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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 318755 times)

Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2300 on: June 02, 2023, 02:58:10 PM »
I only get a 25 minute lunch before the freshmen come back to my classroom.  Cut me some slack.

Its a Friday afternoon. Put on a movie.

mug644

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2301 on: June 02, 2023, 03:11:05 PM »
I only get a 25 minute lunch before the freshmen come back to my classroom.  Cut me some slack.

You got it. I wasn't trying to cut down the idea--I also find it to be a "great idea, will never happen" concept. Was genuinely thinking maybe you had a reason.

pbiflyer

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2302 on: June 02, 2023, 05:59:17 PM »
Its a Friday afternoon. Put on a movie.

Teacher of the year!

muwarrior69

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2303 on: June 04, 2023, 07:20:33 AM »
For those who don't understand what SaveOD did, he listed the teams in order of last season's KenPom finish

So your KenPom score will determine what division you end up in for the following season.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2304 on: June 04, 2023, 07:31:33 AM »
So your KenPom score will determine what division you end up in for the following season.

No. That’s just initially how he distributed them.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2305 on: June 04, 2023, 07:34:33 AM »
The Big East has to decide if it wants to have the best basketball conference top to bottom or have the best media deal.

At this point, inventory will be a bigger driver of value to the networks than individual team selection. With 11 teams today, the Big East offers media partners 10 to 11 games per week.  If UConn leaves and you replace them with two new teams, inventory will increase to 12 games/week--and as discussions here have shown, there really aren't two teams you can add without diluting the quality of the league.   And you're not really increasing inventory that much.

Thinking out loud, the most lucrative deal from a league standpoint might be to merge with the WCC to form a 20-team league and offer the networks a solid 4-game block on your game days.  First game at 6 PM local on the east coast, the second at 8 PM eastern/7 Central, the third at 9 Central/7 Pacific, and the fourth at 9 Pacific.  That would give Val more negotiating power with the nets via a doubling of the inventory she can offer.

To protect the current BE teams, you play an unbalanced schedule so you could feature your marquee matchups (Villanova/Gonzaga, Marquette Santa Clara, Creighton/St. Marys) but limit dilution of the NET ratings from playing Pepperdine or Pacific.

Networks aren’t going to make it worthwhile to add a ton of content that people aren’t going to watch. I would guess the audience for even bad BE games is way bigger than the typical WCC game.
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Otule's Glass Eye

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2306 on: June 04, 2023, 01:26:19 PM »
Honestly any expansion is about maximizing media rights revenue.  As you approach the next deal, you figure out with potential partners what will be the most lucrative adds. It doesn't matter if that's VCU, SLU or Dayton.

Do you think Dayton stands a chance considering they are close to the Cincinnati TV market which we already have in Xavier? They have proved to be a yearly competitive basketball school

Otule's Glass Eye

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2307 on: June 04, 2023, 01:32:34 PM »
Networks aren’t going to make it worthwhile to add a ton of content that people aren’t going to watch. I would guess the audience for even bad BE games is way bigger than the typical WCC game.

Agreed, I think Big east keeps it simple and adds 2 best available basketball only school untouched TV markets for now (assuming UCONN is gone taking us to 10 teams) rather than overloading on way too many useless WCC schools. Assuming this is what plays out I think Saint Louis is most obvious candidate with VCU, Davidson and Dayton next 3 best candidates? This is also factoring in geography and travel but if they throw that out there is many West Coast candidates (San Francisco, San Diego, etc)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 01:37:51 PM by Otule's Glass Eye »

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2308 on: June 04, 2023, 01:53:38 PM »
Agreed, I think Big east keeps it simple and adds 2 best available basketball only school untouched TV markets for now (assuming UCONN is gone taking us to 10 teams) rather than overloading on way too many useless WCC schools. Assuming this is what plays out I think Saint Louis is most obvious candidate with VCU, Davidson and Dayton next 3 best candidates? This is also factoring in geography and travel but if they throw that out there is many West Coast candidates (San Francisco, San Diego, etc)

Personally, as we move into more of a streaming reality, I think markets are less important than the number of eyeballs a program will draw. Davidson has a nice history, but they have fewer than 2,000 undergrads. Their alumni base is tiny. Without Gonzaga level success, no one is bothering to watch them.

I think the more obvious push and pull is VCU and Dayton. VCU likely has a larger alumni base than St. Louis, Dayton, and Davidson combined. Georgetown would probably fight their inclusion, but I'd guess the other East Coast schools would prefer them to a Gonzaga or SLU that really amps up the travel. Focused on basketball, large alumni base, they might be the biggest needle mover. The drawback is they are a public school, but UConn broke that duck already.

If they avoid a public school, there are pros and cons to both Dayton and SLU, but even though it's Scoop anathema, Dayton makes more sense than SLU. Stronger historical program, more dedicated fanbase, easier to sell as a Midwest add to the East Coast schools.

But personally...I think if we go back to 10, you stay there unless someone really obvious is there. I would rather stay at 10 and go back to an 18-game schedule than add a VCU, Dayton, or SLU. If you can get Gonzaga, you think about it. If you can get Notre Dame when the ACC collapses, you immediately do that. But adding to add is a loser's gambit.
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WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2309 on: June 04, 2023, 01:54:47 PM »
A. I think the possibilities of UCONN to the Big XII are very slim. I read an article this weekend that the Big XII is "targeting tradition rich UCONN, Villanova and Marquette"; I don't buy it.

B. SLU and Dayton do nothing (for me) as expansion candidates.  Backfill schools, if we loose teams, yes, but not for expansion. Plus the Big East could have added them at any time if they were viable. People smarter about this stuff don't think much of them as BE members.

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2310 on: June 04, 2023, 01:56:29 PM »
A. I think the possibilities of UCONN to the Big XII are very slim. I read an article this weekend that the Big XII is "targeting tradition rich UCONN, Villanova and Marquette"; I don't buy it.

B. SLU and Dayton do nothing (for me) as expansion candidates.  Backfill schools, if we loose teams, yes, but not for expansion. Plus the Big East could have added them at any time if they were viable. People smarter about this stuff don't think much of them as BE members.

Well said. Agree on both points.
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🏀

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2311 on: June 04, 2023, 02:17:47 PM »
anathema

All the UDPride lurkers had to Google this one.

PointWarrior

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2312 on: June 04, 2023, 03:23:12 PM »
So your KenPom score will determine what division you end up in for the following season.

That would be awesome, finally something meaningful to use KenPom for…

Uncle Rico

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2313 on: June 04, 2023, 06:39:44 PM »
That would be awesome, finally something meaningful to use KenPom for…

Coaches use it for scheduling and scouting, including Shaka Smart
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Dickthedribbler

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2314 on: June 04, 2023, 07:52:04 PM »
Do you think Dayton stands a chance considering they are close to the Cincinnati TV market which we already have in Xavier? They have proved to be a yearly competitive basketball school

Dayton wouldn't stand a chance if they were 500 miles from the nearest TV market.

They've been available every day for the last 11 years. I would take that as a sign of no interest on the part of the Big East.

El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2315 on: June 04, 2023, 08:00:21 PM »
Dayton wouldn't stand a chance if they were 500 miles from the nearest TV market.

They've been available every day for the last 11 years. I would take that as a sign of no interest on the part of the Big East.

I’d literally take Detroit Mercy before Dayton.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2316 on: June 04, 2023, 08:02:39 PM »
Dayton wouldn't stand a chance if they were 500 miles from the nearest TV market.

They've been available every day for the last 11 years. I would take that as a sign of no interest on the part of the Big East.

Rutgers was available for 20+ years, prtically begging for a Big Ten invite. They finally got one when they served a media rights purpose.

It’s likely Dayton doesn’t get an invite, but the fact they have it got one in the past isn’t really evidence of anything. If it makes their upcoming media deal more lucrative per school, the invite will come.


I’d literally take Detroit Mercy before Dayton.

🙄🙄🙄 And that’s why you’re not a conference commissioner. Even Dayton’s current conference has no interest in Detroit Mercy.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 08:04:12 PM by The Sultan of Semantics »
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El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2317 on: June 04, 2023, 08:07:23 PM »
Rutgers was available for 20+ years, prtically begging for a Big Ten invite. They finally got one when they served a media rights purpose.

It’s likely Dayton doesn’t get an invite, but the fact they have it got one in the past isn’t really evidence of anything. If it makes their upcoming media deal more lucrative per school, the invite will come.


🙄🙄🙄 And that’s why you’re not a conference commissioner. Even Dayton’s current conference has no interest in Detroit Mercy.

Your post is internally inconsistent, do you realize that? Dayton is a city of 150k. Detroit is a city of 3.5 million.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2318 on: June 04, 2023, 08:20:33 PM »
Your post is internally inconsistent, do you realize that? Dayton is a city of 150k. Detroit is a city of 3.5 million.

Using Detroit Mercy to capture the Detroit market is like using Mount Mary to capture Milwaukee.

It’s not just about size of market. It’s about the eyeballs that watch. I guarantee you more people tune into to watch Dayton than Detroit.
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Dickthedribbler

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2319 on: June 04, 2023, 08:25:14 PM »
Rutgers was available for 20+ years, prtically begging for a Big Ten invite. They finally got one when they served a media rights purpose.

It’s likely Dayton doesn’t get an invite, but the fact they have it got one in the past isn’t really evidence of anything. If it makes their upcoming media deal more lucrative per school, the invite will come.


🙄🙄🙄 And that’s why you’re not a conference commissioner. Even Dayton’s current conference has no interest in Detroit Mercy.

At a minimum, its evidence that in 2012-13 the so called "Catholic 7" had significant interest in Creighton, Xavier and Butler and no interest in Dayton.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2320 on: June 04, 2023, 08:27:37 PM »
At a minimum, its evidence that in 2012-13 the so called "Catholic 7" had significant interest in Creighton, Xavier and Butler and no interest in Dayton.

No doubt.
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tower912

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2321 on: June 04, 2023, 08:55:13 PM »
According to UDPride, the question was whether Dayton was willing to lower themselves to associate with the Catholic 7.

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brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2322 on: June 04, 2023, 09:19:04 PM »
At a minimum, its evidence that in 2012-13 the so called "Catholic 7" had significant interest in Creighton, Xavier and Butler and no interest in Dayton.

Not necessarily, and to the latter, entirely unlikely. It's evidence they had more interest in Creighton, Xavier, and Butler. But it's highly likely Dayton was on the backup plan list. They might not have been a top-3 choice, but it's unlikely anyone gets to 5 and doesn't have them on that list.
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Dickthedribbler

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2323 on: June 04, 2023, 09:26:19 PM »
According to UDPride, the question was whether Dayton was willing to lower themselves to associate with the Catholic 7.

Right you are. I remember that.

And even today when I have some time on my hands and am looking for a laugh, I go to the UD Pride archive threads from February and March 2013. There are 6-7 threads that in retrospect are a real hoot. Among the predictions: A10 will prove to be a stronger league than the BE; BE will lose MSG for conference tournament; any TV package the league will sign will be paltry: BE will fall apart shortly as vastly superior A10 picks off St.Johns, Villanova and Georgetown, and on and on.

One of my recurring objections to the BE affiliating with Dayton basketball is delusion and fan stupidity.

DFW HOYA

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2324 on: June 04, 2023, 11:04:58 PM »
Your post is internally inconsistent, do you realize that? Dayton is a city of 150k. Detroit is a city of 3.5 million.

Detroit is a city of 639,111 with a metro area of 3.5 million. Its peak was 1.85 million in 1950.

Detroit's sister city, of sorts, when it comes to population free fall is St. Louis: a city of 293,310 with a metro area of 2.9 million. Its peak was 856,796 in 1950.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 11:07:28 PM by DFW HOYA »

 

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