MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on December 12, 2021, 08:42:01 AM
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https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1469865185493983234?t=fjfzG8teGxuUqPL2mqrxFg&s=19
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IBTL.
I've said it before. Within XX years, the probability the US will contain the original 50 states is zero percent. Might take 50 years, might take 5.
California will secede and a GOP president will let them, no shots fired.
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I for one would love to see Joe Manchin's state and the southern bloc survive without coastal states subsidizing them.
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I for one would love to see Joe Manchin's state and the southern bloc survive without coastal states subsidizing them.
They have no clue how things actually work
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There are certain groups hoping for a civil war, but it's not going to happen. We're going to have to finish Reconstruction, though.
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This should be fun.
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/lady-eating-popcorn-while-looking-600w-1275751654.jpg)
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IBTL.
I've said it before. Within XX years, the probability the US will contain the original 50 states is zero percent. Might take 50 years, might take 5.
California will secede and a GOP president will let them, no shots fired.
Before this happens, CA will split into several states, as many as six. Then some will go and some will stay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Californias
The question is what happens when we start to split up? Visas, borders (read: wall), and tariffs? Or do you think it merely means some legal definitions and traveling between these new countries will be no different than traveling between Wisconsin and Illinois?
My take, if we start to split up, we have no idea how ugly it will get. So, I 100% disagree with your "no shots fired." Maybe not bullets but definitely economic "bullets" and they can hurt just as much.
The precise purpose of splitting up is to punish the other side. Re-read Newsome's tweet. He just wants to "punish" Texas.
And Texas is not taking it. Ted Cruz introduced a bill to establish an immigration port in Martha's Vineyard so all the "undocumented" can hang out on their streets.
https://www.mvtimes.com/2021/10/20/cruz-bill-seeks-immigration-port-marthas-vineyard/
Again, it is all about hurting the other side, not helping your side. Such things get really ugly.
So, I hope it does not happen. If/when it does, look out.
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There are certain groups hoping for a civil war, but it's not going to happen. We're going to have to finish Reconstruction, though.
Haha this post is awesome.
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IBTL.
I've said it before. Within XX years, the probability the US will contain the original 50 states is zero percent. Might take 50 years, might take 5.
California will secede and a GOP president will let them, no shots fired.
This reads like a mad lib.
I’ve said it before, within xx amount of years Marquette will win back to back NCAA titles, might take 5 years, might take 50.
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Supreme Court precedent says it can't happen.
Oops..., never mind. Precedent is soooo yesterday.
Seriously, it ain't happening. Basically, just logistics and $$$$. Texas has the 3rd most defense contracts in the country. They would lose those. They would lose thousands of businesses. They would no longer receive gov't welfare. They would have to raise and pay for their own army for defense against all of those rapists coming in from Mexico. Then there is the security issues. Does anyone think the US would allow Texans into what is left of the US either to work or visit? We'd also probably go back to Middle East oil (as needed) and freeze out their one true revenue stream.
Ted Cruz is little more than a loud mouth fool. With an ugly wife and an assassin for a father.
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Supreme Court precedent says it can't happen.
Oops..., never mind. Precedent is soooo yesterday.
Seriously, it ain't happening. Basically, just logistics and $$$$. Texas has the 3rd most defense contracts in the country. They would lose those. They would lose thousands of businesses. They would no longer receive gov't welfare. They would have to raise and pay for their own army for defense against all of those rapists coming in from Mexico. Then there is the security issues. Does anyone think the US would allow Texans into what is left of the US either to work or visit? We'd also probably go back to Middle East oil (as needed) and freeze out their one true revenue stream.
Ted Cruz is little more than a loud mouth fool. With an ugly wife and an assassin for a father.
I'm glad you stooped to middle school and made fun of someone for having an ugly wife. Very mature. Great example.
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I'm glad you stooped to middle school and made fun of someone for having an ugly wife. Very mature. Great example.
You are not bright enough to respond. It was your hero, trump, who said those things about Cruz’ wife and father.
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You people have no sense of history or what our country is about.
You think today is the worst we've ever seen? Not even close! In the 1960s, we engaged in an unpopular war, had Boomers screaming about distrust of anyone over 30, had massive (and I mean massive) riots in almost every major city in the United States. Not to mention the fact that historically oppressed groups, like gays and lesbians, women, etc., began protesting. Many thought the country was falling apart.
In the 1930s, a series of bad economic decisions and an overheated economy led to one of the worst economic times this nation had ever seen. Our parents/grandparents or great grandparents' lives were forever changed by those times. At times, the situation was so bad many thought the republic we have would fall apart.
In the early 1970s, we had a President who was a crook and openly flaunted the constitution.
Between our founding and at least the mid-1960s, we systematically oppressed an entire race. Our country went to war over the right to do so -- and almost did again in the 1960s -- but the inherent superiority of our system over anything else in the world held firm, even with the demagogues, dividers and political grandstanders.
Gang, the reality is we always have challenges. We always have differences that divide us. There is no shortage of aggrieved parties. We have a system to address it, far better than anyplace else in the world. We'll get through it, like we did the 1860s, 1930s, 1960s and 1970s.
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Gang, the reality is we always have challenges. We always have differences that divide us. There is no shortage of aggrieved parties. We have a system to address it, far better than anyplace else in the world. We'll get through it, like we did the 1860s, 1930s, 1960s and 1970s.
I agree and everyone who believes this better start standing up for the system because it’s under assault.
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Supreme Court precedent says it can't happen.
Oops..., never mind. Precedent is soooo yesterday.
Seriously, it ain't happening. Basically, just logistics and $$$$. Texas has the 3rd most defense contracts in the country. They would lose those. They would lose thousands of businesses. They would no longer receive gov't welfare. They would have to raise and pay for their own army for defense against all of those rapists coming in from Mexico. Then there is the security issues. Does anyone think the US would allow Texans into what is left of the US either to work or visit? We'd also probably go back to Middle East oil (as needed) and freeze out their one true revenue stream.
Ted Cruz is little more than a loud mouth fool. With an ugly wife and an assassin for a father.
Above I noted that splitting up was about punishing the other side, not making your life better.
... and then Jockey weighted it to perfectly illustrate what is wrong with this country.
He is a living/breathing cautionary tale of what is wrong today.
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I'm glad you stooped to middle school and made fun of someone for having an ugly wife. Very mature. Great example.
🤡 🤡 🤡
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You people have no sense of history or what our country is about.
You think today is the worst we've ever seen? Not even close! In the 1960s, we engaged in an unpopular war, had Boomers screaming about distrust of anyone over 30, had massive (and I mean massive) riots in almost every major city in the United States. Not to mention the fact that historically oppressed groups, like gays and lesbians, women, etc., began protesting. Many thought the country was falling apart.
In the 1930s, a series of bad economic decisions and an overheated economy led to one of the worst economic times this nation had ever seen. Our parents/grandparents or great grandparents' lives were forever changed by those times. At times, the situation was so bad many thought the republic we have would fall apart.
In the early 1970s, we had a President who was a crook and openly flaunted the constitution.
Between our founding and at least the mid-1960s, we systematically oppressed an entire race. Our country went to war over the right to do so -- and almost did again in the 1960s -- but the inherent superiority of our system over anything else in the world held firm, even with the demagogues, dividers and political grandstanders.
Gang, the reality is we always have challenges. We always have differences that divide us. There is no shortage of aggrieved parties. We have a system to address it, far better than anyplace else in the world. We'll get through it, like we did the 1860s, 1930s, 1960s and 1970s.
Man, you are such a boomer, every example is after the day you were born.
Go back and look at the 1840s/1850s, a lot of similarities. This does not mean we end up splitting up as we did in the 1860s, but the parallels are uncomfortably close.
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This country's greatest threat is the Democratic Party, aina?
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This country's greatest threat is the Democratic Party, aina?
Not often a comment is sad, pathetic and funny at the same time because of a deep down need for acknowledgment and knowing your small little life isn’t giving you enough. Good luck
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You're adorable
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https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1469865185493983234?t=fjfzG8teGxuUqPL2mqrxFg&s=19
And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.
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And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.
Good. We should legalize, tax and regulate drugs like anything else.
As for this "increase in crime...." - https://youtu.be/de3tBrCg8sI
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Plus, give non-citizens the right to vote, hey?
#bullchit
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Good. We should legalize, tax and regulate drugs like anything else.
As for this "increase in crime...." - https://youtu.be/de3tBrCg8sI
Newsom was mayor of SF, not LA. And some clown on YouTube, really? You’re better than that.
https://www.hoover.org/research/why-san-francisco-nearly-most-crime-ridden-city-us
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisco-bay-area-gun-violence-murders-2020
Statewide: https://capitolweekly.net/amid-pandemic-california-murder-rate-shows-shocking-rise/
Preliminary numbers from California’s biggest cities suggest that 2020’s stunning 30-percent increase in the statewide murder rate – the largest since 1960 – has continued to rise this year, and crime experts have as many questions as answers.
“We’re seeing a continued trend” in rising murder rates throughout 2021, said Magnus Lofstrom, a policy director and senior fellow at the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California. “We’re seeing increases in homicide year over year again.”
Official numbers for 2021, a year with a few weeks remaining, are months away. (Thoroughly analyzed crime data takes time.) But, thanks to the record-keeping reliability of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland and San Diego, researchers have an almost real-time count that shows 2021 is going to be another unsettling year.
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Newsom was mayor of SF, not LA. And some clown on YouTube, really? You’re better than that.
https://www.hoover.org/research/why-san-francisco-nearly-most-crime-ridden-city-us
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisco-bay-area-gun-violence-murders-2020
Statewide: https://capitolweekly.net/amid-pandemic-california-murder-rate-shows-shocking-rise/
Preliminary numbers from California’s biggest cities suggest that 2020’s stunning 30-percent increase in the statewide murder rate – the largest since 1960 – has continued to rise this year, and crime experts have as many questions as answers.
“We’re seeing a continued trend” in rising murder rates throughout 2021, said Magnus Lofstrom, a policy director and senior fellow at the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California. “We’re seeing increases in homicide year over year again.”
Official numbers for 2021, a year with a few weeks remaining, are months away. (Thoroughly analyzed crime data takes time.) But, thanks to the record-keeping reliability of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland and San Diego, researchers have an almost real-time count that shows 2021 is going to be another unsettling year.
Homicide = theft? Weird
No surprise you wouldn't watch the video.
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And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.
Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?
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Man, you are such a boomer, every example is after the day you were born.
Go back and look at the 1840s/1850s, a lot of similarities. This does not mean we end up splitting up as we did in the 1860s, but the parallels are uncomfortably close.
Look, everything we are debating right now is economic. In effect, who gets what.
Do you understand the difference between slavery, where we systematically take a minority, force them to work against their will, deprive them of their right to freedom and treat them as property, and the debate today, which has much to do with how we divide wealth?
It is a huge difference.
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I reported this topic when I first saw it because I knew the usual suspects (Jockey, 4ever, etc.) weren’t going to be mature enough to not make dumb political potshots.
To no one’s surprise, I was right.
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Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?
The Billy is Chicos riff is really stupid.
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The Billy is Chicos riff is really stupid.
I've acknowledged that I don't think they are the same person. However, the similarities are pretty amazing. I imagine the Idaho beer summits are really something.
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I reported this topic when I first saw it because I knew the usual suspects (Jockey, 4ever, etc.) weren’t going to be mature enough to not make dumb political potshots.
To no one’s surprise, I was right.
Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.
I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.
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Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.
I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.
Damn, you get butt hurt easily. And you’re predictable to boot.
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Look, everything we are debating right now is economic. In effect, who gets what.
Do you understand the difference between slavery, where we systematically take a minority, force them to work against their will, deprive them of their right to freedom, and treat them as property, and the debate today, which has much to do with how we divide wealth?
It is a huge difference.
Everything is always economic, throughout history.
1804s/1850s was economic, it was about states' rights. This is the big issue today as well.
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Chicos used to whine about California, too. Have you considered Idaho?
I’m not in CA, but feel bad for my friends who are with homeless drug dealers and criminals being given greater rights than homeowners and law abiding citizens. My only reason for bringing up CA was the Governor worrying more about another state than his own and it’s issues.
I have been told Boise is really cool. I’ve never been but am interested. Sun Valley nearby is a draw. MU alum owned brewery there too. Bozeman, Mt too. But I like having pro sports in my back yard.
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Have some hot chocolate and a nice blankey. It will be all right.
I made one joke about Cruz and that set you off? Man up, lil’ guy.
Dude you are nothing but a talking point. Shallow and moronic ones at that.
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Everything is always economic, throughout history.
1804s/1850s was economic, it was about states' rights. This is the big issue today as well.
Well, I mean slavery was a pretty big issue
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Im not making any predictions. But stating this cant happen because of the constitution is kind of foolish. IE the states leaving are leaving the country, in other words not part of the USA or abiding by its laws and rules or the constitution. And of course the constitution doesnt allow for it. Its designed for this country. The state, IE California would be flipping the bird to the rest of the Country and not abiding by that Constitution and likely forming its own.
Also, if you think the blue states are flipping the bill for the rest of the country that is nuts. Some of the blue states have the greatest assets for sure, yet they are in the largest debt are a burden in other areas.
5 largest debt states in the usa in billions
1 California $152.80
2 New York $139.20
3 Massachusetts $77.00
4 New Jersey $65.90
5 Illinois $61.80
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5 largest debt states in the usa in billions
1 California $152.80
2 New York $139.20
3 Massachusetts $77.00
4 New Jersey $65.90
5 Illinois $61.80
These numbers are a bit misleading. Better measure is state debt per capita. Blue states still make up most of the high end but California checks in at #18.
You should also look at which states rely the most on aid from the federal governemnt:
1. New Mexico
2. West Virginia
3. Mississippi
4. Alaska
5. Montana
6. Kentucky
7. Alabama
8. Arizona
9. Louisiana
10. Vermont
44. California
I won't post much more (if at all) in this thread, but put me down for: "We still have 50 (or more) states 50 years from now"
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2427
I thought this was a prediction thread, not an opinion thread.
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Well, I mean slavery was a pretty big issue
P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."
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P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."
You know I hadn't really been wondering when I was going to get Scoop's reflection on the Lost Cause, but I suppose today's as good a day as any.
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And yet Newsom is ok with open air drug markets and rampant theft ih his former city. Maybe he should focus on his own state’s issues which have resulted in a loss of population under his watch.
The main reason for California's small pop decline in 2021: Travel restrictions and fear of contagion also dramatically tamped down the number of new arrivals from abroad, the main source of the state’s population growth over the last decade.
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I asked this years ago on the politics thread and everybody hated me for it. But I still think you could reasonably split into 5 or 6 countries that would each be more effective at governing for its citizens and advancing its agendas. The important part would be keeping the countries in a larger pact like the EU. You could then avoid a lot of the biggest issues of splitting.
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P-shaw! It wasn't that they wanted to enslave, whip, dominate, rape and own human beings (whom they didn't consider to be humans). It was they wanted to maintain "states' rights."
82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?
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82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?
They liked owning slaves, too?
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One of the things one has to keep in mind is that a Constitution, series of laws and regulations and a court system is only as good as the government's ability to enforce it. Period. If we don't want to follow the law because it is inconvenient or against our personal beliefs and no one is there to take disciplinary action, the law is meaningless.
That said, before anyone takes this argument too far, keep in mind that the North American economy is one of the most integrated the world has ever seen. The openness of our transportation systems, availability of our resources and willingness to move around factors of production is critical to our success as a nation.
There's no way you can separate Kansas, Dakota and Minnesota wheat, for example, from bakers in Chicago. Or Wyoming coal from power plants in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota or Missouri.
Sure, Lori Lightfoot in Chicago would be pleased as peaches if a Chicagoan couldn't easily emigrate to, say, Nashville, or even Lake County, IL. Some Progressives would argue, "they'd stick around to be part of the solution." But all it would do would be to entrap people in a problem rather than giving them the freedom to find a better life.
As a final thought, Europe tried this a century ago. It was called city-states, or fiefdoms. How'd that work out?
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Emigrating to Tennessee is never a solution to anything.
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82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?
Perfect deflection. Congrats.
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One of the things one has to keep in mind is that a Constitution, series of laws and regulations and a court system is only as good as the government's ability to enforce it. Period. If we don't want to follow the law because it is inconvenient or against our personal beliefs and no one is there to take disciplinary action, the law is meaningless.
[...]
Cease quoting laws to those with swords.
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(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/11/11/map_custom-7636b2427382cc547b583285526a2f3f0adeed13-s800-c85.webp)
Not perfect but I'd be pretty darn happy with the country. It'd likely position "Yankeedom" as the economic powerhouse but also then the country would predominantly be on the same page and could legislate effectively.
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As a final thought, Europe tried this a century ago. It was called city-states, or fiefdoms. How'd that work out?
Conversely the EU does this now and it's worked pretty great.
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Perfect deflection. Congrats.
The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
As I see it the schism today is between people who profess disdain for our nation and those who are just trying to get along given the day to day tribulations.
I just try to stay in my lane and be a good human.
Have a Merry Christmas
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The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
As I see it the schism today is between people who profess disdain for our nation and those who are just trying to get along given the day to day tribulations.
I just try to stay in my lane and be a good human.
Have a Merry Christmas
Agree, the anti-democratic forces trying to turn the country into an autocracy are a real menace.
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The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
Got all the talking points down I see.
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Conversely the EU does this now and it's worked pretty great.
Really depends who you ask. I know plenty of Europeans, especially business people, who have plenty of issues with the EU. And its not just some xenophobic nonsense like with Brexit. Wealthier/more developed countries carrying others for one.
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< The important part would be keeping countries in a larger pact like the EU>
The EU is about a lot more than trade agreements. It has many rules about human rights, refugees, etc etc that the purported countries would find it difficult to agree on. No way would I in Yankeedom agree to the thinking of some of these other ‘countries’.
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82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?
They were traitors, too
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Really depends who you ask. I know plenty of Europeans, especially business people, who have plenty of issues with the EU. And its not just some xenophobic nonsense like with Brexit. Wealthier/more developed countries carrying others for one.
Fair enough. But as seen from TAMU's point that's already happening in the USA. At least if we turned into our own version of that the various countries could govern in the manner that suits their population better. I think even those that are unhappy supporting lesser developed countries would admit that they'd take that over their 1st world city being pigeon held because a different culture hundred of miles away likes guns or because a bunch of Uber religious people want to impart their ethos on everyone.
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< The important part would be keeping countries in a larger pact like the EU>
The EU is about a lot more than trade agreements. It has many rules about human rights, refugees, etc etc that the purported countries would find it difficult to agree on. No way would I in Yankeedom agree to the thinking of some of these other ‘countries’.
I'd imagine that each nations constitution would be at its core pretty similar and likely the major changes would be for environmental regulations, education, healthcare, guns, death penalty, abortion and marriage rules. So I think human rights would be pretty similar but you're definitely correct about Refugees. Can't agree as a single country no way would we as individual countries
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Galway, your list of major differences pretty much cover an awful lot of human rights.
Heck a lot of the states are differing on voting rights, so it’s not like they would agree on that most basic part of our system.
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The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
As I see it the schism today is between people who profess disdain for our nation and those who are just trying to get along given the day to day tribulations.
I just try to stay in my lane and be a good human.
Have a Merry Christmas
I don't think it's disdain for our nation as much as disdain for certain populations within America. Case in point: I was at the MLS Cup final on Saturday. Before the match the PA the announcer said that MLS stood with and wanted to send prayers to those affected by the tornados in Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, and Arkansas. The Timbers Army, (which has become a far-left political performative organization instead of a fan group), booed the announcement. WTF? Certain populations cannot even have sympathy for people who have just suffered death and destruction because they come from states that vote a certain way (and this goes for right-wingers who mock those in states that experience earthquakes and other natural disasters too). We've lost our humanity when we start dancing and celebrating the tragedies of others because we think they vote a certain way.
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You should have a chat with Rand Paul.
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82 How do you reconcile the thousands of Black and Native American slave owners fighting on the Confederate side?
Wait you think this was because of how well-versed and passionate they were about state's rights?
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The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
As I see it the schism today is between people who profess disdain for our nation and those who are just trying to get along given the day to day tribulations.
Cool.
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Emigrating to Tennessee is never a solution to anything.
It was for my family. We moved there in 1961 and went to grade school and high school there. Left in 1974 to go to Marquette.
My Dad and Mom came back in 1980, somewhat begrudgingly, because Dad was named CEO of his company.
Tennessee’s transformation In the past 59 years has been amazing. Beautiful state that is becoming an economic powerhouse.
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Really depends who you ask. I know plenty of Europeans, especially business people, who have plenty of issues with the EU. And its not just some xenophobic nonsense like with Brexit. Wealthier/more developed countries carrying others for one.
Yep. At the formation of the EU there was "The Poor Four," of Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Spain (also called the "PIIGS" with Italy added). Those countries got huge cash infusions from the EU in 1992 which pissed off the wealthier countries. Ireland was removed from that group during the Celtic Tiger period but when the tiger went four paws up their deficit was the largest in the world in terms of GDP and they were among the "PIIGS" again.
I always found it interesting how in Ireland EU flags and signs touting EU investment (especially for the Motorways) were everywhere whereas when I'd go to the UK there was barely any sign of EU membership.
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The point is that slavery has been an abomination since the beginning of mankind and practiced since forever . i reject that 160 years later slavery is the original sin of the United States . at the time of the Civil War <1% of the population owned other people.
As I see it the schism today is between people who profess disdain for our nation and those who are just trying to get along given the day to day tribulations.
I just try to stay in my lane and be a good human.
Have a Merry Christmas
100% accurate. Just want to be left alone and not infringed on. Merry Christmas!
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Just want to be left alone and not infringed on.
This isn't even close to being realistic in today's world.
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Topics like this is what makes many people go out and by an armory of guns. Way to help the gun industry!
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Topics like this is what makes many people go out and by an armory of guns. Way to help the gun industry!
Bingo, adding more each day. Collection is actually growing in value due to demand. Love it.
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Emigrating to Tennessee is never a solution to anything.
Except for the person emigrating
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Bingo, adding more each day. Collection is actually growing in value due to demand. Love it.
That’s a bad investment. Biden is taking them. It was on the news.
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That’s a bad investment. Biden is taking them. It was on the news.
I heard he's giving them all to Obama.
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Packers/Pats would dominate the YFL.
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Except for the person emigrating
Tennessee state ranking:
Education - 33rd
Health - 40th
Homicide - 42nd
Violent crime - 48th
Economy - 16th
Poverty - 42nd
Paradise on earth, I tell you.
Seriously, I'm sure Tennessee is lovely if you're a person of means. But doesn't seem so swell for the average person.
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Packers/Pats would dominate the YFL.
Now here's someone who's thinking of the positives!
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Bingo, adding more each day. Collection is actually growing in value due to demand. Love it.
😂😂😂😂😂
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Tennessee state ranking:
Education - 33rd
Health - 40th
Homicide - 42nd
Violent crime - 48th
Economy - 16th
Poverty - 42nd
Paradise on earth, I tell you.
Seriously, I'm sure Tennessee is lovely if you're a person of means. But doesn't seem so swell for the average person.
Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
Cute.
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How ridiculous is this conversation?
The greatest country ever built could be torn down because of a septuagenarian who has a bad toupee, lathers in skin bronzer and keeps a vanity golf handicap doesn’t think enough people liked him in the last election.
Great job America. You are great.
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How ridiculous is this conversation?
The greatest country ever built could be torn down because of a septuagenarian who has a bad toupee, lathers in skin bronzer and keeps a vanity golf handicap doesn’t think enough people liked him in the last election.
Great job America. You are great.
You really think that’s what it’s about? FFS. That’s like screaming “socialist” at anyone who skews to the left and favors more social programs
Should have just stuck with your snarky reply to a reasonable counter reply about Tennessee
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
It's like anywhere -- people can produce stats to make any place seem great or bad.
Most people who don't live in Chicago love to describe the entire city as a vast hellscape of gun violence. But in the 10 years we lived in our North Side neighborhood, there were fewer shootings than there were in idyllic Apple Valley, Minn., where we lived the 10 years before that. There also was a hostage situation in Apple Valley, but it really was a nice place to live and raise a family.
Doc Dribble tried to portray Milwaukee as "da hood," which is good because Black people love it when old white guys use ebonics. He intimated that because of the violence in "da hood," no parents would pay big money to send their kids to Marquette ... even though thousands do.
Where I live in the Charlotte area is quite nice, and yet the crime rate doubled here over the last year.
I have no doubt that parts of Tennessee are wonderful, and also no doubt that parts are horrible. Same with the Detroit area or Vegas or LA or DC or, well, pretty much anywhere.
And as Pakuni says, it's a lot easier for those with money to find the "nice" areas.
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You really think that’s what it’s about? FFS. That’s like screaming “socialist” at anyone who skews to the left and favors more social programs
Should have just stuck with your snarky reply to a reasonable counter reply about Tennessee
#maga
His administration did lead and promote the Insurrection.
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
With all due respect you love to pick and choose which stats to throw out there when $hitting all over Chicago and Illinois so saying 'there's some good spots and some bad' and 'where are the good stats?' For a place that you prefer personally is pretty hypocritical when you don't do that yourself.
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Tennessee state ranking:
Education - 33rd
Health - 40th
Homicide - 42nd
Violent crime - 48th
Economy - 16th
Poverty - 42nd
Paradise on earth, I tell you.
Seriously, I'm sure Tennessee is lovely if you're a person of means. But doesn't seem so swell for the average person.
I thought violent crime numbers were evidence of poor leadership and caused mass population movement?
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
The low tax burden causes:
Education - 33rd
Health - 40th
Homicide - 42nd
Violent crime - 48th
Poverty - 42nd
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#maga
His administration did lead and promote the Insurrection.
So there were no divisions and burgeoning schisms until Trump? Got it.
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With all due respect you love to pick and choose which stats to throw out there when $hitting all over Chicago and Illinois so saying 'there's some good spots and some bad' and 'where are the good stats?' For a place that you prefer personally is pretty hypocritical when you don't do that yourself.
Where have I used stats to $hit on Illinois or Chicago? I could (for example, the net number of people who have moved out of the state in the last decade according to the last census), but I haven't. I might have said that I don't like Illinois and I am glad that I moved, but I don't believe I have never said anything derogatory about those who like it.
It's disingenuous to use statistics about a state in general to judge whether or not a person's move was a good decision. No one who voluntary relocates does it to reduce his quality of life.
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The civil war has already begun ... and democracy is losing.
From the NYT's David Leonhardt:
American politics these days can often seem fairly normal. President Biden has had both big accomplishments and big setbacks in his first year, as is typical. In Congress, members are haggling over bills and passing some of them. At the Supreme Court, justices are hearing cases. Daily media coverage tends to reflect this apparent sense of political normalcy.
But American politics today is not really normal. It may instead be in the midst of a radical shift away from the democratic rules and traditions that have guided the country for a very long time.
An anti-democratic movement, inspired by Donald Trump but much larger than him, is making significant progress, as my colleague Charles Homans has reported. In the states that decide modern presidential elections, this movement has already changed some laws and ousted election officials, with the aim of overturning future results. It has justified the changes with blatantly false statements claiming that Biden did not really win the 2020 election.
The movement has encountered surprisingly little opposition. Most leading Republican politicians have either looked the other way or supported the anti-democratic movement. In the House, Republicans ousted Liz Cheney from a leadership position because she called out Trump’s lies.
The pushback within the Republican Party has been so weak that about 60 percent of Republican adults now tell pollsters that they believe the 2020 election was stolen — a view that’s simply wrong.
Most Democratic officials, for their part, have been focused on issues other than election security, like Covid-19 and the economy. It’s true that congressional Democrats have tried to pass a new voting rights bill, only to be stymied by Republican opposition and the filibuster. But these Democratic efforts have been sprawling and unfocused. They have included proposals — on voter-ID rules and mail-in ballots, for example — that are almost certainly less important than a federal law to block the overturning of elections, as The Times’s Nate Cohn has explained.
All of which has created a remarkable possibility: In the 2024 presidential election, Republican officials in at least one state may overturn a legitimate election result, citing fraud that does not exist, and award the state’s electoral votes to the Republican nominee. Trump tried to use this tactic in 2020, but local officials rebuffed him.
Since then, his supporters have launched a campaign — with the Orwellian name “Stop the Steal” — to ensure success next time. Steve Bannon has played a central role, using his podcast to encourage Trump supporters to take over positions in election administration, ProPublica has explained.
“This is a five-alarm fire,” Jocelyn Benson, the Democratic secretary of state in Michigan, who presided over the 2020 vote count there, told The Times. “If people in general, leaders and citizens, aren’t taking this as the most important issue of our time and acting accordingly, then we may not be able to ensure democracy prevails again in ’24.”
Barton Gellman, who wrote a recent Atlantic magazine article about the movement, told Terry Gross of NPR last week, “This is, I believe, a democratic emergency, and that without very strong and systematic pushback from protectors of democracy, we’re going to lose something that we can’t afford to lose about the way we run elections.”
Theda Skocpol, a Harvard political scientist, notes that the movement is bigger than Trump. “I think things have now moved to the point that many Republican Party officials and elected officeholders are self-starters,” she told Thomas Edsall of Times Opinion.
The main battlegrounds are swing states where Republicans control the state legislature, like Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Republicans control these legislatures because of both gerrymandered districts and Democratic weakness outside of major metro areas. (One way Democrats can push back against the anti-democratic movement: Make a bigger effort to win working-class votes.) The Constitution lets state legislatures set the rules for choosing presidential electors.
“None of this is happening behind closed doors,” Jamelle Bouie, a Times columnist, recently wrote. “We are headed for a crisis of some sort. When it comes, we can be shocked that it is actually happening, but we shouldn’t be surprised.”
Here is an overview of recent developments:
Arizona. Republican legislators have passed a law taking away authority over election lawsuits from the secretary of state, who’s now a Democrat, and giving it to the attorney general, a Republican. Legislators are debating another bill that would allow them to revoke election certification “by majority vote at any time before the presidential inauguration.”
Georgia. Last year, Brad Raffensperger, Georgia’s Republican secretary of state, helped stop Trump’s attempts to reverse the result. State legislators in Georgia have since weakened his powers, and a Trump-backed candidate is running to replace Raffensperger next year. Republicans have also passed a law that gives a commission they control the power to remove local election officials.
Michigan. Kristina Karamo, a Trump-endorsed candidate who has repeated the lie that the 2020 elections were fraudulent, is running for secretary of state, the office that oversees elections. (Republican candidates are running on similar messages in Colorado, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and elsewhere, according to ABC News.)
Pennsylvania. Republicans are trying to amend the state’s Constitution to make the secretary of state an elected position, rather than one that the governor appoints. Pennsylvania is also one of the states where Trump allies — like Stephen Lindemuth, who attended the Jan. 6 rally that turned into an attack on Congress — have won local races to oversee elections.
Wisconsin. Senator Ron Johnson is urging the Republican-controlled Legislature to take full control of federal elections. Doing so could remove the governor, currently a Democrat, from the process, and weaken the bipartisan state elections commission.
The new anti-democratic movement may still fail. This year, for example, Republican legislators in seven states proposed bills that would have given partisan officials a direct ability to change election results. None of the bills passed.
Arguably the most important figures on this issue are Republican officials and voters who believe in democracy and are uncomfortable with using raw political power to overturn an election result.
Miles Taylor, a former Trump administration official, has helped to start the Renew America Movement, which supports candidates — of either party — running against Trump-backed Republicans. It is active in congressional races but does not have enough resources to compete in the state contests that often determine election procedures, Taylor told The Times.
Gellman, the Atlantic writer, argues that Democrats and independents — as well as journalists — can make a difference by paying more attention. “Grass-roots organizers who are in support of democratic institutions,” he said on NPR, “could be doing what the Republicans are doing at the precinct and the county and the state level in terms of organizing to control election authorities to ensure that they remain nonpartisan or neutral.”
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So there were no divisions and burgeoning schisms until Trump? Got it.
I'm with you JWags. Trump was a poster child of the problems that had been brewing for quite some time. He was a marketer extraordinaire who took advantage of existing schisms to gain power, and maintain a stranglehold on that power. He did not create these problems, just made them more manifest.
I'm not sure when this schism really appeared to go down the 1-way road to where we are now, and am not sure what the exit ramp from this schism will look like.
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So there were no divisions and burgeoning schisms until Trump? Got it.
Division? Of course, that’s encouraged.
Schism is just another word for opinionated division so sure.
I can say for a certain that there were no white, suburban middle class led Insurrections until Trump them to it. Not too mention having a PowerPoint spelling out the steps to steal democracy from America because of the Insurrection.
Not that democrats will ever do anything to keep this from happening again, they’re just as guilty.
Keep flying that flag, friend.
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Where have I used stats to $hit on Illinois or Chicago? I could (for example, the net number of people who have moved out of the state in the last decade according to the last census), but I haven't. I might have said that I don't like Illinois and I am glad that I moved, but I don't believe I have never said anything derogatory about those who like it.
It's disingenuous to use statistics about a state in general to judge whether or not a person's move was a good decision. No one who voluntary relocates does it to reduce his quality of life.
You literally had me looking up CPS High school rankings defending that CPS isn't the utter trash you've claimed it to be... that'd fall under education. Years ago I recall a gun debate with you can't remember the specifics I just know it happened and that I posted that people from burbs that don't have it happening in their backyard shouldn't get a say to which you disagreed because it effects housing value. That'd fall under crime/violence. You've also mentioned the tax rates as well in the past but I'll agree on that one so don't have the specific situation at the ready.
Stats was the wrong word but picking and choosing which topics to post about would be accurate
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Keep flying that flag, friend.
Oh I’m MAGA now? Never voted for him, never defended or outspokenly stood up for him, and am on record here criticizing his BS countless times. But since I’m not holding him primarily accountable for the rampant divisiveness and chasms in this country, He’s my hero whose flag I fly?
Got it.
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Oh I’m MAGA now? Never voted for him, never defended or outspokenly stood up for him, and am on record here criticizing his BS countless times. But since I’m not holding him primarily accountable for the rampant divisiveness and chasms in this country, He’s my hero whose flag I fly?
Got it.
Don't ya know 2021 internet? If you dont blame orange man for literally everything, then you in fact are an incel who supports him.
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So there were no divisions and burgeoning schisms until Trump? Got it.
There were no coup attempts until trump.
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Oh I’m MAGA now? Never voted for him, never defended or outspokenly stood up for him, and am on record here criticizing his BS countless times. But since I’m not holding him primarily accountable for the rampant divisiveness and chasms in this country, He’s my hero whose flag I fly?
Got it.
Didn’t think I said that. Nope. Didn’t.
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So there were no divisions and burgeoning schisms until Trump? Got it.
Well there was no major birther movement till he did that as I recall. But I'd say the whole recent divide started and with the tea party formation and McCain (who I like previously) mainstreaming hardline right politicians with Palin and then allowing that uneducated lunacy to get popular.
Then violent militias were practically legitimized when the Bundy standoff happened and when they took over a town in North Dakota.
Just some random thoughts on the escalation over the past 15yrs
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Well there was no major birther movement till he did that as I recall. But I'd say the whole recent divide started and with the tea party formation and McCain (who I like previously) mainstreaming hardline right politicians with Palin and then allowing that uneducated lunacy to get popular.
Then violent militias were practically legitimized when the Bundy standoff happened and when they took over a town in North Dakota.
Just some random thoughts on the escalation over the past 15yrs
IMO...way before that. Newt Gingrich? Ronald Reagan?
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IMO...way before that. Newt Gingrich? Ronald Reagan?
I'm only 30. I might not have noticed it during bush or something but it just didn't seem as divided. But there's definitely not going to be any one starting point it's all a slow trend with a few major escalation moments.
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IMO...way before that. Newt Gingrich? Ronald Reagan?
Gingrich mastered the art if weoponizing politics. If we're looking for threads that lead to the modern day, he's a pretty good place to start
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Gingrich mastered the art if weoponizing politics. If we're looking for threads that lead to the modern day, he's a pretty good place to start
Was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. Newt was the genesis of the current divide, he decided to go scorched earth politics. However, even Newt never contemplated a violent overthrow of the U.S. government.
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
I don't mean this to sound as snarky as it probably will sound, but choosing one's home based on climate, tax burden and cost of living - not to mention choosing the right neighborhood - is a benefit of being a person of means.
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Gingrich mastered the art if weoponizing politics. If we're looking for threads that lead to the modern day, he's a pretty good place to start
I was going to say it was there before, but Gingrinch was the starting gun. The ego that he has, he even says "Your welcome" in an interview in The Atlantic a year or two ago
The Koch Brother funded fake "Tea Party" amplified.
Trump just said it out loud proudly and added violence and "sore loserism".
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I don't mean this to sound as snarky as it probably will sound, but choosing one's home based on climate, tax burden and cost of living - not to mention choosing the right neighborhood - is a benefit of being a person of means.
This isn’t snarky - just true. More means = more choices.
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https://youtu.be/-3_ALLadQ1M
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I don't mean this to sound as snarky as it probably will sound, but choosing one's home based on climate, tax burden and cost of living - not to mention choosing the right neighborhood - is a benefit of being a person of means.
The original discussion was about moving to a new location. As a general rule, people without means don't move from one state to another. And if they do, it's probably because they believe they can improve their situation.
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Gingrich mastered the art if weoponizing politics. If we're looking for threads that lead to the modern day, he's a pretty good place to start
I think Gingrich was the tipping point. But that was still a long time coming. If we want to find the nexus, I might go with Lyndon Johnson signing the civil rights act.
That led to Nixon employing the Southern Strategy and divided the nation between Liberal Democrats, and largely Southern Conservative Republicans. Reagan exploited this further, attacking how liberals were threatening America (attacks on Gays/Feminism).
Nixon and Reagan were the nexus of fear mongering about the dangers of liberals changing what made America great.
Gingrich extended this with a scorched Earth mentality, and the dawn of extreme personal attacks.
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So collectively, the Scoop Intelligentsia has managed to blame 50 years of Republicans and 0 democrats.
Y'all would be hilarious if you weren't so collectively stupid.
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Depends on exactly where you live. I wouldn't want to live in inner-city Memphis. But there are plenty of places that are highly ranked. There are affordable suburbs in the Nashville area that are safe, have great schools and are served by Vanderbilt healthcare.
Where are the numbers for tax burden? Climate? Cost of living?
This made me sad. I liked this place, plus the building was beautiful. Parking a nightmare though.
Flying Saucer taproom in downtown Nashville to close after 23 years
https://amp.tennessean.com/amp/8849854002
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So collectively, the Scoop Intelligentsia has managed to blame 50 years of Republicans and 0 democrats.
Y'all would be hilarious if you weren't so collectively stupid.
Fair and balanced eh
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So collectively, the Scoop Intelligentsia has managed to blame 50 years of Republicans and 0 democrats.
Y'all would be hilarious if you weren't so collectively stupid.
When Democrats attempt a violent overthrow of the U.S. government you can have a turn at pinpointing the starting point.
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When Democrats attempt a violent overthrow of the U.S. government you can have a turn at pinpointing the starting point.
🤡
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So collectively, the Scoop Intelligentsia has managed to blame 50 years of Republicans and 0 democrats.
Y'all would be hilarious if you weren't so collectively stupid.
I think you are being a bit disingenuous.
The divide did start with the signing of the Civil Rights act, by Johnson. That led to Nixon's Southern Strategy, and a clear demarcation between the parties. Before this, in the 50's, there were actually concerns the two parties were too similar and hard to distinguish from each other.
How the rest gets frameworked is going to inherently be shaped by the political lens you look through. Many find fault in the Rep strategy of fear mongering in relation to the "changing face" of America.
I find it hard to not view the two parties as below, but that is through my lens:
Democrats: We want to make America better.
Republicans: They want to take "your" great America away from you.
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When Democrats attempt a violent overthrow of the U.S. government you can have a turn at pinpointing the starting point.
When, as an arm of the #Resistance, the Republican Party attempts a coup/overthrow of the government based on information that they know is “trumped” up/phony you can jump right back up on your high horse.
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I don't mean this to sound as snarky as it probably will sound, but choosing one's home based on climate, tax burden and cost of living - not to mention choosing the right neighborhood - is a benefit of being a person of means.
You need to read about the Great Migration from the south to the Midwest and East. Those weren’t rich Caucasian folks looking for factory jobs in Chicago, Cleveland or Detroit.
Or the Okies moving to California during the rust bowl.
People move in search of Economic opportunity all the time. Look at Nashville’s population in 1970, versus now. Tennessee boys may like Tennessee girls, but not enough to more than double the region’s population. There aren’t that many Catholics or Mormons in the state. It’s economic opportunity, climate and quality of life that draws people there.
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So collectively, the Scoop Intelligentsia has managed to blame 50 years of Republicans and 0 democrats.
Y'all would be hilarious if you weren't so collectively stupid.
Let’s hear what you’ve got.
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When, as an arm of the #Resistance, the Republican Party attempts a coup/overthrow of the government based on information that they know is “trumped” up/phony you can jump right back up on your high horse.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. ???
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Tennessee state ranking:
Education - 33rd
Health - 40th
Homicide - 42nd
Violent crime - 48th
Economy - 16th
Poverty - 42nd
Paradise on earth, I tell you.
Seriously, I'm sure Tennessee is lovely if you're a person of means. But doesn't seem so swell for the average person.
We have a lot of business interests in Tennessee. The state is a great place to live and raise a family . We have a lot of exposure to all types of people in the state and there is a definitely a unique culture which I enjoy. Same as I enjoy the unique Wisconsin culture.
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When Democrats attempt a violent overthrow of the U.S. government you can have a turn at pinpointing the starting point.
Yeah, but at least Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity texted Mark Meadows, asking him to beg the then-White House occupant to stop his deadly coup attempt, so give 'em credit!
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You need to read about the Great Migration from the south to the Midwest and East. Those weren’t rich Caucasian folks looking for factory jobs in Chicago, Cleveland or Detroit.
Or the Okies moving to California during the rust bowl.
People move in search of Economic opportunity all the time. Look at Nashville’s population in 1970, versus now. Tennessee boys may like Tennessee girls, but not enough to more than double the region’s population. There aren’t that many Catholics or Mormons in the state. It’s economic opportunity, climate and quality of life that draws people there.
There are all sorts of articles out there about the decline labor mobility in the United States over the last fifty years. It's more expensive to move and people have a greater sense of "rootedness" than they did before. Furthermore labor mobility increases with education and income. (Theory being that people who make more money can travel back "home" more often.)
For instance, in 1960 only 20% of the people living in LA were born in California. It's now 70%.
This is why the unemployed person in West Virginia isn't moving to LA to take a job at the Port of LA.
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There are all sorts of articles out there about the decline labor mobility in the United States over the last fifty years. It's more expensive to move and people have a greater sense of "rootedness" than they did before. Furthermore labor mobility increases with education and income. (Theory being that people who make more money can travel back "home" more often.)
For instance, in 1960 only 20% of the people living in LA were born in California. It's now 70%.
This is why the unemployed person in West Virginia isn't moving to LA to take a job at the Port of LA.
An unemployed person in West Virginia isn't moving to LA because it's not affordable to live there and certainly less attractive to live there than it was years ago. There's a housing shortage, housing costs are through the roof, taxes are sky high, traffic congestion is the worst in the country, the homeless and drug addicts have taken over the streets, crime and gang activity is increasing and DAs won't prosecute criminals, etc.
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An unemployed person in West Virginia isn't moving to LA because it's not affordable to live there and certainly less attractive to live there than it was years ago. There's a housing shortage, housing costs are through the roof, taxes are sky high, traffic congestion is the worst in the country, the homeless and drug addicts have taken over the streets, crime and gang activity is increasing and DAs won't prosecute criminals, etc.
Yet people still move there. Weird.
Anyway, you can change the location all you want. Its the same issue.
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Yet people still move there. Weird.
Clearly people still do, but I would be curious to see demographic trends of people moving to LA/SF. SF is a bit different due to the preponderance of tech industry jobs, but everyone I know that moved to LA was younger and unmarried at the time, save for married friends of mine but that was home for them. Weather, fun culture, entertainment industry aspirations, etc.. are all a draw to a younger demo but then fades a bit with age and other obligations.
My greater set of friends in LA is predominantly a mid 30s set of business professionals who met through various USC undergrad and business school connections and about a quarter of them have migrated out in the last 2-3 years including a pair of native Angelenos who moved to Denver and Dallas.
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I'm only 30. I might not have noticed it during bush or something but it just didn't seem as divided. But there's definitely not going to be any one starting point it's all a slow trend with a few major escalation moments.
it was, but there wasn't social media to bring it into the open.
Poll after poll is showing people who don't want to live next to people with different political beliefs, date people with political beliefs, shop at stores who supports certain candidates, etc. The biggest divide is amongst young people (the social media generation) and by left leaning individuals who overwhelmingly won't associate with people of a different political stance. https://www.newsweek.com/71-percent-democrats-college-wouldnt-date-trump-voter-poll-finds-1657145
It seems the "party of tolerance" is the least tolerant and most in favor of segregation based upon political beliefs.
A new poll released Tuesday revealed that 71 percent of Democrats in college would not date someone who voted for former President Donald Trump.
The poll also showed that only 31 percent of college GOP members said they wouldn't date someone who voted for President Joe Biden.
Beyond dating, the new poll also examined other aspects of social life among politically active college students in regards to those with opposite views.
When it comes to either shopping at or supporting the business of a Trump voter, the poll revealed that 41 percent of Democrats would not do so, compared to just seven percent of Republicans unwilling to do business with a Biden voter.
In terms of the office, the poll found that again, many more Democrats were unwilling to work for a Trump voter, 30 percent, than Republicans were unwilling to work for a Biden voter, only 7 percent.
Beyond the professional space, the poll even examined the willingness of college students to be friends with someone who voted for the opposite candidate. Of those responding in this category, 37 percent of Democrats said they wouldn't be friends with a Trump voter, but only 5 percent of Republicans said the same about a Biden voter.
And we're even moving backwards when it comes to race relations. In the aftermath of a racial hoax at Smith College, the ACLU demanded segregated residence halls. More colleges are moving in that direction too at the request of Black students. Sad stuff.
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Clearly people still do, but I would be curious to see demographic trends of people moving to LA/SF. SF is a bit different due to the preponderance of tech industry jobs, but everyone I know that moved to LA was younger and unmarried at the time, save for married friends of mine but that was home for them. Weather, fun culture, entertainment industry aspirations, etc.. are all a draw to a younger demo but then fades a bit with age and other obligations.
My greater set of friends in LA is predominantly a mid 30s set of business professionals who met through various USC undergrad and business school connections and about a quarter of them have migrated out in the last 2-3 years including a pair of native Angelenos who moved to Denver and Dallas.
Not sure how accurate this is, as I found it on the interwebs.
https://www.ppic.org/blog/whos-leaving-california-and-whos-moving-in/ (https://www.ppic.org/blog/whos-leaving-california-and-whos-moving-in/)
And please no jokes about correlating the theory that smarter people are moving to California, and less intelligent are leaving to Chicos moving to Idaho.
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It seems the "party of tolerance" is the least tolerant and most in favor of segregation based upon political beliefs.
Tolerance doesn't mean I have to be friends with or date aholes. Or as this piece says, if you want attention from liberals, "try sucking less".
https://www.salon.com/2021/12/08/young-democrats-are-right-there-is-no-reason-to-date-or-befriend/
"On the right, there was a lot of trumpeting how this supposedly proves the left are the ones who are "really" intolerant. Radio talker Matt Murphy whined that liberals "don't believe in our republic cannot abide people who think differently than them." As if not getting to have sex with or go to parties with liberals is exactly the same as having your basic rights as a citizen stripped from you.
Relatedly, a Harvard poll from last week shows "[m]ore than half of young Americans feel democracy in the country is under threat, and over a third think they may see a second U.S. civil war within their lifetimes." This isn't about a dispute over marginal tax rates. If you — quite correctly — believe that Republicans are plotting to destroy democracy, then why would you want to be friends with people who support that?
And that gets to the crux of it: Dating and friendship aren't about merely tolerating someone, it's about inviting someone into your life, as a confidante or even on an intimate level. Relationships take work to maintain. Why waste that effort on someone who can't meet the baseline requirement of seeing you or the other people in your life as full human beings?
The anger on the right over this polling, in turn, shows that this isn't really about liberal "intolerance," but an ugly sense of entitlement among conservatives. It's fueled by a belief that they should be as obnoxious, cruel, and bigoted as they want, without having to pay any social penalty for it.
Sure, conservatives can and occasionally entertain the idea of creating their own social networks and even universities, so they can hang out with each other, instead of constantly demanding attention from liberals. But apparently, they don't like each other's company any more than liberals do, and so they always circle back to yelling at liberals, accusing the left of "intolerance" for finding right-wingers unpleasant people to be around.
Ultimately, however, it comes back to this: No one is entitled to anyone else's social attention or friendship, much less a dating relationship with them. If friendships and romantic relationships with progressive are so desirable — which, as a progressive, I totally agree is true! — then the way to obtain them is to suck less."
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That led to Nixon employing the Southern Strategy and divided the nation between Liberal Democrats, and largely Southern Conservative Republicans. Reagan exploited this further, attacking how liberals were threatening America (attacks on Gays/Feminism).
One minor correction. The strategy divided Liberal Democrats and Southern Democrats (Dixiecrats) who then became Southern Conservative Republicans. Back then, Southern Dems were as racist as any republican.
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Tolerance doesn't mean I have to be friends with or date aholes. Or as this piece says, if you want attention from liberals, "try sucking less".
https://www.salon.com/2021/12/08/young-democrats-are-right-there-is-no-reason-to-date-or-befriend/
"On the right, there was a lot of trumpeting how this supposedly proves the left are the ones who are "really" intolerant. Radio talker Matt Murphy whined that liberals "don't believe in our republic cannot abide people who think differently than them." As if not getting to have sex with or go to parties with liberals is exactly the same as having your basic rights as a citizen stripped from you.
Relatedly, a Harvard poll from last week shows "[m]ore than half of young Americans feel democracy in the country is under threat, and over a third think they may see a second U.S. civil war within their lifetimes." This isn't about a dispute over marginal tax rates. If you — quite correctly — believe that Republicans are plotting to destroy democracy, then why would you want to be friends with people who support that?
And that gets to the crux of it: Dating and friendship aren't about merely tolerating someone, it's about inviting someone into your life, as a confidante or even on an intimate level. Relationships take work to maintain. Why waste that effort on someone who can't meet the baseline requirement of seeing you or the other people in your life as full human beings?
The anger on the right over this polling, in turn, shows that this isn't really about liberal "intolerance," but an ugly sense of entitlement among conservatives. It's fueled by a belief that they should be as obnoxious, cruel, and bigoted as they want, without having to pay any social penalty for it.
Sure, conservatives can and occasionally entertain the idea of creating their own social networks and even universities, so they can hang out with each other, instead of constantly demanding attention from liberals. But apparently, they don't like each other's company any more than liberals do, and so they always circle back to yelling at liberals, accusing the left of "intolerance" for finding right-wingers unpleasant people to be around.
Ultimately, however, it comes back to this: No one is entitled to anyone else's social attention or friendship, much less a dating relationship with them. If friendships and romantic relationships with progressive are so desirable — which, as a progressive, I totally agree is true! — then the way to obtain them is to suck less."
But thats broad brush nonsense. Not even non-liberal is plotting to destroy democracy. Not every right leaning younger person is Alex P Keaton. It literally synonyms and directly aligns "conservative" and "bigoted"
Ive seen plenty of people in my own friend groups who like to inject or bring politics into everything from IG stories to Twitter posts to casual conversation and then jettison anyone who doesn't full throatedly agree. This article make it seem like you're either a Young Democrat or f-ing Charlie Kirk, when in reality there are lots of young ultra progressives who don't want anything to do with people who supported Joe Biden in the primaries cause he was too centrist.
But then again, its Salon.com which is quite slanted.
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But thats broad brush nonsense. Not even non-liberal is plotting to destroy democracy. Not every right leaning younger person is Alex P Keaton. It literally synonyms and directly aligns "conservative" and "bigoted"
Ive seen plenty of people in my own friend groups who like to inject or bring politics into everything from IG stories to Twitter posts to casual conversation and then jettison anyone who doesn't full throatedly agree. This article make it seem like you're either a Young Democrat or f-ing Charlie Kirk, when in reality there are lots of young ultra progressives who don't want anything to do with people who supported Joe Biden in the primaries cause he was too centrist.
But then again, its Salon.com which is quite slanted.
exactly. Salon and HuffPost might as well be employees of the Trump 2024 campaign since they provide so much publicity to him.
As for the "destroy democracy" comment, pure hyperbole. Plus, isn't the right trumpeting communism in the US.
Some of my closest friends voted for Trump. I don't judge them for that. Our friendships are based on greater things, specifically MU hoops. I have other friends who want AOC to be President someday, as ridiculous as that is. I don't judge someone based upon their political beliefs, which the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is now doing (especially minorities who believe differently than they do) in wanting to create their own separate society.
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But thats broad brush nonsense. Not even non-liberal is plotting to destroy democracy. Not every right leaning younger person is Alex P Keaton. It literally synonyms and directly aligns "conservative" and "bigoted"
Ive seen plenty of people in my own friend groups who like to inject or bring politics into everything from IG stories to Twitter posts to casual conversation and then jettison anyone who doesn't full throatedly agree. This article make it seem like you're either a Young Democrat or f-ing Charlie Kirk, when in reality there are lots of young ultra progressives who don't want anything to do with people who supported Joe Biden in the primaries cause he was too centrist.
But then again, its Salon.com which is quite slanted.
If you look at the survey, it specifically says "Trump voters". I think that label immediately brings to mind a person aligned with Trump and his beliefs, if you can call them that. Trump voters are very different from what might traditionally be associated with conservatives.
Alex Keaton would be perfectly fine to hang around with; Alex Keaton had actual rational policies, that agree or disagree with, you could have a rational discussion about. That is no longer the case with the Republican party whose 2020 platform was literally "whatever Trump says". As the author says, this isn't about a disagreement over marginal tax policy, nor budget proposals or foreign policy. The Trumpsters don't give a crap about any of that; they revel in their resentment, hate, and nationalism and that's about it.
So when right wingers whine that progressives not wanting to have anything to do with them shows intolerance, they are wrong: we just don't wish to associate with obnoxious a$$holes.
You are a rational conservative who I imagine I could have a rational discussion with even though we would probably wouldn't agree most of the time. Chick and glow also strike me as the same. But a Trumpster? Not worth wasting one second on socially.
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As for the "destroy democracy" comment, pure hyperbole. Plus, isn't the right trumpeting communism in the US.
Read.the.PowerPoint.
If trying to overthrow the results of a democratic election and install the loser isn't destroying democracy I'm not sure what qualifies.
Does it not count just because they were unsuccessful? A mistake Republican legislatures are trying to ensure isn't repeated by taking control over election outcomes.
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Read.the.PowerPoint.
If trying to overthrow the results of a democratic election and install the loser isn't destroying democracy I'm not sure what qualifies.
Does it not count just because they were unsuccessful? A mistake Republican legislatures are trying to ensure isn't repeated by taking control over election outcomes.
January 6th was about states rights
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Trump voters are very different from what might traditionally be associated with conservatives.
Yep.
There is an entire GOP "Never Trump" movement, and it encompasses hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Republicans. They are mostly Reagan conservatives, life-long Republicans (at least until recently), who hate that Trump and his cultists co-opted their party. They played a big role in him losing in 2020, as did suburban Republicans in swing states.
Liz Cheney's voting record shows her to be one of the most conservative members of Congress. She was one of 17 House or Senate members to vote to impeach Trump for his treasonous coup attempt, and she has continued to try to get the party out of his grip. For that, the people who rail against "cancel culture" have canceled her.
Some of the most well-known conservative names -- the Bushes, the Cheneys, George Will, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, etc -- don't (or didn't) support Trump.
My very best friend, also Marquette class of '82, is a life-long Republican whose father and grandfather were cops and Republicans. He voted for Trump in 2016 under the heading of "There's no way I'm voting for Hillary. Trump's a clown, but how bad could he be?" Then, when Trump turned out to be the worst president of our lifetimes, he voted for Biden, even as he voted for non-Trumpster Republicans elsewhere on his ballot. He's ashamed of the way he voted in 2016, and he can't even bring himself to say Trump's name.
One of my best Charlotte friends is a Republican lobbyist for the banking industry ... or he used to be a very proud conservative Republican. After 4+ years of Trumpism, "I didn't leave the party; the party left me." He's now Unaffiliated, which is what NC calls independents.
It makes a LOT of Republicans sick that they are immediately associated with a racist, narcissistic lunatic who wants to be king.
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Yep.
There is an entire GOP "Never Trump" movement, and it encompasses hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Republicans. They are mostly Reagan conservatives, life-long Republicans (at least until recently), who hate that Trump and his cultists co-opted their party. They played a big role in him losing in 2020, as did suburban Republicans in swing states.
Liz Cheney's voting record shows her to be one of the most conservative members of Congress. She was one of 17 House or Senate members to vote to impeach Trump for his treasonous coup attempt, and she has continued to try to get the party out of his grip. For that, the people who rail against "cancel culture" have canceled her.
Some of the most well-known conservative names -- the Bushes, the Cheneys, George Will, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, etc -- don't (or didn't) support Trump.
My very best friend, also Marquette class of '82, is a life-long Republican whose father and grandfather were cops and Republicans. He voted for Trump in 2016 under the heading of "There's no way I'm voting for Hillary. Trump's a clown, but how bad could he be?" Then, when Trump turned out to be the worst president of our lifetimes, he voted for Biden, even as he voted for non-Trumpster Republicans elsewhere on his ballot. He's ashamed of the way he voted in 2016, and he can't even bring himself to say Trump's name.
One of my best Charlotte friends is a Republican lobbyist for the banking industry ... or he used to be a very proud conservative Republican. After 4+ years of Trumpism, "I didn't leave the party; the party left me." He's now Unaffiliated, which is what NC calls independents.
It makes a LOT of Republicans sick that they are immediately associated with a racist, narcissistic lunatic who wants to be king.
Yeah, I think quite a few people who voted for Trump in 2016 were hedging their bets. They thought there is no way he can win, and if Hillary screws the pooch, they can always say, "Well I didn't vote for her". Also, just my opinion, I think there will be a legitimate third party waaaay before this country divides into smaller countries.