2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MU82]

My memory's a little cloudy, but I believe I've heard that some guy named Michael Jordan was a pretty good scorer.

The stats say he averaged more ppg than any player ever, that he once scored 41 a game in the NBA Finals, and that he made a few important shots in his career. But what do stats know?

[Hards Alumni]

My memory's a little cloudy, but I believe I've heard that some guy named Michael Jordan was a pretty good scorer.

The stats say he averaged more ppg than any player ever, that he once scored 41 a game in the NBA Finals, and that he made a few important shots in his career. But what do stats know?

Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.

[WhiteTrash]

Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.

I know many have said this before and I firmly believe it is true; Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's NBA.

[Hards Alumni]

I know many have said this before and I firmly believe it is true; Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's NBA.

Unfortunately, we will never know this to be a fact.

[lawdog77]

Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.

I think the statement was that Durant was the best scorer to ever play the game. Durant's close, but MJ is a better scorer IMO. Who cares about win shares, or giving the ball up. Different game, so eFG% is much different now than even when MJ played. 3pt shots are way up.

One can make a case for Wilt being the greatest scorer, but to paraphrase Redick, he was playing against plumbers and firemen.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Imo here are the 10 franchise players in the NBA right now in no particular order:

Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
Tatum
Doncic
Lebron
Durant
Booker
Morant
Curry

*Garland and Edwards could get there.

Morant isn't there yet.  I put him in the next tier with Kyrie Irving and Trae Young.

Jimmy Butler belongs on this list.  And when healthy, Kawhi Leonard has been a franchise player.

Booker is a borderline franchise player in my opinion.  An elite scorer, but he's not elite in any other area. But Phoenix figured out how to build around Booker perfectly.  An elite distributor in Chris Paul, an elite perimeter defender in Mikal Bridges, and an elite rebounder in DeAndre Ayton.  And all three are good complementary scorers.

But without the perfect supporting cast, I can't see Booker carrying a team to a title.

[4everwarriors]

Title...smytle, it don't matta.  He's porkin' Kendall

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game.  I would take him over Larry Bird in a heartbeat.  I don't think people have a good understand of how good he actually has been.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

KD's career numbers are slightly better than Steph. I think leadership & intangibles are on Steph's side by a decent margin.

Surprised you didn't bring up the eye-test too.

[wadesworld]

Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game.  I would take him over Larry Bird in a heartbeat.  I don't think people have a good understand of how good he actually has been.

Agreed.  If it wasn't for the injuries (he missed basically 2.5 seasons), his numbers would be that of a top 5 player to ever play the game.  As it is, I think he'll still wind up being a top 10 player ever.

[Jockey]

Great thread.  The old guys were great for their time and would get absolutely abused in today's game.  They were bigger and more athletic than anyone in their period.  Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid. 

So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk. 

[Hards Alumni]

So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk. 

That isn't what I said.  But keep going.

[Uncle Rico]

So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk. 

Ruth was a fat drunk and AWESOME

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

I think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt would be today and I don't think it's particularly close.  Kareem has more of a diverse offensive skill set and I think would thrive in today's NBA. 

[Jockey]

That isn't what I said.  But keep going.

You said "Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid."

The clear implication was that they couldn't compete.

[MuggsyB]

Isn't it conceivable that the players of yesteryear would adjust to today's game and train completely differently? 

[Jockey]

Ruth was a fat drunk and AWESOME

I should have said Mantle instead. He wasn't fat.

[Jockey]

Isn't it conceivable that the players of yesteryear would adjust to today's game and train completely differently?

Of course it is. If Bird played today, he would probably be one of the 3 best 3 point shooters in the League. It was not a priority when he played.

On the other hand, he may not have even been good enough to make it to the NBA (at least according to the way some posters here think  )


Kareem is the ultimate example. He was so good that they changed the rules so that he couldn't dunk the ball anymore because he was too tall, too quick, too athletic. So He re-built his offensive game to become possible the greatest offensive player ever.

[jficke13]

So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk. 

Do people ever do the opposite? What would Giannis of 2022 do if he entered the NBA in 1959?

[Hards Alumni]

You said "Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid."

The clear implication was that they couldn't compete.

No, I said it was stupid.  Because the game is very different.

There was no implication that they couldn't compete.  You cooked that up in your noodle.

[lawdog77]

Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game. 

LBJ says hello. So does De'Andre Hunter

[MuggsyB]

Of course it is. If Bird played today, he would probably be one of the 3 best 3 point shooters in the League. It was not a priority when he played.

On the other hand, he may not have even been good enough to make it to the NBA (at least according to the way some posters here think  )


Kareem is the ultimate example. He was so good that they changed the rules so that he couldn't dunk the ball anymore because he was too tall, too quick, too athletic. So He re-built his offensive game to become possible the greatest offensive player ever.

It also seems to me that the game was much more physical back in the day on the ball.  I see guys get mugged off the ball but there are far more touch fouls on the perimeter and a lot more flopping.  I think the biggest change is we are seeing much more overall ball skills from taller/bigger guys. But on the other hand very few play in the post.  I have a lot of difficulty believing Shaq wouldn't just annihilate people in this era. 

[Jockey]

It also seems to me that the game was much more physical back in the day on the ball.  I see guys get mugged off the ball but there are far more touch fouls on the perimeter and a lot more flopping.  I think the biggest change is we are seeing much more overall ball skills from taller/bigger guys. But on the other hand very few play in the post.  I have a lot of difficulty believing Shaq wouldn't just annihilate people in this era.

That has to be taken with a grain of salt. If NBA guards today played against the Big O, they would very seldom get the ball past mid-court. They would be called for carrying the ball on virtually every play.

Of course they would adjust - but it would take away many of the things they are able to do so easily now.

Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys. There are just MORE athletes today.

[MuggsyB]

That has to be taken with a grain of salt. If NBA guards today played against the Big O, they would very seldom get the ball past mid-court. They would be called for carrying the ball on virtually every play.

Of course they would adjust - but it would take away many of the things they are able to do so easily now.

Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys. There are just MORE athletes today.

Here's an example I am thinking about:
Would you take KAT over Kareem, Shaq, or Tim Duncan?  I don't see it frankly but it sounds like for some Scoopers they would clearly go with Towns.

[Hards Alumni]

Here's an example I am thinking about:
Would you take KAT over Kareem, Shaq, or Tim Duncan?  I don't see it frankly but it sounds like for some Scoopers they would clearly go with Towns.

KAT isn't a first ballot HOFer.

Zero people here would take KAT.