More conference realignment talk

[WhiteTrash]

Illinois football?  Have people 35 and younger ever heard of Illinois football?

Just in case they haven't.  Dick Butkus and Red Grange went to Illinois.

Our friends in Madison definitely know about Illinois football. 

[Herman Cain]

Just remember that Fox and the Catholic 7 got together when both parties REALLY needed one another. Fox was launching FS1 and FS2, and the C7 were putting together a conference that needed a media outlet.

Fox doesn't need the Big East like it did then. Given the P12's experience, I am actually feeling pretty nervous about the next contract.

I'm in the same boat as you. Unless half the schedule gets sold to CBSSN I don't see where they're gonna have room for BE content once the B1G expansion happens.

There are 7 days in a week that can be filled with content. Also a lot of Big Content will end up on Big Ten network.  The Big East will be fine, although It is possible there may not be materially increased economics

[Dickthedribbler]

Just remember that Fox and the Catholic 7 got together when both parties REALLY needed one another. Fox was launching FS1 and FS2, and the C7 were putting together a conference that needed a media outlet.

Fox doesn't need the Big East like it did then. Given the P12's experience, I am actually feeling pretty nervous about the next contract.

Isn't there a difference though in televising Pac12 football as opposed to BE basketball. College football is a one day a week proposition (Saturday) with a rare Thursday or Friday evening sprinkled in. Whereas college basketball plays 7 days a week and if necessary one network could cover 3 games every weeknight. I'm guessing with the B10 and B12 playing a lot of games in the Pacific and Mountain time zones starting next year, that third TV window on weeknights is going to offer a lot of late games.

[Coleman]

Why? 

Mark Few turns 61 this year.  He's done wonders there, in spite of many disadvantages compared to other programs, but how likely is Gonzaga to remain a strong asset after he retires?   Odds are they join the brotherhood of DePaul, Holy Cross, San Francisco, Temple, Wake Forest, (Marquette for a quarter century,) and other small, private schools that fell off significantly, but without the advantages of geography or market.

Gonzaga was actually good before Few. Obviously he took them to a completely different level. They have had sustained success for almost 30 years.

And as Sultan said, 61 is not that old. He will probably coach at least 10 more years, 15 is likely. You take them in a heartbeat before the next media deal in 2025.

[Coleman]

The biggest question isn't whether Gonzaga is a fit for the Big East, but rather where are the TV slots the Big East is going to get with its new TV deal.

The Big Ten is now essentially owned by Fox.  With 18 teams and EST, CST and PST access, it will dominate FS1, the B1GN and probably FS2.  In addition to the Big Ten, Fox also has 50% of the Big 12 content, which now has 16 teams.  Even if we could get our $$ bump, what channel and slots do that leave the BE?

ESPN has the SEC, ACC, 50% Big 12 and the American.  There won't be much access there either.

It won't matter if we get $10 million per year (and that's a stretch) if we don't get on TV.  The elimination of a conference has only tightened network windows because of consolidation.  The PAC faced a strictly streaming deal.  I hope we are more fortunate.

We will be on TV. Between the two conferences, there's plenty of spots between FOX, B1GN, FS1 and FS2. Each team only plays 2 games per week. Between those 4 networks and 4 time zones, you have 200+ hours of programming each week (4 networks x 6 hours on 5 weeknights and 12 hours on 2 weekend days).

Not to mention Fox has the ability to sell some games down to CBSSports Network, which they regularly do. Might MU have more games on FS2 or CBSSN instead of FS1? Perhaps. But I don't really care, I get all of those channels. The games will be aired one way or another.

[WhiteTrash]

Isn't there a difference though in televising Pac12 football as opposed to BE basketball. College football is a one day a week proposition (Saturday) with a rare Thursday or Friday evening sprinkled in. Whereas college basketball plays 7 days a week and if necessary one network could cover 3 games every weeknight. I'm guessing with the B10 and B12 playing a lot of games in the Pacific and Mountain time zones starting next year, that third TV window on weeknights is going to offer a lot of late games.

Good points. Time slots are not nearly as important for basketball as compared to football. Football time slots are way more important not only for viewers but also the entire game day event on campus. These schools get 6 or 7 Saturdays a year to host games and everything that goes into it. 10am Saturday is not nearly as valuable as an afternoon kickoff. Not sure about Big10 games but in the south, it is common to have festivals and tailgating with big screen TVs, bartenders and waiters. These move the local economies significantly.

[GoFastAndWin]

Our friends in Madison definitely know about Illinois football. 

Heard for decades in the stodgy chasms of Memorial Stadium:

"We need another Bob Zuppke"

[The Sultan]

I'm in the same boat as you. Unless half the schedule gets sold to CBSSN I don't see where they're gonna have room for BE content once the B1G expansion happens.

Isn't there a difference though in televising Pac12 football as opposed to BE basketball. College football is a one day a week proposition (Saturday) with a rare Thursday or Friday evening sprinkled in. Whereas college basketball plays 7 days a week and if necessary one network could cover 3 games every weeknight. I'm guessing with the B10 and B12 playing a lot of games in the Pacific and Mountain time zones starting next year, that third TV window on weeknights is going to offer a lot of late games.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

There will be plenty of *room* for BE basketball content. The Big Ten is putting games on the Big Ten Network and on Peacock.  So there will be "slots" available for BE games, especially if streaming is part of the equation.

The point I am making is if Fox will be willing to *pay* significantly for that content.  The last go around they were because they needed the content. They don't need it as much now.

[Coleman]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

There will be plenty of *room* for BE basketball content. The Big Ten is putting games on the Big Ten Network and on Peacock.  So there will be "slots" available for BE games, especially if streaming is part of the equation.

The point I am making is if Fox will be willing to *pay* significantly for that content.  The last go around they were because they needed the content. They don't need it as much now.

It is a valid point. I still think we get a bigger deal. While Fox may not be as desperate for content, the value of the Big East has gone up tremendously. Since the last deal was signed, we have added UConn and the conference has won 3 National Championships. The conference in 2023-2024 will be be deeper than it has ever been since the 2013 reformulation.

[Dickthedribbler]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

There will be plenty of *room* for BE basketball content. The Big Ten is putting games on the Big Ten Network and on Peacock.  So there will be "slots" available for BE games, especially if streaming is part of the equation.

The point I am making is if Fox will be willing to *pay* significantly for that content.  The last go around they were because they needed the content. They don't need it as much now.

No, I get your  point, and I agree 100%.

But I would hope that as a counterweight to that when FOX gets out its checkbook in this round of contract negotiations it realizes that at least a couple of things have changed since 2013:

1. UCONN is back in the fold.
2. The BE has won 3 National
    Championships.

Throw in the fact that the BE now delivers a loud, sold out MSG for its conference tournament. Back in 2013 FOX kind of bought " a pig in a poke" as my Irish grandparents used to say. But they certainly know what they're getting this time around for the BE media rights, and they should pay.

[Dickthedribbler]

Sorry Coleman. Great minds........

[Herman Cain]

SMU in the mix now for ACC

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/acc-expansion-smu-emerges-as-potential-target-along-with-stanford-cal-from-pac-12-per-report/amp/

[GoldenWarrior11]

No, I get your  point, and I agree 100%.

But I would hope that as a counterweight to that when FOX gets out its checkbook in this round of contract negotiations it realizes that at least a couple of things have changed since 2013:

1. UCONN is back in the fold.
2. The BE has won 3 National
    Championships.

Throw in the fact that the BE now delivers a loud, sold out MSG for its conference tournament. Back in 2013 FOX kind of bought " a pig in a poke" as my Irish grandparents used to say. But they certainly know what they're getting this time around for the BE media rights, and they should pay.

Might want to check the BET Championship ratings on Fox, not FS1, over the past few years.  If the BE is presenting that as cause for pay increase, we might get laughed out of the room.

[Herman Cain]

Might want to check the BET Championship ratings on Fox, not FS1, over the past few years.  If the BE is presenting that as cause for pay increase, we might get laughed out of the room.

Big East has 10 years of rating history . What ever the eventual number for the contract renewal is, will not be a surprise to The Conference .

[Herman Cain]

https://www.on3.com/os/news/tv-sources-on-acc-potentially-adding-cal-bears-stanford-cardinal-doesnt-make-sense/

[Skatastrophy]

Big East had 10 years of rating history . What ever the eventual number for the contract renewal is, will not be a surprise to The Conference .

Agreed, same with any conference expansion likely being done with consultation of the networks.

The networks are driving sports.

On another note: Amazon has done a good job with Overtime Elite. I think we should listen to their pitch for Big East basketball

[Magnum]

It is a valid point. I still think we get a bigger deal. While Fox may not be as desperate for content, the value of the Big East has gone up tremendously. Since the last deal was signed, we have added UConn and the conference has won 3 National Championships. The conference in 2023-2024 will be be deeper than it has ever been since the 2013 reformulation.

It is also worth noting that not only is UCONN in the fold, but Georgetown and St. John's have taken major steps to upgrade their basketball programs.  Having traditional and powerful brands in big media markets matters, many forget that St. John's and G'town not only put the Big East on center stage, they also played a major role in building ESPN and popularizing televised college basketball.

[StillAWarrior]

It is also worth noting that not only is UCONN in the fold, but Georgetown and St. John's have taken major steps to upgrade their basketball programs.  Having traditional and powerful brands in big media markets matters, many forget that St. John's and G'town not only put the Big East on center stage, they also played a major role in building ESPN and popularizing televised college basketball.

Agreed. While I'll take a wait-and-see approach to whether the major steps lead to success on the court, it's undeniable that the BEast is much more attractive if Georgetown and St. John's are competitive.

[DFW HOYA]

It is also worth noting that not only is UCONN in the fold, but Georgetown and St. John's have taken major steps to upgrade their basketball programs. 

It's an upgrade in coaching, but there's no more new money into the program. Georgetown is still in a ditch in that their three largest athletic teams by budget and support are at or near historic lows.

[StillAWarrior]

It's an upgrade in coaching, but there's no more new money into the program. Georgetown is still in a ditch in that their three largest athletic teams by budget and support are at or near historic lows.

The lack of funds in the Georgetown athletics department was a real surprise during our years dealing with them. I had always considered them an established national brand and their "frugality" was unexpected.

[GOO]

Agreed, same with any conference expansion likely being done with consultation of the networks.

The networks are driving sports.

On another note: Amazon has done a good job with Overtime Elite. I think we should listen to their pitch for Big East basketball

.

Re: Amazon. Agree.

Apple also. Apple's Friday night baseball and MLS are well done. Apple will lead sports into the 3D virtual space the next two years. Sports watching will be changing.  We are watching in what will be the "old days" soon.

Streaming services don't scare me especially if some content is sold to networks and some games offered without a subscription. They will lead in tech and be in front of the networks with the viewing changes finally coming.

[Magnum]

It's an upgrade in coaching, but there's no more new money into the program. Georgetown is still in a ditch in that their three largest athletic teams by budget and support are at or near historic lows.

Buying out Ewing wasn't cheap, the same may be true for Anderson at Saint John's, so there is that.  While the Universities might not be increasing their financial commitment as much as many would like the name of the game is NIL and Pitino brought mega booster Mike Repole back into the fold and its my understanding that hiring Cooley will bring some of the Hoyas heavy hitters back.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://twitter.com/jasonscheer/status/1689454569749893120?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

As expected, ACC is not expected to invite Cal and Stanford.

The networks want the ACC dead, no way they offer additional funds for ACC to invite new schools. Which means that any new additions means every current member taking a paycut. Maybe you can sell that to Cuse, BC, and Pitt who are desperately trying to keep the ACC together at all costs....but too many of the schools are looking for the exit. ACC is doomed.

[WhiteTrash]

https://twitter.com/jasonscheer/status/1689454569749893120?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

As expected, ACC is not expected to invite Cal and Stanford.

The networks want the ACC dead, no way they offer additional funds for ACC to invite new schools. Which means that any new additions means every current member taking a paycut. Maybe you can sell that to Cuse, BC, and Pitt who are desperately trying to keep the ACC together at all costs....but too many of the schools are looking for the exit. ACC is doomed.

I'd clarify this and say 'the ACC as we know it is doomed'. Just by sheer number of schools I think the brand survives without FSU, Miami, UNC, Clemson, Virginia, etc. Maybe add UCONN or SMU and then a slightly better than AAC level TV deal. Then we have the Power 3, for however long that lasts.

[Herman Cain]

The ACC is not doomed. Far from it. Has a 13 year contract that serves the needs of the majority of the Conference very well.

The schools that strive for greater football glory have a clean way out. They pay their 120 million exit fee and negotiate an additional  amount to exit the Grant of Rights, as UNCs Bubba Cunningham pointed out . Florida State has expressed an interest in this and may do so. Others such as Clemson or Miami would need to come up with the coin as well. 

No other schools have football media value