MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenEagles03 on December 18, 2021, 10:57:02 PM
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I know most don't like to look ahead because first and foremost is getting better this year, but someone's gotta do it!
Darryl and Kur will be gone. Justin could very well go pro. Greg has already been in College 5 years, will he want to stay a 6th?
That leaves us with:
1. Stevie (Diminished role as season progresses)
2. Emarion (Limited Role)
3. Joplin (Limited Role)
4. OMax (Diminished role as season progresses)
5. Kolek (Major role)
6. Kam (Major role)
7. Oso (Major role)
8. Keeyan (Redshirt)
Incoming are 2 guards Sean Jones and Chase Ross.
Stevie, Emarion, Kolek, and Jones all are best used as a PG and it's hard to see any of them sharing too much time on the court together. There are some solid returning pieces, but arguably more question marks than this year and of those 10 names only Oso is a real post.
Seems like ever since...you know...let's just say 2014, we've been stuck in an endless cycle of rebuilding.
On the bright side, Justin and Greg could decide to stay and I trust Shaka to often utilize the transfer portal, but for a fanbase desperate to get back to relevance in March this is a reminder to be patient.
Interested to hear some other input. Concerns? Optimism? Encouragement? General thoughts?
Go Marquette!
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We’re fu*ked
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DePaulquette University
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I see one transfer in the group or even 2. So they will be able to bring in a big and another forward otherwise it will really look like a long season.
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I see one transfer in the group or even 2. So they will be able to bring in a big and another forward otherwise it will really look like a long season.
Agreed. Everyone panicking about next years roster needs to relax. Worry about that next summer
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I find it insane to be discussing next season outlook at this time. I am fairly confident that there will be 4+ new players on the team next year and until the roster is finalized it is impossible to even discuss what next year looks like.
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I find it insane to be discussing next season outlook at this time. I am fairly confident that there will be 4+ new players on the team next year and until the roster is finalized it is impossible to even discuss what next year looks like.
Yep. We will have transfers in and transfers out. Discussing next year is really premature.
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Butt, if da world kums two an end, der won't bea a next season, aina?
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I'll be surprised to see Justin Lewis go pro. Test the waters, sure. But pull the trigger? I don't see it. Then again,
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlU5kz5zfazqPbG/giphy.gif)
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Sean Jones is the only one that projects exclusively as a point. Kolek is a natural 2 that can create and has been forced into that role on this team. Stevie, Ellis, and Kam Jones all have the athleticism and length to function 1-3. But generally, I expect those five (and Ross) to fill the 1/2 spots.
On the wings, if Lewis isn't back, it's Joplin and O-Max. This is where we need the most help. Hopefully another proven scorer or two.
Up front I feel most confident. Oso will be fine and Keeyan can slide into the 10-15 minute backup position.
Without wing help, we probably go small a bit with Jones and Ellis taking the Morsell role, which is fine. End of the day, the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores, and we have a lot of freshmen.
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"Seems like ever since...you know...let's just say 2014, we've been stuck in an endless cycle of rebuilding"
This is where I get a little disillusioned with this year's team and the possibility for next year. We will probably finish in the bottom half of the Big East this year, and the incoming recruits are not difference makers, at least according to their recruiting rankings. Unless we find some shooters from the transfer portal, we could struggle again next year. Then we are essentially still rebuilding in year 3 and 4 - how long is this rebuild going to take???
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I'll be surprised to see Justin Lewis go pro. Test the waters, sure. But pull the trigger? I don't see it. Then again,
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlU5kz5zfazqPbG/giphy.gif)
Agreed, but transferring is more likely. Poaching is rampant with the Portal, coaches likely already have him targeted and are communicating through his AAU and HS coaches about NBA development and claiming that Shaka can’t get him there as a 4.
That said, Shaka and staff should be targeting a PG to pursue via the Portal.
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Not to worried about next season. Assuming Lewis stays, Omax and Joplin need to grow up this season to be 3/4 combination forwards. When I look at Joplin I see a Kerry trotter type 3. That makes Kam and Kolek the guards. Smart just needs to get two bigs to go with Igadoro w2ho I think is making good progress as a 4/5. No worries, enjoy this season.
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How much bread ya got, hey?
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Agreed, but transferring is more likely. Poaching is rampant with the Portal, coaches likely already have him targeted and are communicating through his AAU and HS coaches about NBA development and claiming that Shaka can’t get him there as a 4.
That said, Shaka and staff should be targeting a PG to pursue via the Portal.
He isn't playing a 4. He is playing all over the place, shooting 3's, taking it to the rack, taki h advantage of mismatches. He is playing a complete forward game.
For better or for worse, he is a tweener at the college level. It is difficult to predict how that plays in the league.
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He isn't playing a 4. He is playing all over the place, shooting 3's, taking it to the rack, taki h advantage of mismatches. He is playing a complete forward game.
For better or for worse, he is a tweener at the college level. It is difficult to predict how that plays in the league.
And that’s what poacher coaches are going to approaching him on.
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Maybe Shaka does some poaching, too.
Angst about next season. Perfectly Scooptastic.
What about the 2032-33 season? Coach Rowsey coaches effen D like he played it!
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Maybe Shaka does some poaching, too.
Angst about next season. Perfectly Scooptastic.
What about the 2032-33 season? Coach Rowsey coaches effen D like he played it!
Inexcusable!
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Sean Jones is the only one that projects exclusively as a point. Kolek is a natural 2 that can create and has been forced into that role on this team. Stevie, Ellis, and Kam Jones all have the athleticism and length to function 1-3. But generally, I expect those five (and Ross) to fill the 1/2 spots.
On the wings, if Lewis isn't back, it's Joplin and O-Max. This is where we need the most help. Hopefully another proven scorer or two.
Up front I feel most confident. Oso will be fine and Keeyan can slide into the 10-15 minute backup position.
Without wing help, we probably go small a bit with Jones and Ellis taking the Morsell role, which is fine. End of the day, the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores, and we have a lot of freshmen.
Technically any guard could play the 2 sure, but Mitchell, Jones, Kolek, Ellis are all best served playing the true PG spot.
2 and 3 guards need to be able to score from outside and at the rim in the Big East. Those 4 are primarily distributors and can't be passing to other guys looking to pass.
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Technically any guard could play the 2 sure, but Mitchell, Jones, Kolek, Ellis are all best served playing the true PG spot.
Hard disagree. Kam Jones is unquestionably a 2. Tyler Kolek is absolutely a 2, which is why George Mason played him there last year despite having to platoon their PG position. Ellis right now plays like more of a wing.
Stevie, maybe, but Sean Jones is the only one locked into that position.
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We should poach Brad Davison
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Agreed. Everyone panicking about next years roster needs to relax. Worry about that next summer
I'm not necessarily worried, just interested. I enjoy looking at the bigger picture. How we look now, how we look next year, how we look the year after that. It's all intriguing, especially now with the portal.
Ideally you want to see improvement year to year but with the way things are just a nice little reminder to be patient because it may take a good while to get back to where we want to be.
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Hard disagree. Kam Jones is unquestionably a 2. Tyler Kolek is absolutely a 2, which is why George Mason played him there last year despite having to platoon their PG position. Ellis right now plays like more of a wing.
Stevie, maybe, but Sean Jones is the only one locked into that position.
When I say Jones, I'm talking Sean.
Kam is definitely a 2, he's locked into that spot for 4 years.
Mitchell, Sean Jones, Kolek, Ellis are quite clearly to me best served as PGs. They could play 2s at times, but I don't think you feel comfortable with Mitchell, Kolek, Ellis as your 2 guards
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Apparently, it’s never too early to pant piss for some….
I find it insane to be discussing next season outlook at this time. I am fairly confident that there will be 4+ new players on the team next year and until the roster is finalized it is impossible to even discuss what next year looks like.
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Hard disagree. Kam Jones is unquestionably a 2. Tyler Kolek is absolutely a 2, which is why George Mason played him there last year despite having to platoon their PG position.
Agree 100% about Kam. He's a 2, he's got very nice form on his shot, and I think he's gonna be a real good player for the program.
As for for Kolek, he was a PG his entire life until last season. He sees the court like a PG. And he's neither a good enough outside shooter nor basket slasher to be a 2. Maybe a combo guard, but I think PG. And so does Shaka, it would appear.
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I think looking ahead can be a fun exercise but it's pure Scoop that so many of these prognostications are completely negative.
What about Lewis staying, the other returnees continuing to get better, one of the freshman being in the rotation and contributing, and Shaka adding an impact transfer or two?
That optimistic take is just as likely as all these negative ones.
The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle, of course.
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Honestly, if all 9 of the non super seniors return, I think this is a top 25 team next year. Get one more transfer 4/5 that can defend.
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I think looking ahead can be a fun exercise but it's pure Scoop that so many of these prognostications are completely negative.
What about Lewis staying, the other returnees continuing to get better, one of the freshman being in the rotation and contributing, and Shaka adding an impact transfer or two?
That optimistic take is just as likely as all these negative ones.
The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle, of course.
No! Bad VBMG! Bad! Logic Bad!
We are doomed, doomed I say!
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No! Bad VBMG! Bad! Logic Bad!
We are doomed, doomed I say!
You're right. My fault.
Fire Shaka! Rehire Wojo!!
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"Seems like ever since...you know...let's just say 2014, we've been stuck in an endless cycle of rebuilding"
This is where I get a little disillusioned with this year's team and the possibility for next year. We will probably finish in the bottom half of the Big East this year, and the incoming recruits are not difference makers, at least according to their recruiting rankings. Unless we find some shooters from the transfer portal, we could struggle again next year. Then we are essentially still rebuilding in year 3 and 4 - how long is this rebuild going to take???
The difference is that I always thought we would be better next year. I do not think we will be better next year.
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Honestly, if all 9 of the non super seniors return, I think this is a top 25 team next year. Get one more transfer 4/5 that can defend.
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I like your confidence, do not see all 9 back, but Elliott comes back and a decent center who has some offensive skill would be nice, ie. A center who can shoot from at least the free throw line
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The difference is that I always thought we would be better next year. I do not think we will be better next year.
(https://c.tenor.com/d1DW-5oWC7EAAAAC/anchorman-will-ferrell.gif)
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The difference is that I always thought we would be better next year. I do not think we will be better next year.
What does the roster look like? Knowing the future, can you place some bets for me ? I’ll give you 20 percent of our winnings !
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One thing I think we can all be confident in is the PG position.
Kolek and Sean Jones are going to be an Elite 1/2 punch at handling the ball and distributing. Playing fast is obviously our new identity and protecting the ball while playing fast isn't always easy. We are set up very nicely in that department. Can never have too many on-court quarterbacks.
https://twitter.com/JakeSpegal270/status/1472032560037384193?t=Na1aCJHhBhc94czAXejB9Q&s=19
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Apparently, Chase Ross was the MVP of the Cushing Holiday Invitational Tournament.
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Apparently, Chase Ross was the MVP of the Cushing Holiday Invitational Tournament.
He strikes me as a very traditional Big East guard. He loves attacking the rim and is elite at playing above it.
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Chase Ross looks like a Shaka dude for sure. Very excited for him next year as a 2/3 type. Big, athletic, defends and the form on his jumper is really fluid.
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It comes down to how well Shaka is able to hold this group together.
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Nah, ya no da door swings both weys. Shaka may wanna OutSmart sum dudes, hey?
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Not to worried about next season. Assuming Lewis stays, Omax and Joplin need to grow up this season to be 3/4 combination forwards. When I look at Joplin I see a Kerry trotter type 3. That makes Kam and Kolek the guards. Smart just needs to get two bigs to go with Igadoro w2ho I think is making good progress as a 4/5. No worries, enjoy this season.
Please...Joplin may turn out to be a nice player but he is not a Kerry Trotter type. Trotter was a top 25 player out of HS.
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The difference is that I always thought we would be better next year. I do not think we will be better next year.
So you’ve been fairly consistently wrong - hope your streak continues.
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1. It would help if Lewis returns and continues to improve. But after Vander Blue, Brendan Bailey, and DJ Carton, I gave up trying to predict when players would turn pro.
2. If Lewis leaves, O-Max needs to step up. Right now he's more athlete than basketball player. The defense and rebounding are ok but his offense is very raw. O-Max needs to find a way to take his O to the max.
3. Kolek is the PG. I don't think he has a huge upside (he turns 21 in March) but 10-12 ppg, 5 apg, 36% on 3's and TO rate under 18% would be a very solid starter.
4. Sean Jones has a legit chance to backup the PG. If he's good enough to play 20 mpg, Kolek can slide to SG for 10 mpg.
5. Kam Jones and Greg Elliott (assuming he returns) are the best wings but I really want to add a top notch transfer that can score. Emarion Ellis and Chase Ross both have potential. Hopefully at least one of them will be good enough to make our team better.
6. Stevie Mitchell looks like Derrick Wilson 2.0 so far. But let's see how he progresses the rest of this season and into next season.
7. I really like Oso at the 5 but I want a grad transfer just as good to have two capable players at that spot. Itejere might be 2 years away, but I like his athleticism for this system and I think he ends up being a solid player in the long run.
8. Still like Joplin longterm. Need him to challenge O-Max.
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Kolek is a natural 2
Yet Kolek is our point, who happens to lead the BE in assists. It could be he's a natural 1, and it wasn't recognized. He'd be a better 1 if he had a better handle, but writing a guy off as a point when he's the assist leader seems presumptuous. I think of a 2 guard as a shooter and we've had no end of posts about Kolek's shooting problems.
Definitely agree, our big need is bigs. Big bigs, wings, rebounders. Perhaps we have to trust Shaka to formulate a roster he thinks can win.
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So you’ve been fairly consistently wrong - hope your streak continues.
Sometimes we were better.
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Yet Kolek is our point, who happens to lead the BE in assists. It could be he's a natural 1, and it wasn't recognized. He'd be a better 1 if he had a better handle, but writing a guy off as a point when he's the assist leader seems presumptuous. I think of a 2 guard as a shooter and we've had no end of posts about Kolek's shooting problems.
Definitely agree, our big need is bigs. Big bigs, wings, rebounders. Perhaps we have to trust Shaka to formulate a roster he thinks can win.
Kolek isn't a 2. To be an effective 2 in the Big East you need to be able to shoot and/or slash and play a little bit above the rim. Kolek does neither of those things and he has a set shot making it very difficult for him to shoot off the dribble. He is a true PG. If he can get that 3P% up to 35% he could be a darn good PG too.
To your point about the BIGS...I expect Shaka to recruit a bunch of them. That's what he was known for at Texas and I expect him to try and do the same here.
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You're right. My fault.
Fire Shaka! Rehire Wojo!!
watching yesterdays game, Wojo was no doubt proud.
If everyone that can return does return, add a transfer, sprinkle in the two recruits, should be a tourney team. Should beat RED. Hopefully can beat ND.
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If they return…
Justin will play a ton
Kolek, Oso, and Kam will play a lot.
I still have high hopes for Stevie and Joplin, I think they find a significant role. There could be a logjam at the 1 and that might affect Stevie’s progression however.
I don’t expect GE to return, he’s been on campus far too long.
I just don’t see a way that Omax works at this level, but I’d love to be proven wrong. After all, Shaka saw something in the early stages to have him in the starting five. I can see Ellis taking a step up but him and Itijere are likely backup role players until further along in their careers.
No idea about the incoming freshmen, but I think Shaka makes it a yearly trend to try to bring in 2-3 impact transfers to complement his younger core. Likely upperclassmen, including one that will be expected to score in bunches and another that will be an impact athletic big.
For next season he might need more than 2-3.
If Justin doesn’t return that would be a very bad thing.
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In my opinion, we need a really good three point shooter. That is the offense and we don’t have anyone who shoots it all that great. Cam has potential but needs to pick his shots better.
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Good point.
I’d say MU is pretty good in the ball handling and game managing department for a few years.
I think I’m comfortable in the big man department with Oso, but either another bigger body or effective shot changer/rebounder is needed.
Not at all comfortable in the shooting department, as should be obvious to everyone by now. That said, Kam and Joplin will definitely improve and hit a lot more 3s. Kolek has to get better there’s really no getting worse, only alternative is to just stop taking them except for completely unguarded and set but I don’t see that happening.
I know many have been disappointed with Justin’s 3P attempts, but I like Justin’s shot and think he will improve with another years work too.
Next years sneaky difficult task for the staff will be finding a way to stay competitive in the “bruiser” category and improving the rebounding.
With the loss of Morsell and Kuath it will be easy for the team to become soft.
Oso is effective in his own right but a bruiser he is not.
Our 3/4s outside of Lewis are relatively soft as well.
IMO Shaka needs a Villanova type 4 along with another 5- a player that can hold his own in the paint and score just enough to go along with his plus defense and elite rebounding. If he accomplishes that then Justin would be freed of having to carry too much of that defensive load and could step over to the 3 in a nice 3 big lineup.
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If Greg returns he'll eclipse Otule's tenure, no? Perhaps he's going for the years at MU record (as an eligible hoops player...).
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While Greg has been a nice addition to the team the past few games, I think there is very little chance he returns next season.
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This take is pure speculation as is those from the other side - However I could certainly make the argument that it’s a no brainer Greg stays. He’s playing the best basketball of his career and in what’s becoming a prominent role. He’s not going to get big time pro looks so why not run it back if MU’s prospects for next year are good?
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This take is pure speculation as is those from the other side - However I could certainly make the argument that it’s a no brainer Greg stays. He’s playing the best basketball of his career and in what’s becoming a prominent role. He’s not going to get big time pro looks so why not run it back if MU’s prospects for next year are good?
And get his PhD while he's at it! ;D
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(https://media1.giphy.com/media/8UG1edVCQECic/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b2i6p7gm6iesucsattg860hinuympa9g8bd01roia&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
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Will we average over 59.5 points per game in 2022?
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Will we average over 59.5 points per game in 2022?
Need to average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season, if all of our Big East games are played and the last game we play this year (which it would be if we average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season) is the one game in the Big East Tournament we would get.
Going to be a close call.
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Need to average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season, if all of our Big East games are played and the last game we play this year (which it would be if we average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season) is the one game in the Big East Tournament we would get.
Going to be a close call.
I love how this has turned into a scoop meme. This team, outside of Lewis - who I love but is becoming a big of chucker (largely by necessity) - is really not very good at scoring the basketball whatsoever. Which was the point. They're averaging 68.5 PPG against non-cupcake teams, and have been largely outclassed against all good teams they've played short of a clearly overrated Illinois playing without their PreSeason All American.
So I would say the concern that this team isn't very good at scoring the basketball has been largely accurate. There really hasn't even been any pleasant surprises. Morsell has been mostly bad on offense since the first few games, and while Jones has provided more than I anticipated, he's not exactly lighting it up at 7.7 PPG.
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Before the season, I worried about where the scoring and 3 point shooting would come from and predicted there would be games where the half court offense broke down and MU scored in the 50's. 12 games in and MU has finished in the fifties twice. So, I was right. And yes, it has become a meme. Makes me laugh every time.
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Need to average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season, if all of our Big East games are played and the last game we play this year (which it would be if we average 50.7 points per game for the rest of the season) is the one game in the Big East Tournament we would get.
Going to be a close call.
You forgot to factor in a couple 2-0 W/Ls, that'll bring us the average down a lot, even if they are Ws!
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I love how this has turned into a scoop meme. This team, outside of Lewis - who I love but is becoming a big of chucker (largely by necessity) - is really not very good at scoring the basketball whatsoever. Which was the point. They're averaging 68.5 PPG against non-cupcake teams, and have been largely outclassed against all good teams they've played short of a clearly overrated Illinois playing without their PreSeason All American.
So I would say the concern that this team isn't very good at scoring the basketball has been largely accurate. There really hasn't even been any pleasant surprises. Morsell has been mostly bad on offense since the first few games, and while Jones has provided more than I anticipated, he's not exactly lighting it up at 7.7 PPG.
We are averaging 73 points per game on the season. Yes, if you take away all the high scoring games, the scoring average would be bad.
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If Greg returns he'll eclipse Otule's tenure, no? Perhaps he's going for the years at MU record (as an eligible hoops player...).
I saw Traci Carter played for Hartford the other day. For context, he was a freshman in the class with Henry Ellenson, Matt Heldt, and Sacar Anim.
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While Greg has been a nice addition to the team the past few games, I think there is very little chance he returns next season.
I'm glad to see you're coming around a little on Greg. And I'm doubly glad that Shaka didn't listen to those who considered Greg not worth keeping -- as if 45%+ 3-point shooters are easy to find.
We already have a horrible 3-point shooting squad. Without Greg's 50% this season, our team percentage would barely be 30%.
Going forward, Shaka's biggest challenge with Greg might be to figure out what the ideal amount of PT is for an increasingly valuable player who has been hurt a lot and who is not used to max minutes.
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I won't say I am coming around on GE, just being a team player on scoop. He is the best shooter at the moment and that is needed big time. Overall, happy to see him play a role this year and hopefully next year there will be a really skilled portal guy filling that spot.
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Fair enough, Goose.
Maybe when Greg's hitting 60% and the rest of the team's at 20%, you'll come around on GE!
(Hopefully, the second of those two stats doesn't happen!!)
I'm also hopeful that Shaka finds a really skilled player for that spot. And for the PG, 3 and 5 spots, too. We need more talent up and down the lineup.
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Fair enough, Goose.
Maybe when Greg's hitting 60% and the rest of the team's at 20%, you'll come around on GE!
(Hopefully, the second of those two stats doesn't happen!!)
I'm also hopeful that Shaka finds a really skilled player for that spot. And for the PG, 3 and 5 spots, too. We need more talent up and down the lineup.
Greg has been a very consistent and solid player . Guys who can shoot 3s at the rate he does don’t grow on trees .
Greg has had to overcome a lot of injuries over the years . However , he has shown on multiple occasions when he is healthy that he is a Big East Level guard .
Greg is also a fiery and aggressive player and we need that kind of spirit on the team.
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Greg has been a very consistent and solid player . Guys who can shoot 3s at the rate he does don’t grow on trees .
Greg has had to overcome a lot of injuries over the years . However , he has shown on multiple occasions when he is healthy that he is a Big East Level guard .
Greg is also a fiery and aggressive player and we need that kind of spirit on the team.
I agree with every word of that, 9-9-9.
Greg's not a great defender and sometimes his handle is loose, but he is one of the best shooters anywhere, and he appears to be a wonderful teammate. Even during his suspension, he usually was the first off the bench to cheer on his fellow players. I've always loved his spirit.
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I agree with every word of that, 9-9-9.
Greg's not a great defender and sometimes his handle is loose, but he is one of the best shooters anywhere, and he appears to be a wonderful teammate. Even during his suspension, he usually was the first off the bench to cheer on his fellow players. I've always loved his spirit.
He also has good body control and a large wing span that allows him to finish at the rim better than most of our guards.
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He also has good body control and a large wing span that allows him to finish at the rim better than most of our guards.
You’re right.
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We are averaging 73 points per game on the season. Yes, if you take away all the high scoring games, the scoring average would be bad.
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I didn't take away the high scoring games, I took away the games against garbage opponents. If you don't think scoring the basketball is a major issue for this team, you either haven't been watching, or have the darkest of all tinted blue and gold glasses. Offense is a major issue for this team, as many of us expected heading into the season.
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I didn't take away the high scoring games, I took away the games against garbage opponents. If you don't think scoring the basketball is a major issue for this team, you either haven't been watching, or have the darkest of all tinted blue and gold glasses. Offense is a major issue for this team, as many of us expected heading into the season.
The rebounding is a much bigger concern for me personally. We scored enough to win against Xavier and Wisconsin. Yes, there will be nights where we lay an egg (UCLA, St. Bonne's), but that's true of most college basketball teams. Unless you're one of the very top teams, you're going to have nights where you just couldn't throw the ball in the ocean if you were standing next to it. Overall the offense is "good enough" to get us into the Tournament. It's certainly not as good as a Markus Howard led offense, but it's not something that will prevent us from being a competitive team. Rebounding and giving up easy transition baskets are things that we are going to struggle with every night.
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J5
I do not think scoring is a major issue, being efficient is a major issue. This is not an offensive powerhouse by any means, but scoring points is number three in things for improvement for me. Rebounding better and eliminating sloppy turnovers are bigger issues than the points being scored. If they tidy up those two things, they will score more points as well.
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J5
I do not think scoring is a major issue, being efficient is a major issue. This is not an offensive powerhouse by any means, but scoring points is number three in things for improvement for me. Rebounding better and eliminating sloppy turnovers are bigger issues than the points being scored. If they tidy up those two things, they will score more points as well.
This current group will never become a consistent offensive juggernaut this season. They absolutely can improve rebounding.
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Hopefully Stevie and OMax define “the best thing about freshman is they become sophomores. Stevie not close to ready and OMax can’t even catch the ball right now. They’ll need to get up to speed quickly if Morsell is out more than tonight.
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I did not understand why OMAX was recruited to begin with/ he has done nothing.
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If they return…
I just don’t see a way that Omax works at this level, but I’d love to be proven wrong. After all, Shaka saw something in the early stages to have him in the starting five. I can see Ellis taking a step up but him and Itijere are likely backup role players until further along in their careers.
No idea about the incoming freshmen, but I think Shaka makes it a yearly trend to try to bring in 2-3 impact transfers to complement his younger core. Likely upperclassmen, including one that will be expected to score in bunches and another that will be an impact athletic big.
For next season he might need more than 2-3.
If Justin doesn’t return that would be a very bad thing.
What does this guy know
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nvm
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ESPN 2022 NBA Mock Draft Update as of this morning.
Justin Lewis 35th Overall Pick.
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ESPN 2022 NBA Mock Draft Update as of this morning.
Justin Lewis 35th Overall Pick.
Selfishly, I want JL to be around next season. Heck, I'd love to see him on our team for 2 more years.
But I'm really rooting for him to play his way into the first round. He's got a lot of heart and a good amount of talent, too. He's barely scratched the surface of what he can be.
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Selfishly, I want JL to be around next season. Heck, I'd love to see him on our team for 2 more years.
But I'm really rooting for him to play his way into the first round. He's got a lot of heart and a good amount of talent, too. He's barely scratched the surface of what he can be.
Can't imagine a scenario where he is back. Good for him!
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Can't imagine a scenario where he is back. Good for him!
Well, I can "imagine" him not playing as well and falling down on the list. But I don't think that's what will happen. More likely he'll play himself into even better draft position. I hope so!
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I think Justin need to work on his 3 point shooting to be an NBA draftee next spring at this point. He is 6 of his last 37 attempts or 16%.
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Fair. He is unlikely to be able to bully-ball his way to the hoop in the NBA.
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Lewis at #35 overall in 2022?? I'm no pessimist, but that sounds COMPLETELY decoupled from reality. That's somewhere in the neighborhood of Jaquez and Juzang from UCLA.
If he has a breakout season from here on in, he might have a chance to go that high. But as of today I have to believe that's at least 20 picks too high.
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Lewis at #35 overall in 2022?? I'm no pessimist, but that sounds COMPLETELY decoupled from reality. That's somewhere in the neighborhood of Jaquez and Juzang from UCLA.
If he has a breakout season from here on in, he might have a chance to go that high. But as of today I have to believe that's at least 20 picks too high.
Yes. 35 in 2022, meaning he likely has about 3 months left at Marquette. Could he benefit from another year here, of course, but guys typically head out ASAP.
Unfortunate for the outlook of next season, but you have to be happy for the kid.
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Lewis is undersized power forward and not good enough shooter to be a small forward. He needs at least 1 more year in college. I watched DJ Carton in the G league
game and he really needed more time in college. He is very athletic but has no mid range game, no jumper what so ever, and a very slow release on his 3 point shot.
He did not look to happy sitting on the bench. Lewis will be doing the same thing, playing in the G league infront of no fans, should stay.
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Lewis is undersized power forward and not good enough shooter to be a small forward. He needs at least 1 more year in college. I watched DJ Carton in the G league
game and he really needed more time in college. He is very athletic but has no mid range game, no jumper what so ever, and a very slow release on his 3 point shot.
He did not look to happy sitting on the bench. Lewis will be doing the same thing, playing in the G league infront of no fans, should stay.
Needing more time in college is irrelevant to most kids when money gets introduced. Why go to college and have to take classes, and trudge through Milwaukee winters when you can focus on basketball 100% of the time AND get paid? Justin has very little shot of playing in the NBA next year, but I fully expect him to be cashing a paycheck to play. And its hard to blame him.
Would another year playing against lesser players help his NBA chances? Maybe. Maybe not. But its a tough thing to sell when you're walking away from $.
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Guys,
Lewis can be collecting a paycheck at MU next year. The NIL might end being a very good thing for the program because they are not competing with a football team for money. If I were Shaka and would be recruiting NIL money as much as I was recruiting players. There is plenty of $$$ to support the MU program and it needs to be tapped into. I hope we exceed the luxury tax in short order.
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Needing more time in college is irrelevant to most kids when money gets introduced. Why go to college and have to take classes, and trudge through Milwaukee winters when you can focus on basketball 100% of the time AND get paid? Justin has very little shot of playing in the NBA next year, but I fully expect him to be cashing a paycheck to play. And its hard to blame him.
Would another year playing against lesser players help his NBA chances? Maybe. Maybe not. But its a tough thing to sell when you're walking away from $.
Yep. Some just can't wrap their heads around this, JJJJJJJJJJJJ.
"But he's not ready!" is meaningless.
Lewis can be collecting a paycheck at MU next year. The NIL might end being a very good thing for the program because they are not competing with a football team for money. If I were Shaka and would be recruiting NIL money as much as I was recruiting players. There is plenty of $$$ to support the MU program and it needs to be tapped into. I hope we exceed the luxury tax in short order.
I like this a lot, Goose.
Whether it actually will prevent a guy from leaving -- especially if the guy's gonna be a first-round draft pick -- we can't know that yet. But yes, we need lots of NIL $$$ to come into this program from the kinds of boosters who felt strongly enough about our program that they were willing to pony up millions to make the Wojo-for-Shaka trade happen.
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Guys,
Lewis can be collecting a paycheck at MU next year. The NIL might end being a very good thing for the program because they are not competing with a football team for money. If I were Shaka and would be recruiting NIL money as much as I was recruiting players. There is plenty of $$$ to support the MU program and it needs to be tapped into. I hope we exceed the luxury tax in short order.
Great point Goose and I agree whole heartedly. Now that it’s here, we need a whole department dedicated to it and I’ve been saying that since the conversation of NIL started. Beat the money bushes MU!!!
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None of u actually think MU is gonna
go after NIL money, do u ??
And ... J Lewis leaves, next year will be in the range of bad or worse...
Meaning 7th place or below
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There is plenty of dough out there to help make the guys live a little bit nicer. We are a basketball school and only need to support 12 guys vs. a football school and there are more than enough guys to foot the bill. The sooner they start to win, the easier it is getting into booster's pockets. Hell, I gladly would volunteer to chase down easy money for the guys.
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There is plenty of dough out there to help make the guys live a little bit nicer. We are a basketball school and only need to support 12 guys vs. a football school and there are more than enough guys to foot the bill. The sooner they start to win, the easier it is getting into booster's pockets. Hell, I gladly would volunteer to chase down easy money for the guys.
I assume there is an ocean between making enough money to "live a little nicer" via NIL and making a couple hundred grand to play overseas, or make less $ in the G League but chase your dream of playing in the NBA.
I don't know enough about NIL to know what kind of $ Justin could bring in next year via that. But I have to imagine its miniscule compared to what he could make professionally. This stuff matters.
You also have to consider the high number of blue blood type prgorams that are certain to be reaching out via back channels to tell him to come hone his skills there for a year before the NBA.
Really hope the kid comes back. It will make an enormous difference on what next season looks like. Justin is a really good player. But its naïve to expect very many really good high major players to last 4 or even 3 years in one place these days.
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I assume there is an ocean between making enough money to "live a little nicer" via NIL and making a couple hundred grand to play overseas, or make less $ in the G League but chase your dream of playing in the NBA.
I don't know enough about NIL to know what kind of $ Justin could bring in next year via that. But I have to imagine its miniscule compared to what he could make professionally. This stuff matters.
You also have to consider the high number of blue blood type prgorams that are certain to be reaching out via back channels to tell him to come hone his skills there for a year before the NBA.
Really hope the kid comes back. It will make an enormous difference on what next season looks like. Justin is a really good player. But its naïve to expect very many really good high major players to last 4 or even 3 years in one place these days.
Speaking of NIL money
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXykJJQLCq-/?utm_medium=copy_link
Justin is on the board as of this morning per his Instagram page.
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Speaking of NIL money
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXykJJQLCq-/?utm_medium=copy_link
Justin is on the board as of this morning per his Instagram page.
That's awesome good for him.
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Yes. 35 in 2022, meaning he likely has about 3 months left at Marquette. Could he benefit from another year here, of course, but guys typically head out ASAP.
Unfortunate for the outlook of next season, but you have to be happy for the kid.
happy for him if he’s a 1st round NBA draft choice. For sure. 2nd rd pick? Don’t go.
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Guys,
Lewis can be collecting a paycheck at MU next year. The NIL might end being a very good thing for the program because they are not competing with a football team for money. If I were Shaka and would be recruiting NIL money as much as I was recruiting players. There is plenty of $$$ to support the MU program and it needs to be tapped into. I hope we exceed the luxury tax in short order.
He is likely to transfer, if he wants NIL money.
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Speaking of NIL money
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXykJJQLCq-/?utm_medium=copy_link
Justin is on the board as of this morning per his Instagram page.
Great to see that.
happy for him if he’s a 1st round NBA draft choice. For sure. 2nd rd pick? Don’t go.
Or, how 'bout ...
2nd rd pick? Go if that's what you want to do, or stay if that's what you want to do.
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Great to see that.
Or, how 'bout ...
2nd rd pick? Go if that's what you want to do, or stay if that's what you want to do.
[/quote. I stated an opinion. Why the dick factor?
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Speaking of NIL money
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXykJJQLCq-/?utm_medium=copy_link
Justin is on the board as of this morning per his Instagram page.
That deal is maybe a couple hundred, but more likely a product trade. Outside of the big players (Cavender Twins, Becca Ripley, Bryce Young and other QB’s, Olivia Dunne, Dawson Garcia, the Jackson State dude), NIL deals have been rather small monetarily and more often for product.
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From an AP article:
Most athletes are not making big money from NIL compensation, according to Opendorse, a company that helps athletes navigate the NIL landscape. The median for all DI student athletes between July 1 and Nov. 30 was just $6 per month.
But for those who actually land an NIL deal, the average compensation was $1,256, or $250 a month, said Blake Lawrence, the company’s chief executive officer.
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There is plenty of dough out there to help make the guys live a little bit nicer. We are a basketball school and only need to support 12 guys vs. a football school and there are more than enough guys to foot the bill. The sooner they start to win, the easier it is getting into booster's pockets. Hell, I gladly would volunteer to chase down easy money for the guys.
Going to more difficult than you think. They certainly can pick up some local deals, but national money for an MU player is a real stretch.
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On the mock drafts and Justin Lewis…
These early predictions usually underrepresent European ballers…
I think he doesn’t get drafted.
He definitely can sign a 2 way with some team.
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We have a ton of freshmen. Wasn’t there a coach in the 70s that said something about freshmen? He seemed pretty smart.
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We have a ton of freshmen. Wasn’t there a coach in the 70s that said something about freshmen? He seemed pretty smart.
Some of our "ton" aren't actually freshmen: Lewis, Kolek, O-Max, Oso.
But yes, we do have a lot of young and/or inexperienced players, as well as guys playing roles vastly different from previous years, so I like to think there is quite a bit of upside for several of our players.
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We have a ton of freshmen. Wasn’t there a coach in the 70s that said something about freshmen? He seemed pretty smart.
The best thing about freshman is that they become freshman, again?
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Need to go with how the Brits label their students: First year, second year, third year, etc.
Using that system, not including walk-ons, Marquette has ...
First Year (5) -- Ellis, Itijere, Jones, Joplin, Mitchell
Second Year (4) -- Ighodaro, Kolek, Lewis, Prosper
Third Year (0)
Fourth Year (0)
Fifth Year (3) -- Elliott, Kuath, Morsell
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Need to go with how the Brits label their students:
If we do this, what's next? Driving on the left side of the road, the metric system, eliminating most dentists?
Wait, you're on to something here.
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Did you say 'eliminating most dentists'? Adopting the metric system seems a small price to pay.
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Free Addvise:
Kall a plumber wit yo next tootache, hey?
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Free Addvise:
Kall a plumber wit yo next tootache, hey?
So what you're saying is...listen to the scientists?
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Need to go with how the Brits label their students: First year, second year, third year, etc.
Using that system, not including walk-ons, Marquette has ...
First Year (5) -- Ellis, Itijere, Jones, Joplin, Mitchell
Second Year (4) -- Ighodaro, Kolek, Lewis, Prosper
Third Year (0)
Fourth Year (0)
Fifth Year (3) -- Elliott, Kuath, Morsell
Kur is on his sixth year.
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Hey MU82, that's my shtick!
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If we do this, what's next? Driving on the left side of the road, the metric system, eliminating most dentists?
Wait, you're on to something here.
Haha good one. Funniest attorney I’ve never met!
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Need to go with how the Brits label their students: First year, second year, third year, etc.
Using that system, not including walk-ons, Marquette has ...
First Year (5) -- Ellis, Itijere, Jones, Joplin, Mitchell
Second Year (4) -- Ighodaro, Kolek, Lewis, Prosper
Third Year (0)
Fourth Year (0)
Fifth Year (3) -- Elliott, Kuath, Morsell
in 2 years if everyone sticks around, when lewis is a senior we could be very very good with a transfer or two
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Kur is on his sixth year.
Yeah, I guess you're right if we count juco ... and we might as well!
in 2 years if everyone sticks around, when lewis is a senior we could be very very good with a transfer or two
History has shown that everyone won't stick around ... and that was before players became free agents. As for Lewis, it might be wishful thinking to believe we'll get one more season out of him, let alone two.
Hey MU82, that's my shtick!
Shorry for shtealing your shtick!
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Haha good one. Funniest attorney I’ve never met!
What the difference between roadkill and a dead attorney in the road?
The roadkill has tire skid marks in front of it.
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On the mock drafts and Justin Lewis…
These early predictions usually underrepresent European ballers…
I think he doesn’t get drafted.
He definitely can sign a 2 way with some team.
.
Right now, Lewis is an undersized power forward, he will not be able to back NBA players down, small forwards have to shoot in the NBA, 16 percent from 3 does not do it. Secondly, which kills me watching him is that he never blocks out, hate that. I say he does not get drafted!
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Right now, Lewis is an undersized power forward, he will not be able to back NBA players down, small forwards have to shoot in the NBA, 16 percent from 3 does not do it. Secondly, which kills me watching him is that he never blocks out, hate that. I say he does not get drafted!
Just because he doesn't get drafted doesn't mean he can't cash checks playing overseas or sign a 2 way contract to play in G league and chase his dream. Just because he isn't ready to play minutes in the NBA doesn't mean he will be playing for Marquette next season.
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https://youtu.be/vikysx4xJpI
Thought I'd share this short feature on OMax.
He is going to be a really good player for Marquette. Finished his 1st year strong.
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in 2 years if everyone sticks around, when lewis is a senior we could be very very good with a transfer or two
This has become the motto of Marquette basketball the past 20 years. “If everyone sticks around and these young players who have yet to do anything somehow become good players, then we might be good two years from now.”
Yet they never all stick around and the players don’t get that much better.
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This has become the motto of Marquette basketball the past 20 years. “If everyone sticks around and these young players who have yet to do anything somehow become good players, then we might be good two years from now.”
Yet they never all stick around and the players don’t get that much better.
Were you crying when you typed this?
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Were you crying when you typed this?
Laughing actually
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Laughing actually
Laughingly, I agree with you. Most here are saying Justin will go pro (G-league, Europe, NBA) because of the money he can earn. The next MU player that has a decent season most here will say he will go pro for the money. Yeah, its great for the player, but not Marquette basketball if you want post season success. At this point another National Championship is pipe dream.
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Greg Elliott making his decision soon.
Not sure if Marquette is even on the table but we could use the open roster spot.
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Greg Elliott making his decision soon.
Not sure if Marquette is even on the table but we could use the open roster spot.
Actually...it wouldn't be an open roster spot. Greg would take a spot from either an incoming transfer or someone already committed. We are currently at 12, which goes to 11 if Justin is gone. Since he said it was his last game at Fiserv and Shaka said it was his last game with the team, I imagine his announcement will either be pro, into the transfer portal, or transferring and simultaneously announcing his destination.
As far as incoming...probably worth keeping an eye on Thursday. Signing day is Wednesday, but last year all the commits were supposed to be announced on April 14, which is "414 Day" in Milwaukee. Ellis accidentally posted his commit announcement, but most of the rest (Kolek, O-Max, Joplin, Itejere) came out within a few minutes of each other on 414 Day. I'm guessing we may see an announcement from Justin as well as an incoming name or two on Thursday.
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Believe Wrightsil official visit scheduled for Thurs
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Actually...it wouldn't be an open roster spot. Greg would take a spot from either an incoming transfer or someone already committed. We are currently at 12, which goes to 11 if Justin is gone. Since he said it was his last game at Fiserv and Shaka said it was his last game with the team, I imagine his announcement will either be pro, into the transfer portal, or transferring and simultaneously announcing his destination.
As far as incoming...probably worth keeping an eye on Thursday. Signing day is Wednesday, but last year all the commits were supposed to be announced on April 14, which is "414 Day" in Milwaukee. Ellis accidentally posted his commit announcement, but most of the rest (Kolek, O-Max, Joplin, Itejere) came out within a few minutes of each other on 414 Day. I'm guessing we may see an announcement from Justin as well as an incoming name or two on Thursday.
Wrightsil's visit is thursday. Also, the banquet is tonight.
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Greg Elliott making his decision soon.
Not sure if Marquette is even on the table but we could use the open roster spot.
I like Greg a lot. Hard-working young man who overcame several injuries to contribute big-time to a few exciting wins this season. Also seemed like a great guy to have on the team, always the first off the bench to cheer on his teammates. But his shot left him during the team's late fade, when we desperately needed a couple of players to make 3s. It wasn't his fault we lost, but he certainly wasn't part of the solution.
Like most others here, I'm hoping he moves on (and I think he will), and I wish him nothing but good fortune.
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Greg Elliott making his decision soon.
Not sure if Marquette is even on the table but we could use the open roster spot.
Adios, hey?
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Actually...it wouldn't be an open roster spot. Greg would take a spot from either an incoming transfer or someone already committed. We are currently at 12, which goes to 11 if Justin is gone. Since he said it was his last game at Fiserv and Shaka said it was his last game with the team, I imagine his announcement will either be pro, into the transfer portal, or transferring and simultaneously announcing his destination.
As far as incoming...probably worth keeping an eye on Thursday. Signing day is Wednesday, but last year all the commits were supposed to be announced on April 14, which is "414 Day" in Milwaukee. Ellis accidentally posted his commit announcement, but most of the rest (Kolek, O-Max, Joplin, Itejere) came out within a few minutes of each other on 414 Day. I'm guessing we may see an announcement from Justin as well as an incoming name or two on Thursday.
Justin's birthday tomorrow. Wouldn't surprise me to see him enter his name into the NBA Draft on his Birthday in some form or fashion, whether maintaining eligibility or not.
As far as Greg, I mostly meant I think we could benefit from him going elsewhere to have that roster spot available. He's awesome, but it seems like it's time.
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Laughingly, I agree with you. Most here are saying Justin will go pro (G-league, Europe, NBA) because of the money he can earn. The next MU player that has a decent season most here will say he will go pro for the money. Yeah, its great for the player, but not Marquette basketball if you want post season success. At this point another National Championship is pipe dream.
You realize that this impacts all teams equally right? All teams have to deal with their players potentially going pro early.
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You realize that this impacts all teams equally right? All teams have to deal with their players potentially going pro early.
....but will the impact be equal? St. Peters success was short lived. Sure the Coach left and the school is holding the short stick. So no it does not impact all teams equally whether they leave for the pros or the transfer portal. I doubt MU will suffer St. Peters fate but you never know.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/saint-peters-basketball-trio-enters-152402504.html
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....but will the impact be equal? St. Peters success was short lived. Sure the Coach left and the school is holding the short stick. So no it does not impact all teams equally whether they leave for the pros or the transfer portal. I doubt MU will suffer St. Peters fate but you never know.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/saint-peters-basketball-trio-enters-152402504.html
No the impact won't be equal. But since when do people care about equality in college sports?
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No the impact won't be equal. But since when do people care about equality in college sports?
So we agree.
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Laughingly, I agree with you. Most here are saying Justin will go pro (G-league, Europe, NBA) because of the money he can earn. The next MU player that has a decent season most here will say he will go pro for the money. Yeah, its great for the player, but not Marquette basketball if you want post season success. At this point another National Championship is pipe dream.
Regarding players with pro prospects, that's the case everywhere. Like Gary Parrish frequently says, it's when programs bring back that key borderline NBA talent (like Kansas did with Ochai Agbaji) that they have the chance to break through. If Lewis comes back, our ceiling is significantly higher. If not, it's lower. But I do think the reason this roster is being built like it is has the future of transfers in mind.
Guys like Kolek and O-Max should be here another 2-3 years. The freshman heavy class will be here. If someone blows up and goes early, that probably means team success helps fuel that early entry.
As far as another national title, it was also a pipe dream for Villanova in 2014. It's a pipe dream for us just like it is for everyone else in our league that isn't Villanova right now. Hell, Self is the first Kansas coach to EVER win two national titles, so maybe that one was a pipe dream. It's a pipe dream for everyone and stays that way until you hit the right combination of lightning in the bottle. You hope to get the right coach in place and give them time and enough kicks at the can to break through. We'll see if that works for us, but it's a pipe dream everywhere.
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....but will the impact be equal? St. Peters success was short lived. Sure the Coach left and the school is holding the short stick. So no it does not impact all teams equally whether they leave for the pros or the transfer portal. I doubt MU will suffer St. Peters fate but you never know.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/saint-peters-basketball-trio-enters-152402504.html
1. Marquette is not St. Peter's
2. You were talking about player's going pro early, not the transfer portal, two very different beasts
3. Whether you are talking about the transfer portal or players going pro early, the programs are just as unequal as they were before. Nothing has changed. If schools like Baylor and Villanova can win national titles, then so can schools like Marquette. Doesn't mean they will but players going pro or transferring won't be what holds them back.
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As far as another national title, it was also a pipe dream for Villanova in 2014. It's a pipe dream for us just like it is for everyone else in our league that isn't Villanova right now.
Yep. And yep.
For example, I think if we threw a question to the board about whether MU or UConn is closer to big-time success, many (most?) would say UConn.
But why? Hurley has proven nothing; one could easily argue that, looking at their overall bodies of work, Shaka has proven far more. But none of that matters because it's the past, and only the future means anything. And none of us knows what the future holds for Marquette or UConn. Or even for Villanova, for that matter.
I choose to believe that Shaka is steering Marquette in the right direction until he proves otherwise. Others are free to believe that Marquette basketball is forever doomed to mediocrity, if that's what makes them "happy."
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Having big-time basketball success is a lot harder now than it used to be simply because there are a lot more really good players spread out among teams. You used to be able to dominate with two stars and three solid role players and MU has had many teams like that over the years. (1977, for example.) But that doesn't quite get you there now unless the two stars are really something. These days, the stars have to be brighter and the role players have to be a lot better - and you have to have some luck along the way. (Of course, I am overlooking Ja Morant and his Murray State team, but a Ja Morant does not come along very often.)
If Lewis does return, which I seriously doubt, the team will certainly be better. The question is whether he is ready to put the team on his back and take them into battle. I have not seen that kind of personality from Justin yet, but this is the year to show it if he returns.
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Having big-time basketball success is a lot harder now than it used to be simply because there are a lot more really good players spread out among teams. You used to be able to dominate with two stars and three solid role players and MU has had many teams like that over the years. (1977, for example.) But that doesn't quite get you there now unless the two stars are really something. These days, the stars have to be brighter and the role players have to be a lot better - and you have to have some luck along the way. (Of course, I am overlooking Ja Morant and his Murray State team, but a Ja Morant does not come along very often.)
If Lewis does return, which I seriously doubt, the team will certainly be better. The question is whether he is ready to put the team on his back and take them into battle. I have not seen that kind of personality from Justin yet, but this is the year to show it if he returns.
What do you mean you haven't seen it?
He literally was just 1st Team All Big East in his first season starting in the Big East.
Swept Nova with him as the leader. Went into Seton Hall and swept them on the back of a 30+ point performance. How have you not seen it? Were your eyes open?
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1. Marquette is not St. Peter's
2. You were talking about player's going pro early, not the transfer portal, two very different beasts
3. Whether you are talking about the transfer portal or players going pro early, the programs are just as unequal as they were before. Nothing has changed. If schools like Baylor and Villanova can win national titles, then so can schools like Marquette. Doesn't mean they will but players going pro or transferring won't be what holds them back.
No they aren’t. St Peters actually has won an NCAA tournament game in recent history. Last time Marquette won in the tourney Obama was President.
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No they aren’t. St Peters actually has won an NCAA tournament game in recent history. Last time Marquette won in the tourney Obama was President.
Ok you had to be crying when you typed this one.
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April 14, which is "414 Day" in Milwaukee
Never would have pegged Shaka as a Burt Gummer fan.
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So we agree.
Why should the impact be equal? Has it been equal for Duke or Kentucky who lose guys after one year on a regular basis. And even then, there is no quantifiable way to even know if it helps or hurts for guys to leave early. If there weren't 5 or 6 guys going pro from Duke, how would they even be able to recruit 6 top 50 guys?
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https://youtu.be/vikysx4xJpI
Thought I'd share this short feature on OMax.
He is going to be a really good player for Marquette. Finished his 1st year strong.
Thanks for sharing. What a great kid, with a great a spirit and great upside. Think he has serious NBA potential. Expecting a big jump next season for O-Max.
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Thanks for sharing. What a great kid, with a great a spirit and great upside. Think he has serious NBA potential. Expecting a big jump next season for O-Max.
Thanks for posting. Great video. He's lucky to have a wonderful family, and he seems to have a terrific attitude.
I got a kick out of his own parents calling him O-Max.
We'll need the max out of O-Max next season!
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I am looking forward to next year. i will enjoy the team, if we are winning. I will enjoy the melt down on MUScoop, if we are losing.
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I am looking forward to next year. i will enjoy the team, if we are winning. I will enjoy the melt down on MUScoop, if we are losing.
I mean, you get the meltdown either way. They could go 37-2 and win the national title and plenty of posters would relitigate the two losses for the next decade
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I mean, you get the meltdown either way. They could go 37-2 and win the national title and plenty of posters would relitigate the two losses for the next decade
Well Shaka did make some unthinkable decisions in those two losses.
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Well Shaka did make some unthinkable decisions in those two losses.
Both of which were to Creighton on last second three point shots.
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Both of which were to Creighton on last second three point shots.
Soo we'll lose twice to Creighton on our Natty run? I'll take it brother dgies
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"Well Shaka did make some unthinkable decisions in those two losses."
Anyone who has ever coached any team knows: A win is always credited to the players. A loss is always the fault of the coach.
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Soo we'll lose twice to Creighton on our Natty run? I'll take it brother dgies
But one of those losses cost him the Big East Tournament title, so clearly a less than perfect season. And we still won't have played in a Big East final.
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As it stands this very moment in time I think the depth chart is as follows:
Kolek/S. Jones/Ellis
K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Ross
Joplin/Gold/Itejere
Ighodaro
There are 2 spots available and Wrightsil seems to be on the verge of taking 1 of those 2 spots. Pure speculation, but the hope seems to be
Kolek/S. Jones
Ramey/K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Joplin/Ross
Wrightsil/Gold/Itejere
Washington/Ighodaro
Update: Wrightsil and the official MarquetteMBB account now follow each other on Instagram. Seems like he's all but decided on his future. Probably just waiting for his visit tomorrow to confirm his thoughts.
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Kolek/S. Jones
Ramey/K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Joplin/Ross
Wrightsil/Gold/Itejere
Washington/Ighodaro
Update: Wrightsil and the official MarquetteMBB account now follow each other on Instagram. Seems like he's all but decided on his future. Probably just waiting for his visit tomorrow to confirm his thoughts.
Is the Ellis omission intentional?
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Is the Ellis omission intentional?
For that roster to be possible there would need to be 1 transfer and he was just the most obvious potential transfer should Ramey, Wrightsil, and Washington all be real commits (which probably isn't likely).
Ellis was just buried last year on the depth chart and seems to be sliding further down with the additions of Jones and Ross. He may very well stay with Marquette but with that proposed lineup, someone had to be removed. I think Wrightsil and Washington are the 2 biggest targets with Ramey being more of a hope to complete the retool.
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As it stands this very moment in time I think the depth chart is as follows:
Kolek/S. Jones/Ellis
K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Ross
Joplin/Gold/Itejere
Ighodaro
There are 2 spots available and Wrightsil seems to be on the verge of taking 1 of those 2 spots. Pure speculation, but the hope seems to be
Kolek/S. Jones
Ramey/K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Joplin/Ross
Wrightsil/Gold/Itejere
Washington/Ighodaro
Update: Wrightsil and the official MarquetteMBB account now follow each other on Instagram. Seems like he's all but decided on his future. Probably just waiting for his visit tomorrow to confirm his thoughts.
Haven't been following too closely lately, who is Wrightsil?
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Haven't been following too closely lately, who is Wrightsil?
Zach Wrightsil 6-6 F
NAIA POY
Visiting 4/14
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Zach Wrightsil 6-6 F
NAIA POY
Visiting 4/14
Thanks.
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Thanks.
https://youtu.be/PrPAjBg6Y0I
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Why is it assumed that Ellis will be behind Ross and Jones? I don’t expect him to be a world beater, but I expect him to be remain here and contribute next year.
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Why is it assumed that Ellis will be behind Ross and Jones? I don’t expect him to be a world beater, but I expect him to be remain here and contribute next year.
I dont think it's a guarantee he'll be behind Ross, but it's a possibility.
Jones is a lock to be the backup PG and depending on what happens with the rest of the roster could end up seeing some starts and/or starters minutes. He's much more advanced in all aspects to that of Ellis.
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And this conclusion is based of high school highlight videos correct?
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And this conclusion is based of high school highlight videos correct?
Somewhat but also not really.
Results go out the window when analyzing a high schooler about to make the jump to College. It has everything to do with skillset and what they bring to the table.
Jones is a better scorer, he's faster, he's more athletic, has better on ball defending skills, and because of those 1st three traits a better playmaker.
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Somewhat but also not really.
Results go out the window when analyzing a high schooler about to make the jump to College. It has everything to do with skillset and what they bring to the table.
Jones is a better scorer, he's faster, he's more athletic, has better on ball defending skills, and because of those 1st three traits a better playmaker.
Once again, how are you drawing these conclusions? Have you seen extensive full games of Jones content or just mixtapes and highlight videos? Because I’m fairly certain that I could find highlight video where Ellis looks great too.
If some “is a lock” I feel like one anonymous analysis isn’t really sufficient. The known facts are that Ellis is taller, stronger, has more D1 experience, has more experience in Shaka’s system, and has better chemistry with the current players than Jones does. To say that Jones is still a lock to be ahead of him as a Freshman just based on perceived skill set is a bit of a stretch IMO.
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Once again, how are you drawing these conclusions? Have you seen extensive full games of Jones content or just mixtapes and highlight videos? Because I’m fairly certain that I could find highlight video where Ellis looks great too.
If some “is a lock” I feel like one anonymous analysis isn’t really sufficient. The known facts are that Ellis is taller, stronger, has more D1 experience, has more experience in Shaka’s system, and has better chemistry with the current players than Jones does. To say that Jones is still a lock to be ahead of him as a Freshman just based on perceived skill set is a bit of a stretch IMO.
Jones is most definitely stronger as well, so you are wrong there. Ellis could develop, but in terms of where they are right now I don't think it's close.
Also Ellis is likely more of a combo guard and was always going to be a work in progress with a lot of potential. His other offers outside of Texas where Shaka was initially were Bryant, UW-Milwaukee and Louisiana Tech.
Jones is a true PG and more advance at this point in time.
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I dont think it's a guarantee he'll be behind Ross, but it's a possibility.
Jones is a lock to be the backup PG and depending on what happens with the rest of the roster could end up seeing some starts and/or starters minutes. He's much more advanced in all aspects to that of Ellis.
Jones is a "lock" to be backup PG over a guy who is bigger, has a year in college and the system under his belt, gained the trust of the staff and team down the stretch, and was a more highly regarded recruit a year ago? (aka Stevie Mitchell)
Hmmm. Time will tell, I suppose.
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So you’re just not going to answer my question? Have you seen Jones play a full game in person or have you only seen YouTube highlights of him?
The Scoop has a history of way overrating incoming freshman before they take a step on campus and underrating the natural year to year progression that players take once they’ve arrived. I’m just trying to figure out if that’s what you’re doing.
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So you’re just not going to answer my question? Have you seen Jones play a full game in person or have you only seen YouTube highlights of him?
The Scoop has a history of way overrating incoming freshman before they take a step on campus and underrating the natural year to year progression that players take once they’ve arrived. I’m just trying to figure out if that’s what you’re doing.
I haven't seen much for "highlights" on either player.
I've seen full games of Sean Jones and seen Ellis play in person.
Jones is more advanced as a PG. Ellis may have a high upside but it probably isn't as a PG, especially with how this roster is constructed.
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OFFICIAL: International Standout Ben Gold Signs With Marquette, New Zealand native joins MU from NBA Global Academy
The Marquette University men's basketball team has signed Ben Gold (Wellington, New Zealand/NBA Global Academy) to a National Letter of Intent, head coach Shaka Smart announced Wednesday morning.
Gold (6-11, 220 pounds) will arrive on campus this spring and have four seasons of eligibility with the Golden Eagles.
The Wellington, New Zealand native was the first Kiwi selected to the NBA Global Academy in Canberra, Australia and is the academy's first product from New Zealand to sign with a NCAA Division I program. Gold traveled to Las Vegas in 2021 with NBA Academy Latin America to compete against the top prep teams in the nation at the Tarkanian Classic and the G League Showcase. He finished with 22 points and eight rebounds in just 25 minutes at the showcase in a matchup against NBA Academy Africa to conclude the trip.
Gold played for Basketball New Zealand at the FIBA Basketball World Cub Qualifiers in Manila, Philippines, in late February of 2022. He also represented his country at the U15, U16 and U17 levels, including the FIBA U15 Oceania Championships in 2018.
Gold also led Wellington Basketball to the U17 Aon National Championship in 2018 and was named to the all-tourney squad in 2019.
Current Marquette player Olivier-Maxence is also a product of the NBA Academy Latin America program. NBA Academy is a year-round elite basketball development program that provides top high school-age athletes from outside the U.S. with a holistic approach to player development and a predictable pathway to maximize their potential.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1514270317794975745?t=zmcb15xy7ZVYp0McnNJODA&s=19
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I haven't seen much for "highlights" on either player.
I've seen full games of Sean Jones and seen Ellis play in person.
Jones is more advanced as a PG. Ellis may have a high upside but it probably isn't as a PG, especially with how this roster is constructed.
Forgive me for still being hesitant. I’ve seen way to many players overhyped before they play a minute of D1 ball.
I’ll still continue to prefer the 6’-5” player with experience over the 5’-10” player without it, especially in the Beast.
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Forgive me for still being hesitant. I’ve seen way to many players overhyped before they play a minute of D1 ball.
I’ll still continue to prefer the 6’-5” player with experience over the 5’-10” player without it, especially in the Beast.
Jones is listed at 6'0" (but is probably actually 5'10"). However, barring some impressive offseason work by Ellis, I'm pretty confident then when they get measured for the official roster, Jones will be heavier than Ellis. Dude is built like a running back.
I've watched a few full games of Jones. I like him a lot and if Ellis were to not improve over the offseason, I would definitely pick Jones ahead of him on the depth chart. However, the staff has consistently said that Ellis has NBA level upside but needs to time to get there. If the staff isn't blowing smoke, I could see Ellis making a significant jump.
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Forgive me for still being hesitant. I’ve seen way to many players overhyped before they play a minute of D1 ball.
I’ll still continue to prefer the 6’-5” player with experience over the 5’-10” player without it, especially in the Beast.
You have the right to you're own opinion.
Last point, Ellis doesn't really have much experience. EE played 27 total Big East minutes.
9 of which came against Creighton in a game Kam missed with COVID. 11 in 2 wins against Georgetown, 5 in a 30+ point blowout of Providence, and the other 2 in a comfortable win against DePaul.
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When are people gonna transfer out? Like at least Greg is leaving, dude should probably enter the portal at some point.
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Jones is listed at 6'0" (but is probably actually 5'10"). However, barring some impressive offseason work by Ellis, I'm pretty confident then when they get measured for the official roster, Jones will be heavier than Ellis. Dude is built like a running back.
I've watched a few full games of Jones. I like him a lot and if Ellis were to not improve over the offseason, I would definitely pick Jones ahead of him on the depth chart. However, the staff has consistently said that Ellis has NBA level upside but needs to time to get there. If the staff isn't blowing smoke, I could see Ellis making a significant jump.
So what you’re saying is that neither should “be a lock” to be ahead of the other come November?
Am I the only one that remembers how as a top 35 recruit, JJJ was going to be the next big time player, until he averaged 4 ppg his freshman year? Or how Harry Froling was going to be a difference maker, for one game against Gtown. Or how Chartouny was the can’t miss transfer because he was exactly what we needed and would be the missing piece? Let’s actually let these guys play a game before we start anointing them.
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You have the right to you're own opinion.
Last point, Ellis doesn't really have much experience. EE played 27 total Big East minutes.
9 of which came against Creighton in a game Kam missed with COVID. 11 in 2 wins against Georgetown, 5 in a 30+ point blowout of Providence, and the other 2 in a comfortable win against DePaul.
He had a year practicing with Darryl everyday and working with Todd Smith everyday. Unless you think the only experience come from actual game time, in which case I would be wondering what you think Keeyan was doing all last year.
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He had a year practicing with Darryl everyday and working with Todd Smith everyday. Unless you think the only experience come from actual game time, in which case I would be wondering what you think Keeyan was doing all last year.
Practicing against Darryl this past season isn't going to do much for Ellis in a season that starts 7 months from now. It's a nice thought but at the end of the day doesn't mean a whole lot.
Jones already has a more college ready body than Ellis and will get a few months with Todd Smith before the season starts.
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So what you’re saying is that neither should “be a lock” to be ahead of the other come November?
Am I the only one that remembers how as a top 35 recruit, JJJ was going to be the next big time player, until he averaged 4 ppg his freshman year? Or how Harry Froling was going to be a difference maker, for one game against Gtown. Or how Chartouny was the can’t miss transfer because he was exactly what we needed and would be the missing piece? Let’s actually let these guys play a game before we start anointing them.
I'm sorry, did I anoint somebody and miss it?
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Practicing against Darryl this past season isn't going to do much for Ellis in a season that starts 7 months from now. It's a nice thought but at the end of the day doesn't mean a whole lot.
Jones already has a more college ready body than Ellis and will get a few months with Todd Smith before the season starts.
If you don’t think working with a guard like Darryl everyday and having an extra full year lifting weights is gonna make a difference, then you really don’t understand the game.
I would love to be wrong and have Jones be an immediate impact player, I’m just wondering when the last time we had someone this small and this lowly ranked come in and have the type of effect that you’re describing?
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I'm sorry, did I anoint somebody and miss it?
You didn’t. Others have done so in the past, and it didn’t exactly always work out.
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He had a year practicing with Darryl everyday and working with Todd Smith everyday. Unless you think the only experience come from actual game time, in which case I would be wondering what you think Keeyan was doing all last year.
Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.
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Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.
Todd Smith is the face of it, but it comes down to the differences between a collegiate level strength and conditioning program with the resources that we provide and invest, versus a high school level program.
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You didn’t. Others have done so in the past, and it didn’t exactly always work out.
Okay, so would you not like us to discuss and make predictions about next season's depth chart during the offseason on this, a Marquette basketball fan forum? I'm not seeing what the issue is here.
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Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.
Its just a meme. Guy is nothing special.
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If you don’t think working with a guard like Darryl everyday and having an extra full year lifting weights is gonna make a difference, then you really don’t understand the game.
I would love to be wrong and have Jones be an immediate impact player, I’m just wondering when the last time we had someone this small and this lowly ranked come in and have the type of effect that you’re describing?
Lowly ranked?
Jones is in the ESPN Top 100 and was the Ohio Player of the Year.
Why must every player be compared to someone from the past?
Sean Jones is Sean Jones and he is really talented.
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As it stands this very moment in time I think the depth chart is as follows:
Kolek/S. Jones/Ellis
K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Ross
Joplin/Gold/Itejere
Ighodaro
There are 2 spots available and Wrightsil seems to be on the verge of taking 1 of those 2 spots. Pure speculation, but the hope seems to be
Kolek/S. Jones
Ramey/K. Jones/Mitchell
Prosper/Joplin/Ross
Wrightsil/Gold/Itejere
Washington/Ighodaro
Update: Wrightsil and the official MarquetteMBB account now follow each other on Instagram. Seems like he's all but decided on his future. Probably just waiting for his visit tomorrow to confirm his thoughts.
i’m not down with Kolek. I prefer Mitchell from what he showed late season.
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Okay, so would you not like us to discuss and make predictions about next season's depth chart during the offseason on this, a Marquette basketball fan forum? I'm not seeing what the issue is here.
There's no issue, I just: one, prefer to temper expectations about incoming freshman, and two, ask for sample size and level of competition that we're basing those expectations off of. See below.
And this conclusion is based of high school highlight videos correct?
Have you seen Jones play a full game in person or have you only seen YouTube highlights of him?
Once again, how are you drawing these conclusions? Have you seen extensive full games of Jones content or just mixtapes and highlight videos?
Given the extensive history of overvaluing a player before he ever suits up for us, I don't think that's a huge thing to ask for.
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Lowly ranked?
Jones is in the ESPN Top 100 and was the Ohio Player of the Year.
Why must every player be compared to someone from the past?
Sean Jones is Sean Jones and he is really talented.
ESPN rankings are garbage. 247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked. Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.
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See below.
I mean...TAMU literally already answered this, so I'm not sure why you keep belaboring the same point.
I've watched a few full games of Jones. I like him a lot and if Ellis were to not improve over the offseason, I would definitely pick Jones ahead of him on the depth chart.
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I mean...TAMU literally already answered this, so I'm not sure why you keep belaboring the same point.
I kept on it because GEE03 didn't answer until I asked it three times. Once TAMU responded all I did was say that neither should be a shoo in to be ahead of the other. Using the word "anoint" was probably a bit strong, but at times, we have all fallen victim of thinking a player is going to be a lot better for MU than they turn out to be. I'm just trying to prevent that from happening, because, if Jones doesn't turn out to be the high impact player that GUE03 thinks, I can confidently say that Jones will get torn apart here.
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ESPN rankings are garbage. 247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked. Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.
In the way we would have?
That is a hilarious statement. We didn't beat them out for their services so who cares. You can win without players who are recruited by Blue Bloods. See the transfer portal for Mid Majors all over leaving to Blue Bloods who now want them for evidence.
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In the way we would have?
That is a hilarious statement. We didn't beat them out for their services so who cares. You can win without players who are recruited by Blue Bloods. See the transfer portal for Mid Majors all over leaving to Blue Bloods who now want them for evidence.
As upperclassmen. You said that Jones was a lock to be ahead of Ellis next year as a true Freshman. JR Jones may end up being better than SR Ellis, but I have a hard time believing that will be the case from day one.
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ESPN rankings are garbage. 247 has him 138, and Rivals has him unranked. Further, looking at the other schools that offered, there's a couple high major programs out there, but it's not exactly like we beat out the Blue Bloods the way we would have done for a Grimes, Mannion, etc.
Houston wanted Jones. Offered him. The team Grimes actually played well at. A back to back top 5 program.
Arizona was not a Blue Blood under Sean miller.
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I kept on it because GEE03 didn't answer until I asked it three times. Once TAMU responded all I did was say that neither should be a shoo in to be ahead of the other. Using the word "anoint" was probably a bit strong, but at times, we have all fallen victim of thinking a player is going to be a lot better for MU than they turn out to be. I'm just trying to prevent that from happening, because, if Jones doesn't turn out to be the high impact player that GUE03 thinks, I can confidently say that Jones will get torn apart here.
Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).
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Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).
The difference of course being that the more you hype them the harder and faster you turn on them. The Sy commitment out of high school kind of came out of the blue so he didn't have a lot of opportunity to get hyped up. IMO he didn't get ripped nearly as hard as Dex, who got hyped up to no end following a summer report from a former NBA player. If we get 4 years of Derrick like production from Jones, he will deservedly get criticized. If we expect him to contribute from day one, and he doesn't, he will get criticized much quicker and much harsher.
Edit: also, apologies to TAMU, he originally gave a much more reasoned analysis than my response probably merited.
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Well, you chose TAMU to quote so it seemed like that's who you were addressing. And Scoop will tear guys apart regardless of their hype or lack thereof. We didn't tear Froling apart because Bilas hyped him and he disappointed or because Wojo completely changed Chartouny's role here vs Fordham and it didn't suit his game, they were torn apart because they didn't deliver. Just like John Dawson or Jose Perez, who came in with relatively low expectations, got torn apart when they weren't very good (aside from one Georgetown game).
Not to mention you won't see me tear apart any player ever. Even if a player doesn't work out you won't find me ripping into them.
I've always been under the belief that if you chose to play for my team I will back you until you're gone at the very least.
As I noted, Ellis could wind up being a good player for MU. As it stands right now I can't see anyway he is playing Point Guard ahead of Jones.
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I really like Ellis's potential. He is quick and he just needs strength and playing time.
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The difference of course being that the more you hype them the harder and faster you turn on them. The Sy commitment out of high school kind of came out of the blue so he didn't have a lot of opportunity to get hyped up. IMO he didn't get ripped nearly as hard as Dex, who got hyped up to no end following a summer report from a former NBA player. If we get 4 years of Derrick like production from Jones, he will deservedly get criticized. If we expect him to contribute from day one, and he doesn't, he will get criticized much quicker and much harsher.
Edit: also, apologies to TAMU, he originally gave a much more reasoned analysis than my response probably merited.
If the team produces, I don't think it will matter much. Derrick Wilson didn't get criticized when he was a bench player whose greatest notoriety came from killing Wisconsin one game and being Junior's backup in the rest of them, it came when he had to take the starting role for two teams that didn't make the tournament. Sy took less criticism as a freshman on a (would've been) tourney team than when we needed him to be a rotation guard and he couldn't provide stability alongside McEwen and Carton. You mentioned Froling, I'm not convinced it was the overhype more than it was that team missing the tournament while he became less and less influential as the season went on.
Does anyone have any lingering antipathy over Jamal Ferguson, Ed Morrow, or Joe Fulce? None of them delivered on what were at one point big expectations, but all of them were on teams that had success even when their roles were minimized. If Jones plays on a winner, we'll be fine with him even if he's the 11th man in an 8-man rotation. If we miss the tourney the next two years, he'll likely be ripped, along with the rest of the team. Ultimately, results matter.
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If the team produces, I don't think it will matter much. Derrick Wilson didn't get criticized when he was a bench player whose greatest notoriety came from killing Wisconsin one game and being Junior's backup in the rest of them, it came when he had to take the starting role for two teams that didn't make the tournament. Sy took less criticism as a freshman on a (would've been) tourney team than when we needed him to be a rotation guard and he couldn't provide stability alongside McEwen and Carton. You mentioned Froling, I'm not convinced it was the overhype more than it was that team missing the tournament while he became less and less influential as the season went on.
Does anyone have any lingering antipathy over Jamal Ferguson, Ed Morrow, or Joe Fulce? None of them delivered on what were at one point big expectations, but all of them were on teams that had success even when their roles were minimized. If Jones plays on a winner, we'll be fine with him even if he's the 11th man in an 8-man rotation. If we miss the tourney the next two years, he'll likely be ripped, along with the rest of the team. Ultimately, results matter.
Which big man had more hype surrounding them entering the 18-19 season, Ed, or Joey?
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Can someone explain to me all of the manlove for Todd Smith? I dont really see out strength and conditioning better than any other Big East team.
Remember a couple years ago when we were recruiting some stud (can't remember which one) and guru excitedly began a post with, "This is not a drill!" He was all giddy because Smith started following the kid, and that supposedly meant the kid was coming to Marquette. (P.S.: He didn't.) Good times!
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Which big man had more hype surrounding them entering the 18-19 season, Ed, or Joey?
Joey was hyped, but Morrow was that perfect fit guy. The enforcer who could rebound (something we didn't do in 2018) and add toughness. But instead he was just a backup who never did much aside from blocking Ethan Happ and left in the middle of his second year. Had those teams been as bad as Wojo's average, he'd have been skewered, but they were Wojo's best years, so we focus more on the Hausers because of how they left and Ed gets a pass.
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I really like Ellis's potential. He is quick and he just needs strength and playing time.
Me too. I find myself pulling for Ellis to emerge more than almost any of last year's new guys.
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Joey was hyped, but Morrow was that perfect fit guy. The enforcer who could rebound (something we didn't do in 2018) and add toughness. But instead he was just a backup who never did much aside from blocking Ethan Happ and left in the middle of his second year. Had those teams been as bad as Wojo's average, he'd have been skewered, but they were Wojo's best years, so we focus more on the Hausers because of how they left and Ed gets a pass.
Don't get me wrong, team success plays a factor, but hype and expectations also do. I guess my fear is that if Jones or Ross don't have a great year next year, which I hope isn't the case, people don't jump on the "well, I heard last summer that this guy was going to be so good and he sucked" train, and then just proceed to overhype whatever recruit we may have coming in the following year.
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Don't get me wrong, team success plays a factor, but hype and expectations also do. I guess my fear is that if Jones or Ross don't have a great year next year, which I hope isn't the case, people don't jump on the "well, I heard last summer that this guy was going to be so good and he sucked" train, and then just proceed to overhype whatever recruit we may have coming in the following year.
I admire your intent, but you cannot possibly prevent this from happening.
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I admire your intent, but you cannot possibly prevent this from happening.
Prevent it altogether? No. Lessen it? I don't see why not.
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no one should ever get excited about any player because you’ll inevitably be let down in some capacity.
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no one should ever get excited about any player because you’ll inevitably be let down in some capacity.
Can't believe Michael Jordan didn't win 7 titles.
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Don't get me wrong, team success plays a factor, but hype and expectations also do. I guess my fear is that if Jones or Ross don't have a great year next year, which I hope isn't the case, people don't jump on the "well, I heard last summer that this guy was going to be so good and he sucked" train, and then just proceed to overhype whatever recruit we may have coming in the following year.
I think it's an odd thing to get too wrapped up in. If we're bad, my guess is a lot more criticism will go toward the experienced players, like how this year people seemed to aim criticisms at Kur, Justin, Morsell, and Kolek rather than much at Joplin or Ellis. Next year, I imagine O-Max, Kolek, and Oso are more likely to be the criticism targets than Sean or Chase.
It's the nature of coaches and fans to hype up players. You hope for the best and hope the flashes players show translate to consistent results on the court. I don't think that will ever change.
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I think it's an odd thing to get too wrapped up in. If we're bad, my guess is a lot more criticism will go toward the experienced players, like how this year people seemed to aim criticisms at Kur, Justin, Morsell, and Kolek rather than much at Joplin or Ellis. Next year, I imagine O-Max, Kolek, and Oso are more likely to be the criticism targets than Sean or Chase.
It's the nature of coaches and fans to hype up players. You hope for the best and hope the flashes players show translate to consistent results on the court. I don't think that will ever change.
Maybe, I just know that Joey had been hyped up since the day we started recruiting Sam, and even before Hausergate happened, he was experiencing a fair amount of abuse. Vander was skewered pretty good as a 5* recruit that only averaged 5 ppg and 16% three point shooting as a freshman. Hasn't pretty much every grad transfer been considered a wasted scholarship at some point between November and January, and we usually spend all summer hyping them up. My point is, that high school to college, or even one college to another is a big adjustment, and just because a player may have a longer adjustment period than others should not be a reason to dismiss them, and there seems to be a pretty strong correlation between pre freshman year hype and freshman year abuse received.
(Not pointing fingers at you or anyone in particular here BTW).
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Maybe, I just know that Joey had been hyped up since the day we started recruiting Sam, and even before Hausergate happened, he was experiencing a fair amount of abuse. Vander was skewered pretty good as a 5* recruit that only averaged 5 ppg and 16% three point shooting as a freshman. Hasn't pretty much every grad transfer been considered a wasted scholarship at some point between November and January, and we usually spend all summer hyping them up. My point is, that high school to college, or even one college to another is a big adjustment, and just because a player may have a longer adjustment period than others should not be a reason to dismiss them, and there seems to be a pretty strong correlation between pre freshman year hype and freshman year abuse received.
(Not pointing fingers at you or anyone in particular here BTW).
I don’t remember much “abuse” of Vanilla Soft Serve on Scoop during his freshman year - at least not until near the very end when he became a turnover machine - but it’s possible I’m misremembering.
Vander never got much respect, though, at least not till the very end.
We’re not a patient group. Lots of condemnation of guys like Lockett, Reinhardt and even O-Max this season when they struggled early. And none of them had been exactly hyped up to the max.
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i’m not down with Kolek. I prefer Mitchell from what he showed late season.
until he shows some offense or koleks passing abilty hell nah
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until he shows some offense or koleks passing abilty hell nah
Well, he has to improve in both areas to be the long term answer at point. He was pretty bad by the end of the year. Not saying that Mitchell is the answer, but someone else might have to be.
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Hell, last year I suspected Ellis would be a player and Kam was a hanger-on. Vice versa of course.
For next year, I think Stevie will put in the work and surprise people. No inside knowledge, just based on the kind of kid he is and his track record.
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I think Stevie will have a bigger impact on the program than Kam when all is said and done.
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Fluff
I think Stevie is going to have a big impact as well. That said, I am very high on Kam and think he is going to have a very good college career.
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Whose buying season tickets next year?
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Whose buying season tickets next year?
No me ;D
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Dr. B
I am planning on rejoining the season ticket group this season.
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Shaka took a roster that on paper had no business making the NIT and led them to a 9 seed. Assuming we land Wrightsil and a Washington level transfer and lose no one else (assuming Justin is gone), next year's roster will be better on paper than last year's was before the season started. I expect another overperformance. Somewhere in the 5-8 seed realm. Coaching matters.
Year 1 saw huge developmental jumps for Lewis, Morsell, OMax, Oso, and Kolek. Kam played way above his high school ranking. Kur and Greg were about the same players they were the previous season and Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis roughly played to their high school rankings with Mitchell/Joplin occasionally showing promise and Ellis largely underperforming.
No reason not to expect similar developmental jumps this season and at least one of the four freshmen (including Itejere) to play well above their ranking. It may not happen but the baseline has been set.
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TAMU
Good summary and I agree that next year’s team will be better on paper going into the season. In addition, I think all returning guys are athletic basketball players, and not just athletic which bodes well for offseason improvement. In years past, the roster was not filled with guys that were basketball players first. While I was not a Theo guy, he improved a great deal over his time at MU, but his ceiling was lower than the current guys returning.
As for coaching matters, I could not agree more. A second year of Shaka with the core should pay dividends this year and next year.
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Shaka took a roster that on paper had no business making the NIT and led them to a 9 seed. Assuming we land Wrightsil and a Washington level transfer and lose no one else (assuming Justin is gone), next year's roster will be better on paper than last year's was before the season started. I expect another overperformance. Somewhere in the 5-8 seed realm. Coaching matters.
Year 1 saw huge developmental jumps for Lewis, Morsell, OMax, Oso, and Kolek. Kam played way above his high school ranking. Kur and Greg were about the same players they were the previous season and Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis roughly played to their high school rankings with Mitchell/Joplin occasionally showing promise and Ellis largely underperforming.
No reason not to expect similar developmental jumps this season and at least one of the four freshmen (including Itejere) to play well above their ranking. It may not happen but the baseline has been set.
Jones was better than advertised for a Freshman
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Shaka took a roster that on paper had no business making the NIT and led them to a 9 seed. Assuming we land Wrightsil and a Washington level transfer and lose no one else (assuming Justin is gone), next year's roster will be better on paper than last year's was before the season started. I expect another overperformance. Somewhere in the 5-8 seed realm. Coaching matters.
Year 1 saw huge developmental jumps for Lewis, Morsell, OMax, Oso, and Kolek. Kam played way above his high school ranking. Kur and Greg were about the same players they were the previous season and Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis roughly played to their high school rankings with Mitchell/Joplin occasionally showing promise and Ellis largely underperforming.
No reason not to expect similar developmental jumps this season and at least one of the four freshmen (including Itejere) to play well above their ranking. It may not happen but the baseline has been set.
are you saying that the team isn’t bad…not great, but not bad, but w/over-performance (again) and with your confidence in Shaka as a coach, MU should be a 5-8? On the other side, without over performing, is MU still a ncaa tourney team (9-12 seed) or more likely NIT?
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Overperforming is the operative concept. How much improvement and development is it reasonable to expect.?
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Kolek/Jones
Jones/Mitchell/Ellis
Prosper/Ross
Wrightsil/Joplin/Itejere
Ighodaro/Gold
That's where we stand as of right now. Warren Washington would be a nice addition, but I'm also looking at the guards and noticing we don't have a veteran bucket getter. Still think Washington is probably the primary target but it wouldn't surprise me to see them pivot to a veteran scorer at the guard spot.
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A year ago, the 21-22 team didn't have a veteran bucket getter, either. I am worried more about the rebounding.
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Kolek/Jones
Jones/Mitchell/Ellis
Prosper/Ross
Wrightsil/Joplin/Itejere
Ighodaro/Gold
That's where we stand as of right now. Warren Washington would be a nice addition, but I'm also looking at the guards and noticing we don't have a veteran bucket getter. Still think Washington is probably the primary target but it wouldn't surprise me to see them pivot to a veteran scorer at the guard spot.
Adding Washington would go a long way towards making me feel better about next year. I think that, realistically, as it stands, we're a solid team and probably on or around the bubble. Washington, due to his strengths and our current weaknesses, would go a long way towards improving us
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Adding Washington would go a long way towards making me feel better about next year. I think that, realistically, as it stands, we're a solid team and probably on or around the bubble. Washington, due to his strengths and our current weaknesses, would go a long way towards improving us
100%
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Warren Washington would be a nice addition, but I'm also looking at the guards and noticing we don't have a veteran bucket getter. Still think Washington is probably the primary target but it wouldn't surprise me to see them pivot to a veteran scorer at the guard spot.
Yep. If Shaka isn't gonna recruit over anybody (and therefore won't sign both Washington and a scoring guard), he can see if he lands Washington and then pivot as you say. I just looked at The Athletic's long article about all the available transfers, and it was filled with veteran scoring guards.
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I think we land a grad transfer guard to replace Morsell.
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Bulls Head Coach Billy Donovan ended his pregame press conference before their game against the Bucks praising Shaka Smart for the direction he is taking Marquette. Shaka was an assistant for Donovan at Florida. That was pretty cool.
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Bulls Head Coach Billy Donovan ended his pregame press conference before their game against the Bucks praising Shaka Smart for the direction he is taking Marquette. Shaka was an assistant for Donovan at Florida. That was pretty cool.
MU should Find that tape and send it to all recruits
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MU should Find that tape and send it to all recruits
Agreed.
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heres a random video of don9van saying shakas a good coach plz come to MU kid"
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Shaka and company have a ton of guys to coach up this summer, I wonder what the plans are for the underclassmen
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Bilas said the same about Wojo.
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heres a random video of don9van saying shakas a good coach plz come to MU kid"
Haha……
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Bulls Head Coach Billy Donovan ended his pregame press conference before their game against the Bucks praising Shaka Smart for the direction he is taking Marquette. Shaka was an assistant for Donovan at Florida. That was pretty cool.
What was the context for this? Completely out of nowhere? Did someone ask him about playing at Fiserv?
Seems odd to just randomly shout out a college coach like that.
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Shaka took a roster that on paper had no business making the NIT and led them to a 9 seed. Assuming we land Wrightsil and a Washington level transfer and lose no one else (assuming Justin is gone), next year's roster will be better on paper than last year's was before the season started. I expect another overperformance. Somewhere in the 5-8 seed realm. Coaching matters.
Year 1 saw huge developmental jumps for Lewis, Morsell, OMax, Oso, and Kolek. Kam played way above his high school ranking. Kur and Greg were about the same players they were the previous season and Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis roughly played to their high school rankings with Mitchell/Joplin occasionally showing promise and Ellis largely underperforming.
No reason not to expect similar developmental jumps this season and at least one of the four freshmen (including Itejere) to play well above their ranking. It may not happen but the baseline has been set.
I hope you're right. I also hope they all decide to stick around and not jump for "greener pastures".
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That’s not very COLE-like.
Shaka took a roster that on paper had no business making the NIT and led them to a 9 seed. Assuming we land Wrightsil and a Washington level transfer and lose no one else (assuming Justin is gone), next year's roster will be better on paper than last year's was before the season started. I expect another overperformance. Somewhere in the 5-8 seed realm. Coaching matters.
Year 1 saw huge developmental jumps for Lewis, Morsell, OMax, Oso, and Kolek. Kam played way above his high school ranking. Kur and Greg were about the same players they were the previous season and Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis roughly played to their high school rankings with Mitchell/Joplin occasionally showing promise and Ellis largely underperforming.
No reason not to expect similar developmental jumps this season and at least one of the four freshmen (including Itejere) to play well above their ranking. It may not happen but the baseline has been set.
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Per PaintTouches on Twitter:
"Tyler Kolek shot 51.4% from 3 on catch and shoot jumpers in Big East play, scoring the 2nd most points and putting up the best percentage of any #mubb player on those.
As lethal as he is as a passer with the ball in his hands, a 2nd PG will help his shooting tremendously."
To this point I would not be surprised one bit to see another guard brought in. Kolek was the best in the Big East at distributing the ball last year but was also great on the catch and shoot. He played the 2 at George Mason and shot well from deep as well. May see him get more action at the 2 moving forward.
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Per PaintTouches on Twitter:
"Tyler Kolek shot 51.4% from 3 on catch and shoot jumpers in Big East play, scoring the 2nd most points and putting up the best percentage of any #mubb player on those.
As lethal as he is as a passer with the ball in his hands, a 2nd PG will help his shooting tremendously."
To this point I would not be surprised one bit to see another guard brought in. Kolek was the best in the Big East at distributing the ball last year but was also great on the catch and shoot. He played the 2 at George Mason and shot well from deep as well. May see him get more action at the 2 moving forward.
My eyes must have deceived me
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Mitchell and SJones will probably get run at the 1.
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My eyes must have deceived me
Your eyes did not deceive you. He is really good on the catch and shoot, and.. well..this is what your eyes focused on:
"And the other side of that coin, Kolek shot 14.7% on off-the-dribble 3s.
Until that improves, even to something like 28%, which is still bad, defenses can go under all screens. We saw that play out in the 2nd half of Big East play."
-PaintTouches
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My eyes must have deceived me
I mean there's no way that's accurate right? Unless he shot way better earlier in the season, because he was really poor towards the end of the year.
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I mean there's no way that's accurate right? Unless he shot way better earlier in the season, because he was really poor towards the end of the year.
Catch and shoot. He was really good. Off the dribble he was really bad. Read above. It was night and day.
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Catch and shoot: good
Off the dribble: bad
Don't make it complicated.
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Catch and shoot: good
Off the dribble: bad
Don't make it complicated.
Which is probably why you shouldn't want him to be your primary PG.
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Except for all of those pesky assists. We can hope he improves in the offseason.
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Except for all of those pesky assists. We can hope he improves in the offseason.
A better way to say it is that it will be good to have more than one PG option on the floor at once.
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I mean there's no way that's accurate right? Unless he shot way better earlier in the season, because he was really poor towards the end of the year.
I'm surprised it was 51.4%
But not surprised it was a good number. I said many times what we saw last year in limited sample he was extremely capable at catch and shoot and never cringed at him taking those shots.
It was any shot or lay up off the dribble that caused legit nightmares.
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A better way to say it is that it will be good to have more than one PG option on the floor at once.
It is always good to have multiple ballhandling and offense initiating options on the floor.
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Catch and shoot: good
Off the dribble: bad
Don't make it complicated.
It seemed like he was really poor shooting the ball in general towards the end of the season. Not to make it complicated, but I do wonder how many shots he took because he was passing up a ton of open looks.
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Thanks for the break down but sometimes you have to take statistics with a grain of salt.
I would imagine that percentage was off of an extremely low number of attempts, and is therefore skewed to make it seem like he was an elite catch and shoot 3 guy.
I remember him making a few, and I remember thinking “man if Tyler can even be average from distance, or for that matter from anywhere on the court, Marquette might find a new level”
It never came, he was unfortunately a lousy shooter.
Now if that catch and shoot 3P% was legit you could structure an offense with Stevie at PG and 2 of 3 of Greg, Kam, Kolek as the off guard with decent/good ball handling abilities and be cooking.
Of course none of them shot well as the season wound down.
Imo by far the biggest problem Marquette had offensively after that solid stretch in February was that nearly EVERYONE figured out how to defend them- give Tyler the distance J, any J for that matter, and the one on one drive to the basket. Close off the passing lanes and eliminate easy buckets for the bigs and open 3s.
Then Shaka did not adjust back, and that’s on him.
As much as he gets credit from adjusting from the super run and gun and take hurried 3s offense that started the season, he gets the ;D blame for not adjusting out of the Tyler screen and roll/dish and dive offense that was eventually figured out.
Not sure what he should’ve done, but that’s not my day job. Maybe there was nothing to be done? Maybe crashing the O boards and going more havoc, playing guys like Stevie, Jop, Emarion to give the others some extra legs? Maybe playing Kur and Oso together to get some damn board with their 3 reb per game averages ;)
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I'm surprised it was 51.4%
But not surprised it was a good number. I said many times what we saw last year in limited sample he was extremely capable at catch and shoot and never cringed at him taking those shots.
It was any shot or lay up off the dribble that caused legit nightmares.
51% is really, really good. Even when he had open looks towards the end of the season, I did not feel very confident with him taking those shots. I'm not going to argue with the numbers because I don't have access to them, but that really surprised me.
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I am not surprised. Even when he was hitting nothing else, he seemed to regularly hit that catch and shoot 3 off of the offensive rebound and kickout.
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That’s not very COLE-like.
Sure it is. I've always been a member of the Cult of Logical Expectations.
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The difference in TK's off-the-dribble and catch-and-shoot attempts doesn't shock me, although it would be interesting to see the volume of attempts for each.
I hope he is working on a floater this offseason. Once teams adjusted they really cut off some of his passing lines when they knew he wasn't much of a threat to score in the paint. I think a good floater could make a real difference.
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I knew Kolek was better on the catch and shoot (and pretty much a disaster with any kind of shot off the dribble), but I'll admit I'm surprised by the 51%. I wonder what the sample size was.
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It seemed like he was really poor shooting the ball in general towards the end of the season. Not to make it complicated, but I do wonder how many shots he took because he was passing up a ton of open looks.
End of the season was actually his best shooting time. Not that it was particularly good. It was just better than greg and morsell.
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End of the season was actually his best shooting time. Not that it was particularly good. It was just better than greg and morsell.
To give the numbers, in the last 13 games of the season, Kolek shot a respectable 36% from 3 on 3.8 attempts a game. His last 4 games though were a bit rough though, 3/13 (23.1%).
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To give the numbers, in the last 13 games of the season, Kolek shot a respectable 36% from 3 on 3.8 attempts a game. His last 4 games though were a bit rough though, 3/13 (23.1%).
During those 13 games, Kolek had 5 mostly forgettable shooting games, followed by a 3-game stretch in which he went 7/14 (.500) from 3, followed by 5 more less-than-wonderful shooting games. In the 10 games that sammiched the 3 good ones, he shot .306.
We all can try to find stats to make things look better, but Tyler really didn't shoot well - period. And by the last month-plus, opponents starting taking advantage of his limitations.
As a team, our problems were made worse by the fact that Greg stopped hitting 3s and Kam also struggled some. After shooting 41% from 3 and 49% overall during the 8-1 stretch that put us in the conversation for a protected seed, we shot 32%/44% from Feb. 8 on. And that was on top of our defensive and rebounding woes.
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During those 13 games, Kolek had 5 mostly forgettable shooting games, followed by a 3-game stretch in which he went 7/14 (.500) from 3, followed by 5 more less-than-wonderful shooting games. In the 10 games that sammiched the 3 good ones, he shot .306.
We all can try to find stats to make things look better, but Tyler really didn't shoot well - period. And by the last month-plus, opponents starting taking advantage of his limitations.
As a team, our problems were made worse by the fact that Greg stopped hitting 3s and Kam also struggled some. After shooting 41% from 3 and 49% overall during the 8-1 stretch that put us in the conversation for a protected seed, we shot 32%/44% from Feb. 8 on. And that was on top of our defensive and rebounding woes.
Except for the fact that 51% is incredible. So if he's a much better shooter on the catch and shoot it may suggest he should be used in spots other than the primary ball handler. They now have a primary PG option with Jones coming in, so there are ways to make he and the offense more effective.
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Honestly, I'm surprised this is that big of a talking point. When Tyler was set and someone created for him, he was money. Seriously, he was a great shooter in those situations. Go back and watch our conference play.
The problem was too often he tried to create those shots for himself off the dribble. That's why the "can I be an a-hole now" moment was so impressive, because he drained it off the dribble.
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Except for the fact that 51% is incredible.
Is it, though? How many shots are we talking about? A statistically significant number? How does that compare to other shooters?
I think it's a safe assumption that every shooter is going to be better with a catch-and-shoot vs off the dribble. I'd be interested in giving the number some context before declaring anything "incredible."
Also, you really need to ease up on the Sean Jones hype train. Expecting any freshman - much less a borderline top 100 kid - to come in and immediately be your primary point guard is a big ask. Let the kid come in and find his way before heaping unrealistic expectations upon him.
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Is it, though? How many shots are we talking about? A statistically significant number? How does that compare to other shooters?
I think it's a safe assumption that every shooter is going to be better with a catch-and-shoot vs off the dribble. I'd be interested in giving the number some context before declaring anything "incredible."
Also, you really need to ease up on the Sean Jones hype train. Expecting any freshman - much less a borderline top 100 kid - to come in and immediately be your primary point guard is a big ask. Let the kid come in and find his way before heaping unrealistic expectations upon him.
Agree with all this. Maybe Kolek was one of the best catch-and-shoot guys in the world last season. Like you, I'd like to see the sample size.
I'm hoping for great things from Sean Jones because I'm a Marquette fan, but knowing how freshmen get hyped, and knowing how long it takes most to acclimate, I keep my expectations tempered.
And sure, using Kolek off the ball some could be an option. I've long been a fan of the multiple-PG offense. That's all up for Shaka to decide after he has his full roster and puts 'em through the paces.
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During those 13 games, Kolek had 5 mostly forgettable shooting games, followed by a 3-game stretch in which he went 7/14 (.500) from 3, followed by 5 more less-than-wonderful shooting games. In the 10 games that sammiched the 3 good ones, he shot .306.
We all can try to find stats to make things look better, but Tyler really didn't shoot well - period. And by the last month-plus, opponents starting taking advantage of his limitations.
As a team, our problems were made worse by the fact that Greg stopped hitting 3s and Kam also struggled some. After shooting 41% from 3 and 49% overall during the 8-1 stretch that put us in the conversation for a protected seed, we shot 32%/44% from Feb. 8 on. And that was on top of our defensive and rebounding woes.
So in a 13 game stretch at the end of the season, Kolek shot 30.6% after you take out his three best games? And his season average was 28.6%? Sounds like JFP was correct that Kolek had has best shooting at the end of the season!
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So in a 13 game stretch at the end of the season, Kolek shot 30.6% after you take out his three best games? And his season average was 28.6%? Sounds like JFP was correct that Kolek had has best shooting at the end of the season!
Fair enough.
I think we're all working a little too hard trying to find numbers to defend our narratives. Overall, Tyler Kolek did not shoot the ball well enough IMHO. Others are free to disagree.
I like to think Tyler will use this offseason to improve his scoring game -- needs to go right more, needs to develop a float game, needs a stop-and-pop from 10-15 feet. And yes, needs to shoot 3s better. All those "needs" are if he's to be a truly impactful PG over the course of a long Big East season.
We need an upgrade at every position, including PG. If Tyler himself is the one who provides that upgrade, that would be A-OK with me.
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So in a 13 game stretch at the end of the season, Kolek shot 30.6% after you take out his three best games? And his season average was 28.6%? Sounds like JFP was correct that Kolek had has best shooting at the end of the season!
Why 13 games?
It's not a round (or round-ish) number, like last 10 or 15 games. It's not a half-season mark (that would be 16), or quarter-season (8), or even third-season mark (11).
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Fair enough.
I think we're all working a little too hard trying to find numbers to defend our narratives. Overall, Tyler Kolek did not shoot the ball well enough IMHO. Others are free to disagree.
I like to think Tyler will use this offseason to improve his scoring game -- needs to go right more, needs to develop a float game, needs a stop-and-pop from 10-15 feet. And yes, needs to shoot 3s better. All those "needs" are if he's to be a truly impactful PG over the course of a long Big East season.
We need an upgrade at every position, including PG. If Tyler himself is the one who provides that upgrade, that would be A-OK with me.
I'm not trying to say anything other than Kolek shot better at the end of the season than he did at the beginning. Which was not a high bar.
Why 13 games?
It's not a round (or round-ish) number, like last 10 or 15 games. It's not a half-season mark (that would be 16), or quarter-season (8), or even third-season mark (11).
Okay.
Season Average: 28.1%
First 16 games: 23.2%
Last 16 games: 33.9%
Last 15 games: 33.9%
Last 11 games: 35.9%
Last 10 games: 35.0%
Last 8 games: 36.7%
No matter which of the numbers you use, Kolek was shooting better from 3 at the end of the season than he was at the beginning, which like I told 82 was not a high bar. That is the only point being made.
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Fair enough.
I think we're all working a little too hard trying to find numbers to defend our narratives. Overall, Tyler Kolek did not shoot the ball well enough IMHO. Others are free to disagree.
I like to think Tyler will use this offseason to improve his scoring game -- needs to go right more, needs to develop a float game, needs a stop-and-pop from 10-15 feet. And yes, needs to shoot 3s better. All those "needs" are if he's to be a truly impactful PG over the course of a long Big East season.
We need an upgrade at every position, including PG. If Tyler himself is the one who provides that upgrade, that would be A-OK with me.
I asked Andrei at Paint Touches for the actual number breakdown in conference play. Here it is:
Catch and Shoot: 18/35 (51.4%)
Off the Dribble: 5/34 (14.7%)
It's not a small sample size, both figures are almost exactly half his conference three-point attempts. When he was set and the shot was created for him, Tyler was burn the building down hot. He was unquestionably elite. Damn near Markus in 2017 elite.
The problem was he was so bad off the dribble, and because those are ball-dominant possessions, they stand out more in the mind (player has the ball in his hand throughout the play rather than just from catch to release). They're also the possessions where you see the action as it builds, so you get that "no, no, no, dammit no!" mental buildup going on.
I think this is part of why people are so optimistic about Jones. Having another point guard that can share those duties and allow Kolek to do more catch and shoot and less pull up and wing it should make TK more efficient. Because the key to unlocking his game is about creating the right shots for him. He's already demonstrated ad nauseum that he can succeed when we do that.
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Andrei should’ve sent those numbers to Shaka before the conference tournament, so that he could take Tyler off the ball and have him running off screens spotting off for 3 more often.
Running the point wasn’t really working for him down the stretch.
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Andrei should’ve sent those numbers to Shaka before the conference tournament, so that he could take Tyler off the ball and have him running off screens spotting off for 3 more often.
Running the point wasn’t really working for him down the stretch.
The other options weren't great either.
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The other options weren't great either.
Yup. Stevie was good defensively, but not great offensively in terms of creating for himself or others. Morsell and Kam clearly weren't natural at the position. Honestly, the only thing they really could've done was finding a way to keep DJ Carton around. By the time we got to the Big East Tourney, our PG options were pretty set.
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Stevie started stepping up too late in the year to significantly change the calculus.
Kolek won A-10 freshman of the year playing off the ball, catching and shooting or going to the basket against a moving, recovering defense. He let the Big East in assists in his first year playing the point in D1.
How about we give the man a chance to continue to improve?
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Yup. Stevie was good defensively, but not great offensively in terms of creating for himself or others. Morsell and Kam clearly weren't natural at the position. Honestly, the only thing they really could've done was finding a way to keep DJ Carton around. By the time we got to the Big East Tourney, our PG options were pretty set.
I think that was the plan right? Carton left two weeks after Kolek committed. Carton was a legit PG who could finish at the rim and IMO would have added a lot on the floor. (Not sure about in the locker room though.)
I do believe that we could still have had Morsell since he was in his fifth year and the rosters temporarily expanded right?
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Bigger question is what we do in two years time, because after reading this thread, it seems certain that Jones will be a 1-and-done lottery pick after breaking Tony Miller's all-time assist record and Jerel's all-time steal record with three games to spare.
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I think that was the plan right? Carton left two weeks after Kolek committed. Carton was a legit PG who could finish at the rim and IMO would have added a lot on the floor. (Not sure about in the locker room though.)
I do believe that we could still have had Morsell since he was in his fifth year and the rosters temporarily expanded right?
Yes, the expectation was to have both Carton and Kolek in the backcourt and Morsell was planned all along. They knew Morsell was coming before DeAndre Haynes was hired (April 16) even though Morsell didn't officially commit until June 28. Perez (left on May 13) was the Morsell scholarship, though because Carton had also left we ended up with 12 instead of 13. We didn't have the option to add Morsell unless it kept us at 13 or fewer scholarships, the temporary expansion was only for players that exercised their COVID year at the same school.
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Yes, the expectation was to have both Carton and Kolek in the backcourt and Morsell was planned all along. They knew Morsell was coming before DeAndre Haynes was hired (April 16) even though Morsell didn't officially commit until June 28. Perez (left on May 13) was the Morsell scholarship, though because Carton had also left we ended up with 12 instead of 13. We didn't have the option to add Morsell unless it kept us at 13 or fewer scholarships, the temporary expansion was only for players that exercised their COVID year at the same school.
Ah...counting is such a lost art...
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I asked Andrei at Paint Touches for the actual number breakdown in conference play. Here it is:
Catch and Shoot: 18/35 (51.4%)
Off the Dribble: 5/34 (14.7%)
It's not a small sample size, both figures are almost exactly half his conference three-point attempts. When he was set and the shot was created for him, Tyler was burn the building down hot. He was unquestionably elite. Damn near Markus in 2017 elite.
Well, except Markus shot 54.7% on all 150 of his three-point attempts in 2017, not 35 catch-and-shoot attempts in conference play only. It's light years from an apples-to-apples comparison. I suspect you know that already.
Unquestionably elite? How can we make that judgement if we don't compare it to catch-and-shoot stats from other players.
If you want to make the case that Kolek went from a dreadful three-point shooter early in the season to an OK one in conference play, that's fine. It certainly seems true. But the effort to rehabilitate his shooting performance to the point that he was "elite" at anything through cherry-picked stats doesn't hold up.
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I asked Andrei at Paint Touches for the actual number breakdown in conference play. Here it is:
Catch and Shoot: 18/35 (51.4%)
Off the Dribble: 5/34 (14.7%)
It's not a small sample size, both figures are almost exactly half his conference three-point attempts. When he was set and the shot was created for him, Tyler was burn the building down hot. He was unquestionably elite. Damn near Markus in 2017 elite.
The problem was he was so bad off the dribble, and because those are ball-dominant possessions, they stand out more in the mind (player has the ball in his hand throughout the play rather than just from catch to release). They're also the possessions where you see the action as it builds, so you get that "no, no, no, dammit no!" mental buildup going on.
I think this is part of why people are so optimistic about Jones. Having another point guard that can share those duties and allow Kolek to do more catch and shoot and less pull up and wing it should make TK more efficient. Because the key to unlocking his game is about creating the right shots for him. He's already demonstrated ad nauseum that he can succeed when we do that.
Thanks for the info, brew. Very interesting.
But I do have to agree with Pakuni that taking 35 and making 18 over the course of 31 games hardly proves that a guy is "Damn near Markus in 2017 elite."
Shaka obviously has those numbers, too. (right?) We'll see what he does with them next season.
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Thanks for the info, brew. Very interesting.
But I do have to agree with Pakuni that taking 35 and making 18 over the course of 31 games hardly proves that a guy is "Damn near Markus in 2017 elite."
Shaka obviously has those numbers, too. (right?) We'll see what he does with them next season.
The problem was they didn't really have anyone else that could handle the ball last year.
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option to add Morsell unless it kept us at 13 or fewer scholarships, the temporary expansion was only for players that exercised their COVID year at the same school.
I would have thought there would have been a way to classify Greg as a covid senior (extra scholarship) instead of the silly "redshirt junior" (which he also had in 20-21) classification. But who knows, water under the bridge.
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I would have thought there would have been a way to classify Greg as a covid senior (extra scholarship) instead of the silly "redshirt junior" classification. But who knows, water under the bridge.
They never needed to find out thanks to Perez leaving when he did, but it would've been interesting. Based on my strict reading of the rules around it, I don't think it would've worked, but with the NCAA you never know.
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Well, except Markus shot 54.7% on all 150 of his three-point attempts in 2017, not 35 catch-and-shoot attempts in conference play only. It's light years from an apples-to-apples comparison. I suspect you know that already.
Unquestionably elite? How can we make that judgement if we don't compare it to catch-and-shoot stats from other players.
If you want to make the case that Kolek went from a dreadful three-point shooter early in the season to an OK one in conference play, that's fine. It certainly seems true. But the effort to rehabilitate his shooting performance to the point that he was "elite" at anything through cherry-picked stats doesn't hold up.
The term elite is thrown around way too much.
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Lunardi's updated bracket
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field (https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field)
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Lunardi's updated bracket
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field (https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field)
First 4 out? And Lunardi calls himself an elite bracketologist!
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First 4 out? And Lunardi calls himself an elite bracketologist!
He's no Jerry Palm. That's for sure.
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First 4 out? And Lunardi calls himself an elite bracketologist!
Lunardi has joined the COLE.
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and if Marquette won't make it, at least Bucky wont either...
First 4 out? And Lunardi calls himself an elite bracketologist!
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I asked Andrei at Paint Touches for the actual number breakdown in conference play. Here it is:
Catch and Shoot: 18/35 (51.4%)
Off the Dribble: 5/34 (14.7%)
It's not a small sample size, both figures are almost exactly half his conference three-point attempts. When he was set and the shot was created for him, Tyler was burn the building down hot. He was unquestionably elite. Damn near Markus in 2017 elite.
The problem was he was so bad off the dribble, and because those are ball-dominant possessions, they stand out more in the mind (player has the ball in his hand throughout the play rather than just from catch to release). They're also the possessions where you see the action as it builds, so you get that "no, no, no, dammit no!" mental buildup going on.
I think this is part of why people are so optimistic about Jones. Having another point guard that can share those duties and allow Kolek to do more catch and shoot and less pull up and wing it should make TK more efficient. Because the key to unlocking his game is about creating the right shots for him. He's already demonstrated ad nauseum that he can succeed when we do that.
I'm not Larry Bird on the shot, but don’t have to be …did anyone watch Kolek’s shot release? Ball rotation? Arc? All bad. Side release, side ball rotation w/a flat shot. All equals a poor shooter. A shot that will rarely get the bounce. Sure, he hit a shot from time to time, but nothing consistent. Catch & shoot means zip with what Kolek has going on. So…are we hoping this improves? Are we hoping the guy works to transform his shot this off season? IMO, Kolek is a back-up pg that’s starting. That’s too bad. MU needs an upgrade at this position. Maybe that upgrade is Kolek. But if the shot release remains as is, he is as he is.
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I'm not Larry Bird on the shot, but don’t have to be …did anyone watch Kolek’s shot release? Ball rotation? Arc? All bad. Side release, side ball rotation w/a flat shot. All equals a poor shooter. A shot that will rarely get the bounce. Sure, he hit a shot from time to time, but nothing consistent. Catch & shoot means zip with what Kolek has going on. So…are we hoping this improves? Are we hoping the guy works to transform his shot this off season? IMO, Kolek is a back-up pg that’s starting. That’s too bad. MU needs an upgrade at this position. Maybe that upgrade is Kolek. But if the shot release remains as is, he is as he is.
We could also just judge by the statistics laid out.
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If memory serves, the majority of his spot up 3’s came in the butler home game and home nova game.
The numbers are the numbers, but towards the end of the year, he passed up a lot of open looks and didn’t seem confident shooting the ball. I do question if that number is comprehensive enough to make such a strong claim.
I do agree with the original premise though. He (and the team) will be greatly served with him moving off the ball.
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Found this in my suggested lineup on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/3VD65FRowXE
I think we are underestimating what Kam Jones did this year and what he can be for this team. Unanimous All Freshman off the bench isn't easy to do.
Also, not sure of the backup plan, but it looks like the last spot is being saved for Justin and appears that Ben Gold is the backup 5 beyond Oso.
With Gold at the 5, Marquette will have 5 players on the court capable of knocking down the 3. Has that ever happened at Marquette?
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Buzz years.
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With Gold at the 5, Marquette will have 5 players on the court capable of knocking down the 3. Has that ever happened at Marquette?
I can't remember a time when we had 4...
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If Lewis does stay... I like Zack at the big guard position with Tyler as the primary ball handler, filling out the starting lineup w/O-Max and Ighodaro (he needs to toughen up under the basket though).
I'd note, Morsell didn't arrive at MU as an outside threat but did contribute from distance... and his midrange appeared (no advanced fancy stuff here) great. I'd like Zack to fill this void. That's a rather big lineup w/ easy switches on D too.
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I can't remember a time when we had 4...
A roster with Jae Crowder had to be the closest. It will present a problem for defenses should Justin return.
Bench options capable of scoring from behind the arc would include:
Ellis, Mitchell, Jones, Ross, Joplin, Gold
6 guys off the bench that are capable of hitting an open jumpshot. Combine that with the 4 in the starting lineup (assuming Lewis returns) and we have 10 of 13 guys capable of hitting outside shots.
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If Justin returns we return 4 players who shot over 32% from beyond the arc last season. Of those 4, two of them attempted 0.6 three pointers per game. I'm not sure I'm ready to say 10 of 13 of our players have the ability to shoot from distance.
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With Gold at the 5, Marquette will have 5 players on the court capable of knocking down the 3. Has that ever happened at Marquette?
I can't remember a time when we had 4...
Lineups? We had a 5 out lineup last year with Kolek, Jones, Morsell, O-Max, and Lewis. We've had a lineup like that almost every year. In terms of starters, the last time it was done was Lazar's senior year when we played the micro starting lineup. 11-12 may count too, we had 5 guys who could hit the three but three of them were not lights out that year. And who could forget Theo John shooting 75% from three in his senior year!
21-22: 4/5 starters who made 19+ threes (Kuath made 0)
20-21: 4/5 starters who made 26+ threes (and Theo shot the three at 75%!)
19-20: 4/5 starters who made 35+ threes (Theo made 0)
18-19: 4/5 starters who made 27+ threes (Theo made 0)
17-18: 3/5 starters who made 95+ threes (Sacar made 8 and Heldt made 0)
16-17: 3/5 starters who made 32+ threes (Haanif made 13 and Luke made 0)
15-16: 4/5 starters who made 22+ threes (Luke made 0)
14-15: 4/5 starters who made 16+ threes (Derrick made 9, Luke made 0)
13-14: 2/5 starters who made 32+ threes (Juan made 5, Derrick made 1, Otule made 0)
12-13: 1/5 starters who made 40 threes (Junior made 14, Lockett made 13, Juan made 12, Otule made 0)
11-12: 2/5 starters who made 61+ threes (Jamil made 10, Junior made 9, Vander made 8)
10-11: 4/5 starters who made 20+ threes (Otule made 0)
09-10: 5/5 starters who made 16+ threes
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Lineups? We had a 5 out lineup last year with Kolek, Jones, Morsell, O-Max, and Lewis. We've had a lineup like that almost every year. In terms of starters, the last time it was done was Lazar's senior year when we played the micro starting lineup. 11-12 may count too, we had 5 guys who could hit the three but three of them were not lights out that year. And who could forget Theo John shooting 75% from three in his senior year!
21-22: 4/5 starters who made 19+ threes (Kuath made 0)
20-21: 4/5 starters who made 26+ threes (and Theo shot the three at 75%!)
19-20: 4/5 starters who made 35+ threes (Theo made 0)
18-19: 4/5 starters who made 27+ threes (Theo made 0)
17-18: 3/5 starters who made 95+ threes (Sacar made 8 and Heldt made 0)
16-17: 3/5 starters who made 32+ threes (Haanif made 13 and Luke made 0)
15-16: 4/5 starters who made 22+ threes (Luke made 0)
14-15: 4/5 starters who made 16+ threes (Derrick made 9, Luke made 0)
13-14: 2/5 starters who made 32+ threes (Juan made 5, Derrick made 1, Otule made 0)
12-13: 1/5 starters who made 40 threes (Junior made 14, Lockett made 13, Juan made 12, Otule made 0)
11-12: 2/5 starters who made 61+ threes (Jamil made 10, Junior made 9, Vander made 8)
10-11: 4/5 starters who made 20+ threes (Otule made 0)
09-10: 5/5 starters who made 16+ threes
Gold probably won't be starting, so we won't see 5/5 starters this year, but interesting numbers.
I do like his skillset to compliment that of Oso. A true modern day 6'11" stretch 5. With Itejere as a 3rd potential 4/5 it should give them the ability to be aggressive on the glass and defensively knowing they have the depth. Not sure what Itejere will bring offensively, if anything at all, but he will be able to block shots and rebound which is valuable.
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Gold probably won't be starting, so we won't see 5/5 starters this year, but interesting numbers.
I do like his skillset to compliment that of Oso. A true modern day 6'11" stretch 5. With Itejere as a 3rd potential 4/5 it should give them the ability to be aggressive on the glass and defensively knowing they have the depth. Not sure what Itejere will bring offensively, if anything at all, but he will be able to block shots and rebound which is valuable.
I would in no way describe Oso as a stretch anything. In 2 seasons at Marquette he has attempted exactly 0 three pointers. Defenses will ignore him on the perimeter, and they should.
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Found this in my suggested lineup on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/3VD65FRowXE
I think we are underestimating what Kam Jones did this year and what he can be for this team. Unanimous All Freshman off the bench isn't easy to do.
Also, not sure of the backup plan, but it looks like the last spot is being saved for Justin and appears that Ben Gold is the backup 5 beyond Oso.
With Gold at the 5, Marquette will have 5 players on the court capable of knocking down the 3. Has that ever happened at Marquette?
I have confidence that the coaches are working on Oso's shot. He was a capable (not good) shooter to the 3-point line in high school. I don't think we'll see him shooting a bunch yet, but I think we will see him taking the occasionally 15-footer.
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I would in no way describe Oso as a stretch anything. In 2 seasons at Marquette he has attempted exactly 0 three pointers. Defenses will ignore him on the perimeter, and they should.
Gold is the stretch 5. Oso is not.
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Gold is the stretch 5. Oso is not.
Got it, misread it, sorry.
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I have confidence that the coaches are working on Oso's shot. He was a capable (not good) shooter to the 3-point line in high school. I don't think we'll see him shooting a bunch yet, but I think we will see him taking the occasionally 15-footer.
Yes, It would be nice if he could just hit a 15 footer, free throw line extended, he had that shot all year last year! Never took it. If he starts making that, the center will
have to come out and guard him, with his quickness he can beat majority of centers he will be up against. That would make the offense run smoother.
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I have confidence that the coaches are working on Oso's shot. He was a capable (not good) shooter to the 3-point line in high school. I don't think we'll see him shooting a bunch yet, but I think we will see him taking the occasionally 15-footer.
Yes, It would be nice if he could just hit a 15 footer, free throw line extended, he had that shot all year last year! Never took it. If he starts making that, the center will
have to come out and guard him, with his quickness he can beat majority of centers he will be up against. That would make the offense run smoother.
I've said it before, but modern basketball doesn't even want the Steph Curry's of the world shooting 15 foot jumpers. I don't think we'll be seeing our coaching staff having our 6'11" center shooting those shots. I think it's a lot more likely they'd work on his 3 point shooting, but I don't even see that as being a focus for him. I'm hoping they're focusing on the weight room with him this offseason.
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Even the analytics guys are fine with 15 footers if the guys shooting them are really good from those spots. But MU doesn't have anyone who is there yet.
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I've said it before, but modern basketball doesn't even want the Steph Curry's of the world shooting 15 foot jumpers. I don't think we'll be seeing our coaching staff having our 6'11" center shooting those shots. I think it's a lot more likely they'd work on his 3 point shooting, but I don't even see that as being a focus for him. I'm hoping they're focusing on the weight room with him this offseason.
I agree regarding Oso. He's much more effective screening and rolling to the basket, or attack off the dribble because it can be tough for other bigs to guard.
Since Creighton seems to be the hot topic, we struggled with their pick and roll defense because of how much space Kaulkbrenner took up. Ben Gold is bigger than Oso and close to the size of Kaulkbrenner but can shoot at an extremely high level from deep. What you see here will add a new dimension to Marquette that will be very difficult for a guy like Kaulkbrenner to defend. The screen and flare rather than the screen and roll.
Against Oso, Kaulkbrenner is drawn away from the basket but still takes up space in the lane because he doesn't have to worry about Oso shooting over the top. That's not the case with Gold. Gold and Oso are a great compliment to one another.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1514270317794975745?t=2kFEsr_Kl5JxwyGC-KPtQA&s=19
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I would in no way describe Oso as a stretch anything. In 2 seasons at Marquette he has attempted exactly 0 three pointers. Defenses will ignore him on the perimeter, and they should.
I agree with this, though it's possible he could be that. Usually FT% is a fair indicator of three point shooting ability, and Oso's 73.8% from the line is pretty strong. No guarantee, and he could just as easily end his career with zero three point attempts, but it's not unthinkable that he could develop that skill. It would be a dramatic shift from his current role, but it's within the realm of possibility.
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I agree with this, though it's possible he could be that. Usually FT% is a fair indicator of three point shooting ability, and Oso's 73.8% from the line is pretty strong. No guarantee, and he could just as easily end his career with zero three point attempts, but it's not unthinkable that he could develop that skill. It would be a dramatic shift from his current role, but it's within the realm of possibility.
As Nevada Smith stated there working on changing 4 players outside shot, I think Oso is probably one of them. A 15 footer opens up the lane, let’s start with that as he did not show it all last year.
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NBA Draft Expert, Jonathan Givony, has Olivier-Maxence Prosper going 59th overall in next years NBA Draft. Obviously there is a lot that can happen between now and then but people are starting to notice the talent.
Very cool to see Justin and OMax getting some of the spotlight they deserve and bringing that light back to Marquette Hoops.
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Golden
I am going to enjoy Omax this year because I think he will be in a similar position as Justin at the conclusion of next season. Honestly, I think he is going to be a hell of a player this upcoming season.
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I've said it before, but modern basketball doesn't even want the Steph Curry's of the world shooting 15 foot jumpers. I don't think we'll be seeing our coaching staff having our 6'11" center shooting those shots. I think it's a lot more likely they'd work on his 3 point shooting, but I don't even see that as being a focus for him. I'm hoping they're focusing on the weight room with him this offseason.
Yup, if your strategy is to score .85 PPP, you have Oso take 15 footers.
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Golden
I am going to enjoy Omax this year because I think he will be in a similar position as Justin at the conclusion of next season. Honestly, I think he is going to be a hell of a player this upcoming season.
I think he has a lot to like.
Size, strength, athleticism, a respectable jumper, and is well conditioned. He was always guarding the other teams best player and he got better every week it seemed.
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Watching the NBA playoffs, I think OMP's skillset translates to the NBA better than does Justin. He isn't better than Justin right now. But he has a high ceiling. I hope he puts in the work to get to his ceiling.
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Watching the NBA playoffs, I think OMP's skillset translates to the NBA better than does Justin. He isn't better than Justin right now. But he has a high ceiling. I hope he puts in the work to get to his ceiling.
OMP's a more complete (at this respective stage in his college career) version of a Juan Anderson type player. Long, bouncy, and fast. We saw what kind of upside that has.
I think his national team exposure/experience will only help him as well.
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Golden
I am going to enjoy Omax this year because I think he will be in a similar position as Justin at the conclusion of next season. Honestly, I think he is going to be a hell of a player this upcoming season.
Agree Goose. And agree with others who feel his ceiling may be higher than Justin's.
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Agree Goose. And agree with others who feel his ceiling may be higher than Justin's.
I like it. Hope you and Goose are right. Would be a a good indication that the team will be an NCAA tournament contender again.
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Team Outlook. Feel the Team will be worse than last year without Justin NIT maybe more. Feel the Team will be better than last year with Justin Sweet 16 maybe more.
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Still holding out hope that Justin will be back. With him, Omax and Oso, we're going to be nasty!
I like Nasty.
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Chase Ross, Ben Gold, and David Joplin got some scrimmaging in in Milwaukee today.
A few other D1 representatives from Wisconsin were also there as well as former Golden Eagle, Duane Wilson.
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Chase Ross, Ben Gold, and David Joplin got some scrimmaging in in Milwaukee today.
A few other D1 representatives from Wisconsin were also there as well as former Golden Eagle, Duane Wilson.
Gold and Ross both look physically ready to play in the Big East, thats for sure. We knew Ross was a freak athlete but I was surprised by Gold's bounce. Looks like a 5 at this level.
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Gold and Ross both look physically ready to play in the Big East, thats for sure. We knew Ross was a freak athlete but I was surprised by Gold's bounce. Looks like a 5 at this level.
Thanks for the information. That’s good to hear.
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Gold and Ross both look physically ready to play in the Big East, thats for sure. We knew Ross was a freak athlete but I was surprised by Gold's bounce. Looks like a 5 at this level.
Can you share more. Every thing I have seen if Gold he still seems very, very skinny and not ready to hang with big East guys. Has he bulked up?
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Can you share more. Every thing I have seen if Gold he still seems very, very skinny and not ready to hang with big East guys. Has he bulked up?
Video of the MKE scrimmages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM7MTLN6d2o
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Can you share more. Every thing I have seen if Gold he still seems very, very skinny and not ready to hang with big East guys. Has he bulked up?
There is a long video of the scrimmages from yesterday on Youtube. It doesnt focus on the Marquette guys too much but Ben Gold had a putback dunk on his own miss, was very impressed by his quick 2nd jump which he got over the rim easily. He looks built like a college 5.
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He looks thicker than I thought he would be. But really there is very little to be implied otherwise from that video.
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Video of the MKE scrimmages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM7MTLN6d2o
Swaggy and Joplin looked good .
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Swaggy and Joplin looked good .
So does Dexter.
Don't watch summer tape for skills development / defense.
Look at it briefly for body type, explosiveness off the ground, which pretty much takes place on dunks.
MU guys good/fine.
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Was Swaggy playing with his wallet in his back pocket ? Lol
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He looks thicker than I thought he would be. But really there is very little to be implied otherwise from that video.
Agree with this. It is a pick up game. However, Gold looks like he has lifted some weights. Or just filled out. And he didn't look scared.
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Agree with this. It is a pick up game. However, Gold looks like he has lifted some weights. Or just filled out. And he didn't look scared.
The one who dunks at the 9:15ish mark is Emarion Ellis. Can hardly recognize him with the haircut. He looks bigger as well.
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The one who dunks at the 9:15ish mark is Emarion Ellis. Can hardly recognize him with the haircut. He looks bigger as well.
You sure about that??
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You sure about that??
Yeah, I don't think that's him either.
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Yeah, I don't think that's him either.
I'm quite certain it's him. He's wearing the team shoes and you can see him in the back of a few Instagram videos from Dwyane Wade's sister from graduation weekend.
He got a haircut but appears to have bulked up quite a bit.
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I'm quite certain it's him. He's wearing the team shoes and you can see him in the back of a few Instagram videos from Dwyane Wade's sister from graduation weekend.
He got a haircut but appears to have bulked up quite a bit.
It’s 100% him. I had to check because watching the first time through I couldn’t tell who that player was. He was the only guy that stuck out with nba level body + athleticism. Check his tagged Instagram pictures. Hopefully he’s ready for a bigger role next season
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Even the analytics guys are fine with 15 footers if the guys shooting them are really good from those spots. But MU doesn't have anyone who is there yet.
Shaka and staff don't want that. They have said it, open 3s or deep inside 2's.
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Get in Tyrese’s ear Jop, Emarion, Chase, and Ben.
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I'm quite certain it's him. He's wearing the team shoes and you can see him in the back of a few Instagram videos from Dwyane Wade's sister from graduation weekend.
He got a haircut but appears to have bulked up quite a bit.
It’s 100% him. I had to check because watching the first time through I couldn’t tell who that player was. He was the only guy that stuck out with nba level body + athleticism. Check his tagged Instagram pictures. Hopefully he’s ready for a bigger role next season
I stand corrected then. Thanks!
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The one who dunks at the 9:15ish mark is Emarion Ellis. Can hardly recognize him with the haircut. He looks bigger as well.
He's going to need a knee boot after that one.
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What if Ellis improves at least as much from last year to this as Oso did last year?
And what if Oso improves at least as much from last year to this as he did last year?
And what if Ben Gold actually can play a little bit?
Yep, those are lots of "what ifs," but that's part of what's fun about being a fan.
Even if one of those things happens, it would help us a lot. If 2 or 3 happen, yes!
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Shaka and staff don't want that. They have said it, open 3s or deep inside 2's.
I know what they have said, and I don't think they are that literal.
Look at the games last season when Morsell got going. Did they tell him to stop taking midrange jumpers?
Scoring at three levels is still a valuable weapon, when used correctly. Especially with smaller guards who won't finish as well at the rim.
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I know what they have said, and I don't think they are that literal.
Look at the games last season when Morsell got going. Did they tell him to stop taking midrange jumpers?
Scoring at three levels is still a valuable weapon, when used correctly. Especially with smaller guards who won't finish as well at the rim.
Nevada Smith talked about this on the Golden Breakdown and what makes a good shot. For players that can hit those midrange shots (like Darryl or Justin) they allowed them to take them because they were still good, efficient shots. For many players, those shots are less efficient so they are discouraged. The focus and the push is for dunks and threes, with the understanding that other good shots do exist and accepting/encouraging them based on situation and individual.
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Nevada Smith talked about this on the Golden Breakdown and what makes a good shot. For players that can hit those midrange shots (like Darryl or Justin) they allowed them to take them because they were still good, efficient shots. For many players, those shots are less efficient so they are discouraged. The focus and the push is for dunks and threes, with the understanding that other good shots do exist and accepting/encouraging them based on situation and individual.
That seems kind of like Middleton and Derozan. They are so good from midrange, that if they are open, it’s an efficient shot.
For instance, I doubt they’d want a guy like Joplin or Elliott dribbling into a midrange shot, but some other guys can hit that shot with regularity.
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It’s 100% him. I had to check because watching the first time through I couldn’t tell who that player was. He was the only guy that stuck out with nba level body + athleticism. Check his tagged Instagram pictures. Hopefully he’s ready for a bigger role next season
Damn. I was watching those and thinking that guy looked pretty smooth. All aboard the EE hype train
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I know what they have said, and I don't think they are that literal.
Look at the games last season when Morsell got going. Did they tell him to stop taking midrange jumpers?
Scoring at three levels is still a valuable weapon, when used correctly. Especially with smaller guards who won't finish as well at the rim.
I was referencing this notion of trying to fit guys into midrange shots, that is not what their philosophy is. If a guy already has that ability, sure.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachShakaSmart/status/1529933475108765696?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Emarion photo.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachShakaSmart/status/1529933475108765696?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Emarion photo.
Now this deserves a new thread.
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https://twitter.com/coachshakasmart/status/1529933475108765696?s=21&t=j_GaMJOGFr65RMJNu4yNiA
https://www.instagram.com/p/CeCY3gsptNy/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Some thoughts. Great to see Dwyane giving back. It looks like he is mentoring EE.
Gold is a legit 6'10.
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Jon Rothstein has Marquette ranked #43
43. Marquette
G Tyler Kolek
G Kam Jones
F Olivier Maxence-Prosper
F Oso Ighodaro
F Justin Lewis (NBA Draft early entrant)
Projected Bench: Stevie Mitchell, Emarion Ellis, Sean Jones, Chase Ross, David Joplin, Keeyan Itejere, Cameron Brown, Zach Wrightstil, Ben Gold
Key Losses: Kur Kuath, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliott
Key Newcomers: Sean Jones, Chase Ross, Zach Wrightstil (NAIA), Ben Gold
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Jon Rothstein has Marquette ranked #43
43. Marquette
G Tyler Kolek
G Kam Jones
F Olivier Maxence-Prosper
F Oso Ighodaro
F Justin Lewis (NBA Draft early entrant)
Projected Bench: Stevie Mitchell, Emarion Ellis, Sean Jones, Chase Ross, David Joplin, Keeyan Itejere, Cameron Brown, Zach Wrightstil, Ben Gold
Key Losses: Kur Kuath, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliott
Key Newcomers: Sean Jones, Chase Ross, Zach Wrightstil (NAIA), Ben Gold
Wow you read this, and that’s a pretty good bench!
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Jon Rothstein has Marquette ranked #43
43. Marquette
G Tyler Kolek
G Kam Jones
F Olivier Maxence-Prosper
F Oso Ighodaro
F Justin Lewis (NBA Draft early entrant)
Projected Bench: Stevie Mitchell, Emarion Ellis, Sean Jones, Chase Ross, David Joplin, Keeyan Itejere, Cameron Brown, Zach Wrightstil, Ben Gold
Key Losses: Kur Kuath, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliott
Key Newcomers: Sean Jones, Chase Ross, Zach Wrightstil (NAIA), Ben Gold
If Justin stays we’re significantly better than 43. You can bet on that.
But Justins not going to stay
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If Justin stays we’re significantly better than 43. You can bet on that.
But Justins not going to stay
My guess is Wrightsil would then take over Justin’s starting spot?
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My guess is Wrightsil would then take over Justin’s starting spot?
Yep - unfortunately the NAIA player is the "next man up" behind a potential All-American. Lets hope he's ready
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Yep - unfortunately the NAIA player is the "next man up" behind a potential All-American. Lets hope he's ready
I actually think he will end being an improvement on the defensive side. Unfortunately his offense will be laughably below what Justin's was. Rebounding will probably take a small hit as well.
I think guys like OMax, Kolek, and Mitchell are all in line for significant offensive improvements this season. Ellis is another X-factor. Staff keep saying that Ellis has the most NBA potential on the roster, just needs time to get there. Hope that time is soon!
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Team Outlook. Feel the Team will be worse than last year without Justin NIT maybe more. Feel the Team will be better than last year with Justin Sweet 16 maybe more.
Happy for Justin he is awesome but unfortunately it is probably NIT for Marquette. Marquette has probably lost more this year than Marquette has added.
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I predict Marquette will exceed expectations & peak around late January/early February, followed by a swift descent down the standings & into the NIT.
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Yep - unfortunately the NAIA player is the "next man up" behind a potential All-American. Lets hope he's ready
What if the NAIA player is Marquette's version of what D3 Ryan Hawkins was for Creighton last season?
I'm staying optimistic because I don't like being pessimistic, especially when there's no reason to be yet.
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What if the NAIA player is Marquette's version of what D3 Andy Hawkins was for Creighton last season?
I'm staying optimistic because I don't like being pessimistic, especially when there's no reason to be yet.
More power to you but I think we both know deep down that type of impact is highly unlikely.
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I actually think he will end being an improvement on the defensive side. Unfortunately his offense will be laughably below what Justin's was. Rebounding will probably take a small hit as well.
I think guys like OMax, Kolek, and Mitchell are all in line for significant offensive improvements this season. Ellis is another X-factor. Staff keep saying that Ellis has the most NBA potential on the roster, just needs time to get there. Hope that time is soon!
This has been brought up before and can't recall/verify who on the staff said this. Ellis was parked on the end of bench the entire season and in BE play, he barely played more than a minute and only in blowouts. You would figure if he had any type of NBA skills, he would of had some playing time. Never happened.
Numerous BE teams lost a lot of players after the season. Many did an outstanding job with recruiting and obtaining players from the transfer portal to backfill the players that were lost. Shaka did an underwhelming job in that category with two recruits not ranked high, a player from New Zealand whose only skill level anyone knows of is on Youtube, and an NAIA player of the year, not D2, but NAIA.
Kolek hopefully learns how to hit an outside shot, Oso needs 15 pounds, and someone needs to rebound. Want to see how Kam Jones works out, he was not shy with his shot and on the pace he was would have had like over 20 shots a game. Shaka will have an interesting summer months getting the team together.
Can't say I am optimistic with this roster and next season will be the season of the unknown...
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My thoughts on next year's outlook...
- PG: I think Sean Jones starts here and has similar impact to Tyler as a first-year point. Will have some great moments and some disappointing ones, but all in all a wash.
- SG: I think Kolek moves here to give us a true two-point look. This will improve his scoring and efficiency vastly, and having a second distributor will improve the offense overall. I think this position is upgraded over Morsell.
- SF: For now pencil Kam Jones in here. He doesn't have ideal size, but I can live with a three-guard lineup and think he will be an offensive upgrade over Justin while sacrificing rebounding and defense. Overall a wash.
- PF: Keep O-Max here and I think he makes a big jump. I don't expect him to put up Justin's scoring numbers (usage won't be there) but I think he'll be an All-Big East caliber player.
- C: Oso taking this spot is another upgrade, IMO. He'll stay on the court more than Kur did and while he's not as good of a shot-blocker, he's a much better all around offensive player.
- Bench: Last year's top three bench players were Oso, Greg, and Kam. This year I would expect Wrightsil, Joplin, and Stevie to be those names, with Itejere most likely to push Oso for minutes (but I think Oso is a 28+ mpg guy). I think we have a better bench this year, with more experience both collegiately and in the system.
Overall: Better team than last year. Justin's loss will hurt, but I think team defense improves with experience and while we didn't bring a ton of new guys in, we did bring a ton of guys back. I also think anyone worried about "who will score" probably doesn't realize that scoring won't be a problem. I fully expect next year's team to be more efficient overall on the offensive end and could care less who scores, I just know that we will score and losing "go-to" options is not and historically has been a problem in the past. Defensively, we lose key defenders, but last year from the outset it was clear they were grooming guys to be the next Morsell, next Kuath types. The pieces are here and will have an extra year of experience and development. I see this as a top-half Big East team. Most likely top-5, ceiling top-3 alongside teams like Creighton and Xavier that I think are the favorites.
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Jones (Sean)
Kolek
OMax
Joplin
Oso
That's my early guess as our most frequent starting lineup. 4 capable shooters with probably our best shooter in Kam off the bench. Also brings Stevie and Wrightsil off the bench. I think Wrightsil fits in nicely as an undersized version of what Oso does well.
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What if the NAIA player is Marquette's version of what D3 Andy Hawkins was for Creighton last season?
I'm staying optimistic because I don't like being pessimistic, especially when there's no reason to be yet.
Is Ryan’s nickname Andy??
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Is Ryan’s nickname Andy??
D'oh! What, you mean that former Padres and Yankees pitcher Andy Hawkins didn't suit up for Creighton's basketball team last season? Thanks for the correction. Fixed.
My thoughts on next year's outlook...
- PG: I think Sean Jones starts here and has similar impact to Tyler as a first-year point. Will have some great moments and some disappointing ones, but all in all a wash.
- SG: I think Kolek moves here to give us a true two-point look. This will improve his scoring and efficiency vastly, and having a second distributor will improve the offense overall. I think this position is upgraded over Morsell.
- SF: For now pencil Kam Jones in here. He doesn't have ideal size, but I can live with a three-guard lineup and think he will be an offensive upgrade over Justin while sacrificing rebounding and defense. Overall a wash.
- PF: Keep O-Max here and I think he makes a big jump. I don't expect him to put up Justin's scoring numbers (usage won't be there) but I think he'll be an All-Big East caliber player.
- C: Oso taking this spot is another upgrade, IMO. He'll stay on the court more than Kur did and while he's not as good of a shot-blocker, he's a much better all around offensive player.
- Bench: Last year's top three bench players were Oso, Greg, and Kam. This year I would expect Wrightsil, Joplin, and Stevie to be those names, with Itejere most likely to push Oso for minutes (but I think Oso is a 28+ mpg guy). I think we have a better bench this year, with more experience both collegiately and in the system.
Overall: Better team than last year. Justin's loss will hurt, but I think team defense improves with experience and while we didn't bring a ton of new guys in, we did bring a ton of guys back. I also think anyone worried about "who will score" probably doesn't realize that scoring won't be a problem. I fully expect next year's team to be more efficient overall on the offensive end and could care less who scores, I just know that we will score and losing "go-to" options is not and historically has been a problem in the past. Defensively, we lose key defenders, but last year from the outset it was clear they were grooming guys to be the next Morsell, next Kuath types. The pieces are here and will have an extra year of experience and development. I see this as a top-half Big East team. Most likely top-5, ceiling top-3 alongside teams like Creighton and Xavier that I think are the favorites.
I like your optimism, brew, and you make a very good case for many players/positions here. I do need to see a lot of improvement from Kolek to think he'll be better than Morsell, and a lot of everything from Kam to believe he'll be "an offensive upgrade over Justin." But I sure hope we see it!
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Based on last years classifications, we've got 4 freshman, 7 guys entering their sophomore slump, and Zach Wrightsil.
I'm going with outlook: Reply hazy, try again.
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Based on last years classifications, we've got 4 freshman, 7 guys entering their sophomore slump, and Zach Wrightsil.
I'm going with outlook: Reply hazy, try again.
That's pretty smart thinking on your part, rocky, given that you're only a freshman.
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As discussed earlier, I am not sure 15 pounds is going to make Oso a better player. He has not shown an instinct on rebounding the ball, I hope this summer he develops an offensive game other then a dunk. I see this happening in the lineup, Wrightsel, Omax, Gold in the frontline with Kolek, Jones and Jones fighting for the 2 guard spots. Add Mitchell, Joplin and Oso as first backups.
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Marquette no longer in Jon Rothstein’s Top 45. Disappointing. Optimistically MU can make the Big Dance yet but realistically MU has lost more than MU has gained. Frustrating.
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Marquette no longer in Jon Rothstein’s Top 45. Disappointing. Optimistically MU can make the Big Dance yet but realistically MU has lost more than MU has gained. Frustrating.
When Shaka came here he stressed he is going to recruit guys who want to be here in his team's vision of culture. The fact that he didn't dip deeply into the transfer drug market is a good sign to me as that tells me he has "his guys" here.
Does this mean that this won't be a rebuilding year? No. But I expect in my outlook that this team will be better at the end of the season than the team that ended last season.
What "frustrated" me most last season was the team that ended was not a very good one.
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When Shaka came here he stressed he is going to recruit guys who want to be here in his team's vision of culture. The fact that he didn't dip deeply into the transfer drug market is a good sign to me as that tells me he has "his guys" here.
Does this mean that this won't be a rebuilding year? No. But I expect in my outlook that this team will be better at the end of the season than the team that ended last season.
What "frustrated" me most last season was the team that ended was not a very good one.
When Shaka came to Marquette. I expected that it would take three seasons to get us in the top three of the BE. If we finish the season stronger than we start it, alleluia! Hopefully, we are at least in the middle of the BE at season's end and we may be much better than that.
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This team will not be lazy. Ball in. Check.
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transfer drug market
Really?
As discussed earlier, I am not sure 15 pounds is going to make Oso a better player. He has not shown an instinct on rebounding the ball, I hope this summer he develops an offensive game other then a dunk. I see this happening in the lineup, Wrightsel, Omax, Gold in the frontline with Kolek, Jones and Jones fighting for the 2 guard spots. Add Mitchell, Joplin and Oso as first backups.
I'd love to see Gold earn a starting spot over Oso. That would mean Gold's pretty darn good, and it would be a positive statement about MU's depth.
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Really?
I'd love to see Gold earn a starting spot over Oso. That would mean Gold's pretty darn good, and it would be a positive statement about MU's depth.
When you are trying to build a culture as Shaka said, do you really want to become dependent on the new one and done designer drug? That's quite a message to returning players who put in the work only to be recruited over every year.
So to answer your question, yes.
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When you are trying to build a culture as Shaka said, do you really want to become dependent on the new one and done designer drug? That's quite a message to returning players who put in the work only to be recruited over every year.
So to answer your question, yes.
Who says they have to be one and dones? Cooley brought in a redshirt freshman and two sophs among his transfers this year. Shaka brought in two Covid freshmen last year. The transfer portal isn't just filled with senior and grad transfers.
As far as sending a message to returning players, I don't see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc, backing off on their recruiting in deference to their current rosters. Coaches who want to win simply don't take a pass on a better player out of some sense of loyalty to their current roster.
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I think the answer is the Shaka believes he can develop someone into a better player, who understands what Shaka wants, than he can get in the portal.
Time will tell if he is correct.
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When you are trying to build a culture as Shaka said, do you really want to become dependent on the new one and done designer drug? That's quite a message to returning players who put in the work only to be recruited over every year.
So to answer your question, yes.
As a fan, I hope that our coach uses every option at his disposal to make Marquette a contender for conference titles and deep NCAA tournament runs.
So yes, I want him to recruit very good high school players with high upsides who will be around for multiple seasons; I want him to recruit the occasional 5-star or high-4-star who might leave after a year or two; I want him to bring in transfers who are likely to be around for more than one season; and I want him to bring in talented single-season transfers who fit the "culture" he's building (with Morsell being a good example).
I believe that if a coach is to be successful in today's college basketball environment, he needs to be willing and able to operate on all of those recruiting levels.
So far, based strictly on grades (which I know can be inaccurate), Shaka has only been OK in this regard. I have high hopes that he'll do better.
I disagree that it's a "drug" to bring in the right 1-year player, and I trust Shaka to properly define "right" for his system.
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When you are trying to build a culture as Shaka said, do you really want to become dependent on the new one and done designer drug? That's quite a message to returning players who put in the work only to be recruited over every year.
So to answer your question, yes.
I think coaches are always trying to recruit players better than their current roster.
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Marquette Basketball just posted on IG of a workout this morning and I'll say this...these guys look built.
The concerns some on here have of being to small or weak might not be as big of a problem as you once thought. These guys have all clearly developed physically from where they once were.
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Yeah it sure looks like Shaka is pushing more of a Buzz style summer program, pretty noticeable gains on the returning guys.
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Good thing we’ve got LIU on the schedule!
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Marquette Basketball just posted on IG of a workout this morning and I'll say this...these guys look built.
The concerns some on here have of being to small or weak might not be as big of a problem as you once thought. These guys have all clearly developed physically from where they once were.
We did not look weak last year until we got into the Big East. It is hard to compare players strength until you see them on the floor with other power 6 teams.
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crap - not in Rothstein’s Top 45? Might as well cancel the season. Or maybe wait until Value Add and Kenpom confirm this.
Marquette no longer in Jon Rothstein’s Top 45. Disappointing. Optimistically MU can make the Big Dance yet but realistically MU has lost more than MU has gained. Frustrating.
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crap - not in Rothstein’s Top 45? Might as well cancel the season. Or maybe wait until Value Add and Kenpom confirm this.
Can’t wait to see where KenPom pre-season has them. Always a good indicator of what to expect and what will need to happen for them to be a top team. It’s why head coaches use KenPom among other reasons.
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Can’t wait to see where KenPom pre-season has them. Always a good indicator of what to expect and what will need to happen for them to be a top team. It’s why head coaches use KenPom among other reasons.
Hoops Explorer has Marquette 48th. (more defense focused)
Bartorvik has Marquette 62nd. (more offense focused)
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1532735181215391747?s=21&t=W1yGN2hV0Mn8ZNxGAiv_GQ
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Hoops Explorer has Marquette 48th. (more defense focused)
Bartorvik has Marquette 62nd. (more offense focused)
With Lewis I felt the best we would do would be one and done again.
Without Lewis this is still the best we will do. We just have less chance to get a bid to lose in first round without Lewis.
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1532735181215391747?s=21&t=W1yGN2hV0Mn8ZNxGAiv_GQ
Keeyan Itejere is huge. He did some incredible work during his Redshirt season. Good for him.
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Keeyan Itejere is huge. He did some incredible work during his Redshirt season. Good for him.
He’ll need to careful to not hit his head on the rim. Easy hops for that young man.
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Keeyan Itejere is huge. He did some incredible work during his Redshirt season. Good for him.
That is some insane athleticism. 😳 :-[
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Keeyan's athleticism has been described by MU players and coaches in much the same way as Gold's athleticism. Keeyan as a decathlete. Gold as a great rugby player or possible track olympian before. he grew to 6'10.
The question isn't speed or athleticism. The question is whether they can hold their own down low and rebound.
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Keeyan's athleticism has been described by MU players and coaches in much the same way as Gold's athleticism. Keeyan as a decathlete. Gold as a great rugby player or possible track olympian before. he grew to 6'10.
The question isn't speed or athleticism. The question is whether they can hold their own down low and rebound.
No question about that Tower. Skilled basketball players who can get the job done are needed first and foremost. But off the chart athleticism can’t hurt.
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Agreed. Off the charts athleticism is a great building block. But they will have to guard 6'11, 250. Conversely, if MU is able to rebound and push tempo, 6'11, 250 will have to try to keep up with their sprint up the floor.
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Keeyan's athleticism has been described by MU players and coaches in much the same way as Gold's athleticism. Keeyan as a decathlete. Gold as a great rugby player or possible track olympian before. he grew to 6'10.
The question isn't speed or athleticism. The question is whether they can hold their own down low and rebound.
I think the expectations for a player who has spent a year training in a high major program should be different than for one who has reportedly ( according to coach Smith) played very limited games due to Covid that last two years. The baseline athletics can only help ease the transition.
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With Lewis I felt the best we would do would be one and done again.
Without Lewis this is still the best we will do. We just have less chance to get a bid to lose in first round without Lewis.
This doesn’t make much sense.
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Agreed. Off the charts athleticism is a great building block. But they will have to guard 6'11, 250. Conversely, if MU is able to rebound and push tempo, 6'11, 250 will have to try to keep up with their sprint up the floor.
I’m far too lazy to look at the rosters of team’s we’ll be playing but are we really going to face many 6’11, 250:guys?
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I assume so. But I don't know for certain.
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This doesn’t make much sense.
If you say it in Eeyore's voice, it starts becoming more clear.
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This doesn’t make much sense.
Sure it does. With or without Lewis in my opinion the best MU could do this coming season is a first round NCAA loss.
The only difference Lewis would of made was increasing our chance to make the tournament.
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Sure it does. With or without Lewis in my opinion the best MU could do this coming season is a first round NCAA loss.
The only difference Lewis would of made was increasing our chance to make the tournament.
It is quite literally impossible to speculate how far they could go in an NCAA tournament on June 3rd. We don't even know what we have yet.
I think it's quite likely they are in the 5-7 range again with a shot at a bid due to the fact that they return everyone they were supposed to. Development and retention are real and Shaka develops.
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It is quite literally impossible to speculate how far they could go in an NCAA tournament on June 3rd. We don't even know what we have yet.
I think it's quite likely they are in the 5-7 range again with a shot at a bid due to the fact that they return everyone they were supposed to. Development and retention are real and Shaka develops.
Definitely not literally impossible to speculate how far the team can go in the NCAA Tournament.
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I’m far too lazy to look at the rosters of team’s we’ll be playing but are we really going to face many 6’11, 250:guys?
NM Brewcity did the research in the next post
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I’m far too lazy to look at the rosters of team’s we’ll be playing but are we really going to face many 6’11, 250:guys?
Here's what projected starting bigs are listed at:
Manny Bates, Butler: 6'11" 230
Adama Sanogo, Connecticut: 6'9" 240
Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton: 7'1" 256
Nick Ongenda, DePaul: 6'11" 210
Qudus Wahab, Georgetown: 6'11" 240
Oso Ighodaro, Marquette: 6'9" 215
Clifton Moore, Providence: 6'10" 240
Tray Jackson, Seton Hall: 6'10" 210
Joel Soriano, St John's: 6'11" 255
Jack Nunge, Xavier: 7'0" 245
Eric Dixon, Villanova: 6'8" 255
At a glance, my hope is that he's been able to add 15 pounds of muscle this year. Especially as Keeyan Itejere is listed at 6'9" 205.
Typically, Shaka has recruited beefier guys at the 5. Jericho Sims, Will Baker, and Dylan Osetkowski were more in that 6'10" 240 mold.
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It is quite literally impossible to speculate how far they could go in an NCAA tournament on June 3rd. We don't even know what we have yet.
I think it's quite likely they are in the 5-7 range again with a shot at a bid due to the fact that they return everyone they were supposed to. Development and retention are real and Shaka develops.
I agree with much of your thesis here, but it is literally easy to speculate on how far Marquette can go in the NCAA tournament.
It's literally easy to speculate on anything because it's speculation, not fact.
I literally can speculate that you'll be the next president of the United States. You probably won't get elected (you're too young), but any of us literally can speculate about it or anything else.
Literally has literally become the most misused (and overused) word in the English language.
I did like your inclusion of "quite" before "literally," though.
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Sure it does. With or without Lewis in my opinion the best MU could do this coming season is a first round NCAA loss.
The only difference Lewis would of made was increasing our chance to make the tournament.
Thank you for explaining again. It still doesn’t make any sense.
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I assume the magical Kenpom ratings will have the Badgers in the 3-7 range to start the season.
Instead of Kenpom, we really just need team NIL spending rankings to understand how teams will perform this year.
Can’t wait to see where KenPom pre-season has them. Always a good indicator of what to expect and what will need to happen for them to be a top team. It’s why head coaches use KenPom among other reasons.
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Who says they have to be one and dones? Cooley brought in a redshirt freshman and two sophs among his transfers this year. Shaka brought in two Covid freshmen last year. The transfer portal isn't just filled with senior and grad transfers.
As far as sending a message to returning players, I don't see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc, backing off on their recruiting in deference to their current rosters. Coaches who want to win simply don't take a pass on a better player out of some sense of loyalty to their current roster.
There are different ways to build a team but Scoop needs to pay attention to Shaka's words how he plans to build his culture at MU. Scoopers had MU chasing every transfers out there. Yet, Shaka grabbed only one, and that one was for the spot he knew he was going to have open. He has also left a spot open.
He also moved on from Greg (even leaving that spot still open), leaving Oso the only player who played for Wojo (although Shaka recruited him). Follow the words and actions people.
Yet, Scoop debates me when I simply reiterate that Shaka is doing what he said he was going to do: Build a culture based on trust and relationships, not skirt chasing every transfer out there to supplant kids who bought into what Shaka was selling.
We will see how that works in Year 2.
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Dr. B
I agree and am confident it will pay off. I am not disappointed at all with the makeup of the team going into next season.
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Dr. B
I agree and am confident it will pay off. I am not disappointed at all with the makeup of the team going into next season.
I like your optimism as usual, Goose, and I agree with much of it.
But I do believe you said not all that long ago that you'd be very disappointed if Shaka didn't bring in a transfer to do what Morsell did last season. Unless I'm misremembering, which is possible.
Lewis and Morsell won't be easy to replace, but I'm hopeful that Shaka can get the absolute most out of the players we do have, that those kids will work very hard to improve, and that a year in the system will make everything work better.
It'll be a huge season for Shaka and the program. It would not be a good look if we "take a step back," and I don't think we will as long as the players we're counting on to make major improvements do actually improve majorly.
We Are Marquette!
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He might bring in someone to replace Morsell, but if not I trust his judgement. If we take a step back, I will be very disappointed. This is Shaka’s team and a full offseason to get the guys ready.
Getting back to replacing Morsell, I fully expected a transfer out and that did not happen. My gut says Shaka feels the returning guards are up to the task.
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I assume the magical Kenpom ratings will have the Badgers in the 3-7 range to start the season.
Instead of Kenpom, we really just need team NIL spending rankings to understand how teams will perform this year.
KenPom is used by head coaches, so I’ll trust what I see there versus people mocking his numbers.
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Here's what projected starting bigs are listed at:
Manny Bates, Butler: 6'11" 230
Adama Sanogo, Connecticut: 6'9" 240
Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton: 7'1" 256
Nick Ongenda, DePaul: 6'11" 210
Qudus Wahab, Georgetown: 6'11" 240
Oso Ighodaro, Marquette: 6'9" 215
Clifton Moore, Providence: 6'10" 240
Tray Jackson, Seton Hall: 6'10" 210
Joel Soriano, St John's: 6'11" 255
Jack Nunge, Xavier: 7'0" 245
Eric Dixon, Villanova: 6'8" 255
At a glance, my hope is that he's been able to add 15 pounds of muscle this year. Especially as Keeyan Itejere is listed at 6'9" 205.
Typically, Shaka has recruited beefier guys at the 5. Jericho Sims, Will Baker, and Dylan Osetkowski were more in that 6'10" 240 mold.
Either Sanogo is shorter than 6'9" or he's heavier than 240. I find it hard to believe that if he is a true 6'9" he's only 240. He is a big fella.
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Instead of Kenpom, we really just need team NIL spending rankings to understand how teams will perform this year.
That would be the best indicator of future results.
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He might bring in someone to replace Morsell, but if not I trust his judgement. If we take a step back, I will be very disappointed. This is Shaka’s team and a full offseason to get the guys ready.
Getting back to replacing Morsell, I fully expected a transfer out and that did not happen. My gut says Shaka feels the returning guards are up to the task.
I fully expect a “step back”. Maybe not a huge one but I don’t think next year will be as good as last year. Shaka had the luxury of two studs in his first year. Culture does not take hold in a year. It takes time. I for one am willing to give Shaka next year to really build it with his guys recognizing that they are still young and need time to mature and fully grow into what Shaka is building. Of course, I will be delighted to be proven wrong but will be understanding if I’m right.
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He might bring in someone to replace Morsell, but if not I trust his judgement. If we take a step back, I will be very disappointed. This is Shaka’s team and a full offseason to get the guys ready.
Getting back to replacing Morsell, I fully expected a transfer out and that did not happen. My gut says Shaka feels the returning guards are up to the task.
That's all reasonable, Goose. Of course, if he wasn't able to land any of his targets, Shaka has little choice but to feel the returning guards are up for it. But maybe he just said, "I love what we have here" and stopped looking.
I fully expect a “step back”. Maybe not a huge one but I don’t think next year will be as good as last year. Shaka had the luxury of two studs in his first year. Culture does not take hold in a year. It takes time. I for one am willing to give Shaka next year to really build it with his guys recognizing that they are still young and need time to mature and fully grow into what Shaka is building. Of course, I will be delighted to be proven wrong but will be understanding if I’m right.
Who was the second stud? Morsell? Shaka benched him in multiple games. We had one stud IMHO, and now he's gone.
But it is a coach's job to help returning players take that next step, and I have confidence Shaka and his assistants will do so with several of our guys.
I also will "give" Shaka next season ... but what choice do either of us have?
The only definition of a "step back" from last season would be missing the NCAA tournament (or worse, having a losing record), and I'd be pretty disappointed with that.
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Replacing Morsell and Lewis does not concern me as much as the center position. Oso was a very good backup center. I am not sure he will be a great starter. We need significant help at center from at least one of Gold, Wrightsil or Itejere.
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I agree the center position for MU looks troubling, Oso even with another few pounds to me is on the bottom of the list. I can see Wrightsil, Gold and Omax playing and Oso watching them most of the time. Oso will get his chance, but he needs to learn how to rebound and have some more skills other then dunking. I hate dunking highlights, every team in America has kids that are impressive dunkers. I have seen Itejere dunk on video many times, is that all he can do?
Show me he has improved his outside shot if he has one.
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Replacing Morsell and Lewis does not concern me as much as the center position. Oso was a very good backup center. I am not sure he will be a great starter. We need significant help at center from at least one of Gold, Wrightsil or Itejere.
Kuath also was a good backup center.
I'm not gonna get all worried about stuff 5 months before the season starts. And even then, there's nothing I can do about it.
Now that I've already made my $3.5 million contribution to the NIL collective, that is.
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I agree the center position for MU looks troubling, Oso even with another few pounds to me is on the bottom of the list. I can see Wrightsil, Gold and Omax playing and Oso watching them most of the time. Oso will get his chance, but he needs to learn how to rebound and have some more skills other then dunking. I hate dunking highlights, every team in America has kids that are impressive dunkers. I have seen Itejere dunk on video many times, is that all he can do?
Show me he has improved his outside shot if he has one.
Oso was a good FT shooter for a big man so that gives me some hope he can hit the 10-15 footer. Whether or not he gets the green light and that becomes part of his game, we’ll see.
I do feel some are being a bit too hard on him. A big jump from his this season wouldn’t shock me. Regardless, we need him to be better, especially on the boards.
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When comparing next year's team to last season, first question is - which team from last season are we comparing to ? If it's to the team that played from Jan 4 to Feb 2 - no way next year's team will be as good as that one. If it's to the team that played the last 9 games after Feb 2 - I hope and expect next year will be much better than that team. If not, MU will be battling to stay out of the Big East basement.
When the season ended, I think a majority felt that for next year MU needed a talent upgrade that would come from the portal. It's not quite over yet, but that does not appear to be happening. We were reported to have reached out to a lot of guys, but apparently without much success. Did potential NIL opportunities impact this ? We really don't know.
So we have to rely mainly on big improvements from the current guys, which will take longer. I think we are probably yet another season away from having a team that can be in the top half of the Big East or win a game in the NCAA tournament.
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Analytics showed Marquette sucked at rebounding last year, why did Shaka not use that knowledge to make his team better?
KenPom is used by head coaches, so I’ll trust what I see there versus people mocking his numbers.
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Analytics showed Marquette sucked at rebounding last year, why did Shaka not use that knowledge to make his team better?
Because he’s never valued rebounding as evidenced by his history as a head coach.
He values other analytics
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Analytics showed Marquette sucked at rebounding last year, why did Shaka not use that knowledge to make his team better?
Because his teams are not structured to focus on rebounding.
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There are different ways to build a team but Scoop needs to pay attention to Shaka's words how he plans to build his culture at MU. Scoopers had MU chasing every transfers out there. Yet, Shaka grabbed only one, and that one was for the spot he knew he was going to have open. He has also left a spot open.
He also moved on from Greg (even leaving that spot still open), leaving Oso the only player who played for Wojo (although Shaka recruited him). Follow the words and actions people.
Yet, Scoop debates me when I simply reiterate that Shaka is doing what he said he was going to do: Build a culture based on trust and relationships, not skirt chasing every transfer out there to supplant kids who bought into what Shaka was selling.
We will see how that works in Year 2.
I’ve seen people say this time and time again and it’s just not even close to true. We have a 60+ page thread full of transfer targets Shaka and co. reached out to. Will we ever know how many ever went beyond “check-in” stage? No. But the reality is Shaka was in on and didnt close on any high level transfers we reached out to.
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I’ve seen people say this time and time again and it’s just not even close to true. We have a 60+ page thread full of transfer targets Shaka and co. reached out to. Will we ever know how many ever went beyond “check-in” stage? No. But the reality is Shaka was in on and didnt close on any high level transfers we reached out to.
They only really tried with 3-5 guys and got one of them. Aimaq early, Gainey, Zach Wrightisil who is coming, Warren Washington, and Efe abogidi kinda* (they rather have Lewis).
Sending a phone call to a nijel pack level guys/ local kids is not a "recruitment". So maybe let be less dramatic than saying "60 pages of scoop posts".
Their scope of recruiting targets was rather small. They only tried to get commitments from 4s and 5s. Top 50 transfers. All guys who would leave after 1 season.
I do think at a some point Shaka will talk with certain guys who will leave the program for playing time, so the "building culture thing" is slightly overblown. But the notion that this staff was desperate for change is BS. They have only contacted near pros with there 13th scholarship. The staff is demonstrating they are rather content.
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I agree the center position for MU looks troubling, Oso even with another few pounds to me is on the bottom of the list. I can see Wrightsil, Gold and Omax playing and Oso watching them most of the time. Oso will get his chance, but he needs to learn how to rebound and have some more skills other then dunking. I hate dunking highlights, every team in America has kids that are impressive dunkers. I have seen Itejere dunk on video many times, is that all he can do?
Show me he has improved his outside shot if he has one.
If you think Oso only "dunked"
Not sure what you watched last year
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They only really tried with 3-5 guys and got one of them. Aimaq early, Gainey, Zach Wrightisil who is coming, Warren Washington, and Efe abogidi kinda* (they rather have Lewis).
Sending a phone call to a nijel pack level guys/ local kids is not a "recruitment". So maybe let be less dramatic than saying "60 pages of scoop posts".
Their scope of recruiting targets was rather small. They only tried to get commitments from 4s and 5s. Top 50 transfers. All guys who would leave after 1 season.
I do think at a some point Shaka will talk with certain guys who will leave the program for playing time, so the "building culture thing" is slightly overblown. But the notion that this staff was desperate for change is BS. They have only contacted near pros with there 13th scholarship. The staff is demonstrating they are rather content.
Absolutely baseless speculation from, with all due respect, someone who is not in the know (? unless there's something you'd like to share)
Now I am certainly no insider, but we have all seen tons of reports from many different journalists linking us to plenty more players than those listed above. Like I said in my previous post, the extent to which we pursued them we will never know. But my original point still stands.
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If you think Oso only "dunked"
Not sure what you watched last year
Ok, how was his shot from 10 feet? He got some layups, did not show me anything outside 5 feet. Decent passer, can roll to the basket. This is a new era of basketball,
I want my center to do more than that. If he could rebound like Pat Smith, then fine, but he does not have the instincts yet to go after the ball. Saw many good block
outs, but has to retrieve the ball. Hope he proves me wrong, as in the Big East you need a center. This is why I see Gold, Wrightsil, and Omax getting solid playing time,
if not Gold then Joplin. Did he outplay any centers last year? Not in my mind, plays way to soft. Really is a wing in body type, playing center.
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Ok, how was his shot from 10 feet? He got some layups, did not show me anything outside 5 feet. Decent passer, can roll to the basket. This is a new era of basketball,
I want my center to do more than that. If he could rebound like Pat Smith, then fine, but he does not have the instincts yet to go after the ball. Saw many good block
outs, but has to retrieve the ball. Hope he proves me wrong, as in the Big East you need a center. This is why I see Gold, Wrightsil, and Omax getting solid playing time,
if not Gold then Joplin. Did he outplay any centers last year? Not in my mind, plays way to soft. Really is a wing in body type, playing center.
Yes, about half of them. Including our starting center. Oso was the only marquette player to get to the FT line at a decent rate. It resulted in having a 124.4 eff on 14% usage. He had a top 150 block %. He was the only top 500 offensive rebounder on Marquette all year. He was the second best +- player on Marquette. And had the second best RAPM on the team.
Being worse than Kalkbrenner and Sanogo doesn't make you a bad center.
Big East Centers by RAPM
Kalkbrenner, Ryan 7.1
Nunge, Jack 6.8
Sanogo, Adama 6.3
Croswell, Ed 5.1
Dixon, Eric 4.9
Ighodaro, Oso 4.3
Yetna, Alexis 4
Anei, Yor 3.3
Watson, Nate 2.4
Kuath, Kur 2.2
Freemantle, Zach 1.8
Nyiwe, Esahia 1.6
Johnson, Brandon 1.5
Soriano, Joel 1.4
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Did he outplay any centers last year?
Well, for starters, Oso had a 4-game stretch in January where he averaged 14 ppg on 78% shooting against Kalkbrenner, Watson, Wilson and Anei.
I don't think too many people here are saying Oso is gonna be the Big East's next dominant big man. But he showed some potential during was essentially his freshman season, had some nice contributions to an NCAA tournament team, sealed one win with a block at the buzzer, put up 16-6 against Providence, blocked out well, and hopefully is working hard this offseason to get better.
I'd agree that his body type is not "ideal center" material, but there aren't many true centers anymore. I'd also agree with anybody who says we need better play at the 5 ... and every other position.
It will be interesting to see how Shaka handles the 5 this coming season.
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I would say Oso showed great improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore year, but being so slim he had trouble guarding maybe the top 8 centers last year. If he can take the next step, he might be adequate. He only averaged 3.3 rebounds a game, hope he doubles that. He is the quickest center in the league, if he had an outside shot, he will be able to get past all the centers in the Big East, blow bye. Time will tell but for MU to be good he will have to defend, and not be so soft.
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I would say Oso showed great improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore year, but being so slim he had trouble guarding maybe the top 8 centers last year. If he can take the next step, he might be adequate. He only averaged 3.3 rebounds a game, hope he doubles that. He is the quickest center in the league, if he had an outside shot, he will be able to get past all the centers in the Big East, blow bye. Time will tell but for MU to be good he will have to defend, and not be so soft.
I think defense can be taught - so most players can get better. But can that aggressive in-your-face defense be taught or iis that part of character already there or not? That is a question that mystifies me lol
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I'm more concerned with scoring from the guard spots.
I think Kolek playing off the ball will help, but Kam is the only proven guy to go out and get a bucket and he is a below the rim guy 100% of the time that is looking to score away from the hoop. We need a guard that can go get a bucket from anywhere on the floor, not necessarily above the rim, but at the rim.
Oso was better than Kur a lot of the time last year anyways and adding Gold, Wrightsil, Itejere AND sliding OMax and Joplin into the Justin role should be able to replace a lot of what we had last year from the 4/5.
There is a Darryl sized hole missing from the guard spot which is the missing piece at the moment.
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Candidates include Stevie, EE, Kam, Chase.
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Stevie looks like a linebacker right now. He's going to be a pest defensively on ball handlers.
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Kam is the only proven guy to go out and get a bucket and he is a below the rim guy 100% of the time that is looking to score away from the hoop.
Kam did take 143 shots from 3-point range vs. only 52 2s last season, but that's pretty far away from being a guy who only looks to take 3s. I remember a few aggressive drives by him, including one very exciting foray to the hoop that resulted in a beautiful up-and-under reverse.
So he obviously is capable of taking the ball to the rim, and maybe he'll do so more often if he earns an expanded role. His shooting percentage from 2-point range was more than 100 points higher than Kolek's and only a few points lower than Justin's.
I do agree with you that we don't have a guy right now who has proven to be capable of doing what Morsell did last season. Of course, a year ago, we didn't know that Morsell would be capable of taking over some games with his mid-range shooting; he was a non-scorer in 4 years at Maryland.
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Stevie looks like a linebacker right now. He's going to be a pest defensively on ball handlers.
Wow youre right about the linebacker comment. Will not be surprised if he is one of the 3 starting guards next year due to his defense and energy.
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Oso teamed up with Kolek to score on moves to the basket. I am not sure what Oso can do offensively, if you take the ball out of Kolek's hands.
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Kam did take 143 shots from 3-point range vs. only 52 2s last season, but that's pretty far away from being a guy who only looks to take 3s. I remember a few aggressive drives by him, including one very exciting foray to the hoop that resulted in a beautiful up-and-under reverse.
So he obviously is capable of taking the ball to the rim, and maybe he'll do so more often if he earns an expanded role. His shooting percentage from 2-point range was more than 100 points higher than Kolek's and only a few points lower than Justin's.
I do agree with you that we don't have a guy right now who has proven to be capable of doing what Morsell did last season. Of course, a year ago, we didn't know that Morsell would be capable of taking over some games with his mid-range shooting; he was a non-scorer in 4 years at Maryland.
I didn't say he only shoots 3s I said he plays below the rim. Even when he drives he primarily throws up a floater, which is fine, but he's not playing above the rim and because of that he's only going to be taking layups if they are wide open. Chase Ross is the one guard that can do that, but I'm not sure how much time he'll get in his 1st year.
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I didn't say he only shoots 3s I said he plays below the rim. Even when he drives he primarily throws up a floater, which is fine, but he's not playing above the rim and because of that he's only going to be taking layups if they are wide open. Chase Ross is the one guard that can do that, but I'm not sure how much time he'll get in his 1st year.
EE can also do that.
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Kam did take 143 shots from 3-point range vs. only 52 2s last season, but that's pretty far away from being a guy who only looks to take 3s. I remember a few aggressive drives by him, including one very exciting foray to the hoop that resulted in a beautiful up-and-under reverse.
So he obviously is capable of taking the ball to the rim, and maybe he'll do so more often if he earns an expanded role. His shooting percentage from 2-point range was more than 100 points higher than Kolek's and only a few points lower than Justin's.
I do agree with you that we don't have a guy right now who has proven to be capable of doing what Morsell did last season. Of course, a year ago, we didn't know that Morsell would be capable of taking over some games with his mid-range shooting; he was a non-scorer in 4 years at Maryland.
Kam attempted 73% of his shots from behind the arc. Highest ratio on the team.
He also had a meager 18 free throw attempts. Of scholarship players, only Joplin had fewer. If you go by free throw rate, Kam was worst on the team.
So, saying Kam was a 3 point specialist last year is accurate. Hopefully he expands his scoring repertoire this year.
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Kam attempted 73% of his shots from behind the arc. Highest ratio on the team.
He also had a meager 18 free throw attempts. Of scholarship players, only Joplin had fewer. If you go by free throw rate, Kam was worst on the team.
So, saying Kam was a 3 point specialist last year is accurate. Hopefully he expands his scoring repertoire this year.
He has the second best shot quality points per attempt on the team only behind Oso. He doesn't need to adjust attempts at all relative to the rest of his teammates.
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So, saying Kam was a 3 point specialist last year is accurate.
I wouldn't disagree, and I never suggested otherwise.
I didn't say he only shoots 3s I said he plays below the rim.
OK, thanks for amplifying the distinction. But one could say that about how many college guards -- 80% of them? 90%? 95%? More? Who was the last Marquette guard who played even 10% of his game "above the rim"? Wade?
Even Dennis Rodman played below the rim, and he might have been the best pound-for-pound rebounder in basketball history.
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He has the second best shot quality points per attempt on the team only behind Oso. He doesn't need to adjust attempts at all relative to the rest of his teammates.
I'm not saying Kam should shoot fewer 3s. I'm saying he should round out the rest of his offensive game. Being able to create high quality 2s and more free throws would make him a more a better offensive weapon.
His 3 point rate would naturally decline in this scenario.
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I'm not saying Kam should shoot fewer 3s. I'm saying he should round out the rest of his offensive game. Being able to create high quality 2s and more free throws would make him a more a better offensive weapon.
His 3 point rate would naturally decline in this scenario.
Is it possible that Shaka didn't want Kam to "round out his game" last season? I absolutely don't know the answer to that question -- just speculating, based on what we saw, that maybe Shaka wanted him to space the court by hanging out at the line vs. getting into the areas where Morsell, Lewis and O-Max worked. Then again, Elliott seemed to have the freedom to drive, sometimes to good results (including FTs), sometimes not.
If Kam has that in his game, I'd like to think he'll be encouraged to do it this season.
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Is it possible that Shaka didn't want Kam to "round out his game" last season? I absolutely don't know the answer to that question -- just speculating, based on what we saw, that maybe Shaka wanted him to space the court by hanging out at the line vs. getting into the areas where Morsell, Lewis and O-Max worked. Then again, Elliott seemed to have the freedom to drive, sometimes to good results (including FTs), sometimes not.
If Kam has that in his game, I'd like to think he'll be encouraged to do it this season.
Needs to get quicker to get to the hole, not sure how you work on that, except get stronger.
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I wouldn't disagree, and I never suggested otherwise.
OK, thanks for amplifying the distinction. But one could say that about how many college guards -- 80% of them? 90%? 95%? More? Who was the last Marquette guard who played even 10% of his game "above the rim"? Wade?
Even Dennis Rodman played below the rim, and he might have been the best pound-for-pound rebounder in basketball history.
10%? That ridiculously high.
You don't have to be above the rim all the time but when you're not capable your shots are always going to come away from the rim unless they are wide open, that's the point I was trying to make.
DJO, Vander Blue, Sacar, Carton, Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Dwyane Wade, Jimmy Butler are a handful of names who were at least capable of playing above the rim and didn't shy away from getting there.
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Is it possible that Shaka didn't want Kam to "round out his game" last season? I absolutely don't know the answer to that question -- just speculating, based on what we saw, that maybe Shaka wanted him to space the court by hanging out at the line vs. getting into the areas where Morsell, Lewis and O-Max worked. Then again, Elliott seemed to have the freedom to drive, sometimes to good results (including FTs), sometimes not.
If Kam has that in his game, I'd like to think he'll be encouraged to do it this season.
I don't think Shaka wanted Kam to force drives and take a bunch of midrange shots, if that's what you mean.
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You don't have to be above the rim all the time but when you're not capable your shots are always going to come away from the rim unless they are wide open, that's the point I was trying to make.
DJO, Vander Blue, Sacar, Carton, Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Dwyane Wade, Jimmy Butler are a handful of names who were at least capable of playing above the rim and didn't shy away from getting there.
That's fair.
I don't think Shaka wanted Kam to force drives and take a bunch of midrange shots, if that's what you mean.
Yes, that's what I mean. We'll see if Shaka encourages Kam to take it to the hoop more this season.
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Stevie looks like a linebacker right now. He's going to be a pest defensively on ball handlers.
Just saw that video. Stevie got jacked!
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But Scoopers told me Todd Smith is not doing his job...
Stevie looks like a linebacker right now. He's going to be a pest defensively on ball handlers.
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But Scoopers told me Todd Smith is not doing his job...
Scoop knows all!
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To be fair, that was one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Smith.
The same way that there's one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Kenpom and trashes him every chance he can.
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But Scoopers told me Todd Smith is not doing his job...
Did Stevie put on too much muscle and Todd ruined him?
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But Kenpom analytics do not take into account the quality of the strength and conditioning coach in year to year ratings - clearly a weakness...
To be fair, that was one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Smith.
The same way that there's one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Kenpom and trashes him every chance he can.
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Yep, you've got your three drums. Kenpom, COLE, and 50 pts. Just keep repeating them enough and people might start to take you seriously.
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To be fair, Stevie was built like a tank already last year. Guy was a hound as an on ball defender.
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You forgot the fourth - SilverWarrior's posts - I don't like them...
And the fifth - NCAA projections and discussing potential tourney matchups in pre-season, and prior to February...
Yep, you've got your three drums. Kenpom, COLE, and 50 pts. Just keep repeating them enough and people might start to take you seriously.
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You forgot the fourth - SilverWarrior's posts - I don't like them...
And the fifth - NCAA projections and discussing potential tourney matchups in pre-season, and prior to February...
Crapshoot
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To be fair, that was one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Smith.
The same way that there's one poster who seems to have a personal vendetta against Kenpom and trashes him every chance he can.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxRSBh0wXA0CugdiQokvx51BnjSP6RG_vN3Q&usqp=CAU)
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Some Marquette health updates from Shaka Smart today.
- Grad transfer Zach Wrightsil
had a knee scope soon after arriving but should be good in July.
- Tyler Kolek had an emergency appendectomy in May (but he wanted to play the next day). #mubb
Per Ben Steele
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Sounds like Oso had an incredible Spring and is going to be a focal point of the offense.
"He's going to handle the ball more than anyone that plays that position." Goes onto say "For bigs that want to have the ball in their hands, want to attack, want to make decisions, want to be playmakers, our style's great for that."
BIG things ahead for Oso!
https://twitter.com/DariusJoshuaTV/status/1537170281743233024?t=vSYH7zxgVma-Dskzc9jubg&s=19
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Sounds like Oso had an incredible Spring and is going to be a focal point of the offense.
"He's going to handle the ball more than anyone that plays that position." Goes onto say "For bigs that want to have the ball in their hands, want to attack, want to make decisions, want to be playmakers, our style's great for that."
BIG things ahead for Oso!
https://twitter.com/DariusJoshuaTV/status/1537170281743233024?t=vSYH7zxgVma-Dskzc9jubg&s=19
Big man bringing the ball up court. Just like Giannis, Luka, Jokic, Durant, Lebron and others do.
Next on Scoop, Oso getting drafted in 2023. Should be interesting concept, but hope he gets in and around basket after, this team will need the big man getting some rebounds.
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Are we going to pretend we didn't watch Oso play last year?
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He improved greatly over his first year. If he fills out and continues to improve at the same pace, why not?
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Are we going to pretend we didn't watch Oso play last year?
You can pretend whatever you want. Shaka said he's going to handle the ball more than any Center in the country. That's news whether you think so or not.
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He improved greatly over his first year. If he fills out and continues to improve at the same pace, why not?
I mean he never played his freshman year so it’s not really a reasonable benchmark to compare the two seasons.
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I would say going from 38 minutes for the season to 20-ish minutes per game is a great benchmark for comparison.
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I would say going from 38 minutes for the season to 20-ish minutes per game is a great benchmark for comparison.
How can you say he improved if he never played year 1 ? Last year was his first season of real game time.
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How can you say that going from non-contributor to contributor isn't improvement?
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How can you say that going from non-contributor to contributor isn't improvement?
This has all the makings of a classic ‘scoop argument
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Yes. Going from non-contributor to contributor is ipso facto proof of improvement.
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Yes. Going from non-contributor to contributor is ipso facto proof of improvement.
I’m with you.
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How can you say that going from non-contributor to contributor isn't improvement?
Justin Lewis improved greatly from freshman to sophomore year. Oso just never played his freshman year and this last season was his first season of game action.
Lots of promise and I’m sure he’ll be greatly improved after last season and this off season.
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How can you say he improved if he never played year 1 ? Last year was his first season of real game time.
Seriously?
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Seriously?
It’s not a knock on Oso. Just thought it was odd to say he greatly improved between years one and two when we saw nothing from him year one for various reasons.
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It’s not a knock on Oso. Just thought it was odd to say he greatly improved between years one and two when we saw nothing from him year one for various reasons.
With the obvious one being if he was good enough for significant minutes, he would've played. Especially on a team with a losing record that didn't have another center to spell Theo John.
What's odd to say is a guy going from virtually not playing to nearly 20 mpg not being an indicator of improvement.
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With the obvious one being if he was good enough for significant minutes, he would've played. Especially on a team with a losing record that didn't have another center to spell Theo John.
What's odd to say is a guy going from virtually not playing to nearly 20 mpg not being an indicator of improvement.
I just wouldn’t qualify his growth as “great improvement” between years one and two. He does have the skill set and showed flashes last year that he can be one of the big time growth guys next season.
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Oso went from not being good enough in practice to garner any PT for a lousy team in Year 1 to being a 20 mpg contributor for an NCAA tournament team in Year 2.
No improvement at all.
As for what he might or might not do in Year 3 … those were Shaka’s words, not some Scooper’s. I’m looking forward to seeing even more improvement from Oso in Year 3!
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The "Oso didn't have great improvement because he didn't play enough minutes despite not redshirting as a freshman" hill is certainly one of the strangest I've seen a Scooper get up on.
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The X factor is Wojo was a poor coach. Maybe he should have played his freshman year and we would have gotten similar production to this past year his freshman year and an even better year from him last year.
I have no stake in this game. Just throwing it out there for argument sake.
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The "Oso didn't have great improvement because he didn't play enough minutes despite not redshirting as a freshman" hill is certainly one of the strangest I've seen a Scooper get up on.
I’m fully aware this is a lame June level scoop semantics battle, but I just don’t think I would qualify his growth between years one and two as “great improvement.” Improvement sure, that’s a given, but great improvement seems quite generous.
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I’m fully aware this is a lame June level scoop semantics battle
And yet ...
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I saw a couple brief clips of that Shaka press conference but does anyone have a link to the full thing?
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Sounds like Oso had an incredible Spring and is going to be a focal point of the offense.
"He's going to handle the ball more than anyone that plays that position." Goes onto say "For bigs that want to have the ball in their hands, want to attack, want to make decisions, want to be playmakers, our style's great for that."
BIG things ahead for Oso!
https://twitter.com/DariusJoshuaTV/status/1537170281743233024?t=vSYH7zxgVma-Dskzc9jubg&s=19
Love that Shaka basically used a call to action in this interview: "For bigs that want to attack, have the ball in your hands, be a playmaker, make decisions, our style is great for that."
Oso could prove to have a huge impact on the court for the team, and a huge impact off it from a recruiting perspective by way of being able to showcase his usage/role in Shaka's system.
The Osa/O-Max/Kolek/Kam/Stevie core has a lot of potential.
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I just wouldn’t qualify his growth as “great improvement” between years one and two. He does have the skill set and showed flashes last year that he can be one of the big time growth guys next season.
This is a really strange hill to die on.
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Love that Shaka basically used a call to action in this interview: "For bigs that want to attack, have the ball in your hands, be a playmaker, make decisions, our style is great for that."
Oso could prove to have a huge impact on the court for the team, and a huge impact off it from a recruiting perspective by way of being able to showcase his usage/role in Shaka's system.
The Osa/O-Max/Kolek/Kam/Stevie core has a lot of potential.
Oso showed that in flashes last season. An ability to attack from the top of the key off of the dribble. Wasn't quite strong enough to finish, but I expect that will change this season.
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Love that Shaka basically used a call to action in this interview: "For bigs that want to attack, have the ball in your hands, be a playmaker, make decisions, our style is great for that."
Oso could prove to have a huge impact on the court for the team, and a huge impact off it from a recruiting perspective by way of being able to showcase his usage/role in Shaka's system.
The Osa/O-Max/Kolek/Kam/Stevie core has a lot of potential.
I liked that as well Elon. If the bigs perform well this year it would be a huge recruiting platform. Add Sean Jones (just have a good feeling, nothing more) to your core and I agree with that as well. Sincerely hope that is not wishful thinking on my part. This season will tell us a ton as to how the Shaka tenure will go. I’m genuinely excited to find out.
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This is a really strange hill to die on.
Even by Scoop standards, it's pretty wild.
As a freshman, Oso couldn't get on the court for a team that had only the second losing season at Marquette in the 21st Century. He only got minutes in 5 games, and 68% of his minutes came in 3 games against sub-100 teams. His career high in scoring was 4 points and he had just 6 total for the entire season. Then as a sophomore, he played in all 32 games, exceeding his previous high in minutes 27 times, matching or exceeding his previous career high in scoring 20 times, and matching or exceeding his freshman season scoring total in 12 single games. And he did all that for a NCAA Tournament team. And was 2nd in the conference in 2PFG% (behind only Kuath) and 4th in Big East Offensive Rating.
As a freshman, the minutes were there to be had. When Theo John came out, Dawson had to rotate to the 5 because we didn't have any other backup centers that could get on the court. And he clearly wasn't redshirting since he did play 38 minutes, so if he was good enough, there was no reason not to play him.
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Even by Scoop standards, it's pretty wild.
As a freshman, Oso couldn't get on the court for a team that had only the second losing season at Marquette in the 21st Century. He only got minutes in 5 games, and 68% of his minutes came in 3 games against sub-100 teams. His career high in scoring was 4 points and he had just 6 total for the entire season. Then as a sophomore, he played in all 32 games, exceeding his previous high in minutes 27 times, matching or exceeding his previous career high in scoring 20 times, and matching or exceeding his freshman season scoring total in 12 single games. And he did all that for a NCAA Tournament team. And was 2nd in the conference in 2PFG% (behind only Kuath) and 4th in Big East Offensive Rating.
As a freshman, the minutes were there to be had. When Theo John came out, Dawson had to rotate to the 5 because we didn't have any other backup centers that could get on the court. And he clearly wasn't redshirting since he did play 38 minutes, so if he was good enough, there was no reason not to play him.
How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
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Love that Shaka basically used a call to action in this interview: "For bigs that want to attack, have the ball in your hands, be a playmaker, make decisions, our style is great for that."
Oso could prove to have a huge impact on the court for the team, and a huge impact off it from a recruiting perspective by way of being able to showcase his usage/role in Shaka's system.
The Osa/O-Max/Kolek/Kam/Stevie core has a lot of potential.
I agree with this analysis
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How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
(https://i.imgflip.com/4wj1o8.jpg)
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How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
Because if he was good enough to play, he would have. That was a bad team with little depth at his position. Not only that, but along with his minutes going up, his tempo-free numbers like offensive rating, usage, offensive and defensive rebounding percentages, block rate, and free throw rate all went up too.
All the numbers strongly point to significant improvement being the reason he was able to played far more minutes for a better team. If you have some evidence that proves Oso was just as good but misused by Wojo, I'm happy to see it, but without evidence to support your unsupported claim, I just don't see why you have picked this very strange hill to fight and die on.
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Because if he was good enough to play, he would have. That was a bad team with little depth at his position. Not only that, but along with his minutes going up, his tempo-free numbers like offensive rating, usage, offensive and defensive rebounding percentages, block rate, and free throw rate all went up too.
All the numbers strongly point to significant improvement being the reason he was able to played far more minutes for a better team. If you have some evidence that proves Oso was just as good but misused by Wojo, I'm happy to see it, but without evidence to support your unsupported claim, I just don't see why you have picked this very strange hill to fight and die on.
panda often has decent takes, but he is one of the handful of Scoopers who will never, ever, ever, ever back down, even when he has a bad take. It's just who he is.
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Because if he was good enough to play, he would have. That was a bad team with little depth at his position. Not only that, but along with his minutes going up, his tempo-free numbers like offensive rating, usage, offensive and defensive rebounding percentages, block rate, and free throw rate all went up too.
All the numbers strongly point to significant improvement being the reason he was able to played far more minutes for a better team. If you have some evidence that proves Oso was just as good but misused by Wojo, I'm happy to see it, but without evidence to support your unsupported claim, I just don't see why you have picked this very strange hill to fight and die on.
Or Wojo sold the farm to get Carton and Garcia, promised them lead roles and prominent minutes so that in essence shortens his bench and limits the potential rotation combos he can utilize.
They also shelved him after his injury so he didn’t play a minute for half the conference season.
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Or Wojo sold the farm to get Carton and Garcia, promised them lead roles and prominent minutes so that in essence shortens his bench and limits the potential rotation combos he can utilize.
They also shelved him after his injury so he didn’t play a minute for half the conference season.
By which time he had played just 38 of 725 available minutes. 5.2% of the available minutes. Fewer than Dexter Akanno, he of the 44.5 ORtg, had played to that point. Even Jose Perez, who was clearly outclassed and not remotely a Big East player, carved out a far bigger role on that awful team. And both of those bad players got those minutes while Carton and Garcia were both playing, so your argument doesn't hold water.
Again, provide the EVIDENCE as to Oso's lack of improvement. The numbers say he improved. The minutes say he improved. Performing better on a better team says he improved. If you have proof to the contrary, have at it. Otherwise, it's just a...how did you say it..."lame June level Scoop semantics battle" that you clearly have no ability to wage.
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How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
This has strong "we should play the back-up more" vibes.
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Oso did miss time with a foot injury.
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It’s not a knock on Oso. Just thought it was odd to say he greatly improved between years one and two when we saw nothing from him year one for various reasons.
Not sure, but I thought Oso had some kind of injury problem that limited his playing time as a freshmen.
Lewis missed 7 games and was ineffective when he came back.
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Not sure, but I thought Oso had some kind of injury problem that limited his playing time as a freshmen.
Huh. I wonder where you heard that?
Oso did miss time with a foot injury.
They also shelved him after his injury so he didn’t play a minute for half the conference season.
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Huh. I wonder where you heard that?
I am pretty sure Wojo said something about it. Most likely read it on MUscoop.
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I am pretty sure Wojo said something about it. Most likely read it on MUscoop.
It was in an Athletic article taking about Shaka's team.
"Redshirt freshman Oso Ighodaro is a former top-150 recruit from Phoenix. He played limited minutes as a freshman at Marquette last season and missed the last nine games with a foot injury, but he has a ranging variety of skills that could expand his playing time as Kuath’s backup. He’s 6-foot-10 and 215 pounds, but is strong enough to play through contact".
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It was in an Athletic article taking about Shaka's team.
"Redshirt freshman Oso Ighodaro is a former top-150 recruit from Phoenix. He played limited minutes as a freshman at Marquette last season and missed the last nine games with a foot injury, but he has a ranging variety of skills that could expand his playing time as Kuath’s backup. He’s 6-foot-10 and 215 pounds, but is strong enough to play through contact".
I know. I pointed out that it was stated multiple time by posters in the topic, including by tower in the post just above yours.
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By which time he had played just 38 of 725 available minutes. 5.2% of the available minutes. Fewer than Dexter Akanno, he of the 44.5 ORtg, had played to that point. Even Jose Perez, who was clearly outclassed and not remotely a Big East player, carved out a far bigger role on that awful team. And both of those bad players got those minutes while Carton and Garcia were both playing, so your argument doesn't hold water.
Again, provide the EVIDENCE as to Oso's lack of improvement. The numbers say he improved. The minutes say he improved. Performing better on a better team says he improved. If you have proof to the contrary, have at it. Otherwise, it's just a...how did you say it..."lame June level Scoop semantics battle" that you clearly have no ability to wage.
I just don’t understand how you can make a declarative statement about such an inconclusive freshman season that we know effected by injury. He could’ve been injured earlier than what was publicly announced which explains limited playing time ?
Either way, I just don’t think he showed “great improvement” from freshman to sophomore year because of the inconclusiveness of his year one performance. Now do I think he’s poised for a breakout “great improvement” season this year? Given his skill set and opportunity for minutes, absolutely.
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How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
Wow.
(https://c.tenor.com/Z7SfDTDhS5IAAAAd/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-migraine.gif)
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Anyway....
Shaka seems enthused about the work Oso has put in. Shaka clearly has plans for Oso and his skill set going forward.
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How do you know if he improved if he never played? He was dealing with injuries for a chunk of his first year. Maybe his overall performance this year wouldn’t have been much different than his freshman year if he played similar minutes ?
Not a chance of this with that 2020 staff. Every single player on that roster underperformed with the lone
exception of Dawson.
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Love that Shaka basically used a call to action in this interview: "For bigs that want to attack, have the ball in your hands, be a playmaker, make decisions, our style is great for that."
Oso could prove to have a huge impact on the court for the team, and a huge impact off it from a recruiting perspective by way of being able to showcase his usage/role in Shaka's system.
The Osa/O-Max/Kolek/Kam/Stevie core has a lot of potential.
They have a lot of intriguing lineups they could use this year. I expect Sean Jones to play a lot, maybe even more than Kam's 18.5 minutes per game last season. But...
If they really do plan on using Oso a lot as a decision maker I think a lineup of Oso/OMax/Joplin/Kolek/Kam could be pretty strong offensively. Oso surrounded by another PG and all shooters. That possibility of that lineup will all come down to how well they advance defensively because if that group figures out how to defend it could be really strong.
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I just don’t understand how you can make a declarative statement about such an inconclusive freshman season that we know effected by injury. He could’ve been injured earlier than what was publicly announced which explains limited playing time ?
Either way, I just don’t think he showed “great improvement” from freshman to sophomore year because of the inconclusiveness of his year one performance. Now do I think he’s poised for a breakout “great improvement” season this year? Given his skill set and opportunity for minutes, absolutely.
Here's the relevant part: Again, provide the EVIDENCE as to Oso's lack of improvement. The numbers say he improved. The minutes say he improved. Performing better on a better team says he improved. If you have proof to the contrary, have at it. Otherwise, it's just a...how did you say it..."lame June level Scoop semantics battle" that you clearly have no ability to wage.
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Here's the relevant part: Again, provide the EVIDENCE as to Oso's lack of improvement. The numbers say he improved. The minutes say he improved. Performing better on a better team says he improved. If you have proof to the contrary, have at it. Otherwise, it's just a...how did you say it..."lame June level Scoop semantics battle" that you clearly have no ability to wage.
And I look at those stats and say, how could you possibly reason he is greatly improved from such a limited sample size of data?
To the semantics point, I never contested he didn’t improve, just that he didn’t greatly improve.
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And I look at those stats and say, how could you possibly reason he is greatly improved from such a limited sample size of data?
To the semantics point, I never contested he didn’t improve, just that he didn’t greatly improve.
Let's start at the start. Quantify 'greatly improved' in an objective manner.
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Let's start at the start. Quantify 'greatly improved' in an objective manner.
Justin Lewis freshman to sophomore year
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Justin Lewis freshman to sophomore year
Oso improved way more freshman to sophomore year than Justin Lewis did. Mostly because Oso had a much lower starting point, but if we are going to objectively look at both players from where they started (freshman year) to where they finished (sophomore year), Oso's improvement was greater without question.
Now Justin Lewis is by far a better player. Justin was better as a freshman than Oso was as a sophomore no doubt. But Oso objectively improved more.
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So for those who watched Shaka's teams and the bigs at Texas, should we expect Oso to have the ball more in the high post to either create off the dribble or via the pass (maybe similar to Noah with the Bulls)? Or something different? I'm not expecting Oso to be bringing the ball up the court, leading the break, etc.
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Again, there were glimpses last year. A couple of drives. A coue of two dribbles and either a handoff in a different spot or a pass to a cutter. Judging from Coach's words, there will be sets using Oso that way.
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Oso improved way more freshman to sophomore year than Justin Lewis did. Mostly because Oso had a much lower starting point, but if we are going to objectively look at both players from where they started (freshman year) to where they finished (sophomore year), Oso's improvement was greater without question.
Now Justin Lewis is by far a better player. Justin was better as a freshman than Oso was as a sophomore no doubt. But Oso objectively improved more.
Way more is a big reach. Oso improved for sure, but skills-wise I'm not sure there was a ton of improvement. He is a rim running big. Other than his outbursts January 1st and 4th, he was relatively quiet and got eaten up on the boards all year.
Lewis improved his 3pt shot and ft% considerably in addition to his face up game, post game and defense. Just the fact that he's being discussed as a potential 1st round pick shows he improved more to me. Very few expected him to be gone after his 2nd year.
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Oso improved way more freshman to sophomore year than Justin Lewis did. Mostly because Oso had a much lower starting point, but if we are going to objectively look at both players from where they started (freshman year) to where they finished (sophomore year), Oso's improvement was greater without question.
Now Justin Lewis is by far a better player. Justin was better as a freshman than Oso was as a sophomore no doubt. But Oso objectively improved more.
But they were both freshmen last year.
/ducks
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Way more is a big reach. Oso improved for sure, but skills-wise I'm not sure there was a ton of improvement. He is a rim running big. Other than his outbursts January 1st and 4th, he was relatively quiet and got eaten up on the boards all year.
Lewis improved his 3pt shot and ft% considerably in addition to his face up game, post game and defense. Just the fact that he's being discussed as a potential 1st round pick shows he improved more to me. Very few expected him to be gone after his 2nd year.
So now let's debate the difference between "more" and "way more." ::)
I am simply using panda's definition for "greatly improved." Oso improved as much or more than Justin did. It's just that his starting point was much lower.
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Again, there were glimpses last year. A couple of drives. A coue of two dribbles and either a handoff in a different spot or a pass to a cutter. Judging from Coach's words, there will be sets using Oso that way.
Oso hitting a few10 footers would do wonders for his play making abilities. Shaka has to be giving him the green light in this regard I would think as well.
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I think generally the greatest improvement is between freshmen and sophomore years.
Players get stronger and know what they need to work on during the offseason. They should get better every season, but the improvement rate may be less than in the past.
The one player who consistently improved was Markus Howard.
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So, no discussion about Kolek's appendectomy or Wrightsil's knee procedure?
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So, no discussion about Kolek's appendectomy or Wrightsil's knee procedure?
What’s to discuss? Both seemed routine, it’s only June, and both will be 100% well before the season starts.
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So, no discussion about Kolek's appendectomy or Wrightsil's knee procedure?
Will Kolek's missing appendix improve or greatly improve his 3 point shot?
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Will Kolek's missing appendix improve or greatly improve his 3 point shot?
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥APPENDIX WATCH🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
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Will Kolek's missing appendix improve or greatly improve his 3 point shot?
Losing those 2 ounces can really help him get some more lift on his jumpshot
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What’s to discuss? Both seemed routine, it’s only June, and both will be 100% well before the season starts.
Both will give dodds reason to excuse suboptimal performances come February.
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Appendix no matta, aina?
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Both will give dodds reason to excuse suboptimal performances come February.
Dodds can't even update our one commitment from 2 months ago. Maybe lets not hold his evaluations of the team in any higher regard than the average scoop poster.
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Wrightsil's knee looks good in the video highlights from the Juneteenth parade videos.
Can't wait for the replies to this...
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Great.
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Looks like according to Twitter, Caleb Kozinski from IMG Academy committed to Marquette.
Not sure if that's a scholarship situation or walk on, but he graduated HS this year it seems. I'm guessing walkon because I know nothing about him and there isn't much about him that you can find.
6'1" guard.
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Looks like according to Twitter, Caleb Kozinski from IMG Academy committed to Marquette.
Not sure if that's a scholarship situation or walk on, but he graduated HS this year it seems.
Preferred walk on. From Dousman. Played at Kettle Moraine Lutheran and Watertown Luther Prep prior.
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Preferred walk on. From Dousman. Played at Kettle Moraine Lutheran and Watertown Luther Prep prior.
Thanks.
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Preferred walk on. From Dousman. Played at Kettle Moraine Lutheran and Watertown Luther Prep prior.
Another Shaka fail
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Another Shaka fail
Reel them in Shaka
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A bullish report on Zach Wrightsil
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattstdream/status/1538953419712602114
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When is this thread getting back on topic, like why isn't Outlook allowing larger attachments?
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CfHy-5KFawH/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
We won't lose because we're not athletic enough
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CfHy-5KFawH/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
We won't lose because we're not athletic enough
Some posters poke fun at Shaka going after certain recruits rather than other more highly recruits. This video shows exactly the type of guy he wants on the roster. We haven’t had this much athleticism on our roster in a long, long time.
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Some posters poke fun at Shaka going after certain recruits rather than other more highly recruits. This video shows exactly the type of guy he wants on the roster. We haven’t had this much athleticism on our roster in a long, long time.
Shaka only gets the easy recruits
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Keeyan Itejere looks like a prescense. He's only going to continue to develop. His potential is woah.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1542192512215007233?t=LFKnC1Dm9lom4R97opU1FA&s=19
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Keeyan Itejere looks like a prescense. He's only going to continue to develop. His potential is woah.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1542192512215007233?t=LFKnC1Dm9lom4R97opU1FA&s=19
Semi teal - Ben Gold nowhere near ready.
Man KI looks great. If he can be a Kur bouncy type presence in the lane this year, look out.
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Can this team win the title?
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Can this team win the title?
Fort myers title? Yes….yes they can.
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Fort myers title? Yes….yes they can.
I'd take it!
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Semi teal - Ben Gold nowhere near ready.
Man KI looks great. If he can be a Kur bouncy type presence in the lane this year, look out.
I went to the season ticket holder practice last season and KI only played 2 minutes. I that short run he had an absurd putback dunk that shocked everyone. Dude is a physical specimen. If he has any level of basketball skills, he should get some minutes.
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I went to the season ticket holder practice last season and KI only played 2 minutes. I that short run he had an absurd putback dunk that shocked everyone. Dude is a physical specimen. If he has any level of basketball skills, he should get some minutes.
That dunk was awesome ! Looks like he’s moving a bit more fluidly this year.
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I'm expecting roughly nothing from Keeyan. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
Sean Jones on the other hand...
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Thanks for posting. Keegan looks like he has some bulk.
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I'm expecting roughly nothing from Keeyan. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
Sean Jones on the other hand...
Keeyan…practice guy. Warm-up line first team. Like me at the driving range compared to the course.
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Keeyan…practice guy. Warm-up line first team. Like me at the driving range compared to the course.
Gonna need him. He will probably play significant minutes.
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He jumps, he dunks, he blocks shots. One of the problems with not having any widebodies is that there are no widebodies to wrestle with. No OMP right now due to team Canada. So KI can block and dunk on Gold and walk-ons.
I think he is going to be a useful piece. I don't know this video proves it.
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He jumps, he dunks, he blocks shots. One of the problems with not having any widebodies is that there are no widebodies to wrestle with. No OMP right now due to team Canada. So OMP can block and dunk on Gold and walk-ons.
I think he is going to be a useful piece. I don't know this video proves it.
I think you meant to say Keeyan in the last sentence of first paragraph
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I think you are right and will make the appropriate change.
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Semi teal - Ben Gold nowhere near ready.
Man KI looks great. If he can be a Kur bouncy type presence in the lane this year, look out.
Gold is not in the same league as the athletic players, nor was Steve Novak.
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He jumps, he dunks, he blocks shots. One of the problems with not having any widebodies is that there are no widebodies to wrestle with. No OMP right now due to team Canada. So KI can block and dunk on Gold and walk-ons.
I think he is going to be a useful piece. I don't know this video proves it.
I think he will be more impactful defensively than offensively.
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Probably. In my head, he is slightly behind where Oso was a year ago. More athleticism, fewer skills.
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I think Gold's shooting might end up being better than we think. Certainly has work to do on his body but not as much work as I initially thought.
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I think Gold's shooting might end up being better than we think. Certainly has work to do on his body but not as much work as I initially thought.
From the footage I've seen of Gold he's a much better, more fluid athlete than what Steve Novak was..but of course Novak was an all-world shooter. I feel Gold will surprise some with being more athletic/bouncier than what many might think.
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Fort myers title? Yes….yes they can.
Hang a banner
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Marquette Picked 9th in 2022-23 Big East
By Jon Rothstein today
9. Marquette
Projected Starting 5:
G Tyler Kolek
G Kam Jones
F Zach Wrightstil
F Olivier Maxence-Prosper
F Oso Ighodaro
Projected Bench: Stevie Mitchell, David Joplin, Emarion Ellis, Keeyan Itejere, Ben Gold, Sean Jones, Chase Ross
Key Losses: Justin Lewis, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliott, Kur Kuath
Key Newcomers: Ben Gold, Sean Jones, Chase Ross, Zach Wrightstil (NAIA transfer)
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https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/big-east-offseason-breakdown-3/
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Marquette Picked 9th in 2022-23 Big East
By Jon Rothstein today
9. Marquette
Projected Starting 5:
G Tyler Kolek
G Kam Jones
F Zach Wrightstil
F Olivier Maxence-Prosper
F Oso Ighodaro
Projected Bench: Stevie Mitchell, David Joplin, Emarion Ellis, Keeyan Itejere, Ben Gold, Sean Jones, Chase Ross
Key Losses: Justin Lewis, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliott, Kur Kuath
Key Newcomers: Ben Gold, Sean Jones, Chase Ross, Zach Wrightstil (NAIA transfer)
Sweet! So another top 5 finish and an NCAA tourney birth? I’ll take it.
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Sweet! So another top 5 finish and an NCAA tourney birth? I’ll take it.
And another opening round ass-kicking.
Would you take it?
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From the footage I've seen of Gold he's a much better, more fluid athlete than what Steve Novak was..but of course Novak was an all-world shooter. I feel Gold will surprise some with being more athletic/bouncier than what many might think.
I have seen Gold play against some of the TBT players. He can score, can go the hoop better then Novak for sure. A little quicker as well. But he is a 3, much like Steve he will never be a center much less a 4 man. Elgin Cook lit him up and drove right through is body, Gold was bounced like 5 feet back. But in saying that, MU can use him at the 5, and not sure to many centers will be able to guard him. It will be interesting how Shaka uses him. But he is not a center. Oso and him on the court at the same time will be a rebounding nightmare, zero physicality. Wrightsil is key.
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From the New Haven Register. Meant to publish a few days ago.
See full article for the entire list.
https://www.ctinsider.com/uconn/article/Midsummer-look-at-Big-East-Top-teams-players-17304087.php
Midsummer look at Big East: Top teams, players, where does UConn men’s basketball fit?
David Borges
Updated: July 15, 2022 9:34 a.m.
8. MARQUETTE: Justin Lewis’s 11th-hour decision to enter the NBA Draft did two things: paved a clearer path for Adama Sanogo to win Big East Player of the Year, and really hurt the Golden Eagles’ chances of a second straight trip to the Big Dance. Apparently, the latter is more concerning to Marquette fans. One thing is certain: This is Shaka’s team now. Only one remnant of the Wojo years (Oso Ighudaro) remains.
Milwaukee’s best?: Big East All-Freshman pick Kam Jones is the top returning scorer at 7.4 points per game.
Key: Point guard Tyler Kolek, a Rhode Islander, dazzled with the ball and was the Big East assists leader. But he’s got to cut down on the turnovers and really needs to shoot better (28.1 percent from 3).
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It is possible. If the offseason development isn't as strong as hoped. Nothing to be done about it.
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It is possible. If the offseason development isn't as strong as hoped. Nothing to be done about it.
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I disagree totally with that comment. Jones and Joplin are physically in great shape. The 7 returnees know each other and there game, a year ago they barely knew each other. Yes they are really young this year, but there will be improvement by every player
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I disagree with the assessment of the team. I am more optimistic. But I accept the possibility that I am wrong.
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BC
It sounds like you might be a bit more optimistic than you were a few months ago? Is that a fair assessment? If so, what has changed your thinking?
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BC
It sounds like you might be a bit more optimistic than you were a few months ago? Is that a fair assessment? If so, what has changed your thinking?
I have seen a few of the players play, liked what I saw but really liked the Kolek video, looked like his shot has improved. MU has a deep team of talented players, can they play together, do not know that. OMax is a wild card, really could not get his own shot last year and people think he will be drafted next year, do not see it. Oso not sure either, to soft. So if those 2 players show improvement they might be pretty good, but a big if.
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BC
I think it will come down to the chemistry of the team. I agree that there is a lot of talent, and likely improved talent returning next season. I am far more high on Oso on Omax and looking forward to the season.
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I continue to be bullish on the prospects for the coming season. I see an impactful growth from players who got meaningful minutes last year , a major step up from those who got less minutes , a quality grad transfer and no need to rely on freshman. One of the freshman may emerge in the rotation early on and a second might get some minutes later in the season.
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Preseason ranking is reasonable. However, I also see it reasonable that we pass up one or more of Butler, Providence, Seton Hall and St. John's. I do not see us being upstaged by Georgetown and DePaul, However, to my frustration, we seem to lose to Depaul more than any other Big East team does.
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I think it will come down to the chemistry of the team. I agree that there is a lot of talent, and likely improved talent returning next season. I am far more high on Oso on Omax and looking forward to the season.
I generally agree with this optimistic take, Goose. Our heroes need to be able to hit some outside shots and also to defend far better than they did down the stretch last season. Wouldn't hurt if they actually grabbed a couple of rebounds, too! But I think we've got a good chance to be a pleasant surprise again.
Now, the next step in the development of Shaka's program will be that we don't have to be a pleasant surprise. We still need talent upgrades to be ranked in the top-3 of these things -- as Marquette should be.
We Are Marquette!
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I think this team misses out on the NCAA but makes a NIT run. Finish somewhere 7-8 in BE standings.
Joplin will make a huge jump and take up a decent chunk of JLewis role, minutes and production. I am not high on Wrightstil. No shooting range and that will make spacing difficult.
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I think this team misses out on the NCAA but makes a NIT run. Finish somewhere 7-8 in BE standings.
Joplin will make a huge jump and take up a decent chunk of JLewis role, minutes and production. I am not high on Wrightstil. No shooting range and that will make spacing difficult.
The current bracketology has 7 Big East teams getting bids.
Finished 6th we are in.
7th, iffy
8th NIT
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Thoughts on the entire story that MU Fan in Connecticut posted (not just the MU part)? Do you think Borges is pretty much on target?
https://www.ctinsider.com/uconn/article/Midsummer-look-at-Big-East-Top-teams-players-17304087.php
Interesting, but maybe a bit too generous with St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence. And since this is a Marquette forum, of course we cannot accept his placing MU i8th.
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Anything less than a national title is a massive institutional failure
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Year One - “It’s a Process”
Year Two - “ Building a Culture”, whatever that is.
Just have to wait for Year Three terminologies provided by Scoopers. Can’t wait…
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Year One - “It’s a Process”
Year Two - “ Building a Culture”, whatever that is.
Just have to wait for Year Three terminologies provided by Scoopers. Can’t wait…
Plenty of Scoopers were talking about "building a culture" in Year One, as was Shaka (who I believe still is).
I'm pretty sure even I used some form of that phrase. It's a legitimate concept, but it and winning -- at least to a point -- need not be mutually exclusive.
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I disagree with the assessment of the team. I am more optimistic. But I accept the possibility that I am wrong.
when arent you more optmistic than the board
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when arent you more optmistic than the board
Last year Tower had pretty low expectations to begin the year.
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when arent you more optmistic than the board
Thanks.
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when arent you more optmistic than the board
Tower was repeatedly called a debbie downer during the Wojo years
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when arent you more optmistic than the board
taurer user too bee captine coal
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CONE
Cult of no expectations.
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The current bracketology has 7 Big East teams getting bids.
Finished 6th we are in.
7th, iffy
8th NIT
That’s not really how it works.
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CONE is a cover for COLE
CONE
Cult of no expectations.
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I have seen Gold play against some of the TBT players. He can score, can go the hoop better then Novak for sure. A little quicker as well. But he is a 3, much like Steve he will never be a center much less a 4 man. Elgin Cook lit him up and drove right through is body, Gold was bounced like 5 feet back. But in saying that, MU can use him at the 5, and not sure to many centers will be able to guard him. It will be interesting how Shaka uses him. But he is not a center. Oso and him on the court at the same time will be a rebounding nightmare, zero physicality. Wrightsil is key.
Yeah, but Elgin Cook is a big ass man.
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Yeah, but Elgin Cook is a big ass man.
No doubt, Gold was playing against men and he looked like a child for sure.
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No doubt, Gold was playing against men and he looked like a child for sure.
I mean Cook looks overpowering on TBT playing against grown men
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CONE is a cover for COLE
CONE is CONE. I said going in to last season that I had no expectations and would just enjoy the season free of worry. And I did.
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I mean Cook looks overpowering on TBT playing against grown men
Elgin Cook has spent the last 4 years playing in 3 of the top 4 European leagues. He's probably in the top 5% of players in the TBT, I wouldn't read into any performance against him at all. Much less from an 18 year old kid.
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Elgin Cook has spent the last 4 years playing in 3 of the top 4 European leagues. He's probably in the top 5% of players in the TBT, I wouldn't read into any performance against him at all. Much less from an 18 year old kid.
It is what I meant.
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It is what I meant.
Yea I was agreeing with you, adding a bit more flavor 8-)
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People keep comparing him to Novak, who as a freshmen was pretty skinny. I have not watched Gold play but would it be more accurate to compare him to Dawson Garcia. Can he be as good as Garcia was a freshmen?
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People keep comparing him to Novak, who as a freshmen was pretty skinny. I have not watched Gold play but would it be more accurate to compare him to Dawson Garcia. Can he be as good as Garcia was a freshmen?
More like Novak, Garcia even though is skinny he could go inside and post up. Gold is more your typical wing. MU has better players now plus Shaka runs more of guard oriented offense so I do not think he will have the same first year as Garcia. Gold can put the ball on the floor which was not one of Novak’s strength.
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Thank you
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Can this team beat the University of Dane Cty Vadgers? Please beat them. Win the game. Win.
Better Dead, than Red.
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Can this team beat the University of Dane Cty Vadgers? Please beat them. Win the game. Win.
Better Dead, than Red.
This is a very important game for both teams as current bracketology prediction have both of them not making the tournament. A much-needed quality win for both teams.
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This is a very important game for both teams as current bracketology prediction have both of them not making the tournament. A much-needed quality win for both teams.
If both teams aren’t good, why would it be a quality win?
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Relax, both teams will make da Tourney, hey?
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If both teams aren’t good, why would it be a quality win?
I think one of MU and UW will make it as a bubble team. The winner has the early advantage.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1553113029969068035
Ben Gold had a 2 hit, 2 home run, 2 run, 4 rbi day at the annual softball game. Hopefully he can keep the production up all season!
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1553113029969068035
Ben Gold had a 2 hit, 2 home run, 2 run, 4 rbi day at the annual softball game. Hopefully he can keep the production up all season!
Kids were having a lot of fun. Love it.
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We are…68th in T Rank. Gold and Keeyan no matta apparently.
- 16-15, 9-11
- 8th in conference
https://www.barttorvik.com/rosters23.php?team=Marquette&year=2022
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Hope I am wrong …
But, I think TRank is about right. It’s going to be a long year. With Lewis gone, there’s not enough talent on this team. They will not do as well as last year
I’d foresee about a .500 season …will be lucky to see the NIT
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Hope I am wrong …
But, I think TRank is about right. It’s going to be a long year. With Lewis gone, there’s not enough talent on this team. They will not do as well as last year
I’d foresee about a .500 season …will be lucky to see the NIT
COLE
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Hope I am wrong …
But, I think TRank is about right. It’s going to be a long year. With Lewis gone, there’s not enough talent on this team. They will not do as well as last year
I’d foresee about a .500 season …will be lucky to see the NIT
Getting rid of Lewis and his laziness is worth 2-3 wins in my estimation. The last thing Marquette needs is NBA level players to undermine the culture
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Hope I am wrong …
But, I think TRank is about right. It’s going to be a long year. With Lewis gone, there’s not enough talent on this team. They will not do as well as last year
I’d foresee about a .500 season …will be lucky to see the NIT
You could be right. This could be similar to Coach Smart's second season in Texas. I don't think any of the newcomers are huge game changers. So, it comes down to development of the returnees. It will still be a young team.
1. Who is going to take the shot in the last 5 seconds down one or tied?
2. Who is going to put the team on their back when the offense stagnates?
3. When the opponent has the ball with 20 seconds left, who makes the big stop and, more importantly, who secures the rebound?
When those answers emerge, we will have a much better idea about how this team does.
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You could be right. This could be similar to Coach Smart's second season in Texas. I don't think any of the newcomers are huge game changers. So, it comes down to development of the returnees. It will still be a young team.
1. Who is going to take the shot in the last 5 seconds down one or tied?
2. Who is going to put the team on their back when the offense stagnates?
3. When the opponent has the ball with 20 seconds left, who makes the big stop and, more importantly, who secures the rebound?
When those answers emerge, we will have a much better idea about how this team does.
This team is a beautiful mystery heading into the season and I’m very excited for it
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You could be right. This could be similar to Coach Smart's second season in Texas. I don't think any of the newcomers are huge game changers. So, it comes down to development of the returnees. It will still be a young team.
1. Who is going to take the shot in the last 5 seconds down one or tied?
2. Who is going to put the team on their back when the offense stagnates?
3. When the opponent has the ball with 20 seconds left, who makes the big stop and, more importantly, who secures the rebound?
When those answers emerge, we will have a much better idea about how this team does.
We have been singing this song for the last ten years and next year's in coming class is not turning heads either. With NIL my gut is telling me it will only get worse. However, I will still cheer on the team. Go Warriors! Go Golden Eagles!
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Getting rid of Lewis and his laziness is worth 2-3 wins in my estimation. The last thing Marquette needs is NBA level players to undermine the culture
So are you saying we can compete for and perhaps win a NC without NBA level players?
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So are you saying we can compete for and perhaps win a NC without NBA level players?
As long as they fit the culture
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You could be right. This could be similar to Coach Smart's second season in Texas. I don't think any of the newcomers are huge game changers. So, it comes down to development of the returnees. It will still be a young team.
1. Who is going to take the shot in the last 5 seconds down one or tied?
2. Who is going to put the team on their back when the offense stagnates?
3. When the opponent has the ball with 20 seconds left, who makes the big stop and, more importantly, who secures the rebound?
When those answers emerge, we will have a much better idea about how this team does.
Well, to me, the answer to 1 & 2 is obviously Kam. The question is whether he's good enough yet to do it reliably.
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I'm here for the Tyler Kolek "F You" tour this year.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1553113029969068035
Ben Gold had a 2 hit, 2 home run, 2 run, 4 rbi day at the annual softball game. Hopefully he can keep the production up all season!
Was there not a good baseball player that played bsaketball for us back in the 90s?
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I'm here for the Tyler Kolek "F You" tour this year.
Samsies. I've heard nothing but glowing things about Kolek's offseason.
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Was there not a good baseball player that played bsaketball for us back in the 90s?
A couple of 'em. Chris Crawford and Richard Shaw both were drafted by MLB teams.
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We have been singing this song for the last ten years and next year's in coming class is not turning heads either. With NIL my gut is telling me it will only get worse. However, I will still cheer on the team. Go Warriors! Go Golden Eagles!
I posted this on another site:
Let's talk about some programs that succeeded with "late bloomers" in recent years, using the 247 Composite:
- Kansas 2022: #132 Ochai Agbaji (2018), #130 Christian Braun (2019), #94 Dajuan Harris (2019)
- Baylor 2021: NR MaCio Teague (2016), NR Adam Flagler (2018), NR Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua (2018), #97 Jared Butler (2018), #93 Matthew Mayer (2018)
- Virginia 2019: #397 Kihei Clark (2018), #91 De'Andre Hunter (2016)
- Villanova 2018: #210 Eric Paschall (2014), #124 Donte DiVincenzo (2015), #81 Mikal Bridges (2014), #75 Phil Booth (2014)
Shaka is going for the exact kind of guys that just won Kansas a national title. The 75-150 type guys in the Agbaji, Braun, Harris mold that grew from borderline 3/4 stars into national champs and NBA draft picks. On Parish and Norlander's podcast recently, Matt talked about Self telling him that he wanted those guys because his 4-star, 75th ranked player as a junior was going to be better than someone else's 5-star All-American as a freshman. And winning with mid-ranked upperclassmen has been consistent since Duke's 2015 title.
I trust this staff because I'm looking at the trajectory of who they've already prioritized. When Shaka made his first offers to Bond and Trimble, they were ranked 181st and 80th according to the 247 composite, respectively. As those guys enroll, they are at 63 and 37. Chase Ross is up from 256 when he committed to 173. Sean Jones is up from 182 to 157. Norman looks ready to make a leap similar to Bond or Trimble. They are identifying guys who are on the rise before they rise. Does it require some patience? Sure. But recent history also indicates it's the best path to winning at the highest level, and there's no real debate there.[/i]
I'd add that you do need typically need a little high level talent to win at the highest level. McCormack at Kansas, Mitchell at Baylor, Guy at Virginia, and Brunson at Villanova were all top-60 guys. And there were a few more sprinkled in. But all of those programs were built over years by their coaches and the foundation was guys that came in looking a lot like Joplin, Sean Jones, and Zaide Lowery who were then reinforced by guys that looked more like Donnie Freeman (#25 in 2024) and James Brown (#31 in 2024). Also worth nothing we haven't even started year 2 yet so maybe we need to be a little patient.
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Well, to me, the answer to 1 & 2 is obviously Kam. The question is whether he's good enough yet to do it reliably.
This was also my answer.
Kam cannot be any worse than Markus was in hitting game winners.
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This was also my answer.
Kam cannot be any worse than Markus was in hitting game winners.
Ah, I see we've found a new reason to be critical of Markus.
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Well, to me, the answer to 1 & 2 is obviously Kam. The question is whether he's good enough yet to do it reliably.
"Obviously?" Kam was OK last year, but I don't see there is anyway that this falls into the "obvious" category.
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I posted this on another site:
Let's talk about some programs that succeeded with "late bloomers" in recent years, using the 247 Composite:
- Kansas 2022: #132 Ochai Agbaji (2018), #130 Christian Braun (2019), #94 Dajuan Harris (2019)
- Baylor 2021: NR MaCio Teague (2016), NR Adam Flagler (2018), NR Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua (2018), #97 Jared Butler (2018), #93 Matthew Mayer (2018)
- Virginia 2019: #397 Kihei Clark (2018), #91 De'Andre Hunter (2016)
- Villanova 2018: #210 Eric Paschall (2014), #124 Donte DiVincenzo (2015), #81 Mikal Bridges (2014), #75 Phil Booth (2014)
Shaka is going for the exact kind of guys that just won Kansas a national title. The 75-150 type guys in the Agbaji, Braun, Harris mold that grew from borderline 3/4 stars into national champs and NBA draft picks. On Parish and Norlander's podcast recently, Matt talked about Self telling him that he wanted those guys because his 4-star, 75th ranked player as a junior was going to be better than someone else's 5-star All-American as a freshman. And winning with mid-ranked upperclassmen has been consistent since Duke's 2015 title.
I trust this staff because I'm looking at the trajectory of who they've already prioritized. When Shaka made his first offers to Bond and Trimble, they were ranked 181st and 80th according to the 247 composite, respectively. As those guys enroll, they are at 63 and 37. Chase Ross is up from 256 when he committed to 173. Sean Jones is up from 182 to 157. Norman looks ready to make a leap similar to Bond or Trimble. They are identifying guys who are on the rise before they rise. Does it require some patience? Sure. But recent history also indicates it's the best path to winning at the highest level, and there's no real debate there.[/i]
I'd add that you do need typically need a little high level talent to win at the highest level. McCormack at Kansas, Mitchell at Baylor, Guy at Virginia, and Brunson at Villanova were all top-60 guys. And there were a few more sprinkled in. But all of those programs were built over years by their coaches and the foundation was guys that came in looking a lot like Joplin, Sean Jones, and Zaide Lowery who were then reinforced by guys that looked more like Donnie Freeman (#25 in 2024) and James Brown (#31 in 2024). Also worth nothing we haven't even started year 2 yet so maybe we need to be a little patient.
I have been patient for ten years now and yes those teams won with "late bloomers" but now with the new transfer rules and NIL do you think a player that has a standout or even a decent season will not be tempted to look elsewhere? I am not sure how this new landscape is going to play out.
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I have been patient for ten years now and yes those teams won with "late bloomers" but now with the new transfer rules and NIL do you think a player that has a standout or even a decent season will not be tempted to look elsewhere? I am not sure how this new landscape is going to play out.
As bad as the last decade has been, I can't hold the last year of Buzz and the 7 years of Wojo against Shaka. This staff is clearly prioritizing relationships, which can be seen in the comments from pretty much anyone in, around, or being recruited by the program. We won't know until we see it in action as far as how it will play out, but not having any transfers out this year (I don't count Greg, they made it clear he wasn't coming back on Senior Day) feels like a good sign and Shaka's own history of retaining players is better than any of our recent coaches. And as much as it's a new landscape, the thing we have always known about college basketball is that no matter how much it changes, the blue bloods remain the blue bloods, then there's a fight for who's in the 6-40 mix when it comes to programs. Between the BTD NIL and us prioritizing basketball above all else, I'm sure we will have the opportunity to succeed provided we have the right leadership. Is this the right leadership? We'll see. I have faith in the coaching staff. I have questions about other parts of leadership. But the next 1-3 years will tell us a lot.
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I'm here for the Tyler Kolek "F You" tour this year.
"F You Tour"?
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I have been patient for ten years now and yes those teams won with "late bloomers" but now with the new transfer rules and NIL do you think a player that has a standout or even a decent season will not be tempted to look elsewhere? I am not sure how this new landscape is going to play out.
Maybe more accurately, Shaka is here BECAUSE we had to be patient for the better part of 10 years. Results thus far are overachieving national expectations every time out (though admittedly, one is a small sample size).
He knows the transfer rules and will have the pulse on NIL, but we have to let him play this new landscape out because that's what he was hired to do.
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I continue to be bullish on the prospects for this years Team.
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As bad as the last decade has been, I can't hold the last year of Buzz and the 7 years of Wojo against Shaka. This staff is clearly prioritizing relationships, which can be seen in the comments from pretty much anyone in, around, or being recruited by the program. We won't know until we see it in action as far as how it will play out, but not having any transfers out this year (I don't count Greg, they made it clear he wasn't coming back on Senior Day) feels like a good sign and Shaka's own history of retaining players is better than any of our recent coaches. And as much as it's a new landscape, the thing we have always known about college basketball is that no matter how much it changes, the blue bloods remain the blue bloods, then there's a fight for who's in the 6-40 mix when it comes to programs. Between the BTD NIL and us prioritizing basketball above all else, I'm sure we will have the opportunity to succeed provided we have the right leadership. Is this the right leadership? We'll see. I have faith in the coaching staff. I have questions about other parts of leadership. But the next 1-3 years will tell us a lot.
Care to explain the bolded?
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Ah, I see we've found a new reason to be critical of Markus.
I mean, I am as big of a Markus fan as there is, but I can't think of a time where he hit a game winner. Which isn't a huge knock, most players make it through college without hitting a game winner. He certainly had plenty of daggers that finished opponents off, but the game winner eluded him despite many attempts.
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Maybe more accurately, Shaka is here BECAUSE we had to be patient for the better part of 10 years. Results thus far are overachieving national expectations every time out (though admittedly, one is a small sample size).
He knows the transfer rules and will have the pulse on NIL, but we have to let him play this new landscape out because that's what he was hired to do.
[/color]
...but will he have the means ($$$$$$) to play this new landscape.
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"F You Tour"?
Yep. Heard all the criticism last year and is having a terrific summer. I hope it translates come November.
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"F You Tour"?
Not sure if you are making a funny, but the student section and twitter (and Scoop at times) was brutal to Kolek all of last season
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Not sure if you are making a funny, but the student section and twitter (and Scoop at times) was brutal to Kolek all of last season
He reminded me of Travis Diener
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Not sure if you are making a funny, but the student section and twitter (and Scoop at times) was brutal to Kolek all of last season
Not making a funny. I thought the MU message boards were very balanced if not complimentary. It didn't help that Skaka labeled him the "best shooter" on the team last summer. If fact, with Carton not returning, he did fine last season learning a new position and stepping up a level. Up and down. I don't remember Twitter being out of control. I think Jones helps him immensely this season.
As for the students, there may have been more going on.
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I mean, I am as big of a Markus fan as there is, but I can't think of a time where he hit a game winner. Which isn't a huge knock, most players make it through college without hitting a game winner. He certainly had plenty of daggers that finished opponents off, but the game winner eluded him despite many attempts.
Yeah, I agree. How many opportunities do people actually have to hit a "game winner"? What defines a game winner? Last second shot, last 30 seconds?
Looking back at the old scores and play by plays, he really had very few opportunities. He did have quite a few games where he dropped 30+ and won by a basket or 2. Like this, where he dropped 38,
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083262 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083262)
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Yeah, I agree. How many opportunities do people actually have to hit a "game winner"? What defines a game winner? Last second shot, last 30 seconds?
Looking back at the old scores and play by plays, he really had very few opportunities. He did have quite a few games where he dropped 30+ and won by a basket or 2. Like this, where he dropped 38,
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083262 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083262)
He just doesn’t have the clutch gene
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Not making a funny. I thought the MU message boards were very balanced if not complimentary. It didn't help that Skaka labeled him the "best shooter" on the team last summer. If fact, with Carton not returning, he did fine last season learning a new position and stepping up a level. Up and down. I don't remember Twitter being out of control. I think Jones helps him immensely this season.
As for the students, there may have been more going on.
I actually wondered if something off the court was fueling the vitriol from the student section. Personally I can't think of another player who got that much targeted hate from the students.
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The students are future scoopers. So there is no surprise there would be vitriol directed toward players.
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I actually wondered if something off the court was fueling the vitriol from the student section. Personally I can't think of another player who got that much targeted hate from the students.
Not in the student section for Kolek, but I know Dom James and Vander weren’t exactly beloved in the student section.
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The students are future scoopers. So there is no surprise there would be vitriol directed toward players.
They probably read Scoop and decided that Scoopers were on to something. It would be more accurate, based upon their posts, that some Scoopers are more likely to on something rather than on to something.
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...but will he have the means ($$$$$$) to play this new landscape.
I see no reason why not. We have the BTD NIL program and multi-millionaire donors who have expressed a desire to help this program win a national championship. It is also the coach's job to create the culture and excitement around the program to bring in those donors and that money to both the program and the organizations surrounding it that can help fund those goals.
If we were talking about football, I would say the answer is probably no. But we aren't. And as much as someone like Nijel Pack or Oscar Tshiebwe is getting this year, if Marquette had a player who was the difference between a tourney team and a title contender, there are people with the means to bridge that gap at the same level Pack and Tshiebwe are being paid. The price to make Wojo go away was more than double what those two will get this year and that was raised overnight.
I believe we have to walk before we run. No one is going to start laying out that money without some proof of concept. But if we make a little run this year, then a deep run next year, and NIL could bring back a couple seniors for COVID seasons that are the difference between a league contender and legitimate national title contender, I think you'll see those donors come forward and put their wallets on the table.
After all, it's not 80 scholarships, it's 13. And even if you're paying serious coin to the best players, it will still be only 3-4 that are really compensated at the highest level. Prove the concept and I have little doubt the money will be there, no matter how much Scoopers worry about being a small school that can't compete with the big boys.
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I actually wondered if something off the court was fueling the vitriol from the student section. Personally I can't think of another player who got that much targeted hate from the students.
White guilt.
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White guilt.
I don't know him. Was he a Dukiet recruit?
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I don't know him. Was he a Dukiet recruit?
Whitey really could play the ivories.
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I actually wondered if something off the court was fueling the vitriol from the student section. Personally I can't think of another player who got that much targeted hate from the students.
I think it has more to do with the fact that there are a handful of students in open gyms at Marquette that can shoot 28% from three and 37% from the field
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I think it has more to do with the fact that there are a handful of students in open gyms at Marquette that can shoot 28% from three and 37% from the field
Against Big East defenses? I'm sure there's a handful of students who think they could do that.
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Against Big East defenses? I'm sure there's a handful of students who think they could do that.
There are, and they can.
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There are, and they can.
Over the course of a season? Not a chance.
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There are, and they can.
Sure. And Muggsy, Goose, and Jesmu84 can shoot 75 on a US Open course
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Sure. And Muggsy, Goose, and Jesmu84 can shoot 75 on a US Open course
They’d leave some shots out there, too
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There are, and they can.
Yes, there are all of these hidden gems at Marquette just playing pickup ball. Maybe MU should field two teams.
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There are, and they can.
Where are these guys!? With this wealth of talent willing to come to Marquette when they could be getting basketball scholarships elsewhere, we should be like the Badgers and carry 14 walk ons at all times!
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I average 22 putts/rd, hey?
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Over the course of a season? Not a chance.
Probably not the kids you were hanging out with in school….
Just gotta know the right people.
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Yes, there are all of these hidden gems at Marquette just playing pickup ball. Maybe MU should field two teams.
your cynicism demonstrates your ignorance.
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Man Scoop is funny. I'm not a big believer in Kolek myself, but the idea that there are guys walking around MU's campus that are better at basketball than him is hysterical. If true, those guys are both lazy and extremely dumb. Kolek is good enough to get a mid major scholarship first, and now a high major scholarship, and contribute at both places. If there are guys walking around campus that are better at basketball than him, even if you think Kolek's in over his head at MU, those guys who are better than him at the very least should've been able to get a low major full ride. If they had any sense in them, they'd pick out a low major with great academics and get a free degree there rather than paying $60K/year to be a regular student at Marquette.
Kolek isn't really at fault. The problem is we don't have anyone better than him behind him. Or at least didn't last year. That's why I've consistently thought that if we're going to be a Tournament team, Sean Jones is going to need to be our best guard. Because from what I saw last year, our guards aren't even close to good enough to have us competing at the top half of the Big East.
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Man Scoop is funny. I'm not a big believer in Kolek myself, but the idea that there are guys walking around MU's campus that are better at basketball than him is hysterical. If true, those guys are both lazy and extremely dumb. Kolek is good enough to get a mid major scholarship first, and now a high major scholarship, and contribute at both places. If there are guys walking around campus that are better at basketball than him, even if you think Kolek's in over his head at MU, those guys who are better than him at the very least should've been able to get a low major full ride. If they had any sense in them, they'd pick out a low major with great academics and get a free degree there rather than paying $60K/year to be a regular student at Marquette.
Kolek isn't really at fault. The problem is we don't have anyone better than him behind him. Or at least didn't last year. That's why I've consistently thought that if we're going to be a Tournament team, Sean Jones is going to need to be our best guard. Because from what I saw last year, our guards aren't even close to good enough to have us competing at the top half of the Big East.
Sounds like someone never got on the main court at the rec center.
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your cynicism demonstrates your ignorance.
And your seeming inability to know how talented one has to be to start at a high major confounds me.
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So a guy plays out of position, leads the Big East in Assist Rate, and we're down on him? I guess that's one way of looking at it.
Personally, I'm here for the aforementioned Tyler Kolek "F You" tour that I fully believe is coming.
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So a guy plays out of position, leads the Big East in Assist Rate, and we're down on him? I guess that's one way of looking at it.
Personally, I'm here for the aforementioned Tyler Kolek "F You" tour that I fully believe is coming.
The problem would be his best attribute, by a humongous margin, is what the "out of position" position is asked to do for your team. So if you put him "in position," he's now doing what he absolutely stunk at last year and is no longer doing what he did well last year.
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The problem would be his best attribute, by a humongous margin, is what the "out of position" position is asked to do for your team. So if you put him "in position," he's now doing what he absolutely stunk at last year and is no longer doing what he did well last year.
He had a dreadful shooting start (10/50, 20% in November/December non-con play). There's no arguing that. But he shot an acceptable 33.3% in conference play, which included going 18/35 (51.4%) on catch-and-shoot situations. He also shot well at GMU (35.9% from three overall, 37.2% in conference play) so the shooting ability is there, it's just a matter of being put in better situations and being more comfortable. I have confidence both in the staff figuring out how to do that and Kolek (who has earned rave reviews all summer) delivering on a scoring potential that I firmly believe is much higher than what he produced last year.
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Sounds like someone never got on the main court at the rec center.
It's posts like this that make scoop so entertaining.
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I’m going to go out on a limb and say this isn’t a Rico-style troll (at a much lower quality) and assume people are underestimating the level of D1 defenses.
Maybe the best Rec Leaguer could shoot 30% standing still and wide open, but those shots are going to be few and far between. I also think we underestimate how good of shooters college players are. They don’t miss much in warm ups.
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I have played pick up against a guy who was a bench warmer at a low major school before transferring to NAIA. He was ten years out of college and just dominated the floor. Also played with an end of the bench guy on Pitino’s Providence F4 team who was breathtakingly good.
I don’t think people have a clue how good these guys are.
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I have played pick up against a guy who was a bench warmer at a low major school before transferring to NAIA. He was ten years out of college and just dominated the floor. Also played with an end of the bench guy on Pitino’s Providence F4 team who was breathtakingly good.
I don’t think people have a clue how good these guys are.
I’ve seen the Marquette student section. Those kids would win the Big Ten
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your cynicism demonstrates your ignorance.
Ever watched the end of a blowout game when the walk ons get subbed in? Ever notice that even though the other team isn't trying and often has their walk ons and scrubs in, they still struggle to score? Those walk ons are better than the vast majority of kids at the rec center.
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I have played pick up against a guy who was a bench warmer at a low major school before transferring to NAIA. He was ten years out of college and just dominated the floor. Also played with an end of the bench guy on Pitino’s Providence F4 team who was breathtakingly good.
I don’t think people have a clue how good these guys are.
Maybe you’re just not very good…
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Maybe you’re just not very good…
Not anymore.
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He had a dreadful shooting start (10/50, 20% in November/December non-con play). There's no arguing that. But he shot an acceptable 33.3% in conference play, which included going 18/35 (51.4%) on catch-and-shoot situations. He also shot well at GMU (35.9% from three overall, 37.2% in conference play) so the shooting ability is there, it's just a matter of being put in better situations and being more comfortable. I have confidence both in the staff figuring out how to do that and Kolek (who has earned rave reviews all summer) delivering on a scoring potential that I firmly believe is much higher than what he produced last year.
Who knows what we'll get from Kolek next season - hoping for the best, obviously - but the same people behind the rave reviews all summer told us he was the best shooter on the team last summer. So, we may want to take a wait-and-see attitude with that.
As for his acceptable 33.3% ... if getting to "acceptable" requires eliminating 40% of the games and 45% of his three-point attempts, is it really acceptable? Or is it cherry picking? It's one thing to suggest a player's numbers were dinged by a few bad games, but 40% of the season isn't exactly outlier territory.
What he did in the A10 doesn't really matter. As pointed out in this here thread, the level of competition matters.
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Who knows what we'll get from Kolek next season - hoping for the best, obviously - but the same people behind the rave reviews all summer told us he was the best shooter on the team last summer. So, we may want to take a wait-and-see attitude with that.
As for his acceptable 33.3% ... if getting to "acceptable" requires eliminating 40% of the games and 45% of his three-point attempts, is it really acceptable? Or is it cherry picking? It's one thing to suggest a player's numbers were dinged by a few bad games, but 40% of the season isn't exactly outlier territory.
What he did in the A10 doesn't really matter. As pointed out in this here thread, the level of competition matters.
I don't think it's cherry picking when you are looking at 60% of the games running consecutively. If I said "in his 20 best games he did X" that would be different. It's just looking at what he did for the bulk of the season against the toughest competition.
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He shot over 50% on catch and shoot 3s in conference. He shot 14% off the dribble. The problem is known and he has had an offseason to work on it.
Coach Smart is betting on culture and player development. That is the direction for the foreseeable future.
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I’ve seen the Marquette student section. Those kids would win the Big Ten
Wrong, NC material
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He shot over 50% on catch and shoot 3s in conference. He shot 14% off the dribble. The problem is known and he has had an offseason to work on it.
To me, that felt like one of the most automatic things last season once conference play got up and rolling. If someone passed to Kolek and he was set, he was going to make it. If he pulled up off the dribble, it was gonna be ugly. The one exception I remember was the home game against 'Nova, when Shaka told him not to be an a**hole after arguing with the ref over a call. TK proceeded to make a steal, go coast-to-coast for a layup, and said to Shaka "Can I be an a**hole now?" On the next possession, he hit a three off the dribble and said "What about now?"
I know he made a couple others off the dribble, but that's the only one I remember vividly.
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I have played pick up against a guy who was a bench warmer at a low major school before transferring to NAIA. He was ten years out of college and just dominated the floor. Also played with an end of the bench guy on Pitino’s Providence F4 team who was breathtakingly good.
I don’t think people have a clue how good these guys are.
I dunked at the Helfaer once.
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I played pick up games in my 20's with some DII guys and one MAC bench warmer. I played Macker against D2 and D3 guys. Nobody is walking out of the MU student section and shooting 30% from 3 in the Big East.
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My rival high school had a guard who played a little for Michigan State. I "guarded" him for a couple of quarters. Our junior year he scored 20
on me in the second quarter. Senior year we head a box in one, yeah he still went off for 48 in the game in 3 quarters. He was not known for his defense, but he still held our best player , who went Juco, and then walked on at Indiana State, to single digits both years.
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To me, that felt like one of the most automatic things last season once conference play got up and rolling. If someone passed to Kolek and he was set, he was going to make it. If he pulled up off the dribble, it was gonna be ugly. The one exception I remember was the home game against 'Nova, when Shaka told him not to be an a**hole after arguing with the ref over a call. TK proceeded to make a steal, go coast-to-coast for a layup, and said to Shaka "Can I be an a**hole now?" On the next possession, he hit a three off the dribble and said "What about now?"
I know he made a couple others off the dribble, but that's the only one I remember vividly.
I think most of the time Kolek shot off the dribble was due to him having no one to pass to. He often drove with the idea of dropping the ball off to a center or kicking it out to a three-point shooter. He ended up shooting as a last resort. Very frustrating when he missed layups.
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Ever watched the end of a blowout game when the walk ons get subbed in? Ever notice that even though the other team isn't trying and often has their walk ons and scrubs in, they still struggle to score? Those walk ons are better than the vast majority of kids at the rec center.
I lived in freshmen dorms with a guy that was a walk on at my alma mater. He used to RUN Rec Center games. Dunk on everyone's head, sky for alley oops, catch block shots out of mid air, all at about 6'3. He played about 4 minutes total his first 2 seasons..on a mid major level team that would comfortably finish dead last in the Big East
.My rival high school had a guard who played a little for Michigan State. I "guarded" him for a couple of quarters. Our junior year he scored 20 on me in the second quarter. Senior year we head a box in one, yeah he still went off for 48 in the game in 3 quarters. He was not known for his defense, but he still held our best player , who went Juco, and then walked on at Indiana State, to single digits both years.
My senior year roommate was in HS conference with Rajon Rondo. Said Roommate was all conference in basketball and football. He talked about "blocking" Rondo's jumper when sort of bobbled on a catch and shoot. He woofed at him a bit and Rondo started calling for switches onto him and put up 15 before the end of the first quarter.
His younger brother got D2 looks but no D1 sniffs and ended up playing football as a preferred walkon at an SEC school. One of the best shooters Ive ever seen on the court. Any semi-open jumper in a pickup game was buried...but thats still not good enough to play D-1.
So yea, people thinking MU students could shoot 30% in conference are the same ones who think they could score on an NBA player given enough possessions.
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I dunked at the Helfaer once.
Didn't I posterize you once?
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I think it has more to do with the fact that there are a handful of students in open gyms at Marquette that can shoot 28% from three and 37% from the field
People that say or think things like this have zero understanding of how good all of these player are, and how much the level of competition and pace of the defense impacts both performance overall and shooting ability.
I've played pick up games with D1 players that were "bad shooters" that in a rec center/pickup game against normal people looked like Steph Curry.
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I think it’s funny when people think D1 level players are playing at more than 50% of their max ability when playing against us ordinary folks. One of my best friends played at OSU and we played together quite a bit in our late 20s. I understood that anytime I tried too hard and did something good against him I was going to pay for it…and I did. I’ve played against NBA guys both before and after their careers…they were playing at about 25% speed (clearly kind of just going through the motions) and were unstoppable. Names you would know. They are other-worldly.
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Didn't I posterize you once?
The only posterizing you did was with your Farrah Fawcett placard in your dorm room.
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I've been on the sidelines for 2 NFL games, and the game is stupid fast and the players are giants. Just shockingly different from major college football. But I will say, Tim Tebow looked awful in warm up. He was bouncing passes in warm ups. I don't know how he ever got in the NFL or even in an NFL camp.
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Man, I was never in the student section but I don't think there was any abuse in the 68-72 era. The guys were adored. I guess it was a simpler time.
As for Kolek, I thought he did a great job being asked to do what he hadn't done before. Man, he had a ton of dimes. With different personnel, and different responsibilities and roles, I think Kolek is set to have a nice year. If so, perhaps the FU tour will be going in the other direction.
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The only posterizing you did was with your Farrah Fawcett placard in your dorm room.
Farrah? Nah more like Ginger Lynn, more of a JB flow....
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Man, I was never in the student section but I don't think there was any abuse in the 68-72 era. The guys were adored. I guess it was a simpler time.
As for Kolek, I thought he did a great job being asked to do what he hadn't done before. Man, he had a ton of dimes. With different personnel, and different responsibilities and roles, I think Kolek is set to have a nice year. If so, perhaps the FU tour will be going in the other direction.
+1, I really like the guy's game and it's inevitable that the shots start falling. MU is a lot more fun to watch with pass-first PG running the team.
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I've been on the sidelines for 2 NFL games, and the game is stupid fast and the players are giants. Just shockingly different from major college football. But I will say, Tim Tebow looked awful in warm up. He was bouncing passes in warm ups. I don't know how he ever got in the NFL or even in an NFL camp.
I would still love to see the college champ play an NFL squad. From my comfortable couch, seems like the gap is closing, at least with the Bears
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Ever watched the end of a blowout game when the walk ons get subbed in? Ever notice that even though the other team isn't trying and often has their walk ons and scrubs in, they still struggle to score? Those walk ons are better than the vast majority of kids at the rec center.
Those walk ons are vastly better then everyone at the rec center.
In my life I reffed one dude who was heads over heels better then everyone else who touched that court. He was a d1 walk on.
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And your seeming inability to know how talented one has to be to start at a high major confounds me.
be confounded
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I would still love to see the college champ play an NFL squad. From my comfortable couch, seems like the gap is closing, at least with the Bears
They use to have the NFL Champs play the College all stars in late July, but I guess with risk of injury and high salaries they stopped playing the game.
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Every rec league and college gym in the country has older guys who can shoot the lights out... But they are older. The game is MUCH slower. And the defense is ridiculous and undisciplined. No comparison to a D1 college game.
I can't understand why any MU fan would criticize Tyler or any of our guys. They are doing the best they can, its not Kolek's fault that he was starting and not putting up better numbers. It is a great credit to him. If we had a better pg Tyler would have played less. Whats the basis for criticism? Don't we all want our team to succeed?
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They use to have the NFL Champs play the College all stars in late July, but I guess with risk of injury and high salaries they stopped playing the game.
I can't imagine in today's game that an NFL team would let their rookies out of camp for a couple of weeks to prepare for a game like that anymore.
Last one was in 1976.
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Pro Bowl needs to become extinct as well...
I can't imagine in today's game that an NFL team would let their rookies out of camp for a couple of weeks to prepare for a game like that anymore.
Last one was in 1976.
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I would still love to see the college champ play an NFL squad. From my comfortable couch, seems like the gap is closing, at least with the Bears
LOL! Even the Bears (who will be very lucky to win 3 games this year) would kick the crap out of the college champs. I'd say an 0-17 NFL team would beat Alabama 10 out of 10 by an average score of 52-7.
Think about if you had an team of the 1st & 2nd round players from the draft, i.e. the very best of the best of college, versus the worst NFL team; I don't think Vegas would even put a line on that game.
As a Bears fan, I would love to see them loose to a college team as a cold hard dose of reality.
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Well this sucks
Ben Steele
@BenSteeleMJS
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9m
Marquette summer injury news: Rising soph guard Emarion Ellis had surgery this week for a stress fracture in knee. For bone to heal is four months, then more time to rehab and get basketball-ready. Shaka Smart said redshirting has been discussed, but decision is Ellis'. #mubb (https://twitter.com/hashtag/mubb?src=hashtag_click)
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Ugh. Sounds like late January at the earliest.
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Unfortunate news for Ellis, but won't change the team outlook much.
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Unfortunate news for Ellis, but won't change the team outlook much.
Agreed. If anything it answers some early season question marks by default.
Kolek/Jones
Jones/Mitchell
Wrightsil/Ross
Prosper/Joplin
Ighodaro/Gold/Itejere
Every position has a backup that will get real minutes. I think Ross and Mitchell are going to be spitting images of each other with Stevie being slightly more advanced defensively and Ross giving slightly more offensively because of his burst and bounce. This is going to be an absolute pest of a defense. Just need to find out who's going to score the basketball.
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Unfortunate news for Ellis, but won't change the team outlook much.
Unless there are more injuries.
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Just need to find out who's going to score the basketball.
I am MUCH more worried about rebounding. I don’t think scoring will be an issue
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Seems like a Redshirt is probably the best route. Assuming Ellis is on board.
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Seems like a Redshirt is probably the best route. Assuming Ellis is on board.
It truly is. Given the healing and rehab time as well as the real risk of re-injury by coming back too soon from a stress fracture, it would seem to be the wise thing to do. Also, breaking into the rotation in late December or January would be rather difficult. But, it is his decision.
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Hate to see any young student athlete get an injury they requires surgery . Hopefully , EE can get healthy and then use the sophomore redshirt to come out strong the next season like Sacar did.
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Poop. Good luck and heal quickly and completely.
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Hate to see any young student athlete get an injury they requires surgery . Hopefully , EE can get healthy and then use the sophomore redshirt to come out strong the next season like Sacar did.
This is a tough one for him, barely played last year, now he should redshirt as he will be way behind whatever position he plays as there other players that will
be way ahead of him. Now comes the question if Shaka over signs a player. Somebody will have to go. Its tough for any kid to sit out almost 2 more years before
he see the court, sad for EE. Wish him a speedy recovery, but do not do what Cadougan did, comeback early and waste the year.
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I am MUCH more worried about rebounding. I don’t think scoring will be an issue
Is our rebounding sh1t because of size, athleticism, or because of our defensive system? I struggle to understand why we can't board better, yet it almost seems like a given to the coaching staff that we're going to struggle on the boards (last year and this year).
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Definitely think the Sacar Anim patch is best for Ellis now. Like Anim, he played sparingly his first year and the redshirt to get stronger, more polished, and better acclimated to the system would benefit him. Might be worth the staff trying to connect the two as Anim could provide the experience of a successful path EE could follow.
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Is our rebounding sh1t because of size, athleticism, or because of our defensive system? I struggle to understand why we can't board better, yet it almost seems like a given to the coaching staff that we're going to struggle on the boards (last year and this year).
I’m not really sure but, personally, I think it’s roster construction. We don’t really have any “bruisers”. We have a couple tall skinny guys who don’t bang (queue the JB joke) down low. It also seems like Shaka is continuing to recruit this way. The big from Philly that we’re supposedly in the lead for is like 190lbs
I fully trust Shaka but to me it seems like rebounding might be an issue that’s here to stay
Oh, and I know Wrightsil is supposed to be the solution but I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong
Lastly, I still think we’re a tournament team
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The first two rounds of recruiting indicate that Coach Smart likes speed and versatility. And with the exception of Sean Jones, length at guard. If a versatile 6'9, 245 lb forward who could guard 4 positions and get their own shot wanted to come to MU, it is likely Shaka would reciprocate that interest.
For now, speed.
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I’m not really sure but, personally, I think it’s roster construction. We don’t really have any “bruisers”. We have a couple tall skinny guys who don’t bang (queue the JB joke) down low. It also seems like Shaka is continuing to recruit this way. The big from Philly that we’re supposedly in the lead for is like 190lbs
I fully trust Shaka but to me it seems like rebounding might be an issue that’s here to stay
Oh, and I know Wrightsil is supposed to be the solution but I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong
Lastly, I still think we’re a tournament team
The only thing I will add to your comments is that I would like to see at least some effort by our guys when the rebound opportunity is slightly away from the basket. There were a number of times last year that we had two guys who could have at least tried to secure the rebound but remained flat footed while a competitor rushed in and leaped in the air to get the rebound.
I have no argument with Tower's post. It's the occasional "surrender without a fight" that bothers me.
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The first two rounds of recruiting indicate that Coach Smart likes speed and versatility. And with the exception of Sean Jones, length at guard. If a versatile 6'9, 245 lb forward who could guard 4 positions and get their own shot wanted to come to MU, it is likely Shaka would reciprocate that interest.
For now, speed.
You forgot culture
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Steele has a nice update today
Marquette basketball summer progress report: Shaka Smart gives thoughts and injury updates on every scholarship player (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/08/11/marquettes-shaka-smart-zach-wrightsil-emarion-ellis-injuries/10285046002/)
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I’m not really sure but, personally, I think it’s roster construction. We don’t really have any “bruisers”. We have a couple tall skinny guys who don’t bang (queue the JB joke) down low. It also seems like Shaka is continuing to recruit this way. The big from Philly that we’re supposedly in the lead for is like 190lbs
I fully trust Shaka but to me it seems like rebounding might be an issue that’s here to stay
Oh, and I know Wrightsil is supposed to be the solution but I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong
Lastly, I still think we’re a tournament team
I just think it's a style that most aren't used to seeing.
Marquette has the guards that are built like bullies and the forwards that are built to spread the floor. The idea is mismatches all over the floor.
Stevie, Wrightsil, and Ross are strong dudes that can play the 2 and 3, get in your face defensively, and put defenders in the rim with their strength offensively driving to the hoop.
Oso, Gold, OMax, and Jop stretch the floor.
Shaka Smart said Sean Jones is the fastest player he's EVER seen on a basketball court. That's some serious praise.
Kolek and Kam can shoot and Kolek was the best distributor in the league last year. This roster has a little bit of everything.
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Rebounding will probably always be a bit of a struggle, but in the past Shaka has always had 1-2 Jericho Sims, Dylan Osetkowski, Will Baker, Jarrett Allen, Mo-Alie Cox, Juvonte Reddic types that are generally 6'9"+, 235-250. He inherited that at Texas with Shaq Cleare, Cam Ridley, and Prince Ibeh, but here he really only inherited Oso, who was a toothpick, and pulled in Kur, who had the length but not the girth.
I would imagine the hope is to routinely get 2-3 of those guys on the roster, but mostly developed so that hopefully Oso, Itejere, and Amadou come in at 190-200 but after a couple years are more in that 225+ range and better suited to bang inside without losing their bounce.
***You're just quoting this to make a length/girth joke, aren't you?***
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I just think it's a style that most aren't used to seeing.
Marquette has the guards that are built like bullies and the forwards that are built to spread the floor. The idea is mismatches all over the floor.
Stevie, Wrightsil, and Ross are strong dudes that can play the 2 and 3, get in your face defensively, and put defenders in the rim with their strength offensively driving to the hoop.
Oso, Gold, OMax, and Jop stretch the floor.
Shaka Smart said Sean Jones is the fastest player he's EVER seen on a basketball court. That's some serious praise.
Kolek and Kam can shoot and Kolek was the best distributor in the league last year. This roster has a little bit of everything.
Kolek can shoot? 🤔
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Steele has a nice update today
Marquette basketball summer progress report: Shaka Smart gives thoughts and injury updates on every scholarship player (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/08/11/marquettes-shaka-smart-zach-wrightsil-emarion-ellis-injuries/10285046002/)
It was a pretty generic update. I didn’t get the impression Shaka was over the moon about anyone. Hopefully Kolek and Gold will be a nice pick and pop or roll combo. Sean Jones sounds interesting with his speed. I don’t think Shaka is expecting anything out of Itejere. We are ultra thin up front.
This year will be interesting. A step back looks inevitable. I definitely hope I’m wrong.
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Remember 4 frosh, 7 Sophomores and 1 senior! I would say that is a very young team this year!
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Remember 4 frosh, 7 Sophomores and 1 senior! I would say that is a very young team this year!
Sounds like Shaka's philosophy is to classify young, and stay young 😕
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Mcgavin …
I agree. It was as bland and generic of
an “ update “ as possible. This team is too young, too weak and has no size.
They also do not have anything close
to a “ stud “ or star player - for probably the first time in 20+ years
I too hope I am wrong …
But I think it will be an ugly and very disappointing year.
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Mcgavin …
I agree. It was as bland and generic of
an “ update “ as possible. This team is too young, too weak and has no size.
They also do not have anything close
to a “ stud “ or star player - for probably the first time in 20+ years
I too hope I am wrong …
But I think it will be an ugly and very disappointing year.
2014-2015 was much more bare than this, and coached by Wojo. No stars there either.
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I think we end up in about the same place as last season. 8-10 seed range.
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I think we end up in about the same place as last season. 8-10 seed range.
I feel you're not wrong. I'm slightly more bullish and think 5-6
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Next years team is severely high variance. Hoop Explorer is a good example of this. Their range for Marquette is from 16th to 87th. (projected for 47th.) Bartorvik which is offensive focused, is at 69th (nice). They could really be anything.
And that's ignoring the variance in win totals a (50th) rated team could have. 50th in Ken pom could be a 50% team outside any postseason play up to a 6 seed dependent on the in season luck.
Zach Wrightsil is going to be a major contributor on next years team, and its nearly impossible to get an accurate assessment on his efficiency on either end of the floor, due to coming form the best team in NAIA.
My biggest question for this team is actually our guards defense.
Stevie's both with the eye test and using metrics is a great defender. But there is a question of how often he can play when his offensive game is so limited.
Kolek has the efficiency numbers of a great defender. But had a horrible stretch at the end of the season. The last few weeks both him and morsell got beat off the dribble badly. Which version of Kolek's defense will we consistently see?
Kam Jones was a poor defender often, it felt like he and Joplin lost their man off ball two times more often than any other Marquette player. But Marquette will need Kams scoring this season and need his 3point attempts. He had a 73% 3PA Rate, with 18.5% of his remain attempts at the rim. He consistently took valuable attempts. Can Kam's defense improve to the point where marquette's defensive rating is near 98-100 with him on the floor?
Sean Jones, who i expect will spell Kolek, has great hands on the defensive side of the ball and is wicked fast. The question for him will be height, and can he be a net positive defender while being 5'10".
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The COLE is strong…
Mcgavin …
I agree. It was as bland and generic of
an “ update “ as possible. This team is too young, too weak and has no size.
They also do not have anything close
to a “ stud “ or star player - for probably the first time in 20+ years
I too hope I am wrong …
But I think it will be an ugly and very disappointing year.
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So … Point …
What do you predict?
As for my personal “ expectations “ …
I think they should make the Dance pretty much every year. And, a 10 year span of not Winning a single tournament game is pathetic
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10 guys see minutes, PT often determined by matchups or hot hand. I see a replication of last season. Mid-pack in the BE, 10-seed, quick exit. But, unless someone transfers out, there will be a lot of team continuity into ‘23-24. That could be the turning point to better days. Regardless, please put a beat down on RED…and ND too.
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12-8 in BE, 4th or 5th
So … Point …
What do you predict?
As for my personal “ expectations “ …
I think they should make the Dance pretty much every year. And, a 10 year span of not Winning a single tournament game is pathetic
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12-8 in BE, 4th or 5th
Point is that your realistic expectation or your hope? I know we all hold MU and Shaka to a high standard but with no go to guy on the roster on offense and a thin front line I’m not sure that’s realistic. I really hope I’m wrong and you are right by the way.
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Point is that your realistic expectation or your hope? I know we all hold MU and Shaka to a high standard but with no go to guy on the roster on offense and a thin front line I’m not sure that’s realistic. I really hope I’m wrong and you are right by the way.
Im with you at this point in time. Just so many questions. Hope I’m wrong as well, but this is just a really inexperienced team with a lack of interior physical prescence. Hoping for the best.
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I expect them to be better than last year based on a year being in Shaka’s system and a year of development (with players that have upside).
Point is that your realistic expectation or your hope? I know we all hold MU and Shaka to a high standard but with no go to guy on the roster on offense and a thin front line I’m not sure that’s realistic. I really hope I’m wrong and you are right by the way.
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I expect them to be better than last year based on a year being in Shaka’s system and a year of development (with players that have upside).
Sounds reasonable. Lots of prognosticators assume that guys will play as they did before, never accounting for improvement. I expect every returning player to get better, and a couple of them could get much better. And there's a lot to be said about comfort level within a system that was new to everybody.
But sure, there's hope involved, too. I hope that we can rebound better as a team and that we can hit enough 3s.
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I see 16-4 in conference
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Sounds reasonable. Lots of prognosticators assume that guys will play as they did before, never accounting for improvement. I expect every returning player to get better, and a couple of them could get much better. And there's a lot to be said about comfort level within a system that was new to everybody.
But sure, there's hope involved, too. I hope that we can rebound better as a team and that we can hit enough 3s.
Coach Smart is banking on development, improvement, and culture.
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Sounds reasonable. Lots of prognosticators assume that guys will play as they did before, never accounting for improvement. I expect every returning player to get better, and a couple of them could get much better. And there's a lot to be said about comfort level within a system that was new to everybody.
But sure, there's hope involved, too. I hope that we can rebound better as a team and that we can hit enough 3s.
I assume you mean, not accounting for improvement relative to other college players improvement. You assume Shaka will get our players to improve more than other teams players.
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I see 16-4 in conference
20-0 or bust
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I expect us to be slightly better than last season. However, we need to start getting the quill of these recruiting classes. Meaning guys with quicks, handles, defensive versatility, hops, stop and pop ability from distance, glass cleaners, and a ginsu bomb type player that can take over games.
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Hopefully, Joplin focused on D all off season. If he has, breakout season coming up.
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Waiting for KenPom to tell me what to think.
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I assume you mean, not accounting for improvement relative to other college players improvement. You assume Shaka will get our players to improve more than other teams players.
Not necessarily.
I expect the combination of the improvement of our returning players, combined with comfort in Shaka's system, combined with new players being integrated into the system with the help of role models who already have experienced it, will give us an advantage over many (but obviously not all) other teams.
I think that's a realistic expectation.
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And Value Add…
Waiting for KenPom to tell me what to think.
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Waiting for KenPom to tell me what to think.
That’s good. He’s far more accurate than the Joe Beer Guts on Scoop or 99% of most college basketball analysts. It’s why coaches use him
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Torvik Kenpom etc are fantastic to use when decent sample sizes of data from the current season are readily available.
It’s hard to pin down pre season values for players on a team like Marquette as there are so many unknowns.
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I expect them to be better than last year based on a year being in Shaka’s system and a year of development (with players that have upside).
Fair enough. There are players on this team with upside for sure (hell the entire team had flashes last year). It should fun to watch a well coached team that can develop year over year. I guess PTSD from Wojo along with no heralded recruits has me tempering my expectations.
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Likely has Bucky at #5 to start the year…
That’s good. He’s far more accurate than the Joe Beer Guts on Scoop or 99% of most college basketball analysts. It’s why coaches use him
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Likely has Bucky at #5 to start the year…
Take it up with the college basketball coaches that use analytics such as KenPom to schedule and improve their teams.
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As a freshman, Justin Lewis averaged 8 ppg.
As a freshman, Sam Hauser averaged 9 ppg.
In his first 2 seasons, Vander Blue averaged 7 ppg on 40% shooting.
Jae Crowder averaged 12 ppg his first season at Marquette after coming over from JUCO ranks. Jimmy Butler averaged 6 ppg in similar scenario.
Wes averaged 11 ppg his first 3 years at MU.
Sacar Anim got better every year.
Etc, etc, etc.
Most college players improve over time, some more than others of course.
I'm looking forward to seeing how much O-Max, Kam, Oso, Kolek and others improve.
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Wes averaged 11 ppg his first 3 years at MU.
Key the music to “Unchained Melody”.
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12-8 in BE, 4th or 5th
Who is finishing behind us in this scenario? Creighton, nova, Xavier or UConn ?
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Who is finishing behind us in this scenario? Creighton, nova, Xavier or UConn ?
UCONN is fairly easily the worst of this group. I think marquette fans hold them in a higher regard because they are a poor matchup for marquette. I think uconn will be better than MU this year, but there are alot of scenarios where they won't be.
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Who is finishing behind us in this scenario? Creighton, nova, Xavier or UConn ?
Yes.
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UConn
Who is finishing behind us in this scenario? Creighton, nova, Xavier or UConn ?
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That’s good. He’s far more accurate than the Joe Beer Guts on Scoop or 99% of most college basketball analysts. It’s why coaches use him
I don't say this often, but panda is correct here. KenPom is good once there's some data, but his preseason predictions are no better - and no less obvious - than the AP Poll (or Joe Beer Guts).
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UCONN is fairly easily the worst of this group. I think marquette fans hold them in a higher regard because they are a poor matchup for marquette. I think uconn will be better than MU this year, but there are alot of scenarios where they won't be.
Going out in a limb, but I really think UConn is a dark horse to win the league this year.
We all know Sanogo as one of the best, if not the best returning player in conference. I’m a big fan of Andre Jackson as a do it all guy ready to take a huge step this year. Diarra and Alleyne are both below the radar but big time additions to the rotation. These are both proven high major players that won’t have trouble with a change of scenery.
The biggest addition that’s not really talked about is the Tristan Newton addition. Without him, I’m not remotely as high on UConn as I am now. Two way player who vastly improved his overall offensive game last year. If he fully embraces the distribution role, he’ll be a step up from Cole. Bigger more physical guard who is just as good a scorer and a better passer than Cole.
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I don't say this often, but panda is correct here. KenPom is good once there's some data, but his preseason predictions are no better - and no less obvious - than the AP Poll (or Joe Beer Guts).
KenPom preseason is just an educated guess, but it is a more educated guess than the ones made by the AP Poll and Joey Beer Guts
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KenPom preseason is just an educated guess, but it is a more educated guess than the ones made by the AP Poll and Joey Beer Guts
Is it? Based on what? It doesn't seem to be any better at predicting the future.
KenPom's preseason top 25 vs final top 25:
Correct teams in top 10: 5
Correct teams in top 25: 17
AP's preseason top 25 vs final top 25:
Correct in top 10: 7
Correct in top 25: 15
It's just one year - because I have no time or inclination to do multiple years - but it doesn't seem as if Ken's preseason algorithm is any more accurate than the collective wisdom of the Omaha World Herald, Raleigh News & Observer or Cleveland Plain Dealer. Heck, when it came to the top 10, Ken's algorithm did no better than a coin flip at predicting what it would say at season's end.
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Is it? Based on what? It doesn't seem to be any better at predicting the future.
KenPom's preseason top 25 vs final top 25:
Correct teams in top 10: 5
Correct teams in top 25: 17
AP's preseason top 25 vs final top 25:
Correct in top 10: 7
Correct in top 25: 15
It's just one year - because I have no time or inclination to do multiple years - but it doesn't seem as if Ken's preseason algorithm is any more accurate than the collective wisdom of the Omaha World Herald, Raleigh News & Observer or Cleveland Plain Dealer. Heck, when it came to the top 10, Ken's algorithm did no better than a coin flip at predicting what it would say at season's end.
It is because it is based on unbiased data instead of biased opinions.
Comparing preseason to final poll is not an accurate indicator. No one can predict things like injuries, transfers, etc.
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It is because it is based on unbiased data instead of biased opinions.
Comparing preseason to final poll is not an accurate indicator. No one can predict things like injuries, transfers, etc.
If comparing his preseason rankings to his final rankings isn't an accurate indicator of the predictive power of his algorithm, what is? How do you judge?
Are the predictions of AP voters not subject to the same vagaries of injuries, transfers, etc. as KenPom?
Which of the teams in KenPom's preseason top 10 that didn't live up to that billing underachieved as a result of injuries, transfers, etc.?
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If comparing his preseason rankings to his final rankings isn't an accurate indicator of the predictive power of his algorithm, what is? How do you judge?
Are the predictions of AP voters not subject to the same vagaries of injuries, transfers, etc. as KenPom?
Which of the teams in KenPom's preseason top 10 that didn't live up to that billing underachieved as a result of injuries, transfers, etc.?
You judge by method. Which method uses data, which method uses feelings.
They are. Off the court factors are random and can't be predicted by any method. They could benefit one method one year and one method another. Theoretically it would balance out if analyzed over multiple seasons.
I don't know, feel free to look and get back to me.
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You judge by method. Which method uses data, which method uses feelings.
They are. Off the court factors are random and can't be predicted by any method. They could benefit one method one year and one method another. Theoretically it would balance out if analyzed over multiple seasons.
I don't know, feel free to look and get back to me.
You're using circular reasoning: saying a data-driven approach is better because it's data-driven, not because it produces better results.
And then let's consider that you're giving credit to KenPom for being based on data, even though for the pre-season projections he doesn't have any actual performance data for the 2022-23 season.
And if he's simply applying an algorithm on last year's stats, he's unable to incorporate qualitative observations that would cause a player to deviate from that algorithm. Justin and Ighodaro both overperformed the data-driven expectations because his freshmen stats were impacted by an injury. Kolek and Morsell outperformed data-driven projections because they were asked to take on different roles on a new team.
Sportswriters and others incorporate those observations into their "feelings" in ways that a data-driven algorithm cannot.
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Who is finishing behind us in this scenario? Creighton, nova, Xavier or UConn ?
I get why Creighton is the favorite, but they have a lot of screaming flaws that gives me pause to consider them a top-25 team, much less the top-10 that seems to be the foolhardy consensus.
- McDermott has had a top-25 defense just twice in his 21 year career. Not sure he'll replicate that while losing his best defensive on/off performer in Hawkins.
- Baylor Scheierman was a beast against the no-defense Summit, but his career Tier A+B numbers (which is every night in the Big East) are terrible. He's also a really bad defender himself.
- McDermott's best offenses have been buoyed by 3PFG%. Last year's 30.8% from deep was the worst of his career, and they lost their two best three point shooters in Hawkins and O'Connell. Scheierman might seem like the answer, but despite his 46.2% from 3 last year, he is 26.1% for his career from deep against A+B competition and was just 23.3% last year.
They return plenty, and I understand why they're the favorite, but right now I think Creighton, UConn, Xavier, Villanova, Marquette, and maybe Providence are on pretty even footing in that there are reasons to be optimistic about competing for the league title but just as many reasons to be skeptical. Honestly, if Creighton loses in overtime to SDSU, no one is talking about them. I think Kaluma has great breakout potential, but they feel like one of those classically overhyped teams that is more like a 20-30 ranked team than someone with legitimate national championship aspirations.
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You're using circular reasoning: saying a data-driven approach is better because it's data-driven, not because it produces better results.
And then let's consider that you're giving credit to KenPom for being based on data, even though for the pre-season projections he doesn't have any actual performance data for the 2022-23 season.
And if he's simply applying an algorithm on last year's stats, he's unable to incorporate qualitative observations that would cause a player to deviate from that algorithm. Justin and Ighodaro both overperformed the data-driven expectations because his freshmen stats were impacted by an injury. Kolek and Morsell outperformed data-driven projections because they were asked to take on different roles on a new team.
Sportswriters and others incorporate those observations into their "feelings" in ways that a data-driven algorithm cannot.
Yup, this is exactly it, and it's why last year's KenPom prediction for MU - which we were told over and over should be the basis for our expectations - was totally worthless. Virtually everything about last year's MU team was new. New coaches. New system. New players who'd never played together. Players taking new and often more significant roles.
Why would anyone reasonably expect the previous year's data - with players on different teams in different roles with different systems and different teammates - would be an accurate indicator of what would happen at Marquette? Because, clearly Ken's algorithm missed the mark by a wide margin.
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Yup, this is exactly it, and it's why last year's KenPom prediction for MU - which we were told over and over should be the basis for our expectations
This is your problem here. No one said this last year or any year. This is a strawman that some like to bring out in the same flavor as "why don't we let KenPom crown the champion" and "why do we even need to play the games". KenPom is one tool of many out there that can help give an idea of what a reasonable projection for a team is. That's it. No one is saying it is gospel. Of course there are factors that can't be accurately accounted for by any algorithm. It's just meant to give an unbiased ballpark projection. If you want to make an argument why you think KenPom (or other services) is over or underestimating a specific team, great that makes sense. But insisting Marquette will do better because Marquette is my favorite team isn't a good argument.
Why would anyone reasonably expect the previous year's data - with players on different teams in different roles with different systems and different teammates - would be an accurate indicator of what would happen at Marquette? Because, clearly Ken's algorithm missed the mark by a wide margin.
Wide margin? It projected 87, we ended 56. Out of 359 teams, that's not a very wide margin. And you are right, there a lot of factors that apply to last years team that made us a lot harder to project than most teams so some variability was expected. But you may also recall that other methods, including Joey Beer Gut, were also projecting us lower than we ended up.
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Yup, this is exactly it, and it's why last year's KenPom prediction for MU - which we were told over and over should be the basis for our expectations - was totally worthless. Virtually everything about last year's MU team was new. New coaches. New system. New players who'd never played together. Players taking new and often more significant roles.
Why would anyone reasonably expect the previous year's data - with players on different teams in different roles with different systems and different teammates - would be an accurate indicator of what would happen at Marquette? Because, clearly Ken's algorithm missed the mark by a wide margin.
I'm a bit confused by this. Who told us over and over that kenpom should be the basis for expectations last year?
Also, is it any surprise an algorithm would perform worse when there's mass turnover? I get that the AP Poll to start the year is typically a pretty good indicator, but that's likely largely because the teams that are good tend to continue to be good.
I guess my question to the last bit would be "who got us right?" Pretty much every major pundit I recall had Marquette somewhere in the 9-11 range in the league. If Pomeroy's model deserves criticism for having us there, so be it, but where is the better indicator that accurately pegged us 5-6?
The prediction business is tricky. If someone wants to do a comprehensive review of how kenpom, Sagarin, T-Rank, 3MW, BPI, EvanMiya, Conference Coaches, and all the other people who try to prognosticate in October do when the first Monday in April concludes, I'm sure we'd all love to see it. I'm equally sure that whatever model ended up doing the best would have plenty of years when it did poorly as well.
I think the advantage to a model like kenpom or T-Rank, or a more thorough review like 3MW or the conference preseason rankings aggregated is that they look at everyone. The AP Poll gives you 25 teams. That's it. And no, the "others receiving votes" don't count as 26-40 (or whatever) because the poll can only measure to 25. When you have 350+ teams, that's pretty useless. Even when you are just trying to peg 68 NCAA teams it's not very helpful. And while the data out will only be as good as the data in and can't account for anything, I definitely think a lot more goes into the data of 350+ teams that a model like that spits out than the pollsters that have a vague working knowledge in the preseason of maybe 50-75 teams. Because if you're not putting as much effort into 76-350+, you really aren't doing much at all.
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You judge by method. Which method uses data, which method uses feelings.
So it's your contention that AP poll voters use "feelings" rather than data? They just get up in the morning and say, "Hmmm, I think I'll put Kentucky No. 7 today based on nothing but my feelings"?
I am NOT saying the voters are infallible or wonderful or even better than KP. I am saying that most of them probably use KP (and other data services) in helping them decide how to vote and that they don't just slap together a top-25 based on feelings. Do their own personal observations influence their picks? Certainly yes for some (or even most), and I happen to look at that as a plus; but I'll admit that I'm not neutral on the subject.
Of course, rankings in August or October or even December don't really "matter" at all. They're just for conversations like the one we're having.
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So it's your contention that AP poll voters use "feelings" rather than data? They just get up in the morning and say, "Hmmm, I think I'll put Kentucky No. 7 today based on nothing but my feelings"?
I am NOT saying the voters are infallible or wonderful or even better than KP. I am saying that most of them probably use KP (and other data services) in helping them decide how to vote and that they don't just slap together a top-25 based on feelings. Do their own personal observations influence their picks? Certainly yes for some (or even most), and I happen to look at that as a plus; but I'll admit that I'm not neutral on the subject.
Of course, rankings in August or October or even December don't really "matter" at all. They're just for conversations like the one we're having.
That's fair, I shouldn't have said that. AP writers use a variety of methods ranging from detailed study of every team to feelings depending on the contributor. Brew's point is a good one though, projecting the top 25 is easy compared to projecting #s 100-320
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But insisting Marquette will do better because Marquette is my favorite team isn't a good argument.
What's that you were saying about straw men?
I don't wish to review a year's worth of posts on Scoop, but if you don't recall how many people pointed to the KenPom preseason rankings during debates about expectations last season, then I'll just say you and I remember things differently.
Wide margin? It projected 87, we ended 56. Out of 359 teams, that's not a very wide margin. And you are right, there a lot of factors that apply to last years team that made us a lot harder to project than most teams so some variability was expected. But you may also recall that other methods, including Joey Beer Gut, were also projecting us lower than we ended up.
Yeah, a wide margin because 200+ of those 359 teams don't count. I'm not giving kudos to Ken or anyone else for accurately predicting that MU would have a better team than McNeese State and Houston Baptist. A 31-spot swing amongst its peer group - which is significantly smaller than 359 - is a large margin.
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It is because it is based on unbiased data i
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My only comment to this exercise is that the "data" may be unbiased, but the weight he gives to each data point is subjective .
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What's that you were saying about straw men?
I don't wish to review a year's worth of posts on Scoop, but if you don't recall how many people pointed to the KenPom preseason rankings during debates about expectations last season, then I'll just say you and I remember things differently.
Pointing to KenPom during a conversation is not the same thing as telling someone that should be the baseline for your expectations. Again it is one tool of many.
And I'm not building a straw man. There were plenty of posters who insisted that it doesn't matter who's on the roster, their expectations for Marquette don't change, they just expect Marquette to do well. There were more who didn't give any explanation for their expectations just insisted that Marquette was going to do well.
Yeah, a wide margin because 200+ of those 359 teams don't count. I'm not giving kudos to Ken or anyone else for accurately predicting that MU would have a better team than McNeese State and Houston Baptist. A 31-spot swing amongst its peer group - which is significantly smaller than 359 - is a large margin.
Of course they count. KP's algorithm doesn't give you a bonus for being a high major or a perceived better team. It is just based on the numbers and all teams have an equal opportunity to put up numbers that will lead to higher rankings. And again, that's the biggest difference between the AP Poll and something like KP. Picking out the top 25 teams is relatively easy because there are a few programs that are on the end of the bell curve and obviously stand out from the rest. Projecting the middle of the bell curve is much more difficult.
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Wide margin? It projected 87, we ended 56. Out of 359 teams, that's not a very wide margin. And you are right, there a lot of factors that apply to last years team that made us a lot harder to project than most teams so some variability was expected. But you may also recall that other methods, including Joey Beer Gut, were also projecting us lower than we ended up.
I mean, the absolute worst power conference team finished 219 last year. I can just blindly guess that in 2025 Marquette will finish somewhere between 20th and 85th in KenPom. The realistic range is much, much smaller than 359 spots for Marquette. Given that, I'd say off by 31 spots is a pretty wide margin.
KenPom is fine. The problem with it is that, while the backers here are claiming nobody says it's Gospel, there are A LOT of people who treat it like Gospel. It's a nice tool. But it's a flawed tool. It had Wisconsin way overranked for the better part of a decade. It has had Gonzaga in the top 2 in 5 of the past 6 seasons. They've been that in one or two seasons. Certainly not 5 of the past 6.
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My only comment to this exercise is that the "data" may be unbiased, but the weight he gives to each data point is subjective .
Sure, but those data point weightings are equal across the 350+ teams, so I don't see how that would create a bias.
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And again, that's the biggest difference between the AP Poll and something like KP. Picking out the top 25 teams is relatively easy because there are a few programs that are on the end of the bell curve and obviously stand out from the rest. Projecting the middle of the bell curve is much more difficult.
To illustrate this point, the difference between #56 Marquette and the team that actually finished #87 (Northwestern) was 3.68 Adj eDM (the actual stat that KP calculates and then ranks). That is smaller than the difference between #1 Gonzaga and #4 Baylor (3.91).
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To illustrate this point, the difference between #56 Marquette and the team that actually finished #87 (Northwestern) was 3.68 Adj eDM (the actual stat that KP calculates and then ranks). That is smaller than the difference between #1 Gonzaga and #4 Baylor (3.91).
Which goes to show how flawed it is. Gonzaga was...not that good this year, relative to teams Few has had recently.
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It has had Gonzaga in the top 2 in 5 of the past 6 seasons. They've been that in one or two seasons. Certainly not 5 of the past 6.
Hmm...so I assume you are just as biased against the AP Poll? It has had Gonzaga in the top 2 in 4 of the past 6 seasons. In one of the two outliers, they were 4th.
Gonzaga was absolutely top-2 in 2017, 2020, and 2021. Both the vast preponderance of polls and NCAA results bear that out. I don't think there's any argument against that.
In 2022, they started the year #1, fell when they dropped their first game, then climbed back to #2 in Week 10 and remained in the top-2 the rest of the season. So while I guess you can dispute 2022 because they lost in the Sweet 16, the AP Poll consensus was that they were one of the top two teams in the country for the vast majority of the season.
2019 is the other year you can dispute. Their only losses before falling to St. Mary's in the WCC Final were to AP Final Poll #3 UNC and #6 Tennessee. They beat the Duke team that finished #1. So they were maybe third or fourth, with UVA and UNC the other contenders for top level status.
Honestly, saying Gonzaga has been #1 or #2 in "one or two seasons" is FAR more hyperbolic than saying they were #1 in five of the last six. I'd say it's pretty clearly at least four of six with a decent case for five.
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Sure, but those data point weightings are equal across the 350+ teams, so I don't see how that would create a bias.
Depends on what data points he weighs heavier.
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I get why Creighton is the favorite, but they have a lot of screaming flaws that gives me pause to consider them a top-25 team, much less the top-10 that seems to be the foolhardy consensus.
- McDermott has had a top-25 defense just twice in his 21 year career. Not sure he'll replicate that while losing his best defensive on/off performer in Hawkins.
- Baylor Scheierman was a beast against the no-defense Summit, but his career Tier A+B numbers (which is every night in the Big East) are terrible. He's also a really bad defender himself.
- McDermott's best offenses have been buoyed by 3PFG%. Last year's 30.8% from deep was the worst of his career, and they lost their two best three point shooters in Hawkins and O'Connell. Scheierman might seem like the answer, but despite his 46.2% from 3 last year, he is 26.1% for his career from deep against A+B competition and was just 23.3% last year.
They return plenty, and I understand why they're the favorite, but right now I think Creighton, UConn, Xavier, Villanova, Marquette, and maybe Providence are on pretty even footing in that there are reasons to be optimistic about competing for the league title but just as many reasons to be skeptical. Honestly, if Creighton loses in overtime to SDSU, no one is talking about them. I think Kaluma has great breakout potential, but they feel like one of those classically overhyped teams that is more like a 20-30 ranked team than someone with legitimate national championship aspirations.
Totally agree on Creighton. Schierman is the lovable low major tourney success type player that garners lots of pre season hype, but certainly isn’t a lock to play at the same level.
Xavier is a more even money pick for me to win the league. They played so well in the NIT post Steele and Sean miller is a massive upgrade on the sidelines. It will be interesting to see if he can figure out a way (or wants) to play Nunge and Freemantle together for long stretches, look out. Souley Boum is an interesting piece. Admittedly only watched him play twice last year, but he’s a bucket. He’ll be a very dangerous piece if he can accept being third fiddle. He’s never met a shot he didn’t like so the situation could definitely go either way.
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Hmm...so I assume you are just as biased against the AP Poll? It has had Gonzaga in the top 2 in 4 of the past 6 seasons. In one of the two outliers, they were 4th.
Gonzaga was absolutely top-2 in 2017, 2020, and 2021. Both the vast preponderance of polls and NCAA results bear that out. I don't think there's any argument against that.
In 2022, they started the year #1, fell when they dropped their first game, then climbed back to #2 in Week 10 and remained in the top-2 the rest of the season. So while I guess you can dispute 2022 because they lost in the Sweet 16, the AP Poll consensus was that they were one of the top two teams in the country for the vast majority of the season.
2019 is the other year you can dispute. Their only losses before falling to St. Mary's in the WCC Final were to AP Final Poll #3 UNC and #6 Tennessee. They beat the Duke team that finished #1. So they were maybe third or fourth, with UVA and UNC the other contenders for top level status.
Honestly, saying Gonzaga has been #1 or #2 in "one or two seasons" is FAR more hyperbolic than saying they were #1 in five of the last six. I'd say it's pretty clearly at least four of six with a decent case for five.
I don't really think I'm biased against either the AP polls or KenPom. I'm biased against people who say that KenPom is not Gospel and only one of many data points...and then constantly recite KenPom's numbers and constantly defend it.
There are years where Gonzaga is awesome and has a legitimate chance to win a National Title. 2021 they could have, if Baylor wasn't significantly better than them (and everyone else). But they were legit contenders.
Last year? I never even came close to even thinking about putting them in the Final Four. Relative to what Few has had over the last decade, they weren't close to one of his best teams. Their best wins were an overrated Texas team early in the year and an overrated UCLA team early in the year. The win over Texas Tech was an impressive win, and the loss to an overrated Bama team wasn't impressive. Really struggled with Memphis in the second round and their loss to Arkansas wasn't just a fluke game where they played bad, they absolutely looked like a worse team both in that game and in the 3 Tourney games they played.
Of course they're going to keep (or rise) their ranking when they go into conference play. They play...St. Mary's? BYU? And San Francisco? Terrifying.
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I think Xavier is a solid pick. Miller is a major upgrade and Scruggs might be addition by subtraction. I also feel like people are overlooking 'Nova. I do worry about their PG situation, but Slater, Dixon, and Daniels are all solid and Cam Whitmore looks like a BEFOY lock and potential lottery pick. If Brizzi or Longino can provide even replacement level PG minutes, they'll be right there for the league crown.
I think Marquette, Creighton, Providence, and UConn are all pretty similar behind those two. Plenty to be optimistic about, but also serious cause for concerns.
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MU will have a hard time against any physical center, if Oso can add anything to his repertoire of shots it could lead to a MU advantage on offense, time will tell. Creighton, UConn will be a problem. Nunge at Xavier not as much, plays more outside.
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I think Xavier is a solid pick. Miller is a major upgrade and Scruggs might be addition by subtraction. I also feel like people are overlooking 'Nova. I do worry about their PG situation, but Slater, Dixon, and Daniels are all solid and Cam Whitmore looks like a BEFOY lock and potential lottery pick. If Brizzi or Longino can provide even replacement level PG minutes, they'll be right there for the league crown.
I think Marquette, Creighton, Providence, and UConn are all pretty similar behind those two. Plenty to be optimistic about, but also serious cause for concerns.
Nova is going to be my Wisconsin type bugaboo team until they prove otherwise without coach Jay. They have good not great talent, not a ton of depth, but hard to bet against them given their success.
My point to the original poster is that there is a pretty significant “proven” talent gulf between us and the top four teams listed. I hope our guys take jumps, but I fear it will be a rocky season if the development doesn’t happen quickly.
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I continue to bullish on MU this coming season. I believe we will see improvement across the board on returning players . I
Confident our transfer will comfortably perform at The Big East level and be a major contributor . My guess is one out of the three freshman will emerge as a rotation player early in the season and a second will emerge as an energy type toward the end of the season .
The Big East is a formidable conference and presents a challenge . However , I believe that MU is on par with all the teams in the league and will have the benefit of team continuity
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I don't really think I'm biased against either the AP polls or KenPom. I'm biased against people who say that KenPom is not Gospel and only one of many data points...and then constantly recite KenPom's numbers and constantly defend it.
Go back and read the thread Wades. No one was reciting KenPom here. Pakuni brought it up and he is decidedly not one of the Prophets of KenPom. Then when Pakuni and you made legitimate criticisms of KenPom, no one tried to defend against those because you were right. There are significant limitations and KenPom does overvalue teams that play certain styles. The only defense is against those that think it is useless. And if you don't like reading that, it's a college basketball forum in mid-August, what else is there to talk about?
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Go back and read the thread Wades. No one was reciting KenPom here. Pakuni brought it up and he is decidedly not one of the Prophets of KenPom. Then when Pakuni and you made legitimate criticisms of KenPom, no one tried to defend against those because you were right. There are significant limitations and KenPom does overvalue teams that play certain styles. The only defense is against those that think it is useless. And if you don't like reading that, it's a college basketball forum in mid-August, what else is there to talk about?
Well said. The stat sites do a good good job of developing a baseline so posters can argue why a team is better or worse than that baseline. It at least level sets the discussion. Each stat site has issues with methodology yet it's better than just the "eye test". In fact, many of those voters in the polls start with a stat site.
That said, KPom had MU finishing 56th last season. Others around 68th. My eye test had MU around the 87th range after the collapse after February/March swoon. I checked out after sitting through that DePaul debacle live.
Thus, with what MU lost and what we have, I am thinking the stat sites are a bit optimistic towards MU in the preseason as it is based largely on last season. I am feeling the 87th range and 8/9th place. I think this is Year 2 at Texas.
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I think this is Year 2 at Texas.
11-22? Jeez, I hope not!
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That said, KPom had MU finishing 56th last season. Others around 68th. My eye test had MU around the 87th range after the collapse after February/March swoon. I checked out after sitting through that DePaul debacle live.
Thus, with what MU lost and what we have, I am thinking the stat sites are a bit optimistic towards MU in the preseason as it is based largely on last season. I am feeling the 87th range and 8/9th place. I think this is Year 2 at Texas.
The guys MU lost also played a decent hand in that swoon, so who knows.
I don't know if they reach the late-January highs of last season, but I do think the floor is higher.
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11-22? Jeez, I hope not!
Rather than that literal record, I am feeling a reset year.
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Rather than that literal record, I am feeling a reset year.
Ah.
Still hope you're wrong ... and no doubt you also hope you're wrong.
Without knowing enough about all of our opponents, I still feel pretty good about the guys we have and the improvement many will make. Shaka's been a pretty good talent-developer over the years.
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That video of Oso blocking Itejere is absolutely ridiculous. If his guard skills are real like Shaka says, in that 6'10" body, I think he's going to have a meteoric rise the next few years.
Also Stevie playing above the rim! Awesome!
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That video of Oso blocking Itejere is absolutely ridiculous. If his guard skills are real like Shaka says, in that 6'10" body, I think he's going to have a meteoric rise the next few years.
Also Stevie playing above the rim! Awesome!
This is Scoop. I think you mean: Itejere must not be as athletic as everyone has been saying.
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This is Scoop. I think you mean: Itejere must not be as athletic as everyone has been saying.
His head was above the rim. He floated.
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His head was above the rim. He floated.
They practice on 8' rims just so you know.
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4-0 in the BEast before the season is shutdown due to monkey pox or WWIII
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4-0 in the BEast before the season is shutdown due to monkey pox or WWIII
I think that's a banner worthy accomplishment!
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4-0 in the BEast before the season is shutdown due to monkey pox or WWIII
#endoftimes #permaban
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Ah.
Still hope you're wrong ... and no doubt you also hope you're wrong.
Without knowing enough about all of our opponents, I still feel pretty good about the guys we have and the improvement many will make. Shaka's been a pretty good talent-developer over the years.
It's a COLE year for me but I am truly looking forward to the development of players and coaches. I am expecting exciting things from Sean Jones. I think Oso and Joplin make big jumps.
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It's a COLE year for me but I am truly looking forward to the development of players and coaches. I am expecting exciting things from Sean Jones. I think Oso and Joplin make big jumps.
.
After talking to somebody in the know, talent is there, now it is getting the players to buy into there roles, and he said now we will see what type of coach Shaka is.
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4-0 in the BEast before the season is shutdown due to monkey pox or WWIII
I am more afraid of World War III than I am monkey pox.
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Last year in our 19 wins we averaged 76.89 pts and gave up 66.32 pts for an average winning margin just over 10 points. Last year in our 13 losses we averaged 69.31 points and gave up 79.38 points for an average losing margin of just over 10 points per game. That is a 20-point margin swing between wins and losses. I am not sure what to think about this, but the 10-point losing margin does not give me a lot of confidence,
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4-0 in the BEast before the season is shutdown due to monkey pox or WWIII
Undefeated season or bust
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Unscored on or bust
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Busts or bust
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Ben Gold playing for the NZ national team.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/mgtapes/status/1559965915566989315?cxt=HHwWhoCzsYavjqYrAAAA
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https://mobile.twitter.com/mgtapes/status/1559965915566989315?cxt=HHwWhoCzsYavjqYrAAAA
He looks slow to me.
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He looks slow to me.
Remember we are COLE....
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He transferred to Providence? So much for roster continuity.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUQt7mEXw2w
If you pay attention, you can see Gold. The one basket of his (at the :50 mark) that they show is a left handed lay up through contact off of a pick and roll.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUQt7mEXw2w
If you pay attention, you can see Gold. The one basket of his (at the :50 mark) that they show is a left handed lay up through contact off of a pick and roll.
Elite.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1562551976734638080
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He looks slow to me.
;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUQt7mEXw2w
If you pay attention, you can see Gold. The one basket of his (at the :50 mark) that they show is a left handed lay up through contact off of a pick and roll.
He actually brought the ball up court and initiated the play. Then he rolled to the hoop and, as you said, finished through pretty hard contact. Nice little highlight.
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;D
Scene in person, he is not slow. Looks faster then either Hauser boys. Play him at the 4 or 5, he will be fine. Yes, he is not as quick as a Normal 3.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1562551976734638080
Fantastic for building School Spirit
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Just thought of this... I hope he was given his classroom study materials to work on while on the other side of the world.
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Scene in person, he is not slow. Looks faster then either Hauser boys. Play him at the 4 or 5, he will be fine. Yes, he is not as quick as a Normal 3.
WhiteTrash was referring to the Kolek highlights...you know, the one in slow motion?
Humor is wasted on Scoop.
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Only on some. I appreciated it Dr. B.
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Scene in person, he is not slow. Looks faster then either Hauser boys. Play him at the 4 or 5, he will be fine. Yes, he is not as quick as a Normal 3.
My left nut is faster than either Hauser.
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My left nut is faster than either Hauser.
Racist
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My left nut is faster than either Hauser.
explain. Oh…never mind.
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COLE’s muse.
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My left nut is faster than either Hauser.
Uniball?
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My left nut is faster than either Hauser.
Poor Mrs. Rico.
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Solid academic performance by the team this summer
https://www.instagram.com/p/Chu5EB6Obmm/?hl=en
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/ChzIVATLyv_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
Listen to Ben.
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Solid academic performance by the team this summer
https://www.instagram.com/p/Chu5EB6Obmm/?hl=en
Because they only take the easy classes.
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Hopefully more of these moments this coming year.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44V_Wo3lHM
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Hopefully more of these moments this coming year.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44V_Wo3lHM
Scoring against a crappy Georgetown team?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bga7YEXTQ8Q
If you would like to see Ben make a 3, finish with his left hand, go up and take a hit..... you know, MU BB stuff......
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bga7YEXTQ8Q
If you would like to see Ben make a 3, finish with his left hand, go up and take a hit..... you know, MU BB stuff......
Getting tempered enthusiasm vibes from Ben Gold
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In the highlights of the two games, I have seen him take a lot of contact from grown men. I have seen that he has a good handle, is ambidextrous around the basket, is agile. He has gotten bounced around. But..... he hasn't played a ton of basketball the last few years. And these national teams, though not as athletic or talented, are certainly nearly as physical as the Big East. So, good experience for the kid.
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In the highlights of the two games, I have seen him take a lot of contact from grown men. I have seen that he has a good handle, is ambidextrous around the basket, is agile. He has gotten bounced around. But..... he hasn't played a ton of basketball the last few years. And these national teams, though not as athletic or talented, are certainly nearly as physical as the Big East. So, good experience for the kid.
Against the easy FIBA teams.
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Probably. But the kid needs run and reps.
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Gold looks like he has good form on his shot and a pretty nice all-around offensive game, and I like that he's been able to finish through contact. It was a highlight reel, so couldn't really tell anything about rebounding and D, but we'll find out soon enough.
Put me down for cautiously optimistic.
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Early on, Gold gets a block just as the cut starts. He ends up on his butt, the offensive player recovers the ball and lays it in. But if you watch it a couple of times, Gold gets a block.
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Gold's defense and ability not to foul will determine his playing time.
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Gold's defense and ability not to foul will determine his playing time.
I’d say that’s an accurate statement.
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By what criteria shall we judge that?
What will be the Gold standard?
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By what criteria shall we judge that?
What will be the Gold standard?
24 carat 99.9
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Getting tempered enthusiasm vibes from Ben Gold
Uh oh. Another video of Rob Lo(w)e.
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/300674012/tall-blacks-thump-jordan-to-improve-to-60-in-fiba-world-cup-qualifying-play
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/300674012/tall-blacks-thump-jordan-to-improve-to-60-in-fiba-world-cup-qualifying-play
1. This line might be of utmost interest to folks here: The Marquette-bound Ben Gold offered more than a hint of his potential with 15 points (on 6-of-12 shooting) and 7 boards
2. Not sure how the NZ team name would fly in the U.S. Actually, I am sure ... and it wouldn't.
3. Love the phrasing throughout the article, such as this paragraph:
Jordan, now 3-3 in qualifying, had been tabbed to give the New Zealanders a few anxious moments after running them close at the recent Asia Cup where Cameron’s men pipped them 83-75 to clinch the bronze medal. But they were never in this contest after trailing the red-hot shooting Tall Blacks 29-10 at the end of the opening quarter, and never got within challenging distance thereafter.
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Good experience for Ben. These opponents are very physical albeit not super quick or speedy, which is what he will face from Big East opponents .
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It is a take off of the name for the national Rugby team. And no, it doesn't play well.
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1. This line might be of utmost interest to folks here: The Marquette-bound Ben Gold offered more than a hint of his potential with 15 points (on 6-of-12 shooting) and 7 boards
2. Not sure how the NZ team name would fly in the U.S. Actually, I am sure ... and it wouldn't.
3. Love the phrasing throughout the article, such as this paragraph:
Jordan, now 3-3 in qualifying, had been tabbed to give the New Zealanders a few anxious moments after running them close at the recent Asia Cup where Cameron’s men pipped them 83-75 to clinch the bronze medal. But they were never in this contest after trailing the red-hot shooting Tall Blacks 29-10 at the end of the opening quarter, and never got within challenging distance thereafter.
The nickname's origin dates back to the 19th Century. Many rugby teams wore variations of blue uniforms, but New Zealand's national rugby team wore all black uniforms, so when they toured England, newspapers referred to them as the "all blacks" in reference to those uniforms. Similar to how in today's Premier League, Liverpool are still referred to as the Reds, Chelsea the Blues, or they frequently talk about the red (United) and blue (City) sides of Manchester.
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New Zealand's soccer team is called the "all whites" because that is primarily the color they wear.
It's just a nickname. And I don't think we have to worry about how it would "fly in the U.S." They don't play here.
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New Zealand's soccer team is called the "all whites" because that is primarily the color they wear.
It's just a nickname. And I don't think we have to worry about how it would "fly in the U.S." They don't play here.
Yup. Why are we trying to demand New Zealand conform to our linguistic sensibilities?
File this one under "not a problem to anyone who matters."
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T
2. Not sure how the NZ team name would fly in the U.S. Actually, I am sure ... and it wouldn't.
OMG
The idea that racism isn’t rooted in reality but rests only in the “feelings” of someone claiming victim status is losing steam. I guess some haven’t gotten the memo.
Their rugby team is the “All Blacks”. Who cares?
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OMG
Lol
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I don't think reasonable people have an issue with the NZ national basketball team being named the Tall Blacks assuming they know the etymology
No program in the USA (other than maybe a historically black organization) is naming themselves the Tall Blacks anytime in the near future.
Both of these statements can be true.
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Next interview Q for Gold should be if he supports a move back (officially) to Warriors.
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New Zealand's soccer team is called the "all whites" because that is primarily the color they wear.
It's just a nickname. And I don't think we have to worry about how it would "fly in the U.S." They don't play here.
Not to mention a substantial number of the All Blacks roster, and many of their stars for years, have been of Maori and other Pacific Islander descent.
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If Wrightsil can guard the 5 on D, then you can play Gold at the 4 and he becomes a mismatch. Shaka has really has 9 players who he can interchange. Itejere will be the 10th who might get some time on the court, Ross probably should redshirt this year, as I do not see much open playing time for him. No stars but lots of good players so it will be interesting how Shaka spreads the minutes.
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If Wrightsil can guard the 5 on D, then you can play Gold at the 4 and he becomes a mismatch. Shaka has really has 9 players who he can interchange. Itejere will be the 10th who might get some time on the court, Ross probably should redshirt this year, as I do not see much open playing time for him. No stars but lots of good players so it will be interesting how Shaka spreads the minutes.
Wrightsil was listed at Loyola last year as 6'7", 205 pounds.
The Big East may not be loaded with future lottery picks in the post, but he would be at a huge disadvantage trying to guard 5s.
And why put Gold at the 4 to create a mismatch? If his perimeter skills are what you think they might be, leave him at the 5 to create an even bigger mismatch and open space closer to the basket for the rest of the players by dragging the opposing 5 out of the paint.
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Wrightsil was listed at Loyola last year as 6'7", 205 pounds.
The Big East may not be loaded with future lottery picks in the post, but he would be at a huge disadvantage trying to guard 5s.
And why out Gold at the 4 to create a mismatch? If his perimeter skills are what you think they might be, leave him at the 5 to create an even bigger mismatch and open space closer to the basket for the rest of the players.
Unless wrightstill is the next Dennis Rodman.
We can only hope.
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New Zealand's soccer team is called the "all whites" because that is primarily the color they wear.
It's just a nickname. And I don't think we have to worry about how it would "fly in the U.S." They don't play here.
I'm not worried.
Yup. Why are we trying to demand New Zealand conform to our linguistic sensibilities?
File this one under "not a problem to anyone who matters."
I "demanded" nothing. Nor did I say it was a problem.
I don't think reasonable people have an issue with the NZ national basketball team being named the Tall Blacks assuming they know the etymology
No program in the USA (other than maybe a historically black organization) is naming themselves the Tall Blacks anytime in the near future.
Both of these statements can be true.
I have no issues with NZ nor with the name. I merely made a true statement, and a flip one at that (which you got).
Wrightsil was listed at Loyola last year as 6'7", 205 pounds.
And why put Gold at the 4 to create a mismatch? If his perimeter skills are what you think they might be, leave him at the 5 to create an even bigger mismatch and open space closer to the basket for the rest of the players by dragging the opposing 5 out of the paint.
Yessir. If Gold has those skills, as he seems to be demonstrating as a member of the NZ team, he is the mismatch because bigs generally aren't very good at defending the 3-point line. And, as you say, if they do go out there to defend, that leaves the lane open for drives.
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He can not guard a 5, it’s like having Novak guard a 5, no way
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He can not guard a 5, it’s like having Novak guard a 5, no way
He can't guard a 5 at 6'10", 220 ... but Wrightsil should at 6'7", 205?
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Kid is very skinny, do not see it
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When he’s on the floor, he’s on the floor
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This is poor discourse. Frankly it doesn't matter at all. Their are like 10-20 actual skillful true postplay 5s in college basketball at any given moment. Their are a two in the big east. Kur couldn't guard them last year. Nothing is different from last year or from any other Marquette team of the past 20+ years.
Tom Creans 2003 final four team struggle at defending dominant centers. Erik Murray grabs boards for Florida over our 6'6" Center Jay Crowder. The Lopez twins dominate Marquettes bigs.
It's like complaining about the temperature in February. What are you expecting?
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This is poor discourse. Frankly it doesn't matter at all. Their There are like 10-20 actual skillful true postplay 5s in college basketball at any given moment. Their There are a two in the big east. Kur couldn't guard them last year. Nothing is different from last year or from any other Marquette team of the past 20+ years.
Tom Creans Crean's 2003 final four team struggled at defending dominant centers. Erik Murray grabs boards for Florida over our 6'6" Center Jay Jae Crowder. The Lopez twins dominated Marquettes Marquette's bigs.
It's like complaining about the temperature in February. What are you expecting?
Better grammar?
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Better grammar?
The fact you took time to correct the grammar and post the insult reflects more poorly on you than the grammar errors made by jfp61. It's very likely he made the post from his phone and or wrote the post hastily and didn't proofread - like most of us who post here.
That aside, I've felt Ben Gold will surprise from the first time seeing his highlight videos after he signed. He's a better athlete than what many would think. Quite skilled too. High ceiling player.
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That aside, I've felt Ben Gold will surprise from the first time seeing his highlight videos after he signed. He's a better athlete than what many would think. Quite skilled too. High ceiling player.
You hadn’t seen him until AFTER he signed? Shameful, despite solid grammar.
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The fact you took time to correct the grammar and post the insult reflects more poorly on you than the grammar errors made by jfp61. It's very likely he made the post from his phone and or wrote the post hastily and didn't proofread - like most of us who post here.
It was really just a (poor) joke. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
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I don't think reasonable people have an issue with the NZ national basketball team being named the Tall Blacks assuming they know the etymology
No program in the USA (other than maybe a historically black organization) is naming themselves the Tall Blacks anytime in the near future.
Both of these statements can be true.
Tall Blacks? Who calls themselves the “Tall Blacks”?
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Tall Blacks? Who calls themselves the “Tall Blacks”?
... the New Zealand National Basketball Team? What we're discussing in this thread?
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It was really just a (poor) joke. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
What was the joke?
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Tall Blacks? Who calls themselves the “Tall Blacks”?
It's a play on the national rugby team's nickname, the "All Blacks."
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It's a play on the national rugby team's nickname, the "All Blacks."
Too international.....
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#70, 9th in BE.
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/20907
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Well, looks like golden opportunity to surprise people and walk off with some unexpected wins.
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#70, 9th in BE.
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/20907
Seems roughly correct to me. Then again, I thought we were placed pretty accurately going into last season and we exceeded those expectations. Although I thought that with Morsell defending at the point of attack and Kur protecting the rim, there was a formula in place to at least make it tough on opponents to score, which gives you a chance to win games you maybe shouldn't. Stevie could have that kind of on ball defense, but to me he knew his minutes would be limited and he wasn't asked to do much offensively, so he was able to come in and give 100% energy and risk picking up fouls applying pressure on the ball that a guy like Morsell, who is relied on to play 30+ minutes night in and night out and also provide offense couldn't do. If Stevie is going to be our shut down perimeter defender, he's going to have to play more minutes and probably can't play as hard all the time as he was able to in his minutes last year. We'll see what that does to his effectiveness defensively.
Rim protection? I see very little. Rebounding? Even less.
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#70, 9th in BE.
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/20907
Never trust a preview that highlights “rebound margin”
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9th place, and the NIT …
Hope I am wrong but, that sounds about right. There’s not enough talent on this team.
It may be a very long year.
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Top 5 big east and 2nd weekend team. Just need to learn how to rebound
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9th place, and the NIT …
Hope I am wrong but, that sounds about right. There’s not enough talent on this team.
It may be a very long year.
Agreed. Not sure about very long as I think there will be some bright spots and good wins. But I also expect an NIT team at best.
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So, that writer is NIT-picking MU.
Time to give up.
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Cole based mope squad
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COLE and more COLE
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Kid is very skinny, do not see it
Maybe Gold can guard a 5, maybe he can't.
But asking Wrightsil to do it isn't a superior option.
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Maybe Gold can guard a 5, maybe he can't.
But asking Wrightsil to do it isn't a superior option.
We'll see. If Wrightsil added 10-15 pounds, he might be able to do the job. Or if he is better at using leverage, or a quicker defender with good hands and use of wingspan. I'll admit our depth in the middle is one of my biggest concerns, and after Oso it seems like there are definite questions about all four potential options to back him up (Wrightsil, Gold, Itejere, O-Max), but while we don't know any of them can do it, we also haven't yet seen for sure that they can't.
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I'm still feeling somewhere in the 7 to 10 seed range. 3rd to 6th in the BEast
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It comes down to post defense and rebounding. The other pieces are there.
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It comes down to post defense and rebounding. The other pieces are there.
Not really sure on that either. Our leading returning player averaged 7.4 points per game. Our best chance at a newcomer scoring well is a player who was playing D2 basketball last year.
Only 3 returning players shot above 30% from three point range. One was 31.7% and another of those three made 7 total 3 pointers last year.
I don’t see a lot of offensive talent at all.
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It comes down to post defense and rebounding. The other pieces are there.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up Re: rebounding
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Not really sure on that either. Our leading returning player averaged 7.4 points per game. Our best chance at a newcomer scoring well is a player who was playing D2 basketball last year.
Only 3 returning players shot above 30% from three point range. One was 31.7% and another of those three made 7 total 3 pointers last year.
I don’t see a lot of offensive talent at all.
…NAIA, not D2. But I don’t disagree with your assessment. If I had pointed out what you have opined, I’m blasted as not being a MU fan, blah blah blah. Rather I’m probably too passionate, hence I hate taking this 10 yr ride on the mediocre train. Positive note is that the team will be very athletic, and returning players should be better in Shaka yr two. I do think a ncaa bid is attainable, and once in, who knows.
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…NAIA, not D2. But I don’t disagree with your assessment. If I had pointed out what you have opined, I’m blasted as not being a MU fan, blah blah blah. Rather I’m probably too passionate, hence I hate taking this 10 yr ride on the mediocre train. Positive note is that the team will be very athletic, and returning players should be better in Shaka yr two. I do think a ncaa bid is attainable, and once in, who knows.
What’s happened prior to Shaka is now irrelevant.
Legitimste questions about his roster are fair. Where is the scoring coming from? Can the interior defense hold up? What will the rebounding be like? Things of that nature. Talking about what happened before is pointless to the current roster
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We're gonna get to see how good Shaka and his assistants are.
We'll see if any player is ready to make a Lewis-like increase in production. We'll see if several guys can take significant steps up (even if not quite to the level that Lewis did from frosh to soph). And we'll see how ready Wrightsil, Gold and Sean Jones are to compete in the Big East.
It's Year 2 of Shaka. The culture, theoretically, has been established. The guys have had a full offseason together to bond and implement the system. If the team takes a step backward, it's on the coach. (Unless there are numerous injuries or other unpreventable circumstances.)
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Never trust a preview that highlights “rebound margin”
Rebounds no matta?
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Rebounds no matta?
Rebound margin doesn’t but rebound percentage does
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the level that Lewis did from frosh to soph RS frosh
FIFY :P
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#70, 9th in BE.
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/20907
#118th, 11th in BE
https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/ (https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/)
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Can't get any respect! Looks like I'm done reading College Sports Madness and The Hoops Resource.
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#118th, 11th in BE
https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/ (https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/)
Wow. Writer appears to be clueless & told lies.
If anyone wants MU in the cellar as a bet, I’ll give you very nice odds.
#ShakasSecondSchool
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#118th, 11th in BE
https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/ (https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/)
Given that the writer doesn't even know how many coaching gigs Shaka has had, I'll pass on this analysis. It's basically an "I feel like this guy is a role player" rather than actual statistical analysis.
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What gives me confidence that they will exceed expectations is the defense. The "culture" it seems to me is to be elite defensively and with the continuity they may be that right out of the gate.
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That #118 prediction is lazy writing, but he's saying Shaka would wear out his welcome at a second school, not that Marquette is the second school he coached at. He clearly was still welcome at VCU but there was plenty of skuttle that he wouldn't be back at Texas or would be on the hot seat if he didn't move on to Marquette.
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Can't get any respect! Looks like I'm done reading College Sports Madness and The Hoops Resource.
Looks like I’m done before I even start!
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so it's "star power" they are looking for and not NIL earnings? the staff there at hoops resource is a no trick pony
no mention of shaka
bulletin board material
go warriors!
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Reincarnate Bob Dukiet or hire Brian Wardle - that's what this program needs after Shaka wears out his welcome at a second school...
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#118th, 11th in BE
https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/ (https://thehoopsresource.com/2022-2023-big-east-college-basketball-preview/)
This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
We can only change that perception by consistent success on the court and I have not seen that in the last 10 years.
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard.
This has nothing to do with it. It is almost entirely about losing our top two minute guys who also were our only double digit scorers.
People really should stop thinking that disappointments from the last decade have any bearing on next year.
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
Oh woe is you because some clueless lazy writer picked Marquette 11th. This staff has been here one year and exceeded expectations in their only kick at the can. Trust me, I get that the Wojo years sucked. The greatest accomplishments were Henry Ellenson's draft status and Markus' Howard's individual scoring accomplishments. But the only sad thing here is fans that keep griping about "10 years ago" for a staff that has exceeded your expectations so far:
This is what you said when Shaka was hired:
All snarkiness aside he carries himself well, said all the right things. Now let's see if he can get the guys to actually play aggressive defense with high energy. What happens on the court is the only measure.
This is what you said last July:
I have no expectations what so ever. What I do know is that change was necessary. Now let's see what they can do. We'll know soon enough.
I get it. We're all frustrated because the program sucks...I'll give him 3 seasons.
This is what you said last September:
I would have picked us last as I have no idea how this team will perform on the court. Low expectations, yes; but hope I'm surprised. Also, respect is earned.
So...our defensive efficiency per kenpom the best rating since Buzz's 2013 season. On the court, the team made the NCAA Tournament. You said you would give him 3 seasons, and would've picked Marquette last in the Big East, yet you're still whining now because of some rando blog and blaming Smart's staff for what happened during Wojo's tenure. This refrain gets tiring.
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
We can only change that perception by consistent success on the court and I have not seen that in the last 10 years.
The BET was amazing in 2019, what are you on?
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
We can only change that perception by consistent success on the court and I have not seen that in the last 10 years.
Just say it COLE
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Oh woe is you because some clueless lazy writer picked Marquette 11th. This staff has been here one year and exceeded expectations
So...our defensive efficiency per kenpom the best rating since Buzz's 2013 season. On the court, the team made the NCAA Tournament. You said you would give him 3 seasons, and would've picked Marquette last in the Big East, yet you're still whining now because of some rando blog and blaming Smart's staff for what happened during Wojo's tenure. This refrain gets tiring.
Bravo, brewski!
It’s an effen mope-a-thon here, much (most?) of it based on past performances of different coaches and players.
Ridiculous COLE-slaw slurpers.
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Oh woe is you because some clueless lazy writer picked Marquette 11th. This staff has been here one year and exceeded expectations in their only kick at the can. Trust me, I get that the Wojo years sucked. The greatest accomplishments were Henry Ellenson's draft status and Markus' Howard's individual scoring accomplishments. But the only sad thing here is fans that keep griping about "10 years ago" for a staff that has exceeded your expectations so far:
This is what you said when Shaka was hired:
This is what you said last July:
This is what you said last September:
So...our defensive efficiency per kenpom the best rating since Buzz's 2013 season. On the court, the team made the NCAA Tournament. You said you would give him 3 seasons, and would've picked Marquette last in the Big East, yet you're still whining now because of some rando blog and blaming Smart's staff for what happened during Wojo's tenure. This refrain gets tiring.
The last 10 years have been tiring. Where was our best defensive efficiency since Buzz when we played UNC and were humiliated. We weren't even competitive in that game, not to rub it in, nor the last several games at the end of last season. Yes, the team exceeded my expectations, but that is not saying much.
This has nothing to do with it. It is almost entirely about losing our top two minute guys who also were our only double digit scorers.
People really should stop thinking that disappointments from the last decade have any bearing on next year.
We have been saying that for a long time now.
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The last 10 years have been tiring. Where was our best defensive efficiency since Buzz when we played UNC and were humiliated. We weren't even competitive in that game, not to rub it in, nor the last several games at the end of last season. Yes, the team exceeded my expectations, but that is not saying much.
We have been saying that for a long time now.
This is all just generalized whining.
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
We can only change that perception by consistent success on the court and I have not seen that in the last 10 years.
SAD. VERY SAD. THE SADDEST.
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The last 10 years have been tiring. Where was our best defensive efficiency since Buzz when we played UNC and were humiliated. We weren't even competitive in that game, not to rub it in, nor the last several games at the end of last season. Yes, the team exceeded my expectations, but that is not saying much.
We have been saying that for a long time now.
(https://c.tenor.com/XwJlPVh6ANcAAAAC/whiney-upset.gif)
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Where was our best defensive efficiency since Buzz when we played UNC and were humiliated. We weren't even competitive in that game
No kidding. Plus that UNC team was total garbage after that game.
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This might be a good time to list the Cambridge Dictionary definition of the word "outlook" (bolded words by me).
outlook noun [ S ] uk / ˈaʊtlʊk / us the way a particular situation is expected to develop in the future, for example, whether it will get better or worse: If the inflationary outlook continues to get worse, the central bank will not hesitate to act. the economic / financial / trading outlook the long-term / short-term /medium-term outlook
I see no reference here to the way a particular situation developed in the past ten years.
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Oh woe is you because some clueless lazy writer picked Marquette 11th. This staff has been here one year and exceeded expectations in their only kick at the can. Trust me, I get that the Wojo years sucked. The greatest accomplishments were Henry Ellenson's draft status and Markus' Howard's individual scoring accomplishments. But the only sad thing here is fans that keep griping about "10 years ago" for a staff that has exceeded your expectations so far:
This is what you said when Shaka was hired:
This is what you said last July:
This is what you said last September:
So...our defensive efficiency per kenpom the best rating since Buzz's 2013 season. On the court, the team made the NCAA Tournament. You said you would give him 3 seasons, and would've picked Marquette last in the Big East, yet you're still whining now because of some rando blog and blaming Smart's staff for what happened during Wojo's tenure. This refrain gets tiring.
are you retired? Lots of time, yes?
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are you retired? Lots of time, yes?
When 90% of your posts are non-basketball gripes in the Superbar, it's pretty quick to comb through for the Marquette related posts.
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This is the kind of press you get when you have not won an NCAA tournament game in 10 years, go on a crazy winning streak only to blow it at the end of the season and recruits that don't generate any buzz or excitement; albeit Markus Howard. I live only an hour from MSG and find it difficult to pay for a BET game as we have sucked playing there since we joined the league. Just think, if we finish higher than 11th in the league we exceeded expectations. This is a sad commentary from someone on the outside looking in at the program. My sad comments are from some one who has followed the program for more that 50 years and how I see the program over the last 10 years.
We can only change that perception by consistent success on the court and I have not seen that in the last 10 years.
If you bought a Thursday ticket for MSG, you would have seen MU every year except 2021.
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If you bought a Thursday ticket for MSG, you would have seen MU every year except 2021.
And he would have seen Marquette beat St. Johns by a whopping 32 points in 2019 as my wife and I did after traveling from Virginia, but the highly controversial 81-79 loss to Seton Hall would have been what he would focus on. I guess the 2018-19 team sucked because of the Murray State game and of course we sucked due to the 30+ loss to UNC last season. He conveniently forgot to mention the sweep of Nova. Let's focus on the worst games!
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I certainly do not expect MU to win the Big East this year, but I think the team is likely better than some people think. At the very least I expect them to be a lot of fun to watch and ti finish in the middle of the pack in the BE. If they can go 11-9 in the conference and get a tournament bid, I will consider it a successful year. Certainly I would like to see them do even better, but they are a very young team with a couple of big question marks.
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I certainly do not expect MU to win the Big East this year, but I think the team is likely better than some people think. At the very least I expect them to be a lot of fun to watch and ti finish in the middle of the pack in the BE. If they can go 11-9 in the conference and get a tournament bid, I will consider it a successful year. Certainly I would like to see them do even better, but they are a very young team with a couple of big question marks.
i like this^ i believe we will see a hard working shaka team! players will run thru brick walls to play for him. i don't believe shaka will be timid to sit anyone not playing shaka-ball. this includes the children of parents sitting behind the bench who know more than he
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i like this^ i believe we will see a hard working shaka team! players will run thru brick walls to play for him. i don't believe shaka will be timid to sit anyone not playing shaka-ball. this includes the children of parents sitting behind the bench who know more than he
Yup, and I'm not sure Shaka would even be interested in recruiting players with head case parents.
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Big Guards. Not necessarily tall, though some are, but weight room Big. All these guys have clearly put in some serious work off the court. Hopefully it translates!
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1565782552799055874?t=7JTSs033BHQNJ-tZSZn07g&s=19
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The outlook for this season's team boils down to this. Is the continuity and year to year development going to be enough? If it is, this will be a fun year. The guards with 5-10 more lbs of muscle. Oso being 15 lbs stronger. Understanding the system and expectations. If, as Nevada said, that this team is going to play faster longer because of all of the offseason work.
If it works, watch out. If it didn't work, watch out in a different way.
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The outlook for this season's team boils down to this. Is the continuity and year to year development going to be enough? If it is, this will be a fun year. The guards with 5-10 more lbs of muscle. Oso being 15 lbs stronger. Understanding the system and expectations. If, as Nevada said, that this team is going to play faster longer because of all of the offseason work.
If it works, watch out. If it didn't work, watch out in a different way.
My guess is the Coaches , who see these kids every day, had a feeling the continuity and year to year development was going to be a big positive. Otherwise, they would have taken in more Transfers and Grad Transfers.
Basketball is a team sport. I believe our Coaches will have this team playing extremely well together.
Looking forward to a fast paced exciting squad that will do well in Big East action this season.
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Big Guards. Not necessarily tall, though some are, but weight room Big. All these guys have clearly put in some serious work off the court. Hopefully it translates!
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1565782552799055874?t=7JTSs033BHQNJ-tZSZn07g&s=19
Stevie looks like a strong safety.
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You need to be to wrestle with Big East guards.
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Big Guards. Not necessarily tall, though some are, but weight room Big. All these guys have clearly put in some serious work off the court. Hopefully it translates!
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1565782552799055874?t=7JTSs033BHQNJ-tZSZn07g&s=19
Stevie looking ready for the revival of the football team.
Nice to see Kam driving well and Kolek creating a mid range.
Sean is shifty af out there. His speed is gonna mess with a lot of defenders and help him capitalize when they are on their back foot.
...still no Omax hype video.
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Stevie looking ready for the revival of the football team.
Nice to see Kam driving well and Kolek creating a mid range.
Sean is shifty af out there. His speed is gonna mess with a lot of defenders and help him capitalize when they are on their back foot.
...still no Omax hype video.
OMax was seen on campus in a boot
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I truly don’t understand anyone who says the ceiling of this year’s team is the NIT, and those posts are in this thread.
While the NIT is certainly a possible outcome so is a single digit seed and winning a game or two in the big dance.
I have no idea what’s going to happen - with so many question marks the range of potential outcomes is pretty wide. That’s scary but also pretty exciting.
So in a year where there’s so much uncertainty I’m choosing to be optimistic unless and until the results on the court prove otherwise.
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I truly don’t understand anyone who says the ceiling of this year’s team is the NIT, and those posts are in this thread.
While the NIT is certainly a possible outcome so is a single digit seed and winning a game or two in the big dance.
I have no idea what’s going to happen - with so many question marks the range of potential outcomes is pretty wide. That’s scary but also pretty exciting.
So in a year where there’s so much uncertainty I’m choosing to be optimistic unless and until the results on the court prove otherwise.
Well said. As for your last paragraph … ditto.
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Big Guards. Not necessarily tall, though some are, but weight room Big. All these guys have clearly put in some serious work off the court. Hopefully it translates!
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1565782552799055874?t=7JTSs033BHQNJ-tZSZn07g&s=19
Who leaked that video of OMAX????
Our secret weapon is out of the bag.
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Big Guards. Not necessarily tall, though some are, but weight room Big. All these guys have clearly put in some serious work off the court. Hopefully it translates!
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1565782552799055874?t=7JTSs033BHQNJ-tZSZn07g&s=19
We will not know if they are weight room big until we see them matched up against other Big East guards.
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Love Kam’s attitude
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1564731515917029377?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Love Kam’s attitude
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1564731515917029377?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
This is a great promotion.
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This is a great promotion.
ABD
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Just say it COLE
The new official shirt of scoop.
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.... and all my words come back to me
in shades of mediocrity....
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The outlook for this season's team boils down to this. Is the continuity and year to year development going to be enough? If it is, this will be a fun year. The guards with 5-10 more lbs of muscle. Oso being 15 lbs stronger. Understanding the system and expectations. If, as Nevada said, that this team is going to play faster longer because of all of the offseason work.
If it works, watch out. If it didn't work, watch out in a different way.
What are you talking about? This is only year #2. . . wait to year 3 and 4 to increase expectations.
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I think this tram will surprise a lot of people by winning more games than last year. It will be faster with more steals and fast breaks.
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I think this tram will surprise a lot of people by winning more games than last year. It will be faster with more steals and fast breaks.
I'm going to board this tram.
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The tram came by and I got on….
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Toot toot!!!
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Hoo farted, hey?
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Pull my finger.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1569372919733620736?s=20&t=TyyNZxdBurWvNKKFjbegRA
Ben Gold hitting a catch and shoot 3.
Sean Jones with a step back 2 over Oso.
Who had a 'violent' block on Stevie.
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Great energy from Coach Haynes, positive but also holding guys accountable. Players really respond to that.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1569372919733620736?s=20&t=TyyNZxdBurWvNKKFjbegRA
Ben Gold hitting a catch and shoot 3.
Sean Jones with a step back 2 over Oso.
Who had a 'violent' block on Stevie.
Like the intensity. Think we will be really good defensively...big question mark will be if we can finish the defensive possession with the rebound.
Ben Gold is a very good prospect. Sean Jones will be electric and a contributor. I see a potential HAVOC style team that can go 10 deep and have very little drop off from the starting 5 to backup 5...
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I really hope we don't go 10 deep because that's a major weakness come March. Ideally maximize minutes for your 6-7 best players.
I do like our upside and think the extra year in the system will really help guys like Kolek, Oso, and O-Max. I think we'll be better than last year.
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I really hope we don't go 10 deep because that's a major weakness come March. Ideally maximize minutes for your 6-7 best players.
I do like our upside and think the extra year in the system will really help guys like Kolek, Oso, and O-Max. I think we'll be better than last year.
I agree with maximizing 7 players in a traditional strategy but doesn't that kind of go against this teams mantra and roster construction?
This roster has 12 guys who can play. Maybe it's because there is so much uncertainty surrounding this group, but it seems like they are built to play hard, rotate, rest on the bench and rotate again.
Everybody contributes kind of attitude. I could be wrong, but that seems to be how the roster is constructed and how they are going about things.
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I see 9 for sure getting minutes with Ross and Itejere maybe getting mop up minutes. If Ross surprises then 10 will play.
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I disagree. If we are going to be pressuring 94 for 40, I want to go 10 deep. I thought last year's team got worse as the bench shortened. Well, and as the freshmen hit their wall.
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I disagree. If we are going to be pressuring 94 for 40, I want to go 10 deep. I though last year's team got worse as the bench shortened. Well, and as the freshmen hit their wall.
That's kinda how I feel as well. As long as they close with some consistency I think they can get away with play 10 guys.
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1570520659197038593?s=21&t=NOihVBpRQ-hG4PZ_UyDkyA
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1570520659197038593?s=21&t=NOihVBpRQ-hG4PZ_UyDkyA
a quick recap.
chest bump
clap
high five
omax appearance?
clap
clap
high five
clap
Marquette
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I disagree. If we are going to be pressuring 94 for 40, I want to go 10 deep. I thought last year's team got worse as the bench shortened. Well, and as the freshmen hit their wall.
I doubt we will be pressuring like that.
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A boy can dream.
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I disagree. If we are going to be pressuring 94 for 40, I want to go 10 deep. I thought last year's team got worse as the bench shortened. Well, and as the freshmen hit their wall.
Unless you're counting deep bench minutes from Ellis and the walk-ons in early season blowouts, the bench didn't really shorten as the season went on.
Our first conference game against Xavier, we played 10 players, the bench logged 66 minutes. The end of the bench included 2 minutes for Joplin, 9 for OMP, and 8 for Mitchell.
In our final conference game against Creighton in the BET, the same 10 players logged minutes, with 71 for the bench. Among them: Stevie got 18 minutes, Joplin with 11, and three players with 14.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1572365111062568960?s=20&t=KbtQGXsKj7EAUpNy0C2uZg
Still yelling at Jop about defense.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1573054656254820353?s=20&t=22_3gQwGZ4Yell4FPdcIOQ
Stevie with a gun show.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1573054656254820353?s=20&t=22_3gQwGZ4Yell4FPdcIOQ
Stevie with a gun show.
2nd Amendment
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1573054656254820353?s=20&t=22_3gQwGZ4Yell4FPdcIOQ
Stevie with a gun show.
There seemed to be the starting 5.
Tyler, Stevie, Kam, OMax, Oso.
3 guard/2 athletic big lineup that Brew has suggested we will see a lot of.
Wrightsil, S Jones, Jop, C Ross, Gold, Keeyan off the bench.
Seems to make a lot of sense.
Start small, run fast, pester defensively and see what happens on the glass.
Wrightsil, hopefully a productive newcomer, first big off the bench- can be at the 4/5 positions depending on foul trouble or the need to play bigger, Omax slides to the 3.
Jop provides scoring off the bench.
S Jones and C Ross provide speed and freshman energy off the bench at G.
Ben spells the 4 or 5 depending on need.
Keeyan is your insurance at the 5.
If the above is accurate, it seems like a lot will ride on Kam and OMax offensively, with Stevie playing a massive roll on both ends.
Kolek becomes the most important player on the team imo, and his success or lack thereof will be a major determinant on how the season ends up.
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Kolek becomes the most important player on the team imo, and his success or lack thereof will be a major determinant on how the season ends up.
Kolek was nowhere near the best player last season, but he arguably was the most important. That sure could be the case again this season.
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There seemed to be the starting 5.
Tyler, Stevie, Kam, OMax, Oso.
3 guard/2 athletic big lineup that Brew has suggested we will see a lot of.
Wrightsil, S Jones, Jop, C Ross, Gold, Keeyan off the bench.
Seems to make a lot of sense.
Start small, run fast, pester defensively and see what happens on the glass.
Wrightsil, hopefully a productive newcomer, first big off the bench- can be at the 4/5 positions depending on foul trouble or the need to play bigger, Omax slides to the 3.
Jop provides scoring off the bench.
S Jones and C Ross provide speed and freshman energy off the bench at G.
Ben spells the 4 or 5 depending on need.
Keeyan is your insurance at the 5.
If the above is accurate, it seems like a lot will ride on Kam and OMax offensively, with Stevie playing a massive roll on both ends.
Kolek becomes the most important player on the team imo, and his success or lack thereof will be a major determinant on how the season ends up.
Just like I predicted earlier in the thread (Might have been a different thread).
They'll likely try not to overlap Jop and Kam because they both can score but lack in defense relative to the others.
Same with Wrightsil and Oso who share a similar skillset at different sizes. Likely see their minutes staggered from one another as well.
I absolutely love everything about Stevie. He's that guy that isn't blessed with great scoring ability, but he works his tail off and knows how to work for a bucket. Guys like Stevie are so important.
Also OMax looks incredible. In shape, still heading the press and the jumper looks silky!
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Just like I predicted earlier in the thread (Might have been a different thread).
They'll likely try not to overlap Jop and Kam because they both can score but lack in defense relative to the others.
Same with Wrightsil and Oso who share a similar skillset at different sizes. Likely see their minutes staggered from one another as well.
I absolutely love everything about Stevie. He's that guy that isn't blessed with great scoring ability, but he works his tail off and knows how to work for a bucket. Guys like Stevie are so important.
Also OMax looks incredible. In shape, still heading the press and the jumper looks silky!
Stevie was a bucket in HS. I think there is a lot more there than people are giving him credit for.
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Just like I predicted earlier in the thread (Might have been a different thread).
They'll likely try not to overlap Jop and Kam because they both can score but lack in defense relative to the others.
Same with Wrightsil and Oso who share a similar skillset at different sizes. Likely see their minutes staggered from one another as well.
I absolutely love everything about Stevie. He's that guy that isn't blessed with great scoring ability, but he works his tail off and knows how to work for a bucket. Guys like Stevie are so important.
Also OMax looks incredible. In shape, still heading the press and the jumper looks silky!
Why do you think OMax will be improved, but Kam and Jop won’t?
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Why do you think OMax will be improved, but Kam and Jop won’t?
I think they all will be improved, that's the goal anyways...
I just think they won't overlap Kam minutes with Jop minutes because of the defensive abilities. I still think they could and will be better.
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I think they all will be improved, that's the goal anyways...
I just think they won't overlap Kam minutes with Jop minutes because of the defensive abilities. I still think they could and will be better.
It seems to me that defense is often what improves the most from Freshmen to Sophomore year, since so many kids did not need to play much defense in high school. Both Kam and Joplin are athletic enough that I believe with the work they are putting in and having a year of college basketball under their belt, they will be much improved defensively and will be on the court together this season a fair amount.
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https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1573689396318146560?s=46&t=8bjhshUo24UAxys1LlR_vQ
Embedded moles = Shaka.
Shaka has said that publicly.
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https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1573689396318146560?s=46&t=8bjhshUo24UAxys1LlR_vQ
Embedded moles = Shaka.
Shaka has said that publicly.
I am the source
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I’m skeptical. I hope it works out.
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I’m skeptical. I hope it works out.
He kind of did it last year in the high post. I’d be happy with the ball in his hands in that position more often if he’s comfortable with two dribbles to the hoop, fake dribble hand off and ball reversal pass. Point forward is an exaggeration IMO.
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OK. Just be aware that Shaka has publicly said it is his plan. As part of sending out an invitation to any talented big that would like to have the ball in his hands and initiate offense.
I don't believe it is the base set. I do believe that there will be a regularly used set that gets the ball to Oso above the foul line and involves a lot of motion off the ball allowing him to make decisions and use his speed to take slower 5's to the rack. One caveat to this is that the 5 has to come out and guard him. If the big sags, will Oso have the coveted mid-range green light? Because for this to really work well, he is going to have to be a threat all of the way out to the 3 pt line.
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OK. Just be aware that Shaka has publicly said it is his plan. As part of sending out an invitation to any talented big that would like to have the ball in his hands and initiate offense.
I don't believe it is the base set. I do believe that there will be a regularly used set that gets the ball to Oso above the foul line and involves a lot of motion off the ball allowing him to make decisions and use his speed to take slower 5's to the rack. One caveat to this is that the 5 has to come out and guard him. If the big sags, will Oso have the coveted mid-range green light? Because for this to really work well, he is going to have to be a threat all of the way out to the 3 pt line.
Rothstien broke the news fyi
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Rothstien broke the news fyi
LOL not even remotely.
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OK. Just be aware that Shaka has publicly said it is his plan. As part of sending out an invitation to any talented big that would like to have the ball in his hands and initiate offense.
I don't believe it is the base set. I do believe that there will be a regularly used set that gets the ball to Oso above the foul line and involves a lot of motion off the ball allowing him to make decisions and use his speed to take slower 5's to the rack. One caveat to this is that the 5 has to come out and guard him. If the big sags, will Oso have the coveted mid-range green light? Because for this to really work well, he is going to have to be a threat all of the way out to the 3 pt line.
Agreed tower he needs to show a midrange and three point game this year for it to work.
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LOL not even remotely.
He has a well embedded mole
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He has a well embedded mole
Yep up his butt
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Yep up his butt
🤔
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Yep up his butt
He’s making a joke genius.
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He’s making a joke genius.
And I'm following
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I don't think Oso would have to shoot 3s to make it work. Like wades, I'm a bit "skeptical" because we haven't seen this be part of Shaka's offense yet -- let alone a dominant part of it. But Oso is pretty good with the ball, and he shot 70%+ on FTs, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do now that he's an experienced player in a more established program.
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13.6% usage guys jumping to a big player in the offense at the same school/level is RARE.
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https://youtu.be/-LEgDh_pMuo
1st in depth look of the new squad. OMax with a Laugh Out Loud offensive rebound and dunk just over halfway through.
This team has some dudes.
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https://youtu.be/-LEgDh_pMuo
1st in depth look of the new squad. OMax with a Laugh Out Loud offensive rebound and dunk just over halfway through.
This team has some dudes.
Ty!!
That was a solid first day. We may very well have some ballers. S. Jones has some quicks.
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Ty!!
That was a solid first day. We may very well have some ballers. S. Jones has some quicks.
Indeed he does. This team has speed and burst towards the rim. If they can hit shots and play defense they will go places.
The depth up front looks much more solid than I originally gave them credit for in my head.
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Indeed he does. This team has speed and burst towards the rim. If they can hit shots and play defense they will go places.
The depth up front looks much more solid than I originally gave them credit for in my head.
I'm still concerned about getting bullied inside. We must collectively rebound, push, and get buckets in transition.
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Ty!!
That was a solid first day. We may very well have some ballers. S. Jones has some quicks.
I heard the this team bucked a trend and actually handled the TBT team over the summer.
Sean Jones
Oso
Ben Gold
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I heard the this team bucked a trend and actually handled the TBT team over the summer.
Sean Jones
Oso
Ben Gold
One of Wojo's teams (Year 6 I think?) also handled the TBT team. This year I also believe that several players were missing from the TBT team including Jamil, DJO, and Mo.
All that being said, I've very excited about this year's team.
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One of Wojo's teams (Year 6 I think?) also handled the TBT team. This year I also believe that several players were missing from the TBT team including Jamil, DJO, and Mo.
All that being said, I've very excited about this year's team.
Yeah --- there definitely was a #mubb win over TBT in there. What I heard was #mubb went from deer on skates last year to domination this year. TBT competition may have somethig to do with that but from what I hear #mubb looked like players.
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I'm still concerned about getting bullied inside. We must collectively rebound, push, and get buckets in transition.
I don't think that's a concern for Shaka one bit.
He will have a mismatch just as much if not more with Oso on the other end if a team decides to throw a true 5 at him.
Not only that, but if a team runs their offense through a 5 on the block they arent going to be scoring as much as Marquette anticipates scoring with their fast paced style of play. Playing through a 5 on the block eliminates a lot of points. 3 is worth more than 2!
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TAMU
I am getting more excited by the day for the upcoming season. Last year I had hoped that my optimism would prove to be correct, this year I will be disappointed if my optimism proves to be off target. One a sidenote, aside from Kam Jones being one of my favorite players on the team, he has charisma and style off the court. I think he will prove to be one of the leaders on the squad this year.
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Based on that video, I am concerned about our defense. In every sequence either the offense scored initially, or gathered the rebound and scored.
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Based on that video, I am concerned about our defense. In every sequence either the offense scored initially, or gathered the rebound and scored.
It's almost like it was a hype video about the team doing half court drills...not a full insight into every play.
Personally I think we should have more hype videos of shot clock violations
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Yes, if the team shoots as well during the season as it does in these videos, it will be a great year. They shoot like Pleasantville in these videos.
IMO, the dream is to play 10 guys double digits, be as aggressive and athletic as possible, and right the hot hands at the end as the other teams wear down.
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Based on that video, I am concerned about our defense. In every sequence either the offense scored initially, or gathered the rebound and scored.
I'm not concerned about our defense.
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foul
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If Theo did it.
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I'm not concerned about our defense.
Nice! We need a relentless and merciless attacking style on both ends of the floor. At the end of the day we're gonna need buckets, but getting to the line is critical as well. When you're able to rim run and get into the paint good things happen. I like the Jones boys.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575165526539751428
Shaka slapping the floor, we are all doomed
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575165526539751428
Shaka slapping the floor, we are all doomed
No wonder we collapsed down the stretch last season.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575165526539751428
Shaka slapping the floor, we are all doomed
Al slapped players, not floors
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Al slapped players, not floors
Rick slapped towels
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575165526539751428
Shaka slapping the floor, we are all doomed
He is a known floor slapper...
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Closed door scrimmages set.
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Apparently home vs Loyola but the scrimmage in Chicago is against Missouri.
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You are correct and I am wrong. I will amend my post.
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I’ll find out if Mizzou has a fan event and give Shaka a scouting report ahead of time.
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I’ll find out if Mizzou has a fan event and give Shaka a scouting report ahead of time.
Thanks. Our seed depends on it.
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Thanks. Our seed depends on it.
How many + or - would you say?
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As long as no one goes all Michael Beasley....
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Thanks. Our seed depends on it.
Any sign of NateDogg? Has he been reincarnated?
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575599133716811776?s=20&t=hxEOmM3PR1gmm-R5jrMANw
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1575599133716811776?s=20&t=hxEOmM3PR1gmm-R5jrMANw
The freshman are getting a lot of screen time on these... aren't they?
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What’s better? Screamer or moaner?
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What’s better? Screamer or moaner?
Depends on how thick the walls are, aina?
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The freshman are getting a lot of screen time on these... aren't they?
I don't think people are ready for how good Sean Jones is going to be. We haven't seen a freshman like him since Dom or Travis. Buckle up.
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The Lens
I happen to agree with you on Sean Jones. I think he is going to turn a lot of heads quickly.
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I don't think people are ready for how good Sean Jones is going to be. We haven't seen a freshman like him since Dom or Travis. Buckle up.
Bingo
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I don't think people are ready for how good Sean Jones is going to be. We haven't seen a freshman like him since Dom or Travis. Buckle up.
That’s the kind of addition that accelerates rebuilds promotes program building. I hope you are right.
Can’t imagine if Tom Crean had not hit on the Dom, Wes, and Jerel recruiting class. It allowed us to immediately excel in the Big East. Especially Doms defense and athletic ability. If Sean is as good that would be spectacular.
Sean Jones could be the guard we need to build off of for the next four years and get back to being a top tier BE team.
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I don't think people are ready for how good Sean Jones is going to be. We haven't seen a freshman like him since Dom or Travis. Buckle up.
I've been talking about quicks/speed with the rock Lens for quite some time. I see these attributes in this young man. There's always a learning curve but I'm ready to buckle up!
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I think he will be fun. I am always reluctant to go all in on 5'10 freshmen. May he be the exception to the rule.
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I think he will be fun. I am always reluctant to go all in on 5'10 freshmen. May he be the exception to the rule.
You mean going full Mbakwe might not be the appropriate response for a player that has yet to log a D1 minute?
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Tis the season to get amped up about freshmen. He never misses a shot on those twitter videos. It is easy to forget he is 5'10. From a medium sized school in Ohio. Not a 5 star. Who has yet to play a second of D1 basketball. He looks good, Coach Smart is excited about him, and I really hope he excels. But I am not going to fall into the hype trap until I actually see him against D1 competition.
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I hope to get to one of the two practices, but Jones seems really comfortable playing fast. That gives him a head start in my mind.
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Tis the season to get amped up about freshmen. He never misses a shot on those twitter videos. It is easy to forget he is 5'10. From a medium sized school in Ohio. Not a 5 star. Who has yet to play a second of D1 basketball. He looks good, Coach Smart is excited about him, and I really hope he excels. But I am not going to fall into the hype trap until I actually see him against D1 competition.
You clearly hate Sean Jones for some reason.
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Must be late September…..
Shaka said Sean is the quickest player he has ever seen. He quickly added that Tyler is the starting PG.
I expect Tyler and Stevie to make a big jump this year. Anything from Sean would be fantastic.
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Tis the season to get amped up about freshmen. He never misses a shot on those twitter videos. It is easy to forget he is 5'10. From a medium sized school in Ohio. Not a 5 star. Who has yet to play a second of D1 basketball. He looks good, Coach Smart is excited about him, and I really hope he excels. But I am not going to fall into the hype trap until I actually see him against D1 competition.
Where do you get "medium sized high school"? 2,200 students and one of the 20 largest high schools in Ohio.
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Sean Jones will have fans out of their seats this upcoming season.
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Sean Jones will have fans out of their seats this upcoming season.
He’s so short that’s the only way they can see him!
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Sean Jones will have fans out of their seats this upcoming season.
Ha! Goose I hope your sources are right. Would love Dominic James part two and that would make us exponentially better as a team than we would be otherwise. Would love some tough elite on ball defense.
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Shooter
Book it.
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Shooter
Book it.
Love it! I’m excited to see this team. Too many good leaks not to be.
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Shooter
I agree on more and more positive leaks. We did not have that excitement going into last season. My expectations are much higher than a year ago.
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You clearly hate Sean Jones for some reason.
And Marquette, don't forget. tower is clearly anti-Marquette.
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He’s so short that’s the only way they can see him!
Unwarranted attack on the young man and our smaller citizens. Do not be surprised in the future when you wake up in Lillput.
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Sean Jones will have fans out of their seats this upcoming season.
Hopefully not on the way to the exits.
But seriously, I am on the Sean Jones bandwagon.
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I have heard and seen enough that I am very excited about Sean Jones. That being said, you can never be certain how practice will translate to games. My guess is that Mr. Jones will translate very well
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Unwarranted attack on the young man and our smaller citizens. Do not be surprised in the future when you wake up in Lillput.
Whoosh
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You clearly hate Sean Jones for some reason.
I appreciate the joke.
I don't hate any player who suits up for MU.
After too many years, I am simply off the freshman hype train.
I like all of the freshmen and think
A. They will all contribute this year.
B. None will start or play starter's minutes, barring injury.
C. All have the potential to start in the future.
Sean Jones? I enjoy what I see in the videos and am looking forward to seeing him play.
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I appreciate the joke.
I don't hate any player who suits up for MU.
After too many years, I am simply off the freshman hype train.
I like all of the freshmen and think
A. They will all contribute this year.
B. None will start or play starter's minutes, barring injury.
C. All have the potential to start in the future.
Sean Jones? I enjoy what I see in the videos and am looking forward to seeing him play.
Marquette is due for an unexpected frosh breakout. Don’t know if it’ll be Jones but early reports are promising. But like you said, he’s a frosh.
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TAMU
It is going to be a fun and exciting season. Shaka is building something here and I am going to enjoy every minute of it.
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Unwarranted attack on the young man and our smaller citizens. Do not be surprised in the future when you wake up in Lillput.
Apologize in advance for going off topic, but I had an interesting run in with a smaller citizen (a dwarf, actually) just yesterday.
Driving on the Kennedy in bumper to bumper traffic and (my bad) talking on the phone - so distracted, I rear end the car in front of me. We both pull over to the shoulder and get out of our cars. The dwarf approaches me and loudly says “I’M NOT HAPPY!” “So which one are you, then?”, I replied.
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Apologize in advance for going off topic, but I had an interesting run in with a smaller citizen (a dwarf, actually) just yesterday.
Driving on the Kennedy in bumper to bumper traffic and (my bad) talking on the phone - so distracted, I rear end the car in front of me. We both pull over to the shoulder and get out of our cars. The dwarf approaches me and loudly says “I’M NOT HAPPY!” “So which one are you, then?”, I replied.
This is good
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Tis the season to get amped up about freshmen. He never misses a shot on those twitter videos. It is easy to forget he is 5'10. From a medium sized school in Ohio. Not a 5 star. Who has yet to play a second of D1 basketball. He looks good, Coach Smart is excited about him, and I really hope he excels. But I am not going to fall into the hype trap until I actually see him against D1 competition.
lol. Pin this tweet. Thanks for playing.
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Lenny,
I always like getting an early morning laugh. Thank you.
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We haven’t had a difference maker guard since the 3 Amigos. Naturally this will take some getting used to. But as a former player who watched him told me: Sean Jones is the truth. Shaka has done what Wojo couldn’t, recruit program changing guards. Chico’s always told us it’s a guards game. Shaka listened. Thanks Shaka. Thanks Chico’s.
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The Lens
Big time guards are the name of the game. I have always loved that Pitino embracing the importance of a game changing PG and that is the foundation of a winning program, imo.
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We haven’t had a difference maker guard since the 3 Amigos. Naturally this will take some getting used to. But as a former player who watched him told me: Sean Jones is the truth. Shaka has done what Wojo couldn’t, recruit program changing guards. Chico’s always told us it’s a guards game. Shaka listened. Thanks Shaka. Thanks Chico’s.
Markus Howard wasn't a difference maker? DJO?
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Apologize in advance for going off topic, but I had an interesting run in with a smaller citizen (a dwarf, actually) just yesterday.
Driving on the Kennedy in bumper to bumper traffic and (my bad) talking on the phone - so distracted, I rear end the car in front of me. We both pull over to the shoulder and get out of our cars. The dwarf approaches me and loudly says “I’M NOT HAPPY!” “So which one are you, then?”, I replied.
Hilarious.
You may be unaware of the UDRF Lenny? The Underground Dwarf Rebel Force? They are not to be trifled with and have the uncanny ability to attack when you least expect it. There will be no warning and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Markus Howard wasn't a difference maker? DJO?
lol. Ol Score 50, give up 52.
What difference did he ever make other than run off Sam? I’ll scan the rafters for all his differences. lol.
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lol. Ol Score 50, give up 52.
What difference did he ever make other than run off Sam? I’ll scan the rafters for all his differences. lol.
What difference did Sam ever make other than not win a tournament game at either Marquette or Virginia? I’ll scan the rafters at both places for all his differences. lol
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What difference did Sam ever make other than not win a tournament game at either Marquette or Virginia? I’ll scan the rafters at both places for all his differences. lol
Rico the difference making forwards conversation is on…the…Dodds board…right now…stay focused.
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Markus was probably the worst player in Marquette history.
For one thing, he personally gave up more than 5,000 points during his time at MU, and was personally responsible for us never making the NCAA tournament during those 4 seasons.
An infamous cancer, he also "ran off" Sam, whose offensive prowess was so unleashed at Virginia that he went on to score a whole ppg more there (including his clutch 4-for-16 performance in leading Va to a first-round NCAAT loss to mighty Ohio). Not to mention that Markus "ran off" Joey, who has gone on to true greatness under Sparty's Hall of Fame coach.
No wonder not one other school wanted Markus. He was the pits.
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lol. Ol Score 50, give up 52.
What difference did he ever make other than run off Sam? I’ll scan the rafters for all his differences. lol.
Let me scan those rafters for all of the giant accomplishments the difference making three amigo guards achieved. I mean, they won just as many conference regular season and conference tourney titles as Markus did. But they did make incredible NCAA Tournament runs to the second round twice.
Makes sense.
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Markus was probably the worst player in Marquette history.
For one thing, he personally gave up more than 5,000 points during his time at MU, and was personally responsible for us never making the NCAA tournament during those 4 seasons.
An infamous cancer, he also "ran off" Sam, whose offensive prowess was so unleashed at Virginia that he went on to score a whole ppg more there (including his clutch 4-for-16 performance in leading Va to a first-round NCAAT loss to mighty Ohio). Not to mention that Markus "ran off" Joey, who has gone on to true greatness under Sparty's Hall of Fame coach.
No wonder not one other school wanted Markus. He was the pits.
Wow. A thread about 2022 #mubb hijacked by Markus. SMDH.
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Wow. A thread about 2022 #mubb hijacked by Markus. SMDH.
Or was it highjacked by:
We haven’t had a difference maker guard since the 3 Amigos.
Because, you know, neither DJO nor Vander nor Markus was a "difference maker."
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Or was it highjacked by:
Because, you know, neither DJO nor Vander nor Markus was a "difference maker."
DJO and Vander are great examples. My bad. The Wojo years wrecked me. I promise to be better.
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Sean Jones will have fans out of their seats this upcoming season.
Not me I like to sit
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DJO and Vander are great examples. My bad. The Wojo years wrecked me. I promise to be better.
You're ready to crown Sean Jones the next big thing, but can't even give any respect to MU's all-time leader scorer. Bizarre.
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You're ready to crown Sean Jones the next big thing, but can't even give any respect to MU's all-time leader scorer. Bizarre.
I give George Thompson all the respect in the world. 🐐🐐🐐
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Hilarious.
You may be unaware of the UDRF Lenny? The Underground Dwarf Rebel Force? They are not to be trifled with and have the uncanny ability to attack when you least expect it. There will be no warning and may God have mercy on your soul.
Muggsy
Until reading this I was unaware of the UDRF - thanks for the heads up! I’ll be relocating after I get my new identity and plastic surgery. Until then, I’m wearing shin guards, thigh pads and a cup everywhere I go!
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DJO and Vander are great examples. My bad. The Wojo years wrecked me. I promise to be better.
Thanks. With this comment you're about 2/3 of the way to being better.
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Muggsy
Until reading this I was unaware of the UDRF - thanks for the heads up! I’ll be relocating after I get my new identity and plastic surgery. Until then, I’m wearing shin guards, thigh pads and a cup everywhere I go!
Unfortunately Lenny, once the UDRF has a target, it's nearly impossible for them to show mercy or restraint. Modern protections are also useless as they possess an arsenal of medieval weapons, combined with futuristic dwarf stuff, that let's just say we do not want them to unleash. I have a few connections and will see what I can do but there are no guarantees. You are potentially dealing with relentless dwarf wrath and it could get ugly. :)
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Unfortunately Lenny, once the UDRF has a target, it's nearly impossible for them to show mercy or restraint. Modern protections are also useless as they possess an arsenal of medieval weapons, combined with futuristic dwarf stuff, that let's just say we do not want them to unleash. I have a few connections and will see what I can do but there are no guarantees. You are potentially dealing with relentless dwarf wrath and it could get ugly. :)
Thanks, Mugs!!
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The upgrade in overall athleticism on the MU roster under Shaka will pay dividends. Wojo's teams were skilled but ultimately not athletic enough to really be able to fully consistently compete/beat Top 20 caliber teams. One of my favorite Buzz Williams quotes was when he told his DJO team to "F with the Badgers by imposing their physicality and superior athleticism.)
Shaka has this the program on a good path. I think we are going to play a really fun brand of basketball this year, and in the future under Shaka. I'm optimistic that this season can potentially exceed last season's surprise performance. However, I won't lose enthusiasm over where this program is headed should this year not exceed last year's team (so long as it isn't a substantial dropoff from last year's results.)
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Hope the Mopes listen to Goose this year.
Shooter
Book it.
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I give George Thompson all the respect in the world. 🐐🐐🐐
That's fine. Doesn't hurt to appreciate the newer era's contributions to the program even if you prefer your favorites from 50 years ago.
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What difference did Sam ever make other than not win a tournament game at either Marquette or Virginia? I’ll scan the rafters at both places for all his differences. lol
Both Howard and Hauser were coached by a horse's ass, aina?
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Apologize in advance for going off topic, but I had an interesting run in with a smaller citizen (a dwarf, actually) just yesterday.
Driving on the Kennedy in bumper to bumper traffic and (my bad) talking on the phone - so distracted, I rear end the car in front of me. We both pull over to the shoulder and get out of our cars. The dwarf approaches me and loudly says “I’M NOT HAPPY!” “So which one are you, then?”, I replied.
I laughed.
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Wow. A thread about 2022 #mubb hijacked by Markus. SMDH.
No, hijacked by you bringing Markus into it, because the only reason to post something as ridiculous as you did was to troll someone else into calling out your obviously intentional disregard for Howard. You wanted someone like 82 to point it out so you could smugly (and inaccurately) give your "Score 50, give up 52" line.
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lol. Ol Score 50, give up 52.
What difference did he ever make other than run off Sam? I’ll scan the rafters for all his differences. lol.
Should I scan the rafters for the amigos’ accomplishments too? Because if that’s the standard we are using, they didn’t accomplish much either.
But that’s ridiculous. Much less ridiculous than claiming a consensus first team all American wasn’t a difference maker though.
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Both Howard and Hauser were coached by a horse's ass, aina?
Seems every coach Marquette has ever had is a horse's ass in your view.
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And they should all be fired. Just like every Brewer, Buck, and Packer.
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Seems every coach Marquette has ever had is a horse's ass in your view.
When you’re a bitter old man, it’s a way of life
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Seems every coach Marquette has ever had is a horse's ass in your view.
Nah, got my faves. But, Crean is a phony and rode the coattails of Wade. And, Woj doesn't know his ass from a pumpkin, hey?
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And they should all be fired. Just like every Brewer, Buck, and Packer.
Nah, just peddle the underachievers, aina?
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Nah, just peddle the underachievers, aina?
Damn Giannis. You were right - Bucks shoulda peddled his underachieving arse before the 2020-21 season. Bud, also. And the schmoes, too. They didn’t need anybody!
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Damn Giannis. You were right - Bucks shoulda peddled his underachieving arse before the 2020-21 season. Bud, also. And the schmoes, too. They didn’t need anybody!
Damn straight! Gotta purge da riff raff like bad gas on da ass, hey?
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Surprise player for us this year??
Joplin?
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He is expected to contribute and score. The only way he can 'surprise' is negatively.
If you mean 'which player will exceed expectations? ', that is tougher because the expectation bar is pretty high for most of the team. The two talked about the least seem to be Ross and Keeyan. So I will pick one of them.
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He is expected to contribute and score. The only way he can 'surprise' is negatively.
If you mean 'which player will exceed expectations? ', that is tougher because the expectation bar is pretty high for most of the team. The two talked about the least seem to be Ross and Keeyan. So I will pick one of them.
When will you pick?
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Surprise player for us this year??
Joplin?
Not to me.
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I think if there is going to be a surprise, it will be Ross or Keeyan. That is my answer.
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He is expected to contribute and score. The only way he can 'surprise' is negatively.
If you mean 'which player will exceed expectations? ', that is tougher because the expectation bar is pretty high for most of the team. The two talked about the least seem to be Ross and Keeyan. So I will pick one of them.
i mean if he goes out there and looks like hayward it would be a bit surprising no?
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The “surprise” questions is a very good one for a squad with so many unknowns.
As a fan base, it seems like we are all fairly bullish and have pretty high expectations for a squad picked to finish 8th/9th in the BE. That’s a good thing, until it isn’t…
I’ll dive in to my guesses as most likely “positive surprise” and “negative surprise,” since I’m bored and taking a break from my book.
Lets start with the possible negative surprise
Most likely candidates are probably the ones with the highest expectations.
OMax, TyKo, and Kam Jones would be the 3 that I put as the most likely here.
No idea who, if any of the above, will be a negative surprise this season.
If I had to wager I would go with Kolek or Kam simply because of the options at G compared to those at the 4/5 spots.
For every “negative surprise” there is usually a “positive surprise” that overtakes those minutes and moves the dude with higher expectations to more of a utility role. I can foresee a scenario where either Tyler or Kam struggle, whether offensively, defensively, or both, enough to be overtaken in minutes and importance by say someone like Sean Jones or Chase Ross.
FWIW, I did not include Oso because I think it would take quite a lot to go wrong for him to be a negative surprise. He will likely get a lot of minutes and the depth isn’t quite there to take those minutes- from what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like Keeyan is there yet.
Also FWIW, in a bubble my prediction for biggest “negative surprise” would be OMax, simply because I think his expectations kind of came out of nowhere.
I’ve mentioned before and I’ll say it again- I saw stardom from JLew very early in a way I still haven’t seen from OMax, before Lewis became what many think he would become.
I hope I’m missing it with Omax, but either way I think that he is a necessary piece that will have a harder time getting leapfrogged in the front court than the guards mentioned above.
On to the glass half full portion, and the possible “positive surprise”
I’ll start with the most likely candidates
Tyler Kolek, Kam Jones.
This is the type of season we’ve got ahead of us. These two, although they have considerable expectations in place, will also have the most opportunity to rise to “stardom.” TyKo and/or Kam can become a first team AllBE type of performer, and that alone would win the biggest positive surprise distinction.
Additional candidates
Wrightsil, Sean Jones, David Joplin, Stevie Mitchell.
Wrightsil is a big unknown, and he definitely knows how to play but no one really knows if it’ll translate. He can become a huge pleasant surprise if the game is in his grasp, especially because the front court need is there.
Sean is exciting, and good, so that one is obvious.
Jop can score with the best of them, and scoring gets the gals as they say. If he’s a bucket getter and top 3 scorer he will happily surprise us all.
Stevie just seems like the type of guy who can make a massive second year leap. He’s got all the intangibles, and the high school scoring background. Big year for him because he can either fall back into a role player mold (with more firepower to come at the 1-3 spots next season) or he can shoot up (literally and figuratively) to an irreplaceable guard.
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The “surprise” questions is a very good one for a squad with so many unknowns.
As a fan base, it seems like we are all fairly bullish and have pretty high expectations for a squad picked to finish 8th/9th in the BE. That’s a good thing, until it isn’t…
I’ll dive in to my guesses as most likely “positive surprise” and “negative surprise,” since I’m bored and taking a break from my book.
Lets start with the possible negative surprise
Most likely candidates are probably the ones with the highest expectations.
OMax, TyKo, and Kam Jones would be the 3 that I put as the most likely here.
No idea who, if any of the above, will be a negative surprise this season.
If I had to wager I would go with Kolek or Kam simply because of the options at G compared to those at the 4/5 spots.
For every “negative surprise” there is usually a “positive surprise” that overtakes those minutes and moves the dude with higher expectations to more of a utility role. I can foresee a scenario where either Tyler or Kam struggle, whether offensively, defensively, or both, enough to be overtaken in minutes and importance by say someone like Sean Jones or Chase Ross.
FWIW, I did not include Oso because I think it would take quite a lot to go wrong for him to be a negative surprise. He will likely get a lot of minutes and the depth isn’t quite there to take those minutes- from what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like Keeyan is there yet.
Also FWIW, in a bubble my prediction for biggest “negative surprise” would be OMax, simply because I think his expectations kind of came out of nowhere.
I’ve mentioned before and I’ll say it again- I saw stardom from JLew very early in a way I still haven’t seen from OMax, before Lewis became what many think he would become.
I hope I’m missing it with Omax, but either way I think that he is a necessary piece that will have a harder time getting leapfrogged in the front court than the guards mentioned above.
On to the glass half full portion, and the possible “positive surprise”
I’ll start with the most likely candidates
Tyler Kolek, Kam Jones.
This is the type of season we’ve got ahead of us. These two, although they have considerable expectations in place, will also have the most opportunity to rise to “stardom.” TyKo and/or Kam can become a first team AllBE type of performer, and that alone would win the biggest positive surprise distinction.
Additional candidates
Wrightsil, Sean Jones, David Joplin, Stevie Mitchell.
Wrightsil is a big unknown, and he definitely knows how to play but no one really knows if it’ll translate. He can become a huge pleasant surprise if the game is in his grasp, especially because the front court need is there.
Sean is exciting, and good, so that one is obvious.
Jop can score with the best of them, and scoring gets the gals as they say. If he’s a bucket getter and top 3 scorer he will happily surprise us all.
Stevie just seems like the type of guy who can make a massive second year leap. He’s got all the intangibles, and the high school scoring background. Big year for him because he can either fall back into a role player mold (with more firepower to come at the 1-3 spots next season) or he can shoot up (literally and figuratively) to an irreplaceable guard.
I'm wondering about the growth in Steve's offense. If he holds his own on that end he realistically will be on the floor a lot. How Shaka will use our guards and overall depth will be interesting. I would think we'll play 3 smalls quite a bit if Jones the Younger can be the conductor in transition. Speed and seeing the floor leads to hoops happiness in general.
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He is expected to contribute and score. The only way he can 'surprise' is negatively.
If you mean 'which player will exceed expectations? ', that is tougher because the expectation bar is pretty high for most of the team. The two talked about the least seem to be Ross and Keeyan. So I will pick one of them.
I don’t know. I’m still not ready to jump all-in on Joplin until I see him defend. If he came out and started being a solid defender and improved his passing, I’d be pleasantly surprised.
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I don’t know. I’m still not ready to jump all-in on Joplin until I see him defend. If he came out and started being a solid defender and improved his passing, I’d be pleasantly surprised.
Agree.
Some folks seem to be saying that if Joplin goes for 14 and 6 and defends well, it won't be a surprise. I'd be pretty damn pleasantly surprised by that!
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A 'surprise' for me would be if this team struggles to score. A 'surprise' for me would be if this team turned into rebounding terrors. A 'surprise' for me would be if we don't see obvious improvement from the returnees.
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Is there another Joplin I don't know about? Are we talking about the guy that averaged less than 3 ppg past year? Now I expect a jump from him the way I expect a jump from anyone going from a Freshman to a Sophomore, and I know that there's a Justin size hole to fill, but I just don't see a Justin size Freshman to Sophomore jump for him.
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Is there another Joplin I don't know about? Are we talking about the guy that averaged less than 3 ppg past year? Now I expect a jump from him the way I expect a jump from anyone going from a Freshman to a Sophomore, and I know that there's a Justin size hole to fill, but I just don't see a Justin size Freshman to Sophomore jump for him.
Different role with increased mpg leads me to believe he will be a significant player next season.
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I think we are only going to see marginal increases in minutes and production out of Joplin. Wrightsil is the one who will be taking the bulk of the minutes that were Lewis's last year.
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Different role with increased mpg leads me to believe he will be a significant player next season.
I hope you're right. I would be extremely happy with about 7 and 4 with improved ORtg and DRtg. I think Sultan's prediction is pretty spot on.
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I hope you're right. I would be extremely happy with about 7 and 4 with improved ORtg and DRtg. I think Sultan's prediction is pretty spot on.
He played a pinch hitter role last season. Very difficult for a scorer to come in and make a shot cold playing 5ish mins a game. His offense is more than ready for him to play big time minutes. My hope is for his d to improve and allow him to play a ton.
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I think we are only going to see marginal increases in minutes and production out of Joplin. Wrightsil is the one who will be taking the bulk of the minutes that were Lewis's last year.
Everything I’ve heard leads me to believe wrightsil is an undersized 5. He’ll see a lot of minutes spelling Oso as Keeyan isn’t close to ready for significant PT. Still think Joplin is first off the bench and will play a lot given his offensive versatility.
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Is there another Joplin I don't know about? Are we talking about the guy that averaged less than 3 ppg past year? Now I expect a jump from him the way I expect a jump from anyone going from a Freshman to a Sophomore, and I know that there's a Justin size hole to fill, but I just don't see a Justin size Freshman to Sophomore jump for him.
Look at a good KenPom comp — Daniel Utomi 2017 to 2018 seasons.
Key indicator is Jop had a 26% %Shots. Poor % from outside, but he’s not a 28.8% shooter. If that pops up into the mid 30s this year, he’ll put up some scoring numbers.
From Jan 5 to March 5, played in 15 games while never hitting double-digits.
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Hilarious.
You may be unaware of the UDRF Lenny? The Underground Dwarf Rebel Force? They are not to be trifled with and have the uncanny ability to attack when you least expect it. There will be no warning and may God have mercy on your soul.
Is that some form of Insane Clown Posse for little people?
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Is there another Joplin I don't know about? Are we talking about the guy that averaged less than 3 ppg past year? Now I expect a jump from him the way I expect a jump from anyone going from a Freshman to a Sophomore, and I know that there's a Justin size hole to fill, but I just don't see a Justin size Freshman to Sophomore jump for him.
From a usage perspective, Joplin would project to a pretty comfortable 14+ ppg guy if he was getting 25-30 mpg. That said, I don't expect him to get that many minutes.
Justin's scoring jump made sense because he only needed a slight usage jump considering he doubled his minutes. Joplin would need to roughly quadruple his minutes to match Justin, but if he did play that much he'd score a lot.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1576981735006511105?t=w-Z1SzAp5qvslMp80eSGYw&s=19
5 dribbles. 6 passes. Ending with a 6'11" forward/center drilling a 3.
Could be some awesome mismatches to exploit this year.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1576981735006511105?t=w-Z1SzAp5qvslMp80eSGYw&s=19
5 dribbles. 6 passes. Ending with a 6'11" forward/center drilling a 3.
Could be some awesome mismatches to exploit this year.
Interesting lineup there: Wrightsill, Kolek, Sean Jones, Kam Jones, Gold. (Which probably puts the opposition as: OMax, Oso, Joplin, Ross, Stevie.)
The lineup possibilities for this team are diverse. One reason I feel we could/may play Havoc type of defense is that there likely is little drop off in the 6 through 10 players.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1576981735006511105?t=w-Z1SzAp5qvslMp80eSGYw&s=19
5 dribbles. 6 passes. Ending with a 6'11" forward/center drilling a 3.
Could be some awesome mismatches to exploit this year.
Heard it was staged and took 17 takes.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1576981735006511105?t=w-Z1SzAp5qvslMp80eSGYw&s=19
5 dribbles. 6 passes. Ending with a 6'11" forward/center drilling a 3.
Could be some awesome mismatches to exploit this year.
That said, easier to exploit mismatches when playing 5-on-4 (which they are in the video).
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That said, easier to exploit mismatches when playing 5-on-4 (which they are in the video).
Its a defensive drill the defense in it is fine. The offense is better.
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That said, easier to exploit mismatches when playing 5-on-4 (which they are in the video).
No wonder it looked like a Wojo defense.
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That said, easier to exploit mismatches when playing 5-on-4 (which they are in the video).
5 on 4 disadvantage or 5 on 4 scramble is one of the most valuable defensive drills there is. Love seeing defense prioritized.
Doesn't change the fact that Ben Gold at 6'11" is going to be a major matchup nightmare for some. Especially with his counterpart being a ball handler of sorts. Oso/Gold tag team could be lethal.
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Is that some form of Insane Clown Posse for little people?
I would tread lightly S-Billy. They may appear rarely like cicadas but they're omnipresent and vindictive. :)
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1576981735006511105?t=w-Z1SzAp5qvslMp80eSGYw&s=19
5 dribbles. 6 passes. Ending with a 6'11" forward/center drilling a 3.
Could be some awesome mismatches to exploit this year.
Uh.....BAM?? This could be an enormous plus if he's productive as a stretch 5 out of the gates.
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Gold will dominate when opponents pull out the old four-defender defense.
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Gold will dominate when opponents pull out the old four-defender defense.
He's going to psyche out opponents Big Time with some of those facial expressions from the Maori pre game performance that he learned with the NZ national team.
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5 on 4 disadvantage or 5 on 4 scramble is one of the most valuable defensive drills there is. Love seeing defense prioritized.
Doesn't change the fact that Ben Gold at 6'11" is going to be a major matchup nightmare for some. Especially with his counterpart being a ball handler of sorts. Oso/Gold tag team could be lethal.
Not saying the drills aren't valuable, nor that Gold can't present matchup problems, but putting context to the offense in this clip.
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https://twitter.com/CoachShakaSmart/status/1577341119863611395
Still room on the Oso hype train
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https://twitter.com/CoachShakaSmart/status/1577341119863611395
Still room on the Oso hype train
Domino of the week - sounds like something Joey would have won a lot.
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Domino of the week - sounds like something Joey would have won a lot.
They don't have an essay portion any longer.
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Domino of the week - sounds like something Joey would have won a lot.
I believe that’s the Brad Davison Award in Madison, but given out for different reasons.
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Domino of the week - sounds like something Joey would have won a lot.
After where the Brad punched him.....
Slats Domino?
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Domino of the week - sounds like something Joey would have won a lot.
Just because he falls down a lot doesn’t necessarily make him a good domino, per se
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ESPN's Bracketology doesn't have much of an outlook for this team. Not mentioned as even on the bubble.
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Mopes should just have the season cancelled.
ESPN's Bracketology doesn't have much of an outlook for this team. Not mentioned as even on the bubble.
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ESPN's Bracketology doesn't have much of an outlook for this team. Not mentioned as even on the bubble.
I don't believe we were mentioned last year either.
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I understand why, on paper, people don't expect this team to be good.
Personally, I think the roster is a lot stronger on paper now than it was at this time last season. That makes me optimistic that this year's team will be better than last year's team. The impact a coach has on a roster is hard to project when you are a neutral party looking at dozens of teams at the same time. I think unlike our most recent former coach, our current coach usually makes teams better than the sum of their parts, hence the optimism.
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I understand why, on paper, people don't expect this team to be good.
Personally, I think the roster is a lot stronger on paper now than it was at this time last season. That makes me optimistic that this year's team will be better than last year's team. The impact a coach has on a roster is hard to project when you are a neutral party looking at dozens of teams at the same time. I think unlike our most recent former coach, our current coach usually makes teams better than the sum of their parts, hence the optimism.
Agreed. Can we knock down the triple with consistency? I'm really hoping Kolek can find his J. I think the sum of our parts is potentially better than last year. I'll just leave it at that.
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Agreed. Can we knock down the triple with consistency? I'm really hoping Kolek can find his J. I think the sum of our parts is potentially better than last year. I'll just leave it at that.
Can the defense not take a dump on the court later in the season?
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Can the defense not take a dump on the court later in the season?
Fair point for sure.
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I understand why, on paper, people don't expect this team to be good.
Personally, I think the roster is a lot stronger on paper now than it was at this time last season. That makes me optimistic that this year's team will be better than last year's team. The impact a coach has on a roster is hard to project when you are a neutral party looking at dozens of teams at the same time. I think unlike our most recent former coach, our current coach usually makes teams better than the sum of their parts, hence the optimism.
What makes you think this? What are you seeing that makes you like this team vs last years? (honest question)
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Easy, 10 players who could start.
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Easy, 10 players who could start.
I don’t think that’s a great situation. Tons of question marks.
Could be fine in the end, but there are so many options because this roster has so many question marks.
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BC
I am loving your optimism on this upcoming year. You know your stuff and I agree with you and TAMU. They are well ahead of where they were a year ago and they are going to be fun to watch.
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Can the defense not take a dump on the court later in the season?
We love this idea!
Sincerely,
Fiserv Forum clean-up crew
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BC
I am loving your optimism on this upcoming year. You know your stuff and I agree with you and TAMU. They are well ahead of where they were a year ago and they are going to be fun to watch.
Talent is there, let’s see if Shaka can figure out how to incorporate a solid 8 man rotation.
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To much talent is a Moper’s delight….
I don’t think that’s a great situation. Tons of question marks.
Could be fine in the end, but there are so many options because this roster has so many question marks.
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To much talent is a Moper’s delight….
Mockers
of
pedantic
excrement?
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Justin's value can be replaced, but I don't know that Darryl's can this year. Veteran leader on both ends of the court that took games over at times offensively.
I love this roster but think we are a year or 2 away from making any noise. I'd love to be wrong but I still think it is more likely that this team misses the NIT than getting an NCAA Bid.
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Justin's value can be replaced, but I don't know that Darryl's can this year. Veteran leader on both ends of the court that took games over at times offensively.
Morsell had a tone-setting, take-over-games stretch to start the season and also finished fairly strongly, with big games against Creighton and St. John's. But during the 21-game stretch from Nov. 19 to Feb. 16, Morsell averaged 10.7 points on .393 shooting (.309 from 3). He had about as many turnovers as assists, and he was getting to the line only twice a game. As a result, Shaka benched him several times.
In other words, for the majority of the season, he was the guy who averaged 9 ppg over 4 seasons at Maryland.
But yes, he occasionally could take over games and he was a good defender, so it will be interesting to see which players emerge with those skills.
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Justin's value can be replaced, but I don't know that Darryl's can this year. Veteran leader on both ends of the court that took games over at times offensively.
I love this roster but think we are a year or 2 away from making any noise. I'd love to be wrong but I still think it is more likely that this team misses the NIT than getting an NCAA Bid.
Justin shot 34% from 3's last year, that can be replaced, better, not sure but equally as good yes. His D was average, rebounding at times was very good, also, at
times non-existant. MU will be quicker with him not on the court. They can replace his scoring, if somebody steps up and is a leader. Your right, very young team,
but Oso, Kolek, and OMAX have been around in college for 3 years, add Wrightsil who is a senior, so they do have some age. Can the freshman make a difference,
time will tell. I have seen Gold play, he can play.
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Justin's value can be replaced, but I don't know that Darryl's can this year. Veteran leader on both ends of the court that took games over at times offensively.
I love this roster but think we are a year or 2 away from making any noise. I'd love to be wrong but I still think it is more likely that this team misses the NIT than getting an NCAA Bid.
Jan 26 on… Morsell… 88 ORtg on 26% usage. 21% to rate. 26% from deep. Only 20% ft rate
Crown him if u must
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Jan 26 on… Morsell… 88 ORtg on 26% usage. 21% to rate. 26% from deep. Only 20% ft rate
Crown him if u must
Morsell could get into the lane and get his own shot. Not sure Kam can but he will score as well as Morsell. The big question I have can Sean Jones D it up
enough to play against taller Big East guards, otherwise Chase Ross who has size will have to. I can see Ross and Jones in to play D at times. Lots of moving
parts this year, that is why I think they will be better.
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Historically speaking, true Freshman are pretty rarely called upon to "D it up". If we're looking for a bigger guard, I would think Ellis would be ahead of Ross in the depth chart.
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Historically speaking, true Freshman are pretty rarely called upon to "D it up". If we're looking for a bigger guard, I would think Ellis would be ahead of Ross in the depth chart.
Ellis might not even play this year, he will be way behind when he comes back from injury. I think he redshirts.
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Ellis might not even play this year, he will be way behind when he comes back from injury. I think he redshirts.
Doh, forgot about his injury. Still think we'd be in trouble if we get to a point where both Ross and Jones are playing significant minutes, unless they break the trend of the vast majority of Freshman.
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Wasn’t Mitchell called upon to play D as a true freshman just last year?
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He did and he did it well. And when Kam quit hitting 3's, Stevie's minutes increased.
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"Called upon" to be 9th in minutes?
We had 4 Freshman last year, one cracked the top 8 in minutes. Even if Ellis redshirts, I would expect all 6 returning players to be ahead of all of the Freshman, I would expect Wrightsil to be ahead of all of the Freshman. Of the Freshman, I would think Keeyan gets the most minutes, both because it's a position of need (we can't go only Oso or smallball), and because he's been in the system a full year.
The thing that seems to be the case most year for Freshman is that we remember the good moments, and mostly forget about the bad. Stevie had a great game againt Butler last year, arguably the biggest reason we won, but he also put up a lot of goose eggs in single digit minutes during our winning streak.
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I'd expect Sean Jones to play a ton, and Chase Ross to play not much at all.
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Of the Freshman, I would think Keeyan gets the most minutes, both because it's a position of need (we can't go only Oso or smallball), and because he's been in the system a full year.
Wat
For me, anything from Keeyan outside of a couple highlight reel dunks & blocks is crazy. Not banking on anything.
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Wat
For me, anything from Keeyan outside of a couple highlight reel dunks & blocks is crazy. Not banking on anything.
So you're predicting that our two options at C are Oso and small ball?
Last year when we had Justin to be the small ball C (better than anyone we currently have IMO), we didn't really use it that much. Kur 19 mpg, Oso 18 mpg. Even if Oso makes a significant jump we're still gonna need something from Keeyan.
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I think Oso's minutes will usually be in the high 20's. Injury and foul trouble being wild cards. For the sake of argument, 12 minutes are going to be needed at the 5. I think it will be a mix and match combo of Keeyan, Wrightsil, Gold, Omax. Can definitely see some Wrightsil, Omax, Joplin sets. Only having 5 guards for the foreseeable future, IMO, cuts down on the opportunities for 3 guard sets.
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JayBee
I agree on Keeyan. I am hoping for a few highlight reel plays and anything beyond that will be bonus.
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https://youtu.be/BBuwKLiHi_M
Really like the Field of 68 guys. They do a lengthy BIG East preview with almost no mention of Marquette. They do bold predictions at the end and T.O. says Kam Jones will lead the BIG East in scoring.
Overall the team itself seems to be sliding under the radar which could be good.
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ESPN's Bracketology doesn't have much of an outlook for this team. Not mentioned as even on the bubble.
Lamestream Media getting in on the COLE.
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https://youtu.be/BBuwKLiHi_M
Really like the Field of 68 guys. They do a lengthy BIG East preview with almost no mention of Marquette. They do bold predictions at the end and T.O. says Kam Jones will lead the BIG East in scoring.
Overall the team itself seems to be sliding under the radar which could be good.
They usually are great. But they usually catch on to us later on in the season. It's pretty hard to project a team that lost some big pieces and will rely on others to step into bigger roles. Guess the team will have to play the games to prove they deserve being in the convo ;D
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JayBee
I agree on Keeyan. I am hoping for a few highlight reel plays and anything beyond that will be bonus.
I have zero expectations for Keeyan.
Of course, a year ago at this time a year ago lots of us (including me) said the same about Oso.
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I have zero expectations for Keeyan.
Of course, a year ago at this time a year ago lots of us (including me) said the same about Oso.
He stinks
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Well, yeah, probably after a rigorous workout.
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Prediction: The best moment of the season will be when Sean Jones catches a body on a dunk. 100%
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Prediction: The best moment of the season will be when Sean Jones catches a body on a dunk. 100%
I’m thinking it’ll be when we make it to the second weekend (which is a lock) but maybe he’ll bodybag someone to get there
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can he even dunk.
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can he even dunk.
No, he has no legs
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can he even dunk.
Ners should know
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFpgRPrh-lY
What does Shaka think?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFpgRPrh-lY
What does Shaka think?
Already making excuses for shooting backgrounds
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Mention of Sean Jones dad being from Milwaukee so he's got a lot of family in the area.
That's something I was unaware of. Pretty cool!
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Stevie's offense is going to be another key for us imo. He is an excellent on the ball defender and strong enough to guard all perimeter positions. If he can keep the defense honest, and knock down open shots, he will be on the floor heavy mins. Between O-Max, ZW, and Stevie we need 2 of 3 to be highly productive on both ends of the floor.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1579975173583048705?t=uGmRO1TGHlnFUyCPO3ko0g&s=19
Vicious!
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1579975173583048705?t=uGmRO1TGHlnFUyCPO3ko0g&s=19
Vicious!
Violence!
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Nah, the Mopes have already told us to not expect much out of OMax this year.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1579975173583048705?t=uGmRO1TGHlnFUyCPO3ko0g&s=19
Vicious!
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On the other end are those (raises hand) who think he could have a breakout season and have more upside than JL. As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
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On the other end are those (raises hand) who think he could have a breakout season and have more upside than JL. As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Defensively perhaps, but JL was a 24% usage guy as a true frosh & 26% (w/29% %shots) last season.
As a true frosh, OMax has an 18% usage & last season just 16%.
I don’t see it
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I understand your perspective. Morsell and Lewis took a whole bunch of minutes and a whole bunch of usage with them. The shots have to come from somewhere. I think OMax's will get a fair amount of them.
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On the other end are those (raises hand) who think he could have a breakout season and have more upside than JL. As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I was told no one was allowed to have expectations. But I am in agreement with you that I think he's a strong breakout candidate. The energy level on defense is a game changer and hopefully he channel that into confidence on the offensive end, we could be in for a treat.
But on the other hand, COLE.
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I said it over the summer and I’ll say it again. I don’t know what people see in Omax. He’s a good role player but we’re F’ed if he’s our go to guy, and I think we’re a second weekend team
Kam and Jop will average more than him and I’ll take Jop’s offense over Omax’s mystery shutdown D that people see
PS- Kolek is by far the most important player on the team and I don’t think it’s close
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I said it over the summer and I’ll say it again. I don’t know what people see in Omax. He’s a good role player but we’re F’ed if he’s our go to guy, and I think we’re a second weekend team
Kam and Jop will average more than him and I’ll take Jop’s offense over Omax’s mystery shutdown D that people see
PS- Kolek is by far the most important player on the team and I don’t think it’s close
Omax is the proverbial baseball “5 tool player without the belt”. He has all the skills to put it together but we’ve only seen small flashes so far. Hopefully it happens this year, but I agree. I’m more bullish on some other returning players than Prosper.
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Defensively perhaps, but JL was a 24% usage guy as a true frosh & 26% (w/29% %shots) last season.
As a true frosh, OMax has an 18% usage & last season just 16%.
I don’t see it
I don't think you need a high usage guy to win.
OMax can replace Justin and maybe then some in skill, but the usage will be spread out amongst the whole crew rather than 1 guy. Could be beneficial for the team in the long run.
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I said it over the summer and I’ll say it again. I don’t know what people see in Omax. He’s a good role player but we’re F’ed if he’s our go to guy, and I think we’re a second weekend team
Kam and Jop will average more than him and I’ll take Jop’s offense over Omax’s mystery shutdown D that people see
PS- Kolek is by far the most important player on the team and I don’t think it’s close
I agree with this analysis. I hope he has a breakout year but I’m not seeing what others are. I think we’ll see incremental improvement year over year from him. If he breaks out and improves exponentially like others are guessing, this could be a great year.
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Why are some people hyping Joplin so much? Last year, he was a poor defender, a non-factor on the glass, didn't get many assists, and shot poorly from 3.
I think Joplin has a chance to be a helpful bench scorer but I'm not exactly counting on it.
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I said it over the summer and I’ll say it again. I don’t know what people see in Omax.
I guess you need to ask Shaka. He clearly sees something in O-Max, and he's the only one who really matters.
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Why are some people hyping Joplin so much? Last year, he was a poor defender, a non-factor on the glass, didn't get many assists, and shot poorly from 3.
I think Joplin has a chance to be a helpful bench scorer but I'm not exactly counting on it.
Really all our players have question marks. I’m not sure there is one player where anyone can guarantee the necessary leap in production to take us to the next level (a one win NCAA team) or even to be as good as last year.
Everyone is guessing and hoping which players will be good and make the jump. There are no ultra obvious candidates that will improve enough to make a difference. Only candidates that we need/want/hope to improve. All the players on our team have offensive or defensive deficiencies. No one is a well rounded player at this point.
Maybe Shaka is the difference and it all comes together for one or two or several players this year.
I don’t think we know yet. There are no 3 amigos, deniers, novaks, wades, crowders, butlers, haywards, hausers, howards, blues, etc returning that make me truly optimistic about this year.
If anything, I agree with those who think we are one more year away from making any noise in the dance and possibly don’t even make the dance this year.
Badly want to be wrong. Newsy and Unc, I will preemptively say COLE.
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Why are some people hyping Joplin so much? Last year, he was a poor defender, a non-factor on the glass, didn't get many assists, and shot poorly from 3.
I think Joplin has a chance to be a helpful bench scorer but I'm not exactly counting on it.
Top 100 recruit - very good multi level scorer in high school and aau. Showed flashes in very limited minutes last year.
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Shooter, I stay COLE that way no matter what I'm not disappointed. Better than being a mope
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To anyone who has questions about this team, fair enough.
But we were in the same position last year and it worked out well.
I trust process, and particularly the process Shaka is building. Last year midway through the season (in Shaka's 1st season!!!) Marquette was being talked about as a Final Four contender. I truly think only better things are to come.
https://youtu.be/eOzrOdgAKBE
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To anyone who has questions about this team, fair enough.
But we were in the same position last year and it worked out well.
I trust process, and particularly the process Shaka is building. Last year midway through the season (in Shaka's 1st season!!!) Marquette was being talked about as a Final Four contender. I truly think only better things are to come.
https://youtu.be/eOzrOdgAKBE
"This is why Marquette is the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four | Field of 68"
That aged well.
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Really all our players have question marks. I’m not sure there is one player where anyone can guarantee the necessary leap in production to take us to the next level (a one win NCAA team) or even to be as good as last year.
Everyone is guessing and hoping which players will be good and make the jump. There are no ultra obvious candidates that will improve enough to make a difference. Only candidates that we need/want/hope to improve. All the players on our team have offensive or defensive deficiencies. No one is a well rounded player at this point.
Maybe Shaka is the difference and it all comes together for one or two or several players this year.
I don’t think we know yet. There are no 3 amigos, deniers, novaks, wades, crowders, butlers, haywards, hausers, howards, blues, etc returning that make me truly optimistic about this year.
If anything, I agree with those who think we are one more year away from making any noise in the dance and possibly don’t even make the dance this year.
Badly want to be wrong. Newsy and Unc, I will preemptively say COLE.
I agree, there are a ton of questions with this team. I wouldn't be surprised with anything from a .500 record to a 10 seed. And a lot has to go right just to get a tourney bid!
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Right now, we are arguing about who we think steps up. Nothing but opinions and guesses at this point. We will know in a few weeks. And somebody has to or it will be a long season.
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"This is why Marquette is the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four | Field of 68"
That aged well.
It did.
They never said they would make it, just that they were built to. And with an entirely new roster. New coaches, new players, new everything.
Give the program time to develop that culture and process and who knows where we can get to.
Regardless it is fun to be excited about this program again.
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It did.
They never said they would make it, just that they were built to. And with an entirely new roster. New coaches, new players, new everything.
Give the program time to develop that culture and process and who knows where we can get to.
Regardless it is fun to be excited about this program again.
Yeah...it couldn't have aged worse. "This is why Marquette is the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four | Field of 68." We lost by 30 in the first round, AND Villanova (not Marquette, the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four) went to the Final Four.
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That 9-1 stretch drew a lot of attention. Just like the 20-2 stretch a few years earlier.
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Yeah...it couldn't have aged worse. "This is why Marquette is the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four | Field of 68." We lost by 30 in the first round, AND Villanova (not Marquette, the ONE TEAM from the Big East that can make the Final Four) went to the Final Four.
*Lost to the National Champion runner up*
Alternate Angle: Marquette finished 2-1 against Final Four teams last year.
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Top 100 recruit - very good multi level scorer in high school and aau. Showed flashes in very limited minutes last year.
What flashes? A few games where he made 2 shots in 5 minutes instead of his usual 0 makes?
The best glimmer of hope for Joplin is that he supposedly shot well in practice last year. His shot looks good in the few clips I've seen online. But he really feels like this year's Dexter Akanno as a player with outsized expectations that just jive with me.
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*Lost to the National Champion runner up*
Alternate Angle: Marquette finished 2-1 against Final Four teams last year.
Right. They claimed only one team in the Big East could make a Final Four. Turned out, one of the Big East teams that wasn't Marquette was the team to make the Final Four.
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What flashes? A few games where he made 2 shots in 5 minutes instead of his usual 0 makes?
The best glimmer of hope for Joplin is that he supposedly shot well in practice last year. His shot looks good in the few clips I've seen online. But he really feels like this year's Dexter Akanno as a player with outsized expectations that just jive with me.
I don’t think Joplin looked completely lost and incapable on the court like Dexter did when he briefly got into games. I do get your point about Joplins lack of minutes last year and that it is not enough of a sample size to make any strong predictions of greatness.
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I do not think we saw enough of Joplin last season to make any judgement calls. I heard that he has been looking good thus far and let's see what he brings to the court this season.
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What flashes? A few games where he made 2 shots in 5 minutes instead of his usual 0 makes?
The best glimmer of hope for Joplin is that he supposedly shot well in practice last year. His shot looks good in the few clips I've seen online. But he really feels like this year's Dexter Akanno as a player with outsized expectations that just jive with me.
You’re extremely misguided comparing Dexter Akanno to Joplin. He proved himself a comfortable/confident shooter in extremely limited minutes last year, playing behind an nba player in Lewis.
As I explained succinctly in my first post but I’ll expound on here - I loved his game in aau and high school. Great outside shooter off the dribble and spot up. Can score from the midrange and is a good enough ball handler to use ball/shot fake to take bigger guys off the bounce.
I understand fans questioning my prediction without seeing him play before coming to MU, but making a snap judgement on a freshman playing limited minutes spelling a first team BE nba level talent is short sighted.
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I'm not making a snap judgement. I am making no judgement until he shows us.
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To be fair too, Joplin and Justin were not the only Forwards on the team last year. Joplin was well behind O-Max as well. Assuming that a lot of Justin's minutes will fall to Wrightsil, and O-Max may also see a jump too, I think it's fair to say that Joplin is going to have to earn everything he gets this year.
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To be fair too, Joplin and Justin were not the only Forwards on the team last year. Joplin was well behind O-Max as well. Assuming that a lot of Justin's minutes will fall to Wrightsil, and O-Max may also see a jump too, I think it's fair to say that Joplin is going to have to earn everything he gets this year.
Personal opinion without any inside info, but I see Wrightsil backing up oso in a similar ish time share as we saw last year between kur and oso. Also think Joplin sees more time as he’ll see mins at both forward spots.
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Personal opinion without any inside info, but I see Wrightsil backing up oso in a similar ish time share as we saw last year between kur and oso. Also think Joplin sees more time as he’ll see mins at both forward spots.
The obvious difference being that Kur and Oso are 6-10 and 6-9 respectively while Wrightsil is 6-7.
I think Joplin will have improved from last year. I don't think he will have improved enough to warrant starting. I think he will have games where he deserves and receives 25 minutes. I think he will have games where he deserves and received less than 10 minutes. Such is the life of a young player in high major ball.
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The obvious difference being that Kur and Oso are 6-10 and 6-9 respectively while Wrightsil is 6-7.
I think Joplin will have improved from last year. I don't think he will have improved enough to warrant starting. I think he will have games where he deserves and receives 25 minutes. I think he will have games where he deserves and received less than 10 minutes. Such is the life of a young player in high major ball.
Who backs up oso ?
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Keeyan.
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The little bit ive heard Shaka talk about Jop (and this is totally just my interpretation) I have gotten a sense hes a big part of the rotation. Not saying starter at any point but I think hes being expected to contribute a lot.
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Keeyan.
Even if its 7-10 mpg. Keeyan backs up oso. Wrightsil can play a 4 minute section of some small ball with 2 other forwards on the court. Run a little 3-2 zone.
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I think the top 7 are the returnees plus Wrightsil. I expect them all to contribute and probably combine for 160-170 minutes. The big issues are going to be 8-10. My biggest concern is back up 5 and rebounding. Will it be Keeyan or Gold? Which freshman guard is the 4th guard?
I expect Joplin to have some big games. I expect OMax and Oso to make big strides forward.
I do not expect as many 3 guard sets this year as last year. Some, sure, but fewer.
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Keeyan is nowhere near ready for real minutes on the high major level.
In spelling oso, I think we see a lineup with a combination of either of these players at 5/4/3 spot Wrightsil/Omax/Gold/Joplin.
That will allow for more length while not playing with a traditional big guy.
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I think the top 7 are the returnees plus Wrightsil. I expect them all to contribute and probably combine for 160-170 minutes. The big issues are going to be 8-10. My biggest concern is back up 5 and rebounding. Will it be Keeyan or Gold? Which freshman guard is the 4th guard?
I expect Joplin to have some big games. I expect OMax and Oso to make big strides forward.
I do not expect as many 3 guard sets this year as last year. Some, sure, but fewer.
It will be interesting because we don't really have enough guards to play 3 guard sets, yet I think we're going to need to play small at times and we don't really have a ton of forwards to rotate through either. I think we start a 3 guard lineup.
Last year we had a "5" on the floor every minute of the game. This year you won't have that. I don't think Gold, Itajere, or Chase get many minutes, and Ellis is obviously out with an injury. That leaves you an 8 man rotation of 4 guards (Kam, Stevie, Kolek, Sean), 3 forwards (Wrightsil, OMax, Joplin), and a 5 (Oso). Lot of guys we know can play one end of the court, but not sure about the other end of the court. Not sure I see the great depth some seem to think we have. Lot of "ifs" that need to go right.
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Keeyan is nowhere near ready for real minutes on the high major level.
In spelling oso, I think we see a lineup with a combination of either of these players at 5/4/3 spot Wrightsil/Omax/Gold/Joplin.
That will allow for more length while not playing with a traditional big guy.
How can you say that Keeyan is nowhere near ready but decide that Gold is when we've seen nothing from either? Keeyan was the one matched up against Oso the most during the scrimmage. Keeyan has been the one matched up against Oso in most of the hype twitter videos. We won't need much from him being Oso's backup this year. If he can't even provide spot backup minutes as a 20 year old with over a year in the program, then honestly, he would have been a wasted scholarship. I don't expect a ton from him, but I do think he'll be the primary choice for back-up center.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1580256046811348992?s=20&t=yjydKspa4oyK0GAtWI8jFw
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How can you say that Keeyan is nowhere near ready but decide that Gold is when we've seen nothing from either? Keeyan was the one matched up against Oso the most during the scrimmage. Keeyan has been the one matched up against Oso in most of the hype twitter videos. We won't need much from him being Oso's backup this year. If he can't even provide spot backup minutes as a 20 year old with over a year in the program, then honestly, he would have been a wasted scholarship. I don't expect a ton from him, but I do think he'll be the primary choice for back-up center.
Admittedly the gold projection is mostly speculative based on the fact that keeyan has a smaller basketball pedigree without much experience on the high school/aau level while Gold is much more advanced due to his work with the nba world academy. Gold also impressed me at the scrimmage with his feel for the game.
But the overall point remains - keeyan isn’t the guy to back up oso. Especially in this league with the likes of Dixon, Nunge, Sanogo, Kalkbrenner, etc. We’ll see more hybrid lineups without a 5 than ones with Keeyan this year.
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Admittedly the gold projection is mostly speculative based on the fact that keeyan has a smaller basketball pedigree without much experience on the high school/aau level while Gold is much more advanced due to his work with the nba world academy. Gold also impressed me at the scrimmage with his feel for the game.
But the overall point remains - keeyan isn’t the guy to back up oso. Especially in this league with the likes of Dixon, Nunge, Sanogo, Kalkbrenner, etc. We’ll see more hybrid lineups without a 5 than ones with Keeyan this year.
I very much disagree. Keeyan spent the last year practicing against Oso and Kur while learning Shaka's offensive and defensive systems. If he can't provide 10 mpg as a backup he's a wasted scholarship. Every other "returner" is being expected to make a jump (excluding Ellis because of his injury), why is there the assumption that Keeyan will provide nothing?
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I was only comparing Akanno and Joplin as far as Scoopers having unwarranted expectations. Some predict Joplin will start or be among our leading scorers. I think he can be a rotation player this year, but I think anything more than that is unrealistic.
I'm glad to hear Joplin is looking good so far. I agree with Goose, let's see what happens once the season begins.
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I very much disagree. Keeyan spent the last year practicing against Oso and Kur while learning Shaka's offensive and defensive systems. If he can't provide 10 mpg as a backup he's a wasted scholarship. Every other "returner" is being expected to make a jump (excluding Ellis because of his injury), why is there the assumption that Keeyan will provide nothing?
Wasted scholarship is quite harsh. I just don’t think he’s ready this season. I also don’t think he was supposed to be ready to contribute this season given Shaka’s pursuit of multiple transfer bigs.
It is what it is. We’ll see in a few weeks. Hope I’m wrong.
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Wasted scholarship is quite harsh. I just don’t think he’s ready this season. I also don’t think he was supposed to be ready to contribute this season given Shaka’s pursuit of multiple transfer bigs.
It is what it is. We’ll see in a few weeks. Hope I’m wrong.
I don't know how it could be called anything other than a waste of a scholarship. If someone takes a non medical/injury related red-shirt year, spends the entire year working on their game, getting stronger, learning the system. Then they come back and can't even produce at a back-up level so much so that a preferred alternative is someone else plays out of position to cover for them, that has to be considered a wasted scholarship. If Sacar had come off of his red shirt year and been as ineffective as he was as a Freshman, he'd be considered a bust. If Keeyan can't at least lock down the backup C role, he'll be gone in 23-23 and we won't have to worry about being over our scholarship limit.
Now I don't expect that to happen. 2 ppg, 3 rpg in about 10 mpg while not looking completely lost on D is about what I'm hoping/expecting from him. I would also think that his usage would be around 10% and he would lead the team in fg% because he wouldn't take a shot more than 3 feet from the basket, but he will see gametime.
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I don't know how it could be called anything other than a waste of a scholarship. If someone takes a non medical/injury related red-shirt year, spends the entire year working on their game, getting stronger, learning the system. Then they come back and can't even produce at a back-up level so much so that a preferred alternative is someone else plays out of position to cover for them, that has to be considered a wasted scholarship. If Sacar had come off of his red shirt year and been as ineffective as he was as a Freshman, he'd be considered a bust. If Keeyan can't at least lock down the backup C role, he'll be gone in 23-23 and we won't have to worry about being over our scholarship limit.
Now I don't expect that to happen. 2 ppg, 3 rpg in about 10 mpg while not looking completely lost on D is about what I'm hoping/expecting from him. I would also think that his usage would be around 10% and he would lead the team in fg% because he wouldn't take a shot more than 3 feet from the basket, but he will see gametime.
What are you even talking about? There are plenty of players who show nothing through two years (whether redshirting a season or not) and are far from wastes of a scholarship.
Sacar also redshirted his sophomore year after player his freshman year. So that’s a different situation.
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Just like Jimmy Butler was a wasted scholarship.
I very much disagree. Keeyan spent the last year practicing against Oso and Kur while learning Shaka's offensive and defensive systems. If he can't provide 10 mpg as a backup he's a wasted scholarship. Every other "returner" is being expected to make a jump (excluding Ellis because of his injury), why is there the assumption that Keeyan will provide nothing?
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Shaka referenced that Keeyan is in year 2 of a 5 year plan.
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What are you even talking about? There are plenty of players who show nothing through two years (whether redshirting a season or not) and are far from wastes of a scholarship.
Sacar also redshirted his sophomore year after player his freshman year. So that’s a different situation.
Really? You're going to go with nothing? Go find a player that produced "nothing" for two years and developed into even a role player at a high major level.
Just like Jimmy Butler was a wasted scholarship.
What are you talking about? Jimmy produced from day 1.
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Really? You're going to go with nothing? Go find a player that produced "nothing" for two years and developed into even a role player at a high major level.
What are you talking about? Jimmy produced from day 1.
You provided one in this very thread. Sacar. Nothing as a freshman. Redshirt as a sophomore.
It happens a lot.
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You provided one in this very thread. Sacar. Nothing as a freshman. Redshirt as a sophomore.
It happens a lot.
Nope, my point is, coming off a red-shirt (like Keeyan), Sacar showed massive improvement. Had he not shown that improvement, he would have been considered a bust.
Look, I didn't exactly set a high bar for Keeyan to clear. 2 ppg, 3 rpg, 10 mpg is a less productive line than Sophomore Matt Heldt. The same Matt that got overrecruited by Theo who wasn't exactly sorely missed when he left. Hell, with TKO out there he should be able to triple that ppg output just by standing under the basket. If Keeyan can't clear that incredibly low bar, especially with the current lack of depth at C, then yes, I'm calling him a wasted scholarship.
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Nope, my point is, coming off a red-shirt (like Keeyan), Sacar showed massive improvement. Had he not shown that improvement, he would have been considered a bust.
Look, I didn't exactly set a high bar for Keeyan to clear. 2 ppg, 3 rpg, 10 mpg is a less productive line than Sophomore Matt Heldt. The same Matt that got overrecruited by Theo who wasn't exactly sorely missed when he left. Hell, with TKO out there he should be able to triple that ppg output just by standing under the basket. If Keeyan can't clear that incredibly low bar, especially with the current lack of depth at C, then yes, I'm calling him a wasted scholarship.
You asked for someone who produced nothing for two years and then developed even into a roll player at the high major level. Sacar is exactly that. There are many like him.
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You asked for someone who produced nothing for two years and then developed even into a roll player at the high major level. Sacar is exactly that. There are many like him.
As you noted
Sacar also redshirted his sophomore year after player his freshman year. So that’s a different situation.
Sacar was a bad example. Apologies. My original point.
If someone takes a non medical/injury related red-shirt year, spends the entire year working on their game, getting stronger, learning the system. Then they come back and can't even produce at a back-up level so much so that a preferred alternative is someone else plays out of position to cover for them, that has to be considered a wasted scholarship.
Remains true. If Keeyan spent a full year, uninjured, working on his game, and can't clear that incredibly low bar I set, which is apparently higher than a lot of people think of him, then I'd call him a bust. Again, don't think it's gonna happen, because I guess I'm higher on him than just about everyone else here.
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You asked for someone who produced nothing for two years and then developed even into a roll player at the high major level. Sacar is exactly that. There are many like him.
I remember 1 player who did nothing for a few years then became player of the year, Frank Kaminsky
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I remember 1 player who did nothing for a few years then became player of the year, Frank Kaminsky
Frank Kaminsky's Sophomore season. 4ppg, 2 rpg, 10 mpg. Clears the (completely arbitrary) bar that I set for Keeyan. Nice try though.
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I continue to be very enthusiastic about the outlook for this years Warriors Squad.
I think we will see a lot of improvement from all the returning players plus the transfer . As a whole I think this group can do well enough in The Big East to be over .500 in conference .
Not expecting much from the Freshman this season , so if they contribute that would be an upside.
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You asked for someone who produced nothing for two years and then developed even into a roll player at the high major level. Sacar is exactly that. There are many like him.
Ami McCaskil comes to mind. Averaged 4 points as a senior in high school. Redshirted his sophomore year at MU and became a star.
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Ami McCaskil comes to mind. Averaged 4 points as a senior in high school. Redshirted his sophomore year at MU and became a star.
He was before my time. He averaged 4 points his senior year of high school??? Damn, that’s crazy
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Ami McCaskil comes to mind. Averaged 4 points as a senior in high school. Redshirted his sophomore year at MU and became a star.
An example from 25 years ago that also doesn't meet the criteria I set since coming off his red shirt year he averaged 5 points 3 boards in 11 minutes per game. Again, my expectations for Keeyan are not exactly sky high. It just seems like some people are expecting a Yous Mbao level of production out of him.
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An example from 25 years ago that also doesn't meet the criteria I set since coming off his red shirt year he averaged 5 points 3 boards in 11 minutes per game. Again, my expectations for Keeyan are not exactly sky high. It just seems like some people are expecting a Yous Mbao level of production out of him.
To be fair, you used the term "wasted scholarship" before clarifying your completely arbitrary standard for what a wasted scholarship was. I don't think you realize that 3 rebounds a game in 10 minutes is actually very good for a backup. If they played 30 minutes a game at that rate they would be averaging 9 boards a game.
I do have one example that comes to mind that meets your arbitrary example. Jake Thomas. Redshirt, averaged 9.0 minutes, 1.8 points, 1.0 rebounds his first year off redshirt. Was a starter playing 30 minutes a game the following season. It was for a team that didn't make the NIT but still a high major. There are more examples, but I don't care to comb through old stat sheets.
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Scoop called Jimmy Butler a "wasted scholarship" too. I can't wait for Keeyan's long NBA career.
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To be fair, you used the term "wasted scholarship" before clarifying your completely arbitrary standard for what a wasted scholarship was. I don't think you realize that 3 rebounds a game in 10 minutes is actually very good for a backup. If they played 30 minutes a game at that rate they would be averaging 9 boards a game.
I do have one example that comes to mind that meets your arbitrary example. Jake Thomas. Redshirt, averaged 9.0 minutes, 1.8 points, 1.0 rebounds his first year off redshirt. Was a starter playing 30 minutes a game the following season. It was for a team that didn't make the NIT but still a high major. There are more examples, but I don't care to comb through old stat sheets.
That's one of the problems with arbitrary cutoffs (self inflicted wounds I know), is that every situation is different and should be treated as such. Right now our depth at C is Oso then a question mark. I think Keeyan can, should, and will seize that back-up role. If he can't beat out true freshman Gold or an out of position Omax or Zach, I think it would be a wasted scholarship. When Jake was coming off of his red-shirt year we had a well established depth chart of Junior and Derrick at the 1, Vander, Trent and Todd as the off guard while also seeing a lot of three guard sets. The situation was quite different. Realize that most of the confusion here has been due to my lack of being clear and apologize for that, I just think that everything is set up too perfectly for Keeyan to have that well defined back-up role, and if he can't lock that down it might be best for all parties to move on.
Scoop called Jimmy Butler a "wasted scholarship" too. I can't wait for Keeyan's long NBA career.
Already address and different situations. I said IF Keeyan can't assume this role THEN he would be a waste.
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While my expectations for Keeyan are tempered for this season, I definitely do not think it is a wasted schollie. He is a guy that might have a big jump a couple of times during his time at MU.
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I believe we are under the scholarship limit this year and we were also last year. Therefore, he has not been a wasted scholarship. Next year we are one over, so something has to happen.
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He’s a long term project skinny, athletic, big. He’s the type of player programs like MU need to take flyers on and frankly is very low risk/high reward as he’s basically the last scholarship player on the roster. Heck half the time that scholly would go to a cam marotta type.
Calling him a wasted scholarship because he doesn’t contribute his redshirt freshman season is shortsighted.
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Teams don't go 12 and 13 deep. Guys will either develop or move on. Hardly a waste of a scholarship.
Even by Scoop standards this is really dumb.
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I believe we are under the scholarship limit this year and we were also last year. Therefore, he has not been a wasted scholarship. Next year we are one over, so something has to happen.
This.
WI usually ends up promoting a walkon to fill their last schollies.
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Is there an official Scoop Level of a Dumbness Meter?
Teams don't go 12 and 13 deep. Guys will either develop or move on. Hardly a waste of a scholarship.
Even by Scoop standards this is really dumb.
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Is there an official Scoop Level of a Dumbness Meter?
Well….
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“Pulling a Rico” is way up there
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“Pulling a Rico” is way up there
Aww!
Like the crystal ball, I’m never wrong
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An example from 25 years ago that also doesn't meet the criteria I set since coming off his red shirt year he averaged 5 points 3 boards in 11 minutes per game. Again, my expectations for Keeyan are not exactly sky high. It just seems like some people are expecting a Yous Mbao level of production out of him.
McCaskil went from being a non-factor to being an NBA player. That is why I thought of him.
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McCaskil went from being a non-factor to being an NBA player. That is why I thought of him.
Chris Crawford
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Naming a lot of my classmates!
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Chris Crawford
He got better every year. I think he injured his knee when he was in the NBA. However, he was considered a much better prospect than McCaskil was coming out of high school. Hopefully, Shaka is finding hidden gems like these two players.
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He got better every year. I think he injured his knee when he was in the NBA. However, he was considered a much better prospect than McCaskil was coming out of high school. Hopefully, Shaka is finding hidden gems like these two players.
And, if I remember correctly, he didn't use a scholarship because the Astros paid his way. <I maybe incorrect>
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Chris Crawford
Guy drove me crazy. He’d catch a pass at the top of the key, shuffle his feet and drain a “3” that wouldn’t count due to a traveling violation. Frequently.
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And, if I remember correctly, he didn't use a scholarship because the Astros paid his way. <I maybe incorrect>
you are correct, Astros covered tuition. Crawford had a few good NBA seasons too. Went for 40 a game or two. Atlanta, as I recall
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Are you sure Mike Deane did not adopt him to save a scholarship?
And, if I remember correctly, he didn't use a scholarship because the Astros paid his way. <I maybe incorrect>
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Guy drove me crazy. He’d catch a pass at the top of the key, shuffle his feet and drain a “3” that wouldn’t count due to a traveling violation. Frequently.
Lol. Forgot about that "Crawford shuffle." It was perplexing, but funny retrospectively.
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Anyone hear about the scrimmage at all?
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Anyone hear about the scrimmage at all?
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1581397019007950849?t=gVA-3G07omIkhyd9Ki5VWQ&s=19
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1581397019007950849?t=gVA-3G07omIkhyd9Ki5VWQ&s=19
Sean Jones, huh?
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First test against a Big East bruiser didn’t go well.
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First test against a Big East bruiser didn’t go well.
Alston is a tougher guard than Golden and both seemed to have their way down low. There won't be much resistance from Marquette near the rim against prominent bigs.
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Alston is a tougher guard than Golden and both seemed to have their way down low. There won't be much resistance from Marquette near the rim against prominent bigs.
MU team this year is the skinniest group in years, and he keeps on recruiting lanky skinny kids???
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Alston is a tougher guard than Golden and both seemed to have their way down low. There won't be much resistance from Marquette near the rim against prominent bigs.
Well...seems Loyala had their hands full with the quickness of Kam Jones and Sean Jones. Kam with 27 leading all scorers.
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Who won the scrimmage? I have confidence in Jones & Jones. Bryce Golden is still playing?
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Who won the scrimmage? I have confidence in Jones & Jones. Bryce Golden is still playing?
No word on score.
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If Kam becomes proficient at attacking the paint and both scoring and passing off the bounce? Look out. That J is a picture perfect and from deep.
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The best of Mopes speculate negatively with no information.
First test against a Big East bruiser didn’t go well.
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The best of Mopes speculate negatively with no information.
…there is information.
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Alston is a tougher guard than Golden and both seemed to have their way down low. There won't be much resistance from Marquette near the rim against prominent bigs.
Were you there or did you hear they had their way down low from someone who was there?
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Lots of rebounds given up. 9 boards for Alston and 8 for golden.
Wrightsil Oso lineups looking necessary.
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Were you there or did you hear they had their way down low from someone who was there?
Neither.
I've just seen a lot of both players. Alston averaged 21 and 11 last year in D2. Plays above the rim and is an overall difficult player to guard at 6'6" as an undersize forward.
As for Marquette, they just don't have much strength down low. They'll be prone to getting "bullied" (for lack of a better term) down low.
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Neither.
I've just seen a lot of both players. Alston averaged 21 and 11 last year in D2. Plays above the rim and is an overall difficult player to guard at 6'6" as an undersize forward.
As for Marquette, they just don't have much strength down low. They'll be prone to getting "bullied" (for lack of a better term) down low.
It's a fair concern. We need Wrightsil and O-Max to find a way to battle inside.
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Who won the scrimmage? I have confidence in Jones & Jones. Bryce Golden is still playing?
We're down 3 seeds already. Not good.
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Was sista Jean on hand to watch killa Kam ball out?
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…there is information.
Brew seems to think Marquette skunked Loyola (I assume that is what is meant compared to the Providence game mubb won by 31...). So...COLE?
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Brew seems to think Marquette skunked Loyola (I assume that is what is meant compared to the Providence game mubb won by 31...). So...COLE?
Don't think it was quite to that level, but also not particularly close.
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Brew, what do you realistically expect from Oso? There's been some reports he's going to handle the ball a lot for a big but I'm much more concerned with whether he can score in the half-court and defend and rebound. I'd like to see him develop a mean streak. Also, can this MU team create turns and get transition hoops?
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I mean, he pretty much has to be a 25-30 mpg guy just based on roster construction. I'm hoping to see him be a bit more assertive on offense. Maybe tick that usage up to 17-20%, while hopefully keeping his efficiency. He needs to be stronger. Doesn't have to protect the rim like Kur, but has to hold his own against Big East bigs. If he can be around 9/7 he should be fine. I have friends that think he could be a big breakout guy, but I need to see it first. His usage was too low for a Justin like explosion.
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Until he shows he can hit a 15 footer it will be hard for him to get to the hoop since the other center can play off him
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Until he shows he can hit a 15 footer it will be hard for him to get to the hoop since the other center can play off him
I was thinking the same thing. I do think he will benefit from extended mins but hitting some jumpers would certainly help. He also obviously has to avoid the ticky-tack fouls.
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I mean, he pretty much has to be a 25-30 mpg guy just based on roster construction. I'm hoping to see him be a bit more assertive on offense. Maybe tick that usage up to 17-20%, while hopefully keeping his efficiency. He needs to be stronger. Doesn't have to protect the rim like Kur, but has to hold his own against Big East bigs. If he can be around 9/7 he should be fine. I have friends that think he could be a big breakout guy, but I need to see it first. His usage was too low for a Justin like explosion.
Ya...strength is a definite concern. Because if he gets pushed around we're really light inside.
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It might be great to recruit tall skinny kids if they play Like Dennis Rodman but Oso has never shown me a toughness you need, Inam hoping Zach can give them some of that but have not seen him play yet. OMax does not have that dog in him either, soft as well
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It might be great to recruit tall skinny kids if they play Like Dennis Rodman but Oso has never shown me a toughness you need, Inam hoping Zach can give them some of that but have not seen him play yet. OMax does not have that dog in him either, soft as well
There's never been anyone like Rodman. He and Muggsy are more unicornesque than Jordan or Lebron.
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It's a fair concern. We need Wrightsil and O-Max to find a way to battle inside.
Hopefully Shaka screams this at them repeatedly during televised timeouts.
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Hopefully Shaka screams this at them repeatedly during televised timeouts.
Better go with medieval weapons inside.
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Don't think it was quite to that level, but also not particularly close.
Do you consider your source reliable as to their knowledge of the result of the Loyola scrimmage?
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Do you consider your source reliable as to their knowledge of the result of the Loyola scrimmage?
Yes, very.
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I mean, he pretty much has to be a 25-30 mpg guy just based on roster construction. I'm hoping to see him be a bit more assertive on offense. Maybe tick that usage up to 17-20%, while hopefully keeping his efficiency. He needs to be stronger. Doesn't have to protect the rim like Kur, but has to hold his own against Big East bigs. If he can be around 9/7 he should be fine. I have friends that think he could be a big breakout guy, but I need to see it first. His usage was too low for a Justin like explosion.
Agreed. I’m envisioning a potential increase to 16-18% usage, but something meaningfully above 20% is difficult for me to see.
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Yes, very.
Is this someone you normally Broeker information from?
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Yes, very.
Thanks. Good to hear. Kenpom has Loyola at preseason 59. My gut feeling is that we are going to play with a lot of speed/tempo/athleticism and "violence" to where we should be able to cause problems. Really excited to see this team play. Think they could surprise again, similar to last year, if not slightly better.
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Better go with medieval weapons inside.
Truthfully, I don't know yet about our arsenal.
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Is this someone you normally Broeker information from?
I think you're going to force him plead the 5th
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I think you're going to force him plead the 5th
I plead the 3rd.
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I plead the 3rd.
Anti-military
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Are you sure? the Mopes seem to think that MU lost the scrimmage...
Don't think it was quite to that level, but also not particularly close.
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Are you sure? the Mopes seem to think that MU lost the scrimmage...
We didn't beat the spread = loss
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I'm here for the Tyler Kolek "F You" tour this year.
I got it wrong. It's the "F Them" tour.
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I got it wrong. It's the "F Them" tour.
Nice call on your part. If he backs it up and start well in conference, those t-shirts will sell like crazy.
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New Ben Steele article dicussing TK's shooting (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/10/21/marquette-point-guard-tyler-kolek-fixed-his-shooting-mechanics/69577752007/)
Oops: Kolek said he missed all four of his three-point attempts against Loyola (Chicago) in a closed-door scrimmage last weekend at the Al McGuire Center.
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https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/10/16/23406906/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-big-east-kenpom-preseason-ratings-rankings-algorithm
BE Coaches and Ken Pomeroy don't think Marquette will be good this season. Shaka has his work cut out for him to change the perception of Marquette Basketball. Go Warriors!
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New Ben Steele article dicussing TK's shooting (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/10/21/marquette-point-guard-tyler-kolek-fixed-his-shooting-mechanics/69577752007/)
Oops: Kolek said he missed all four of his three-point attempts against Loyola (Chicago) in a closed-door scrimmage last weekend at the Al McGuire Center.
This should keep the COLE Patrol going
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I’ve really grown to appreciate crean over the years. The guy lives and breathes hoops and truly loves MU. Very exciting words from him -
https://twitter.com/tomcrean/status/1583539308677320704?s=46&t=1IH73KY8oSrtGY_JD7n2OA
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Mopes worried about perception now. Just win, that’s all that’s needed.
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/10/16/23406906/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-big-east-kenpom-preseason-ratings-rankings-algorithm
BE Coaches and Ken Pomeroy don't think Marquette will be good this season. Shaka has his work cut out for him to change the perception of Marquette Basketball. Go Warriors!
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https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2022/10/16/23406906/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-big-east-kenpom-preseason-ratings-rankings-algorithm
BE Coaches and Ken Pomeroy don't think Marquette will be good this season. Shaka has his work cut out for him to change the perception of Marquette Basketball. Go Warriors!
You live for crap like this.
Oh, about your "I have factually stated that we sucked for 10 years". That includes '12-13'. Explain the link. Did we suck because we did not make it into the Final Four?
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/2012
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King of the Mopes worried about perception now. Just win, that’s all that’s needed.
FIFY
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I’ve really grown to appreciate crean over the years. The guy lives and breathes hoops and truly loves MU. Very exciting words from him -
https://twitter.com/tomcrean/status/1583539308677320704?s=46&t=1IH73KY8oSrtGY_JD7n2OA
Is it just me or is all this talk of Tyler’s exceptional shooting just an undue burden on the kids game coming into the season?
I get that Shaka wants him to shoot because he sees it in practice and it’ll take his game to the next level, but I worry that all the talk is just going to put more pressure on him to make shots.
Call me a worry wart, but I don’t think TyKo lacks confidence.
Maybe in his shot he does because it hasn’t translated to the games, so the play is to build up the confidence to get him believing in hopes that he shoots his way out of it.
Can’t remember hearing so many compliments about a poor/average in game 3P shooter in my time as a fan.
Hope it works!
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Is it just me or is all this talk of Tyler’s exceptional shooting just an undue burden on the kids game coming into the season?
I get that Shaka wants him to shoot because he sees it in practice and it’ll take his game to the next level, but I worry that all the talk is just going to put more pressure on him to make shots.
Call me a worry wart, but I don’t think TyKo lacks confidence.
Maybe in his shot he does because it hasn’t translated to the games, so the play is to build up the confidence to get him believing in hopes that he shoots his way out of it.
Can’t remember hearing so many compliments about a poor/average in game 3P shooter in my time as a fan.
Hope it works!
I think you meant 'complaints". A poster's autocorrect once resulted in his accusing me of "fishing for complaints" Hell, I'm married! I get more complaints by noon every day than I can possibly handle for the rest of the day.
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4ever must be on TO
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I think you meant 'complaints". A poster's autocorrect once resulted in his accusing me of "fishing for complaints" Hell, I'm married! I get more complaints by noon every day than I can possibly handle for the rest of the day.
Why didn’t you wash the dishes?
I meant compliments, from those that matter (ie the coaches)
I think the complaints mainly come because as a fan base we’ve heard he’s a great shooter.
If we didn’t hear that I’m pretty sure we would just say “well this kid has a lot of moxie and an amazing ability to read the game and make the perfect pass, but perhaps he should just stick to only taking the wide open 3”
Versus “where in the heck is that shooting ability we keep hearing about?”
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Gotta love the attitude
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3439646/unnatural carnal knowledge-em-tyler-kolek-gave-the-best-answer-at-media-day-after-finding-out-marquette-was-picked-9th-in-the-big-east
Hope it translates to wins :D
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Is it just me or is all this talk of Tyler’s exceptional shooting just an undue burden on the kids game coming into the season?
I get that Shaka wants him to shoot because he sees it in practice and it’ll take his game to the next level, but I worry that all the talk is just going to put more pressure on him to make shots.
Call me a worry wart, but I don’t think TyKo lacks confidence.
Maybe in his shot he does because it hasn’t translated to the games, so the play is to build up the confidence to get him believing in hopes that he shoots his way out of it.
Can’t remember hearing so many compliments about a poor/average in game 3P shooter in my time as a fan.
Hope it works!
He’s a crazy hard worker and a very good practice player so it doesn’t surprise me he’s shooting the ball well this off season.
But end of the day, he needs to shoot substantially better than last season. He’s going to have the ball in his hands a ton this year and it’s going to be ugly if he’s not shooting above a respectable clip.
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Gotta love the attitude
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3439646/unnatural carnal knowledge-em-tyler-kolek-gave-the-best-answer-at-media-day-after-finding-out-marquette-was-picked-9th-in-the-big-east
Hope it translates to wins :D
When did this happen?
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Worry Wart
Is it just me or is all this talk of Tyler’s exceptional shooting just an undue burden on the kids game coming into the season?
I get that Shaka wants him to shoot because he sees it in practice and it’ll take his game to the next level, but I worry that all the talk is just going to put more pressure on him to make shots.
Call me a worry wart, but I don’t think TyKo lacks confidence.
Maybe in his shot he does because it hasn’t translated to the games, so the play is to build up the confidence to get him believing in hopes that he shoots his way out of it.
Can’t remember hearing so many compliments about a poor/average in game 3P shooter in my time as a fan.
Hope it works!
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When’s the next secret skirmish?
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When’s the next secret skirmish?
Public scrimmage at Fiserv on 10/27, secret scrimmage against Missouri in Chicago on 10/29.
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Public scrimmage at Fiserv on 10/27, secret scrimmage against Missouri in Chicago on 10/29.
Thanks Brew.
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Public scrimmage at Fiserv on 10/27, secret scrimmage against Missouri in Chicago on 10/29.
Thanks for blowing the secret, brew. If we end up going 0-31 this season, it's on you!
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Public scrimmage at Fiserv on 10/27, secret scrimmage against Missouri in Chicago on 10/29.
Best guess on possible seed +/- scenarios?
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Best guess on possible seed +/- scenarios?
Shaka's wants to play with violence and the scrimmage is at the site of the atomic bomb discovery. #hiroshima
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Shaka's wants to play with violence and the scrimmage is at the site of the atomic bomb discovery. #hiroshima
Blow it all up....
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4ever must be on TO
#freethegoosendoc
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If they are on an enforced hiatus, they will be back in a week.
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Can’t wait to hear how unfairly they’re treated here.
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#freethegoosendoc
Probably should not do something immediately after the mods tell everyone not to. I thought you were all about law and order?
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Probably should not do something immediately after the mods tell everyone not to. I thought you were all about law and order?
i am, but i don't go squealing to them every time i see an infraction
#hallwaymonitor
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Probably should not do something immediately after the mods tell everyone not to. I thought you were all about law and order?
Law and Order is a fluid construct in some worlds.
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i am, but i don't go squealing to them every time i see an infraction
I don't think anyone turned them in. Rocky was following the topic and had just posted telling people to knock it off.
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Probably should not do something immediately after the mods tell everyone not to. I thought you were all about law and order?
Only mopes follow directions
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I don't think anyone turned them in. Rocky was following the topic and had just posted telling people to knock it off.
See something, say something
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Hilarious.
You may be unaware of the UDRF Lenny? The Underground Dwarf Rebel Force? They are not to be trifled with and have the uncanny ability to attack when you least expect it. There will be no warning and may God have mercy on your soul.
So, I am guessing you come up to my kneecap.
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Law and Order is a fluid construct in some worlds.
Like gender, a’ina?
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Like gender, a’ina?
The irony runs thick
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Like gender, a’ina?
https://youtu.be/GP0X0CRMZLU
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The irony runs thick
To the thick headed
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To the thick headed
LOL
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Didn't see Stevie and Kolek in any of today's clips, but hopefully they were just out of the camera shots and not absent from practice.
Chase Ross had a monster putback slam in 4 on 4s. I think he might have a larger role this year than once anticipated. His defense seems advanced for a Freshman.
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Didn't see Stevie and Kolek in any of today's clips, but hopefully they were just out of the camera shots and not absent from practice.
Chase Ross had a monster putback slam in 4 on 4s. I think he might have a larger role this year than once anticipated. His defense seems advanced for a Freshman.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1584892611541798917?t=7i8hk9XvnOQEPbYRih5BWg&s=19
Here's another...Chase is built like an upperclassman. He may have an incredibly high ceiling.
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Kolek was in the pictures they posted to FB. Did not see Stevie.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1584892611541798917?t=7i8hk9XvnOQEPbYRih5BWg&s=19
Here's another...Chase is built like an upperclassman. He may have an incredibly high ceiling.
Between Chase's explosiveness and watching the video of Zaide that came out yesterday, it's clear there is a prototype for what Shaka is looking for. Not to get too far ahead, but I am really excited for what Zaide and Tre bring to the backcourt next season combined with a year of growth for Chase. Lots of athletes and high ceilings (not to mention Al Amadou, but was specifically talking guards here).
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Between Chase's explosiveness and watching the video of Zaide that came out yesterday, it's clear there is a prototype for what Shaka is looking for. Not to get too far ahead, but I am really excited for what Zaide and Tre bring to the backcourt next season combined with a year of growth for Chase. Lots of athletes and high ceilings (not to mention Al Amadou, but was specifically talking guards here).
And it is highly likely that none of Zaide, Tre, and Chase will be starters at the beginning of next season.
Kolek, Mitchell, Jones are most likely. Loaded guards room.
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Loaded guards room.
Give 'em some damn coffee and sober 'em up before our opener, OK?
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And it is highly likely that none of Zaide, Tre, and Chase will be starters at the beginning of next season.
Kolek, Mitchell, Jones are most likely. Loaded guards room.
Not to mention Sean Jones.
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And it is highly likely that none of Zaide, Tre, and Chase will be starters at the beginning of next season.
Kolek, Mitchell, Jones are most likely. Loaded guards room.
And Jones, first time I can tell the talent in the backcourt will be as good as ever, I can see somebody transferring
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And it is highly likely that none of Zaide, Tre, and Chase will be starters at the beginning of next season.
Kolek, Mitchell, Jones are most likely. Loaded guards room.
That’s a loaded backfield if I’ve ever seen one! Don’t forget Emarion, who seems to be very involved with the program even if in the background until next season.
Sounds like a fantasy nightmare, who to start and who to sit! Or like a coaches fantasy.
It’s interesting that before the ball even tips in 2022 you can start to see Shakas long term plan, in both the back court and front court.
He’s trying to get old and stay old with the first crop of players- TyKo, Kam, Stevie will be good seasoned guards next season as long as they are at MU. Sean Jones and Chase will have a year under their belt and Zaide/Tre will be coming in to start the next generation, along with Emarion.
Up front he’s clearly pushing the long/skinny/athletic bigs ala Oso, Keeyan, Amadou and sprinkling in a few of the pick and pop shooting types at the 4/5 (Ben Gold, recruiting Kneuppel). Then he’s trying to get some “do it all” 3/4s like Omax/Jop, even though those two aren’t quite there yet but they are working at it.
At that point I think we start to see him go after a few more top 50 recruits. He’s making it known that Oso will “handle the ball more than any big in the country,” not so much to tout Oso imo, but more so to use that as a recruiting schtick for the next crop of highly ranked bigs he’s going after. The best recruitment tool he can use is having Oso be successful enough in that role and then showing an elite recruit at an official visit against Wisconsin how he would be used when he comes in- new age bigs really want to handle the ball as much as possible because that’s where the game has gone.
If the younger guys outplay some of the upperclassmen then they win the spot and Shaka finds an important role for someone like Stevie/Emarion etc and so the cycle begins.
Seems like his recruiting vision is going as planned, let’s see how it translates on the court this season
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Seems like his recruiting vision is going as planned, let’s see how i translates on the court this season
Indeed. Though the last few posts read like the annual pre-season "look how amazing we'll be in 2 years" threads. They never really panned out with Crean, or Buzz, and definitely not Wojo, but perhaps Shaka will be different. The previous coaches all had problems either developing these future impact players, or problems hanging on them. Time will tell.
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Indeed. Though the last few posts read like the annual pre-season "look how amazing we'll be in 2 years" threads. They never really panned out with Crean, or Buzz, and definitely not Wojo, but perhaps Shaka will be different. The previous coaches all had problems either developing these future impact players, or problems hanging on them. Time will tell.
Yep, I would love for every player on the roster to develop into a all conference type player, but history has shown that will not happen. Let's start with getting more hits than misses and move forward from there.
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Shaka will have the pieces for his preferred 3-guard line up as well as the ability to really extend the pressure.
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Add in the fact that now we have to pay them to stay if they happen to excel and we have have a whole other layer of complication.
Very interested to see if we can pay our next Jimmy, Jae, Wade etc. after their initial break out year that precedes their next great (all big East type) season.
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I am excited that our next Jimmy, Jae, Wade, etc., will have the opportunity to benefit from his own name, image and likeness, as is the case for every other student at Marquette.
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I am excited that our next Jimmy, Jae, Wade, etc., will have the opportunity to benefit from his own name, image and likeness, as is the case for every other student at Marquette.
100%. Just hope it’s at MU so we can enjoy it!
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100%. Just hope it’s at MU so we can enjoy it!
It will be.
We Are Marquette!
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1584984711440453632?t=e1eFhhApxlziW7HD5ioeMg&s=19
Still not seeing any Stevie, but this team has some exciting abilities. 13 days is forever away.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1584984711440453632?t=e1eFhhApxlziW7HD5ioeMg&s=19
Still not seeing any Stevie, but this team has some exciting abilities. 13 days is forever away.
He was seen in a walking boot
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He was seen in a walking boot
It actually was the kind of boot that's put on a car when the owner has too many tickets.
It really looked painful on Stevie.
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It will be.
We Are Marquette!
TBD 82. Hope so.
We are Marquette!
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1584984711440453632?t=e1eFhhApxlziW7HD5ioeMg&s=19
Still not seeing any Stevie, but this team has some exciting abilities. 13 days is forever away.
Missed the part where TKO was laying into Jop. Excited to hear some reports out of the open gym on Thursday.
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Loving the Kam hype and hope its real. But it seems like all pundits are just following each other and saying the same thing about us. 9th ish place but Kam could surprise.
Could go any number of ways but my hope is Kam is pretty damn good but also causing all reports to be lazy and really overlook the rest of the roster. So that we really surprise.
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Loving the Kam hype and hope its real. But it seems like all pundits are just following each other and saying the same thing about us. 9th ish place but Kam could surprise.
Could go any number of ways but my hope is Kam is pretty damn good but also causing all reports to be lazy and really overlook the rest of the roster. So that we really surprise.
I’m not sure where we’ll finish but I’m pretty confident it will be better than 9th.
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I’m not sure where we’ll finish but I’m pretty confident it will be better than 9th.
After seeing snippets of scrimmages and practices and now seeing a bit of St. John's in an exhibition tonight, I don't see anything impressive about them. Nothing at all.
They are one of the teams picked ahead of the Golden Eagles.
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https://youtu.be/0g49XeERMys
(Around the 51 minute mark) John Fanta asked Lavall Jordan, Rob Dauster, and Scoop Jardine:
Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Butler. You get to buy 2 stocks, who are you buying in to.
Lavall: Marquette and Providence
Dauster: Marquette and Butler (and Providence)
Scoop: Marquette and...Georgetown
There is Marquette buy-in to Shaka's system and culture from the outsiders and Lavall having faced him.
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https://theathletic.com/3726862/2022/10/26/basketball-recruiting-work-ethic/?source=user_shared_article
This article in the athletic defines in many ways the players Shaka and many other successful coaches are looking for (work ethic and competitiveness play a huge role). Self explains why many of his most successful players were from outside the top 100. He looks for shooting and explosiveness with work ethic. He’d rather have players that stay 2-3 years rather than one and dones. Sounds exactly like Shaka’s recruiting and retaining philosophy at MU.
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https://theathletic.com/3726862/2022/10/26/basketball-recruiting-work-ethic/?source=user_shared_article
This article in the athletic defines in many ways the players Shaka and many other successful coaches are looking for (work ethic and competitiveness play a huge role). Self explains why many of his most successful players were from outside the top 100. He looks for shooting and explosiveness with work ethic. He’d rather have players that stay 2-3 years rather than one and dones. Sounds exactly like Shaka’s recruiting and retaining philosophy at MU.
Excellent article. The paragraph quoting Tony Bennett about what he is looking for before a player is ready to play ... that definitely translates to what Shaka is looking for.
For that matter, it's universal all the way down to the high school and even middle school levels. Heck, I might read it to my kids at our first practice next week!
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I am excited that our next Jimmy, Jae, Wade, etc., will have the opportunity to benefit from his own name, image and likeness, as is the case for every other student at Marquette.
...and 55% of those students will have nearly 30k in student loans to pay back; unlike the next Jimmy, Jae, Wade, etc.
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...and 55% of those students will have nearly 30k in student loans to pay back; unlike the next Jimmy, Jae, Wade, etc.
So?
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I continue to be enthusiastic about the Outlook for this years squad . My bullishness stems from the view that I believe all the individuals will improve . Further , Shaka has these kids understand if they play for each other good thing gs will happen.
The Big Wast will be tough, however , I don’t see any teams that are unbeatable from MU perspective . I believe we can have a winning season in conference .
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https://theathletic.com/3726862/2022/10/26/basketball-recruiting-work-ethic/?source=user_shared_article
This article in the athletic defines in many ways the players Shaka and many other successful coaches are looking for (work ethic and competitiveness play a huge role). Self explains why many of his most successful players were from outside the top 100. He looks for shooting and explosiveness with work ethic. He’d rather have players that stay 2-3 years rather than one and dones. Sounds exactly like Shaka’s recruiting and retaining philosophy at MU.
I went back 10 years, and over that time Self has never had fewer than 5 top 100 players on the roster, with as many as 10 with an average of 7.6. He may have had some players outside the top 100 that have done well, but they've never been a majority of his roster.
And whether his preference for players outside the top 100 informs his current recruiting preferences, I note that all three of his commits for 2023 are ranked in the top 100 (#35 Elmarko Jackson, #46 Chris Johnson, and #77 Jamari McDowell.
As far as staying away from one and dones, he's offered eighteen five-stars in the class of '23 and fourteen in the class of '24. I don't buy that he'd turn all these players away if any picked Kansas
I'm not saying Self is full of crap, but consider the source here.
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I went back 10 years, and over that time Self has never had fewer than 5 top 100 players on the roster, with as many as 10 with an average of 7.6. He may have had some players outside the top 100 that have done well, but they've never been a majority of his roster.
And whether his preference for players outside the top 100 informs his current recruiting preferences, I note that all three of his commits for 2023 are ranked in the top 100 (#35 Elmarko Jackson, #46 Chris Johnson, and #77 Jamari McDowell.
As far as staying away from one and dones, he's offered eighteen five-stars in the class of '23 and fourteen in the class of '24. I don't buy that he'd turn all these players away if any picked Kansas
I'm not saying Self is full of crap, but consider the source here.
Self was good for about 1 one and done a year prior to 2019. In the four classes since, he's only landed 2 five stars, one was ranked #21, the other #20, so neither are for sure one and dones (Bryce Thompson was not a one and done, Gradey Dick is a FR this season so we'll see). So far in 2023, he's landed three four stars.
Maybe Self's lost his recruiting touch though with his unlimited NIL budget and coming off a championship that seems hard to believe. It's also possible he's taking the Jay Wright approach of getting as many of those guys ranked #20-#60 who are really good at basketball but still stay multiple seasons. That doesn't mean that he won't take a one and done here and there but I don't see a reason to believe that he's lying about preferring players who stay multiple seasons who match a specific criteria.
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Self was good for about 1 one and done a year prior to 2019. In the four classes since, he's only landed 2 five stars, one was ranked #21, the other #20, so neither are for sure one and dones (Bryce Thompson was not a one and done, Gradey Dick is a FR this season so we'll see). So far in 2023, he's landed three four stars.
So, he's landing fewer than he did before. Shouldn't we look at offers instead? Self controls how many offers he makes. He has no control over who accepts. Or, at least not anymore.
Did you consider that maybe--just maybe--there were other factors that came about in 2019 that may have hurt Self's ability to land the highest quality players? Hint: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/)
Five Star Players offered:
2013: 16 offers, landed 3
2014: 13 offers, landed 2
2015: 18 offers, landed 2
2016: 23 offers, landed 1
2017: 20 offers, landed 1
2018: 20 offers, landed 2
2019: 23 offers, landed 0
2020: 16 offers, landed 1
2021: 14 offers, landed 0
2022: 15 offers, landed 1
2023: 18 offers, landed 0 so far
2024: 14 offers, landed 0 so far
Hmm. For a guy who claims to be most interested in 4- and 3-star players, he certainly offers a lot of five-stars.
And it's interesting that he never really backed off recruiting them. And just coincidentally started landing fewer of them beginning right about the time his name surfaced in the NCAA and FBI investigations into alleged cheating.
Maybe Self's lost his recruiting touch though with his unlimited NIL budget and coming off a championship that seems hard to believe.
And yet, when you look at the hard data, he's still offering five-star players at roughly the same rate he historically has. They just aren't saying yes as frequently as they used to.
It is a puzzlement.
It's also possible he's taking the Jay Wright approach of getting as many of those guys ranked #20-#60 who are really good at basketball but still stay multiple seasons. That doesn't mean that he won't take a one and done here and there but I don't see a reason to believe that he's lying about preferring players who stay multiple seasons who match a specific criteria.
This is really a non-statement--it's kind of like saying coaches prefer players with a bigger wingspan, or a higher vertical leap, or a better shooting touch.
Would Self prefer a player to stay two or three years? Sure. Would he turn down Chet Holmgren in lieu of such a player? Doubtful.
Unless you can find a quote that says Bill Self pulled offers from the likes of Jalen Suggs, Cade Cunningham, Chet Holmgren, Shaedon Sharpe, etc. simply because they were projected to be one-and-dones, then his actions aren't consistent with his words.
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So, he's landing fewer than he did before. Shouldn't we look at offers instead? Self controls how many offers he makes. He has no control over who accepts. Or, at least not anymore.
Did you consider that maybe--just maybe--there were other factors that came about in 2019 that may have hurt Self's ability to land the highest quality players? Hint: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/)
Five Star Players offered:
2013: 16 offers, landed 3
2014: 13 offers, landed 2
2015: 18 offers, landed 2
2016: 23 offers, landed 1
2017: 20 offers, landed 1
2018: 20 offers, landed 2
2019: 23 offers, landed 0
2020: 16 offers, landed 1
2021: 14 offers, landed 0
2022: 15 offers, landed 1
2023: 18 offers, landed 0 so far
2024: 14 offers, landed 0 so far
Hmm. For a guy who claims to be most interested in 4- and 3-star players, he certainly offers a lot of five-stars.
And it's interesting that he never really backed off recruiting them. And just coincidentally started landing fewer of them beginning right about the time his name surfaced in the NCAA and FBI investigations into alleged cheating.
And yet, when you look at the hard data, he's still offering five-star players at roughly the same rate he historically has. They just aren't saying yes as frequently as they used to.
It is a puzzlement.
This is really a non-statement--it's kind of like saying coaches prefer players with a bigger wingspan, or a higher vertical leap, or a better shooting touch.
Would Self prefer a player to stay two or three years? Sure. Would he turn down Chet Holmgren in lieu of such a player? Doubtful.
Unless you can find a quote that says Bill Self pulled offers from the likes of Jalen Suggs, Cade Cunningham, Chet Holmgren, Shaedon Sharpe, etc. simply because they were projected to be one-and-dones, then his actions aren't consistent with his words.
No you shouldn't look at offers for multiple reasons. First, just because a player finishes ranked as a five star doesn't mean that they were a 5-star when they were offered by a specific school. Second because no one publicly pulls offers and you know that. They just stop recruiting a player. An offer isn't set in stone, a player just can't call up a school and say you offered me you have to take me. Third, just because a player is a 5-star doesn't mean they are a one and done, especially those ranked outside the top 15. That's not to say that just because Self hasn't been landing one and dones that it for sure means he's not pursuing them as much. I already conceded that it could just be that he lost his recruiting chops. Personally, I think he's telling the truth here.
I don't agree with your premise that a coach wouldn't turn down a one and done in favor of a multi-year player. Would a coach turn down Chet Holmgren for Keeyan Itejere? No. Would a coach turn down Julian Philips (#13 ranked 2022 recruit offered by Kansas) for Gradey Dick (#20 ranked recruit landed by Kansas)? I think probably if they felt that Dick was a better fit ( ;D) and especially if Phillips was planning on going pro and Dick was planning on multiple years of college. I think it's even possible that a coach would turn down a Chet Holmgren type player in favor of guy like Gradey Dick if they knew that Holmgren was only there for a year and Dick would be there for 2 or 3. After all, Kansas didn't land Holmgren and in the end they won the Championship and Gonzaga got sent home early.
I don't know why you get all bristly when a coach says that he prefers multi-year players to one and dones. Surely you understand the advantage of having a player in your program for more than one year. It's really not that outrageous of a statement. It won't matter much longer anyway. One and dones will be a thing of the past soon enough.
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Equalizer,
I think your point is fair. But he did have success just this past year with multiple year players. He also wasn’t the only coach in the article. Overall I think it was a good read and pointed toward, in general terms, what Shaka is doing. Nothing more.
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No you shouldn't look at offers for multiple reasons. First, just because a player finishes ranked as a five star doesn't mean that they were a 5-star when they were offered by a specific school. Second because no one publicly pulls offers and you know that. They just stop recruiting a player. An offer isn't set in stone, a player just can't call up a school and say you offered me you have to take me. Third, just because a player is a 5-star doesn't mean they are a one and done, especially those ranked outside the top 15. That's not to say that just because Self hasn't been landing one and dones that it for sure means he's not pursuing them as much. I already conceded that it could just be that he lost his recruiting chops. Personally, I think he's telling the truth here.
I don't agree with your premise that a coach wouldn't turn down a one and done in favor of a multi-year player. Would a coach turn down Chet Holmgren for Keeyan Itejere? No. Would a coach turn down Julian Philips (#13 ranked 2022 recruit offered by Kansas) for Gradey Dick (#20 ranked recruit landed by Kansas)? I think probably if they felt that Dick was a better fit ( ;D) and especially if Phillips was planning on going pro and Dick was planning on multiple years of college. I think it's even possible that a coach would turn down a Chet Holmgren type player in favor of guy like Gradey Dick if they knew that Holmgren was only there for a year and Dick would be there for 2 or 3. After all, Kansas didn't land Holmgren and in the end they won the Championship and Gonzaga got sent home early.
I don't know why you get all bristly when a coach says that he prefers multi-year players to one and dones. Surely you understand the advantage of having a player in your program for more than one year. It's really not that outrageous of a statement. It won't matter much longer anyway. One and dones will be a thing of the past soon enough.
It’s not like those numbers are 2 five star players. Your point then might stand that maybe a kid blew up after the offer or maybe the five star was the 22nd ranked player. Those numbers show he’s offering a majority of five stars out there. It’d take a hell of a lot of movement and/or telling a hell of a lot of REALLY good players “we’re going to offer you a scholarship but we’ll only actually accept you if players 50-100 all turn us down.” Self is clearly still going after the top end talent.
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When is $Bill getting the ban hammer? Sean Miller is already cheating at his next job, McBuckets Sr. is picked to win the Big East and 6 Second Pitino is already on year 3 at Iona.
Chicos???
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When is $Bill getting the ban hammer? Sean Miller is already cheating at his next job, McBuckets Sr. is picked to win the Big East and 6 Second Pitino is already on year 3 at Iona.
Chicos???
The FBI has their playbook so it's just a matter of if, not when.
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When is $Bill getting the ban hammer? Sean Miller is already cheating at his next job, McBuckets Sr. is picked to win the Big East and 6 Second Pitino is already on year 3 at Iona.
Chicos???
Same timing as when chicos “drops the other shoe” on Buzz
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Equalizer,
I think your point is fair. But he did have success just this past year with multiple year players. He also wasn’t the only coach in the article. Overall I think it was a good read and pointed toward, in general terms, what Shaka is doing. Nothing more.
I have no complaints about comparisions to Beilein or Bennett as the featured coaches, and would agree that there are similarities to Bennet's and Shaka's approach to recruiting. Bo Ryan would have been a much better source than Bill Self for this article.
Self is just not a good example in this article, nor a good proxy for what Shaka is doing, given that his history has been to agressively court five-star players (~17+ offers per year) and constructs his roster with more than half from the ranks of the top 100 players (average of 6.7 of 13 scholarships). Yes, he may have had some succeful unranked players (6 over 20 years), but those players don't define Kansas success over the years.
If that's their point, they may have well included perspectives of Calipari, Few, Williams and Krzyzewski on how unranked players have contriburted to their success over the years.
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I wouldn't trust Self if he told me which day of the week it was.
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I wouldn't trust Self if he told me which day of the week it was.
$$$-day.
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I wouldn't trust Self if he told me which day of the week it was.
I’d take him at Marquette in a heartbeat
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I’d take him at Marquette in a heartbeat
Maybe, but I seriously don't know how good he'd be if he had to follow the rules.
I could be talked into Self with MU running things like KU. ;)
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Maybe, but I seriously don't know how good he'd be if he had to follow the rules.
I could be talked into Self with MU running things like KU. ;)
Following the rules has gotten us so far.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1587490957896867843?t=x3X3xvz3C1c3WdU8zoICMw&s=19
Jop looks significantly more mobile. Hopefully that helps him on the defensive end. Seems as though being a vocal leader is something he's working on too. Excited for where he could get to with his game.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1587490957896867843?t=x3X3xvz3C1c3WdU8zoICMw&s=19
Jop looks significantly more mobile. Hopefully that helps him on the defensive end. Seems as though being a vocal leader is something he's working on too. Excited for where he could get to with his game.
I'd guess 93%+ of D1 college basketball players could dunk an uncontested breakaway opportunity.
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I'd guess 93%+ of D1 college basketball players could dunk an uncontested breakaway opportunity.
Who cares about the dunk?
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Who cares about the dunk?
I mean, you posted it!
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Who cares about the dunk?
Ners
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I mean, you posted it!
I posted a video.
The post I made had 0 mention of a dunk.
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I posted a video.
The post I made had 0 mention of a dunk.
I mean, you posted the video and your comment on it was that "Jop looks significantly more mobile." Jop could've done that last year, and so could the vast majority of division 1 college basketball players. Maybe Jop is "significantly more mobile." But the video you used to show this was him running in a straight line and dunking it with nobody around him.
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I mean, you posted the video and your comment on it was that "Jop looks significantly more mobile." Jop could've done that last year, and so could the vast majority of division 1 college basketball players. Maybe Jop is "significantly more mobile." But the video you used to show this was him running in a straight line and dunking it with nobody around him.
An uncontested dunk? Sure. Last year they were saying he struggled to get on the court because he was behind in the quickness and conditioning departments. This year we've seen clips of him running out on a fast break, driving past a defender for a reverse dunk, creating his own shots, and leading a defense in deflections. That's mobility he didn't show last year.
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So, he's landing fewer than he did before. Shouldn't we look at offers instead? Self controls how many offers he makes. He has no control over who accepts. Or, at least not anymore.
Did you consider that maybe--just maybe--there were other factors that came about in 2019 that may have hurt Self's ability to land the highest quality players? Hint: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/09/24/bill-self-kansas-ncaa-says-youre-cheater-and-wants-you-out/2426693001/)
Five Star Players offered:
2013: 16 offers, landed 3
2014: 13 offers, landed 2
2015: 18 offers, landed 2
2016: 23 offers, landed 1
2017: 20 offers, landed 1
2018: 20 offers, landed 2
2019: 23 offers, landed 0
2020: 16 offers, landed 1
2021: 14 offers, landed 0
2022: 15 offers, landed 1
2023: 18 offers, landed 0 so far
2024: 14 offers, landed 0 so far
Hmm. For a guy who claims to be most interested in 4- and 3-star players, he certainly offers a lot of five-stars.
And it's interesting that he never really backed off recruiting them. And just coincidentally started landing fewer of them beginning right about the time his name surfaced in the NCAA and FBI investigations into alleged cheating.
And yet, when you look at the hard data, he's still offering five-star players at roughly the same rate he historically has. They just aren't saying yes as frequently as they used to.
It is a puzzlement.
This is really a non-statement--it's kind of like saying coaches prefer players with a bigger wingspan, or a higher vertical leap, or a better shooting touch.
Would Self prefer a player to stay two or three years? Sure. Would he turn down Chet Holmgren in lieu of such a player? Doubtful.
Unless you can find a quote that says Bill Self pulled offers from the likes of Jalen Suggs, Cade Cunningham, Chet Holmgren, Shaedon Sharpe, etc. simply because they were projected to be one-and-dones, then his actions aren't consistent with his words.
I think it would be more accurate to look at players drafted. Kansas under Self clearly has had some very talented players.
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I think it would be more accurate to look at players drafted. Kansas under Self clearly has had some very talented players.
Yep. Like Tyler Self!!
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1588979791348527105?t=DvH0udNGuKepFBBajW3Rzg&s=19
This hype video worked for me. I can't recall the last time I was this excited for a Monday.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1588979791348527105?t=DvH0udNGuKepFBBajW3Rzg&s=19
This hype video worked for me. I can't recall the last time I was this excited for a Monday.
I don't know our D is giving away too many dunks
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1588979791348527105?t=DvH0udNGuKepFBBajW3Rzg&s=19
This hype video worked for me. I can't recall the last time I was this excited for a Monday.
1977
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I know most don't like to look ahead because first and foremost is getting better this year, but someone's gotta do it!
Darryl and Kur will be gone. Justin could very well go pro. Greg has already been in College 5 years, will he want to stay a 6th?
That leaves us with:
1. Stevie (Diminished role as season progresses)
2. Emarion (Limited Role)
3. Joplin (Limited Role)
4. OMax (Diminished role as season progresses)
5. Kolek (Major role)
6. Kam (Major role)
7. Oso (Major role)
8. Keeyan (Redshirt)
Incoming are 2 guards Sean Jones and Chase Ross.
Stevie, Emarion, Kolek, and Jones all are best used as a PG and it's hard to see any of them sharing too much time on the court together. There are some solid returning pieces, but arguably more question marks than this year and of those 10 names only Oso is a real post.
Seems like ever since...you know...let's just say 2014, we've been stuck in an endless cycle of rebuilding.
On the bright side, Justin and Greg could decide to stay and I trust Shaka to often utilize the transfer portal, but for a fanbase desperate to get back to relevance in March this is a reminder to be patient.
Interested to hear some other input. Concerns? Optimism? Encouragement? General thoughts?
Go Marquette!
First the good news Marquette’s 2022 Season mirrored 2020 But there was an NCAA tournament in 2022 and MU made that tournament. In 2024 MU should be gangbusters and win their first NCAA tournament game since the Old Big East. Bad news hope am wrong but MU will take one for the New Big East Conference in 2022-23 which is BS since again MU has not won an NCAA tournament game since the Old Big East. Disclaimer there is a window for MU to get to the Big Dance this year and I am excited for a Monday too.
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On the other end are those (raises hand) who think he could have a breakout season and have more upside than JL. As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Defensively perhaps, but JL was a 24% usage guy as a true frosh & 26% (w/29% %shots) last season.
As a true frosh, OMax has an 18% usage & last season just 16%.
I don’t see it
OMax’s usage at 16%. %shots only 12.8% but that’s impacted by high FTrate. He’ll have a couple of big games, but just not going to be a consistently high usage guy.
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OMax’s usage at 16%. %shots only 12.8% but that’s impacted by high FTrate. He’ll have a couple of big games, but just not going to be a consistently high usage guy.
They don't need OMax to be high usage. They need him to be high energy, high intensity, and a star in his role as Shaka says.
They have enough pieces to put points up. They just have to be stars in their roles to finish games. For OMax that likely means crashing the glass, cut to the rim, active hands and feet on defense.
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Joe Lunardi came out with a bracketology today (which is comical to say the least), but here's what he has as far as MU related teams.
2: Baylor
4: Creighton
6: UConn
7: Xavier
9: Villanova
9: Wisconsin
10: St. John's
10: Mississippi State
12: Seton Hall
Next Four Out: Notre Dame
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I was looking through some kenpom stats and noticed this guy who is starting for 6-0 Ole Miss:
Myles Burns
ORtg: 105.1
OReb: 11.9%
DReb: 13.6%
Stl%: 7.4%
PPG: 7.0
RPG: 6.0
SPG: 3.3
Not great numbers, but certainly a serviceable high-major player contributing to a winning team. So why highlight Burns? Because last year, he was the second best player on his college team. Burns was a great complimentary player on a team that won the NAIA Championship. That team was Loyola-New Orleans, and the best player on his team was Zach Wrightsil.
I have no idea what Wrightsil will do here once he's healthy, but I don't think his ability to contribute will be limited by not being good enough. Because the guy he played with is showing he's good enough to contribute at this level. This leads me to believe that the limitations we're seeing from Wrightsil in terms of movement and production is more down to not being healthy than not being good enough.
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Joe Lunardi came out with a bracketology today (which is comical to say the least), but here's what he has as far as MU related teams.
2: Baylor
4: Creighton
6: UConn
7: Xavier
9: Villanova
9: Wisconsin
10: St. John's
10: Mississippi State
12: Seton Hall
Next Four Out: Notre Dame
Lunardi is like little kids- often funniest when they least intend to be.
I laughed hard when, in an exchange once with BIll Walton on TV, Walton referred to the lower part of Lunardi's bracket and asked why he was dealing with those "truck stop" conferences ;D.
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I was looking through some kenpom stats and noticed this guy who is starting for 6-0 Ole Miss:
Myles Burns
ORtg: 105.1
OReb: 11.9%
DReb: 13.6%
Stl%: 7.4%
PPG: 7.0
RPG: 6.0
SPG: 3.3
Not great numbers, but certainly a serviceable high-major player contributing to a winning team. So why highlight Burns? Because last year, he was the second best player on his college team. Burns was a great complimentary player on a team that won the NAIA Championship. That team was Loyola-New Orleans, and the best player on his team was Zach Wrightsil.
I have no idea what Wrightsil will do here once he's healthy, but I don't think his ability to contribute will be limited by not being good enough. Because the guy he played with is showing he's good enough to contribute at this level. This leads me to believe that the limitations we're seeing from Wrightsil in terms of movement and production is more down to not being healthy than not being good enough.
Maybe. But 1) Ole Miss has played one high major opponent, Stanford. And 2) there are countless cases of where one player is a standout at one level but at a level above that a former teammate is the one who translates much better to the higher level.
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Wrightsil OUT again as anticipated.
Seems like he probably isn't going to get healthy. He'll be playing hurt all season and probably taking some "load management" days all season.
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Wrightsil OUT again as anticipated.
Seems like he probably isn't going to get healthy. He'll be playing hurt all season and probably taking some "load management" days all season.
So he is going to be JFB like?
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Wrightsil OUT again as anticipated.
Seems like he probably isn't going to get healthy. He'll be playing hurt all season and probably taking some "load management" days all season.
Why as anticipated?
Is it too late to injury redshirt😳😵💫
Is it too late to bring in an immediately eligible December dude?
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So he is going to be JFB like?
Probably more Joe Fulce like.
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I want to believe we have a chance on Tuesday, but I just can't get there. Baylor is just so strong.
Mississippi State is the one we needed to have to finish 8-3 or better I think.
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I want to believe we have a chance on Tuesday, but I just can't get there. Baylor is just so strong.
Mississippi State is the one we needed to have to finish 8-3 or better I think.
.
We will see where the program is after this week, both games will be tough, time to win a game against a good team. Last year at this time UCLA came in and it was total blow out.
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BC
This definitely is a good week to judge the progress of the program and we will see what happens. I stated, with confidence, T think they will be competitive with Baylor and have a chance to win the game and will beat UW on Saturday. What are your thoughts on the two upcoming games?
I know I am in the minority on here, but I think this team is further along than they were a year ago. IMO there more pieces to this team and the defense is far advanced over last year.
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Yep. This is kinda a make or break it week for the team. They need to at least go 1-1. They are projected 0.84 wins on KP. 29% chance vs Baylor and 55% vs UW.
Overall, in efficiency and ability, team feels a lot like last year's team. They just have happened to play better teams than we ever played last year. @ Purdue and a on a neutral court vs Miss St. are significantly stronger opponents than home to Kofi-less Illinois. Luckily it looks like Purdue and Miss St are still a little better than even i thought they were in the preseason. Baylor is as strong or stronger than that UCLA too. It is going to take a special offensive performance for Marquette to win. I don't know if they can if Baylor gets Oso into any foul trouble.
We are probably slightly further along than we were last year. The problem is, we don't have the wins, and the wins arn't clearly in sight without going 3-1 to end the the non con. It is possible but we are only projected to go 2.18-1.82. I know shaka didn't really have control in scheduling thus far, but i wish Marquette did a better job scheduling power conference teams/ near power conference teams that we are actually better than.
Like i would love if Marquette scheduled one extra home and home a with one of the teams we played a preseason game against.
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Baylor will be interesting, bigger game for MU, have a chance. Badgers will control the pace which means possessions are important. MU will have to play better in last 5 minutes of the game, not sure they can as of now. Have to be impressed with Gard. Should have beaten Kansas. Essegian can not be left open, reminds of Herro with a better shot, confidence off the charts. Difference maker.
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BC
This definitely is a good week to judge the progress of the program and we will see what happens. I stated, with confidence, T think they will be competitive with Baylor and have a chance to win the game and will beat UW on Saturday. What are your thoughts on the two upcoming games?
I know I am in the minority on here, but I think this team is further along than they were a year ago. IMO there more pieces to this team and the defense is far advanced over last year.
2 completely different challenges. Baylor is just flat out better. UW is better at finding ways to win.
I think Baylor will be a comfortable loss, meaning they pretty much go wire to wire against us. We will probably have a lead against UW at some point, and it will come down to how we finish. Last year we lead shortly after halftime in Madison and just completely folded to their ability to close.
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We will see where the program is after this week, both games will be tough, time to win a game against a good team. Last year at this time UCLA came in and it was total blow out.
After getting blown out by UCLA, and then following with losses in our first three conference games, one might have thought we would have seen where the program was -- and it sure seemed things were in rough shape.
But we ended up having a great January and making the NCAA Tournament despite having gotten blown out by UCLA.
Yep. This is kinda a make or break it week for the team.
Last season, when we went 1-5 from Dec. 4 to Jan. 1, it looked like a make-or-break month for us ... with the verdict being that we were broken.
Until we weren't.
UW is better at finding ways to win.
Unless the opposing coach is Wojo.
Gard and Bo managed to "find ways to win" only 3 times in 7 attempts against The Worst Coach in Basketball History.
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Unless the opposing coach is Wojo.
Gard and Bo managed to "find ways to win" only 3 times in 7 attempts against The Worst Coach in Basketball History.
Yet another proof of God’s existence and the fact that miracles do happen - thanks, Mike!
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After getting blown out by UCLA, and then following with losses in our first three conference games, one might have thought we would have seen where the program was -- and it sure seemed things were in rough shape.
But we ended up having a great January and making the NCAA Tournament despite having gotten blown out by UCLA.
Last season, when we went 1-5 from Dec. 4 to Jan. 1, it looked like a make-or-break month for us ... with the verdict being that we were broken.
Until we weren't.
Unless the opposing coach is Wojo.
Gard and Bo managed to "find ways to win" only 3 times in 7 attempts against The Worst Coach in Basketball History.
And, Bo was so embarrassed he lost, he retired the next day.
I wonder how Zags Scoop is doing today?
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And, Bo was so embarrassed he lost, he retired the next day.
I wonder how Zags Scoop is doing today?
Bo Ryan quit on the badgers after the university conspired against his mistress for him.
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Bo Ryan quit on the badgers after the university conspired against his mistress for him.
Everyone, including his family, knew he was banging tail all over the state. That wasn't enough embarrassment to quit. Losing to Wojo, though? That was not only enough to quit but to high tail it out of the state like Napoleon to Elba.
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Purdue is steamrolling Duke on ABC.
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Purdue is steamrolling Duke on ABC.
Great
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If you sort strictly by this year's data, Marquette is favored to beat Baylor (-1.5), Wisconsin (-4), and at Notre Dame (-9).
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Would love to be wrong but thinking a 15 or so point loss to Baylor and a 5 or so point loss to Wisconsin.
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Would love to be wrong but thinking a 15 or so point loss to Baylor and a 5 or so point loss to Wisconsin.
Right about where I am at as well.
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on the road? sure. at home i think we should expect a bit more than losing by 15. come on people lol we nearly beat a purdue team on the road that will be ranked top ten tommor.
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on the road? sure. at home i think we should expect a bit more than losing by 15. come on people lol we nearly beat a purdue team on the road that will be ranked top ten tommor.
Our pressure caused problems for Purdue in that it took them time to get into their offense and get comfortable looks.
Baylor's 3 best players are Flagler, Cryer, George. 3 guards and they can all light it up from 3 levels. George may just best player we run into all season. They have the athletes to handle the pressure and the shooting to beat the pressure. A win isn't even in the realm of possibilites in my eyes.
I have a touch more hope against UW, but I need to see it to believe it.
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on the road? sure. at home i think we should expect a bit more than losing by 15. come on people lol we nearly beat a purdue team on the road that will be ranked top ten tommor.
For some reason I thought the game was at Baylor. I’ll say 10 point loss tomorrow with it at home.
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For some reason I thought the game was at Baylor. I’ll say 10 point loss tomorrow with it at home.
This is a win
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We got this!
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If you sort strictly by this year's data, Marquette is favored to beat Baylor (-1.5), Wisconsin (-4), and at Notre Dame (-9).
Vegas would lose an awful lot of $ on those lines!
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I have no idea how the games will work out, but I'm gonna go all contrarian and say we beat Baylor and lose to Wisconsin. There is some logic...we've struggled with slower teams, haven't really played a fast team, but I feel Shaka's scheme works best when MU can go full speed.
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Vegas would lose an awful lot of $ on those lines!
The Field of 68 gambling podcast talked about taking advantage of Vegas by looking for large disparities between the raw 2022-23 data and the Vegas lines. There's a lot of baked in data from past years driving lines, especially at this point of the year.
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Our pressure caused problems for Purdue in that it took them time to get into their offense and get comfortable looks.
Baylor's 3 best players are Flagler, Cryer, George. 3 guards and they can all light it up from 3 levels. George may just best player we run into all season. They have the athletes to handle the pressure and the shooting to beat the pressure. A win isn't even in the realm of possibilites in my eyes.
I have a touch more hope against UW, but I need to see it to believe it.
the realm has imploded.
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the realm has imploded.
Love it. That was such a thrashing that a loss to UW would be a back breaker, but I'll temper expectations for now.
I have more confidence that we can actually win against a good team, but Saturday will be a different challenge. The possessions will be limited with UW's pace. New challenge, different challenge, excited to see how the attack it and try to WIN THE DAY.
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Love it. That was such a thrashing that a loss to UW would be a back breaker, but I'll temper expectations for now.
I have more confidence that we can actually win against a good team, but Saturday will be a different challenge. The possessions will be limited with UW's pace. New challenge, different challenge, excited to see how the attack it and try to WIN THE DAY.
After we beat the No. 6 team in the country by 1,000 points, it's comforting to the rest of the board that you have "confidence that we can actually win against a good team."
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GoldenEagle
The Shaka Marquette Warriors set the tempo. MU wins by 10+ on Saturday.
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Yeah, Goose ... the unbeatable Madisonians just lost at home to Wake Forest, giving up 78 in the process. There's nothing wrong with Wake; they look like they have a pretty good team this season, but unbeatable teams don't lose like that at home.
GE03 keeps saying they always find a way to win ... except when they don't. Last season, they practically had a paved road to the Final Four but they couldn't even score 50 against Iowa State. Hell, they weren't even able to find a way to a winning record against Wojo!
I'm with you -- we win Saturday for sure.
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GoldenEagle
The Shaka Marquette Warriors set the tempo. MU wins by 10+ on Saturday.
I agree with this Goose, MU will set and force the tempo against both Wisconsin and ND. Both are as beatable as they will ever be and we may be as good and deep as we have been in some time. Looking forward to both games.
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GoldenEagle
The Shaka Marquette Warriors set the tempo. MU wins by 10+ on Saturday.
I hope so!
When all else fails that's usually what UW is best at. Their offensive numbers are horrible, like absolutely atrocious, but they are in every game.
I look forward to our defense just causing absolute chaos.
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I have no idea how the games will work out, but I'm gonna go all contrarian and say we beat Baylor and lose to Wisconsin. There is some logic...we've struggled with slower teams, haven't really played a fast team, but I feel Shaka's scheme works best when MU can go full speed.
I'll take the blame. Best that ya'll have a fall guy.
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I'll take the blame. Best that ya'll have a fall guy.
Nice to take one for the team but tempo wasn't really an issue today.
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Nice to take one for the team but tempo wasn't really an issue today.
Unless I'm reading Kenpom wrong, we lost both Purdue and MSU in 66 possession games. Today we lost in an OT 69 possession game. We did win (BIG!) against Baylor in a 69 possession regulation game (our slowest win of the year).
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https://twitter.com/jgtrends/status/1599784912185196545?t=nXVeQdzV18l2qwLWRe-q5g&s=19
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I lose track. Is this good news or bad news to you and did you predict it?
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From my Twitter thread:
In his first 36 games for #mubb, Kam Jones shot 21 free throws w 254 field goal attempts, a miserable 8.7% free throw rate.
In his last 4 games, Jones shot 17 FTs w 45 FGA. That 37.8% FTR would've ranked top-10 in the Big East last year. Amazing improvement by Kam & the staff.
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The impact on his offensive rating also seems to benefit. 19 of Kam's 20 FTA came in 5 games, all w multiple FTA. Just 1 FT in the other 4 games. The difference in staggering in AdjORtg.
2+ FTs: 108, 136, 137, 145, 165 (19.8 ppg)
0-1 FTs: 72, 89, 98, 101 (10.0 ppg)
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When Kam attacks, which the staff clearly wants him to do, he's an efficiency & scoring monster. Check his shooting as well:
2+ FTs: 70.3 eFG% / 48.7 3PFG%
0-1 FTs: 39.2 eFG% / 19.2 3PFG%
It's small sample size, but when Kam is attacking, he gets Howard-level video game stats.
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Kam has definitely shown better shot selection over the last few games. Probing the defense, driving to the basket, and taking open 3s when they come.
No longer forcing 25+ footers.
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Kam has definitely shown better shot selection over the last few games. Probing the defense, driving to the basket, and taking open 3s when they come.
No longer forcing 25+ footers.
He keeps doing this, MU better be ready to pay the man. Don’t need to be a farm system for blue bloods.
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He keeps doing this, MU better be ready to pay the man. Don’t need to be a farm system for blue bloods.
Already know there are contacts, offers, he GOWNE
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A new article from Steele today.
Marquette's Keeyan Itejere patiently waiting until he can make the leap to contributor (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/12/09/marquette-redshirt-freshman-keeyan-itejere-has-40-inch-vertical/69710384007/)
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A new article from Steele today.
Marquette's Keeyan Itejere patiently waiting until he can make the leap to contributor (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/12/09/marquette-redshirt-freshman-keeyan-itejere-has-40-inch-vertical/69710384007/)
Nice article. Hope he continues to get stronger and develop his basketball skills.
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A new article from Steele today.
Marquette's Keeyan Itejere patiently waiting until he can make the leap to contributor (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2022/12/09/marquette-redshirt-freshman-keeyan-itejere-has-40-inch-vertical/69710384007/)
Not many kids like Keeyan anymore that are willing to see things through when playing time isn't there. That's how winners are built. If he's a contributor it'll be because he earned it and he has some great skills. Excited to see him continue to develop.
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Shaka has said multiple times that Keeyan is in year 2 of a 5 year plan. The kid is so athletic. Been described by his teammates as the decathlete of the team. Yes, I think we all would like for him to be able to give us more this season. Ah, well.
Keep up the hard work and positivity, young man.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl9B1mhgjlA/?igshid=MTg0ZDhmNDA=
The days of Oso going unnoticed are over. He's going to start showing up on draft radars. Enjoy him while we can!
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl9B1mhgjlA/?igshid=MTg0ZDhmNDA=
The days of Oso going unnoticed are over. He's going to start showing up on draft radars. Enjoy him while we can!
Some of the NBA draft guys on Twitter had Oso on their deep sleeper list heading into the season.
Right now, Oso's complete lack of a jumpshot is holding down his draft stock. Otherwise he might already be showing up on 2nd round mocks.
Coleman Hawkins of Illinois (and one time Marquette target) has a lot of the same skills that Oso has and Hawkins is starting to show up as an early 2nd pick in several mocks. But Hawkins has made 11 threes on 34.4% shooting, which is just enough to make him draftable.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl9B1mhgjlA/?igshid=MTg0ZDhmNDA=
The days of Oso going unnoticed are over. He's going to start showing up on draft radars. Enjoy him while we can!
Among the commenters in that Insta thread: Oso and Akanno.
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Nobody is looking for a 6'9" guy who has yet to shoot a 3 pointer in his career, can't score outside 5 feet, and is shooting 36% from the free throw line. He has a couple years to develop his game, but he will not be on any NBA draft boards this year.
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Oso does a lot of great things. Until he has range on his jumper, the NBA doesn't care. So let us enjoy his development.
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Oso also has a baby usage rate
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Nobody is looking for a 6'9" guy who has yet to shoot a 3 pointer in his career, can't score outside 5 feet, and is shooting 36% from the free throw line. He has a couple years to develop his game, but he will not be on any NBA draft boards this year.
And not big enough to be a rim protecting center.
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Some of the NBA draft guys on Twitter had Oso on their deep sleeper list heading into the season.
Right now, Oso's complete lack of a jumpshot is holding down his draft stock. Otherwise he might already be showing up on 2nd round mocks.
Given Shaka's publicly stated encouragement of 3-point attempts, it's odd that Oso has never attempted one over his career to date. You would think at some point he'd have been curious and let one fly.
He came to MU with a reputation as a decent 3-point and midrange shooter
https://247sports.com/player/osasere-ighodaro-46083527/ (https://247sports.com/player/osasere-ighodaro-46083527/)
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Waiting for a Theo John-like 3 pt outburst.
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He gets a jumper and sky's the limit for him. Surprised he hasn’t developed one and is shooting poorly from the FT line this year.
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Oso does a lot of great things. Until he has range on his jumper, the NBA doesn't care. So let us enjoy his development.
to get range on that jumper, he needs a jumper. Perplexing to me the lack of range.
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The craziest part is that he was a good shooter with a good shot in high school. He never hesitated to shoot it either, but didn't shoot too much because it was so easy for him to get to the rim. Not sure how he lost his shot.
https://youtu.be/8Z2068pEULU
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The craziest part is that he was a good shooter with a good shot in high school. He never hesitated to shoot it either, but didn't shoot too much because it was so easy for him to get to the rim. Not sure how he lost his shot.
https://youtu.be/8Z2068pEULU
Maybe he should go back to high school
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Not many kids like Keeyan anymore that are willing to see things through when playing time isn't there. That's how winners are built. If he's a contributor it'll be because he earned it and he has some great skills. Excited to see him continue to develop.
“Itejere shares the program record with a 36.5 standing vertical jump”. Is that with Dominic? Crazy, add 10 inches to James!
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Among the commenters in that Insta thread: Oso and Akanno.
Jose Perez jumping in too.
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Maybe he should go back to high school
The competition isn't the point, the jump shot is.
His jumper in high school looked really smooth. His shot now looks broken. Maybe just outgrew his touch.
I'm perfectly fine with his current production but he could sling it in HS.
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The competition isn't the point, the jump shot is.
His jumper in high school looked really smooth. His shot now looks broken. Maybe just outgrew his touch.
I'm perfectly fine with his current production but he could sling it in HS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q0rSbR80GQk
This was the level of competition oso played in hs
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The competition isn't the point, the jump shot is.
His jumper in high school looked really smooth. His shot now looks broken. Maybe just outgrew his touch.
I'm perfectly fine with his current production but he could sling it in HS.
Of course the competition is the point. It’s taller and faster. Speeds players up and they can’t adjust.
The list of players who shot well in high school but struggle at this level is a very long one. Oso is no different.
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He shot free throws better last season. His form and tempo look different than I remember, but I did not keep any games on DVR so that I can confirm.
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He shot free throws better last season. His form and tempo look different than I remember, but I did not keep any games on DVR so that I can confirm.
Search YouTube bro
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Oso does a lot of great things. Until he has range on his jumper, the NBA doesn't care. So let us enjoy his development.
The NBA might not care, tower, but that doesn't mean Oso will stick around next season so we fans can continue to enjoy his development.
I hope he stays and I have absolutely no information suggesting he won't. But one thing we've all learned is that Scoop will occasionally by surprised by one of our guys leaving before his eligibility expires despite having no NBA potential.
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Of course the competition is the point. It’s taller and faster. Speeds players up and they can’t adjust.
The list of players who shot well in high school but struggle at this level is a very long one. Oso is no different.
I recall Matt Heldt shooting threes in high school. Oso isn't the first nor the last.
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I recall Matt Heldt shooting threes in high school. Oso isn't the first nor the last.
The Ice Cream Man hit a big half court bomb in college tho
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Of course the competition is the point. It’s taller and faster. Speeds players up and they can’t adjust.
The list of players who shot well in high school but struggle at this level is a very long one. Oso is no different.
insert Terry Reason
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Some of the NBA draft guys on Twitter had Oso on their deep sleeper list heading into the season.
Right now, Oso's complete lack of a jumpshot is holding down his draft stock. Otherwise he might already be showing up on 2nd round mocks.
Coleman Hawkins of Illinois (and one time Marquette target) has a lot of the same skills that Oso has and Hawkins is starting to show up as an early 2nd pick in several mocks. But Hawkins has made 11 threes on 34.4% shooting, which is just enough to make him draftable.
This is mostly true... as a college basketball player, this year, Oso is better. He's faced tougher players defensively. And Oso plays within himself better on offense. Higher eFG%. Oso has a stupid high A/TO.
Coleman Hawkins is likely more draftable due to his three point percentage and by being nearly as good defender but I don't know if NBA teams won't be sold on Hawkins shot until his Free throw shooting gets better. My guess is he will be a backhalf of the 2nd round guy. Hasn't gotten off to a good enough start.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q0rSbR80GQk
This was the level of competition oso played in hs
The level of competition you play doesn't change the form of your shot.
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The level of competition you play doesn't change the form of your shot.
Does your form look better when you’re 6 inches taller than everyone else and have four seconds to get set or when everyone is around the same height and you have 1ish seconds to get a clean look?
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Does your form look better when you’re 6 inches taller than everyone else and have four seconds to get set or when everyone is around the same height and you have 1ish seconds to get a clean look?
Exactly.
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Does your form look better when you’re 6 inches taller than everyone else and have four seconds to get set or when everyone is around the same height and you have 1ish seconds to get a clean look?
His form is just completely different. He lost his shooting touch and his jumper in high school just looked better.
If he was in a gym all by himself his jumper would look different now than it did back then.
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I can't find his high school team's full stats, but they list the top 3 players in each category. Their 3rd best three point shooter shot 33% from 3. So Oso was somewhere below that at the high school level (which is also a closer 3 point shot than the college level). Let's not act like he was a sniper.
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His form is just completely different. He lost his shooting touch and his jumper in high school just looked better.
If he was in a gym all by himself his jumper would look different now than it did back then.
<sigh>
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I can't find his high school team's full stats, but they list the top 3 players in each category. Their 3rd best three point shooter shot 33% from 3. So Oso was somewhere below that at the high school level (which is also a closer 3 point shot than the college level). Let's not act like he was a sniper.
I don't care about numbers. I'm talking about just how his shot looks. Even his free throws look different than last year.
If you want numbers that back that up, last year he was 31-42 from the line and this year he is 8-22. Already more misses than last year in 20 less attempts.
I assume he just hasn't worked on shooting at all which is why he's lost the touch. He's good at a lot of other things so nothing to complain about, but just weird to see a guys shot completely change.
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His form is just completely different. He lost his shooting touch and his jumper in high school just looked better.
If he was in a gym all by himself his jumper would look different now than it did back then.
(https://media.tenor.com/Wk7-YB9GIqwAAAAd/insanely-idiotic-things-ive-ever-heard.gif)
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Emarion Ellis had his knee surgery 4 months ago. Theoretically, he should be allowed to start cardio, conditioning, etc. shortly.
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Previous post moved to correct thread
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Emarion Ellis had his knee surgery 4 months ago. Theoretically, he should be allowed to start cardio, conditioning, etc. shortly.
That doesn't sound as if he'd be ready to contribute any meaningful minutes any time soon, and it's already mid-Dec.
Is he going to burn a year of eligibility?
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That doesn't sound as if he'd be ready to contribute any meaningful minutes any time soon, and it's already mid-Dec.
Is he going to burn a year of eligibility?
No
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The only way I see EE playing this season is if (A) his recovery is rapid and complete and (B) there is a spate of injuries and the team is extremely shorthanded.
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OMax is in the 98th percentile in And 1's per 40 minutes.
https://twitter.com/CBBAnalytics/status/1606304025934274561?t=9XwDLA3ZtJ8zgI4QfpLo5Q&s=19
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The only way I see EE playing this season is if (A) his recovery is rapid and complete and (B) there is a spate of injuries and the team is extremely shorthanded.
Still using crutches in Prov. - not this year.
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Still using crutches in Prov. - not this year.
Hey, lotsa Scoopers say we need someone who can come through in the crutch.
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Still using crutches in Prov. - not this year.
Cam is on crutches. I haven't seen EE on them at FF recently. In fact, I think he is on for individuals during break.
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The NBA might not care, tower, but that doesn't mean Oso will stick around next season so we fans can continue to enjoy his development.
I hope he stays and I have absolutely no information suggesting he won't. But one thing we've all learned is that Scoop will occasionally by surprised by one of our guys leaving before his eligibility expires despite having no NBA potential.
It will not be a surprise but leaving with no NBA potential describes Omax.
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I get kick out of thinking Oso or Omax are ready for the next level, must be Europe.
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I get kick out of thinking Oso or Omax are ready for the next level, must be Europe.
1. Name one Scooper who has said that either is "ready"?
2. Why do you get a kick out of it?
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1. Name one Scooper who has said that either is "ready"?
2. Why do you get a kick out of it?
To mention either of them being ready for the NBA right now is ridiculous. Oso
May never be ready, what position would he play in the pros? Omax is to inconsistent right now, more seasoning needed which is good for MU for next year
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To mention either of them being ready for the NBA right now is ridiculous. Oso
May never be ready, what position would he play in the pros? Omax is to inconsistent right now, more seasoning needed which is good for MU for next year
Again … who said either was “ready for the NBA right now”?
Why do you keep creating a strawman - just so you can be outraged?
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https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/1605739528093736962?s=61&t=htPORpWDk855kf8FcGLtsQ
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https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/1605739528093736962?s=61&t=htPORpWDk855kf8FcGLtsQ
Has Fran ever posted on scoop?
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Has Fran ever posted on scoop?
O2NBA, I'm Fran!
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I am Fran
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When it comes to Oso and the NBA, it is best to respect the process. Scoopers wanted him to the add the 15’ jumper in the offseason….more likely he steps out to the 3 than develops a 15’ to 17’ jumper in this offense.
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I am Fran
Fraudster, my middle name is Francisco.
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Did you live on 9th floor of Tower in 86-87?
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Did you live on 9th floor of Tower in 86-87?
Me? No, 79-83 Schroeder 2 years 4th floor, the crazies
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I had a floormate on 9th floor Tower 86-87 who was Puerto Rican and named Francisco. I thought I would check.
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I had a floormate on 9th floor Tower 86-87 who was Puerto Rican and named Francisco. I thought I would check.
Cool but Francisco is my middle name. But nice to know. I'll check next MU reunion here.
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Me? No, 79-83 Schroeder 2 years 4th floor, the crazies
4N or 4S?
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4N or 4S?
4N
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https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/1605739528093736962?s=61&t=htPORpWDk855kf8FcGLtsQ
Fraschilla in that twit: "Marquette's Oso Ighadaro will make a team -- some day."
That's a good example of someone who is unaware that "someday" is one word.
What it's NOT is a good example of someone saying that Oso is "ready for the NBA right now" -- which is what BCHoopster keeps claiming Scoopers are saying.
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4N
I was 4S in 66-67 and 67-68. Bill Walton called us the wing of champions.
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I was 4S in 66-67 and 67-68. Bill Walton called us the wing of champions.
4th floor was put on notice by administration my freshman year, only made us go harder.
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I am Fran
Not going to doxx anyone, but there actually is a Fran who posts here.
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I was 4S in 66-67 and 67-68. Bill Walton called us the wing of champions.
7 S '66-67 for me. Schoeder was never a boring place.
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6N - the Six Pack. 63 - 64, 64 - 65. Second year they were adding 9 & 10.
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Not going to doxx anyone, but there actually is a Fran who posts here.
Fran Dunphy
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Kukla Fran and Ollie, hey?
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Updated the year to keep this thread alive rather than start a new one.
G- Tyler Kolek(RS-Jr), Sean Jones(So)
G- Stevie Mitchell(Jr), Tre Norman(Fr), Emarion Ellis(RS-So)
G- Kam Jones(Jr), Chase Ross(So), Zaide Lowery(Fr)
F- Olivier-Maxence Prosper(RS-Jr), David Joplin(Jr), Al Amadou(Fr)
F- Oso Ighodaro(RS-Jr), Ben Gold(So), Keeyan Itejere(RS-So)
We are 1 over the limit as it stands.
Key NBA Draft Dates:
NBA Early Entry Deadline: April 23rd
NBA Draft Combine: May 15-21
NBA Draft Lottery: May 16th
NCAA Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline: May 31st
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Kukla Fran and Ollie, hey?
Was a terrible TV show. Always had to suffer through that back in the day on Sundays waiting for The NFL to come on the TV.
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Oso made his first social media post since the seasons end.
David Joplin commented: "Bag Emoji" soon.
Everyone has a dream to play at the highest level and no question his teammates know he is a guy that could collect 'a bag' as they say, at some point. No question Oso is on the fringe of that level. Fully expect him to enter his name in the draft while maintaining eligibility and he'll have a choice very very similar to Justin's from last year.
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Oso made his first social media post since the seasons end.
David Joplin commented: "Bag Emoji" soon.
Everyone has a dream to play at the highest level and no question his teammates know he is a guy that could collect 'a bag' as they say, at some point. No question Oso is on the fringe of that level. Fully expect him to enter his name in the draft while maintaining eligibility and he'll have a choice very very similar to Justin's from last year.
He gowne. Next man up, aina?
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Oso made his first social media post since the seasons end.
David Joplin commented: "Bag Emoji" soon.
Everyone has a dream to play at the highest level and no question his teammates know he is a guy that could collect 'a bag' as they say, at some point. No question Oso is on the fringe of that level. Fully expect him to enter his name in the draft while maintaining eligibility and he'll have a choice very very similar to Justin's from last year.
What social media was this on? Mind linking?
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What social media was this on? Mind linking?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CqJMxUVvvD4/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Hopefully that works.
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He gowne. Next man up, aina?
There goes next season
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There goes next season
It’s over unless we get big guys that bang
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It’s over unless we get big guys that bang
I'm quite confident he tests the waters but interested to see what advice he gets. He can't shoot, Justin could. Also Justin is significantly more built.
Oso is good and has a place but he may need more developing. Will be interesting to see what advice he gets this year after NBA workouts.
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I'm quite confident he tests the waters but interested to see what advice he gets. He can't shoot, Justin could. Also Justin is significantly more built.
Oso is good and has a place but he may need more developing. Will be interesting to see what advice he gets this year after NBA workouts.
He’s gowne. I’ll be cheering against him
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Trust the process.
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Looking forward to more emoji analysis over the next couple of months.
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Looking forward to more emoji analysis over the next couple of months.
Everything kids post today has meaning. Everything.
Whether Oso goes pro or not remains to be seen, but they all know he's on the fringe. No secret.
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Looking forward to more emoji analysis over the next couple of months.
♋️ 4️⃣2️⃣0️⃣ 🕯️🪴 💦🍆
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Everything kids post today has meaning. Everything.
Whether Oso goes pro or not remains to be seen, but they all know he's on the fringe. No secret.
I want to see your emoji analysis certification.
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♋️ 4️⃣2️⃣0️⃣ 🕯️🪴 💦🍆
Holy sh*t.
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I want to see your emoji analysis certification.
👨💻📃🥇
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I wish him well. Shaka was hired to make the guys better people and better basketball players and I think Oso was a double success.
Not going to worry one second about who is back, with exception of Omax, and have little doubt there are guys to fill roles. As a matter a fact, not going to worry about Omax coming back.
Getting players, and more talented players, is on Shaka. I would not bet against him.
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I wish him well. Shaka was hired to make the guys better people and better basketball players and I think Oso was a double success.
Not going to worry one second about who is back, with exception of Omax, and have little doubt there are guys to fill roles. As a matter a fact, not going to worry about Omax coming back.
Getting players, and more talented players, is on Shaka. I would not bet against him.
Oh I'm not doubting Shaka at all.
I am however more convinced OMax is leaving for the NBA than Oso but wouldn't be surprised with both. It sure as heck would be nice to be a surefire Top 5 team to start the season but maybe it is in our cards to have to earn it every year.
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Can not wait for Oso to guard Jokic or Lopez!
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What am I missing? Why does that Oso post mean he is gone? Looks like he's just reflecting on the past season.
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Golden
As I mentioned earlier this week that I refrained from making comments that were not positive during the season and the season is over. The good Oso was very good and entertaining to watch and I enjoyed it. That said, there are type of players I would prefer. Same holds true with Omax.
I told my sons during the game at Butler when Omax did not close out a dunk on potential three play, that down the road MU will have a version of Omax that would have buried thd dunk.
I might have blind faith, but I think MU will continue to have better type players to fit Shaka’s style than we did this year. This year was not a fluke and the guys delivered, just think there will be better guys to fit the system as time moves on.
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With Oso gone, who do you think Shaka will recruit in the portal? I hope it’s a banger, preferably an aircraft carrier
Will you cheer for Oso at the next level or will you tell him not to let the door hit you on the way out? I won’t cheer for him but I can’t speak for anyone else.
Was Oso even much of a contributor anyway? No. He took minutes from Gold, IMO. His head was often in his rectal region
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With Oso gone, who do you think Shaka will recruit in the portal? I hope it’s a banger, preferably an aircraft carrier
Will you cheer for Oso at the next level or will you tell him not to let the door hit you on the way out? I won’t cheer for him but I can’t speak for anyone else.
Was Oso even much of a contributor anyway? No. He took minutes from Gold, IMO. His head was often in his rectal region
WTF is this?
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Golden
As I mentioned earlier this week that I refrained from making comments that were not positive during the season and the season is over. The good Oso was very good and entertaining to watch and I enjoyed it. That said, there are type of players I would prefer. Same holds true with Omax.
I told my sons during the game at Butler when Omax did not close out a dunk on potential three play, that down the road MU will have a version of Omax that would have buried thd dunk.
I might have blind faith, but I think MU will continue to have better type players to fit Shaka’s style than we did this year. This year was not a fluke and the guys delivered, just think there will be better guys to fit the system as time moves on.
If they are both gone I expect Shaka to fill their spots with similar players and bodies.
It will be noticeable on the court without both of them though if they are gone. Maybe the 2 most irreplaceable players in the lineup.
The way their size and skills meshed with the rest is incredibly hard to find.
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To take a step back from the idiocy and put my own serious hat on for a second - oso and omax will both go through the draft process without hiring an agent. I doubt either of them stay in.
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To take a step back from the idiocy and put my own serious hat on for a second - oso and omax will both go through the draft process without hiring an agent. I doubt either of them stay in.
I thought that about Justin last year.
I agree with you on the 1st part about going through the process. Will be interesting to see in the coming days what names Marquette talks with. Might give us a pretty good idea.
I still think OMax is gonna go and Oso is a maybe. Hope they are both back though!
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Golden
There was a nice number of scoopers that did not think MU could win with Oso and Omax this season. Both had their great moments and not so great moments. Of course they would be missed if they did not return, but college ball has changed.
Zero concern that if Shaka has spots to be filled, they will be filled. Plus, there are going to be a lot of guys to recruit from the portal. I firmly believe MU will field a more talented team next year, regardless who is in the roster.
Only wild card is team chemistry and buy in and I do not think that can be replicated, even if the whole team returned. It was special team year and it will be again next season, just different.
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panda
I would have agreed completely a couple of years ago and no longer understand the decision making of college kids. I would not be shocked if you were correct or if one or both gave it a whirl.
I think we will know quickly depending on the portal activity shown by Shaka. He cannot sit on his hands and wait for these guys to decide, imo. He felt he had guys to replace Lewis and he was right. He flat out does not have guys to fill those roles with current roster.
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One emoji comment and we're replacing two starters. Tremendous work, Scoopers.
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Golden
There was a nice number of scoopers that did not think MU could win with Oso and Omax this season. Both had their great moments and not so great moments. Of course they would be missed if they did not return, but college ball has changed.
Zero concern that if Shaka has spots to be filled, they will be filled. Plus, there are going to be a lot of guys to recruit from the portal. I firmly believe MU will field a more talented team next year, regardless who is in the roster.
Only wild card is team chemistry and buy in and I do not think that can be replicated, even if the whole team returned. It was special team year and it will be again next season, just different.
I have confidence in Shaka to replace talent but I think you’re underestimating how much losing one or both of those guys would hurt.
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One emoji comment and we're replacing two starters. Tremendous work, Scoopers.
It’s 3. Memphis has that NIP deal for Cam
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It’s 3. Memphis has that NIP deal for Cam
Someone check Gold’s socials for any kiwi emojis. The fruit counts. 🥝
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Mufan12
I fully expect that MU will be replacing a starter, or more, and just having conversation. Time will tell. If Oso is indeed testing the waters, which time will tell, I would expect any other exit to follow in short order. Easier to do things after first guy makes announcements.
Vander
I have said all year that MU will have more talented teams in the future because I believe Shaka made the most of the team two years in a row. Imo, I want to see what he does with team full of dudes. From what I heard this year, it sounded like Shaka had one, Chase Ross.
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m
Someone check Gold’s socials for any kiwi emojis. The fruit counts. 🥝
We can replace him with that white kid from Brookfield
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Rico
That would be my first choice. Good character kid. Not an aircraft carrier, but I am good with that. Is he a lefty? I want Shaka to only bring in lefty players from the portal.
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Rico
That would be my first choice. Good character kid. Not an aircraft carrier, but I am good with that. Is he a lefty? I want Shaka to only bring in lefty players from the portal.
I think he’s amphibious
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Rico
That I want to see, even if a wasted scholarship.
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Jop’s emoji was a briefcase with a “soon” emoji after it. Not the moneybag emoji.
Seems they’re going to work soon.
After all, college kids’ posts always mean something. Always.
Oso is graduating in May and going to work in finance.
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It’s 3. Memphis has that NIP deal for Cam
I’ll be honest, if I were Kam I’d rather have a NIP deal than a NIL deal. However I think you have your schools mixed up. I think Louisville is the one with NIP deals.
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I’ll be honest, if I were Kam I’d rather have a NIP deal than a NIL deal. However I think you have your schools mixed up. I think Louisville is the one with NIP deals.
I stand by my post
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My interpretation of those emojis is “work soon.” As in, these guys are ready to get back to work. #donedeal
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My interpretation of those emojis is “work soon.” As in, these guys are ready to get back to work. #donedeal
#donedeal?
So Oso will actually go pro and then come back 7 years later?
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My interpretation of those emojis is “work soon.” As in, these guys are ready to get back to work. #donedeal
I agree with this analysis.
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I think he’s amphibious
That should help the next time the Providence court melts from under us.
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WTF is this?
It is what is commonly referred to as satire.
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I believe the coaching staff is expecting everybody back next year based on a brief conversation I had with someone who would be very in the know. Speculating on all of the following: My guess is that either one of the incoming recruits goes to prep school, or we see Keeyan transfer out, though I wonder if Ellis will be the same player after his knee injury. Watching him in pre-game warmups he didn't have much explosion on his dunk attempts. Like barely was able to dunk going off of two-feet which I thought was pretty surprising.
I know Shaka loves him and he is highly regarded in the MU community - just wonder if there might be an Ike Eke type of situation there.
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The more I think about it, I am almost certain Shaka knows who is staying or not and that is all that matters. If he is active in a one year portal guy it might mean something. If a key guy was planning on leaving, I would be surprised if he was not replaced with a portal player.
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O-Max would be difficult but not impossible to replace via the portal. Same with Kam.
Oso would be extremely difficult to replace unless we changed our offense quite a bit because there probably isn't another 6-9 player in the country with his skill set, let alone one who would be available in the portal.
Hopefully, none of them will have to be replaced.
I tend to agree with those who don't think Shaka will be taken by surprise because he already has a very good idea who, if anyone, is leaving.
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Oso is a very unique center that I have seen this year. Most centers are big and just set picks. Not very coordinated compared to Oso who is very athletic. To lose him whenever he leaves, will be a challenge for Shaka to replace. He adds a little more to his game, 10 more pounds, and he might be a All-American.
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O-Max would be difficult but not impossible to replace via the portal. Same with Kam.
Oso would be extremely difficult to replace unless we changed our offense quite a bit because there probably isn't another 6-9 player in the country with his skill set, let alone one who would be available in the portal.
Hopefully, none of them will have to be replaced.
I tend to agree with those who don't think Shaka will be taken by surprise because he already has a very good idea who, if anyone, is leaving.
I’ve heard from reliable sources Cam is on the first thing smoking out of Milwaukee
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I’ve heard from reliable sources Cam is on the first thing smoking out of Milwaukee
But not Kam?
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I believe the coaching staff is expecting everybody back next year based on a brief conversation I had with someone who would be very in the know. Speculating on all of the following: My guess is that either one of the incoming recruits goes to prep school, or we see Keeyan transfer out, though I wonder if Ellis will be the same player after his knee injury. Watching him in pre-game warmups he didn't have much explosion on his dunk attempts. Like barely was able to dunk going off of two-feet which I thought was pretty surprising.
I know Shaka loves him and he is highly regarded in the MU community - just wonder if there might be an Ike Eke type of situation there.
Has anyone whispered in Marquette1977’s ear? I won’t believe anything until that.
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https://twitter.com/Aries_Sherrie/status/1639299416254291971?t=djOGFF8_4DSWW0zytdQkAA&s=19
From Sean Jones mother just now on Twitter.
Sean going into surgery for a ruptured tendon.
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https://twitter.com/Aries_Sherrie/status/1639299416254291971?t=djOGFF8_4DSWW0zytdQkAA&s=19
From Sean Jones mother just now on Twitter.
Sean going into surgery for a ruptured tendon.
Had to have been his injury earlier, and he played through that for the last third of the season.
Tough kid.
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Had to have been his injury earlier, and he played through that for the last third of the season.
Tough kid.
And Scoopers were wondering why his shot was flat...
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Yikes, that's a bummer. Hope his recovery is quick and he can develop his game this offseason.
I hope what Ners is hearing is right. I hope this team runs it back and feels like it has some unfinished business. I hope Jop and Oso take the briefcase to work early and often this offseason, as well as other guys on the team.
I'd love to see Oso develop a constant attack mode mindset. Hit the weight room and dominate in the paint. He's obviously not the Giannis of college basketball, but he's guarded as though he's Giannis. If his defender is laying off of him to close passing lanes, put the ball on the deck and make a poster. Would love to see him get called for charges regularly, it'd mean he's being aggressive.
Hope guys like OMax and Sean Jones keep their dribble going into the lane, and develop a secondary move off of the straight line drive.
Also hope Stevie and OMax shoot thousands of catch and shoot 3 pointers and become consistent threats, just off of catch and shoot. They'll get their opportunities. If they can knock those down it takes the team to another level.
I hope everyone gets into the weight room hard this offseason. That's what stands out to me the most in watching the teams still playing. A lot of our guys look like college athletes. A lot of guys still playing look like grown men. I thought we got some decent attempts at the rim against MSU, but weren't physical enough to finish through contact.
I'd like to see the offense develop a few more set plays to get guys like Joplin open looks when the offense bogs down.
Brutal way to end the season, but overall the season was the most enjoyable season in my adult life. I think there's decent room for growth. Excited to see how these kids come back next season.
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With Oso gone, who do you think Shaka will recruit in the portal? I hope it’s a banger, preferably an aircraft carrier
Will you cheer for Oso at the next level or will you tell him not to let the door hit you on the way out? I won’t cheer for him but I can’t speak for anyone else.
Was Oso even much of a contributor anyway? No. He took minutes from Gold, IMO. His head was often in his rectal region
Hopefully Shaka is analyzing the talent pool in Madison to fill any voids. 👀
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Hopefully Shaka is analyzing the talent pool in Madison to fill any voids. 👀
I’d love to have Carter Gilmore. He’s exactly what we need, a bonking big
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I’d love to have Carter Gilmore. He’s exactly what we need, a bonking big
I thought we needed a banging big. Even two banging bigs.
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Yikes, that's a bummer. Hope his recovery is quick and he can develop his game this offseason.
I hope what Ners is hearing is right. I hope this team runs it back and feels like it has some unfinished business. I hope Jop and Oso take the briefcase to work early and often this offseason, as well as other guys on the team.
I'd love to see Oso develop a constant attack mode mindset. Hit the weight room and dominate in the paint. He's obviously not the Giannis of college basketball, but he's guarded as though he's Giannis. If his defender is laying off of him to close passing lanes, put the ball on the deck and make a poster. Would love to see him get called for charges regularly, it'd mean he's being aggressive.
Hope guys like OMax and Sean Jones keep their dribble going into the lane, and develop a secondary move off of the straight line drive.
Also hope Stevie and OMax shoot thousands of catch and shoot 3 pointers and become consistent threats, just off of catch and shoot. They'll get their opportunities. If they can knock those down it takes the team to another level.
I hope everyone gets into the weight room hard this offseason. That's what stands out to me the most in watching the teams still playing. A lot of our guys look like college athletes. A lot of guys still playing look like grown men. I thought we got some decent attempts at the rim against MSU, but weren't physical enough to finish through contact.
I'd like to see the offense develop a few more set plays to get guys like Joplin open looks when the offense bogs down.
Brutal way to end the season, but overall the season was the most enjoyable season in my adult life. I think there's decent room for growth. Excited to see how these kids come back next season.
I love this post Wades. You covered a wide range of topics and the only comment I disagree with is your hoping that Oso gets called for charging (even though it would be due to his aggressiveness). I remember the look on his face (as well as Kolek's and Joplin's) sitting on the bench near the end of the UCONN BET game. I thought we were screwed and UCONN would build just enough of a lead to win while they sat, but so glad I was proven wrong. But again- loved what you wrote.
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I thought we needed a banging big. Even two banging bigs.
That’s right. Scratch him off the list
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There’s a reason I don’t post on this board anymore, but did we all just forget Oso’s own words from *checks notes* 5 days ago?
https://twitter.com/muwiresports/status/1637621104339566593?s=46&t=x7EI4kEGy_wK6z3tI_7ZgA
A teammate posts one emoji and suddenly we’ve lost 2 starters? Trolling, genuine chicken little’ing, doesn’t matter. This board is the worst far too often.
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There’s a reason I don’t post on this board anymore, but did we all just forget Oso’s own words from *checks notes* 5 days ago?
https://twitter.com/muwiresports/status/1637621104339566593?s=46&t=x7EI4kEGy_wK6z3tI_7ZgA
A teammate posts one emoji and suddenly we’ve lost 2 starters? Trolling, genuine chicken little’ing, doesn’t matter. This board is the worst far too often.
Agreed. Also, keep posting to balance things out
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wades
Great post. We all are hoping for the same thing.
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There’s a reason I don’t post on this board anymore, but did we all just forget Oso’s own words from *checks notes* 5 days ago?
https://twitter.com/muwiresports/status/1637621104339566593?s=46&t=x7EI4kEGy_wK6z3tI_7ZgA
A teammate posts one emoji and suddenly we’ve lost 2 starters? Trolling, genuine chicken little’ing, doesn’t matter. This board is the worst far too often.
You do realize a lot of those posts are teal?
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What’s the consensus on Ben Gold? Does everyone feel he’ll return next season and have an expanded role? I heard he was quite homesick this season. Might he decide to return home?
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You do realize a lot of those posts are teal?
Since the “Oso posted on IG and Jop commented a money bag on it!!!” (which is wrong) post, not one comment has been in teal. Uncle Rico is obviously trolling, which I touch on in what I said.
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What’s the consensus on Ben Gold? Does everyone feel he’ll return next season and have an expanded role? I heard he was quite homesick this season. Might he decide to return home?
One guy said he’ll be an All American next year. So there’s that.
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Since the “Oso posted on IG and Jop commented a money bag on it!!!” (which is wrong) post, not one comment has been in teal. Uncle Rico is obviously trolling, which I touch on in what I said.
They weren't teal, but a lot of them were teal. If you know what I'm saying.
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One guy said he’ll be an All American next year. So there’s that.
He will be
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Major #update in mubb instagram content. Most of the team followed up Oso and posted pics of the season on their stories. A lot of a pic of Michael Kennedy holding the Big East trophy, the Oso confetti shot, and different Zach Wrightsil ones.
My #analysis is that the team all got together as a group for the first time after the loss to have some emotional conversations and celebrate their accomplishments one last time. And now they’re gearing up to start the offseason work needed to handle some unfinished business next year. 💼 🔜
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Since the “Oso posted on IG and Jop commented a money bag on it!!!” (which is wrong) post, not one comment has been in teal. Uncle Rico is obviously trolling, which I touch on in what I said.
He trolls because he is one.
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Yikes, that's a bummer. Hope his recovery is quick and he can develop his game this offseason.
I hope what Ners is hearing is right. I hope this team runs it back and feels like it has some unfinished business. I hope Jop and Oso take the briefcase to work early and often this offseason, as well as other guys on the team.
I'd love to see Oso develop a constant attack mode mindset. Hit the weight room and dominate in the paint. He's obviously not the Giannis of college basketball, but he's guarded as though he's Giannis. If his defender is laying off of him to close passing lanes, put the ball on the deck and make a poster. Would love to see him get called for charges regularly, it'd mean he's being aggressive.
Hope guys like OMax and Sean Jones keep their dribble going into the lane, and develop a secondary move off of the straight line drive.
Also hope Stevie and OMax shoot thousands of catch and shoot 3 pointers and become consistent threats, just off of catch and shoot. They'll get their opportunities. If they can knock those down it takes the team to another level.
I hope everyone gets into the weight room hard this offseason. That's what stands out to me the most in watching the teams still playing. A lot of our guys look like college athletes. A lot of guys still playing look like grown men. I thought we got some decent attempts at the rim against MSU, but weren't physical enough to finish through contact.
I'd like to see the offense develop a few more set plays to get guys like Joplin open looks when the offense bogs down.
Brutal way to end the season, but overall the season was the most enjoyable season in my adult life. I think there's decent room for growth. Excited to see how these kids come back next season.
Sent you a PM. Good points here. Agree.
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There’s a reason I don’t post on this board anymore
He said, in a post on this board.
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Major #update in mubb instagram content. Most of the team followed up Oso and posted pics of the season on their stories. A lot of a pic of Michael Kennedy holding the Big East trophy, the Oso confetti shot, and different Zach Wrightsil ones.
My #analysis is that the team all got together as a group for the first time after the loss to have some emotional conversations and celebrate their accomplishments one last time. And now they’re gearing up to start the offseason work needed to handle some unfinished business next year. 💼 🔜
Maybe that suitcase just means Maui can’t come soon enough aina?
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He said, in a post on this board.
Absolutely. Still frequent this board since it’s a great place to find info on my alma mater. But when especially dumb chit is said, I’m compelled to chime in.
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That is how I ended up with 20k posts.
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Everything kids post today has meaning. Everything.
Whether Oso goes pro or not remains to be seen, but they all know he's on the fringe. No secret.
Cool, can you change your screen name to "Knower of Emoji Meanings"
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That is how I ended up with 20k posts.
Underrated comment
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Tre Norman named Defensive Player of the Year by the New England Preporatory School Athletic Council.
https://twitter.com/trenorman617/status/1640535152207036421?t=cu2vKYzTsxlmy3nfWpyCdQ&s=19
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Underrated comment
It's a perfect example of why this board needs a "like" button or upvote function.
If it makes me literally laugh out loud at work, it must be acknowledged somehow for posterity sake.
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If no one other than Ellis transfers, the team roster will look essentially the same as this past season with the addition of the three freshmen. The starting lineup will remain the same, and the style of play will be unchanged. So, given that context, what has to happen for the team to be better and have a better chance at even more post-season success?
1. Oso, Gold, and Ross all have to get physically stronger.
2. Oso has to develop a 12- 15 ft shot so defenses cannot sag off of him.
3. Joplin and Omax both have to improve their ball handling.
4. Gold has to get confident in his outside shooting.
5. Stevie has to get confident in his shooting so he can consistently take the wide open 3 shot.
6. Itejerre has to do whatever necessary to be able to give Oso some relief instead of relying on Gold to do it.
7. Sean Jones needs to develop his outside shot so he has a way to score when in the game.
Think that's asking for a lot? I don't. Look at the progress Stevie, Kam, Tyler, and Oso made in just one year.
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If no one other than Ellis transfers, the team roster will look essentially the same as this past season with the addition of the three freshmen. The starting lineup will remain the same, and the style of play will be unchanged. So, given that context, what has to happen for the team to be better and have a better chance at even more post-season success?
1. Oso, Gold, and Ross all have to get physically stronger.
2. Oso has to develop a 12- 15 ft shot so defenses cannot sag off of him.
3. Joplin and Omax both have to improve their ball handling.
4. Gold has to get confident in his outside shooting.
5. Stevie has to get confident in his shooting so he can consistently take the wide open 3 shot.
6. Itejerre has to do whatever necessary to be able to give Oso some relief instead of relying on Gold to do it.
7. Sean Jones needs to develop his outside shot so he has a way to score when in the game.
Think that's asking for a lot? I don't. Look at the progress Stevie, Kam, Tyler, and Oso made in just one year.
Exactly, every kid coming back next year has room for improvement. Also, they all can get stronger which they happen.
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Live Update 03/28/23
G- Tyler Kolek(RS-Jr), Sean Jones(So)
G- Stevie Mitchell(Jr), Tre Norman(Fr)
G- Kam Jones(Jr), Chase Ross(So), Zaide Lowery(Fr)
F- Olivier-Maxence Prosper(RS-Jr), David Joplin(Jr), Al Amadou(Fr)
F- Oso Ighodaro(RS-Jr), Ben Gold(So)
1 available roster spot
Key NBA Draft Dates:
NBA Early Entry Deadline: April 23rd
NBA Draft Combine: May 15-21
NBA Draft Lottery: May 16th
NCAA Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline: May 31st
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The Athletic is the 1st real trusted site that I've seen have OMax getting drafted.
They have him at 49th as of today surrounded by 3 Creighton guys.
Kalkbrenner at 48, Kaluma at 50, Scheierman at 58.
No sign of Oso.
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One thing is for sure. Our record next year will be a crapshoot.
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One thing is for sure. Our record next year will be a crapshoot.
It will be. We’ll probably have a predictions thread at the start of the year. We can take a look at the end of the year to see what teams over and under performed on the Marquette schedule
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I didn’t trip on my jog this evening too. It was a crapshoot but I made it!
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Next we’ll be talking about the butterfly effect and how everything is connected and one.
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200 minutes (per team) available in a College Basketball game.
2022-2023 Minutes Distribution (Rounded to Nearest Whole Number)
Kolek- 32
Ighodaro- 31
Kam- 30
OMax- 29
Stevie- 23
Joplin- 19
Ross- 16
Jones- 12
Gold- 8
That is 200 minutes.
If the roster stays in tact Lowery would almost certainly be a redshirt candidate because there is already 0 minutes available based on the numbers above and the guard room is even more packed.
Tre Norman is going to find a way to get Ross-like minutes from this season if not more. That's an additional 16+ minutes that aren't available right now.
Even if OMax (the most likely pro candidate) leaves for professional opportunities, that doesn't solve the guard logjam and in turn makes the front court even thinner.
After analyzing the roster and numbers from last year it is pretty clear it is going to be a hectic few months in Shaka's office.
Exciting times for Marquette fans though with so many talented options. Not every school has this much talent available.
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200 minutes (per team) available in a College Basketball game.
2022-2023 Minutes Distribution (Rounded to Nearest Whole Number)
Kolek- 32
Ighodaro- 31
Kam- 30
OMax- 29
Stevie- 23
Joplin- 19
Ross- 16
Jones- 12
Gold- 8
That is 200 minutes.
If the roster stays in tact Lowery would almost certainly be a redshirt candidate because there is already 0 minutes available based on the numbers above and the guard room is even more packed.
Tre Norman is going to find a way to get Ross-like minutes from this season if not more. That's an additional 16+ minutes that aren't available right now.
Even if OMax (the most likely pro candidate) leaves for professional opportunities, that doesn't solve the guard logjam and in turn makes the front court even thinner.
After analyzing the roster and numbers from last year it is pretty clear it is going to be a hectic few months in Shaka's office.
Exciting times for Marquette fans though with so many talented options. Not every school has this much talent available.
Gold needs to play more...
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Until Shaka wakes up and plays Gold all 200 minutes, he's on the hot seat.
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Until Shaka wakes up and plays Gold all 200 minutes, he's on the hot seat.
He’s on the hot seat until he gets bigs that bang aircraft carriers
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200 minutes (per team) available in a College Basketball game.
2022-2023 Minutes Distribution (Rounded to Nearest Whole Number)
Kolek- 32
Ighodaro- 31
Kam- 30
OMax- 29
Stevie- 23
Joplin- 19
Ross- 16
Jones- 12
Gold- 8
That is 200 minutes.
Playing time will work itself out. Injuries happen, so it's good to have as many good players as possible. More depth also means less worrying about foul trouble. Maybe the defense turns the aggressiveness up a notch this year.
Competition for minutes will be fierce, which will push everyone to work super hard. The cream will rise to the top. If one or two players surpass expectations,
Marquette will be even more dangerous. It'll be fun to watch it all play out.
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200 minutes (per team) available in a College Basketball game.
Let the record show that for the past decade we have averaged MORE than 200 minutes per game.
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Well, yeah. Overtime. But 200 minutes is an easily agreed upon shorthand.
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Well, yeah. Overtime. But 200 minutes is an easily agreed upon shorthand.
Even a double OT at PC.
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Well, yeah. Overtime. But 200 minutes is an easily agreed upon shorthand.
The sum of mpg of all your players will always be greater than 200. Even in a season where you play no overtime games.