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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 494068 times)

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2975 on: September 05, 2023, 10:38:15 AM »
Just curious, what ever happened to George Kliavkoff?

MUbiz

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2976 on: September 05, 2023, 10:42:23 AM »
Just curious, what ever happened to George Kliavkoff?

He has been quiet lately while still collecting his $3.5M annual salary. LOL.

oldwarrior81

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2977 on: September 05, 2023, 12:33:55 PM »
In hoops back in the early 60's (until 1963), there were only 5 teams in what would evolve from the AAWU to become the Pac-8.
Those teams played a 14 game conference basketball schedule.  3 games against two teams, 4 games against two others.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2978 on: September 05, 2023, 12:41:48 PM »
He has been quiet lately while still collecting his $3.5M annual salary. LOL.
Maybe he is the smartest commissioner in college?  8-)

Herman Cain

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2979 on: September 09, 2023, 08:32:08 PM »
Washington State and Oregon State sue to protect their right to control Pac-12 future

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38353933/oregon-state-washington-state-file-complaint-pac-12?platform=amp
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forgetful

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2980 on: September 09, 2023, 08:50:26 PM »
I've wondered if the PAC12 could still vote to dissolve. My reading of the bylaws says no, but I'm no lawyer.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2981 on: September 10, 2023, 10:54:36 AM »
Washington State and Oregon State sue to protect their right to control Pac-12 future

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38353933/oregon-state-washington-state-file-complaint-pac-12?platform=amp
Not a good look for the 10 schools. OSU and WSU deserve that money and then some. When I say 'deserve' I mean they have legal rights to the funds and it looks like they are the only board members. IMO.

El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2982 on: September 10, 2023, 08:42:48 PM »
Talk about pissing on their former brethren’s graves… I guess I shouldn’t be surprised to see schools stoop that low but I still am.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2983 on: September 11, 2023, 03:56:24 AM »
It’s to be expected. Way too much on the table here and everyone needs to protect their interests.
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MU82

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2984 on: September 11, 2023, 08:03:08 AM »
Two things in the conference-switcheroo realm that caught my eye this morning:

++ Eight Pac-12 teams, including the two left behind by the Power-4, are ranked in this week's AP football poll.

++ The Athletic's Dana O'Neil says the NCAA basketball tournament needs to expand to at least 96 teams, giving big conferences still more entrants, to help keep the Power-4 football conferences from breaking off and forming their own hoops tourney. https://theathletic.com/4849778/2023/09/11/ncaa-tournament-expansion-realignment/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=7685257

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Shooter McGavin

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2985 on: September 11, 2023, 08:46:00 AM »
If they split away, Universities like MU will lose alumni engagement opportunities and money on multiple levels (tickets, tv contracts, donations, etc.).

Would there be a winnable lawsuit against the four conferences because of a monopoly?  Just curious.  It seems like that would cause irreparable financial harm to a significant number of non football schools.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2986 on: September 11, 2023, 08:51:06 AM »
Two things in the conference-switcheroo realm that caught my eye this morning:

++ Eight Pac-12 teams, including the two left behind by the Power-4, are ranked in this week's AP football poll.

++ The Athletic's Dana O'Neil says the NCAA basketball tournament needs to expand to at least 96 teams, giving big conferences still more entrants, to help keep the Power-4 football conferences from breaking off and forming their own hoops tourney. https://theathletic.com/4849778/2023/09/11/ncaa-tournament-expansion-realignment/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=7685257
+++ When listening to ESPN radio last week, they spent time talking about football and basketball teams splitting from the schools and operating under a licensing agreement for the name. (I can't remember the exact show and hosts) The logic is that these professional athletes should not be subject to thinly veiled academic requirements.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2987 on: September 11, 2023, 08:54:03 AM »
If they split away, Universities like MU will lose alumni engagement opportunities and money on multiple levels (tickets, tv contracts, donations, etc.).

Would there be a winnable lawsuit against the four conferences because of a monopoly?  Just curious.  It seems like that would cause irreparable financial harm to a significant number of non football schools.


I don't think it's a monopoly. The schools that remain in the NCAA would be more than able to get their own media deal, but it would be less lucrative.

Ironically the financial harm caused to Marquette would mean that its product isn't as valuable as the P4 product.
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Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2988 on: September 11, 2023, 09:11:57 AM »
Two things in the conference-switcheroo realm that caught my eye this morning:

++ The Athletic's Dana O'Neil says the NCAA basketball tournament needs to expand to at least 96 teams, giving big conferences still more entrants, to help keep the Power-4 football conferences from breaking off and forming their own hoops tourney. https://theathletic.com/4849778/2023/09/11/ncaa-tournament-expansion-realignment/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=7685257

Ugh. I actually hate this. More mediocre teams.

But, if you HAD to do this....also give auto bids to teams that win their conference regular season but not the tournament. Would at least give the regular season more meaning.

With 30 more slots, You will still have more at large bids....should keep everyone happy.


The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2989 on: September 11, 2023, 09:16:51 AM »
Eh. The conferences determine their champion. If you want to "give the regular season more meaning," blame the conferences for taking away that meaning.

The tournament has needed to expand for years. Just do it.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2990 on: September 11, 2023, 09:20:49 AM »
Eh. The conferences determine their champion. If you want to "give the regular season more meaning," blame the conferences for taking away that meaning.

The tournament has needed to expand for years. Just do it.

I know. But as a fan, I'd rather see a mid major that had a great season and otherwise would miss the tournament than a 17-14 team from a major conference

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2991 on: September 11, 2023, 10:47:19 AM »
I still say expand to 80, not 96. The general guideline is 25% of participants and 96 would be more than that. Going to 80 would allow the addition of 12 at-large teams. The bulk would come from high-majors, insuring they get their money.

The key is expanding from the First Four games to the First Four sites with four games at each site. On Tuesday and Wednesday, each of the sites (I'd say Dayton, Omaha, Bloomington, and either Knoxville or Winston-Salem) play one at-large play-in and one auto-bid play-in. Then you need to structure 11-16 every year as follows:

11-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 41-48 on Tuesday/Wednesday
12-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 49-56 on Tuesday/Wednesday
13-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 57-60
14-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 61-64
15-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 65-72
16-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 73-80

This would likely give more at-large bids to high-majors as well as more opportunity for earning tourney credits on Tuesday/Wednesday, so high-majors win. It would also mean more tourney credits earned by low-majors on Tuesday/Wednesday (currently only 2 of the bottom 4 leagues can earn a Tuesday/Wednesday credit, this would insure 4 of the bottom 8), so the low-majors win. Finally, by weeding out 8 mid and low majors that only qualified because of winning their conference tournament, it would insure a higher quality field on Thursday/Friday so the fans also win. It would give a greater potential for upsets early because the quality of teams on the 13-16 lines would be improved across the board, but would also increase the likelihood of second and third weekends with more established brands because seeds 11-12 would have more big brands which is what fans profess to want after the first weekend chaos.

Everyone involved wins, from the players to the teams to the leagues to the fans.
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Warriors4ever

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2992 on: September 11, 2023, 10:50:21 AM »
Yet another reason for me to hate college football and what it’s doing to the athletic landscape.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2993 on: September 11, 2023, 12:11:34 PM »
Yet another reason for me to hate college football and what it’s doing to the athletic landscape.
As someone who enjoys college football, I have to agree with you.

Coleman

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2994 on: September 11, 2023, 12:57:29 PM »
I still say expand to 80, not 96. The general guideline is 25% of participants and 96 would be more than that. Going to 80 would allow the addition of 12 at-large teams. The bulk would come from high-majors, insuring they get their money.

The key is expanding from the First Four games to the First Four sites with four games at each site. On Tuesday and Wednesday, each of the sites (I'd say Dayton, Omaha, Bloomington, and either Knoxville or Winston-Salem) play one at-large play-in and one auto-bid play-in. Then you need to structure 11-16 every year as follows:

11-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 41-48 on Tuesday/Wednesday
12-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 49-56 on Tuesday/Wednesday
13-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 57-60
14-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 61-64
15-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 65-72
16-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 73-80

This would likely give more at-large bids to high-majors as well as more opportunity for earning tourney credits on Tuesday/Wednesday, so high-majors win. It would also mean more tourney credits earned by low-majors on Tuesday/Wednesday (currently only 2 of the bottom 4 leagues can earn a Tuesday/Wednesday credit, this would insure 4 of the bottom 8), so the low-majors win. Finally, by weeding out 8 mid and low majors that only qualified because of winning their conference tournament, it would insure a higher quality field on Thursday/Friday so the fans also win. It would give a greater potential for upsets early because the quality of teams on the 13-16 lines would be improved across the board, but would also increase the likelihood of second and third weekends with more established brands because seeds 11-12 would have more big brands which is what fans profess to want after the first weekend chaos.

Everyone involved wins, from the players to the teams to the leagues to the fans.

Yuck. First round byes make more sense than a bunch of play in games for crappy seeds.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 01:06:10 PM by Coleman »

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2995 on: September 11, 2023, 01:22:34 PM »
I still say expand to 80, not 96. The general guideline is 25% of participants and 96 would be more than that. Going to 80 would allow the addition of 12 at-large teams. The bulk would come from high-majors, insuring they get their money.

The key is expanding from the First Four games to the First Four sites with four games at each site. On Tuesday and Wednesday, each of the sites (I'd say Dayton, Omaha, Bloomington, and either Knoxville or Winston-Salem) play one at-large play-in and one auto-bid play-in. Then you need to structure 11-16 every year as follows:

11-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 41-48 on Tuesday/Wednesday
12-seeds: at-large play-ins for true seeds 49-56 on Tuesday/Wednesday
13-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 57-60
14-seeds: auto-bids for true seeds 61-64
15-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 65-72
16-seeds: auto-bid play-ins for true seeds 73-80

This would likely give more at-large bids to high-majors as well as more opportunity for earning tourney credits on Tuesday/Wednesday, so high-majors win. It would also mean more tourney credits earned by low-majors on Tuesday/Wednesday (currently only 2 of the bottom 4 leagues can earn a Tuesday/Wednesday credit, this would insure 4 of the bottom 8), so the low-majors win. Finally, by weeding out 8 mid and low majors that only qualified because of winning their conference tournament, it would insure a higher quality field on Thursday/Friday so the fans also win. It would give a greater potential for upsets early because the quality of teams on the 13-16 lines would be improved across the board, but would also increase the likelihood of second and third weekends with more established brands because seeds 11-12 would have more big brands which is what fans profess to want after the first weekend chaos.

Everyone involved wins, from the players to the teams to the leagues to the fans.
Damn, I was told there would be no math.  ;D

brewcity77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2996 on: September 11, 2023, 01:24:42 PM »
Yuck. First round byes make more sense than a bunch of play in games for crappy seeds.

That's already built in. 48 teams get a bye to Thursday/Friday. If you don't want to watch Tuesday/Wednesday, you don't have to, and you still get a better product when the field is narrowed to 64.
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dgies9156

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2997 on: September 11, 2023, 03:15:30 PM »
The issue behind expanding the NCAA is engagement. The more teams, the more alumni, the more demand for tickets and the greater the demand for television.

The NCAA hasn't had the best 64 teams in the country in its tournament for years. Even in a bad year, Syracuse could beat Coastal Carolina 10 times out of 10. The NCAA loves to romanticize the Maryland-Baltimore Counties taking down Virginia, but that's happened like once in the history of seeding.

We'll get 96 and maybe even more in the NCAA tournament because, well, it is profitable to add more teams.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2998 on: September 11, 2023, 03:26:45 PM »
The issue behind expanding the NCAA is engagement. The more teams, the more alumni, the more demand for tickets and the greater the demand for television.

The NCAA hasn't had the best 64 teams in the country in its tournament for years. Even in a bad year, Syracuse could beat Coastal Carolina 10 times out of 10. The NCAA loves to romanticize the Maryland-Baltimore Counties taking down Virginia, but that's happened like once in the history of seeding.

We'll get 96 and maybe even more in the NCAA tournament because, well, it is profitable to add more teams.

Purdue went down just last year but I agree with your overall message.

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2999 on: September 11, 2023, 03:57:01 PM »
The issue behind expanding the NCAA is engagement. The more teams, the more alumni, the more demand for tickets and the greater the demand for television.

The NCAA hasn't had the best 64 teams in the country in its tournament for years. Even in a bad year, Syracuse could beat Coastal Carolina 10 times out of 10. The NCAA loves to romanticize the Maryland-Baltimore Counties taking down Virginia, but that's happened like once in the history of seeding.

We'll get 96 and maybe even more in the NCAA tournament because, well, it is profitable to add more teams.
I love the Costal Carolina's of the world. It makes for great stories when it happens. It also reminds us that college hoops is more than the P5 (sorry P12). Gonzaga used to be UMBC but the great system has rewarded them and their fans.

Perhaps I'm too old school but I like the tourney to be the NCAA champ not just the best team in the P5 (although that is the reality either way).