More conference realignment talk

[Coleman]

Yes.

Meanwhile, this from The Athletic showing that membership in the Big 18+ isn't necessarily a guarantee:

Rutgers' time in the Big Ten has been a competitive and financial nightmare, compounded by a few salacious scandals. Entering its 10th season in the conference, the football team has gone 13-66 in league play. Meanwhile, despite astronomical increases in shared Big Ten revenue, the athletic department has racked up more than $250 million in debt, according to financial documents obtained by The Athletic and first reported by NorthJersey.com.

Adding Rutgers and Maryland was horrific for the league - especially Rutgers, which isn't even competitive in most non-football sports.

How have they racked up that much debt? They are getting way more revenue than when they were in the Big East....

I understand how competitively speaking moving to these conferences is a bit of a gamble, but financially it was supposed to be a sure thing

[Herman Cain]

Some discussion in this article about p-12 Autonomy Conference Value and NCAA units  vis a vis merger with Mountain West

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2023-08-05/san-diego-state-sdsu-mountain-west-pac-12-conference-realignment-merger-oregon-state-washington-cal-stanford

[forgetful]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1688627770987794433?s=20

I doubt this happens. Adding two more teams would either require them to dilute their media deal revenue share per team, or renegotiate a deal with the two additional teams included.

As I understand it the GOR last for the durations of the media deal, and that a renegotiated deal would end the GOR...which would allow anyone out with no GOR issues.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When does the Big East add Gonzaga?

I don't think it happens. I think the Big East is more interested in picking off the eventual corpse of the ACC.

[The Sultan]

I don't think it happens. I think the Big East is more interested in picking off the eventual corpse of the ACC.

Why not both?

[source?]

Some discussion in this article about p-12 Autonomy Conference Value and NCAA units  vis a vis merger with Mountain West

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2023-08-05/san-diego-state-sdsu-mountain-west-pac-12-conference-realignment-merger-oregon-state-washington-cal-stanford

Reading that article, would the merged Pac 12/MWC really have the basketball clout to entice Gonzaga? Stanford hasn't been in the NCAA tournament since 2014, Cal's last appearance was in 2016, Washington State has all of 6 appearances all-time (last in 2008), and Oregon State made an Elite 8 appearance in 2021 and made the tournament in 2016 but before that you have to go back to 1990.

On the MWC side you obviously have UNLV which is historically strong but with little recent success, San Diego State and Nevada have been good recently but don't have a lot of historical success. Boise State, Wyoming, Utah State, New Mexico, and Colorado State have all had some success but aren't exactly basketball powers. Then you have the San Jose State/Fresno State/Air Force teams that are all pretty bad historically. If you're Gonzaga is it really worth it to jump for that?

[WhiteTrash]

I doubt this happens. Adding two more teams would either require them to dilute their media deal revenue share per team, or renegotiate a deal with the two additional teams included.

As I understand it the GOR last for the durations of the media deal, and that a renegotiated deal would end the GOR...which would allow anyone out with no GOR issues.

Agreed. Cal and Stanford to the ACC is not happening.

[Herman Cain]

Big 12 no interest in expanding

https://www.si.com/college/stanford/football/big-12-no-longer-interested-in-stanford-or-remaining-pac-12-programs

https://twitter.com/brett_mcmurphy/status/1688657142486646784?s=46&t=zTvyfbqkQ-pXTYJDzcnf0g

[cven7]

Should have been yesterday

Why? 

Mark Few turns 61 this year.  He's done wonders there, in spite of many disadvantages compared to other programs, but how likely is Gonzaga to remain a strong asset after he retires?   Odds are they join the brotherhood of DePaul, Holy Cross, San Francisco, Temple, Wake Forest, (Marquette for a quarter century,) and other small, private schools that fell off significantly, but without the advantages of geography or market.

[The Sultan]

Why? 

Mark Few turns 61 this year.  He's done wonders there, in spite of many disadvantages compared to other programs, but how likely is Gonzaga to remain a strong asset after he retires?   Odds are they join the brotherhood of DePaul, Holy Cross, San Francisco, Temple, Wake Forest, (Marquette for a quarter century,) and other small, private schools that fell off significantly, but without the advantages of geography or market.

61? He could coach another decade.

You take them if it helps your next media deal. Sort out the future when it gets here.

[cven7]

61? He could coach another decade.

You take them if it helps your next media deal. Sort out the future when it gets here.

Or Few could win a championship in the next 3 years and retire to go fish on Priest Lake, leaving the BE with a weak, small market, geographical outlier diluting their shares and raising operating expenses.  If adding Gonzaga made sense for both parties, they would have done so already, and every year older that Few gets makes Gonzaga less appealing long term.

[MU82]

What if the next coach is as good as or better than Few, just as Few turned out to be better than former next great Power 5 coach Dan Monson?

If you want Gonzaga, you get Gonzaga if you can. Any coach could leave any school, or retire, or get hit by a bus.

[StillAWarrior]

If you want Gonzaga, you get Gonzaga if you can.

True, but if you don't, you don't.

I don't.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The biggest question isn't whether Gonzaga is a fit for the Big East, but rather where are the TV slots the Big East is going to get with its new TV deal.

The Big Ten is now essentially owned by Fox.  With 18 teams and EST, CST and PST access, it will dominate FS1, the B1GN and probably FS2.  In addition to the Big Ten, Fox also has 50% of the Big 12 content, which now has 16 teams.  Even if we could get our $$ bump, what channel and slots do that leave the BE?

ESPN has the SEC, ACC, 50% Big 12 and the American.  There won't be much access there either.

It won't matter if we get $10 million per year (and that's a stretch) if we don't get on TV.  The elimination of a conference has only tightened network windows because of consolidation.  The PAC faced a strictly streaming deal.  I hope we are more fortunate.

[MU82]

True, but if you don't, you don't.

I don't.

Well, that's an entirely different story!

[The Sultan]

The biggest question isn't whether Gonzaga is a fit for the Big East, but rather where are the TV slots the Big East is going to get with its new TV deal.

The Big Ten is now essentially owned by Fox.  With 18 teams and EST, CST and PST access, it will dominate FS1, the B1GN and probably FS2.  In addition to the Big Ten, Fox also has 50% of the Big 12 content, which now has 16 teams.  Even if we could get our $$ bump, what channel and slots do that leave the BE?

ESPN has the SEC, ACC, 50% Big 12 and the American.  There won't be much access there either.

It won't matter if we get $10 million per year (and that's a stretch) if we don't get on TV.  The elimination of a conference has only tightened network windows because of consolidation.  The PAC faced a strictly streaming deal.  I hope we are more fortunate.

A lot of B10 basketball will also be on Peacock so I think there will be room if Fox wants to make room.

I also thin the next BE package will include a significant streaming package.

[Herman Cain]

The biggest question isn't whether Gonzaga is a fit for the Big East, but rather where are the TV slots the Big East is going to get with its new TV deal.

The Big Ten is now essentially owned by Fox.  With 18 teams and EST, CST and PST access, it will dominate FS1, the B1GN and probably FS2.  In addition to the Big Ten, Fox also has 50% of the Big 12 content, which now has 16 teams.  Even if we could get our $$ bump, what channel and slots do that leave the BE?

ESPN has the SEC, ACC, 50% Big 12 and the American.  There won't be much access there either.

It won't matter if we get $10 million per year (and that's a stretch) if we don't get on TV.  The elimination of a conference has only tightened network windows because of consolidation.  The PAC faced a strictly streaming deal.  I hope we are more fortunate.

Big East has been a steady fixture for Fox and Fox Sports. I would hope that remains the case going forward given that the league is now a proven product .

[El Guerrero 2]

I'd be fine with a streaming-only deal with someone like YouTube TV or AppleTV, as Lon as they had a lot of assurances about production and announcing. Most people under 50 are streaming their TV anyway and I think the added "publicity" of being on ESPN or big Fox is overblown in an age where no one is flipping channels anymore. As long as the production quality and announcers are there, I'm comfortable with the Big East thinking about the future rather than the past.

[mug644]

I'd be fine with a streaming-only deal with someone like YouTube TV or AppleTV, as Lon as they had a lot of assurances about production and announcing. Most people under 50 are streaming their TV anyway and I think the added "publicity" of being on ESPN or big Fox is overblown in an age where no one is flipping channels anymore. As long as the production quality and announcers are there, I'm comfortable with the Big East thinking about the future rather than the past.

A potential issue with streaming-only deals, as indicated by Apple's offer for just before the demise of the PAC 12, is that they may be subscription-based, meaning that the amount of guaranteed money to schools is lower. With budgets both growing and including 'base costs' it becomes more of a risk. And, with BEast not having the same huge alumni base as state schools, that may feel like even a larger risk to them.

[dgies9156]

dgies9156:
Every time you bring up that Miami of Ohio game, I have PTSD from being in the stands watching another natty go down the drain.

Brother Herm:

It was a terribly sad day in MU history. The PTSD from that moment lasted for decades. Only now are we truly getting back to where we should be!

I was in Dubuque, Iowa with my then-girlfriend (now my wife of 43 years) that day. Kinda wrote it off as one of those "things that happen." Didn't realize how bad it was until we thought we had a great recruiting year when we brought in Terrell Schlundt.

The amount of lost opportunity in the 1980s and 1990s was astronomical. Only God knows for sure  how much money we didn't raise because we tried like hell to kill off the basketball program.

Morale of the story: Athletic Department Administration that fields a consistently winning team at a high level is the most important thing a school can do. It's nice to be in the BIG, but unless Washington and Oregon can compete for a football natty regularly playing Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State and a resurgent Illinois, they are nobody. Ditto for UCLA and USC!

Yes, Minnesota and Northwestern get big paydays but does anyone think either school ever will be elite. Ditto for Vanderbilt, Missouri, Kentucky and Mississippi State in the SEC!

[79Warrior]

Big East has been a steady fixture for Fox and Fox Sports. I would hope that remains the case going forward given that the league is now a proven product .

True. As long as the ratings are there the conference will get a good deal. I don't know how BE Bball ratings stack up against the other conferences.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Big East has been a steady fixture for Fox and Fox Sports. I would hope that remains the case going forward given that the league is now a proven product .

This.

[The Sultan]

Just remember that Fox and the Catholic 7 got together when both parties REALLY needed one another. Fox was launching FS1 and FS2, and the C7 were putting together a conference that needed a media outlet.

Fox doesn't need the Big East like it did then. Given the P12's experience, I am actually feeling pretty nervous about the next contract.

[MUfan12]

Just remember that Fox and the Catholic 7 got together when both parties REALLY needed one another. Fox was launching FS1 and FS2, and the C7 were putting together a conference that needed a media outlet.

Fox doesn't need the Big East like it did then. Given the P12's experience, I am actually feeling pretty nervous about the next contract.

I'm in the same boat as you. Unless half the schedule gets sold to CBSSN I don't see where they're gonna have room for BE content once the B1G expansion happens.

[Shooter McGavin]

Brother Herm:

It was a terribly sad day in MU history. The PTSD from that moment lasted for decades. Only now are we truly getting back to where we should be!

I was in Dubuque, Iowa with my then-girlfriend (now my wife of 43 years) that day. Kinda wrote it off as one of those "things that happen." Didn't realize how bad it was until we thought we had a great recruiting year when we brought in Terrell Schlundt.

The amount of lost opportunity in the 1980s and 1990s was astronomical. Only God knows for sure  how much money we didn't raise because we tried like hell to kill off the basketball program.

Morale of the story: Athletic Department Administration that fields a consistently winning team at a high level is the most important thing a school can do. It's nice to be in the BIG, but unless Washington and Oregon can compete for a football natty regularly playing Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State and a resurgent Illinois, they are nobody. Ditto for UCLA and USC!

Yes, Minnesota and Northwestern get big paydays but does anyone think either school ever will be elite. Ditto for Vanderbilt, Missouri, Kentucky and Mississippi State in the SEC!

Illinois football?  Have people 35 and younger ever heard of Illinois football?

Just in case they haven't.  Dick Butkus and Red Grange went to Illinois.