2023 Team Outlook

[GoldenEagles03]

He had a year practicing with Darryl everyday and working with Todd Smith everyday. Unless you think the only experience come from actual game time, in which case I would be wondering what you think Keeyan was doing all last year.

Practicing against Darryl this past season isn't going to do much for Ellis in a season that starts 7 months from now. It's a nice thought but at the end of the day doesn't mean a whole lot.

Jones already has a more college ready body than Ellis and will get a few months with Todd Smith before the season starts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So what you're saying is that neither should "be a lock" to be ahead of the other come November?

Am I the only one that remembers how as a top 35 recruit, JJJ was going to be the next big time player, until he averaged 4 ppg his freshman year? Or how Harry Froling was going to be a difference maker, for one game against Gtown. Or how Chartouny was the can't miss transfer because he was exactly what we needed and would be the missing piece? Let's actually let these guys play a game before we start anointing them.

I'm sorry, did I anoint somebody and miss it?

[Its DJOver]

Practicing against Darryl this past season isn't going to do much for Ellis in a season that starts 7 months from now. It's a nice thought but at the end of the day doesn't mean a whole lot.

Jones already has a more college ready body than Ellis and will get a few months with Todd Smith before the season starts.

If you don't think working with a guard like Darryl everyday and having an extra full year lifting weights is gonna make a difference, then you really don't understand the game.

I would love to be wrong and have Jones be an immediate impact player, I'm just wondering when the last time we had someone this small and this lowly ranked come in and have the type of effect that you're describing?

[Its DJOver]

I'm sorry, did I anoint somebody and miss it?

You didn't. Others have done so in the past, and it didn't exactly always work out.

[lawdog77]

He had a year practicing with Darryl everyday and working with Todd Smith everyday. Unless you think the only experience come from actual game time, in which case I would be wondering what you think Keeyan was doing all last year.

Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.

[Its DJOver]

Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.

Todd Smith is the face of it, but it comes down to the differences between a collegiate level strength and conditioning program with the resources that we provide and invest, versus a high school level program. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You didn't. Others have done so in the past, and it didn't exactly always work out.

Okay, so would you not like us to discuss and make predictions about next season's depth chart during the offseason on this, a Marquette basketball fan forum? I'm not seeing what the issue is here.

[Tha Hound]

Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.

Its just a meme. Guy is nothing special.

[GoldenEagles03]

If you don't think working with a guard like Darryl everyday and having an extra full year lifting weights is gonna make a difference, then you really don't understand the game.

I would love to be wrong and have Jones be an immediate impact player, I'm just wondering when the last time we had someone this small and this lowly ranked come in and have the type of effect that you're describing?

Lowly ranked?

Jones is in the ESPN Top 100 and was the Ohio Player of the Year.

Why must every player be compared to someone from the past?

Sean Jones is Sean Jones and he is really talented.

[Viper]

As it stands this very moment in time I think the depth chart is as follows:

Kolek/S. Jones/Ellis
K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Ross
Joplin/Gold/Itejere
Ighodaro

There are 2 spots available and Wrightsil seems to be on the verge of taking 1 of those 2 spots. Pure speculation, but the hope seems to be

Kolek/S. Jones
Ramey/K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Joplin/Ross
Wrightsil/Gold/Itejere
Washington/Ighodaro

Update: Wrightsil and the official MarquetteMBB account now follow each other on Instagram. Seems like he's all but decided on his future. Probably just waiting for his visit tomorrow to confirm his thoughts.

i'm not down with Kolek. I prefer Mitchell from what he showed late season.

[Its DJOver]

Okay, so would you not like us to discuss and make predictions about next season's depth chart during the offseason on this, a Marquette basketball fan forum? I'm not seeing what the issue is here.

There's no issue, I just: one, prefer to temper expectations about incoming freshman, and two, ask for sample size and level of competition that we're basing those expectations off of. See below.

And this conclusion is based of high school highlight videos correct?

Have you seen Jones play a full game in person or have you only seen YouTube highlights of him?

Once again, how are you drawing these conclusions? Have you seen extensive full games of Jones content or just mixtapes and highlight videos?

Given the extensive history of overvaluing a player before he ever suits up for us, I don't think that's a huge thing to ask for.

[Its DJOver]

Lowly ranked?

Jones is in the ESPN Top 100 and was the Ohio Player of the Year.

Why must every player be compared to someone from the past?

Sean Jones is Sean Jones and he is really talented.

ESPN rankings are garbage.  247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked.  Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.

[brewcity77]

See below.

I mean...TAMU literally already answered this, so I'm not sure why you keep belaboring the same point.

I've watched a few full games of Jones. I like him a lot and if Ellis were to not improve over the offseason, I would definitely pick Jones ahead of him on the depth chart.

[Its DJOver]

I mean...TAMU literally already answered this, so I'm not sure why you keep belaboring the same point.

I kept on it because GEE03 didn't answer until I asked it three times. Once TAMU responded all I did was say that neither should be a shoo in to be ahead of the other.  Using the word "anoint" was probably a bit strong, but at times, we have all fallen victim of thinking a player is going to be a lot better for MU than they turn out to be.  I'm just trying to prevent that from happening, because, if Jones doesn't turn out to be the high impact player that GUE03 thinks, I can confidently say that Jones will get torn apart here.

[GoldenEagles03]

ESPN rankings are garbage.  247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked.  Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.

In the way we would have?

That is a hilarious statement. We didn't beat them out for their services so who cares. You can win without players who are recruited by Blue Bloods. See the transfer portal for Mid Majors all over leaving to Blue Bloods who now want them for evidence.

[Its DJOver]

In the way we would have?

That is a hilarious statement. We didn't beat them out for their services so who cares. You can win without players who are recruited by Blue Bloods. See the transfer portal for Mid Majors all over leaving to Blue Bloods who now want them for evidence.

As upperclassmen.  You said that Jones was a lock to be ahead of Ellis next year as a true Freshman.  JR Jones may end up being better than SR Ellis, but I have a hard time believing that will be the case from day one.

[jfp61]

ESPN rankings are garbage.  247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked.  Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.

Houston wanted Jones. Offered him. The team Grimes actually played well at. A back to back top 5 program.

Arizona was not a Blue Blood under Sean miller.

[brewcity77]

I kept on it because GEE03 didn't answer until I asked it three times. Once TAMU responded all I did was say that neither should be a shoo in to be ahead of the other.  Using the word "anoint" was probably a bit strong, but at times, we have all fallen victim of thinking a player is going to be a lot better for MU than they turn out to be.  I'm just trying to prevent that from happening, because, if Jones doesn't turn out to be the high impact player that GUE03 thinks, I can confidently say that Jones will get torn apart here.

Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).

[Its DJOver]

Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).

The difference of course being that the more you hype them the harder and faster you turn on them.  The Sy commitment out of high school kind of came out of the blue so he didn't have a lot of opportunity to get hyped up.  IMO he didn't get ripped nearly as hard as Dex, who got hyped up to no end following a summer report from a former NBA player. If we get 4 years of Derrick like production from Jones, he will deservedly get criticized.  If we expect him to contribute from day one, and he doesn't, he will get criticized much quicker and much harsher.

Edit: also, apologies to TAMU, he originally gave a much more reasoned analysis than my response probably merited.

[GoldenEagles03]

Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).

Not to mention you won't see me tear apart any player ever. Even if a player doesn't work out you won't find me ripping into them.

I've always been under the belief that if you chose to play for my team I will back you until you're gone at the very least.

As I noted, Ellis could wind up being a good player for MU. As it stands right now I can't see anyway he is playing Point Guard ahead of Jones.

[bilsu]

I really like Ellis's potential. He is quick and he just needs strength and playing time.

[brewcity77]

The difference of course being that the more you hype them the harder and faster you turn on them.  The Sy commitment out of high school kind of came out of the blue so he didn't have a lot of opportunity to get hyped up.  IMO he didn't get ripped nearly as hard as Dex, who got hyped up to no end following a summer report from a former NBA player. If we get 4 years of Derrick like production from Jones, he will deservedly get criticized.  If we expect him to contribute from day one, and he doesn't, he will get criticized much quicker and much harsher.

Edit: also, apologies to TAMU, he originally gave a much more reasoned analysis than my response probably merited.

If the team produces, I don't think it will matter much. Derrick Wilson didn't get criticized when he was a bench player whose greatest notoriety came from killing Wisconsin one game and being Junior's backup in the rest of them, it came when he had to take the starting role for two teams that didn't make the tournament. Sy took less criticism as a freshman on a (would've been) tourney team than when we needed him to be a rotation guard and he couldn't provide stability alongside McEwen and Carton. You mentioned Froling, I'm not convinced it was the overhype more than it was that team missing the tournament while he became less and less influential as the season went on.

Does anyone have any lingering antipathy over Jamal Ferguson, Ed Morrow, or Joe Fulce? None of them delivered on what were at one point big expectations, but all of them were on teams that had success even when their roles were minimized. If Jones plays on a winner, we'll be fine with him even if he's the 11th man in an 8-man rotation. If we miss the tourney the next two years, he'll likely be ripped, along with the rest of the team. Ultimately, results matter.

[Its DJOver]

If the team produces, I don't think it will matter much. Derrick Wilson didn't get criticized when he was a bench player whose greatest notoriety came from killing Wisconsin one game and being Junior's backup in the rest of them, it came when he had to take the starting role for two teams that didn't make the tournament. Sy took less criticism as a freshman on a (would've been) tourney team than when we needed him to be a rotation guard and he couldn't provide stability alongside McEwen and Carton. You mentioned Froling, I'm not convinced it was the overhype more than it was that team missing the tournament while he became less and less influential as the season went on.

Does anyone have any lingering antipathy over Jamal Ferguson, Ed Morrow, or Joe Fulce? None of them delivered on what were at one point big expectations, but all of them were on teams that had success even when their roles were minimized. If Jones plays on a winner, we'll be fine with him even if he's the 11th man in an 8-man rotation. If we miss the tourney the next two years, he'll likely be ripped, along with the rest of the team. Ultimately, results matter.

Which big man had more hype surrounding them entering the 18-19 season, Ed, or Joey?

[MU82]

Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.

Remember a couple years ago when we were recruiting some stud (can't remember which one) and guru excitedly began a post with, "This is not a drill!" He was all giddy because Smith started following the kid, and that supposedly meant the kid was coming to Marquette. (P.S.: He didn't.) Good times!

[brewcity77]

Which big man had more hype surrounding them entering the 18-19 season, Ed, or Joey?

Joey was hyped, but Morrow was that perfect fit guy. The enforcer who could rebound (something we didn't do in 2018) and add toughness. But instead he was just a backup who never did much aside from blocking Ethan Happ and left in the middle of his second year. Had those teams been as bad as Wojo's average, he'd have been skewered, but they were Wojo's best years, so we focus more on the Hausers because of how they left and Ed gets a pass.