2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MuggsyB]

KAT isn't a first ballot HOFer.

Zero people here would take KAT.

I believe you wrote "the older guys would get abused in today's game." 

[Hards Alumni]

I believe you wrote "the older guys would get abused in today's game."

Guys from the 90s and 2ks are not the older guys that were named.

We were discussing Wilt, Oscar, and Kareem.

[MuggsyB]

Guys from the 90s and 2ks are not the older guys that were named.

We were discussing Wilt, Oscar, and Kareem.

So Oscar Robertson and say Jerry West couldn't adjust their games to this era?  And Kareem, arguably the greatest college and NBA player in the history of the sport would struggle against today's bigs?  This is complete nonsense.  Russell and Wilt would be just fine as well. 

[Hards Alumni]

So Oscar Robertson and say Jerry West couldn't adjust their games to this era?  And Kareem, arguably the greatest college and NBA player in the history of the sport would struggle against today's bigs?  This is complete nonsense.  Russell and Wilt would be just fine as well.

That is what I'm saying, and it isn't nonsense.  Kareem might be the only exception to this rule.

[MuggsyB]

That is what I'm saying, and it isn't nonsense.  Kareem might be the only exception to this rule.

And I'm saying that's ridiculous.  We'll agree to disagree here. 

[Hards Alumni]

And I'm saying that's ridiculous.  We'll agree to disagree here.

Lol okay.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys.

This is incorrect.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If you put guys from the 70s in a time machine and had them play in the NBA today, they would perform considerably worse than they did in their own time periods.

If those guys were born in and came up in the modern era, they could be even more dominate than they were in their original times

[MuggsyB]

This is incorrect.

Yes, but they would train completely differently today.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, but they would train completely differently today.

But they still might not be the best.  The competition level today is incredible. 

[MU82]

Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.

The comment was that Durant is "the greatest scorer to ever play the game." Well, he simply isn't. It's either Kareem by total points or Jordan by career average. Those are facts.

Jordan in his prime would be the best scorer in today's NBA. That's an opinion ... though I know an old guy like me, reaching all the way back to the golden oldie days of 1996-98, have fuzzy memories when it comes to new-fangled basketball. Think of how many more points Jordan would have scored if they didn't have to pause the game to take the ball out of the peach basket every time.

[Hards Alumni]

The comment was that Durant is "the greatest scorer to ever play the game." Well, he simply isn't. It's either Kareem by total points or Jordan by career average. Those are facts.

Jordan in his prime would be the best scorer in today's NBA. That's an opinion ... though I know an old guy like me, reaching all the way back to the golden oldie days of 1996-98, have fuzzy memories when it comes to new-fangled basketball. Think of how many more points Jordan would have scored if they didn't have to pause the game to take the ball out of the peach basket every time.

No, it's very much up for debate since each era has different rule sets and different levels of competition.

It isn't "who scored the most points ever".  It isn't "who had the highest ppg for their career".

I'm sure you see the difference.  Otherwise no one would have chimed in at all.

[Jockey]

This is incorrect.

Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

[Hards Alumni]

Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

And many of the players today could probably excel at the events you listed as well.

This really boils down to the talent pool being much smaller versus today's crowded talent pool.

[Jockey]

No, it's very much up for debate since each era has different rule sets and different levels of competition.

It isn't "who scored the most points ever".  It isn't "who had the highest ppg for their career".

Nope. Recency bias takes precedent. It's all that matters. "I never saw those guys play so they couldn't possibly be better."

[Hards Alumni]

Nope. Recency bias takes precedent. It's all that matters. "I never saw those guys play so they couldn't possibly be better."

Nope.

[Jockey]

And many of the players today could probably excel at the events you listed as well.

This really boils down to the talent pool being much smaller versus today's crowded talent pool.

That's what I have been saying. But FEWER talented athletes does not mean LESS talented athletes.

[Jockey]

I absolutely love these discussions, guys. It is what makes following sports fun.

[JWags85]

Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.

[tower912]

Wilt played against a lot of guys built like Oso.   Big O was the first of the big power guards, but he was 6'5 and 220 being guarded by guys built like Kam or Stevie.   Wilt would have to adapt his game.   Big O would be routinely guarded by players bigger than he was.    He would adapt, I doubt he would dominate.    Could Erving play small forward today at 6'6?  Wouldn't he need more range on his jumper and better ball handling skills?


Murf  was an outstanding PF in his day who played against Bill Russell in the post.   Murf was 6'4.     Name the last successful 6'4 post player.   Barkley?   David Boone?  Roosevelt Chapman?  Dantley?

[lawdog77]

MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.

The PED's and weed are better now. So Jordan might have been able to dunk from the logo in today's world.

[WhiteTrash]

Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

IMHO, There has never been a more athletic player than MJ, maybe just as athletic but not more. The same with his skill set and desire to win. I guess that's why most consider him the best.

I love these discussions too. Fun stuff.

I can't stand people who get offended or mad if you assert their guy (MJ, LBJ, Kareem etc.) are second best or "only" top 5. That is a huge compliment that that player is in the top 0.001% of all time. MJ is my guy but if someone thinks LBJ is better and MJ is #2,  that person appreciates how great MJ was and that's cool.

[Jockey]

MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.

You never saw a young MJ on the court. If you had, your opinion might change. You certainly would not say that Anthony Edwards was as good of an athlete. I have only seen 3 guys where the opposing team's crowd would stand as one when they started a drive to the basket - MJ, Dr. J, and Connie Hawkins.


Virtually every player other than MJ who has dunked from the FT line either did it by sprinting from the fat end of the court or were past the line when they left the ground. There are absolutely NOT 50+ players who can do this.

[cheebs09]

You never saw a young MJ on the court. If you had, your opinion might change. You certainly would not say that Anthony Edwards was as good of an athlete. I have only seen 3 guys where the opposing team's crowd would stand as one when they started a drive to the basket - MJ, Dr. J, and Connie Hawkins.


Virtually every player other than MJ who has dunked from the FT line either did it by sprinting from the fat end of the court or were past the line when they left the ground. There are absolutely NOT 50+ players who can do this.

I think you underestimate how athletic the guys are now. Amazing dunks 15 years ago look routine. Heck, even the Vince Carter dunk contest looks a little pedestrian now.

On pure athleticism, I'm not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I'd argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It's just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.

[MuggsyB]

Athleticism includes more than quicks and leaping ability.  And being great includes even more skills.  My take is Curry, Duncan, Doncic, Jokic, Bird, Magic, Stockton, Nash, Dantley,  Miller, and countless other Hall of Famers weren't considered "athletic" by these incomplete standards.  There's probably thousands and thousands of guys that can jump out of the gym and are quicker than these guys.  That does not mean they are better athletes or close to the same players.