2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[The Sultan]

Magic Johnson was considered pretty darn athletic for his day.  I don't think he would be considered so now.

[MuggsyB]

Magic Johnson was considered pretty darn athletic for his day.  I don't think he would be considered so now.

Yep.  Who knows if he or Bird would even get minutes on the Atlanta Hawks?

[lawdog77]

On pure athleticism, I'm not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I'd argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It's just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.

Dominic might be my favorite MU player, but he was not as athletic as prime MJ. Jordans vertical was 46, compared to 38.5 for Dom. Wilt might be those most athletic. Of course, not sure how many of his stories are fish stories. Like lifting Arnold (schwarzzennaegger, not the kid from Different strokes) with one arm. He supposedly had a 48 inch vertical as well.

[MuggsyB]

Dominic might be my favorite MU player, but he was not as athletic as prime MJ. Jordans vertical was 46, compared to 38.5 for Dom. Wilt might be those most athletic. Of course, not sure how many of his stories are fish stories. Like lifting Arnold (schwarzzennaegger, not the kid from Different strokes) with ne arm. He supposedly had a 48 inch vertical as well.

Muggsy had a legitimate 44.5 vert which was solidified at the NBA combine in 1984.  He could also bench 335 lbs. 

[The Sultan]

Yep.  Who knows if he or Bird would even get minutes on the Atlanta Hawks?

Don't be silly now.  Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard whose only real weakness was outside shooting.  (And he improved on that late in his career.)
Best point guard of all time and IMO would have no issue playing in this era.

Bird would be great too obviously.  I think his game would be harder to translate to now.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Muggsy had a legitimate 44.5 vert which was solidified at the NBA combine in 1984.  He could also bench 335 lbs. 

I loved seeing Muggsy in that new Ceasar's sportsbook commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNfFsVfBi0

[Jockey]

Bird would be great too obviously.  I think his game would be harder to translate to now.

I'd be interested in your reasoning for this.

Doncic seems to have no trouble with today's game and Bird was more skilled than he is.

[MuggsyB]

I loved seeing Muggsy in that new Ceasar's sportsbook commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNfFsVfBi0

Muggsy is a solid human being and an outstanding role model for both diminutive and non-diminutive human beings.  Tremendous heart and toughness and perhaps the greatest zoomability with the rock in NBA history. 

[Jockey]

I think you underestimate how athletic the guys are now. Amazing dunks 15 years ago look routine. Heck, even the Vince Carter dunk contest looks a little pedestrian now.

On pure athleticism, I'm not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I'd argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It's just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.

I do know how crazy athletic guys are now. Best athletes in the world. And remember, I am not talking about 30+ MJ. I am talking early 20's athletic prime.

Just curious - did you ever see him live in his first 5 years in the League? I probably averaged 15-20 games a year, so I saw everyone play. No one could touch MJ's combination of athletic abilities.

[The Sultan]

I'd be interested in your reasoning for this.

Doncic seems to have no trouble with today's game and Bird was more skilled than he is.

First, I don't believe that to be the case.  Second, I think he would struggle more with the quickness of the defenses compared to his era.  Third, I did say he would still be "great."

[Uncle Rico]

As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever

[Hards Alumni]

First, I don't believe that to be the case.  Second, I think he would struggle more with the quickness of the defenses compared to his era.  Third, I did say he would still be "great."

Larry worked his ass off for every bucket, and was the definition of a gym rat.  I think we saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure that if Larry worked any harder that he'd have been a better player.

Aka, we saw Larry at his absolute best and top of his potential.

[The Sultan]

I do know how crazy athletic guys are now. Best athletes in the world. And remember, I am not talking about 30+ MJ. I am talking early 20's athletic prime.

Just curious - did you ever see him live in his first 5 years in the League? I probably averaged 15-20 games a year, so I saw everyone play. No one could touch MJ's combination of athletic abilities.

He had Ja Morant's vertical and was about four or five inches taller.  The reason he became such an icon even before his championships was because the NBA had never quite seen that type of athleticism before.  (For cultural reference sake, the original Air Jordans came out in 1985.)  Dr. J was probably the standard bearer at the time, but he was nowhere near Jordan.

[Mutaman]

Both Wilt and Jordan averaged exactly 30.1 points per game for their career.

[Jockey]

Larry worked his ass off for every bucket, and was the definition of a gym rat.  I think we saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure that if Larry worked any harder that he'd have been a better player.

Aka, we saw Larry at his absolute best and top of his potential.

"We saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime"

And you, good sir, are the esteemed winner of the "2022 Mr. Obvious" award.

[Spotcheck Billy]

As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever

Muggsy will not be happy

[lawdog77]

As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever

Plumbers and fireman, my friend.

[Uncle Rico]

Larry Bird would come out against todays players and drop 50

[brewcity77]

Larry Bird would come out against todays players and drop 50

He'd have to...he's not nearly as svelte as he was back in the day.

[Hards Alumni]

"We saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime"

And you, good sir, are the esteemed winner of the "2022 Mr. Obvious" award.

I should have said "potential".  Many players don't live up to their potential.  Larry maximized everything about his game.

[MuggsyB]

Again, there's this misnomer that running and  jumping mean everything.  Didn't Bird do alright vs Dominique Wilkins?  As far as I know no one could guard Bird at all until he threw out his back.

Nowitzki seemed to manage okay in the 2011 Finals vs Lebron and Wade.

[Uncle Rico]

He'd have to...he's not nearly as svelte as he was back in the day.

He's drop 50 on Jimmy in that outfit

[The Sultan]

Again, there's this misnomer that running and  jumping mean everything.  Didn't Bird do alright vs Dominique Wilkins?  As far as I know no one could guard Bird at all until he threw out his back.

Nowitzki seemed to manage okay in the 2011 Finals vs Lebron and Wade.

Nowitzki also had inches on Bird.

But your Dominique statement reminded me that I saw this just a few weeks ago.  There is no doubt that he was a great player, but just look at this.  The first thing I noticed was how slow and under the basket 1980s NBA stands in comparison to now.  You honestly think Bird would get away with simple pick plays getting him open at the free throw line now?  Especially considering the NBA can zone up now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Roy0sQyC4

Look, I have been watching the NBA for a long time.  The level of play that you see now is really much higher than then.  It's faster, elevated, with much more sophisticated defenses. 

[Hards Alumni]

He's drop 50 on Jimmy in that outfit

https://twitter.com/i/status/1519107718602240006

Sorry, I don't know how to embed such a thing.

[MuggsyB]

Nowitzki also had inches on Bird.

But your Dominique statement reminded me that I saw this just a few weeks ago.  There is no doubt that he was a great player, but just look at this.  The first thing I noticed was how slow and under the basket 1980s NBA stands in comparison to now.  You honestly think Bird would get away with simple pick plays getting him open at the free throw line now?  Especially considering the NBA can zone up now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Roy0sQyC4

Look, I have been watching the NBA for a long time.  The level of play that you see now is really much higher than then.  It's faster, elevated, with much more sophisticated defenses.

So your take is Nowitzki could adjust because of his height.  Okay.  So would either of them be as good as say Jimmy Butler or Demar DeRozan in this era?  Would they be as good as Dillon Brooks?  DeAndre Hunter?  Middleton?  Give us an idea where you think they would project if they played today.