So, when does USA split up into different countries?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.

Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?

[dgies9156]

Man, you are such a boomer, every example is after the day you were born.

Go back and look at the 1840s/1850s, a lot of similarities.  This does not mean we end up splitting up as we did in the 1860s, but the parallels are uncomfortably close.

Look, everything we are debating right now is economic. In effect, who gets what.

Do you understand the difference between slavery, where we systematically take a minority, force them to work against their will, deprive them of their right to freedom and treat them as property, and the debate today, which has much to do with how we divide wealth?

It is a huge difference.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I reported this topic when I first saw it because I knew the usual suspects (Jockey, 4ever, etc.) weren’t going to be mature enough to not make dumb political potshots.

To no one’s surprise, I was right.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?

The Billy is Chicos riff is really stupid.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The Billy is Chicos riff is really stupid.

I've acknowledged that I don't think they are the same person. However, the similarities are pretty amazing. I imagine the Idaho beer summits are really something.

[Jockey]

I reported this topic when I first saw it because I knew the usual suspects (Jockey, 4ever, etc.) weren’t going to be mature enough to not make dumb political potshots.

To no one’s surprise, I was right.

Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.

I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.

[Lighthouse 84]

Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.

I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.

Damn, you get butt hurt easily. And you’re predictable to boot.

[Not A Serious Person]

Look, everything we are debating right now is economic. In effect, who gets what.

Do you understand the difference between slavery, where we systematically take a minority, force them to work against their will, deprive them of their right to freedom, and treat them as property, and the debate today, which has much to do with how we divide wealth?

It is a huge difference.

Everything is always economic, throughout history.

1804s/1850s was economic, it was about states' rights.  This is the big issue today as well.

[Billy Hoyle]

Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?

I’m not in CA, but feel bad for my friends who are with homeless drug dealers and criminals being given greater rights than homeowners and law abiding citizens. My only reason for bringing up CA was the Governor worrying more about another state than his own and it’s issues.

I have been told Boise is really cool. I’ve never been but am interested. Sun Valley nearby is a draw. MU alum owned brewery there too. Bozeman, Mt too. But I like having pro sports in my back yard.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.

I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.

Dude you are nothing but a talking point. Shallow and moronic ones at that.

[Uncle Rico]

Everything is always economic, throughout history.

1804s/1850s was economic, it was about states' rights.  This is the big issue today as well.

Well, I mean slavery was a pretty big issue

[thomaskyle]

Im not making any predictions.  But stating this cant happen because of the constitution is kind of foolish.  IE the states leaving are leaving the country, in other words not part of the USA or abiding by its laws and rules or the constitution.  And of course the constitution doesnt allow for it.  Its designed for this country.  The state, IE California would be flipping the bird to the rest of the Country and not abiding by that Constitution and likely forming its own.

Also, if you think the blue states are flipping the bill for the rest of the country that is nuts.  Some of the blue states have the greatest assets for sure, yet they are in the largest debt are a burden in other areas.

5 largest debt states in the usa in billions
1   California   $152.80
2   New York   $139.20
3   Massachusetts   $77.00
4   New Jersey   $65.90
5   Illinois   $61.80

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

5 largest debt states in the usa in billions
1   California   $152.80
2   New York   $139.20
3   Massachusetts   $77.00
4   New Jersey   $65.90
5   Illinois   $61.80

These numbers are a bit misleading. Better measure is state debt per capita. Blue states still make up most of the high end but California checks in at #18.

You should also look at which states rely the most on aid from the federal governemnt:

1. New Mexico
2. West Virginia
3. Mississippi
4. Alaska
5. Montana
6. Kentucky
7. Alabama
8. Arizona
9. Louisiana
10. Vermont
44. California

I won't post much more (if at all) in this thread, but put me down for: "We still have 50 (or more) states 50 years from now"

[rocky_warrior]

2427

I thought this was a prediction thread, not an opinion thread.

[MU82]

Well, I mean slavery was a pretty big issue

P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."

[jficke13]

P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."

You know I hadn't really been wondering when I was going to get Scoop's reflection on the Lost Cause, but I suppose today's as good a day as any.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.

The main reason for California's small pop decline in 2021:  Travel restrictions and fear of contagion also dramatically tamped down the number of new arrivals from abroad, the main source of the state’s population growth over the last decade.

[Galway Eagle]

I asked this years ago on the politics thread and everybody hated me for it. But I still think you could reasonably split into 5 or 6 countries that would each be more effective at governing for its citizens and advancing its agendas. The important part would be keeping the countries in a larger pact like the EU. You could then avoid a lot of the biggest issues of splitting.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."

  82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?

They liked owning slaves, too?

[dgies9156]

One of the things one has to keep in mind is that a Constitution, series of laws and regulations and a court system is only as good as the government's ability to enforce it. Period. If we don't want to follow the law because it is inconvenient or against our personal beliefs and no one is there to take disciplinary action, the law is meaningless.

That said, before anyone takes this argument too far, keep in mind that the North American economy is one of the most integrated the world has ever seen. The openness of our transportation systems, availability of our resources and willingness to move around factors of production is critical to our success as a nation.

There's no way you can separate Kansas, Dakota and Minnesota wheat, for example, from bakers in Chicago. Or Wyoming coal from power plants in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota or Missouri.

Sure, Lori Lightfoot in Chicago would be pleased as peaches if a Chicagoan couldn't easily emigrate to, say, Nashville, or even Lake County, IL. Some Progressives would argue, "they'd stick around to be part of the solution." But all it would do would be to entrap people in a problem rather than giving them the freedom to find a better life.

As a final thought, Europe tried this a century ago. It was called city-states, or fiefdoms. How'd that work out?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Emigrating to Tennessee is never a solution to anything.

[MU82]

  82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?

Perfect deflection. Congrats.

[jficke13]

One of the things one has to keep in mind is that a Constitution, series of laws and regulations and a court system is only as good as the government's ability to enforce it. Period. If we don't want to follow the law because it is inconvenient or against our personal beliefs and no one is there to take disciplinary action, the law is meaningless.

[...]

Cease quoting laws to those with swords.

[Galway Eagle]

Not perfect but I'd be pretty darn happy with the country. It'd likely position "Yankeedom" as the economic powerhouse but also then the country would predominantly be on the same page and could legislate effectively.