Waukesha Christmas Parade

[wadesworld]

In seeing the go fund me pages for some of the kids hurt yesterday, it looks like a number of them suffered brain injuries/trauma .  That's not surprising based on what happened but still hard to read.  Hoping for the best for recovery for all the injured.

Sadly this is true.

[MuggsyB]

Horrible.  I hope Marquette and the Bucks do all they can to help the families and those suffering. 

[Marquette Fan]

A nice article on the victims, specifically one of the Dancing Grannies

https://www.nytimes.com/article/waukesha-parade-victims.html

Tamara Durand was in her first performance with the Dancing Grannies .  I've taken my kids to this parade for many years and I always remember the Dancing Grannies - they always seemed to love what they do.

My daughters and I went to the Vigil Service at Cutler Park tonight - lots of people there.  Sad that there was a need for that but it was a nice service.

[Pakuni]

I can't think of another example where the perpetrator of a mass killing of random people decided to do it moments before committing the act.

There are many, many examples of people driving into crowds having decided to do it moments before committing the act.

Like this one.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/james-alex-fields-driver-deadly-car-attack-charlottesville-rally-sentenced-n1024436

And this one.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seattle-car-drives-into-protesters-i-5-summer-taylor-2020-07-05/

And this one.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/driver-arrested-after-plowing-new-york-city-protesters-injuring-6-n1250993

And this one.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/06/14/one-dead-after-driver-crashes-into-protesters-in-uptown-minneapolis

And this one.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/woman-who-drove-2-children-because-their-race-gets-25-n1277303

And this one.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adacia-chambers-oklahoma-state-homecoming-crash-sentenced/

[Goose]

Pakuni

These are your examples of someone deciding to run people over on a whim? Boozeman is spot on that the other cowards did not decide at the last minute to commit mass murder and they were not good comparisons to the parade incident. I think the links you shared are reaching quite a bit.

Again, I have no idea if he planned this out weeks ago or at the time he entered the parade route. But, I do maintain that I do not think he made a wrong turn while fleeing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Pakuni

These are your examples of someone deciding to run people over on a whim? Boozeman is spot on that the other cowards did not decide at the last minute to commit mass murder and they were not good comparisons to the parade incident. I think the links you shared are reaching quite a bit.

Again, I have no idea if he planned this out weeks ago or at the time he entered the parade route. But, I do maintain that I do not think he made a wrong turn while fleeing.

Goose:

Leave it to that lunatic poster to try to excuse/whatabout this away.  Twisted individual. Character Revealed indeed.

[Babybluejeans]

It doesn't matter what you think about the driver's motive. What it actually was will unfold as more evidence is established—at this stage, it's just speculation that distracts from the larger tragedy. Not worth getting ruffled over.

[rocket surgeon]

Eye witness accounts state that he had a look in his eye of focusing on people and maneuvering not to avoid, but to hit them.  If he just happened upon this parade mistakenly, there would have been some attempt at avoidance and exit at earliest convenience.

Here, he created mass havoc, to say the least, drew more attention to himself and then exited. Oh, and by the way, he seemed to have a problem with cars and using them as weapons against his adversaries...case in point- one of the charges he was most recently up for and bailed out on

[Pakuni]

Again, I have no idea if he planned this out weeks ago or at the time he entered the parade route. But, I do maintain that I do not think he made a wrong turn while fleeing.

Goose

Who here said he made a wrong turn while fleeing?

[Pakuni]

Goose:

Leave it to that lunatic poster to try to excuse/whatabout this away.  Twisted individual. Character Revealed indeed.

I'd call you intellectually dishonest here, but that would wrongly imply you have any intellect.

[Goose]

Pakuni

Let's agree to disagree. I have no agenda on my posts, only stating how I feel. Regardless of motive, it was a horrible situation that stole lives and caused long term damage to families. I doubt if we will ever know the whole story and hopefully he will be punished far harsher than his bail was for previous crimes.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni

Let's agree to disagree. I have no agenda on my posts, only stating how I feel. Regardless of motive, it was a horrible situation that stole lives and caused long term damage to families. I doubt if we will ever know the whole story and hopefully he will be punished far harsher than his bail was for previous crimes.

Goose

I'm not entirely sure what you think we disagree about, but I agree with everything you wrote above.

[NCMUFan]

Is there a difference whether someone thought about it the previous week to mow people down with their vehicle and then carry it out or if they see people and decide to drive into them spur of the moment?

[Hards Alumni]

Goose

I'm not entirely sure what you think we disagree about, but I agree with everything you wrote above.

What started this all was CountryRoads' assertion that we will never know the suspect's true intention.

[Pakuni]

What started this all was CountryRoads' assertion that we will never know the suspect's true intention.

His assertion was that Waukesha police were covering up the truth and for some reason attempting to shift the blame on other police.

He wrote:
Most likely an attempt to move the attention away from the suspect's true motive, which will probably never be formally revealed unfortunately. It also seems like a weak attempt at creating a narrative that police were currently in pursuit of the suspect and should shoulder some of the responsibility for the tragedy.

[The Sultan]

Is there a difference whether someone thought about it the previous week to mow people down with their vehicle and then carry it out or if they see people and decide to drive into them spur of the moment?

Fundamentally no.  Legally there is a likely difference between first and second degree murder, but he will be in prison for the rest of his life regardless of the charge.

[tower912]

It is a tragedy.   Thoughts and prayers to all involved, all who have lost, all who have a long recovery in front of them and to their families and friends.     It just plain sucks.   

These really can't be prevented.    Bad people do bad things.    Drunk people do drunk things.   Careless people do careless things.   Angry people do angry things.     Looking from the outside, a person with a long history of anti-social behavior made yet another in a long series of bad, hurtful choices.     Lock him up.    Melt the key.   

Looking at it from a first responder perspective, the challenge now is what lessons can be learned and how can responses be improved?    We (first responders) take it as a matter of faith that eventually the roulette wheel is going to land on you and your community.    The mass shootings, school shootings, riots, drunks driving into crowds, guy off his meds taking revenge on all of his ex girlfriends and their families in one day (hand raised over here)..... eventually the bad finds you.     How are you going to manage it?      This is why I defend the police (and not defund).

Can it all be prevented?   Never.    But you definitely want people in your community who have game planned, table topped, practiced for it.     And you want those people to be able to learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others in order to perform their duties better when the alarms go off.     So, if you want to do something productive, contact your first responders.    Ask them about their preparations.     And if you really want to go the extra mile, ask how you can help.     

I grieve for the families and friends of the Waukesha victims.    As should we all.     But there will be another disaster/catastrophe next week/month.   

[CountryRoads]

His assertion was that Waukesha police were covering up the truth and for some reason attempting to shift the blame on other police.

He wrote:
Most likely an attempt to move the attention away from the suspect's true motive, which will probably never be formally revealed unfortunately. It also seems like a weak attempt at creating a narrative that police were currently in pursuit of the suspect and should shoulder some of the responsibility for the tragedy.

I don't know how you conclude that from what I wrote. I even clarified in a separate post and apologized for causing a stir about it. That was like a day ago, so I'm not sure why it's still being discussed. I haven't read the posts in this thread since then.

[Pakuni]

I don't know how you conclude that from what I wrote. I even clarified in a separate post and apologized for causing a stir about it. That was like a day ago, so I'm not sure why it's still being discussed. I haven't read the posts in this thread since then.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your post, but it says what it says.

[muwarrior69]

It is a tragedy.   Thoughts and prayers to all involved, all who have lost, all who have a long recovery in front of them and to their families and friends.     It just plain sucks.   

These really can't be prevented.    Bad people do bad things.    Drunk people do drunk things.   Careless people do careless things.   Angry people do angry things.     Looking from the outside, a person with a long history of anti-social behavior made yet another in a long series of bad, hurtful choices.     Lock him up.    Melt the key.   

Looking at it from a first responder perspective, the challenge now is what lessons can be learned and how can responses be improved?    We (first responders) take it as a matter of faith that eventually the roulette wheel is going to land on you and your community.    The mass shootings, school shootings, riots, drunks driving into crowds, guy off his meds taking revenge on all of his ex girlfriends and their families in one day (hand raised over here)..... eventually the bad finds you.     How are you going to manage it?      This is why I defend the police (and not defund).

Can it all be prevented?   Never.    But you definitely want people in your community who have game planned, table topped, practiced for it.     And you want those people to be able to learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others in order to perform their duties better when the alarms go off.     So, if you want to do something productive, contact your first responders.    Ask them about their preparations.     And if you really want to go the extra mile, ask how you can help.     

I grieve for the families and friends of the Waukesha victims.    As should we all.     But there will be another disaster/catastrophe next week/month.   

The issue is not with the first responders. It is the DAs that let these folks back out on the street. From what I can tell only 4 people have been charged with arson during the Kenosha riots, none for causing the fires at the used car lots. If I am wrong about that please enlighten me.

Even high end retail outlets are now being robbed in broad daylight in San Francisco. How a larger police presence is going to prevent this is absurd if the DA won't prosecute thefts under 1K.

https://abc7news.com/sf-looting-union-square-crime-san-francisco-louis-vuitton-looted-robbed/11263563/

[The Sultan]

The issue is not with the first responders. It is the DAs that let these folks back out on the street. From what I can tell only 4 people have been charged with arson during the Kenosha riots, none for causing the fires at the used car lots. If I am wrong about that please enlighten me.

Even high end retail outlets are now being robbed in broad daylight in San Francisco. How a larger police presence is going to prevent this is absurd if the DA won't prosecute thefts under 1K.

https://abc7news.com/sf-looting-union-square-crime-san-francisco-louis-vuitton-looted-robbed/11263563/

The DA is prosecuting thefts under 1K.  Where do you get this?

[Skatastrophy]

It is a tragedy.   Thoughts and prayers to all involved, all who have lost, all who have a long recovery in front of them and to their families and friends.     It just plain sucks.   

These really can't be prevented.    Bad people do bad things.    Drunk people do drunk things.   Careless people do careless things.   Angry people do angry things.     Looking from the outside, a person with a long history of anti-social behavior made yet another in a long series of bad, hurtful choices.     Lock him up.    Melt the key.   

Looking at it from a first responder perspective, the challenge now is what lessons can be learned and how can responses be improved?    We (first responders) take it as a matter of faith that eventually the roulette wheel is going to land on you and your community.    The mass shootings, school shootings, riots, drunks driving into crowds, guy off his meds taking revenge on all of his ex girlfriends and their families in one day (hand raised over here)..... eventually the bad finds you.     How are you going to manage it?      This is why I defend the police (and not defund).

Can it all be prevented?   Never.    But you definitely want people in your community who have game planned, table topped, practiced for it.     And you want those people to be able to learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others in order to perform their duties better when the alarms go off.     So, if you want to do something productive, contact your first responders.    Ask them about their preparations.     And if you really want to go the extra mile, ask how you can help.     

I grieve for the families and friends of the Waukesha victims.    As should we all.     But there will be another disaster/catastrophe next week/month.   

Chicago has Streets & Sanitation involved in all major events now. Having lived by Grant Park for a few years, they marshall the plows/garbage/salt trucks to block the streets for marathons & festivals where there are tons of people on the major streets.

It's hard to know what prevention measures are overkill and which aren't, but parking a truck in a new spot to block a road for a few hours seems like a small investment... Not that it would definitely stop someone in a small car that's determined, but it would make it hard for something like the 2016 Berlin attack to happen.

[tower912]

I get that.  Big, covers the end of a side street. This guy drove around barricades like the kind my city uses. I've seen that done by impatient dumb people with no ill intent.

There are laws offering protection for those who drive into protesters.

https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/22/us/oklahoma-law-drivers-protesters/index.html

[Sir Lawrence]

One more death:

https://www.tmj4.com/news/waukesha-christmas-parade/8-year-old-dies-from-injuries-suffered-in-waukesha-christmas-parade-tragedy

So sad.

[Lighthouse 84]

The DA is prosecuting thefts under 1K.  Where do you get this?

Technically, they do.  But under $950, it's only a misdemeanor and results in little to no prosecution or punishment.