/7307638001/
Here we are convinced Justin is leaving because he can do better than if he stays. If he does leave that says a lot about Marquette basketball.
I'm guessing UNC's NIL situation is a lot better than MU's.
Not to mention Bacot shot a total of 9 three pointers in his three years in college so far. Justin is much more of what NBA teams look for. Heck the national player of the year this year will probably return to school, in large part because he'd be a late draft pick if he left. Justin would probably be drafted higher than either of those guys.
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Bacot is returning to UNC. I am sure he could make a ton of money going pro, but he is is staying.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2022/04/13/armando-bacot-unc-north-carolina-returning-senior-season/7307638001/
Here we are convinced Justin is leaving because he can do better than if he stays. If he does leave that says a lot about Marquette basketball.
[/quote
How much is Justin going to make and from who? How much did Garcia get from the seafood restaurant?
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Wow! If there ever was a guy who's stock was about as high as it could get it would be Bacot. I mean the only way he could break his NCAA double double record would be for UNC to play in the Dayton games next year :).
It does kind of make me wonder why a player who shows any next level ability at MU is always encouraged to take the money and run like dong otherwise would be "stupid" but there are many instances of college players who DON'T do that. When D Wade took us to the FF I was all in on him declaring for the NBA. Can't miss talent. Justin is no Wade. I could definitely see him staying unless he really doesn't like school.
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Wow! If there ever was a guy who's stock was about as high as it could get it would be Bacot. I mean the only way he could break his NCAA double double record would be for UNC to play in the Dayton games next year :).
It does kind of make me wonder why a player who shows any next level ability at MU is always encouraged to take the money and run like dong otherwise would be "stupid" but there are many instances of college players who DON'T do that. When D Wade took us to the FF I was all in on him declaring for the NBA. Can't miss talent. Justin is no Wade. I could definitely see him staying unless he really doesn't like school.
Was Bacot projected to go high in the draft? Most of the reviews I have seen have him second round at best.
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Was Bacot projected to go high in the draft? Most of the reviews I have seen have him second round at best.
Didn't see him in any reputable mock drafts at all, even after the tourney.
Sam Vecenie didn't have him in his top 100 Big Board
Givony/ DraftExpress didn't have him in the Top 60
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Bacot is an elite college player. He will likely not have a long NBA career, if he has one at all.
Bacot is a better college player than Lewis (right now, keep in mind Bacot is two years ahead of Lewis). Lewis is a much better pro prospect.
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OK that is what I thought. Thank you.
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Wow! If there ever was a guy who's stock was about as high as it could get it would be Bacot. I mean the only way he could break his NCAA double double record would be for UNC to play in the Dayton games next year :).
It does kind of make me wonder why a player who shows any next level ability at MU is always encouraged to take the money and run like dong otherwise would be "stupid" but there are many instances of college players who DON'T do that. When D Wade took us to the FF I was all in on him declaring for the NBA. Can't miss talent. Justin is no Wade. I could definitely see him staying unless he really doesn't like school.
Bacot does not have an NBA game. He’s smart to get his degree for free.
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Bacot does not have an NBA game. He’s smart to get his degree for free.
But he'll make a good living in Europe.
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Bacot does not have an NBA game. He’s smart to get his degree for free.
He is academic All ACC afterall.
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Correct it says we are back to producing NBA players again.
I didn't see any potential NBA player playing for MU when UNC was blowing us off the court. You have your opinion and I have mine. Obviously Bacot feels staying at UNC is better for his career than going pro now be it in Europe, NBA or G-league; whereas here Justin is the better pro prospect and leaves for the G-league he'll get better coaching and development to make the NBA than if he stayed at MU. So what does that say about MU basketball: If you're not a first/second round draft pick after 2 years at MU you're better off in the G-league than at MU if you want to play in the NBA? Not a good look for MU basketball in my opinion and it saddens me to say it as I want the program to succeed.
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I didn't see any potential NBA player playing for MU when UNC was blowing us off the court.
Did you see any potential NBA players playing for MU when Murray State was blowing us off the court?
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Did you see any potential NBA players playing for MU when Murray State was blowing us off the court?
My brother in Christ, why did you have to bring that game up.
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I didn't see any potential NBA player playing for MU when UNC was blowing us off the court. You have your opinion and I have mine. Obviously Bacot feels staying at UNC is better for his career than going pro now be it in Europe, NBA or G-league; whereas here Justin is the better pro prospect and leaves for the G-league he'll get better coaching and development to make the NBA than if he stayed at MU. So what does that say about MU basketball: If you're not a first/second round draft pick after 2 years at MU you're better off in the G-league than at MU if you want to play in the NBA? Not a good look for MU basketball in my opinion and it saddens me to say it as I want the program to succeed.
I think it says that MU
( and other similar situated schools)do not have boosters who will pay a six figure number to a kid to stay in school.
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I didn't see any potential NBA player playing for MU when UNC was blowing us off the court. You have your opinion and I have mine. Obviously Bacot feels staying at UNC is better for his career than going pro now be it in Europe, NBA or G-league; whereas here Justin is the better pro prospect and leaves for the G-league he'll get better coaching and development to make the NBA than if he stayed at MU. So what does that say about MU basketball: If you're not a first/second round draft pick after 2 years at MU you're better off in the G-league than at MU if you want to play in the NBA? Not a good look for MU basketball in my opinion and it saddens me to say it as I want the program to succeed.
I saw 3, maybe 4 future NBA players on MU during that game.
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I saw 3, maybe 4 future NBA players on MU during that game.
???
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???
Justin, Darryl, Kam and maybe OMax.
Projecting on Kam and OMax obviously.
Justin, no doubter.
I think Darryl is in that 2-way contract ballpark
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Justin, Darryl, Kam and maybe OMax.
Projecting on Kam and OMax obviously.
Justin, no doubter.
I think Darryl is in that 2-way contract ballpark
So if I'm reading this right, Shaka got the doors blown off with nearly a starting lineup's worth of NBA players?
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So if I'm reading this right, Shaka got the doors blown off with nearly a starting lineup's worth of NBA players?
All I’m saying is that I think there are 4 guys on last years team who could eventually get NBA minutes. That’s it.
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Heck the national player of the year this year will probably return to school, in large part because he'd be a late draft pick if he left. Justin would probably be drafted higher than either of those guys.
Has the Naismith POY been announced yet? Of the 4 finalists (Davis from UW, Murray from Iowa, and the guys from Kansas and Kentucky) who would Justin be taken in front of in the NBA draft?
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Has the Naismith POY been announced yet? Of the 4 finalists (Davis from UW, Murray from Iowa, and the guys from Kansas and Kentucky) who would Justin be taken in front of in the NBA draft?
Oscar Tshiebwe of Kentucky won it. He's likely going to be back at Kentucky next year.
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Has the Naismith POY been announced yet? Of the 4 finalists (Davis from UW, Murray from Iowa, and the guys from Kansas and Kentucky) who would Justin be taken in front of in the NBA draft?
Tshiebwe won every major national player of the year award this year, and Justin would be taken right around where Tshiebwe would be taken if both entered and stayed in the NBA Draft this year.
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Has the Naismith POY been announced yet? Of the 4 finalists (Davis from UW, Murray from Iowa, and the guys from Kansas and Kentucky) who would Justin be taken in front of in the NBA draft?
Oscar Tshiebwe won it. Most mocks have him as a late second or undrafted.
SI: Undrafted (Lewis#38)
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/14/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jaden-ivey
The Athletic: 46th (Lewis #29)
https://theathletic.com/3127230/2022/02/17/2022-nba-mock-draft-5-0-chet-holmgren-at-no-1-aj-griffin-in-top-5-questions-abound-with-this-years-class/
NBA Draft Net: 45th (Lewis undrafted)
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Sporting News: 27th (Lewis 24th)
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jabari-smith/oa5xmslpsvire8kj9ubtnktx
Bleacher Report: 54th (Lewis 48th)
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions
There's a long way to go before the draft, and who knows what'll happen, but it's definitely possible, if not likely, Justin gets drafted ahead of the Naismith winner.
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Oscar Tshiebwe won it. Most mocks have him as a late second or undrafted.
SI: Undrafted (Lewis#38)
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/14/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jaden-ivey
The Athletic: 46th (Lewis #29)
https://theathletic.com/3127230/2022/02/17/2022-nba-mock-draft-5-0-chet-holmgren-at-no-1-aj-griffin-in-top-5-questions-abound-with-this-years-class/
NBA Draft Net: 45th (Lewis undrafted)
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Sporting News: 27th (Lewis 24th)
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jabari-smith/oa5xmslpsvire8kj9ubtnktx
Bleacher Report: 54th (Lewis 48th)
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions
There's a long way to go before the draft, and who knows what'll happen, but it's definitely possible, if not likely, Justin gets drafted ahead of the Naismith winner.
Thanks for the info. The one mock I looked at had Tshiebwe #33 and Lewis undrafted.
I only saw Tshiebwe play a couple of times so I have no opinion on his NBA future (if any). My opinion on Justin is that he’s too slow to play on the perimeter in the NBA given the way the game has changed. If he has a future it’s as an undersized 5 (his wingspan helps here). Could he improve his stock by playing some at the 5 next year at MU? Sure, but it works both ways.
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I think Dwyane Wade was almost directly responsible for the Amigos class, and that he continues to show up in recruitment pics almost 20 years after he left campus shows how NBA success can resonate over a full generation. I think having alums like Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder help, but I'm not sure either resonate the way a top-75 player does.
As far as benefits, I think having multiple successful players makes a difference and I think having recognizable stars makes a difference. It was a big deal when we had both Wade and a litany of guys, but now that DW is out of the league and I don't think Butler has ever been as recognizably tied to Marquette, it's less of a deal than it was.
Brew,
I understand what you are saying. I guess my point is the last 10 years we have done nothing with guys in the league. At then end of the day, it's the coaches that are the draw in my opinion. Guys playing in the league is nice, but coaches get he players.
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Oscar Tshiebwe won it. Most mocks have him as a late second or undrafted.
Like Bacot, he is a great college player whose skillset for his size probably won't translate to the NBA.
I think of Kevin Looney as a comp for these guys - except Looney is an outstanding defensive player.
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I think you mean Kevon Looney
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Brew,
I understand what you are saying. I guess my point is the last 10 years we have done nothing with guys in the league. At then end of the day, it's the coaches that are the draw in my opinion. Guys playing in the league is nice, but coaches get he players.
Shaka gets forwards in the league. Brown, Hayes, Bamba, Jones, Sims, Allen.
Now Justin..
Thats a decent draw for, JQ Roberts, Milan Momcilovic, Carey Booth, and JP Estrella and other furture prospects
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Shaka gets forwards in the league. Brown, Hayes, Bamba, Jones, Sims, Allen.
Now Justin..
Thats a decent draw for, JQ Roberts, Milan Momcilovic, Carey Booth, and JP Estrella and other furture prospects
It’s difficult to see into the furture
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It’s difficult to see into the furture
Crystal ball!!!
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Cryrstal barl for seeing into the furture.
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It’s difficult to see into the furture
Just listing some options. Also. future.
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In the furture, the word "future" will be spelled "furture".
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If you look ahead and see Belfast in the middle, is that 'furNIture'
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Justin Lewis isn’t ready for the next level but let’s not act surprised… he wasn’t a 4 year player coming into Marquette. These players have a get paid mentality and the sooner they start making money the better. He’s going to develop into a great player for some higher level but I think he lacks the speed to make it on defense in the NBA. Wish him the best.
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Justin Lewis isn’t ready for the next level but let’s not act surprised… he wasn’t a 4 year player coming into Marquette. These players have a get paid mentality and the sooner they start making money the better. He’s going to develop into a great player for some higher level but I think he lacks the speed to make it on defense in the NBA. Wish him the best.
Lewis wasn’t even a top 100 player coming out of HS (according to 247) and averaged single digits as a freshman. There was nothing to suggest that he had a “get paid mentality” when he arrived at Marquette or even going into this year.
He earned the right to consider other options by how well he played this past season, when Marquette would have won 8 or 9 games without him.
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Lewis wasn’t even a top 100 player coming out of HS (according to 247) and averaged single digits as a freshman. There was nothing to suggest that he had a “get paid mentality” when he arrived at Marquette or even going into this year.
He earned the right to consider other options by how well he played this past season, when Marquette would have won 8 or 9 games without him.
He was a team USA top 20 prospect. And on the same websites were he was not top 100. He was picked to be a successful UDFA, with a comparison to Gary Clark
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He was a team USA top 20 prospect. And on the same websites were he was not top 100. He was picked to be a successful UDFA, with a comparison to Gary Clark
Cool. You got proof he entered Marquette with a “get paid mentality”?
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Cool. You got proof he entered Marquette with a “get paid mentality”?
I’m sorry I assumed that you lived in a capitalist country. How is pyongyang?
Everyone wants to get paid. It’s dumb to assume otherwise. USA is a capitalist country last time I checked. It’s the normal disposition for most people.
My point was he was held in high esteem and thought to have a shot at the NBA before college.
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I’m sorry I assumed that you lived in a capitalist country. How is pyongyang?
Everyone wants to get paid. It’s dumb to assume otherwise. USA is a capitalist country last time I checked. It’s the normal disposition for most people.
My point was he was held in high esteem and thought to have a shot at the NBA before college.
I don't know what the general consensus was about his NBA prospects before college, so I'll take your word for it.
By your definition of "get paid mentality," about 95% of NCAA basketball players in our capitalist country have it (and 95% might be low). Unfortunately for them, only single-digit percentages actually are gonna get paid to play in the NBA.
If you want to continue to argue about semantics, you can have the last word. I'll just wish you a great weekend and move on.
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Oscar Tshiebwe won it. Most mocks have him as a late second or undrafted.
SI: Undrafted (Lewis#38)
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/14/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jaden-ivey
The Athletic: 46th (Lewis #29)
https://theathletic.com/3127230/2022/02/17/2022-nba-mock-draft-5-0-chet-holmgren-at-no-1-aj-griffin-in-top-5-questions-abound-with-this-years-class/
NBA Draft Net: 45th (Lewis undrafted)
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Sporting News: 27th (Lewis 24th)
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-jabari-smith/oa5xmslpsvire8kj9ubtnktx
Bleacher Report: 54th (Lewis 48th)
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions
There's a long way to go before the draft, and who knows what'll happen, but it's definitely possible, if not likely, Justin gets drafted ahead of the Naismith winner.
He must have a damn good press agent.
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He must have a damn good press agent.
Lmao what
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He must have a damn good press agent.
Thanks, Wendall
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My Justin comp is Sam Hauser. Sam is a much better shooter with a quicker release. Both are too slow to play 2 or 3. Both can play stretch 4 but cannot guard a bigger player in that position. Both are good D-League players who can fill a small role on the end of an NBA bench. Lewis might bang a bit better than Hauser but neither has "in the paint" skills that translate to NBA level.
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'cept you forgot Sam iz gettin' paid, hey?
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'cept you forgot Sam iz gettin' paid, hey?
Latest economics for Sam
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/sam-hauser-74311/
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My Justin comp is Sam Hauser. Sam is a much better shooter with a quicker release. Both are too slow to play 2 or 3. Both can play stretch 4 but cannot guard a bigger player in that position. Both are good D-League players who can fill a small role on the end of an NBA bench. Lewis might bang a bit better than Hauser but neither has "in the paint" skills that translate to NBA level.
Justin Lewis is an above the rim player with a 7'2" wingspan.
Sam Hauser is a below the rim 3-point specialist.
They couldn't be more different players.
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Justin Lewis is an above the rim player with a 7'2" wingspan.
Sam Hauser is a below the rim 3-point specialist.
They couldn't be more different players.
Yep.
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I don't know what the general consensus was about his NBA prospects before college, so I'll take your word for it.
By your definition of "get paid mentality," about 95% of NCAA basketball players in our capitalist country have it (and 95% might be low). Unfortunately for them, only single-digit percentages actually are gonna get paid to play in the NBA.
If you want to continue to argue about semantics, you can have the last word. I'll just wish you a great weekend and move on.
My point was Justin was closer to this percentage of people than most MU recruits. Both at 16 and at 19. Whether his odds to make it to the league were 30% or 80% he has always been close. Despite a few overall rankings that would indicate he was some “average MU recruit”, he’s been a near pro and in their purview since age 16.
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Justin Lewis is an above the rim player with a 7'2" wingspan.
Sam Hauser is a below the rim 3-point specialist.
They couldn't be more different players.
My point is that Lewis is too slow to play above the rim in today's NBA, relegating him to a Hauser-like role. Even at MU, he's only "above the rim" with a good runway and/or when not defended. You want to pretend he's a Jonathan Kuminga or Anthony Edwards, go ahead. He's not. Maybe a Jordan Nwora.
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My point is that Lewis is too slow to play above the rim in today's NBA, relegating him to a Hauser-like role. Even at MU, he's only "above the rim" with a good runway and/or when not defended. You want to pretend he's a Jonathan Kuminga or Anthony Edwards, go ahead. He's not. Maybe a Jordan Nwora.
Not a bad gig, then
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After Wrightsil committed to Marquette, the entire team, including Justin, followed him on Instagram.
It's pretty cool that Justin still is considering himself a part of the program until the very moment he is gone. That's the type of culture Shaka has created in 1 year.
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justin wouldnt follow new players under wojo!
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justin wouldnt follow new players under wojo!
Not at all relative, but he probably would because if Wojo was his coach Wrightsil would probably be Justin's teammate next year.
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My point is that Lewis is too slow to play above the rim in today's NBA, relegating him to a Hauser-like role. Even at MU, he's only "above the rim" with a good runway and/or when not defended. You want to pretend he's a Jonathan Kuminga or Anthony Edwards, go ahead. He's not. Maybe a Jordan Nwora.
Equating the athletic ability of Lewis and Hauser is ludicrous.
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Equating the athletic ability of Lewis and Hauser is ludicrous.
What? You missed all of Sam’s soaring dunks?
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We likely under appreciate Justin’s letter writing ability as well.
What? You missed all of Sam’s soaring dunks?
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
Not unique to Kentucky. Can just as easily happen at Marquette.
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Not unique to Kentucky. Can just as easily happen at Marquette.
How much has Lewis been offered to stay at Marquette?
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How much has Lewis been offered to stay at Marquette?
Nothing, I hope. He’s terrible. Ever see his body language?
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
Wait a minute....is this actually official?
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
Wow, players used to pick schools for coaches. Even Al wouldn’t be able to compete at MU with that kind of money being thrown around.
“I looked in his fridge and it was empty so I told him to go to Kentucky”, would have been the quote.
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
Cal can do this legally now but this type of money is going to hurt college basketball in the long run, just have to have a bunch of rich alumni, simple
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Nothing, I hope. He’s terrible. Ever see his body language?
All-Americans get a Cadillac Eldorado. 20-point scorers get a set of steak knives. "Lazy" players with bad body language ... you're fired. You get the picture?
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Ain’t capitalism grand?
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Wow, players used to pick schools for coaches. Even Al wouldn’t be able to compete at MU with that kind of money being thrown around.
“I looked in his fridge and it was empty so I told him to go to Kentucky”, would have been the quote.
You're high if you don't think the level of program Marquette was, and the profile that they and Al had at the time, wouldn't be able to round up NIL money.
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If you are a shoe company, why wouldn't you pay players via NIL to raise their profile at the right place to guarantee they sign with you down the road.
Or an agent for that matter too.
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You're high if you don't think the level of program Marquette was, and the profile that they and Al had at the time, wouldn't be able to round up NIL money.
I understand the level they were at in a completely different world and landscape. You are high if you think he would have been able to recruit that type of athlete to MU at the beginning of his tenure. He wouldn’t have been able to get it off the ground with other schools offering that kind of money.
Player went to MU for Al. Players will now go to schools for cash. Different world now. Al would have gone where he could win. MU might not have been that place in todays world.
I loved the seventies success as much as anyone. Don’t let my realism fool you. When I see MU alums offering millions to players I will be more optimistic.
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Does UK need to come up with a similar amount of cash to pay a player on the women's team?
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Does UK need to come up with a similar amount of cash to pay a player on the women's team?
UK can't and doesn't pay this.
wink wink
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Shooter
Do you think any MU players in the Al era were on the payroll of any alum owned companies?
Only thing different today from 40 years ago is that Kentucky can advertise how far they are over the salary cap. Kentucky players have been on the payroll for a very, very long time. The fact they are giving $2m really does not mean much to me in the big picture.
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Wait a minute....is this actually official?
MuggsyB yes. Official.
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Does UK need to come up with a similar amount of cash to pay a player on the women's team?
No
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Shooter
Do you think any MU players in the Al era were on the payroll of any alum owned companies?
Only thing different today from 40 years ago is that Kentucky can advertise how far they are over the salary cap. Kentucky players have been on the payroll for a very, very long time. The fact they are giving $2m really does not mean much to me in the big picture.
Goose,
If MU was as competitive as you say in this regard at the time, refrigerators would not have been empty. Full refrigerators would have been the norm and MU would have won one or two more championships because Al was that good. Some chump change bag money? Maybe. Life changing money? Not a chance.
I think we are overrating our alums and donors willing to pony up. I hope I’m wrong and you are right. Believe me I hope the millions start flowing and we have Al like success again. Only now it will take Al plus tax.
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NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Oscar Tschiebwe will return to Kentucky and earn in the neighborhood of $2 Million in NIL money.
That's what teams are up against. NIL is no joke!
Only person that could ever stop Tschiebwe was Bobby Huggins.
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MuggsyB yes. Official.
This is a disaster for college hoops. Do I have to cash out my portfolio or will you and other scoopers take care of this stuff immediately?
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This is a disaster for college hoops. Do I have to cash out my portfolio or will you and other scoopers take care of this stuff immediately?
Ain’t capitalism grand?
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Shooter
First, I do not think Al ran a dirty program, but I 100% believe he ran a creative program. No, Jimmy Chones was far better off going to the ABA midseason than he would have been remaining in school, but he was a unique talent. Two things I think virtually anyone that was around the Al era can agree on is, #1 he truly cared about his players and #2 Al was going to get his fair share every day of the week. If those two points are true, I am confident the two crossed over from time to time. I 100% believe that MU, and Al, did not become a top ten program for a decade simply based off of Al's charm and Hank's X's and O's.
That said, UCLA and Kentucky played in a different level in regard to being creative. I remember vividly Rick telling me about an incoming transfer to Kentucky in the late 70's that was promised a six figure summer job prior to announcing the transfer. Now, maybe he inflated the income, but he did not make the story up. For clarity, I probably asked Rick to repeat that story a half dozen times over a twenty year period and the story did not change.
Kentucky, and other schools, have used wealthy alums to support the program for as long as I have been alive. MU has wealthy alums and always has had wealthy alums, with some enjoying being part of the program. In the NIL world it allows those alums to feel good about their involvement in the program. IMO, you only need the right one or two guys to play the NIL game and maybe MU has one or two of those guys that want to use their money to build a program.
I am not foolish enough to think that MU can compete with every top donor school and they never could, but I do believe there is enough firepower out there to play with almost any school. In addition, lets say $1m is needed to fund the NIL program at MU, I will take my chances of five guys getting $200k a year vs one guy getting $1m over the long haul.
Lastly, if MU, and Shaka, are not going to be in position to compete in the NIL, they wasted a lot of money buying Wojo out and paying Shaka. NIL is now a major part of the game and not being competitive is not an option, if MU wants a top tier program. IMO, if I were Shaka I would be recruiting NIL money as hard as recruiting players. From what I hear, it is virtually impossible not to like Shaka and the energy he brings to the table every day of his life. If that does not bring in NIL money, the program has a long road ahead of them.
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Shooter
Do you think any MU players in the Al era were on the payroll of any alum owned companies?
Only thing different today from 40 years ago is that Kentucky can advertise how far they are over the salary cap. Kentucky players have been on the payroll for a very, very long time. The fact they are giving $2m really does not mean much to me in the big picture.
Yes players were paid to come to MU from New York, fact
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BC
As I mentioned on Saturday, I know you know your stuff!!!
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Shooter
Do you think any MU players in the Al era were on the payroll of any alum owned companies?
Most definitely
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Fluff
We have agreed on two points over the past week, Stevie Mitchell impact on the program long term and your recent post. Let’s not make a habit of it.
Actually, we agreed on the departure of Greg as well.
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Cal can do this legally now but this type of money is going to hurt college basketball in the long run, just have to have a bunch of rich alumni, simple
How is it going to change anything? Those alums and money existed prior to NIL (and those players were paid before NIL too)
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jesmu
There might be good people with money that are willing to support a program now. I think it is a positive for schools like MU, not a negative.
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This is a disaster for college hoops. Do I have to cash out my portfolio or will you and other scoopers take care of this stuff immediately?
Why is the POY returning to college instead of going to the NBA (as he would have done before NIL) a disaster for college hoops?
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would he not go 1st round?
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Why is the POY returning to college instead of going to the NBA (as he would have done before NIL) a disaster for college hoops?
2 million is the disaster.
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would he not go 1st round?
He was not project to. Game doesn't translate well at the next level.
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2 million is the disaster.
No it’s not
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Oscar can make max what Justin is projected to make. And that his best case scenario in the draft.
His NIL offer is 2 million. His max draft contract value is like 2.3
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Muggsy
I love the NIL because it will bring good donors out and the crooks now have competition. There are good folks that would not give dirty money that very well might join the NIL game now. It is a new game, but I think it levels the playing field. Off the top of my head, I can think of a half dozen MU alums that back the school already and might participate in the NIL program.
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2 million is the disaster.
Why is a player making 2 million, thereby keeping him in college instead of the pros, a disaster for college hoops?
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Muggsy
I love the NIL because it will bring good donors out and the crooks now have competition. There are good folks that would not give dirty money that very well might join the NIL game now. It is a new game, but I think it levels the playing field. Off the top of my head, I can think of a half dozen MU alums that back the school already and might participate in the NIL program.
Yep. Programs that complain about fairness will be left behind. Programs that use creativity to leverage resources will reign supreme. And I don’t think people have any idea of the resources that are out there. For every big name that Scoopers have heard of, there are a half dozen that they don’t know about.
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TAMU
What is your take on the NIL program, big picture?
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Goose, what if Harvard decides it wants to win championships? How could any school compete with them? And you could say they're above that with their academic standards but we know what Duke has done. They could basically poach any player they want that Duke has gotten.
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Why is a player making 2 million, thereby keeping him in college instead of the pros, a disaster for college hoops?
I don't think bidding for players is good for the sport. As far as I know there is no NIL limit. My concern is not only will the sane schools with huge money get the best players but the product will be considerably worse if they're paid.
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Goose, what if Harvard decides it wants to win championships? How could any school compete with them? And you could say they're above that with their academic standards but we know what Duke has done. They could basically poach any player they want that Duke has gotten.
Lol. Sure.
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Goose, what if Harvard decides it wants to win championships? How could any school compete with them? And you could say they're above that with their academic standards but we know what Duke has done. They could basically poach any player they want that Duke has gotten.
Cool
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Muggsy,
Yes, if Harvard wanted to buy a national powerhouse they definitely could fund it. As a fan, I would prefer Harvard winning that battle over Kentucky. That said, I would hope that Harvard has higher aspirations than one upping Kentucky in men's basketball. As I said in another post, I think paying a number of guys reasonable money will beat out paying 1-2 guys crazy money for one year over the long haul.
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Nothing, I hope. He’s terrible. Ever see his body language?
Yes, lazy and uninterested.
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Muggsy,
Yes, if Harvard wanted to buy a national powerhouse they definitely could fund it. As a fan, I would prefer Harvard winning that battle over Kentucky. That said, I would hope that Harvard has higher aspirations than one upping Kentucky in men's basketball. As I said in another post, I think paying a number of guys reasonable money will beat out paying 1-2 guys crazy money for one year over the long haul.
As far as I know there is no NIL cap. If I was the Prez of Harvard I would be on pace to win 10 titles in the next 10 yrs and go like 420-0.
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Muggsy
Kentucky has no salary cap for 50+ years and have won how many championships?
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As far as I know there is no NIL cap. If I was the Prez of Harvard I would be on pace to win 10 titles in the next 10 yrs and go like 420-0.
Lol, what?
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Muggsy
Kentucky has no salary cap for 50+ years and have won how many championships?
I would buy the right players and poach them fron all pockets of the country. I'm being a little hyperbolic but I'm sure you understand my point.
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Do we feell Marquette can and will be competitive when it comes to the NiL landscape?
Maybe this is a bit COLE, but I can see Marquette being hurt more then helped by it but hopefully I’m way off base.
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I would buy the right players and poach them fron all pockets of the country. I'm being a little hyperbolic but I'm sure you understand my point.
I don't think that is Harvard donor's priority. Trust me, 10 of my '79 high school class went to Harvard, are filthy wealthy and they would not donate a penny for sports.
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This is a disaster for college hoops. Do I have to cash out my portfolio or will you and other scoopers take care of this stuff immediately?
No, but we have very wealthy donors who could match that if they wanted. Marcus Lemonis says hi! There are plenty of others.
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Newsie
Far bigger fish than Marcus, but he can join the party.
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Wait you mean the best players get paid to play at the best colleges? That’s really going to screw up the landscape of college basketball.
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Wait you mean the best players get paid to play at the best colleges? That’s really going to screw up the landscape of college basketball.
I'm worried about 7 figure bags of cash panda. Players have been paid but it could get to be a bidding clown show.
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If you are a shoe company, why wouldn't you pay players via NIL to raise their profile at the right place to guarantee they sign with you down the road.
Or an agent for that matter too.
Shoe money will probably shift from AAU teams to individual players.
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I'm worried about 7 figure bags of cash panda. Players have been paid but it could get to be a bidding clown show.
How does this change the landscape of college basketball ?
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How does this change the landscape of college basketball ?
We may have to find some auxiliary cash or work harder to compete.
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Can't see how Justin will play any minutes in the NBA. He needs to grow more in college. He's not that great of a college player now. He's got potential.
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Wow, we're throwing "disaster" around quite casually today.
Oscar Tshiebwe getting a huge NIL deal is a "disaster." Wright leaving is a "disaster."
At least folks aren't saying it's "literally a disaster," so there's that!
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We may have to find some auxiliary cash or work harder to compete.
Idk how often we’ve competed or will be competing with Kentucky for players so I’m not really too concerned.
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We may have to find some auxiliary cash or work harder to compete.
Muggsy, our company has some locations that are in college sports crazy markets . We have participated in some NIL in Big Ten and Big Twelve . The dollars have been inconsequential , although meaningful to the players .
MU has one advantage , in that there is no football team to feed . MU can pool it’s resources behind a handful of basketball players .
Also for whatever it’s worth, in year one we have now lost some of the players we sponsored to other programs with bigger NIL dollars . However we are replacing the lost players with transfers who have more promise, but haven’t totally proved themselves.
I think this is the new normal.
The premium in college basketball is going to be for coaches who can identify talent that they can develop and then do well in game coaching that talent . I think that is where Shaka is positioned on the coaching spectrum .
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Muggsy, our company has some locations that are in college sports crazy markets . We have participated in some NIL in Big Ten and Big Twelve . The dollars have been inconsequential , although meaningful to the players .
MU has one advantage , in that their is no football team to feed . MU can pool it’s resources behind a handful of basketball players .
Also for whatever it’s worth, in year one we have now lost some of the players we sponsored to other programs with bigger NIL dollars . However we are replacing the lost players with transfers who have more promise, but haven’t totally proved themselves.
I think this is the new normal.
The premium in college basketball is going to be for coaches who can identify talent that they can develop and then do well in game coaching that talent . I think that is where Shaka is positioned on the coaching spectrum .
I coud like the system if MU is a big player. If they can't I will be quite upset Herman. I'm just concerned we don't have the coin.
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I don't think bidding for players is good for the sport. As far as I know there is no NIL limit. My concern is not only will the sane schools with huge money get the best players but the product will be considerably worse if they're paid.
The product will be considerably worse if they're paid? I've also found that people perform better if they are well-compensated. Are college athletes not human?
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TAMU
What is your take on the NIL program, big picture?
Great news for the sport. More talent staying in college. Short term there will be some coaches who will be rotated out because they can't or don't want to figure out the new landscape. I agree with you that this will allow the legitimate donors to enter the marketplace and compete with the dirty money that has always existed at many programs.
More importantly, it was the right, ethical, and capitalist thing to do!
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The product will be considerably worse if they're paid? I've also found that people perform better if they are well-compensated. Are college athletes not human?
I hope you're right TAMU but I have my concerns. I'm afraid the hunger won't be there as much if everyone is getting paid. It could also lead to resentment if a player is not producing with a higher pay check.
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I hope you're right TAMU but I have my concerns. I'm afraid the hunger won't be there as much if everyone is getting paid. IIt could also lead to resentment if a player is not producing with a higher pay check.
So what happens between college and the pros where suddenly this isn't an issue anymore? Why does it only affect college athletes?
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So what happens between college and the pros where suddenly this isn't an issue anymore? Why does it only affect college athletes?
I don't think thr pros play as hard until the playoffs. They're obviously way more talented but the tenacity is spotty.
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I don't think thr pros play as hard until the playoffs. They're obviously way more talented but the tenacity is spotty.
You must be watching different pro sports than me
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Yes players were paid to come to MU from New York, fact
Life changing money? Probably not. Get a car money probably.
And I guess that’s my point. 2 mil is life changing money (obviously if invested the right way). A sandwich deal near Fiserv is not. Will our donors step up? Hopefully. I want you, TAMU, goose, 82 and others to be right. Hopefully your optimism is well founded.
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Newsie
Far bigger fish than Marcus, but he can join the party.
Obviously, but probably the most famous and does have the coin. Would be good PR for the MU NIL.
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I’m not sure why some think alums need to be involved. Marquette should (or already has) Hire/start an NIL marketing agency and work to find deals for all of their players across various advertising segments across the country.
Heck the lowest and most easily attainable should be hooking our guys up with some instagram ads. Anyone with a decent social media following can do a deal there.
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I want you, TAMU, goose, 82 and others to be right. Hopefully your optimism is well founded.
Right about what? What I've said is NIL was inevitable, and a positive step to compensate the athletes who make college sports possible. And that it won't be a "disaster" for college basketball.
Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc, already had a significant advantage over Marquette, and an enormous advantage over mid-major and low-major schools. They will continue to have a significant advantage.
What I'm optimistic about is that Marquette will come up with creative ways to help our athletes financially, and that our basketball coach will justify the confidence the university has shown in him by attracting, retaining and coaching up outstanding players.
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I’m not sure why some think alums need to be involved. Marquette should (or already has) Hire/start an NIL marketing agency and work to find deals for all of their players across various advertising segments across the country.
Heck the lowest and most easily attainable should be hooking our guys up with some instagram ads. Anyone with a decent social media following can do a deal there.
The reason is because while $250 here or $1,000 there is nice, the goal should be to create a significant floor for our scholarship players. The "if you come to Marquette, we will start you here and you can build on that" model. The smartest thing to do right now is move fast and break things.
The problem is Marquette doesn't typically go this route and seems to think waiting to see how things shake out before taking action is best. It's why recruits don't feel the same "love" on social media as they do from other fanbases; our administration made it clear while the NCAA was still figuring out social media rules that fans shouldn't tweet/respond/interact with recruits. Meanwhile, we're losing recruits to Illinois, Arkansas, and other programs whose fanbases deluge recruits with attention. The Muss Bus is a social media phenomenon and works while Marquette is still tut-tutting the method a decade after the NCAA made it clear they weren't going to do a damn thing.
The same applies now. If we want to succeed, we need to be at the front of this, getting our players paid as much as we can as fast as we can. Because if we wait, like we so often do, it will be too late by the time we decide to play the game.
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I hope you're right TAMU but I have my concerns. I'm afraid the hunger won't be there as much if everyone is getting paid. It could also lead to resentment if a player is not producing with a higher pay check.
Same arguments were used back in the day when free agency came to professional sports. They didn't hold out then.
I don't think thr pros play as hard until the playoffs. They're obviously way more talented but the tenacity is spotty.
What???
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panda
I agree that MU can solicit NIL from avenues outside of alums, but I would think starting close to home is how you build a foundation. I think the key thing for MU is that they only have support basketball via NIL and not football and basketball. As confident as I am as Shaka being the right guy, I more confident that MU will be successful in NIL game.
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So are the after game interviews going to be like Nascar now. I'd like to thank the Ford, M&M, GoDaddy, yada yada yada
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Wondering how soon it will take MU to set up a meet and greet with the players, charging for admittance, autographs, photos.
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So are the after game interviews going to be like Nascar now. I'd like to thank the Ford, M&M, GoDaddy, yada yada yada
Same banal word salad as thanking the lord and savior or wouldn't be here without my teammates or kept our head down and played "insert team here" basketball.
Might as well get paid for spouting bullcrap.
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Same banal word salad as thanking the lord and savior or wouldn't be here without my teammates or kept our head down and played "insert team here" basketball.
Might as well get paid for spouting bullcrap.
Thanking the Lord is bullcrap?
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Listening to people constantly thanking the Lord during post-game interviews is annoying.
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panda
I agree that MU can solicit NIL from avenues outside of alums, but I would think starting close to home is how you build a foundation. I think the key thing for MU is that they only have support basketball via NIL and not football and basketball. As confident as I am as Shaka being the right guy, I more confident that MU will be successful in NIL game.
Totally agree and I hope Marquette casts the same wide net we believe in. Marquette alum NIL deals are great but money is green wherever it comes from.
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Listening to people constantly thanking the Lord during post-game interviews is annoying.
I don't ever recall people "constantly thanking the Lord" during interviews. Usually the interviewee thanks the Lord once, then moves on. It's your prerogative to get annoyed, I guess. Sounds like a trivial thing to be annoyed by, IMO. You be you.
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The reason is because while $250 here or $1,000 there is nice, the goal should be to create a significant floor for our scholarship players. The "if you come to Marquette, we will start you here and you can build on that" model. The smartest thing to do right now is move fast and break things.
The problem is Marquette doesn't typically go this route and seems to think waiting to see how things shake out before taking action is best. It's why recruits don't feel the same "love" on social media as they do from other fanbases; our administration made it clear while the NCAA was still figuring out social media rules that fans shouldn't tweet/respond/interact with recruits. Meanwhile, we're losing recruits to Illinois, Arkansas, and other programs whose fanbases deluge recruits with attention. The Muss Bus is a social media phenomenon and works while Marquette is still tut-tutting the method a decade after the NCAA made it clear they weren't going to do a damn thing.
The same applies now. If we want to succeed, we need to be at the front of this, getting our players paid as much as we can as fast as we can. Because if we wait, like we so often do, it will be too late by the time we decide to play the game.
I fvcking hope we’re not losing recruits because of Twitter or Instagram “love”
Also, I haven’t seen anything to suggest Marquette or the alumni base is winning to step up with NIL money. Consider me in the concerned camp when it comes to MU’s NIL ability vs other schools
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I don't ever recall people "constantly thanking the Lord" during interviews. Usually the interviewee thanks the Lord once, then moves on. It's your prerogative to get annoyed, I guess. Sounds like a trivial thing to be annoyed by, IMO. You be you.
Not enough athletes blame the Lord when things go poorly, if you ask me.
"The kick was perfect, but Jesus pushed it into the upright."
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Not enough athletes blame the Lord when things go poorly, if you ask me.
"The kick was perfect, but Jesus pushed it into the upright."
(https://c.tenor.com/75hQmCodF_cAAAAC/office-space-unnatural carnal knowledgein-a.gif)
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The more I think about all of this I am concerned as well but I think Shaka has made his priority clear. He will focus *mostly* on 4 year guys that will have loyalty and will grow and develop within MU. Will there be transfers out if a guy that is borderline top 100 blows up his first year, sure...But I think in this new way of doing things it will be a rarity for MU to land top 50 guys...to land top transfer targets. Schools like UK/UNC/Duke were already doing this prior to it even being allowed...Now that it is allowed that only going to grow. Talent evaluation will be critical and Shaka has a tremendous track record there.
Wrightsil...I am not at all excited about currently TBH but if he ends up being a stud its just going to validate Shaka as a talent evaluator and make me alot more optimistic about MU's ability to thrive and survive with NIL and free agency.
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I fvcking hope we’re not losing recruits because of Twitter or Instagram “love”
Also, I haven’t seen anything to suggest Marquette or the alumni base is winning to step up with NIL money. Consider me in the concerned camp when it comes to MU’s NIL ability vs other schools
I can't say 100% that we are losing them for that reason, but I can say with 100% certainty that it was a concern of the previous staff. No doubt, I am not saying this as an opinion. And if Wojo and his assistants were running into issues because of it, I have no doubt it is something the current staff would like to see improved upon but because of Marquette's 2000s era approach to social media, it isn't happening.
I have seen things to indicate the alumni base is willing to step up. At least alumni that matter. But how quickly it happens and how organized it is are the main questions I have. This is something we need in place yesterday, but typically Marquette likes to sit on their hands for years and years and years and years before they start thinking about making a move, so paint me pessimistic that the Athletic Department/University side will do their part.
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I thought rule #1 was don't tweet at 'cruits?
I remember there was some super cringe tweet of a video of a 7 year old girl saying that Dawson should go to I4 because it would make her dad happy, that got shared here.
I have no doubt that the schools social media presence could improve, but shouldn't the general rule of thumb be that Shaka and the staff does the recruiting? If you're going to pony up a NIL offer for the player then sure, but otherwise, just leave it to the people whose job it is to recruit players.
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I can't say 100% that we are losing them for that reason, but I can say with 100% certainty that it was a concern of the previous staff. No doubt, I am not saying this as an opinion.
Seems like Wojo is even a bigger loser then I thought. Blaming losing recruits on Twitter or Instagram?
What a joke! That guy was the king of excuses
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Not enough athletes blame the Lord when things go poorly, if you ask me.
"The kick was perfect, but Jesus pushed it into the upright."
That’s my go to in my golf game.
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Didn't Jesus make Russell Wilson throw 4 picks in an NFC Championship game?
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I'm not sure about that but I believe he is the reason the Bears hired Nagy.
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Seems like Wojo is even a bigger loser then I thought. Blaming losing recruits on Twitter or Instagram?
What a joke! That guy was the king of excuses
Should have worried about keeping track of the score instead of worrying about losing recruits on Twitter and Instagram, a’ina?
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Didn't Jesus make Russell Wilson throw 4 picks in an NFC Championship game?
Jesus is a weird dude when it comes to deciding sporting events
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I thought rule #1 was don't tweet at 'cruits?
That's MARQUETTE's number one rule. Which has been enforced from Marquette's athletic administration for 10-15 years and I don't know of any other fanbase doing the same. Should the staff do the recruiting? Yes. But when you are a 17-year-old kid that is suddenly getting attention from the Muss Bus, or rabid Illinois fans, or whomever, it makes you feel wanted. So when Marquette's social media types are silent, that speaks just as many volumes as the tweets from other fanbases.
These are young athletes that have been raised in a society fueled by engagement. Then when Marquette's fanbase doesn't engage and everyone else does, we're supposed to look down our noses at those fanbases and the kids that care about the exact things the world society has built tells them are important? I often hear complaints about how the lower level sections at the Fiserv (aside from the students) tend to sit on their hands all game long. I'm not sure they are wrong, and we are the same on social media.
Personally, I still don't tweet at recruits. I do think there's some creep factor to it. But if there were 15-20 students that decided to make it a priority to interact with prospective recruits, to encourage them and show them Marquette has a passionate fanbase, I think that would be good for the program. We can look down at it all we want, I'm sure our sanctimony will really be effective when kids are committing elsewhere.
Seems like Wojo is even a bigger loser then I thought. Blaming losing recruits on Twitter or Instagram?
What a joke! That guy was the king of excuses
It wasn't Wojo, but interacting with recruits does have an impact. Especially those top tier recruits who are used to getting hundreds or thousands of views, likes, retweets, and interactions with everything they post. Personally, when I do a good job at something, I'm not one to overly toot my own horn, but I do remember the people that recognize the work I did. And I appreciate their appreciation. And when I do something well and someone ignores that work or forgets about it, it can be just as strong a statement. That's what this is.
There are different ways to do this, and I hate seeing fanbases turn when a recruit goes elsewhere (so you have to avoid the negative stuff, maybe having one person controlling 20-30 bot accounts is better), but Marquette's staunch refusal to move fast and break things was a mistake in the past, has hurt us in the past, and will continue to hurt us in the future if we approach NIL the same way.
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Seems like Wojo is even a bigger loser then I thought. Blaming losing recruits on Twitter or Instagram?
What a joke! That guy was the king of excuses
My thoughts exactly.
As it relates to NIL - Kids should get paid. However, a great solution would have been to take 10-20% of the total payroll of the coaching staff at schools and require that be kicked into an annuity fund for players. All scholarship players would then share equally in that income and be able to tap it after the age of 35.
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Right about what? What I've said is NIL was inevitable, and a positive step to compensate the athletes who make college sports possible. And that it won't be a "disaster" for college basketball.
Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc, already had a significant advantage over Marquette, and an enormous advantage over mid-major and low-major schools. They will continue to have a significant advantage.
What I'm optimistic about is that Marquette will come up with creative ways to help our athletes financially, and that our basketball coach will justify the confidence the university has shown in him by attracting, retaining and coaching up outstanding players.
Your last paragraph is what I’m talking about. I hope your optimism is well founded.
I’ll need to see it before I believe it. The theory could be tested immediately if Lewis somehow decides to go back to college. Will he transfer for $$$ or do “relationships” matter? We shall see.
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That's MARQUETTE's number one rule. Which has been enforced from Marquette's athletic administration for 10-15 years and I don't know of any other fanbase doing the same. Should the staff do the recruiting? Yes. But when you are a 17-year-old kid that is suddenly getting attention from the Muss Bus, or rabid Illinois fans, or whomever, it makes you feel wanted. So when Marquette's social media types are silent, that speaks just as many volumes as the tweets from other fanbases.
These are young athletes that have been raised in a society fueled by engagement. Then when Marquette's fanbase doesn't engage and everyone else does, we're supposed to look down our noses at those fanbases and the kids that care about the exact things the world society has built tells them are important? I often hear complaints about how the lower level sections at the Fiserv (aside from the students) tend to sit on their hands all game long. I'm not sure they are wrong, and we are the same on social media.
Personally, I still don't tweet at recruits. I do think there's some creep factor to it. But if there were 15-20 students that decided to make it a priority to interact with prospective recruits, to encourage them and show them Marquette has a passionate fanbase, I think that would be good for the program. We can look down at it all we want, I'm sure our sanctimony will really be effective when kids are committing elsewhere.
It wasn't Wojo, but interacting with recruits does have an impact. Especially those top tier recruits who are used to getting hundreds or thousands of views, likes, retweets, and interactions with everything they post. Personally, when I do a good job at something, I'm not one to overly toot my own horn, but I do remember the people that recognize the work I did. And I appreciate their appreciation. And when I do something well and someone ignores that work or forgets about it, it can be just as strong a statement. That's what this is.
There are different ways to do this, and I hate seeing fanbases turn when a recruit goes elsewhere (so you have to avoid the negative stuff, maybe having one person controlling 20-30 bot accounts is better), but Marquette's staunch refusal to move fast and break things was a mistake in the past, has hurt us in the past, and will continue to hurt us in the future if we approach NIL the same way.
When you say "Marquette's social media types", who are you referring to? If it's tweets from me, you and other random old people, I don't think they have an effect one way or another. If its from people officially associated with the University; i.e. getting former MU players currently affiliated with the NBA (although I would have to imagine that might be a recruiting violation) current or even recently graduated students, then maybe I could buy it.
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There are recruits who love getting hundreds/thousands of replies from fans when they post something (anything) on social media). There are recruits that are creeped out by it. There are recruits who don't give two squirts either way.
Marquette will be fine in NIL. They'll be behind the blue bloods as they have always been and a few other rando schools that find a way to pony up big (saw Miami-FL offered Nijel Pack $600K to transfer there), but we'll be in the next tier and competitive with or better than the majority of high major schools. And while buying talent helps, it is not the only way to win.
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There are recruits who love getting hundreds/thousands of replies from fans when they post something (anything) on social media). There are recruits that are creeped out by it. There are recruits who don't give two squirts either way.
Marquette will be fine in NIL. They'll be behind the blue bloods as they have always been and a few other rando schools that find a way to pony up big (saw Miami-FL offered Nijel Pack $600K to transfer there), but we'll be in the next tier and competitive with or better than the majority of high major schools. And while buying talent helps, it is not the only way to win.
TAMU,
You could be right. But MU has had some unheralded recruits turn out to be pretty damn good over the last 20 years and I hate to think what some of them would have done after their 1st or 2nd years with NIL and immediate transfer.
Wade, Butler, Crowder, Deiner, Novak,Markus, etc. MU has to be ready to step up or they will not even have the success we have seen in the last 20 years and for many people that isn’t even considered real success.
Come on MU NIL department/fundraisers/organizers/what ever you want to call them! Get the job done!
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There are recruits who love getting hundreds/thousands of replies from fans when they post something (anything) on social media). There are recruits that are creeped out by it. There are recruits who don't give two squirts either way.
Marquette will be fine in NIL. They'll be behind the blue bloods as they have always been and a few other rando schools that find a way to pony up big (saw Miami-FL offered Nijel Pack $600K to transfer there), but we'll be in the next tier and competitive with or better than the majority of high major schools. And while buying talent helps, it is not the only way to win.
Does he still get a scholarship? If so is that counted as taxable income?
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Scholarships up to the cost of attendance are tax-exempt regardless of income level.
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Does he still get a scholarship? If so is that counted as taxable income?
Yes he still gets the scholarship. The scholarship is not taxable. The $600K is taxable
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TAMU,
You could be right. But MU has had some unheralded recruits turn out to be pretty damn good over the last 20 years and I hate to think what some of them would have done after their 1st or 2nd years with NIL and immediate transfer.
Wade, Butler, Crowder, Deiner, Novak,Markus, etc. MU has to be ready to step up or they will not even have the success we have seen in the last 20 years and for many people that isn’t even considered real success.
Come on MU NIL department/fundraisers/organizers/what ever you want to call them! Get the job done!
I think that's why it was wise to hire a coach like Shaka. I think most years we will retain our best players.
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The way I see it, Shaka will build a team via 2,3 and 4-year guys and develop them on a year over year basis. IMO, these are the type of guys that are not going to need break the bank money and $100-300k could change their lives. If you have a breakout recruit come in, if the program is successful, having a high priced free agent for a year or two likely can be handled.
IMO, the one downside to the NIL for the players is I can see schools cut bait on poor performing guys quickly. The last thing a program needs is an overpaid, underperforming player. I believe the free agent market is going to get far crazier a year from now and programs that have stability will do very well.
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I think that's why it was wise to hire a coach like Shaka. I think most years we will retain our best players.
$600k-$2 million says otherwise. He may be able to hold on to the average college player just happy to get a free education and play college bball. The goal is to be elite again. Holding on to future pros that will develop under him and lead us to an occasional final four will be the test. Hopefully he is good at hypnotizing players (“look into my eyes, money is bad, relationships are good”).
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$600k-$2 million says otherwise. He may be able to hold on to the average college player just happy to get a free education and play college bball. The goal is to be elite again. Holding on to future pros that will develop under him and lead us to an occasional final four will be the test. Hopefully he is good at hypnotizing players (“look into my eyes, money is bad, relationships are good”).
I think most of the offers come after a player expresses a desire to look elsewhere. I think Shaka will be good about keeping them here.
The 600K offers are rare. I don't think our guys will be targeted very often
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There are recruits who love getting hundreds/thousands of replies from fans when they post something (anything) on social media). There are recruits that are creeped out by it. There are recruits who don't give two squirts either way.
Marquette will be fine in NIL. They'll be behind the blue bloods as they have always been and a few other rando schools that find a way to pony up big (saw Miami-FL offered Nijel Pack $600K to transfer there), but we'll be in the next tier and competitive with or better than the majority of high major schools. And while buying talent helps, it is not the only way to win.
I call B.S. on stating Miami offered Nijel Pack 600K to transfer there. That is in direct violation of Florida law.
Florida statute:
An intercollegiate athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of her or his name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the athlete’s name, image, or likeness. To preserve the integrity, quality, character, and amateur nature of intercollegiate athletics and to maintain a clear separation between amateur intercollegiate athletics and professional sports, such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution.
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We're doomed.
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TAMU,
You could be right. But MU has had some unheralded recruits turn out to be pretty damn good over the last 20 years and I hate to think what some of them would have done after their 1st or 2nd years with NIL and immediate transfer.
Wade, Butler, Crowder, Deiner, Novak,Markus, etc. MU has to be ready to step up or they will not even have the success we have seen in the last 20 years and for many people that isn’t even considered real success.
Come on MU NIL department/fundraisers/organizers/what ever you want to call them! Get the job done!
how many gum drops you tossin’ in?
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how many gum drops you tossin’ in?
That’s part of the problem. I agree. My gum drops are going to MU in the form of tuition. When that is done and my others are through with their education (wherever they go) I’ll be in a better position to share with the players.
But my contribution will be small change. We’ll need big money to keep the future all-Americans Shaka is going to coach up!
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I call B.S. on stating Miami offered Nijel Pack 600K to transfer there. That is in direct violation of Florida law.
Florida statute:
An intercollegiate athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of her or his name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the athlete’s name, image, or likeness. To preserve the integrity, quality, character, and amateur nature of intercollegiate athletics and to maintain a clear separation between amateur intercollegiate athletics and professional sports, such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution.
I'm sure that if the offer was made, it was made in a way that does not violate Florida Law. I'm certain that you are aware that there are ways around laws like this.
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I'm sure that if the offer was made, it was made in a way that does not violate Florida Law. I'm certain that you are aware that there are ways around laws like this.
I would like to see this source. Do I think once he gets on campus, some donor will get a nice bag of cash for him? Of course. I question the 600K, as well as you stating Miami offered it to him, especially prior to him enrolling.
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Thanking the Lord is bullcrap?
For putting up stats on a sports box score, yes.
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I would like to see this source. Do I think once he gets on campus, some donor will get a nice bag of cash for him? Of course. I question the 600K, as well as you stating Miami offered it to him, especially prior to him enrolling.
hey man, hoop at Marquette. $200k education. Fiserv Forum. Sweet charter flights with unlimited Subway subs and Gatorade. And, and, Coach Shaka says all the swag you want.
What’s that? You need $600k? Welp…I can get you $10k from Billybob’s Chevrolet here in town, and $20k from Fake Chili Is Us. But ya gotta eat 10 bowls every non game-day Saturdays at noon. Might be able to squeeze $10g from Farmboy Cheese Curds….that ain’t bad, and Joey here will do your homework! We good?
NIL is a beautiful thing, brahs.
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I would like to see this source. Do I think once he gets on campus, some donor will get a nice bag of cash for him? Of course. I question the 600K, as well as you stating Miami offered it to him, especially prior to him enrolling.
When I said Miami offered I didn't mean that the University directly offered him. I meant that someone who wanted him to go to Miami made it known to him that he could make that amount of money in NIL should he choose to go there.
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hey man, hoop at Marquette. $200k education. Fiserv Forum. Sweet charter flights with unlimited Subway subs and Gatorade. And, and, Coach Shaka says all the swag you want.
What’s that? You need $600k? Welp…I can get you $10k from Billybob’s Chevrolet here in town, and $20k from Fake Chili Is Us. But ya gotta eat 10 bowls every non game-day Saturdays at noon. Might be able to squeeze $10g from Farmboy Cheese Curds….that ain’t bad, and Joey here will do your homework! We good?
NIL is a beautiful thing, brahs.
Capitalism is a beautiful thing! If you hate the NIL, you are probably a communist.
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I call B.S. on stating Miami offered Nijel Pack 600K to transfer there. That is in direct violation of Florida law.
Florida statute:
An intercollegiate athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of her or his name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the athlete’s name, image, or likeness. To preserve the integrity, quality, character, and amateur nature of intercollegiate athletics and to maintain a clear separation between amateur intercollegiate athletics and professional sports, such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution.
F anti-capitalist FLA
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Capitalism is a beautiful thing! If you hate the NIL, you are probably a communist.
own my own biz. Love capitalism. I’m set thanks to…me. Just havin’ fun. Lighten up bro. F’in A so serious all the time.
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Capitalism is a beautiful thing! If you hate the NIL, you are probably a communist.
Probably why the Badgers have no NIL deals.
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own my own biz. Love capitalism. I’m set thanks to…me. Just havin’ fun. Lighten up bro. F’in A so serious all the time.
BS you Socialist b*t*h
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own my own biz. Love capitalism. I’m set thanks to…me. Just havin’ fun. Lighten up bro. F’in A so serious all the time.
TAMU was joking.
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BS you Socialist b*t*h
thats a flagrant. 2 shots, side out.
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thats a flagrant. 2 shots, side out.
As soft as Joey
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As soft as Joey
now that’s soft! Me? I like the contact. Stir it up. See who takes the bait. You are.
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When I said Miami offered I didn't mean that the University directly offered him. I meant that someone who wanted him to go to Miami made it known to him that he could make that amount of money in NIL should he choose to go there.
Thats still a violation under the NCAA and Florida law. Where's this source stating a specific amount?
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I’m set thanks to…me.
Hahaha
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Thats still a violation under the NCAA and Florida law. Where's this source stating a specific amount?
It was something I was told. And again, you and I both know that there are ways around it. I'm sure that if the offer happened, it was done in a way that didn't violate the letter of the law, even if it did violate the spirit of the law.
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It was something I was told. And again, you and I both know that there are ways around it. I'm sure that if the offer happened, it was done in a way that didn't violate the letter of the law, even if it did violate the spirit of the law.
If the prospective athlete is not enrolled in the school, its an illegal inducement under Florida law. Whether or not they enforce it, that's another story. Same with the NCAA. From what you described its a pay to play, which is against Fl law, and NCAA regs, especially if a dollar amount was given. What I make up about that, is that what you were told is not exactly what happened.
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Thats still a violation under the NCAA and Florida law.
If the prospective athlete is not enrolled in the school, its an illegal inducement under Florida law.
Oh that's adorable!
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If the prospective athlete is not enrolled in the school, its an illegal inducement under Florida law. Whether or not they enforce it, that's another story. Same with the NCAA. From what you described its a pay to play, which is against Fl law, and NCAA regs, especially if a dollar amount was given. What I make up about that, is that what you were told is not exactly what happened.
That's fine. I think you are overestimating the difficulty of a non university entity communicating how much a recruit could make without violating a law and a regulation that has yet to be enforced
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That's fine. I think you are overestimating the difficulty of a non university entity communicating how much a recruit could make without violating a law and a regulation that has yet to be enforced
I don't think I'm not. I have no doubt that these won't be enforced by Florida. The NCAA states they are investigating some of these deals, but I won't hold my breath.
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Oh that's adorable!
It might be adorable to you, but that's the law.
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I will stop being a college basketball fan before I would give any of my money for an NIL.
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I will stop being a college basketball fan before I would give any of my money for an NIL.
::) OK...
But no one is going to force you to do this you know.
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I will stop being a college basketball fan before I would give any of my money for an NIL.
Also, you wouldn't give money to NIL. You would give money to a charity. Occasionally a student athlete will get paid to promote the charity though NIL.
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I will stop being a college basketball NBA minor league fan before I would give any of my money for an NIL.
There, I fixed it for you.
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I think that's why it was wise to hire a coach like Shaka. I think most years we will retain our best players.
...that don't have stand out seasons for if they do they're off to "greener pastures".
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Also, you wouldn't give money to NIL. You would give money to a charity. Occasionally a student athlete will get paid to promote the charity though NIL.
I do donate to charities, which no longer include MU. I have given enough to MU over the years. I do not like the NIL. Not because I do not think the players deserve the money. It is because it will just make the blue bloods more dominate.
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hey man, hoop at Marquette. $200k education. Fiserv Forum. Sweet charter flights with unlimited Subway subs and Gatorade. And, and, Coach Shaka says all the swag you want.
What’s that? You need $600k? Welp…I can get you $10k from Billybob’s Chevrolet here in town, and $20k from Fake Chili Is Us. But ya gotta eat 10 bowls every non game-day Saturdays at noon. Might be able to squeeze $10g from Farmboy Cheese Curds….that ain’t bad, and Joey here will do your homework! We good?
NIL is a beautiful thing, brahs.
now that was funny right there v-man! i could party with this dude!
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So how is the Miami Coach going to bench a 600k kid if he is not playing well. How will the 600k kid react to boos if the team is not winning while he is having an ESPN highlight every game. What pressure will the "consortium" that paid the 600k put on the coach to make their guy shine even at the expense of the other players?
As you can tell I'm not a big fan of this new reality and see no benefit for Marquette basketball.
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So how is the Miami Coach going to bench a 600k kid if he is not playing well. How will the 600k kid react to boos if the team is not winning while he is having an ESPN highlight every game. What pressure will the "consortium" that paid the 600k put on the coach to make their guy shine even at the expense of the other players?
As you can tell I'm not a big fan of this new reality and see no benefit for Marquette basketball.
Yep. And how are his teammates going to react to this potential situation?
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So how is the Miami Coach going to bench a 600k kid if he is not playing well.
By waiting for the next stoppage of play and subbing in another player? What is stopping him?
How will the 600k kid react to boos if the team is not winning while he is having an ESPN highlight every game.
The same way any other player would?
What pressure will the "consortium" that paid the 600k put on the coach to make their guy shine even at the expense of the other players?
None? These guys don't actually expect ROI beyond the player committing to their alma mater.
Yep. And how are his teammates going to react to this potential situation?
The way they would when any other teammate isn't playing as well as they are supposed to?
I must have missed all the pro teams that are incapable of playing together because one of them makes more money than the rest of them.
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So how is the Miami Coach going to bench a 600k kid if he is not playing well. How will the 600k kid react to boos if the team is not winning while he is having an ESPN highlight every game. What pressure will the "consortium" that paid the 600k put on the coach to make their guy shine even at the expense of the other players?
As you can tell I'm not a big fan of this new reality and see no benefit for Marquette basketball.
Huh? Are you just being sarcastic?
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By waiting for the next stoppage of play and subbing in another player? What is stopping him?
The same way any other player would?
None? These guys don't actually expect ROI beyond the player committing to their alma mater.
The way they would when any other teammate isn't playing as well as they are supposed to?
I must have missed all the pro teams that are incapable of playing together because one of them makes more money than the rest of them.
I think it's different for thr pros because every player on the team that plays is a multimillionaire
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I think it's different for thr pros because every player on the team that plays is a multimillionaire
So human beings are incapable of working together with people who make more money than them until they hit the multi millionaire threshold?
I wasn't aware that every job in America paid all of their employees equally.
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I'm honestly curious about the logic here. Is the argument that college athletes are too fragile? Too dumb? Too selfish? What is it about college athletes that make them the only people in the country who are incapable of handling being paid for their services/incapable of working with people who get compensated more or less than they do?
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So human beings are incapable of working together with people who make more money than them until they hit the multi millionaire threshold?
I wasn't aware that every job in America paid all of their employees equally.
I think you're overlooking the age of these kids and the overall dynamic. I could be wrong but I think there would be some resentment in a number of situations. Especially from upperclassmen. And in football I think it will be much more difficult.
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I think you're overlooking the age of these kids and the overall dynamic. I could be wrong but I think there would be some resentment in a number of situations. Especially from upperclassmen. And in football I think it will be much more difficult.
So they are too young to handle someone making more money than them? Old enough to die for their county but too immature to be on the same team as a guy with a higher paycheck? That seems like a stretch.
Sure there will be resentment. There was resentment when NIL wasn't a thing! There are 70 year olds who resent others who are making more than they are. That never stops. I have a lot more faith in college athletes and their coaches to not let some resentment get in the way of performance.
I get arguments about competitive balance and NIL. They don't sway me personally but they at least make sense. These arguments of college kids can't handle making money just seem condescending and nonsensical to me
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I think you're overlooking the age of these kids and the overall dynamic. I could be wrong but I think there would be some resentment in a number of situations. Especially from upperclassmen. And in football I think it will be much more difficult.
You don't think Dominic James enjoyed certain perks that Dwight Burke did not? Fist bumps from dudes on campus, attention from girls at parties, free drinks from bartenders at Murphs? The DBs of the world know their place.
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So they are too young to handle someone making more money than them? Old enough to die for their county but too immature to be on the same team as a guy with a higher paycheck? That seems like a stretch.
Sure there will be resentment. There was resentment when NIL wasn't a thing! There are 70 year olds who resent others who are making more than they are. That never stops. I have a lot more faith in college athletes and their coaches to not let some resentment get in the way of performance.
I get arguments about competitive balance and NIL. They don't sway me personally but they at least make sense. These arguments of college kids can't handle making money just seem condescending and nonsensical to me
I understand your point but it's not like getting free room and board and the opportunity to earn a degree is nothing financially.
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I understand your point but it's not like getting free room and board and the opportunity to earn a degree is nothing financially.
Did I say it was?
So you're comfortable with a governing body artificially limiting someone's earning potential by hundreds of thousands simply because some of their teammates might resent them for making more than they do? Are you a capitalist?
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I'm honestly curious about the logic here. Is the argument that college athletes are too fragile? Too dumb? Too selfish? What is it about college athletes that make them the only people in the country who are incapable of handling being paid for their services/incapable of working with people who get compensated more or less than they do?
If they are being paid then why the scholarship (I'm practically choking on the word)? It could go to a kid that actually wants to get an education; which was the point but apparently no longer is.
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If they are being paid then why the scholarship (I'm practically choking on the word)? It could go to a kid that actually wants to get an education; which was the point but apparently no longer is.
Because the scholarship is part of the compensation package (as it always has been).
You question is akin to asking "If we're paying a salary, why pay for expenses?"
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If they are being paid then why the scholarship (I'm practically choking on the word)? It could go to a kid that actually wants to get an education; which was the point but apparently no longer is.
Out of curiosity, do you also oppose the job I got while on scholarship so I could buy groceries and maybe go out once in a while?
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If they are being paid then why the scholarship (I'm practically choking on the word)? It could go to a kid that actually wants to get an education; which was the point but apparently no longer is.
So people can't earn money and get an education too? These arguments are nonsense.
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If they are being paid then why the scholarship (I'm practically choking on the word)? It could go to a kid that actually wants to get an education; which was the point but apparently no longer is.
Because the scholarship is how they get "paid" by the university. NIL is like a part time job that they get on their own.
You forget that the vast majority of college athletes won't make nearly enough from NIL to cover their scholarship.
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I think it's different for thr pros because every player on the team that plays is a multimillionaire
Not accurate.
I think you're overlooking the age of these kids and the overall dynamic. I could be wrong but I think there would be some resentment in a number of situations. Especially from upperclassmen. And in football I think it will be much more difficult.
I am old enough to remember similar statements about professional athletes when free agency first took off. Too young to have that much money. They won't be able to work together because of the compensation differences. They will play for the money and become lazy on the court.
They were all nonsense then and are nonsense now.
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Out of curiosity, do you also oppose the job I got while on scholarship so I could buy groceries and maybe go out once in a while?
play here, and I’ll pay you w/no-cost tuition, room/board & books. We’ll travel free to Hawaii. Orlando…even a free bus ride to Dane County!! You want a job to earn spending $? Good on ya. Ham & Egger II just opened and looking for staff.
(Chill please. Just hackin’)
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College kids get jealous when a first team all American dominates the ball.
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Dear Shaka:
I am going to transfer because other players make more NIL money than I do.
Sincerely
A Player.
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I'm honestly curious about the logic here. Is the argument that college athletes are too fragile? Too dumb? Too selfish? What is it about college athletes that make them the only people in the country who are incapable of handling being paid for their services/incapable of working with people who get compensated more or less than they do?
It’s grasping at straws.
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It’s grasping at straws.
And it's a fundamental lack of understanding that college students already have classmates that have more, and make more than they do. And they get along just fine. In my experience, those jealousies are worse among older adults than college students.
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And it's a fundamental lack of understanding that college students already have classmates that have more, and make more than they do. And they get along just fine. In my experience, those jealousies are worse among older adults than college students.
It’s my experience the people that work harder to match or exceed what their peers are getting tend to be much more productive for you. If you’re surrounded by those who pout about it, you’re doomed to failure anyway. That’s part of being a coach, finding the guys that are the former, not the latter
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And it's a fundamental lack of understanding that college students already have classmates that have more, and make more than they do. And they get along just fine. In my experience, those jealousies are worse among older adults than college students.
but I think you’ll agree that NIL could create issues within the team that the HC has to be aware of. Does player B become jealous of player A making bank. Does player B feel he should get what A is getting, which then creates division. How does A relate to his teammates? Entitled? How does A relate to his coach? All may be just fine, but there must be an awareness on behalf of the coaches, I would think.
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but I think you’ll agree that NIL could create issues within the team that the HC has to be aware of. Does player B become jealous of player A making bank. Does player B feel he should get what A is getting, which then creates division. How does A relate to his teammates? Entitled? How does A relate to his coach? All may be just fine, but there must be an awareness on behalf of the coaches, I would think.
There has to be an awareness from coaches about a bunch of team-related things. I'm not saying NIL is going to cause NO issues, but I just don't think it's the big deal that Mugs or MU69 think it is.
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And it's a fundamental lack of understanding that college students already have classmates that have more, and make more than they do. And they get along just fine. In my experience, those jealousies are worse among older adults than college students.
And worst even it's older adults projecting that jealousy onto college students.
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Most are stating it will cause few if any problems. I think it could but I hope I'm wrong. I also believe it's not analogous to the every day working world. You could have situations where many players believe they deserve way more money than they'll get and therefore decide to forego college hoops entirely. You may have teams buy guys with essentially unlimited resources.
The huge schools have an enormous advantage. To suggest this will play out seamlessly like they're capatalists working a 9 to 5 job is a stretch imo.
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There has to be an awareness from coaches about a bunch of team-related things. I'm not saying NIL is going to cause NO issues, but I just don't think it's the big deal that Mugs or MU69 think it is.
They probably need to stop calling it NIL money. Those paying NIL money now don't really seem to be doing it to get an ROI. Might as well just allow pay to play.
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I think Justin will get drafted in the 45-60 range.
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Most are stating it will cause few if any problems. I think it could but I hope I'm wrong. I also believe it's not analogous to the every day working world. You could have situations where many players believe they deserve way more money than they'll get and therefore decide to forego college hoops entirely. You may have teams buy guys with essentially unlimited resources.
The huge schools have an enormous advantage. To suggest this will play out seamlessly like they're capatalists working a 9 to 5 job is a stretch imo.
I really can’t see how this is different from the working world. People are paid the value that they bring.
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Most are stating it will cause few if any problems. I think it could but I hope I'm wrong. I also believe it's not analogous to the every day working world. You could have situations where many players believe they deserve way more money than they'll get and therefore decide to forego college hoops entirely. You may have teams buy guys with essentially unlimited resources.
The huge schools have an enormous advantage. To suggest this will play out seamlessly like they're capatalists working a 9 to 5 job is a stretch imo.
Competitive balance concerns are legitimate. I'm not personally swayed by that argument but it will further separate high majors from low and mid majors.
It's the, "they can't handle making money or working with others who make more than them" arguments that are looney tunes to me.
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Competitive balance concerns are legitimate. I'm not personally swayed by that argument but it will further separate high majors from low and mid majors.
It's the, "they can't handle making money or working with others who make more than them" arguments that are looney tunes to me.
I thought maybe those paying the NIL would be putting pressure on the coaches to play those players more, but that doesn't really seem to be a legitimate concern.
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I really can’t see how this is different from the working world. People are paid the value that they bring.
That's not how it's going to work necessarily. But if that's how it's done, and players are actually paid by their merit or value, how do you determine that exactly before they step on the court? Or should they get paid after the season? Won't some players immediately transfer to schools that pay them more after a good season? As far aa I know there is no cap.
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Competitive balance concerns are legitimate. I'm not personally swayed by that argument but it will further separate high majors from low and mid majors.
It's the, "they can't handle making money or working with others who make more than them" arguments that are looney tunes to me.
That's not what I'm saying. But if you want to go down that road and look at this in a more macro and nuanced way would you say that kids getting paid big money are more or less likely to go to class and earn a college degree? And if they're less likely, or have no interest, what's the purpose of them getting free tuition or boarding on campus?
Meanwhile, isn't it true that 1/2 of all NBA players go broke? So maybe within the university system theire should be programs designed to help these young athletes deal with fiduciary responsibilities and future investment growth? Perhaps they wouldn't have leeches once they get to the pros?
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I mean we know the better players have been receiving money, etc has in college basketball for the past 50-60 years. Why would it all of a sudden be a chemistry problem now?
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but I think you’ll agree that NIL could create issues within the team that the HC has to be aware of. Does player B become jealous of player A making bank. Does player B feel he should get what A is getting, which then creates division. How does A relate to his teammates? Entitled? How does A relate to his coach? All may be just fine, but there must be an awareness on behalf of the coaches, I would think.
Do you have issues with anyone in your company making more than you do?
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Based on Shakas signing’s so far he is bringing in people who he thinks he can develop into high level talent. They have not necessarily been the type that MU has to make sure are paid big dollars immediately upon arrival. That is ok if MU is ready and willing for Phase 2.
Phase 2 with this strategy is MU alums/business leaders in Milwaukee who are willing to step up when it matters, after the players become good to great college players. Justin is a good example of this. Hopefully the powers that be have a nice package waiting for him if he decides not to go pro. I would hate to become the triple A team for the big boys.
At least in prior years we didn’t have to worry about our best players (diamonds in the rough) leaving for anywhere but the pros. The way it is set up now we could be a farm team if we’re not ready.
MU was always in this position when compared to the Kentuckys of the world on initial recruitment of players as people incessantly point out. In that way nothing has changed. But they weren’t necessarily in this position after MU had them in the fold. The new rules give the big boys another chance to keep lesser programs from reaching their potential.
Overall point, I eagerly await MUs and the MU community’s response to this. The recruiting strategy could pay off big time if we are willing to pay big $$$$ in Phase 2. If not our next Wade will be in the Final Four for another team.
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Do you have issues with anyone in your company making more than you do?
I didn’t say ‘me’. Personally, I don’t have an issue. I state that it might be an issue on a team that a coach might need to address. Might. That’s all. Might.
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Because the scholarship is how they get "paid" by the university. NIL is like a part time job that they get on their own.
You forget that the vast majority of college athletes won't make nearly enough from NIL to cover their scholarship.
...to get an education. The kid that gets 500k does not need the scholarship he can pay his own way for the courses required to play basketball.
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...to get an education. The kid that gets 500k does not need the scholarship he can pay his own way for the courses required to play basketball.
No, they get "paid" to play basketball for the university.
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...to get an education. The kid that gets 500k does not need the scholarship he can pay his own way for the courses required to play basketball.
So why can kids on an academic scholarship of the same value make money off of their talents while you don’t say a word ?
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That's not how it's going to work necessarily. But if that's how it's done, and players are actually paid by their merit or value, how do you determine that exactly before they step on the court?
How do you exactly determine the value of an employee before you hire them?
Won't some players immediately transfer to schools that pay them more after a good season? As far aa I know there is no cap.
Yes. And that will lead to players from that school transferring to other schools where they have better opportunities. Circle of life.
That's not what I'm saying. But if you want to go down that road and look at this in a more macro and nuanced way would you say that kids getting paid big money are more or less likely to go to class and earn a college degree? And if they're less likely, or have no interest, what's the purpose of them getting free tuition or boarding on campus?
I think NIL increases the likelihood that more players stay in school and earn their degrees. I think it is concerning that you seem to think this little of college athletes that because some of them will have some extra money that they will suddenly lose all interest in an education.
Meanwhile, isn't it true that 1/2 of all NBA players go broke? So maybe within the university system theire should be programs designed to help these young athletes deal with fiduciary responsibilities and future investment growth? Perhaps they wouldn't have leeches once they get to the pros?
Many universities do offer programs like this for the athletes. I would say that this is another argument for NIL as well. Its one thing to learn about managing wealth when you don't have it yet and another to learn about it when you do. It also increases their earnings window.
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I really can’t see how this is different from the working world. People are paid the value that they bring.
That's not actually how the working world works.
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I think it's different for thr pros because every player on the team that plays is a multimillionaire
Not every pro playing is a multimillionaire or even being paid millions.
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Based on Shakas signing’s so far he is bringing in people who he thinks he can develop into high level talent. They have not necessarily been the type that MU has to make sure are paid big dollars immediately upon arrival. That is ok if MU is ready and willing for Phase 2.
Phase 2 with this strategy is MU alums/business leaders in Milwaukee who are willing to step up when it matters, after the players become good to great college players. Justin is a good example of this. Hopefully the powers that be have a nice package waiting for him if he decides not to go pro. I would hate to become the triple A team for the big boys.
At least in prior years we didn’t have to worry about our best players (diamonds in the rough) leaving for anywhere but the pros. The way it is set up now we could be a farm team if we’re not ready.
MU was always in this position when compared to the Kentuckys of the world on initial recruitment of players as people incessantly point out. In that way nothing has changed. But they weren’t necessarily in this position after MU had them in the fold. The new rules give the big boys another chance to keep lesser programs from reaching their potential.
Overall point, I eagerly await MUs and the MU community’s response to this. The recruiting strategy could pay off big time if we are willing to pay big $$$$ in Phase 2. If not our next Wade will be in the Final Four for another team.
If Justin doesn't stay in the draft, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if he transferred elsewhere for a big payday.
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Yeah. Maybe go to Duke or NC. Worked out well for Theo and Garcia.
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Theo went to a final 4. It worked out great for him.
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Yeah. Maybe go to Duke or NC. Worked out well for Theo and Garcia.
How it could potentially work out (really well for Theo, not well for Dawson, for example) isn’t really the point.
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Theo went to a final 4. It worked out great for him.
Eh...i get it's an experience...and COVID was an issue for going overseas...but i don't see how theo increased his value. No clue what he'll make overseas...but the opportunity cost was pretty high, imho.
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Eh...i get it's an experience...and COVID was an issue for going overseas...but i don't see how theo increased his value. No clue what he'll make overseas...but the opportunity cost was pretty high, imho.
He was a contributor to a Final Four team. That's pretty awesome. He has a lifetime to worry about his value, but had one shot at a Final Four.
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Eh...i get it's an experience...and COVID was an issue for going overseas...but i don't see how theo increased his value. No clue what he'll make overseas...but the opportunity cost was pretty high, imho.
It was one season of overseas play. He got a Duke education, access to the Duke alumni network for both basketball and academia, and played in a FF. All that could easily equal, and likely surpass, the $75-80K he probably would have made this season in a mid or lower level Euro league. And that's not considering the mitigating factors of COVID
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That's not actually how the working world works.
Of course it is. At least the perceived value they are expected to bring.
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If Justin doesn't stay in the draft, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if he transferred elsewhere for a big payday.
That is the concern. Losing our best players every year to big pay days would seriously dampen enthusiasm around the program. Season tickets would go down the crapper.
Let’s hope that is not the case.
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That's not how it's going to work necessarily. But if that's how it's done, and players are actually paid by their merit or value, how do you determine that exactly before they step on the court? Or should they get paid after the season? Won't some players immediately transfer to schools that pay them more after a good season? As far aa I know there is no cap.
Employers assume value when they hire someone for a certain salary. If they don't perform well, they are fired. How is this different?
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I call B.S. on stating Miami offered Nijel Pack 600K to transfer there. That is in direct violation of Florida law.
Florida statute:
An intercollegiate athlete at a postsecondary educational institution may earn compensation for the use of her or his name, image, or likeness. Such compensation must be commensurate with the market value of the authorized use of the athlete’s name, image, or likeness. To preserve the integrity, quality, character, and amateur nature of intercollegiate athletics and to maintain a clear separation between amateur intercollegiate athletics and professional sports, such compensation may not be provided in exchange for athletic performance or attendance at a particular institution and may only be provided by a third party unaffiliated with the intercollegiate athlete’s postsecondary educational institution.
You were right on Pack being offered $600k. It was actually $800K and a car
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Yeah. Maybe go to Duke or NC. Worked out well for Theo and Garcia.
He would risk not being a starter at those schools.
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No, they get "paid" to play basketball for the university.
Then why go through the charade of taking classes?
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Then why go through the charade of taking classes?
I don’t know. I wondered the same thing in the 90s when I was in school.
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Then why go through the charade of taking classes?
It’s required. And maybe, and just hear me out here, they want to be in college.
You fail to understand that people can go to school, play basketball AND earn income. Why is that hard to figure out?
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Eh...i get it's an experience...and COVID was an issue for going overseas...but i don't see how theo increased his value. No clue what he'll make overseas...but the opportunity cost was pretty high, imho.
I am assuming he got some kind of degree from Duke. That increases his value outside of basketball. I would also assume playing a year at Duke also increases his basketball ability.
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You were right on Pack being offered $600k. It was actually $800K and a car
I was wrong. Although I still think its a pay to play
Edit to add: Did Pack take his name out of the NBA draft? I think it would be great if he stayed in the draft. Easy way to pocket 800K.
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I wonder if some NIL money will eventually dry up. How long will alumni or local business fans chip in NIL money for the non-blue blood schools when the NCAA tournament going forward is going to be dominated by the blue bloods?
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Then why go through the charade of taking classes?
Why do you assume it is a charade?
The school gets a basketball player. They pay the basketball player with a scholarship which is valuable for the player. The player can now also earn money on the side.
It's no different than what non athlete college students have been doing forever... expect the athletes NIL is way more valuable than most non athletes
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I wonder if some NIL money will eventually dry up. How long will alumni or local business fans chip in NIL money for the non-blue blood schools when the NCAA tournament going forward is going to be dominated by the blue bloods?
Such a chicken little.
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You were right on Pack being offered $600k. It was actually $800K and a car
Wow. This does eliminate the need to go g-league or Europe/Australia that’s for sure.
You would need a crap load of disposable income as a company/individual to do this regularly/yearly for different players. It’s not like this can be used as a tax break (or can it?).
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Wow. This does eliminate the need to go g-league or Europe/Australia that’s for sure.
You would need a crap load of disposable income as a company/individual to do this regularly/yearly for different players. It’s not like this can be used as a tax break (or can it?).
Would assume a company can write that off as marketing expenses since the athlete is supposed to be promoting there product or service. But I’m no tax guy
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I know it’s not remotely realistic but I wish every player could get paid a solid but equal amount, which would remove the worst case scenarios for a lot of schools (IE excellent recruiting and development only to see the player bolt for the cash elsewhere).
This is much more likely to happen TO us than to our benefit.
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This is much more likely to happen TO us than to our benefit.
I don' think this will prove to be true. Whenever we snag a Tyler Kolek or Zach Wrightsil, that is us doing this to someone else.
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I don' think this will prove to be true. Whenever we snag a Tyler Kolek or Zach Wrightsil, that is us doing this to someone else.
Ha! TAMU those types of players get us this years result. Maybe. Without Lewis we don’t even get there. Lewis stayed because of no track record. Let’s not be obtuse. This is a real danger unless MU alums step up. Lewis would be a great test case this year if he doesn’t go pro.
This is serious money. I don’t see us paying it. You do and I hope you are right. Minor league college ball will be way less interesting.
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Ha! TAMU those types of players get us this years result. Maybe. Without Lewis we don’t even get there. Lewis stayed because of no track record. Let’s not be obtuse. This is a real danger unless MU alums step up. Lewis would be a great test case this year if he doesn’t go pro.
This is serious money. I don’t see us paying it. You do and I hope you are right. Minor league college ball will be way less interesting.
Oh hell no, we will never pay this level of money. But no, not every good player who ever plays for Marquette will transfer because they might make more money elsewhere.
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I wonder if some NIL money will eventually dry up. How long will alumni or local business fans chip in NIL money for the non-blue blood schools when the NCAA tournament going forward is going to be dominated by the blue bloods?
This guy's well is pretty deep. He's just getting started.
https://businessofcollegesports.com/name-image-likeness/tracking-lifewallets-mission-to-sign-10-million-in-nil-deals/ (https://businessofcollegesports.com/name-image-likeness/tracking-lifewallets-mission-to-sign-10-million-in-nil-deals/)
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Ha! TAMU those types of players get us this years result. Maybe. Without Lewis we don’t even get there. Lewis stayed because of no track record. Let’s not be obtuse. This is a real danger unless MU alums step up. Lewis would be a great test case this year if he doesn’t go pro.
This is serious money. I don’t see us paying it. You do and I hope you are right. Minor league college ball will be way less interesting.
This years result was pretty good. Complete over achievement with a solid core of players moving into the future.
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This guy's well is pretty deep. He's just getting started.
https://businessofcollegesports.com/name-image-likeness/tracking-lifewallets-mission-to-sign-10-million-in-nil-deals/ (https://businessofcollegesports.com/name-image-likeness/tracking-lifewallets-mission-to-sign-10-million-in-nil-deals/)
Good, and he sued anti-capitalist Kremlin like Fla. government.
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I don' think this will prove to be true. Whenever we snag a Tyler Kolek or Zach Wrightsil, that is us doing this to someone else.
We didn’t snag those guys because of NIL. Wrightstil wasn’t transferring from a D1 school so we didn’t really do anything to anyone in that example.
I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s much more likely we lose really good players to other programs due to NIL money vs Marquette bringing someone in because of a 6 figure deal.
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This years result was pretty good. Complete over achievement with a solid core of players moving into the future.
I agree it was pretty good for Shakas first year with basically an entirely new roster. Shaka has the ability to recruit and coach. I believe he can get the job done initially. He took advantage of the transfer rule well bringing in Morsell, Kur, and Kolek. Joplin and Ellis would have been able to come regardless. Kam and Stevie just had to be re-recruited. No new rules necessary for those guys.
Going forward as these NIL deals like Pack’s become more universally available at other schools it becomes a HUGE factor in deciding where to go to school.
If you had an option between going to MU or staying at MU when Miami was offering $800,000 for you to go there, you would have to be an idiot to go to MU.
So, I would not blame Lewis for leaving if he doesn’t go pro if the money is elsewhere. And Lewis was first team all Big East and the main reason we made it to the tournament. He was the main reason we even had an average to pretty good result this year.
Losing those types of players despite “great relationships” will turn MU into an after thought in a hurry and Shaka will get frustrated and leave. No really good coach wants to paddle upstream the rest of there lives.
We need MU alums and the local businesses to step up. It will be interesting to see if that happens.
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It’s rather ironic that some on here (not all) who advocate for athletes being able to make as much as possible off their NIL, are the same ones who believe that very successful people should be taxed in a manner to cap their net worth. Interesting contradiction (and goal post shifting).
Please refrain from posting for a bit so I can get my popcorn ready to watch the gymnastics, name calling, and pontificating.
I have no issue with NIL.
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8-)
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It will be interesting to see how many companies will have buyer's remorse in paying big NIL down the road. I think there will be a high ceiling and a big drop off to second and third tier players a few years from now. I am all for NIL, but my guess is some guys will struggle getting big money and it will change the landscape down the road.
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It will be interesting to see how many companies will have buyer's remorse in paying big NIL down the road. I think there will be a high ceiling and a big drop off to second and third tier players a few years from now. I am all for NIL, but my guess is some guys will struggle getting big money and it will change the landscape down the road.
Agreed. It will be interesting. The big money is company owner hobby money. Nothing else. The big money like Pack’s will have almost zero return on investment. I would think many board members around the country would have to justify those amounts to their investors. If I was an investor I would want that money in my pocket not an athlete with zero value to my company and only value to an alum owner who likes college basketball.
My hope is that it is not sustainable and gets very reasonable in a hurry (one to two years). Let’s get back to car money and a decent apartment for the parents money. MU can compete in that world.
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I'm not saying we'll go the Miami route, but do people realize it was basically one donor that paid Wojo to go away, and not one of the usual suspects that always get mentioned when Marquette donations are a topic?
The money is there for the basketball program. Guys like Menendez will lay out $10M but that includes 85 scholarship football players. If the staff can give proof of concept, the money is absolutely there.
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It’s rather ironic that some on here (not all) who advocate for athletes being able to make as much as possible off their NIL, are the same ones who believe that very successful people should be taxed in a manner to cap their net worth. Interesting contradiction (and goal post shifting).
Please refrain from posting for a bit so I can get my popcorn ready to watch the gymnastics, name calling, and pontificating.
I have no issue with NIL.
I think it's pretty easy to understand. They support people being able to achieve financial security.
What they oppose is people that acquire so much wealth that they tip the balance of power and turn the country into an oligarchy.
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I agree it was pretty good for Shakas first year with basically an entirely new roster. Shaka has the ability to recruit and coach. I believe he can get the job done initially. He took advantage of the transfer rule well bringing in Morsell, Kur, and Kolek. Joplin and Ellis would have been able to come regardless. Kam and Stevie just had to be re-recruited. No new rules necessary for those guys.
Going forward as these NIL deals like Pack’s become more universally available at other schools it becomes a HUGE factor in deciding where to go to school.
If you had an option between going to MU or staying at MU when Miami was offering $800,000 for you to go there, you would have to be an idiot to go to MU.
So, I would not blame Lewis for leaving if he doesn’t go pro if the money is elsewhere. And Lewis was first team all Big East and the main reason we made it to the tournament. He was the main reason we even had an average to pretty good result this year.
Losing those types of players despite “great relationships” will turn MU into an after thought in a hurry and Shaka will get frustrated and leave. No really good coach wants to paddle upstream the rest of there lives.
We need MU alums and the local businesses to step up. It will be interesting to see if that happens.
I guess we can all build nightmare scenarios if we want.
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MU has enough money around the program to be competitive, now they have to get it done.
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I guess we can all build nightmare scenarios if we want.
More like a realistic scenario. Would you realistically choose Kansas State or Miami if you were the Pack family?
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More like a realistic scenario. Would you realistically choose Kansas State or Miami if you were the Pack family?
We will choose our battles. It was being done anyway by the schools that were getting top recruits.
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More like a realistic scenario. Would you realistically choose Kansas State or Miami if you were the Pack family?
No idea. But I think a lot of players aren’t going to follow the money, that many players who are getting paid less are going to perform better than those who are paid more, and that Marquette will find a path to succeed. Scoop is great at forecasting every change affecting college basketball as negative.
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It’s rather ironic that some on here (not all) who advocate for athletes being able to make as much as possible off their NIL, are the same ones who believe that very successful people should be taxed in a manner to cap their net worth. Interesting contradiction (and goal post shifting).
Not really. I think athletes should be taxed on their NIL money.
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More like a realistic scenario. Would you realistically choose Kansas State or Miami if you were the Pack family?
I think you have this idea that every player will transfer looking for a bigger payday but that really hasn't played out. A few will and find that payday. Some will and be disappointed. I think many, possibly most, won't even look because they are happy where they are.
Put it to you this way, has there ever been a point in your career where you knew you qualified for higher paying jobs but apply didn't because you were happy with your current situation?
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No idea. But I think a lot of players aren’t going to follow the money, that many players who are getting paid less are going to perform better than those who are paid more, and that Marquette will find a path to succeed. Scoop is great at forecasting every change affecting college basketball as negative.
I hope you are right and I do especially agree with your last sentence. I have definitely been in the negative camp on this change only for its potential implications for MU. I’m happy for the athletes.
Ultimately, I hope MU will be competitive and for me that means recruiting and retaining athletes that can lead us to competitive Big East finishes and the NCAA tournament regularly so we can an occasional deep run (2-3 times a decade).
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We didn’t snag those guys because of NIL. Wrightstil wasn’t transferring from a D1 school so we didn’t really do anything to anyone in that example.
I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s much more likely we lose really good players to other programs due to NIL money vs Marquette bringing someone in because of a 6 figure deal.
NIL was very much a part of why we snagged those guys. And yes we did something to Loyola New Orleans by taking Wrightsil. It seems like you're saying it only counts when it happens to us. NIL is a factor in every recruitment now
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NIL was very much a part of why we snagged those guys. And yes we did something to Loyola New Orleans by taking Wrightsil. It seems like you're saying it only counts when it happens to us. NIL is a factor in every recruitment now
I don’t see Wrightsil leaving for a clear step-up in competition level as the same thing as an existing D1 player transferring but that’s just my perspective.
Would love to hear how NIL impacted Kolek coming as I don’t recall any deals for him.
But I’m talking more about losing an impact guy due to a big money deal and maybe we see exactly that happen with Lewis.
Sorry but if an 18-21 kid is offered at least 6 figure more to go elsewhere than stay at Marquette he’s probably going to go, regardless of the culture or relationship with Shaka.
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I think you have this idea that every player will transfer looking for a bigger payday but that really hasn't played out. A few will and find that payday. Some will and be disappointed. I think many, possibly most, won't even look because they are happy where they are.
Put it to you this way, has there ever been a point in your career where you knew you qualified for higher paying jobs but apply didn't because you were happy with your current situation?
First of all, I support the players here re NIL money.
Combined with the one free transfer rule, student athletes are now free agents not once, but twice in a career that lasts anywhere from 1 to 4 years. Whether that’s a good idea I don’t know. Time will tell. But the idea that free agent athletes won’t “follow the money” once this whole thing shakes out defies both logic and all the empirical evidence we have in this regard. Will there be some players who like it where they are and gives their school/team a “home town discount”. Sure. Some, but not very many.
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Why do you assume it is a charade?
The school gets a basketball player. They pay the basketball player with a scholarship which is valuable for the player. The player can now also earn money on the side.
It's no different than what non athlete college students have been doing forever... expect the athletes NIL is way more valuable than most non athletes
Name a non-athlete student getting a free ride at the school and earning 6 figures or even 5 figures "on the side". Some of those students might even lose the scholarship/grant because it is need based as well if they earn too much "on the side".
Most non-athlete students are paying their tuition/books and fees, so its not quite the same.
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Name a non-athlete student getting a free ride at the school and earning 6 figures or even 5 figures "on the side". Some of those students might even lose the scholarship/grant because it is need based as well if they earn too much "on the side".
Yeah, those non SAs are reallly rather rare to be sure.
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Name a non-athlete student getting a free ride at the school and earning 6 figures or even 5 figures "on the side". Some of those students might even lose the scholarship/grant because it is need based as well if they earn too much "on the side".
Most non-athlete students are paying their tuition/books and fees, so its not quite the same.
As I said, athletes are way more valuable so they're making a lot more as they should be. Why do you have a problem with that?
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First of all, I support the players here re NIL money.
Combined with the one free transfer rule, student athletes are now free agents not once, but twice in a career that lasts anywhere from 1 to 4 years. Whether that’s a good idea I don’t know. Time will tell. But the idea that free agent athletes won’t “follow the money” once this whole thing shakes out defies both logic and all the empirical evidence we have in this regard. Will there be some players who like it where they are and gives their school/team a “home town discount”. Sure. Some, but not very many.
So you have been a free agent your entire career. I'm sure that at various points (probably at most points) there were jobs out there that you qualified for that paid more money than what you were currently doing. Did you attempt to job hop every year always following the money?
Money will always be a major factor, it will never be the only factor. The free transfer rule will also limit players abilities to move. So yeah, you may lose a promising freshman but you can replace him with another promising recruit who will have a significant barrier to transferring again.
All that, plus buying the best talent is only one way to win. It's a good one but there is more than one way to skin a cat
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Name a non-athlete student getting a free ride at the school and earning 6 figures or even 5 figures "on the side". Some of those students might even lose the scholarship/grant because it is need based as well if they earn too much "on the side".
Most non-athlete students are paying their tuition/books and fees, so its not quite the same.
Name a non-athlete student who is helping his school make millions a year.
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1518361020372328448?s=20&t=8dyts0PMLVpVIGKdgzj_PQ
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1518361020372328448?s=20&t=8dyts0PMLVpVIGKdgzj_PQ
safe to assume he back?
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1518361020372328448?s=20&t=8dyts0PMLVpVIGKdgzj_PQ
Butch cameo
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So you have been a free agent your entire career. I'm sure that at various points (probably at most points) there were jobs out there that you qualified for that paid more money than what you were currently doing. Did you attempt to job hop every year always following the money?
Money will always be a major factor, it will never be the only factor. The free transfer rule will also limit players abilities to move. So yeah, you may lose a promising freshman but you can replace him with another promising recruit who will have a significant barrier to transferring again.
All that, plus buying the best talent is only one way to win. It's a good one but there is more than one way to skin a cat
Actually I have worked for myself for almost all of my “career”. My boss was a cheap prick but I stayed with it nonetheless. Sports are different. Free agents almost always follow the money. I have no problem with that, but to pretend otherwise doesn’t square with reality.
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https://twitter.com/jusbuckets_5/status/1518361020372328448?s=20&t=8dyts0PMLVpVIGKdgzj_PQ
Clearly means Justin is celebrating his second season at Marquette prior to coming back for an even better third season ...
Unless it clearly means Justin is celebrating his second (and final) season at Marquette prior to going pro ...
Unless it clearly means Justin is celebrating his second (and final) season at Marquette prior to transferring.
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Clearly means Justin is celebrating his second season at Marquette prior to coming back for an even better third season ...
Unless it clearly means Justin is celebrating his second (and final) season at Marquette prior to going pro ...
Unless it clearly means Justin is celebrating his second (and final) season at Marquette prior to transferring.
I’m feeling pretty confident one of those things will happen.
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Most non-athlete students are paying their tuition/books and fees, so its not quite the same.
No sh*t.
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safe to assume he back?
Clearly. The tweet is "Soph season" and as we all know Lewis was a redshirt freshman, this is proof positive he's going to be back.
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Clearly. The tweet is "Soph season" and as we all know Lewis was a redshirt freshman, this is proof positive he's going to be back.
I say COLE
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Looking over 5 different nba mock drafts, I only found one that has Justin drafted (2nd rd). The others have him just outside the 2nd rd in a group that includes Kofi Cockburn, Scotty Pippen Jr, Julian Champagnie, Jermaine Samuels, Drew Timme, Johnny Juzang, Isaiah Mobley and Ron Harper Jr.. Of note, UW’s Johnny Davis as high as no. 11 and Patrick Baldwin Jr no. 30. Has JL signed with an agent?
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Looking over 5 different nba mock drafts, I only found one that has Justin drafted (2nd rd). The others have him just outside the 2nd rd in a group that includes Kofi Cockburn, Scotty Pippen Jr, Julian Champagnie, Jermaine Samuels, Drew Timme, Johnny Juzang, Isaiah Mobley and Ron Harper Jr.. Of note, UW’s Johnny Davis as high as no. 11 and Patrick Baldwin Jr no. 30. Has JL signed with an agent?
He has, but he signed with a NCAA-licensed agent, which means he can still return if he chooses. Though most of the mocks are pretty much just people's guesses. Vecenie, Ford, and a few others actually talk to NBA execs and are far more reliable. Though as Paint Touches recently noted, second round picks at this point are little better than throwing at names on a dart board.
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As I said, athletes are way more valuable so they're making a lot more as they should be. Why do you have a problem with that?
Really? Like nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, future investment bankers who are all paying their own way for the most part. Why pay the tuition for an athlete who can care less about school if he can afford to pay for it by his NIL earnings? The scholarship would be better spent on students like those above you would think. Most of the big 10 figure donations to the University I would assume come from students like those above, not the valuable athlete who played basketball.
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Really? Like nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, future investment bankers who are all paying their own way for the most part. Why pay the tuition for an athlete who can care less about school if he can afford to pay for it by his NIL earnings? The scholarship would be better spent on students like those above you would think. Most of the big 10 figure donations to the University I would assume come from students like those above, not the valuable athlete who played basketball.
You do realize why colleges parktake in major college sports, correct?
The day of the scholar athlete would still be if colleges only truly cared about the competetion and not all the perks that come with it.
What makes Marquette known? It isn’t the lawyers that have graduated from the school.
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Really? Like nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, future investment bankers who are all paying their own way for the most part. Why pay the tuition for an athlete who can care less about school if he can afford to pay for it by his NIL earnings?
Because that's what the marketplace demands.
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Really? Like nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, future investment bankers who are all paying their own way for the most part. Why pay the tuition for an athlete who can care less about school if he can afford to pay for it by his NIL earnings? The scholarship would be better spent on students like those above you would think. Most of the big 10 figure donations to the University I would assume come from students like those above, not the valuable athlete who played basketball.
1. The future nurses, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants, engineers, etc. do nothing for the school as students other than pay it tuition (for which they receive an education in return). The athletes are playing a sport for the university which generate thousands of dollars for the university (for which they receive an education in return). Those thousands of dollars generated than go to the school which allows them to make improvements for the nurses et. al.
2.You keep saying athletes don't care about school. Why do you assume that? Some don't, just like some non-athlete college students don't care about school. I think it is really concerning that you assume just because someone is a college athlete that they don't care about school.
3. You seem to have an idea that the majority of players are receiving hundreds of thousands in NIL money. That is not reality. A few will make more than their scholarships are worth, some will make about what their scholarships are worth, the vast majority will make less from NIL than the value of their scholarship
4. Athletic scholarships take exactly $0 away from scholarships for other students. In fact, they help the university raise money to create more scholarships for other students.
5. What university is receiving 10 figure donations? 7 or 8 figure donations is what I think you mean. And yes, there a few college students who grow up and become big donors later in life. They are less valuable as college students than student athletes are.
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Really? Like nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, future investment bankers who are all paying their own way for the most part. Why pay the tuition for an athlete who can care less about school if he can afford to pay for it by his NIL earnings? The scholarship would be better spent on students like those above you would think. Most of the big 10 figure donations to the University I would assume come from students like those above, not the valuable athlete who played basketball.
While I love the idea, it's simply not reality. I mean, teachers should probably be the highest paid people considering the importance of developing young minds, but we live in a world that values revenue generation. And donations go up when the basketball program is at its best because it's the best form of advertising for the University. That's why Father Wild said that money invested on basketball came back at a 2:1 rate.
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Looking over 5 different nba mock drafts, I only found one that has Justin drafted (2nd rd). The others have him just outside the 2nd rd in a group that includes Kofi Cockburn, Scotty Pippen Jr, Julian Champagnie, Jermaine Samuels, Drew Timme, Johnny Juzang, Isaiah Mobley and Ron Harper Jr.. Of note, UW’s Johnny Davis as high as no. 11 and Patrick Baldwin Jr no. 30. Has JL signed with an agent?
Bleacher Report and Sports Illustrated both have Justin at 41 in their latest mock drafts.
ESPN ranks Justin at 40 in their top 100.
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1. The future nurses, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants, engineers, etc. do nothing for the school as students other than pay it tuition (for which they receive an education in return). The athletes are playing a sport for the university which generate thousands of dollars for the university (for which they receive an education in return). Those thousands of dollars generated than go to the school which allows them to make improvements for the nurses et. al.
2.You keep saying athletes don't care about school. Why do you assume that? Some don't, just like some non-athlete college students don't care about school. I think it is really concerning that you assume just because someone is a college athlete that they don't care about school.
3. You seem to have an idea that the majority of players are receiving hundreds of thousands in NIL money. That is not reality. A few will make more than their scholarships are worth, some will make about what their scholarships are worth, the vast majority will make less from NIL than the value of their scholarship
4. Athletic scholarships take exactly $0 away from scholarships for other students. In fact, they help the university raise money to create more scholarships for other students.
5. What university is receiving 10 figure donations? 7 or 8 figure donations is what I think you mean. And yes, there a few college students who grow up and become big donors later in life. They are less valuable as college students than student athletes are.
I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
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Looking over 5 different nba mock drafts, I only found one that has Justin drafted (2nd rd). The others have him just outside the 2nd rd in a group that includes Kofi Cockburn, Scotty Pippen Jr, Julian Champagnie, Jermaine Samuels, Drew Timme, Johnny Juzang, Isaiah Mobley and Ron Harper Jr.. Of note, UW’s Johnny Davis as high as no. 11 and Patrick Baldwin Jr no. 30. Has JL signed with an agent?
All mock drafts are not equal just because it says ‘mock draft’ on the heading.
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
Except there's no prohibition on the nurse proving otherwise. If the nurse wants to earn money off their name, image, and likeness, there is and never has been any prohibition on that. If they want to appear in advertisements, do autograph sessions, or earn money off other public appearances, nothing is preventing them from any of that.
If you want to start a consortium to funnel money into recruiting the top nursing students, no one will stop you. If you can find donors and want to hand out thousands or even millions of dollars to them, go for it. I suspect, however, you will have a harder time convincing the moneyed donors to join your consortium than you would if you were supporting athletics. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
Life’s tough but that’s the marketplace
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So, it seems, that first round pick and not drafted would be the two outliers for Justin.
Most recent prognostications have him around the 40 mark, so somewhere in the early to mid second round appears to be the most likely, barring an outlier reach or fall.
That then means the decision comes down to if Justin’s main goal is
1- to just get drafted and fulfill a lifelong dream, and then work his way into the league and greater future income.
OR
2- make a higher salary off the bat by potentially getting drafted in the middle of the first round, and having a higher probability to stick right off the jump.
Of course option 1 means he gawne, option 2 means he back.
Also, of course, if he selects door number 2 that means he is really betting on himself to improve his stock and stay healthy.
Here’s to hoping for door #2.
If Justin returns MU will be much better this season and he will win BEPoY and then get taken in the top 25/20 in next years draft, imo.
That’s clearly not guaranteed, but I would say the two biggest hurdles would be
A) playing all the games
B) his teammates carrying their weight (and him/coaches helping them carry it) to lead MU to a top 3 conference finish
Icing on the cake would be a good tourney performance by Justin himself and a nice run to the sweet 16 or beyond
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What makes Marquette known? It isn’t the lawyers that have graduated from the school.
1. Men's Basketball
2. Dentists (QAnon gatherings spike MU Google Analytics)
3. The Interchange
4. Crime
5. Chris Farley
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
If a basketball player is on an operating table, a current nursing student isn't going to be part of the procedure.
Nursing students are more valuable for the world as a whole. Athletes are more valuable specifically to universities. That's just a fact. And like Brew said, if you want to start funneling NIL money to nursing students, no one is stopping you.
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
It's time to stop.
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
Of all your ridiculous takes on the topic of athlete freedom/compensation, this is a candidate for your bottom 5.
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1. Men's Basketball
2. Dentists (QAnon gatherings spike MU Google Analytics)
3. The Interchange
4. Crime
5. Chris Farley
What ... no Joe McCarthy?
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I am sured all the Marquette nursing student are thrilled that they have less value than a basketball player and perhaps point that out when the basketball player is on the operating table.
[/quote
2 years ago when I was living by myself in my basement, because I was in/out of COVID patients rooms all day at work. I got home and a lot of nights turned on old Marquette games on YouTube. The basketball games provided way more value to just me then about anything else.
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What ... no Joe McCarthy?
Recently had some repair work done at home by a Joseph McCarthy. All I could think was how awkward a name that had to be growing up (especially as he was in his 70s, so he would've been around when Tail-Gunner Joe was making his name.
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1. Men's Basketball
2. Dentists (QAnon gatherings spike MU Google Analytics)
3. The Interchange
4. Crime
5. Chris Farley
Wrong! Scoop #1 Basketball #2
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I found this quote interesting:
"Given what a second-round pick can earn, compared to the NIL money Love could collect, it’s likely that he’ll be back at UNC."
https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/ (https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/)
We have a 20-page thread where there is a commonly accepted wisdom that Justin should leave because the money he could earn even as a mid-2nd round pick is too much to pass up.
Looking at the decisions by Love, Bacot, Oscar Tshiebwe to remain in college, the opposite seems to be turning out to be the case--the NIL money might be better than what a 2nd round pick might earn.
It raises the question as to how far is MU from being able to retain Lewis based on similar NIL.
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I found this quote interesting:
"Given what a second-round pick can earn, compared to the NIL money Love could collect, it’s likely that he’ll be back at UNC."
https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/ (https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/)
We have a 20-page thread where there is a commonly accepted wisdom that Justin should leave because the money he could earn even as a mid-2nd round pick is too much to pass up.
Looking at the decisions by Love, Bacot, Oscar Tshiebwe to remain in college, the opposite seems to be turning out to be the case--the NIL money might be better than what a 2nd round pick might earn.
It raises the question as to how far is MU from being able to retain Lewis based on similar NIL.
Yes, Marquette will always be behind North Carolina and Kentucky in terms of NIL. But this is also one of the reasons why NIL is great for college basketball. It keeps top talent in college longer.
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I found this quote interesting:
"Given what a second-round pick can earn, compared to the NIL money Love could collect, it’s likely that he’ll be back at UNC."
https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/ (https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/)
We have a 20-page thread where there is a commonly accepted wisdom that Justin should leave because the money he could earn even as a mid-2nd round pick is too much to pass up.
Looking at the decisions by Love, Bacot, Oscar Tshiebwe to remain in college, the opposite seems to be turning out to be the case--the NIL money might be better than what a 2nd round pick might earn.
It raises the question as to how far is MU from being able to retain Lewis based on similar NIL.
There is always the possibility he comes back to another school that can provide a better NIL package than MU (COLE).
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Yes, Marquette will always be behind North Carolina and Kentucky in terms of NIL. But this is also one of the reasons why NIL is great for college basketballUNC and Kentucky . It keeps top talent in college longer.
FIFY
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Since there's the remaining "will he or won't he" transfer portal discussion around Justin, the date to watch is May 1st. That's the deadline for players to enter the portal and be immediately eligible for next season. If we get to next Monday and Justin isn't in the portal, his options are down to going pro, returning to Marquette, or sitting out next season.
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There is always the possibility he comes back to another school that can provide a better NIL package than MU (COLE).
With your COLE reference I realize your post is slightly pre-TEAL.
If there was no hint of satire, let me say this:
Imagine a hypothetical where a player exits a system he has fit very well in, in order to garner $300,000 more in NIL money from a big💰 blue-blood. He has a decent final college season there, but falls a bit off the NBA radar after not being utilized properly. Given back-to-back year similarities in pro talent and mock drafts, the player regressed slightly and dropped 8 draft slots. Was the transfer worth the immediate pecuniary gain, only to take a significant hit on his first contract?
I realize that Justin was a Wojo recruit, but Shaka clearly did a phenomenal job utilizing and developing him. It’s really a simple equation, but one that requires a bit of thought from the athlete himself. Shaka will also be well-positioned if Justin indeed gets feedback that he needs to play the small 5 more.
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With your COLE reference I realize your post is slightly pre-TEAL.
If there was no hint of satire, let me say this:
Imagine a hypothetical where a player exits a system he has fit very well in, in order to garner $400,000 more in NIL money from a big💰 blue-blood. He has a decent final college season there, but falls a bit off the NBA radar after not being utilized properly. Given back-to back year similarities in pro talent and mock drafts, the player regressed slightly and dropped 8 draft slots. Was the transfer worth the immediate pecuniary gain, only to take a significant hit on his first contract?
I realize that Justin was a Wojo recruit, but Shaka clearly did a phenomenal job utilizing and developing him. It’s really a simple equation, but one that requires a bit of thought from the athlete himself. Shaka will also be well-positioned if Justin indeed gets feedback that he needs to play the small 5 more.
By nature, athletes are competitive and confident. A player who has accomplished what Justin just did at Marquette -- First-team All-BE, BEMIP, 17/8, NCAAT bid -- likely would go in thinking that he'd be even better at a blueblood, in part because the talent around him would make his own ability shine all the more. The coach trying to poach him would sell him on that, too, and coaches are great salespeople. It wouldn't even enter a confident athlete's mind that he could end up in a worse position vis-a-vis the draft.
So sure, your scenario could play out ... but most top-tier athletes would not entertain that scenario when making their decisions.
Yes, Marquette will always be behind North Carolina and Kentucky in terms of NIL. But this is also one of the reasons why NIL is great for college basketball. It keeps top talent in college longer.
Yep. Of course, some of the same folks who want athletes to stay in school longer also prefer that major-sport athletes have neither free-transfer rights nor the right to be compensated for their own NIL.
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There is always the possibility he comes back to another school that can provide a better NIL package than MU (COLE).
100%. COLE will be dictated by MUs ability to retain their best players (phase 2 of recruiting).
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Yep. Of course, some of the same folks who want athletes to stay in school longer also prefer that major-sport athletes have neither free-transfer rights nor the right to be compensated for their own NIL.
Dammit I want them to entertain me on MY terms!
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MU82,
Thanks for the input. Hadn’t considered the high-level athlete “supreme confidence” angle.
I see your point, and though I don’t have a coaching background like you, I love watching videos of top coaches effectively getting their point across in hands-on demonstrations. Saw one recently of Shaka from his VCU days on setting the proper screen and especially on the roller’s posture as he dribbles and moves around it. It’s like the ball-handler had an epiphany when implored by Shaka to get as low as possible when traversing the teammate’s screen.
Watching the light bulb go on in the players’ minds, especially on something so simple, actually has me in the opposite frame of mind from your point. IOW, we should never assume even high D-1 players have been schooled fully and properly in fundamentals. Shaka truly wears many hats, but hands-on fundamental instruction is clearly something he doesn’t delegate or think he’s better than. It’s just my contention that Justin was the beneficiary of some serious instructional coaching to make the leap he made. The talent was “in the crib” as Al liked to say. Shaka has clearly met his responsibility to “get it out” of Mr. Justin Lewis. Here’s to whatever is best for JL. Selfishly hoping he “puts it all together” right here.
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All mock drafts are not equal just because it says ‘mock draft’ on the heading.
thx…I mean, really. Thx!
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Bleacher Report and Sports Illustrated both have Justin at 41 in their latest mock drafts.
ESPN ranks Justin at 40 in their top 100.
so, mid 2nd rd. Seems about right.
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Of all your ridiculous takes on the topic of athlete freedom/compensation, this is a candidate for your bottom 5.
I have no problem with an athlete earning from NIL. I have a problem with giving a wealthy athlete a scholarship if they can pay their own way.
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I have no problem with an athlete earning from NIL. I have a problem with giving a wealthy athlete a scholarship if they can pay their own way.
College students who can "pay their own way" routinely get scholarships already.
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is he being offered any type of significant NIL deal?
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I have no problem with an athlete earning from NIL. I have a problem with giving a wealthy athlete a scholarship if they can pay their own way.
Athletic scholarships are not need based.
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I found this quote interesting:
"Given what a second-round pick can earn, compared to the NIL money Love could collect, it’s likely that he’ll be back at UNC."
https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/ (https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/)
We have a 20-page thread where there is a commonly accepted wisdom that Justin should leave because the money he could earn even as a mid-2nd round pick is too much to pass up.
Looking at the decisions by Love, Bacot, Oscar Tshiebwe to remain in college, the opposite seems to be turning out to be the case--the NIL money might be better than what a 2nd round pick might earn.
It raises the question as to how far is MU from being able to retain Lewis based on similar NIL.
Let the bidding wars begin. Can an athlete higher a NIL agent to see what school offers the best deal? Can a deal be made with the understanding the player will have a place at said school before being put on the portal? I wouldn't be surprised if Kam, Stevie or even David have a decent sophomore season put their names in the portal. Rather sit on the Duke, UNC, Kansas or UCLA or wow Miami bench with a cushy NIL than playing for peanuts at Marquette.
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I have a problem with giving a wealthy athlete a scholarship if they can pay their own way.
Not quite as ridiculous as your previous take, but pretty ridiculous. As others have stated, plenty of "wealthy" athletes have gotten scholarships over the years.
Let the bidding wars begin. Can an athlete higher a NIL agent to see what school offers the best deal? Can a deal be made with the understanding the player will have a place at said school before being put on the portal? I wouldn't be surprised if Kam, Stevie or even David have a decent sophomore season put their names in the portal. Rather sit on the Duke, UNC, Kansas or UCLA or wow Miami bench with a cushy NIL than playing for peanuts at Marquette.
Look, we get it ... emotionally and mentally, you're trapped back in 1969. You long for the days when athletes were indentured servants and when only the coaches, ADs and other power brokers could make any money. And you wish there were a way to resurrect Al and Willie Wampum. I know the rules of 2022 are onerous for you, but you have to try to somehow soldier on, brave sir.
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Let the bidding wars begin. Can an athlete higher a NIL agent to see what school offers the best deal? Can a deal be made with the understanding the player will have a place at said school before being put on the portal? I wouldn't be surprised if Kam, Stevie or even David have a decent sophomore season put their names in the portal. Rather sit on the Duke, UNC, Kansas or UCLA or wow Miami bench with a cushy NIL than playing for peanuts at Marquette.
MU, along with pretty much everyone else, won’t be able to compete against the Blue Bloods for top players just as it’s always been.
Kam, Stevie, and David would need to have more than a “decent” sophomore season to even get a sniff from one of the programs you mentioned. Maybe if one of them wins conference player of the year, it’d be a different story.
From an NIL perspective, MU should be in a pretty good spot relative to all non blue bloods. It would be devastating to the program to start losing guys like the three you mention to a program like Iowa for example.
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MU, along with pretty much everyone else, won’t be able to compete against the Blue Bloods for top players just as it’s always been.
Kam, Stevie, and David would need to have more than a “decent” sophomore season to even get a sniff from one of the programs you mentioned. Maybe if one of them wins conference player of the year, it’d be a different story.
From an NIL perspective, MU should be in a pretty good spot relative to all non blue bloods. It would be devastating to the program to start losing guys like the three you mention to a program like Iowa for example.
Your last sentence of the last paragraph would be the death knell. As I mentioned in another thread, scoop alone could prevent this from happening by having die hard fans (I assume these are the only ones on scoop) pay some monthly stipend and buy players to advertise on their site.
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Not quite as ridiculous as your previous take, but pretty ridiculous. As others have stated, plenty of "wealthy" athletes have gotten scholarships over the years.
Look, we get it ... emotionally and mentally, you're trapped back in 1969. You long for the days when athletes were indentured servants and when only the coaches, ADs and other power brokers could make any money. And you wish there were a way to resurrect Al and Willie Wampum. I know the rules of 2022 are onerous for you, but you have to try to somehow soldier on, brave sir.
Ask Ulice Payne if he was an indentured servant. He has done quite well for himself.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2010/recipient_Payne.php
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Ask Ulice Payne if he was an indentured servant. He has done quite well for himself.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2010/recipient_Payne.php
I usually like to formulate opinions/decisions based upon single events that fit my mindset as well. ::)
My wife and I were watching a television show the other night and a man was convicted of a crime he didn't commit. In prison he fell into a religious group, and took advantage of the opportunity to further his education. He said that while the false imprisonment took 10 years from him that he would never get back, he also felt an odd appreciation because he felt if he wasn't in prison he likely was headed down a path that would have seen him dead. Based upon this story...false imprisonment is my stance on best practice for high risk young adults.
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Yes we know who Ulice Payne is. Not sure how this is all relevant, but OK....
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I usually like to formulate opinions/decisions based upon single events that fit my mindset as well. ::)
My wife and I were watching a television show the other night and a man was convicted of a crime he didn't commit. In prison he fell into a religious group, and took advantage of the opportunity to further his education. He said that while the false imprisonment took 10 years from him that he would never get back, he also felt an odd appreciation because he felt if he wasn't in prison he likely was headed down a path that would have seen him dead. Based upon this story...false imprisonment is my stance on best practice for high risk young adults.
OK, I don't think Jim Chones felt like an indentured servant. He signed a pro contract for more money that I made in my entire working career.
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OK, I don't think Jim Chones felt like an indentured servant. He signed a pro contract for more money that I made in my entire working career.
Life’s tough, gramps
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OK, I don't think Jim Chones felt like an indentured servant. He signed a pro contract for more money that I made in my entire working career.
Do you think Jim Chones or Ulice Payne would have liked the opportunity to make money in college off their NIL? Because if the answer is yes, your point is moot. If your answer is no, you're lying to yourself.
Hell, Chones had access to NIL he might have been able to finish the season instead of leaving early for the ABA.
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I have no problem with an athlete earning from NIL. I have a problem with giving a wealthy athlete a scholarship if they can pay their own way.
So, eliminate lacrosse, golf and hockey as scholarship sports?
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Since there's the remaining "will he or won't he" transfer portal discussion around Justin, the date to watch is May 1st. That's the deadline for players to enter the portal and be immediately eligible for next season. If we get to next Monday and Justin isn't in the portal, his options are down to going pro, returning to Marquette, or sitting out next season.
My guess is MU will come up with loot to reasonably satisfy Justin by May 1 to prevent an immediate eligibility portal filing as described above
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I love Professional College Basketball.
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Not quite as ridiculous as your previous take, but pretty ridiculous. As others have stated, plenty of "wealthy" athletes have gotten scholarships over the years.
Look, we get it ... emotionally and mentally, you're trapped back in 1969. You long for the days when athletes were indentured servants and when only the coaches, ADs and other power brokers could make any money. And you wish there were a way to resurrect Al and Willie Wampum. I know the rules of 2022 are onerous for you, but you have to try to somehow soldier on, brave sir.
weak, just condescending and weak.
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OK, I don't think Jim Chones felt like an indentured servant. He signed a pro contract for more money that I made in my entire working career.
2 examples...you the man!
Would you like me to show you examples of athletes who felt they were taken advantage of...the list is long...but I'm not sure it proves anything.
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I found this quote interesting:
"Given what a second-round pick can earn, compared to the NIL money Love could collect, it’s likely that he’ll be back at UNC."
https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/ (https://tarheeltribune.com/2022/04/07/with-nil-money-changing-equation-unc-should-have-roster-to-make-redemption-run-like-1982-and-2017/)
We have a 20-page thread where there is a commonly accepted wisdom that Justin should leave because the money he could earn even as a mid-2nd round pick is too much to pass up.
Looking at the decisions by Love, Bacot, Oscar Tshiebwe to remain in college, the opposite seems to be turning out to be the case--the NIL money might be better than what a 2nd round pick might earn.
It raises the question as to how far is MU from being able to retain Lewis based on similar NIL.
I just think Justin is also a significantly better prospect than any of those guys.
He can play inside with the bigs above the rim, he can hit shots from the outside at a really solid clip, and he's got really good footwork for a guy 6'7"/6'8".
He's simply more NBA ready than any of those guys mentioned.
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If you don’t like the new world of college athletics, no one is making you continue to be a fan. You can shake your fist at the clouds all the live long day but the train he left the station. The world changes, sports change. We can adapt or be left behind. The choice is yours.
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Do you think Jim Chones or Ulice Payne would have liked the opportunity to make money in college off their NIL? Because if the answer is yes, your point is moot. If your answer is no, you're lying to yourself.
Hell, Chones had access to NIL he might have been able to finish the season instead of leaving early for the ABA.
This.
Al woulda been able to secure NIL funding for his guys, too.
weak, just condescending and weak.
Sorry if change scares some people here. It's hell that athletes actually want to have control over (and to profit from) their own names, images and likenesses the way almost everybody else in America can.
"Just shaddup and entertain me ... and if you don't entertain me enough, I'll rip you on the interwebs!"
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So, will Marquette become a top tier minor league college basketball team that the Blue have the ability to call up a Marquette rising star?
In addition, as a top tier minor league college basketball team, can Marquette call up a lower tier minor league CBB team star from say Atlantic 10 or Mountain West?
Should Marquette be sad about the outcome when Marquette face a Major League college basketball team like UNC?
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This.
Al woulda been able to secure NIL funding for his guys, too.
Sorry if change scares some people here. It's hell that athletes actually want to have control over (and to profit from) their own names, images and likenesses the way almost everybody else in America can.
"Just shaddup and entertain me ... and if you don't entertain me enough, I'll rip you on the interwebs!"
I don’t think you get Vipers point. It’s how you argue not your argument.
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Very Chicos-esque criticism
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MU, along with pretty much everyone else, won’t be able to compete against the Blue Bloods for top players just as it’s always been.
So true. Marquette, as you state, has never been able to compete against the Blue Bloods. Just imagine if Gonzaga in Spokane WA tried to compete at the D1 level much less get players with offers from Blue Bloods? That would be funny. Almost as funny as Baylor having decent teams in basketball or football.
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So, eliminate lacrosse, golf and hockey as scholarship sports?
Tennis anyone?
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This.
Al woulda been able to secure NIL funding for his guys, too.
Sorry if change scares some people here. It's hell that athletes actually want to have control over (and to profit from) their own names, images and likenesses the way almost everybody else in America can.
"Just shaddup and entertain me ... and if you don't entertain me enough, I'll rip you on the interwebs!"
Who is scared? The new reality is great for the players who want to further their careers and make some pretty good coin. I just have my doubts that Marquette basketball will be competitive enough to win championships. Many here believe they will. Will see.
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In the long run, while the NIL is good for some players, it is not good for college basketball.
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In the long run, while the NIL is good for some players, it is not good for college basketball.
Nonsense. Keeping talent in college basketball is GREAT for the game. And NIL will do that.
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Nonsense. Keeping talent in college basketball is GREAT for the game. And NIL will do that.
Not really. Guys will still declare.
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Not really. Guys will still declare.
Lottery/first round picks, sure, but this will cut down on the rash of fringe second round guys who are going late second round/G league
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Does it really matter if they play for this team or that team?
They just want the money.
Why make them attend classes?
It is just taking time away for improving themselves as professional players.
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Nonsense. Keeping talent in college basketball is GREAT for the game. And NIL will do that.
It is not about keeping talent in college basketball. It is about the large alumni schools paying for the top talent.
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It is not about keeping talent in college basketball. It is about the large alumni schools paying for the top talent.
Large alumni schools were already paying for the top talent. The only thing that's changed in that regard is they are announcing the deals publicly.
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I don’t think you get Vipers point. It’s how you argue not your argument.
Hmmm.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2022/04/25/uws-mcintosh-encouraged-how-athletes-benefiting-nil/7445685001/
Mostly about UW, but it does give a lot of good info about NIL.
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Does it really matter if they play for this team or that team?
They just want the money.
Why make them attend classes?
It is just taking time away for improving themselves as professional players.
And that is why guys will continue to declare - even if they are not 1st rounders.
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Large alumni schools were already paying for the top talent. The only thing that's changed in that regard is they are announcing the deals publicly.
And the amount of money. $800,000 to a couple million plus the new transfer rules significantly changes the landscape. Other than that I agree with you.
I’m not sure many of us would be diehard fans if our final fours and NC went to bigger schools had these same rules applied over the last 50 years.
Again, let’s see if our community steps up. Hopefully the fears that we will be second class citizens will be unfounded. I’d at least like to keep our best players. The initial loss of talent to the blue bloods was always there. No doubt.
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Nonsense. Keeping talent in college basketball is GREAT for the game. And NIL will do that.
Agreed. It's up to the fans of these teams to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Kids used to pick schools for a variety of reasons (the coach, facilities, playing time, playing style, weather, bag men, etc). Has NIL jumped to the top of list? I do think NIL combined with the free transfer has put the fear in a lot of people. We'll see what happens.
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Will be interesting to see the fan enthusiasm over the years.
To myself pro sports are boring.
Will college basketball become the same?
Time will tell.
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Why are pro sports boring?
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Why are pro sports boring?
Yeah, pro sports are significantly better and more entertaining than college sports.
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Yeah, pro sports are significantly better and more entertaining than college sports.
Pro sports lack enthusiasm, fundamentals and guys do it the right way
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Nonsense. Keeping talent in college basketball is GREAT for the game. And NIL will do that.
It's only GREAT for the game if competitive balance is maintained, and that's not what is happening.
Professional leagues understand this, and that's why we have salary caps, luxury taxes, and drafts that let the worst performers pick first. The pro leagues understand that it's not as entertaining for fans if only a handful of teams can afford to buy their way to championships.
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It's only GREAT for the game if competitive balance is maintained, and that's not what is happening.
Competitive balance has never been a feature of college sports, so I don't know how you can make that statement since I have no idea how you would judge what the "before" and "after" look like.
Professional leagues understand this, and that's why we have salary caps, luxury taxes, and drafts that let the worst performers pick first. The pro leagues understand that it's not as entertaining for fans if only a handful of teams can afford to buy their way to championships.
I think it's cute that you think salary caps, luxury tax, etc. are about "competitive balance." They're about cost containment.
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How much competitive balance exists in college football? Alabama, Clemson, other hot SEC team, TBD. There is your final 4 next year.
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How much competitive balance exists in college football? Alabama, Clemson, other hot SEC team, TBD. There is your final 4 next year.
21/32 (65.6%) of the CFP spots have been taken by one of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. It raises to 25/32 (78.1%) if you add in Georgia and Notre Dame. Of the 7 teams to make the CFP that aren't one of those 6 teams, 5 have lost in the first game of the CFP. 1 lost in the Finals (Oregon in the very first year of the CFP) and 1 won it (LSU in 2019). There is no competitive balance in college football.
College basketball will not have the same problem because the NCAAT is the great equalizer. Teams can still have great and memorable playoff runs without winning the national championship. Also, while the top teams will continue to have the most representation in the later of the rounds of the tournament, it is not a guarantee because in a 6 round single elimination tournament, anything can happen. On any given night, St. Peter's can knock off Kentucky, even though Kentucky is loaded with players making hundreds of thousands in NIL and St. Peter's is lucky if their players' NIL money could pool together to buy them something off the dollar menu.
And as others have said, College basketball has been dealing with this already for years. Except now everyone can play instead of the few programs that were willing to risk NCAA violations.
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Will be interesting to see the fan enthusiasm over the years.
To myself pro sports are boring.
Will college basketball become the same?
Time will tell.
Is the players making money what makes pro sports boring to you?
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21/32 (65.6%) of the CFP spots have been taken by one of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. It raises to 25/32 (78.1%) if you add in Georgia and Notre Dame. Of the 7 teams to make the CFP that aren't one of those 6 teams, 5 have lost in the first game of the CFP. 1 lost in the Finals (Oregon in the very first year of the CFP) and 1 won it (LSU in 2019). There is no competitive balance in college football.
College basketball will not have the same problem because the NCAAT is the great equalizer. Teams can still have great and memorable playoff runs without winning the national championship. Also, while the top teams will continue to have the most representation in the later of the rounds of the tournament, it is not a guarantee because in a 6 round single elimination tournament, anything can happen. On any given night, St. Peter's can knock off Kentucky, even though Kentucky is loaded with players making hundreds of thousands in NIL and St. Peter's is lucky if their players' NIL money could pool together to buy them something off the dollar menu.
And as others have said, College basketball has been dealing with this already for years. Except now everyone can play instead of the few programs that were willing to risk NCAA violations.
Yep.
Like you, I choose to be an optimist: NIL will not destroy college basketball; and Marquette will end up doing A-OK, at least as well as we have in the first 45 post-Al years.
If others want to get all doom-and-gloomy about it, that's their right, even if they have no basis for their doom and gloom because there are far too many unanswered questions now.
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Is the players making money what makes pro sports boring to you?
No, it is the going through the motions. They can get paid all they want. I am not paying their salary. If someone wants to pay them and people want to pay tickets, what do I care?
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Yep.
Like you, I choose to be an optimist: NIL will not destroy college basketball; and Marquette will end up doing A-OK, at least as well as we have in the first 45 post-Al years.
If others want to get all doom-and-gloomy about it, that's their right, even if they have no basis for their doom and gloom because there are far too many unanswered questions now.
Bullchit! Make Marquette Great Again, aina?
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No, it is the going through the motions.
Yeah I don't see that at all when I watch professional sports when compared to college sports.
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No, it is the going through the motions. They can get paid all they want. I am not paying their salary. If someone wants to pay them and people want to pay tickets, what do I care?
This argument holds zero weight and is an insult to professional athletes
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It's funny seeing Scoop call their First Team All Big East player lazy with bad body language, while also saying that college sports are better than professional sports because professional athletes don't care and don't try. I guess some people would rather watch the Brad Davisons of the world than the Kevin Durants of the world. I'll take the latter 100 times out of 100.
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Yeah I don't see that at all when I watch professional sports when compared to college sports.
Yeah, like taking a guy out after pitching 7 innings of perfect ball.
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College basketball will not have the same problem because the NCAAT is the great equalizer. Teams can still have great and memorable playoff runs without winning the national championship. Also, while the top teams will continue to have the most representation in the later of the rounds of the tournament, it is not a guarantee because in a 6 round single elimination tournament, anything can happen. On any given night, St. Peter's can knock off Kentucky, even though Kentucky is loaded with players making hundreds of thousands in NIL and St. Peter's is lucky if their players' NIL money could pool together to buy them something off the dollar menu.
The NCAA tournament is “the great equalizer” where anything can happen? LOL. 35 tournament since seeding the teams began. 23 #1 seeds have won it all. 5#2s, 4#3s, 1 #4, #6, #7 and #8s. Zero #5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16s. What St Peter’s did (15 seed reaching the E8) has happened once.
Of course in any single elimination tournament there are upsets but when a 1seed wins 64% of the time and a 1,2 or 3 wins it 90% of the time I think it’s fair to say that the very top teams dominate the tournament.
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Yeah, like taking a guy out after pitching 7 innings of perfect ball.
Did you have to change your diapers after that?
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The NCAA tournament is “the great equalizer” where anything can happen? LOL. 35 tournament since seeding the teams began. 23 #1 seeds have won it all. 5#2s, 4#3s, 1 #4, #6, #7 and #8s. Zero #5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16s. What St Peter’s did (15 seed reaching the E8) has happened once.
Of course in any single elimination tournament there are upsets but when a 1seed wins 64% of the time and a 1,2 or 3 wins it 90% of the time I think it’s fair to say that the very top teams dominate the tournament.
Nothing TAMU said is inconsistent with this.
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Yep.
Like you, I choose to be an optimist: NIL will not destroy college basketball; and Marquette will end up doing A-OK, at least as well as we have in the first 45 post-Al years.
If others want to get all doom-and-gloomy about it, that's their right, even if they have no basis for their doom and gloom because there are far too many unanswered questions now.
In the 45 post Al year’s MU has 1 FF, 1 E8 and 3 S16s. That’s A-OK to you, Mike?
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Nothing TAMU said is inconsistent with this.
Untrue. The NCAA tournament is not “the great equalizer”. It’s the tournament of chalk.
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Untrue. The NCAA tournament is not “the great equalizer”. It’s the tournament of chalk.
So, like all college sports then
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Untrue. The NCAA tournament is not “the great equalizer”. It’s the tournament of chalk.
He was comparing it to college football. Theoretically anyone in college basketball can win the tournament. That's not the case with football.
He also said that memorable runs can happen without winning the tournament. Which is true.
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In the 45 post Al year’s MU has 1 FF, 1 E8 and 3 S16s. That’s A-OK to you, Mike?
I'd like better, Tony, definitely.
I'll amend that to say that I'm optimistic we can get back to at least our 2003-13 level -- 1 FF, 1 E8, 2 S16, tourney just about every year -- and that would be A-OK with me. Though, sure, I'd of course love even better than that. Who wouldn't?
As far as the overarching topic at hand ... until I see evidence otherwise, I'll stick with my belief that NIL won't ruin college basketball.
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Yeah, like taking a guy out after pitching 7 innings of perfect ball.
Keep pounding on that dead horse. You are asking for a guy who has had injuries in 7 of the last 8 years to keep firing at the beginning of the season after a short Spring training.
Mind boggling.
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This argument holds zero weight and is an insult to professional athletes
Boring.
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Boring.
I have noticed - almost universally - that those who say this are not sports fans.
They are simply fans of where they went to college. And that's fine. If you are happy watching lesser athletes with lesser skills, enjoy it.
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Fair enough! Go Golden Eagles!
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It's only GREAT for the game if competitive balance is maintained, and that's not what is happening.
Professional leagues understand this, and that's why we have salary caps, luxury taxes, and drafts that let the worst performers pick first. The pro leagues understand that it's not as entertaining for fans if only a handful of teams can afford to buy their way to championships.
The Premiere league disagrees
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The Premiere league disagrees
Oh, come on! The Blackburn Rovers won the Championship in 94-95!!!!!
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In my opinion, the boring comment comes more from the idea the regular season is devalued in pro sports, NBA especially. That results in the load management and the idea guys are coasting.
I think your random Tuesday night NBA games is far higher quality than your typical college game, but the stakes are lower. NFL doesn’t have that issue due to being only 16 games.
However, I think to the general fan, College Basketball is a one month sport. Also, football most teams are out of the championship running before the season starts or shortly into the season.
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Boring.
Honesty often is
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Yep.
Like you, I choose to be an optimist: NIL will not destroy college basketball; and Marquette will end up doing A-OK, at least as well as we have in the first 45 post-Al years.
If others want to get all doom-and-gloomy about it, that's their right, even if they have no basis for their doom and gloom because there are far too many unanswered questions now.
I think your last sentence is accurate. We do have too many unanswered questions to really know how it will all play out. My only concern is other teams poaching our best players yearly. Because if that happens we won’t get even close to post Al success. Our best players would leave before that success could be had.
In the first few months of this new age of transferring and NIL we lost Garcia. In hindsight that was ok based on multiple issues that we don’t need to get into. But if this were to happen again to Lewis if he doesn’t turn pro, then it will be apparent we are no longer competing for tournament runs.
As you said. We don’t know yet. Let’s hope MU steps up. I would definitely contribute to an NIL fund if it was available. It might be small change but with large numbers of contributors it would add up in a hurry.
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I think your last sentence is accurate. We do have too many unanswered questions to really know how it will all play out. My only concern is other teams poaching our best players yearly. Because if that happens we won’t get even close to post Al success. Our best players would leave before that success could be had.
In the first few months of this new age of transferring and NIL we lost Garcia. In hindsight that was ok based on multiple issues that we don’t need to get into. But if this were to happen again to Lewis if he doesn’t turn pro, then it will be apparent we are no longer competing for tournament runs.
As you said. We don’t know yet. Let’s hope MU steps up. I would definitely contribute to an NIL fund if it was available. It might be small change but with large numbers of contributors it would add up in a hurry.
Someone smarter and with more ambition than me needs to start an NIL collective. Here's a list of other schools having one:
https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-university-specific-nil-collectives/ (https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-university-specific-nil-collectives/)
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I think your last sentence is accurate. We do have too many unanswered questions to really know how it will all play out. My only concern is other teams poaching our best players yearly. Because if that happens we won’t get even close to post Al success. Our best players would leave before that success could be had.
In the first few months of this new age of transferring and NIL we lost Garcia. In hindsight that was ok based on multiple issues that we don’t need to get into. But if this were to happen again to Lewis if he doesn’t turn pro, then it will be apparent we are no longer competing for tournament runs.
As you said. We don’t know yet. Let’s hope MU steps up. I would definitely contribute to an NIL fund if it was available. It might be small change but with large numbers of contributors it would add up in a hurry.
We'll see, Shooter!
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Someone smarter and with more ambition than me needs to start an NIL collective. Here's a list of other schools having one:
https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-university-specific-nil-collectives/ (https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-university-specific-nil-collectives/)
100% agree.
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No, it is the going through the motions. They can get paid all they want. I am not paying their salary. If someone wants to pay them and people want to pay tickets, what do I care?
So is your argument that players will stop trying now that they are getting paid?
Are college athletes the only people in the world who aren't motivated by compensation?
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So, like all college sports then
Exactly.
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So is your argument that players will stop trying now that they are getting paid? How would I know whether a player will stop trying or not?
Are college athletes the only people in the world who aren't motivated by compensation? Again, that is an individual athlete's choice. I can't answer that question.
Ultimately it is in the control of the fan, if the quality of play is not there, they will be turning their attention to items they are feel are of higher value for them.
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Ultimately it is in the control of the fan, if the quality of play is not there, they will be turning their attention to items they are feel are of higher value for them.
OK, but that's always been the case. I just don't see how NIL changes that.
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OK, but that's always been the case. I just don't see how NIL changes that.
It’s a straw man argument against players getting compensated. This weird belief players only played for the jersey and not themselves as amateurs. It’s always been a stupid argument about the moral superiority of the college game
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I am not for or against.
I do not know if it will help, hurt or keep the same quality there.
I say let it happen.
If CBB ends up in a dumpster, no one could have predicted it and we just shrug our shoulders.
If the emphasis is money though, I have to believe schools with the biggest coffers are going to win big. Myself, giving money to NIL so a Marquette star stays a Marquette star is ridiculous. It just is not that important to me. But what the heck, successful coaches shop for schools that can offer them bigger paychecks why not the players.
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It’s a straw man argument against players getting compensated. This weird belief players only played for the jersey and not themselves as amateurs. It’s always been a stupid argument about the moral superiority of the college game
I think the discussion is much more nuanced than that and don't agree with aspects of your general conclusion. The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not, revere those experiences far more than their pro career. Now because of the new transfer rules, things have definitely changed. But for those fortunate enough to play high D-1 basketball I don't think they would trade those years when they reminisce as old men. Also, the vast majority of people have college friends for life. The social dynamic is much different sitting on an NBA or pro bench. I'm not saying the college game is "morally superior" but I do think internally it means more to a high percentage of ballers.
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Keep pounding on that dead horse. You are asking for a guy who has had injuries in 7 of the last 8 years to keep firing at the beginning of the season after a short Spring training.
Mind boggling.
Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.
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Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.
Why take precautions?
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Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.
1: "I won't drive if I have to wear a seat belt!"
2: "Seat Belts reduce the risk of injury in a car accident"
1: "But you can still get injured if you wear a seat belt, why wear one at all?"
2: ???
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I think the discussion is much more nuanced than that and don't agree with aspects of your general conclusion. The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not, revere those experiences far more than their pro career. Now because of the new transfer rules, things have definitely changed. But for those fortunate enough to play high D-1 basketball I don't think they would trade those years when they reminisce as old men. Also, the vast majority of people have college friends for life. The social dynamic is much different sitting on an NBA or pro bench. I'm not saying the college game is "morally superior" but I do think internally it means more to a high percentage of ballers.
You may be right, but what does this have to do with anything being discussed in this thread?
Also, are you close enough with a significant amount of "greatest NBA players" to know that "much more often than not" they revere their time in college more than they do in the pros?
Also, even if time in college does "mean more to a high percentage of ballers", do you think that high percentage of ballers also wishes they could have gotten paid for their NIL in college? Cause if the answer is yes, then your point is irrelevant. If the answer is no, you're lying to yourself.
Again, I get the competitive balance concerns. They are logical, they make sense. I do not get this idea that college basketball is somehow better because the players are unpaid.
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Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.
You pitch him so you have a good chance to win. You pull him because you want him around in October.
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You may be right, but what does this have to do with anything being discussed in this thread?
Also, are you close enough with a significant amount of "greatest NBA players" to know that "much more often than not" they revere their time in college more than they do in the pros?
Also, even if time in college does "mean more to a high percentage of ballers", do you think that high percentage of ballers also wishes they could have gotten paid for their NIL in college? Cause if the answer is yes, then your point is irrelevant. If the answer is no, you're lying to yourself.
Again, I get the competitive balance concerns. They are logical, they make sense. I do not get this idea that college basketball is somehow better because the players are unpaid.
I never wrote it was "better". I do think they play harder night in and night out. As far as getting paid the competitive balance is a concern among several other concerns. It could lead to better overall talent in college hoops. At the same time if a player is offered 2, 3, 4, 5 times the money to transfer that's when things could really go South imo. I think before we draw clear conclusions we have to wait and see how this plays out.
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Via Jeff Goodman
"Agents ALL OVER these college guys for NIL because they can make 15-20 percent off NIL as opposed to 4 percent off salary."
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Via Jeff Goodman
"Agents ALL OVER these college guys for NIL because they can make 15-20 percent off NIL as opposed to 4 percent off salary."
Great.
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The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not, revere those experiences far more than their pro career.
They do? You’re just going to assert this as fact?
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Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.
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Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.
Why do you like watching amateurs?
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I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won? Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.
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Lots of nba guys looking very uninterested tonight. Probably too worried about their “bling” and automobiles.
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Lots of nba guys looking very uninterested tonight. Probably too worried about their “bling” and automobiles.
This is not the regular season panda.
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This is not the regular season panda.
Do teams get to the post season by not caring ?
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Do teams get to the post season by not caring ?
No, but there are games where guys sit out as well as those where they go through the motions for various reasons.
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Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.
Is Jay Wright some miracle story? Some plucky underdog? He coached a school that had a title, multiple FFs, and 8 modern era E8s before he arrived and was routinely a top 10 or 20 team for a decade before he won a title. They were the team with "advantages" that were always in the top 20 you mention.
Its crazy how NBA players never played driveway ball with their friends. Its been only about money since they were 6 years old.
I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won? Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.
Tell me you don't watch the NBA without telling me you don't watch the NBA. All those NBA players definitely quit the minute they are tired. They have big paychecks and don't even work in between games, just eat caviar and champagne and chill. They have no work ethic or hustle like college kids.
You take the "gritty" winners who have no chance of playing pro ball, much less the NBA, and I'll take the 5-6 18 year old kids who play for G League Ignite instead of college...and you'll get TROUNCED.
I bet you thought Tim Tebow would be a great NFL QB too cause he "wanted it more" and just had such a "will to win" and work ethic.
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We all agree that college programs make millions of dollars and the players never got a fair share of the pie. and now there's NIL. I agree players should be compensated. Some of you got scholarships, probably not full rides like our bb heroes at MU. Many business majors went on to honor their school. And lawyers and such. And they couldn't imagine ever dunking a basketball. Name me one player in the years around 95 or 96. BUT we should always acknowledge a brave Warrior like James Foley. RIP. That is who we are.
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Name me one player in the years around 95 or 96.
Pieper, is that you?
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No, but there are games where guys sit out as well as those where they go through the motions for various reasons.
To the extent this is true it's because the NBA season is too long. Make it thirty games like college basketball and you'd see a big difference.
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I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won? Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.
I don’t see any difference in hustle or energy in college v NBA. I think yours is a tired narrative that isn’t accurate
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To the extent this is true it's because the NBA season is too long. Make it thirty games like college basketball and you'd see a big difference.
The NBA regular season is a grind and yeah players sit out games from time to time. But the “go through the motions” is just bad analysis.
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Can a coach/school who has a player with a large NIL and the player is willing to pay his own way declare him a walk on that would not impact the cap on scholarships? Is there a limit to the number of walk ons a team can have?
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Can a coach/school who has a player with a large NIL and the player is willing to pay his own way declare him a walk on that would not impact the cap on scholarships? Is there a limit to the number of walk ons a team can have?
No limits on walk ons, on the NIL I would imagine there is a restriction on that.
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No limits on walk ons, on the NIL I would imagine there is a restriction on that.
There is not.
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There is not.
Interesting way to get around the scholarship limit.
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I doubt you will see it happen very often.
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It's just another strawman argument, unless the schools with the biggest NIL deals also find a way to play more than 5-on-5. Think about it, if you've got 13 scholarships, plus 1 or 2 pay their own way through NIL players, how is any coach going to keep 15 players happy with game time?
The question hasn't been posed here yet, but since it's the offseason it's only a matter of time. Even if Jlew leaves, and no one else comes, we're at 12, with no real obvious red shirt candidate. Gold maybe, just because he's more of an unknown, but I'd have to imagine their are minutes for him if he's a true 7 footer. Jones are Ross have both been billed as players that can contribute from day one. I can't really see anyone else being a candidate. How would we balance the 12 players minutes?
I know that's a good problem to have, it's on Shaka to manage, and if someone gets left behind they'd be a transfer candidate, but now imagine that situation with 3 more players. Unless someone's NIL deal is so much that they don't mind not getting any PT, I don't think this situation will ever happen.
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It's just another strawman argument, unless the schools with the biggest NIL deals also find a way to play more than 5-on-5. Think about it, if you've got 13 scholarships, plus 1 or 2 pay their own way through NIL players, how is any coach going to keep 15 players happy with game time?
The question hasn't been posed here yet, but since it's the offseason it's only a matter of time. Even if Jlew leaves, and no one else comes, we're at 12, with no real obvious red shirt candidate. Gold maybe, just because he's more of an unknown, but I'd have to imagine their are minutes for him if he's a true 7 footer. Jones are Ross have both been billed as players that can contribute from day one. I can't really see anyone else being a candidate. How would we balance the 12 players minutes?
I know that's a good problem to have, it's on Shaka to manage, and if someone gets left behind they'd be a transfer candidate, but now imagine that situation with 3 more players. Unless someone's NIL deal is so much that they don't mind not getting any PT, I don't think this situation will ever happen.
Really? Were there not some here saying NIL ($ amounts) would not affect team cohesion, but now you say playing time will?
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Really? Were there not some here saying NIL ($ amounts) would not affect team cohesion, but now you say playing time will?
Well...yeah. A perceived unfairness in the lack of playing time has torn apart teams both professionally and in college before. (Not to mention in high school, youth teams, etc.) Hell, half of my Marquette intramurals team quit in a huff over playing time.
But I have yet to see teams break apart due to differences in income.
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I'll put it this way, until there is an actual example of a player paying his own way through their NIL money, I will continue to believe that it's a strawman argument. The deals last year were big enough that it could have happened, and they appear to be even bigger this year, and there are still no reports of it being considered an option.
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Here is new Warrior Eagle Zaide Lowery talking about relationships (from the Marquette Wire):
Smart’s importance on building relationships helped set Marquette apart from the other schools that showed interest in Lowery.
“They were about the only school (that) really made sure like I felt like they really wanted me there and made me feel like it was just a family thing,” Lowery said. “The other schools that I had offers from didn’t really like text me a whole bunch to check up on me.”
Lowery said he created a close relationship with Marquette assistant coach Neill Berry during the recruiting process, as Berry served as the “main guy” amongst Smart’s assistants.
“He really just making sure that I’m good, like not even just about basketball all the time,” Lowery said. “They’re always asking me how I’m doing and normally he (Berry) FaceTimes me sometimes. Him (Berry) keeping up with me is a big part of me and him in this player-coach relationship.”
Since his official visit to Marquette back in November, Lowery said he has stayed in touch with first-year guard Kam Jones and first-year forward David Joplin.
Mitch McHenry, Lowery’s high school coach, said since Marquette first made contact last July they were “very hands on” in getting to know Lowery as a person both on and off the court.
“With their caliber of recruiting and how thorough they’ve been, they’ve been the best coaching staff that we have experienced in our program that recruited one of our kids,” McHenry said.
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I'll put it this way, until there is an actual example of a player paying his own way through their NIL money, I will continue to believe that it's a strawman argument. The deals last year were big enough that it could have happened, and they appear to be even bigger this year, and there are still no reports of it being considered an option.
...but it is still an option. I wonder if any agents have even consider negotiating it on behalf of a player who really would like to play for that school as an inducement arguing that it would free up a scholarship for the coach.
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Interesting times in CBB.
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Well...yeah. A perceived unfairness in the lack of playing time has torn apart teams both professionally and in college before. (Not to mention in high school, youth teams, etc.) Hell, half of my Marquette intramurals team quit in a huff over playing time.
But I have yet to see teams break apart due to differences in income.
quit over PT? ha
Wasn’t your approach shoot to get hot shoot to stay hot no shot a bad shot?
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...but it is still an option. I wonder if any agents have even consider negotiating it on behalf of a player who really would like to play for that school as an inducement arguing that it would free up a scholarship for the coach.
This has always been an option. Do you think that the folks that payed Brian Bowen wouldn't have dropped the extra money for him to pay his own way and not use one of Slick Rick's scholarships?
The closest anyone has ever come to the scenario that you're describing is when daddy McD gave away Douggie's scholarship when he thought he was going pro, only for him to return and be a preferred walk on, scholarship still 100% payed by the University through dads salary.
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I doubt you will see it happen very often.
Agreed, the only way I see it happening is for a title contender needing that one last player to put them over the top that wasn’t available when they originally filled out the scholarships. A late spring/early summer arrangement. Still cheating but not universal.
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Hell, half of my Marquette intramurals team quit in a huff over playing time.
Did they write a letter?
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If Justin doesn't enter the transfer portal by Sunday, to my understanding he will either be back at Marquette or remain in the draft.
The consensus seems to be anywhere from 40 to undrafted. Currently 283 names in the NBA Draft pool with 58 (I believe) draft picks this year.
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To me it is the free transfer rule that makes the NIL bad.
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To me it is the free transfer rule that makes the NIL bad.
So you don't believe that athletes in basketball, football, hockey and baseball should have the same freedom-of-movement ability that athletes in every other sport have enjoyed for decades?
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One just needs to come to grips that college basketball is a professional sport now with paid athletes.
The challenge to Marquette and Shaka & staff is how to put a competitive team on the floor yearly without having a bottomless purse.
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Hell, half of my Marquette intramurals team quit in a huff over playing time.
Did it get you a spot in the starting lineup?
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To me it is the free transfer rule that makes the NIL bad.
Maybe the next jump in the NIL evolution will be contracts with set playing lengths as in other professional sports.
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So you don't believe that athletes in basketball, football, hockey and baseball should have the same freedom-of-movement ability that athletes in every other sport have enjoyed for decades?
Mike,
I think bilsu means that the NIL by itself is OK but adding the free transfer rule to the equation is problematic. The NIL provision officially makes the top athletes in the revenue producing sports (football and basketball) professionals. Professionals who begin their careers as free agents who then have an opt out (another free agency) after one, two or three years with the school/team they originally signed with. That’s a much better deal than they’ll ever have in the rest of their professional careers.
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Did it get you a spot in the starting lineup?
I was the sixth man. The offensive spark off the bench.
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Maybe the next jump in the NIL evolution will be contracts with set playing lengths as in other professional sports.
You guys know how NIL deals work or just complaining about something you don’t understand?
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You guys know how NIL deals work or just complaining about something you don’t understand?
Easy answers no / yes
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I was the sixth man. The offensive spark off the bench.
Did you dunk?
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Did you dunk?
Very much a below the rim, mid-range guy. Kind of a 80s power forward type.
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Mike,
I think bilsu means that the NIL by itself is OK but adding the free transfer rule to the equation is problematic. The NIL provision officially makes the top athletes in the revenue producing sports (football and basketball) professionals. Professionals who begin their careers as free agents who then have an opt out (another free agency) after one, two or three years with the school/team they originally signed with. That’s a much better deal than they’ll ever have in the rest of their professional careers.
It's not the least bit problematic to me, Tony. They are college students who now have the same rights that all the other college students have. I'm glad they're getting a great "deal." They work hard to entertain us, and to bring respect and money to their universities, and they deserve it. If it results in some of them bringing respect and money to more than one university, that's cool too. It's nice to see the young men and women who make high-level college sports possible finally get a small slice of the pie - and yes, even $1 million is a small slice relative to the size of the pie.
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Scouting report on Justin Lewis.
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w
(https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w)
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Scouting report on Justin Lewis.
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w
(https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w)
He gowne
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Scouting report on Justin Lewis.
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w
(https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/now-loading-justin-lewis?s=w)
I don't know who the author of the piece is, but he makes a compelling argument for a guy most of us already know is a darn good player.
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I don't know who the author of the piece is, but he makes a compelling argument for a guy most of us already know is a darn good player.
He’s lazy.
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He gowne
Hopefully! We need another Marquette representative in the NBA.
He can be the next example of why a skilled forward should want to play for Shaka. I hope the hype picks up for Justin and gets him drafted in the 1st round.
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Hopefully! We need another Marquette representative in the NBA.
He can be the next example of why a skilled forward should want to play for Shaka. I hope the hype picks up for Justin and gets him drafted in the 1st round.
granted, I’m a selfish SOB, but I’d rather have good Marquette players stay at Marquette.
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granted, I’m a selfish SOB, but I’d rather have good Marquette players stay at Marquette.
He can rep MU in the NBA draft a year from now.
I too, must be selfish to want my favorite team to be good, and have their best players stick around as long as possible.
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He’s lazy.
Well, we know Justin is lazy because we read that on Scoop. But is the writer lazy, too?
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Well, we know Justin is lazy because we read that on Scoop. But is the writer lazy, too?
No, a lot of his words seem disinterested
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No, a lot of his words seem disinterested
Yeah the body language of the article was bad
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Yeah the body language of the article was bad
I only read articles that are 1,977 words
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Not posted on infowars, can't be legit.
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Whether he stays or not, we will have an awesome BB team next year.
I look forward to all the positive reinforcement from MUSCOOP.
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He gowne
It's no Bleacher Report.
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Hopefully! We need another Marquette representative in the NBA.
He can be the next example of why a skilled forward should want to play for Shaka. I hope the hype picks up for Justin and gets him drafted in the 1st round.
We need another 1st team BE player so maybe our team, you know the one we spend so much time supporting, has a better chance of actually winning an NCAA tournament game.
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We need another 1st team BE player so maybe our team, you know the one we spend so much time supporting, has a better chance of actually winning an NCAA tournament game.
But we don't need any player - 1st team BE or not - who was recruited by the WOAT.
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We need another 1st team BE player so maybe our team, you know the one we spend so much time supporting, has a better chance of actually winning an NCAA tournament game.
Glad we agree.
More will come to Marquette as a result of Justin making the league as a drafted Sophomore.
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This seems relevant to the discussion of how NIL will impact team chemistry. Isaiah Wong from Miami is demanding more NIL money or he's going to transfer out after Nigel Pack got his $800,000 deal to transfer to Miami.
NIL agent says Miami hoops star Isaiah Wong will enter transfer portal if NIL compensation isn't increased (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33823826/nil-agent-says-miami-hoops-star-isaiah-wong-enter-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-increased)
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This seems relevant to the discussion of how NIL will impact team chemistry. Isaiah Wong from Miami is demanding more NIL money or he's going to transfer out after Nigel Pack got his $800,000 deal to transfer to Miami.
NIL agent says Miami hoops star Isaiah Wong will enter transfer portal if NIL compensation isn't increased (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33823826/nil-agent-says-miami-hoops-star-isaiah-wong-enter-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-increased)
I wouldn't call that team chemistry. It's the offseason. NIL will absolutely lead to some players transferring to other schools in search of a bigger pay day.
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This seems relevant to the discussion of how NIL will impact team chemistry. Isaiah Wong from Miami is demanding more NIL money or he's going to transfer out after Nigel Pack got his $800,000 deal to transfer to Miami.
NIL agent says Miami hoops star Isaiah Wong will enter transfer portal if NIL compensation isn't increased (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33823826/nil-agent-says-miami-hoops-star-isaiah-wong-enter-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-increased)
Seems like he’s wong gone.
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Seems like he’s wong gone.
Wong walks.
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I wouldn't call that team chemistry. It's the offseason. NIL will absolutely lead to some players transferring to other schools in search of a bigger pay day.
This particular case seems to lack the culture of retention. Wong took a Miami team that had no business advancing, to the Elite 8.
Miami pays someone else to come in and are content with just ditching Wong?
I guess it's all a learning curve with NIL and stuff like this will probably happen every year.
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It's not the least bit problematic to me, Tony. They are college students who now have the same rights that all the other college students have. I'm glad they're getting a great "deal." They work hard to entertain us, and to bring respect and money to their universities, and they deserve it. If it results in some of them bringing respect and money to more than one university, that's cool too. It's nice to see the young men and women who make high-level college sports possible finally get a small slice of the pie - and yes, even $1 million is a small slice relative to the size of the pie.
So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
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So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
I have similar concerns.
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So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
Yes they would really be playing for Marquette.
There might not be an upside for Marquette. NIL is still good for the sport and more importantly it was the right and ethical thing to do
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So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
Then let the school know you want them to drop scholarships and adopt the Ivy League model. I’m sure plenty of DIII leagues would take Marquette.
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So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
When you went to class, were you just doing it to bring glory to Marquette? Or did you maybe use what you learned at Marquette to make a career that helped yourself?
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So they're no longer playing for Marquette or any University, they are playing for themselves. As an alum I root for my school and I just don't see any upside for Marquette in all of this. I may be wrong but my gut is telling me otherwise; unless there is someone out there to offer players 800k to play for Marquette and then are they really playing for Marquette.
You're really on a roll with this stuff.
Keep losing sleep about things that haven't happened and that might not happen, OK? It's good for the heart.
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Seems like he’s wong gone.
You appear to be wong.
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So, do we expect to hear about JLew by the end of this weekend?
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So, do we expect to hear about JLew by the end of this weekend?
If he's not in the portal by Monday, it's either NBA or Marquette. FWIW he just posted a new Uncle Buck's ad on his Insta.
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Yes they would really be playing for Marquette.
There might not be an upside for Marquette. NIL is still good for the sport and more importantly it was the right and ethical thing to do
ethical? You had me until you lost me
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You're really on a roll with this stuff.
Keep losing sleep about things that haven't happened and that might not happen, OK? It's good for the heart.
It is already happening. Wang might leave or stay at Miami for more money; and Marquette basketball is the last thing I would leave sleep over. I will savor our only National Championship as it will take a miracle or a lot of cash just to have a chance at winning another one.
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Yes they would really be playing for Marquette.
There might not be an upside for Marquette. NIL is still good for the sport and more importantly it was the right and ethical thing to do
...and the administration will do to basketball what they did to football in 1960 because it was just too expensive to field a competitive team at the high D1 level.
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...and the administration will do to basketball what they did to football in 1960 because it was just too expensive to field a competitive team.
So be it
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...and the administration will do to basketball what they did to football in 1960 because it was just too expensive to field a competitive team.
Obviously that is the worst case scenario. Third or fourth class citizen is more likely. And you are right about no NC aspirations. MU needs to be a player in NIL or many of us will no longer have a true rooting interest in CBB tens years down the road.
Come on MU!
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Obviously that is the worst case scenario. Third or fourth class citizen is more likely. And you are right about no NC aspirations. MU needs to be a player in NIL or many of us will no longer have a true rooting interest in CBB tens years down the road.
Come on MU!
I hope I am around ten years down the road to see if you guys are right and I am wrong.
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If he's not in the portal by Monday, it's either NBA or Marquette. FWIW he just posted a new Uncle Buck's ad on his Insta.
Justin’s Ad
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc3gK3-paeZ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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muwarrior69
In the past week alone, you have 23 posts on this just this thread, yet you state that Marquette basketball is the last thing you would lose sleep over.
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...and the administration will do to basketball what they did to football in 1960 because it was just too expensive to field a competitive team at the high D1 level.
Approximately 320ish teams would fold before Marquette did. Are you predicting the end of college basketball?
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ethical? You had me until you lost me
You think artificially limiting individuals income from hundreds of thousands to zero is ethical? Sounds like socialism to me
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It's not the least bit problematic to me, Tony. They are college students who now have the same rights that all the other college students have. I'm glad they're getting a great "deal." They work hard to entertain us, and to bring respect and money to their universities, and they deserve it. If it results in some of them bringing respect and money to more than one university, that's cool too. It's nice to see the young men and women who make high-level college sports possible finally get a small slice of the pie - and yes, even $1 million is a small slice relative to the size of the pie.
D1 scholarship athletes receive a lot of privileges not afforded to other college students. Special privileges often come with some restrictions and responsibilities. Any college athlete who wants to give up those privileges and become just a “regular college student” can do so at any time. Now that college athletes have officially and openly become professionals why shouldn’t they be treated as such? I’m not saying they should be drafted out of high school but 2 shots at free agency by the time they’re 19 or 20 seems over the top. Letting Kentucky throw money at our players every year is one thing. Letting them do it without any transfer restrictions is another.
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You think artificially limiting individuals income from hundreds of thousands to zero is ethical? Sounds like socialism to me
No, that's not socialism. Socialism would be sharing that revenue between the institution and all the athletes, not just the one signing the deal. That would've been a perfectly acceptable alternative had it been suggested before all the NIL legislation went into effect.
This was more like indentured servitude, at best.
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Approximately 320ish teams would fold before Marquette did. Are you predicting the end of college basketball?
OK, hyperbole on my part; but I still believe that it would take a miracle or a lot of cash for Marquette to have a chance at winning a NC and I don't see the administration spending as much money on Basketball as they do now if we are not competitive to compete to win a NC. It is the main reason I watch and root for the team is that we always had a shot even under Crean and Buzz. Shaka may be great coach, but if he can't keep players because there "greener pastures" for the players elsewhere it will be difficult to put a competitive team on the floor. Maybe there are sponsors out there, just have to wait and see. No doubt NIL is good for the athletes, but that does not necessarily translate to being good for Marquette basketball.
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muwarrior69
In the past week alone, you have 23 posts on this just this thread, yet you state that Marquette basketball is the last thing you would lose sleep over.
OK, second to last thing.
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OK, hyperbole on my part; but I still believe that it would take a miracle or a lot of cash for Marquette to have a chance at winning a NC and I don't see the administration spending as much money on Basketball as they do now if we are not competitive to compete to win a NC. It is the main reason I watch and root for the team is that we always had a shot even under Crean and Buzz. Shaka may be great coach, but if he can't keep players because there "greener pastures" for the players elsewhere it will be difficult to put a competitive team on the floor. Maybe there are sponsors out there, just have to wait and see. No doubt NIL is good for the athletes, but that does not necessarily translate to being good for Marquette basketball.
Anyone who wants MU to succeed at the highest level has this in the back of their minds. Some in the forefront. We’ll see if MUBB organizers and donors step up. If they don’t we’ll all be on our favorite pro team’s scoop page and not this one in a few years. And our alma mater will have lost some of it luster. It’s definitely not in MUs best interest to let basketball fail.
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OK, hyperbole on my part; but I still believe that it would take a miracle or a lot of cash for Marquette to have a chance at winning a NC and I don't see the administration spending as much money on Basketball as they do now if we are not competitive to compete to win a NC. It is the main reason I watch and root for the team is that we always had a shot even under Crean and Buzz. Shaka may be great coach, but if he can't keep players because there "greener pastures" for the players elsewhere it will be difficult to put a competitive team on the floor. Maybe there are sponsors out there, just have to wait and see. No doubt NIL is good for the athletes, but that does not necessarily translate to being good for Marquette basketball.
To be fair - long before NIL, it would’ve taken a miracle or loads of cash to win a NC too.
Nothing different now except we can potentially compete on the cash side of things if we stay ahead of our peers.
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When you went to class, were you just doing it to bring glory to Marquette? Or did you maybe use what you learned at Marquette to make a career that helped yourself?
I seem to recall a business transaction of course fees/tuition for classes.
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You think artificially limiting individuals income from hundreds of thousands to zero is ethical? Sounds like socialism to me
socialism would be shared ‘wealth’. I’m a capitalist 100%, but still need to get my mind around NIL when we’re talking six-figures AND full scholarships, especially at high tuition private schools.
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To be fair - long before NIL, it would’ve taken a miracle or loads of cash to win a NC too.
Nothing different now except we can potentially compete on the cash side of things if we stay ahead of our peers.
I don't recall that any of our '77 players received loads of cash to play for Marquette. The miracle part I can buy.
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Anyone who wants MU to succeed at the highest level has this in the back of their minds. Some in the forefront. We’ll see if MUBB organizers and donors step up. If they don’t we’ll all be on our favorite pro team’s scoop page and not this one in a few years. And our alma mater will have lost some of it luster. It’s definitely not in MUs best interest to let basketball fail.
I"m a Knicks fan and haven't really followed them since the early 70s. Perhaps if they were more competitive.
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socialism would be shared ‘wealth’. I’m a capitalist 100%, but still need to get my mind around NIL when we’re talking six-figures AND full scholarships, especially at high tuition private schools.
“I’m a capitalist unless I think someone is making too much money.”
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OK, hyperbole on my part; but I still believe that it would take a miracle or a lot of cash for Marquette to have a chance at winning a NC
How is that different than pre-NIL?
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No, that's not socialism. Socialism would be sharing that revenue between the institution and all the athletes, not just the one signing the deal. That would've been a perfectly acceptable alternative had it been suggested before all the NIL legislation went into effect.
This was more like indentured servitude, at best.
Yeah but I think Socialism is a dirtier word than indentured servitude for some.
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D1 scholarship athletes receive a lot of privileges not afforded to other college students. Special privileges often come with some restrictions and responsibilities. Any college athlete who wants to give up those privileges and become just a “regular college student” can do so at any time. Now that college athletes have officially and openly become professionals why shouldn’t they be treated as such? I’m not saying they should be drafted out of high school but 2 shots at free agency by the time they’re 19 or 20 seems over the top. Letting Kentucky throw money at our players every year is one thing. Letting them do it without any transfer restrictions is another.
Depending on the school, lots of non-athletes get scholarships, and not only need-based. The editor of the Marquette Wire is a perfect example, and yet he or she could transfer from Marquette to Notre Dame at any time and immediately become the editor of the Domer Dope-Disher -- wouldn't have to sit out a year in between editing gigs. He or she also can make as much money as he or she wants from his or her NIL. Many schools have theater and orchestra majors on scholarships, too, and those young ladies and men can make good coin on their Insta accounts.
And there absolutely are transfer restrictions -- a basketball, football, baseball or hockey athlete only gets one free transfer unless he or she obtains a waiver.
Did you know that wrestling, swimming, volleyball, lacrosse, softball and other athletes have always had the right to transfer without sitting out a year of competition? Why should a wrestler getting a full ride at Iowa (where wrestling is a major sport) or volleyball at UCLA (where volleyball is huge) have rights that a basketball, football or baseball player doesn't? Thankfully, he or she no longer does. Many volleyball players are making big bank on NIL, too.
But hey, we certainly are free to worry or whine about this stuff. It's just not gonna change anything. Hope all is well with you and yours, Tony.
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OK, hyperbole on my part; but I still believe that it would take a miracle or a lot of cash for Marquette to have a chance at winning a NC and I don't see the administration spending as much money on Basketball as they do now if we are not competitive to compete to win a NC. It is the main reason I watch and root for the team is that we always had a shot even under Crean and Buzz. Shaka may be great coach, but if he can't keep players because there "greener pastures" for the players elsewhere it will be difficult to put a competitive team on the floor. Maybe there are sponsors out there, just have to wait and see. No doubt NIL is good for the athletes, but that does not necessarily translate to being good for Marquette basketball.
Memo To:muwarrior69
From: Herman Cain
Subject: MU Basketball NIL Competiveness
You have repeatedly expressed concern that MU’s basketball competitiveness is going to go the way of The Dodo bird due to a lack of ability to compete in NIL.Fear not.
Here is the reason why: Money is fungible .
MU spends a lot on basketball . MU also has many avid donors to athletics.
MU has the resources to make NIL happen to retain the best players in the program. MU will figure out the way to get the dollars and donors allocated in a way to conform with NIL rules and regulations.
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Memo To:muwarrior69
From: Herman Cain
Subject: MU Basketball NIL Competiveness
You have repeatedly expressed concern that MU’s basketball competitiveness is going to go the way of The Dodo bird due to a lack of ability to compete in NIL.Fear not.
Here is the reason why: Money is fungible .
MU spends a lot on basketball . MU also has many avid donors to athletics.
MU has the resources to make NIL happen to retain the best players in the program. MU will figure out the way to get the dollars and donors allocated in a way to conform with NIL rules and regulations.
Yep.
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How is that different than pre-NIL?
Unless there is evidence to the contrary our NC was not bought and paid for and I'll take the miracle any day.
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Unless there is evidence to the contrary our NC was not bought and paid for and I'll take the miracle any day.
Comparing college basketball now to 1977 isn’t really helpful.
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Unless there is evidence to the contrary our NC was not bought and paid for and I'll take the miracle any day.
You said an NC would take a lot of money, not that an NC needed to be bought and paid for. Marquette invested a ton into basketball during the Al years and yes it was a miracle.
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Memo To:muwarrior69
From: Herman Cain
Subject: MU Basketball NIL Competiveness
You have repeatedly expressed concern that MU’s basketball competitiveness is going to go the way of The Dodo bird due to a lack of ability to compete in NIL.Fear not.
Here is the reason why: Money is fungible .
MU spends a lot on basketball . MU also has many avid donors to athletics.
MU has the resources to make NIL happen to retain the best players in the program. MU will figure out the way to get the dollars and donors allocated in a way to conform with NIL rules and regulations.
From your lips to Gods ears Herman. If we do that and Shaka can coach em up, the future is bright.
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Depending on the school, lots of non-athletes get scholarships, and not only need-based. The editor of the Marquette Wire is a perfect example, and yet he or she could transfer from Marquette to Notre Dame at any time and immediately become the editor of the Domer Dope-Disher -- wouldn't have to sit out a year in between editing gigs. He or she also can make as much money as he or she wants from his or her NIL. Many schools have theater and orchestra majors on scholarships, too, and those young ladies and men can make good coin on their Insta accounts.
And there absolutely are transfer restrictions -- a basketball, football, baseball or hockey athlete only gets one free transfer unless he or she obtains a waiver.
Did you know that wrestling, swimming, volleyball, lacrosse, softball and other athletes have always had the right to transfer without sitting out a year of competition? Why should a wrestler getting a full ride at Iowa (where wrestling is a major sport) or volleyball at UCLA (where volleyball is huge) have rights that a basketball, football or baseball player doesn't? Thankfully, he or she no longer does. Many volleyball players are making big bank on NIL, too.
But hey, we certainly are free to worry or whine about this stuff. It's just not gonna change anything. Hope all is well with you and yours, Tony.
How much is Notre Dame going to pay the editor of the MU Tribune to transfer? How much is MU paying him or her now? Rules are different for professional football and basketball players than they are for people who write about them. College football and basketball players are now professionals. Do you think professional sports should do away with drafts and let college players pick their teams? And after they pick one, should they be free agents again in year two?
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How much is Notre Dame going to pay the editor of the MU Tribune to transfer? How much is MU paying him or her now? Rules are different for professional football and basketball players than they are for people who write about them. College football and basketball players are now professionals. Do you think professional sports should do away with drafts and let college players pick their teams? And after they pick one, should they be free agents again in year two?
Yes and yes on the last two questions. Universal free agency would be awesome
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I don't recall that any of our '77 players received loads of cash to play for Marquette. The miracle part I can buy.
We’ve made the title game twice and haven’t done it since 77. We’re not the major player that you’re painting us to be.
I for one am shocked Kentucky basketball found the money to pay the best college basketball player to stay in school and the university of Miami is throwing stacks of cash and guys.
Seriously what are we talking about here ?
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You said an NC would take a lot of money, not that an NC needed to be bought and paid for. Marquette invested a ton into basketball during the Al years and yes it was a miracle.
...a lot of cash to pay/buy players. As you say NIL is the player's money and not Marquette's. Most of these high level D1 basketball players won't be going to these schools for an education but for the money. If Marquette sunk a lot of money into the Basketball program I certainly did not see it. Most of the players dormed at Schroeder when I was there and the guys practiced in the old gym, not the palace, by comparison, they call the AL today.
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...a lot of cash to pay/buy players. As you say NIL is the player's money and not Marquette's. Most of these high level D1 basketball players won't be going to these schools for an education but for the money. If Marquette sunk a lot of money into the Basketball program I certainly did not see it. Most of the players dormed at Schroeder when I was there and the guys practiced in the old gym, not the palace, by comparison, they call the AL today.
I remember when broads couldn’t vote and didn’t wear pants. Life was so much better
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Yeah butt now, ya don't know hoo's a broad and hoo's a dude. Sometimes ya just gotta stand 'em on der head and take a look, hey?
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Unless there is evidence to the contrary our NC was not bought and paid for and I'll take the miracle any day.
Honest question as I wasn't around then....it helped that racism was more prevalent in cbb and Al benefited from recruiting players other schools wouldn't?
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Honest question as I wasn't around then....it helped that racism was more prevalent in cbb and Al benefited from recruiting players other schools wouldn't?
I do not think Al recruited players other schools wouldn’t, other then Bill Neary, every kid might have been a Top 20 player in the country. Many Top 5, the ones with jerseys hung up at the Forum!
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I do not think Al recruited players other schools wouldn’t, other then Bill Neary, every kid might have been a Top 20 player in the country. Many Top 5, the ones with jerseys hung up at the Forum!
The early Al years there were still a lot of southern teams that would not recruit blacks. When we played Kentucky in NCAA tournament, Sophomore Chones was playing against Kentucky's first black player. I forget his name, but he was a sophomore 7'1' center. after the season he got convicted of rape and sent to prison. It would not of surprised me at all, if he was set up and falsely convicted of rape.
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Saw this about a former Montana punter now at Nebraska getting some NIL from Dentists……. 8-)
’Kick away tooth decay’
Former Griz All-American punter Brian Buschini, who’s now at Nebraska, landed a unique Name, Image and Likeness deal with a dentist in Lincoln, Nebraska.
“He’s going to set up a little commercial and ‘kick away tooth decay,’” Buschini said in a video interview with local media in Nebraska on Tuesday.
He noted that the dentist approached him about the NIL deal. He added that he’s had a couple NIL opportunities since transferring to Nebraska after the 2021 season.
“I’m hoping to get some more (NIL deals) because I got to find a way to pay for my wife’s school too,” Buschini said. “So, that’s what we’re working on.”
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The early Al years there were still a lot of southern teams that would not recruit blacks. When we played Kentucky in NCAA tournament, Sophomore Chones was playing against Kentucky's first black player. I forget his name, but he was a sophomore 7'1' center. after the season he got convicted of rape and sent to prison. It would not of surprised me at all, if he was set up and falsely convicted of rape.
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Tom Payne
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Honest question as I wasn't around then....it helped that racism was more prevalent in cbb and Al benefited from recruiting players other schools wouldn't?
Most schools were recruiting black players when Al started at MU, everyone was recruiting them half way through his tenure. But Al established real relationships with his players and they helped recruit the players who followed. There was racism everywhere but he made Marquette a more desirable environment than most other universities.
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Al was the quintessential “player’s coach” before that term was even a thing. He would be brilliant in this era.
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The early Al years there were still a lot of southern teams that would not recruit blacks. When we played Kentucky in NCAA tournament, Sophomore Chones was playing against Kentucky's first black player. I forget his name, but he was a sophomore 7'1' center. after the season he got convicted of rape and sent to prison. It would not of surprised me at all, if he was set up and falsely convicted of rape.
I always wondered why Chones went pro right before the tournament. Why would a contract be worth more before the tournament than after? It seems like it was some kind of take it or leave it deal. I'm sure there were players at UCLA that were just as sought after. I don't blame Chones as I would have taken the money as well it is just the timing of it all as I think it cost us a NC as we were that good that year.
I'm sure there are folks here who know more about it than I can recall.
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Yes and yes on the last two questions. Universal free agency would be awesome
If no unions/collective bargaining agreements were the other half of that equation it would be an interesting experiment. Maybe it would be awesome. But it’ll never happen. It would scare the sh!t out of both management and labor. Both sides have it too good to try it.
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How much is Notre Dame going to pay the editor of the MU Tribune to transfer? How much is MU paying him or her now? Rules are different for professional football and basketball players than they are for people who write about them. College football and basketball players are now professionals. Do you think professional sports should do away with drafts and let college players pick their teams? And after they pick one, should they be free agents again in year two?
Not sure what point you're trying to make in most of this, Tony, but it certainly doesn't refute what I said in my earlier post.
As for pro sports drafts ... I believe their structures, or at least some of their terms, are the result of collective bargaining between their leagues and players associations, so the athletes have a say.
But ideally, yes, athletes should have the freedom to determine their own destiny, just as you and I were allowed to choose our own paths within our chosen careers. And we were free to change jobs as often as we wanted, too.
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I always wondered why Chones went pro right before the tournament. Why would a contract be worth more before the tournament than after? It seems like it was some kind of take it or leave it deal. I'm sure there were players at UCLA that were just as sought after. I don't blame Chones as I would have taken the money as well it is just the timing of it all as I think it cost us a NC as we were that good that year.
I'm sure there are folks here who know more about it than I can recall.
ABA could offer before NBA draft and they wanted to make a big statement and offered what was an insane amount of money back then.
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And we were free to change jobs as often as we wanted, too.
You never had a non compete agreement?
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Not sure if this has been posted here. If so, my apologies. "Consensus" draft list. States RocNation is his agency.
https://www.rookiescale.com/2022-consensus-board/ (https://www.rookiescale.com/2022-consensus-board/)
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If no unions/collective bargaining agreements were the other half of that equation it would be an interesting experiment. Maybe it would be awesome. But it’ll never happen. It would scare the sh!t out of both management and labor. Both sides have it too good to try it.
Agreed. I think it would probably benefit ownership more long run as they’d be able to avoid disastrous contracts and the overall money would be less for labor
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But making SAs employees exposes them to all sorts of additional costs and liability. Under the current system, the only real potential "cost" to the school is the possibility of revenue that used to come to them but is now going into NIL. But no one really knows if that is happening yet.
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ABA could offer before NBA draft and they wanted to make a big statement and offered what was an insane amount of money back then.
Sure, but a bigger factor was that the owner of the Nets convinced Al that the NBA-ABA merger was imminent and that Chones would be losing out on a lot of money. Of course, the merger did not happen until a year or two later.
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To be fair, the merger would have happened earlier had the NBA Players Association not filed a lawsuit to prevent it.
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Yes, MU probably would have won the championship that year. An unbelievable team. Chones was a truly dominant player - and a hell of a nice guy. Chones went to Al to seek his advice and Al told him to grab the money, knowing that he was giving away a national championship. Al did it because it was in Jim Chones' best interest. No player deserved it more. Jim was friendly, polite, well-spoken, and just a great example of what a student athlete should be. And, even though he was an All-American, he was always willing, if he was around, to play some pick-up ball at the old gym with us mere mortals.
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If Justin doesn't transfer somewhere else what's the date where he has to decide to stay in the draft or come back to MU?
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If Justin doesn't transfer somewhere else what's the date where he has to decide to stay in the draft or come back to MU?
I believe that's 11:59 PM today.
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I believe that's 11:59 PM today.
Oh...I thought today was just him deciding not to transfer.
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If Justin doesn't transfer somewhere else what's the date where he has to decide to stay in the draft or come back to MU?
I believe that's 11:59 PM today.
1159 today is the deadline to answer the transfer portal and still be eligible for next season (though waivers are still possible after this date)
5pm EST June 13th is the deadline to withdraw from nba draft and retain ncaa eligibility
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I believe that's 11:59 PM today.
No it’s June 1. May 1 is the deadline to enter the portal and have immediate eligibility next year. So by the end of today we will know if he comes back to MU should he withdraw from the draft.
1159 today is the deadline to answer the transfer portal and still be eligible for next season (though waivers are still possible after this date)
5pm EST June 13th is the deadline to withdraw from nba draft and retain ncaa eligibility
June 13 is the NBA’s deadline. June 1 is the NCAA’s.
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No it’s June 1. May 1 is the deadline to enter the portal and have immediate eligibility next year. So by the end of today we will know if he comes back to MU should he withdraw from the draft.
June 13 is the NBA’s deadline. June 1 is the NCAA’s.
You are right, looked too quickly at google
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It seems to me there is no advantage to staying in the draft if you are not a guaranteed 1st rounder. I'm biased but with the NIL he should be able to rack up some ad coin in Milwaukee.
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1159 today is the deadline to answer the transfer portal and still be eligible for next season (though waivers are still possible after this date)
5pm EST June 13th is the deadline to withdraw from nba draft and retain ncaa eligibility
Speaking of waivers, could a legitimate waiver request be financial? Such as a different school has better NIL opportunities?
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It seems to me there is no advantage to staying in the draft if you are not a guaranteed 1st rounder. I'm biased but with the NIL he should be able to rack up some ad coin in Milwaukee.
Of course there are advantages. It's all a matter of personal preference. But NIL will make it easier for some of these guys to stay another year.
Speaking of waivers, could a legitimate waiver request be financial? Such as a different school has better NIL opportunities?
Seems unlikely
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Oh...I thought today was just him deciding not to transfer.
I read your question as basically being "what is his last day to transfer to another school?", but I'm glad that the June 1 deadline was mentioned as the last day he can withdraw from the draft and play college ball at Marquette this coming season.
I'm not expecting him to come back but who knows? There's time for a big NIL deal to surface, even if there are no rumors of one pending that I am aware of.
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It seems to me there is no advantage to staying in the draft if you are not a guaranteed 1st rounder. I'm biased but with the NIL he should be able to rack up some ad coin in Milwaukee.
Advantages to staying in the draft even if you’re not a guaranteed first-rounder:
++ Many 2nd-round picks do make their NBA team, and if you do you get a nice start at that big second contract.
++ Some athletes would rather not have to deal with the responsibility of college classes and assignments.
++ Getting coached by and playing against pros, whether at the NBA or G League level.
There are plenty of advantages to staying in school, too. I’m glad Justin has an opportunity to make this decision for himself.
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Advantages to staying in the draft even if you’re not a guaranteed first-rounder:
++ Many 2nd-round picks do make their NBA team, and if you do you get a nice start at that big second contract.
++ Some athletes would rather not have to deal with the responsibility of college classes and assignments.
++ Getting coached by and playing against pros, whether at the NBA or G League level.
There are plenty of advantages to staying in school, too. I’m glad Justin has an opportunity to make this decision for himself.
Also undrwfted free agents who secure two way contracts they pay 1/2 a rookie contract . $462,500 this season
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It seems to me there is no advantage to staying in the draft if you are not a guaranteed 1st rounder. I'm biased but with the NIL he should be able to rack up some ad coin in Milwaukee.
NBA is guaranteeing money for a lot of second-round picks these days. These are the first 15 picks in last year's second round:
31. Washington Wizards: Isaiah Todd, F, G League Ignite: Signed
Four-year, $6.89MM contract. First three years guaranteed.
32. Oklahoma City Thunder: Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, F, Villanova: Signed
Four-year, $7.89MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
33. Los Angeles Clippers: Jason Preston, G, Ohio: Signed
Three-year, $4.46MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
34. New York Knicks: Rokas Jokubaitis, G, Lithuania: Will play overseas
35. New Orleans Pelicans: Herb Jones, F, Alabama: Signed
Three-year, $5.32MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
36. New York Knicks: Miles McBride, G, West Virginia: Signed
Three-year, minimum-salary contract. First two years guaranteed.
37. Charlotte Hornets: JT Thor, F, Auburn: Signed
Four-year, $6.64MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
38. Chicago Bulls: Ayo Dosunmu, G, Illinois: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. Fully guaranteed.
39. Sacramento Kings: Neemias Queta, C, Utah State: Signed
Two-way contract.
40. Utah Jazz: Jared Butler, G, Baylor: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. Fully guaranteed.
41. San Antonio Spurs: Joe Wieskamp, F, Iowa: Signed
Two-way contract.
42 Detroit Pistons: Isaiah Livers, F, Michigan: Signed
Three-year, $4.46MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
43. Portland Trail Blazers: Greg Brown, F, Texas: Signed
Three-year, minimum-salary contract. First two years guaranteed.
44. Brooklyn Nets: Kessler Edwards, F, Pepperdine: Signed
Two-way contract.
45. Boston Celtics: Juhann Begarin, G, France: Will play overseas
46. Toronto Raptors: Dalano Banton, G, Nebraska: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. First year fully guaranteed. Second year partially guaranteed.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/2021-nba-draft-pick-signings.html
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Top half of the 2nd round makes more than any NIL deal out there in guaranteed money.
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NBA is guaranteeing money for a lot of second-round picks these days. These are the first 15 picks in last year's second round:
31. Washington Wizards: Isaiah Todd, F, G League Ignite: Signed
Four-year, $6.89MM contract. First three years guaranteed.
32. Oklahoma City Thunder: Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, F, Villanova: Signed
Four-year, $7.89MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
33. Los Angeles Clippers: Jason Preston, G, Ohio: Signed
Three-year, $4.46MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
34. New York Knicks: Rokas Jokubaitis, G, Lithuania: Will play overseas
35. New Orleans Pelicans: Herb Jones, F, Alabama: Signed
Three-year, $5.32MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
36. New York Knicks: Miles McBride, G, West Virginia: Signed
Three-year, minimum-salary contract. First two years guaranteed.
37. Charlotte Hornets: JT Thor, F, Auburn: Signed
Four-year, $6.64MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
38. Chicago Bulls: Ayo Dosunmu, G, Illinois: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. Fully guaranteed.
39. Sacramento Kings: Neemias Queta, C, Utah State: Signed
Two-way contract.
40. Utah Jazz: Jared Butler, G, Baylor: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. Fully guaranteed.
41. San Antonio Spurs: Joe Wieskamp, F, Iowa: Signed
Two-way contract.
42 Detroit Pistons: Isaiah Livers, F, Michigan: Signed
Three-year, $4.46MM contract. First two years guaranteed.
43. Portland Trail Blazers: Greg Brown, F, Texas: Signed
Three-year, minimum-salary contract. First two years guaranteed.
44. Brooklyn Nets: Kessler Edwards, F, Pepperdine: Signed
Two-way contract.
45. Boston Celtics: Juhann Begarin, G, France: Will play overseas
46. Toronto Raptors: Dalano Banton, G, Nebraska: Signed
Two-year, minimum-salary contract. First year fully guaranteed. Second year partially guaranteed.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/2021-nba-draft-pick-signings.html
Yes, excellent point.
If I had what I felt was reliable information that I'd be drafted, and if I didn't really love playing college hoops, I'd want to go pro.
But sure, there could be advantages to staying, too -- mostly getting to try to improve one's stock, and getting to play more college hoops if one loves it.
As we all know, though, one also can hurt one's stock by staying another year.
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No news on Justin and the portal yet, I assume?
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This is for Herman.
Jeenathan Williams, 96th prospect on the Athletics NBA draft big board!
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No news on Justin and the portal yet, I assume?
I assume so but am wondering why we haven't heard anything?
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I assume so but am wondering why we haven't heard anything?
Is there really a need for someone to say they haven’t entered the portal? I would assume no news is good news.
This is purely speculation, but I have to imagine Justin is pretty bought into Shaka’s style of coaching. It sounds like Shaka made him a priority and Justin really improved this last year.
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Yeah butt now, ya don't know hoo's a broad and hoo's a dude. Sometimes ya just gotta stand 'em on der head and take a look, hey?
you sound like my grandfather did in 1960's
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I assume so but am wondering why we haven't heard anything?
What would there be to hear? He has until June to decide if he's coming back or not
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What would there be to hear? He has until June to decide if he's coming back or not
I think the point is since the deadline has passed and there is no news of him entering the portal, is it safe to assume he didn’t and that his options are the draft or Marquette at this point?
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This is for Herman.
Jeenathan Williams, 96th prospect on the Athletics NBA draft big board!
Thanks. Excellent News.
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I think the point is since the deadline has passed and there is no news of him entering the portal, is it safe to assume he didn’t and that his options are the draft or Marquette at this point?
Yes
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I think the point is since the deadline has passed and there is no news of him entering the portal, is it safe to assume he didn’t and that his options are the draft or Marquette at this point?
Yes
Yes, though he could get a waiver still. But if you were planning on transferring why not just meet the deadline to cover your bases?
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He gowne, hey?
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Some of the NBA combine invites are dribbling out ; Ron Harper Jr , Julian Champagnie mentioned in article .
https://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/2022/05/ron-harper-jr-invited-to-nba-draft-combine.html
Seton Hall Rock Rhode gets a G League combine invite
https://www.nj.com/setonhall/2022/05/seton-hall-notebook-jared-rhoden-invited-to-nba-g-league-combine-brandon-weston-tyler-powell-latest-in-transfer-portal.html
Hopefully Justin gets an NBA combine invite soon
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You appear to be wong.
Its funny that John Ruiz stated he's not going to renegotiate his NIL deal with Wong, and that he can't tell the press on how much that current deal is for. But he can tell us what Pack's deal is for, and that there are all of these:
University
Sport
Position
# of Months
Total Payment
Alanys Viera Miami Volleyball Setter 12 $6,000.00
Andres Borregales Miami Football Kicker 12 $18,000.00
Angela Grieve Miami Volleyball Outside Hitter 12 $6,000.00
Brashard Smith Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Carson Palmquist Miami Baseball Left-handed Pitcher 4 $6,000.00
Chase Smith Miami Football Striker 12 $30,000.00
Clay James Miami Football Long Snapper 12 $12,000.00
Cleveland Reed Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $42,000.00
Cyrus Moss Miami Football Defensive End 12 $36,000.00
Delon Scaife Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
DJ Ivey Miami Football Cornerback 12 $43,000.00
Don Chaney Jr Miami Football Running Back 12 $30,000.00
Don Chaney Jr* Miami Football Running Back 12 $10,000.00
Elijah Arroyo Miami Football Tight End 12 $40,000.00
Frank Ladson, Jr. Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Gilbert Frierson Miami Football Striker 12 $50,000.00
Jacey Hinton Miami Swim Freestyle 12 $6,000.00
Jacob Lichenstin Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $36,000.00
Jacolby George Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Jahfari Harvey Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $36,000.00
Jake Garcia Miami Football Quarterback 24 $50,000.00
Jake Garcia* Miami Football Quarterback 24 $10,000.00
Jake Garland Miami Baseball Right-handed Pitcher 4 $6,000.00
Jalen Rivers Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
James Williams Miami Football Safety 12 $43,000.00
Jaylan Knighton Miami Football Running Back 12 $40,000.00
Kahil Brantly Miami Football Tight End 12 $18,000.00
Kamren Kinchens Miami Football Safety 12 $43,000.00
Keontra Smith Miami Football Striker 12 $18,000.00
Keyshawn Smith Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $45,000.00
Leonard Taylor Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $40,000.00
Leonard Taylor* Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $10,000.00
Malik Curtis Miami Football Cornerback 12 $12,000.00
Marcus Clarke Miami Football Cornerback 12 $18,000.00
Mason Napper Miami Football Long Snapper 12 $2,500.00
Matthew Antezana Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $2,500.00
Michael McLaughlin Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $12,000.00
Morgan Pankow Miami Golf 12 $15,000.00
Morgan Pankow* Miami Golf 12 $15,000.00
Nijel PackMiamiMBBGuard 24 800,000 plus car
Ousman Traore Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $12,000.00
Rivaldo Fairweather FIU Football Tight End 12 $40,000.00
Robbie Ashton Prosek II Miami Football Tight End 12 $5,000.00
Romello Brinson Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Ryan Rodriguez Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $18,000.00
Te'Cory Couch Miami Football Cornerback 12 $18,000.00
Thaddius Franklin Miami Football Running Back 12 $40,000.00
Tirek Austin Cave Miami Football Linebacker 12 $12,000.00
Tyler Van Dyke Miami Football Quarterback 12 $40,000.00
Tyler Van Dyke* Miami Football Quarterback 12 $20,000.00
Tyrese Chambers FIU Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Tyrique Stevenson Miami Football Cornerback 12 $45,000.00
Waynmon Steed Miami Football Linebacker 12 $18,000.00
Wesley Bissainthe Miami Football Linebacker 12 $30,000.00
Will Mallory Miami Football Tight End 12 $42,000.00
Xavier Restrepo Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Zion Nelson Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
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Its funny that John Ruiz stated he's not going to renegotiate his NIL deal with Wong, and that he can't tell the press on how much that current deal is for. But he can tell us what Pack's deal is for, and that there are all of these:
University
Sport
Position
# of Months
Total Payment
Alanys Viera Miami Volleyball Setter 12 $6,000.00
Andres Borregales Miami Football Kicker 12 $18,000.00
Angela Grieve Miami Volleyball Outside Hitter 12 $6,000.00
Brashard Smith Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Carson Palmquist Miami Baseball Left-handed Pitcher 4 $6,000.00
Chase Smith Miami Football Striker 12 $30,000.00
Clay James Miami Football Long Snapper 12 $12,000.00
Cleveland Reed Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $42,000.00
Cyrus Moss Miami Football Defensive End 12 $36,000.00
Delon Scaife Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
DJ Ivey Miami Football Cornerback 12 $43,000.00
Don Chaney Jr Miami Football Running Back 12 $30,000.00
Don Chaney Jr* Miami Football Running Back 12 $10,000.00
Elijah Arroyo Miami Football Tight End 12 $40,000.00
Frank Ladson, Jr. Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Gilbert Frierson Miami Football Striker 12 $50,000.00
Jacey Hinton Miami Swim Freestyle 12 $6,000.00
Jacob Lichenstin Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $36,000.00
Jacolby George Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Jahfari Harvey Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $36,000.00
Jake Garcia Miami Football Quarterback 24 $50,000.00
Jake Garcia* Miami Football Quarterback 24 $10,000.00
Jake Garland Miami Baseball Right-handed Pitcher 4 $6,000.00
Jalen Rivers Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
James Williams Miami Football Safety 12 $43,000.00
Jaylan Knighton Miami Football Running Back 12 $40,000.00
Kahil Brantly Miami Football Tight End 12 $18,000.00
Kamren Kinchens Miami Football Safety 12 $43,000.00
Keontra Smith Miami Football Striker 12 $18,000.00
Keyshawn Smith Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $45,000.00
Leonard Taylor Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $40,000.00
Leonard Taylor* Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $10,000.00
Malik Curtis Miami Football Cornerback 12 $12,000.00
Marcus Clarke Miami Football Cornerback 12 $18,000.00
Mason Napper Miami Football Long Snapper 12 $2,500.00
Matthew Antezana Miami Football Defensive Line 12 $2,500.00
Michael McLaughlin Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $12,000.00
Morgan Pankow Miami Golf 12 $15,000.00
Morgan Pankow* Miami Golf 12 $15,000.00
Nijel PackMiamiMBBGuard 24 800,000 plus car
Ousman Traore Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $12,000.00
Rivaldo Fairweather FIU Football Tight End 12 $40,000.00
Robbie Ashton Prosek II Miami Football Tight End 12 $5,000.00
Romello Brinson Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Ryan Rodriguez Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $18,000.00
Te'Cory Couch Miami Football Cornerback 12 $18,000.00
Thaddius Franklin Miami Football Running Back 12 $40,000.00
Tirek Austin Cave Miami Football Linebacker 12 $12,000.00
Tyler Van Dyke Miami Football Quarterback 12 $40,000.00
Tyler Van Dyke* Miami Football Quarterback 12 $20,000.00
Tyrese Chambers FIU Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Tyrique Stevenson Miami Football Cornerback 12 $45,000.00
Waynmon Steed Miami Football Linebacker 12 $18,000.00
Wesley Bissainthe Miami Football Linebacker 12 $30,000.00
Will Mallory Miami Football Tight End 12 $42,000.00
Xavier Restrepo Miami Football Wide Receiver 12 $40,000.00
Zion Nelson Miami Football Offensive Line 12 $43,000.00
All those guys except one will be switching to basketball.
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muwarrior69
I was thinking the same thing. As I have mentioned several times, I think the bulk of the money goes to football guys and the typical schools will get basketball money. i do not think we will crazy competition in the BE in the NIL world. Time will tell.
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Justin's latest retweet
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1521214514213142530?t=Kd0yB-wcg1RaTKZYQIROcg&s=19
Translation: He's back!
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Justin's latest retweet
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1521214514213142530?t=Kd0yB-wcg1RaTKZYQIROcg&s=19
Translation: He's back!
Bam???? How do you know?
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Bam???? How do you know?
It's a joke
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I do think there’s a decent chance he’s back. He’s smart to go through the process and get feedback, but there’s a reason he hired an NCAA certified agent. 50/50 IMO.
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It's a joke
Damn. I now have to recalibrate everything.
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I do think there’s a decent chance he’s back. He’s smart to go through the process and get feedback, but there’s a reason he hired an NCAA certified agent. 50/50 IMO.
Aren’t many NBA agents now NCAA certified? Regardless he’s with ROC Nation, which reps a lot of NBA guys.
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Aren’t many NBA agents now NCAA certified? Regardless he’s with ROC Nation, which reps a lot of NBA guys.
Many are, but not all of the high profile agents bother with it. Maybe a better way to phrase that would have been there’s a reason he stated that he was maintaining his eligibility.
I don’t think it’s a done deal he’s back. Not even close. I just think those saying he’s gone are incorrect. From what I’ve heard it’s truly a toss up depending on the evaluation he receives.
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Many are, but not all of the high profile agents bother with it. Maybe a better way to phrase that would have been there’s a reason he stated that he was maintaining his eligibility.
I don’t think it’s a done deal he’s back. Not even close. I just think those saying he’s gone are incorrect. From what I’ve heard it’s truly a toss up depending on the evaluation he receives.
Gotcha.
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Here's the list of NCAA certified agents:
https://web3.ncaa.org/AgentCertification/#/AgentDirectory (https://web3.ncaa.org/AgentCertification/#/AgentDirectory)
Wanna be an agent? Here's the process.
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2019/1/24/agent-certification.aspx (https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2019/1/24/agent-certification.aspx)
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https://gomarquette.com/news/2022/5/2/general-marquette-athletics-taps-altius-sports-to-expand-nil-program
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https://gomarquette.com/news/2022/5/2/general-marquette-athletics-taps-altius-sports-to-expand-nil-program
Until we see some actual movement, I am going to give this a big yawn. Altius is partnered with a boatload of schools. Nothing to set us apart, IMO.
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Until we see some actual movement, I am going to give this a big yawn. Altius is partnered with a boatload of schools. Nothing to set us apart, IMO.
Just wait a minute, it'll come
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Just wait a minute, it'll come
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMDdxbsakAAah9r.jpg)
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Just wait a minute, it'll come
That's what he said.
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There it is.
(https://c.tenor.com/yheDW37vSO8AAAAC/thor-hammer.gif)
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There it is.
(https://c.tenor.com/yheDW37vSO8AAAAC/thor-hammer.gif)
I've been compared to worse things than the God of Thunder
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Just wait a minute, it'll come
That's better. Maybe this year's commencement speaker will get some of the spare change from his couch and announce something that day.
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The Athletic's Sam Vecenie just updated his top-100 "big board," and he has Justin Lewis at #43. JL was the only Big East player in the top 50.
Others of note:
1. Jabari Smith
2. Chet Holmgren
3. Paolo Banchero
12. Johnny Davis
20. Patrick Baldwin
60. Julian Champagnie
71. Baylor Scheierman
75. Drew Timme
84. Johnny Juzang
89. Collin Gillespie
92. Jared Rhoden
96. Jeenathan Williams
100. Javon Freeman-Liberty
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Baldwin ain't matriculatin' at MU, hey?
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Did Justin get a Draft Combine invite?
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Did Justin get a Draft Combine invite?
Can't imagine why he wouldn't but haven't been any updates yet.
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Should know probably by tomorrow. There have been quite a few announcements in the last 2 days by players that they have been invited, so we should get the full list shortly.
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The Atlantic now has Justin at 43rd. As recently as March 10th, they had him at 26th.
Nothing in the article to explain the drop.
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The Atlantic now has Justin at 43rd. As recently as March 10th, they had him at 26th.
Nothing in the article to explain the drop.
They read Scoop
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Cartier decided to sign with CSU, good sign Justin is back
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Cartier decided to sign with CSU, good sign Justin is back
Ummm pretty irrelevent.
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Ummm pretty irrelevent.
What's your source?
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I don't think Marquette had much interest in Cartier. Outside of our initial contact, I haven't heard us mentioned with him for weeks.
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What's your source?
The fact that we have not been invovled with Cartier for a long long time. And it was never at any point a him or Justin thing.
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The Atlantic now has Justin at 43rd. As recently as March 10th, they had him at 26th.
Nothing in the article to explain the drop.
CBS Sports has him 25th. I don't know about the thought he could play his way into the lottery with a big year next season considering NBA teams aren't big on players who have been in college more than two years.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2022-nba-draft-top-10-prospects-facing-tough-stay-or-go-decisions-as-they-go-through-pre-draft-process/
This might not be the hard decision some think it is -- I have Lewis as a top-25 guy on the CBS Sports Big Board, making him a clear first-round talent -- but it's unclear if the NBA sees him the same way. And admittedly, I'm higher on him than most. Guilty.
But 6-7 wings who can shoot 35% from 3-point range, have long wingspans and can defend in space are always going to have roles in the NBA. That much we know. He'll be drafted. How high he'll go is probably the sticking point here. If he stays in college, we're looking at maybe an All-American talent in 2022-23 and a potential lottery guy next year. Doesn't feel like there's a wrong decision for him.
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CBS Sports has him 25th. I don't know about the thought he could play his way into the lottery with a big year next season considering NBA teams aren't big on players who have been in college more than two years.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2022-nba-draft-top-10-prospects-facing-tough-stay-or-go-decisions-as-they-go-through-pre-draft-process/
This might not be the hard decision some think it is -- I have Lewis as a top-25 guy on the CBS Sports Big Board, making him a clear first-round talent -- but it's unclear if the NBA sees him the same way. And admittedly, I'm higher on him than most. Guilty.
But 6-7 wings who can shoot 35% from 3-point range, have long wingspans and can defend in space are always going to have roles in the NBA. That much we know. He'll be drafted. How high he'll go is probably the sticking point here. If he stays in college, we're looking at maybe an All-American talent in 2022-23 and a potential lottery guy next year. Doesn't feel like there's a wrong decision for him.
One, please.
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Can he defend in space?
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https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/05/nba-draft-big-board-ranking-top-100-prospects-jabari-smith-jaden-ivey-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero
Justin checks in at #33, up from #38
33. Justin Lewis, F, Marquette | Sophomore
Height: 6' 7" | Weight: 245 | Age: 20 | Last rank: 38
Lewis comes off a breakout sophomore season, in which he emerged as a legitimate perimeter shooter with complementary skills as a rebounder and defender. There’s reason to buy his improved jumper, and he fits a viable mold as an athletic, floor-spacing forward (think Trey Murphy in last year’s draft) if he stays on track. He’s not going to create a ton of shots for himself or teammates, but there’s enough ability here to think it can work. He has a long, projectable frame, but doesn’t always put it to use in the flow of the game—if Lewis embraces doing the small stuff, there’s a pathway to him becoming a valuable contributor. He’ll need to convince teams he can be more versatile—if one were confident he’d be able to switch on the perimeter and make the occasional play, it would help—but he just turned 20 and offers upside, and first-round potential.
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Can he defend in space?
The lack of gravity makes it hard.
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He gowne.
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Lmao, well played
The lack of gravity makes it hard.
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The lack of gravity makes it hard.
Blocks a lot of shots, though.
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Get him an X-wing fighter.
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Don’t really care to read this 40 page thread. What’s the synopsis on Justin? When does he have to remove his name from draft while retaining eligibility? Appreciate it in advance.
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Don’t really care to read this 40 page thread. What’s the synopsis on Justin? When does he have to remove his name from draft while retaining eligibility? Appreciate it in advance.
June 1st. His stock fell at first but has recently risen. Stays that way, he gowne.
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Lots of “he gowne” comments. Is this via sources/inside knowledge or the fact that he’s low 40s on most mock drafts/big boards?
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Lots of “he gowne” comments. Is this via sources/inside knowledge or the fact that he’s low 40s on most mock drafts/big boards?
From what I've heard, it has always been dependent on the feedback he gets from NBA teams. That feedback seems to have been positive so far. Therefore....
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https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/05/nba-draft-big-board-ranking-top-100-prospects-jabari-smith-jaden-ivey-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero
Justin checks in at #33, up from #38
Glad to see his stock rising, but still absolute risk in getting lost in second round obscurity. I have to imagine he is still very much weighing his options.
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Glad to see his stock rising, but still absolute risk in getting lost in second round obscurity. I have to imagine he is still very much weighing his options.
The second round isn't as obscure as it used to be.
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The second round isn't as obscure as it used to be.
How's that? There's still only limited places on NBA rosters, and teams now have the G league, along with other avenues, to pick up players to fill those limited places. Makes me think that it could be even tougher for a second-rounder to make a roster than is used to be.
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How's that? There's still only limited places on NBA rosters, and teams now have the G league, along with other avenues, to pick up players to fill those limited places. Makes me think that it could be even tougher for a second-rounder to make a roster than is used to be.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63243.msg1446699#msg1446699
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Glad to see his stock rising, but still absolute risk in getting lost in second round obscurity. I have to imagine he is still very much weighing his options.
I suppose there are "absolute risks" to going. Of course, there are risks to staying, too.
He has an NCAA-sanctioned agent, parents, a coach and others in his orbit to help him weigh the risks (and benefits) so he can make the right choice for himself.
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The second round isn't as obscure as it used to be.
very true, but I do not envy him nor any player who rates anywhere between "end of first round to undrafted" (unless it's Tshweibe). We are starting to see more second round guys make the league and get contracts, be it a two-way deal or a guaranteed deal immediately (thank you Draymond Green and Nikola Jokic) and with less attention being paid to developmental Euros more domestic college players are signing deals - the last two years are classic examples with 14 second round picks each year who signed guaranteed or partially guaranteed deals.
Good luck to Mr. Lewis. I hope he is getting good advice with people who care about him, not themselves (as we've seen with NFL draft entries).
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/2021-nba-draft-pick-signings.html
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/2020-nba-draft-pick-signings.html
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He bent over and blew MU a kiss, hey?
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How's that? There's still only limited places on NBA rosters, and teams now have the G league, along with other avenues, to pick up players to fill those limited places. Makes me think that it could be even tougher for a second-rounder to make a roster than is used to be.
NBA rosters are bigger than they used to be.
Players are scouted way better than they were and a lot of the G League is 2nd rounders.
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The second round isn't as obscure as it used to be.
True, and not getting drafted isn’t the end of the world. Just heard an interesting stat - 8 players on the Miami Heat playoff roster were undrafted.
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True, and not getting drafted isn’t the end of the world. Just heard an interesting stat - 8 players on the Miami Heat playoff roster were undrafted.
Yep, and one of those guys - Duncan Robinson - is now being paid $90M to be rooted to the bench. He’s been replaced on the court by another, Max Strus.
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New draft article from USA Today today that doesn't include Justin in their list of 58:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-2022-lottery-date-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren (https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-2022-lottery-date-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren)
"We have included a few other players who are testing the waters (e.g. Terquavion Smith, Josh Minott, David Roddy, Jalen Williams, etc.) in this mock draft. But some big names (e.g. Max Christie, Justin Lewis, Harrison Ingram, Jabari Walker, Dalen Terry, Caleb Houstan, etc.) were omitted.
"The second group of players would all likely get selected in the NBA draft if they opt to turn pro. But I believe that they would likely earn a better position in the draft if they return to college for another season and instead declare for the draft next year. "
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Fast forward to just past the 16:00 mark. Conversation on Justin Lewis begins.
They say he could go anywhere from 25-45, but if he stayed could wind up being an All-American lottery pick next year. All this to say he has a tough decision to make, but ultimately there is no wrong decision.
https://youtu.be/vCRQinAGTCI
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Praying he gets the best advice available to him and makes the best decision for his future. Aka I hope he's told he needs another year so we can win more games.
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Fast forward to just past the 16:00 mark. Conversation on Justin Lewis begins.
They say he could go anywhere from 25-45, but if he stayed could wind up being an All-American lottery pick next year. All this to say he has a tough decision to make, but ultimately there is no wrong decision.
https://youtu.be/vCRQinAGTCI
Thanks for posting. The two individuals in this podcast cover College Basketball , so they have good knowledge of Justin and were he ranks in the pecking order of things.
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Yep, and one of those guys - Duncan Robinson - is now being paid $90M to be rooted to the bench. He’s been replaced on the court by another, Max Strus.
in a playoff series. 31 and 26 mpg during the regular season is hardly "rooted to the bench." I'm sure he never imagined such hardship when he was suiting up for the nightly Purple Ephs of Williams College.
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Yes, that’s right, Billy … right now, in the games that matter most, Robinson is rooted to the bench.
He’s averaging 11 mpg through 2 playoff series … he didn’t play at all in 3 of the last 4 games … and this being rooted to the bench came after he averaged only 17 mins in April, when he lost his starting job.
Very chicos-like of you to argue for the sake of arguing despite easily verifiable facts.
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The Heat are shooting 14 for their last 65 on three point attempts. They also paid Duncan Robinson $90M solely based on his ability to shoot three pointers. Yet he's playing roughly the same minutes I am in the Eastern Conference Semifinals.
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Yes, that’s right, Billy … right now, in the games that matter most, Robinson is rooted to the bench.
He’s averaging 11 mpg through 2 playoff series … he didn’t play at all in 3 of the last 4 games … and this being rooted to the bench came after he averaged only 17 mins in April, when he lost his starting job.
Very chicos-like of you to argue for the sake of arguing despite easily verifiable facts.
😂
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The Heat are shooting 14 for their last 65 on three point attempts. They also paid Duncan Robinson $90M solely based on his ability to shoot three pointers. Yet he's playing roughly the same minutes I am in the Eastern Conference Semifinals.
It's not like Strus is amazing out there either.
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It's not like Strus is amazing out there either.
I'm as shocked as anyone that Strus is a regular NBA player, but I think he's a bit more versatile than Robinson.
Kind of remarkable how once teams got a season of Robinson as a regular player/starter, his 3P percentage promptly dropped. He was unreal in 19-20, tailed off in the playoffs a bit. Tailed off even more in 20-21, then got PAID...and then he was pretty dang pedestrian from deep this year. If he doesn't turn it around next year, he'll be approaching Chandler Parsons ROI.
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justin is the diffrence between dancing and not next yr
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justin is the diffrence between dancing and not next yr
I think they dance regardless
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I think they dance regardless
I think whatever they do next year would have happened regardless of what Justin chooses. Justin just makes them better. Gives them the ability to advance further.
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just like they were not going to be dancing this past year? what next, they only going to score in the 50's routinely next year?
justin is the diffrence between dancing and not next yr
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I'm as shocked as anyone that Strus is a regular NBA player, but I think he's a bit more versatile than Robinson.
Kind of remarkable how once teams got a season of Robinson as a regular player/starter, his 3P percentage promptly dropped. He was unreal in 19-20, tailed off in the playoffs a bit. Tailed off even more in 20-21, then got PAID...and then he was pretty dang pedestrian from deep this year. If he doesn't turn it around next year, he'll be approaching Chandler Parsons ROI.
Oh no doubt that Strus is more versatile than Robinson. I just am not convinced he is THAT versatile enough to compensate for the Heat's lack of shooting.
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Oh no doubt that Strus is more versatile than Robinson. I just am not convinced he is THAT versatile enough to compensate for the Heat's lack of shooting.
To be fair, Robinson shot 40/37/84 this year. Strus, in similar minutes, shot 44/41/80. So based on the balance of this year, he's actually been the better shooting option. His shooting percentages this year are actually better than Robinson's last year as well.
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To be fair, Robinson shot 40/37/84 this year. Strus, in similar minutes, shot 44/41/80. So based on the balance of this year, he's actually been the better shooting option. His shooting percentages this year are actually better than Robinson's last year as well.
Well that's more than fair. This is what happens when you base your opinions of a team on a few playoff games.
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I am guessing based on past years , NBA may announce their Combine and G League combine invites tomorrow .
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I am guessing based on past years , NBA may announce their Combine and G League combine invites tomorrow .
G league is out.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1523733390780149761
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So, are some players named to both combines, or an either or deal?
Does not being named to the G League combine make it more or less likely Justin will be named to the NBA combine?
Thanks
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So, are some players named to both combines, or an either or deal?
Does not being named to the G League combine make it more or less likely Justin will be named to the NBA combine?
Thanks
My guess is given some of the names in the G League Combine, is that Justin will get the NBA combine invite.
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Officially invited:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1524194179726942208
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Officially invited:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1524194179726942208
Weird the NBA likes him more than some of the Scoop Scouts
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Weird the NBA likes him more than some of the Scoop Scouts
Good riddance, I hear...
/teal - not my opinion, and I also don't think OMP is going to "easily" replace Justin next year. They both showed some promise their first year in the Marquette program. Justin showed WAY more, under the worst coach ever. Ok, maybe I missed some teal.
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Weird the NBA likes him more than some of the Scoop Scouts
Ha! There’s only one ding dong who doesn’t like him and he has dementia.
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There's like 76 dudes invited. Way more than I expected.
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Ha! There’s only one ding dong who doesn’t like him and he has dementia.
Aw, leave FD Doc Dribble alone.
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Nah man...didn't know the Buffoon was postin' on Scoop, hey?
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i can see justin making his way to the show. he's got a high b-ball IQ, knows his limitations, uses his body well, has a knack for being where he needs to be. i'm sure he's been honing his skills in off season against diverse groups of varying talents. he kinda reminds me of a former baller ya'll very familiar with and quite shocked at his rise amongst some of the elites to the level he has achieved...yup f'ing jimmy b. where he goes obviously remains to be seen, but justin's got a good head on his shoulders and he's one tough baltimore hombre
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I think Justin compares more with Jae than Jimmy. His offense is ahead of his defense at this point. Jae has grown to be a better defensive player, but neither was like Jimmy in college.
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G league is out.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1523733390780149761
Buddy Boeheim got an invite?
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Buddy Boeheim got an invite?
6'6" forward who can shoot....sure.
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Justin not listed on the Roc Nation roster (https://www.rocnation.com/sports-category/basketball/) but they have a page set up for him (https://www.rocnation.com/sports/justin-lewis/).
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Justin not listed on the Roc Nation roster (https://www.rocnation.com/sports-category/basketball/) but they have a page set up for him (https://www.rocnation.com/sports/justin-lewis/).
he's probably with Sam Permut, who is one of the NCAA approved agents for student-athletes testing the waters. So he's a client but not a client.
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Oh no doubt that Strus is more versatile than Robinson. I just am not convinced he is THAT versatile enough to compensate for the Heat's lack of shooting.
Have you watched their playoff games? Strus is the real deal.
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Have you watched their playoff games? Strus is the real deal.
The "real deal?" He's like the fourth option, MAYBE the third, on offense when he is on the floor. You can replace him with a dozen similar players and the Heat would not miss a beat.
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdbPoqbJ1DO/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
He gowne, hey?
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdbPoqbJ1DO/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
He gowne, hey?
Signed with an ncaa certified agent so maybe ? Maybe not ? This doesn’t change anything
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Any Scoop sleuths find out how Justin did on Day 1 of the combine? Asking for a friend.
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Any Scoop sleuths find out how Justin did on Day 1 of the combine? Asking for a friend.
someone said lazy and lethargic, but I’m not buyin’.
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someone said lazy and lethargic, but I’m not buyin’.
That cracked me up. Nice. And don't forget about bad body language!
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Any Scoop sleuths find out how Justin did on Day 1 of the combine? Asking for a friend.
Lets hope it was good but not too good so we can win some games next year.
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What did his neck measure at? If he wants to come back to Marquette, I'm going to need that number in the low 20s.
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https://theathletic.com/3312706/2022/05/17/nba-mock-draft-2022/
#49 to Sacramento.
Interestingly, Sam has PBJ at #29 with no guarantee that he stays in the draft.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2022-nba-mock-draft-7-magic-secure-top-spot-plus-complete-1st-and-2nd-round-picks-163142882.html
#37 to the Kings
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Does anyone else see what good reason the NCAA has to force a player to stay in the draft and forego school? To me, it feels like an arbitrary punishment to not allow a kid to come back to school if they don't get drafted.
Like, what is the reasoning?
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Does anyone else see what good reason the NCAA has to force a player to stay in the draft and forego school? To me, it feels like an arbitrary punishment to not allow a kid to come back to school if they don't get drafted.
Like, what is the reasoning?
I think head coaches want to have an idea of what their roster is going to be as early as possible.
The NCAA did allow more freedom in the past. Larry Bird was drafted but stayed in school for a year. There was a time in the late 80s when players could be drafted, choose to be in school and re-enter the next year.
Now that there are better options (G-League, two way contracts, etc.) available, I don't think it is unreasonable to require a player to make a choice by a certain deadline.
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I think head coaches want to have an idea of what their roster is going to be as early as possible.
The NCAA did allow more freedom in the past. Larry Bird was drafted but stayed in school for a year. There was a time in the late 80s when players could be drafted, choose to be in school and re-enter the next year.
Now that there are better options (G-League, two way contracts, etc.) available, I don't think it is unreasonable to require a player to make a choice by a certain deadline.
Ehhhhhh, flimsy. I get it, but it still feels punitive. The NCAA could leave it up to the individual universities to make that decision.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I don't think it is unreasonable to require a player to make a choice by a certain deadline.
Neither do I, but make the deadline something like 48 hours after the draft.
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Neither do I, but make the deadline something like 48 hours after the draft.
As long as the team continues to hold his draft rights.
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Somehow college hockey players can be drafted (and the best ones are drafted before college) and it isn't an issue.
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As long as the team continues to hold his draft rights.
Sure. That's reasonable.
Somehow college hockey players can be drafted (and the best ones are drafted before college) and it isn't an issue.
Yep.
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Hollinger doesn’t have him in the top 20.
https://theathletic.com/3317217/2022/05/18/nba-draft-2022-top-20-prospects/
But he doesn’t have Johnny Davis either and hears it in the comments from someone’s whose comp is… Devin Booker.
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Hollinger doesn’t have him in the top 20.
https://theathletic.com/3317217/2022/05/18/nba-draft-2022-top-20-prospects/
But he doesn’t have Johnny Davis either and hears it in the comments from someone’s whose comp is… Devin Booker.
Thats a hilariously bad comp. Booker had a 121 o rtg, 21% usage, and shot 82-53-41. Johnny Davis is great. He has a 103 o rtg, 30% usage, and shot 79-46-30.
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Justin has the best measurables of any wing in the draft. If there's belief he has even average potential, someone will take a flier.
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The post-lottery mock that Sam Vecenie did for the Athletic though has Davis at #14 to the Cavs.
And Justin #49 to the Kings.
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I’d love to see the Bucks take him. He’s a pretty good fit for what they need and I think he can develop defensively with the right coaching
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Justin has the best measurables of any wing in the draft. If there's belief he has even average potential, someone will take a flier.
Very similar measurements to OG Anunoby and PJ Washington. Solid, but not spectacular athletic testing: 32.5 inch no step vertical, 35 max vert. At least he didn't crater like Pat Baldwin: 23.5 & 26.5.
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The post-lottery mock that Sam Vecenie did for the Athletic though has Davis at #14 to the Cavs.
And Justin #49 to the Kings.
Two different philosophies. Sam is more on what he thinks will happen. Hollinger’s is more of what he thinks he would do (draft lots of big wings).
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Justin has the best measurables of any wing in the draft. If there's belief he has even average potential, someone will take a flier.
Is he really a wing. I know he has to be in the NBA, but I look at him as a tweener.
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Justin's measurables are really high as noted above.
However he seems to have dropped in mocks in the past week or so.
Today and Tomorrow are huge days for him.
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The post-lottery mock that Sam Vecenie did for the Athletic though has Davis at #14 to the Cavs.
And Justin #49 to the Kings.
Monte McNair is GM of the Kings. And as of Tuesday Anjali Ranadive, daughter of Sacramento Kings owner Vivek Ranadive, is the new Assistant General Manager of the G League Stockton Kings, according to multiple sources. She is with the Kings in Chicago for the week’s NBA Draft Combine.
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Monte McNair is GM of the Kings. And as of Tuesday Anjali Ranadive, daughter of Sacramento Kings owner Vivek Ranadive, is the new Assistant General Manager of the G League Stockton Kings, according to multiple sources. She is with the Kings in Chicago for the week’s NBA Draft Combine.
Not to see Justin however……
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Justin on Twitter:
"Hope for the best , prepare for the worst … However it come just know that I’m ready 🏁"
I think this is a real 50/50 decision.
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Doesn't sound like a dude with any sorta guarantee, aina?
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Doesn't sound like a dude with any sorta guarantee, aina?
Nor does he sound like he's returning.
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He gowne, hey?
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He gowne, hey?
Yes, him and his bad body language will be collecting a NBA check next year representing Marquette. Glad Wojo got him on campus and Shaka kept him for a year
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Yes, him and his bad body language will be collecting a NBA check next year representing Marquette. Glad Wojo got him on campus and Shaka kept him for a year
Shaka's big mistake.
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Yes, him and his bad body language will be collecting a NBA check next year representing Marquette. Glad Wojo got him on campus and Shaka kept him for a year
marquette will suck again, but at least we’re represented in the nba. Represent us, JL.
I’d rather Marquette is great. NBA? Meh. Play and win for my enjoyment. But, as I’ve admitted before, I’m a selfish sob.
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Marquette's not going to suck next year regardless if Justin is on the team or not.
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marquette will suck again, but at least we’re represented in the nba. Represent us, JL.
I’d rather Marquette is great. NBA? Meh. Play and win for my enjoyment. But, as I’ve admitted before, I’m a selfish sob.
Oh, I don’t disagree. Having JLew back would be a huge development. You’d have to be incredibly dumb to not want him back. I just think he’ll be in the NBA and that’s ok.
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Oh, I don’t disagree. Having JLew back would be a huge development. You’d have to be incredibly dumb to not want him back. I just think he’ll be in the NBA and that’s ok.
Why do we want a guy who looks lazy and disinterested, plus his hair is weird.
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Why do we want a guy who looks lazy and disinterested, plus his hair is weird.
I know you're joking, but to an outsider...
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I know you're joking, but to an outsider...
We don't like outsiders here.
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We don't like outsiders here.
Yes.....
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Why do we want a guy who looks lazy and disinterested, plus his hair is weird.
word, NewsD, word
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I know you're joking, but to an outsider...
This dead horse has been beaten so many times there might not be any outsiders left.
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This dead horse has been beaten so many times there might not be any outsiders left.
What dead horse?
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What dead horse?
The “Justin looks lazy/disinterested” horse. Challenging “Vanilla Soft Serve” and “Markus = Cancer” as dumbest, most overused “jokes” in Scoopdom.
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The “Justin looks lazy/disinterested” horse. Challenging “Vanilla Soft Serve” and “Markus = Cancer” as dumbest, most overused “jokes” in Scoopdom.
I mean, people said that
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I mean, people said that
One person said Markus was a cancer. Years later several people here (I guess they think they’re being clever?) won’t let it die. A similar thing is now happening with Justin. After a while it gets boring/annoying.
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One person said Markus was a cancer. Years later several people here (I guess they think they’re being clever?) won’t let it die. A similar thing is now happening with Justin. After a while it gets boring/annoying.
Crean sucks.
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Damn right he does, hey?
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Crean sucks.
Five years to judge.
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What dead horse?
Horses never die on Scoop
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Horses never die on Scoop
Not true. However, they can never be beaten enough after dying. Their souls live for that sh*t.
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Not true. However, they can never be beaten enough after dying. Their souls live for that sh*t.
Sorry, please don't ban me
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One person said Markus was a cancer. Years later several people here (I guess they think they’re being clever?) won’t let it die. A similar thing is now happening with Justin. After a while it gets boring/annoying.
Actually other people did and it evolved into he wasn't good for the team, etc., etc. But cool they didn't..... (Dodds tribute)
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Sorry, please don't ban me
You'll be banned on the appropriate schedule.
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i like jlew but not sure he's quite ready for prime time...with the exception for possible injury, i think he could use another year-don't we all? ;)
although, he's no jfb, he seems to model his "baltimore cool" after him. that's one of the few things that keeps me from saying jlew is too slow and seemingly "disinterested" to make it in the nba. there are a ton of 6'6''-6'7'' dudes, but way quicker with quicker release and more athletic. always hard to beat smart dumb like fox athletes. not sure where justin falls though. long live toscano eyn'a?
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You'll be banned on the appropriate schedule.
Haven't seen spiral and SoCal in years. Topper rarely posts.
Rocky is consolidating power like an old school Soviet.
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Raptors exhibiting some interest in Justin per this Sports Illustrated article:
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-justin-lewis-marquette-nba-draft-prospect
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Justin is back on campus.
The real countdown to his decision starts now.
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Bulls were on campus about a week ago interviewing staff about Justin.
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Hoping there is good news for Justin and he has lots of teams interested in drafting him .
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Hoping there is good news for Justin and he has lots of teams interested in drafting him .
Hopefully he shows interest.....
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Bulls were on campus about a week ago interviewing staff about Justin.
No 2nd round pick so perhaps doing their due diligence if he goes undrafted or perhaps they acquire a 2nd rounder.
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No 2nd round pick so perhaps doing their due diligence if he goes undrafted or perhaps they acquire a 2nd rounder.
Or they have a him with a first round grade.
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Or they have a him with a first round grade.
I suppose it's possible, but I don't know if he has jumped up to an 18th pick. That'd be shocking.
I guess they could be looking at him in case he potentially goes undrafted, but I really don't see him lasting 60 picks.
What's more likely is the Bulls pulling a draft night trade that lands them a late first round or 2nd round pick.
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Or they have a him with a first round grade.
Considered that option but didn’t find it particularly realistic. Obviously I could be wrong.
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https://instagram.com/stories/jusbuckets/2849760481959583277?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
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It's probably already been mentioned somewhere in here, but Justin and others in his position have until 11:59 p.m. Wednesday to withdraw his name from the pool of players eligible for the NBA Draft.
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Thanks. I wasn’t sure if it was Tuesday at midnight or Wednesday.
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It's probably already been mentioned somewhere in here, but Justin and others in his position have until 11:59 p.m. Wednesday to withdraw his name from the pool of players eligible for the NBA Draft.
Is that Eastern or time zone dependent? Just want to be accurate here.
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Is that Eastern or time zone dependent? Just want to be accurate here.
Quite certain it's eastern time, as I read it in The Athletic.
I'm guessing we won't find out about all the athletes who decided to stay in college or stay in the draft until Thursday morning, though maybe JL and/or Marquette will make some kind of announcement or social media post before then.
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The “Justin looks lazy/disinterested” horse. Challenging “Vanilla Soft Serve” and “Markus = Cancer” as dumbest, most overused “jokes” in Scoopdom.
I nominate every Hauser/letter reference to your list of dumb, overused, stopped being funny more than a year ago "jokes".
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I nominate every Hauser/letter reference to your list of dumb, overused, stopped being funny more than a year ago "jokes".
I’m with you and Lenny and would also include people who post intentionally in gibberish.
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Quite certain it's eastern time, as I read it in The Athletic.
I'm guessing we won't find out about all the athletes who decided to stay in college or stay in the draft until Thursday morning, though maybe JL and/or Marquette will make some kind of announcement or social media post before then.
Justin is back on campus in Milwaukee. At one point, he did say he would announce on June 1, so I'm guessing they'll set something up for tomorrow. I wasn't optimistic, but seeing all the announcements of guys coming back, including guys whose stock was clearly higher than Justin's (Terquavion Smith) I'm starting to wonder.
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Justin is back on campus in Milwaukee. At one point, he did say he would announce on June 1, so I'm guessing they'll set something up for tomorrow. I wasn't optimistic, but seeing all the announcements of guys coming back, including guys whose stock was clearly higher than Justin's (Terquavion Smith) I'm starting to wonder.
He is not on Campus.
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He is not on Campus.
He was yesterday, now it looks like he's out of town. Less encouraging, for sure.
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The consensus on where Justin gets drafted seems to differ from where he is ranked as a prospect. The talk around him is high as a player, but seems to be in the 45-58 range (2 forfeited picks). That tells me that people like his upside but think he'll be a project.
If the 45-58 range is accurate it wouldn't take all that much for him to go undrafted. A guy or 2 slips or a team that likes him picks someone else and he could slide. There are so many players in this draft and already starting to see projected late 1sts return to school.
Not sure what he will decide, but if he stays in the draft I hope it works out for him.
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He was yesterday, now it looks like he's out of town. Less encouraging, for sure.
He came back to see if his bag was ready. If it is not full enough, he gowne.
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He was yesterday, now it looks like he's out of town. Less encouraging, for sure.
Also, a player in the same range as Justin leaving the draft makes it more likely that Justin stays in the draft. He will be "one pick higher".
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Also, a player in the same range as Justin leaving the draft makes it more likely that Justin stays in the draft. He will be "one pick higher".
Neither of those are necessarily true.
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The teams that Justin has been linked to (Indiana, Orlando, and Toronto) all have picks early in the 2nd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 31-35.
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The teams that Justin has been linked to (Indiana, Orlando, and Toronto) all have picks early in the 2nd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 31-35.
That run does seem to be most likely based on context. I'm a little surprised he didn't work out for Sacramento, New Orleans, or Minnesota, all of whom have multiple picks in the 40-52 range. If he doesn't get picked by 35, it's a long wait until 58.
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He came back to see if his bag was ready. If it is not full enough, he gowne.
Here is my analysis. There are approximately 72 jobs available. 58 Draft picks and approximately 14 two way contracts ( per analysis provided by BrewCity77). I believe Justin is in the top 72 players in the draft. So Justin can get something better than a Section 10 /g league contract if he stays in the draft.
MU will need to come up with an equivalent to a two way contract , which was 462,500 last year, to essentially have a shot at recruiting Justin to stay. MU is essentially in Rod Tidwell/Jerry McGuire mode.
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Here is my analysis. There are approximately 88 jobs available. 58 Draft picks and approximately 30 two way contracts ( half of the available 60 as some will go to existing two way players). I believe Justin is in the top 88 players in the draft. So Justin can get something better than a Section 10 /g league contract if he stays in the draft.
MU will need to come up with an equivalent to a two way contract , which was 462,500 last year, to essentially have a shot at recruiting Justin to stay. MU is essentially in Rod Tidwell/Jerry McGuire mode.
Money being equal, I would assume he still goes. If he’s getting a two-way contract this year, I think his odds of sticking in the NBA are higher than taking his chances with a new draft class next year. He could work himself into a first round pick, but I’m not sure I would bet on that.
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Here is my analysis. There are approximately 88 jobs available. 58 Draft picks and approximately 30 two way contracts ( half of the available 60 as some will go to existing two way players). I believe Justin is in the top 88 players in the draft. So Justin can get something better than a Section 10 /g league contract if he stays in the draft.
MU will need to come up with an equivalent to a two way contract , which was 462,500 last year, to essentially have a shot at recruiting Justin to stay. MU is essentially in Rod Tidwell/Jerry McGuire mode.
Your two-way estimate is a massive, massive overestimate. You have to remember first that many of the two-way contracts will go to players that were, indeed, drafted. Last year set the record for the number of undrafted players given two-way contracts, and it was just 14.
Last year, there were 56 players on two-way contracts. This was the breakdown by draft-eligible year:
2016: 2 Undrafted / 0 Drafted (2)
2017: 3 Undrafted / 1 Drafted (4)
2018: 4 Undrafted / 2 Drafted (6)
2019: 5 Undrafted / 3 Drafted (8)
2020: 12 Undrafted / 4 Drafted (16)
2021: 14 Undrafted / 6 Drafted (20)
Initially, there were more drafted players on two-way deals. 10 players were given two-way deals on their draft position but 4 were later converted to full NBA contracts.
In terms of second round deals overall, here is the running tally of (at least partially) guaranteed deals given out in the past 6 drafts, including two-way deals:
2016: 21 Guaranteed / 0 Two-way
2017: 16 Guaranteed / 5 Two-way
2018: 20 Guaranteed / 4 Two-way
2019: 18 Guaranteed / 8 Two-way
2020: 16 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
2021: 15 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
If he's drafted, it's about an 80% chance he ends up with a two-way or better contract offer. However, here's the number of early entrants and international eligible players in those years:
2016: 162
2017: 182
2018: 236
2019: 233
2020: 205
2021: 192 (Not including college seniors that declared)
Without digging completely into the numbers (which would take more time than I have right now) that means there's a little less than a 10% chance of getting a two-way deal if you are an undrafted free agent. Maybe Justin ends up one of those 10-15 undrafted players that end up with one, but it certainly won't be 30 and it is a far riskier proposition if you aren't one of the guys who hears their name on Draft night.
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Your two-way estimate is a massive, massive overestimate. You have to remember first that many of the two-way contracts will go to players that were, indeed, drafted. Last year set the record for the number of undrafted players given two-way contracts, and it was just 14.
Last year, there were 56 players on two-way contracts. This was the breakdown by draft-eligible year:
2016: 2 Undrafted / 0 Drafted (2)
2017: 3 Undrafted / 1 Drafted (4)
2018: 4 Undrafted / 2 Drafted (6)
2019: 5 Undrafted / 3 Drafted (8)
2020: 12 Undrafted / 4 Drafted (16)
2021: 14 Undrafted / 6 Drafted (20)
Initially, there were more drafted players on two-way deals. 10 players were given two-way deals on their draft position but 4 were later converted to full NBA contracts.
In terms of second round deals overall, here is the running tally of (at least partially) guaranteed deals given out in the past 6 drafts, including two-way deals:
2016: 21 Guaranteed / 0 Two-way
2017: 16 Guaranteed / 5 Two-way
2018: 20 Guaranteed / 4 Two-way
2019: 18 Guaranteed / 8 Two-way
2020: 16 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
2021: 15 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
If he's drafted, it's about an 80% chance he ends up with a two-way or better contract offer. However, here's the number of early entrants and international eligible players in those years:
2016: 162
2017: 182
2018: 236
2019: 233
2020: 205
2021: 192 (Not including college seniors that declared)
Without digging completely into the numbers (which would take more time than I have right now) that means there's a little less than a 10% chance of getting a two-way deal if you are an undrafted free agent. Maybe Justin ends up one of those 10-15 undrafted players that end up with one, but it certainly won't be 30 and it is a far riskier proposition if you aren't one of the guys who hears their name on Draft night.
He ain't staying in the draft to get a 2 way contract. He could get that next year and the year after if he stayed at MU and all went south.
He's either getting a draft guarantee in a range he is comfortable with or he's coming back.
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He ain't staying in the draft to get a 2 way contract. He could get that next year and the year after if he stayed at MU and all went south.
He's either getting a draft guarantee in a range he is comfortable with or he's coming back.
I think a two way contract is worth leaving for most players unless you're getting Tshiebwe money. If Lewis is going to make it in the NBA it won't be because of development during a 3rd year at MU.
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He ain't staying in the draft to get a 2 way contract. He could get that next year and the year after if he stayed at MU and all went south.
He's either getting a draft guarantee in a range he is comfortable with or he's coming back.
He isn't staying in to get a 2-way, but that might be the best he can get after he decides to stay in. Maybe he has draft guarantees from Orlando, Indiana, and Sacramento. But what if Indiana and Sacramento want the same guy? Indiana trades their second round picks to move from 6th to 3rd, then Sacramento trades their second round picks to move from 4th to 2nd to get ahead of Indiana. A couple hours later, Orlando sees a guy they had with a lottery grade sliding into the 20s and they package their second round picks to get back into the first. Suddenly, all those second round "guarantees" are gone and Justin is just hoping someone still picks him or he can get a two-way if his name never gets called.
There will be about 20 available two-way deals for members of this draft class. Some will go to drafted players, and a handful will go to undrafted players. And when all is said and done, there will be a dozen or so content undrafted players with two-way deals in hand and 100+ undrafted players who don't get that guarantee and are left pondering Europe or the G League.
If Justin stays in, I hope he gets drafted as high as possible. If he doesn't, I hope he gets a two-way deal. That will still likely be north of $500,000 per year next season. But guarantees aren't worth all that much when there were 13 draft day trades last year and two-way assurances aren't very high when less than 10% of draft eligible underclassmen/internationals end up getting them.
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Your two-way estimate is a massive, massive overestimate. You have to remember first that many of the two-way contracts will go to players that were, indeed, drafted. Last year set the record for the number of undrafted players given two-way contracts, and it was just 14.
Last year, there were 56 players on two-way contracts. This was the breakdown by draft-eligible year:
2016: 2 Undrafted / 0 Drafted (2)
2017: 3 Undrafted / 1 Drafted (4)
2018: 4 Undrafted / 2 Drafted (6)
2019: 5 Undrafted / 3 Drafted (8)
2020: 12 Undrafted / 4 Drafted (16)
2021: 14 Undrafted / 6 Drafted (20)
Initially, there were more drafted players on two-way deals. 10 players were given two-way deals on their draft position but 4 were later converted to full NBA contracts.
In terms of second round deals overall, here is the running tally of (at least partially) guaranteed deals given out in the past 6 drafts, including two-way deals:
2016: 21 Guaranteed / 0 Two-way
2017: 16 Guaranteed / 5 Two-way
2018: 20 Guaranteed / 4 Two-way
2019: 18 Guaranteed / 8 Two-way
2020: 16 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
2021: 15 Guaranteed / 10 Two-way
If he's drafted, it's about an 80% chance he ends up with a two-way or better contract offer. However, here's the number of early entrants and international eligible players in those years:
2016: 162
2017: 182
2018: 236
2019: 233
2020: 205
2021: 192 (Not including college seniors that declared)
Without digging completely into the numbers (which would take more time than I have right now) that means there's a little less than a 10% chance of getting a two-way deal if you are an undrafted free agent. Maybe Justin ends up one of those 10-15 undrafted players that end up with one, but it certainly won't be 30 and it is a far riskier proposition if you aren't one of the guys who hears their name on Draft night.
I correct my Post to reflect the two way numbers you provided. Thanks for the detail.
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MU will need to come up with an equivalent to a two way contract , which was 462,500 last year, to essentially have a shot at recruiting Justin to stay. MU is essentially in Rod Tidwell/Jerry McGuire mode.
This all assumes that it's only about money. Not a single person here has any idea what Justin is thinking about right now.
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This all assumes that it's only about money. Not a single person here has any idea what Justin is thinking about right now.
Also, if Marquette and Justin only care about money, we need to make up the difference in reaching a second contract a year later including the probability of receiving a second contract. I expect a full CBA in this thread.
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The NC State player rated the 22nd best player (ESPN, I think) just announced he’s returning to school. We’ll soon find out if our pockets are as deep as theirs.
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I hope Justin continues his education at Marquette. He's not a great player, yet. He has a chance to go from a good player to a great player in two years.
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He's either getting a draft guarantee in a range he is comfortable with or he's coming back.
[/quote
I could have told you that in April.
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I assumed you missed the teal on this one?
This all assumes that it's only about money. Not a single person here has any idea what Justin is thinking about right now.
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I hope Justin continues his education at Marquette. He's not a great player, yet. He has a chance to go from a good player to a great player in two years.
He can continue his MU education whenever he wants that is the MU way.
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I hope Justin continues his education at Marquette. He's not a great player, yet. He has a chance to go from a good player to a great player in two years.
He was All Big East first team last season. That doesn't qualify as great?
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I assumed you missed the teal on this one?
Was it all about money when Terquavion Smith decided to stay in school?
The NC State player rated the 22nd best player (ESPN, I think) just announced he’s returning to school. We’ll soon find out if our pockets are as deep as theirs.
There is no way NC State found "sponsors" to come up with the $2M+ Smith would have gotten in 2022-23 as the #22 pick, not to mention the $10M+ he would have gotten over the lifetime of his first contract.
Here's what Smith said:
"I have to be honest and admit money has never been at the center of my thoughts. My agent explained to me that teams as high as the late teens, through the rest of the first round, all have me ranked as a first-round talent. It's exciting to hear that. But I told him I have more work to do. I like school and my college in particular. Remember, my last two years have been so strange, thanks to the pandemic. I just want one more season to get everything right and just be a college student."
Folks can choose to believe he's lying if they'd like.
Now, is the fact that Smith is probably gonna get some very nice NIL $$$ a factor in his decision to stay? Almost certainly, which to me accentuates the positives of the new NIL rules. But if it were all about the money for him, Smith would be saying farewell to NCSt.
Similar for Justin. We don't know what kind of NIL deals he might be able to get if he stays. We don't know where he'll be drafted and what NBA teams have told him. And we won't know what Lewis feels about all of it until he tells us.
Although, PointWarrior apparently is inside JL's head and knows exactly what the kid feels.
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Article on 20 key players that are making draft decisions. Justin was listed as one of them.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-draft-early-entry-deadline-trevor-keels-leonard-miller-justin-lewis-dalen-terry
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I hope Justin continues his education at Marquette. He's not a great player, yet. He has a chance to go from a good player to a great player in two years.
Or he could do that in the G League.
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Was there ever an explanation for Justin declaring he would return to MU in that Instagram video?
I’m wondering if he was being spotaneously honest but then heard from Shaka/coaches/advisors that it was in his best interest to stay mum on the subject to maintain leverage for the best possible NIL deal.
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Was there ever an explanation for Justin declaring he would return to MU in that Instagram video?
I’m wondering if he was being spotaneously honest but then heard from Shaka/coaches/advisors that it was in his best interest to stay mum on the subject to maintain leverage for the best possible NIL deal.
The explanation in the words of Justin "Don't always believe what you hear."
If he says he's going pro, I won't believe it.
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Was there ever an explanation for Justin declaring he would return to MU in that Instagram video?
I’m wondering if he was being spotaneously honest but then heard from Shaka/coaches/advisors that it was in his best interest to stay mum on the subject to maintain leverage for the best possible NIL deal.
I think sometimes college kids feel pressure to say what people want to hear when they are put on the spot
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I think sometimes college kids feel pressure to say what people want to hear when they are put on the spot
That’s fair, though the tone of his response seemed pretty definitive. Perhaps he was just leaning toward returning to school that day and made too confident an assertion. But I’m still thinking there’s a decent shot he announces his return tomorrow.
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Here is my analysis. There are approximately 72 jobs available. 58 Draft picks and approximately 14 two way contracts ( per analysis provided by BrewCity77). I believe Justin is in the top 72 players in the draft. So Justin can get something better than a Section 10 /g league contract if he stays in the draft.
MU will need to come up with an equivalent to a two way contract , which was 462,500 last year, to essentially have a shot at recruiting Justin to stay. MU is essentially in Rod Tidwell/Jerry McGuire mode.
HC-don't you think he could get at least $460k NIL staying at MU plus continue with a free education, room and board, etc? all the while improving his play and hopefully move up in the draft
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HC-don't you think he could get at least $460k NIL staying at MU plus continue with a free education, room and board, etc? all the while improving his play and hopefully move up in the draft
The "am I in or am I out" doesn't help college players in terms of NIL, IMO. Maybe at some factories like UNC or Kentucky or Bama or Miami, but not at Marquette long term. If I am a Milwaukee area business am I going to offer six figures for six months to a MU student athlete? I'd prefer to pay that to a pro player in town, even a marginal one, who will have the potential for a multi-year payout.
Maybe for an undergrad Wade or Howard, not for many others.
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Will we necessarily hear anything if he stays in the draft? He’s in unless he’s out right?
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Will we necessarily hear anything if he stays in the draft? He’s in unless he’s out right?
Customary to clear the air, a la “announcing” you’re staying when there’s speculation of portaling.
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Customary to clear the air, a la “announcing” you’re staying when there’s speculation of portaling.
There is no speculation of portaling
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Will we necessarily hear anything if he stays in the draft? He’s in unless he’s out right?
If he doesn't, and doesn't announce, I'm sure we'll know by Thursday morning. Rothstein or Goodman will call the league office to confirm who's in and out.
Edit: Oh, who am I kidding...Rothstein will call them at midnight and post it at 12:01 am.
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Is Justin worth 500 grand to Marquette? I guess that's up to the people throwing in the money. I for one hopes someone coughs up the cash and he stays. If he gets drafted in the first 2 rounds he's got to go. If he doesn't and he plays in the G-League or plays overseas what will the compensation be and what will he sacrifice by not staying at MU for another year? Getting drafted next year in the 1st round should be a goal for him. And it's within reach. He has to ask himself if he believes Smart and his staff can develop him enough to delay or postpone his move into professional bb. Can another year turn him into Kawhi Leonard. He will be encouraged to score 35 points per game next year. And he will deliver that. If he waits he could come out like Dwade and get drafted in the first round and he's not treated like a project. He will be a rising star. Got to do what's right for you and your family. I get it. Every one I talk to thinks he's leaving but I don't. I think otherwise. It's what I want to believe. Just saying. Drip drip drip.
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I'll be stunned if he returns.
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Is Justin worth 500 grand to Marquette? I guess that's up to the people throwing in the money. I for one hopes someone coughs up the cash and he stays. If he gets drafted in the first 2 rounds he's got to go. If he doesn't and he plays in the G-League or plays overseas what will the compensation be and what will he sacrifice by not staying at MU for another year? Getting drafted next year in the 1st round should be a goal for him. And it's within reach. He has to ask himself if he believes Smart and his staff can develop him enough to delay or postpone his move into professional bb. Can another year turn him into Kawhi Leonard. He will be encouraged to score 35 points per game next year. And he will deliver that. If he waits he could come out like Dwade and get drafted in the first round and he's not treated like a project. He will be a rising star. Got to do what's right for you and your family. I get it. Every one I talk to thinks he's leaving but I don't. I think otherwise. It's what I want to believe. Just saying. Drip drip drip.
let’s say you are a business owner in Milwaukee with some cash to burn. You paying a college player to ball for which he is already getting a $200k education? (asking for a Badger fan)
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If he gets drafted in the first 2 rounds he's got to go.
There are only 2 rounds.
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Is Justin worth 500 grand to Marquette? I guess that's up to the people throwing in the money. I for one hopes someone coughs up the cash and he stays. If he gets drafted in the first 2 rounds he's got to go. If he doesn't and he plays in the G-League or plays overseas what will the compensation be and what will he sacrifice by not staying at MU for another year? Getting drafted next year in the 1st round should be a goal for him. And it's within reach. He has to ask himself if he believes Smart and his staff can develop him enough to delay or postpone his move into professional bb. Can another year turn him into Kawhi Leonard. He will be encouraged to score 35 points per game next year. And he will deliver that. If he waits he could come out like Dwade and get drafted in the first round and he's not treated like a project. He will be a rising star. Got to do what's right for you and your family. I get it. Every one I talk to thinks he's leaving but I don't. I think otherwise. It's what I want to believe. Just saying. Drip drip drip.
Should this whole post be teal?
He has to decide by tomorrow. He can't see where he gets picked and then decide.
35 points per game next year? No one has done that since the early 1990s. Assuming 33 games played, he would post the highest single season scoring total since Maravich.
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There is no speculation of portaling
True. Merely providing another example of a speculative move paving the way for an announcement one way or another.
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He has to decide by tomorrow. He can't see where he gets picked and then decide.
Which is quite dumb in my opinion. The ncaa allows baseball and hockey players to not only enter the draft, but get selected and then are still able to come back.
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Which is quite dumb in my opinion. The ncaa allows baseball and hockey players to not only enter the draft, but get selected and then are still able to come back.
Agreed. I think the rule should be that players have to decide by August 1 if they retain eligibility. This date is also after the NBA summer league. That way the drafting team can work with player, their agent and their college coach to determine if they want them to stay in school for the next year or not.
I get that the coaches want more certainty over who is on their roster, but then I would allow a coach to "oversign" one additional player if they have an underclassman in the draft. So in this case, Marquette could take in a transfer like Ramey, but still have a place for Justin should he wish to return.
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Agreed. I think the rule should be that players have to decide by August 1 if they retain eligibility. This date is also after the NBA summer league. That way the drafting team can work with player, their agent and their college coach to determine if they want them to stay in school for the next year or not.
I get that the coaches want more certainty over who is on their roster, but then I would allow a coach to "oversign" one additional player if they have an underclassman in the draft. So in this case, Marquette could take in a transfer like Ramey, but still have a place for Justin should he wish to return.
How about if a team has 3 underclassmen in the draft? 8? I am sure some coach will try to push the limit.
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Agreed. I think the rule should be that players have to decide by August 1 if they retain eligibility. This date is also after the NBA summer league. That way the drafting team can work with player, their agent and their college coach to determine if they want them to stay in school for the next year or not.
I get that the coaches want more certainty over who is on their roster, but then I would allow a coach to "oversign" one additional player if they have an underclassman in the draft. So in this case, Marquette could take in a transfer like Ramey, but still have a place for Justin should he wish to return.
Agree with all of this until the oversigning part. That would be abused.
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Let’s hope the duck nachos are really THAT good.
I have no idea what he’ll do, but it’ll be nice to know (when will that really be?…)
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How about if a team has 3 underclassmen in the draft? 8? I am sure some coach will try to push the limit.
Which is why I said "one additional player." I should have added "...regardless of the number of student athletes in the draft."
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Agreed. I think the rule should be that players have to decide by August 1 if they retain eligibility. This date is also after the NBA summer league. That way the drafting team can work with player, their agent and their college coach to determine if they want them to stay in school for the next year or not.
I get that the coaches want more certainty over who is on their roster, but then I would allow a coach to "oversign" one additional player if they have an underclassman in the draft. So in this case, Marquette could take in a transfer like Ramey, but still have a place for Justin should he wish to return.
The MLB was like 40 rounds. NBA should keep it as is.
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Per John Rothstein, Justin has announced he’s staying in the draft. He gone
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John Fanta has also tweeted.
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Shockin', hey?
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Maybe this is the year that Todd Smith finds his way to the gym and our players actually physically progress. That would at least move the needle a bit in filling this gap.
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Per John Rothstein, Justin has announced he’s staying in the draft. He gone
_______ tells me they are staying in the draft.
(no player or half decent agent is ever texting Rothstein).
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Now that this is over, did this really need its own thread? We have have a recruiting thread already.
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Per John Rothstein, Justin has announced he’s staying in the draft. He gone
Copied from Rothsteins Twitter
"Maruqette's Justin Lewis tells me that he's staying in the 2022 NBA Draft.
Significant Big East News."
Think that is a different Justin Lewis. Maruqettes?
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Best of luck to Justin! I hope he lands in a good situation.
Let's see how much guys can improve this offseason.
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Maybe this is the year that Todd Smith finds his way to the gym and our players actually physically progress. That would at least move the needle a bit in filling this gap.
I mean, you didn't see Lewis or Osa "physically progress" last year?
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This is a massive blow to next season. As bullish as I was going into last year with the amount of proven talent we had coming in, I feel the total opposite after the Lewis news.
We’ll need significant steps from Omax, Joplin and Jones to be competitive. It’s certainly not out of the question, but there’s much more unknown going into this season than last IMO. Let’s see if Shaka can grab an experienced replacement still available in the portal.
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We’ll need significant steps from Omax, Joplin and Jones to be competitive. It’s certainly not out of the question, but there’s much more unknown going into this season than last IMO.
That's a little ridiculous.
Last year we had only three players who ever put on a Marquette uniform. We lost our top five scorers and 82% of our minutes from the year prior.
This year, we have eight returnees, seven of whom played in games. We are returning two of our top five scorers and returning 52% of our minutes from last year.
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This is a massive blow to next season. As bullish as I was going into last year with the amount of proven talent we had coming in, I feel the total opposite after the Lewis news.
We’ll need significant steps from Omax, Joplin and Jones to be competitive. It’s certainly not out of the question, but there’s much more unknown going into this season than last IMO. Let’s see if Shaka can grab an experienced replacement still available in the portal.
It isn't. This has been well known for some time. The plans have already been designed.
I disagree with your "proven talent" though from last season. Outside of Morsell, there was very little proven talent at the level of being a significant contributor on a Big East team.
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This is a massive blow to next season. As bullish as I was going into last year with the amount of proven talent we had coming in, I feel the total opposite after the Lewis news.
We’ll need significant steps from Omax, Joplin and Jones to be competitive. It’s certainly not out of the question, but there’s much more unknown going into this season than last IMO. Let’s see if Shaka can grab an experienced replacement still available in the portal.
I still expect Marquette to be better. That's what good coaching does. This should be exciting for us. We have an NBA player in Justin with another possible next year in OMax. This is good for the program.
More depth at PG this year than last. Kolek/Jones/Ellis all capable of handling the ball.
More depth in the front court as well with OMax/Wrightsil/Oso/Itejere/Gold/Joplin.
The question mark is the Combo guard spot. Right now it is Kam, Stevie, and Chase Ross.
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Best of luck to Justin, but I still think we're better than last year. We knew what this roster was going to be in November of last year. The only changes are Justin out and Wrightsil in. This time of year, everyone focuses on transfers rather than continuity. We have continuity that other programs simply do not have. With a year in the system, the returning players will be better and more comfortable.
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Bummer for the team but a surprise to nobody. Hopefully he kills it in the NBA.
Thought last year's team would be a bubble team because of Morsell's defense on the perimeter and Kur's defense at the rim. Had a better year than I expected overall, so I'm hoping for the same because I just don't know how this roster will be anywhere above 7th or so in the Big East at best. OMax showed promise, but people cite Lewis's jump as a reason for OMax optimism. Lewis and OMax both were in their second year of college basketball last season. Kolek was a pleasant surprise, but was less effective later in the year when teams figured out his game (and the team floundered at the same time).
I see a lot of roll players on this team and not a lot of studs. Unless 3 incoming freshman who are ranked where you'd expect not a lot of productivity from right away plus a D2 transfer surprise quite a bit, I don't see how this team could be better than last year's, but maybe Shaka really has it and I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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That's a little ridiculous.
Last year we had only three players who ever put on a Marquette uniform. We lost our top five scorers and 82% of our minutes from the year prior.
This year, we have eight returnees, seven of whom played in games. We are returning two of our top five scorers and returning 52% of our minutes from last year.
A core of Morsell, Kolek, Lewis and Kuath led me to believe we would far surpass the majority of expectations laid out by posters here - We did.
This coming season there are far more question marks. A lot of guys who played second, third fiddle with talent that are all very capable of taking big strides, but the jury is still out how they will handle increased work loads.
I hope to be wrong, but I’m more pessimistic this season than going into last. Without knowing who comes in to replace lewis’ roster spot, I’d guess our ceiling for next year is 17-19 wins.
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Fix the defensive issues from the end of the season and they'll be fine. The scoring will come.
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Fix the defensive issues from the end of the season and they'll be fine. The scoring will come.
Agree with this - we saw significant buy in on the defensive end last year. Hopefully
Mitchell can continue his intensity on the perimeter with increased minutes.
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Agree with this - we saw significant buy in on the defensive end last year. Hopefully
Mitchell can continue his intensity on the perimeter with increased minutes.
I think the guards will be fine defensively. Mitchell is an excellent defender and I think we'll come to learn that Ross is as good or better in that regard.
What is really going to help the defense is the amount of capable bodies up front this year.
OMax/Joplin/Wrightsil/Oso/Itejere/Gold
That's a lot of size up front that doesn't have to worry about foul trouble. Just play hard defense, rebound, and next man up if there is foul trouble.
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Congrats and good luck Mr. Lewis. Will nice to have another Marquette grad in the Association.
Add me to the group that's still optimistic about next season. If Lewis had returned, I'd be thinking a top 15 team, now I'm thinking we will be slightly better than last season, somewhere in the 6-8 seed range, hopefully without getting falcon punched in the first round.
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I think the guards will be fine defensively. Mitchell is an excellent defender and I think we'll come to learn that Ross is as good or better in that regard.
What is really going to help the defense is the amount of capable bodies up front this year.
OMax/Joplin/Wrightsil/Oso/Itejere/Gold
That's a lot of size up front that doesn't have to worry about foul trouble. Just play hard defense, rebound, and next man up if there is foul trouble.
I see the potential - Need some significant developmental steps to compete next year.
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I see the potential - Need some significant developmental steps to compete next year.
Hate to see him go, as mentioned before, a massive blow to next years team but I think he made the right choice. While he has the size, his game is not NBA level yet but if he has plateaued, like Dom James, his stock might never be higher.
Thank you Justin and good luck. I'll be rooting for him.
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I assume Kam and OMax take a jump next year but I feel like a lot rides on if Wrightsil is legit or not or if Joplin takes a big jump.
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Good luck to Justin. Always seemed his heart was leaning towards the NBA. I think he’ll represent MU well and have a solid career.
MU will be fine next year. Justin’s departure opens the door for other players to step into more of a leadership role. We have a lot of candidates for guys to show significant improvement and I think they will deliver in a big way. I think Joplin makes the biggest jump next year.
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This is fantastic news for Justin and MU. The more talent MU sends to The Association the better .
I am bullish on the prospects for this years team . Everyone poised for solid growth .
Will be interesting to see what the coaching staff does with the empty spot.
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I assume Kam and OMax take a jump next year but I feel like a lot rides on if Wrightsil is legit or not or if Joplin takes a big jump.
X Factors are gonna be Gold and EE. I personally think EE takes a big step next year and could have significant PG minutes by end of year.
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I assume Kam and OMax take a jump next year but I feel like a lot rides on if Wrightsil is legit or not or if Joplin takes a big jump.
Outside of OMax, Joplin is the guy I'm most confident in taking a jump. Even moreso than Kam.
Kam was pretty good already and outside of volume I don't think we'll see much different from Kam.
Joplin on the other hand has the size and skills to be a star. Just has to get comfortable which will take time.
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Best of luck J Lew! Hopefully you stay in MKE
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This is fantastic news for Justin and MU. The more talent MU sends to The Association the better
I am bullish on the prospects for this years team . Everyone poised for solid growth .
Will be interesting to see what the coaching staff does with the empty spot.
This is the most eye-roll inducing statement.
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This is the most eye-roll inducing statement.
Its really not.
Woulda been great to have Justin again. But its also great to get kids to the NBA.
Shaka has been here 1 year and hes had one guy such a huge jump he became a clear cut NBA prospect and he kept every other kid(outside of Greg who I dont count for this) out of the transfer portal.
Continuity and getting guys to the league is how a program like MU builds.
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Its really not.
Woulda been great to have Justin again. But its also great to get kids to the NBA.
Shaka has been here 1 year and hes had one guy such a huge jump he became a clear cut NBA prospect and he kept every other kid(outside of Greg who I dont count for this) out of the transfer portal.
Continuity and getting guys to the league is how a program like MU builds.
Well, he's not drafted yet. Once hes drafted and plays in the NBA, that might be good news long term for MU, IMO
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The MLB was like 40 rounds. NBA should keep it as is.
Mike Piazza was drafted in the 62nd round of the 1988 draft (the 1,390th pick).
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A core of Morsell, Kolek, Lewis and Kuath led me to believe we would far surpass the majority of expectations laid out by posters here - We did.
This coming season there are far more question marks. A lot of guys who played second, third fiddle with talent that are all very capable of taking big strides, but the jury is still out how they will handle increased work loads.
I hope to be wrong, but I’m more pessimistic this season than going into last. Without knowing who comes in to replace lewis’ roster spot, I’d guess our ceiling for next year is 17-19 wins.
Going into last season, all we knew about Morsell, Kolek and Kuath was that they had "played second, third fiddle" in their previous programs. Morsell was a non-scorer. Kuath wasn't even that. Kolek was an A-10 kid who was being tasked with playing a new position at a higher-level school. O-Max wasn't even third fiddle at Clemson. Even Lewis ... he didn't average double-figures as an MU frosh. And who knew what kind of college players Kam and Stevie would be? Last year's team was filled with question marks.
Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of question marks going into next season now, too. Many of those are based on how much better guys like O-Max, Mitchell, Kolek, Kam, Joplin and Oso can be, as well as the newcomers.
I'll hold off on my expectations until I see who replaces Lewis on the roster, but I'd be pretty disappointed with a step backward.
Meanwhile ...
I wish nothing but great fortune to Justin Lewis. He worked hard, played well and was the main reason last year's team surpassed most observers' expectations. I hope he gets drafted and has a great pro career.
While him leaving will not be great for MU this season, it was expected by most (including Shaka no doubt), and overall it's good for a program to show it can be a launching pad to NBA careers.
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I see a lot of roll players on this team and not a lot of studs.
Indeed. Only 4 of 19 SOTGs returning.
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I figured he was gone. He was a very good player for us and I wish him the best. Hopefully someone will step up and grab the occasional rebound. I think we better be using track shoes.
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He was All Big East first team last season. That doesn't qualify as great?
a good college player. A great college player would be a Johnny Davis, imo.
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Its really not.
Woulda been great to have Justin again. But its also great to get kids to the NBA.
Shaka has been here 1 year and hes had one guy such a huge jump he became a clear cut NBA prospect and he kept every other kid(outside of Greg who I dont count for this) out of the transfer portal.
Continuity and getting guys to the league is how a program like MU builds.
It's great news for MU that MU lost a potential All-American
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Going into last season, all we knew about Morsell, Kolek and Kuath was that they had "played second, third fiddle" in their previous programs. Morsell was a non-scorer. Kuath wasn't even that. Kolek was an A-10 kid who was being tasked with playing a new position at a higher-level school. O-Max wasn't even third fiddle at Clemson. Even Lewis ... he didn't average double-figures as an MU frosh. And who knew what kind of college players Kam and Stevie would be? Last year's team was filled with question marks.
Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of question marks going into next season now, too. Many of those are based on how much better guys like O-Max, Mitchell, Kolek, Kam, Joplin and Oso can be, as well as the newcomers.
I'll hold off on my expectations until I see who replaces Lewis on the roster, but I'd be pretty disappointed with a step backward.
Meanwhile ...
I wish nothing but great fortune to Justin Lewis. He worked hard, played well and was the main reason last year's team surpassed most observers' expectations. I hope he gets drafted and has a great pro career.
While him leaving will not be great for MU this season, it was expected by most (including Shaka no doubt), and overall it's good for a program to show it can be a launching pad to NBA careers.
I watched each of them play numerous times for their previous programs (Kuath and Morsell many more times than Kolek). I was very confident with them coming into the program with their experience/skill set and making immediate impacts. I don't have that feeling yet with any of the guys returning this season.
Morsell always had scoring skills. Maryland chose not to utilize them hence why he transferred.
Kuath was stuck behind Manek and didn't get as much run as his talent merits.
Kolek was A10 freshman player of the year.
All three proved themselves on the college level as more than capable players but not great fits within their respective programs. A change of scenery did all three of them wonders. I was very confident with my predictions last season and most of my predictions were quite accurate.
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Welp.
Best of luck to Justin. Easily one of my favorites to don the blue and gold since the Buzz era ended.
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We need an impact transfer big. Huge loss.
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Congrats and good luck Mr. Lewis. Will nice to have another Marquette grad in the Association.
Add me to the group that's still optimistic about next season. If Lewis had returned, I'd be thinking a top 15 team, now I'm thinking we will be slightly better than last season, somewhere in the 6-8 seed range, hopefully without getting falcon punched in the first round.
Did JLew graduate?
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We need an impact transfer big. Huge loss.
Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
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Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
How many times have we looked over at UW and said "this is the year they drop off," but they end up developing the players on their roster, and bring in a group of seemingly lowly rated prospects who have a greater impact than we think they will.
Sure, Justin is better than anyone coming in. No doubt about that. But I think you will see strong development from more than one player next year - and that will make up for the loss.
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Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
If your prediction for this upcoming season is as accurate as your prediction for last season we should be in really good shape.
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a good college player. A great college player would be a Johnny Davis, imo.
The standard for "great" in college basketball is consensus first team All-American? I personally think that deserves an adjective above great.
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I watched each of them play numerous times for their previous programs (Kuath and Morsell many more times than Kolek). I was very confident with them coming into the program with their experience/skill set and making immediate impacts. I don't have that feeling yet with any of the guys returning this season.
Morsell always had scoring skills. Maryland chose not to utilize them hence why he transferred.
Kuath was stuck behind Manek and didn't get as much run as his talent merits.
Kolek was A10 freshman player of the year.
All three proved themselves on the college level as more than capable players but not great fits within their respective programs. A change of scenery did all three of them wonders. I was very confident with my predictions last season and most of my predictions were quite accurate.
Cool. For most they were relative unknowns.
Kuath, overall, was a disappointment. Had numerous games where he couldn't even accidentally grab a rebound, seemed to have endurance issues, missed a bunch of dunks. I'd have rather had Manek, that's for sure.
Kolek was fine. Couldn't shoot most of the season and struggled with the ball once opponents took away the pick-and-roll game, but he has nice court awareness and is a willing playmaker. We need him (or another PG) to be better if we're to have a good season.
So Morsell stayed around Maryland for 4 years even though he felt they misused him? You knew he was gonna have a bunch of 20-point games early, then struggle to even hit double-digits for a couple months, then come on again, sprinkled in with having to be benched a few times by Shaka? You really ARE a great predictor!
We had a ton of question marks last season, which is why Big East coaches picked us to finish 9th. I'm glad we did better than that, and I hope we can answer next season's question marks at least as well.
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Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
Nobody thinks they are better without him.
They can definitely be better this year without him than they were last year with him, but not because he's gone. Because of development.
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Cool. For most they were relative unknowns.
I knew them and saw they would be difference makers last year based on their skill sets and experience.
Kuath a disappointment - Tell me you don’t understand basketball without saying you don’t understand basketball. Yes, not a great rebounder, but his rim presence allowed guys to high pressure on the perimeter knowing if there was a blow by
KK was there to change shots at the rim. That was his role and he greatly excelled at it.
Morsell was dominant defensively and our second best scorer offensively. He was never the primary option at Maryland because he played with several nba guys and then nursed an injury his last season with the Terps.
Cmon you’re just intentionally underselling the contributions of these guys to try and make your point. All three were proven entities at their previous schools and were physically and mentally prepared for larger roles at MU. I can’t say that about any of the guys coming back from last season going into this season. That’s not to say Omax/Jop/Kam won’t take huge leaps, but I won’t confidently say that will be the case as I did last year with our newcomers.
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The standard for "great" in college basketball is consensus first team All-American? I personally think that deserves an adjective above great.
DWade, great. Markus Howard, great. Consensus AA’s. But, 1st team Big East is ‘great’? Is every 1st team ‘whatever conference’ great? Good, sure. I’ll stick with consensus AA is great. Not a concensus AA, not great. Subjective. Good debate.
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DWade, great. Markus Howard, great. Consensus AA’s. But, 1st team Big East is ‘great’? Is every 1st team ‘whatever conference’ great? Good, sure. I’ll stick with consensus AA is great. Not a concensus AA, not great. Subjective. Good debate.
Personally I think great college player is an insult to Wade but if that's your definition then I guess we agree
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Personally I think great college player is an insult to Wade but if that's your definition then I guess we agree
Elite, hey...
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We need an impact transfer big. Huge loss.
Agree. Huge but not unexpected loss.
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Well your COLE strength appears stronger this year than last year, must have been year to year improvement for you in the off season.
Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
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Personally, I enjoyed the past season. All we had was Justin Lewis and we didn’t know how anyone else would fit in, let alone score. Yes, there were some returning guards that had potential, but none of them (If you allow me to use a musical analogy) was better than a 5th chair coronet player in a high school anywhere in Wisconsin. Expect for Stevens Point, maybe. Morsell was obviously a player with experience and could tab ten a game reliably. And he could steady the team. The other transfers: Kuath and Koleg tried as hard as they could to compete against better opponents. As we saw in the tournament there are sixteen very good teams and eight teams who are exceptional. The two teams at the end are athletic, well coached, and determined. Build the team to resemble Baylor. Get two big guards who can defend chest to chest and shoot. Good shooters are always good. Am I right? Get some rebounders. MU competed very well early and had everyone thinking, what if? MU has a decent nucleus of returning players and some new guys joining the program. The new tall guys will determine how well the team will compete. I’m talking about the guys in the paint. Goodbye Justin! Thanks for the memories. The guys who are here will play with grit and fight for forty minutes. Oso & Prosper will score because they have grown. The guards will not be intimidated by opposing defenses and cut through the gaps. Pass the ball. Pass the ball. The future looks bright. And it always will. Cheers.
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Nobody thinks they are better without him.
They can definitely be better this year without him than they were last year with him, but not because he's gone. Because of development.
That’s the trick, right? Lose good players every year but somehow make the dance. Really good coaches do this and we hope that we have one. We’ll find out next year. If we’re not good the wrong foundation is being laid. Get er done Shaka!!!
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Good luck, Justin. Players leave. Others step up. The circle of life.
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Good luck, Justin. Players leave. Others step up. The circle of life.
Not for Muggsy. Players leave……OMG!! How could this happen?? We need the greatest basketball player available this and every year if we are to compete!
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None of us came here to give up. To the contrary, I'm like Chris Otule who might have said, "I've always got one eye open." BB is about hard work and resilience. We saw Jimmy play every minute of game seven in this year's Eastern Finals. At MU he could have scored 35 every night but Buzz reined him in to develop the team. Jimmy made the best of it and everyone seemed satisfied. Wade and Butler and Crowder and Matthews will never fade in our minds. Neither will Maurice Lucas. If I watch Justin Lewis have a great deal off success in the NBA and I watch him on tv I will have goose bumps. And dance around my living room. We're not closing the curtains. We're getting ready for what's next. Bring on the next act.
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35 points……EVERY. NIGHT.
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That’s the trick, right? Lose good players every year but somehow make the dance. Really good coaches do this and we hope that we have one. We’ll find out next year. If we’re not good the wrong foundation is being laid. Get er done Shaka!!!
If there is a step back this season I don’t necessarily agree that means the wrong foundation is being set.
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If there is a step back this season I don’t necessarily agree that means the wrong foundation is being set.
A better indicator for this year would be to look at the improvements (or lack thereof) for the foundational players. If the guys that are going to be around for the long haul are getting better resulting in some unexpected wins as the season progresses, that is still a good foundation.
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If there is a step back this season I don’t necessarily agree that means the wrong foundation is being set.
Agreed. If I see Jimmy Mac, Miller, and Key talent out there this year but it’s young and improving I’ll be willing to wait a year for an NCAA bid and another for a sweet sixteen. But the wrong foundation will be laid if the talent is not apparent.
Have to trust that Shaka sees exceptional college talent in these kids that he brought in and not over recruited. I want the optimists here to be right.
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Copied from Rothsteins Twitter
"Maruqette's Justin Lewis tells me that he's staying in the 2022 NBA Draft.
Significant Big East News."
_______ tells me they are staying in the draft.
(no player or half decent agent is ever texting Rothstein).
So it was your contention that Rothstein lied about Lewis telling him, even though Lewis could easily out him as a liar? Nice.
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So it was your contention that Rothstein lied about Lewis telling him, even though Lewis could easily out him as a liar? Nice.
MU82 tells me that he actually believes Rothstein gets told things.
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MU82 tells me that he actually believes Rothstein gets told things.
I do not believe Rothstein brazenly lied to a national audience.
Please offer proof that he did. Thanks.
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I think Rothstein has a pretty big network and gets told things. I also think he’s obnoxious.
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Not for Muggsy. Players leave……OMG!! How could this happen?? We need the greatest basketball player available this and every year if we are to compete!
Funny, I don't recall writing that at all.
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I think Rothstein has a pretty big network and gets told things. I also think he’s obnoxious.
Rothstein’s sources happen to be any coach he has a saying for
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Rothstein’s sources happen to be any coach he has a saying for
a saying? I don't get it, Unk.
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a saying? I don't get it, Unk.
His Twitter sayings after a team wins like, “Greg Gard. Silent Assassin”
Guys that feed him info get the love
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His Twitter sayings after a team wins like, “Greg Gard. Silent Assassin”
Guys that feed him info get the love
Ah. Thanks.
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His Twitter sayings after a team wins like, “Greg Gard. Silent Assassin”
Guys that feed him info get the love
Or "Shaka Smart, Reincarnation."
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1483997586142990339?s=21&t=FjKaCxUrCdtkiU2TkZtKZA
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Or "Shaka Smart, Reincarnation."
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1483997586142990339?s=21&t=FjKaCxUrCdtkiU2TkZtKZA
Shaka is an informer
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Yep. The talk that this team without Justin is better than last is absolute fantasyland. Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
Well, the year before we lost all 5 starters - one to the pros, one to UNC and one to Duke. The other 2 (and one reserve) transferred down a level and were all conference.
And the guy who was our stud last year hadn’t been good enough to start on that awful team. Things looked bad enough that one of our more knowledgeable posters thought we’d struggle to score 50 ppg. But we were pretty good - much better than the previous year’s team that Justin Lewis couldn’t start for. Amazing what a good coach can do. We’ll miss Lewis (and to a lesser extent, Morsell and Kuath). But more than we were supposed to miss Carton, Garcia, Theo, Cain and Koby? We have a coach. That makes a difference. I think we’ll be OK.
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Well, the year before we lost all 5 starters - one to the pros, one to UNC and one to Duke. The other 2 (and one reserve) transferred down a level and were all conference.
And the guy who was our stud last year hadn’t been good enough to start on that awful team. Things looked bad enough that one of our more knowledgeable posters thought we’d struggle to score 50 ppg. But we were pretty good - much better than the previous year’s team that Justin Lewis couldn’t start for. Amazing what a good coach can do. We’ll miss Lewis (and to a lesser extent, Morsell and Kuath). But more than we were supposed to miss Carton, Garcia, Theo, Cain and Koby? We have a coach. That makes a difference. I think we’ll be OK.
Yep yep.
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Well, the year before we lost all 5 starters - one to the pros, one to UNC and one to Duke. The other 2 (and one reserve) transferred down a level and were all conference.
And the guy who was our stud last year hadn’t been good enough to start on that awful team. Things looked bad enough that one of our more knowledgeable posters thought we’d struggle to score 50 ppg. But we were pretty good - much better than the previous year’s team that Justin Lewis couldn’t start for. Amazing what a good coach can do. We’ll miss Lewis (and to a lesser extent, Morsell and Kuath). But more than we were supposed to miss Carton, Garcia, Theo, Cain and Koby? We have a coach. That makes a difference. I think we’ll be OK.
For sure!
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Lose by far our best two players and 3 of top 4 scorers, and bring in no top 100 recruits and no impact transfers. Woof. Long term upside is there, but I don't see next season being a tournament team.
I cannot stress this enough, but losing scorers is pretty much meaningless. I know it seems logical, but it's truly not important.
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Teams always lose leading scorers. Shaka is banking on development. Lots of building blocks.
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Well, the year before we lost all 5 starters - one to the pros, one to UNC and one to Duke. The other 2 (and one reserve) transferred down a level and were all conference.
And the guy who was our stud last year hadn’t been good enough to start on that awful team Things looked bad enough that one of our more knowledgeable posters thought we’d struggle to score 50 ppg. But we were pretty good - much better than the previous year’s team that Justin Lewis couldn’t start for. Amazing what a good coach can do. We’ll miss Lewis (and to a lesser extent, Morsell and Kuath). But more than we were supposed to miss Carton, Garcia, Theo, Cain and Koby? We have a coach. That makes a difference. I think we’ll be OK.
People keep forgetting how good JFL was as a Frosh, he was limited because of his ankle injury, If not for that he would have started earlier.
2020-21 Season Notes (Fr.): Scored 10 points in collegiate debut vs. UAPB (Nov. 25) … Followed that effort up with 10 points and eight rebounds against Eastern Illinois (Nov. 27) … Grabbed 13 rebounds vs. Ok. State (12/1) … Finished with 18 points against No. 4 Wisconsin (Dec. 4), including game-winning tip-in at the buzzer on missed free throw … Named BIG EAST Freshman of the Week (Dec. 7) … Chipped in 11 points and nine rebounds in win at nationally ranked Creighton (Dec. 14) … Scored 8-of-10 points in second half at Georgetown (Jan. 2) and added seven rebounds … Chipped in 11 points, six rebounds and three blocked shots in 22 minutes against Providence (Jan. 12) … Shot 4-of-6 from the floor and finished with 13 points and seven rebounds at St. John’s (Jan. 16) … Chipped in 12 points and eight rebounds in 35 minutes of action at Providence (Jan. 27) … returned to the court at UConn (Feb. 27) after missing majority of previous seven games with ankle injury … Scored 14 points off the bench against the Huskies … made first start of season at DePaul (March 2).
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Well, the year before we lost all 5 starters - one to the pros, one to UNC and one to Duke. The other 2 (and one reserve) transferred down a level and were all conference.
And the guy who was our stud last year hadn’t been good enough to start on that awful team. Things looked bad enough that one of our more knowledgeable posters thought we’d struggle to score 50 ppg. But we were pretty good - much better than the previous year’s team that Justin Lewis couldn’t start for. Amazing what a good coach can do. We’ll miss Lewis (and to a lesser extent, Morsell and Kuath). But more than we were supposed to miss Carton, Garcia, Theo, Cain and Koby? We have a coach. That makes a difference. I think we’ll be OK.
Pretty misleading - the Duke transfer was one of the last guys off their bench. The unc transfer struggled mightily, dj went pro because he was tired of school and Justin didn’t play as much as he should have because of injury. The 50ppg trope was proven wrong very quickly and became a running joke as the season went on.
We significantly upgraded our coach and brought in several replacements who had proven themselves more than capable on the d1 level.
We’re going into a much different situation next season. Lots of unproven guys on the collegiate level jumping into larger roles. I hope they take large steps and believe in Shaka, but last year was the time to buy low. Any big time predictions - easily getting into the tournament - is made while drinking all of the blue and gold kool aid.
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Pretty misleading - the Duke transfer was one of the last guys off their bench. The unc transfer struggled mightily, dj went pro because he was tired of school and Justin didn’t play as much as he should have because of injury. The 50ppg trope was proven wrong very quickly and became a running joke as the season went on.
We significantly upgraded our coach and brought in several replacements who had proven themselves more than capable on the d1 level.
We’re going into a much different situation next season. Lots of unproven guys on the collegiate level jumping into larger roles. I hope they take large steps and believe in Shaka, but last year was the time to buy low. Any big time predictions - easily getting into the tournament - is made while drinking all of the blue and gold kool aid.
Theo was one of 7 Duke players that played in the FF and played 14 minutes that game.
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Theo was one of 7 Duke players that played in the FF and played 14 minutes that game.
He played a role - a very small role, but a role nonetheless. He doesn’t sniff Duke if it wasn’t for Wojo. Good for the young man, but the original statement oversells Theo.
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Lots of unproven guys on the collegiate level jumping into larger roles.
Kolek went from an A-10 off-the-ball guy to a ball-dominant Big East PG.
Morsell went from a defensive stopper who had never averaged more than 9 ppg to a go-to scorer.
Kuath went from part-time center to starter.
O-Max went from averaging 2.5 points in less than 10 mpg for Clemson to starting for Marquette.
Lewis went from 7.8 ppg guy to main man.
Elliott went from little-used, injury-prone player to key contributor off the bench.
Kam went from 3-star recruit to Big East instant-offense guy.
Oso went from playing 38 minutes his entire freshman year to having to play almost as many minutes as the starting center.
I'd say that going into last season, we had "lots of unproven guys on the collegiate level jumping into larger roles."
Shaka did a great job with them, and the players deserve a lot of credit for improving significantly and adjusting to their expanded and/or different roles. I sure hope we get a repeat of that ... but better!
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I do not believe Rothstein brazenly lied to a national audience.
Please offer proof that he did. Thanks.
I don't think he lied, but I would highly doubt he was the primary receiver. I would wager he heard it 2nd or 3rd hand. I don't think Shaka or Justin was the one telling him.
He's such a doofus. And unlike Fanta, he's not a likable goofy.
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I don't think he lied, but I would highly doubt he was the primary receiver. I would wager he heard it 2nd or 3rd hand. I don't think Shaka or Justin was the one telling him.
He's such a doofus. And unlike Fanta, he's not a likable goofy.
Either Lewis spoke/texted to him, or Rothstein was lying. Those are the only two choices.
I know you're only presenting what you said above as an opinion, which is good. Because there's no proof he was lying.
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He played a role - a very small role, but a role nonetheless. He doesn’t sniff Duke if it wasn’t for Wojo. Good for the young man, but the original statement oversells Theo.
He wasn't one of the last guys off of the bench either. It's not like he was Coach K's grandson.
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Kolek went from an A-10 off-the-ball guy to a ball-dominant Big East PG.
Morsell went from a defensive stopper who had never averaged more than 9 ppg to a go-to scorer.
Kuath went from part-time center to starter.
O-Max went from averaging 2.5 points in less than 10 mpg for Clemson to starting for Marquette.
Lewis went from 7.8 ppg guy to main man.
Elliott went from little-used, injury-prone player to key contributor off the bench.
Kam went from 3-star recruit to Big East instant-offense guy.
Oso went from playing 38 minutes his entire freshman year to having to play almost as many minutes as the starting center.
I'd say that going into last season, we had "lots of unproven guys on the collegiate level jumping into larger roles."
Shaka did a great job with them, and the players deserve a lot of credit for improving significantly and adjusting to their expanded and/or different roles. I sure hope we get a repeat of that ... but better!
Freshman of the year in the A10.
Defensive player of the year in the big 10 and someone who deferred to several NBA talents while at Maryland on the offensive end.
Kur didn’t quite fit in Lon Kruegers offensive system and didn’t starter minutes while at OU. When he did play more his last year, he did really well. He was more than capable on the defensive end at the high d1 level.
Those three guys all showed themselves as capable talents in larger roles over time at the division 1 level. Couple that with Justin and it created a more than capable core to compete in the BE. I said it early and often last year.
This year, we’re relying on guys to take big steps from reserve roles into starting spots. That’s much different than transfers coming in from established roles at their old programs and adjusting to a change in scenery. Much more of an unknown IMO.
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He wasn't one of the last guys off of the bench either. It's not like he was Coach K's grandson.
Theo and Joey Baker were the last guys off the bench. K’s grandson was the last guy on the bench. Huge difference !
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Freshman of the year in the A10.
Defensive player of the year in the big 10 and someone who deferred to several NBA talents while at Maryland on the offensive end.
Kur didn’t quite fit in Lon Kruegers offensive system and didn’t starter minutes while at OU. When he did play more his last year, he did really well. He was more than capable on the defensive end at the high d1 level.
Those three guys all showed themselves as capable talents in larger roles over time at the division 1 level. Couple that with Justin and it created a more than capable core to compete in the BE. I said it early and often last year.
This year, we’re relying on guys to take big steps from reserve roles into starting spots. That’s much different than transfers coming in from established roles at their old programs and adjusting to a change in scenery. Much more of an unknown IMO.
Yes, and this year we have a bunch of guys who stayed with the program who we have all seen with our own two eyes play a full season of college basketball, even if some of those played sparingly.
Just weird to say this season is more unknown when last year we had 3 guys who had ever even played in a MU uniform.
You reference TK as being known even last year, well hes still here.
Then you had guys like Omax, Oso, Kam, Stevie, Jop. Those are guys that we all know flat out can play at this level. How much they will grow, that is the unknown.
Last year not a single one of those guys did we have any inkling if they even belonged at Green Bay.
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Yes, and this year we have a bunch of guys who stayed with the program who we have all seen with our own two eyes play a full season of college basketball, even if some of those played sparingly.
Just weird to say this season is more unknown when last year we had 3 guys who had ever even played in a MU uniform.
You reference TK as being known even last year, well hes still here.
Then you had guys like Omax, Oso, Kam, Stevie, Jop. Those are guys that we all know flat out can play at this level. How much they will grow, that is the unknown.
Last year not a single one of those guys did we have any inkling if they even belonged at Green Bay.
I see the same talent. I do think Kam will struggle bit adjusting to his minute and shot volume load. Same goes for Stevie. Joplin is going to be an absolute menace offensively but I still have some real concerns about him on the defensive end.
Tyler’s best basketball will be played off the ball which means Stevie or Jones will need to be ready. Both I believe are quite capable, but it may not be this season. The less Tyler plays on the ball, the better he’ll be, but I don’t think we’ll see a significant improvement if he stays at Pg.
I do believe Omax is ready for a lead role.
Same can be said about most of our team imo. We’re going to see some awesome flashes, but there will be more struggles. If we maintain our core, two seasons from now will be prime time. Next year will be growing pains.
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I see a lot of developing talent and a lot of versatility. I see endless line up combinations. I see a team able to sustain pressure, not just for 40 minutes, but for 35 games.
I don't see a mauler down low.
I have my normal low expectations for the frosh. You always want them to be Big East ready. But if you build all of your hopes on that, you are disappointed more times than not.
I will probably stay in the cult of no expectations just to be obstinate and annoying, but I am more optimistic than I was a year ago.
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Yes, and this year we have a bunch of guys who stayed with the program who we have all seen with our own two eyes play a full season of college basketball, even if some of those played sparingly.
Just weird to say this season is more unknown when last year we had 3 guys who had ever even played in a MU uniform.
You reference TK as being known even last year, well hes still here.
Then you had guys like Omax, Oso, Kam, Stevie, Jop. Those are guys that we all know flat out can play at this level. How much they will grow, that is the unknown.
Last year not a single one of those guys did we have any inkling if they even belonged at Green Bay.
panda often makes good points in his posts, but he is one Scooper who stakes out his ground and pretty much never backs down even when facts show he might not have been 100% right on a particular point.
Kolek is a great example. Last year, he was asked to make a major step-up in competition and change his position to the most important one on the floor. Nobody here had any idea if he could do it; we just had to trust Shaka's judgment. Now, we know exactly what he is capable of on the floor, though we're all hoping he improves a lot. How one can look at those simple facts and say he's more of an unknown going into next season is just goofy.
Morsell and Lewis were asked to become major offensive players after having never been that on the D1 level.
And your points about O-Max, Oso, etc, are of course spot on.
I wish we had more top-tier players, but I'm still looking forward to seeing what this team can become.
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Omax, Kolek and Kur did not get a lot of love on scoop going into last season and all three played big roles. I will take my chances on seeing our returning guys making big strides going into next season. We know who we have coming back, and I think you can make a case for any of them becoming legit starter for P6 program in the next two seasons. There is not one returning guy that I do not think has high to very upside in their games.
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Tyler’s best basketball will be played off the ball which means Stevie or Jones will need to be ready. Both I believe are quite capable, but it may not be this season. The less Tyler plays on the ball, the better he’ll be, but I don’t think we’ll see a significant improvement if he stays at Pg.
I just do not understand this.
The ONE thing TK did really well last year was distribute. And you want to take him out of that role, and put him in a role in which he's - at best - unproven? WHY?????
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Kolek shot well from 3 off of catch and shoot. Both as a freshman and as a sophomore. He shot 3's very poorly off of the dribble. The theory behind playing Kolek off the ball is that he can catch it in a spot that he hits from. If he is open, he shoots. If the defense closes, then TK drives and creates like he did earlier in the season.
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Right. I think Shaka wants more than one distributor on the floor.
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I just do not understand this.
The ONE thing TK did really well last year was distribute. And you want to take him out of that role, and put him in a role in which he's - at best - unproven? WHY?????
He was great at catch-and-shoot and far more efficient as a scorer when playing off the ball at GMU. His distribution was excellent, but I think his best role is as a secondary ball-handler in a two-point-guard system. I'm hoping Sean Jones is that primary ball-handler and we can see them operate in tandem the way Courtney Ramey and Matt Coleman did at Texas, or for a more Big East-relevant example, Ryan Arcidiacono and Jalen Brunson. Modern basketball is going more and more to having multiple ball-handlers and providers to create not just for each other but for wing shooters at the arc and pick-and-roll finishers inside. We made do with Kolek mostly going it alone last year in that regard, but I think both Jones and Mitchell will be groomed to take part in that role as well going forward.
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So much doom and gloom on scoop. Omax will be better then Lewis!
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So much doom and gloom on scoop. Omax will be better then Lewis!
When? It's not like Justin was some 5th year senior who had reached his ceiling and OMax was some 17 year old freshman who's going to make his sophomore jump. They were both in their second year of college basketball and Justin is like 80 days older than OMax.
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Omax has a body type and skill set in high demand in the NBA. Let's hope he develops his skills enough.
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Too bad Oliver does not have access to a first class strength and conditioning program.
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Who's Oliver?
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panda often makes good points in his posts, but he is one Scooper who stakes out his ground and pretty much never backs down even when facts show he might not have been 100% right on a particular point.
Kolek is a great example. Last year, he was asked to make a major step-up in competition and change his position to the most important one on the floor. Nobody here had any idea if he could do it; we just had to trust Shaka's judgment. Now, we know exactly what he is capable of on the floor, though we're all hoping he improves a lot. How one can look at those simple facts and say he's more of an unknown going into next season is just goofy.
Morsell and Lewis were asked to become major offensive players after having never been that on the D1 level.
And your points about O-Max, Oso, etc, are of course spot on.
I wish we had more top-tier players, but I'm still looking forward to seeing what this team can become.
I watched Tyler play his freshman year and spoke to friends who coach d1 and they corroborated what I saw. A kid who was under recruited out of high school, supreme competitor and an elite court spacer/passer. He was ready to make the jump. Watching both Morsell and Kuath and Maryland and Oklahoma, they too were both more than well equipped to step in and make us competitive.
Posters expecting big things from Keeyan, Gold and Ellis is "goofy." There's nothing "goofy" about my takes. I made them before the season began and was one of the only ones who was bullish on last years team before the season started.
Barring massive jumps in development for several guys, next year may be a slog. The following season will be special.
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I just do not understand this.
The ONE thing TK did really well last year was distribute. And you want to take him out of that role, and put him in a role in which he's - at best - unproven? WHY?????
He played off the ball his freshman year and did enough to earn A10 freshman of the year. He can do both, but his skillset is better suited off the ball.
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I watched Tyler play his freshman year and spoke to friends who coach d1 and they corroborated what I saw. A kid who was under recruited out of high school, supreme competitor and an elite court spacer/passer. He was ready to make the jump. Watching both Morsell and Kuath and Maryland and Oklahoma, they too were both more than well equipped to step in and make us competitive.
Posters expecting big things from Keeyan, Gold and Ellis is "goofy." There's nothing "goofy" about my takes. I made them before the season began and was one of the only ones who was bullish on last years team before the season started.
Barring massive jumps in development for several guys, next year may be a slog. The following season will be special.
Is there anyone that actually said they expect "big things" from Keeyan, Gold or Ellis this year? Acknowledging potential upside and improvement is different than expecting those guys to be significant contributors.
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The jumper has a long way to go for OMax. Usually guys wings who are already 2 years into their college careers and are career 28% 3 point shooters aren't in high demand for the NBA level. But he shot it much better than he did as a freshman, so maybe he'll have another big jump in that area. To me the form isn't great. Pretty herky jerky. But so is Tatum's so who knows.
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Is there anyone that actually said they expect "big things" from Keeyan, Gold or Ellis this year? Acknowledging potential upside and improvement is different than expecting those guys to be significant contributors.
I think I said I expected big things from Ellis this year. Stand by that statement
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I watched Tyler play his freshman year and spoke to friends who coach d1 and they corroborated what I saw. A kid who was under recruited out of high school, supreme competitor and an elite court spacer/passer. He was ready to make the jump. Watching both Morsell and Kuath and Maryland and Oklahoma, they too were both more than well equipped to step in and make us competitive.
Posters expecting big things from Keeyan, Gold and Ellis is "goofy." There's nothing "goofy" about my takes. I made them before the season began and was one of the only ones who was bullish on last years team before the season started.
Barring massive jumps in development for several guys, next year may be a slog. The following season will be special.
Good call on MU being better than many expected last season.
Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree that Morsell and especially Kolek weren't being asked to play roles they never had played before at the D1 level, not to mention what was being asked of Lewis, O-Max, Oso and others compared to what they had shown before.
Here's hoping that next season's players similarly excel in new or expanded roles. We Are Marquette!
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Too bad Oliver does not have access to a first class strength and conditioning program.
Do you like gladiator movies?
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Scoop:
I want Marquette to be more like Wisconsin where these unknowns lead them to top-4 conference seasons.
Also scoop:
None of our guys are good and none of them will get better because they’re unknown
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I watched Tyler play his freshman year and spoke to friends who coach d1 and they corroborated what I saw. A kid who was under recruited out of high school, supreme competitor and an elite court spacer/passer. He was ready to make the jump. Watching both Morsell and Kuath and Maryland and Oklahoma, they too were both more than well equipped to step in and make us competitive.
Posters expecting big things from Keeyan, Gold and Ellis is "goofy." There's nothing "goofy" about my takes. I made them before the season began and was one of the only ones who was bullish on last years team before the season started.
Barring massive jumps in development for several guys, next year may be a slog. The following season will be special.
1) I can’t handle more slog. Too many seasons of slog 2) I guess I need to become a TK fan because right now I’m not.
3) TK, I’m selfish. Save me from the slog.
Ball in. Check
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I think I said I expected big things from Ellis this year. Stand by that statement
What makes you think so, JB?
As I said last year, to my eye EE looked like a guy suited for pickup ball at the Rec. What are people seeing that make them think he can make the jump to productive BE player?
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What makes you think so, JB?
As I said last year, to my eye EE looked like a guy suited for pickup ball at the Rec. What are people seeing that make them think he can make the jump to productive BE player?
He is quick and athletic, so he has the potential to step it up.
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Is there anyone that actually said they expect "big things" from Keeyan, Gold or Ellis this year? Acknowledging potential upside and improvement is different than expecting those guys to be significant contributors.
I feel like I’ve seen some posters saying they’re excited/expecting things from those guys. There’s nothing wrong with saying that but if you haven’t watched them play, it’s totally baseless speculation.
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Good call on MU being better than many expected last season.
Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree that Morsell and especially Kolek weren't being asked to play roles they never had played before at the D1 level, not to mention what was being asked of Lewis, O-Max, Oso and others compared to what they had shown before.
Here's hoping that next season's players similarly excel in new or expanded roles. We Are Marquette!
You not being aware they were ready for those roles because you never watched them play is much different from them actually not being prepared. There’s nothing wrong with not seeing them play, but saying they weren’t ready just because doesn’t make much sense to me.
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Just curious, if Omax, Kam and Oso were transferring to MU this season, would you be excited based off their numbers from last season? I think most of us would be very excited simply off off of numbers. Now, it might be different if you saw them play a dozen games, but I think there would be excitement adding these three guys.
For me, I saw them play last season and am very excited to see how they progress going into next season. I would much rather have returning guys with upside then being excited about transfers having nice stats from the previous season.
I have said it multiple times, but every guy, with exception of Kur, that has played for Shaka at MU is a basketball player, not just an athlete. I’ll take my chances on having a high level HC to develop players within the program.
IMO, the three guys mentioned were better than I expected last season and I expect additional improvement from them and all of the guys.
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Just curious, if Omax, Kam and Oso were transferring to MU this season, would you be excited based off their numbers from last season? I think most of us would be very excited simply off off of numbers. Now, it might be different if you saw them play a dozen games, but I think there would be excitement adding these three guys.
For me, I saw them play last season and am very excited to see how they progress going into next season. I would much rather have returning guys with upside then being excited about transfers having nice stats from the previous season.
I have said it multiple times, but every guy, with exception of Kur, that has played for Shaka at MU is a basketball player, not just an athlete. I’ll take my chances on having a high level HC to develop players within the program.
IMO, the three guys mentioned were better than I expected last season and I expect additional improvement from them and all of the guys.
I did say I’m excited/expecting a jump next season for Omax. I think kam will struggle shouldering more of a lead scoring role and Oso showed flashes last year, but really faded down the stretch. I like to see the game start to slow down for guys after a full season of consistent minutes, but he didn’t take much of a jump towards the end of the year.
To be very clear, I’m not down on any of the guys. I just think the following season, not next year, will be the special one if the core sticks together. This year may be a struggle with guys moving into roles they’re not yet ready for. Hoping for some big early developmental jumps.
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Just curious, if Omax, Kam and Oso were transferring to MU this season, would you be excited based off their numbers from last season? I think most of us would be very excited simply off off of numbers.
I'd add Tyler to that list, but agree completely. O-Max clearly has a ton of potential, was efficient, and can score inside and out. Kam was first team all freshmen, Oso was one of the highest efficiency players in the league. And Tyler led the league in assists while playing out of position.
All the added talent we need is already here, it just needs development.
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I'd add Tyler to that list, but agree completely. O-Max clearly has a ton of potential, was efficient, and can score inside and out. Kam was first team all freshmen, Oso was one of the highest efficiency players in the league. And Tyler led the league in assists while playing out of position.
All the added talent we need is already here, it just needs development.
Bingo. The more I look at it and think about it, the more excited I am
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I'd add Tyler to that list, but agree completely. O-Max clearly has a ton of potential, was efficient, and can score inside and out. Kam was first team all freshmen, Oso was one of the highest efficiency players in the league. And Tyler led the league in assists while playing out of position.
All the added talent we need is already here, it just needs development.
I do think Tyler will take big steps IF we get solid Pg play from Mitchell and Jones.
Next year could be fun if these guys can make quick jumps, but realistically I think high expectations (top 3-5 conference finish, winning games in the tournament) should be two season from now.
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I do think Tyler will take big steps IF we get solid Pg play from Mitchell and Jones.
Next year could be fun if these guys can make quick jumps, but realistically I think high expectations (top 3-5 conference finish, winning games in the tournament) should be two season from now.
Tournament is a crapshoot
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Tournament is a crapshoot
you’re a crap shoot
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you’re a crap shoot
Especially after a few coffees
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You not being aware they were ready for those roles because you never watched them play is much different from them actually not being prepared. There’s nothing wrong with not seeing them play, but saying they weren’t ready just because doesn’t make much sense to me.
If you say so.
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Especially after a few coffees
Careful with that stuff Richard it’s not even 900 am yet
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I would say that I would be most excited if Oso was an incoming transfer. He had big jump last year, with a late season fade, but until Feb most were very high on him. I expect him to be the most improved going into next season. He has a lot to work with and has some size, which is a good combo to work with.
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I would say that I would be most excited if Oso was an incoming transfer. He had big jump last year, with a late season fade, but until Feb most were very high on him. I expect him to be the most improved going into next season. He has a lot to work with and has some size, which is a good combo to work with.
Much of his success had to do with pnr w Tyler. Once that was shut down, his production dropped.
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I would say that I would be most excited if Oso was an incoming transfer. He had big jump last year, with a late season fade, but until Feb most were very high on him. I expect him to be the most improved going into next season. He has a lot to work with and has some size, which is a good combo to work with.
He was wildly efficient in limited minutes and usage. His problem was staying on the court as he was a bit foul-prone. Can he clean that up? He was the teams best offensive rebounder and second best shot-blocker. There’s an argument to be made he’s the most important player this upcoming season with regards to needing to improve
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Especially after a few coffees
Mexican will do it, too.
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He played off the ball his freshman year and did enough to earn A10 freshman of the year. He can do both, but his skillset is better suited off the ball.
So, your position essentially comes down to saying his performance in the Big East last year matters less than what he did two years ago against much inferior competition.
Not buying that.
And definitely not buying that his skillset is better suited off the ball. Everything we saw from his last year says the opposite.
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So, your position essentially comes down to saying his performance in the Big East last year matters less than what he did two years ago against much inferior competition.
Not buying that.
And definitely not buying that his skillset is better suited off the ball. Everything we saw from his last year says the opposite.
Yes - Shaka went out, recruited a PG this year and also said last year he wished TK could play off the ball more but couldn’t because he was our best option at the 1.
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Kolek shot .358 from 3 and .399 overall as an A-10 off guard (and he was much worse in both categories last season with Marquette). So now we're supposed to believe that he'll be the top option at the 2 for next season?
If that's the case, I hope he improves -- and not just a little but a freakin' ton. If not, that's not a great sign for the team.
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So much doom and gloom on scoop. Omax will be better then Lewis!
He certainly was against North Carolina.
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So much doom and gloom on scoop. Omax will be better then Lewis!
I'm not doom-and-gloomy ... but I'll believe O-Max will be better than a first-team All-Big East player when I see it.
If he is, we might be able to win the conference title.
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What makes you think so, JB?
As I said last year, to my eye EE looked like a guy suited for pickup ball at the Rec. What are people seeing that make them think he can make the jump to productive BE player?
The people that scouted him said that if he could develop a 3pt jumper to keep people honest and focused on one sport rather than both basketball and football, he could destroy as a score- first slashing pg. Also projected him as a future 2nd rounder in 2024 (247 scouts).
I think the shot is coming around due to a year working on it. He's fast, stronger and most importantly, tall. I think we see more this year of what those scouts saw then
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The people that scouted him said that if he could develop a 3pt jumper to keep people honest and focused on one sport rather than both basketball and football, he could destroy as a score- first slashing pg. Also projected him as a future 2nd rounder in 2024 (247 scouts).
I think the shot is coming around due to a year working on it. He's fast, stronger and most importantly, tall. I think we see more this year of what those scouts saw then
Cmon emarion ellis on draft boards? Are you serious ?
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Cmon emarion ellis on draft boards? Are you serious ?
Maybe question the source that was referenced instead.
When someone is projected as a 2nd round pick 3 years out of course take it with a massive grain of salt. With that being said, it doesn’t make sense to discount that kind of upside either.
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Maybe question the source that was referenced instead.
When someone is projected as a 2nd round pick 3 years out of course take it with a massive grain of salt. With that being said, it doesn’t make sense to discount that kind of upside either.
What kind of mock draft predicts 2024/25 second round picks ?
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The people that scouted him said that if he could develop a 3pt jumper to keep people honest and focused on one sport rather than both basketball and football, he could destroy as a score- first slashing pg. Also projected him as a future 2nd rounder in 2024 (247 scouts).
When EE first came on the scene at MU I studied his high school football tapes and was very impressed. He was a scrambling quarterback that really saw the field well. I figured if he could channel that athletic ability in football to basketball something good would come of it.
I think the shot is coming around due to a year working on it. He's fast, stronger and most importantly, tall. I think we see more this year of what those scouts saw then
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The people that scouted him said that if he could develop a 3pt jumper to keep people honest and focused on one sport rather than both basketball and football, he could destroy as a score- first slashing pg. Also projected him as a future 2nd rounder in 2024 (247 scouts).
I think the shot is coming around due to a year working on it. He's fast, stronger and most importantly, tall. I think we see more this year of what those scouts saw then
I hope that come to fruition. I don't see it, but hope I am wrong.
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I hope that come to fruition. I don't see it, but hope I am wrong.
To be clear I am not saying he makes the jump from last year to draft boards this year. I'm saying he has a lot of potential that I believe we will see it be unlocked this year and he will make a leap that many aren't expecting ( I think most are writing him off). People that watched him play thought if he got a higher anf more consistent jumper it would help his slashing and speed game. It looks a lot higher now.
I'm going with Sacar level jump here from season 1 to 2
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There are going to be multiple players on this team that take big leaps this year. Get excited
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There are going to be multiple players on this team that take big leaps this year. Get excited
I agree … and I sure hope we’re both right!
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There are going to be multiple players on this team that take big leaps this year. Get excited
But will they miss the slam after they leap big? That's the big question.
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Can a few players step up and hit threes consistently, and will we rebound. I think slashing to the basket will be a big part of the offense. But we need the combo to open things up. We will see. But it is a decent group of players, with some complimentary skills. So we will see. Hoping for the best. Go Marquette!
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Here's an interesting article that kind of puts non-athlete college students in the shoes of athletes who have to make big decisions about their careers even though they're considered borderline pro prospects.
Emphasis on "kind of"!
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/business/economy/the-potential-dark-side-of-a-white-hot-labor-market.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220607&instance_id=63392&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=94425&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Shanna Jackson, the president of Nashville State Community College, is struggling with a dilemma that reads like good news: Her students are taking jobs from employers who are eager to hire, and paying them good wages.
The problem is that students often drop their plans to earn a degree in order to take the attractive positions offered by these desperate employers. Ms. Jackson is worried that when the labor market cools — a near certainty as the Federal Reserve Board raises interest rates, slowing the economy in an attempt to control rapid inflation — an incomplete education will come back to haunt these students.
“If you’ve got housing costs rising, gas prices going up, food prices going up, the short-term decision is: Let me make money now, and I’ll go back to school later,” Ms. Jackson said. Anecdotally, she said, the issue is most intense in hospitality-related training programs, where credentials are often valued but not technically required.
Strong labor markets often encourage people to forgo training, but this economic moment poses unusually difficult trade-offs for students with families or other financial responsibilities. Cutting working hours to go to class right now means passing up the benefits of strong wage growth at a moment of soaring fuel, food and housing costs.
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Up to 32 in SI’s latest mock
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Up to 32 in SI’s latest mock
The SI staff writer who was given the report that Justin Lewis was staying in the draft, moved Justin Lewis up in his mock draft.
NBA media is just propaganda. I love it.
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The SI staff writer who was given the report that Justin Lewis was staying in the draft, moved Justin Lewis up in his mock draft.
NBA media is just propaganda. I love it.
I’ll bet when it’s all said and done he’s not far off though
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The SI staff writer who was given the report that Justin Lewis was staying in the draft, moved Justin Lewis up in his mock draft.
NBA media is just propaganda. I love it.
Not sure it is. He got the info on Justin, which may indicate he knows which teams worked Justin out (like #32) and are seriously interested.
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The SI staff writer who was given the report that Justin Lewis was staying in the draft, moved Justin Lewis up in his mock draft.
NBA media is just propaganda. I love it.
Sports Illustrated writers do not work for the NBA.
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The SI staff writer who was given the report that Justin Lewis was staying in the draft, moved Justin Lewis up in his mock draft.
NBA media is just propaganda. I love it.
probably the same guy that had Vander Blue going first round.
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My point was Jeremy Woo was the person who broke the news whether it be for Justin, or Roc Nation.
I want Justin taken as high as possible. I would just take this specific Big board with a grain of salt.
He's likely closer to the middle of the second than he is the first round.
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It would not surprise me if a team that has a late 1st traded down to the 35 range to get him.
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Miami Heat worked out Justin….. also Jamal Cain 8-)
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregSylvander/status/1534852598875963398?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1534854201477570561%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-38906932681567605740.ampproject.net%2F2205270638000%2Fframe.html
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Miami Heat worked out Justin….. also Jamal Cain 8-)
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregSylvander/status/1534852598875963398?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1534854201477570561%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-38906932681567605740.ampproject.net%2F2205270638000%2Fframe.html
The Heat like Marquette players.
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The Heat like Marquette players.
Correction: *LOVE* Marquette players.
Marquette players are directly responsible for all 6 of their NBA Finals Appearances and all 3 of their NBA Finals wins.
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Miami Heat worked out Justin….. also Jamal Cain 8-)
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregSylvander/status/1534852598875963398?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1534854201477570561%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-38906932681567605740.ampproject.net%2F2205270638000%2Fframe.html
Hermie,
Is Jamal your son?
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Hermie,
Is Jamal your son?
Thought is was Du Wilson
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The Athletic consulted NBA coaches, team execs and college coaches to rate the top forwards available for the draft. Lewis wasn't on the main list, but he was among those listed under "Best of the Rest":
NC State’s Dereon Seabron; Colorado State’s David Roddy; Ignite’s Michael Foster; Marquette’s Justin Lewis; Memphis’ Josh Minott and Connecticut’s Tyrese Martin.
Here's what a college assistant coach whose team played Marquette had to say about JL:
Absolute nightmare for us. … He was a nightmare. He was. He kicked our ass every time we played him. He’s tough, he’s 6-7. And this year, he improved his perimeter game. His freshman year he was mostly playing inside. Then he expanded his game, he started making 3s, he can go off the bounce, he’s explosive. He’s got long arms. I don’t know anything about his DNA, work ethic, what kind of kid is he? I don’t know any of that. But as a player, he’s a pretty talented kid. In today’s game, watching the NBA, yeah, he’s pretty good. Like him a lot. He was physical (defensively), he moved his feet. They played him at the four, so it’s not like he was guarding athletic wing guys or anything like that. But he tried. He competes.
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The Athletic consulted NBA coaches, team execs and college coaches to rate the top forwards available for the draft. Lewis wasn't on the main list, but he was among those listed under "Best of the Rest":
NC State’s Dereon Seabron; Colorado State’s David Roddy; Ignite’s Michael Foster; Marquette’s Justin Lewis; Memphis’ Josh Minott and Connecticut’s Tyrese Martin.
Here's what a college assistant coach whose team played Marquette had to say about JL:
Absolute nightmare for us. … He was a nightmare. He was. He kicked our ass every time we played him. He’s tough, he’s 6-7. And this year, he improved his perimeter game. His freshman year he was mostly playing inside. Then he expanded his game, he started making 3s, he can go off the bounce, he’s explosive. He’s got long arms. I don’t know anything about his DNA, work ethic, what kind of kid is he? I don’t know any of that. But as a player, he’s a pretty talented kid. In today’s game, watching the NBA, yeah, he’s pretty good. Like him a lot. He was physical (defensively), he moved his feet. They played him at the four, so it’s not like he was guarding athletic wing guys or anything like that. But he tried. He competes.
I believe Justin (1)scores high on Potential which the NBA Values and because (2) he is a proven performer at a high level , he is a very safe choice for many teams.
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The Athletic consulted NBA coaches, team execs and college coaches to rate the top forwards available for the draft. Lewis wasn't on the main list, but he was among those listed under "Best of the Rest":
NC State’s Dereon Seabron; Colorado State’s David Roddy; Ignite’s Michael Foster; Marquette’s Justin Lewis; Memphis’ Josh Minott and Connecticut’s Tyrese Martin.
Here's what a college assistant coach whose team played Marquette had to say about JL:
Absolute nightmare for us. … He was a nightmare. He was. He kicked our ass every time we played him. He’s tough, he’s 6-7. And this year, he improved his perimeter game. His freshman year he was mostly playing inside. Then he expanded his game, he started making 3s, he can go off the bounce, he’s explosive. He’s got long arms. I don’t know anything about his DNA, work ethic, what kind of kid is he? I don’t know any of that. But as a player, he’s a pretty talented kid. In today’s game, watching the NBA, yeah, he’s pretty good. Like him a lot. He was physical (defensively), he moved his feet. They played him at the four, so it’s not like he was guarding athletic wing guys or anything like that. But he tried. He competes.
It's interesting that this coach called him 'explosive' - since most here have questioned that. He reminds me of an old Buck in that way - Marques Johnson. He was so smooth that he never looked 'explosive', either.
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It's interesting that this coach called him 'explosive' - since most here have questioned that. He reminds me of an old Buck in that way - Marques Johnson. He was so smooth that he never looked 'explosive', either.
I guess it depends on how one defines it.
There were a few times last season that Lewis exploded to the hoop and threw one down and it was like, "Holy sh!t, did that really happen?!?!?!"
But he wasn't usually the kind of guy who could face up to his defender and then just explode past him. There aren't many like that, though.
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It's interesting that this coach called him 'explosive' - since most here have questioned that. He reminds me of an old Buck in that way - Marques Johnson. He was so smooth that he never looked 'explosive', either.
If you think I’m trusting NBA people or Scoop, I’ll take Scoop every time. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Justin, aina?
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He gowne, hey?
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He gowne, hey?
::)
I guess we should just stop talking about him then, huh.
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He gowne, hey?
Don’t let the door hit him on the way out.
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He gowne, hey?
I still think he might be back.
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Lazy. Bad body language. And also heard he farts too much.
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In the group of "Best of the Rest". Hmm. ?-(
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Lazy. Bad body language. And also heard he farts too much.
100%
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Lazy. Bad body language. And also heard he farts too much.
He likes him some Real Chili.
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CBS has him 39th overall.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-mock-draft-two-round-projection-has-all-58-picks-surprise-prospect-jumping-into-top-five/
He may be a smidge undersized for an NBA power forward, but Lewis brings physicality and versatility to the table to make him a real NBA prospect. He can score inside and out and is comfortable playing down low despite the height he gives up.
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100%
That would be too much effort
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The Athletic's John Hollinger, who spent 7 seasons as the Grizzlies' VP of basketball operations, ranks Lewis #27 in his latest look at the NBA Draft:
Lewis can be frustrating at times: A little too chilled out on defense, a little too jump-shot dependent on offense. I just can’t see how I could rank him any lower than this. He’s 6-6 with an enormous 7-2 wingspan, has a strong frame that should allow him to play four in almost any matchup if his team wants to size down, and he had a 32.5-inch standing vertical.
The basketball stuff went OK too. Lewis shot decently and on relatively high volume, and is very comfortable shooting off the dribble against smaller defenders. He rebounds well and can be a very good defender when in a stance and engaged.
The big thing that puts him at the tail end of my first-round grades, however, is that every team needs switchable forwards who can make an open shot. Lewis doesn’t even need to get that much better to fill in a back-end rotation spot, and he has upside to be quite a bit better.
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The Athletic's John Hollinger, who spent 7 seasons as the Grizzlies' VP of basketball operations, ranks Lewis #27 in his latest look at the NBA Draft:
Lewis can be frustrating at times: A little too chilled out on defense, a little too jump-shot dependent on offense. I just can’t see how I could rank him any lower than this. He’s 6-6 with an enormous 7-2 wingspan, has a strong frame that should allow him to play four in almost any matchup if his team wants to size down, and he had a 32.5-inch standing vertical.
The basketball stuff went OK too. Lewis shot decently and on relatively high volume, and is very comfortable shooting off the dribble against smaller defenders. He rebounds well and can be a very good defender when in a stance and engaged.
The big thing that puts him at the tail end of my first-round grades, however, is that every team needs switchable forwards who can make an open shot. Lewis doesn’t even need to get that much better to fill in a back-end rotation spot, and he has upside to be quite a bit better.
He has Johnny Davis at #29 noting that Davis’s outside shooting is not great to start with and fades the longer the shot along with his reliance on tough pull up 2s.
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He has Johnny Davis at #29 noting that Davis’s outside shooting is not great to start with and fades the longer the shot along with his reliance on tough pull up 2s.
Justin at 27 & Johnny at 29? This is a draft I like
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Justin at 27 & Johnny at 29? This is a draft I like
I thought Johnny was better than Wade, according to Madison sources.
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I thought Johnny was better than Wade, according to Madison sources.
Hahahaha now that's funny.
Some peoples lists would say there aren't even 20 players better than Wade in basketball history.
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That was a great evaluation. Would be awesome if Justin went in the first round.
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He has Johnny Davis at #29 noting that Davis’s outside shooting is not great to start with and fades the longer the shot along with his reliance on tough pull up 2s.
That would be awesome if Lewis goes ahead of Chalupa Man.
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The Athletic's John Hollinger, who spent 7 seasons as the Grizzlies' VP of basketball operations, ranks Lewis #27 in his latest look at the NBA Draft:
Lewis can be frustrating at times: A little too chilled out on defense
Too “chilled out” on defense? Did this guy just call Justin lazy (at times)?
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Too “chilled out” on defense? Did this guy just call Justin lazy (at times)?
No.
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Too “chilled out” on defense? Did this guy just call Justin lazy (at times)?
Ha! Stirring the pot Lenny!
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Ha! Stirring the pot Lenny!
Can you stir an empty pot?
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Can you stir an empty pot?
Some may say you don’t need a pot at all.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/21I4BZrxdDofgO8XJh/200.gif)
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Too “chilled out” on defense? Did this guy just call Justin lazy (at times)?
Absolutely.
And has a strong frame is obviously questioning JL's body language.
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Absolutely.
And has a strong frame is obviously questioning JL's body language.
Strong frame is obviously an asset, a plus.
Being “too chilled out on D? Not so much
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Lazy. Bad body language. And also heard he farts too much.
the best defense is a good offense, eyn'a?
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New Athletic mock has Justin going #47 to the Griz.
47. Memphis Grizzlies (via Cavs) – Justin Lewis | 6-7 wing | Marquette | 20 years old
Roster, stash or G League: G League. Justin Lewis could be much higher in this draft with his 7-foot-2 wingspan, but he needs to learn how to play with much more force and accuracy. He’s a potential defensive terror.
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From a group of 7 scouts:
Justin Lewis, 6-7 sophomore forward, Marquette. “I would have loved to see him go back for one more year. Good athlete, but not a great athlete. He can be a four-man in the Jae Crowder mold. He’s got a big body and some really big legs. I don’t know if he has that basketball toughness about him. Complete long term, upside play. He doesn’t run that hard, he’s not a true professional in that sense, but the body and flashes of brilliance are there. I don’t think he can pass at all. I don’t think he handles it well. There were games this year where he kind of gave up and disappeared. Grabbed eight rebounds a game, which is pretty good. I got close to him in Chicago, and I was shocked how big he was. He’s a good value in the mid-second round.”
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Aka, lazy, aina?
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Aka, lazy, aina?
Looks like Marquette dodged a bullet when he left for the NBA
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Aka, lazy, aina?
“Games where he kind of gave up”, “he doesn’t run that hard”.
But if you noticed these rather obvious facts and posted them here you were a hater, maybe even a racist. Scoop at its finest.
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(https://i.imgur.com/hs8GjRc.gif)
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“Games where he kind of gave up”, “he doesn’t run that hard”.
But if you noticed these rather obvious facts and posted them here you were a hater, maybe even a racist. Scoop at its finest.
Lenny his take is extreme. You know better and are more nuanced. Quit bending your knee to the lowest common denominator.
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Justin was so lazy, he didn’t even write a letter to get the ball more. Sad!
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Soon to be professional athletes get to being one of the top 40-60 draft eligible players in the world in a given year by being lazy, no doubt.
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I am so glad we got rid of that guy.
Word is, he actually wanted to come back, but Shaka said, "Hit the bricks, you lazy loser."
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The Athletic's latest "live" mock draft from Sam Vecenie:
44. Atlanta Hawks: Justin Lewis | 6-8 wing | 20 years old | Marquette
Thank goodness we're done with Lazy Lewis. If only Shaka hadn't stoopidly kept him on the team last year, we'd have capped a 30-win season with a Final Four run.
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I really hope Justin is drafted mid 2nd. I do think though that generally the mock drafts in the past aren't particularly accurate after the first 15 picks or so.
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Lenny his take is extreme. You know better and are more nuanced. Quit bending your knee to the lowest common denominator.
That NBA scout hates Justin Lewis, would never want him on the college team he cheers for and is very likely a racist in The World According To Scoop Idiots.
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I really hope Justin is drafted mid 2nd. I do think though that generally the mock drafts in the past aren't particularly accurate after the first 15 picks or so.
Muggsy: It is looking good for Justin in second round . He is now in everyone’s mock, the last holdout posted him yesterday . If for some reason he doesn’t get drafted ( trades can impact ) he will get a two way contract which is worth good money
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That NBA scout hates Justin Lewis, would never want him on the college team he cheers for and is very likely a racist in The World According To Scoop Idiots.
Oh boy.
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That NBA scout hates Justin Lewis, would never want him on the college team he cheers for and is very likely a racist in The World According To Scoop Idiots.
Why did Shaka want him on the team? He enables lazy players? Why didn't he bench Lewis the way he benched Morsell, Kolek and Kuath?
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That NBA scout hates Justin Lewis, would never want him on the college team he cheers for and is very likely a racist in The World According To Scoop Idiots.
You're really becoming an embarrassing version of your former self.
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Over at Draft Kings, you can get +1000 on Justin to go in the 1st round.
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It's really a simple equation. Either you don't think Lewis is lazy, or you think that Shaka is a stoopid coach who enables laziness by giving significantly more playing time to a lazy guy than to any other player.
Which is it?
If it's the latter, it doesn't bode well for Marquette's program under Shaka.
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You're really becoming an embarrassing version of your former self.
Smitty
I’m frequently embarrassed on your behalf. Glad I could return the favor.
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It's really a simple equation. Either you don't think Lewis is lazy, or you think that Shaka is a stoopid coach who enables laziness by giving significantly more playing time to a lazy guy than to any other player.
Which is it?
If it's the latter, it doesn't bode well for Marquette's program under Shaka.
You can’t possibly be this dense but your “either or” is what’s stoopid.
Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
Get a grip.
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You can’t possibly be this dense but your “either or” is what’s stoopid.
Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
Get a grip.
You don’t. Some do.
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You can’t possibly be this dense but your “either or” is what’s stoopid.
Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
Get a grip.
That is the answer and what you feel. Normal Lenny. Slyly defending a fellow scooper when their take was extremely silly is what doesn’t seem normal for you.
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Smitty
I’m frequently embarrassed on your behalf. Glad I could return the favor.
Ah. "I know you are but what am I?" Good one.
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You can’t possibly be this dense but your “either or” is what’s stoopid.
Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
Get a grip.
I’m not sure how much scouts talk to college coaches versus front office people talking to college coaches. Scout says he’s “lazy” on defense and then the front office could talk to Shaka, who tells them: “yeah, I told him to take it easy defensively, I had an elite perimeter defender and a really good shot blocker. I needed his energy on offense.”
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You can’t possibly be this dense but your “either or” is what’s stoopid.
Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
Get a grip.
Nobody ever portrayed Lewis as "perfect," Lenny, so get a grip.
I still can't believe Shaka kept running a "lazy" player onto the court over and over and over again. Most minutes on the team, by far, to a lazy guy! What kind of coach does that?
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
NBA drafts on potential, so no.
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
Uh…no.
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Justin Lewis is a gifted player. I liked him better than Dawson as a freshman and he was our best player last year. But (sit down, this is going to come as a major shock) he wasn’t perfect. Anybody who watches our games with a remotely honest eye at times saw the same thing that the NBA scout saw. That doesn’t mean I was glad to see him go. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like him as a player and cheer for him.
100% correct. This scout's take, and Vecenie's analysis in The Athletic are fair criticisms.
I do also think that sitting out the combine scrimmages was a bad move on his part. He had a chance to flip the narrative a bit and didn't take it.
That said, I hope he goes as high as possible and sticks in the league.
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the other side of the equation is, and don't get me wrong, i very much enjoyed his play for us, BUT he might be one of those dudes built more for the college game than the pros. there have been many great college ball'ers who fit that mold.
justin always seemed to be moving at a different speed. sometimes one can get away with that via "smarts" and/or against college level talent, not pro. to compare him to jae is being very very kind
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the other side of the equation is, and don't get me wrong, i very much enjoyed his play for us, BUT he might be one of those dudes built more for the college game than the pros. there have been many great college ball'ers who fit that mold.
justin always seemed to be moving at a different speed. sometimes one can get away with that via "smarts" and/or against college level talent, not pro. to compare him to jae is being very very kind
He and jae are very different players. It’s a lazy comparison.
*not from you - from the article posted recently.
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
::) LOL
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NBA drafts on potential, so no.
4ever won't compute, will stay on a nest loop...
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100% correct. This scout's take, and Vecenie's analysis in The Athletic are fair criticisms.
I do also think that sitting out the combine scrimmages was a bad move on his part. He had a chance to flip the narrative a bit and didn't take it.
That said, I hope he goes as high as possible and sticks in the league.
Agree on all accounts - I’ll also be rooting for him on draft night and going forward.
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
You see the future now? Dumb
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Before y'all rip on fellow Scoopers, perhaps NBA scouts, independent of consultation with the intelligentsia of this website, have formed their own analysis of #10 and how it translates to the Association. If Justin isn't lazy, then possibly he's simply stupid. Taking plays off literally has cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, aina?
Another who thinks Shaka is "simply stupid" for giving 32 mpg to a lazy and/or stupid player.
Beyond that, you couldn't be talkin' out your ass more on this subject if your rectum had teeth.
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the other side of the equation is, and don't get me wrong, i very much enjoyed his play for us, BUT he might be one of those dudes built more for the college game than the pros. there have been many great college ball'ers who fit that mold.
justin always seemed to be moving at a different speed. sometimes one can get away with that via "smarts" and/or against college level talent, not pro. to compare him to jae is being very very kind
NO.... Jae is a very fair comparison. A TWEENER. No position and can work hard in the right situation. Jae is dead spot on.
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NO.... Jae is a very fair comparison. A TWEENER. No position and can work hard in the right situation. Jae is dead spot on.
The only reason that comparison is made is they both went to Marquette. If Jae was 6'7" with a 7'1" wingspan he'd be a perennial starter with All-Star appearances under his belt. He's a tweener because he has a power forward's game and shooting guard's frame.
Justin has appropriate size to be a 3/4 wing & models his game like that. He's just a bit slow of foot for the next level, whereas Jae's ability to defend multiple positions was never in question. I really don't see them as similar beyond wearing blue and gold in college.
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Isn’t it possible that Justin, even not going full out, was still our best option to be on the floor? I don’t know that anyone would call him a high motor player. He definitely had times where I thought he was checked out a little bit.
It seems NBA guys have seen that too. Still a very good player and I’m going to miss him, but not out of line to wonder if the effort was always there.
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The only reason that comparison is made is they both went to Marquette. If Jae was 6'7" with a 7'1" wingspan he'd be a perennial starter with All-Star appearances under his belt. He's a tweener because he has a power forward's game and shooting guard's frame.
Justin has appropriate size to be a 3/4 wing & models his game like that. He's just a bit slow of foot for the next level, whereas Jae's ability to defend multiple positions was never in question. I really don't see them as similar beyond wearing blue and gold in college.
Yeah I wouldn’t label Justin a “tweener” at all. The most consistent positive scouting reports mention is his frame.
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Isn’t it possible that Justin, even not going full out, was still our best option to be on the floor? I don’t know that anyone would call him a high motor player. He definitely had times where I thought he was checked out a little bit.
It seems NBA guys have seen that too. Still a very good player and I’m going to miss him, but not out of line to wonder if the effort was always there.
I don’t disagree. That doesn’t equate to “lazy” however.
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If Justin had played with Sam Hauser instead of guys more concerned with going to woke protests, he’d have learned how to work hard and never quit on your team.
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Latest ESPN mock has :
43. Justin
45. PBjr
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34121058/2022-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-58-picks-based-latest-intel-scouting
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Crowder made the nba in spite of his frame/size/athleticism. He was/is a crazy hard worker, effort guy.
Lewis has an pro ready body and skill set which is why he was on nba radars pre season last year.
Aside from the Marquette similarity, they are two totally different prospects and players.
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Good luck to Justin. Thank you for your contribution to MU basketball.
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Why does everyone keep hammering the fact that they think Justin is lazy?
He's just not quick on his feet. He just turned 20 and is in all likelihood still growing into his body. Effort has never been an issue with him.
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Why does everyone keep hammering the fact that they think Justin is lazy?
He's just not quick on his feet. He just turned 20 and is in all likelihood still growing into his body. Effort has never been an issue with him.
It was brought up last year a number of times last year, and the scouts apparently see it. The quote from the Athletic piece:
"He doesn’t run that hard, he’s not a true professional in that sense, ... There were games this year where he kind of gave up and disappeared.”
So they kind of think effort has been an issue.
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Sports Illustrated has Justin at 33
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-latest-buzz-predictions
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It was brought up last year a number of times last year, and the scouts apparently see it. The quote from the Athletic piece:
"He doesn’t run that hard, he’s not a true professional in that sense, ... There were games this year where he kind of gave up and disappeared.”
So they kind of think effort has been an issue.
😂
Gave up? Ok.
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😂
Gave up? Ok.
You may have a different opinion, but it would not be a consensus by any stretch.
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You may have a different opinion, but it would not be a consensus by any stretch.
I's like to know the games people thought Justin gave up and disappeared.
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😂
Gave up? Ok.
He was great in the winning streak, but definitely had some games where he struggled after that, including high exposure games like the back-to-back weekend games against Creighton and Butler, the Big East Tourney loss, and the NCAA loss. Yes, I'm absolutely cherry-picking, but I'm cherry picking what were likely our four most-watched games late in the season when Justin had a 33.0 eFG% and was a miserable 3/23 from long range.
He had some great stretches and came up big late in some games, but also had some games where he was very forgettable and wasn't a positive difference maker late. And that's okay, he's a young player trying to grow into an NBA role, but he's far from an ideal prospect and there are definitely knocks on his game.
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He was great in the winning streak, but definitely had some games where he struggled after that, including high exposure games like the back-to-back weekend games against Creighton and Butler, the Big East Tourney loss, and the NCAA loss. Yes, I'm absolutely cherry-picking, but I'm cherry picking what were likely our four most-watched games late in the season when Justin had a 33.0 eFG% and was a miserable 3/23 from long range.
He had some great stretches and came up big late in some games, but also had some games where he was very forgettable and wasn't a positive difference maker late. And that's okay, he's a young player trying to grow into an NBA role, but he's far from an ideal prospect and there are definitely knocks on his game.
Not coming up big (shooting poorly) is different than giving up.
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I think it’s more his personality than anything. It did appear he coasted at points during the season and appeared disinterested, but compare the bad moments with the good moments - nova game winning shot - and he was very stoic after.
Watching him for two seasons, he isn’t a lazy player, but is still learning how to be assertive on the offensive end. You can find knocks on him, but laziness is definitely not one of them.
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He was great in the winning streak, but definitely had some games where he struggled after that, including high exposure games like the back-to-back weekend games against Creighton and Butler, the Big East Tourney loss, and the NCAA loss. Yes, I'm absolutely cherry-picking, but I'm cherry picking what were likely our four most-watched games late in the season when Justin had a 33.0 eFG% and was a miserable 3/23 from long range.
He had some great stretches and came up big late in some games, but also had some games where he was very forgettable and wasn't a positive difference maker late. And that's okay, he's a young player trying to grow into an NBA role, but he's far from an ideal prospect and there are definitely knocks on his game.
I agree that there were games he was bad. There always will be games like that, especially with a 19/20 year old. But to say he gave up is just a slap in the face IMO.
In those 4 games:
129 minutes (32.25 avg.)
23-59 from the field
61 points
31 rebounds
Bad yes. Gave up. No chance.
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I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin. Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't. Jae was an incredible defender. Justin? Average. Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.
I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete. I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working. Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop. I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM. Lots to work with/potential.
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I don’t disagree. That doesn’t equate to “lazy” however.
Relative to the average person, I wouldn’t consider Lewis lazy at all. Though, his lack of motor is one of his biggest weaknesses as numerous NBA scouts and many on here have pointed out in the last few months.
If you look at the most recent MU forwards that were drafted (Hayward, Crowder, Butler), I would rank Lewis last in the “effort” categories that are sometimes hard to quantify (charges taken, 50/50 balls won, deflections, etc).
I think Lewis could have a bright career as an NBA player, but it’ll need to be more in the trenches than what we saw at MU.
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I agree that there were games he was bad. There always will be games like that, especially with a 19/20 year old. But to say he gave up is just a slap in the face IMO.
In those 4 games:
129 minutes (32.25 avg.)
23-59 from the field
61 points
31 rebounds
Bad yes. Gave up. No chance.
As Sultan said, you are free to hold that opinion, but the idea that there were effort questions around Justin have come from online fans, NBA scouts, and coaches in the league. If it was just a couple Scoopers, I could see dismissing it, but if I were in Justin's shoes, it's certainly something I'd be working my ass off to disprove when it comes to workouts and interviews, because it does seem to be a genuine concern held by basketball professionals beyond this board.
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I think it’s more his personality than anything. It did appear he coasted at points during the season and appeared disinterested, but compare the bad moments with the good moments - nova game winning shot - and he was very stoic after.
Watching him for two seasons, he isn’t a lazy player, but is still learning how to be assertive on the offensive end. You can find knocks on him, but laziness is definitely not one of them.
He started getting double teamed a lot and became the focus of teams once MU was figured out. They were letting other players be the offensive focus, it gets exhausting for a player to be double team continuously.
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I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin. Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't. Jae was an incredible defender. Justin? Average. Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.
I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete. I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working. Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop. I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM. Lots to work with/potential.
Jae is a guy who's a really difficult comp for just about anyone. Honestly, I'd compare him more to a Rodman type than anyone else. They may have had different games, but both guys played positions typically held by bigger men and found their success primarily through sheer force of will. I've seen very few players who had the indomitable effort level Jae did. It's also the main reason I expected him to stick in the league for a long time, simply because he's that guy who'll always bust his ass to find a place.
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I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin. Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't. Jae was an incredible defender. Justin? Average. Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.
I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete. I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working. Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop. I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM. Lots to work with/potential.
Jae was a better shooter than Justin in his 2 seasons. Jae was 35% on treys and 58% on two pointers while Justin was 33% and 49%….
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Justin wasn't lazy and I don't recall any games where he "gave up". However, there were moments here and there where there was a bad play or a lapse and he would put his head down, or have poor body language, or not hustle back. Those didn't happen often but that did occur. I think people put more weight on them and even incorrectly start to believe those instances were much more common than they actually were.
I also have to imagine this was part of the feedback Justin received as he went through the pre-draft process and is something that is easily correctable.
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Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.
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Comparable for Jae: Marcus Smart?
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Justin wasn't lazy and I don't recall any games where he "gave up". However, there were moments here and there where there was a bad play or a lapse and he would put his head down, or have poor body language, or not hustle back. Those didn't happen often but that did occur. I think people put more weight on them and even incorrectly start to believe those instances were much more common than they actually were.
I also have to imagine this was part of the feedback Justin received as he went through the pre-draft process and is something that is easily correctable.
Yes. And every other player did the same. In an ideal world, as the best player, Justin never would have relented or put his head down for one second, but that's simply not realistic. You miss a layup or throw a bad pass, and you're mad at yourself, and that can cause you to be a couple seconds late getting back. It happens to every player, including the best in the world.
Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.
Not splitting hairs at all IMHO -- this is an excellent take.
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Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.
Yep yep
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Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.
28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.
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Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.
28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.
The only thing lazy here is your comparison. Howard was injured.
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Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.
28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.
I just read through the last two pages and the only thing lazy is your attempts to follow along with the discussion that everyone else is having.
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The only thing lazy here is your comparison. Howard was injured.
Injured and lazy. Terrible combo.
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Comparable for Jae: Marcus Smart?
That's an insult to Jae
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Comparable for Jae: Marcus Smart?
Not even close. Smart is a 6'3 PG/combo guard. And he never did his damage inside like Jae has.
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My comp for Justin is Kyle Anderson.
With the potential to be more athletic.
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My comp for Justin is Kyle Anderson.
With the potential to be more athletic.
He reminds me of Travis Diener
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Cheap plug: Posting past Marquette draft pick selections all day at http://www.twitter.com/muoverload
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Yes. And every other player did the same. In an ideal world, as the best player, Justin never would have relented or put his head down for one second, but that's simply not realistic. You miss a layup or throw a bad pass, and you're mad at yourself, and that can cause you to be a couple seconds late getting back. It happens to every player, including the best in the world.
Ah, the old “everybody does it” excuse. Almost never accurate. Or compelling.
If “everybody” does it how come it’s not in everybody’s scouting report?
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Anyone that thinks his body language is not something of note is not being honest, IMO. I have watched a lot basketball over the years and I have not heard announcers single out guys on body language very often, yet it was mentioned more than once by an announcer last year. There are intangibles in life and I think it is always best to leave nothing to chance and I think Lewis left that to chance. Who knows, maybe he drops a few spots because of that and the team that gets him ends up an all star player.
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Anyone that thinks his body language is not something of note is not being honest, IMO. I have watched a lot basketball over the years and I have not heard announcers single out guys on body language very often, yet it was mentioned more than once by an announcer last year. There are intangibles in life and I think it is always best to leave nothing to chance and I think Lewis left that to chance. Who knows, maybe he drops a few spots because of that and the team that gets him ends up an all star player.
Agree with you Goose. It cannot be statistically measured, so it is easily dismissed as nonexistent. I saw it late season '18-19' but can I prove it was present? No.
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Ah, the old “everybody does it” excuse. Almost never accurate. Or compelling.
If “everybody” does it how come it’s not in everybody’s scouting report?
Read LAZAR's post.
And yes, everybody does it.
I also find it pretty humorous that some of those who defend Joey at every turn so easily criticize a first-team All-Big East player who has accomplished waaaaaaay more than Joey has. And that includes the 3 years after Joey left Marquette to be mentored by a Hall of Fame coach.
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Read LAZAR's post.
And yes, everybody does it.
I also find it pretty humorous that some of those who defend Joey at every turn so easily criticize a first-team All-Big East player who has accomplished waaaaaaay more than Joey has. And that includes the 3 years after Joey left Marquette to be mentored by a Hall of Fame coach.
Joey Turnover, Justin the Slouth. Come on man!
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A heat reporter (Brady Hawk) is very in on Justin and would not be surprised if the Heat trade into the second round to draft him.
Makes sense as Heat have had success with Marquette players.
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Like the Heat can evaluate talent
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A heat reporter (Brady Hawk) is very in on Justin and would not be surprised if the Heat trade into the second round to draft him.
Makes sense as Heat have had success with Marquette players.
Mentioned this in the mock draft thread, but The Athletic's John Hollinger has the Heat taking Justin at #27 overall.
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Anyone that thinks his body language is not something of note is not being honest, IMO. I have watched a lot basketball over the years and I have not heard announcers single out guys on body language very often, yet it was mentioned more than once by an announcer last year. There are intangibles in life and I think it is always best to leave nothing to chance and I think Lewis left that to chance. Who knows, maybe he drops a few spots because of that and the team that gets him ends up an all star player.
You mean the TV anouncers who quote the same facts or pieces of info about a player every game ad nauseum?
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Honestly kinda stunned. This isn’t a Markus situation where he was older and well, short.
Justin had really good metrics at the combine. His wallet took a massive hit. Woulda made more NIL money somewhere.
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Honestly kinda stunned. This isn’t a Markus situation where he was older and well, short.
Justin had really good metrics at the combine. His wallet took a massive hit. Woulda made more NIL money somewhere.
I'm quite surprised as well.
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Undrafted. Holy s**t did he have the same guys advising him as Vander? Unreal
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Undrafted. Holy s**t did he have the same guys advising him as Vander? Unreal
It was pretty clear shortly after Vander declared that he’d go undrafted.
Justin not getting picked is pretty shocking.
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Two-way with the Bulls.
As a Bulls fan works for me!!
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It was pretty clear shortly after Vander declared that he’d go undrafted.
Justin not getting picked is pretty shocking.
The only person in the world who thought Vander had a chance at being drafted was Vander. If the draft was 3 rounds, he still likely wouldn’t have been drafted.
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Surprised for sure. Don’t know what advice he got from who but wow. I feel bad for Justin and wish he could come back.
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Surprised.
But at least the haters are happy.
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He takes too many plays off. He doesn't go hard all the time. NBA scouts tend to take note of such things.
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Bulls are a good spot for him. Shaka and Billy are tight, are they not?
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Honestly kinda stunned. This isn’t a Markus situation where he was older and well, short.
Justin had really good metrics at the combine. His wallet took a massive hit. Woulda made more NIL money somewhere.
He's still going to make close to 1/2m if he sticks alive with developing against the best talent in the world. It sucks we can't watch him at MU, but from a career standpoint he is still probably better off.
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He takes too many plays off. He doesn't go hard all the time. NBA scouts tend to take note of such things.
Please provide video evidence of 5 plays he took off. Thanks.
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Surprised.
But at least the haters are happy.
FFS. No one is happy about this.
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Been saying since the beginning he should have stayed another year. That proved to probably be correct, though it's hard to say he made the wrong decision and it's definitely not because he's lazy.
He just has a lot to work on and always did. That was clear. He was clearly set on the NBA and just wanted to move on to his next chapter. Maybe cost him some Big $$$ but that we will never know. This is his path.
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
🙄🙄🙄
Yeah. Not a surprise at all. Since pretty much every mock had him drafted.
I guess the guys doing those mocks should have called you ai’nna?
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
Yes, no surprise at all when he is in every mock draft and talk he may sneak into the first round. For a Marquette alum and fan, you sure like cheering against the success of your fellow Golden Eagles.
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
::)
The dentist somehow knew more than every prognosticator that does this for a living.
And you seems to be enjoying that you were “right” at the expense of the kid getting drafted. Speaks volumes.
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Speaking of mocks. Y'all are so quick to mock anyone who holds a different opinion than those who shout the loudest. Hate has no home here, hey?
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Speaking of mocks. Y'all are so quick to mock anyone who holds a different opinion than those who shout the loudest. Hate has no home here, hey?
I heard someone was starting a new message board and sent a letter to scoop about it
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The only person in the world who thought Vander had a chance at being drafted was Vander. If the draft was 3 rounds, he still likely wouldn’t have been drafted.
Two hot takes in 12 hours, new record!
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
Let's get you to bed, grandpa.
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Meh, second round is only slightly better then a two way. Since a two way, the player gets a choice in teams, it’s all a wash for me.
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Yes, no surprise at all when he is in every mock draft and talk he may sneak into the first round. For a Marquette alum and fan, you sure like cheering against the success of your fellow Golden Eagles.
once again geeko, wrong take-doc ain't cheering anything. just stating a real observation from the outside looking in with some real knowledge. some of you here beat on the messengers with accurate takes ya hate but cheer on those who are wrong but love the same flavor ice cream. no room for brain freeze here dude.
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Let's get you to bed, grandpa.
Great grandpa
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Let's get you to bed, grandpa.
Bryan, until you've got your 8 miles of walking in this morning, you've got nothing worthwhile to say, hey?
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Speaking of mocks. Y'all are so quick to mock anyone who holds a different opinion than those who shout the loudest. Hate has no home here, hey?
Same people who said no way no how Wojo was getting the boot!! We just need 15 years to judge then Wojo will FINALLY have his team!
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Meh, second round is only slightly better then a two way. Since a two way, the player gets a choice in teams, it’s all a wash for me.
exactly MU-this allows JL to be a free agent now and show a bunch of people wrong if he can. i hope he does, but now it's mostly in his court
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Speaking of mocks. Y'all are so quick to mock anyone who holds a different opinion than those who shout the loudest. Hate has no home here, hey?
Cry me a river, what a whiner.
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No river needed. I hear Puerto Rico has an abundance of swamps, aina?
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Surprised for sure. Don’t know what advice he got from who but wow. I feel bad for Justin and wish he could come back.
assuming he spoke with Vander’s peeps
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once again geeko, wrong take-doc ain't cheering anything. just stating a real observation from the outside looking in with some real knowledge. some of you here beat on the messengers with accurate takes ya hate but cheer on those who are wrong but love the same flavor ice cream. no room for brain freeze here dude.
The hypocrisy is thick in this post
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Bryan, until you've got your 8 miles of walking in this morning, you've got nothing worthwhile to say, hey?
Nah, I just think it's awfully interesting the 'told ya so' birds that crow endlessly when they catch a lucky take, but when they're wrong they just walk away and never bring it up.
And then going further and pretending like anyone knows WHY Justin wasn't drafted is even more ridiculous. Skipping 5 on 5s? Sure, you old farts can talk up and down about it mattering, but it didn't. There is two seasons of tape on Justin. Mirror that with guys that are chosen from Europe who are barely scouted at all. Reconcile that logic for me, please. A couple of 5 on 5 pick up games without serious coaching is more important than two years of tape, and measurables? Find me the NBA GM that would agree with you.
The fact of the matter is that the NBA drafts on POTENTIAL first, and body of work second. These scouts KNOW they can get guys like Justin after the draft so why not take a flyer on a Euro kid who has the POTENTIAL (usually unknown) to be a star in a season or two? There are a ton of Monday morning QBs who have their own (misguided) beliefs about why Justin wasn't drafted who threw a dart and predicted he wouldn't be. Congrats, you guys were right, but your reasoning as to why he wasn't picked is absolutely faulty.
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once again geeko, wrong take-doc ain't cheering anything. just stating a real observation from the outside looking in with some real knowledge. some of you here beat on the messengers with accurate takes ya hate but cheer on those who are wrong but love the same flavor ice cream. no room for brain freeze here dude.
You still eating that horse paste and knocking down drugs not prescribed by a medical professional?
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When the other NBA teams started drafting the European players in the closing of round 2, with the analysts stating for each one, "This is a sign and stash away pick", I knew Justin was not getting drafted. For him to drop like twenty picks from the mock drafts, no one on this board knows why. I still believe it was his lack of ball handling skills/dribbling, but maybe he bombed the interviews, again no one here knows.
The good news for Justin is that Chicago had one draft pick and it was a point guard. There are some players on the Bulls roster who will definitely be more worthy of a roster spot, but who knows. I am sure Justin will play in the summer league and you can watch and observe how he plays.
On other MU players:
Markus probably gone from Denver. Over the last year Denver drafted and traded for numerous guards with his playing time being nothing. Believe his two way contract is over.
Juan in same positioning GS as Markus. Once Klay and Porter returned, he hardly played and GS has more picks last night. His contract is also up. GS has some free agent payroll issues, maybe he gets lower salary, but don't see GS signing him to be a bench cheerleader.
Theo John got an invite for Summer League with Minnesota.
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Bulls are a good spot for him. Shaka and Billy are tight, are they not?
Yes they are definitely close. Shaka brought the team down for a workout at the Bulls practice facility this year, and Billy addressed the team...assuming he was able to interact with Justin for a period of time at that practice. IMO, this was the best possible outcome for Justin after not getting selected.
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At the end of the day, we’ll all be cheering Justin on to have a long and successful career. This, we can all agree on
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No river needed. I hear Puerto Rico has an abundance of swamps, aina?
Old man triggered
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And then going further and pretending like anyone knows WHY Justin wasn't drafted is even more ridiculous. Skipping 5 on 5s? Sure, you old farts can talk up and down about it mattering, but it didn't. There is two seasons of tape on Justin. Mirror that with guys that are chosen from Europe who are barely scouted at all. Reconcile that logic for me, please. A couple of 5 on 5 pick up games without serious coaching is more important than two years of tape, and measurables? Find me the NBA GM that would agree with you.
This is exactly it. Hysterical that there are people here saying Justin made a mistake by not playing and what horrible advice he must've got to skip out on the scrimmages. Teams aren't changing their opinion of you in a material way based on pick up games for a couple hours. It might be the tiebreaker if a team is absolutely stumped between two players, but teams aren't going to ignore the tape they've watched on actual games, the discussions they've had with people around the kid, the interviews they've done with the kid, etc.
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This is exactly it. Hysterical that there are people here saying Justin made a mistake by not playing and what horrible advice he must've got to skip out on the scrimmages. Teams aren't changing their opinion of you in a material way based on pick up games for a couple hours. It might be the tiebreaker if a team is absolutely stumped between two players, but teams aren't going to ignore the tape they've watched on actual games, the discussions they've had with people around the kid, the interviews they've done with the kid, etc.
I don’t think it’s that controversial to say the mid second round projection player with the knock he may not always be fully engaged probably shouldn’t have skipped a valuable portion of his job interview.
I’m by no means saying he made the wrong decision to leave mu, but opting out when he did didn’t help his cause.
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I don’t think it’s that controversial to say the mid second round projection player with the knock he may not always be fully engaged probably shouldn’t have skipped a valuable portion of his job interview.
I’m by no means saying he made the wrong decision to leave mu, but opting out when he did didn’t help his cause.
I agree. It was a chance to show he’s taken feedback and applied it to his game. Or that some of the criticisms weren’t valid.
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This is exactly it. Hysterical that there are people here saying Justin made a mistake by not playing and what horrible advice he must've got to skip out on the scrimmages. Teams aren't changing their opinion of you in a material way based on pick up games for a couple hours. It might be the tiebreaker if a team is absolutely stumped between two players, but teams aren't going to ignore the tape they've watched on actual games, the discussions they've had with people around the kid, the interviews they've done with the kid, etc.
Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard sure seemed to help themselves by scrimmaging. They went 12 and 31.
No guarantee scrimmaging helps Justin's draft stock, but it sure couldn't have hurt.
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No surprise at all. Y'all can never see the elephant in the room and are always cock sure of your near sighted opinions.
Ultimate green weenie and definitely got a "guarantee," aina?
Hindsight 20/20 etc.
Where's your pre-draft post about said elephant?
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Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard sure seemed to help themselves by scrimmaging. They went 12 and 31.
No guarantee scrimmaging helps Justin's draft stock, but it sure couldn't have hurt.
And by all accounts Scotty Pippen, Jr., Terquavion Smith, Trevion Williams, Dereon Seabron, Michael Foster, Kenneth Lofton, Jr., and John Butler were other scrimmage standouts. None of these guys were drafted.
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Maybe Lewis is happy with a two-way*. Had he scrimmaged and been disinterested, probably wouldn't have gotten that, aina?
three-way sounds better, hey?
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The hypocrisy is thick in this post
What else is new?
And his fellow tooth-puller with "some real knowledge" is the same guy who repeatedly demanded that the Bucks trade Giannis' azz midway through their championship season and said Milwaukee had no chance in the playoffs because they were a bunch of "smoes."
Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard sure seemed to help themselves by scrimmaging. They went 12 and 31.
No guarantee scrimmaging helps Justin's draft stock, but it sure couldn't have hurt.
This is reasonable. I remain surprised that Justin didn't take part in the combine's live action without a solid guarantee from any teams (which it's now obvious he didn't have).
On a related note ...
Tough night for Big East players. Tyrese Martin was the only guy drafted, and that was late.
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You are alll really worked up over a scrimmage that about 10 total drafted players played in.
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Hindsight 20/20 etc.
Where's your pre-draft post about said elephant?
C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?
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And by all accounts Scotty Pippen, Jr., Terquavion Smith, Trevion Williams, Dereon Seabron, Michael Foster, Kenneth Lofton, Jr., and John Butler were other scrimmage standouts. None of these guys were drafted.
Their performances have no bearing on how nba execs view Lewis’ intangibles.
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Nah, I just think it's awfully interesting the 'told ya so' birds that crow endlessly when they catch a lucky take, but when they're wrong they just walk away and never bring it up.
And then going further and pretending like anyone knows WHY Justin wasn't drafted is even more ridiculous. Skipping 5 on 5s? Sure, you old farts can talk up and down about it mattering, but it didn't. There is two seasons of tape on Justin. Mirror that with guys that are chosen from Europe who are barely scouted at all. Reconcile that logic for me, please. A couple of 5 on 5 pick up games without serious coaching is more important than two years of tape, and measurables? Find me the NBA GM that would agree with you.
The fact of the matter is that the NBA drafts on POTENTIAL first, and body of work second. These scouts KNOW they can get guys like Justin after the draft so why not take a flyer on a Euro kid who has the POTENTIAL (usually unknown) to be a star in a season or two? There are a ton of Monday morning QBs who have their own (misguided) beliefs about why Justin wasn't drafted who threw a dart and predicted he wouldn't be. Congrats, you guys were right, but your reasoning as to why he wasn't picked is absolutely faulty.
Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?
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I feel badly for Lewis but cannot say I am surprised. Biggest take away for me, he had a major jump in play from first to second year at MU and hoping we similar improvements from one of two guys on the roster. Wish him well and looking forward to the upcoming MU season.
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C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?
Peyton Watson, JD Davison, and Max Christie all "left the Combine" and got drafted. Teams aren't passing up on a kid who they think is talented enough to draft because he skipped some pickup basketball.
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Peyton Watson, JD Davison, and Max Christie all "left the Combine" and got drafted. Teams aren't passing up on a kid who they think is talented enough to draft because he skipped some pickup basketball.
They might have had guarantees from teams. Thats why I am interested in the details. Did a team reneg? Did his agent screw the pooch, Did he have an injury?
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Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?
European players and the 'draft and stash' strategy has been fully baked into every mock draft for 20+ years. The 'experts' just got it wrong. I feel bad for Justin; he can make it happen but the odds are very long.
Well, on to 2022-23.
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This is reasonable. I remain surprised that Justin didn't take part in the combine's live action without a solid guarantee from any teams (which it's now obvious he didn't have).
On a related note ...
Tough night for Big East players. Tyrese Martin was the only guy drafted, and that was late.
It isn't reasonable, its cherry picked data.
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FFS. No one is happy about this.
100% correct. But to Mike, that doesn’t matter.
Attacking other’s accurate criticisms as “hatred” and their realism as “pessimism” is a clever way for the wrong headed to feel better about themselves. Self delusion is big here.
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Agreed on everything you said about Lewis. But why are you stuck in 1991 thinking Europe is some unknown land?
That's a fair criticism. I should have said they're scouted, but the competition is less consistent and therefore more difficult to judge at least for younger players.
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I cannot speak for Double Dribble, but I definitely do not think Justin's body language or appearing to take plays off helped his cause. I would say his good definitely outweighed his bad by a wide margin last season and helped make for an exciting season. That said, there were plenty of times I was very frustrated with him appearing disinterested or playing hero ball. Bottomline for me, I am glad he played for MU, wish him a lot of luck and will remember him for having a very good second year at MU.
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I beleive that he did get a guarantee. That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program. And he was. Mission accomplished, Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world.
The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc. The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school. College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out. It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).
I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.
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C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?
I agree with this analysis
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I beleive that he did get a guarantee. That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program. And he was. Mission accomplished, Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world.
The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc. The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school. College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out. It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).
I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.
This is really all that matters. Of course you want to hear your name called, but getting a two-way was always a realistic outcome for Lewis last night. And I totally understand why a kid would want to develop his game in a professional org while getting paid and not having to deal with school. I also totally understand why a kid would want to stay in school and keep developing. There's no right or wrong way to do it.
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I beleive that he did get a guarantee. That guarantee is he would be brought into someone's program. And he was. Mission accomplished, Half the 2nd round will sign 2 ways. This is not the end of the world.
The conventional wisdom is you’re better off being in someone’s program (Bulls Two Way) than playing in college. There’s no limit on coaching contact, court time, etc. The minute you show NBA potential the “responsible” move is to get out of college and get in to the NBA ecosystem. Scouts / GMs are convinced that Justin in the Bulls ecosystem is much better for him than playing for Shaka and going to school. College is for guys who want to play overseas basketball after their eligibility runs out. It is not a place for NBA potential (save for your freshman year).
I don’t necessarily agree but that's the accepted school of thought in NBA front offices.
A solid take. This is how the business works.
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What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted. It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks. Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high. That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.
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What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted. It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks. Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high. That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.
One year does not a trend make.
https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-East-Conference/59/nba-draft
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What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted. It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks. Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high. That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.
Think the new coaching hires change this pattern.
I’ll say this, there are programs here that will follow the develop players model like PU and seemingly Marquette now. It’s not the worst way to have steady programs. May limit the ceiling.
Also, Nova injuries probably should be part of the equation as well
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I cannot speak for Double Dribble, but I definitely do not think Justin's body language or appearing to take plays off helped his cause. I would say his good definitely outweighed his bad by a wide margin last season and helped make for an exciting season. That said, there were plenty of times I was very frustrated with him appearing disinterested or playing hero ball. Bottomline for me, I am glad he played for MU, wish him a lot of luck and will remember him for having a very good second year at MU.
Nevertheless, Shaka -- a guy you consider a wonderful coach in every respect -- never once sat him for those transgressions.
Shaka benched Morsell a few times even though we didn't have another player who could score from the spots Morsell consistently did or defend like Morsell did. Shaka benched Kolek even though we didn't have another player who could run the team like Kolek did. Shaka regularly benched Kuath even though we didn't have another player who could protect the rim like Kuath did. Shaka yanked Kam and Elliott out of games even though they were our only two shooters. Shaka benched O-Max even though O-Max often was our most energetic, athletic player and a willing defender.
But Shaka never benched Justin because of poor body language, lack of interest or laziness. What was stoopid Shaka missing that was so obvious to so many Scoopers?
Either Shaka isn't as good a coach as you and I think he is because he's unable to recognize this obvious "lack of interest." Or maybe Shaka gave Lewis the same kind of "preferential star treatment" that so many here criticized Wojo for re Markus. Or maybe Lewis wasn't lazy or disinterested; maybe, like pretty much every other player in basketball history, he'd occasionally get frustrated for a second if he missed a shot or made a bad pass.
Yes, a few "experts" on a few websites said Lewis looked disinterested at times. Nevertheless, many of those exact same experts predicted that Lewis would be drafted. So were they "good" experts on the disinterested angle but "bad" experts on the draft angle?
Bottom line, I'm glad you will have mostly fond memories of Justin's time at Marquette. Me too. Last season would have been an unmitigated basketball disaster without him.
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C'mon man, I'm the dude y'all lost your chit for 3 pages after calling out Lewis for being lazy, taking plays off, and generally disinterested at times. Leaving the Combine for an alleged "guarantee" was the kiss of death. Poor judgment and/or advice. No organization, sports or otherwise, needs an employee like that. #10 has a second chance to mend his ways. Let's see if he's learned. Regardless, has cost him lotsa shekels, hey?
It may have been a good call that there was a perception that he took plays off or was lazy and that would hurt his draft status. How much that hurt him getting drafted we will never know.
The take that MU would be better off without him next year was the silly take. Another year of development in a young player who was all Big East would have been outstanding to have around. I don’t see and never did see a logical argument for that reasoning. We don’t sniff the tournament without him last year and with him this coming year would be a lock for the NCAA again.
Hopefully, Justin makes it with the Bulls. I believe he is a great fit for that roster. I believe 19 year-olds also mature as they get older and if he has the right mindset going forward he will make it in the NBA. The physical tools are there.
Good luck to Justin. Go MU!
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The wonderful coach sat him at UNC game and post-game presser. Seriously, what is your point? He was the best player on the team last year and he took plays off and had bad body language from time to time. Why can't both be true?
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What could be considered an alarming trend for not only Marquette, but the Big East, is that only one BE player was drafted last night (Tyrese Martin, #51). Julian Champagnie and Aminu Mohammed both also left early (like Justin) and went undrafted. It's the second time in three years that the Big East did not have any first round draft picks. Despite the overall success of the Big East, for various reasons, the programs are simply not attracting/recruiting NBA-level talent that is worthy of being drafted high. That could be something to monitor in the coming seasons ahead.
Well that should change next year. Numerous posters here have stated O-Max will be drafted and will be a better player than Justin was.
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The wonderful coach sat him at UNC game and post-game presser. Seriously, what is your point? He was the best player on the team last year and he took plays off and had bad body language from time to time. Why can't both be true?
I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn’t lazy, and didn’t bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.
We Are Marquette!
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Well that should change next year. Numerous posters here have stated O-Max will be drafted and will be a better player than Justin was.
If O-Max ever hesitates out of frustration for even half a second after missing a shot or committing a turnover, some of the same O-Max fans will be calling him lazy.
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I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn’t lazy, and didn’t bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.
Take a break.
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Not that it matters, but I would say I noticed Lewis being lazy maybe 10-15 times +/- a few. The first Creighton game it was mentioned 2-4 by the announcer and it was obvious to anyone that is being honest, IMO. Now, if you never noticed it or think it was no big deal, I am fine with that. Not going to argue or point out why the coach is stupid, lazy or any other craziness you can think of. Always an extreme with you these days.
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I don't know what the right adjective is, but I certainly saw Justin get frustrated at the end of the team's unconscious streak/beginning of the mediocre part of the big east schedule. He was getting position unchallenged before the BEast coaches changed how they guarded him. The change was effective and he couldnt back people down as easily and the three was more contested.
The UCONN game in particular was one where he was visibly frustrated and it seemed to impact his performance. If i recall correctly, that was on the just after the VU game in philly where he had maybe his best performance of the season.
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I guess Shaka was just dumb leaving Lewis in those dozens - or was it hundreds - of times that Justin was disinterested. Maybe the coach was disinterested too? Or maybe he actually was very interested in winning, knew Lewis wasn’t lazy, and didn’t bench him as he repeatedly had benched others.
We Are Marquette!
Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.
I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.
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I never once thought Justin was lazy. I saw him frustrated, but never thought 'lazy'.
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I never once thought Justin was lazy. I saw him frustrated, but never thought 'lazy'.
Yes, like I mentioned before it started to happen more and more once MU was figured out by coaches, and he became the focus of team defenses.
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https://theathletic.com/3373289/2022/06/24/justin-lewis-nba-draft/?source=user_shared_article
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Bulls fans seem to be digging this pickup. I agree with them.
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Bulls fans seem to be digging this pickup. I agree with them.
Hope they’re right. Marquette has a pretty good history of players outperforming their scouting reports.
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The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.
I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.
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If O-Max ever hesitates out of frustration for even half a second after missing a shot or committing a turnover, some of the same O-Max fans will be calling him lazy.
did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down. let go and let...umm, let...nevermind
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The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.
I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.
There may have been a guarantee, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Shaka Donovan friendship. It would have to do with JL's talent.
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did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down. let go and let...umm, let...nevermind
Lazy post, no upper case to begin paragraph, missing question mark, and very lazy paragraph conclusion. Lazy, lazy and uninterested body language throughout the paragraph, sad!
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Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.
I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.
Very well said and explained. Shaka talks about mental toughness and maturity and athleticism etc., and that they don’t all arrive for most kids at the same time. Have to grow and learn. Heck, I’d guess they all arrive for very very few players on a consistent basis, day in and day out, or all game long.
as you relate it to the rest of us, I wonder how many of us could us maintained focus in a classroom non-stop for 50 or 90 minutes. I’d guess none of us. Would take a lot of effort and time learning how to, and even then there would be better days than others. Maintaining constant intensity is pretty darn hard in anything we do mental or physical. Combine them and it is basically impossible. Throw in some frustration and people working just as hard against you to stop you, and good luck.
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Shaka wasn't dumb. He's like every other coach in the country, the star player gets more leash than the other players on the team. A star player doesn't give his full attention or intensity on a possession, he stays in the game. A bench player does the same things and he gets the hook. A star having a bad night is often still better than a bench player having a good night, it's just common sense.
I do think calling Justin lazy is well lazy. Part of basketball is mental toughness. The ability to keep up focus and attention though ~140 possessions of basketball is not a natural skill that every player has. It's something that needs to be developed, just like any other basketball skill. A lot of young players struggle with this, like a lot of young (and even older people too!) people struggle with it in the classroom or the workplace. I think that was a legitimate concern with Lewis last season. Doesn't mean he's lazy or doesn't care, just that it is a weak point of his game right now and he needs to work on it.
That's fair. The only thing I'd point out is that Shaka did bench Morsell (arguably his other "star") several times. And he even benched his only point guard; IIRC many Scoopers weren't thrilled with that. But as usual, a very reasonable observation, TAMU.
did one of your grand kids hack your computer or is your blood sugar running a little high-geez, any argument or disagreement is met with comments you load up to just try to shut people down. let go and let...umm, let...nevermind
We all need lessons on posting etiquette from a guy who regularly quotes Tucker Carlson on the conspiracy theory du jour.
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Not that it matters, but I would say I noticed Lewis being lazy maybe 10-15 times +/- a few. The first Creighton game it was mentioned 2-4 by the announcer and it was obvious to anyone that is being honest, IMO. Now, if you never noticed it or think it was no big deal, I am fine with that. Not going to argue or point out why the coach is stupid, lazy or any other craziness you can think of. Always an extreme with you these days.
There was nothing extreme about my post. Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree on this subject. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
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Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.
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The last Marquette guy that started out with the Bulls did alright.
I am starting to think the two-way from the Bulls was the guarantee. Donovan is tight with Shaka and the Bulls didn't have a second round pick. Tell JL if you fall, we'll give you a shot and Chicago ends up with a guy all the scouts had as a 40-50 talent. It's not ideal, but it certainly could be worse for him. And no guarantee his stock improves if he comes back. For every Ochai Agbaji, there's two Max Abmus and Johnny Juzangs.
Forgot about Juzang. Probably would have been a first rounder if he left last year.
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Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.
I thought he often had terrible body language that made him seem disinterested. Lazy? I wouldn’t say lazy but there are definitely higher motor guys than him.
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Did any of us here think Lewis was a lazy player? I did not.
No, but his defensive footspeed is slightly slow so he'll get stuck with this label.
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https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/
Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.
I'm curious. On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"? How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?
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https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/
Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.
I'm curious. On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"? How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?
That was another player I thought of. Injury concerns, horribly underperformed at a low level of basketball, stock supposedly plummeting, terrible Combine measurable, and I think *gasp* even sat out scrimmages. Yet he was a first round pick.
Listen, if Justin was a first round talent and his body language was bad, he’d have been a first round pick. Teams believe in their ability to get the best out of players. It’s not like it was a discipline or legal issue if his biggest knock is bad body language. The fact of the matter is he was a mid second round to undrafted talent and a bunch of international guys were stashed ahead of him.
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https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/
Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.
I'm curious. On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"? How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?
For the past 3-4 years, PBJ was considered safely one of the five best players in his class, and was at one point ranked #1. If you're Golden State, is it that big of a risk rolling the dice on a guy who a year ago would've been a no doubt lottery pick? Sure, there are concerns, but taking a risk on someone who the talent consensus was "potentially the best of all these guys" at his peak is different than someone whose highest consensus was early to mid second round.
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https://theathletic.com/3381724/2022/06/24/nba-draft-2022-surprises-value-picks/
Vecenie had Justin as his top player not drafted.
I'm curious. On the people that believe he dropped because of body language or "laziness"? How do you explain PBJ getting drafted in the first round?
I watched the whole draft. It seemed to me once you go past the first 45 picks teams were more interested in drafting young foreign players than they were in drafting college players.
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I watched the whole draft. It seemed to me once you go past the first 45 picks teams were more interested in drafting young foreign players than they were in drafting college players.
Stash them, let them develop aboard for free. Maybe they come over, maybe not. No risk, high reward.
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12 Upperclassmen were selected out of 58 picks
8 Juniors
4 Seniors
Compare that to 31 underclssmen
11 Sophomores
20 Freshmen
IMO, this is why Justin left. Being a college upperclassmen is not the profile of a true NBA prospect.
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12 Upperclassmen were selected out of 58 picks
8 Juniors
4 Seniors
Compare that to 31 underclssmen
11 Sophomores
20 Freshmen
IMO, this is why Justin left. Being a college upperclassmen is not the profile of a true NBA prospect.
I think you have the cause and effect mixed up.
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Without doing any research I have to assume Marquette is toward the top (if not leading) in the amount of four year college guys in the NBA in recent years.
Diener, Novak, Matthews, McNeal, Butler, Crowder, Johnson-Odom, Buycks, Anderson, Wilson, Burton, Howard, Hauser
Some of those are just a cup a coffee but they still made it!
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I think you have the cause and effect mixed up.
I thinkn its becoming exceedingly clear that as soon as you're ID'd as a NBA prospect the right move is to get out of college and get into the NBA ecosystem. Playing as an upperclassmen in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential.
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I thinkn its becoming exceedingly clear that as soon as you're ID'd as a NBA prospect the right move is to get out of college and get into the NBA ecosystem. Playing as an upperclassmen in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential.
I think you are right. However, a player needs to be realistic about their NBA prospects. Lewis did not get drafted and he probably would not have gotten drafted next year or the year after if he stayed in college.
Were there any players who pulled out of lasts draft, who ended up getting drafted this year? Generally, coming back to college is not going to improve your draft status. Players need to decide, if in the long run, a college degree is more important than doing something else, if they are not going to get drafted. It should be easier to decide to stay in college with the NIL.
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Were there any players who pulled out of lasts draft, who ended up getting drafted this year?
All of these players were eligible for last year's draft but came back for another year of college and got drafted. The bolded I believe are the only two who declared last season, withdrew/returned to school, and got drafted this year.
Round 1, Pick 4: Keegan Murray
Round 1, Pick 5: Jaden Ivey
Round 1, Pick 6: Bennedict Mathurin
Round 1, Pick 10: Johnny Davis
Round 1, Pick 12: Jalen Williams
Round 1, Pick 14: Ochai Agbaji
Round 1, Pick 15: Mark Williams
Round 1, Pick 17: Tari Eason
Round 1, Pick 18: Dalen Terry
Round 1, Pick 19: Jake LaRavia
Round 1, Pick 20: Christian Braun
Round 1, Pick 22: Walker Kessler
Round 1, Pick 23: David Roddy
Round 1, Pick 26: Wendell Moore Jr
Round 2, Pick 31: Andrew Nembhard
Round 2, Pick 33: Christian Koloko
Round 2, Pick 34: Jaylin Williams
Round 2, Pick 41: EJ Liddell
Round 2, Pick 44: Ryan Rollins
Round 2, Pick 47: Vince Williams Jr
Round 2, Pick 49: Isaiah Mobley
Round 2, Pick 51: Tyrese Martin
Round 2, Pick 57: Jabari Walker
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All of these players were eligible for last year's draft but came back for another year of college and got drafted. The bolded I believe are the only two who declared last season, withdrew/returned to school, and got drafted this year.
Round 1, Pick 4: Keegan Murray
Round 1, Pick 5: Jaden Ivey
Round 1, Pick 6: Bennedict Mathurin
Round 1, Pick 10: Johnny Davis
Round 1, Pick 12: Jalen Williams
Round 1, Pick 14: Ochai Agbaji
Round 1, Pick 15: Mark Williams
Round 1, Pick 17: Tari Eason
Round 1, Pick 18: Dalen Terry
Round 1, Pick 19: Jake LaRavia
Round 1, Pick 20: Christian Braun
Round 1, Pick 22: Walker Kessler
Round 1, Pick 23: David Roddy
Round 1, Pick 26: Wendell Moore Jr
Round 2, Pick 31: Andrew Nembhard
Round 2, Pick 33: Christian Koloko
Round 2, Pick 34: Jaylin Williams
Round 2, Pick 41: EJ Liddell
Round 2, Pick 44: Ryan Rollins
Round 2, Pick 47: Vince Williams Jr
Round 2, Pick 49: Isaiah Mobley
Round 2, Pick 51: Tyrese Martin
Round 2, Pick 57: Jabari Walker
Thanks for putting this analysis together .
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Without doing any research I have to assume Marquette is toward the top (if not leading) in the amount of four year college guys in the NBA in recent years.
Diener, Novak, Matthews, McNeal, Butler, Crowder, Johnson-Odom, Buycks, Anderson, Wilson, Burton, Howard, Hauser
Some of those are just a cup a coffee but they still made it!
Add Lazar, Vander and Henry...although Hauser and Burton may be deletes based on their feedback. Of the recruits: Crean with six including Wade. Buzz with eight (4 JUCOs). Wojo with three (waiting on Lewis and Garcia).
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Add Lazar, Vander and Henry...although Hauser and Burton may be deletes based on their feedback. Of the recruits: Crean with six including Wade. Buzz with eight (4 JUCOs). Wojo with three (waiting on Lewis and Garcia).
Oops I forgot Lazar. I didn't include Vander and Henry because they weren't four year college players.
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I thinkn its becoming exceedingly clear that as soon as you're ID'd as a NBA prospect the right move is to get out of college and get into the NBA ecosystem. Playing as an upperclassmen in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential.
i realize there are always going to be exceptions-enter drew timme, gonzaga, withdrew from NBA draft and is returning for his senior season.
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i realize there are always going to be exceptions-enter drew timme, gonzaga, withdrew from NBA draft and is returning for his senior season.
Timme isn't an exception. Lens said "Playing as an upperclassman in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential." Timme is a great college player, but he's not someone who will leave a mark on the NBA. We're seeing a stark divide between the qualities that make an All-American big in college and someone that can't sniff an NBA roster. Guys like Timme, Tshiebwe, Cockburn, all great, truly great, college players, but don't project into today's NBA.
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For all of those that think players should stay ion school, Patrick Baldwin was drafted 1 week ago and said he's already benefiting from a NBA training staff.
"I think I just learned how to take care of my body a lot more while I was here already," Baldwin said. "I thought I took care of it great before here. But now that I've stepped into this environment, they're giving me stuff to do before practice, after practice. Stuff while I'm just laying around at the hotel.
"I'm learning how to take care of my body and use all the resources to make sure I'm putting my best foot forward every time I step onto the floor."
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Timme isn't an exception. Lens said "Playing as an upperclassman in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential." Timme is a great college player, but he's not someone who will leave a mark on the NBA. We're seeing a stark divide between the qualities that make an All-American big in college and someone that can't sniff an NBA roster. Guys like Timme, Tshiebwe, Cockburn, all great, truly great, college players, but don't project into today's NBA.
Exactly. Duke-UNC is a perfect example. One roster was built for college, one was built for the pros.
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For all of those that think players should stay ion school, Patrick Baldwin was drafted 1 week ago and said he's already benefiting from a NBA training staff.
"I think I just learned how to take care of my body a lot more while I was here already," Baldwin said. "I thought I took care of it great before here. But now that I've stepped into this environment, they're giving me stuff to do before practice, after practice. Stuff while I'm just laying around at the hotel.
"I'm learning how to take care of my body and use all the resources to make sure I'm putting my best foot forward every time I step onto the floor."
UWM doesn’t have top level training? I don’t believe it.
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-rookie-justin-lewis-suffers-potentially-serious-knee-injury
Terrible luck for Justin as he is feared to have torn his ACL participating in a workout away from the team
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Ugh. What a nightmare.
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-rookie-justin-lewis-suffers-potentially-serious-knee-injury
Terrible luck for Justin as he is feared to have torn his ACL participating in a workout away from the team
That’s awful
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Ughhhh
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brutal. could be the diffrence between nba and eurrope
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Man, this makes me sick to my stomach.
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Ugh, brutal news for JLew. Hopefully it's not as serious as they fear.
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Timme isn't an exception. Lens said "Playing as an upperclassman in college is for guys who do not have NBA potential." Timme is a great college player, but he's not someone who will leave a mark on the NBA. We're seeing a stark divide between the qualities that make an All-American big in college and someone that can't sniff an NBA roster. Guys like Timme, Tshiebwe, Cockburn, all great, truly great, college players, but don't project into today's NBA.
Markus Howard, a’ina?
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Markus Howard, a’ina?
One of the greatest players in Marquette history
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Markus Howard, a’ina?
yep
One of the greatest players in Marquette history
yep
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-rookie-justin-lewis-suffers-potentially-serious-knee-injury
Terrible luck for Justin as he is feared to have torn his ACL participating in a workout away from the team
Sad to hear about this. Hoping for a full recovery.
Here was what I could find on the interwebs about guys who get hurt while on two-way contracts. It's from 2017, so I don't know if it's been updated at all.
The player can rehab with their NBA club and it’s medical staff, and as long as they don’t participate in team activities (film study, practice, etc.) then these days do not count towards their 45-day maximum.
Teams have some flexibility here. Depending on how long the player will be out, the team may choose to count their days toward the 45-day max, so that player reaches the maximum earning potential of their deal. If the player is out only a partial part of the season, then they may opt to save those 45 days for when the player is healthy and can contribute to the NBA club in some capacity. There is a ton of gray here.
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Good thing he gowne
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This really sucks for him.
Having said that, I'm kind of relieved that he's moved on and we weren't counting on him this season. Imagine how we would all feel if he came back to school for another year and we were expecting big things from JLew, then getting this news today.
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This really sucks for him.
Having said that, I'm kind of relieved that he's moved on and we weren't counting on him this season. Imagine how we would all feel if he came back to school for another year and we were expecting big things from JLew, then getting this news today.
Was his injury predestined or something?
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Devastating. Justin is a good kid and had a bright future.
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Devastating. Justin is a good kid and had a bright future.
Still has one. This isnt 1975. Peoppe.fully recover from ACL injuries now.
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Still has one. This isnt 1975. Peoppe.fully recover from ACL injuries now.
And he’s still young. However, it puts him behind in development and other younger players will be fighting for spots when he’s back. I wish him well and am pulling for him but I think the odds are now long he plays in the NBA
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Sad to hear about this. Hoping for a full recovery.
Here was what I could find on the interwebs about guys who get hurt while on two-way contracts. It's from 2017, so I don't know if it's been updated at all.
The player can rehab with their NBA club and it’s medical staff, and as long as they don’t participate in team activities (film study, practice, etc.) then these days do not count towards their 45-day maximum.
Teams have some flexibility here. Depending on how long the player will be out, the team may choose to count their days toward the 45-day max, so that player reaches the maximum earning potential of their deal. If the player is out only a partial part of the season, then they may opt to save those 45 days for when the player is healthy and can contribute to the NBA club in some capacity. There is a ton of gray here.
Thanks for providing that. I was curious how that would be handled. Based on that, at least he will have access to great doctors and hopefully will be able to hit the ground running next year with the Bulls.
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Still has one. This isnt 1975. Peoppe.fully recover from ACL injuries now.
There's no way you can't say this isn't a pretty big blow to his NBA career assuming the severity is accurate.
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Thanks for providing that. I was curious how that would be handled. Based on that, at least he will have access to great doctors and hopefully will be able to hit the ground running next year with the Bulls.
His only issue is that it is probably a whole year for recovery and the Bulls will have the 2023 draft for additional players he would be fighting with for a spot, like a two way a year from now. Going tp be a tough road ahead, wish him the best in rehab.
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His only issue is that it is probably a whole year for recovery and the Bulls will have the 2023 draft for additional players he would be fighting with for a spot, like a two way a year from now. Going tp be a tough road ahead, wish him the best in rehab.
For sure. As an undrafted Free Agent, going to a team that didn’t pick anyone in the second round was as good of a situation as any.
This definitely makes the road to sticking in the NBA tougher. Hopefully he can come back strong and secure a spot.
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Good luck. Heal quickly.
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This really sucks for him.
Having said that, I'm kind of relieved that he's moved on and we weren't counting on him this season. Imagine how we would all feel if he came back to school for another year and we were expecting big things from JLew, then getting this news today.
Except hes not required by the ACL gods to tear his ACL regardless of what his decision for basketball this year was.
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I wish him well and am pulling for him but I think the odds are now long he plays in the NBA
+1
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Except hes not required by the ACL gods to tear his ACL regardless of what his decision for basketball this year was.
Or maybe he was. I wish I knew how the "ACL gods" worked.
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Gives him additional time to work on his attitude. (Bad break for him. Sorry to hear.)
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Thanks for providing that. I was curious how that would be handled. Based on that, at least he will have access to great doctors and hopefully will be able to hit the ground running next year with the Bulls.
It’s bad info
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This really sucks for him.
Having said that, I'm kind of relieved that he's moved on and we weren't counting on him this season. Imagine how we would all feel if he came back to school for another year and we were expecting big things from JLew, then getting this news today.
Or, hear me out, you were Justin and got this news while staying back another year.
I will never bash on a kid who is leaving early to make money. If you are talented enough to get any contract in the league, it's too risky to stay another year in college IMO
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It’s bad info
As I clearly said, it was from 2017 and I didn't know if it had been updated.
We'd all welcome "good info" from you. Thanks in advance.
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Or, hear me out, you were Justin and got this news while staying back another year.
I will never bash on a kid who is leaving early to make money. If you are talented enough to get any contract in the league, it's too risky to stay another year in college IMO
he rolled the dice. Now Justin has nothing. Pro $? Nope. College scholly? Nope. Borderline 2nd rd pick after sophomore year, come back for one more college season and see if you can elevate your draft status. Now?
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he rolled the dice. Now Justin has nothing. Pro $? Nope. College scholly? Nope. Borderline 2nd rd pick after sophomore year, come back for one more college season and see if you can elevate your draft status. Now?
Justin scholarship is still valid. He can complete his degree if he wants.
I know he is probably not that about that right now. It would be a sound use of his time will in rehab.
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he rolled the dice. Now Justin has nothing. Pro $? Nope. College scholly? Nope. Borderline 2nd rd pick after sophomore year, come back for one more college season and see if you can elevate your draft status. Now?
He can come back to school for free anytime he wants
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And he will make "pro$."
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Now Justin has nothing. Untrue. Pro $? Nope. Incorrect. College scholly? Nope. Wrong. Borderline 2nd rd pick after sophomore year, come back for one more college season and see if you can elevate your draft status. Now? It's counterproductive to torture oneself with "what-ifs." Justin undoubtedly is already looking ahead.
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Justin scholarship is still valid. He can complete his degree if he wants.
I know he is probably not that about that right now. It would be a sound use of his time will in rehab.
so, even though he signed with an agent and signed a pro contract, the academic side of the scholarship is still valid?
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Justin looking ahead…so you spoke with him?
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so, even though he signed with an agent and signed a pro contract, the academic side of the scholarship is still valid?
It is a commitment that Marquette (and many other schools) have made.
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It is a commitment that Marquette (and many other schools) have made.
Not only that but I believe he would meet the criteria to have it required under NCAA rules if he came back within a decade.
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so, even though he signed with an agent and signed a pro contract, the academic side of the scholarship is still valid?
Yes academic scholarship not athletic. And it it is the MU way and other institutions do it. Nice perk, didn't you know some of those in the 70's teams did graduate with a scholarship years later.
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Yes academic scholarship not athletic. And it it is the MU way and other institutions do it. Nice perk, didn't you know some of those in the 70's teams did graduate with a scholarship years later.
thx. I knew players came back years later, but thought at that point (after turning pro) they were on their own.