More conference realignment talk

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think the thought is that there is enough talent in Chicago that maybe with a conference promotion, UIC can start getting some of the high 2-stars and low 3-stars passed over by the high majors and become a decent program.

[The Sultan]

I think the thought is that there is enough talent in Chicago that maybe with a conference promotion, UIC can start getting some of the high 2-stars and low 3-stars passed over by the high majors and become a decent program.

Maybe they think that's why Loyola got good.  Not because of Moser, but because they were in the MVC.

I think that might be misguided.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Maybe they think that's why Loyola got good.  Not because of Moser, but because they were in the MVC.

I think that might be misguided.

Yak has been a washout, hey?

[Herman Cain]

Yeah, I don't understand mid-majors chasing markets instead of programs.  Murray State and Belmont are great basketball additions.  UIC?  Not so much.

I would have thought a Morehead State would have been a better choice.

The MVC going after UIC reminds me when the A10 added Fordham.

At least Fordham had Vince Lombardi

[The Equalizer]

I think the thought is that there is enough talent in Chicago that maybe with a conference promotion, UIC can start getting some of the high 2-stars and low 3-stars passed over by the high majors and become a decent program.

I think you're close, but I believe the reason is not so that UIC can get those players, but so that the other teams in the conference have an additional recruiting tool.

At this level, a road game played in the players home town might be one of the few chances for friends and family to see a recruit play.  We're not talking about Power 6 conference where every game is televised.

Add a team in Chicago, and every other coach in the conference can promise Chicago-area recruits an annual trip to the Windy City to play in front of their friends and relatives.

[Billy Hoyle]

Yeah, I don't understand mid-majors chasing markets instead of programs.  Murray State and Belmont are great basketball additions.  UIC?  Not so much.

I would have thought a Morehead State would have been a better choice.

The MVC going after UIC reminds me when the A10 added Fordham.

UIC at least has the possibility to be successful. Fordham had been in the non-scholarship Patriot League prior to the A-10.

[RealChiliWarrior]

Val Ackerman should initiate a A-10 swap DePaul for Loyola along with $$$ and an agreement to not pluck either of SLU and Dayton.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think you're close, but I believe the reason is not so that UIC can get those players, but so that the other teams in the conference have an additional recruiting tool.

At this level, a road game played in the players home town might be one of the few chances for friends and family to see a recruit play.  We're not talking about Power 6 conference where every game is televised.

Add a team in Chicago, and every other coach in the conference can promise Chicago-area recruits an annual trip to the Windy City to play in front of their friends and relatives.

That's a good point too. Adding a market like Chicago certainly doesn't help in the same way adding markets helps high majors, but there is still value in it for low and mid majors.

[Galway Eagle]

Just looked up UIC, wasn't their coach one of the premier assistants in the country? How'd he end up settling for that gig?

[The Sultan]

UIC at least has the possibility to be successful. Fordham had been in the non-scholarship Patriot League prior to the A-10.

That was 27 years ago.

[WhiteTrash]

UIC = Sleeping Giant. 

[Billy Hoyle]

That was 27 years ago.

and they've never moved out of that mindset.

Poor facilities, no commitment to winning, underfunded department, little academic leeway.

Just looked up UIC, wasn't their coach one of the premier assistants in the country? How'd he end up settling for that gig?

He's a Chicago area native. He left Michigan after Beilein left then Texas when there were questions about Shaka's future. Still a very curious decision to take that job.

[Galway Eagle]

and they've never moved out of that mindset.

Poor facilities, no commitment to winning, underfunded department, little academic leeway.

He's a Chicago area native. He left Michigan after Beilein left then Texas when there were questions about Shaka's future. Still a very curious decision to take that job.

Not sure anyone would call lasalle, IL Chicago area.

[JWags85]

Not sure anyone would call lasalle, IL Chicago area.

Classic City of Chicago native answer 

It's an hour from the suburbs, it's the nearest big city to where he's from, that plays.

As for why he took the job? He wasn't a high major assistant until his 30s. At a certain point and age, you need to try and get an HC gig.  He's not a young guy anymore. If it works, great, then he moves up.  If it doesn't, people know UIC is a crap job and wont hold it he'll get another top assistant gig and go from there

[Galway Eagle]

Classic City of Chicago native answer 

It's an hour from the suburbs, it's the nearest big city to where he's from, that plays.

Rockfords closer than Chicago 

But seriously come on I'm in Forest Park and it's 90mi from me (or at least starved rock is) which puts it just as far as Milwaukee. Unless we're going to start calling Milwaukee a suburb it's just north central Illinois.

But anyways that's a fairly good reason, still seems like he could've held out for better but it makes sense

[Dr. Blackheart]

Rockfords closer than Chicago 

But seriously come on I'm in Forest Park and it's 90mi from me (or at least starved rock is) which puts it just as far as Milwaukee. Unless we're going to start calling Milwaukee a suburb it's just north central Illinois.

But anyways that's a fairly good reason, still seems like he could've held out for better but it makes sense

So is Naperville and Aurora.

[Galway Eagle]

So is Naperville and Aurora.

Didn't want to say those because they're considered suburbs of Chicago as well and he said an hour away from the suburbs (which is a week argument for being part of any city's MSA, I mean Madison's an hour from Waukesha, is Madison part of Milwaukeeland?)

I know years ago I hijacked a few too many threads with similar arguments and said I'd stop, but claiming Lasalle as Chicagoland seems like a hill worth dying on.

[The Sultan]

You can say that "He is from the Chicago area even though LaSalle is not a suburb of Chicago."

Just like you can say that "Nate Oats is from the Milwaukee area even though Watertown is not a suburb of Milwaukee."

[Galway Eagle]

You can say that "He is from the Chicago area even though LaSalle is not a suburb of Chicago."

Just like you can say that "Nate Oats is from the Milwaukee area even though Watertown is not a suburb of Milwaukee."

Where does this expanded mythical "Chicago area" end in this new definition where apparently half the state of Illinois is Chicagoland? Is Milwaukee? Grand Rapids? University of Illinois? Rockford? Peoria? Bloomington? All Chicagoland?

Lasalle is closer to Davenport Iowa than Chicago. There's zero logic for calling it "part of the Chicagoland area"  it's part of the Ottawa micro-politan area because it's population isn't reliant on the Chicago MSA (tourism not withstanding)

What about appleton? 106mi, pretty much on par with lasalle to chicago. Would you as a northern Wisconsinite ever call yourself from milwaukee area?

[The Sultan]

Lasalle is closer to Davenport Iowa than Chicago. There's zero logic for calling it "part of the Chicagoland area"

No one claimed LaSalle was part of "Chicagoland."  No one claimed it was part of Chicago's MSA.  Those are words you are using.  Saying something is in the Chicago area is a broader, and more fuzzy term.

What about appleton? 106mi, pretty much on par with lasalle to chicago. Would you as a northern Wisconsinite ever call yourself from milwaukee area?

I have run into plenty of people in my lifetime who have said things like "Milwaukee is just north of Chicago" or "the Packers being Milwaukee's team just makes sense.  They aren't far away."

These are people not from the area who don't view things as specifically as people who know the area more intimately.

We've had similar conversations on Scoop about Dayton and Xavier being in the same area, even though they are technically different MSAs and media markets. 

[The Equalizer]

Where does this expanded mythical "Chicago area" end in this new definition where apparently half the state of Illinois is Chicagoland? Is Milwaukee? Grand Rapids? University of Illinois? Rockford? Peoria? Bloomington? All Chicagoland?

Lasalle is closer to Davenport Iowa than Chicago. There's zero logic for calling it "part of the Chicagoland area"  it's part of the Ottawa micro-politan area because it's population isn't reliant on the Chicago MSA (tourism not withstanding)

What about appleton? 106mi, pretty much on par with lasalle to chicago. Would you as a northern Wisconsinite ever call yourself from milwaukee area?

It all depends on perspective. 

If you're sitting in Los Angeles or New York, LaSalle is near Chicago to you.  If you're in Aurora you might have a different perspective.

If we want to settle this, Mark Anglavar is from LaSalle--someone should ask him whether he feels any native ties to the "chicago" area.

[Galway Eagle]

No one claimed LaSalle was part of "Chicagoland."  No one claimed it was part of Chicago's MSA.  Those are words you are using.  Saying something is in the Chicago area is a broader, and more fuzzy term.


I have run into plenty of people in my lifetime who have said things like "Milwaukee is just north of Chicago" or "the Packers being Milwaukee's team just makes sense.  They aren't far away."

These are people not from the area who don't view things as specifically as people who know the area more intimately.

We've had similar conversations on Scoop about Dayton and Xavier being in the same area, even though they are technically different MSAs and media markets.

You're splitting hairs that can't be defined by trying to say there's a difference between "Chicago area" and "Chicagoland" I used MSA as it's an actual definable metric used to determine a (insert city) area. It's the only way to prove a point logically, otherwise I can use more hyperbole, "glad Marquette's in the Chicago area" wouldn't be able to drive to a weekday game otherwise!

The packers being Milwaukee's team is a different conversation. That's sports allegiance, if you look at a map of fandom most the Midwest roots for the Cubs. What I asked you is would you accept it as logical for someone to call you from Milwaukee area?

Dayton's different, the distance is considerably smaller, 56mi city center to city center. With the vast majority of that being shared suburbs and some even being within city limits.

[The Lens]

No one claimed LaSalle was part of "Chicagoland."  No one claimed it was part of Chicago's MSA.  Those are words you are using.  Saying something is in the Chicago area is a broader, and more fuzzy term.


I have run into plenty of people in my lifetime who have said things like "Milwaukee is just north of Chicago" or "the Packers being Milwaukee's team just makes sense.  They aren't far away."

These are people not from the area who don't view things as specifically as people who know the area more intimately.

We've had similar conversations on Scoop about Dayton and Xavier being in the same area, even though they are technically different MSAs and media markets.

Freshman year at MU (1993) the kid on our floor who was from the Bronx tried to rally the rest of us to go see Lambeau.  We explained it was 2 hours away.  And there was no public transportation to it.  He was floored by both.  He assumed it was a suburb.

[The Equalizer]

You're splitting hairs that can't be defined by trying to say there's a difference between "Chicago area" and "Chicagoland" I used MSA as it's an actual definable metric used to determine a (insert city) area. It's the only way to prove a point logically, otherwise I can use more hyperbole, "glad Marquette's in the Chicagoland area" wouldn't be able to drive to a weekday game otherwise!

The packers being Milwaukee's team is a different conversation. That's sports allegiance, if you look at a map of fandom most the Midwest roots for the Cubs. What I asked you is would you accept it as logical for someone to call you from Milwaukee area?

Dayton's different, the distance is considerably smaller, 56mi to city center. With the vast majority of that being shared suburbs.

This isn't even true for Illinois.  Plenty of White Sox and Cardinal fans.

[tower912]

NOOOOOOO!  He said Cardinal fan!   &$!:+@!*;"&@_