I'm Optimistic

[Pakuni]

If you thought this turnaround was going to happen in 8 months since he was hired you have no idea how long rebuilds take. Prepare for a disappointing season with a really young roster. Brighter days are ahead, but not this season.

How long are the rebuilds at Iowa State, Cincinnati and Arizona taking?
I'm not complaining with where we're at, but let's not exaggerate the rebuilding process. We see quick turnarounds in college basketball every year.

[panda]

It didn't take much to see Jimmy B had a high BB IQ and talent level even when he wasn't a starter.  The dude always seemed to do the right thing for the right situation from the get go.

Mo I believe had similar accolades as Kolek when he transferred from Ball State.

David always had a nice three point shot and was a tough little defender.

Hey, I want to see this team succeed.   I just won't put on the rose tinted sunglasses.

Mo quit the team or maybe he was kicked off and then returned. Cubby barely could shoot for two years because of his shoulder. Jimmy was a solid contributor the year before on a great team.

You clearly mis remembering their perceived abilities prior to that season.

[MuggsyB]

Mo quit the team or maybe he was kicked off and then returned. Cubby barely could shoot for two years because of his shoulder. Jimmy was a solid contributor the year before on a great team.

You clearly mis remembering their perceived abilities prior to that season.

Correct.  But I'm not sure I see a team capable of drilling triples like that squad did.  That was one cool little team.

[panda]

Correct.  But I'm not sure I see a team capable of drilling triples like that squad did.  The was one cool little team.

The potential is there. It won't be the same, but I see the same scrappiness from this team.

[MuggsyB]

The potential is there. It won't be the same, but I see the same scrappiness from this team.

People may have forgotten  that Little Mo shot the trifecta at .495 that season.  But maybe if this group gets over the hump the confidence will grow.  They have shown resiliency in dire situations.

[MU82]

How long are the rebuilds at Iowa State, Cincinnati and Arizona taking?
I'm not complaining with where we're at, but let's not exaggerate the rebuilding process. We see quick turnarounds in college basketball every year.

I guess we got the wrong guy.

[Pakuni]

I guess we got the wrong guy.

Exactly what I said.

[Elonsmusk]

Exactly what I said.

Who do you think was the right guy?

[mug644]

I like this thread and hope it doesn't spin away.

I am also optimistic, seeing both the potential and growth of this squad. Shaka didn't have a full recruiting season to put together the team he'd like for this year, even with the free agent aura around transfers. He seems to have chosen to focus on defining his system (fast, quick 3s, press) even if his players are not yet suited to it all. That's his choice and I accept and support it.

I am also a passionate enough fan (and long time, graduated in '88) to get frustrated with how close we've been in these last two games. Opportunities to win were there, no doubt. I was pissed off that we didn't win either game, given the position we were in (albeit from behind in each).

I'm working to just enjoy, appreciating the evolution (Lewis playing inside, Joplin working for his shot, Omax slowing himself...) regardless of the results. (Easy to say, hard to do.)

I totally dig MU b-ball, and am enjoying this season, win or lose. Go MU!

[Pakuni]

Who do you think was the right guy?

I was - and am - cool with Shaka. He was my top choice behind Beilein, who probably wasn't a realistic option (but a guy can hope).
But that doesn't have anything to do with resisting the urge to set the bar so low around here that we've convinced ourselves that we can't win this year, or that that the season must be sacrificed on the altar of The ProcessTM. We know this isn't true, because first-year coaches step into tougher circumstances every season and win (see: Wes Miller, TJ Otzelberger).
I'm willing to bet that Shaka won't be satisfied with a 7th place conference finish, and isn't coming away from the last two games feeling like they were moral victories that are a requisite part of The ProcessTM. I'm guessing he's pissed about losing two winnable, resume-building games. Doesn't mean he won't try to make them teachable moments, or he's unaware of the team's shortcomings and inexperience. But I don't think he's nearly as accepting of the results.

[MU82]

Not setting the bar low, Pak. Of course I want to win, too. Just being realistic after seeing the limitations of our roster.

And of course Shaka wants to win ... but look at the quote in my tagline. He's also being realistic.

Should Shaka have recruited better for Year 1? Maybe; I don't know enough of the circumstances he faced with the players he pursued. If it was a failure on his part, is it a legitimate concern going forward -- that he can't recruit well enough for us compared to, say, Miller and Otzelberger? I guess we'll see.

I think we both know that it's not very common for a coach to take over a complete rebuild -- which is what he faced at Marquette -- and make the NCAAs in Year 1. Has it happened in college basketball history? Yes, albeit rarely. Are Miller and Otzelberger ahead of Shaka? Apparently so. Good for them and bad for us, I guess.

Maybe 3 or 5 or however many years from now, I'll feel like a dope for having bought into Shaka calling it "a drip-by-drip process."

[Viper]

I gotta say I'm not too optimistic right now. Yes, they fight hard, and that's good, but we have too many players who don't shoot very well and our defense isn't exactly great these days. We don't stack up very well against other Big East rosters so it will be tough to find a lot of BE wins this year.

I hope Shaka can work some magic on the recruiting front or transfer portal - otherwise this rebuild could take awhile.

MU hasn't won an ncaa tournament game since 2012. This is past rebuild. Rebuilding from what?

[Lennys Tap]

MU hasn't won an ncaa tournament game since 2012. This is past rebuild. Rebuilding from what?

Blame Buzz for 1 year (while remembering he won 7 NCAA tournament games the previous 3 years). Blame 6 years on Wojo and 1 on Covid. But inheriting a PROGRAM that has gone 8 years without an NCAA win and a TEAM that returned 0 starters buys the new guy a little time, no?

[GoldenEagles03]

Blame Buzz for 1 year (while remembering he won 7 NCAA tournament games the previous 3 years). Blame 6 years on Wojo and 1 on Covid. But inheriting a PROGRAM that has gone 8 years without an NCAA win and a TEAM that returned 0 starters buys the new guy a little time, no?

The Wojo Era results weren't horrible. They definitely weren't good, but it could have been worse.

Had it not been for COVID Markus Howard would have been to 3 NCAA Tournaments. The problem with the Wojo Era was that no team got better in the next year. '16-'17 season was his best work, but a lot of that team graduated, so it was kind of another rebuild within a rebuild.

Sandwiched in between the losing seasons in Wojo Year 1 and Wojos Final year were 5 fairly decent years. Not being able to win a Tournament Game while also seeing teams not get better was the nail in the coffin.

I am optimistic that Shaka can get improvement from year to year.

[NCMUFan]

Shaka deserves a fair shot of building a winning program
We are all hoping for that.
The camera shots of Shaka on the sidelines of displeasure seemed to hint that he had probably worked on things that weren't being executed properly during the game.
Hopefully that is the case, and the team gets it right in the future.

[rocky_warrior]

Blame Buzz for 1 year (while remembering he won 7 NCAA tournament games the previous 3 years). Blame 6 years on Wojo and 1 on Covid. But inheriting a PROGRAM that has gone 8 years without an NCAA win and a TEAM that returned 0 starters buys the new guy a little time, no?

You left out that the new guy went the previous 6 years without an NCAA win

[Mr. Nielsen]

MU hasn't won an ncaa tournament game since 2012.

2013

[mu_hilltopper]

You left out that the new guy went the previous 6 years without an NCAA win

3,192 days and counting.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

If you thought this turnaround was going to happen in 8 months since he was hired you have no idea how long rebuilds take. Prepare for a disappointing season with a really young roster. Brighter days are ahead, but not this season.

I have a pretty good idea how long rebuilds can take.  I just painfully watched one take 7 seasons under Wojo and never produce much of anything outside of 1 unbelievable offensive player in Markus Howard.  Who, by the way, made a large portion of the Wojo era at least incredibly entertaining to watch. 

Shaka was a big name hire.  I expected him to put together a more talented roster in year 1.  The entire landscape of college basketball was completely different than ever fore last offseason, and Shaka mostly flopped with respect to bringing in impact transfers.  We got a couple nice role players, but no truly impact players.  And it shows.  Yes -  I get the whole "culture building" crap, but I don't personally love the strategy when winning games is what really matters.  You can build culture all you want, but half these guys that have freshman eligibility won't be here in a few years anyway.  Build a team to win each season.  I hope he focuses more on that before next season. 

[Boozemon Barro]

I can't believe there are still fans that think we should be good. College basketball rebuilds take a minimum of 5 years, and even then, well if you have expectations of winning that's your fault. It seems like the players are having fun and that's all that really matters to me.

[Pakuni]

Shaka was a big name hire.  I expected him to put together a more talented roster in year 1.  The entire landscape of college basketball was completely different than ever fore last offseason, and Shaka mostly flopped with respect to bringing in impact transfers.  We got a couple nice role players, but no truly impact players.  And it shows.  Yes -  I get the whole "culture building" crap, but I don't personally love the strategy when winning games is what really matters.  You can build culture all you want, but half these guys that have freshman eligibility won't be here in a few years anyway.  Build a team to win each season.  I hope he focuses more on that before next season.

I would just say that winning vs building a culture is a false choice that we keep seeing here.
You can do both.
And I believe Shaka wants to do both. I don't buy the argument we keep seeing here that Shaka is OK with not winning (and we should be OK, too) because it's necessary for long-term success.

[panda]

I can't believe there are still fans that think we should be good. College basketball rebuilds take a minimum of 5 years, and even then, well if you have expectations of winning that's your fault. It seems like the players are having fun and that's all that really matters to me.

College rebuilds don't take 5 years, especially in this day and age.

[Scoop Snoop]

I can't believe there are still fans that think we should be good. College basketball rebuilds take a minimum of 5 years, and even then, well if you have expectations of winning that's your fault. It seems like the players are having fun and that's all that really matters to me.

Shaka was not hired to help players have fun. If winning was not the objective, we could have hired a coach for much, much less. OK, I'm obviously giving you a rough time on your post BUT- I think Marquette fans do expect us to be good, though this year it is understandable that we may well end up disappointed. Five years minimum for a rebuild and even then, we should have no expectations of winning? WOW!

Edit: If I misunderstood you, please explain. I'm honestly astounded by your post.

[Shooter McGavin]

College rebuilds don't take 5 years, especially in this day and age.

Panda,  I would bet that was a completely sarcastic post.  Especially the part about just being glad the players are having fun.

[Pakuni]

Shaka was not hired to help players have fun. If winning was not the objective, we could have hired a coach for much, much less. OK, I'm obviously giving you a rough time on your post BUT- I think Marquette fans do expect us to be good, though this year it is understandable that we may well end up disappointed. Five years minimum for a rebuild and even then, we should have no expectations of winning? WOW!

Edit: If I misunderstood you, please explain. I'm honestly astounded by your post.

Re-read it in teal.