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MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Uncle Rico on July 29, 2021, 04:37:59 PM

Title: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 29, 2021, 04:37:59 PM
Russell Westbrook to the Lakers
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on July 29, 2021, 04:53:48 PM
Russell Westbrook to the Lakers

Im CACKLING.  Of all the moves, why is this the move the Lakers needed to make?  Lebron and Westbook both need to be ball dominant.  Westbrook looking off AD and Lebron in crunch time to be heroic?  LOVE IT.  The stat hunting combo of Lebron and Westbrook will be hilarious

The Buddy Hield trade would have made tons of sense.  Dude would have had so many open looks and got back to being a 42-43% shooter he was before everyone key'd in on him.

I'll crack up if this further cements the Wizards moving Beal and he goes to the Warriors for Wiggins, Wiseman, and picks and they return in 21/22 with a 3 headed monster of Curry, Klay, and Beal and the Lakers trade 2 of their better shooters to run out a Westbrook/AD/Lebron trio who all shoot under 35% from 3 on a good day.  Sub 30% quite often.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on July 29, 2021, 04:59:31 PM
Im CACKLING.  Of all the moves, why is this the move the Lakers needed to make?  Lebron and Westbook both need to be ball dominant.  Westbrook looking off AD and Lebron in crunch time to be heroic?  LOVE IT.  The stat hunting combo of Lebron and Westbrook will be hilarious

The Buddy Hield trade would have made tons of sense.  Dude would have had so many open looks and got back to being a 42-43% shooter he was before everyone key'd in on him.

I'll crack up if this further cements the Wizards moving Beal and he goes to the Warriors for Wiggins, Wiseman, and picks and they return in 21/22 with a 3 headed monster of Curry, Klay, and Beal and the Lakers trade 2 of their better shooters to run out a Westbrook/AD/Lebron trio who all shoot under 35% from 3 on a good day.  Sub 30% quite often.

I think you are being too rough on Westbrook, but I agree with your point. Either Beal or Hield would have been a much better fit for the Lakers.

You're also right about 3 point shooting which you gotta have to win in today's NBA. I don't know where that is going to come from.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on July 29, 2021, 05:10:09 PM
I think you are being too rough on Westbrook, but I agree with your point. Either Beal or Hield would have been a much better fit for the Lakers.

You're also right about 3 point shooting which you gotta have to win in today's NBA. I don't know where that is going to come from.

I exaggerated a bit but Westbrook is who he is at this point.  He's a very talented player who can do some amazing things...but just doesn't win.  He's won 1 playoff series without Durant.  And he wasn't on teams with bums either. 

He's been especially bad in the playoffs.  Under 30% from 3 and still taking 4+ a game.  And his eFG has hovered around 40% which is horrible. 

If he was willing to play more like Rondo, it could work, but I just cant see that from him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on July 29, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Russell Westbrook to the Lakers

CDC is going to be concerned about overcrowding in the paint at the Staples center.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on July 29, 2021, 06:38:02 PM
Wow just wow.  Stunned.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 02, 2021, 06:41:55 PM
Portia resigns in Milwaukee for $9M over 2 years, second is player option. That's a steal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2021, 07:02:04 PM
Bulls got Ball(s).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 02, 2021, 07:06:54 PM
Portia resigns in Milwaukee for $9M over 2 years, second is player option. That's a steal.

Thats INCREDIBLE value.  He clearly likes it here and sees residual value in staying.

They got him for $1M more a year than Mike Muscala got in OKC.  Wow.

Lakers add a geriatric Trevor Ariza and a mediocre Wayne Ellington.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 02, 2021, 07:14:24 PM
Thats INCREDIBLE value.  He clearly likes it here and sees residual value in staying.

Just a great example of where this franchise has come. Not too long ago, this would be the franchise dropping $100M on Jarrett Allen
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 02, 2021, 07:26:55 PM
Just a great example of where this franchise has come. Not too long ago, this would be the franchise dropping $100M on Jarrett Allen

Honestly, thats not THAT bad of a deal.  He just averaged a double double and I didn't realize hes still only 23.  He's got a lot of upside
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 07:27:14 PM
Portia resigns in Milwaukee for $9M over 2 years, second is player option. That's a steal.

Where does his statue go?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 02, 2021, 07:34:19 PM
Unbelievable job by the Bucks to resign Portis.  Have you seen these contracts?   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 07:41:08 PM
Unbelievable job by the Bucks to resign Portis.  Have you seen these contracts?   

I said earlier I’m glad we have no cap space to keep us from doing a Plumlee type deal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 02, 2021, 08:18:05 PM
 Rumors were the bucks were going to re-sign PJ Tucker but he’s going to the Heat. Think the bucks will sign a quality back up PG.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 02, 2021, 08:25:55 PM
Rumors were the bucks were going to re-sign PJ Tucker but he’s going to the Heat. Think the bucks will sign a quality back up PG.

Who are they going after?  If Tucker got 15m for two years the Bucks made the right decision. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 02, 2021, 08:31:09 PM
Steph about to sign 4 yrs, 215 m.  Wow just wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 02, 2021, 08:31:27 PM
Who are they going after?  If Tucker got 15m for two years the Bucks made the right decision. 

Trying to land someone for a year on the mid level exception. Oladipo, Monk or Patty Mills.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 02, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
Who are they going after?  If Tucker got 15m for two years the Bucks made the right decision.

Some people on the Heat Reddit said Bucks offered more, but he chose the Heat. Can’t really blame him.

In my limited knowledge of the salary cap, it seems the Bucks biggest loss here is that they lose his contract for trade flexibility. They don’t free up any space due to him leaving because they had his Bird Rights.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 02, 2021, 08:34:48 PM
Some people on the Heat Reddit said Bucks offered more, but he chose the Heat. Can’t really blame him.

In my limited knowledge of the salary cap, it seems the Bucks biggest loss here is that they lose his contract for trade flexibility. They don’t free up any space due to him leaving because they had his Bird Rights.

This is accurate
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 02, 2021, 08:50:19 PM
Trying to land someone for a year on the mid level exception. Oladipo, Monk or Patty Mills.

Mills would be a nice fit. 

I don't think people realize how dominating Giannis will be the next 7 yrs minimum.  I believe the floodgates are about to open.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on August 02, 2021, 11:07:37 PM
Semi Ojeleye agreed to a one year deal with the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 02, 2021, 11:13:08 PM
Semi Ojeleye agreed to a one year deal with the Bucks.

Interesting defensive flyer. He's not Tucker, but his fit could be similar. More importantly, though, I am super here for garbage time with both Semi and Thanasis
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 03, 2021, 05:44:03 AM
So what’s the difference between the Bogdan sign and trade situation that was “tampering” vs all the other sign and trade deals that happened yesterday right at the start of free agency?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 03, 2021, 05:48:44 AM
So what’s the difference between the Bogdan sign and trade situation that was “tampering” vs all the other sign and trade deals that happened yesterday right at the start of free agency?

I want to know the difference of that and the Lakers deal where Lebron had Westbrook over to his house to talk about teaming up a month ago.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 06:16:40 AM
So what’s the difference between the Bogdan sign and trade situation that was “tampering” vs all the other sign and trade deals that happened yesterday right at the start of free agency?

Woj worded the tweet differently. I’m not entirely sure of the difference, especially the Lowry sign and trade.

Although, I’m not sure the Bucks get Tucker/Portis if that goes through, so I’m at peace with it other than the principle of it and lost draft pick.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 07:47:22 AM
Woj worded the tweet differently. I’m not entirely sure of the difference, especially the Lowry sign and trade.

Although, I’m not sure the Bucks get Tucker/Portis if that goes through, so I’m at peace with it other than the principle of it and lost draft pick.


Agreed. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 09:06:56 AM
Woj worded the tweet differently. I’m not entirely sure of the difference, especially the Lowry sign and trade.

Although, I’m not sure the Bucks get Tucker/Portis if that goes through, so I’m at peace with it other than the principle of it and lost draft pick.

I’d also add that there were some rumors Lasry was bragging about the trade on the governor’s call. Others said it wasn’t out of the norm. It’s possible the owners took it well beyond the wink wink type of tampering to being so brazen the NBA had to do something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 09:29:25 AM
Also, there is a difference between players meeting together, which isn't really a violation on the face of it, and club executives engaging with players and reps and bragging about it.  I mean, all it would have taken in one executive complaining because they were all witnesses.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 10:13:17 AM
Mills would be a nice fit. 

I don't think people realize how dominating Giannis will be the next 7 yrs minimum.  I believe the floodgates are about to open.


We will see.  Having three players on big contracts makes it really hard to make moves.  Miami has done a good job so far, and the Nets are loaded.

The 2010 Packers taught me that you should savor the championships you win and hope for the best.  But nothing is guaranteed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 11:24:27 AM
Bucks signed Rodney Hood to a one year deal.  That could be sneaky good cause I think his injury limited him last year.  We know he can score.

So he finally comes to Milwaukee 11 years after he was being recruited by Buzz.  I think MU was a finalist?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 03, 2021, 11:26:13 AM
If Hood's for the min (has to be right??), this is good. Still has upside in a healthy season. It's no longer 2018, but it's not like he's over the hill.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 11:26:49 AM
Yeah I think if they used the MLE on him that would be a mistake.  We will see.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 11:29:41 AM
Yeah I think if they used the MLE on him that would be a mistake.  We will see.

Based on the Raptors releasing him, I’m guessing it’s the minimum. I could see Oladipo with the MLE.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2021, 11:41:09 AM
Based on the Raptors releasing him, I’m guessing it’s the minimum. I could see Oladipo with the MLE.

Yea, everything I'm seeing is vet minimum.  MLE is the key piece left for the Bucks
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on August 03, 2021, 11:50:00 AM
Yea, everything I'm seeing is vet minimum.  MLE is the key piece left for the Bucks

Hood and Ojeleye are good adds on the vet minimum.  Adds two guys who can give good minutes off the bench, with Hood adding shooting and Ojeleye adding defense (he's a good matchup against 6th man instant offense wings on other team's second units) and keeps the MLE intact.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
Hood is a very low risk but high reward pick-up for the Bucks.  I believe he has dealt with Injuries in recent years but he is capable of scoring the ball from a variety of spots.  If he's healthy I would say he's a steal to have on the bench.  Is Donte D back?  I assume they're still looking for a back-up PG but I would say their moves, based on their financial flexibility, have been a solid A.  Ojeyle is underrated.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 03, 2021, 12:48:31 PM
Hood is a very low risk but high reward pick-up for the Bucks.  I believe he has dealt with Injuries in recent years but he is capable of scoring the ball from a variety of spots.  If he's healthy I would say he's a steal to have on the bench.  Is Donte D back?  I assume they're still looking for a back-up PG but I would say their moves, based on their financial flexibility, have been a solid A.  Ojeyle is underrated.
How about Markus as the backup PG?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
How about Markus as the backup PG?


I'm hoping they are targeting Oladipo for the MLE and him and Dante can both run the point if needed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 03, 2021, 01:01:43 PM

I'm hoping they are targeting Oladipo for the MLE and him and Dante can both run the point if needed.
If Oladipo can get back to anywhere near he once was, that would be quite the lineup.
Jrue
Oladipo
Kris
Greek
Brook
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2021, 01:03:46 PM
How about Markus as the backup PG?

Never been a passer/assist man and he can't play on-ball defense. Nothing about Markus says PG.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 01:11:00 PM

I'm hoping they are targeting Oladipo for the MLE and him and Dante can both run the point if needed.

If they somehow pull off VO, and he's relatively healthy, you couldn't ask for a better job from Bucks management.  If he is healthy?  Look out.  That's a dangerous, dangerous, team who will show no mercy FBM.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 03, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Patty Mills going to New Jersey
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on August 03, 2021, 02:34:30 PM
Patty Mills going to New Jersey

Smart move by him. I'm surprised its two years, though, and not a one year plus player option.  There is a pretty good chance Kyrie misses substantial time for some combo of injury and other Kyrie reasons, and at that point Mills is the primary pg on a team with Durant and Harden. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 02:40:27 PM
The Nets are the biggest concern for the Bucks.  I fully expect the Lakers to flame out. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 03, 2021, 02:45:06 PM
Smart move by him. I'm surprised its two years, though, and not a one year plus player option.  There is a pretty good chance Kyrie misses substantial time for some combo of injury and other Kyrie reasons, and at that point Mills is the primary pg on a team with Durant and Harden.
Chalk me up as one who thinks Patty Mills is overrated. Sub Par defensive ratting, low assist rate. He's an old 32 as well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 03, 2021, 02:46:31 PM
The LeBron, Carmelo, Westbrook combination is fascinating.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 02:51:46 PM
The LeBron, Carmelo, Westbrook combination is fascinating.

Reminds me a bit of the Malone/Payton Lakers team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 02:53:32 PM
The LeBron, Carmelo, Westbrook combination is fascinating.

Monk may be a good pick-up but I think they will fall short.  They're old and I don't think the pieces will come through when it's all said and done.  Defensively, I'm not sold.  I would take the Bucks or Nets and I expect the media to slobber all over LA and Brooklyn while Milwaukee will be right there and probably better than both of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 03:04:05 PM
Patty Mills going to New Jersey

Where?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 03:27:25 PM
Monk may be a good pick-up but I think they will fall short.  They're old and I don't think the pieces will come through when it's all said and done.  Defensively, I'm not sold.  I would take the Bucks or Nets and I expect the media to slobber all over LA and Brooklyn while Milwaukee will be right there and probably better than both of them.

The Monk signing was perfect for the Lakers. Little risk, potentially very high reward. He is an extremely talented, athletic player who can take over games when he's hot. The Hornets had it going pretty good last season before all the injuries gutted them, and Monk had some amazing stretches. But he is very inconsistent, too; can be great 2 games and then disappear for 2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2021, 03:34:39 PM
Monk is the only Lakers signing I think has any real upside.  I saw a tweeting quoting the combined 3pt percentage of Monk, Ariza, Bazemore, and Ellington, but come on.  If you think Bazemore is the key piece for that team, or Wayne Ellington who wasn't even top 10 in scoring for a bad Pistons team...I don't know what to tell you.

Melo is amusing.  I liked him in Portland but I don't think this is a good fit at all.  They are going to wear down badly IMO, and they don't have the talent to coast in the regular season and get a top 4 seed.

Derozan to the Bulls is REALLY interesting.  Vuc, Lavine, Demar, and Lonzo Ball is quite intriguing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 03, 2021, 03:38:19 PM
Monk is the only Lakers signing I think has any real upside.  I saw a tweeting quoting the combined 3pt percentage of Monk, Ariza, Bazemore, and Ellington, but come on.  If you think Bazemore is the key piece for that team, or Wayne Ellington who wasn't even top 10 in scoring for a bad Pistons team...I don't know what to tell you.

Melo is amusing.  I liked him in Portland but I don't think this is a good fit at all.  They are going to wear down badly IMO, and they don't have the talent to coast in the regular season and get a top 4 seed.

Derozan to the Bulls is REALLY interesting.  Vuc, Lavine, Demar, and Lonzo Ball is quite intriguing.

Bulls have totally remade the team. If the pieces all fit once the ball starts bouncing, it will have been a pretty amazing transformation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 04:05:03 PM
Bulls have totally remade the team. If the pieces all fit once the ball starts bouncing, it will have been a pretty amazing transformation.

They certainly improved their roster and got a lot more interesting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on August 03, 2021, 04:13:09 PM
Good news is that the Lakers are poised to win the 2012 NBA championship
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 04:15:02 PM
Good news is that the Lakers are poised to win the 2012 NBA championship

Lol.  Well played.  It's very easy for people to dislike the Lakers and Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 03, 2021, 05:19:46 PM
Lol.  Well played.  It's very easy for people to dislike the Lakers and Brooklyn.

Or the Dodgers and Yankees.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 03, 2021, 05:24:15 PM
Where?

New Jersey is a suburb of St. Louis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 03, 2021, 05:43:23 PM
Smart move by him. I'm surprised its two years, though, and not a one year plus player option.  There is a pretty good chance Kyrie misses substantial time for some combo of injury and other Kyrie reasons, and at that point Mills is the primary pg on a team with Durant and Harden.

Out - Fell off end of the earth
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on August 03, 2021, 06:36:05 PM
No idea if the Bulls will be any good, but it’s nice that they are at least interesting now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 03, 2021, 06:49:04 PM
George Hill coming back to Milwaukee
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 03, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
No idea if the Bulls will be any good, but it’s nice that they are at least interesting now.

More moves to be made to round out the team but there's a lot of talent now. Could be a disaster or could be a top 4 or 5 seed in the East. Did not realize Derozan averaged almost 7 assists last season. He can get to the line, which was a clear team weakness.

Surprised they were able to acquire Ball and Derozan without including Markkanen in either of the deals so curious to see what happens there. Need to fill out the roster hopefully with another wing and some bigs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 03, 2021, 07:19:38 PM
I’d also add that there were some rumors Lasry was bragging about the trade on the governor’s call. Others said it wasn’t out of the norm. It’s possible the owners took it well beyond the wink wink type of tampering to being so brazen the NBA had to do something.




Kinda like his son bragging 'bout skipping the line to get his vaccine. D.C. is just waiting for another idiot to call it home, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2021, 07:23:20 PM
More moves to be made to round out the team but there's a lot of talent now. Could be a disaster or could be a top 4 or 5 seed in the East. Did not realize Derozan averaged almost 7 assists last season. He can get to the line, which was a clear team weakness.

Surprised they were able to acquire Ball and Derozan without including Markkanen in either of the deals so curious to see what happens there. Need to fill out the roster hopefully with another wing and some bigs.

Derozan is also a good dude, and a solid vet presence for a team that needs one.  Him and Vuc should help a lot there.

As for Markkanen, I wouldn't be shocked if he was further trade bait.  I just don't see him in the long term plans.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 07:46:31 PM
George Hill coming back to Milwaukee

Hmmm.  Minimum or MLE? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 03, 2021, 08:42:38 PM
Can’t be MLE because oladipo and bucks are progressing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 03, 2021, 08:53:43 PM
Can’t be MLE because oladipo and bucks are progressing.

Hmmm....ty.  Wow....that could be a phenomenal get for the Bucks.  I don't know how they could do/have done better when you consider Portis' deal.  If they get VO and are relatively healthy I like their chances.  No holes on that potential roster and all three min guys they picked up can handle a bit and hit the triple.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 03, 2021, 09:00:02 PM
George Hill coming back to Milwaukee


Eh. Ok I guess.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 09:17:07 PM
George Hill coming back to Milwaukee

I’m a little surprised. I thought he kind of tanked the bubble team a bit by not wanting to be there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 03, 2021, 10:06:25 PM
I’m a little surprised. I thought he kind of tanked the bubble team a bit by not wanting to be there.

I think its pretty fleshed out that Giannis, among others, did not want to be there. Hill was an asset to that team all season. Whether he has anything left in the tank is TBD. But he was the league leader from 3 that season, so that can't hurt
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on August 03, 2021, 10:23:39 PM

Eh. Ok I guess.

Good pickup if he fills the 10 MPG role that Teague was playing. Don't want to ask much more of him than that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 04, 2021, 11:01:16 AM
FWIW, The Athletic's John Hollinger hates the Bulls' deal for DeRozan. Snippet from his opinion piece:

The agreement on Tuesday will pay DeRozan the fairly staggering sum of $85 million over three years, and cost the Bulls a first-round pick and two second-round picks, and surrendering big man Thaddeus Young.

DeRozan can certainly score, and he passes well enough to operate as a de facto point guard at times, but he turns 32 this week, doesn’t shoot 3s and is a subpar defender.

BORD$ valued him at $16.2 million for this year, with that figure obviously declining in the out years as he gets further into his 30s. Even a rosy outlook would have his value over a three-year deal topping out at about $40 million. There’s a chance this could be one of the worst value contracts in the league by 2023-24.

The other side of this is his value specific to the Bulls, which admittedly is a bit higher. DeRozan is better as a floor-raiser than a ceiling-lifter; he isn’t massively efficient and it’s tough to play him off the ball, but his buckets can keep a bad offense afloat. Chicago, surely, is a team closer to the floor than the ceiling, ranking 19th in Offensive Efficiency last year. Oddly, the turnover on Chicago’s roster may leave defense as its bigger concern, with DeRozan, Nikola Vučević and Zach LaVine now the three pillars of the franchise.

Overall, it appears Chicago paid DeRozan roughly twice his projected value over the next three years.

Who were they bidding against? Of all the angles in this trade, the one that is by far the most bewildering is that the Bulls felt they had to step up to the amazing sum of $28 million a year for DeRozan. Finding anybody who had anywhere near the wherewithal, let alone the desire, to get to this price is quite a challenge.

Consider this: If they had paid half as much — $14 million a year — who was outbidding them? The Clippers and Lakers only had the taxpayer midlevel exception. The Knicks quickly burned through their cap space to lock in the six seed for the next three years. The only teams with the space to make a move here were Oklahoma City, which isn’t rebuilding around a 32-year-old, and DeRozan’s own team in San Antonio, which didn’t seem to be in that big a rush to bring him back.

Of course, this entire line of discourse assumes they had to have DeRozan. They didn’t, of course; there were plenty of alternatives in the marketplace, some of whom might have come considerably cheaper or with fewer fit issues.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 04, 2021, 11:08:02 AM
DeRozan is supposed to be a good teammate and off the court guy too.  But you don't double one's pay over that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 04, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
DeRozan is supposed to be a good teammate and off the court guy too.  But you don't double one's pay over that.

Yeah, and I was just relaying what Hollinger, a former NBA exec, said. I don't know enough about DeRozan or the Bulls' roster, to make a judgment.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on August 04, 2021, 12:53:36 PM
Can’t be MLE because oladipo and bucks are progressing.

Or not. Oladipo staying with the Heat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 04, 2021, 02:17:53 PM
Or not. Oladipo staying with the Heat.

Lets unnatural carnal knowledgein go!

We'll see if he can make his way into a backup role this season. He's been injured for a while now.

Update: Dipo's camp thinks he can play by December. Heat Doctors are saying March. The Heat kept him to maintain Bird rights.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on August 04, 2021, 02:26:37 PM
I wonder if the Derozan overpay is a make good with Aaron Goodwin on something else. The only player that Goodwin represents that it would make sense on is Lillard.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 05:18:55 PM
Or not. Oladipo staying with the Heat.

Who are the Bucks targeting now? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 04, 2021, 06:57:21 PM
Iz Reggie Jackson still on da table, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 07:09:03 PM
Iz Reggie Jackson still on da table, hey?

Interesting.  But I would think he would get more than the MLE?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 04, 2021, 07:36:23 PM
Could target someone like Danny Green, though you have to think he could fetch more than the T-MLE. Iguodala might be someone worth considering for what he brings from a defensive perspective.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 07:39:06 PM
Lou Williams? Reddick?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 04, 2021, 07:49:40 PM
Forgot about Reddick. Assumed he doesn't hold fond memories of Milwaukee to return on any sort of sweetheart deal. Though I would have said that about Hill too
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 07:53:30 PM
Iguodola can barely get down the court.  There's gotta be someone out there we're missing.  Trey Burke?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 07:56:05 PM
Oh.....Burke is signed.  Who's out there now?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 04, 2021, 08:14:07 PM
Josh Hart coming off injury, but he's an RFA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 04, 2021, 08:18:27 PM
Dennis Schröeder
Reggie Jackson
Danny Green
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 04, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Dennis Schröeder
Reggie Jackson
Danny Green

How can they snag Schroeder or Jackson? Is there someone under the radar?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on August 04, 2021, 09:02:36 PM
Lou Williams? Reddick?
Lou Williams has ties to Milwaukee. He is  JJJ s Uncle 🥸
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2021, 05:59:05 AM
Could target someone like Danny Green, though you have to think he could fetch more than the T-MLE. Iguodala might be someone worth considering for what he brings from a defensive perspective.

He is 37 years old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 05, 2021, 07:22:14 AM
Danny Green off the table. Schroeder might be their best option for a position of need at this point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on August 05, 2021, 10:28:32 AM
Danny Green off the table. Schroeder might be their best option for a position of need at this point.

Agree he may be the best option, but he's not signing with Milwaukee. He's going to take the years and money elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 05, 2021, 11:40:13 AM
Danny Green off the table. Schroeder might be their best option for a position of need at this point.

I don't want Schroder any more than the teams he has played on did. Very talented - not worth the trouble.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2021, 11:43:10 AM
Ironically, Schroeder is the guy the Hawks were going to draft with their second pick in 2013 to team up with Giannis.  But the Bucks got Giannis ahead of the Hawks.

Anyway, I don't think the Bucks need him. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 05, 2021, 11:47:30 AM
I don't want Schroder any more than the teams he has played on did. Very talented - not worth the trouble.

From the little bit I’ve read, he doesn’t sound like the greatest locker room guy. That he becomes difficult if he feels he’s not getting enough touches and minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 05, 2021, 12:35:29 PM
I disagree on Schroeder.  There's basically no risk and potentially a very high reward.  If he's a Cancer then you eat a low contract but still have every opportunity to defend the title.  He knows he's not coming to Milwaukee as option 1, 2, or 3 .  If he's only interested in mins and touches he will not be on the Bucks' roster.  But if he agrees to come you would have to think he understands he'll have a truncated role?  If the Bucks can bring in a guy off the bench capable of instant offense I think you have to pull the trigger. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2021, 12:42:38 PM
He turned down a $80 million extension from the Lakers - probably a dumb move.  I doubt he is playing for the MLE in Milwaukee.

I would rather look at Lou Williams or even kick the tires on Paul Milsap.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 05, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
He turned down a $80 million extension from the Lakers - probably a dumb move.  I doubt he is playing for the MLE in Milwaukee.

I would rather look at Lou Williams or even kick the tires on Paul Milsap.

Very dumb move because few teams have money which means he may have to sign short-term.  Milsap would be an interesting pick-up as would LW.  I do agree that they have enough but it's nice to add a proven bench scorer. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 05, 2021, 02:46:08 PM
He turned down a $80 million extension from the Lakers - probably a dumb move.  I doubt he is playing for the MLE in Milwaukee.

I would rather look at Lou Williams or even kick the tires on Paul Milsap.

Millsap is ancient and they don't need the post presence.  Lou Williams will be able to come in cold and get buckets at a moments notice until he's 45.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2021, 02:48:07 PM
Lou just resigned with Atlanta.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 05, 2021, 03:03:05 PM
Lou just resigned with Atlanta.

Sounds like the Bucks are done.  Unless you decide to lace them up FBM.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 05, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
I think I overestimated the allure of a ring compared to having to live in Milwaukee for a full year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 05, 2021, 03:12:07 PM
I think I overestimated the allure of a ring compared to having to live in Milwaukee for a full year.

I suppose Brooklyn is a slight favorite now but I think the Bucks will be fine.   They will likely pick up another piece at some point. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 05, 2021, 03:17:50 PM
I suppose Brooklyn is a slight favorite now but I think the Bucks will be fine.   They will likely pick up another piece at some point.

Sammy Hauser?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2021, 03:45:38 PM
Could the Bucks keep their mid-level exception open for a possible trade later in the year?  Is that a thing?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 05, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
Could the Bucks keep their mid-level exception open for a possible trade later in the year?  Is that a thing?

Yes but they used a significant part of it for Hill
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2021, 06:30:16 PM
Yes but they used a significant part of it for Hill


Yeah. I guess they like him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 05, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
Sammy Hauser?

I think he has a 30% chance of making a roster but I've been wrong before. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on August 05, 2021, 08:07:02 PM
I think he has a 30% chance of making a roster but I've been wrong before. 

As a two-way call up, even 30% is a bit lofty. I’d say 18%
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 06, 2021, 10:03:30 AM
There's internet chit-chat about Wesley Matthews potentially signing with the Heat. I'd love to see Wes and Jimmy play together.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 12:19:41 PM
Hornets land Kelly Oubre, arguably the best FA remaining.

I like it; they needed a capable backup for the oft-injured Gordon Hayward. They can play them together, too, in a small-ball lineup.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 06, 2021, 02:24:54 PM
Bucks get Trips McGee for Merrill and 2nd rounders.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2021, 02:28:52 PM
Bucks get Trips McGee for Merrill and 2nd rounders.

Well ok. I guess I gotta cheer for the guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 06, 2021, 02:29:46 PM
Not a bad trade - he's a good player and a pretty good fit. Sam Merrill certainly wasn't getting time on this roster. Plus Bucks can swap him out for Brad Davison next offseason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 06, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
He saved me from having to see the Badgers win an NCAA Championship. Forever grateful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 06, 2021, 02:49:23 PM
He saved me from having to see the Badgers win an NCAA Championship. Forever grateful.

Damn straight.

Wow.... I didn't see this one coming at all.  He's a career 42% 3pt shooter.  Seems like a good deal for the Bucks?  I guess the only question mark is how much they'll miss Tucker?  But on paper their bench got better, especially if Hood is healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 06, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
Ticks off Badger fans, but had to give up a Legendary player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 06, 2021, 03:10:01 PM
This is a really smart trade.  Allen can shoot it, can go to the rim, and contrary to popular belief, according to some advanced metrics I read on Grizz sites during lunch, he's actually turned into an above average defender who can cover 1-3 capably.  They aren't bringing him in to be a starter, but he could be a great lite version of Divincenzo 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 06, 2021, 04:46:52 PM
This is a really smart trade.  Allen can shoot it, can go to the rim, and contrary to popular belief, according to some advanced metrics I read on Grizz sites during lunch, he's actually turned into an above average defender who can cover 1-3 capably.  They aren't bringing him in to be a starter, but he could be a great lite version of Divincenzo

I think you're right JWags.  Essentially the Bucks traded Tucker and Forbes for Hood, Ojeyle, Hill, and Allen.  Plus isn't Donte D back?  The value of Tucker may be greater than I think but I believe their playoffs bench went from 7 to 9 deep minimum.  Hood is the real wildcard here because before his injury he was a solid scorer with versatility.  He was excellent for Portland.  While the media will slobber over the Lakers, Nets, and Miami, the Bucks quietly got better imo.  I also expect Holiday to feel more comfortable and Giannis can raise his level.  Scary thought for the rest of the league.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:14 PM
Bucks have everything they need to repeat.

If forced to place a bet today, I'd bet on them.

Well done by their management team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 06, 2021, 07:11:08 PM
Allen was already a legend for his 2015 title game performance. Got an eternal pass from me for that. That this likely irks Bucky Bucks fans is just another reason to like it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2021, 11:58:56 PM
Bucks have everything they need to repeat.

If forced to place a bet today, I'd bet on them.

Well done by their management team.

The overall results were better than I expected.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 07, 2021, 01:12:45 PM
NBA investigating the Lonzo and Lowry sign and trade deals for tampering, per Woj and Shelburne
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 08, 2021, 02:03:30 PM
NBA investigating the Lonzo and Lowry sign and trade deals for tampering, per Woj and Shelburne

And yet crickets when Lebron admits to having the still-under-contract Westbrook over to his house for dinner to discuss coming to the Lakers. Per the NBA Constitution, Articles 35(e) and 35A(e), this is expressly forbidden and Lebron is talking about it like it's business as usual.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 08, 2021, 02:29:01 PM
And yet crickets when Lebron admits to having the still-under-contract Westbrook over to his house for dinner to discuss coming to the Lakers. Per the NBA Constitution, Articles 35(e) and 35A(e), this is expressly forbidden and Lebron is talking about it like it's business as usual.

Westbrook was traded, not a restricted free agent.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 08, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
Westbrook was traded, not a restricted free agent.

He was under contract and Lebron enticed him to another team. That's pretty obviously forbidden.

https://ak-static-int.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 08, 2021, 04:21:03 PM
He was under contract and Lebron enticed him to another team. That's pretty obviously forbidden.

https://ak-static-int.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf

Seems similar to the NCAA cracking down on recruiting violations. The NBA is being strategic in which ones they can likely prove. It’s pretty much everyone is doing it, let’s crackdown on the obvious ones we can prove. Which tend to be the sign and trades.

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1424094221288476675?s=20
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 08, 2021, 04:29:23 PM
He was under contract and Lebron enticed him to another team. That's pretty obviously forbidden.

https://ak-static-int.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf

It seems like the NBA is cracking down on pre-arranged deals, not trades that are mutually agreed upon deals. Players talk about playing by together all the time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 08, 2021, 04:46:36 PM
He was under contract and Lebron enticed him to another team. That's pretty obviously forbidden.

https://ak-static-int.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf

Maybe they're not enforcing this rule but it seems like a clear violation to me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 08, 2021, 04:49:49 PM
It seems like the NBA is cracking down on pre-arranged deals, not trades that are mutually agreed upon deals. Players talk about playing by together all the time.

When you have the most prominent player in 20 years openly talking about and flaunting that he brazenly violated the league constitution, that seems like a time to at least take a look at it. The trade might have been eventually agreed on, but the pre-agreement conversations almost certainly still impacted that it even happened.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on August 08, 2021, 06:37:09 PM
The NBA is only looking at cases where the executives are guilty. They are leaving the players alone, currently.

They’ll go after players when they need leverage over the NBAPA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 08, 2021, 06:54:35 PM
I think the NBA is staying clear of player to player communication unless coordination with a front office is brazen. Investigating the S&Ts seems in line with that line of thinking
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 08, 2021, 07:00:15 PM
I think the NBA is staying clear of player to player communication unless coordination with a front office is brazen. Investigating the S&Ts seems in line with that line of thinking

Exactly.  Straight trades are far, far down on the priority list.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on August 09, 2021, 11:55:32 AM
I think the NBA is staying clear of player to player communication unless coordination with a front office is brazen. Investigating the S&Ts seems in line with that line of thinking

And staying clear of ever punishing Lebron James.

e.g. He was allowed to go to the Tequila event during the playoff series with the Suns, without punishment. Yet Booker was told by the NBA that he couldn't attend or he would be suspended.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 09, 2021, 12:10:32 PM
And staying clear of ever punishing Lebron James.

e.g. He was allowed to go to the Tequila event during the playoff series with the Suns, without punishment. Yet Booker was told by the NBA that he couldn't attend or he would be suspended.


No he was not "allowed" to go.  He violated the protocols but it was determined his attendance didn't present a risk because it was outdoors and attendees either had to be vaccinated or show proof of a negative test.

Booker asked to attend his girlfriend's tequila brand launch which was indoors.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 10, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Source: heathoops.com

Luxury tax paid by each team since 2002

(https://i.imgur.com/LyZE1Jp.png)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 10, 2021, 12:28:15 PM
Source: heathoops.com

Luxury tax paid by each team since 2002

(https://i.imgur.com/LyZE1Jp.png)

Wow. The Knicks paid a lot of money to not be good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 11, 2021, 12:50:51 PM
Wow Jason Kidd is a scum bag. I can’t believe he got another job.

https://twitter.com/FakeTJHawke/status/1424848840293851142?s=20
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 11, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
Wow Jason Kidd is a scum bag. I can’t believe he got another job.

https://twitter.com/FakeTJHawke/status/1424848840293851142?s=20

Remember when people thought Giannis might want to re-up with him? I'm sure Luka is going to love him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 11, 2021, 01:17:24 PM
Agreed that Larry Sanders is a POS, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 11, 2021, 01:25:02 PM
Agreed that Larry Sanders is a POS, hey?

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/l3vRo9nQXQtTnsbAI/200w.webp?cid=ecf05e47ln1qunaj6z5ug2hng3xxkj8qzqj7r228yvjtm193&rid=200w.webp&ct=g)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 01:40:46 PM
Wow Jason Kidd is a scum bag. I can’t believe he got another job.

https://twitter.com/FakeTJHawke/status/1424848840293851142?s=20

How many stories of coaches "back in the day" would do similar things to high school or college kids and the behavior applauded?

Just an interesting dichotomy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 11, 2021, 01:49:31 PM
Kidd has had several serious issues in his past that go well beyond his coaching.  The fact that he's back coaching and in Dallas of all places is pretty troubling.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 03:20:42 PM
even not knowing he's a lunatic to his players, he was always a terrible coach who spat in the face of the evolution of the game. Him getting another job would be like being a surgeon, routinely and blatantly insisting on amputating the wrong leg of every patient you have, getting fired because that's clearly bad, and getting another job as a leg surgeon a year later despite everyone in the world knowing about your wrong leg amputation habit.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on August 11, 2021, 03:27:40 PM
even not knowing he's a lunatic to his players, he was always a terrible coach who spat in the face of the evolution of the game. Him getting another job would be like being a surgeon, routinely and blatantly insisting on amputating the wrong leg of every patient you have, getting fired because that's clearly bad, and getting another job as a leg surgeon a year later despite everyone in the world knowing about your wrong leg amputation habit.

Basketball Twitter was very pro-Kidd and clamoring for him to get another job, which was really weird.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on August 11, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Basketball Twitter was very pro-Kidd and clamoring for him to get another job, which was really weird.

Does no one remember him as a coach? He was awful. Like "make Wojo look like Ike in 1944" levels of generalship. If memory serves he was right during the evolution into the efficiency-focused analytics explosion and just steadfastly channeled his inner meathead and refused under any circumstances to consider those changes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 11, 2021, 03:47:46 PM
Does no one remember him as a coach? He was awful. Like "make Wojo look like Ike in 1944" levels of generalship. If memory serves he was right during the evolution into the efficiency-focused analytics explosion and just steadfastly channeled his inner meathead and refused under any circumstances to consider those changes.

I thought he was pretty good his first year. His defense confused teams I think and they overachieved. Then they figured it out and killed the Bucks with corner threes.

Also, you can’t deny Giannis improved under him. We will never know if that had anything to do with Kidd or Giannis’ work ethic would have brought that improvement no matter who was coach.

I’m glad they fired him as Bud showed just how bad of a coach Kidd was.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on August 11, 2021, 04:31:39 PM
I’m glad they fired him as Bud showed just how bad of a coach Kidd was.

While I don't at all disagree, I heard from someone who is pretty close to the Bucks front office that he wasn't sure Bud would keep his job after Game 2. Amazing what winning 4 in a row will do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 04:58:35 PM
even not knowing he's a lunatic to his players, he was always a terrible coach who spat in the face of the evolution of the game. Him getting another job would be like being a surgeon, routinely and blatantly insisting on amputating the wrong leg of every patient you have, getting fired because that's clearly bad, and getting another job as a leg surgeon a year later despite everyone in the world knowing about your wrong leg amputation habit.

You'd be surprised how many bad MDs are out there and how hard it is to not only fire them, but get their license revoked or make public their mis-deeds.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 11, 2021, 05:14:33 PM
While I don't at all disagree, I heard from someone who is pretty close to the Bucks front office that he wasn't sure Bud would keep his job after Game 2. Amazing what winning 4 in a row will do.

Oh, I just meant he took a team Kidd had flirting with .500 to a 1 seed.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on August 11, 2021, 06:08:32 PM
You'd be surprised how many bad MDs are out there and how hard it is to not only fire them, but get their license revoked or make public their mis-deeds.
Dentists too apparently
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 11, 2021, 07:37:26 PM
Has their been any sort of extension rumors for Bud?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Eldon on August 11, 2021, 09:23:18 PM
Good writeup on Kidd and his "mind games"

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/21/22585355/giannis-antetokounmpo-book-excerpt-the-improbable-rise
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 11, 2021, 10:25:50 PM
Dentists too apparently

(https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The_Washington_Post/20190206/5c5ad872e4b0d3fc30b8b9c4/5c5adba7e4b078f0fafe7adf_1450955028646-chsuqu_t_1549458348585_640_360_400.gif)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on August 13, 2021, 06:46:45 AM
Does no one remember him as a coach? He was awful. Like "make Wojo look like Ike in 1944" levels of generalship. If memory serves he was right during the evolution into the efficiency-focused analytics explosion and just steadfastly channeled his inner meathead and refused under any circumstances to consider those changes.
I think you just generated some new Scoop Lexicon for the definition of a bad coach 😎
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 13, 2021, 08:35:58 AM
#43 iz back. Bucks inn 6, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 13, 2021, 08:45:02 AM
#43 iz back. Bucks inn 6, aina?

Trade him and little bro, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 13, 2021, 09:04:01 AM
Yeah, value iz neva gonna bee hyer, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 15, 2021, 01:31:48 PM
https://youtu.be/EQ1uf5fVfF8

This is still my favorite play of the season. Jrue is stupidly good defensively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Johnny B on August 15, 2021, 02:23:58 PM
https://youtu.be/EQ1uf5fVfF8

This is still my favorite play of the season. Jrue is stupidly good defensively.
lol thats it? not the booker steal? this clip aint even top 50 jrue defense plays
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 15, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Paul Reed lit it up for the Philly SL team today.  27 pts, 20 rebs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 16, 2021, 12:29:58 PM
(https://d21rhj7n383afu.cloudfront.net/washpost-production/The_Washington_Post/20190206/5c5ad872e4b0d3fc30b8b9c4/5c5adba7e4b078f0fafe7adf_1450955028646-chsuqu_t_1549458348585_640_360_400.gif)
Nice footage of Ziggy and MU82 finally agreeing on something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on August 17, 2021, 02:19:20 PM
Nets get to watch the Bucks get their rings on opening night, and we also get to host a Christmas Day game for, I believe, the first time since the 70s (unless you count last years game with no fans).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 17, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
Harden watching Giannis get his ring.  Sad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 17, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Packers and Bucks on Christmas Day. Wheeeeee!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 19, 2021, 12:54:00 PM
Apparently the new NBA 2K ratings came out and Jrue Holiday is rated one point higher than Lamelo Ball.  Lol.

WELL below guys like Jason Tatum and Trae Young.  Hell, Damontis Sabonis is rated above him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 19, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
Apparently the new NBA 2K ratings came out and Jrue Holiday is rated one point higher than Lamelo Ball.  Lol.

WELL below guys like Jason Tatum and Trae Young.  Hell, Damontis Sabonis is rated above him.

Are they rated on offense only or total game?  If it’s offense only, the ratings make sense.

If it is total game, only Tatum (of the guys you mentioned), should be ahead of him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 01:16:46 PM
Are they rated on offense only or total game?  If it’s offense only, the ratings make sense.

If it is total game, only Tatum (of the guys you mentioned), should be ahead of him.

This. I have never even seen that game, let alone played it (OK Boomer!) but if there is no defensive component I can understand those rankings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 19, 2021, 01:29:54 PM
Are they rated on offense only or total game?  If it’s offense only, the ratings make sense.

If it is total game, only Tatum (of the guys you mentioned), should be ahead of him.

It is overall rating, including defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 19, 2021, 01:46:07 PM
It is overall rating, including defense.

Then I’d only rank Tatum above him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 19, 2021, 02:37:59 PM
Apparently the new NBA 2K ratings came out and Jrue Holiday is rated one point higher than Lamelo Ball.  Lol.

WELL below guys like Jason Tatum and Trae Young.  Hell, Damontis Sabonis is rated above him.
Sabonis averaged 20.2 pts, 12 reb and 6.7 assists last year, along with a higher PER.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 19, 2021, 03:08:55 PM
Sabonis averaged 20.2 pts, 12 reb and 6.7 assists last year, along with a higher PER.

You’re in a huge minority if you think Sabonis is better than Holiday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 07:59:57 PM
You’re in a huge minority if you think Sabonis is better than Holiday.

Well, whoever does the ranking on that video game apparently is part of that huge minority.

In a vacuum, I'd probably rather have Jrue, but context matters. For example, if I already had a good PG and needed a big, I'd rather have Sabonis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 09:20:16 PM
After feuding for 3 years, KD and Draymond are finally on the same page.

They agree … that their feud was Steve Kerr’s fault.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 11:30:23 AM
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie picked his Summer League MVPs: Davion Mitchell and Cam Thomas.

I watched Mitchell twice and he very much showed why NBA types have raved about his defensive prowess. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a darn good offensive player, too.

Vecenie also gives shout-outs to two guys who spurned Marquette: Jalen Johnson and Quentin Grimes.

On Johnson: "I have never really been as high as the consensus public opinion of Johnson at any level he’s played at, including this past season at Duke. ... But Johnson looked really good at summer league, playing in a role that makes a lot more sense than what he was asked to do at Duke. Here, he was able to just get out in transition, finish plays, and make easy decisions while using his obvious gifts of size and athleticism. He’s uncannily coordinated for his size at 6-foot-9, with tremendous balance and body control."

On Grimes: "Grimes was a top-10 recruit in the country as essentially a lead guard when he was in high school. There was a point in his career when he had some of those skills in his bag. Then it all went wrong at Kansas, and he had to rebuild his game from the ground up at Houston as more of a 3-and-D wing. ... Grimes did exactly what is expected of an older rookie at summer league. He hit 40 percent of the nine 3s he took per game, and defended at the level he showed at Houston over the last two years of his collegiate career."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: reinko on August 20, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie picked his Summer League MVPs: Davion Mitchell and Cam Thomas.

I watched Mitchell twice and he very much showed why NBA types have raved about his defensive prowess. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a darn good offensive player, too.

Vecenie also gives shout-outs to two guys who spurned Marquette: Jalen Johnson and Quentin Grimes.

On Johnson: "I have never really been as high as the consensus public opinion of Johnson at any level he’s played at, including this past season at Duke. ... But Johnson looked really good at summer league, playing in a role that makes a lot more sense than what he was asked to do at Duke. Here, he was able to just get out in transition, finish plays, and make easy decisions while using his obvious gifts of size and athleticism. He’s uncannily coordinated for his size at 6-foot-9, with tremendous balance and body control."

On Grimes: "Grimes was a top-10 recruit in the country as essentially a lead guard when he was in high school. There was a point in his career when he had some of those skills in his bag. Then it all went wrong at Kansas, and he had to rebuild his game from the ground up at Houston as more of a 3-and-D wing. ... Grimes did exactly what is expected of an older rookie at summer league. He hit 40 percent of the nine 3s he took per game, and defended at the level he showed at Houston over the last two years of his collegiate career."

Davion Mitchell might have one of my favorite nicknames because of his defensive prowess:  Off Night
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 02:25:32 PM
Davion Mitchell might have one of my favorite nicknames because of his defensive prowess:  Off Night

Yeah, the game they played the Hornets, the analyst was Greg Anthony, and he kept saying, "Off Night is killin' Bouknight!"
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on August 20, 2021, 04:28:56 PM
Giannis purchased a minority stake in the Brew Crew. Nice addition to a portfolio that already includes the Phoenix Suns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on August 20, 2021, 05:28:53 PM
The Athletic's Sam Vecenie picked his Summer League MVPs: Davion Mitchell and Cam Thomas.

I watched Mitchell twice and he very much showed why NBA types have raved about his defensive prowess. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a darn good offensive player, too.

Vecenie also gives shout-outs to two guys who spurned Marquette: Jalen Johnson and Quentin Grimes.

On Johnson: "I have never really been as high as the consensus public opinion of Johnson at any level he’s played at, including this past season at Duke. ... But Johnson looked really good at summer league, playing in a role that makes a lot more sense than what he was asked to do at Duke. Here, he was able to just get out in transition, finish plays, and make easy decisions while using his obvious gifts of size and athleticism. He’s uncannily coordinated for his size at 6-foot-9, with tremendous balance and body control."

On Grimes: "Grimes was a top-10 recruit in the country as essentially a lead guard when he was in high school. There was a point in his career when he had some of those skills in his bag. Then it all went wrong at Kansas, and he had to rebuild his game from the ground up at Houston as more of a 3-and-D wing. ... Grimes did exactly what is expected of an older rookie at summer league. He hit 40 percent of the nine 3s he took per game, and defended at the level he showed at Houston over the last two years of his collegiate career."

What that tells me is he would have been a colossal flop under Wojo, doing literally whatever he wanted at an extremely inefficient level, and transferred to Houston after freshman year anyway. Sounds like Sampson's program was exactly what he needed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 20, 2021, 06:45:30 PM
Giannis purchased a minority stake in the Brew Crew. Nice addition to a portfolio that already includes the Phoenix Suns.

Literally, the closet thing to a money tree that exists. Bill Mahre has talked about the windfall profits he received when Cohen bought the Mets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 20, 2021, 06:48:25 PM
Well, whoever does the ranking on that video game apparently is part of that huge minority.

In a vacuum, I'd probably rather have Jrue, but context matters. For example, if I already had a good PG and needed a big, I'd rather have Sabonis.
.

 Just a guess, but if you looked up a dozen sites for top 25 players in the NBA today, Jrue’s name would be on most. I doubt that Sabonis would be on any.

BTW, I think Sabonis is a very good player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 20, 2021, 07:16:18 PM
Giannis purchased a minority stake in the Brew Crew. Nice addition to a portfolio that already includes the Phoenix Suns.

Not to mention claiming Ben Simmons as a dependant on his taxes.

It's a little disappointing for him to go the LeBron route and try to buy his way to another championship.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 07:22:48 PM
.

 Just a guess, but if you looked up a dozen sites for top 25 players in the NBA today, Jrue’s name would be on most. I doubt that Sabonis would be on any.

BTW, I think Sabonis is a very good player.

OK.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 20, 2021, 11:48:35 PM
What that tells me is he would have been a colossal flop under Wojo, doing literally whatever he wanted at an extremely inefficient level, and transferred to Houston after freshman year anyway. Sounds like Sampson's program was exactly what he needed.

Hold on. Are you trying to say that Sampson runs some sort of disciplined program???  Lolololol. Ok🙄
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 21, 2021, 06:48:22 AM
You’re in a huge minority if you think Sabonis is better than Holiday.
What's a huge minority? Is that almost a small majority?

It's difficult to find many Top 25 or Top 50 lists that have been compiled after the season. Here's one though
https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/ (https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/) Jrue 43-Sabonis 31. And BTW I like Jrue alot, and he is a perfect fit for the Bucks. In a vacuum though, I would take Sabonis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2021, 08:21:46 AM
What's a huge minority? Is that almost a small majority?

It's difficult to find many Top 25 or Top 50 lists that have been compiled after the season. Here's one though
https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/ (https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/) Jrue 43-Sabonis 31. And BTW I like Jrue alot, and he is a perfect fit for the Bucks. In a vacuum though, I would take Sabonis.

As I said, it would depend on my needs. If I already had a top-10 PG but needed a big, I'd take Sabonis in a heartbeat. If I needed an upgrade at PG, a position that's so freakin' important (as definitely was the case for the Bucks), I'd take Holiday.

These kinds of rankings are all just conversation starters, anyway. And here we are -- conversing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on August 21, 2021, 08:34:22 AM
What's a huge minority? Is that almost a small majority?

It's difficult to find many Top 25 or Top 50 lists that have been compiled after the season. Here's one though
https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/ (https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/) Jrue 43-Sabonis 31. And BTW I like Jrue alot, and he is a perfect fit for the Bucks. In a vacuum though, I would take Sabonis.

I have questions about this list. Holiday at 43 and Malcolm Brogdon at 38? Holiday is much more impactful and the ring proves it, since the Bucks couldn't win one with Brogdan.

But an even bigger head scratcher is Julius Randle at 22 and Anthony Davis at 23.  Imagine the Knicks proposing a Randle for Davis trade. The Lakers turn that down so fast it'll make the Knicks heads spin.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 21, 2021, 08:53:52 AM
As I said, it would depend on my needs. If I already had a top-10 PG but needed a big, I'd take Sabonis in a heartbeat. If I needed an upgrade at PG, a position that's so freakin' important (as definitely was the case for the Bucks), I'd take Holiday.

These kinds of rankings are all just conversation starters, anyway. And here we are -- conversing.
Agreed. I just feel that Jockey's belief that it's a no brainer that Holliday is better is not true. There's argument to be had that Sabonis has the better stats. I think bias in terms of his favorite team comes into play.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on August 21, 2021, 10:31:05 AM
Holiday's overall impact has now been solidified.  The truth is offensively he was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs.  Many games he was woefully bad shooting the ball.  However, what he did in Game 5 of the Finals is the exact reason the Bucks got him.  That was about as complete a performance as you'll ever see. 

Very few players are capable of dominating a game in that fashion under those stakes.  Because playoff basketball allows more physicality on the perimeter, Holiday's worth can't really be measured in stats. He was the perfect addition to the Bucks and I said it 5 mins after the trade occurred.  So while he's not automatically "better" than some of these aforementioned players he's definitely more valuable imo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 21, 2021, 11:21:26 AM
Agreed. I just feel that Jockey's belief that it's a no brainer that Holliday is better is not true. There's argument to be had that Sabonis has the better stats. I think bias in terms of his favorite team comes into play.

Of course Sabonis has better stats. Look at the team he plays for. But they are just Kevin Love stats. Mostly meaningless.

But I would love Sabonis on the Bucks. He would probably only be a 14/8 guy, but as I said earlier, I think he is a very good player and he has shown some high level NBA skills.

But back to the original argument, Jrue is a better player. That is not an insult to Sabonis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on August 21, 2021, 11:50:20 AM
I thought The Athletic's tiers were pretty smart, if not overly scientific. Passed the eye test for me at least in where it placed Jrue in the 3rd fiddle tier.

Weighing in on the argument at hand, Sabonis is a fine player and - on the right squad - could unlock a team whose star players don't quite fit because of his facilitation.

But on the Bucks and on most other teams, Jrue is or would be the superior player.

https://theathletic.com/2762817/2021/08/13/nba-player-tiers-lebron-james-kevin-durant-giannis-antetokounmpo-rank-atop-tier-1-as-leagues-very-best/ (https://theathletic.com/2762817/2021/08/13/nba-player-tiers-lebron-james-kevin-durant-giannis-antetokounmpo-rank-atop-tier-1-as-leagues-very-best/)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on August 22, 2021, 08:03:19 AM
Hold on. Are you trying to say that Sampson runs some sort of disciplined program???  Lolololol. Ok🙄

??? They're incredibly tough & disciplined on defense and run a more systematic offense. Confused what you're confused about
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2021, 08:20:59 AM
Holiday's overall impact has now been solidified.  The truth is offensively he was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs.  Many games he was woefully bad shooting the ball.  However, what he did in Game 5 of the Finals is the exact reason the Bucks got him.  That was about as complete a performance as you'll ever see. 

Very few players are capable of dominating a game in that fashion under those stakes.  Because playoff basketball allows more physicality on the perimeter, Holiday's worth can't really be measured in stats. He was the perfect addition to the Bucks and I said it 5 mins after the trade occurred.  So while he's not automatically "better" than some of these aforementioned players he's definitely more valuable imo.

Yes, Holiday turned out to be the perfect addition to the Bucks, exactly what they needed to get over the hump.

Sabonis would have been lovely to have on the team, but unnecessary, and nowhere near as valuable as a very good PG.

Other teams -- ones with top-level PGs -- would no doubt rather have Sabonis, though. Which is why these kinds of conversations are little more than offseason filler.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 22, 2021, 08:45:32 AM
Just see what Jrue did for the Olympic team. They had plenty of guards and needed bigs badly, but I have very little doubt Pop, Jay, the rest of the staff, and the players would all rather have had Jrue than Sabonis. Jrue was the second most important player on the team, even though they had Booker, Lillard, LeVine, Middleton, Tatum, etc.

Guy got off the plane and the same day was playing 30 minutes in their first game. Second in minutes played on the team despite having just played through the NBA Finals. Third in points, first in assists, third in rebounds, first in steals, fourth in blocks.

Continues to be maybe the most underrated player in the NBA, apparently even by a fan base based largely out of the city he just won an NBA title in. Listen to Draymond’s comments after the Olympics. Or to KD’s on Reddick’s podcast. I think Lillard said similar things, maybe on Reddick’s podcast. The guys who play the game all say nobody understands how good Jrue is. I think they’d laugh if the question of who is better, Jrue or Sabonis was posed to them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 22, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
I guarantee Pop and his staff would have loved to have Sabonis. His game is tailor made for the Olympics.  Unfortunately, he played for Team Lithuania. He dud win the All Star Skills competition as well :).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on August 22, 2021, 10:55:54 AM
I guarantee Pop and his staff would have loved to have Sabonis. His game is tailor made for the Olympics.  Unfortunately, he played for Team Lithuania. He dud win the All Star Skills competition as well :).

I don’t thing even one person has argued that Sabonis is not a good player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on August 22, 2021, 11:59:56 AM
I don’t thing even one person has argued that Sabonis is not a good player.
Where did I say that? My point is that Jrue>Sabonis is not a slam dunk. I would argue that lack of bigs was almost Team USA's downfall, and Pop would have rather had Sabonis. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: reinko on August 22, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
This argument is hilarious, mainly because it’s based on a bunch nerds assigning ratings in a video game, then a bunch of dorks on a message board (and I too call myself a dork on a message board).

It’s pretty easy to see Jrue being more valuable on a team like the Bucks (and many others), but Sabonis also being more valuable on teams that are more wing heavy, say the Celtics.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 22, 2021, 04:58:04 PM
DJ Wilson is an 84 in 2K. Jrue is an 85…

Mikael Bridges an 86.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: reinko on August 22, 2021, 05:11:15 PM
DJ Wilson is an 84 in 2K. Jrue is an 85…

Mikael Bridges an 86.

This is like SuperBad, where they say; calm down Greg it’s soccer, it’s soccer. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on August 24, 2021, 08:17:38 PM
Bud extended by 3 years. Made me eat a lot of crow this past year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 24, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Bud extended by 3 years. Made me eat a lot of crow this past year.

This is Scoop and you’re never wrong
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on August 25, 2021, 10:40:16 AM
David Aldridge in The Athletic ranked every team's offseason moves (including drafts, trades and FA signings), and had the Bulls at #4:

Chicago has never, during the long history of the franchise, been able or much interested in getting significant free agents. Some Bulls regimes have put forth the effort and gotten close (Dwyane Wade in 2010); the more recent vintages haven’t tried much at all. But the Artūras Karnišovas-Marc Eversley front office targeted and hit on Ball, who should fit in nicely. It’s hard to see what the issue was with Ball in New Orleans; he progressed across most categories in his two seasons there (improving from a ghastly 57 percent from the line in 2019-20 to 78 percent last season, and from a .511 effective field goal percentage to .537). My analytics friends blanched at the high price tag, in salary and picks, Chicago gave up for the 32-year-old DeRozan, and it was a lot. But how long are Bulls ticket holders supposed to wait for a better product on the floor? Chicago’s new players should impact collectively: Zach LaVine won’t have to always guard the opposition’s top wings down the stretch (Caruso); he won’t have to play make as well as score (Ball) and he won’t have opposing defenses tilting his way all the time (DeRozan). Caruso could have happily spent the bulk of his career attached to a supernova — in his case, LeBron — at very good money. But he chose Chicago. Dosunmu could step in if the Bulls decide to move White, either alone or in tandem with former fellow first-rounder Lauri Markkanen, before the start of camp. There’s no one “great” thing the Bulls did this offseason. But there was a lot of good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on September 10, 2021, 04:26:33 PM
This Chris Webber story is rather bizarre. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on September 15, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
https://www.nba.com/bucks/news/milwaukee-bucks-name-lisa-byington-television-play-play-announcer

Honestly, never heard of her.  Some BIG shoes to fill though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on September 15, 2021, 07:59:20 PM
https://www.nba.com/bucks/news/milwaukee-bucks-name-lisa-byington-television-play-play-announcer

Honestly, never heard of her.  Some BIG shoes to fill though.

Me either, but she's well credentialed, especially for a small market regional network. But broadcasting for a championship team means her voice will get lots of play.

Does NBATV have its own crew or does it tap into regional broadcasts?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on September 15, 2021, 08:11:29 PM
She's done a few BEast games.  I really haven't heard enough of her to make a judgement one way or the other.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on September 15, 2021, 08:55:39 PM
Lisa has been on BTN for years now! Football, men's and women's basketball. Last couple of year's has done play by play for football on BTN. Does some men's and women's Big East games as well on FS1.

This past year she was one of the 10 teams for CBS/Turner coverage of the NCAA Tournament doing play by play. Some famous games Santa Barbara vs. Creighton,  Abilene Christian vs. Texas and Oral Roberts vs. Florida, Lisa was the boardcaster on that most did watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on September 16, 2021, 06:50:23 AM
IIRC, she did the Marquette-Murray State NCAA tournament game in 2019.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on September 16, 2021, 08:20:04 AM
IIRC, she did the Marquette-Murray State NCAA tournament game in 2019.
It was Carter Blackburn and Debbie Antonelli.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on September 16, 2021, 10:57:22 AM
She's done a few BEast games.  I really haven't heard enough of her to make a judgement one way or the other.
I thought she did a solid job on those Big East games. Was very professional .
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on September 16, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
Hope she duzant pull a Rachel Nichols, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on September 16, 2021, 06:56:58 PM
Hope she duzant pull a Rachel Nichols, aina?
I saw Rachel Nichols about 12 years ago at a Super Bowl party , spent a little time talking to her, she was in sporting form then, Her tires have a lot of wear on the tread these days…
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on September 17, 2021, 10:07:25 AM
It was Carter Blackburn and Debbie Antonelli.

You're correct. I was thinking of MU-Purdue in 2019.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on September 23, 2021, 01:15:19 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32249592/nbarank-2021-ranking-best-players-2021-22-25-6

Came up earlier, but ESPN has Jrue as the 22nd best player.  Other names that have been mentioned in this thread; Khris at 19, Trey Young at 17, Booker 15, Tatum 14, Sabonis came in at 40 fwiw.  I could probably find a few nits to pick, and the top 5 hasn't come out yet, where you fill always be able to find some heated debates, but I think this list is pretty good for the most part.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on September 23, 2021, 06:06:12 PM
Andrew Wiggins says he’ll only get vaccinated if he’s forced to. San Francisco requires all participants and spectators at indoor events to be vaccinated.

So either that will be enough to “force” him to get vaccinated… or he will skip all of the Warriors’ home games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 23, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Andrew Wiggins says he’ll only get vaccinated if he’s forced to. San Francisco requires all participants and spectators at indoor events to be vaccinated.

So either that will be enough to “force” him to get vaccinated… or he will skip all of the Warriors’ home games.

Me thinks Jimmy Butler was right about Wiggles.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on September 28, 2021, 07:53:21 AM
The NBA is planning to crack down on "foul hunting" -- a shooter getting a defender up in the air and then moving forward into the defender's downward path to draw a foul.

In other words, basically Rowsey's "The Thing."

It's long overdue, and I hope they really enforce it rather than give it a go during the exhibition season and then forget about it once the season starts.

As a Marquette fan, I loved it when Rowsey would get 4-point plays or 3 FTs. At the same time, I also felt it was unfair that defenders were penalized for going straight up and down on shot fakes.

It wasn't Rowsey's "fault." All he was doing was taking advantage of the refs giving him the calls. Same with all the NBA players. Now, there is a rule against it in the NBA. Those who do "The Thing" not only will not get the call, they will be called for a foul themselves -- the same way a shooter who kicks out his leg is supposed to be called for an offensive foul.

If the NBA is successful at enforcing it, expect it to be enforced in college and high school ball soon, too. It's common sense.

 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 04, 2021, 06:48:42 PM
Does anyone know if Kyrie Irving is refusing to get vaccinated because he had COVID before?  I can't imagine he'll just pay close to $500K per home game missed.    But it will help the Buck repeat
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 04, 2021, 07:12:29 PM
Does anyone know if Kyrie Irving is refusing to get vaccinated because he had COVID before?  I can't imagine he'll just pay close to $500K per home game missed.    But it will help the Buck repeat

It doesn't matter if he had COVID before.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 04, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
The NBA is planning to crack down on "foul hunting" -- a shooter getting a defender up in the air and then moving forward into the defender's downward path to draw a foul.

In other words, basically Rowsey's "The Thing."

It's long overdue, and I hope they really enforce it rather than give it a go during the exhibition season and then forget about it once the season starts.

As a Marquette fan, I loved it when Rowsey would get 4-point plays or 3 FTs. At the same time, I also felt it was unfair that defenders were penalized for going straight up and down on shot fakes.

It wasn't Rowsey's "fault." All he was doing was taking advantage of the refs giving him the calls. Same with all the NBA players. Now, there is a rule against it in the NBA. Those who do "The Thing" not only will not get the call, they will be called for a foul themselves -- the same way a shooter who kicks out his leg is supposed to be called for an offensive foul.

If the NBA is successful at enforcing it, expect it to be enforced in college and high school ball soon, too. It's common sense.

Harden may be out of the league by mid-season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 04, 2021, 07:43:23 PM
It doesn't matter if he had COVID before.

That's not what he asked though.  He's not saying "he shouldn't have to" if that was the case, just wondering if he gave a reason.

Im getting more and more the vibe of Kyrie pulling a Barry Sanders and walking away as a star in his prime.  He's made $160MM in salary, not including another $35MM this year, plus $15MM+ a year the last few years from Nike cause his shoes are insanely popular.  He's an odd duck and I can see him just walking away to go pursue a bunch of other stuff.  Always struck me as someone who is a prodigy but never LOVED basketball like some of the greats.

Also, I like Kyrie a lot and have always thought he was misunderstood but him being an anti-vaxxer is one of the least surprising things ever.  He'd basically be in the first 5 NBA players named if you asked who would be vax holdouts in the league before it began.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 04, 2021, 08:01:18 PM
That's not what he asked though.  He's not saying "he shouldn't have to" if that was the case, just wondering if he gave a reason.

Im getting more and more the vibe of Kyrie pulling a Barry Sanders and walking away as a star in his prime.  He's made $160MM in salary, not including another $35MM this year, plus $15MM+ a year the last few years from Nike cause his shoes are insanely popular.  He's an odd duck and I can see him just walking away to go pursue a bunch of other stuff.  Always struck me as someone who is a prodigy but never LOVED basketball like some of the greats.

Also, I like Kyrie a lot and have always thought he was misunderstood but him being an anti-vaxxer is one of the least surprising things ever.  He'd basically be in the first 5 NBA players named if you asked who would be vax holdouts in the league before it began.

Let me be clear. I don’t care what his reasons are.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 04, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
Let me be clear. I don’t care what his reasons are.

You've made that clear.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 04, 2021, 08:15:31 PM
Would you want Simmons and his contract if you were an NBA GM?  I wonder how he would do with Curry and Thompson? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on October 04, 2021, 10:22:03 PM
That's not what he asked though.  He's not saying "he shouldn't have to" if that was the case, just wondering if he gave a reason.

Im getting more and more the vibe of Kyrie pulling a Barry Sanders and walking away as a star in his prime.  He's made $160MM in salary, not including another $35MM this year, plus $15MM+ a year the last few years from Nike cause his shoes are insanely popular.  He's an odd duck and I can see him just walking away to go pursue a bunch of other stuff.  Always struck me as someone who is a prodigy but never LOVED basketball like some of the greats.

Also, I like Kyrie a lot and have always thought he was misunderstood but him being an anti-vaxxer is one of the least surprising things ever.  He'd basically be in the first 5 NBA players named if you asked who would be vax holdouts in the league before it began.

I would have bet a russian roullete round on Kyrie being an antivaxxer. Dude's a flat earther. (sure sure he says he was just joking, but come on now).

The #1 guy for being this flavor of idiot was Kyrie. The number 2 guy? Also Kyrie.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 04, 2021, 11:22:10 PM
Im getting more and more the vibe of Kyrie pulling a Barry Sanders and walking away as a star in his prime.

See ya!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 04, 2021, 11:51:18 PM
Kyrie has over 70 mill left on his contract.  He might walk away if he gets a big chunk of that but I assume they won't have to pay him.  He's not bolting if he's gonna lose 70m.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 05, 2021, 05:57:19 AM
Kyrie has over 70 mill left on his contract.  He might walk away if he gets a big chunk of that but I assume they won't have to pay him.  He's not bolting if he's gonna lose 70m.

Eh, I’m wouldn’t be so sure of that
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 05, 2021, 10:35:36 AM
That's not what he asked though.  He's not saying "he shouldn't have to" if that was the case, just wondering if he gave a reason.

Im getting more and more the vibe of Kyrie pulling a Barry Sanders and walking away as a star in his prime.  He's made $160MM in salary, not including another $35MM this year, plus $15MM+ a year the last few years from Nike cause his shoes are insanely popular.  He's an odd duck and I can see him just walking away to go pursue a bunch of other stuff.  Always struck me as someone who is a prodigy but never LOVED basketball like some of the greats.

Also, I like Kyrie a lot and have always thought he was misunderstood but him being an anti-vaxxer is one of the least surprising things ever.  He'd basically be in the first 5 NBA players named if you asked who would be vax holdouts in the league before it began.

This is all very surprising. Kyrie was always a team first guy. ;D
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 05, 2021, 10:56:49 AM
Eh, I’m wouldn’t be so sure of that

Yea, like I laid out, its not crazy to estimate that between salary and off the court earnings, Kyrie has made $225-250MM.  Sure the extra $70MM is awesome, but he's got MORE than enough to do whatever he wants to do outside of basketball.  He's kooky but he's a pretty intelligent dude otherwise and he's spread some money wisely outside of basketball.  If he's done with basketball mentally, he's got the resources and roadmap to do whatever, with or without the $70MM.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 05, 2021, 10:59:27 AM
Does anyone know if Kyrie Irving is refusing to get vaccinated because he had COVID before?  I can't imagine he'll just pay close to $500K per home game missed.    But it will help the Buck repeat

He's a conspiracy theorist. Full stop.

I've known Kyrie since his Montclair Kimberly days. Have talked with him more than a handful of times. Worked with one of his best friends from high school for just over five years. His personality suggests he's made his point, kept people guessing, and will get the vaccine before year's end.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 05, 2021, 10:17:10 PM
He's a conspiracy theorist. Full stop.

I've known Kyrie since his Montclair Kimberly days. Have talked with him more than a handful of times. Worked with one of his best friends from high school for just over five years. His personality suggests he's made his point, kept people guessing, and will get the vaccine before year's end.

This seems like a reasonable conclusion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on October 05, 2021, 10:28:59 PM
All preseason games should be 3 quarters.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 06, 2021, 07:41:45 AM
He's a conspiracy theorist. Full stop.

I've known Kyrie since his Montclair Kimberly days. Have talked with him more than a handful of times. Worked with one of his best friends from high school for just over five years. His personality suggests he's made his point, kept people guessing, and will get the vaccine before year's end.


And what point is that?

If he is going to end up getting the vaccine, and is just waiting to make some "point," he is being selfish and a bad teammate. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on October 07, 2021, 10:40:57 AM
Bunch of former NBA players indicted in fraud scheme.
Terrence Williams, Alan Anderson, Tony Allen, Desiree Allen, Shannon Brown, William Bynum, Ronald Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Christopher Douglas-Roberts, Melvin Ely, Jamario Moon, Darius Miles, Milton Palacio, Ruben Patterson, Eddie Robinson, Gregory Smith, Sebastian Telfair, Charles Watson Jr., Antoine Wright, and Anthony Wroten.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32354861/former-nba-players-charged-4m-health-care-fraud-scheme
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 07, 2021, 10:58:05 AM
Bunch of former NBA players indicted in fraud scheme.
Terrence Williams, Alan Anderson, Tony Allen, Desiree Allen, Shannon Brown, William Bynum, Ronald Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Christopher Douglas-Roberts, Melvin Ely, Jamario Moon, Darius Miles, Milton Palacio, Ruben Patterson, Eddie Robinson, Gregory Smith, Sebastian Telfair, Charles Watson Jr., Antoine Wright, and Anthony Wroten.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32354861/former-nba-players-charged-4m-health-care-fraud-scheme

At least this knocks Lazar from the top spot of the  biggest former NBA player fraud case of the last few weeks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on October 07, 2021, 12:31:21 PM
Bunch of former NBA players indicted in fraud scheme.
Terrence Williams, Alan Anderson, Tony Allen, Desiree Allen, Shannon Brown, William Bynum, Ronald Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Christopher Douglas-Roberts, Melvin Ely, Jamario Moon, Darius Miles, Milton Palacio, Ruben Patterson, Eddie Robinson, Gregory Smith, Sebastian Telfair, Charles Watson Jr., Antoine Wright, and Anthony Wroten.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32354861/former-nba-players-charged-4m-health-care-fraud-scheme
Today in Remember Some Guys
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 07, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
I expect the Bucks to repeat if Kyrie doesn't play.  I think they will be better than last season. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on October 08, 2021, 08:49:44 AM
I expect the Bucks to repeat if Kyrie doesn't play.  I think they will be better than last season.

Their regular season record might not be as good, but I agree. With the short offseason they'll probably start slow as guys heal up and get their legs back. They got better in the spots they needed to.

Brooklyn is still the favorite in my eyes, Kyrie or not. But the Bucks are right there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 08, 2021, 09:07:06 AM
IDK...

I am getting an '04 Pistons, '11 Mavs vibe about last year's team.  Not diminishing the championship in the least, but the Bucks got hot at the right time, remained relatively healthy and had some good breaks when it came to top seeds losing early.  Maybe I am just being cautious, but I don't know how sustainable this model is.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on October 08, 2021, 09:09:49 AM
2005 Pistons lost the In game 7 to San Antonio.   There are worse 'year after' fates.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 08, 2021, 09:10:41 AM
2005 Pistons lost the In game 7 to San Antonio.   There are worse 'year after' fates.


Good point.  I had forgotten about that. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 08, 2021, 09:16:09 AM
I think the Nets are a tier above the Bucks, and the Bucks are two tiers above anyone else (Clippers could maybe join their tier if Kawhi were to come back healthy and the player he was a year ago).  And I think winning the championship will give them more confidence going forward.  I expect Jrue to be much better offensively, as a lot of times it takes a guy who is the 2nd-4th best player a year to settle into his roll.  And I think Grayson Allen is a massively underrated addition.  Plus Donte will be back at some point.

All that said, I think the Bucks lose whenever they run into the Nets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on October 08, 2021, 09:18:22 AM
IDK...

I am getting an '04 Pistons, '11 Mavs vibe about last year's team.  Not diminishing the championship in the least, but the Bucks got hot at the right time, remained relatively healthy and had some good breaks when it came to top seeds losing early.  Maybe I am just being cautious, but I don't know how sustainable this model is.

Short of getting and sustaining a Jordan-esque Repeat Threepeat series of teams, don't most championships require some amount of getting hot at the right time, remaining healthy, and having some good matchup breaks? Not to say that the Bucks didn't benefit from those last year, but I'm just not sure how valuable it is as predictive indicator to say "well they had some lucky breaks on the road to the title, and they can't count on those breaks again this year."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 08, 2021, 09:19:50 AM
Short of getting and sustaining a Jordan-esque Repeat Threepeat series of teams, don't most championships require some amount of getting hot at the right time, remaining healthy, and having some good matchup breaks? Not to say that the Bucks didn't benefit from those last year, but I'm just not sure how valuable it is as predictive indicator to say "well they had some lucky breaks on the road to the title, and they can't count on those breaks again this year."

The X factor is Giannis.  He’s a killer now
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 08, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
The X factor is Giannis.  He’s a killer now

This.  And if the 6-10 foot push shot/turnaround that he hit consistently from mid-Nets series on in the Playoffs is legit, look out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on October 08, 2021, 09:37:48 AM
This.  And if the 6-10 foot push shot/turnaround that he hit consistently from mid-Nets series on in the Playoffs is legit, look out.

+1 on the impact of Giannis extending his arsenal by even those couple feet.  That fringe paint/short midrange game is the best thing that could happen to keep him healthy.

citations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWXCu1Dv8Mo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWXCu1Dv8Mo)
Hakeem played between 70-82 games every season from 91-97 (age 29-34)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on October 08, 2021, 10:17:19 AM
Short of getting and sustaining a Jordan-esque Repeat Threepeat series of teams, don't most championships require some amount of getting hot at the right time, remaining healthy, and having some good matchup breaks? Not to say that the Bucks didn't benefit from those last year, but I'm just not sure how valuable it is as predictive indicator to say "well they had some lucky breaks on the road to the title, and they can't count on those breaks again this year."

Totally agree. The Bucks become the mid 90s Rockets rather than the Jordan Bulls? Okay. I'm great with that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 08, 2021, 10:28:52 AM
I think Giannis will be more comfortable with the push shot and scoring from the perimeter in general.  And while I think he can get to 70-75% from the line the more important stat is getting to the line.  The fact that he took 19 free throws, in a Finals close out game, would worry me if I was the rest of the league.  He has that killer mentality which you just can't teach. 

Now the Nets are more talented, especially with Kyrie.  That said I expect Holiday to be much more comfortable offensively and their new additions to be a lot better than people think.  They essentially traded Tucker, Forbes, and Teague for DDV, Allen, Hood, and Ojeyle.  That's a win for the Bucks.  And Hood may be more productive than people expect as an instant offense guy off the bench.  Their overall roster is much stronger and their 2 and 3 compliment Giannis quite well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 08, 2021, 10:47:56 AM
I think Giannis will be more comfortable with the push shot and scoring from the perimeter in general.  And while I think he can get to 70-75% from the line the more important stat is getting to the line.  The fact that he took 19 free throws, in a Finals close out game, would worry me if I was the rest of the league.  He has that killer mentality which you just can't teach. 

Now the Nets are more talented, especially with Kyrie.  That said I expect Holiday to be much more comfortable offensively and their new additions to be a lot better than people think.  They essentially traded Tucker, Forbes, and Teague for DDV, Allen, Hood, and Ojeyle.  That's a win for the Bucks.  And Hood may be more productive than people expect as an instant offense guy off the bench.  Their overall roster is much stronger and their 2 and 3 compliment Giannis quite well.


This may turn out to be a bad prediction, but I think by the end of the year, Jordan Nwora is going to be getting more minutes than both Semi and Hood.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 08, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

This may turn out to be a bad prediction, but I think by the end of the year, Jordan Nwora is going to be getting more minutes than both Semi and Hood.

Well if 1 of the 3 are productive for 15 mins on the floor that's a huge plus for the Bucks. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on October 08, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
This may turn out to be a bad prediction, but I think by the end of the year, Jordan Nwora is going to be getting more minutes than both Semi and Hood.

He's really gonna have to improve defensively to win those minutes. No question he can fill it up, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 10, 2021, 12:37:21 AM
As chatter intensifies about the Nets trading Kyrie if he doesn't get vaccinated, and thinking of how Wiggins acquiesced...this tweet had me CACKLING

https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1446840954393083908?s=20
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 11, 2021, 07:18:43 PM
"The Sixers would welcome Ben Simmons returning".  Translation:  we can't get close to what we want if we trade the guy right now.  Philly fan will probably not be very "welcoming " is my bold prediction.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on October 12, 2021, 10:13:10 AM
Nets say no to a part-time Kyrie arrangement. What a mess.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2021, 10:39:10 AM
Nets say no to a part-time Kyrie arrangement. What a mess.

Nets front office must be shocked to learn that Kyrie Irving is still Kyrie Irving.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on October 12, 2021, 10:42:53 AM
Nets say no to a part-time Kyrie arrangement. What a mess.

If the Nets hamstring themselves because Kyrie's a moron, does the Bucks upcoming repeat championship need an asterisk like everyone wanted to give last years's given the Nets' injuries in the playoffs?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on October 12, 2021, 10:52:17 AM
If the Nets hamstring themselves because Kyrie's a moron, does the Bucks upcoming repeat championship need an asterisk like everyone wanted to give last years's given the Nets' injuries in the playoffs?
Winning Championships  are always earned. So no asterisk needed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 12, 2021, 11:07:03 AM
Sounds like no one will be surprised if Kyrie quits over this and gives up 70 million?  I find that hard to believe.... but then again doesn't he believe dinosaurs didn't exist?  If he's done the Bucks are now the favorites to repeat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 12, 2021, 03:15:16 PM
Shocking that Ben Simmons is too soft to hold out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 12, 2021, 04:01:51 PM
Sounds like no one will be surprised if Kyrie quits over this and gives up 70 million?  I find that hard to believe.... but then again doesn't he believe dinosaurs didn't exist?  If he's done the Bucks are now the favorites to repeat.

No. They fell off the end of the earth.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on October 12, 2021, 04:25:41 PM
With cavemen riding them
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2021, 06:07:19 PM
Sounds like no one will be surprised if Kyrie quits over this and gives up 70 million?  I find that hard to believe.... but then again doesn't he believe dinosaurs didn't exist?  If he's done the Bucks are now the favorites to repeat.

Why? He's already earned enough to be considered generational wealth. An extra $70M isn't going to let him do much of anything he can't already do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2021, 06:31:25 PM
Nah, itz an xtra mil. four each of hiz 70 grandkids, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 12, 2021, 07:16:37 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2021, 08:18:59 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?

He’s such an idiot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 12, 2021, 08:23:08 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?

Probably.  And I don't care how much money he has, 70m is 70m.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2021, 08:31:15 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?

Kyrie had access to the vaccine long before mandates were a thing.
This is poorly done spin by his reps.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2021, 10:55:52 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?

He's always been a man of the people.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Nah, itz an xtra mil. four each of hiz 70 grandkids, aina?

Ah, you're expecting his two children to have 35 children each?

I see you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 13, 2021, 06:25:32 AM
Watt iz dis, Romper Room, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 13, 2021, 07:18:01 PM
He's always been a man of the people.

i believe the proper association is "person" of the people today
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 14, 2021, 06:21:38 AM
i believe the proper association is "person" of the people today

Proving once again that you somehow don't get this.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 14, 2021, 07:42:14 PM
So Kyrie claims he's not actually anti-vaccine, he's just holding off on the vaccine cause he's upset that people are losing their jobs in NYC over the vaccine mandate.  Is this all just elaborate performance art before getting vaccinated as the season begins?


Stephon Marburg compared Kyrie to Muhammad Ali for his courageous stand.

The same Ali that did a PSA for vaccines back in the late 70s.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 18, 2021, 04:15:11 PM
Grayson deal is going to be a steal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on October 19, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
Milwaukee Bucks have named Ben Brust as the team’s radio analyst for home games on WTMJ Radio and the statewide BMO Bucks Radio Network.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 19, 2021, 08:15:42 PM
Milwaukee Bucks have named Ben Brust as the team’s radio analyst for home games on WTMJ Radio and the statewide BMO Bucks Radio Network.

Wow. That’s quite a step down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 19, 2021, 08:19:30 PM
Milwaukee Bucks have named Ben Brust as the team’s radio analyst for home games on WTMJ Radio and the statewide BMO Bucks Radio Network.

WTF?! Id rather listen to Freeway
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on October 19, 2021, 08:53:08 PM
Milwaukee Bucks have named Ben Brust as the team’s radio analyst for home games on WTMJ Radio and the statewide BMO Bucks Radio Network.

Pretty sure he's leaned into his job as just Wisconsin Sports Radio Dude, kinda like a basketball version with a wildly less successful sporting career of Tausch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on October 19, 2021, 08:54:22 PM
Bucks giving the Nets a Heinie Whoopin
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 19, 2021, 09:06:04 PM
Pretty sure he's leaned into his job as just Wisconsin Sports Radio Dude, kinda like a basketball version with a wildly less successful sporting career of Tausch.

They already have Brian Butch doing that on 97.3, and at least he is from Wisconsin.  But equally as horrible
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on October 19, 2021, 09:55:27 PM
Kevin Durant is going to personally inject Kyrie while he sleeps
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 19, 2021, 10:23:02 PM
Kevin Durant is going to personally inject Kyrie while he sleeps

No kidding. There’s a pretty steep drop off after KD/Harden on the Nets. With nobody at all to stop anything in the lane, they need Kyrie to be able to outscore everyone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2021, 10:23:57 PM
Kevin Durant is going to personally inject Kyrie while he sleeps

Kyrie Who?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2021, 11:01:23 PM
Juan looks great in the Warriors’ season opener vs the Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 19, 2021, 11:01:45 PM
Milwaukee Bucks have named Ben Brust as the team’s radio analyst for home games on WTMJ Radio and the statewide BMO Bucks Radio Network.

Why?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 19, 2021, 11:02:42 PM
It looks like Connaughton had a great game tonight, what happened to Holiday?  Is Nwora for real?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 19, 2021, 11:04:44 PM
Juan looks great in the Warriors’ season opener vs the Lakers.

I just turned it on?  Did he start?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
I just turned it on?  Did he start?

I don’t believe so, but I also didn’t watch from the beginning.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 19, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
That Westbrook pick-up for the Lakers isn't going to turn out well.  This Euro big for the Warriors can play. GS could be interesting if Klay comes back.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 19, 2021, 11:51:08 PM
The TNT guys went to LA instead of Milwaukee??  Ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 12:18:21 AM
That Westbrook pick-up for the Lakers isn't going to turn out well.  This Euro big for the Warriors can play. GS could be interesting if Klay comes back.

Yea I never liked the pickup for them. I don’t know how he and Lebron coexist.  Much less when Davis or Anthony are also out there.

And do you mean Bjelica? Dude has been in the league forever
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 20, 2021, 07:26:00 AM
It looks like Connaughton had a great game tonight, what happened to Holiday?  Is Nwora for real?

Holiday has a left foot contusion.  MRI is clean.  He'll be fine.

Nwora is for real in the sense that you can play him with Jrue, Khris, Giannis, and Brook and tell him to just hide on the worst offensive player defensively and then shoot the wide open looks those guys will create for him offensively.  In crunch time, it'll be Donte/Grayson/Pat C getting those minutes.  But he'll definitely contribute in the regular season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 08:07:04 AM
Yea I never liked the pickup for them. I don’t know how he and Lebron coexist.  Much less when Davis or Anthony are also out there.

And do you mean Bjelica? Dude has been in the league forever


As Barkley said last night, that Lakers team is going to need a lot of Ben Gay and rubbing alcohol.   Eight years ago that team would have been packed.  Now it is full of talent but old talent.  They can do it but I think its going to be hard to keep that team healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 08:18:20 AM
Yea I never liked the pickup for them. I don’t know how he and Lebron coexist.  Much less when Davis or Anthony are also out there.

And do you mean Bjelica? Dude has been in the league forever

Bjelly looked very good with the high pick and pop and can also pass the rock.  I wouldn't be surprised if GS averages 50 triples a game or more.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 20, 2021, 08:18:59 AM

As Barkley said last night, that Lakers team is going to need a lot of Ben Gay and rubbing alcohol.   Eight years ago that team would have been packed.  Now it is full of talent but old talent.  They can do it but I think its going to be hard to keep that team healthy.

Feels a lot like the 03-04 Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 08:26:45 AM
Feels a lot like the 03-04 Lakers.


Who still made the Finals, but also had peak Kobe.  Not sure they have a player that good on this team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on October 20, 2021, 09:22:33 AM
If last night was any indication, Grayson Allen has a sweet gig. Find space and enjoy all the open looks from three.

Brooklyn obviously isn't the finished article yet, but their frontcourt is a huge issue. Blake/LMA/Millsap all looked old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 10:05:38 AM
If last night was any indication, Grayson Allen has a sweet gig. Find space and enjoy all the open looks from three.

Brooklyn obviously isn't the finished article yet, but their frontcourt is a huge issue. Blake/LMA/Millsap all looked old.

Obviously, it's just one game.   Durant is Durant, and Harden may be the 2nd best offensive player in the league, but that team has significant probs on the defensive end.  They may still be the favorites if Kyrie comes back but I don't think they're as good as the Bucks. 

Looking at the box score Porrtis, DDV, Hood, Ojeyle didn't dress and Holiday I believe didn't play the entire 2nd half.  Now, I have no idea if Hood or Ojeyle will contribute but if Nwora is the real deal, look the hell out when this team is healthy. 

Because Allen was an absolute steal.  And he can defend as can DDV.  Nwora has the ability to be a good defender as well and can guard multiple positions.  If DDV comes back the Bucks have every position covered and solid depth.  As I said before, if the Bucks are healthy they're in perfect position to repeat.  And if either Hood, Nwora, or Ojeyle can be productive for 15 mins I would say they are significant favorites.  Connaughton is solid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 20, 2021, 10:52:36 AM

As Barkley said last night, that Lakers team is going to need a lot of Ben Gay and rubbing alcohol.   Eight years ago that team would have been packed.  Now it is full of talent but old talent.  They can do it but I think its going to be hard to keep that team healthy.

Because Lebron still thinks its 2010, not 2021.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on October 20, 2021, 11:45:44 AM
Because Lebron still thinks its 2010, not 2021.

Same can be said of the Nets. Lot of veteran savvy there, but who knows what these guys still have left in the tank. That said, Patty Mills still has lots left...would have loved him in Milwaukee (or anywhere other than Brooklyn)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 20, 2021, 12:44:38 PM
Same can be said of the Nets. Lot of veteran savvy there, but who knows what these guys still have left in the tank. That said, Patty Mills still has lots left...would have loved him in Milwaukee (or anywhere other than Brooklyn)

Eh, those guys are very early 30s and KD is the oldest at 33, and is a top 3 player in the league.

Lebron is 36, Melo is 37, Dwight Howard is 35, Rondo is 35.  Westbrook is 32.

That's a lot of really old dudes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 01:12:39 PM
Eh, those guys are very early 30s and KD is the oldest at 33, and is a top 3 player in the league.

Lebron is 36, Melo is 37, Dwight Howard is 35, Rondo is 35.  Westbrook is 32.

That's a lot of really old dudes.

Yea, the Lakers need minutes at the 5, especially with Davis being injury prone and Drummond sucked last year...so they go and get an ancient Dwight who hasn't averaged double digits in points or rebounds in almost 5 years and couldn't strongly beat out Javale for minutes the last time he was on the Lakers.

And then DeAndre Jordan who is also 33 and pretty much toast.  He was on Brooklyn to mentor young guys and then got traded anyways.  Yikes.

Then they trade a bunch of scoring for Westbrook, a VERY ball dominant player to go alongside a VERY ball dominant Lebron...and make up the difference by adding a 36 year old Trevor Ariza and the aforementioned Melo.

It honestly looks like a roster that someone assembled on NBA 2K12 with the trading restrictions toggled off.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 20, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
Eh, those guys are very early 30s and KD is the oldest at 33, and is a top 3 player in the league.

Lebron is 36, Melo is 37, Dwight Howard is 35, Rondo is 35.  Westbrook is 32.

That's a lot of really old dudes.

Millsap and Alrdidge are both 36. And Blake Griffin has fallen off due to injuries, so he's an old 32 compared to Durant still being in his prime at 32.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 20, 2021, 01:33:52 PM
Millsap and Alrdidge are both 36. And Blake Griffin has fallen off due to injuries, so he's an old 32 compared to Durant still being in his prime at 32.

I would 100% take the Nets lineup over the Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 01:41:28 PM
Millsap and Alrdidge are both 36. And Blake Griffin has fallen off due to injuries, so he's an old 32 compared to Durant still being in his prime at 32.

But the difference is they aren't expecting anything out of Millsap or Aldridge. Those guys will probably combine for 20 min depending opponents and injuries.

And thats not a great look at Griffin.  Injuries, yes, but he was a completely different player in Brooklyn compared to the end of his time in Detroit.  And he's only played a bit over 700 games in his career.  Durant and Harden, for example, are both over 1000.  Griffin may not be jumping over Kia's anymore, but assuming he continues to evolve his game, he doesn't have a ton of miles on him.

The rest of the Nets key players are between 25 and 30.  They have young talent like Cam Thomas, Claxton, and Sharpe.  The Lakers traded all theirs away.

I think a decent look at the Lakers season is gonna be last night.  Lebron starts 7/7 from the field, 3/3 from 3.  Twitter delirious over YEAR 19, THE MAN WILL NEVER FALL OFF...Lebron finishes 13/23, 2/8 on his last 8 3s, Lakers are outscored by 17 the last 15 min of the game.  He can still play at an All-NBA level, I just don't think its sustainable for a full season.  And the roster is assembled like those Cavs teams that were peak Lebron and some guys he likes.

I also think Westbrook is gonna be a terrible fit.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 01:58:33 PM
I would 100% take the Nets lineup over the Lakers.

The Lakers still have 2/5 top players but I don't really like their other pieces and especially their 3pt shooting.  I think Westbrook is a terrible fit regardless of his regular season numbers.  The desperately need better shooting in the backcourt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 20, 2021, 02:28:32 PM
But the difference is they aren't expecting anything out of Millsap or Aldridge. Those guys will probably combine for 20 min depending opponents and injuries.

And thats not a great look at Griffin.  Injuries, yes, but he was a completely different player in Brooklyn compared to the end of his time in Detroit.  And he's only played a bit over 700 games in his career.  Durant and Harden, for example, are both over 1000.  Griffin may not be jumping over Kia's anymore, but assuming he continues to evolve his game, he doesn't have a ton of miles on him.

The rest of the Nets key players are between 25 and 30.  They have young talent like Cam Thomas, Claxton, and Sharpe.  The Lakers traded all theirs away.

I think a decent look at the Lakers season is gonna be last night.  Lebron starts 7/7 from the field, 3/3 from 3.  Twitter delirious over YEAR 19, THE MAN WILL NEVER FALL OFF...Lebron finishes 13/23, 2/8 on his last 8 3s, Lakers are outscored by 17 the last 15 min of the game.  He can still play at an All-NBA level, I just don't think its sustainable for a full season.  And the roster is assembled like those Cavs teams that were peak Lebron and some guys he likes.

I also think Westbrook is gonna be a terrible fit.

I thought Monk was a good signing because he fills a specific need for the Lakers. Otherwise, I didn't think they helped themselves during the offseason. You're probably right in that they actually hurt themselves with their moves.

I have long admired Westbrook's competitiveness, his motor, and his all-around game but I totally agree about the fit (or lack thereof) with the Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 02:43:17 PM
The Lakers still have 2/5 top players but I don't really like their other pieces and especially their 3pt shooting.  I think Westbrook is a terrible fit regardless of his regular season numbers.  The desperately need better shooting in the backcourt.

I don't agree.  Davis is probably a top 10 guy, but he's not consistent nor healthy enough lately for him to be a top 5 guy.  And I'd rather have Giannis, Durant, Kawhi, Jokic, Luka, and Curry over current 36 year old Lebron.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 20, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
I would 100% take the Nets lineup over the Lakers.

And I would take the Bucks lineup over the Nets - even if Kyrie comes back. I would take Giannis, Khris, and Jrue any day over the Nets Big 3.

The Bucks Big 3 compliment each other. For the Nets, they almost take turns between their stars, rendering the other two guys on the court into just good NBA players.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
The Lakers still have 2/5 top players but I don't really like their other pieces and especially their 3pt shooting.  I think Westbrook is a terrible fit regardless of his regular season numbers.  The desperately need better shooting in the backcourt.


And this is what I don't understand about the Lakers.  It's like they haven't watched the last decade of NBA ball.  Everyone knows you need shooting.  What they didn't need is Russell Westbook running point when you have LBJ and others who can run it fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 20, 2021, 04:05:12 PM
And I would take the Bucks lineup over the Nets - even if Kyrie comes back. I would take Giannis, Khris, and Jrue any day over the Nets Big 3.

The Bucks Big 3 compliment each other. For the Nets, they almost take turns between their stars, rendering the other two guys on the court into just good NBA players.

You're letting the depleted Nets of the end of the second round series and the Kyrie-less Nets of last night blind you.  When the Nets' Big 3 were all available last year (which wasn't often) they were historically good and worked incredibly well together.  KD can fit with any player on the planet, and Harden was 7th in the NBA in assists per game (and Kyrie was 21st).  All three can beat defenders off the dribble, all three can shoot, and all three can create for others.  They were about 30 seconds away from taking a 3-0 lead on the Bucks, and they were about 0.75 inches away from winning game 7 in regulation without Kyrie and with a hobbled Harden.  The Nets were far and away the best team in the NBA last year (with the Bucks far and away the second best).  The Bucks are better this year than they were last year, but I think the Nets will be too if Kyrie returns.  Patty Mills is a huge addition for them and they'll only get better in year 2 playing together.

With Kyrie, the Nets are the best team in the NBA this year, with the Bucks having a puncher's chance to beat them in a 7 game series.  Without Kyrie, that is reversed.  Everybody else in the NBA (taking into consideration injuries to players like Kawhi and Murray) are at least 1 step behind the Bucks and Nets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 04:14:54 PM
I don't agree.  Davis is probably a top 10 guy, but he's not consistent nor healthy enough lately for him to be a top 5 guy.  And I'd rather have Giannis, Durant, Kawhi, Jokic, Luka, and Curry over current 36 year old Lebron.

I disagree that Lebron isn't top 5.  Davis has to be healthy but you have to consider how much better he is than Jokic, Luka, or Curry on the defensive end of the floor.   It's debatable but I wouldn't put either Luka or Jokic in my top 5.  It's tough
after Giannis, Durant, Lebron.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 04:24:34 PM
I disagree that Lebron isn't top 5.  Davis has to be healthy but you have to consider how much better he is than Jokic, Luka, or Curry on the defensive end of the floor.   It's debatable but I wouldn't put either Luka or Jokic in my top 5.  It's tough
after Giannis, Durant, Lebron.


I'm not a Lebron hater, but there is no way he's top five right now.  I think it's generous to suggest he's top ten at this point.  We will see if he bounces back this year, but he's been declining for three years now.  (Anthony Davis was the best player on the Lakers' most recent championship.)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
You're letting the depleted Nets of the end of the second round series and the Kyrie-less Nets of last night blind you.  When the Nets' Big 3 were all available last year (which wasn't often) they were historically good and worked incredibly well together.  KD can fit with any player on the planet, and Harden was 7th in the NBA in assists per game (and Kyrie was 21st).  All three can beat defenders off the dribble, all three can shoot, and all three can create for others.  They were about 30 seconds away from taking a 3-0 lead on the Bucks, and they were about 0.75 inches away from winning game 7 in regulation without Kyrie and with a hobbled Harden.  The Nets were far and away the best team in the NBA last year (with the Bucks far and away the second best).  The Bucks are better this year than they were last year, but I think the Nets will be too if Kyrie returns.  Patty Mills is a huge addition for them and they'll only get better in year 2 playing together.

With Kyrie, the Nets are the best team in the NBA this year, with the Bucks having a puncher's chance to beat them in a 7 game series.  Without Kyrie, that is reversed.  Everybody else in the NBA (taking into consideration injuries to players like Kawhi and Murray) are at least 1 step behind the Bucks and Nets.

Not to mention one of the other 2 "good players" is the one of the 2-3 best pure shooters in the NBA. Harris is an unreal shooter who can just float on the wings while the Nets Big 3 do what they do.  He's not only the prototypical complementary player for that kind of team, he does it better than almost anyone
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 05:34:19 PM

I'm not a Lebron hater, but there is no way he's top five right now.  I think it's generous to suggest he's top ten at this point.  We will see if he bounces back this year, but he's been declining for three years now.  (Anthony Davis was the best player on the Lakers' most recent championship.)

I am a Lebron hater but his decline doesn't mean he's not in the top 5.  The guy still dropped about 25, 8, and 8 last year.  Davis got hurt, ergo he had no chance to beat Phoenix or advance in the playoffs. He plays more in spurts than the past but are there really 5 or 10 guys that you'd rather have in the playoffs?  I don't see it.  But I hope your observations are correct.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 06:53:12 PM
I am a Lebron hater but his decline doesn't mean he's not in the top 5.  The guy still dropped about 25, 8, and 8 last year.  Davis got hurt, ergo he had no chance to beat Phoenix or advance in the playoffs. He plays more in spurts than the past but are there really 5 or 10 guys that you'd rather have in the playoffs?  I don't see it.  But I hope your observations are correct.


There are definitely more than five guys I would rather have in the playoffs based on last year.  Curry, Giannis, Durant, Luka, Jokic and I may even throw a Leonard and Embiid in there.

Perhaps I will feel differently after this year is done.


Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 07:31:12 PM

There are definitely more than five guys I would rather have in the playoffs based on last year.  Curry, Giannis, Durant, Luka, Jokic and I may even throw a Leonard and Embiid in there.

Perhaps I will feel differently after this year is done.

Fluffy he's been draining the three.  Maybe not at your percentage clip (which I assume is automatic) but Lebron has dramatically improved from distance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 07:42:37 PM
Fluffy he's been draining the three.  Maybe not at your percentage clip (which I assume is automatic) but Lebron has dramatically improved from distance.

Lebron’s career average from deep is just under 35%.  The last 3 seasons in LA he shot 34, 35, and just over 36% from deep. 

In Miami, he shot around 38% and his last 2 years in Cleveland he shot better from deep than he did last year, which was his best year in LA (which also had the one of the fewest 3PA in a season of his career).

Sooo, not really sure what is “dramatic” about his improvement, which actually hasn’t even been improvement.  He’s actually regressed a bit from his mid career peak. He’s always been a serviceable 3P shooter but not one who will ever strike fear in teams hearts
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 08:01:10 PM
Lebron’s career average from deep is just under 35%.  The last 3 seasons in LA he shot 34, 35, and just over 36% from deep. 

In Miami, he shot around 38% and his last 2 years in Cleveland he shot better from deep than he did last year, which was his best year in LA (which also had the one of the fewest 3PA in a season of his career).

Sooo, not really sure what is “dramatic” about his improvement, which actually hasn’t even been improvement.  He’s actually regressed a bit from his mid career peak. He’s always been a serviceable 3P shooter but not one who will ever strike fear in teams hearts

But isn't he shooting more of them?  I think we can all agree, at the end of the day, the game is about buckets JWags?  If it was about pure fundamentals I would play NBA ball for at least 50 yrs.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 20, 2021, 08:06:41 PM
You're letting the depleted Nets of the end of the second round series and the Kyrie-less Nets of last night blind you.  When the Nets' Big 3 were all available last year (which wasn't often) they were historically good and worked incredibly well together.  KD can fit with any player on the planet, and Harden was 7th in the NBA in assists per game (and Kyrie was 21st).  All three can beat defenders off the dribble, all three can shoot, and all three can create for others.  They were about 30 seconds away from taking a 3-0 lead on the Bucks, and they were about 0.75 inches away from winning game 7 in regulation without Kyrie and with a hobbled Harden.  The Nets were far and away the best team in the NBA last year (with the Bucks far and away the second best).  The Bucks are better this year than they were last year, but I think the Nets will be too if Kyrie returns.  Patty Mills is a huge addition for them and they'll only get better in year 2 playing together.

With Kyrie, the Nets are the best team in the NBA this year, with the Bucks having a puncher's chance to beat them in a 7 game series.  Without Kyrie, that is reversed.  Everybody else in the NBA (taking into consideration injuries to players like Kawhi and Murray) are at least 1 step behind the Bucks and Nets.

I don't mean to call you out, Wades as you are one of the smart 'sports guys' here. But a team is not historically good based on 8 games. Especially when several were against some of the defensive dregs of the NBA.


Just a note of just how much they have touched the basketball in their careers. A good measure of this is usage rate, which shows the percentage of a team’s plays taken up by a player’s shooting or turning the ball over. A-level stars are usually in the mid-to-high 20 percent range. Durant is at 30.2 percent, and Irving at 29.3 percent. But Harden is on another level: He is one of two players in N.B.A. history to reach 40 percent for a season.

That was the point of my post. All of their usage numbers go down when they play together. They all like to play iso ball which means that often times 2 of the 3 superstars are little more than spectators.

All that being said, Durant and Harden are top 10 players. Kyrie may be one. I would not be surprised to see them win a title. If only basketball was played only at the offensive end of the floor.

Lots of teams are just a fraction away from winning a title. The Bucks were one warmup jacket left sitting on the floor away from winning a title. So, in the scheme of things, you either win or you don't. Coming close means you lost.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 08:12:58 PM
But isn't he shooting more of them?  I think we can all agree, at the end of the day, the game is about buckets JWags?  If it was about pure fundamentals I would play NBA ball for at least 50 yrs.  :)


Please don't tell me you're one of these "NBA players aren't fundamental" guys.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 08:19:49 PM

Please don't tell me you're one of these "NBA players aren't fundamental" guys.

I'm not.  Most all are fundamentally sound but my level is supernova-elite.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 08:26:10 PM
In all seriousness I think Lebron is still top 5  and I think most GM's would agree with me.

It's tragic I never had Muggsy's elevation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 08:32:48 PM
But isn't he shooting more of them?  I think we can all agree, at the end of the day, the game is about buckets JWags?  If it was about pure fundamentals I would play NBA ball for at least 50 yrs.  :)

Not really. A bit over 1 attempt a game more.  And only about .5 3PM a game than his mid career. His overall FGA are actually up when you look at most of his career.   Again not drastic or even all that notable in terms of volume or efficiency.

And sure it’s about buckets, but you claimed part of why Lebron is still top 5 to you is cause he’s making a bunch of 3s at a good clip, which isn’t true.  So not sure where fundamentals or buckets or whatever matters to the discussion.  Just more purely opinion based claims
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 08:34:34 PM
Not really. A bit over 1 attempt a game more.  And only about .5 3PM a game than his mid career. His overall FGA are actually up when you look at most of his career.   Again not drastic or even all that notable in terms of volume or efficiency.

And sure it’s about buckets, but you claimed part of why Lebron is still top 5 to you is cause he’s making a bunch of 3s at a good clip, which isn’t true.  So not sure where fundamentals or buckets or whatever matters to the discussion.  Just more purely opinion based claims

You don't think he's top 5?  He shot 6 triples a game last year at 36.5%.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2021, 08:54:05 PM
You don't think he's top 5?  He shot 6 triples a game last year at 36.5%.

No, I’ve said as much and listed who I think are above him.  And 5 years ago in Cleveland he shot 5 a game at 36.7%. It’s not some significant difference or new critical aspect of his game, especially with how many 3s the league is taking in general.  It’s not like when Brook Lopez became a profilic deep threat out of nowhere.  Or if Giannis suddenly started shooting 6 3s a game in the high 30s
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 09:05:18 PM
No, I’ve said as much and listed who I think are above him.  And 5 years ago in Cleveland he shot 5 a game at 36.7%. It’s not some significant difference or new critical aspect of his game, especially with how many 3s the league is taking in general.  It’s not like when Brook Lopez became a profilic deep threat out of nowhere.  Or if Giannis suddenly started shooting 6 3s a game in the high 30s

Fiar enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 20, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
I had to ump so I didn't see the game itself, but I just watched the full-game highlights of the Pacers-Hornets game on YouTube. Wow ... what a game!

Pacers up big early, led by 23 in 3rd quarter ... Hornets rally for the lead and go up by 10 in the 4th ... Pacers come back to go ahead by 1 late ... Hornets win by 1 at the end. LaMelo 31-9-7 (with 7 3s), Hayward 27, Sabonis 33-15, Brogdon 28-4-11, rookie Duarte 27.

I was stunned to look at the box score and see Duarte "only" had 27 and "only" hit 6 (of 9) 3s, because watching the highlights it seemed like he hit about a dozen 3s. Very, very smooth shot. Looks like Pacers got a good one.

Hornets were without Terry Rozier, their leading scorer from last season; he sprained his ankle a couple weeks ago. Top draft pick Bouknight didn't play at all, which surprised me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 10:50:07 PM
I know Isaiah Thomas won two titles but of the 6'2 and under guys who would you say was the greatest among Iverson, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, Archibald, Paul? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 20, 2021, 10:52:54 PM
I know Isaiah Thomas won two titles but of the 6'2 and under guys who would you say was the greatest among Iverson, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, Archibald, Paul?

Isiah.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Isiah.

Those Pistons teams were really good, and deep.  I think you're probably right but if you slot Stockton, Paul, or Iverson on those teams would they not win a chip or two?  Iverson was clearly the best athlete in this group.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 11:11:57 PM
Iverson had both zoomability and zippability.  Granted, he wasn't a pure PG, but very few players possess these two traits.  Meaning the talent to dominate North, South, East, and West with the rock in their hands.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 20, 2021, 11:21:44 PM
Those Pistons teams were really good, and deep.  I think you're probably right but if you slot Stockton, Paul, or Iverson on those teams would they not win a chip or two?  Iverson was clearly the best athlete in this group.

Maybe those others would have been better than Isiah if they had been on the Pistons ... or maybe not. It's hard to deal with hypotheticals.

I just liked Isiah's ability to do whatever the team needed -- if the Pistons needed him to score, he could put in a dozen in 5 minutes; if they needed him to get everybody else involved, he was a double-digit assist machine. He also was a tough (some might say dirty) SOB who would rip your heart out.

But I'd take any of 'em, Muggs.

Saw lots of all of them except Cousy, whom I only know from grainy black-and-white film. He also was on some pretty good, deep teams!

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 20, 2021, 11:40:31 PM
Maybe those others would have been better than Isiah if they had been on the Pistons ... or maybe not. It's hard to deal with hypotheticals.

I just liked Isiah's ability to do whatever the team needed -- if the Pistons needed him to score, he could put in a dozen in 5 minutes; if they needed him to get everybody else involved, he was a double-digit assist machine. He also was a tough (some might say dirty) SOB who would rip your heart out.

But I'd take any of 'em, Muggs.

Saw lots of all of them except Cousy, whom I only know from grainy black-and-white film. He also was on some pretty good, deep teams!

Absolutely.  I'd take any of them as well.  We need a prime-time PG at MU.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on October 21, 2021, 08:37:53 AM
Those Pistons teams were really good, and deep.  I think you're probably right but if you slot Stockton, Paul, or Iverson on those teams would they not win a chip or two?  Iverson was clearly the best athlete in this group.

I have this weird feeling like Iverson was thrived in that magical chucker era right before analytics came along and changed the game. I honestly find myself wondering if he was an efficient scorer or not.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 21, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
I have this weird feeling like Iverson was thrived in that magical chucker era right before analytics came along and changed the game. I honestly find myself wondering if he was an efficient scorer or not.

Its a fair question, but he did have a career FG% of 45%.  By today's game, he probably wasn't very efficient cause he was never a great 3P shooter and didn't take many of them.  But he wasn't awful given his game and his size.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 21, 2021, 09:39:29 AM
I have this weird feeling like Iverson was thrived in that magical chucker era right before analytics came along and changed the game. I honestly find myself wondering if he was an efficient scorer or not.

He got to the line a lot.  Tough as nails for his size.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 21, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Some historical comparisons:

Iverson
Career usage 31.8%
Career O rating 105

Wade
31.4% usage
109 O rating

Kobe
31.8% usage
110 O rating

Jordan
33.3%
118 O rating
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 21, 2021, 09:51:23 AM
Its a fair question, but he did have a career FG% of 45%.  By today's game, he probably wasn't very efficient cause he was never a great 3P shooter and didn't take many of them.  But he wasn't awful given his game and his size.

Like so many others from the Pre-Emphasis-On-3s Era, Iverson probably would have made himself a very good 3-point shooter if that's what the game called for him to be.

Whether talking about older greats like Frazier, Monroe, West, Havlicek, etc, who played all or most of their careers before the 3-point line even existed, or more recent guys like Jordan, Drexler, Payton, etc ... they would have made themselves more-than-acceptable (and maybe even very good or maybe even great) 3-point shooters because that's what the game would have called for them to be.

Larry Bird was a great shooter ... and yet he only averaged 1.9 attempts from 3 in his career. If he played today, he'd be taking 8+ like Steph, and he'd probably shoot 40% or better on them.

I'm not sure Iverson would have been quite that good from 3, but I'm guessing he would have made himself pretty good.

Then again, he famously didn't like practice -- "You talkin' 'bout practice?" -- so maybe not!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 21, 2021, 09:46:26 PM
Decent quarter for Curry:  9-9, 5-5 from three, 25 pts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on October 21, 2021, 11:20:23 PM
I know Isaiah Thomas won two titles but of the 6'2 and under guys who would you say was the greatest among Iverson, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, Archibald, Paul?
Isiah had the ability to completely dominate a game, at a time when the league was dominated by Big Men.

He was a sensational player who played and competed very hard.

The fans always got their money’s worth when he played.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 22, 2021, 09:14:17 PM
Bulls are gonna struggle against good teams, but they’re gonna be a whole lot of fun to watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on October 22, 2021, 10:30:42 PM
Well the lakers roster off to an interesting start. Davis and Howard getting into an altercation on the bench.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 22, 2021, 10:36:17 PM
Well the lakers roster off to an interesting start. Davis and Howard getting into an altercation on the bench.

Questionable outside shooting and I'm not sure they can guard anyone?   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 22, 2021, 10:49:07 PM
Chris Paul looks like a conductor out there and the Lakers literally cannot guard him, especially on switches.  The Suns are annihilating the Lakers.  It's a satisfying watch. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on October 22, 2021, 10:58:39 PM
Chris Paul looks like a conductor out there and the Lakers literally cannot guard him, especially on switches.  The Suns are annihilating the Lakers.  It's a satisfying watch.

Phoenix winning by 32 while shooting 28.6% from 3. Imagine if they actually shot well from 3. They might have been winning by 50.

Lebron needs shooters. His best move right now is to back defenders down and if a double comes kick it out. If not fade away jumper.

If the guys can't hit 3's. He just gets doubled into a bad pass, which happened several times tonight. It'll be interesting to see how they try to make this work.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 22, 2021, 11:10:01 PM
Phoenix winning by 32 while shooting 28.6% from 3. Imagine if they actually shot well from 3. They might have been winning by 50.

Lebron needs shooters. His best move right now is to back defenders down and if a double comes kick it out. If not fade away jumper.

If the guys can't hit 3's. He just gets doubled into a bad pass, which happened several times tonight. It'll be interesting to see how they try to make this work.

The Lakers are going to struggle to beat good teams if Davis or Lebron have an off night.  But beyond that I'm not sure they have the shooting or defensive pieces.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 22, 2021, 11:13:43 PM
Lakers are gonna be in trouble. They just refuse to play defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 22, 2021, 11:30:26 PM
Hard to make a judgement after 2 games.  Although it's interesting that Kuzma dropped 25 for the Wizatds going 5-8 from from downtown.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 23, 2021, 05:42:36 AM
But I was told the Bucks only won the title because AD got hurt  otherwise the Lakers would’ve rolled the Suns and LBJ would’ve got ring 5.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 24, 2021, 12:03:47 AM
Before the 2019 draft I stated that I'm not so sure I would take Williamson before Morant.  I'm starting to think I may have been right on that call.  He's the real deal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on October 24, 2021, 06:44:31 AM
Before the 2019 draft I stated that I'm not so sure I would take Williamson before Morant.  I'm starting to think I may have been right on that call.  He's the real deal.

I always thought Morant was the pick because as electric as Zion is, I didn't believe his knees could hold up over a career.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 24, 2021, 10:11:23 PM
Uhhh.... Ja Morant is absolutely electric.  He's like a 6'4 Iverson.  Ridiculous athlete and getting better from the perimeter. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on October 25, 2021, 11:53:32 AM
Uhhh.... Ja Morant is absolutely electric.  He's like a 6'4 Iverson.  Ridiculous athlete and getting better from the perimeter.

Ja Morant is fantastic, which is why I would've taken him over Zion. But I don't think anyone was more electric coming out than Zion in my lifetime. Part of that was social media, but part of it was simply no one his size has ever been able to do what he did the way he did it. Morant had great potential, but Zion was a unicorn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
Ja Morant is fantastic, which is why I would've taken him over Zion. But I don't think anyone was more electric coming out than Zion in my lifetime. Part of that was social media, but part of it was simply no one his size has ever been able to do what he did the way he did it. Morant had great potential, but Zion was a unicorn.

I agree with you Brew but Morant, because of his position, has the ball in his hands more.  He's skinnier than Wade but similarly has ridiculous blow by ability  North. South, East, and West.  That's why I see him sort of like a bigger Iverson.  He's also an excellent passer and we all know about his ability to elevate.  The bottom line is the kid is special despite people like Doncic and Trey Young getting way more attention.  He also has the potential to be an excellent defender unlike some of the other young guns.  If he gets a little heavier/stronger, and a consistent J, look the hell out.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 25, 2021, 07:07:14 PM
From the Charlotte Observer after the Hornets crushed the Nets in Brooklyn in the 4th quarter to win going away ...

Ish Smith — not LaMelo Ball — was on the floor for most of the fourth quarter during the Hornets’ 111-95 victory over the Brooklyn Nets on Sunday. Why?

“Melo damn near told Coach,” Miles Bridges said, “he told Coach, he was like, ‘Leave him in the game.’”

Smith was playing a fantastic game, and Ball recognized that.

“Melo, I’ve got to give Melo a ton of credit,” Hornets coach James Borrego said. “He wanted us … He said, ‘Just ride out Ish. Ish is hot, Ish is rolling. I trust it. Let’s go.’ And that’s just maturity on his part.”

How many 20-year-olds with that kind of skill would say such a thing?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2021, 07:12:30 PM
Ish Smith was one of my favorite stories a few years ago.   Journeyman defined.    Love it when they find a groove. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 07:22:34 PM
From the Charlotte Observer after the Hornets crushed the Nets in Brooklyn in the 4th quarter to win going away ...

Ish Smith — not LaMelo Ball — was on the floor for most of the fourth quarter during the Hornets’ 111-95 victory over the Brooklyn Nets on Sunday. Why?

“Melo damn near told Coach,” Miles Bridges said, “he told Coach, he was like, ‘Leave him in the game.’”

Smith was playing a fantastic game, and Ball recognized that.

“Melo, I’ve got to give Melo a ton of credit,” Hornets coach James Borrego said. “He wanted us … He said, ‘Just ride out Ish. Ish is hot, Ish is rolling. I trust it. Let’s go.’ And that’s just maturity on his part.”

How many 20-year-olds with that kind of skill would say such a thing?


I haven't gotten a chance to watch LeMelo Ball much but the few times I did I was thoroughly impressed.   Excellent court vision and obviously great size for a PG.  That Charlotte team could make some noise this year. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 25, 2021, 07:25:26 PM
I haven't gotten a chance to watch LeMelo Ball much but the few times I did I was thoroughly impressed.   Excellent court vision and obviously great size for a PG.  That Charlotte team could make some noise this year.

A lot of good young players, two nice veterans in Hayward and Rozier. Probably a year or two away, but if they stay healthy I agree. They were #4 in the East, ahead of the Hawks, more than 3/4 of the way through last season before they lost Hayward and Ball.

And yes, LaMelo is a hell of an offensive player already, and he'll only get better.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
Ish Smith was a bettors dream (or nightmare) in his Sixers/Thunder/Pels years. Most second units could be a bit disjointed.  Dude would come in and be a certified bucket getter, especially late in games.  Dude was never a star but always instant offense
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 07:35:43 PM
Does anyone know who invented the finger-roll?  Connie Hawkins?   It's effective if you're undersized.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 07:36:59 PM
The internet says Wilt....very surprised.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 25, 2021, 08:43:25 PM
The internet says Wilt....very surprised.

The reason was very simple, though.

The lane was only 12 feet wide rather than the current 16. So it was the most effective shot for him - other than dunking.  As a matter of fact, the NBA changed the width to 16' solely to try to contain Wilt's scoring.  They had widened the lane to 12' years earlier in an attempt to contain George Mikan.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 08:51:10 PM
The reason was very simple, though.

The lane was only 12 feet wide rather than the current 16. So it was the most effective shot for him - other than dunking.  As a matter of fact, the NBA changed the width to 16' solely to try to contain Wilt's scoring.  They had widened the lane to 12' years earlier in an attempt to contain George Mikan.

Interesting tidbit.   Ty.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 25, 2021, 10:53:22 PM
Does anyone know who invented the finger-roll?  Connie Hawkins?   It's effective if you're undersized.  :)

It’s effective if you’re a giant too. With a head of steam, Giannis can drop in a finger roll starting a gather from outside the free throw line, in traffic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on October 25, 2021, 11:08:17 PM
Does anyone know who invented the finger-roll?  Connie Hawkins?   It's effective if you're undersized.  :)

Not sure who invented it, but George Gervin perfected it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 25, 2021, 11:21:19 PM
Giannis and Gervin can palm the ball.  I guess I was looking at this from a below the rim perspective to avoid a blocked shot.  Maybe I had more of an underhand flip as opposed to the finger roll.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on October 26, 2021, 07:27:49 AM
The internet says Wilt....very surprised.
It was his signature shot
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 26, 2021, 09:01:06 AM
Tyler Herro really said he's in the same category as Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant?  LOL!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 26, 2021, 10:15:29 AM
Tyler Herro really said he's in the same category as Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant?  LOL!

Not quite, he reacted to the top 12 under 24.

And if I'm a Heat fan, I love it.  People laughed and scoffed when he went to Kentucky.  Then he made himself a lottery pick.  Then scoffed when he went that high and then he had a good rookie year and balled in the playoffs.  He wasn't great last year but had a really strong preseason and started the season hot as hell.  I want my guys to have that belief and that chip on their shoulder.

And its not entirely ludicrous to view him in a tier with Haliburton, SGA, and DeAaron Fox.  Especially when the latter 2 have 1-2 more seasons in the league than him.  Unless you feel he's already peaked
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 26, 2021, 10:17:21 AM
Tyler Herro really said he's in the same category as Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant?  LOL!

Kid could be enjoying his senior season at Madison playing with Brad Davison.  Kid has to wonder what could have been
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 26, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Not quite, he reacted to the top 12 under 24.

And if I'm a Heat fan, I love it.  People laughed and scoffed when he went to Kentucky.  Then he made himself a lottery pick.  Then scoffed when he went that high and then he had a good rookie year and balled in the playoffs.  He wasn't great last year but had a really strong preseason and started the season hot as hell.  I want my guys to have that belief and that chip on their shoulder.

And its not entirely ludicrous to view him in a tier with Haliburton, SGA, and DeAaron Fox.  Especially when the latter 2 have 1-2 more seasons in the league than him.  Unless you feel he's already peaked

He said he thinks he should be in the same category/conversation as Luka, Trae, Ja.  “I feel like I’m in the same conversation as those guys, the young guys coming up in the league who can be All-Stars, superstars one day,” Herro said. “Luka [Doncic], Trae [Young], Ja [Morant], those guys like that. I feel like my name should be in that category, too.”

The difference between him and those guys are that it's not "one day" for those guys.  Those guys are superstars and he belongs nowhere near their names.  Those are all top 20 NBA players right now.  Herro has never been a starter for a team that has been the 6 seed and the 5 seed in the Eastern Conference in his two years.  Nice player.  Got hot in the bubble.  But LOL at him thinking he belongs in the same conversation as Luka, Trae, Ja.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 26, 2021, 10:24:48 AM
Not quite, he reacted to the top 12 under 24.

And if I'm a Heat fan, I love it.  People laughed and scoffed when he went to Kentucky.  Then he made himself a lottery pick.  Then scoffed when he went that high and then he had a good rookie year and balled in the playoffs.  He wasn't great last year but had a really strong preseason and started the season hot as hell.  I want my guys to have that belief and that chip on their shoulder.

And its not entirely ludicrous to view him in a tier with Haliburton, SGA, and DeAaron Fox.  Especially when the latter 2 have 1-2 more seasons in the league than him.  Unless you feel he's already peaked

I agree, but the comment was he feels he is in the same category as Luke, Ja, and Trae. It was in an interview a few weeks ago and separate from the Top 12 under 24 I believe. Granted, he said he feels being in that category means being a future All-Star and potential Superstar. Based on the start of his career, I don’t think an All Star team is out of the realm of possibility.

I think the reason the comment sticks out to me was the thought his play suffered last year due to getting caught up in the Fame and NBA party lifestyle. He’s off to a hot start this year though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 26, 2021, 11:49:53 AM
He's got game and swag. We could use some of that. Would've looked great reppin' da Blue and Gold, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 26, 2021, 11:59:40 AM
He's got game and swag. We could use some of that. Would've looked great reppin' da Blue and Gold, aina?

A shame Da Hausers canceled him, nu?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 26, 2021, 12:19:02 PM
A shame Da Hausers canceled him, nu?

One of the gravest mistakes Wojo made was bringing in the Hausers.  Coach and program killers
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 26, 2021, 12:24:29 PM
He said he thinks he should be in the same category/conversation as Luka, Trae, Ja.  “I feel like I’m in the same conversation as those guys, the young guys coming up in the league who can be All-Stars, superstars one day,” Herro said. “Luka [Doncic], Trae [Young], Ja [Morant], those guys like that. I feel like my name should be in that category, too.”

The difference between him and those guys are that it's not "one day" for those guys.  Those guys are superstars and he belongs nowhere near their names.  Those are all top 20 NBA players right now.  Herro has never been a starter for a team that has been the 6 seed and the 5 seed in the Eastern Conference in his two years.  Nice player.  Got hot in the bubble.  But LOL at him thinking he belongs in the same conversation as Luka, Trae, Ja.

Fair enough, I missed the quote.  But it just smacks of pettiness to laugh at him.  Again, every single great player in the league has that chip on that shoulder and their belief that they can play with anyone.  He never said that he's the best in the league, or he's better than them, just that he could be a future All Star like them.  He started slow last year but his percentages and splits ended up being just as good as in the bubble.  He's 22 and is just gonna get better.

Calling out not being a starter is dumb too. He's second on the team in minutes behind Jimmy this year and was basically 3rd last year.  Spo likes him off the bench early on.  He's every bit a starter in minutes and contribution. 

But its clear that you've made up your mind that you don't like him and he's a bum so none of this matters.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 26, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
Fair enough, I missed the quote.  But it just smacks of pettiness to laugh at him.  Again, every single great player in the league has that chip on that shoulder and their belief that they can play with anyone.  He never said that he's the best in the league, or he's better than them, just that he could be a future All Star like them.  He started slow last year but his percentages and splits ended up being just as good as in the bubble.  He's 22 and is just gonna get better.

Calling out not being a starter is dumb too. He's second on the team in minutes behind Jimmy this year and was basically 3rd last year.  Spo likes him off the bench early on.  He's every bit a starter in minutes and contribution. 

But its clear that you've made up your mind that you don't like him and he's a bum so none of this matters.

Never said he's a bum.  I do think he is not anywhere close to a top 20 NBA player, which is what he's calling himself by saying he belongs in the same conversation as Ja, Trae, and Luka.  He's nowhere close.  It's honestly not even debatable whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 26, 2021, 12:56:38 PM
Never said he's a bum.  I do think he is not anywhere close to a top 20 NBA player, which is what he's calling himself by saying he belongs in the same conversation as Ja, Trae, and Luka.  He's nowhere close.  It's honestly not even debatable whatsoever.

Not a top 20 player?

He ain’t even close to top 50.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 26, 2021, 01:07:09 PM
Not a top 20 player?

He ain’t even close to top 50.

Agreed.  And Trae, Luka, and Ja are all top 20 players.  Which is why I said LOL to his quote about him thinking he should be in the conversation with those three guys.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 26, 2021, 01:17:36 PM
Herro is capable of being an explosive scorer but can be streaky.  He's also a very good rebounder for a guard and a decent playmaker.  The guy may have all-star potential but when you're talking Doncic, Morant, or Young?  He's not close to their level right now.  I need a bigger sample size but it would not surprise me if Morant winds up being the best of the three.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 26, 2021, 01:20:58 PM
He is definitely not in their tier and he will get poked fun at for it, but I don’t see an issue with the comment. Unless, he’s acting like he’s already a top-20 player and hurting the team.

He’s probably got Jimmy as a mentor and I don’t know if anyone has more confidence in themselves than Jimmy. I’m sure that’s part of the reason he went from defensive role player to a star in the league. If that is the mentality Herro has to have to succeed, then if I were a Heat fan, I’d be fine with him thinking that way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 26, 2021, 01:27:48 PM
Never said he's a bum.  I do think he is not anywhere close to a top 20 NBA player, which is what he's calling himself by saying he belongs in the same conversation as Ja, Trae, and Luka.  He's nowhere close.  It's honestly not even debatable whatsoever.

I mean nobody is disagreeing with that.  I just took as wanting to be in the conversation of guys who are the future and next wave of stars of the league.  Which doesn't bother me.  I didn't read it as "im just as good right now".

FWIW, I don't think Trae Young is a top 20 player.  Ja and Luka, definitely.  Gets talked about like Curry with unlimited range and threat from everywhere yet Curry has never shot below 41% from 3 for a season and his career average is 43%...which is 10 points higher than Young's 34%.  He's not an efficient scorer (eFG is almost always under 50%) and I'll wait to see if the NBA actually cracks down on his foul hunting BS.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 26, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
I mean nobody is disagreeing with that.  I just took as wanting to be in the conversation of guys who are the future and next wave of stars of the league.  Which doesn't bother me.  I didn't read it as "im just as good right now".

FWIW, I don't think Trae Young is a top 20 player.  Ja and Luka, definitely.  Gets talked about like Curry with unlimited range and threat from everywhere yet Curry has never shot below 41% from 3 for a season and his career average is 43%...which is 10 points higher than Young's 34%.  He's not an efficient scorer (eFG is almost always under 50%) and I'll wait to see if the NBA actually cracks down on his foul hunting BS.

In Trae's defense, Curry is Curry.  You can't compare anyone to him imo.  Obviously Lebron and perhaps Durant and Giannis will wind up higher on the all-time great list, but Curry is significantly better than the guards of his era. This is just a fact despite many of them being Hall of Famers.  Harden, Westbrook, Paul, Lillard, and some of the young gums may think they're better.  Some have pretty gaudy stats.  Uh....they're not.  And I think Curry has more left in the tank than people realize.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on October 26, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
He is definitely not in their tier and he will get poked fun at for it, but I don’t see an issue with the comment. Unless, he’s acting like he’s already a top-20 player and hurting the team.

He’s probably got Jimmy as a mentor and I don’t know if anyone has more confidence in themselves than Jimmy. I’m sure that’s part of the reason he went from defensive role player to a star in the league. If that is the mentality Herro has to have to succeed, then if I were a Heat fan, I’d be fine with him thinking that way.

Ha I’m with you. It’s amazing the tilt such a standard comment is causing.

Is he anywhere close to those guys?? Clearly no.

Was he also just very clearly trying to be confident in himself? Yes.

One of the most harmless comments possible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 26, 2021, 07:31:14 PM
Ha I’m with you. It’s amazing the tilt such a standard comment is causing.

Is he anywhere close to those guys?? Clearly no.

Was he also just very clearly trying to be confident in himself? Yes.

One of the most harmless comments possible.

I like to argue with you , PGs, but you are 100% right here. :-[
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 26, 2021, 08:05:46 PM
Philly better find a trade for Ben Simmons or Doc could be out of job relatively soon. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 26, 2021, 10:15:47 PM
The Spurs may be the worst team in the league.  I'm curious if Pop goes through the session? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on October 26, 2021, 10:26:31 PM
The Spurs may be the worst team in the league.  I'm curious if Pop goes through the session?

And they still almost beat the lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 26, 2021, 10:35:58 PM
And they still almost beat the lakers.

They should have won although Lebron didn't play.  They missed all 7 free throws in the 4Q.  That's honestly a terrible basketball team and going nowhere. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 27, 2021, 12:09:33 AM
Ja Morant is good player, but at this point I wouldn't say he's top 20.  I'd say 30-40 but rising.

Luka is top 10. Trae Young top 20 based on last year but could go either up or down a little.

Herro maybe top 200.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on October 27, 2021, 12:18:38 AM
Ja Morant is good player, but at this point I wouldn't say he's top 20.  I'd say 30-40 but rising.

Luka is top 10. Trae Young top 20 based on last year but could go either up or down a little.

Herro maybe top 200.

I’d take Ja over Trae Young 6 days a week and twice on Sundays.  Better size, better rebounder, more athletic, and while he’s not known as a shooter, he’s got just as good of an eFG as Young and isn’t that far behind him in 3P shooting.  Way higher ceiling IMO.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 27, 2021, 12:41:22 AM
I’d take Ja over Trae Young 6 days a week and twice on Sundays.  Better size, better rebounder, more athletic, and while he’s not known as a shooter, he’s got just as good of an eFG as Young and isn’t that far behind him in 3P shooting.  Way higher ceiling IMO.

Young definitely has his flaws. Streaky shooter and bad defender. But Morant hasn't been much of a defender either and his career rebounding rate of 6.5% barely edges Young's 6.3%.

Young gets the edge in assist rate 43.7% to 34.4% and O rating 113 to 109. Right, Young is just a bit better.  Sure, Morant could pass him up. Ja definitely has better athletic tools than Trae.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 27, 2021, 06:36:25 AM
Trae is awesome. He is as important to the Hawks as Harden was to the Rockets, pre and post CP3. Yes, the Hawks have a collection of good young talent around him. But if you take him off the Hawks and replace him with an average PG they are fighting to make the play in tournament. He makes absolutely everything happen for them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on October 27, 2021, 06:57:14 AM
Ja Morant is good player, but at this point I wouldn't say he's top 20.  I'd say 30-40 but rising.

Luka is top 10. Trae Young top 20 based on last year but could go either up or down a little.

Herro maybe top 200.

Maybe top 200 lol.

He’s very, very easily in the top 100
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 27, 2021, 09:16:04 AM
Maybe top 200 lol.

He’s very, very easily in the top 100

Herro's advanced stat rankings from 2020-21:

Win Shares
T-230

WS/48
158

Box Plus/Minus
T-141

Value Over Replacement Player
T-213

I know advanced stats aren't everything, but those rankings make it hard for me to rank Herro in the top 100.

I'd lump him somewhere in the 150-250 range.  But I haven't ranked players that deep, so I can't tell you exactly where I'd rank Herro.

Herro has the upside to move up the rankings, but he needs to become more consistent first.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on October 27, 2021, 10:35:19 AM
Maybe top 200 lol.

He’s very, very easily in the top 100

In his own mind only.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 27, 2021, 10:47:02 AM
I might be wrong, but I very much doubt Herro will be signing his second contract with the Heat unless it is part of a sign and trade.  Butler, Bam and Lowery are their core.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 27, 2021, 10:53:05 AM
I might be wrong, but I very much doubt Herro will be signing his second contract with the Heat unless it is part of a sign and trade.  Butler, Bam and Lowery are their core.

And they just paid Duncan $90M (lol).  Imagine what Novak would get paid right now if he were in his prime).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 27, 2021, 09:08:32 PM
Is my phone accurate?  The Bucks are down big to the T-Wolves?  In Milwaukee?  WTH?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 27, 2021, 09:16:38 PM
Is my phone accurate?  The Bucks are down big to the T-Wolves?  In Milwaukee?  WTH?

Brook and Holiday aren’t playing. Middleton and Pat a combined 3-14 from 3. They are going to have a lot of weird results as they ease into the season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 27, 2021, 09:24:22 PM
Brook and Holiday aren’t playing. Middleton and Pat a combined 3-14 from 3. They are going to have a lot of weird results as they ease into the season.

Ya.  It looks like Giannis got zero help. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 27, 2021, 09:34:33 PM
At least the Lakers lost to OKC after being up 70-44.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on October 27, 2021, 10:17:59 PM
At least the Lakers lost to OKC after being up 70-44.  :)

Westbrook with the rare quadruple double.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 27, 2021, 10:26:10 PM
Westbrook with the rare quadruple double.

10 turns sort of negates the other stats.  Whoops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on October 27, 2021, 11:53:11 PM
Brook and Holiday aren’t playing. Middleton and Pat a combined 3-14 from 3. They are going to have a lot of weird results as they ease into the season.

Wolves aren’t half bad either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 28, 2021, 05:58:57 AM
Is my phone accurate?  The Bucks are down big to the T-Wolves?  In Milwaukee?  WTH?

I mean..it’s game five of an 82 game season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 28, 2021, 07:52:37 AM
I mean..it’s game five of an 82 game season.

Yes, but you need to be prepared and ready to play. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 28, 2021, 08:11:36 AM
Yes, but you need to be prepared and ready to play.

They have guys who are getting older that have nagging injuries coming off of the shortest offseason in the modern NBA era.  They're going to sit guys at the expense of wins early in the season.  Second half of the season they'll ramp everything up, try to position themselves for a good seed, and be healthy and prepared for a run at a repeat.

The Bucks won't win many games with both Jrue and Brook (or any 2 of Jrue, Khris, Giannis, Brook) out.  Especially against decent teams like the Heat and Timberwolves.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 28, 2021, 09:02:08 AM
The Bucks Twitter account is hinting at bringing back the Irish rainbow uniforms.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 28, 2021, 10:15:52 AM
Yes, but you need to be prepared and ready to play. 

OK coach.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on October 28, 2021, 11:07:46 AM
The Bucks Twitter account is hinting at bringing back the Irish rainbow uniforms.

They had one showing the shorts from the last championship. I think their alternates this year will have a combination of throwbacks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 28, 2021, 11:16:50 AM
They had one showing the shorts from the last championship. I think their alternates this year will have a combination of throwbacks.

Yeah I actually thought of that after my post.  I think they showed the deer logo in the corner of the shorts.  That'd be a good combination if you have the Irish rainbow along the sides and the deer logo on the shorts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 28, 2021, 02:51:52 PM
They have guys who are getting older that have nagging injuries coming off of the shortest offseason in the modern NBA era.  They're going to sit guys at the expense of wins early in the season.  Second half of the season they'll ramp everything up, try to position themselves for a good seed, and be healthy and prepared for a run at a repeat.

The Bucks won't win many games with both Jrue and Brook (or any 2 of Jrue, Khris, Giannis, Brook) out.  Especially against decent teams like the Heat and Timberwolves.

Yeah, there are enough games where for the most part, the flukes will work themselves out (Assuming no major injuries). I think it kinda makes me more interested to watch matchups early on because you can have a cruddy young team take it to a powerhouse. But I understand that isn't for everyone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 28, 2021, 02:52:11 PM
Evan Mobley looking like a defensive stud.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 28, 2021, 02:57:04 PM
Evan Mobley looking like a defensive stud.

FIFY
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 28, 2021, 03:00:57 PM
Fair
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 28, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
The Lakers may very well have gotten fleeced on the Westbrook trade.  Kuzma, KCP, and Harrell are all starting and playing well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on October 28, 2021, 08:29:20 PM
The Lakers may very well have gotten fleeced on the Westbrook trade.  Kuzma, KCP, and Harrell are all starting and playing well.

They got fleeced just by adding Westbrook.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 28, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
They got fleeced just by adding Westbrook.

Ha!  Touche. Don't like the fit at all.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on October 28, 2021, 08:34:37 PM
The Lakers may very well have gotten fleeced on the Westbrook trade.  Kuzma, KCP, and Harrell are all starting and playing well.

The Lakers (GM Lebron) have not came out well on a lot of their trades. Harrell is looking real good. KCP is playing well with a ton of potential, and Kuzma is a solid player. Brandon Ingram is a stud right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on October 28, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
The Lakers (GM Lebron) have not came out well on a lot of their trades. Harrell is looking real good. KCP is playing well with a ton of potential, and Kuzma is a solid player. Brandon Ingram is a stud right now.

There are obviously a lot of things Westbrook does really well.  In particular he can push the ball.  However, the Lakers are old and I'm not sure an increased tempo helps them when you look at the defensive end.  I think the thought was Westbrook could carry the 2nd unit and also take over if Lebron or Davis get hurt.  I'm just not sure he's that kind of a player despite decent scoring numbers over the years.  He's a high volume guy that needs the ball in his hands.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on October 29, 2021, 01:34:40 PM
Bulls' Patrick Williams out for the year with a dislocated wrist.
Ugh
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on October 30, 2021, 09:39:12 PM
Ja Morant is good player, but at this point I wouldn't say he's top 20.  I'd say 30-40 but rising.

Luka is top 10. Trae Young top 20 based on last year but could go either up or down a little.

Herro maybe top 200.

I don’t think that is going to age well this season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 31, 2021, 07:29:32 AM
I don’t think that is going to age well this season.

I reserve the right to change my rankings as new information becomes available.

If Herro can sustain the level of play he's had the first 6 games for a whole season, then he'll move way up my rankings.

Based on his first two seasons though, I he's probably around 180.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on October 31, 2021, 09:23:40 AM
Herro is a good NBA player. He was the #13 pick in the 2019 draft, and he’s in an outstanding organization where he is surrounded by excellent coaching and good teammates.

He’s done about what he should have so far. We’ll see if he goes on to be more than that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 01, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Herro is a good NBA player. He was the #13 pick in the 2019 draft, and he’s in an outstanding organization where he is surrounded by excellent coaching and good teammates.

He’s done about what he should have so far. We’ll see if he goes on to be more than that.

He locked up Ja Morant and went on a tear offensively. Ja couldn't do anything about it, it was wonderful to watch.

Someone is going to max him next year, and the Heat will have to go way over cap to keep him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
He locked up Ja Morant and went on a tear offensively. Ja couldn't do anything about it, it was wonderful to watch.

No wonder Joey didn't want to play with him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 01, 2021, 04:20:11 PM
Someone is going to max him next year

Someone is going to regret that, and it won't be the Heat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 01, 2021, 09:14:11 PM
This Bulls team is going to be a big problem for teams in the Eastern Conference this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 01, 2021, 10:13:49 PM
This Bulls team is going to be a big problem for teams in the Eastern Conference this year.

Maybe. But their wins are against the Pistons (x2), Pels, Raptors, C’s, and Jazz. The Jazz are good. The rest are utter garbage. I’d be pretty surprised if they make it out of the first round.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 01, 2021, 10:34:33 PM
Maybe. But their wins are against the Pistons (x2), Pels, Raptors, C’s, and Jazz. The Jazz are good. The rest are utter garbage. I’d be pretty surprised if they make it out of the first round.

Their sole loss is a one point loss to a good/decent Knicks team. Many consider the Jazz to be a top 3 team in the West. They’re not going to be perfect, but they’re going to be tough to deal with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 02, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Speaking of the Bulls, appears Pippen is broke again as he's trying to hawk his book with a bunch of nonsense.

"MJ would have never become a star if not for me"...4 All Star appearances, an MVP, and 3 ALL NBA teams before you ever started a game, but ok Scottie.

"the media he believed disliked him simply because he wasn't Michael Jordan"...ok sure, just like Kukoc took a shot over you cause of racism.

"“For once it was nice to win something of my own instead of watching Michael walk off with another trophy"...they almost missed the playoffs when you were the man, until MJ came back

He also said he and MJ were never friends.  Can't imagine why when you didn't offer condolences to your teammate of 5+ years when his dad was murdered.  But sure Scottie, you're just a great dude and a victim.

MJ's an pretty boy, a lunatic, and ruthless but never really tried to pretend otherwise.  We all know that, but No Tippin Pippen has always been a douche but needs to blame everyone else for it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 02, 2021, 01:06:49 PM
Speaking of the Bulls, appears Pippen is broke again as he's trying to hawk his book with a bunch of nonsense.

"MJ would have never become a star if not for me"...4 All Star appearances, an MVP, and 3 ALL NBA teams before you ever started a game, but ok Scottie.

"the media he believed disliked him simply because he wasn't Michael Jordan"...ok sure, just like Kukoc took a shot over you cause of racism.

"“For once it was nice to win something of my own instead of watching Michael walk off with another trophy"...they almost missed the playoffs when you were the man, until MJ came back

He also said he and MJ were never friends.  Can't imagine why when you didn't offer condolences to your teammate of 5+ years when his dad was murdered.  But sure Scottie, you're just a great dude and a victim.

MJ's an pretty boy, a lunatic, and ruthless but never really tried to pretend otherwise.  We all know that, but No Tippin Pippen has always been a douche but needs to blame everyone else for it.

(https://i.giphy.com/media/xThta9b5IQSPT6fofS/giphy.webp)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 02, 2021, 02:02:01 PM
Speaking of the Bulls, appears Pippen is broke again as he's trying to hawk his book with a bunch of nonsense.
.

"“For once it was nice to win something of my own instead of watching Michael walk off with another trophy"...they almost missed the playoffs when you were the man, until MJ came back
.

Hey, lay off Pip. Look at the titles he led Portland to, especially in 2000 with a 15 point lead with 10 minutes left in the game and Scottie came though clutch with 10 points on 3-12 shooting.  Clutch all the way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 02, 2021, 04:48:02 PM
Herro has his chance against Luka tonight...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on November 02, 2021, 04:49:11 PM
Does Luka live on the second floor?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 02, 2021, 07:56:06 PM
The Pistons are impressively bad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on November 02, 2021, 08:13:09 PM
The Pistons are impressively bad.

Cade Cunningham has not figured out the objective of NBA basketball yet
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 02, 2021, 08:26:37 PM
Does Luka live on the second floor?

I had to google this. You're very clever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on November 02, 2021, 08:49:28 PM
Herro has his chance against Luka tonight...

Luka out scored him. Tyler must be so sad about that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 02, 2021, 09:13:47 PM
Luka out scored him. Tyler must be so sad about that.

Tyler the highest scorer on the Heat, maybe he should be in the MVP conversations instead of MIP?

Glad to see that Jason Kidd is still out there being a bad coach.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 02, 2021, 09:49:01 PM
Really sad day in the NBA. EJ (and his family) seems like a genuinely great human being.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1455673329680109575?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1455673329680109575%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3295350365770419369.ampproject.net%2F2110212130002%2Fframe.html
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 02, 2021, 10:57:53 PM
Terrible news.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 02, 2021, 11:04:36 PM
Say what you want about Herro but the guy has been excellent to start the season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on November 02, 2021, 11:43:59 PM
Say what you want about Herro but the guy has been excellent to start the season.

Agreed. He's been superb.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on November 03, 2021, 08:22:25 AM
Stolen from the twitterverse:

Career NBA Finals Appearances:
Tyler Herro 1
Luka Doncic 0
Trae Young 0
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 03, 2021, 08:35:17 AM
Stolen from the twitterverse:

Career NBA Finals Appearances:
Tyler Herro 1
Luka Doncic 0
Trae Young 0

If there is one thing I learned on scoop, this means Herro is better than Doncic and Young
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 03, 2021, 08:35:54 AM
Someone else having a nice third year: Jalen Brunson. He fell off my radar but he was a lot of fun to watch last night, driving hard and making tough shots in the lane. Probably helps that he absolutely went off against the Heat.

Gotta root for those Big East guys
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 03, 2021, 08:37:54 AM
Stolen from the twitterverse:

Career NBA Finals Appearances:
Tyler Herro 1
Luka Doncic 0
Trae Young 0

And Robert Horry is a top 10 player of all time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on November 03, 2021, 12:52:34 PM
Someone else having a nice third year: Jalen Brunson. He fell off my radar but he was a lot of fun to watch last night, driving hard and making tough shots in the lane. Probably helps that he absolutely went off against the Heat.

Gotta root for those Big East guys

That caught me by surprise to. Was watching initially without sound. I was like, who is that guy????? Yeah, hard to cheer against Nova guys. Some of the other BEast players however......
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 03, 2021, 04:55:20 PM
Herro is a talented kid. Let’s see what he does over the course of an extended length of time.

Lots of young guys who might not be considered top 100 are having very good early seasons.

For example, folks should go to the googles and check out what Miles Bridges has been doing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 03, 2021, 08:17:45 PM
And Robert Horry is a top 10 player of all time.

You want to talk about elite players all time. Gene Guarilia won an NBA championship every single season he played. Went 4 for 4. It took Lebron 16 seasons to match him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 03, 2021, 08:31:27 PM
Durant is the most unguardable player I have seen in my lifetime.  I'm not sure where you slot him historically but as a pure scorer?  I think he may be #1.  Remember he's always played on teams with other stars and players that take a bunch of shots.  Truthfully, I think he could average 50 in his sleep if he was a high volume shooter.  There's literally no way to guard the guy and what's crazier is he doesn't really dominate the paint.  He gets any shot he wants at will so when he has a bad game it's simply a bad shooting night for him. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on November 03, 2021, 10:49:47 PM
Durant is the most unguardable player I have seen in my lifetime.  I'm not sure where you slot him historically but as a pure scorer?  I think he may be #1.  Remember he's always played on teams with other stars and players that take a bunch of shots.  Truthfully, I think he could average 50 in his sleep if he was a high volume shooter.  There's literally no way to guard the guy and what's crazier is he doesn't really dominate the paint.  He gets any shot he wants at will so when he has a bad game it's simply a bad shooting night for him. 

Throw a taller guard with fast hands straight up on Durant. He will get some, but not enough. Limit his ability to pass out of that, you’ll win a series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 03, 2021, 11:53:45 PM
Durant is the most unguardable player I have seen in my lifetime.  I'm not sure where you slot him historically but as a pure scorer?  I think he may be #1. 

That Jordan kid was pretty good. Never needed a "load management" game off, either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 04, 2021, 12:03:54 AM
That Jordan kid was pretty good. Never needed a "load management" game off, either.

True dat.  Jordam could attack the rim at a much higher level.  At the same time Durant is a legit 6'11 with unlimited range.  He is an incredible pure shooter and can square up and fire from pretty much any spot on the floor. 

My take is (and I'm from Chi) that Durant in this era has a slight advantage with his range and size. I just think it's physically easier for him to get a quality look.  He's only had one season where he's taken more than 20 FGA's. 

The guy could average 50 is all I'm saying but maybe MJ could too in this era?  Combine their skills and we're looking at 70 ppg, 62%, 73% efg, and a barrage of buckets.  There would be no way to gameplan vs a player at that level.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 04, 2021, 07:00:12 AM
True dat.  Jordam could attack the rim at a much higher level.  At the same time Durant is a legit 6'11 with unlimited range.  He is an incredible pure shooter and can square up and fire from pretty much any spot on the floor. 

My take is (and I'm from Chi) that Durant in this era has a slight advantage with his range and size. I just think it's physically easier for him to get a quality look.  He's only had one season where he's taken more than 20 FGA's. 

The guy could average 50 is all I'm saying but maybe MJ could too in this era?  Combine their skills and we're looking at 70 ppg, 62%, 73% efg, and a barrage of buckets.  There would be no way to gameplan vs a player at that level.

Durant's a hell of a player. I'm not gonna tear him down to make the case for Michael or anyone else. I respect the way he lets a game come to him, and also that he has worked hard to become a good defensive player.

I will say that Jordan could easily average 40 with today's rules, and he was one of the best defensive players of his time. I'm also 100% certain he'd have made himself into a terrific 3-point shooter.

Couldn't have gone wrong with either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 04, 2021, 08:27:11 AM
Durant's a hell of a player. I'm not gonna tear him down to make the case for Michael or anyone else. I respect the way he lets a game come to him, and also that he has worked hard to become a good defensive player.

I will say that Jordan could easily average 40 with today's rules, and he was one of the best defensive players of his time. I'm also 100% certain he'd have made himself into a terrific 3-point shooter.

Couldn't have gone wrong with either.

I'm not saying Durant is better, he's not.  I'm specifically talking about scoring ability.  But I'm sure Jordan would have become a competent three point shooter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 04, 2021, 09:12:57 AM
Jordan's not scoring 40 in this era unless he really developed his outside shot.  This idea that players back then would dominate today's NBA is a lot of nostalgia and wishful thinking.  You have way more length and rim protection now than you did back then, and the advent of more zone type schemes means that the isolations that MJ used to feast on aren't going to happen.

As for Durant, I would take him over the likes of Larry Bird every day of the week.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 04, 2021, 09:36:02 AM
Jordan's not scoring 40 in this era unless he really developed his outside shot.  This idea that players back then would dominate today's NBA is a lot of nostalgia and wishful thinking.  You have way more length and rim protection now than you did back then, and the advent of more zone type schemes means that the isolations that MJ used to feast on aren't going to happen.

As for Durant, I would take him over the likes of Larry Bird every day of the week.

Most experts I've seen say 100% the opposite of what you state, and that the new rules would favor players like Jordan, specifically more freedom of movement, no hand checks, and less physicality allowed for on ball pressure. The idea of "more rim protection" now is a joke.

Regarding best pure scorers of all time, I was thinking about this recently. Two who are definitely at the top are:

Jordan
Kobe

They were two players who when they wanted to, were unstoppable. When Jordan was pissed, he'd put up 30+ in a half despite double teams just to prove a point.

Kobe was similar, just go look at his 81 point game.

Others I'd throw on a similar list, Bird and Curry. Both when they wanted to could basically put up as many points as they wanted. Bird put up 47 playing left handed just to prove a point.

Obviously there are others on the list too, these are just ones that really stand out to me of having this switch, that when they wanted to dominate, were unstoppable.

Durant is a great player and scorer, and he is up there on the list, but he's not at the top and not sure where I'd ultimately put him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 04, 2021, 10:15:02 AM
With all respect to MJ, Im as big of an MJ fan as you can be, and the sheer force of will that was Kobe, Durant is just an alien.  He's literally the kind of player you'd create in NBA2K with all sliders unlocked.  He's arguably a top 10 shooter of all time, plus he's basically 7 feet tall.  He can get you off the dribble, he can go to the rim aggressively, he has unlimited range, he's unbelievably unique.

MJ and Kobe had craftiness, Durant doesn't have as much because he doesn't need it.  He can rise above basically anyone and has enough quickness and handle to blow by you if you get chest to chest with him.

I'm not silly enough to say Bird wouldn't be as successful in the current era, but I do wonder how much his lack of athleticism would hurt him.  When I watch his highlight packages, beyond his skill and creativity, I'm always struck by the almost loping speed and nature of some of his drives and moves.  He'd adapt obviously, but I think he'd need more of the crafty old man YMCA game that Jokic plays with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 04, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
As far as Kobe over Durant as a scorer I don't really see it. Especially from a consistency and efficiency standpoint.  Now when Kobe got hot there was nobody quite like him.  He could explode and make shots with guys draped all over him unlike anyone else.  At the same time you might want to look at Kevin Durant's career stats. 

The thing with Durant, unlike other scorers, is it literally looks effortless.  He can elevate and shoot and it's like Cancel Christmas.  He also is very skilled creating off the dribble and of course can spot up and splash nets.  He cannot attack and get to the line like Kobe or MJ, but you very rarely watch him and think that was a bad shot.  I think some of you are underestimating his advantage to get a quality look at will with zero strain whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 04, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
During most of Jordan's career, defenders were allowed to stiff-arm, grab and body the guys they guarded ... and Jordan still had seasons in which he averaged 37, 35, 34, 33, etc. To suggest that in this much-less-physical era, when teams average 110 points and freedom of movement is relatively easy, Jordan wouldn't have been even more unstoppable ... that seems kind of silly.

I mean, DeRozan averages 27 basically as MJ Lite. I think MJ Classic would have added at least 10 points to that.

Jordan's career 3-point pct was 33%. He shot 35.6% in the playoffs during the championship era. During the 1995-96 season, he shot 43%. And he did that all without him ever making it a point of emphasis. I can't believe folks think he couldn't have been an upper-30s-percent shooter from behind the arc. Kemba Walker was a lousy 3-point shooter, made the arc a point of emphasis, and has been a 38% 3-point shooter since the start of the 2015-16 season. But Jordan couldn't have improved by 5%? Really?

I'm not saying he'd automatically be a 40% distance shooter. He wouldn't need to be. Among those who are sub-40s career 3-point shooters: Durant, Doncic, Booker, Irving, Tatum, George, DeRozan, Leonard, etc, etc, etc. Doncic's 3-point percentage is a tick lower than MJ's was during his 13 years with the Bulls.

As for Bird, he'd probably be one of the half-dozen best 3-point shooters in the league now and a perennial All-Star. He's a taller, more talented Doncic. I'm not saying he'd "dominate." I'm saying he'd be a max-contract superstar and deserving every penny.

Again, I'm not gonna say anything bad about Durant because there's no need to. Of Durant and MJ, one is an incredible player, the other is the best ever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 04, 2021, 11:22:00 AM
MJ was the best of his era. I would also argue that compared to all the best players of the different eras, Jordan was the most dominant in his era by a significant margin.

That's all I'm really comfortable saying definitively. Comparing players between eras just doesn't work. Game is too different. There is no way to know how or if Jordan would have adjusted in today's game. And while the game is less physical than his era, the athletes in the modern era are bigger, faster, and stronger than they were in Jordan's era and the coaches understand the game better.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 04, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Here’s the difference between MJ and everyone else.

Physically, Durant was built to score a basketball. Tall, quick, long wing span and can shoot the ball really well.

The thing that made Jordan, Jordan was his ability to flip a switch in his head and be, well, MJ. I can’t think of a single player that has had the ability to kick it up to another gear where they are untouchable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on November 04, 2021, 01:53:42 PM
Most experts I've seen say 100% the opposite of what you state, and that the new rules would favor players like Jordan, specifically more freedom of movement, no hand checks, and less physicality allowed for on ball pressure. The idea of "more rim protection" now is a joke.

Regarding best pure scorers of all time, I was thinking about this recently. Two who are definitely at the top are:

Jordan
Kobe

They were two players who when they wanted to, were unstoppable. When Jordan was pissed, he'd put up 30+ in a half despite double teams just to prove a point.

Kobe was similar, just go look at his 81 point game.

Others I'd throw on a similar list, Bird and Curry. Both when they wanted to could basically put up as many points as they wanted. Bird put up 47 playing left handed just to prove a point.

Obviously there are others on the list too, these are just ones that really stand out to me of having this switch, that when they wanted to dominate, were unstoppable.

Durant is a great player and scorer, and he is up there on the list, but he's not at the top and not sure where I'd ultimately put him.

Dude

Durant is a far more dominant scorer than Kobe.

Kobe wasn’t even a great outside shooter. Durant is along with having the size to score any way possible in the paint.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 04, 2021, 02:38:35 PM
My top 20 all-time players in no particular order:

Jordan
Jabbar
Lebron
Duncan
Bird
Durant
Magic
Wilt
Oscar
Curry
Baylor
Bryant
West
Russell
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
Nowitzki or Wade
Isiah
Antetokounmpo
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 04, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
MJ was the best of his era. I would also argue that compared to all the best players of the different eras, Jordan was the most dominant in his era by a significant margin.

That's all I'm really comfortable saying definitively. Comparing players between eras just doesn't work. Game is too different. There is no way to know how or if Jordan would have adjusted in today's game. And while the game is less physical than his era, the athletes in the modern era are bigger, faster, and stronger than they were in Jordan's era and the coaches understand the game better.

Yep. Too many comments here about past players are based on legend more than reality.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 04, 2021, 03:34:48 PM
Others I'd throw on a similar list, Bird and Curry. Both when they wanted to could basically put up as many points as they wanted. Bird put up 47 playing left handed just to prove a point.


Yet Bird only was top 20 in FG% once in his career.  Again, a lot of legendary statements that don't match up with reality.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 04, 2021, 11:18:08 PM
MJ was the best of his era. I would also argue that compared to all the best players of the different eras, Jordan was the most dominant in his era by a significant margin.

That's all I'm really comfortable saying definitively. Comparing players between eras just doesn't work. Game is too different. There is no way to know how or if Jordan would have adjusted in today's game. And while the game is less physical than his era, the athletes in the modern era are bigger, faster, and stronger than they were in Jordan's era and the coaches understand the game better.

I have absolutely no doubt that Jordan in his prime would be the best player now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 05, 2021, 12:57:54 AM
I have absolutely no doubt that Jordan in his prime would be the best player now.

James Harden is a 6 time All-NBA first team and won an MVP.  MJ is similar in size, much more athletic, and had way more of sociopathic will, more like NEED, to win.  Harden isn't Curry, but he's a career 35-36% shooter from deep and is thought of as dangerous from behind the arc.  MJ was a career 33% 3P shooter.  He would be just fine in that regard.  I have no doubt MJ could guard to the level of an Jrue Holiday, Eric Bledsoe, Danny Green, Klay Thompson, or other guards that were 1st or 2nd team All Defense in the last few years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 08:23:27 AM
I have absolutely no doubt that Jordan in his prime would be the best player now.

He might be.  He might just be one of the best.  But that's not the take you originally had.


I will say that Jordan could easily average 40 with today's rules,

This is a ridiculous statement.  The only time Jordan even came close to this was early in his career when he had no one else around him in 1987-88 and 88-89.  And those weren't the lock down defensive years of the 1990s - the average PPG for an NBA game was just under what it is now.  And FG% was higher.

1980s NBA was hardly the defensive masterpiece you are making it out to be. 


That Jordan kid was pretty good. Never needed a "load management" game off, either.

So very meatbally.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 05, 2021, 09:30:51 AM
He might be.  He might just be one of the best.  But that's not the take you originally had.

It's the exact take I've always had.

This is a ridiculous statement.  The only time Jordan even came close to this was early in his career when he had no one else around him in 1987-88 and 88-89.  And those weren't the lock down defensive years of the 1990s - the average PPG for an NBA game was just under what it is now.  And FG% was higher.

1980s NBA was hardly the defensive masterpiece you are making it out to be. 

Some of this is valid criticism. My claim that he could "easily average 40" was unnecessary exaggeration. PPG were similar in the late-80s, and Jordan certainly didn't have much talent around him when he was scoring 35-37 ppg.

But the latter fact also meant he was the focus of every single defense; there were no other Bulls players worth defending. That he scored 37 ppg while often being double-teamed and rarely being left alone is pretty incredible IMHO. And even after Pippen, Grant and others started to mature, the Pistons created a template for beating the Bulls by instituting "The Jordan Rules" -- basically, they mugged him at every turn.

So very meatbally.

So very dismissive, smug, ignorant of facts and name-cally.

Jordan, who famously played all-out all the time on both ends of the court, played full 82-game seasons 9 times in his career -- including all 3 seasons after coming out of retirement the first time, when he also played full postseason slates. He had 3 other seasons in which he played at least 78 games. (Otherwise, he had two years with serious injuries and the partial season after returning from baseball.) At age 39, in his final season, he averaged 37 mpg while playing all 82 games for the Wizards. He was both an incredible gamer and one who knew that NBA fans paid good money to see him, and he took that responsibility seriously.

So yes, he neither needed nor wanted "load management" games off. Just because you don't like a point doesn't mean it's not valid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
So yes, he neither needed nor wanted "load management" games off. Just because you don't like a point doesn't mean it's not valid.

He may not have *wanted* it, but you can't claim he didn't *need* it.  You have no idea if he would have been better off playing a handful less games a season.

I tend to think modern athletic training is a little more advanced than it was in his day in that regard.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 05, 2021, 10:29:44 AM
He may not have *wanted* it, but you can't claim he didn't *need* it.  You have no idea if he would have been better off playing a handful less games a season.

I tend to think modern athletic training is a little more advanced than it was in his day in that regard.

Maybe you're right. Maybe the extra rest would have pushed him over 40 ppg after all!

But seriously, Jordan knew he had a responsibility to show up and play -- and the NBA knew it, too. He was gonna sit out the Bulls' first exhibition game in Dayton in 1995 -- his first preseason after coming out of retirement -- but Stern "strongly suggested" to the Bulls that Jordan play. So Jordan played in a game that was meaningless to everybody except the Dayton fans who sold out the arena and chanted his name.

In fact, the only game Jordan missed from March 1995 (after he came back from baseball) to June 1998 was the Bulls’ sixth preseason game in 1997-98 (due to ingrown toenails having just been surgically removed).

So from age 32-35, Jordan played in 357 of 358 games -- 263 of 263 regular-season games, 3 of 3 All-Star Games, 68 of 68 postseason games, and 23 of 24 preseason games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 10:35:26 AM
Yeah, I just don't think any particular player has that obligation either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
Yeah, I just don't think any particular player has that obligation either.

People pay big $$$ to see stars play. They have to buy tickets far in advance to get good seats. Players are paid for every game.

They should feel obligated. They owe at least an effort to play when scheduled to the game that has made them rich beyond belief.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 01:21:54 PM
They buy tickets to an NBA game.  If a player is sitting due to injury or just needing rest, that is fine.  Individually they don't owe me anything. 

I would rather have my teams healthy for the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 05, 2021, 01:31:55 PM
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 05, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
[quot e author=MU82 link=topic=62123.msg1381082#msg1381082 date=1636137115]
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!
[/quote]

Nope.  Maybe the NY Philharmonic where the lead violinist or other soloist decides to sit out and ice their hand.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 01:35:50 PM
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!


Of course that's not the same thing, but understudies can take the place of stars on Broadway and you are likely not due a refund.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!

Oasis did that, but it wasn't "load management" but rather "Liam is being a wanker and Noel knocked him out pre-show."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2021, 01:52:11 PM
They buy tickets to an NBA game.  If a player is sitting due to injury or just needing rest, that is fine.  Individually they don't owe me anything. 

I would rather have my teams healthy for the playoffs.

Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 02:01:14 PM
Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups.

Then don't go.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on November 05, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
Then don't go.
You should do marketing for the NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 02:12:11 PM
You should do marketing for the NBA.


If people are going to buy NBA tickets, or tickets to any sporting event, in the hopes of watching a specific player, the buyer bears the risk that the player may not play for whatever reason.  If the team feels they need a night off, that's their choice.  If a NFL doesn't play their starters in Game 17 because they have their seed locked up, that's their choice.

If someone's night is ruined because they laid down $500 to watch Lebron, then they probably shouldn't lay down $500.  But my guess is that they will go and have a fun time anyway.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 05, 2021, 04:55:45 PM
[quot e author=MU82 link=topic=62123.msg1381082#msg1381082 date=1636137115]
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!


Nope.  Maybe the NY Philharmonic where the lead violinist or other soloist decides to sit out and ice their hand.

Jordan wasn’t just the lead violinist in a 100-piece orchestra, Wags, and you know it.

He was Springsteen or Jagger or Pavarotti. He’s who people paid to see, especially after he came back from retirement.


Of course that's not the same thing, but understudies can take the place of stars on Broadway and you are likely not due a refund.

It would be like an understudy filling in for the biggest star in the biggest Broadway show — if the star was sitting out just because he didn’t feel like performing that night.

For those who paid hundreds of dollars to see the play, it would be very, very disappointing.

And I never said anything about refunds.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 04:58:31 PM
“Load management” doesn’t mean sitting just because you don’t feel like performing.

Try to keep up ok?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 05, 2021, 05:31:31 PM
Jordan wasn’t just the lead violinist in a 100-piece orchestra, Wags, and you know it.

He was Springsteen or Jagger or Pavarotti. He’s who people paid to see, especially after he came back from retirement.

But it’s still a Bulls game.  It’s a professional sports team. Even if it’s a star player, it’s still a team selling tickets and fans buying tickets for their game. Theyre not going for a one off tour show.  If Pavorotti or Bruce has an injury or sickness the show is cancelled and the tour is rescheduled or refunded.  If you bought Bulls tickets in October for a Feb game to watch MJ and he broke his leg or was suspended, they’d still play the game, life goes on.

Furthermore, sports are more than entertainment.  Organizations are trying to win titles. As Fluffy said, players aren’t sitting out cause they feel like it, it’s part of a rest strategy to give them the best chance to be rested and ready. Perform their best down the stretch.   When you go to a concert or Broadway show, it’s just entertainment. Hell, Ive been to multiple Broadways shows where a lead didn’t perform cause they needed a night off to make sure they were at their best for the duration of the run.  Theater load management!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 05, 2021, 07:32:11 PM

If people are going to buy NBA tickets, or tickets to any sporting event, in the hopes of watching a specific player, the buyer bears the risk that the player may not play for whatever reason.  If the team feels they need a night off, that's their choice.  If a NFL doesn't play their starters in Game 17 because they have their seed locked up, that's their choice.

If someone's night is ruined because they laid down $500 to watch Lebron, then they probably shouldn't lay down $500.  But my guess is that they will go and have a fun time anyway.

Yup.  The players aren't animals at the zoo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2021, 07:42:42 PM
A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 05, 2021, 07:44:21 PM
A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.

No, they get that amount because of TV contracts and advertising dollars
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 05, 2021, 07:45:31 PM
No, they get that amount because of TV contracts and advertising dollars

Yeah. Ticket sales are not where the big revenue is.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 07:45:51 PM
A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.

They mostly get it because of TV contracts set in place long before tickets are sold for the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 05, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
They mostly get it because of TV contracts set in place long before tickets are sold for the game.

Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 05, 2021, 08:05:03 PM
Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.

There’s a reason the league has made a push to get teams to load manage on non-nationally televised games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 05, 2021, 08:08:40 PM
Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.


Load management has been around for awhile.  And tickets are still sold and games are sill watched. 

Again, I would rather have Giannis healthy for the playoffs, and am not worried about some dude who shelled out $500 and junior is upset.  If you don't understand that players can miss games, then don't take the risk.

You and MU82 are tag-teaming for who can make the most illogical post.  Wonder what he will come up with now???!!!???  So excited.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 06, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
  jockstrap still going thru therapy because he missed the captain kangaroo/mr rogers double header due to a power outage
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 06, 2021, 08:05:35 AM
  jockstrap still going thru therapy because he missed the captain kangaroo/mr rogers double header due to a power outage

???
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 06, 2021, 09:39:08 AM
???

Is there a way to program your post to be an automatic response? There really is no other logical way to reply to him.

I still get a kick out of it when people try to give a logical response to his posts. As effective as if I sat my cat down on the arm of my chair to discuss my philosophy of life.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 06, 2021, 01:47:41 PM

Load management has been around for awhile.  And tickets are still sold and games are sill watched. 

Again, I would rather have Giannis healthy for the playoffs, and am not worried about some dude who shelled out $500 and junior is upset.  If you don't understand that players can miss games, then don't take the risk.

You and MU82 are tag-teaming for who can make the most illogical post.  Wonder what he will come up with now???!!!???  So excited.

I’ve said my piece. And I’m content knowing that Jordan would agree with me - ha!

As usual, the discussion veered significantly from the original topic. Welcome to Scoop!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 06, 2021, 03:44:05 PM
???

 "Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups."

sorry, i don't recall who the back-ups were for the cap'n or mr rogers(not aaron)

  re: " jockstrap still going thru therapy because he missed the captain kangaroo/mr rogers double header due to a power outage"

must i draw a picture to?




Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 06, 2021, 03:47:19 PM
"Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups."

sorry, i don't recall who the back-ups were for the cap'n or mr rogers(not aaron)

  re: " jockstrap still going thru therapy because he missed the captain kangaroo/mr rogers double header due to a power outage"

must i draw a picture to?


???
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 06, 2021, 04:03:23 PM
"Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups."

sorry, i don't recall who the back-ups were for the cap'n or mr rogers(not aaron)

  re: " jockstrap still going thru therapy because he missed the captain kangaroo/mr rogers double header due to a power outage"

must i draw a picture to?

These are way harder drugs than the laughing gas they use at dentist offices.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on November 06, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
These are way harder drugs than the laughing gas they use at dentist offices.

Great meth out on Main Street in East Troy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 06, 2021, 09:39:50 PM
Doc Rivers just got his 1000th win as a coach. Really amazing that he's the 10th all-time winningest coach!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 07, 2021, 07:07:45 AM
Doc Rivers just got his 1000th win as a coach. Really amazing that he's the 10th all-time winningest coach!

Amazing enough teams let him coach that many games
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on November 07, 2021, 07:10:21 AM
Amazing enough teams let him coach that many games

Not really.   He has won games everywhere.    And there are precious few true geniuses out there.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 07, 2021, 08:20:09 AM
Great meth out on Main Street in East Troy.

Well, that was information I did not need.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 07, 2021, 10:46:24 AM
River's 1000 win celebration with the Sixers, who happen to be #1 in the East with their win last night.

https://streamable.com/sfckoq
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on November 07, 2021, 04:13:52 PM
Well, that was information I did not need.

But will come in handy, one day.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 07, 2021, 07:38:46 PM
But will come in handy, one day.

I'm not that kind of person.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 07, 2021, 10:38:39 PM
I know that I am infuriated when my family drops over a hundred on brewers tickets and I don't get to see Corbin Burnes pitch even when he's healthy just because he pitched within the last 4 to 7 days. I mean Cy Young didn't need that kind of load management.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on November 07, 2021, 10:59:03 PM
I'm not that kind of person.

Yet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on November 08, 2021, 07:01:10 AM
Durant is the most unguardable player I have seen in my lifetime.  I'm not sure where you slot him historically but as a pure scorer?  I think he may be #1.  Remember he's always played on teams with other stars and players that take a bunch of shots.  Truthfully, I think he could average 50 in his sleep if he was a high volume shooter.  There's literally no way to guard the guy and what's crazier is he doesn't really dominate the paint.  He gets any shot he wants at will so when he has a bad game it's simply a bad shooting night for him.
The most unguardable player I have seen in my lifetime was Wilt Chamberlin. He focused on passing later in his career to try and win Championships. I remember he came out one game to show he could still score and posted 60.

 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 08, 2021, 03:29:09 PM
Good to see champions wanting to go back to the White House.  First NBA Champion at the White House since 2016.  Timing seems like a weird coincidence...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 08, 2021, 07:36:12 PM
Duz FD Joe even no da difference between a basketball and a snowball, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 08, 2021, 08:40:11 PM
Good to see champions wanting to go back to the White House.  First NBA Champion at the White House since 2016.  Timing seems like a weird coincidence...

Yeah, they’re going to a White House with an approval rating 1 point better than the previous occupant at his nadir. A White House that 70% think has us heading in the wrong direction. But they’re a White House who will never do anything to threaten the NBA’s billion $$$ deal with a country that enslaves it’s own people - so it’s all good, a’ina.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 08, 2021, 08:49:10 PM
Can we not?  Roundball plz.  We got enough Drumpf/Sleepy Joe/China/Approval ratings in a bunch of other threads.

(insert internet police gif)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 08, 2021, 09:36:38 PM
Yeah, they’re going to a White House with an approval rating 1 point better than the previous occupant at his nadir. A White House that 70% think has us heading in the wrong direction. But they’re a White House who will never do anything to threaten the NBA’s billion $$$ deal with a country that enslaves it’s own people - so it’s all good, a’ina.

I guess I was wrong. 45 hosted every champion. Apologies for my error.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 09, 2021, 10:18:13 AM
Wild scene in Denver last night with Jokic laying out Markieff Morris late in the game.  While Jokic completely overreacted and was out of line (which he owned up to), I love the attempted revisionist history which completely brushes over

1) Markieff and his brother being well known cheap shot artists, instigators, and general douchebags on the court

2) Markieff throwing a cheap shot, hip check elbow into Jokic's ribs immediately before (which Spo called a simple take foul  ::)) and then immediately turning his back and walking away pretending like it was a clean play.

Funny too that the NBA is a league of posturing and fake toughness that would rarely follow through in an actual fight, but Jokic (and his terrifying giant older brothers) are not one of those people.  Growing up outside the US, playing pro ball with adults, not AAU coddled from a young age makes you built a bit different
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 09, 2021, 10:25:01 AM
Wild scene in Denver last night with Jokic laying out Markieff Morris late in the game.  While Jokic completely overreacted and was out of line (which he owned up to), I love the attempted revisionist history which completely brushes over

1) Markieff and his brother being well known cheap shot artists, instigators, and general douchebags on the court

2) Markieff throwing a cheap shot, hip check elbow into Jokic's ribs immediately before (which Spo called a simple take foul  ::)) and then immediately turning his back and walking away pretending like it was a clean play.

Funny too that the NBA is a league of posturing and fake toughness that would rarely follow through in an actual fight, but Jokic (and his terrifying giant older brothers) are not one of those people.  Growing up outside the US, playing pro ball with adults, not AAU coddled from a young age makes you built a bit different

+1 to all of this.  The Heat think they're the toughest guys around and think they're the new hot thing in the East.  So when they're losing a game with 2 minutes left tough guy Markieff throws a cheap shot to Jokic.  It reminds me of the Seahawks teams from 5ish years ago.  Know they're going to lose the game, opponent is in the V formation, yet they're still diving at the line when any other team just accepts that they lost the game and let the clock run out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 09, 2021, 11:01:15 AM
You guys aren't talking about Jokic laying out Bam Adebayo before the Morris retaliation. I suppose you didn't watch the game. Jokic was hitting dudes in the face playing 'defense' and Morris retaliated. Dumb, but understandable.

https://twitter.com/fastbreakbreak/status/1457927131627917312

Edit: I just poked around the internet and everyone cut this part of this video out. I suppose you get more likes when you can generate more outrage.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 09, 2021, 11:09:22 AM
You guys aren't talking about Jokic laying out Bam Adebayo before the Morris retaliation. I suppose you didn't watch the game. Jokic was hitting dudes in the face playing 'defense' and Morris retaliated. Dumb, but understandable.

https://twitter.com/fastbreakbreak/status/1457927131627917312

Edit: I just poked around the internet and everyone cut this part of this video out. I suppose you get more likes when you can generate more outrage.

So because a slap across the forearm (that happens dozens of times a game) went uncalled, Markieff was retaliating in response to that?  Seems like a massive overreaction to me.  Nothing in that video shows Jokic "laying out" Bam.  It shows him hitting Bam's arm, and Bam flopping down to the ground to try to get the whistle.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 09, 2021, 11:11:27 AM
You guys aren't talking about Jokic laying out Bam Adebayo before the Morris retaliation. I suppose you didn't watch the game. Jokic was hitting dudes in the face playing 'defense' and Morris retaliated. Dumb, but understandable.

https://twitter.com/fastbreakbreak/status/1457927131627917312

Edit: I just poked around the internet and everyone cut this part of this video out. I suppose you get more likes when you can generate more outrage.

Come on man.  I thought I missed something then realized I watched the video you posted 5 times.  Was it foul on Jokic that they didn't call?  Perhaps.  But he's literally reaching for a block on a shot by Bam under the hoop.  Nowhere did he "lay him out" or in any way is that a dirty play justifying Morris to play cowboy.  Bam didn't even react, he just got up...cause it wasn't anything abnormal.

But I'm not surprised the Heat homer here is defending Morris' dumba** when nobody else other than his coach is.  It wasn't team leader Jimmy running to defend Bam.  It wasn't Bam himself.  It was noted petulant tool Morris who has a decade of NBA history being like this
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 09, 2021, 11:42:16 AM
Hitting him in the face and pulling the chair, IMO. Still, Morris is retaliating.

https://twitter.com/jeremytache/status/1458058920216436745

I think it's valuable to have some bruisers on your team that do the retaliating after a full game of face slapping from Jokic. It's nice to have guys like Morris and UD on the team to hard-foul, even though Morris is usually lost on defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 09, 2021, 12:33:28 PM
Hitting him in the face and pulling the chair, IMO. Still, Morris is retaliating.

https://twitter.com/jeremytache/status/1458058920216436745

I think it's valuable to have some bruisers on your team that do the retaliating after a full game of face slapping from Jokic. It's nice to have guys like Morris and UD on the team to hard-foul, even though Morris is usually lost on defense.

"pulling the chair"?  What are you even watching?  He didn't clear out his legs at all.  Again, that foul happens all the time, all the game.  If thats a foul justifying protection and relation from a "bruiser" like Morris, then there would be hockey fights 2-3 times a quarter.

At least you added that neutral take defending Morris from (reads)  "Bally Sports FL and Miami mic'd up".  Got it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 09, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
You guys aren't talking about Jokic laying out Bam Adebayo before the Morris retaliation. I suppose you didn't watch the game. Jokic was hitting dudes in the face playing 'defense' and Morris retaliated. Dumb, but understandable.

https://twitter.com/fastbreakbreak/status/1457927131627917312

Edit: I just poked around the internet and everyone cut this part of this video out. I suppose you get more likes when you can generate more outrage.



Stop the drama queen antics. He didn't "lay out" Bam - and it was a part of every replay that I saw. A called or uncalled foul that happens many times in every game does not give Morris the right to attack Jokic.

Morris deserved what he got (he instigated the situation) and they both should be suspended for 3 games.

Also, could you post links to the many times Jokic slapped people in the face? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 09, 2021, 03:01:48 PM
Lol. The Heat are so unlikeable.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1458080052856381449?t=w7qUrIzPVSHXIWF4CPTMpw&s=19
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 09, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Lol. The Heat are so unlikeable.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1458080052856381449?t=w7qUrIzPVSHXIWF4CPTMpw&s=19

I think this is the thing most deserving of fines and suspensions out of all of it.

Loved that Jokic didn't let Morris get away with a cheap shot. The Morris's have always played dirty.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 09, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
Lol. The Heat are so unlikeable.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1458080052856381449?t=w7qUrIzPVSHXIWF4CPTMpw&s=19

Can't wait for Inside the NBA tonight.   Its the Clippers-Rockets locker room situation 2.0 which produced some of Chuck and Shaq's best work ever.

Twitter has been hysterical with that picture.  Saying the whole Heat team was being held back by Tony Soprano or Jon Taffer
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 09, 2021, 05:18:04 PM
Lol. The Heat are so unlikeable.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1458080052856381449?t=w7qUrIzPVSHXIWF4CPTMpw&s=19

That is funny stuff.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 10, 2021, 09:19:00 PM
Are the Bulls for real?  They just moved to 8-3 and punked Dallas.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 10, 2021, 09:25:37 PM
This Bulls team is so much fun to watch. I never thought much of Caruso in LA, other than as a serviceable piece of the bench, but he’s been awesome, and what a steal at $8 million a year.

All their FA signings have been great, Ball is playing really well, DeRozan solid vet putting up numbers. It’s nice to have Bulls basketball mean something again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 10, 2021, 09:32:51 PM
This Bulls team is so much fun to watch. I never thought much of Caruso in LA, other than as a serviceable piece of the bench, but he’s been awesome, and what a steal at $8 million a year.

All their FA signings have been great, Ball is playing really well, DeRozan solid vet putting up numbers. It’s nice to have Bulls basketball mean something again.

What's their overall depth?  They seem to be solid 1-5.  It's been so long I had no expectation they would be formidable.  Nor did I think DeRozen would have this smooth transition.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on November 10, 2021, 09:35:30 PM
I was definitely wrong about Caruso, and I was bearish that DeRozen could play an efficient role in the offense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 10, 2021, 09:38:48 PM
Are the Bulls for real?  They just moved to 8-3 and punked Dallas.

The team I'm most surprised by is the Warriors. 9-1, without Klay or Wiseman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 10, 2021, 09:48:04 PM
The team I'm most surprised by is the Warriors. 9-1, without Klay or Wiseman.

I live in the Bay Area and have watched many of their games.  Curry is Curry and Poole and Lee have been a peasant surprise.  But honestly they've had a pretty soft schedule.  It's tough to gauge how they will fare in a 7 game series vs a team with a formidable front-court.  That said if Klay comes back and is the same player?  They're clearly dangerous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 10, 2021, 11:16:05 PM
Herro is no joke.  At the end of the day he gets buckets. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 10, 2021, 11:16:42 PM
Are the Bulls for real?  They just moved to 8-3 and punked Dallas.

Wins against Utah, Brooklyn and Dallas. Nothing to indicate their start is a fluke.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 10, 2021, 11:46:34 PM
Bulls are much, much, better than I thought they would be.

Thought they would be fine but struggle against better teams, but they look legitimately good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 10, 2021, 11:55:01 PM
Bulls are much, much, better than I thought they would be.

Thought they would be fine but struggle against better teams, but they look legitimately good.

Top 4 Eastern Conf good? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 11, 2021, 05:48:20 AM
Herro is no joke.  At the end of the day he gets buckets.

Plus he usually comes amazingly cheap on fanduel.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 11, 2021, 08:30:12 AM
The team I'm most surprised by is the Warriors. 9-1, without Klay or Wiseman.

Curry seemed to figure out how to win on his own last year.  He took all the heat, all the criticism and jokes about being an MVP that needed other stars.  That being said, Wiggins has been good.  Poole made the leap like Muggsy mentioned.  They also have a pretty good second unit for a change.   Bjelica, Porter, and Iggy are all nice complementary components.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 11, 2021, 08:59:53 AM
Top 4 Eastern Conf good? 

4-6 by the end of the season is my guess. The Bulls are a lot of fun to watch this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 11, 2021, 09:57:05 AM
4-6 by the end of the season is my guess. The Bulls are a lot of fun to watch this year.

That scramble for the ball leading to Lonzo firing a full court bullet outlet pass to Lavine for a 360 was just the epitome of fun basketball
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 11, 2021, 11:46:48 AM
4-6 by the end of the season is my guess. The Bulls are a lot of fun to watch this year.

Probably about right. The East is really tough this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 12, 2021, 06:43:08 PM
Woj reporting the NBA is in “advanced stages” of its investigation into tampering by the Bulls and Heat (re: Ball and Lowry sign and trades). Says they could face up to $10M fines per team, docked draft picks, and suspensions to FO employees.

I’ll believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Right after the Panthers crushed the team with the NFL's best record, the Hornets pulled off a nice win over the team with the NBA's best record.

I know that kind of thing is pretty common for Packers/Bucks fans, but its a rare double-double for Charlotte's pro teams.

Curry had a poor game (by his standards) and admitted later that he took too many difficult shots while "trying to go for daggers." But he still had 24 and 10 -- a bad game for the early-season MVP favorite.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
In things that make me chuckle, the Lakers trade the farm for Westbrook.  They cheap out on Caruso who wanted to stay and even would have taken less than he got from the Bulls....

Wizards off to their best start in 50 years.  Caruso is a key part of a resurgent Bulls team...and the Lakers hover around .500
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 16, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
In things that make me chuckle, the Lakers trade the farm for Westbrook.  They cheap out on Caruso who wanted to stay and even would have taken less than he got from the Bulls....

Wizards off to their best start in 50 years.  Caruso is a key part of a resurgent Bulls team...and the Lakers hover around .500

You hate to see it. :)

Westbrook is a team killer. What has he won?  For me, his legacy was set in game 6 of the WC Finals in 2016. The Thunder led big throughout and choked the game away as the ball stayed with Westbrook and occasionally Durant.

On Dan Patrick this morning someone mentioned a Simmons for Westbrook trade the Patrick's response was "why would the Sixers want to do that?"
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 16, 2021, 07:06:30 PM
In things that make me chuckle, the Lakers trade the farm for Westbrook.  They cheap out on Caruso who wanted to stay and even would have taken less than he got from the Bulls....

Wizards off to their best start in 50 years.  Caruso is a key part of a resurgent Bulls team...and the Lakers hover around .500

The Lakers schedule has been pretty weak, too. Watching the Lakers those old guys get tired legs playing for so long. I bet they put up plenty of poor 4th quarters, especially later in the season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 16, 2021, 08:56:59 PM
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1460609803903016964

Maybe somewhere warmer
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 09:39:07 PM
The Lakers schedule has been pretty weak, too. Watching the Lakers those old guys get tired legs playing for so long. I bet they put up plenty of poor 4th quarters, especially later in the season.

Yep.  4 of their 8 wins are against 2 of the 3 worst teams in the West.  They were a Once in a Season performance from Melo from losing to the Heat and thus being under .500 and having no wins against teams currently in the top 4 in either Conference.  Sheesh
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on November 16, 2021, 10:02:29 PM
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1460609803903016964

Maybe somewhere warmer

Now that he’s won a championship, I think the reaction would be much different if he left. I think it would have been much worse if he left summer of 2020 than now.

He strikes me as the type of guy who doesn’t want to say he will stay in Milwaukee forever and then have to walk back that statement. I respect that. I also am not too worried about the comment because it seems like he really enjoys Milwaukee and it fits in well with his lifestyle.

We will see how it goes. Now that the Bucks won, it’s much easier for me if he leaves. I do hope he stays for a long time though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2021, 11:05:23 PM
Curry had 37 tonight and it's the 37th time he's had 9 triples in a game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 11:14:35 PM
Curry had 37 tonight and it's the 37th time he's had 9 triples in a game.

The kid’s got a chance to be a decent player someday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on November 16, 2021, 11:27:27 PM
Now that he’s won a championship, I think the reaction would be much different if he left. I think it would have been much worse if he left summer of 2020 than now.

He strikes me as the type of guy who doesn’t want to say he will stay in Milwaukee forever and then have to walk back that statement. I respect that. I also am not too worried about the comment because it seems like he really enjoys Milwaukee and it fits in well with his lifestyle.

We will see how it goes. Now that the Bucks won, it’s much easier for me if he leaves. I do hope he stays for a long time though.

Agreed. The dude has done literally everything there is to do on a basketball court except build a dynasty, and he's in his mid 20s. I'd start wondering what's next too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2021, 11:32:20 PM
The kid’s got a chance to be a decent player someday.

He's slightly talented and skilled. Unlimited range.   3,000 is around the corner.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 17, 2021, 12:32:27 AM
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1460609803903016964

Maybe somewhere warmer

You know that quote isn't from Giannis right? It's a quote from his agent guessing at what Giannis' mindset might be if the Bucks were to repeat this year. The tweet purposely short quoted it
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 17, 2021, 03:37:11 AM
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1460609803903016964

Maybe somewhere warmer



Peddle his ass, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 17, 2021, 05:47:38 AM
You know that quote isn't from Giannis right? It's a quote from his agent guessing at what Giannis' mindset might be if the Bucks were to repeat this year. The tweet purposely short quoted it

Lol. Heat fans are the best.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 17, 2021, 08:03:56 AM
The kid’s got a chance to be a decent player someday.

I know this is tongue in cheek, but I think he is one of the more under appreciated players.

He's a different type of player (and for non-basketball fans less exciting), but he's the closest I think we've had to a much watch since Jordan. Where often in games he'll have everyone, including himself saying "how'd he just do that." Dunks are cooler and more exciting, but watching a guy just turn and nail a floater from 36 feet is just insane.

If not for a rash of injuries in or near the finals, he'd have 2 more rings too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2021, 08:23:22 AM
I know this is tongue in cheek, but I think he is one of the more under appreciated players.

He's a different type of player (and for non-basketball fans less exciting), but he's the closest I think we've had to a much watch since Jordan. Where often in games he'll have everyone, including himself saying "how'd he just do that." Dunks are cooler and more exciting, but watching a guy just turn and nail a floater from 36 feet is just insane.

If not for a rash of injuries in or near the finals, he'd have 2 more rings too.

I don't think he's underappreciated at all. I think just about every basketball fan considers Steph one of the 3-5 best players in the world, the greatest shooter in history and a slam-dunk first-ballot HoFer.

But yes, he's a marvel to watch. Even when he has a "bad" game (for him), as he did against the Hornets, he still makes a half-dozen plays that make you go, "Incredible!" And on top of it all, he has a genuine, almost child-like enthusiasm for basketball and for life.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2021, 08:44:39 AM
Staples Center to be renamed Crypto.com Arena, starting on Xmas.

Here's hoping this 20-year agreement plays out longer than Enron Field, CMGI Field and PSINet Stadium were able to.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 17, 2021, 12:50:34 PM
Staples Center to be renamed Crypto.com Arena, starting on Xmas.

Here's hoping this 20-year agreement plays out longer than Enron Field, CMGI Field and PSINet Stadium were able to.

LOL
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 17, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
You know that quote isn't from Giannis right? It's a quote from his agent guessing at what Giannis' mindset might be if the Bucks were to repeat this year. The tweet purposely short quoted it

What makes you believe that?

https://www.fox6now.com/sports/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-on-future-in-milwaukee-the-next-challenge-might-not-be-here

> "One challenge was to bring a championship here, and we did," Antetokounmpo said. "It was very hard, but we did. Very, very hard. I just love challenges. What’s the next challenge? The next challenge might not be here."

> Antetokounmpo added: "Me and my family chose to stay in this city that we all love and has taken care of us — for now. In two years, that might change. I’m being totally honest with you. I’m always honest. I love this city. I love this community. I want to help as much as possible."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 17, 2021, 01:27:52 PM
If he leaves, I would be sad.  But he's the best player in franchise history who brought a championship to a team I never thought would see another.  But it's his right to do so.

And it's still 3+ years away.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 17, 2021, 01:39:31 PM
If he leaves, I would be sad.  But he's the best player in franchise history who brought a championship to a team I never thought would see another.  But it's his right to do so.

And it's still 3+ years away.

Yeah.  But I love that Milwaukee is in the position that other fanbase's only joy is that Giannis had a quote that means he might come to warmer weather in 4 years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on November 17, 2021, 02:35:34 PM
If he leaves, I would be sad.  But he's the best player in franchise history who brought a championship to a team I never thought would see another.  But it's his right to do so.

And it's still 3+ years away.

His exit will coincide with Middleton's. Right now Khris has a 23-24 player option and is a UFA in 24-25.

And honestly... while I adore him, I don't know what Giannis at 30+ is gonna look like. A lot of miles on him by then, for a guy whose game is predicated on elite athleticism. It might be the most logical time to start fresh. Hopefully after another ring.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 17, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
What makes you believe that?

https://www.fox6now.com/sports/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-on-future-in-milwaukee-the-next-challenge-might-not-be-here

> "One challenge was to bring a championship here, and we did," Antetokounmpo said. "It was very hard, but we did. Very, very hard. I just love challenges. What’s the next challenge? The next challenge might not be here."

> Antetokounmpo added: "Me and my family chose to stay in this city that we all love and has taken care of us — for now. In two years, that might change. I’m being totally honest with you. I’m always honest. I love this city. I love this community. I want to help as much as possible."

I misread, my bad. I mixed up that paragraph with the paragraph immediately following it:

Quote
Did this mean he was thinking about…leaving? I asked his agent.

“I don’t think it’s, ‘I’m thinking about leaving the Bucks,’ ” Saratsis told me. “But I think he’s genuinely like: ‘Okay, I have reached the pinnacle. The next challenge is, let’s repeat.’ But what happens if you do repeat? What’s the next challenge? What is that next barrier? When you think about it from a basketball perspective, by the age of 26, this kid has accomplished everything,” Saratsis said. “So sometimes you’re going to have to manufacture what those challenges are."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 17, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
His exit will coincide with Middleton's. Right now Khris has a 23-24 player option and is a UFA in 24-25.

And honestly... while I adore him, I don't know what Giannis at 30+ is gonna look like. A lot of miles on him by then, for a guy whose game is predicated on elite athleticism. It might be the most logical time to start fresh. Hopefully after another ring.

endorse
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CTWarrior on November 17, 2021, 03:04:41 PM
If he leaves, I would be sad.  But he's the best player in franchise history who brought a championship to a team I never thought would see another.  But it's his right to do so.

And it's still 3+ years away.
Uh, Kareem says hello.  He was at his zenith as a player with the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 17, 2021, 04:44:02 PM
I misread, my bad. I mixed up that paragraph with the paragraph immediately following it:


It's all good. My intent was crapposting that tweet to get a rise out of people so it was entirely possible I was wrong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 17, 2021, 05:16:10 PM
Uh, Kareem says hello.  He was at his zenith as a player with the Bucks.


Yeah I guess. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2021, 06:40:26 PM
Although I like honesty, I don't love it when an athlete publicly proclaims that he might bolt his current team several years down the line.

I'm not outraged by it; I don't "hate" Giannis for saying it. Just seemed unnecessary. Now I just hope he doesn't get angry the 1,845th time he's asked about it over the next 4 years ... because he's the one who made it something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 17, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
Although I like honesty, I don't love it when an athlete publicly proclaims that he might bolt his current team several years down the line.

I'm not outraged by it; I don't "hate" Giannis for saying it. Just seemed unnecessary. Now I just hope he doesn't get angry the 1,845th time he's asked about it over the next 4 years ... because he's the one who made it something.

It's the only negotiating leverage players have. I think they have to pull that lever in private, and pulling it in public gets the fans to put pressure on the owners.

I honestly took his comments as him planning on tackling non-basketball challenges in the future. He's got a big platform and could try to tackle big problems.

That being said, Giannis to the Heat in exchange for Gabe Vincent and KZ Okpala.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 17, 2021, 07:43:08 PM
Giannis has 28 at the half.  12-13.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2021, 07:48:30 PM
I honestly took his comments as him planning on tackling non-basketball challenges in the future. He's got a big platform and could try to tackle big problems.

I definitely did not take it that way.

It just seemed an unnecessary thing to say on his part.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 07:08:35 AM
LaMelo Ball and Miles Bridges are the Stockton-and-Malone of today's NBA.

Not as successful for anywhere near as many years, obviously, but definitely cooler. Ball-to-Bridges for alley-oop jams are featured on Sportscenter several times a week.

The Hornets aren't anywhere near great -- the recently went 0-fer on a West Coast trip -- but they have a couple of ascending stars, they have some good supporting players and they are very entertaining on offense. When they're on, they can beat anybody, as they just proved with consecutive wins over the Western and Eastern conference leaders. Fun team to watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on November 18, 2021, 07:22:37 AM
LaMelo Ball and Miles Bridges are the Stockton-and-Malone of today's NBA.

Not as successful for anywhere near as many years, obviously, but definitely cooler. Ball-to-Bridges for alley-oop jams are featured on Sportscenter several times a week.

The Hornets aren't anywhere near great -- the recently went 0-fer on a West Coast trip -- but they have a couple of ascending stars, they have some good supporting players and they are very entertaining on offense. When they're on, they can beat anybody, as they just proved with consecutive wins over the Western and Eastern conference leaders. Fun team to watch.

It would be hard to find players more opposite of LaMelo Ball and Miles bridges than John Stockton and Karl Malone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 07:37:00 AM
It would be hard to find players more opposite of LaMelo Ball and Miles bridges than John Stockton and Karl Malone.

Yes ... stylistically very different.

As I said, Melo and Miles are definitely cooler!

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2021, 08:02:14 AM
LaMelo Ball and Miles Bridges are the Stockton-and-Malone of today's NBA.

Not as successful for anywhere near as many years, obviously, but definitely cooler. Ball-to-Bridges for alley-oop jams are featured on Sportscenter several times a week.

The Hornets aren't anywhere near great -- the recently went 0-fer on a West Coast trip -- but they have a couple of ascending stars, they have some good supporting players and they are very entertaining on offense. When they're on, they can beat anybody, as they just proved with consecutive wins over the Western and Eastern conference leaders. Fun team to watch.


So Ball and Bridges are like Stockton and Malone....although not as good, haven't played as long, on a worse team, and I bet I could count on one hand the number of alley oops they were involved in.

Great comp
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 08:11:12 AM

So Ball and Bridges are like Stockton and Malone....although not as good, haven't played as long, on a worse team, and I bet I could count on one hand the number of alley oops they were involved in.

Great comp

Thanks!

They are the Hornets' version of Stockton-to-Malone. But more fun to watch. On account of Stockton and Malone being, like, 60 years old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on November 18, 2021, 02:01:19 PM
Uh, Kareem says hello.  He was at his zenith as a player with the Bucks.

By that logic, Kawhi Leonard is the greatest player in Raptors history.

Like it or not, Kareem will always be remembered by most as a Laker. Even if Giannis never surpasses Kareem in terms of pure talent or "zenith" (still yet to be determined), he is and will be the greatest Buck of all time, in part to his dedication to the team and city for the foreseeable prime of his career.

Heat fans will tell you Wade is the GOAT Heat player for the same reason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 18, 2021, 02:06:19 PM
By that logic, Kawhi Leonard is the greatest player in Raptors history.

Like it or not, Kareem will always be remembered by most as a Laker. Even if Giannis never surpasses Kareem in terms of pure talent or "zenith" (still yet to be determined), he is and will be the greatest Buck of all time, in part to his dedication to the team and city for the foreseeable prime of his career.

Heat fans will tell you Wade is the GOAT Heat player for the same reason.

Kawhi is the greatest player in Toronto history, and it's not even close considering people think the other option is Kyle Lowry.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on November 18, 2021, 02:09:25 PM
I definitely did not take it that way.

It just seemed an unnecessary thing to say on his part.

Assuming he meant it from a basketball standpoint, if Giannis truly finds that winning championships in Milwaukee is no longer a challenge, I will gladly accept that timeline. If he wants a REAL challenge he can go join Sacramento or Minnesota after giving us 4 more rings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on November 18, 2021, 02:11:48 PM
Kawhi is the greatest player in Toronto history, and it's not even close considering people think the other option is Kyle Lowry.

Not trying to argue semantics but I would say there is a difference between "greatest" and "best".
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2021, 02:23:11 PM
Not trying to argue semantics but I would say there is a difference between "greatest" and "best".

I was using them interchangably.

Kareem played six seasons in Milwaukee.  Not a short time by any means.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 03:04:41 PM
KAREEM:

In 467 regular-season games over 6 seasons with Milwaukee, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 15.1 rpg, 4.3 apg. Blocks didn't become an official stat until his 5th season, when he averaged 3.5. He shot .547 from the floor. In the playoffs, he averaged 29,7, 16.8, 4.0 while shooting .510. He led the Bucks to the 1971 title.

GIANNIS:

In 603 regular-season games over 8+ seasons with Milwaukee, he has averaged 21.1 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 bpg while shooting .531. In the playoffs, he averaged 25.9, 11.6, 4.9 while shooting .535. He led the Bucks to the 2021 title.

I'd give the statistical edge to Kareem at this point, but Giannis almost surely will eclipse Kareem as the best Buck ever. Not sure how anybody can look at the above today, though, and say Giannis has already done so.





Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 18, 2021, 03:57:18 PM
KAREEM:

In 467 regular-season games over 6 seasons with Milwaukee, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 15.1 rpg, 4.3 apg. Blocks didn't become an official stat until his 5th season, when he averaged 3.5. He shot .547 from the floor. In the playoffs, he averaged 29,7, 16.8, 4.0 while shooting .510. He led the Bucks to the 1971 title.

GIANNIS:

In 603 regular-season games over 8+ seasons with Milwaukee, he has averaged 21.1 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 bpg while shooting .531. In the playoffs, he averaged 25.9, 11.6, 4.9 while shooting .535. He led the Bucks to the 2021 title.

I'd give the statistical edge to Kareem at this point, but Giannis almost surely will eclipse Kareem as the best Buck ever. Not sure how anybody can look at the above today, though, and say Giannis has already done so.

Agreed that Kareem is still the best Buck ever so far.  The one argument against looking just at the stats is that Kareem came in as a 22 year old who spent 4 years at college.  He averaged almost 30 points per game from the jump with the Bucks.  Giannis came in as an 18 year old coming to America for the first time ever.

If you look at Giannis's numbers from 22 years old through today, they're much closer to Kareem's than if you include those years.  But that's not perfect either, because Giannis had 3 years of NBA development at 22 years old while Kareem had only college development.

But yes, right now I'd say Kareem is the best Buck ever but as long as there isn't a serious injury in the near future for Giannis, he'll pass him up by the time his Bucks career is over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
KAREEM:

In 467 regular-season games over 6 seasons with Milwaukee, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 15.1 rpg, 4.3 apg. Blocks didn't become an official stat until his 5th season, when he averaged 3.5. He shot .547 from the floor. In the playoffs, he averaged 29,7, 16.8, 4.0 while shooting .510. He led the Bucks to the 1971 title.

GIANNIS:

In 603 regular-season games over 8+ seasons with Milwaukee, he has averaged 21.1 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 bpg while shooting .531. In the playoffs, he averaged 25.9, 11.6, 4.9 while shooting .535. He led the Bucks to the 2021 title.

I'd give the statistical edge to Kareem at this point, but Giannis almost surely will eclipse Kareem as the best Buck ever. Not sure how anybody can look at the above today, though, and say Giannis has already done so.

I would still rate Kareem as #1 in Milwaukee, as well.

But the stats are a bit misleading. Kareem came into the NBA as a fully ready superstar. GA came into the league as a project.

But even if you use GA's last 6 years to compare to Kareem, he still comes up short. That changes if GAS puts together a couple more injury-free years.

He will be the greatest Bucks player ever, but will not approach Kareem's total career. Abdul-Jabbar was a 6-time NBA MVP, a 19-time NBA All-Star, a 15-time All-NBA selection, and an 11-time NBA All-Defensive Team member. In the convo with MJ as the greatest player of all time.

BLM - you beat me by 2 minutes to say almost exactly the same thing. :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on November 18, 2021, 09:56:23 PM
Kareem also did not have the benefit of playing with 3 pointers during his time with the Bucks. It was much more of an inside game . Defenses were designed to try and stop Kareem but they couldn’t .

 He faced a steady stream of Artis Gilmore , Bob Lanier , Willis Reed , Nate Thurmand , Dave Cowens etc and dominated everyone
 .



Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 09:59:24 PM
Kareem also did not have the benefit of playing with 3 pointers during his time with the Bucks. It was much more of an inside game . Defenses were designed to try and stop Kareem but they couldn’t .

 He faced a steady stream of Artis Gilmore , Bob Lanier , Willis Reed , Nate Thurman , Dave Cowens etc and dominated everyone
 .

Good points, 9-9-9.

LISTEN, KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night! Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!

Also, Kareem probably had the single most unstoppable shot, the single most famous offensive weapon, in the history of basketball. That's a pretty cool distinction.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 18, 2021, 11:08:53 PM
Curry had nine more threes tonight.  It's only his 38th time with nine or more in a game.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on November 18, 2021, 11:35:46 PM
If Klay is Klay are the Warriors the favorites? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on November 19, 2021, 08:15:31 AM
Kareem also played when there weren't so many dominant bigs to oppose him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 19, 2021, 12:27:05 PM
Kareem also played when there weren't so many dominant bigs to oppose him.

Hmm.

Chamberlain, Reed, Thurmond, Lanier, Ewing, Gilmore, Hayes, Cowens, Unseld, Walton, Parish, Moses, Olajuwon, Cartwright, Webster, Adams, Bellamy, Sikma, Laimbeer, Eaton, Benson, Lucas, Dawkins, Duckworth, among others.

Most in that list were either dominant, great or very good. The few who weren't all that great were still big bodies who tried to lean on and/or punish Kareem.

He went against plenty of outstanding bigs ... even if few (if any) were as "dominant" as he was.

How many "dominant" players of similar size does Giannis go up against?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on November 22, 2021, 05:16:26 PM
Lebron elbows Isaiah Stewart of the Pistons aggressively and intentionally in the face, splitting his eye open.  Lebron walks away daps up his teammates after the ejection acting like he did nothing wrong and shocked that he was ejected.

Stewart is understandably pissed.  Tries to run towards the Lakers a few times, fighting through his teammates and officials.  Never gets near Lebron, throws no punches, makes no contact with anyone of note, much less a Laker.

Lebron gets a 1 game suspension.  Stewart gets double that and will sit for 2.  I love the NBA, its my favorite professional league, but what an absolute joke.  I'm honestly shocked that they suspended Lebron at all given he's missing a game at MSG.  I'm fine that they gave Stewart a suspension.  He overreacted completely.  But being punished more aggressively than the man who split his face open is just a joke.

Lakers play the Pistons again on Sunday.  Looking forward to a scheduled Lebron rest day.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 22, 2021, 05:42:48 PM
Stewart initially went after Lebron, was pulled away and said he was done, only to go after him again once people let go of him. Does he deserve more than Lebron?  I think so due to the second act.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2021, 05:44:47 PM
Stewart initially went after Lebron, was pulled away and said he was done, only to go after him again once people let go of him. Does he deserve more than Lebron?  I think so due to the second act.

Not to mention he’s spewing blood on the dozens of people getting in his way.

It was funny seeing LeBron go from trying to play pretend peace maker to letting anyone and everyone in the building take Stewart on before he could get to LeBron once Stewart realized he as bleeding and really got mad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 22, 2021, 06:23:55 PM
I only saw it once. It looked to me like LeBron initially asked Stewart if he was OK, but I certainly could be wrong.

Stewart went wild, and the scene could have been really ugly if there weren't 20 people there to hold him back. I don't have much of a problem with the suspensions. If LeBron had gotten a second game, that would have been fine, too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on November 23, 2021, 06:47:18 AM
Lebron elbows Isaiah Stewart of the Pistons aggressively and intentionally in the face, splitting his eye open.  Lebron walks away daps up his teammates after the ejection acting like he did nothing wrong and shocked that he was ejected.

Stewart is understandably pissed.  Tries to run towards the Lakers a few times, fighting through his teammates and officials.  Never gets near Lebron, throws no punches, makes no contact with anyone of note, much less a Laker.

Lebron gets a 1 game suspension.  Stewart gets double that and will sit for 2.  I love the NBA, its my favorite professional league, but what an absolute joke.  I'm honestly shocked that they suspended Lebron at all given he's missing a game at MSG.  I'm fine that they gave Stewart a suspension.  He overreacted completely.  But being punished more aggressively than the man who split his face open is just a joke.

Lakers play the Pistons again on Sunday.  Looking forward to a scheduled Lebron rest day.

https://twitter.com/SanjiSomething/status/1462584372813574149?t=HqrdcRFbPR1C0_-3osXOpA&s=19

Agree with everything except he didn't elbow Stewart, he closed-fisted punched him in the face for the crime of boxing out on a FT. One game is a joke
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2021, 08:07:18 AM
https://twitter.com/SanjiSomething/status/1462584372813574149?t=HqrdcRFbPR1C0_-3osXOpA&s=19

Agree with everything except he didn't elbow Stewart, he closed-fisted punched him in the face for the crime of boxing out on a FT. One game is a joke


A one-game suspension is within the guidelines.  Any more than that would have been excessive.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-how-many-flagrant-fouls-lead-suspension-nba

"The NBA follows a 'penalty points' system to determine suspensions. A Flagrant 1 foul results in one penalty point, while a Flagrant 2 results in two penalty points. If a player accumulates more than five penalty points during the course of the regular season, they get suspended."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 23, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
Kings fan pukes on floor.  :-\

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/nba-jazz-kings-game-delayed-after-courtside-fan-vomits-forcing-jazz-bench-to-clear-155021313.html
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 24, 2021, 10:35:48 PM
How the heck did the future NBA champion Bulls manage to lose to the Rockets?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 24, 2021, 11:35:15 PM
nm
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on November 25, 2021, 06:37:23 AM

A one-game suspension is within the guidelines.  Any more than that would have been excessive.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-how-many-flagrant-fouls-lead-suspension-nba

"The NBA follows a 'penalty points' system to determine suspensions. A Flagrant 1 foul results in one penalty point, while a Flagrant 2 results in two penalty points. If a player accumulates more than five penalty points during the course of the regular season, they get suspended."

Okay assuming LeBron had 3 penalty points prior to that and 2 penalty points here would have put him at 5, if he had no penalty points prior to this then no suspension at all? As long as you avoid flagrants the rest of the year you get 2 free punches to the face (a.k.a. 4 penalty points)?

So if Stewart had punched LeBron in the face and LeBron subsequently lost his sh!t, you think Beef Stew gets only one game for penalty points and LeBron gets 2 games for his reaction? No chance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 25, 2021, 06:40:22 AM
Okay assuming LeBron had 3 penalty points prior to that and 2 penalty points here would have put him at 5, if he had no penalty points prior to this then no suspension at all? As long as you avoid flagrants the rest of the year you get 2 free punches to the face (a.k.a. 4 penalty points)?

So if Stewart had punched LeBron in the face and LeBron subsequently lost his sh!t, you think Beef Stew gets only one game for penalty points and LeBron gets 2 games for his reaction? No chance.

You can deal in hypotheticals all you want.  The penalties as they were handed out were completely understandable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on November 25, 2021, 10:19:04 AM
Here's what LeBron said about the ejection/suspension related to his altercation with Stewart. Comments were made last night after he scored 39 points to lead the Lakers to an OT win over Indiana:

“His elbow got kinda high, got me off balance a little bit. His elbow lifted my arm here, and I basically tried to swing down on his arm. When I swinged down on his arm, he got off balance and the left side of my hand grazed his face. I knew right away I had caught some part of his head, so I went over and apologized to him. Obviously, you guys saw what happened after that. ... I’m definitely not that type of player. I hate to see that and what escalated after that. ... It warranted an ejection because of what happened after that. Having me still in the game, the excitement of the fans, what could possibly happen after that. But a suspension, I didn’t think that was warranted, but the league made that call.”

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on November 25, 2021, 10:55:50 AM
You can deal in hypotheticals all you want.  The penalties as they were handed out were completely understandable.

So your position is that a player gets 2 free face punches per season (4 points) and the NBA is beholden to the flagrant foul points system when determining suspensions? Their hands are tied otherwise?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2021, 10:57:42 AM
Heck of a graze.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 25, 2021, 11:06:14 AM
So your position is that a player gets 2 free face punches per season (4 points) and the NBA is beholden to the flagrant foul points system when determining suspensions? Their hands are tied otherwise?

My position is that the suspensions were perfectly reasonable. You can change the argument all you want.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on November 25, 2021, 11:32:05 AM
My position is that the suspensions were perfectly reasonable. You can change the argument all you want.

I agree with you. Personally, I think Stewart should have also only gotten 1 game.

So if Stewart had punched LeBron in the face and LeBron subsequently lost his sh!t, you think Beef Stew gets only one game for penalty points and LeBron gets 2 games for his reaction? No chance.

And I realize you don't want to deal in hypotheticals, but I think everyone knows that if the above happened, Stewart would have gotten at least 2 games suspension, and Lebron might not have even gotten suspended.

But that isn't surprising, professional leagues have always protected their stars, and let them play by different rules.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on November 30, 2021, 12:20:38 PM
After Jimmy decided he wanted to be tough and yell across the court at Jokic following the Jokic/Morris incident (minutes after it happened, when he could’ve easily gone after Jokic if he wasn’t just acting tough for the cameras right after it happened), Jimmy sits out against the Nuggets? Lol.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 30, 2021, 12:28:17 PM
After Jimmy decided he wanted to be tough and yell across the court at Jokic following the Jokic/Morris incident (minutes after it happened, when he could’ve easily gone after Jokic if he wasn’t just acting tough for the cameras right after it happened), Jimmy sits out against the Nuggets? Lol.

Jimmy had a hard fall during the Bulls game and probably should have sat out the 2nd half of that game as well. Tailbone injury.

Morris is still out with his whiplash injury inflicted by Jokic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on December 01, 2021, 12:04:33 PM
Heat and Bulls fined the exact same amount as the Bucks - a 2nd rounder - for tampering. But they also got players out of that so....
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 01, 2021, 12:50:04 PM
Heat and Bulls fined the exact same amount as the Bucks - a 2nd rounder - for tampering. But they also got players out of that so....

And didn't get the fine the Bucks did.

Hilarious.  ESPN was reporting they were facing $10M fines and the loss of multiple first round picks.  The NBA was warning teams after they nixed the Bucks trade that they wouldn't allow this.

Whelp.  They won't if you're a Milwaukee sized market.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 01, 2021, 12:57:32 PM
Heat and Bulls fined the exact same amount as the Bucks - a 2nd rounder - for tampering. But they also got players out of that so....

The Bucks didn't because Bogdanovic never signed the contract with the Kings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 01, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
I'm not sure what impact he will have, even in spot minutes, but I am stoked about Boogie on the Bucks.  Have always loved him, but I think he's matured a lot in the last few years, he was a much improved locker room presence in Golden State and he replaces some of Tucker's toughness.  He has also developed a decent outside shot so I think he can fit well on this team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2021, 01:14:55 PM
Earlier this week, I lost bragging rights to my Bulls-fan son. And tonight I'll lose 'em to all y'all Bucks fans.

The Hornets are usually a damn entertaining team because LaMelo is a magician with the ball, Bridges is a modern-day Human Highlight Reel, and they have a lot of guys who can shoot and create. They can hit ten 3s in a row, so they can have some pretty great rallies. But defense is optional, and rebounding is even worse, which is why they're barely a .500 team despite a ton of offensive talent.

Unless Giannis catches Covid Toe, I don't know how he won't get as many points and rebounds as he wants to.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on December 01, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
The Bucks didn't because Bogdanovic never signed the contract with the Kings.

The NBA said the punishment took into account that the Bucks didn’t end up with Bogdanovic. I think that’s what has Bucks fans scratching their heads today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on December 01, 2021, 01:45:37 PM
The NBA said the punishment took into account that the Bucks didn’t end up with Bogdanovic. I think that’s what has Bucks fans scratching their heads today.

Yep, and the teams' statements basically chalk this up to the new cost of doing business
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 01, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
I'm not sure what impact he will have, even in spot minutes, but I am stoked about Boogie on the Bucks.  Have always loved him, but I think he's matured a lot in the last few years, he was a much improved locker room presence in Golden State and he replaces some of Tucker's toughness.  He has also developed a decent outside shot so I think he can fit well on this team.

I don't see it at all.  But I hope you're right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on December 01, 2021, 09:35:33 PM
Earlier this week, I lost bragging rights to my Bulls-fan son. And tonight I'll lose 'em to all y'all Bucks fans.

The Hornets are usually a damn entertaining team because LaMelo is a magician with the ball, Bridges is a modern-day Human Highlight Reel, and they have a lot of guys who can shoot and create. They can hit ten 3s in a row, so they can have some pretty great rallies. But defense is optional, and rebounding is even worse, which is why they're barely a .500 team despite a ton of offensive talent.

Unless Giannis catches Covid Toe, I don't know how he won't get as many points and rebounds as he wants to.

40, 12, and 9.  You weren't off by much.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2021, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah ... unfortunately for the Hornets, my scouting report was pretty good.

Damn, that desperation heave by Bridges almost went in!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2021, 01:16:28 PM
Brook Lopez had back surgery today.  Not good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 02, 2021, 08:58:22 PM
Thunder only down 70
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 02, 2021, 10:00:54 PM
Thunder only down 70

152-79??  That has to be the record.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 02, 2021, 10:38:58 PM
152-79??  That has to be the record.

It is. Previous record was 68, stood for over 30 years
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 02, 2021, 10:41:35 PM
It is. Previous record was 68, stood for over 30 years

Wow.  And Morant didn't play. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 02, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Wow.  And Morant didn't play.

It was 78 pts with like 2 minutes left.

Just a beating
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 02, 2021, 10:49:42 PM
It was 78 pts with like 2 minutes left.

Just a beating

That's insane.  Who is Memphis' 2nd best player?  Jaren Jackson?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2021, 12:06:44 AM
Line was 75, so good job covering by OKC.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 03, 2021, 04:29:34 PM
Wes back to the Bucks
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 05, 2021, 11:49:55 PM
Playing in Atlanta without their starting backcourt (LaMelo and Rozier), their starting center (Plumlee) and a rotation player (McDaniels), the Hornets beat the Hawks.

Miles Bridges, who is going to be a very, very rich young man, had 32 points on 11-for-15 shooting (4-6 from 3).

Kelly Oubre, starting for Rozier, had 28 points on 11-for-17 (6-10 on 3s). Ish Smith, who had been out of the rotation for more than a month, stepped in for LaMelo and had 18 pts, 7 ast and 1 TO in 32 mins. Hornets had only 6 TOs.

Crazy stuff happens in sports sometimes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 06, 2021, 03:30:10 AM
It don't matta, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2021, 07:07:39 AM
Just regular season NBA in December.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 07, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
Eastern Conference playoffs are gonna be fun.

Western conference…probably not so much.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AM
Get yer Pacer ... step right up and get yer Pacer here.

According to The Athletic, the Pacers are gonna do a major rebuild and anybody worth anything is on the block.

After starting the season 10-16, the Indiana Pacers are receptive in trade dialogue with rival teams regarding multiple veteran players, including two-time All-Star Domantas Sabonis, Caris LeVert and Myles Turner, sources tell The Athletic. The team's position on some of its veteran players signals a desire to potentially push toward a substantial rebuild.

Why now?

Bob Kravitz, Indiana senior writer: Because it's time. It's probably past time, but team president Kevin Pritchard continued to feel like this team would win once it got reasonably healthy. That hasn't happened, and the region has become ambivalent.

The Pacers are currently last in the league in attendance and 29th in percentage of capacity. Indy has tuned out the Pacers; the games cannot currently be accessed on streaming apps. Out of sight, out of mind.


Not sure what the price tag will be because these are as much salary dumps as they are player moves, but I'd sure like Turner or Sabonis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 08, 2021, 09:33:19 AM
The Pacers have tried.  But they have one very good (but not great) player in Sabonis.  A roster filled with good players, but ones that are a step or too outside the role they would play on a contending team.  Malcom Brodgan is a great example.  He is not a starting PG on an NBA contender.  He is a first guard off the bench who can defend, hit a shot occasionally, and run the point when needed.

They have been active in the trade market, but that has not yielded any upside.  And they have been stuck in draft pergatory with first round playoff exits five straight years before failing to quality last year.  And then they still ended up with the 13th pick in the 2021 draft.  And Chris Duarte looks...fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on December 08, 2021, 09:39:18 AM
The Pacers have tried.  But they have one very good (but not great) player in Sabonis.  A roster filled with good players, but ones that are a step or too outside the role they would play on a contending team.  Malcom Brodgan is a great example.  He is not a starting PG on an NBA contender.  He is a first guard off the bench who can defend, hit a shot occasionally, and run the point when needed.

They have been active in the trade market, but that has not yielded any upside.  And they have been stuck in draft pergatory with first round playoff exits five straight years before failing to quality last year.  And then they still ended up with the 13th pick in the 2021 draft.  And Chris Duarte looks...fine.

I feel for Pacers fans. We were stuck on that hamster wheel for years when the Senator ran things. Good enough to be a 6-8 seed every year but never truly committing to the tank.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 08, 2021, 10:05:19 AM
I feel for Pacers fans. We were stuck on that hamster wheel for years when the Senator ran things. Good enough to be a 6-8 seed every year but never truly committing to the tank.


And even then never did a full rebuild!  Just got incredibly fortunate drafting a world class talent with pick #15.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 08, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
I like Levert but otherwise I agree with most everything here.  Myles Turner is a guy who looks like he’s gonna make a leap, and has looked that way for the last 3-4 seasons, and then never does.

I wasn’t super broken up when Brogdon left the Bucks, hindsight is 20/20 but I never thought he was a full on stud
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on December 08, 2021, 12:23:56 PM
I wasn’t super broken up when Brogdon left the Bucks, hindsight is 20/20 but I never thought he was a full on stud

He's really good but the durability concerns made an extension much less palatable. I'm actually kinda surprised he got that second deal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 13, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
What are we to make of Zion Williamson?  I hope these rumors that he can't stop eating are false.  320?  He's an incredible talent.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 13, 2021, 10:13:03 PM
What are we to make of Zion Williamson?  I hope these rumors that he can't stop eating are false.  320?  He's an incredible talent.

 I think a lot is just that, rumors.  He’s in a tough spot cause he’s a big dude who seemingly puts on weight easily and a foot injury limits what you can do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 14, 2021, 11:10:15 PM
Opinions on him are mixed, but I really like Stan Van Gundy as a color guy.  He’s great with Harlan
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 15, 2021, 07:08:59 AM
I thought Steph Curry's achievement was amazing until I realized he didn't hit 2,974 3-pointers in a game.

A career? Ho-hum.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on December 18, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Kyrie is the storyline that keeps on giving
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 18, 2021, 01:45:56 PM
Kyrie is the storyline that keeps on giving

Guy is a clown.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 19, 2021, 05:55:57 AM
As is LeBron, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on December 19, 2021, 07:57:20 AM
Mid-season tournament, but for players in the H&S protocols
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 20, 2021, 08:50:18 AM
As is LeBron, hey?

You're more of an Enes Kanter type of guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on December 20, 2021, 11:01:32 AM
What are we to make of Zion Williamson?  I hope these rumors that he can't stop eating are false.  320?  He's an incredible talent.

Many saw this coming. Not the eating but the injury issues. His body wasn't going to be able to hold up for 82 games a season with his size and style of game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2021, 11:50:45 AM
Pity, folks hoo payd hard earned scratch two watch dat chit da Bucks and Cavs trew  up on Sat. nite, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 20, 2021, 12:28:31 PM
Pity, folks hoo payd hard earned scratch two watch dat chit da Bucks and Cavs trew  up on Sat. nite, hey?

Chance you take.

I have been very critical of paying to see stars and having them sit due to "maintenance", but injuries/Covid can't be helped.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 20, 2021, 01:10:44 PM
Pity, folks hoo payd hard earned scratch two watch dat chit da Bucks and Cavs trew  up on Sat. nite, hey?

I was there.  But I was also at game 6 of the NBA Finals.  So you win some and you lose some.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on December 20, 2021, 02:10:55 PM
Pity, folks hoo payd hard earned scratch two watch dat chit da Bucks and Cavs trew  up on Sat. nite, hey?

my buddy's neighbor dropped $2000 for courtside tickets to see Lebron, DWade, and Bosh take on the Blazers a few years back. He only got to see Bosh play. I got to see the Thunder with Durant and Westbrook sitting out (at least it was part of my ticket package). It's tricky with "load management" and now the "health and safety protocol."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 23, 2021, 09:32:11 PM
Bucks have had 3 back to backs in the last 11 days. And all of them required travel between games.

So much for trying to reduce back to backs and limit the need for load management.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 23, 2021, 09:35:36 PM
Bucks have had 3 back to backs in the last 11 days. And all of them required travel between games.

So much for trying to reduce back to backs and limit the need for load management.

Then have to fly back home for an afternoon Christmas game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 24, 2021, 12:01:11 AM
Spurs are hammering the Lakers at Staples.  I know Davis and others are out but that is not a good basketball team.  That Westbrook trade (as I predicted) has been a compete disaster.  They can't guard anyone and they gave up three starters.  Ooops.  They may not finish in the top 6. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 24, 2021, 06:13:06 AM
I think everyone but LBJ thought that Westbrook acquisition was terrible.  But yeah they aren't winning the west.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 24, 2021, 08:20:40 AM
Then have to fly back home for an afternoon Christmas game.



Dave bin back in MKE since 'bout 2 am, kemosabe, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on December 24, 2021, 11:34:43 AM
If all this craziness happened a few years ago, I bet Vander would have gotten some time to prove himself in the NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 24, 2021, 11:56:56 AM
If all this craziness happened a few years ago, I bet Vander would have gotten some time to prove himself in the NBA.

Not even COVID, Vander would have been a prime 2-Way contract player. That would have got him plenty of run and NBA practices
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 03:36:59 PM
Is Lopez ever coming back for the Bucks?  They look very poor defensively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 25, 2021, 04:05:44 PM
I’ve never seen anybody so good at getting their hand between a dunker’s hands to block the dunk attempt as Giannis is. Incredible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
What a comeback win for the Bucks.  Giannis truly is a freak.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 25, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
Wes with the winner!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 04:15:07 PM
Wes with the winner!

He was great today.  Grayson Allen did nothing. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 04:24:13 PM
OWWW.  Hopefully Curry is alright

This contest looks like a video game early on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 06:54:23 PM
Other than Tim Legler has ESPN ever had any studio host or analyst that was not  ether totally meh or atrocious?  I would consider giving every telecast to TNT and NBA TV.  I honestly think they're so awful that it could turn off viewers. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 25, 2021, 09:48:03 PM
Muggs, they “give telecasts” to networks that give them $$$.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 25, 2021, 09:59:00 PM
The LeBron/Westbrook relationship isn't going to last too much longer.  Although I'm not sure if any team would take Westbrook's contract.  It's amusing they would have been far better off with Paddy Mills and they could have gotten him and kept their three other starters.  Whooops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 26, 2021, 01:34:00 PM
The LeBron/Westbrook relationship isn't going to last too much longer.  Although I'm not sure if any team would take Westbrook's contract.  It's amusing they would have been far better off with Paddy Mills and they could have gotten him and kept their three other starters.  Whooops.

I'd be really interested in hearing the unvarnished justification for making that deal. It made no sense at the time, and obviously makes even less sense as each day goes by.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 26, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
I'd be really interested in hearing the unvarnished justification for making that deal. It made no sense at the time, and obviously makes even less sense as each day goes by.

Lebron the GM has always been terrible.  He wants to get his buddies and stars without thinking for chemistry or fit, like he’s playing NBA2K.  The ones with the Lakers are especially bad.

Why Pelinka went forward with it, I have no clue other than probably pressure from Lebron and Rich Paul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 26, 2021, 02:24:39 PM
Lebron the GM has always been terrible.  He wants to get his buddies and stars without thinking for chemistry or fit, like he’s playing NBA2K.  The ones with the Lakers are especially bad.

Why Pelinka went forward with it, I have no clue other than probably pressure from Lebron and Rich Paul.

Makes sense.

Jordan had a similar failing for sure; fortunately for the Bulls, he wasn't given the same kind of power that LeBron apparently has. IIRC, Kobe did some GM-playing, as did Wade, pretty famously. Probably happened many more times with superstars that we don't know about. But yes, LeBron has been a disaster in this regard.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 26, 2021, 02:41:50 PM
Makes sense.

Jordan had a similar failing for sure; fortunately for the Bulls, he wasn't given the same kind of power that LeBron apparently has. IIRC, Kobe did some GM-playing, as did Wade, pretty famously. Probably happened many more times with superstars that we don't know about. But yes, LeBron has been a disaster in this regard.

I think Giannis did this in milwaukee. It was  uncertain if he was going to sign an extension to stay in Milwaukee. Shortly after getting Holiday, he signed. I'm guessing he wanted a commitment from the Bucks to acquire better talent to give them a chance to win before he would sign.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 26, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
I'd be really interested in hearing the unvarnished justification for making that deal. It made no sense at the time, and obviously makes even less sense as each day goes by.

It didn’t and it's hard to believe they pulled the trigger.  I think his defense may even big a bigger problem than his offense.  He's still a freak athletically so I don't really get why he defends so poorly? Regardless I'm not sure the guy is tradeable at this juncture.  The Lakers are in big trouble.  I can't see them finishing top 6.  You wonder if they have the stones to bring Russ off the bench and start Monk? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on December 26, 2021, 03:19:53 PM
I think Giannis did this in milwaukee. It was  uncertain if he was going to sign an extension to stay in Milwaukee. Shortly after getting Holiday, he signed. I'm guessing he wanted a commitment from the Bucks to acquire better talent to give them a chance to win before he would sign.

There is a difference between “get better talent” or get a second star, and “sign these guys”.  Lebron has been picking specific guys he wants to play with since his second run in Cleveland.  And it usually doesn’t turn out all that well.  AD is the notable exception and that was more Rich Paul than Lebron
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 26, 2021, 03:33:00 PM
There is a difference between “get better talent” or get a second star, and “sign these guys”.  Lebron has been picking specific guys he wants to play with since his second run in Cleveland.  And it usually doesn’t turn out all that well.  AD is the notable exception and that was more Rich Paul than Lebron



JWags has a good point here.  I don't think Giannis and LeBron are really comparable as far as player involvement with personnel.   I didn't realize Giannis dropped 29 in the 2nd half yesterday after being out a few weeks?  People continue to underestimate how good this guy is, especially when you include his defensive prowess.  The Bucks in addition to the covid stuff may also be playing a little possum.  They absolutely could repeat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 26, 2021, 04:56:56 PM
JWags has a good point here.  I don't think Giannis and LeBron are really comparable as far as player involvement with personnel.   I didn't realize Giannis dropped 29 in the 2nd half yesterday after being out a few weeks?  People continue to underestimate how good this guy is, especially when you include his defensive prowess.  The Bucks in addition to the covid stuff may also be playing a little possum.  They absolutely could repeat.

You're right. They could repeat. Not playing possum, though - they have been pretty dominant when the Big 3 are all in the lineup.

Giannis may not have named the players he wanted the Bucks to sign, but he made it pretty clear that they needed to sign an All-Star caliber player or he would probably be gone. I believe he had more input/involvement than we thought. The Bucks had to run the Holiday trade through Giannis' camp. They wouldn't have pulled the trigger if he wasn't good with it.

So no, he didn't name a particular player and say 'get him or else', but he did say 'get me a star player.'
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 26, 2021, 05:18:43 PM
You're right. They could repeat. Not playing possum, though - they have been pretty dominant when the Big 3 are all in the lineup.

Giannis may not have named the players he wanted the Bucks to sign, but he made it pretty clear that they needed to sign an All-Star caliber player or he would probably be gone. I believe he had more input/involvement than we thought. The Bucks had to run the Holiday trade through Giannis' camp. They wouldn't have pulled the trigger if he wasn't good with it.

So no, he didn't name a particular player and say 'get him or else', but he did say 'get me a star player.'

They may need Lopez and I'm not sure Middleton is near playing his best hoops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 26, 2021, 05:24:40 PM
I agree on both points.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on December 26, 2021, 08:09:04 PM
The Bulls may be for real.  I haven't gotten to watch them all that much but their three main guys are way under the radar.  Have you seen DeRozan and Lavine's stats?  These guys are killing it. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on December 31, 2021, 05:38:45 PM
The Bulls may be for real.  I haven't gotten to watch them all that much but their three main guys are way under the radar.  Have you seen DeRozan and Lavine's stats?  These guys are killing it.

I love that DeRozan is killing it this season. He's the anti-analytics guy -- a lousy 3-point shooter who doesn't even like shooting 'em. Instead, he finds his spots 15-20 feet from the hoop, and he kills opponents with the kind of mid-range jumpers that most players and teams avoid like the plague.

It's cool that a guy with his game is a legit MVP candidate as we near the midseason point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 31, 2021, 06:15:11 PM
I love that DeRozan is killing it this season. He's the anti-analytics guy -- a lousy 3-point shooter who doesn't even like shooting 'em. Instead, he finds his spots 15-20 feet from the hoop, and he kills opponents with the kind of mid-range jumpers that most players and teams avoid like the plague.

It's cool that a guy with his game is a legit MVP candidate as we near the midseason point.

Jimmy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on December 31, 2021, 06:27:00 PM
I love that DeRozan is killing it this season. He's the anti-analytics guy -- a lousy 3-point shooter who doesn't even like shooting 'em. Instead, he finds his spots 15-20 feet from the hoop, and he kills opponents with the kind of mid-range jumpers that most players and teams avoid like the plague.

It's cool that a guy with his game is a legit MVP candidate as we near the midseason point.

Nevada Smith talked about this on his interview with The Golden Breakdown. He mentioned how for some people, the mid-range is a good analytic shot if that's something they excel at. I appreciated that while they urge dunks and threes, he also acknowledges the importance of letting players play to their individual m strengths.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on December 31, 2021, 06:42:27 PM
I love that DeRozan is killing it this season. He's the anti-analytics guy -- a lousy 3-point shooter who doesn't even like shooting 'em. Instead, he finds his spots 15-20 feet from the hoop, and he kills opponents with the kind of mid-range jumpers that most players and teams avoid like the plague.

It's cool that a guy with his game is a legit MVP candidate as we near the midseason point.

I'm warming on them as the biggest threat to the Bucks in the East, and that shot is part of the story. The Bucks dare you to shoot those shots, and we saw what happens when a player (Trae Young with his floater, Chris Paul with his shots from the elbow) can cause them trouble.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on December 31, 2021, 06:50:46 PM
I’ll believe DeRozan is a scary player in the Playoffs when he does it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 31, 2021, 07:22:02 PM
I’ll believe DeRozan is a scary player in the Playoffs when he does it.

He’s a better scorer in the playoffs than the regular season. I didn’t check the stats but it may be because the bench rotation is shorter in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on December 31, 2021, 07:23:51 PM
I just checked and he plays about 3.5 minutes more per game in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
I’m not worried about the Bulls…this year.  It’s Bucks or Nets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 01, 2022, 03:30:28 AM
I’m not worried about the Bulls…this year.  It’s Bucks or Nets.

I wouldn’t worry about the Nets so much either. That team is one more Kyrie Irving implosion away from being the Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on January 01, 2022, 03:57:15 PM
I wouldn’t worry about the Nets so much either. That team is one more Kyrie Irving implosion away from being the Lakers.

Wouldn’t take it that far. I’m not sure they are a finals threat without Kyrie but they are a top 3 team in the east as long as Harden and KD are healthy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 01, 2022, 04:04:21 PM
Wouldn’t take it that far. I’m not sure they are a finals threat without Kyrie but they are a top 3 team in the east as long as Harden and KD are healthy

FIFY. The guy is an absolute cheat code.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on January 01, 2022, 05:13:55 PM
FIFY. The guy is an absolute cheat code.

Agreed. I still don’t think he can do it himself, but he’s obviously the far more important of the two.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 01, 2022, 08:42:11 PM
DEROZAN MVP.

That’s the post.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 01, 2022, 08:59:04 PM
The wild thing is, a trio of Vucevic, DeRozan, and Lavine should ever have worked.

But boy it sure does.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 01, 2022, 09:00:48 PM
DeRozan is the first player in NBA history to hit buzzer beating game winners on back to back days.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 01, 2022, 09:30:55 PM
DEROZAN MVP.

That’s the post.

He’s probably top 5. He’s certainly not 1 right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 01, 2022, 10:30:45 PM
DeRozan is the first player in NBA history to hit buzzer beating game winners on back to back days.

That's really hard to believe. I'm not doubting it's true, just saying it's amazing given all the incredible players who have been in that league for 75 years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 01, 2022, 11:22:42 PM
Giannis just casually out here dropping 33 pt triple doubles in 31 minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 02, 2022, 09:27:33 AM
Giannis just casually out here dropping 33 pt triple doubles in 31 minutes.

He's still the MVP.

I like that Memphis team.  They're not just Morant.  They may be a player and year away but that group could give both GS and PHX some trouble. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 02, 2022, 09:46:54 AM
That's really hard to believe. I'm not doubting it's true, just saying it's amazing given all the incredible players who have been in that league for 75 years.

Mathematically speaking, not really. So much has to go right that the odds of it happening are really small.

1. The games have to be played on back to back days, which eliminates the vast majority of games.

2. The same team in both games has to be either tied, down one, or down two in the three point era.  This eliminates another large group of games.

3. Then, the same player has to attempt both shots.  If two different players shoot, then that situation is eliminated from our scenario.

4.  Finally, both shots have to be made.  Miss one shot and it doesn't fit the criteria.

I'm not sure what the mathematical odds are, but I'm sure they are quite low. But the long odds are what make DeRozan's accomplishment so cool.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 02, 2022, 12:05:49 PM
Mathematically speaking, not really. So much has to go right that the odds of it happening are really small.

1. The games have to be played on back to back days, which eliminates the vast majority of games.

2. The same team in both games has to be either tied, down one, or down two in the three point era.  This eliminates another large group of games.

3. Then, the same player has to attempt both shots.  If two different players shoot, then that situation is eliminated from our scenario.

4.  Finally, both shots have to be made.  Miss one shot and it doesn't fit the criteria.

I'm not sure what the mathematical odds are, but I'm sure they are quite low. But the long odds are what make DeRozan's accomplishment so cool.

All good points.

But still, 75 years is a long time. And for decades, the NBA often had games on three consecutive nights. I guess I'd have thought that West or Jordan or Bryant or somebody would have done it. But you're right ... odds are probably very, very long. And you're right -- it's very cool that DeRozan did it ... and just as we were having a conversation about him, too.

He's definitely in the MVP conversation. We'll see how he and his team do over the second half of the season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 02, 2022, 01:16:06 PM
Bird had game winners in back to back games, the games had a day off in between.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 06, 2022, 08:31:11 AM
Bucks losing home games to the Pistons and Raptors isn't great.  Waiving Boogie is fine with me.  Some Bucks fans are so upset about that.  I think the Bucks want someone who could defend a chair, can stretch the floor, and doesn't spend 35% of his time on the court yelling at refs (or teammates).

Heat fans were big mad saying you don't shove a guy in the back when Jokic did it to Morris.  Will they hold Tyler Herro to the same standard?  Of course not.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 06, 2022, 09:58:22 AM
Bucks losing home games to the Pistons and Raptors isn't great.  Waiving Boogie is fine with me.  Some Bucks fans are so upset about that.  I think the Bucks want someone who could defend a chair, can stretch the floor, and doesn't spend 35% of his time on the court yelling at refs (or teammates).

Heat fans were big mad saying you don't shove a guy in the back when Jokic did it to Morris.  Will they hold Tyler Herro to the same standard?  Of course not.


OMG they're gonna bring Ersan back aren't they.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2022, 10:17:37 AM
Boogie=Greg Monroe

Aka, over da hill and too slow for da style of ball #34 needs ta play, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on January 06, 2022, 10:47:03 AM
I also think it was done for flexibility. He would become a guaranteed contract on Friday, but wouldn’t be able to be traded.

He likely wouldn’t be a playoff rotation player, so this frees up a spot and money for a buyout/traded player. I think the big risk is they are really thin in the front court.

Hopefully there’s a trade for a center coming soon. Not sure how long Donte is going to be on the team. He seems to be their best asset.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on January 06, 2022, 02:06:07 PM
I wonder if a RoLo reunion is being discussed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 06, 2022, 07:52:55 PM
Rudy Gobert in COVID protocol.

<Insert "Aw, shít, here we go again.">
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 06, 2022, 08:56:31 PM
Rudy Gobert in COVID protocol.

<Insert "Aw, shít, here we go again.">

Sir, this is a christian minecraft server. Please don't say the naughty words.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 06, 2022, 09:15:51 PM
Markieff Morris comments on missing 30 games (so far) after getting trucked by Jokic

https://twitter.com/keefmorris/status/1479276725292830723?s=21

> Ain’t sh*t wild about it! It’s a real injury! Imagine having a 300 pound sloppy fat boy run full speed and make direct contact with your spine! I’ll be back soon like I said.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 06, 2022, 09:34:55 PM
Calling Jokic a "sloppy fat boy" is such a salty loser comment considering that fat boy is 10X the basketball player he is and would soundly whip his azz in a fight.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 06, 2022, 09:43:24 PM
Calling Jokic a "sloppy fat boy" is such a salty loser comment considering that fat boy is 10X the basketball player he is and would soundly whip his azz in a fight.

Lol that was my exact thought.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CountryRoads on January 06, 2022, 09:48:57 PM
Calling Jokic a "sloppy fat boy" is such a salty loser comment considering that fat boy is 10X the basketball player he is and would soundly whip his azz in a fight.

It was a dirty play by Jokic.

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1457929928255541252?s=21
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 06, 2022, 10:03:26 PM
It was a dirty play by Jokic.

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1457929928255541252?s=21

Yup. After the dirty play by Morris. And the Heat were big mad about it. And so were their fans. Then Tyler Herro did the exact same thing last night. Sad.

https://youtu.be/s80TOga4WO8

(Well, he tried to, at least. But Nurkic isn’t a little guy like Morris is and Jokic isn’t a little guy like Herro is.)

The difference between the Heat and Jokic is the Heat will be tough when they’re behind a phone screen or across a court with 50 people between each other, while Jokic will be tough in the actual moment. Butler’s acting after the Jokic/Morris incident was hysterical. Dude could’ve ran up to Jokic and gotten into it with him any second. Instead he waits until there’s 0 chance he can get to Jokic and then starts yelling across a packed arena. Very tough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 07, 2022, 01:22:04 AM
Man, Eastern Europeans are some of the last people I would try to mess with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 10, 2022, 11:06:58 PM
2 nice wins in 3 nights for the Hornets over the defending champs.

Collectively, the Hornets play D like Rowsey ... but they have a lot of shot-makers, and their offense is fun to watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 13, 2022, 07:13:36 PM
Bucks have fully transitioned to only caring about games of consequence. Kudos to Bud for this transformation.

(Mostly kidding - they weren't half-assing in 3 games against the Hornets; it seeks they are just an extremely athletic and pesky team)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 13, 2022, 07:22:15 PM
Bucks have fully transitioned to only caring about games of consequence. Kudos to Bud for this transformation.

(Mostly kidding - they weren't half-assing in 3 games against the Hornets; it seeks they are just an extremely athletic and pesky team)

No, there is no kidding there. They smoke the Nets and Warriors and then lose 3 to the Pistons/Hornets. The offense always scores. It’s all about the defense. Big games, it flies around. Other games, not great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on January 13, 2022, 07:33:26 PM
That Looney kid ain’t worth chit hey?  Bobby got him in his pocket.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2022, 07:34:03 PM
What a second quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 13, 2022, 07:57:19 PM
When talking about how the Warriors will bus down to Chicago after the game tonight for their game with the Bulls tomorrow, did Reggie just say “They could’ve left at halftime?” LOL!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 13, 2022, 09:44:03 PM
I still think the Bucks need Lopez come playoff time.  Is he expected to come back this year?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 13, 2022, 10:08:08 PM
They smoke the Nets and Warriors and then lose 3 to the Pistons/Hornets.

Well, I'm not ready to crown the Hornets' arses ... but they aren't quite the Pistons, either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 13, 2022, 10:22:21 PM
Well, I'm not ready to crown the Hornets' arses ... but they aren't quite the Pistons, either.

It's still a problem.  From the games I have watched they go through the motions defensively at times. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 13, 2022, 10:30:30 PM
Well, I'm not ready to crown the Hornets' arses ... but they aren't quite the Pistons, either.

They’re closer to the Pistons than they are the Nets or Warriors.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 13, 2022, 11:13:46 PM
They’re closer to the Pistons than they are the Nets or Warriors.

The Hornets, at 23-19, are actually much closer to the Nets in the standings (3.5 games behind) than they are to the Pistons (13 games ahead). And they're closer to the Bucks (3 games) than they are to either.

Again, please don't read this as "the Hornets are almost as good as the Bucks." Because even though they just beat the Bucks twice in 72 hours, I know they're not really close. But I damn well know that they don't belong in the same sentence as the Pistons. And you do, too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 13, 2022, 11:45:05 PM
The Hornets, at 23-19, are actually much closer to the Nets in the standings (3.5 games behind) than they are to the Pistons (13 games ahead). And they're closer to the Bucks (3 games) than they are to either.

Again, please don't read this as "the Hornets are almost as good as the Bucks." Because even though they just beat the Bucks twice in 72 hours, I know they're not really close. But I damn well know that they don't belong in the same sentence as the Pistons. And you do, too.

We’re still barely midway through a fractured odd season with tons of major players missing time.

That being said, BLM was being snarky but if you look honestly, the Hornets are closer to being a lottery team (like the Pistons) than a title contender like the Nets.  And I really like the young Hornets core especially Melo.  But I don’t think that point is all that crazy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 14, 2022, 06:27:28 AM
We’re still barely midway through a fractured odd season with tons of major players missing time.

That being said, BLM was being snarky but if you look honestly, the Hornets are closer to being a lottery team (like the Pistons) than a title contender like the Nets.  And I really like the young Hornets core especially Melo.  But I don’t think that point is all that crazy

This exactly. The Nets and Warriors are playing to win a ring. The Hornets are playing to get into the Playoffs. They’re much closer to the level of team the Pistons are than the level the Nets or Warriors are.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 14, 2022, 07:36:28 AM
Okey dokey then, gentlemen. I'm not gonna spend more time in this semantics debate in which a pretty talented young team with a winning record that just beat the defending champs twice in 3 days followed by a road win in Philly is being lumped in with one of the worst teams in the league. Have a great Friday!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 14, 2022, 07:46:32 AM
Okey dokey then, gentlemen. I'm not gonna spend more time in this semantics debate in which a pretty talented young team with a winning record that just beat the defending champs twice in 3 days followed by a road win in Philly is being lumped in with one of the worst teams in the league. Have a great Friday!

Dismissing Charlotte because they’re not Brooklyn or Milwaukee completely missed the point
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2022, 07:51:30 AM
IDK, I think a team like Charlotte or Chicago could make a run like the Hawks did last year.  However I think its going to be difficult to sustain that over multiple, seven game series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on January 14, 2022, 03:37:41 PM
I still think the Bucks need Lopez come playoff time.  Is he expected to come back this year?

No timetable for his return, IIRC. Hopefully he can pull a Za'Darius Smith and be back just in time for a playoff run.

Fortunately, Bobby has been playing so well that we've worked through the absence of Brook quite well. Is he the best contract in the league right now?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 14, 2022, 04:06:12 PM
Zion has talked about wanting to play for the Knicks to the media in the past.  Now Reddish and Barrett are on the Knicks.  Maybe he'll be the first star to take the QO and become a UFA shortly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2022, 07:54:36 PM
Bulls…yikes.

They go to Memphis and Milwaukee in the next week. Gonna be a rough week.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 14, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Bulls…yikes.

They go to Memphis and Milwaukee in the next week. Gonna be a rough week.

Losing Lavine in the first 5 min didn’t help
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 16, 2022, 11:16:37 AM
Well the East is a hospital ward right now.

KD out for 1-2 months, Bulls without Lavine, Ball, Jones, Green, and Caruso.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 16, 2022, 12:25:31 PM
Well the East is a hospital ward right now.

KD out for 1-2 months, Bulls without Lavine, Ball, Jones, Green, and Caruso.

And the Bucks seem to only care if they’re playing the Warriors, Nets, or Lakers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 17, 2022, 07:29:34 PM
And the Bucks seem to only care if they’re playing the Warriors, Nets, or Lakers.

BUMP as they choke away a big lead in the 4th due to complete and utter apathy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 17, 2022, 07:46:52 PM
They are missing Jrue.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 20, 2022, 07:14:45 AM
I expect Westbrook gone very, very, soon. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2022, 07:40:10 AM
I expect Westbrook gone very, very, soon.

For what?  The dude is making $44M this year and $47M next year, and the Lakers don't really have many attractive picks to attach to him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 20, 2022, 07:44:41 AM
I expect Westbrook gone very, very, soon. 

To where though?  I mean, I would never say never with an NBA trade, but Westbrook's contract is awful and the Lakers can't give up any first rounders to incentivize someone to take that contract.  It was terrible idea from the beginning and now its playing out like many expected.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 20, 2022, 09:02:20 AM
Another real good win for the Hornets on a rare ESPN appearance, winning at Boston against a Celtics team that has been playing a lot better.

I had to set up a second TV in our family room because it's too much of a hassle to toggle back and forth using streaming services. I only watched during MU-Nova timeouts.

Miles Bridges is a stud who is gonna get a major, major payday. LaMelo is incredible. And Terry Rozier is one of the NBA's most underrated players; one of the best things Kupchak has done as GM was refuse to give Kemba a max deal and then replace him with Rozier. The Hornets are too young and still need more talent so they aren't quite ready to win big, but they're a fun, entertaining, offense-first team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 20, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
To where though?  I mean, I would never say never with an NBA trade, but Westbrook's contract is awful and the Lakers can't give up any first rounders to incentivize someone to take that contract.  It was terrible idea from the beginning and now its playing out like many expected.

Yea nobody is taking Westbrook and his albatross deal.  It’s kind of amusing that likely the last major deal of GM Lebron’s career will arguably be the worst
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on January 20, 2022, 12:05:16 PM
Yea nobody is taking Westbrook and his albatross deal.  It’s kind of amusing that likely the last major deal of GM Lebron’s career will arguably be the worst

Ohhh I think that old riverboat gambler has one more deal up his sleeve
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ben-simmons-of-the-philadelphia-76ers-smiles-prior-to-the-game-the-picture-id1130139574?s=612x612)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 20, 2022, 01:45:59 PM
Word is that the Sixers aren't gonna do anything with Simmons this season and then will trade him to the Nets for Harden after the season.

Harden loves the Sixers' GM (who had been Houston's GM) and respects Rivers, and as a bonus it would get him away from Kyrazie Kyrie.

And Simmons would work on a Nets team that doesn't need another shooter but would benefit from a guy who defends, rebounds and gets his teammates involved.

Makes sense if it can happen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 20, 2022, 02:17:51 PM
To where though?  I mean, I would never say never with an NBA trade, but Westbrook's contract is awful and the Lakers can't give up any first rounders to incentivize someone to take that contract.  It was terrible idea from the beginning and now its playing out like many expected.

Ya....he's not really tradeable.  Last I heard LeBron is very upset.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on January 21, 2022, 09:09:55 PM
The only thing worse than this reffing is the Bucks shooting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 21, 2022, 09:23:27 PM
Bucks brought their bricks to a rock fight
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2022, 09:59:36 PM
The Bucks played tonight? I thought the 2006 Pistons played at the Fiserv tonight
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 12:45:48 AM
Hard to believe but apparently true ...

According to ESPN (who no doubt got the info either from the Warriors or Elias Sports), Steph Curry's shot at the buzzer was his first game-winner ever at the final horn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 22, 2022, 08:39:07 AM
The Flagrant 2 from Grayson Allen last night. Mentioned in the NCAA thread, but I'll drop the video here in case others haven't seen it.

https://streamable.com/vjxu9g
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 08:45:38 AM
The Flagrant 2 from Grayson Allen last night. Mentioned in the NCAA thread, but I'll drop the video here in case others haven't seen it.

https://streamable.com/vjxu9g

Allen is an effen punk. Obviously, he should be suspended.

He's gonna need facial surgery someday because one of the guys he kicks or trips or throws down is gonna turn around and punch him in the face so hard that his nose will end up behind his head.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on January 22, 2022, 09:19:40 AM
Yeah I thought the guys on the call did a good job analyzing that foul last night. The first part was a hard basketball foul but that second part with the right arm shows he has the same weird dirty instincts and temper he’s always had.  And the fact that you couldn’t script a more stereotypical guy for Allen to pull that crap with than Caruso makes him that much more unlikable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 22, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
Yeah I thought the guys on the call did a good job analyzing that foul last night. The first part was a hard basketball foul but that second part with the right arm shows he has the same weird dirty instincts and temper he’s always had.  And the fact that you couldn’t script a more stereotypical guy for Allen to pull that crap with than Caruso makes him that much more unlikable.

The ejection was fine - it was borderline 1 or 2, but the initial foul was hard but clearly a basketball play to block a dunk attempt. To me, that changes the light in which I view it. The 2nd arm sweep was clearly unnecessary, and if you want to eject for that, I'm fine with that. But for all of Allen's warts, I don't see an overtly dirty play here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 10:00:13 AM
Allen is an effen punk. Obviously, he should be suspended.

He's gonna need facial surgery someday because one of the guys he kicks or trips or throws down is gonna turn around and punch him in the face so hard that his nose will end up behind his head.

That’s not going to happen.

And it wasn’t a suspendable foul. It was borderline Flagrant 2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 22, 2022, 10:02:36 AM
Grayson Allen is an American hero
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on January 22, 2022, 10:04:28 AM
Maybe the Homer in me, but I thought the second swipe was actually going for the ball too. Looks like Caruso still was going to get the shot up after the first swipe.

Then him twisting for the second swipe caused his momentum to turn Caruso and made the foul much worse. Definitely flagrant, but not sure it’s as dirty as people are making it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2022, 10:59:12 AM
Grayson Allen is an American hero

My favorite Duke player ever. Saved the world of a UW national title. Forever grateful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 22, 2022, 11:00:01 AM
My favorite Duke player ever. Saved the world of a UW national title. Forever grateful.

He should be on Mt. Rushmore.  Take Jefferson down
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 22, 2022, 11:02:31 AM
Maybe the Homer in me, but I thought the second swipe was actually going for the ball too. Looks like Caruso still was going to get the shot up after the first swipe.

Then him twisting for the second swipe caused his momentum to turn Caruso and made the foul much worse. Definitely flagrant, but not sure it’s as dirty as people are making it.

I’m no big Allen fan, but additionally, his eyes on on the ball pretty much the entire time. It’s mid air, weird momentum, he was reckless in his challenge, but it doesn’t look like he was headhunting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
Exactly. It was bad but I don’t think it was intentional. Flagrant 2 was fine though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2022, 02:50:46 PM
I’m no big Allen fan, but additionally, his eyes on on the ball pretty much the entire time. It’s mid air, weird momentum, he was reckless in his challenge, but it doesn’t look like he was headhunting.

It was terrible.  No need to swing that second arm around.
Caruso out 6-8 weeks. Suspend Allen now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 02:54:31 PM
It was terrible.  No need to swing that second arm around.
Caruso out 6-8 weeks. Suspend Allen now.

He was going to fall just based on the initial  contact.  Suspending him would be illogical.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2022, 03:05:27 PM
He was going to fall just based on the initial  contact.  Suspending him would be illogical.

Illogical is defending that play, something even the Bucks had the good sense not to do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 03:09:23 PM
Illogical is defending that play, something even the Bucks had the good sense not to do.

I’m not defending the play at all.  The initial contact was a hard foul. The swing with the right arm merited a flagrant 2. A suspension would be overkill. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 03:18:45 PM
But after reading Donovan’s and Caruso’s over the top comments, he will no doubt be suspended. Whining about this stuff usually works.  “Could have ended his career?”  Gimme a break.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 04:10:08 PM
Grayson Allen has been a dirty punk his entire basketball career, and now he has seriously injured an opponent with his actions.

History of behavior matters. The NBA needs to show it will not tolerate any more of it from this douchenozzle.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on January 22, 2022, 04:14:21 PM
Caruso fractures wrist, requiring surgery
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 22, 2022, 04:17:56 PM
Grayson Allen has been a dirty punk his entire basketball career, and now he has seriously injured an opponent with his actions.

History of behavior matters. The NBA needs to show it will not tolerate any more of it from this douchenozzle.
The NCAA should do the same with Floppy McDickpuncher
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2022, 04:18:39 PM
What Allen did in college should have absolutely nothing to do with how the NBA reacts to a hard foul. From what I can find, he’s never been suspended or even ejected in the NBA prior to last night. It’d be beyond absurd to suspend him because he has a history of dirty play…at an entirely different level of basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 04:21:38 PM
Grayson Allen has been a dirty punk his entire basketball career, and now he has seriously injured an opponent with his actions.

History of behavior matters. The NBA needs to show it will not tolerate any more of it from this douchenozzle.

History of what behavior?  He was kicked out of a summer league game in 2019. As far as I can tell, he hasn’t been kicked out of an NBA game. He isn’t some crazy repeat offender here. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 22, 2022, 04:31:13 PM
Grayson Allen has been a dirty punk his entire basketball career, and now he has seriously injured an opponent with his actions.

History of behavior matters. The NBA needs to show it will not tolerate any more of it from this douchenozzle.

This. Clearly a multi-game suspension is coming and deserved.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 04:34:13 PM
Suspend the douchenozzle, a serial punk.

Not sure why FBM is defending such a POS ... but I'm 100% certain that if Allen were on the Bulls and he did that to Giannis, BLM would not be soft-pedaling a malicious act that led to Giannis suffering a broken wrist.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2022, 04:36:24 PM
Suspend the douchenozzle, a serial punk.

Not sure why FBM is defending such a POS ... but I'm 100% certain that if Allen were on the Bulls and he did that to Giannis, BLM would not be soft-pedaling a malicious act that led to Giannis suffering a broken wrist.

Thanks for backing down on the whole let’s look at his college days thing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 04:46:54 PM
Suspend the douchenozzle, a serial punk.

Not sure why FBM is defending such a POS ... but I'm 100% certain that if Allen were on the Bulls and he did that to Giannis, BLM would not be soft-pedaling a malicious act that led to Giannis suffering a broken wrist.


I’m just using logic and not emotion. (Something that clearly are unable to do.) He’s not a serial offender and I don’t believe that Caruso’s injury should play any part in the decision.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
Also the idea that his punishment should be different based on whether he injured someone or not is just as absurd as looking at what he did in college to determine his punishment. I agree that history of behavior should be looked at. Luckily for him, there is none in the league he’s playing in. Then the question should be did the act deserve a suspension, not did the act injure someone?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 04:50:23 PM
Also the idea that his punishment should be different based on whether he injured someone or not is just as absurd as looking at what he did in college to determine his punishment. I agree that history of behavior should be looked at. Luckily for him, there is none in the league he’s playing in. Then the question should be did the act deserve a suspension, not did the act injure someone?

Yep yep. And I would say the same if Giannis were the injured one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 22, 2022, 05:22:03 PM
Suspend the douchenozzle, a serial punk.

Not sure why FBM is defending such a POS ... but I'm 100% certain that if Allen were on the Bulls and he did that to Giannis, BLM would not be soft-pedaling a malicious act that led to Giannis suffering a broken wrist.

Except there's zero indication it was malicious, you don't punish the result over the act,  and Allen was already punished for the act
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: NolongerWarriors on January 22, 2022, 05:33:08 PM
Really classy of the Bucks to mock the Bulls injured player with the twitter post featuring the pic of Allen (which they then deleted).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 22, 2022, 05:45:44 PM
Really classy of the Bucks to mock the Bulls injured player with the twitter post featuring the pic of Allen (which they then deleted).

You going to be ok?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 06:51:49 PM
Yes, I admit I’m emotional about a guy with a long history of dirty play injuring a fellow athlete with his latest dirty play.

Suspend the douchenozzle.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 06:54:47 PM
Yes, I admit I’m emotional about a guy with a long history of dirty play injuring a fellow athlete with his latest dirty play.

Suspend the douchenozzle.

Oh. So you’re admittedly irrational then. I guess we know who not to pay attention to.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2022, 07:01:17 PM
Oh. So you’re admittedly irrational then. I guess we know who not to pay attention to.

Well, reaction around the NBA agrees with me. And he’s gonna get suspended. But you are free to “rationally” keep defending a dangerous punk with a long history of dirty play.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 07:08:53 PM
Well, reaction around the NBA agrees with me. And he’s gonna get suspended. But you are free to “rationally” keep defending a dangerous punk with a long history of dirty play.

I’m not defending anyone.  He’s not a repeat offender, which you were wrong about, so I don’t think he should be suspended.

And I love Bulls’ fans, who are breathless about how Jordan would dominate this “soft” NBA, are now crying about how this could have been career ending. (Lol)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on January 22, 2022, 07:12:03 PM
Really classy of the Bucks to mock the Bulls injured player with the twitter post featuring the pic of Allen (which they then deleted).
Good for you.   We know you are getting increasingly frustrated with MU's play.  So glad you found something else to lash out at.   Good job staying in character.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 22, 2022, 07:13:37 PM
Fluffster, you've actually got this one right. If Allen's on your team, he's a baller who plays with his piss on. The same dude on the opposition and he's a dirty ass punk, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 07:26:30 PM
Fluffster, you've actually got this one right. If Allen's on your team, he's a baller who plays with his piss on. The same dude on the opposition and he's a dirty ass punk, hey?

I don’t get hung up on that stuff even when they’re on the other team. It’s just sports.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 22, 2022, 10:40:57 PM
Honestly I think the first contact was just a hard foul. The second swipe deserved a flagrant.... but I don't think it contributed to Carusos injury. He was going to land hard and awkward after the initial contract which is unfortunate but not dirty. If the second swipe caused the injury, I'd be a little more outraged
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 10:42:38 PM
Honestly I think the first contact was just a hard foul. The second swipe deserved a flagrant.... but I don't think it contributed to Carusos injury. He was going to land hard and awkward after the initial contract which is unfortunate but not dirty. If the second swipe caused the injury, I'd be a little more outraged

Exactly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on January 22, 2022, 10:48:01 PM
Honestly I think the first contact was just a hard foul. The second swipe deserved a flagrant.... but I don't think it contributed to Carusos injury. He was going to land hard and awkward after the initial contract which is unfortunate but not dirty. If the second swipe caused the injury, I'd be a little more outraged

Completely disagree. The follow-through with the right hand absolutely changed the trajectory and speed of his fall. Absolutely a dirty play (except for Bucks fans with their heads up their asses, apparently).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2022, 10:54:26 PM
Completely disagree. The follow-through with the right hand absolutely changed the trajectory and speed of his fall. Absolutely a dirty play (except for Bucks fans with their heads up their asses, apparently).

No I just watched the game and understand basketball.  I'm not going to be a slave to the emotion of the moment. 

What TAMU said is exactly what was said in real time by the ESPN announcers, who were even questioning if it was a Flagrant 2.  And I had no problem with the call.  Honestly, if this wasn't Grayson Allen, and Billy Donovan wouldn't have whined his way through the press conference post-game, this would have been a dead issue by now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 22, 2022, 11:13:30 PM
Completely disagree. The follow-through with the right hand absolutely changed the trajectory and speed of his fall. Absolutely a dirty play (except for Bucks fans with their heads up their asses, apparently).

I guess I'm technically a bucks fan,  I don't really watch the NBA. I didn't watch the play live.  I heard about it first and was expecting a lot worse. I'll agree to disagree,  I just don't see that second swipe really doing much to alter Carusos trajectory.  The first one?  Absolutely caused the injury
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on January 22, 2022, 11:21:51 PM
F2 was the right call. Don't think it was a dirty play. Reckless? Yeah, I think so.

If you're gonna intentionally take a dude out mid-air it would look a heck of a lot different.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2022, 11:33:04 PM
Bluemangroup has entered the chat. Lol.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 23, 2022, 03:52:06 PM
Suspended one game.  Glad to see the NBA didn't bow to the emotional mob over this.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 23, 2022, 04:00:35 PM
One game is a nothingburger. It's one game too many, but maybe fans out for blood can let it go. Injuries happen - it can be a physical sport. Hope Caruso heals up fully and comes back strong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUDPT on January 24, 2022, 09:25:21 AM
Not a great look for the Bucks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/scooperhoops/status/1485254112463798272
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 24, 2022, 09:38:15 AM
Yeah...that was not good. Bud's answer answer in the presser of "I thought he could shake it off" makes it worse
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 24, 2022, 09:18:27 PM
Zach Lavine as a second option, especially in an uptempo offense...fun and a pretty good player.

On his own as "the guy", especially in the half court?  Awful chucker who thinks hes 2-3X the player he actually is.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on January 25, 2022, 07:03:06 AM
Yeah...that was not good. Bud's answer answer in the presser of "I thought he could shake it off" makes it worse

Inexcusable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 25, 2022, 12:28:53 PM
Pat Riley on Lebron James (is IWB really Pat Riley?)

https://streamable.com/e77ohj
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 25, 2022, 12:49:08 PM
Pat Riley on Lebron James (is IWB really Pat Riley?)

https://streamable.com/e77ohj


Dodds is the blender guy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 25, 2022, 02:56:00 PM

Dodds is the blender guy. 

This whole time I thought Dodds and IWB were the same guy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 25, 2022, 02:59:44 PM
This whole time I thought Dodds and IWB were the same guy


No, IWB is Jim Ganzer.  Dodds is just Dodds.

The main difference is that IWB still puts up with my nonsense, but Dodds' kicked me out of his sandbox long ago.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 25, 2022, 03:08:19 PM

No, IWB is Jim Ganzer.  Dodds is just Dodds.

The main difference is that IWB still puts up with my nonsense, but Dodds' kicked me out of his sandbox long ago.

Good to know. I found a writeup on the wiki of Marquette forum history just in case anyone else has ignored most of the message board drama over the years - https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/marquette_internet_forum_history
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 25, 2022, 03:21:17 PM
Good to know. I found a writeup on the wiki of Marquette forum history just in case anyone else has ignored most of the message board drama over the years - https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/marquette_internet_forum_history


You are forgetting the most important site on Marquette hoops to start up in the last decade.  Remember, the one just created in March with this description?

"We created this blog to give a different perspective on Marquette basketball.  We love talking Marquette basketball, but don't look for us to always have the groupthink bias running rampant these days.

Our bloggers are Warrior and Golden Eagle graduates from the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's and include a former player, multiple members with decades of college and professional sports work experience, as well as some knowledgeable MU basketball historians with strong views.  We often don't agree with each other, but we're not afraid to let each other speak their minds and will challenge the conventional wisdom if needed.  Our goal is to keep politics out of this space as it has ruined some MU digital communities. We are located across the United States. Thank you for visiting."

Oh they have no articles since August

https://www.mupoop.com/   

And no Tweets since January 1.

https://twitter.com/mu_poop 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on January 25, 2022, 04:26:22 PM
Bluemangroup has entered the chat. Lol.

I've missed your idiocy, BLM!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on January 25, 2022, 04:29:34 PM
I've missed your idiocy, BLM!

I love meatball Chicago sports fans.  There's very little that brings more comedy to this world.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on January 25, 2022, 04:31:45 PM
I guess I'm technically a bucks fan,  I don't really watch the NBA. I didn't watch the play live.  I heard about it first and was expecting a lot worse. I'll agree to disagree,  I just don't see that second swipe really doing much to alter Carusos trajectory.  The first one?  Absolutely caused the injury

I absolutely wasn't referring to you at the end of my post - I think you're a great poster and especially appreciate your contributions on the other board. 

Definitely agree to disagree regarding the impact of the follow-through.  I've watched the replays many times and it does seem clear to me the second swipe with the right arm impacted the fall. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on January 25, 2022, 04:32:37 PM
I love meatball Chicago sports fans.  There's very little that brings more comedy to this world.

Ah, the irony.  Never change, BLM. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on January 25, 2022, 06:15:01 PM
I love meatball Chicago sports fans.  There's very little that brings more comedy to this world.

I must have missed how rational and nuanced and measured bratwurst brain Wisconsin fans are.

Meatball BEARS WEATHER Chicago fans are chucklehead morons but they are hardly unique
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 25, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
I must have missed how rational and nuanced and measured bratwurst brain Wisconsin fans are.

Meatball BEARS WEATHER Chicago fans are chucklehead morons but they are hardly unique

All fans are stupid
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 25, 2022, 07:42:55 PM
All fans are stupid

Marquette's fans are NUTS!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on January 29, 2022, 12:07:33 AM
My lord the East standings are a clusterfck.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on January 29, 2022, 08:47:39 AM
Playing without LeBron and AD last night, the Lakers looked like a JV team for most of the first 3 quarters. The Hornets weren't playing well, but they were still toying with that terrible team and built a 20-point lead.

Then Westbrook, who had been awful, seemed to suddenly realize that without LJ and AD he could just do whatever he wanted. Didn't have to defer to anybody. He had something like 30 points from the middle of the 3Q on to make it a tight game, and hit two 3s in the last minute to tie it. Missed a 3 at the buzzer, though.

Would have been an embarrassing loss, but the Hornets held on for a much needed win. At 28-22, Hornets are closer to second place than they are to 11th, but they sit in 7th and definitely want to move up at least one spot to avoid the play-in game. No room to lose to cruddy teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 01, 2022, 04:29:17 PM
Former Spurs assistant Becky Hammon was hired as the new coach/GM for Las Vegas' WNBA last month.  Came out this week that she's making $1MM.  Her star tweeted her anger about it vs player salaries today and its getting a bunch of support online...completely missing the fact that player salaries are dictated by the salary cap while coach salaries are a separate negotiation with ownership, an ownership that realized she was a very in-demand coaching name.

This isn't meant to be a diss on the WNBA, but its kind of baffling how every argument about the financials of the league and its salaries seem to be rooted firmly in emotion and not the actual financial business of everything.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 02, 2022, 10:20:07 AM
James Harden: "At this point, you can't touch nobody defensively.  Or it'll be two free throws."

LOL!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 05, 2022, 06:25:24 PM
Bucks signing Greg Monroe to a 10-day contract makes no sense to me unless he plugs a hole until Lopez gets back after the All-Star break. Still lookin' for a pick-up at da trade deadline, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 05, 2022, 06:32:07 PM
Bucks signing Greg Monroe to a 10-day contract makes no sense to me unless he plugs a hole until Lopez gets back after the All-Star break. Still lookin' for a pick-up at da trade deadline, hey?

I suspect that or waiting to see who gets bought out.  They’ve been linked to Robin Lopez in that regard
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 05, 2022, 06:58:05 PM
Bucks signing Greg Monroe to a 10-day contract makes no sense to me unless he plugs a hole until Lopez gets back after the All-Star break. Still lookin' for a pick-up at da trade deadline, hey?

They'll need a couple of players after they trade Giannis' azz, nu?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 08, 2022, 10:42:48 AM
Portland in fire sale mode.  McCollum and Nance to New Orleans for cap fodder and picks.

They traded Powell and Covington to the Clippers last week.  Will Lillard hit the trade block next?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2022, 11:29:39 AM
Portland in fire sale mode.  McCollum and Nance to New Orleans for cap fodder and picks.

They traded Powell and Covington to the Clippers last week.  Will Lillard hit the trade block next?

They cleared a ton of cap space.  The current narrative is they want to add pieces around Dame this summer
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 08, 2022, 12:02:47 PM
Portland in fire sale mode.  McCollum and Nance to New Orleans for cap fodder and picks.

They traded Powell and Covington to the Clippers last week.  Will Lillard hit the trade block next?

Does this mean Johnny Davis is on their radar now?

*Ducks and runs quickly out of thread*
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 08, 2022, 12:22:58 PM
They cleared a ton of cap space.  The current narrative is they want to add pieces around Dame this summer

Who are they getting this summer? The FA market is bad. Harden? Kyrie? They aren’t going there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 08, 2022, 12:32:59 PM
 Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
The Pacers are trading Domas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb and Jeremy Lamb to Sacramento for Tyrese Hailburton, Buddy Hield and Tristan Thompson, sources tell ESPN.

For dinner, Woj will have a steak sandwich and a steak sandwich. And put it on the Underhill account.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 08, 2022, 12:37:30 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
The Pacers are trading Domas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb and Jeremy Lamb to Sacramento for Tyrese Hailburton, Buddy Hield and Tristan Thompson, sources tell ESPN.

For dinner, Woj will have a steak sandwich and a steak sandwich. And put it on the Underhill account.

Jeremy Lamb and his doppelganger?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 08, 2022, 12:40:57 PM
Second Jeremy Lamb is actually Justin Holiday. 

Kind of nuts as the Kings seemed to repeatedly say “Halliburton or Hield, not both” but here we are
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2022, 12:43:24 PM
Who are they getting this summer? The FA market is bad. Harden? Kyrie? They aren’t going there.

Listen, I didn’t say it was a good plan, just that it was a plan.  They could be blowing smoke, too, driving up a package for Dame
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on February 08, 2022, 12:48:14 PM
Who are they getting this summer? The FA market is bad. Harden? Kyrie? They aren’t going there.

I think they just had to do something or they're going to lose Dame anyway.  So blow it up, maximize cap space and assets, and hope the landscape sufficiently changes over the next 6 months for Dame to be able to recruit somebody, otherwise you just give in to his trade demand later and are no worse off.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 08, 2022, 12:49:09 PM
That Pacers/Kings trade is going to make my head explode.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 08, 2022, 02:06:05 PM
Kings are dumb as sh it
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 08, 2022, 02:24:49 PM
Kings are dumb as sh it

Yeah I don’t know exactly what this does for the Kings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on February 08, 2022, 02:37:22 PM
Sabonis is a poor mans Jokic, and unfortunately the Kings don't have anywhere near the supporting cast Denver has, they just traded it away.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 08, 2022, 02:45:08 PM
Today I learned, Buddy Hield is 29. Thought he was way younger than that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 08, 2022, 03:46:24 PM
Today I learned, Buddy Hield is 29. Thought he was way younger than that.

He's the anti-Markus.  I think he repeated a grade when he came to the US for HS.  He was basically a 20 year old freshman when he got to OU.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 08, 2022, 03:51:21 PM
Apparently Lasry did an interview out in LA and said Brook will be back "soon."  Huge if that's true.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 08, 2022, 11:16:36 PM
Apparently Lasry did an interview out in LA and said Brook will be back "soon."  Huge if that's true.

Nice.

Giannis needs to get his act together.  Just look at his box score vs mighty Lebron.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 09, 2022, 08:13:27 AM
Imagine being called the best or one of the best defenders in the NBA year in and year out, and then having one of the guys competing for that title with you go for 47 on 78% shooting in the first game against you and 44 on 85% shooting in the second game against you. Lol. I love that the Lakers just keep leaving AD one on one with Giannis, thinking he can contain him.

Also hilarious that after the 2019 Playoffs Rich Paul had this to say:

"He's just as talented as anyone who's ever played this game. Six-11, makes 3s, blocks shots. I think he's one of the better passing big men in our game. In my opinion, this is what makes him different from Giannis.

"Like, if you put Anthony Davis on that Bucks team last year, they'd be playing in the Finals. He knows how to make guys better. That's not a knock to Giannis, but that's just what [I think]."

Forget the fact that Giannis has almost 1,600 more assists (over twice as many) than AD in less time in the League. Lol.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2022, 09:01:37 AM
I don't know if it is nagging injuries or what, but AD has just fallen off the map the last two seasons.  He's way too young for that to happen, but he is clearly talented enough. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 09, 2022, 09:08:08 AM
Imagine being called the best or one of the best defenders in the NBA year in and year out, and then having one of the guys competing for that title with you go for 47 on 78% shooting in the first game against you and 44 on 85% shooting in the second game against you. Lol. I love that the Lakers just keep leaving AD one on one with Giannis, thinking he can contain him.

Also hilarious that after the 2019 Playoffs Rich Paul had this to say:

"He's just as talented as anyone who's ever played this game. Six-11, makes 3s, blocks shots. I think he's one of the better passing big men in our game. In my opinion, this is what makes him different from Giannis.

"Like, if you put Anthony Davis on that Bucks team last year, they'd be playing in the Finals. He knows how to make guys better. That's not a knock to Giannis, but that's just what [I think]."

Forget the fact that Giannis has almost 1,600 more assists (over twice as many) than AD in less time in the League. Lol.

I still don't think people realize truly how special this guy is.  And no, you couldn't replace him with somebody else and win a title or be title contenders.  That's not a knock on Middleton or Holiday, they're both really good, but let's not forget what Giannis did to slam the door last year. 

The clear three best players in the league right now are Giannis, Embiid, and Durant (when healthy).  The East appears wide open but I believe the Bucks have sort of gone through the motions and miss Lopez.  I am curious if they will make a move for a like a 6'8 defensive switchable or a knockdown shooter?  I thought they would get more from their back-up 3's.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2022, 09:23:49 AM
I still don't think people realize truly how special this guy is.  And no, you couldn't replace him with somebody else and win a title or be title contenders.  That's not a knock on Middleton or Holiday, they're both really good, but let's not forget what Giannis did to slam the door last year. 

The clear three best players in the league right now are Giannis, Embiid, and Durant (when healthy).  The East appears wide open but I believe the Bucks have sort of gone through the motions and miss Lopez.  I am curious if they will make a move for a like a 6'8 defensive switchable or a knockdown shooter?  I thought they would get more from their back-up 3's.


I think the Bucks were hoping that Donte would be more of a tradeable asset this year. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 09, 2022, 09:24:44 AM
AD was flummoxed by Giannis the entire game and this pretty much foreshadowed how the game was going to go:

https://twitter.com/presidual/status/1491248449853202435?t=2JGf4bUdMv2fSPYP1Lc_Ag&s=19 (https://twitter.com/presidual/status/1491248449853202435?t=2JGf4bUdMv2fSPYP1Lc_Ag&s=19)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 09, 2022, 10:02:30 AM
I don't know if it is nagging injuries or what, but AD has just fallen off the map the last two seasons.  He's way too young for that to happen, but he is clearly talented enough.

Injuries haven't helped, but Ive said for a long time that Lebron doesn't make superstars better.  Role players and lesser stars?  Absolutely.  But other alpha, potential All NBA guys playing with him need to defer or accept his utter ball dominance in the majority of the game.  Its been that way since he left Miami.  Thats why the Lillard talk is so silly to me.  He'd be brought in as a shooter and playing off ball most of the time, which is not his game.

Provided he's healthy, if Lebron retired and AD stayed a Laker, I think we'd see more of the AD of old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2022, 10:09:07 AM
The advanced stats show that his first season in LA was pretty much what he had always been.  But the last two seasons, his offensive rating, win-shares, value over replacement has all decreased pretty dramatically.

So I really don't think this is a Lebron thing.  This looks more like a player who hasn't been 100% for awhile.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 09, 2022, 10:17:12 AM
Kings are dumb as sh it

What do you expect. They drafted Marvin Bagley over Luka.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 09, 2022, 11:00:29 PM
Lakers are gonna blow the whole thing up next year. Davis’ contract makes it touuugh to trade him but wouldn’t be surprised to see him elsewhere next year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 09, 2022, 11:26:27 PM
Lakers are gonna blow the whole thing up next year. Davis’ contract makes it touuugh to trade him but wouldn’t be surprised to see him elsewhere next year.

They may be in full tank mode.  They know they have literally no chance if they finish 7-10.  Didn't Lebron want Westbrook?  Most of us predicted this would be a disaster. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 09, 2022, 11:29:07 PM
 “Lebron isn’t a drama queen, people just hate him so they exaggerate”

….

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1491643385576235011?s=20&t=0BRpoCyd8MF94BqvkI3wLQ
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 09, 2022, 11:53:29 PM
“Lebron isn’t a drama queen, people just hate him so they exaggerate”

….

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1491643385576235011?s=20&t=0BRpoCyd8MF94BqvkI3wLQ

I couldn't tell if he was touched.

In all seriousness has anyone ever really asked why Westbrook is one of the worst defensive players in the league?  And he's always been awful.  When you think about what kind of athlete he is it's pretty remarkable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 10, 2022, 03:38:09 AM
“Lebron isn’t a drama queen, people just hate him so they exaggerate”

….

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1491643385576235011?s=20&t=0BRpoCyd8MF94BqvkI3wLQ





Couldn't happen to a nicer ass hole, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 04:44:10 AM
Nm
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 10, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Harden wants to be traded to the 76ers but won’t formall request a trade

Good luck, Sixers
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 10, 2022, 09:13:44 AM
Woodant give a couple of used Bikes four hiz ass, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 10, 2022, 09:30:10 AM
Woodant give a couple of used Bikes four hiz ass, hey?

Nope.  Guys a losing player
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 10, 2022, 10:12:35 AM
If you do Harden for Simmons, who hasn't played a game and won't play a game for the Sixers this season, Philly on paper would be improving dramatically by adding a likely Hall of Fame PG.

On paper. When Harden buys in and he's healthy, he is an exceptional offensive talent. One would have to assume he'd buy in at least for this season.

I hope the trade happens because I'm interested in the Harden-Embiid dynamic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 10:20:18 AM
I think the Nets are going to hold onto him despite the threat he exercises his player option after the season.  I don't think they want to be saddled with Simmons' contract.

All and all, this will be their best season for a title and they can fill his cap space next year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 10:36:10 AM
Well, I would think there's no way Philly is making this deal if they have to part with Maxey or Thybulle.  And if I'm the Nets Simmons, Seth Curry, and whoever aren't going to make them better this year.  So do you just give up on this season?  I'm also not sure Hatden is a good fit with Embiid.  Maybe they go after Lillard?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 10:40:00 AM
If you do Harden for Simmons, who hasn't played a game and won't play a game for the Sixers this season, Philly on paper would be improving dramatically by adding a likely Hall of Fame PG.

On paper. When Harden buys in and he's healthy, he is an exceptional offensive talent. One would have to assume he'd buy in at least for this season.

I hope the trade happens because I'm interested in the Harden-Embiid dynamic.

The reports yesterday were that the Nets wanted both Thybulle and Maxey in addition to Simmons, and were also interested in Seth Curry.  If that's the trade, I think the Sixers get worse (Embiid is not the type of big that Harden likes to play with.  A rim running, lob finishing big who doesn't need the ball in his hands and doesn't clog up the lane, plus they're giving up all of their defense outside of Embiid) and the Nets get better if Kyrie stops needing the martyr attention he so desires and gets vaxxed (improve a ton defensively and don't really need the offense if Kyrie and KD are healthy and playing).

Best case scenario for the Bucks would be no deal is made and Kyrie remains unvaxxed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on February 10, 2022, 10:54:33 AM
I think the Nets are going to hold onto him despite the threat he exercises his player option after the season.  I don't think they want to be saddled with Simmons' contract.

All and all, this will be their best season for a title and they can fill his cap space next year.

I think taking on Simmons contract would be a big mistake for the Nets.  Its not like they're a small market team that will have trouble attracting big ticket free agents. Even the worst case scenario is that Harden leaves and opens up a ton of space, and then Durant goes into recruiting mode which won't be hard in Brooklyn.  Once you get past the sunk cost fallacy of what they gave up to get Harden, I think they're better off with TBD than Simmons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 10:57:26 AM
Not sure I love this move for the Bucks.  Serge isn't really great, and I think you'll be able to find a big on the buyout market that is pretty much equally as good as he is.  Donte was going to be gone next season anyway, but I was hoping they'd at least try to work out some kind of sign and trade since he's restricted.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 11:09:43 AM
Also, Serge has to have had the Thon Maker birth certificate treatment, right?  There is no chance in hell he is 32 years old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 10, 2022, 11:10:53 AM
Donte was a dead man walking when Grayson was extended. Thought the Bucks could've done better than Ibaka, doe, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 11:20:11 AM
Bucks sold low on Donte, I’m not sure what this deal really does for them. Unless they have something else up their sleeve (maybe?).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 11:21:53 AM
Surprised.  I think the Bucks could have done better.  I didn't even know Ibaka was still in the league.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on February 10, 2022, 11:22:47 AM
Bucks sold low on Donte, I’m not sure what this deal really does for them. Unless they have something else up their sleeve (maybe?).

I don't think Donte carries much value, with his injury history and inconsistent shooting.

They needed a big and got him. As long as the minutes are within reason, I think it helps.

Need an athlete on the wing though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 10, 2022, 11:23:02 AM
Bucks sold low on Donte, I’m not sure what this deal really does for them. Unless they have something else up their sleeve (maybe?).

He's a guy that fills a role. But those 2nd round picks are what really matters here, plus 2 spots open for the buyout market. So, welcome back Eric Bledsoe!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 10, 2022, 11:23:34 AM
Also, Serge has to have had the Thon Maker birth certificate treatment, right?  There is no chance in hell he is 32 years old.

Thon Maker was an unknown refugee who fled South Sudan until he was discovered in his teens in Africa.

Ibaka's parents were both on the Congolese national team for basketball and his father was a political prisoner at one point.  And Ibaka was in FIBA tourneys in his teens.  Not exactly under the radar or even at the level to falsify records at that point.

I do think he's 32, but this is his 14th season in the league, plus 2 seasons pro in Spain, so he's got a lot of miles on him.  He still rebounds well, he's a decent shooter from 3, and has always been a plus defender.  He's got playoff experience to give you good bench minutes like PJ Tucker did.  It will be interesting to see what he gives not being on a dumpster fire like the Clips
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 10, 2022, 11:29:22 AM
Adios Monroe and don't need Bled unless the team attendants need some help, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 10, 2022, 11:31:18 AM
I like DDV but he doesn't have a ton of trade value.  A 3 and D player, with an injury history, and heading to restricted free agency.

Bucks had a glut of wings with Grayson, Pat C, and Wes.  Ibaka is just ok, but at least he fills a need as a rim defender that can stretch the floor.  Even if he plays 15-20 mpg, that's important depth.

And the Bucks can still players in the buyout market.  They have a couple roster spots open from dumping Semi O and Rodney Hood in this deal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 11:35:48 AM
Donte is a replacement level guard.  They got replacement level post in return.  They just need someone to protect the rim, and go big with Bobby on the floor. 

Yeah they do need is a PJ Tucker type wing-defender.  Not easy to find though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on February 10, 2022, 11:52:53 AM
He's a guy that fills a role. But those 2nd round picks are what really matters here, plus 2 spots open for the buyout market. So, welcome back Eric Bledsoe!

Yeah, those pics are what caught my eye too.  Ibaka is the headliner of the deal because of name value, but I don't think this was purely a trade "for" Serge Ibaka.  Its a 4 team deal, but for the Clips its basically a trade with the Bucks - Serge for Ojeleye and Hood from the Bucks, so clearly they didn't put a big value on him either.  The 2nds, which if they are futures from Detroit, should be decently placed, might be the real return for DD.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 10, 2022, 12:15:15 PM
Yeah, those pics are what caught my eye too.  Ibaka is the headliner of the deal because of name value, but I don't think this was purely a trade "for" Serge Ibaka.  Its a 4 team deal, but for the Clips its basically a trade with the Bucks - Serge for Ojeleye and Hood from the Bucks, so clearly they didn't put a big value on him either.  The 2nds, which if they are futures from Detroit, should be decently placed, might be the real return for DD.

Those 2nd should allow us to do a salary dump to trade Giannis in order to retain Portis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 12:21:30 PM
And there it is:
@wojespn
The Brooklyn Nets are trading James Harden to the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and two first-round picks, sources tell ESPN.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 12:27:27 PM
And there it is:
@wojespn
The Brooklyn Nets are trading James Harden to the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and two first-round picks, sources tell ESPN.


Well, I was wrong about that.  But that is quite the haul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 12:27:50 PM
And there it is:
@wojespn
The Brooklyn Nets are trading James Harden to the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and two first-round picks, sources tell ESPN.

That feels like a pretty big win for the Sixers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 12:29:19 PM
That’s a heist for Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on February 10, 2022, 12:30:06 PM
Great for the 76ers in the short term.

Great for Brooklyn short term and long term.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 12:31:11 PM
Meh.  Simmons was never playing for the Sixers again.  So you got Harden for Drummond, Seth Curry, and the 25th-30th picks in 2 drafts.  That's not much.  The fact that they didn't have to give up either Maxey or Thybulle is a huge win for them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 12:33:02 PM
Meh.  Simmons was never playing for the Sixers again.  So you got Harden for Drummond, Seth Curry, and the 25th-30th picks in 2 drafts.  That's not much.

What?  Simmons is going to be playing for the Nets right?  You can't just exclude the trade value they get in return because he wasn't playing for the Sixers. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 10, 2022, 12:35:48 PM
James Harden is a loser.  Sixers fans joy today will be rage much sooner than later
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 12:36:55 PM
What?  Simmons is going to be playing for the Nets right?  You can't just exclude the trade value they get in return because he wasn't playing for the Sixers.

But he wasn't playing for the Sixers, and he never was going to.  So it's not like they're losing anything by not having him on their roster.  So they essentially lost two picks that will fall in the 25-30 range, Seth Curry, and Andre Drummond.  They gained James Harden.  That's a large upgrade, to understate it massively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 12:38:48 PM
That’s a heist for Brooklyn.

Ha.
I was thinking just the opposite. Simmons had no real value to the Sixers as anything but a trade piece, so they're not really losing anything there.
Late first-round picks have very little value in the NBA. Why people think otherwise defies logic.
Seth Curry and Drummond are fine rotational pieces, but that's about it.
It's usually the case in NBA deals that the team that gets the best player wins the trade. That's Philly here. The games of Embiid and Harden should fit together really well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 12:39:35 PM
Brooklyn probably trades those picks, but the 2027 first rounder (protected 1-8 in ‘27 & ‘28) is nice to stash. A 38 year old 250 lb Harden and a worn down Embiid in 2027 means that pick will be in play.

Both teams got better in the short term, but long term I’d rather have the Nets haul for sure.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 12:39:58 PM
James Harden is a loser.  Sixers fans joy today will be rage much sooner than later

They'll rue the day they traded away noted winner Ben Simmons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 12:41:12 PM
Wow.  It sure makes things more interesting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 12:42:02 PM
Ha.
I was thinking just the opposite. Simmons had no real value to the Sixers as anything but a trade piece, so they're not really losing anything there.
Late first-round picks have very little value in the NBA. Why people think otherwise defies logic.
Seth Curry and Drummond are fine rotational pieces, but that's about it.
It's usually the case in NBA deals that the team that gets the best player wins the trade. That's Philly here. The games of Embiid and Harden should fit together really well.

Wait to see, but 32 year old breaking down, putting weight on James Harden…who’s going to ask for and get a super max deal? Good luck with that moving forward.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on February 10, 2022, 12:47:10 PM
That’s a heist for Brooklyn.

They get better this year AND get a couple 1st round picks.

I said a while back that the 3some would never work for the Nets. Taking the ball out of Durante hands was never a winning idea.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 12:50:01 PM
They get better this year AND get a couple 1st round picks.

I said a while back that the 3some would never work for the Nets. Taking the ball out of Durante hands was never a winning idea.

I mean, it absolutely was working until injuries happened.  The numbers were historically good the few games they had on the court together.  They were a half shoe size away from beating the Bucks with two of their three stars hobbled/missing games, and the Bucks were the clear second best team (behind only the Nets) in the NBA last year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 12:51:37 PM
Brooklyn probably trades those picks, but the 2027 first rounder (protected 1-8 in ‘27 & ‘28) is nice to stash. A 38 year old 250 lb Harden and a worn down Embiid in 2027 means that pick will be in play.

Both teams got better in the short term, but long term I’d rather have the Nets haul for sure.

I don't think Philly is going to judge this trade by where they are in 2027. If that ever was a consideration for them in this trade, it lasted all of two seconds.
Long-term thinking in the NBA is silly and rarely results in winning. Long-term thinking gets you The Process, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Bulls picking at #7 for eternity. Or, heck, the present-day Boston Celtics.
Teams that win do so with big, bold moves that often mortgage the future - which is always overvalued in the league - for the present.
Look at the recent NBA Champs not named Warriors ...
2021 Bucks ... traded three first-round picks and more for Jrue Holiday
2020 Lakers ... traded multiple young starters and two first-round picks for Anthony Davis
2019 Raptors ... traded an all-star, a future first and a recent first for Kawhi Leonard;

Bottom line ... Philly is closer to a championship today than they were yesterday. Brooklyn is further away.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 12:54:30 PM
I don't think Philly is going to judge this trade by where they are in 2027. If that ever was a consideration for them in this trade, it lasted all of two seconds.
Long-term thinking in the NBA is silly and rarely results in winning. Long-term thinking gets you The Process, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Bulls picking at #7 for eternity. Or, heck, the present-day Boston Celtics.
Teams that win do so with big, bold moves that often mortgage the future - which is always overvalued in the league - for the present.
Look at the recent NBA Champs not named Warriors ...
2021 Bucks ... traded three first-round picks and more for Jrue Holiday
2020 Lakers ... traded multiple young starters and two first-round picks for Anthony Davis
2019 Raptors ... traded an all-star, a future first and a recent first for Kawhi Leonard;

Bottom line ... Philly is closer to a championship today than they were yesterday. Brooklyn is further away.

Bingo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 12:55:00 PM
Every team in the east should be pissed at Philly.

What a damn robbery by the Nets.

They need to get healthy. And get Kyrie vaxxed by jesus.

Simmons can be as anti jump shot he wants surrounded by this squad
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 12:59:06 PM
Every team in the east should be pissed at Philly.

What a damn robbery by the Nets.

They need to get healthy. And get Kyrie vaxxed by jesus.

Simmons can be as anti jump shot he wants surrounded by this squad

Because their starting lineup of Patty Mills, Seth Curry, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and Andre Drummond is filled with shooting.  ::)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 01:03:01 PM
I don't think Philly is going to judge this trade by where they are in 2027. If that ever was a consideration for them in this trade, it lasted all of two seconds.
Long-term thinking in the NBA is silly and rarely results in winning. Long-term thinking gets you The Process, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Bulls picking at #7 for eternity. Or, heck, the present-day Boston Celtics.
Teams that win do so with big, bold moves that often mortgage the future - which is always overvalued in the league - for the present.
Look at the recent NBA Champs not named Warriors ...
2021 Bucks ... traded three first-round picks and more for Jrue Holiday
2020 Lakers ... traded multiple young starters and two first-round picks for Anthony Davis
2019 Raptors ... traded an all-star, a future first and a recent first for Kawhi Leonard;

Bottom line ... Philly is closer to a championship today than they were yesterday. Brooklyn is further away.

...until Brooklyn flips one/both picks this afternoon to get better.

We can argue about the value of the picks, I certainly more than understand what you're saying, but they are capital, that can be used today, in the offseason, or in the future.

Philly is closer this season to winning a title, I stated both teams got better in the short term. Neither Harden or Simmons were playing (or going to continue playing) for their old teams.

I'll certainly roll the dice on the Harden extension being a massive bust going forward. If that's the price Philly wants to pay for a shot at this year's title...cool. Giving $62 mil a year (!!!!!!!!) to a 38 year old, out of shape, broken down Harden, I know Morey doesn't care (he won't be there by the time that deals up), but man, that'll be a massive mess to clean up.

Just win (now) baby.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 01:09:57 PM
Because their starting lineup of Patty Mills, Seth Curry, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and Andre Drummond is filled with shooting.  ::)

Ummm

Considering that wouldnt be their starting lineup. I struggle to find the relevance.

But even if it was....Thats 3 great shooters haha
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 01:11:59 PM
Ummm

Considering that wouldnt be their starting lineup. I struggle to find the relevance.

But even if it was....Thats 3 great shooters haha

Right.  Three great shooters.  20 years ago that would've been great!  And which player is out to make room for Simmons?  I guess Griffin.  So your shooting gets worse.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 01:12:38 PM
...until Brooklyn flips one/both picks this afternoon to get better.

We can argue about the value of the picks, I certainly more than understand what you're saying, but they are capital, that can be used today, in the offseason, or in the future.

Philly is closer this season to winning a title, I stated both teams got better in the short term. Neither Harden or Simmons were playing (or going to continue playing) for their old teams.

I'll certainly roll the dice on the Harden extension being a massive bust going forward. If that's the price Philly wants to pay for a shot at this year's title...cool. Giving $62 mil a year (!!!!!!!!) to a 38 year old, out of shape, broken down Harden, I know Morey doesn't care (he won't be there by the time that deals up), but man, that'll be a massive mess to clean up.

Just win (now) baby.

Of course you win now.  That's what you do in professional sports in every league.  Bad NBA contracts are not hard to get off of.  Harden will ask out of Philly before his max will even be up anyway.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on February 10, 2022, 01:14:38 PM
I mean, it absolutely was working until injuries happened.  The numbers were historically good the few games they had on the court together. They were a half shoe size away from beating the Bucks with two of their three stars hobbled/missing games, and the Bucks were the clear second best team (behind only the Nets) in the NBA last year.

You made my point. The Nets are better when Durrant has the ball more. That doesn’t happen with Harden AND Kyrie on the floor. Even when Harden is getting 10-12 assists per game, he is dominating the ball.

Simmons is also way way better defensively and will give the Nets a size advantage over almost everyone.

Harden will make the 76ers better now, but he has a not so stellar playoff history.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 01:14:49 PM
Right.  Three great shooters.  20 years ago that would've been great!  And which player is out to make room for Simmons?  I guess Griffin.  So your shooting gets worse.

How does the shooting get worse??

Drummond is a back up 5.

Simmons is the 4. Will play the small ball 5.

With Simmons you have an elite play maker who doesnt need shots. Surround by Durant and Kyrie. And two of the best shooters in the league. Hell who knows Joe Harris may find his way back too.

Do you watch the NBA at all?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:16:16 PM
What no one's really mentioning is that Simmons hasn't played meaningful basketball in eight months, and was last seen passing up layups and bricking free throws.
He showed up to camp out of shape then quickly left saying his heart and mind weren't in the game.
Who knows if/when he's going to be a useful basketball player again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 01:16:47 PM
Of course you win now.  That's what you do in professional sports in every league.  Bad NBA contracts are not hard to get off of.  Harden will ask out of Philly before his max will even be up anyway.

"At guard, from UCLA, number 0....Russell Westbrook"
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:18:01 PM
Harden will make the 76ers better now, but he has a not so stellar playoff history.

The 76ers will rue the day they traded away clutch playoff performer Ben Simmons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 10, 2022, 01:18:30 PM
They'll rue the day they traded away noted winner Ben Simmons.

Potato, pah-tato
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 10, 2022, 01:21:13 PM
Before we can know who won this trade,  an important question must be answered.

Is the strip club scene better or worse in Phiily compared to Brooklyn?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 01:25:34 PM
"At guard, from UCLA, number 0....Russell Westbrook"

Right.  How many different teams have gotten off his contract now?  It's not hard to do.

If you're suggesting that Russell Westbrook and James Harden are currently equal basketball players?  Well, not sure how to help you then.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:26:11 PM
How does the shooting get worse??

Drummond is a back up 5.

Simmons is the 4. Will play the small ball 5.

With Simmons you have an elite play maker who doesnt need shots. Surround by Durant and Kyrie. And two of the best shooters in the league. Hell who knows Joe Harris may find his way back too.

Do you watch the NBA at all?

Simmons is an excellent passer, but he's miles from an "elite playmaker." Hard to be a playmaker when your entire offensive repertoire is passing the ball. He's ineffective in the pick-and-roll, doesn't attack the rim, and can't threaten the defense with his shooting. His transition playmaking maybe gets close to elite, but he's mediocre at best in the half court.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 01:27:36 PM
How does the shooting get worse??

Drummond is a back up 5.

Simmons is the 4. Will play the small ball 5.

With Simmons you have an elite play maker who doesnt need shots. Surround by Durant and Kyrie. And two of the best shooters in the league. Hell who knows Joe Harris may find his way back too.

Do you watch the NBA at all?

The shooting gets worse because Blake Griffin, while not a good shooter, is a significantly better shooter than Ben Simmons is.

Fine, Drummond is the backup to Claxton.  Oh no, what will the NBA do!

I do watch the NBA.  You obviously don't if you think having two absolute non shooters on the court is a recipe for success and means Ben Simmons will be able to not shoot at all.

Here's evidence of Ben Simmons's incredible playmaking ability!  https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ben+simmons+passes+up+dunk&docid=607993320089665864&mid=53DBA17E48871488927453DBA17E488714889274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Right.  How many different teams have gotten off his contract now?  It's not hard to do.

If you're suggesting that Russell Westbrook and James Harden are currently equal basketball players?  Well, not sure how to help you then.

I'm sure 36 - 38 year old James Harden will be easy to move, you're right, my bad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 01:34:46 PM
But he wasn't playing for the Sixers, and he never was going to.  So it's not like they're losing anything by not having him on their roster.  So they essentially lost two picks that will fall in the 25-30 range, Seth Curry, and Andre Drummond.  They gained James Harden.  That's a large upgrade, to understate it massively.

Oh I agree,  I just don't think that means it was a loss by Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 01:35:14 PM
The shooting gets worse because Blake Griffin, while not a good shooter, is a significantly better shooter than Ben Simmons is.

Fine, Drummond is the backup to Claxton.  Oh no, what will the NBA do!

I do watch the NBA.  You obviously don't if you think having two absolute non shooters on the court is a recipe for success and means Ben Simmons will be able to not shoot at all.

Here's evidence of Ben Simmons's incredible playmaking ability!  https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ben+simmons+passes+up+dunk&docid=607993320089665864&mid=53DBA17E48871488927453DBA17E488714889274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

You clearly don't watch the NBA lol

Not that Aldridge is some elite floor spacer but hes the starting 5 next to Simmons. Not Drummond or Griffin that you implied

And yeah having 3 elite shooters when one of them is Durant who can get his shot from anywhere is all you need. You are probably the only person in america that doesnt think Simmons fits perfectly with this team. While adding Curry.

It was a fleecing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 10, 2022, 01:39:47 PM
I'm sure 36 - 38 year old James Harden will be easy to move, you're right, my bad.

That’s the nature of sports contracts. You absolutely take a couple bad years on the back end of a contract to get MVP level years on the front end of it. Every team in every league would take that trade off no hesitation whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
I'm sure 36 - 38 year old James Harden will be easy to move, you're right, my bad.

The NBA cap, currently at $112 million, could grow to as much as $175 million when the next TV deal gets done in 2024, if the league gets anything close to what it is asking for.
A max contract for Harden may still be an overpayment, but it won't be a cap killer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 01:40:25 PM
Porzingis boy has he fallen off.

SHipped to Wizards for damn Dinwiddie

Guess Bertans is going too
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:41:33 PM
You clearly don't watch the NBA lol

Not that Aldridge is some elite floor spacer but hes the starting 5 next to Simmons. Not Drummond or Griffin that you implied

And yeah having 3 elite shooters when one of them is Durant who can get his shot from anywhere is all you need. You are probably the only person in america that doesnt think Simmons fits perfectly with this team. While adding Curry.

It was a fleecing.

Who are these three elite shooters?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 01:43:37 PM
Who are these three elite shooters?

Mills, Curry, Irving, Durant......Harris if he ever returns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 10, 2022, 01:49:02 PM
The NBA cap, currently at $112 million, could grow to as much as $175 million when the next TV deal gets done in 2024, if the league gets anything close to what it is asking for.
A max contract for Harden may still be an overpayment, but it won't be a cap killer.

Sure, except Embiid is up for a super max deal at the end of next season as well. The 2023 season is going to be me/you/Fluff/Embiid/Harden on the floor for the Sixers. I'll come around and say if the Sixers can win a title and get to the Finals next year too, it's worth the Harden tax down the road. I just have major concerns about Harden coming up.

To be clear, as an NBA fan, this is an awesome trade. The East playoffs this year are going to be must see, and the Sixers absolutely have a great shot to take home a title this year. I hope the change of scenery motivates Harden to play lights out, and I'm interested to see what the Nets look like together, and worried the Bulls collective health isn't going to improve enough by the playoffs. Sitting in the corner with the title belt on their shoulders is the Bucks. I didn't even mention the Heat, the upstart Cavs, it's going to be fun as hell to watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 01:53:24 PM
Mills, Curry, Irving, Durant......Harris if he ever returns.

You and I have very different definitions of "elite," I guess.

Patty Mills is a career 39% shooter from three who has one year - in 13 seasons - in the top 10 in 3FG percentage, and two others in the top 20. Can you be elite if you're not even in the top 20 in 10 of your 13 seasons?
Exactly how many "elite" shooters do you think there are?

Irving also is a 39% three-point shooter who's had one season in the top 10 and one more in the top 20. So, in two of 11 seasons, he's been in the top 20.
This, again, is not elite as I see it.

Curry and Harris are excellent shooters, but super limited at everything else. You can't have both on the court at the same time.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 10, 2022, 01:56:15 PM
Big-name trades are always interesting, but it's not very common to see two names like this get traded for each other at all, let alone in-season.

Assuming Harden isn't really hurt and that he plays balls to the wall from here on out, it's hard for me to think the Sixers didn't "win" this trade for this season. They now have Harden, Embiid, Maxey, Harris, Thybulle and a few decent bench/role players. That will be formidable if everybody stays healthy. If they win the title - big if - any of the pain that could come in future years will have been worth it.

And maybe Harden's next deal is more along the lines of the huge-money 2- or 3-year deals that a lot of stars sign rather than a 5-year.

Curry can go off occasionally ... but he's also very streaky. He's averaged 8 ppg on 31% shooting since the middle of January. He ain't Steph. And Simmons hasn't played in so long, it's hard to know what to expect from him.

This could be good for the Nets, too, if Simmons can get up to speed by the playoffs, and if Durant is healthy, and if Kyrie gets vaccinated. Lots of ifs.

Down the line, who knows? Those draft picks could be worth something or next to nothing, and we'll see how Harden ages and how good Simmons can be.

This is fun stuff!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 01:56:51 PM
Would you try to pick-up Dragic if you were the Bucks?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 02:00:28 PM
You and I have very different definitions of "elite," I guess.

Patty Mills is a career 39% shooter from three who has one year - in 13 seasons - in the top 10 in 3FG percentage, and two others in the top 20. Can you be elite if you're not even in the top 20 in 10 of your 13 seasons?
Exactly how many "elite" shooters do you think there are?

Irving also is a 39% three-point shooter who's had one season in the top 10 and one more in the top 20. So, in two of 11 seasons, he's been in the top 20.
This, again, is not elite as I see it.

Curry and Harris are excellent shooters, but super limited at everything else. You can't have both on the court at the same time.

Honestly career wise elite is a bit strong for Mills. Hes very good. And does the job of the overall presmise. Keep teams from sagging off Simmons.

But yeah, we definitely have differing defintions of elite if you are going to cherry pick how you judge guys. So Curry and Harris cant do much else...but Kyrie gets dinged??

You do realize that 39% lifetime from 3 for a player like Kyrie who takes shots like Kyrie is absoltuely elite right?? And thats the whole idea. You have Simmons surrounded by a player like Kyrie who can make video game 3s, along side spot up shooters. Boom.

Kyrie and Durant could shoot Seth Curry % from 3.....if they had no other game and just sat an caught 3s as well.

Kyrie Irving is absolutely an elite shooter. Hes not Steph Curry who can do it off the bounce and be the best of all time. But hes elite. Hes better then just about every single other superstar that takes high degree of difficulty shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 02:10:27 PM
Honestly career wise elite is a bit strong for Mills. Hes very good. And does the job of the overall presmise. Keep teams from sagging off Simmons.

But yeah, we definitely have differing defintions of elite if you are going to cherry pick how you judge guys. So Curry and Harris cant do much else...but Kyrie gets dinged??

You do realize that 39% lifetime from 3 for a player like Kyrie who takes shots like Kyrie is absoltuely elite right?? And thats the whole idea. You have Simmons surrounded by a player like Kyrie who can make video game 3s, along side spot up shooters. Boom.

I'm not cherry-picking. I'm using data.
So your position here is that Kyrie's not-elite shooting actually is elite because he takes bad shots?

But yes, Simmons will be a better fit for the Nets because he's surrounded by four 39% or better three-point shooters .... exactly like he was in Philly last year (Curry, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, George Hill).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on February 10, 2022, 02:18:13 PM
I'm not cherry-picking. I'm using data.
So your position here is that Kyrie's not-elite shooting actually is elite because he takes bad shots?

But yes, Simmons will be a better fit for the Nets because he's surrounded by four 39% or better three-point shooters .... exactly like he was in Philly last year (Curry, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, George Hill).

You made a good argument until you insinuate the four 39% shooters in Philly = the four 39% shooters for the Nets.

And, yes, I get that wasn’t your point, but it kinda shot down the argument.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 02:19:30 PM
Sure, except Embiid is up for a super max deal at the end of next season as well. The 2023 season is going to be me/you/Fluff/Embiid/Harden on the floor for the Sixers. I'll come around and say if the Sixers can win a title and get to the Finals next year too, it's worth the Harden tax down the road. I just have major concerns about Harden coming up.


If you stick me in a corner, I can hit the three.  My defense is best described as "Joey-esque."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 02:23:20 PM
I'm not cherry-picking. I'm using data.
So your position here is that Kyrie's not-elite shooting actually is elite because he takes bad shots?

But yes, Simmons will be a better fit for the Nets because he's surrounded by four 39% or better three-point shooters .... exactly like he was in Philly last year (Curry, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, George Hill).

No im saying hes an elite shooter because he has the ability to get off more shots at a higher difficulty and on his own and still make them at a 39% clip. If you cant grasp that I truly dont think you can be helped.

Again, Kyrie is better than just about every other ball dominat superstar not named Steph from 3.

And now you are cherry picking. Tobias Harris is 36.4% for his career. But now use 1 year of his while discrediting Mills at 42.4% this year and calling him 39%.

Lets find some consistency
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 10, 2022, 02:23:37 PM
Obviously, much smaller deal, but the Hornets traded for Montrezl Harrell from the Wizards. Gave up very little: the well-traveled Ish Smith, G League center Vernon Carey and a 2nd-rounder.

They desperately needed rebounding, rim-protection and toughness, and when he is engaged Harrell provides all of that. He absolutely killed the Hornets earlier this season, relentlessly going after the ball and finishing with 24-18.

Hopefully he'll be motivated to play his best for the rest of this year at least, because the Hornets' once-promising season has gone into the crapper.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 10, 2022, 02:26:33 PM
Congrats to the Nets, they now have one guy that wants to play defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on February 10, 2022, 02:27:36 PM
No im saying hes an elite shooter because he has the ability to get off more shots at a higher difficulty and on his own and still make them at a 39% clip. If you cant grasp that I truly dont think you can be helped.

Again, Kyrie is better than just about every other ball dominat superstar not named Steph from 3.

And now you are cherry picking. Tobias Harris is 36.4% for his career. But now use 1 year of his while discrediting Mills at 42.4% this year and calling him 39%.

Lets find some consistency

I haven't watched enough of Mills to know either way, but Kyrie is absolutely an elite shooter. Percentage is meaningless without factoring in volume and shot creation. Especially in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
I haven't watched enough of Mills to know either way, but Kyrie is absolutely an elite shooter. Percentage is meaningless without factoring in volume and shot creation. Especially in the playoffs.

Yeah its insane to say that kyrie isnt elite

He could sit and drill 44% catch and shoot 3s in his sleep if he wanted to. But that would deminish his value as an all around shot maker and player
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on February 10, 2022, 02:33:08 PM
Yeah its insane to say that kyrie isnt elite

He could sit and drill 44% catch and shoot 3s in his sleep if he wanted to. But that would deminish his value as an all around shot maker and player

Not to mention there are only 50 guys in NBA history who shot 40% on 3s in their career. 39.1% on 6 attempts per game is absurdly good without even factoring in degree of difficulty.

Mills is at 39.2% for his career at almost five attempts per game. 6.7 attempts per game over the last three years. He shoots off the dribble a ton as well.

Even if we only use percentage, Mills and Kyrie rank 72nd and 74th all time.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_career.html
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 02:43:11 PM
If you cant grasp that I truly dont think you can be helped.


Sigh ... OK.

Quote
And now you are cherry picking. Tobias Harris is 36.4% for his career. But now use 1 year of his while discrediting Mills at 42.4% this year and calling him 39%.

Lets find some consistency

I'm entirely consistent. I said Simmons with the Nets will be surrounded by four 39% or better shooters, just as he was last year with the Sixers. I'm no math whiz, but doesn't 42% qualify as "39% or better"?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 02:44:24 PM
Not to mention there are only 50 guys in NBA history who shot 40% on 3s in their career. 39.1% on 6 attempts per game is absurdly good without even factoring in degree of difficulty.

Mills is at 39.2% for his career at almost five attempts per game. 6.7 attempts per game over the last three years. He shoots off the dribble a ton as well.

Even if we only use percentage, Mills and Kyrie rank 72nd and 74th all time.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_career.html

Yup Mills isnt a complete catch and shoot guy.

And when I said the Nets had shooters that doesnt just mean 3 pt shooters. Durant can knock down shots from anywhere at a better rate than Harris or Embiid could ever dream of.

So thats part of the point. Simmons will now have spacing in the playoffs because teams know that Kyrie and Durant can get any shot they want. Curry is as good as they get catch and shoot(Harris too if available) and Mills is a collect of both getting his own shot and spotting up.

Simmons will play small ball 5 at times and be surrounded by Curry/Mills/Durant/Kyrie at moments through a game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 02:47:07 PM
Sigh ... OK.

I'm entirely consistent. I said Simmons with the Nets will be surrounded by four 39% or better shooters, just as he was last year with the Sixers. I'm no math whiz, but doesn't 42% qualify as "39% or better"?

There is no consistency youre jumping between career and season to season averages.

Kyrie Irving is an elite shooter. I can say with confidence that every single person invovled in the NBA...executive, player or coach would agree with that statement. Every single one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on February 10, 2022, 02:49:00 PM
Would you try to pick-up Dragic if you were the Bucks?

He’d be a nice pickup but the general thought seems to be he’s going to Dallas with Doncic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 02:59:33 PM
There is no consistency youre jumping between career and season to season averages.

Kyrie Irving is an elite shooter. I can say with confidence that every single person invovled in the NBA...executive, player or coach would agree with that statement. Every single one.

Honestly, these are the lamest of arguments.
First it's "If you disagree with me, you must not watch the NBA."
Then it's "If you disagree with me, I can't help you."
And now it's "Everyone agrees with me in my imaginary poll of every single person in the NBA, so I'm right."
The equivalent of "because I said so."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 10, 2022, 03:00:58 PM
Yup Mills isnt a complete catch and shoot guy.

And when I said the Nets had shooters that doesnt just mean 3 pt shooters. Durant can knock down shots from anywhere at a better rate than Harris or Embiid could ever dream of.

So thats part of the point. Simmons will now have spacing in the playoffs because teams know that Kyrie and Durant can get any shot they want. Curry is as good as they get catch and shoot(Harris too if available) and Mills is a collect of both getting his own shot and spotting up.

Simmons will play small ball 5 at times and be surrounded by Curry/Mills/Durant/Kyrie at moments through a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_kvy6ssNVs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_kvy6ssNVs)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 10, 2022, 03:22:21 PM
Honestly, these are the lamest of arguments.
First it's "If you disagree with me, you must not watch the NBA."
Then it's "If you disagree with me, I can't help you."
And now it's "Everyone agrees with me in my imaginary poll of every single person in the NBA, so I'm right."
The equivalent of "because I said so."

Then boil it down, are you saying...

1) Kyrie is not an elite shooter?  Because his career 3P% is less than 40%?

2) Kyrie and Mills are no better than the guys he had around him shooting wise last year?  Aka Harris and George Hill

While I respect stats, non-advanced stats, like 3P% don't exactly take situations, roster, and system into account and can be lacking.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 10, 2022, 03:37:35 PM
Would you try to pick-up Dragic if you were the Bucks?



He ain't cummin' heer, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 03:41:16 PM
I do think this really, really helps the Bucks in terms of matching up defensively with these teams.  Before you had to worry about who guards the "other" guard that Jrue isn't guarding in the Nets matchup.  You had to decide who Donte could match up better with, Harden or Kyrie.  Now you can have Jrue solely on Kyrie, Grayson can run around the perimeter with Patty or Seth, Khris gets KD (I believe I saw some article that said Khris had the best defensive numbers of any defender on KD last year?) with Giannis roaming off of Simmons, and Brook plays their big.  If they go small then Pat chases around the other of Patty or Seth and Brook goes to the bench, or Giannis gets KD, Khris chases around the other perimeter player, and Brook plays Simmons and punishes them on the other end.  Brook can even play if the Nets go small and have KD/Simmons as their 5.  Giannis gets the KD matchup, Brook just ignores Simmons defensively and roams, and then the Bucks absolutely punish the fact that those are their "bigs" on the other end of the court.

Sixers it's Jrue on Harden, Brook on Embiid, Khris on Simmons, Giannis on Thybulle and roams, Grayson/Pat on Maxey.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 04:12:55 PM
1) Kyrie is not an elite shooter?  Because his career 3P% is less than 40%?

I do not consider Kyrie an elite 3-point shooter for several reasons, including 1) His career average* 2) He's only been among the league's 10 best once in an 10-year career, and he's been outside the top 20 in 9 of those 11 seasons.** and 3) A relatively small percentage of his shots are from distance***

* Someone pointed out that Kyrie's career percentage ranks him 74th all time, which sounds impressive until you see who the 10 just ahead of him:
Tyronn Lue
Patty Mills
Bogdan Bogdanovich
Danny Ferry
Bruce Bowen
Jared Dudley
Khris Middleton
Darren Collinson
Tony Snell
Hersey Hawkins
Which of these players do you consider "elite" at shooting? Not good. Not solid. Eiite.

** How can a guy be elite when he's not consistently among the best of his peers? What does elite even mean then?

*** 46.4% of Kyrie's career shots have come from 16 feet or beyond.
Compare that with some other "elite" shooters:
Steph Curry - 66.7%
Seth Curry - 69.1%
Klay Thompson - 64.5%
Joe Ingles - 70.5%
Zach LaVine - 52.2%
Damian Lilliard - 57%

I can throw in more, but hopefully you get the drift. I have a hard time arguing that a gjuy who takes the majority of his shots inside 15 feet - and more than 40% inside 10 feet - to be an elite shooter. He's an elite scorer, for sure, but not shooter.

Quote
2) Kyrie and Mills are no better than the guys he had around him shooting wise last year?  Aka Harris and George Hill

Nope, not what I said at all.


Quote
While I respect stats, non-advanced stats, like 3P% don't exactly take situations, roster, and system into account and can be lacking.

Could you point out some advanced stats that make the case for Kyrie being an elite shooter?

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: reinko on February 10, 2022, 04:13:10 PM
Kyrie can’t be elite this year if he is only playing in 1/2 the games.  Yeah, it’s a dumb bar argument, but it’s the truth.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 04:16:12 PM
Kyrie can’t be elite this year if he is only playing in 1/2 the games.  Yeah, it’s a dumb bar argument, but it’s the truth.


Just a guess, but I think NYC will lift their order preventing his participation in Brooklyn by the time the playoffs start.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 04:17:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_kvy6ssNVs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_kvy6ssNVs)

Not sure how that video applies to the bolded
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 04:18:31 PM
The only worry about the Sixers is that they'll shatter NBA records for free throw attempts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 04:20:41 PM
Honestly, these are the lamest of arguments.
First it's "If you disagree with me, you must not watch the NBA."
Then it's "If you disagree with me, I can't help you."
And now it's "Everyone agrees with me in my imaginary poll of every single person in the NBA, so I'm right."
The equivalent of "because I said so."

Thats because it isnt an arugment. Its a simple fact of you are wrong, and no one with an inkling of basketball knowledge would die on that hill with you.

There isn't any other way to put it. Kyrie Irving is elite at shooting and scoring the basketball
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 04:30:08 PM
Thats because it isnt an arugment. Its a simple fact of you are wrong, and no one with an inkling of basketball knowledge would die on that hill with you.

There isn't any other way to put it.]Kyrie Irving is elite at shooting and scoring the basketball

The goalposts are moving, I see.
Anyhow, I've supported my point of view with all kinds of data, of which you are free to agree or disagree support my case.
You've supported yours with childish declarations of being right and nothing else.
I'll look forward to seeing the results of your survey of every single NBA player, coach and executive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 10, 2022, 05:09:51 PM
I do not consider Kyrie an elite 3-point shooter for several reasons, including 1) His career average* 2) He's only been among the league's 10 best once in an 10-year career, and he's been outside the top 20 in 9 of those 11 seasons.** and 3) A relatively small percentage of his shots are from distance***

He's been over 40% in 4 of the last 5 seasons since he was in the top 10. He's within a 1-1.5%, give or take each season.  Its not like he's shooting 36% to the leaders 44%.

And then you look at the list, at how many are the primary scoring options on their respective teams, as opposed to guys like Joe Harris or Doug McDermott?  Not many, which is not moving goalposts, its extremely relevant to shots taken, defensive pressure/focus received, etc...

I'll get back to "small percentage"

* Someone pointed out that Kyrie's career percentage ranks him 74th all time, which sounds impressive until you see who the 10 just ahead of him:
Tyronn Lue
Patty Mills
Bogdan Bogdanovich
Danny Ferry
Bruce Bowen
Jared Dudley
Khris Middleton
Darren Collinson
Tony Snell
Hersey Hawkins
Which of these players do you consider "elite" at shooting? Not good. Not solid. Eiite.

** How can a guy be elite when he's not consistently among the best of his peers? What does elite even mean then?

I would consider Khris Middleton to be an elite shooter.  Anyone who puts up a 40/50/90 regular season is an elite shooter, period.  Speaking of, Kyrie is one of only 8 players to ever do it for a full season, including playoffs.

But regardless. None of those guys above him, save Mills and Bogdan and Middleton, took more than 2.5 3s a game for their career.  Kyrie is shooting that average on more than 6 attempts a game over most of his career.

Also, going 1 farther on that list, less than half a percent in career average higher...Reggie Miller.  Do you consider Reggie Miller an elite shooter?

*** 46.4% of Kyrie's career shots have come from 16 feet or beyond.
Compare that with some other "elite" shooters:
Steph Curry - 66.7%
Seth Curry - 69.1%
Klay Thompson - 64.5%
Joe Ingles - 70.5%
Zach LaVine - 52.2%
Damian Lilliard - 57%

I can throw in more, but hopefully you get the drift. I have a hard time arguing that a gjuy who takes the majority of his shots inside 15 feet - and more than 40% inside 10 feet - to be an elite shooter. He's an elite scorer, for sure, but not shooter.

But he still takes more 3s a game than all but Klay Thompson, Steph Curry, and Lillard, Lavine is comparable now.

He has a more rounded scorers game than more specialized shooters, sure, but when a guy is still taking 6+ 3s a game, I have a hard time seeing that he's not shooting from deep enough to be considered.

Hell, Durant's career 3P% is lower than Kyrie, he's had more seasons under 40% from 3, and I think his percentage from 16 feet is probably pretty comparable to Kyrie.  By your established metrics, Durant isn't an elite shooter.  If you say "nope, elite scorer, not shooter" then so be it, agree to disagree.

Could you point out some advanced stats that make the case for Kyrie being an elite shooter?

His true shooting percentage is top 5 among active guards, basically tied with Trae Young, in front of Klay, Lavine, George Hill, and others.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 06:01:36 PM
His true shooting percentage is top 5 among active guards, basically tied with Trae Young, in front of Klay, Lavine, George Hill, and others.

TS% incorporates two-point shots and free throws. Kyrie is a ridiculous finisher around the rim and a career 88% FT shooter, which boosts this metric for him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 10, 2022, 06:10:28 PM
TS% incorporates two-point shots and free throws. Kyrie is a ridiculous finisher around the rim and a career 88% FT shooter, which boosts this metric for him.

Sure but its also a metric that takes more than just simple shots attempts and makes into consideration.

You have your mind made up and your data points to support your opinion.  Which is totally fine, not like you're saying he's a bum.  But its not just empty conjecture and qualitative statements that support that Kyrie shoots the ball very very well and that being said, its not absurd to think he'd be a quite capable 42-44% catch and shoot, spot up shooter if he floated on the wings for looks like Seth Curry or Joe Harris.

Still legit curious about Durant and Reggie Miller though based on what I said.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 10, 2022, 06:15:35 PM
The goalposts are moving, I see.
Anyhow, I've supported my point of view with all kinds of data, of which you are free to agree or disagree support my case.
You've supported yours with childish declarations of being right and nothing else.
I'll look forward to seeing the results of your survey of every single NBA player, coach and executive.

I havent moved any goal posts. I called him an elite shooter.

You like someone who just started watching basketball would say, simply quoted 3 point % and thats it. Again, i cannot help you if thats all your simple mind willl allow you to go to.

Steve Novak>>Steph Curry at shooting. Steph Curry is little brother when it comes to shooting.

Your logic, not mine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 08:08:23 PM
Uhhhh....Doncic just dropped 28pts in the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 10, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
Uhhhh....Doncic just dropped 28pts in the 1st quarter.

Serge leaves and there goes Clipper defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on February 10, 2022, 08:21:36 PM
I havent moved any goal posts. I called him an elite shooter.

You like someone who just started watching basketball would say, simply quoted 3 point % and thats it. Again, i cannot help you if thats all your simple mind willl allow you to go to.

Steve Novak>>Steph Curry at shooting. Steph Curry is little brother when it comes to shooting.

Your logic, not mine.

Not my logic, but whatever.  Nobody is changing anyone's mind.
That said, get back to us when your survey results are in.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 10, 2022, 09:47:49 PM
Suns playing Playoff basketball. Bucks playing Lindell Wiggington.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2022, 11:04:34 PM
The Suns are clearly the favorites to win the chip.  Maybe the Bucks can get there with Lopez but right now the Suns are just better and deeper on both ends of the floor. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 11, 2022, 12:17:28 AM
The Suns are clearly the favorites to win the chip.  Maybe the Bucks can get there with Lopez but right now the Suns are just better and deeper on both ends of the floor.

I don’t even know if the Suns are the favs in the West.  They have the best record but they lost 2 of 3 to the Warriors, and their one win was on an very uncharacteristically bad night for Curry.  They’ve also not played the Warriors since Klay came back
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2022, 12:30:59 AM
I don’t even know if the Suns are the favs in the West.  They have the best record but they lost 2 of 3 to the Warriors, and their one win was on an very uncharacteristically bad night for Curry.  They’ve also not played the Warriors since Klay came back

I think Ayton and Bridges have gotten better and they just have more ways to beat you than the Dubs.  In the East I think it's pretty wide open.  The Bucks are not the same defensively and I don't think Middleton has been as good this year. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 11, 2022, 06:34:47 AM
The Suns are clearly the favorites to win the chip.  Maybe the Bucks can get there with Lopez but right now the Suns are just better and deeper on both ends of the floor.

The Bucks played the same defense they played in games 1 and 2 of the Finals last year. If this game meant more, they would not have played that defense, and would not have been playing Lindell Wiggington.

It’s always come down to Brook for the Bucks. If he’s 90%+ of what he was, I wouldn’t pick any team in the league over them. If he’s not, I wouldn’t pick them to make an ECF.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 11, 2022, 06:54:41 AM
I don’t even know if the Suns are the favs in the West.  They have the best record but they lost 2 of 3 to the Warriors, and their one win was on an very uncharacteristically bad night for Curry.  They’ve also not played the Warriors since Klay came back

One of the Suns losses to the Warriors was in Golden State on a back to back as well though. Warriors were not on a back to back.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2022, 08:04:36 AM
Let's not place too much on a regular season game regardless.  The Bucks were on the last night of a four game west coast trip.  They went 3-1 on that trip.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 11, 2022, 08:06:21 AM
The Suns are probably the best team in the NBA, but as we've seen, that doesn't mean they're coming out of the West. But they look better and more technically sound than last year. Yes, the Bucks did not treat this like a Finals game, but that doesn't mean it means nothing. You can see the impact of not being able to play drop defense (one reason Ibaka is so important), and you can bet that the Suns wouldn't lean on Paul to bring the ball 90 feet like they did in games 3 & 4 if Jrue is going to be hounding him. If the Suns adjusted sooner, the Bucks may not have won the whole thing.

The Bucks aren't as good as they were last year (at least right now), but they have a MUCH easier road out of the East than the Suns do the West. That probably puts them about even in terms of title odds, but doesn't mean they're playing at the same level as the Suns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 11, 2022, 08:07:22 AM
I dunno. The East looks tougher than the West this season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 11, 2022, 08:11:08 AM
Just saw this in The Athletic:

Milwaukee Bucks shooting guard Pat Connaughton fractured his right fourth metacarpal in Thursday night's 131-107 loss to the Phoenix Suns. Connaughton, who shoots right-handed, exited in the third quarter and was later ruled out for the remainder of the game with the injury.

"We're trying to figure out who will see him next, what the next step is," Bucks coach Mike Budenholzer said after the game. "Unfortunate, but I think we're hopeful that he'll be able to return. ... When that is, not exactly sure. But we'll see."

The injury occurred while Connaughton was defending Chris Paul on a drive to the rim, eventually fouling the Suns point guard with 3:40 remaining in the third quarter. Following the play, Connaughton was seen attending to that right hand and headed to the locker room while holding it.

The news comes hours after the Bucks lost depth at his position, trading Donte DiVincenzo to the Sacramento Kings as part of a four-team deal also involving the Detroit Pistons and Los Angeles Clippers. DiVincenzo, Milwaukee's first-round pick in 2018, was averaging 7.2 points per game in 17 appearances this year.

Connaughton is having a career season, averaging 10.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 27.2 minutes per game. The Bucks are 35-21 on the season, sitting at second in the Eastern Conference.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
The Bucks can call me. One of my friends is a top hand surgeon in MKE. I can get Pat an appointment as soon as the Bucks land at Mitchell, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 11, 2022, 09:08:26 AM
One of the Suns losses to the Warriors was in Golden State on a back to back as well though. Warriors were not on a back to back.

That’s fine, I’m not saying the Warriors are definitively better either.  I’m just saying it’s probably a flip at this point and wouldn’t crown the Suns as favs, conference or league
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
The Bucks can call me. One of my friends is a top hand surgeon in MKE. I can get Pat an appointment as soon as the Bucks land at Mitchell, hey?

Hand surgeons are ridiculously talented.  Your friend must have some serious skills. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 11, 2022, 09:20:59 AM
The East could be wild. We have no idea how Harden meshes in Philly or what the Nets will look like with Simmons.  But man, oh man, do I want to see a Sixers vs Nets series!

But I'm not sure either team can beat the Bucks.  Harden has his lowest O rating since his rookie year. Still a solid 111, but not in the 120 range of his prime.  Can Harden regain his elite form by the playoffs?  I don't think that's a given.

And for the Nets, we will have to wait and see 1) when Simmons returns, 2) how long it takes him to return to peak form, and 3) how he meshes with the roster, especially with Kyrie.  Again, it's not a given that the Nets reach championship form by the playoffs.

I really think either the Bucks or Heat come out of the East. The Bulls are this year's version of the Hawks. Sure they could win a playoff series, maybe even make the ECF, but I don't see them making the Finals.

The Cavs have an elite defense, but I don't think they have enough offense to make the Finals.

But there are also some dangerous lower seeds in the East.  The Celtics, Hornets, and Hawks all have the talent to make life difficult in the 1st round.  Should be a fun playoffs!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2022, 10:29:23 AM
Yeah....I think the East is actually a harder road than the West this year.  I honestly have no idea who the favorite is right now but if Durant is right they have the ultimate sledgehammer and serious motivation.  And the more I look at that trade, the more I think Philly got fleeced.   

Initially my thought was that Brooklyn is gearing towards next year but they may have time to figure it out.   I know this isn't news but Durant can't be guarded.  If he gets more opportunities because Harden is a toddler that helps Brooklyn.   They will be much better defensively and have plenty of guys to space the floor.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on February 11, 2022, 10:40:04 AM
The Bucks weren’t exactly juggernauts last year in the regular season. Their stats when their Big 3 play in games is still elite. With the shortened offseason and Olympics, I think they are just trying to peak for the playoffs.

I actually think if Brook can come back in the regular season, they are probably set up better than they were last year. Although, the Pat C injury definitely doesn’t help. They still have to get some guys on the buyout market.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2022, 10:43:15 AM
The Bucks weren’t exactly juggernauts last year in the regular season. Their stats when their Big 3 play in games is still elite. With the shortened offseason and Olympics, I think they are just trying to peak for the playoffs.

I actually think if Brook can come back in the regular season, they are probably set up better than they were last year. Although, the Pat C injury definitely doesn’t help. They still have to get some guys on the buyout market.

Who Cheebs? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 11, 2022, 12:04:53 PM
I dunno. The East looks tougher than the West this season.

That could be an issue though for whoever the East representative is.

Playing three tough series versus the Warriors and the Suns who seems extremely likely to roll early and face each other in the WCF.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 11, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
That could be an issue though for whoever the East representative is.

Playing three tough series versus the Warriors and the Suns who seems extremely likely to roll early and face each other in the WCF.

Perhaps. Or the East winner will be "battle tested"!

The good thing is we'll get to see.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on February 11, 2022, 02:07:16 PM
From today’s Action Network article by Matt Moore:


The Nets have a ridiculous amount of shooters, especially if Joe Harris comes back this season. Irving, Durant, Harris, Curry, and Patty Mills are all elite. But of course you can only play so many on the floor together.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 11, 2022, 08:28:10 PM
Lol just saw a Tweet about Jimmy Butler saying he wants the NBA to allow brawls. The Tweet was along the lines of, “Jokic broke his teammate’s neck and he just stood there.” So true. Well, of course, until they were separated by about 90 feet and 100 people when he went all tough guy.

But that Tweet was so good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 14, 2022, 09:40:13 PM
DeRozan is something else man. Was at the UC tonight and it felt like everything he shot in the fourth quarter was automatically going in.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 15, 2022, 12:27:13 PM
Bembry is a nice addition to the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2022, 01:03:11 PM
DeRozan is something else man. Was at the UC tonight and it felt like everything he shot in the fourth quarter was automatically going in.

DeRozan is no worse than top-5 MVP candidate IMHO. Incredible numbers, and a huge impact on an otherwise young team that seemed at least a year away when the season began. Very good argument could be made for top-3.

Embiid and Giannis in some order, followed by DeRozan and Ja in some order? Then maybe Jokic, Steph and Paul. Luka can get in the mix too if he stays healthy and Mavs keep winning.

But I love DeRozan's game and what he's meant for the Bulls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 15, 2022, 01:13:33 PM
DeRozan is no worse than top-5 MVP candidate IMHO. Incredible numbers, and a huge impact on an otherwise young team that seemed at least a year away when the season began. Very good argument could be made for top-3.

Embiid and Giannis in some order, followed by DeRozan and Ja in some order? Then maybe Jokic, Steph and Paul. Luka can get in the mix too if he stays healthy and Mavs keep winning.

But I love DeRozan's game and what he's meant for the Bulls.

To me it's Jokic and Embiid at 1 and 1A.  Then Giannis at 3.  Then Steph, Ja, Luka, DeRozan in some order.  I think the top 3 have kind of separated themselves from the rest, though.  I think Jokic and Giannis both have some "voter fatigue" from being the MVPs of the last 3 seasons, and they're still widely considered to be in the top 3 right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on February 15, 2022, 01:43:35 PM
To me it's Jokic and Embiid at 1 and 1A.  Then Giannis at 3.  Then Steph, Ja, Luka, DeRozan in some order.  I think the top 3 have kind of separated themselves from the rest, though.  I think Jokic and Giannis both have some "voter fatigue" from being the MVPs of the last 3 seasons, and they're still widely considered to be in the top 3 right now.

VORP rankings:

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Embiid

That's how I'd rank them as MVP candidates.  But like you said, voter fatigue could cost Giannis and Jokic since Embiid is so close.

With Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr both injured, Jokic has done a remarkable job keeping the Nuggets a playoff team.  I feel like he's really getting shortchanged in the MVP discussion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 15, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
VORP rankings:

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Embiid

That's how I'd rank them as MVP candidates.  But like you said, voter fatigue could cost Giannis and Jokic since Embiid is so close.

With Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr both injured, Jokic has done a remarkable job keeping the Nuggets a playoff team.  I feel like he's really getting shortchanged in the MVP discussion.

Jokic currently has the highest PER in the history of the NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2022, 02:49:38 PM
Yeah, I didn't mean to diminish Jokic at all. I do think where the team finishes will influence some voters, though. And BLM makes a good point about "voter fatigue" -- that's why Barkley and Malone were able to win MVPs when Jordan obviously should have.

As for DeRozan, there was a pretty long stretch where the Bulls had one player after another out with Covid or injuries, and he was the constant as they hung in there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 15, 2022, 09:25:11 PM
Take a look at Giannis' stat line tonight when you get a chance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2022, 11:49:33 PM
Take a look at Giannis' stat line tonight when you get a chance.

Good thing the Bucks traded his azz. He'll never amount to anything.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2022, 09:13:16 AM
Lol at LeBron Tweeting that the Dodgers and Lakers should join the Rams for their championship parade.  The dude just cannot let other athletes get the limelight without inserting himself.  Not to mention they're not even the reigning champions in their league anymore.

Because nobody has given him the credit and respect he deserves, let me be the first to say congratulations King, on your Mickey Mouse title.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2022, 02:31:20 PM
Giannis now leads the NBA in points per game while being 54th in minutes per game.  He also leads Embiid in just about every efficiency category.  If the season ended today it probably should be Giannis or Jokic, with Embiid a very close third for MVP.  But a lot of game left.  It'll be interesting to see how things change if teams start getting complete (Harden with the Sixers, Brook and Pat with the Bucks, Murray and Porter Jr. with the Nuggets) after the All Star Break.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on February 16, 2022, 02:53:17 PM
It should be Jokic, but it likely won't be.

As you mentioned earlier, best PER in NBA history. Porter and Murray out all season. Their bench is terrible. He's dragging them to a playoff spot.

Giannis has been excellent as well but unless the Bucks get the 1 seed, I don't think he should get it over Jokic. Embiid will likely get it due to voter fatigue.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 16, 2022, 09:39:59 PM
Bulls signing their Giannis stopper in Tristan Thompson.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 16, 2022, 09:48:46 PM
Bulls signing their Giannis stopper in Tristan Thompson.

He’ll be too busy procreating to put in any defensive work
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 16, 2022, 10:29:47 PM
Not that it matters (they weren't going anywhere) but Anthony Davis could be out for the year.  That looked bad. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 17, 2022, 09:26:18 AM
I've never been a fan of the "combo stat," as in ... "He's only the 8th player in NBA history to score 30 points on 60% shooting, with 8 rebounds and 8 assists in 4 straight games." I actually chuckle when the ESPNers (or other talking heads) call that a "record."

However, this seems pretty impressive to me ...

DeMar DeRozan became the first player in NBA history to score 35 or more points while shooting 50 percent or better from the floor in seven straight games.

I mean, think about all the great scorers these last 75 years -- including 7-footers whose average shooting distance was 2 feet from the basket. It's a little surprising that neither Wilt nor Shaq nor Kareem ever did that.

DeRozan lives 15-20 feet from the hoop. Damn, what a season he's had.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 17, 2022, 09:39:35 AM
Take a look at Giannis' stat line tonight when you get a chance.

the dude scored 50 points taking only 21 shots in 36 minutes plus 14 bounds and 4 assists
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 17, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
Bucks should have listened to the vaccine & NBA personnel expert and "traded his azz" I guess.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 17, 2022, 12:44:56 PM
I've never been a fan of the "combo stat," as in ... "He's only the 8th player in NBA history to score 30 points on 60% shooting, with 8 rebounds and 8 assists in 4 straight games." I actually chuckle when the ESPNers (or other talking heads) call that a "record."



DeMar DeRozan became the first player in NBA history to score 35 or more points while shooting 50 percent or better from the floor in seven straight games.

I mean, think about all the great scorers these last 75 years -- including 7-footers whose average shooting distance was 2 feet from the basket. It's a little surprising that neither Wilt nor Shaq nor Kareem ever did that.

DeRozan lives 15-20 feet from the hoop. Damn, what a season he's had.

They guy has been ridiculously good all year long.  I would probably slot him 3rd for MVP.  What I love about him is he really hasn't changed his game at all.  This idea that you have to shoot threes or lay-ups in this era to be great is patently false.  It's more that guys don't have the mid-range gane like DeRozen or Wade.  It doesn't seem like Pop had any interest in building around him.  Just a tremendous pick-up for the Bulls.  He has had his playoff struggles but he just looks so comfortable out there shredding dudes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on February 17, 2022, 06:12:27 PM
Take a look at Giannis' stat line tonight when you get a chance.

With all due respect to the other guys, the only world (which so happens to be the world we frequent) in which Giannis is not the MVP is the one where voters are just bored with the fact that Giannis repeatedly does all-time sh!t and one ups himself.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 17, 2022, 07:36:19 PM
With all due respect to the other guys, the only world (which so happens to be the world we frequent) in which Giannis is not the MVP is the one where voters are just bored with the fact that Giannis repeatedly does all-time sh!t and one ups himself.

I agree with you GB.  Truthfully I don't think he's gotten the help this year and Lopez is a big loss.  It's pretty simple:  Giannis' A game is vastly superior to every other player.  He just does things and moves at his height and weight that we will very likely never see again. 

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 17, 2022, 09:51:15 PM
Very poor execution and coaching from the Bucks under 4 mins.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on February 23, 2022, 08:14:40 AM
Listening to Zach Lowe's podcast with Van Gundy as the guest yesterday and Van Gundy listed his top 3 MVP candidates.  He says Jokic 1 (totally fine), Embiid 2 (fair enough)...DeRozan 3.  I've seen people who have had a list of the top 5 and don't include Giannis, but do include people like Chris Paul.

Just speaking on DeRozan (who should be named as a candidate, but realistically the only 3 that should have any real chance are Jokic, Embiid, Giannis), he's averaging 28.1 points, 5.2 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 0.3 blocks, 0.9 steals, 2.3 turnovers with an eFG% of 53.3% while playing 35.6 minutes and taking 19.9 shots per game.

Compare that to Giannis who is averaging 29.4 points (2nd in the league by tenths of a point to Embiid), 11.2 rebounds, 6.0 assists, 1.4 blocks, 1.0 steals, 3.3 turnovers with an eFG% of 57.9% while playing 32.7 minutes and taking 18.5 shots per game.

Giannis is widely thought of as one of the top two players in the world right now, and is still criminally underrated.  I'm not even trying to drag DeRozan down, he's had an awesome season.  But it's absolutely absurd to have Giannis (or Embiid and Jokic, but they are in basically everyone's top 3, especially Embiid) anywhere other than the top 3 of the MVP race right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on February 23, 2022, 08:33:14 AM
It’s almost as if there’s value in saying something that’s no so controversial that people immediately dismiss you, but controversial enough to have people continue the discussion and come back to your podcast/show. It’s no different that what Stephen A Smith has been doing for decades.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on February 23, 2022, 08:50:17 AM
Fair or not ... the Bucks are the defending champs and were expected to excel again, while the Bulls were bad last season and weren't expected to contend for much if anything this season. So you have the good ol' "expectations factor" working strongly in DeRozan's favor.

Throw in a little "Giannis fatigue," and you get DeRozan receiving more love than Giannis from some.

I'm thinking MVP is Embiid's to lose. If the Sixers do a good job incorporating Harden and finish strong, Embiid will win it. Who finishes after that only matters for contract clauses, gamblers and interwebs discussions like this one!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on February 23, 2022, 10:00:36 AM
Has anyone watched much of Bronny James?  Is he that good of a prospect that it's a sure thing he gets drafted in 2024 like LBJ seems to think?  Or is it just that GM LeBron always gets his way and will get his way again in 2024?

He's a highly ranked prospect, but he's like 25-50 in most places, not top 5.  (It also begs the question that if he wasn't the son of LeBron James, would he be a top 50 prosepct?)  Top 50 guys of course can be one and dones, but they're far from guaranteed to be that.

No pressure, kid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on February 23, 2022, 09:14:06 PM
Has anyone watched much of Bronny James?  Is he that good of a prospect that it's a sure thing he gets drafted in 2024 like LBJ seems to think?  Or is it just that GM LeBron always gets his way and will get his way again in 2024?

He's a highly ranked prospect, but he's like 25-50 in most places, not top 5.  (It also begs the question that if he wasn't the son of LeBron James, would he be a top 50 prosepct?)  Top 50 guys of course can be one and dones, but they're far from guaranteed to be that.

No pressure, kid.

My guess is he gets drafted because Lebron wants him to. He's a good player, but his stock has been dropping each year. Used to be a 5-star, now faded to 4-star.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 23, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
Has anyone watched much of Bronny James?  Is he that good of a prospect that it's a sure thing he gets drafted in 2024 like LBJ seems to think?  Or is it just that GM LeBron always gets his way and will get his way again in 2024?

He's a highly ranked prospect, but he's like 25-50 in most places, not top 5.  (It also begs the question that if he wasn't the son of LeBron James, would he be a top 50 prosepct?)  Top 50 guys of course can be one and dones, but they're far from guaranteed to be that.

No pressure, kid.

It will be like Wade’s kid who got signed by the Jazz G League team because dad owns the team. Bronny will be signed by whatever super team LeBron has moved on to at the time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on February 23, 2022, 09:19:35 PM
It will be like Wade’s kid who got signed by the Jazz G League team because dad owns the team. Bronny will be signed by whatever super team LeBron has moved on to at the time.

He’s better than Zaire Wade, but he’s a fringe top 50 guy, certainly not some slam dunk draft pick.  Lebron is an incredible basketball player but we know he’s not a great talent evaluator
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 23, 2022, 10:09:46 PM
Naming that young man "Bronny" was another poor decision.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on February 23, 2022, 10:18:01 PM
Naming that young man "Bronny" was another poor decision.

He is Lebron jr...."Bronny" is just a nickname.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on February 23, 2022, 10:25:36 PM
He is Lebron jr...."Bronny" is just a nickname.

Oh.  I'm not sure that was a great decision either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 24, 2022, 07:28:41 AM
Oh.  I'm not sure that was a great decision either.

Was George Bush naming his kid George Jr not a great decision?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 24, 2022, 09:02:00 AM
Then there's George Foreman, all 6 of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 02, 2022, 10:39:59 PM
Wow.  I just saw that Bucks game ending.  Maybe that wakes them up?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 04, 2022, 08:46:30 PM
Sentence Derrick Jones Jr. to death.

Grayson could’ve died and might die of CTE.

PS. Very dumb thing to do in a tie game in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 04, 2022, 09:16:10 PM
Fun game. Big responses both ways. Have to think Jrue will get the DeRozan assignment earlier if they meet in the Playoffs. Wes was no match. Jrue’s defense in the 4th shut him down. And then he balled out offensively down the stretch too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on March 04, 2022, 09:34:18 PM
Sentence Derrick Jones Jr. to death.

Grayson could’ve died and might die of CTE.

PS. Very dumb thing to do in a tie game in the 4th quarter.

Can you imagine if that was reversed? The uproar would be insane.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 04, 2022, 09:39:05 PM
Tristan Thompson -25 in 20 minutes. At least he talks a big game!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 05, 2022, 09:21:07 AM
Sentence Derrick Jones Jr. to death.

Grayson could’ve died and might die of CTE.

PS. Very dumb thing to do in a tie game in the 4th quarter.

And Grayson got up like nothing even happened.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 05, 2022, 09:25:53 AM
And Grayson got up like nothing even happened.

The Bulls have a bright future in front of them of losing over and over in the Eastern Conference semi-finals if they’re lucky
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 05, 2022, 09:43:28 AM
All jokes aside, Bulls-Bucks could be a fun series if all players are healthy. There's a chance that the Bulls are boat-raced with a healthy Lopez - there's no one at the 4 or 5 that can deal with Giannis.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 12:12:36 AM
I see that the Lakers are 9 games under .500. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 10, 2022, 07:30:31 AM
I see that the Lakers are 9 games under .500.

Yes.

And yet they're still going to get to play in the play in games.  The Timberwolves are 9 games over .500, the Pels are 12 games under .500, 10.5 games separate them in the standings, yet the Pels could have the chance to win one game on the road and make the Playoffs over the Timberwolves.

That is very stupid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 10:16:19 AM
Yes.

And yet they're still going to get to play in the play in games.  The Timberwolves are 9 games over .500, the Pels are 12 games under .500, 10.5 games separate them in the standings, yet the Pels could have the chance to win one game on the road and make the Playoffs over the Timberwolves.

That is very stupid.

Agreed.  That it beyond idiotic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on March 10, 2022, 10:57:48 AM
Giannis casually putting up 39 and 43 points in back to back games and the Bucks are in the middle of a 6 game winning streak. Meanwhile Jokic also put up an absurd line last night: 38/18/7.

For the first time in a while, it seems like this MVP race will be down to the wire, or at least up for debate in the final stretch. Even as a Bucks fan, I think it's Jokic's to lose at this point. His stats and efficiency are off the charts. But if the Bucks manage to snag the top seed in the East I think Giannis will become the favorite.

Respectfully, the only case Embiid has at this point is the fact that he hasn't won the award yet; voter fatigue is real. DeRozen and Ja Morant have had incredible years but are still a tier below. Anyone who tells you different are either a Bulls fan or only watch highlights.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 10, 2022, 12:03:41 PM
Giannis casually putting up 39 and 43 points in back to back games and the Bucks are in the middle of a 6 game winning streak. Meanwhile Jokic also put up an absurd line last night: 38/18/7.

For the first time in a while, it seems like this MVP race will be down to the wire, or at least up for debate in the final stretch. Even as a Bucks fan, I think it's Jokic's to lose at this point. His stats and efficiency are off the charts. But if the Bucks manage to snag the top seed in the East I think Giannis will become the favorite.

Respectfully, the only case Embiid has at this point is the fact that he hasn't won the award yet; voter fatigue is real. DeRozen and Ja Morant have had incredible years but are still a tier below. Anyone who tells you different are either a Bulls fan or only watch highlights.


Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are all deserving. I think Embiid will get it because the other 2 guys have already won. That's the way the NBA works - or else MJ would have several more MVP trophies.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2022, 06:29:10 PM

Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are all deserving. I think Embiid will get it because the other 2 guys have already won. That's the way the NBA works - or else MJ would have several more MVP trophies.

I tend to agree Embiid will get it, but he should be tier 1b behind the other two. Giannis has been the best all around player for the past several months. Meanwhile, the Nuggets - with all their injuries - have no business being as good as they are, and that's all credit to Jokic
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 12, 2022, 07:55:51 PM
Brook could return next week. That would be incredible to get him a dozen plus games in the regular season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 12, 2022, 08:35:38 PM
Of note, these Bucks uniforms with the 90s era side accents are incredible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 13, 2022, 05:00:23 PM
Bembry=done, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on March 13, 2022, 08:21:18 PM
Brook back tomorrow
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 13, 2022, 08:29:42 PM
Brook back tomorrow

Amazing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 13, 2022, 08:37:53 PM
I just noticed Phoenix is up 48-22 on the Lakers at the end of the 1Q. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 15, 2022, 07:21:22 PM
Kyrie isnt an elite shooter though
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 15, 2022, 09:10:30 PM
Kyrie’s last 8 games have been SPECIAL.   It’s almost like he watched KAT last night and was like “bet” and did it just a bit better.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 15, 2022, 10:37:27 PM
Would these guys win the NCAA tournament?


D. Wade (Age 27-30)
J. Holiday
J. Morant
S. Curry
K. Irving
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 15, 2022, 11:30:05 PM
Would these guys win the NCAA tournament?


D. Wade (Age 27-30)
J. Holiday
J. Morant
S. Curry
K. Irving

Would 2 surefire HOFers, one of the best pure scorers ever, a budding superstar, and an incredible defensive guard beat a team of guys that have 2, maybe 3 NBA players at best?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 16, 2022, 12:30:25 AM
Would 2 surefire HOFers, one of the best pure scorers ever, a budding superstar, and an incredible defensive guard beat a team of guys that have 2, maybe 3 NBA players at best?

You don't think they would be concerned with Gonzaga or Zona's size?  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 01:28:27 AM
You don't think they would be concerned with Gonzaga or Zona's size?  :)

Sure, they let Timme or Koloko get theirs, but there is no way anyone is keeping up with them on the perimeter.

Warriors won titles with 6'6 Draymond essentially playing the 5 for stretches.  I think Holiday could anchor a zone against college talent.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 16, 2022, 08:33:35 AM
They wouldn't win a game by less than 55.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on March 16, 2022, 08:36:51 AM
Sure, they let Timme or Koloko get theirs, but there is no way anyone is keeping up with them on the perimeter.

Warriors won titles with 6'6 Draymond essentially playing the 5 for stretches.  I think Holiday could anchor a zone against college talent.

Yep and any college player over 6'6" would foul out in the first half with those guys screaming down the lane every trip.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 16, 2022, 08:54:47 AM
You don't think they would be concerned with Gonzaga or Zona's size?  :)

Since you put Wades age as 27-30.

Im assuming you are putting all of these guys in their NBA primes??

They would eviscerate every single college team you throw at them by like 60+ a game
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 16, 2022, 09:09:57 AM
Since you put Wades age as 27-30.

Im assuming you are putting all of these guys in their NBA primes??

They would eviscerate every single college team you throw at them by like 60+ a game
Depends. Is Wojo coaching them? <Leaves the chat>
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 12:34:27 PM
Since you put Wades age as 27-30.

Im assuming you are putting all of these guys in their NBA primes??

They would eviscerate every single college team you throw at them by like 60+ a game

Hell, they would eviscerate every team with a 40 year old Wade and Curry, Holiday, and Kyrie (in a week) on the wrong side of 30
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 16, 2022, 12:45:29 PM
Hell, they would eviscerate every team with a 40 year old Wade and Curry, Holiday, and Kyrie (in a week) on the wrong side of 30

Yeah.

I mean, you could put Wade alone as he is today on like Montana State and they could go on a big run.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 16, 2022, 01:01:20 PM
Yeah.

I mean, you could put Wade alone as he is today on like Montana State and they could go on a big run.

People underestimate how bad most of college basketball is
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 16, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
People underestimate how bad most of college basketball is

And/or how good NBA players are.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 16, 2022, 01:24:12 PM
And/or how good NBA players are.

The worst nba team will whoop any college team
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 01:24:58 PM
People underestimate how bad most of college basketball is

Mike Daum was a force of nature, did whatever he wanted, didn’t get a sniff of the NBA.

Look at ol Frank Kaminsky, dude is wallpaper in the NBA. 

People overestimate college bigs.  I mean Cockburn probably won’t get drafted.  Oscar Tshiebwe is probably the best big in the NCAA this year and he’s a second rounder at best.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 16, 2022, 01:52:29 PM
The worst nba team will whoop any college team

An NBA “all-star” team of ten guys no one ever heard of would win easily.

Heck, a G League team would roll over any college team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 16, 2022, 04:40:20 PM
The worst nba team will whoop any college team
Could Gonzaga beat the Jaguars??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 16, 2022, 04:50:05 PM
Could Gonzaga beat the Jaguars??

They’d beat the A’s after all is said and done
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 16, 2022, 08:09:53 PM
Okay.....let's change one variable.  If Wade, Holiday, Morant, Curry, and Kyrie were all 21 could they still handle a team with bigs?  My thought was they would win every game by 30 or more but was just looking for confirmation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on March 16, 2022, 11:51:20 PM
Wes makes a couple big defensive plays and a late three to help the Bucks lock one up tonight.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 16, 2022, 11:52:53 PM
Okay.....let's change one variable.  If Wade, Holiday, Morant, Curry, and Kyrie were all 21 could they still handle a team with bigs?  My thought was they would win every game by 30 or more but was just looking for confirmation.

You could find the 5 players that are the combination of smallest and least skilled NBA players and they still run through the NCAA Tournament.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 17, 2022, 04:06:14 AM
How would the Mets rotation fare in the CWS?


Anyways, are all Bulls fans demanding Marcus Smart be shot to the moon for injuring Steph?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 17, 2022, 03:12:39 PM
You could find the 5 players that are the combination of smallest and least skilled NBA players and they still run through the NCAA Tournament.
We could start that team with Markus, and Sam Hauser. Too soon?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 17, 2022, 03:16:22 PM
We could start that team with Markus, and Sam Hauser. Too soon?

I like it. Letter writing tears team NBA apart.

But that’s just it. The all time leader in scoring in the best basketball conference ever formed can’t get time on an NBA court. The NBA game is just about an entirely different sport.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 17, 2022, 07:37:51 PM
I like it. Letter writing tears team NBA apart.

But that’s just it. The all time leader in scoring in the best basketball conference ever formed can’t get time on an NBA court. The NBA game is just about an entirely different sport.

Yup.

Check out some of the rosters some time. A huge percentage are guys that even fairly serious college BB fans have never heard of.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2022, 08:47:00 AM
You could find the 5 players that are the combination of smallest and least skilled NBA players and they still run through the NCAA Tournament.
Would the following beat Gonzaga, AZ, or Kansas? or Kentucky St Peter's
Jose Alvarado
Anthony Gill
Kiefer Sykes
Jordan McLaughlin
CJ Elleby
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2022, 08:57:37 AM
Would the following beat Gonzaga, AZ, or Kansas? or Kentucky St Peter's
Jose Alvarado
Anthony Gill
Kiefer Sykes
Jordan McLaughlin
CJ Elleby

Perfect examples.  Of that kind of funny list of NBA end of the bench guys you have….

ACC DPOY/Second Team All ACC
Second Team All-ACC x2 and HM AA
2 time Horizon POY and HM AA x2
1st team All PAC 12
1st team All PAC 12

And that’s all not including their multiple years of playing basketball solely as a job against higher level competition.  They’d easily handle a college team by double digits
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 18, 2022, 09:12:36 AM
Perfect examples.  Of that kind of funny list of NBA end of the bench guys you have….

ACC DPOY/Second Team All ACC
Second Team All-ACC x2 and HM AA
2 time Horizon POY and HM AA x2
1st team All PAC 12
1st team All PAC 12

And that’s all not including their multiple years of playing basketball solely as a job against higher level competition.  They’d easily handle a college team by double digits
I would agree with you. Their names might not be household names, but anyone who gets PT in the NBA (I picked guys who have played in most of their teams games) would easily beat a college team who might be lucky to have 2 guys stick the NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 23, 2022, 06:16:22 AM
I hope the Bucks call Alex Caruso and apologize for last night’s beat down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 23, 2022, 07:27:52 AM
Giannis with a near triple double with points, boards and turnovers. Still plus 28 in his minutes
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 23, 2022, 10:20:23 AM
I hope the Bucks call Alex Caruso and apologize for last night’s beat down.

I'm just happy he has a seemingly normal quality of life.  I was under the impression he would never walk or talk again after the heinous attempt on his life.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 23, 2022, 10:59:51 AM
Going to be interesting to see which East contender gets stuck playing the Nets in the first round
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 23, 2022, 11:13:34 AM
I love what Tristan Thompson's career has become.  Talk a big game, get yammed on, start shoving people while you're getting blown out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 23, 2022, 01:05:45 PM
I love what Tristan Thompson's career has become.  Talk a big game, get yammed on, start shoving people while you're getting blown out.

We were moments away from Giannis calling him a f'ing baby.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 23, 2022, 06:40:09 PM
Going to be interesting to see which East contender gets stuck playing the Nets in the first round

Going to be more interesting if they track down the 6 spot now and avoid that play in all together.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 23, 2022, 07:36:37 PM
I find it amusing, and the classic non-parallel of college game to pro game, that John Konchar had a very good college career but was never Summit POY cause Mike Daum won every year he was there.  Now Konchar plays legit minutes for a top 3 seed NBA playoff team and Daum is in Europe, and not even on a Euroleague/EuroCup level team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 06:16:26 AM
At least Jimmy Butler’s picking fights with males in the pros.

Then again, he only picks fights in the pros when he knows there’s 10+ massive dudes between him and the guy he’s tough-guying.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2022, 06:41:45 AM
At least Jimmy Butler’s picking fights with males in the pros.

Then again, he only picks fights in the pros when he knows there’s 10+ massive dudes between him and the guy he’s tough-guying.

Implying he isn't tough is ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 24, 2022, 07:25:37 AM
Yeah he may go overboard but JFB is most certainly tough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 08:12:21 AM
He's "tough" when he knows he has giants who won't let him actually get to the people he's being "tough" to.

The guy is a front runner.  When things are going well, he's the funny, cute guy selling the coffee he hoarded for more than anyone will pay, haha what a funny guy.  He's singing Party in the USA on the team bus, haha what a funny guy.  But once things start to go south he's yelling at the GM, asking for trades, and trying to "fight" his coach and one of the most beloved players in franchise history.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2022, 08:16:24 AM
He's "tough" when he knows he has giants who won't let him actually get to the people he's being "tough" to.

The guy is a front runner.  When things are going well, he's the funny, cute guy selling the coffee he hoarded for more than anyone will pay, haha what a funny guy.  He's singing Party in the USA on the team bus, haha what a funny guy.  But once things start to go south he's yelling at the GM, asking for trades, and trying to "fight" his coach and one of the most beloved players in franchise history.

Hes team is leading the East right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 08:31:22 AM
Hes team is leading the East right now.

And are 3-4 in their last 7 while 3 teams have now closed to within 1.5 games of them.  Their 3 wins are against the Cavs, Thunder, and Pistons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 24, 2022, 08:40:52 AM
Lol. Yeah Butler is fake tough and a front runner.

So stupid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 09:06:44 AM
Lol. Yeah Butler is fake tough and a front runner.

So stupid.

It is what it is.  How many tough guy yelling matches have you seen him get into over the last half decade?  Have you ever seen him even shove someone, let alone actually throw hands?  He doesn't want any of the smoke, but he wants people to think he's about that life.

The only people he will beat are those he knows cannot fairly defend themselves.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 24, 2022, 09:21:54 AM
It is what it is.  How many tough guy yelling matches have you seen him get into over the last half decade?  Have you ever seen him even shove someone, let alone actually throw hands?  He doesn't want any of the smoke, but he wants people to think he's about that life.

The only people he will beat are those he knows cannot fairly defend themselves.

What an absurd argument.  How many people are actively throwing hands in the NBA?  This isn't MMA.  Elite athletes in a highly competitive cutthroat league certainly get heated and physical but nobody is throwing punches to end theirs, or others, livelihoods.  If he actually threw a punch, you'd call him a headcase, or a thug, or something similar, cause you can't stand him.

This board glorifies AL McGuire punching one of his own players, but a star heated and yelling at his coaches and teammates during a tight game against another top team is a fake tough guy.  Got it.

Jimmy was 1000% right about the Timberwolves, and people talking about KAT thriving now ignore the fact that its a completely different coach, front office, and roster than when he called everyone out. 

He signed with a Heat team that was under .500 the year before and put them on his back.  Lowry and others coming to Miami is because of Butler, its not like he joined a super team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 09:30:52 AM
What an absurd argument.  How many people are actively throwing hands in the NBA?  This isn't MMA.  Elite athletes in a highly competitive cutthroat league certainly get heated and physical but nobody is throwing punches to end theirs, or others, livelihoods.  If he actually threw a punch, you'd call him a headcase, or a thug, or something similar, cause you can't stand him.

This board glorifies AL McGuire punching one of his own players, but a star heated and yelling at his coaches and teammates during a tight game against another top team is a fake tough guy.  Got it.

Jimmy was 1000% right about the Timberwolves, and people talking about KAT thriving now ignore the fact that its a completely different coach, front office, and roster than when he called everyone out. 

He signed with a Heat team that was under .500 the year before and put them on his back.  Lowry and others coming to Miami is because of Butler, its not like he joined a super team.

I don't know how you could argue he isn't a headcase.

KAT was never lazy.  Just because Jimmy does things his way doesn't mean other people are wrong for not doing things his way.

And LOL at the idea that players come to the Heat because of Jimmy Butler.  Players come to the Heat because of the city of Miami first and foremost and because of Pat Riley.  Kyle Lowry was buddies with Jimmy so I'm sure he did play a part in that one transaction, but Kyle Lowry isn't some massive pull.  Maybe half a decade ago he would've been.  But he's like the 4th or 5th best player at this point.

Maybe Jimmy can lead his team to the opponent's locker room only to be stopped by another 80 year old arena security guy again.  Lol.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 24, 2022, 09:30:57 AM
What an absurd argument.  How many people are actively throwing hands in the NBA?  This isn't MMA.  Elite athletes in a highly competitive cutthroat league certainly get heated and physical but nobody is throwing punches to end theirs, or others, livelihoods.  If he actually threw a punch, you'd call him a headcase, or a thug, or something similar, cause you can't stand him.

This board glorifies AL McGuire punching one of his own players, but a star heated and yelling at his coaches and teammates during a tight game against another top team is a fake tough guy.  Got it.

Jimmy was 1000% right about the Timberwolves, and people talking about KAT thriving now ignore the fact that its a completely different coach, front office, and roster than when he called everyone out. 

He signed with a Heat team that was under .500 the year before and put them on his back.  Lowry and others coming to Miami is because of Butler, its not like he joined a super team.
Agree 100%, and he is a star who doesn't need to take 20+ shots a game to win games for a team (I think he has had 7 games all year over 20 shot attempts). Not too many superstars like that out there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2022, 09:48:33 AM
It is what it is.  How many tough guy yelling matches have you seen him get into over the last half decade?  Have you ever seen him even shove someone, let alone actually throw hands?  He doesn't want any of the smoke, but he wants people to think he's about that life.

The only people he will beat are those he knows cannot fairly defend themselves.

You're being ridiculous.  Do you expect Jimmy to have to fight someone to prove he isn't some sort of pretend tough guy?  Absurd.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on March 24, 2022, 09:49:34 AM
I would take Jimmy Butler on my team 100% of the time. A winner, a max-effort guy and a gamer. I wish Marquette had 5 guys with Jimmy's attitude. Hell, I wish we had a couple.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 10:21:22 AM
You're being ridiculous.  Do you expect Jimmy to have to fight someone to prove he isn't some sort of pretend tough guy?  Absurd.

He certainly wants you to believe he's a tough guy.  He'll go to the media and talk about wanting fights.  But then when his teammate gets whiplash so bad he is out for half the season while he's a couple feet away from it happening, he'll cower back to his team's bench until Jokic is ejected, and then he'll start yelling from 90 feet away with 100 or so people between them.  What a toughy!  Definitely wishes those brawls would be happening in the NBA!

https://heatnation.com/media/jimmy-butler-says-he-wants-to-see-more-brawls-in-todays-nba/#:~:text=Miami%20Heat%20veteran%20Jimmy%20Butler%20offered%20a%20unique,letting%20you%20get%20into%20no%20brawls%20no%20more.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 24, 2022, 10:25:12 AM
I don't know how you could argue he isn't a headcase.

I don't really know the guy at all so I have no idea if he is a headcase.  He's a helluva basketball player though.  It seems to me that you are actually WithBias in this case.


KAT was never lazy.  Just because Jimmy does things his way doesn't mean other people are wrong for not doing things his way.

He wasn't lazy.  He was soft.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2022, 10:30:19 AM
He certainly wants you to believe he's a tough guy.  He'll go to the media and talk about wanting fights.  But then when his teammate gets whiplash so bad he is out for half the season while he's a couple feet away from it happening, he'll cower back to his team's bench until Jokic is ejected, and then he'll start yelling from 90 feet away with 100 or so people between them.  What a toughy!  Definitely wishes those brawls would be happening in the NBA!

https://heatnation.com/media/jimmy-butler-says-he-wants-to-see-more-brawls-in-todays-nba/#:~:text=Miami%20Heat%20veteran%20Jimmy%20Butler%20offered%20a%20unique,letting%20you%20get%20into%20no%20brawls%20no%20more.

The picture from your article:

(https://heatnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/USATSI_13886749-e1597767943617.jpg)

You're right.  Certainly looks like he runs from confrontation!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 10:43:20 AM
The picture from your article:

(https://heatnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/USATSI_13886749-e1597767943617.jpg)

You're right.  Certainly looks like he runs from confrontation!

Yup lol.  Watch the video of it.  Some ref about 40 years older than him and 8 inches shorter than him shoves Jimmy back across the whole court, when Jimmy then starts pointing at his chest and then at Warren and blowing Warren kisses lol.  Once again, if he wanted to go at it like he talks like he does, is that ref really going to prevent him from that?  HELL no.  He's literally yelling at Warren from the other end of the court "I'M TOUGH!"  Haha.

The Jokic video is even better.  He's like 15 feet from Jokic when he decks Morris.  Then he starts to run over when it happens like he's going to do something, realizes he'd get smoked, basically comes to a walk, and gives the most half hearted "shove" I've ever seen in my life lol.  But then gets REALLY tough after Jokic is ejected and basically in the opposite side's tunnel.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 10:44:35 AM
I don't really know the guy at all so I have no idea if he is a headcase.  He's a helluva basketball player though.  It seems to me that you are actually WithBias in this case.


He wasn't lazy.  He was soft.

Butler is very good at basketball.  He's not the all time great like LBJ, Giannis, Steph are, and he's not MVP level like Jokic, Embiid, etc. are.  But he's a step below that.

Doesn't mean he's tough or always right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2022, 11:14:11 AM
Yup lol.  Watch the video of it.  Some ref about 40 years older than him and 8 inches shorter than him shoves Jimmy back across the whole court, when Jimmy then starts pointing at his chest and then at Warren and blowing Warren kisses lol.  Once again, if he wanted to go at it like he talks like he does, is that ref really going to prevent him from that?  HELL no.  He's literally yelling at Warren from the other end of the court "I'M TOUGH!"  Haha.

The Jokic video is even better.  He's like 15 feet from Jokic when he decks Morris.  Then he starts to run over when it happens like he's going to do something, realizes he'd get smoked, basically comes to a walk, and gives the most half hearted "shove" I've ever seen in my life lol.  But then gets REALLY tough after Jokic is ejected and basically in the opposite side's tunnel.

So you're suggesting that he push the ref out of the way and then clock someone.  Fine, ejection, suspension.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2022, 11:14:34 AM
And are 3-4 in their last 7 while 3 teams have now closed to within 1.5 games of them.  Their 3 wins are against the Cavs, Thunder, and Pistons.

So he starts fighting coaches after every 3-4 stretch in a 82 game season???

You got a weird obsession with hating the guy. Should probably talk to someone professionally.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 24, 2022, 11:17:23 AM
So he starts fighting coaches after every 3-4 stretch in a 82 game season???

You got a weird obsession with hating the guy. Should probably talk to someone professionally.

He should probably also change his name  ;D
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 24, 2022, 12:49:48 PM
He should probably also change his name  ;D
to Jimmystolemygirlfriend
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 24, 2022, 01:48:56 PM
to Jimmybeatmygirlfriend

FIFY, though not mine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 25, 2022, 12:58:04 PM
We don't have to talk about Demar as an MVP candidate anymore do we?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 27, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
Jimmy’s fake tough guy act really paid off for the Heat. Went from a 4 game lead to possibly falling to the 4 seed. Lost the 4th 38-15 to lose to the Knicks and then lost by about 40 to the Nets. Only a matter of time until Jimmy goes to Rachel Nichols to tell her how the guys he’s around don’t know how to win and don’t do it the right way or play hard enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 27, 2022, 06:49:11 PM
Jimmy’s fake tough guy act really paid off for the Heat. Went from a 4 game lead to possibly falling to the 4 seed. Lost the 4th 38-15 to lose to the Knicks and then lost by about 40 to the Nets. Only a matter of time until Jimmy goes to Rachel Nichols to tell her how the guys he’s around don’t know how to win and don’t do it the right way or play hard enough.

In his last 5 games that he wasn’t limited by injury (Nets and Pistons), he’s averaging 25/6/5 but go off.  He’s definitely the problem here.  Keep living up to the exact opposite of your username.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 27, 2022, 09:08:03 PM
Jimmy’s fake tough guy act really paid off for the Heat. Went from a 4 game lead to possibly falling to the 4 seed. Lost the 4th 38-15 to lose to the Knicks and then lost by about 40 to the Nets. Only a matter of time until Jimmy goes to Rachel Nichols to tell her how the guys he’s around don’t know how to win and don’t do it the right way or play hard enough.

Gotta say, its somewhat impressive how dumb you make yourself look routinely. Its something to hang your hat on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 29, 2022, 03:10:04 PM
Lol apparently Jimmy told Udonis Haslem he's just a cheerleader.  I hope UD walks around with his 3 championship rings on until Jimmy is off the team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 29, 2022, 03:32:20 PM
First, these were all words said in the Heat of battle.  So don't read too much into them, and my guess is that they have already talked it out or forgotten about it.

Second, Butler's not wrong.  Haslem has played in 11 games this year, pretty much all in mop-up time.

Third, Butler's career VORP=38.2  Haslem's=0.2  Everyone knows who the better player is / has been.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on March 29, 2022, 03:47:26 PM
First, these were all words said in the Heat of battle.  So don't read too much into them, and my guess is that they have already talked it out or forgotten about it.

Second, Butler's not wrong.  Haslem has played in 11 games this year, pretty much all in mop-up time.

Third, Butler's career VORP=38.2  Haslem's=0.2  Everyone knows who the better player is / has been.

David Thorpe was on a podcast last week and it doesn't seem like he thinks this is something that is just going away.  He's seen way more than the average person has, and he was saying it was about as weird of a situation as you will ever see.  You don't see that happening in the middle of a game, in public, and that it's very weird that a coach had to basically tell a player off saying, "You really think I'm going to just fight you in a huddle during a game?"  Thorpe said everywhere Butler goes he wears people out.

Also, of course Jimmy is a better player.  But UD was a very important player for 3 championship teams and is as "Heat culture" as it gets.  He's been basically universally loved by fans and teammates alike, he's known to be a consummate team player, and a pro's pro.  Some players have more value than what they produce on the court, but that doesn't make them a "cheerleader."  I'm guessing the Heat have been asking UD to come back as a player year after year or UD wouldn't be playing anymore.  Jimmy thinks everyone has to do it his way and be maniacal or else that player is lazy and doesn't care about winning, when the reality is the one run he's made was a Micky Mouse tournament.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on March 29, 2022, 03:50:53 PM
First, these were all words said in the Heat of battle.  So don't read too much into them, and my guess is that they have already talked it out or forgotten about it.

Second, Butler's not wrong.  Haslem has played in 11 games this year, pretty much all in mop-up time.

Third, Butler's career VORP=38.2  Haslem's=0.2  Everyone knows who the better player is / has been.

Jimmy doesn't win important games though, Haslem has.

Checkmark: Udonis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on March 29, 2022, 03:59:37 PM
Jimmy doesn't win important games though, Haslem has.

Checkmark: Udonis.

In fact, I’d have Haslem on MU’s Mount Rushmore.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2022, 04:50:26 PM
So I don’t think it’s ever been explicitly said by anyone but we all know why Al Horford and Jaylen Brown didn’t play in Toronto right?

If that’s the 3-6 matchup, wouldn’t hate putting some money on the Raptors since two starters won’t be available for half that series
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 29, 2022, 05:44:18 PM
So I don’t think it’s ever been explicitly said by anyone but we all know why Al Horford and Jaylen Brown didn’t play in Toronto right?

If that’s the 3-6 matchup, wouldn’t hate putting some money on the Raptors since two starters won’t be available for half that series

Are you implying they aren't vaccinated and thus can't get into Canada?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 29, 2022, 06:59:51 PM
The difference in how Embiid and Giannis are reffed is absolutely absurd. I’d be embarrassed to flop around like Embiid and Harden do. But they get rewarded for it. Such garbage basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 29, 2022, 08:30:16 PM
Giannis the real MVP
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 29, 2022, 08:31:18 PM
I see that Giannis dropped 40, 14, 6, and 3 in Philly?  Perhaps the MVP discussion should begin and end with him?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 29, 2022, 09:04:10 PM
I see that Giannis dropped 40, 14, 6, and 3 in Philly?  Perhaps the MVP discussion should begin and end with him?

Him and Jokic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 29, 2022, 09:22:38 PM
Him and Jokic.

I just saw the block.  Please give the young man his 3rd MVP.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 29, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
My MVP rankings:

1. Jokic
First in Win Shares, WS/48, Box plus/minus, PER, and VORP

2. Giannis
Second in all of those categories

3. Embiid
5th in WS/48, 3rd in the rest of those categories
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 29, 2022, 09:57:26 PM
My MVP rankings:

1. Jokic
First in Win Shares, WS/48, Box plus/minus, PER, and VORP

2. Giannis
Second in all of those categories

3. Embiid
5th in WS/48, 3rd in the rest of those categories

Nope

Yes

Nope

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 29, 2022, 11:08:28 PM
I see that Giannis dropped 40, 14, 6, and 3 in Philly?  Perhaps the MVP discussion should begin and end with him?

Embiid will be the MVP, Book it.

Giannis will not get it for the same reason that Jordan didn't it more often.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on March 30, 2022, 12:54:45 PM
Embiid will be the MVP, Book it.

Giannis will not get it for the same reason that Jordan didn't it more often.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33617040/nba-mvp-straw-poll-nikola-jokic-joel-embiid-where-race-stands-two-weeks-left-season

Yesterday's straw poll had Jokic well ahead of Embiid and Giannis with 62/100 first place votes. It seems like it's Jokic's to lose at this point, but if Denver falls to a play-in spot and the Bucks secure the first seed, who knows what will happen.

Agree that voter fatigue is the biggest factor holding Giannis back. It's ridiculous to me that someone who has a very real possibility of winning the scoring title and DPOY in the same year is not the favorite for MVP.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 30, 2022, 01:13:06 PM
Was that block by Giannis better the one on Ayton last year?  I get that Jokic has little help around him but no GM or coach would take him ahead of Giannis.  The same is true of Embiid.  Do the voters realize Giannis can guard 5 positions?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 30, 2022, 01:13:49 PM
Embiid will be the MVP, Book it.

Giannis will not get it for the same reason that Jordan didn't it more often.

If Embiid gets it, would be quite the travesty over the other two.

Not quite on the level of Colon getting Cy Young over Santana years back. But still really bad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 30, 2022, 01:17:29 PM
If Embiid gets it, would be quite the travesty over the other two.

Not quite on the level of Colon getting Cy Young over Santana years back. But still really bad.

But the great James Harden said Embiid is the MVP!  Of course this is also the same guy who stated "All Giannis can do is dunk".  That might be the dumbest sentence on record in human history?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 30, 2022, 01:29:49 PM
Was that block by Giannis better the one on Ayton last year?  I get that Jokic has little help around him but no GM or coach would take him ahead of Giannis.  The same is true of Embiid.  Do the voters realize Giannis can guard 5 positions?

The block on Ayton was way better, even if you take the context of the game/situation out of it. The Ayton block he guarded the ball handler at the free throw line and recovered to block the dunk at the rim, with Ayton going full speed for the dunk. That was absolutely absurd. Last night’s block was nice in a big win, but Embiid he to rush a shot up with the clock running down and Giannis could sell out for the block knowing that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 01:31:01 PM
Was that block by Giannis better the one on Ayton last year?  I get that Jokic has little help around him but no GM or coach would take him ahead of Giannis.  The same is true of Embiid.  Do the voters realize Giannis can guard 5 positions?

Last night was huge, but the Ayton one was otherworldly.  He was looking at the ball as it was released.  He turned, found it in the air, jumped and somehow high pointed it without making contact with Ayton.  Last night was an incredible defensive play but fairly straight forward otherwise (which is hilarious cause 90% of players in the league can't make that play).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 30, 2022, 01:53:13 PM
Last night was huge, but the Ayton one was otherworldly.  He was looking at the ball as it was released.  He turned, found it in the air, jumped and somehow high pointed it without making contact with Ayton.  Last night was an incredible defensive play but fairly straight forward otherwise (which is hilarious cause 90% of players in the league can't make that play).

I just rewatched the Ayton block.  You're correct.  The fact is no one else could have made that play and very few people could have made that swat on Embiid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2022, 02:08:11 PM
That Ayton block was so ridiculous that I don't think ESPN realized how ridiculous it was.  They didn't show a replay until the game was over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 30, 2022, 02:15:54 PM
If Embiid gets it, would be quite the travesty over the other two.

Not quite on the level of Colon getting Cy Young over Santana years back. But still really bad.

No. A good case can be made for any of the 3 guys.

They are all so good that no one talks about Booker, Curry, or LeBron - who is having a career year at 37 years old. I think the last time MJ averaged 30 pts. was when he was 32.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 02:26:45 PM
They are all so good that no one talks about Booker, Curry, or LeBron - who is having a career year at 37 years old. I think the last time MJ averaged 30 pts. was when he was 32.

He's shooting a lot more.  He's average his most attempts a game since he was 21, including like 25% more 3P attempts compared to any year prior, and not at any improved percentage.  He's on a bad team and putting up big scoring numbers in losses to mediocre like the Pelicans and the Wizards.

Its not meant to be hating, but I don't think its anywhere near as impressive as what other guys are doing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2022, 02:46:09 PM
LBJ is 5th in VORP, which for a 37 year old is pretty darn amazing.  But he's not MVP.  Jokic followed by Giannis and Embid are the leaders there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 30, 2022, 03:03:44 PM
No. A good case can be made for any of the 3 guys.

They are all so good that no one talks about Booker, Curry, or LeBron - who is having a career year at 37 years old. I think the last time MJ averaged 30 pts. was when he was 32.

Embiid has a case against everyone outside of the top 2. Really his only statistical case over Joker is team performance.

Booker is definitely one who is finally getting more convo and should be getting it. Hell of a year for clearly the best team. That didnt miss a beat without CP3.

Lebron? His team sucks no chance he should or would be in convo.

Curry? Hes now hurt and his season while still really good is nowhere near the others, his team is nowhere near the others and its a season that isnt even top of the line for Curry himself.

The convo should really be between GIannis and Joker with Booker and Embiid getting some love as the next two.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 03:25:38 PM
Curry? Hes now hurt and his season while still really good is nowhere near the others, his team is nowhere near the others and its a season that isnt even top of the line for Curry himself.

I know MVP has turned into "best player on one of the top teams" but in terms of value, Curry's impact is kind of amazing.  They were 47-22, tied with Memphis for 2nd in the West.  Curry gets hurt, they lose 6 of 7, and to some bad teams.  Meanwhile, the Grizz lose Morant for awhile and win 5 straight including over the Bucks and Nets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on March 30, 2022, 03:28:15 PM
I think it should be Jokic, but Giannis should be 2nd and ahead of Embiid. Embiid has been phenomenal but I don't think he's quite at the level of the other two.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 30, 2022, 04:13:13 PM
I know MVP has turned into "best player on one of the top teams" but in terms of value, Curry's impact is kind of amazing.  They were 47-22, tied with Memphis for 2nd in the West.  Curry gets hurt, they lose 6 of 7, and to some bad teams.  Meanwhile, the Grizz lose Morant for awhile and win 5 straight including over the Bucks and Nets.

Oh 100% hes definitely still got crazy value. Though an argument to that is its still not just him. They struggled without Draymond as well.

But you are definitely right, Curry means a heck of a lot more to the Warriors than most stars to their teams. Morant being a great example even if its probably a bit flukish.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 30, 2022, 05:37:52 PM
I know MVP has turned into "best player on one of the top teams" but in terms of value, Curry's impact is kind of amazing.  They were 47-22, tied with Memphis for 2nd in the West.  Curry gets hurt, they lose 6 of 7, and to some bad teams.  Meanwhile, the Grizz lose Morant for awhile and win 5 straight including over the Bucks and Nets.

I see the 'V' and think that is what it is all about. We saw what happened to the Nets w/out Durant. Same would happen to Philly, Boston, Milwaukee, Denver if they lost their star. Denver & Boston would be affected the worst, I think.

But the NBA takes turns with the MVP. It's Embiid's turn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 30, 2022, 06:36:51 PM
I don't think I could make that block Giannis had on Embiid on an 8 foot rim.  I know I couldn't replicate the Ayton block on any rim height.  I still don't think Giannis has reached his ceiling/peak level.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 30, 2022, 06:54:08 PM
The absolute only argument Embiid has for MVP over either Giannis or Jokic is “He hasn’t won one yet.” It should be a two horse race, and in my opinion Jokic should win it if he can keep the Nuggets from the play in game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 30, 2022, 07:27:34 PM
Are you implying they aren't vaccinated and thus can't get into Canada?

I like my source
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 08:50:35 PM
I like my source

I’m not doubting in any way.  Was just curious for clarification
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on March 30, 2022, 11:19:07 PM
The absolute only argument Embiid has for MVP over either Giannis or Jokic is “He hasn’t won one yet.” It should be a two horse race, and in my opinion Jokic should win it if he can keep the Nuggets from the play in game.

Agree with you, wades. Should be a 2-horse race, but I still have a feeling Horse 3 is gonna win it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 10:45:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-aPCp9me8&t=39s

Dear God talk about a guy with a lack of self awareness.  Embiid telling KD (or anyone, for that matter) not to flop and to stay up if he draws contact is absolutely absurd.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 31, 2022, 12:18:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-aPCp9me8&t=39s

Dear God talk about a guy with a lack of self awareness.  Embiid telling KD (or anyone, for that matter) not to flop and to stay up if he draws contact is absolutely absurd.

Give him credit for quickly calling out JJ not having Giannis top 3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 31, 2022, 12:25:11 PM
Give him credit for quickly calling out JJ not having Giannis top 3.

Yea.  That was absurd.  I usually really like JJ and think he's become a good insider voice in the league.  But thats just silly.

I can't tell if its a ploy to get social media buzz or if he's just capping for a former teammate, but saying Giannis is not top 3 is preposterous.  Especially since he routinely destroys Embiid
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 12:46:26 PM
"He's in the next group"?   Ridiculous comment from J.J. Reddick.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 31, 2022, 01:44:37 PM
If JJ had a teammate as good as Giannis, he could have ridden his coattails to actually win something
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 31, 2022, 02:15:18 PM
If JJ had a teammate as good as Giannis, he could have ridden his coattails to actually win something

Come on now.  We can mock a bad take, but no need to disparage a really good career.  He's top 15 all time in 3P makes.  A career 41.5% shooter from deep, if you take out the weird years in Orlando where he wasn't really 3P shooter (less than 3 attempts per game), it bumps up to 43% and he's top 10 all time.  Thats on nearly 5000 atttempts. 

The only other player to shoot 4000+ 3s and shoot a higher percentage is Steph.  The only one with 3500+ to best him is Nash. 

Dude is an all time shooting great.  He didn't need to ride coattails.  He just got unlucky with those Clippers teams that Blake and CP3 couldn't get over the hump and then Brett Brown not getting it done in Philly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on March 31, 2022, 02:47:05 PM
Come on now.  We can mock a bad take, but no need to disparage a really good career.  He's top 15 all time in 3P makes.  A career 41.5% shooter from deep, if you take out the weird years in Orlando where he wasn't really 3P shooter (less than 3 attempts per game), it bumps up to 43% and he's top 10 all time.  Thats on nearly 5000 atttempts. 

The only other player to shoot 4000+ 3s and shoot a higher percentage is Steph.  The only one with 3500+ to best him is Nash. 

Dude is an all time shooting great.  He didn't need to ride coattails.  He just got unlucky with those Clippers teams that Blake and CP3 couldn't get over the hump and then Brett Brown not getting it done in Philly.
100%. A lot of people like to hate on JJ, mainly because of his Duke ties. He really was an elite shooter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on March 31, 2022, 03:02:47 PM
100%. A lot of people like to hate on JJ, mainly because of his Duke ties. He really was an elite shooter.

He had 2 elite skills - shooting and intensity. He was nowhere near good enough to help a team win a title if he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 03:57:03 PM
He had 2 elite skills - shooting and intensity. He was nowhere near good enough to help a team win a title if he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team, though.

Nope.  Good point Jockey.  Primarily a reallt good spot shooter.  Regardless his comment on Giannis was utterly ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on March 31, 2022, 06:41:10 PM
He had 2 elite skills - shooting and intensity. He was nowhere near good enough to help a team win a title if he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team, though.

Don’t disagree.  But he was never expected or put in the position to be. Whether in LA or Philly.  He did his role extremely well and would have been incredibly valuable if the stats on his teams did theirs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 07:11:23 PM
It appears Giannis is getting zero help tonight in Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 07:31:27 PM
Newsflash:

If you really think "Giannis is in the next tier" behind Embiid, Durant, and Jokic you lack basic observational skills and are a total clown.   I would say that's beyond a bad take by J.J. Reddick.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2022, 07:32:09 PM
I don't know who this Giannis kid is, but I hear he's got some potential.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on March 31, 2022, 07:38:17 PM
I think some of the Redick dislike around these parts also stems from a guy who we traded Tobias Harris for that kind of mailed it in. I had always heard he was not happy to be in Milwaukee and was on the first thing smoking out of here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 07:59:23 PM
There is no player you can compare Giannis to historically.  He's sort of a smaller Shaq but with guard blow by quickness and coast to coast speed.  He's as good of an overall athlete that I have seen play the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 08:13:39 PM
It’s absolutely incredible that every rotational player outside of Pat and Giannis have been pretty terrible and they still lead going into the 4th at Brooklyn.

Hopefully Jrue finds that Fourth Quarter Jrue magic here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 08:24:41 PM
It’s absolutely incredible that every rotational player outside of Pat and Giannis have been pretty terrible and they still lead going into the 4th at Brooklyn.

Hopefully Jrue finds that Fourth Quarter Jrue magic here.

They've been awful since I've watched midway through the 2nd.  But the Nets are like 15-27 from distance.  I thought that traveling call on Giannis was garbage.  5pt swing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 08:29:17 PM
They've been awful since I've watched midway through the 2nd.  But the Nets are like 15-27 from distance.  I thought that traveling call on Giannis was garbage.  5pt swing.

Yeah I didn’t understand the call at all. It got blocked.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 08:35:21 PM
They kicked Middleton out?  Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Ardmore Mug on March 31, 2022, 08:38:34 PM
Flagrant 2 on that is ridiculous! ! !  8-)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 31, 2022, 08:43:22 PM
Flagrant 2 on that is ridiculous! ! !  8-)

Brown took the most unorthodox path/pace to a layup that made the contact look worse than it was. That's a common foul where Khris clearly just missed the ball on the swipe.

But gotta make the Nets seeding a bit safer, eh
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 08:44:41 PM
That was very much a flagrant 2. Guy is in the air, Middleton is behind him, there’s no need to make that foul. Give up the dunk, you’re down 5 with 5 minutes to play. Instead you give up a 4 point possession and you’re gone.

Middleton was horrendous tonight and hasn’t been nearly as good this year as he has to be to repeat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 08:45:48 PM
That was very much a flagrant 2. Guy is in the air, Middleton is behind him, there’s no need to make that foul. Give up the dunk, you’re down 5 with 5 minutes to play. Instead you give up a 4 point possession and you’re gone.

Middleton was horrendous tonight and hasn’t been nearly as good this year as he has to be to repeat.

I agree he was terrible this evening but disagree that was a F2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 31, 2022, 08:56:37 PM
Giannis isn't your MVP  ::)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 08:59:03 PM
Giannis isn't your MVP  ::)

LOL.

I've watched since the mid-2nd.  No one has really helped him tonight.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 31, 2022, 08:59:34 PM
Gianni3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 09:18:12 PM
Wesley played the last 10 mins. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 09:24:39 PM
Hell of a comeback. Middleton went from costing the Bucks the game to winning the Bucks the game by being ejected. He was brutal tonight. Jrue was bad until the 4th. Same with Bobby.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 31, 2022, 09:33:48 PM
giannis passed kareem for milwaukee scoring of 14,211
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on March 31, 2022, 09:35:24 PM
LOL.

I've watched since the mid-2nd.  No one has really helped him tonight.

This was sarcasm. He is the MVP and he's proven it in back to back games. A step-back 3 to tie and beat Kareem's franchise record. But imagine if Giannis had a bag.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on March 31, 2022, 09:42:55 PM
Heading into the 6ers game Giannis needed 80 points for the franchise record. 2 games later he has the record.

LBJ is averaging 30.13 ppg. Giannis is averaging 30.12. Giannis is doing that in 32 mpg while LBJ is doing it in 37.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on March 31, 2022, 10:38:47 PM
I tuned in right at the start of the 4th quarter. Very enjoyable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on March 31, 2022, 10:54:14 PM
The Bucks/Suns rematch would be fun.  I would think the last two performances by Giannis opened some eyes.  Look out if the young man gets some help in the playoffs.  You're always in prime position to win when you have the best player on the floor. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 31, 2022, 11:40:40 PM
I'm going to be so pissed when the Bucks get the Nets in the first round of the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 01, 2022, 12:23:42 AM
I'm going to be so pissed when the Bucks get the Nets in the first round of the playoffs.

I'm not. It'll be 6 really entertaining games and the Bucks will move on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 01, 2022, 10:41:46 PM
I can’t wait until the playoffs just so I can stop hearing about the Lakers.

Has a team this bad ever gotten this much coverage? They’re 14 games under .500 with 6 games to go.

Without the stupid play-in tournament they would already be eliminated from contention.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 01, 2022, 11:46:19 PM
I can’t wait until the playoffs just so I can stop hearing about the Lakers.

Has a team this bad ever gotten this much coverage? They’re 14 games under .500 with 6 games to go.

Without the stupid play-in tournament they would already be eliminated from contention.

I completely agree.  The "play-in tournament" is beyond ridiculous.  Why should teams 13 games under .500 be given an opportunity to make the playoffs?  It's seriously stupid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2022, 07:26:48 AM
I completely agree.  The "play-in tournament" is beyond ridiculous.  Why should teams 13 games under .500 be given an opportunity to make the playoffs?  It's seriously stupid.

I don't like it either,  but I do appreciate that fewer teams tank as a result
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 02, 2022, 08:01:28 AM
Who, here, dropped a C note or more to attend last night's Bucks vs Clippers game foolishly thinkin' they were going to see a real NBA game with superstars, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 02, 2022, 08:55:17 AM
Well blame the NBA for scheduling back to backs with travel in between as part as part of a stretch where they play 4 games in 6 days. The goal of every NBA team is to make sure they are healthy for the playoffs at this point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 02, 2022, 10:29:06 AM
Getting ready to pelt me with bullets...


But I am going on record and flat out guaranteeing


If the Wolves(requires beating clips in first play In and not somehow jumping nuggs for 6 seed) play Memphis first round. They win that series.

This isnt a "it might happen" or "could happen". Wolves will be in the second round.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 02, 2022, 11:09:12 AM
Getting ready to pelt me with bullets...


But I am going on record and flat out guaranteeing


If the Wolves(requires beating clips in first play In and not somehow jumping nuggs for 6 seed) play Memphis first round. They win that series.

This isnt a "it might happen" or "could happen". Wolves will be in the second round.

Disagreed. Wolves are good. Grizz are awesome.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 02, 2022, 11:41:16 AM
Giannis has not reached his ceiling imo.
 He can still improve his jump shot a lot, polish the turn around over both shoulders,  and make better decisions leading to fewer turns.  Keep in mind his stats are in 32 mins per game.  That step-back triple the other night must have terrified his future opponents.  Is it hyperbole that he has greater potential than Jordan or Lebron?  I'm starting to think the floodgates could really open the next few years for him.  Like maybe:  38 ppg, 15 rebs, 8 dimes on 59% shooting, 35% from distance, 75% FTP.  I think this is definitely doable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 02, 2022, 02:41:06 PM
Giannis has not reached his ceiling imo.
 He can still improve his jump shot a lot, polish the turn around over both shoulders,  and make better decisions leading to fewer turns.  Keep in mind his stats are in 32 mins per game.  That step-back triple the other night must have terrified his future opponents.  Is it hyperbole that he has greater potential than Jordan or Lebron?  I'm starting to think the floodgates could really open the next few years for him.  Like maybe:  38 ppg, 15 rebs, 8 dimes on 59% shooting, 35% from distance, 75% FTP.  I think this is definitely doable.

There is no way he averages those numbers or shoots that well from 3. His numbers will probably hover around what they are this year, but he’ll polish the jumper but go to the line less, turn the ball over less, etc.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 02, 2022, 04:41:16 PM
There is no way he averages those numbers or shoots that well from 3. His numbers will probably hover around what they are this year, but he’ll polish the jumper but go to the line less, turn the ball over less, etc.

He should probably average a few more dimes.  I know my numbers sound gaudy but I honestly think it's doable.  Think about how dominant you have to be to average 30 with a pretty inconsistent J?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 02, 2022, 06:02:38 PM
Giannis has not reached his ceiling imo.
 He can still improve his jump shot a lot, polish the turn around over both shoulders,  and make better decisions leading to fewer turns.  Keep in mind his stats are in 32 mins per game.  That step-back triple the other night must have terrified his future opponents.  Is it hyperbole that he has greater potential than Jordan or Lebron?  I'm starting to think the floodgates could really open the next few years for him.  Like maybe:  38 ppg, 15 rebs, 8 dimes on 59% shooting, 35% from distance, 75% FTP.  I think this is definitely doable.

He will never lean into jumpers and 3s as a primary means of scoring. They are his least efficient shot and the key for him is that they are not liabilities to keep his drives inside unobstructed. Until his athleticism doesn't allow that, he's going to put his head down. His usage % also doesn't allow for many more assists. If you're looking for a place the assists can come from, it's cutting down on turnovers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Should Matthews play so many mins for the Bucks?  I'm surprised he gets 25 mins.  I thought Allen was a decent defender?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 02:04:00 PM
Middleton missing a crazy amount of wide open shots. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 02:10:19 PM
This Dallas team is dangerous.  I'm not so sure they can't give Phoenix some problems.  Tons of shooters around Doncic. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 03, 2022, 02:27:04 PM
Bucks with one of the worst 4th quarters I have seen from them in the last few years. Everyone looked hesitant.  Holiday played with no urgency and Middleton was terrible.  Oh well
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 03:48:31 PM
Bucks with one of the worst 4th quarters I have seen from them in the last few years. Everyone looked hesitant.  Holiday played with no urgency and Middleton was terrible.  Oh well

A few things I observed:

I love Matthews but he shouldn't start.  He's a defensive player for spot mins now.  They have Allen and Connaughton which should be enough at the 2G with Wes

I'm not sure Budenholzer has figured out how to use both Portis and Lopez but they can't play much together.

Middleton simply has to be a lot better for them to get the 2nd chip and on both ends of the floor. 

The Bucks are very sporadic and inconsistent defensively.  I'm not sure if this is a focus issue but they generally play in spurts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 03, 2022, 03:52:29 PM
Portis and Lopez played together all the time last year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 03:58:20 PM
Portis and Lopez played together all the time last year.

They struggle on switches vs perimeter players.

Dallas is really good but I thought they defended quite poorly today as a group.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 03, 2022, 03:58:54 PM
Portis and Lopez played together all the time last year.

They did but since Lopez returned, Portis hasn’t been very good
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 04:05:14 PM
Miami and Dallas are probably the two teams that the Bucks match up the worst against.  But Middleton can't allow a guy like Brunson to shut him down.  He has to have at least 6 inches on him.   As far as Dallas I think you have to try to limit the spot threes and make Doncic take more shots.  He's most dangerous when he can pick apart teams with his passing. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 03, 2022, 06:30:57 PM
While the Bucks were bad late today, I can’t remember seeing a “good” team more broken than the Jazz.  It’s breathtaking how badly they give up leads and in shocking fashion.  Not including a meaningless Gobert FT late, they scored 3 points in the final EIGHT minutes and blew a 16 point lead. It honestly almost looked like point shaving.

I don’t know what you do, cause Snyder is a good coach, but you kind of may have to blow it up
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 03, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
While the Bucks were bad late today, I can’t remember seeing a “good” team more broken than the Jazz.  It’s breathtaking how badly they give up leads and in shocking fashion.  Not including a meaningless Gobert FT late, they scored 3 points in the final EIGHT minutes and blew a 16 point lead. It honestly almost looked like point shaving.

I don’t know what you do, cause Snyder is a good coach, but you kind of may have to blow it up

Do you think Phoenix can be taken out in the West?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 04, 2022, 02:09:55 PM
Simmons and Rusillo are doing a "draft" on players they imagine will not be on their current teams next year.  They have Donovan Mitchell as 1, then Jimmy Butler as 2.  Others include Randal with the Knicks, Zion, and Ayton.

Don't see Zion happening.  I could see the others happening.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 04, 2022, 02:32:20 PM
Simmons and Rusillo are doing a "draft" on players they imagine will not be on their current teams next year.  They have Donovan Mitchell as 1, then Jimmy Butler as 2.  Others include Randal with the Knicks, Zion, and Ayton.

Don't see Zion happening.  I could see the others happening.

Simmons is a great basketball fan and has a great knowledge about the history of the game.  But when it comes to any "GM" type stuff, he's pretty clueless and just spouts ill-informed hot takes.

Of that list, Mitchell and Randall are stars on sh*t-show teams.  Zion has injury issues and is also on a bad team that may want value from him.  And Ayton is a FA.

They just threw Butler in there to be spicy cause of the Haslem dust up.  He's having an excellent season for the 1 seed in the East.  He's not going anywhere just cause you hate him and some loudmouth podcaster thinks he will.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 04, 2022, 04:31:56 PM
Simmons and Rusillo are doing a "draft" on players they imagine will not be on their current teams next year.  They have Donovan Mitchell as 1, then Jimmy Butler as 2.  Others include Randal with the Knicks, Zion, and Ayton.

Don't see Zion happening.  I could see the others happening.

That list should start with Gobert and it's not close. Donovan Mitchell refuses to pass to the guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 07:24:48 PM
I guess Embiid is going for the MVP.  29pts at the half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 05, 2022, 07:36:39 PM
I guess Embiid is going for the MVP. scoring title 29pts at the half.
FIFY
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 07:42:14 PM
FIFY

Fair point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2022, 09:03:34 PM
Thank God Grayson didn’t die right on the court. Lock Vuc up for life.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 05, 2022, 09:26:17 PM
Bulls really should’ve just added an athletic rim protector instead of Vuc. I know they didn’t know they’d have DeRozan, and Vuc helps open the court for the mid range, but they’d have something with some rim protection.

As it is I’d be looking to the future and building around Patrick Williams. He is good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 05, 2022, 10:12:36 PM
There goes that Vucevic! I have not seen a violent act like that in years!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 10:43:55 PM
The Lakers are 24 mins away from being eliminated from the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2022, 11:25:59 PM
The Lakers are 24 mins away from being eliminated from the playoffs.

And in crunch time with the season on the line Lebron is absent, because of a sore ankle.

The man built a crappy team, didn't adapt his game to the team he created, and when the season was on the line...sat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 05, 2022, 11:38:29 PM
Adios Lakers, enjoy the banana boat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 11:41:20 PM
And in crunch time with the season on the line Lebron is absent, because of a sore ankle.

The man built a crappy team, didn't adapt his game to the team he created, and when the season was on the line...sat.

Didn't he want Westbrook instead of DeRozan? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 05, 2022, 11:41:58 PM
Didn't he want Westbrook instead of DeRozan?

He did.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2022, 11:43:49 PM
I'm a LeBron fan ... but he really orchestrated a shyte-show here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 11:49:17 PM
I'm a LeBron fan ... but he really orchestrated a shyte-show here.

Not good if you don't make the "playoffs" with 10 teams per conference. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 05, 2022, 11:51:58 PM
And the Pelicans are gonna get their top-10 pick next year
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 05, 2022, 11:53:20 PM
I don't think the Lakers can really do much moving forward unless they trade Davis?  Could they cut Westbrook and get out of his contract?   He's clearly not tradeable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 06, 2022, 12:03:32 AM
I don't think the Lakers can really do much moving forward unless they trade Davis?  Could they cut Westbrook and get out of his contract?   He's clearly not tradeable.

They’ll hang onto it for one more season and hope to god AD stays healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 06, 2022, 03:37:28 AM
I'm a LeBron fan ... but he really orchestrated a shyte-show here.





Peddle hiz ass, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 06, 2022, 05:10:16 AM
I don't think the Lakers can really do much moving forward unless they trade Davis?  Could they cut Westbrook and get out of his contract?   He's clearly not tradeable.
Thought I heard Westbrook has a $47 million player option for next year. He ain't goin nowhere.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2022, 08:10:42 AM
Peddle hiz ass, aina?

Well done, Doc. This time you actually want to peddle the ass of a guy who's not quite what he was on a team going nowhere. That's a refreshing change from when you wanted to peddle the ass of an ascending superstar on a championship-caliber team, nu?

Oh, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if LeBron's playing elsewhere next season. Not sure whether that will be mainly his decision, the Lakers' decision, or both. Back to Cleveland, perhaps?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2022, 09:26:35 AM
They’ll hang onto it for one more season and hope to god AD stays healthy.

Wait till next year.  If AD or anyone isn't healthy, Lebron will manufacture ways to play only 30-40 games and save himself for 2023-2024 playing in Cleveland or NYC or somewhere.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 06, 2022, 09:35:54 AM




Peddle hiz ass, aina?

  don't think lew wants him on his team anymore, no?  hope he didn't hurt his self back pedaling however...gotta go along to get along, eyn'er?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2022, 12:28:03 PM
Wait till next year.  If AD or anyone isn't healthy, Lebron will manufacture ways to play only 30-40 games and save himself for 2023-2024 playing in Cleveland or NYC or somewhere.

Did Wades hijack your account to get in another cheap shot at LeBron? If what you say is true, why didn't he do that this year?

Instead, he is out on the floor more minutes per game than every single player in the NBA except for Siakim & Van Vleet. And that is your is your rational for saying he will dog it next year. Sad. He is also not only on the floor, but he is putting up MVP-type numbers.

Yup. Sounds like a quitter to me. I don't even know if QAnon could come up with a sillier concept.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2022, 01:25:12 PM
Did Wades hijack your account to get in another cheap shot at LeBron? If what you say is true, why didn't he do that this year?

Instead, he is out on the floor more minutes per game than every single player in the NBA except for Siakim & Van Vleet. And that is your is your rational for saying he will dog it next year. Sad. He is also not only on the floor, but he is putting up MVP-type numbers.

Yup. Sounds like a quitter to me. I don't even know if QAnon could come up with a sillier concept.

Why didn't he do it this year?  After he made moves to get Westbrook and reshape the team?  They were in playoff contention all through Feb and March.  Of course he wouldn't bail then.  And everyone else near him in MPG leads has played 10+ games more than him.  He's not even top 50 in the league in minutes played. And save me the MVP talk.  His advanced stats...VORP, Win Shares, etc... are all well behind anyone else in the MVP discussion.  He's put up empty stats on a bad team.

Look at 2018-2019 season.  There was no significant injury.  Just Lebron deciding to take off plenty of games on a bad team going nowhere while he waiting for the offseason to get AD.

Plays 40 min a game and scores 38/39 in 2 games against the Pelicans.  But sits out games against good teams like the Nuggets, Suns, Mavs, and Jazz with the season literally on the line due to his "sore ankle"...ok.  Keep carrying his water
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 06, 2022, 01:45:16 PM
Why didn't he do it this year?  After he made moves to get Westbrook and reshape the team?  They were in playoff contention all through Feb and March.  Of course he wouldn't bail then.  And everyone else near him in MPG leads has played 10+ games more than him.  He's not even top 50 in the league in minutes played. And save me the MVP talk.  His advanced stats...VORP, Win Shares, etc... are all well behind anyone else in the MVP discussion.  He's put up empty stats on a bad team.

Look at 2018-2019 season.  There was no significant injury.  Just Lebron deciding to take off plenty of games on a bad team going nowhere while he waiting for the offseason to get AD.

Plays 40 min a game and scores 38/39 in 2 games against the Pelicans.  But sits out games against good teams like the Nuggets, Suns, Mavs, and Jazz with the season literally on the line due to his "sore ankle"...ok.  Keep carrying his water

Pretty pathetic reply. He has played more minutes in the last decade than any other player in the NBA. And most of those games he was in his 30s. Sounds like a guy that’s a quitter, huh?

You should be ashamed. You can’t attack him for his play, so you attack his integrity. Good job, Laura.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 06, 2022, 01:52:06 PM
Pretty pathetic reply.

Stats and facts to counter your statements are pretty pathetic, for suuurrreee.  Lacked punchy winners like "QAnon" and a bunch of qualitative fluff.  Sorry that I lack your superior infallible eye test capabilities
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 06, 2022, 01:55:28 PM
Why didn't he do it this year?  After he made moves to get Westbrook and reshape the team?  They were in playoff contention all through Feb and March.  Of course he wouldn't bail then.  And everyone else near him in MPG leads has played 10+ games more than him.  He's not even top 50 in the league in minutes played. And save me the MVP talk.  His advanced stats...VORP, Win Shares, etc... are all well behind anyone else in the MVP discussion.  He's put up empty stats on a bad team.

Look at 2018-2019 season.  There was no significant injury.  Just Lebron deciding to take off plenty of games on a bad team going nowhere while he waiting for the offseason to get AD.

Plays 40 min a game and scores 38/39 in 2 games against the Pelicans.  But sits out games against good teams like the Nuggets, Suns, Mavs, and Jazz with the season literally on the line due to his "sore ankle"...ok.  Keep carrying his water

I mean, he's also 37 years old.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 06, 2022, 05:11:02 PM
It 's difficult for me to understand why Lebron wanted to team up with Westbrook.  I and others here predicted it would be a disaster because it's a terrible fit.  It's even worse than I imagined because Westbrook doesn’t play any defense.  I can't figure out why that's the case with his athleticism.  Anyway, I know the guy is a 1st ballot hall of famer but I honestly think he's a liability right now even with some good stats.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 06, 2022, 08:18:39 PM
It 's difficult for me to understand why Lebron wanted to team up with Westbrook.  I and others here predicted it would be a disaster because it's a terrible fit.  It's even worse than I imagined because Westbrook doesn’t play any defense.  I can't figure out why that's the case with his athleticism.  Anyway, I know the guy is a 1st ballot hall of famer but I honestly think he's a liability right now even with some good stats.

That was never going to work. Westbrook is an amazing player, but he is a playmaker. He needs the ball in his hands.

Lebron always will dominate the ball. Pound it into the ground for 15 seconds then either shoot, or pass at the end of the shot clock...meaning he scores, gets an assist, or they miss/TO. His game design means he will always get his offensive stats.

He doesn't work with players that do best with the ball in their hands (e.g. Westbrook/Davis). But Westbrook is an extreme case. Westbrook's game is predicated on him being a playmaker, which means he has no value paired up with Lebron on the court at the same time.

In my opinion, Lebron drags the team down as much as Westbrook does. Swap Steph Curry and Lebron, and the Lakers (with Steph are in the playoffs), and Lebron with the warriors would have been a sub .500 team (until Klay came back...Klay is a type of player that pairs well with Lebron). I think much of the problem is Lebron doesn't understand the type of player he needs next to him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 06, 2022, 09:27:12 PM
That was never going to work. Westbrook is an amazing player, but he is a playmaker. He needs the ball in his hands.

Lebron always will dominate the ball. Pound it into the ground for 15 seconds then either shoot, or pass at the end of the shot clock...meaning he scores, gets an assist, or they miss/TO. His game design means he will always get his offensive stats.

He doesn't work with players that do best with the ball in their hands (e.g. Westbrook/Davis). But Westbrook is an extreme case. Westbrook's game is predicated on him being a playmaker, which means he has no value paired up with Lebron on the court at the same time.

In my opinion, Lebron drags the team down as much as Westbrook does. Swap Steph Curry and Lebron, and the Lakers (with Steph are in the playoffs), and Lebron with the warriors would have been a sub .500 team (until Klay came back...Klay is a type of player that would pair well with Lebron). I think much of the problem is Lebron doesn't understand the type of player he needs next to him.

Westbrook may need the ball in his hands but he's never really been a #1 option than coukd take a team anywhere  Wade altered his game with Lebron but was always much more efficient than Westbrook.  It seeks like Westbrook's shot went from average to awful for some reason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 07, 2022, 07:52:30 AM
Westbrook may need the ball in his hands but he's never really been a #1 option than coukd take a team anywhere  Wade altered his game with Lebron but was always much more efficient than Westbrook.  It seeks like Westbrook's shot went from average to awful for some reason.


That's just not an accurate statement.  Westbrook was pretty darn efficient toward the end of his days in OKC and in 2016-17 lead the league in PER, BPM and VORP.  There was simply nobody around him except a young Oladipo and Kanter.  His problem is that his game is predicated on quickness and he's just slowing down.  He can't get to the spots on the floor where he used to get.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 07, 2022, 08:04:53 PM
What happened to the Bucks' defense?  They look horrific on that end of the floor.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on April 07, 2022, 09:05:58 PM
What happened to the Bucks' defense?  They look horrific on that end of the floor.

Won tho
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 07, 2022, 10:02:29 PM
Looking like a really solid chance its Bucks/Nets in Round 1.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 09, 2022, 12:07:58 PM
Looking like a really solid chance its Bucks/Nets in Round 1.

They are guaranteed to finish 7th or 8th. I personally would have avoided, but this guarantees home court if you get to the 2nd round. If you can't get there, you don't deserve to be there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 09, 2022, 12:57:01 PM
It's looking like Bucks/Nets.  If they beat Brooklyn they will be more prepared to advance in the playoffs than vs Chicago.  The Bulls are a complete dumpster fire.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 09, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
It's looking like Bucks/Nets.  If they beat Brooklyn they will be more prepared to advance in the playoffs than vs Chicago.  The Bulls are a complete dumpster fire.

The Bucks don’t need to be “prepared.” 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 09, 2022, 06:53:34 PM
Boston could still take the 2 seed with a Cleveland win over the bucks and Boston win.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 10, 2022, 12:29:50 AM
Boston could still take the 2 seed with a Cleveland win over the bucks and Boston win.

And the Bucks will be resting everyone and Boston likely has reason to avoid the four seed and Toronto
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 10, 2022, 12:46:22 AM
This is like last year when everyone was saying the Bucks should lose to the Heat to avoid playing the Heat in the first round, and then the Bucks came out and kicked their ass to lock in the matchup and swept their ass on their way to a title.

I don’t think the Bucks are going to be throwing any game to get any specific matchups. Play your best ball and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 10, 2022, 11:31:38 AM
This is like last year when everyone was saying the Bucks should lose to the Heat to avoid playing the Heat in the first round, and then the Bucks came out and kicked their ass to lock in the matchup and swept their ass on their way to a title.

I don’t think the Bucks are going to be throwing any game to get any specific matchups. Play your best ball and let the chips fall where they may.

The Bucks are resting four starters and another two rotation players today. I’m sure the remaining guys will go out there to win, but they obviously aren’t gunning for the 2 seed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 10, 2022, 12:10:22 PM
The Bucks are resting four starters and another two rotation players today. I’m sure the remaining guys will go out there to win, but they obviously aren’t gunning for the 2 seed.

Boston probably doesn't want the 4 seed.  Although I'm not sure what Memphis will do with Morant just getting beck.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 10, 2022, 07:54:15 PM
I'm not so sure the Bucks made the right decision giving up the #2 seed.  Boston is good, especially if Williams comes back.   I don't see much of a reason for avoiding Brooklyn in the 1st round if you think you'll meet them in the 2nd round.  But more importantly Boston may very well be better than Brooklyn and will certainly be favored in that series. Why give up home court in the 2nd round?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 10, 2022, 08:32:41 PM
Wish the Bulls season didn’t go to hell, a Bulls/Bucks playoff series would have been fun under different circumstances. Bucks will make very quick work of the Bulls in round 1.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 10, 2022, 08:34:21 PM
I'm not so sure the Bucks made the right decision giving up the #2 seed.  Boston is good, especially if Williams comes back.   I don't see much of a reason for avoiding Brooklyn in the 1st round if you think you'll meet them in the 2nd round.  But more importantly Boston may very well be better than Brooklyn and will certainly be favored in that series. Why give up home court in the 2nd round?

Cause the first round opponent is easier.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 10, 2022, 08:48:26 PM
Cause the first round opponent is easier.

But losing in the 1st or 2nd rd would be disappointing for the Bucks.  We'll agree to disagree Fluffy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 10, 2022, 09:13:36 PM
But losing in the 1st or 2nd rd would be disappointing for the Bucks.  We'll agree to disagree Fluffy.

Bucks are not afraid of playing an extra road game.

They also are not afraid of any oppenent. But they will make mince meat of Chicago. Nets would make them exert more.

The path they have now is just fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 10, 2022, 09:38:29 PM
Bucks are not afraid of playing an extra road game.

They also are not afraid of any oppenent. But they will make mince meat of Chicago. Nets would make them exert more.

The path they have now is just fine.

I guess that's a fair point.....but I can concede that and still disagree with Fluffy.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 10, 2022, 10:21:22 PM
I actually think Boston matches up fairly well with Brooklyn. I'm not advancing the Nets quite yet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 10, 2022, 10:40:24 PM
I actually think Boston matches up fairly well with Brooklyn. I'm not advancing the Nets quite yet.

No doubt.  Obviously Durant is Durant but the Nets aren't good defensively.  Also, I as talented as Kyrie is getting 4 great games out of his isn't a given.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 10, 2022, 11:33:57 PM
I'm not so sure the Bucks made the right decision giving up the #2 seed.  Boston is good, especially if Williams comes back.   I don't see much of a reason for avoiding Brooklyn in the 1st round if you think you'll meet them in the 2nd round.  But more importantly Boston may very well be better than Brooklyn and will certainly be favored in that series. Why give up home court in the 2nd round?

I think it is pretty simple. Milwaukee would rather play Chicago then the winner of Boston/Brooklyn then play Brooklyn followed by either the 76ers or the Celtics.

There are 4 contenders besides the Bucks in the east. No harm in making 2 of them play each other in the first round while the Bucks get to beat up on the Bulls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 07:40:06 AM
I think it is pretty simple. Milwaukee would rather play Chicago then the winner of Boston/Brooklyn then play Brooklyn followed by either the 76ers or the Celtics.

There are 4 contenders besides the Bucks in the east. No harm in making 2 of them play each other in the first round while the Bucks get to beat up on the Bulls.

I'm generally not one for tanking, and if the basketball gods had any sense of humor they'd have the Bulls rise up to somehow pull off the upset - or at the very least have the Bucks lose to the Celtics in G7 in Boston in R2.

However, it's hard to argue with the logic of playing an obviously reeling Chicago team in the first round while two very good teams beat each other up.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised the Celtics didn't tank right back.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 11, 2022, 08:00:41 AM
Frankly, I'm a little surprised the Celtics didn't tank right back.

If they did though, they would have ended up in the 4 seed which puts them up against the 1 seed in the second round. It also likely means never having home court advantage after round 1, whereas the Bucks could have home court advantage in round 2 if the Nets pull off the upset.

Thirdly, they would have ended up playing Toronto in round one. There is some speculation that there is at least one unvaccinated player of note on the Celtics  which would have put them in a bind for the games in Toronto.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2022, 08:20:38 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Toronto upset the Sixers too.  That playoff series is going to be a grind.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 11, 2022, 08:27:27 AM
Am I too much of a homer if I think it was more about getting guys rest and preventing injury than tanking?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 11, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
Am I too much of a homer if I think it was more about getting guys rest and preventing injury than tanking?

I'm sure that was a factor....but if Brooklyn wasn't the likely 7 seed, I bet they play to win that last game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 08:36:28 AM
If they did though, they would have ended up in the 4 seed which puts them up against the 1 seed in the second round. It also likely means never having home court advantage after round 1, whereas the Bucks could have home court advantage in round 2 if the Nets pull off the upset.

Thirdly, they would have ended up playing Toronto in round one. There is some speculation that there is at least one unvaccinated player of note on the Celtics  which would have put them in a bind for the games in Toronto.

Thanks for that info, TAMU. I wasn't sure how the tiebreakers stacked up. That makes sense.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
Word is that rocky and 'topper are gonna spend exactly 8 seconds each on Scoop today so that each earns a $306,000 bonus.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 11, 2022, 09:16:39 AM
Ja Morant is good player, but at this point I wouldn't say he's top 20.  I'd say 30-40 but rising.

Luka is top 10. Trae Young top 20 based on last year but could go either up or down a little.

Herro maybe top 200.

Updating my player ratings after the season:

Luka is pushing towards the top 5, but I have him 6th.  Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, and Lebron are my top 5.

Ja Morant made a leap to the top 20.  I can see the argument for him being top 10, but he missed a lot of games and the Grizzlies still won a bunch without him.  I'll say 15th for now but still ascending.

Trae Young had a strong year individually but the Hawks as a team didn't progress.  I'll put him just inside the top 15, up a few spots from the start of the year.

Tyler Herro made a big jump, upping his usage and maintaining his efficiency.  Still a bit streaky as a scorer and not a great defender.  I'll move him into the top 100, but not top 75.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2022, 09:40:44 AM
Updating my player ratings after the season:

Luka is pushing towards the top 5, but I have him 6th.  Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, and Lebron are my top 5.

Ja Morant made a leap to the top 20.  I can see the argument for him being top 10, but he missed a lot of games and the Grizzlies still won a bunch without him.  I'll say 15th for now but still ascending.

Trae Young had a strong year individually but the Hawks as a team didn't progress.  I'll put him just inside the top 15, up a few spots from the start of the year.

Tyler Herro made a big jump, upping his usage and maintaining his efficiency.  Still a bit streaky as a scorer and not a great defender.  I'll move him into the top 100, but not top 75.

I don't know how Lebron makes the top 5. His stats look good, because he was stat hunting. If you watched his games, he often sat around doing nothing on defense, often didn't even both trying to get back, and then would look for his stats on offense.

Yes, he still had some all world games, but largely he put up big numbers on a bad team (of his design) by stat hunting. Another player putting up his same stats on a lottery team would be disregarded as best player on a bad team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 09:47:16 AM
Updating my player ratings after the season:

Luka is pushing towards the top 5, but I have him 6th.  Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, and Lebron are my top 5.

Ja Morant made a leap to the top 20.  I can see the argument for him being top 10, but he missed a lot of games and the Grizzlies still won a bunch without him.  I'll say 15th for now but still ascending.

Trae Young had a strong year individually but the Hawks as a team didn't progress.  I'll put him just inside the top 15, up a few spots from the start of the year.

Tyler Herro made a big jump, upping his usage and maintaining his efficiency.  Still a bit streaky as a scorer and not a great defender.  I'll move him into the top 100, but not top 75.

Where you got my guy, LaMelo ... and my other guy, Miles Bridges?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 11, 2022, 09:57:07 AM
Am I too much of a homer if I think it was more about getting guys rest and preventing injury than tanking?

3rd game in 4 nights definitely played part of it. Look at what happened to Doncic last night. I'm sure the Bucks wanted to avoid that just as much as a series with Brooklyn.

It was advantageous on both fronts for them to sit guys yesterday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 11, 2022, 11:21:28 AM
I don't know how Lebron makes the top 5. His stats look good, because he was stat hunting. If you watched his games, he often sat around doing nothing on defense, often didn't even both trying to get back, and then would look for his stats on offense.

Yes, he still had some all world games, but largely he put up big numbers on a bad team (of his design) by stat hunting. Another player putting up his same stats on a lottery team would be disregarded as best player on a bad team.

I still give Lebron some credit for past performance.  And his efficiency was still superb.

As a defacto GM, Lebron absolutely stunk.  He deserves all the heat for that, but the man can still ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 11, 2022, 11:35:25 AM
Where you got my guy, LaMelo ... and my other guy, Miles Bridges?

LaMelo around 35.  Really like his game and think he will keep ascending.  Wouldn't surprise me to see Ball make a Morant like jump next year.

Miles Bridges...haven't really dug in to him.  My gut reaction says somewhere between 100-150.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on April 11, 2022, 11:40:12 AM
https://youtu.be/1CmqTS7Pcz0

Bam Adebayo talks about how he wants to be in a category with DWade only.

Sidebar: Would you be able to conduct a serious interview with the host in that attire? It's 2022 do whatever the heck you want I suppose!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 11:50:16 AM
LaMelo around 35.  Really like his game and think he will keep ascending.  Wouldn't surprise me to see Ball make a Morant like jump next year.

Miles Bridges...haven't really dug in to him.  My gut reaction says somewhere between 100-150.

Thanks.

LaMelo has special offensive talent. Amazing court vision and passing ability, and nearly 40% 3-point shooting despite funky form. He'll also take (and make) floaters from anywhere 15 feet and in. When he's hitting from the outside, he's pretty much unstoppable. Underrated rebounder - nearly 7 per game. Only occasionally bothers to try on D though.

Bridges is extremely talented and is gonna be very, very rich after betting on himself and turning down about $17M/yr before this season. But I don't blame you for not checking him out. He plays for a smaller-market team in the shadow of a charismatic all-star.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 11, 2022, 12:04:10 PM
Updating my player ratings after the season:

Luka is pushing towards the top 5, but I have him 6th.  Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, and Lebron are my top 5.

Ja Morant made a leap to the top 20.  I can see the argument for him being top 10, but he missed a lot of games and the Grizzlies still won a bunch without him.  I'll say 15th for now but still ascending.

Trae Young had a strong year individually but the Hawks as a team didn't progress.  I'll put him just inside the top 15, up a few spots from the start of the year.

Tyler Herro made a big jump, upping his usage and maintaining his efficiency.  Still a bit streaky as a scorer and not a great defender.  I'll move him into the top 100, but not top 75.

I have a hard time not seeing Herro in the top 75. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2022, 12:14:11 PM
I have a hard time not seeing Herro in the top 75. 

He's ranked 80th in VORP.  Right above Pat Connaughton.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 11, 2022, 01:35:52 PM
I still give Lebron some credit for past performance. And his efficiency was still superb.

As a defacto GM, Lebron absolutely stunk.  He deserves all the heat for that, but the man can still ball.

Reasonable. Thank you for the response.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 11, 2022, 03:25:47 PM
He's ranked 80th in VORP.  Right above Pat Connaughton.

So because he's ranked 79 in this category, and Connaughton is at 80, are you saying they're essentially even players?  I'm not a Herro fan but obviously not a single GM or knowledgeable fan would ever think these two guys have similar impact on a roster. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2022, 03:56:00 PM
So because he's ranked 79 in this category, and Connaughton is at 80, are you saying they're essentially even players?  I'm not a Herro fan but obviously not a single GM or knowledgeable fan would ever think these two guys have similar impact on a roster. 


They are different players no doubt.  Connaughton is a low usage role player, while Herro is a high usage (18th in the NBA) starter/role player.  I would suggest that PC performs extremely well in his limited role, while Herro is up and down in his.  Some games he excels, and some he struggles, leaving him with a VORP that puts him 80th and a PER around 112th.  I mean of all those who average 20 minutes plus per game on Miami this year, his TS% is the second lowest.

Don't get me wrong.  The dude can get hot and carry them at times.  But he also can have real bad stretches, which is why he ends up where he does.  My guess is with time he will climb up the efficiency charts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Oh and let me just say that I agree with you Mugs that a GM would love to have Herro.  At 22, he has huge upside so he is going to get a big contract.

But that contract is betting on who he will become as a player - not just who he is now. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 11, 2022, 04:31:30 PM

They are different players no doubt.  Connaughton is a low usage role player, while Herro is a high usage (18th in the NBA) starter/role player.  I would suggest that PC performs extremely well in his limited role, while Herro is up and down in his.  Some games he excels, and some he struggles, leaving him with a VORP that puts him 80th and a PER around 112th.  I mean of all those who average 20 minutes plus per game on Miami this year, his TS% is the second lowest.

Don't get me wrong.  The dude can get hot and carry them at times.  But he also can have real bad stretches, which is why he ends up where he does.  My guess is with time he will climb up the efficiency charts.

I'm not a stats/analytics guy but I do know that Herro is 1 of 25 guys or so that average 20 a night.  My guess is if you look among the guards that average 20 points a game Herro's FG% is probably about average and his 3p and FT% above average. 

He's not a particularly good distributor, doesn't get to the line much, and can kick the ball away.  But as far as the. "real bad stretches" my contention is that most perimeter guys in the league,  who are high volume shooters averaging 20, have bad stretches.  Off the top of my head:  Young, Curry, Mitchell, Lillard, McCollum, Harden,  Lavine, Van Vleet, Garland, Brown, Tatum, Booker, etc, etc, etc.  They can all go brick city for extended periods of time.   Now I'm not saying he's near the top tier of this group in his level of play but he still averages 20 and takes 15+ shots for a reason.  I'd be curious if there is anyone else among the top 25 scorers that wouldn't be thought of as a top 75 player?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 11, 2022, 05:47:57 PM
Not sure why you're fixated on "top 75," Muggs. What difference does it make?

Herro's good at what he's asked to do. Let's not make him out to be something special yet. He's basically Terry Rozier -- and I don't say that as a slight; Rozier's a good player.

We'll see if Herro justifies the payday he's gonna get.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2022, 05:52:17 PM
I'm not a stats/analytics guy but I do know that Herro is 1 of 25 guys or so that average 20 a night.  My guess is if you look among the guards that average 20 points a game Herro's FG% is probably about average and his 3p and FT% above average. 

He's not a particularly good distributor, doesn't get to the line much, and can kick the ball away.  But as far as the. "real bad stretches" my contention is that most perimeter guys in the league,  who are high volume shooters averaging 20, have bad stretches.  Off the top of my head:  Young, Curry, Mitchell, Lillard, McCollum, Harden,  Lavine, Van Vleet, Garland, Brown, Tatum, Booker, etc, etc, etc.  They can all go brick city for extended periods of time.   Now I'm not saying he's near the top tier of this group in his level of play but he still averages 20 and takes 15+ shots for a reason.  I'd be curious if there is anyone else among the top 25 scorers that wouldn't be thought of as a top 75 player?

After just a brief look, Herro’s TS% is lower than most guards who average 20 ppg.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 11, 2022, 07:56:06 PM
Not sure why you're fixated on "top 75," Muggs. What difference does it make?

Herro's good at what he's asked to do. Let's not make him out to be something special yet. He's basically Terry Rozier -- and I don't say that as a slight; Rozier's a good player.

We'll see if Herro justifies the payday he's gonna get.

Tyler with one more year on his contract. He's been a lot of fun to watch, and he's growing under Lowry's mentorship.

Dipo's contract is up, and he just dropped 40 in the season closer to the Magic. I'm not sure Dipo gets much run on the Heat in the playoffs, and I wonder how much he gets paid next year. He's been on a vet minimum for the Heat the whole time while he rehabbed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 11, 2022, 08:45:24 PM
Not sure why you're fixated on "top 75," Muggs. What difference does it make?

Herro's good at what he's asked to do. Let's not make him out to be something special yet. He's basically Terry Rozier -- and I don't say that as a slight; Rozier's a good player.

I'm not fixated, it just sounds unreasonable to me.  Personally I don't care for Herro and hope he's terrible in the playoffs.

We'll see if Herro justifies the payday he's gonna get.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 12, 2022, 07:56:09 AM
Lakers supposedly want Nick Nurse as their next coach, but he's under contract and they'd have to trade for him.

And they don't have any first-round draft picks until 2026.

The Athletic says Juwan Howard might also be a candidate, and that could be interesting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 12, 2022, 08:27:54 AM
I have a hard time not seeing Herro in the top 75.

Herro is still a weak defender.  He's also inconsistent.  His true shooting percentage , as was discussed earlier in this thread, bears that out.

Consistency is what separates the great players from the good players.  So, while Herro looks like an All-Star at times, he lacks All-Star consistency.  That's why I put Herro in the 76-100 tier.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 12, 2022, 08:41:46 AM
Herro vs Connaughton is comparing apples and oranges.  If they were traded for each other straight up, the Bucks and Heat might both get worse.

On the Bucks, Herro would be reduced to the 4th option behind Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday.  He could match Connaughton's offense but the Bucks would get worse on defense.  Overall a net loss.

On the Heat, Connaughton wouldn't be able to replicate Herro's volume scoring.  The Heat have plenty of role playing shooters already like Max Strus and Duncan Robinson.  Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo are good scorers but not good enough to carry an offense by themselves. A volume scorer is more valuable to the Heat due to their roster construction.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 12, 2022, 09:37:55 AM
If you have a subscription to the Athletic, Eric Nehm went deep on Jrue Holiday's defensive prowess. Including film clips with Jrue giving analysis. It'll take some time to get through, but if you're a basketball nerd, it's really fun.

https://theathletic.com/3203712/2022/04/11/bucks-guard-jrue-holiday-on-his-secrets-to-being-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
Herro vs Connaughton is comparing apples and oranges.  If they were traded for each other straight up, the Bucks and Heat might both get worse.

On the Bucks, Herro would be reduced to the 4th option behind Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday.  He could match Connaughton's offense but the Bucks would get worse on defense.  Overall a net loss.

On the Heat, Connaughton wouldn't be able to replicate Herro's volume scoring.  The Heat have plenty of role playing shooters already like Max Strus and Duncan Robinson.  Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo are good scorers but not good enough to carry an offense by themselves. A volume scorer is more valuable to the Heat due to their roster construction.

Right.  I was only comparing them because they had similar VORP scores, but their games and their roles are completely different.


Herro is still a weak defender.  He's also inconsistent.  His true shooting percentage , as was discussed earlier in this thread, bears that out.

Consistency is what separates the great players from the good players.  So, while Herro looks like an All-Star at times, he lacks All-Star consistency.  That's why I put Herro in the 76-100 tier.

Exactly.  And at 22, that's to be expected somewhat.  The question the Heat have to answer is whether or not he will become more consistent.  Remember that his is only four years removed from high school.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 12, 2022, 10:52:14 AM
If you have a subscription to the Athletic, Eric Nehm went deep on Jrue Holiday's defensive prowess. Including film clips with Jrue giving analysis. It'll take some time to get through, but if you're a basketball nerd, it's really fun.

https://theathletic.com/3203712/2022/04/11/bucks-guard-jrue-holiday-on-his-secrets-to-being-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/

Absolutely. One of my favorite articles of the year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 12, 2022, 11:21:32 AM
Exactly.  And at 22, that's to be expected somewhat.  The question the Heat have to answer is whether or not he will become more consistent.  Remember that his is only four years removed from high school.

Totally fair.  I think its just an interesting revisit cause Herro was getting mocked for wanting to be talked about with other young stars, when all he's done is continue to improve.  Does he need to get more consistent?  Absolutely.  But all he's done YoY is improve his stats across the board as his usage and role continues to grow.

Not to mention Connaughton is likely at his ceiling where as Herro has a ways to go potentially.  If I had to bet, Herro gets a big contract but also lives up to the majority of its value.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2022, 11:38:06 AM
Some of the criticism at the beginning of the year made sense.  He was a key player in the 2020 bubbled playoffs, but did not show much growth from there in 2021.  He has been better this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 12, 2022, 02:08:41 PM
Some of the criticism at the beginning of the year made sense.  He was a key player in the 2020 bubbled playoffs, but did not show much growth from there in 2021.  He has been better this year.

Good thing too. The Heat really leaned on him hard with their injuries. He played the most minutes on the team this season, and really thrived coming off the bench. It'll be interesting to see what role he plays when the team's healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 12, 2022, 02:26:17 PM
Totally fair.  I think its just an interesting revisit cause Herro was getting mocked for wanting to be talked about with other young stars, when all he's done is continue to improve.  Does he need to get more consistent?  Absolutely.  But all he's done YoY is improve his stats across the board as his usage and role continues to grow.

Not to mention Connaughton is likely at his ceiling where as Herro has a ways to go potentially.  If I had to bet, Herro gets a big contract but also lives up to the majority of its value.

I think Herro should still be getting mocked for saying he should be in the same conversation as Luca Doncic, Ja Morant, and Trae Young.  Herro's better at 22 than I thought he'd ever be (at least offensively), so obviously he deserves a ton of credit.  But those are two guys who will be legitimate MVP candidates every year for the next decade and a third guy who's not far behind those two and was the best player on a team he carried to the Eastern Conference Finals last year.  Herro is good.  He's not in the same category as Doncic, Morant, or Trae (who is a category below the first two himself).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2022, 08:36:35 PM
So Kyrie just said post game that he’s fasting for Ramadan. Is he Muslim now?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2022, 08:44:09 PM
So Kyrie just said post game that he’s fasting for Ramadan. Is he Muslim now?

He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2022, 08:49:13 PM
He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).

Ah. I just thought it was Kyrie being Kyrie.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2022, 09:01:37 PM
Ah. I just thought it was Kyrie being Kyrie.

He does crazy so often, it is hard to keep up with his latest crazy. This one seems to be an actual legit change in lifestyle. I just remember it, because it was talked about during the last playoffs a bunch...then forgotten about, was reminded of it during his postgame interview too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 12, 2022, 09:50:31 PM
The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 12, 2022, 10:20:18 PM
The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made.

To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 12, 2022, 10:28:08 PM
To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.

The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 12, 2022, 10:38:48 PM
The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.

Again, I am not arguing in favor of this format. You said: I have no idea why this change was made. I simply explained why.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 12, 2022, 10:39:54 PM
The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.

If Minnesota loses two straight games (at home), one of which is to a team with 12 more losses than them, then they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

They get 2 chances to play and be in. They need to prove they belong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 12, 2022, 10:53:19 PM
If Minnesota loses two straight games (at home), one of which is to a team with 12 more losses than them, then they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

They get 2 chances to play and be in. They need to prove they belong.

I dunno.....can't anything happen in two games vs different opponents? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 12, 2022, 10:55:18 PM
He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).

He actually said he was embracing Islam and all religions.  Cause he still practices some of the Native American spiritual practices like sage.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 12, 2022, 11:37:15 PM
I dunno.....can't anything happen in two games vs different opponents?

It can, but it is unusual.

Now if you want to talk about baseball’s playoff format - that’s a whole different thing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 12, 2022, 11:47:30 PM
The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made.

In addition to start 82 said,  it also cuts down on teams tanking, which again keeps fans more interested and spending money
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 13, 2022, 12:13:05 AM
Wolves win.

Pat Bev full blown acting like they won the title and crying was a bit much considering he goes to the playoffs every year. But otherwise great environment.

Packed house. Rowdy crowd. A franchise that deserves to celebrate a little play in. Just needed something positive.

Tonight proved 1 thing for absolute certainty. This is Ants team.

Another embarring display by KAT in a big moment. What a headcase. Jimmy was right on that one. Ant tho, hes got the DNA. Hopefully over the years he really makes the jump.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 13, 2022, 05:02:58 AM
To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.

Yep. It puts meaningful games toward the start of the playoffs while also giving the top seeds time to rest their players a bit.

I think it’s a fun little beginning.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2022, 07:30:16 AM
Yep. It puts meaningful games toward the start of the playoffs while also giving the top seeds time to rest their players a bit.

I think it’s a fun little beginning.

Yeah, it's growing on me. The atmosphere in Minnesota helped answer Muggsy's question of why. But I'd also be fine if they didn't have a play-in tournament.

I also don't feel bad at all for teams that get eliminated from the play-in tournament. Want to avoid the play-in? Win more regular-season games. Want to advance out of the play-in? Win your play-in game(s). It is 100% in your control. It's like Buzz's team and others that get "snubbed" by the NCAAT committee. Want to make the tourney? Win more!

it also cuts down on teams tanking, which again keeps fans more interested and spending money

Good point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 13, 2022, 07:38:55 AM
The play in is okay I guess.  But there really should be some sort of rule that you need to be within X number of games of a team to make it necessary.  "Win more games if you want to avoid it" is a nice idea, but the fact of the matter is that if the Wolves had lost last night and the Spurs win tonight, the Wolves would have to win a win or go home game against a team that, over the course of an 82 game season, they were 12 games better than.  They DID win more games.  A LOT more games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 13, 2022, 07:58:44 AM
Yeah, it's growing on me. The atmosphere in Minnesota helped answer Muggsy's question of why. But I'd also be fine if they didn't have a play-in tournament.

I also don't feel bad at all for teams that get eliminated from the play-in tournament. Want to avoid the play-in? Win more regular-season games. Want to advance out of the play-in? Win your play-in game(s). It is 100% in your control. It's like Buzz's team and others that get "snubbed" by the NCAAT committee. Want to make the tourney? Win more!

Good point.

Yeah I get your reasoning. Completely.

Its just in some cases, like the Wolves this year it does create a pretty iffy scenario. They were 10-12 games ahead of 9/10. So they really did prove themselves, for many months. Lets say they lose to a Paul George and getting healthy veteran clips squad. 1 bad game vs Pelicans/Spurs and done. Not a bad series, a game. Also maybe the wolves have injuries for that game.

Its a bit much.

The 1 seeded Heat in the east had as big of a gap between them and the 10th seed as the Wolves at the 7 did in with the 9/10 in the West. Thats crazy.

Play in worked wonders this year for the East. A bit uneven for the West. But it isnt going anywhere so might as well win your games.

In the end, the Wolves played 1 extra game and got the seed they deserved all along.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2022, 08:21:07 AM
I understand what wades and PGs are saying, and tweaking how it's done would be fine by me.

And yet I still can't feel much for a team that had its fate in its own hands. Glad the Wolves took advantage of having their own fate in their own hands last night, overcoming a terrible performance from their star to beat Play-In P and the Clips.

The Hornets had a real nice season, with 43 wins. They could have avoided the play-in if they only had avoided late-season home losses to the Knicks, Pistons and Magic. I wish they had avoided the play-in ... but they didn't play well enough to do so. Hopefully, they will be on their game this week.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 13, 2022, 08:30:19 AM
In reality it's insane that 16 teams make the playoffs anyway.  Adding four more is just the cherry on top of the insanity sundae.

But that's fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 13, 2022, 08:40:03 AM
In reality it's insane that 16 teams make the playoffs anyway.  Adding four more is just the cherry on top of the insanity sundae.

But that's fine.
Why not have Orlando play Detroit, winner plays Indiana, winner plays Washington, winner plays Knicks, winner plays Charlotte for the right to that 10th spot. The NCAA has conference tournaments, why not the NBA?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 13, 2022, 08:48:49 AM
Why not have Orlando play Detroit, winner plays Indiana, winner plays Washington, winner plays Knicks, winner plays Charlotte for the right to that 10th spot. The NCAA has conference tournaments, why not the NBA?


That would be fine by me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 13, 2022, 09:03:08 AM

That would be fine by me.
Me too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2022, 08:29:12 PM
Fine performance by the Hornets. See ya next season!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 16, 2022, 11:54:35 AM
Awesome feature about Juan on ESPN leading into the Mavs/Jazz game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 16, 2022, 11:55:54 AM
Wonderful story on Juan Toscano-Anderson on ESPN just now. Didn’t realize that Al Attles’ wife was his third grade teacher and encouraged his mom to get him more involved in the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 16, 2022, 04:31:01 PM
This Memphis/Minnesota game is very entertaining.  I didn't realize how good Edwards has become.  He and Morant are in a separate tier for explosiveness rankings.  Edwards has a bit of D-Wade in his game.  Look out for Minnesota next year.  Memphis has a legitimate shot this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 16, 2022, 05:17:07 PM
That clear path foul call is terrible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 16, 2022, 06:20:24 PM
That clear path foul call is terrible.

That was absurd.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 16, 2022, 08:12:40 PM
That clear path foul call is terrible.

The calls were correct - the rule is absurd the way it is written.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 17, 2022, 12:15:38 PM
If you had the under 6.5 minutes until Jimmy pulled out the fake tough guy act in the Playoffs you’re a winner!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 12:26:53 PM
Is Miami the best defensive team in the East?  They've apparently "drawn" 112 charges this year.  That's crazy.  It's interesting that no one seems to be talking about them winning it....or winning the East for that matter.  They seem to be a pretty complete team and deep. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 17, 2022, 01:31:24 PM
If you had the under 6.5 minutes until Jimmy pulled out the fake tough guy act in the Playoffs you’re a winner!

He has 11/4/3 on 50% shooting and his team is up 25.  But go off totally unbiased poster
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 17, 2022, 01:37:32 PM
He has 11/4/3 on 50% shooting and his team is up 25.  But go off totally unbiased poster

Glad he's having a good game.

Like I said, if you had under 6.5 minutes into the Playoffs for Jimmy to pull out his fake tough guy act, you're a winner!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 02:02:47 PM
Glad he's having a good game.

Like I said, if you had under 6.5 minutes into the Playoffs for Jimmy to pull out his fake tough guy act, you're a winner!

What did he do?   I missed it.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 02:11:01 PM
I will say that the Butler/Jokic incident was pretty laughable.  Jokic is a tank and would crush Jimmy like an ant.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 17, 2022, 02:18:12 PM
Glad he's having a good game.

Like I said, if you had under 6.5 minutes into the Playoffs for Jimmy to pull out his fake tough guy act, you're a winner!

21/6/4 as his team is rolling.  But a totally sane, not at all irrational poster is focusing on some dumbass narrative he's attached to like Gollum and the ring.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 17, 2022, 02:19:17 PM
21/6/4 as his team is rolling.  But a totally sane, not at all irrational poster is focusing on some dumbass narrative he's attached to like Gollum and the ring.

Glad he's having a good game.

If you had under 6.5 minutes into the Playoffs for Jimmy to pull out his fake tough guy act, you're a winner!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2022, 02:49:12 PM
Glad he's having a good game.

Are you, though?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 17, 2022, 03:05:11 PM
Butler’s a punk
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2022, 03:58:16 PM
What did he do?   I missed it.

https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young
 (https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young)

Withoutbias is with a lot of bias.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 04:38:11 PM
https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young
 (https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young)


Withoutbias is with a lot of bias.


Silly
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 04:39:30 PM
Say what you want about Kyrie but it's insane how skilled an offensive player he is. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2022, 04:41:05 PM
Say what you want about Kyrie but it's insane how skilled an offensive player he is.

Yep, might have some mental issues, but one of the top 5 basketball players in the league (well maybe top 7, tough call).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 04:45:54 PM
Yep, might have some mental issues, but one of the top 5 basketball players in the league (well maybe top 7, tough call).

I think he's only played like 25 games this year?   He's just a little talented.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 04:50:16 PM
I'm trying to figure out why Dragic is on the floor the closing 5 mins for Brooklyn. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 05:06:11 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2022, 05:07:46 PM
Crazy ending, brilliant pass/play by Smart...great finish by Tatum.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 05:13:34 PM
Van Gundy basically made the point that the Celtics will win this series if they can get away with the way they guarded Durant today.  I think he's right.  I also am nor sure about Nash's coaching. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2022, 05:16:11 PM
Very entertaining 4th quarter.

Tremendous defense by the Celtics on the final Brooklyn possession, taking the ball out of Irving's hands and forcing Durant to jack up a contested 27-footer.

Then, great decision by Udoka to not call time-out, preventing the Nets from setting their D.

Then, great offensive patience by Smart before delivering the assist as Tatum spun around Irving for the winning lay-up.

About the only bad thing in that sequence was Breen screaming (incorrectly) that the refs had waved off Tatum's basket. Breen later apologized for being confused when the refs went to check the clock to see if there was any time left after the hoop.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 17, 2022, 05:18:27 PM
Very entertaining 4th quarter.

Tremendous defense by the Celtics on the final Brooklyn possession, taking the ball out of Irving's hands and forcing Durant to jack up a contested 27-footer.

Then, great decision by Udoka to not call time-out, preventing the Nets from setting their D.

Then, great offensive patience by Smart before delivering the assist as Tatum spun around Irving for the winning lay-up.

About the only bad thing in that sequence was Breen screaming (incorrectly) that the refs had waved off Tatum's basket. Breen later apologized for being confused when the refs went to check the clock to see if there was any time left after the hoop.

I was wondering what that was about. It was clear it was out of his hand before the buzzer, and I didn't see any officials wave it off. Just trying to keep the court clear to ensure the game was indeed over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 05:35:57 PM
I was wondering what that was about. It was clear it was out of his hand before the buzzer, and I didn't see any officials wave it off. Just trying to keep the court clear to ensure the game was indeed over.

it's called bad announcing.  Everyone makes mistakes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 05:41:33 PM
I hope I'm wrong but I think giving up that #2 seed to Boston could really hurt the Bucks in a potential series.  I also think they match-up better vs Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 17, 2022, 05:47:50 PM
https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young
 (https://thespun.com/nba/miami-heat/look-things-get-heated-between-jimmy-butler-trae-young)

Withoutbias is with a lot of bias.

Wow, that was incredibly underwhelming. Completely nothing and Young instigated anything that happened.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
I was wondering what that was about. It was clear it was out of his hand before the buzzer, and I didn't see any officials wave it off. Just trying to keep the court clear to ensure the game was indeed over.

it's called bad announcing.  Everyone makes mistakes.

Breen's a good p-b-p guy. As Muggs said, he just made a mistake. But at the time, I was like, "Huh?" Because as forgetful said, it was obviously a good basket.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 05:56:07 PM
Breen's a good p-b-p guy. As Muggs said, he just made a mistake. But at the time, I was like, "Huh?" Because as forgetful said, it was obviously a good basket.

Yes.  For about 2 secs I doubted that it was an obvious bucket but then realized it was inconceivable that he didn't get that off before the buzzer. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 17, 2022, 06:57:14 PM
The Bulls aren't as bad as I thought they may be
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2022, 07:22:34 PM
Bucks just looked fantastic in the first quarter and have just played sloppy since then.  Not going to overreact since this is how the Bucks looked in a lot of game ones last year, but still...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 17, 2022, 07:37:06 PM
They look like chit, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 07:37:13 PM
The Bulls aren't as bad as I thought they may be

This is an ugly performance for the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 17, 2022, 07:42:05 PM
Maybe the bucks are just really serious about declining home court advantage.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 17, 2022, 07:46:34 PM
Maybe the bucks are just really serious about declining home court advantage.

LOL.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 17, 2022, 08:02:14 PM
Bulls made them battle.

Caruso is the NBA’s Brad Davison.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 17, 2022, 08:17:02 PM
That might be the best chance Northwestern Chicago has to steal one from Wisconsin Milwaukee
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 17, 2022, 10:35:59 PM
The Bucks have been awful under Bud in game ones. I’d expect a better performance on Wednesday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 17, 2022, 10:47:20 PM
The Bucks have been awful under Bud in game ones. I’d expect a better performance on Wednesday.

Yep. I think today makes them 3-8 in game ones since Bud took over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 18, 2022, 06:04:13 AM
I take it Kyrie did not get the tribute in Boston he was hoping for.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 18, 2022, 06:43:48 AM
Yep. I think today makes them 3-8 in game ones since Bud took over.

I’m not sure about the 3rd win, but it’s not like the last two have been all that convincing either. Yesterday and last year against Miami were pretty ugly wins.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 18, 2022, 06:57:01 AM
Doesn't matter. There's no selection committee to impress, no NET ranking to build.

As one of the many here who saw every playoff game during the Bulls' six title runs, they had many clunkers.

In their 1998 postseason opener, they needed OT to beat a barely-.500 New Jersey team, and they struggled in the next game too. The previous year, they scored 73 points in a Finals loss to Utah and played horribly in a home loss to Atlanta.

And hell, the Bucks lost their opener in 3 of their series last year. After losing the opener at Brooklyn, they then lost Game 2 by 805 points. Still won the series.

And this wasn't even a loss, so folks need to chill. There ain't no style points.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 18, 2022, 08:22:39 AM
I’m not sure about the 3rd win, but it’s not like the last two have been all that convincing either. Yesterday and last year against Miami were pretty ugly wins.

They blew out Detroit in Bud's first year.

My concern level remains at zero when it comes to this series. Wouldn't shock me to see the Bulls take one in Chicago, but I don't think this goes past 5 games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 18, 2022, 08:39:58 AM
Yep. I think today makes them 3-8 in game ones since Bud took over.

They for sure have 4 wins in game 1s of a series.  Off the top of my head...yesterday, Heat last year (sweep), Pistons Bud's first year (sweep), Raptors ECF (up 2-0, should've been up 3-0).  Losses were C's Bud's first year (win in 5), Magic in the Micky Mouse tournament (win in 5), Heat in the Micky Mouse tournament (lose in 5), Nets last year (win in 7), Hawks last year (win in 6), Suns last year (win in 6).

So I think 4-6?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 18, 2022, 08:59:07 AM
They for sure have 4 wins in game 1s of a series.  Off the top of my head...yesterday, Heat last year (sweep), Pistons Bud's first year (sweep), Raptors ECF (up 2-0, should've been up 3-0).  Losses were C's Bud's first year (win in 5), Magic in the Micky Mouse tournament (win in 5), Heat in the Micky Mouse tournament (lose in 5), Nets last year (win in 7), Hawks last year (win in 6), Suns last year (win in 6).

So I think 4-6?

Forgot about Toronto in the ECF, good catch.

18-19: 2-1
19-20: 0-2
20-21: 1-3
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 08:04:26 PM
So much for the Philly/Toronto series being competitive. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Nice to see Brunson lighting it up. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 09:15:03 PM
Nice to see Brunson lighting it up.

Doncic being out really changed that series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 09:22:20 PM
Doncic being out really changed that series.

Ya.  I missed how he injured himself but that's a real shame. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 09:27:45 PM
Would you take Jokic or Embiid?  I put Giannis on a higher tier.  Jokic is tremendously skilled for a man that large.  He's sort of like a bigger Duncan (offensively)  but with better ball skills and range.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 09:28:45 PM
Ya.  I missed how he injured himself but that's a real shame.

Up 16 in the 3rd quarter in a game largely playing for nothing. Similar injury to the one Durant had...then rushed back and tore his achilles.

An example of why the Bucks rested their starters the last game of the year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 09:41:33 PM
Up 16 in the 3rd quarter in a game largely playing for nothing. Similar injury to the one Durant had...then rushed back and tore his achilles.

An example of why the Bucks rested their starters the last game of the year.

Would be.a heck of a win if Dallas pulls this off. Maybe it's me but I think Jokic is cooler than Doncic. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 09:55:18 PM
Would be.a heck of a win if Dallas pulls this off. Maybe it's me but I think Jokic is cooler than Doncic.

Brunson with a 40 pt game.

Regarding Jokic and Doncic. Jokic is clearly the better player right now, but Doncic is actually a pretty good dude in general.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 10:01:29 PM
Monte Morris with an absolutely moronic technical.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 10:05:13 PM
Brunson with a 40 pt game.

Regarding Jokic and Doncic. Jokic is clearly the better player right now, but Doncic is actually a pretty good dude in general.

Doncic has the ball in his hands a lot more and can launch indiscriminately.  I like that Jokic basically doesn't force shots and let's the game come to him.  He's also a legit 7'0, 305.  Truthfully Denver doesn't have much with Murray out.  However, if Draymond Green was guarding me and I was Jokic I would pound him down low and drop 55-65 pts.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 10:11:53 PM
Doncic has the ball in his hands a lot more and can launch indiscriminately.  I like that Jokic basically doesn't force shots and let's the game come to him.  He's also a legit 7'0, 305.  Truthfully Denver doesn't have much with Murray out.  However, if Draymond Green was guarding me and I was Jokic I would pound him down low and drop 55-65 pts.  :)

You'd think he would do that, but Green holds his own, and there is nothing Denver can do to counter the Curry, Klay, Poole lineup.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 10:13:40 PM
Curry appears to be feeling okay.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 11:04:24 PM
If Poole plays anywhere near this way consistently look the H out.  I'm not sure how  you guard them.  I suppose I would try to play at a slower tempo and pound the paint but NBA teams don't do that. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 18, 2022, 11:07:47 PM
The most Sixers picture ever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 11:09:19 PM
If Poole plays anywhere near this way consistently look the H out.  I'm not sure how  you guard them.  I suppose I would try to play at a slower tempo and pound the paint but NBA teams don't do that.

Most exciting team to watch play, period. So unselfish, always deferring to the hot hand and making each other better.

Also, Curry +29. The roster with Wiggins, Green, Curry, Klay, Poole is just scary. If you can't exploit them inside, they will just torch you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 18, 2022, 11:09:53 PM
If Poole plays anywhere near this way consistently look the H out.  I'm not sure how  you guard them.  I suppose I would try to play at a slower tempo and pound the paint but NBA teams don't do that.

Poole is the perfect exhibit for what NBA teams look for in the draft. Averaged 9 points and 1 assist in college - but showed he had NBA type skills.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 11:15:13 PM
Most exciting team to watch play, period. So unselfish, always deferring to the hot hand and making each other better.

Also, Curry +29. The roster with Wiggins, Green, Curry, Klay, Poole is just scary. If you can't exploit them inside, they will just torch you.

Exactly.  If teams can't or won't exploit them inside you're basically fked.  What's really scary is Klay is starting to appear more comfortable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 18, 2022, 11:17:10 PM
Poole is the perfect exhibit for what NBA teams look for in the draft. Averaged 9 points and 1 assist in college - but showed he had NBA type skills.

It also helps if you can have him learn from probably the greatest shooter ever, and Klay.

You can see a little bit of Curry in his play style. There is an advantage to getting to learn from the greatest.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 18, 2022, 11:21:18 PM
It also helps if you can have him learn from probably the greatest shooter ever, and Klay.

You can see a little bit of Curry in his play style. There is an advantage to getting to learn from the greatest.

I've always been an advocate of zoomability with handles.  And when you add the mesh mincing from distance?  Poole is extremely dangerous and no joke.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2022, 09:45:28 AM
It also helps if you can have him learn from probably the greatest shooter ever, and Klay.

You can see a little bit of Curry in his play style. There is an advantage to getting to learn from the greatest.

I think what makes them terrifying is that Klay, Steph, and Poole all play a bit different.  Steph has unlimited range and absurd handles.  Klay is the spot up, one dribble sniper.  And Poole is insanely quick, great at the rim, and scores from all different levels.  And beyond that, Wiggins occasionally shows why he was the consensus #1 pick.  Its just a comedy of riches.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2022, 07:37:45 PM
Lowry got into a disagreement with Hunter, chest to chest jawing.  Butler didn't come over and punch Hunter in the face immediately.  What a fake tough guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 19, 2022, 08:02:52 PM
Jimmy is ballin tonight. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 19, 2022, 08:58:35 PM
45 for Butler.  Tremendous performance because no one else did much for Miami.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 19, 2022, 08:58:51 PM
Mr. Bias has to be absolutely unhinged watching Jimmy tonight.

What a game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on April 19, 2022, 09:05:47 PM
There is a reason he is called JFB!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 19, 2022, 09:08:54 PM
Mr. Bias has to be absolutely unhinged watching Jimmy tonight.

What a game.

Charles after the game “You want me to talk about Jimmy Butler? Jimmy F in Butler?”
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 19, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
Our 2009-10 Warriors squad was one of my favorites.  No one thought they could do didly squat but we had no ball stoppers and played small ball.  Little Mo had a tremendous season after leaving but then returning when Cadogan got hurt.  That was a very, very, cool group with all guards playing with Jimmy and Lazar.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 19, 2022, 09:28:27 PM
I don’t understand how Monty Williams got coach of the year over Taylor Jenkins.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 19, 2022, 09:36:12 PM
Jimmy went 45-5-5 with 0 turnovers and 0 fouls. Unreal

The Heat are the best 3 point shooting team in the league and they were cold tonight. Jimmy taking over was a blessing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2022, 10:05:04 PM
I don’t understand how Monty Williams got coach of the year over Taylor Jenkins.

The Grizz play 2 different ways.  One when Ja is in, and one when he's not.  And they are brilliant doing both.  He's incredible.

Jimmy went 45-5-5 with 0 turnovers and 0 fouls. Unreal

The Heat are the best 3 point shooting team in the league and they were cold tonight. Jimmy taking over was a blessing.

You could tell at the end of the first half.  He was dialed in and read to rock.

Speaking of dialed, Devin Booker is currently UNCONSCIOUS
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 19, 2022, 10:20:22 PM
The 2nd rd of the playoffs have the potential to be as good as we've seen for a long time.  Especially if Dallas beats Utah and Doncic is healthy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 19, 2022, 10:43:37 PM
Jimmy went 45-5-5 with 0 turnovers and 0 fouls. Unreal

That’s some fake tough guy stuff there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 19, 2022, 11:20:51 PM
Devin Booker injury if severe and out for extended time could be a playoff changer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 19, 2022, 11:28:23 PM
Devin Booker injury if severe and out for extended time could be a playoff changer.

No doubt.  I didn't see how it happened. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 20, 2022, 07:32:45 AM
From The Athletic:

Lakers legend Jerry West sent a letter to HBO and producer Adam McKay late Tuesday demanding a retraction and apology from the network over his portrayal in “Winning Time,” a drama series focused on the Lakers in the 1980s, when West was their general manager.

The show is based on Jeff Pearlman's book "Showtime: Magic, Kareem, Riley, and the Los Angeles Lakers Dynasty of the 1980s,” in which West is portrayed much differently than the show, West’s lawyers allege.

“The portrayal of NBA icon and LA Lakers legend Jerry West in ‘Winning Time’ is fiction pretending to be fact — a deliberately false characterization that has caused great distress to Jerry and his family,” one of West’s attorneys said.

Former Lakers Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Cooper, Mitch Kupchak and Michael Cooper, among others, co-signed the letter in support of West.

Interesting minutiae: West’s lawyers also say HBO’s disclaimer about the show being a dramatization does not insulate the network legally.


I watched the first episode. It was mildly entertaining but I had trouble getting past the fact that the players and other well-known figures didn't look very much like the very famous people they were supposed to be. And 15 seconds into the first time West was on the screen, I said, "That is not how Jerry West acted in real life, not even close."

I'm not sure West will get what he wants from HBO, but that was really bad IMHO.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 20, 2022, 07:53:13 AM
Did the Lakers want his contributions to be minimized out of a grudge or something?  Because West has a sterling reputation and everyone knows was a great deal responsible for not only the Showtime Lakers, but the Kobe & Shaq Lakers of the late 90s.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 20, 2022, 09:14:04 AM
Did the Lakers want his contributions to be minimized out of a grudge or something?  Because West has a sterling reputation and everyone knows was a great deal responsible for not only the Showtime Lakers, but the Kobe & Shaq Lakers of the late 90s.

I don't know enough of the backstory behind the making of the series. What I do know is that West was not an angry, foul-mouthed drunk.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 20, 2022, 09:22:13 AM
I don't know enough of the backstory behind the making of the series. What I do know is that West was not an angry, foul-mouthed drunk.

Oh for God sakes no. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Golden Avalanche on April 20, 2022, 09:52:43 AM
Winning Time is serialized off of Jeff Pearlman's book "Showtime".

It has been years in the making and the moment McKay (EP) took more of the creative reins and went with John C. Reilly instead of Will Ferrell for Jerry Buss people around the project commented that it would be heavily dramatized and not a literal representation.

McKay has had a hand in a $hit ton of projects that have been immensely popular this last decade.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 20, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
Did the Lakers want his contributions to be minimized out of a grudge or something?  Because West has a sterling reputation and everyone knows was a great deal responsible for not only the Showtime Lakers, but the Kobe & Shaq Lakers of the late 90s.

I believe the West/Lakers relationship is pretty heated. I don’t know if it stemmed from him going to the Clippers or not. Some quick Googling shows he wanted to come back in 2017 and the Lakers wouldn’t bring him back.

I don’t believe he has any real involvement with the Lakers anymore.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 20, 2022, 10:21:47 AM
I haven’t read Pearlman’s book. But from what I’ve read about this whole kerfuffle, the book did not portray West as a basketball version of Frank Gallagher.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 20, 2022, 11:40:12 AM
I haven’t read Pearlman’s book. But from what I’ve read about this whole kerfuffle, the book did not portray West as a basketball version of Frank Gallagher.

That is an incredible comparison
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 08:02:27 PM
Boston gets away with a lot of garbage defensively.  Just sayin.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 20, 2022, 08:45:51 PM
Man Nash was a little too hands off in that fourth quarter.  No timeouts to even slow the Cs down when they had a number of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2022, 08:48:11 PM
Man Nash was a little too hands off in that fourth quarter.  No timeouts to even slow the Cs down when they had a number of them.

The nets went almost 10 minutes only scoring 4 points. Insane. Coach needs to do more in that situation.

Also, Pritchard lit them up, while looking like a guy better suited to playing driveway basketball at a Scoop meat summit than an NBA playoff game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 08:50:41 PM
Now you know why I thought the Bucks shouldn't have thrown away the #2 seed. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 20, 2022, 08:54:49 PM
Now you know why I thought the Bucks shouldn't have thrown away the #2 seed. 

I do?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 08:57:51 PM
The Bucks are not ready to play at all
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 09:47:46 PM
What a shot by Embiid. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 20, 2022, 09:50:51 PM
The Bucks look tired and slow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 09:51:43 PM
The Bucks look tired and slow.

No defense at all and Middleton is lost for some reason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 20, 2022, 09:52:38 PM
What a shot by Embiid. 

Doc put them in a position to win. What a way to end overtime.

Precious had a great game. He's raw but fun to watch
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 09:55:28 PM
Now you know why I thought the Bucks shouldn't have thrown away the #2 seed.

What? They’d be down 2-0 to BKN with two 30 point losses they way they’ve played.

This is embarrassing basketball
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 09:59:40 PM
What? They’d be down 2-0 to BKN with two 30 point losses they way they’ve played.

This is embarrassing basketball

Fair point.  They have played poorly to put it mildly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 10:00:28 PM
Fair point.  They have played poorly to put it mildly.

I think Chicago will cool off a bit but the Bucks offense has looked awful even when they’ve scored.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 10:04:08 PM
I think Chicago will cool off a bit but the Bucks offense has looked awful even when they’ve scored.

Isn't their defense worse?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 20, 2022, 10:07:49 PM
The Bucks look tired and slow.

Which is nuts considering the time off the regulars had.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 10:48:28 PM
Game over.  The Bucks appear to have significant probs.  Very discombobulated on both ends of the floor.  Great performance by DeRozan. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 20, 2022, 10:58:52 PM
Now Middleton heads to the locker room.

Bucks might not win another game in this series if he's really hurt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 11:00:17 PM
Now Middleton heads to the locker room.

Bucks might not win another game in this series if he's really hurt.

Inexplicable that it took them this long but it looks like they finally found the playoff intensity. Hopefully KM is okay.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 11:04:03 PM
What happened to Portis?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 20, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
What happened to Portis?

Probably a scratched cornea
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 20, 2022, 11:15:08 PM
The missed layup, and missed open 3 by Holiday really hurt.

Then it was like watching MU play this year with the failure to grab a rebound.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 11:20:10 PM
Caruso was huge tonight for the Bulls. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 20, 2022, 11:21:32 PM
Gahhhhh, Bulls probably have a chance in this series if Lonzo is playing.

Oh well, avoided the sweep. I amend my prediction from Bucks in 4 to Bucks in 6.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on April 20, 2022, 11:22:53 PM
Gahhhhh, Bulls probably have a chance in this series if Lonzo is playing.

They have a real chance now. Especially if Middleton is out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2022, 11:23:27 PM
Middleton being hurt might help the Bucks win this series. He’s been absolutely terrible down the stretch of the season.

The charge needs to go in all levels of basketball. Players are rewarded for flopping all over the place. Trash basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 20, 2022, 11:30:04 PM
Middleton being hurt might help the Bucks win this series. He’s been absolutely terrible down the stretch of the season.

The charge needs to go in all levels of basketball. Players are rewarded for flopping all over the place. Trash basketball.

Good or bad though, without Middleton not on the floor though you can commit two defenders to Giannis no matter what.

And if Portis misses time as well, you don’t have to worry about him crashing the boards.

Still think Milwaukee wins 3 of the next 4 in either case.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on April 20, 2022, 11:32:30 PM
Middleton being hurt might help the Bucks win this series. He’s been absolutely terrible down the stretch of the season.

The charge needs to go in all levels of basketball. Players are rewarded for flopping all over the place. Trash basketball.

Absolutely not, terrible take
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 20, 2022, 11:37:48 PM
Absolutely not, terrible take

He has more turnovers than made field goals in the series. The Bucks made their run after he left the game, just like they did after he got ejected from the Brooklyn game.

Good or bad though, without Middleton not on the floor though you can commit two defenders to Giannis no matter what.

And if Portis misses time as well, you don’t have to worry about him crashing the boards.

Still think Milwaukee wins 3 of the next 4 in either case.

The Bulls are collapsing 4 on Giannis anyways, with or without Middleton. They’re daring anyone but Giannis to beat them, and the only one who can is Brook. And they know Bud won’t give Brook enough touches/ minutes to beat them.

The Bucks will win the series, but they are not title contenders. Far worse this year than they were last year. In large part because Middleton isn’t close to what he was last year and their offensive rebounding isn’t nearly as good.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 11:39:17 PM
I think the Bucks win the next three. They figured out Chicago’s defense in the 2nd half. It took a Middleton injury and Lavine, NV and Derozan all being efficient at high volume to win that game.

Bulls can steal one more with the same formula. Keep shooting a high volume of threes at a high percentage and Derozan hitting tough shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 11:40:18 PM
He has more turnovers than made field goals in the series. The Bucks made their run after he left the game, just like they did after he got ejected from the Brooklyn game.

The Bulls are collapsing 4 on Giannis anyways, with or without Middleton. They’re daring anyone but Giannis to beat them, and the only one who can is Brook. And they know Bud won’t give Brook enough touches/ minutes to beat them.

The Bucks will win the series, but they are not title contenders. Far worse this year than they were last year. In large part because Middleton isn’t close to what he was last year and their offensive rebounding isn’t nearly as good.

Well, they made a run after Middleton got hurt. They made the first run with him leading it and cut it from 18 to 3.

I agree they aren’t title contenders unless he is healthy and gets hot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 20, 2022, 11:44:24 PM
Well, they made a run after Middleton got hurt. They made the first run with him leading it and cut it from 18 to 3.

I agree they aren’t title contenders unless he is healthy and gets hot.

I think they have some defensive issues that the Bulls exploited. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on April 20, 2022, 11:52:42 PM
He has more turnovers than made field goals in the series. The Bucks made their run after he left the game, just like they did after he got ejected from the Brooklyn game.

Sprained MCL, so you might get your wish of him not playing
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 20, 2022, 11:53:05 PM
MCL sprain for Middleton. This series just got a lot closer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on April 20, 2022, 11:54:36 PM
MCL sprain for Middleton. This series just got a lot closer.

Not according to wades
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 11:55:41 PM
Bucks will be fine this series. Beyond that? Doubtful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 12:10:48 AM
Bucks will be fine this series. Beyond that? Doubtful.

I'm not so sure they'll be fine.  Probably Bucks in 7.  No chance if he can't go if they get by the Bulls. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 21, 2022, 05:20:33 AM
The Bucks win if Aaron Rodgers isn’t there. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 21, 2022, 06:20:56 AM
Bucks look lethargic and old. Game 3 is critical. Get their asses handed to 'em and it could be Bulls in 5. Peddle their asses, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 21, 2022, 09:43:36 AM
If they don't make the Finals, they may as well lose in the first round.  The season going into July last year plus JH and KM playing in the Olympics made for a long year.  Get some rest and figure out next year.

^^^^--Pre-emptive rationalization.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2022, 11:40:09 AM
Fire and trade everybody.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on April 21, 2022, 12:41:43 PM
Middleton out 3-4 weeks, Booker out 2-3 weeks
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 21, 2022, 01:23:11 PM
Middleton out 3-4 weeks, Booker out 2-3 weeks

I'm sure he has some decent sources, but is Melendez reliable? I haven't seen the Middleton news reported elsewhere.

Guess I need to hedge my Bucks -2.5 games bet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 21, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
I'm sure he has some decent sources, but is Melendez reliable? I haven't seen the Middleton news reported elsewhere.

Guess I need to hedge my Bucks -2.5 games bet.

He's pretty plugged in, and from my recollection, not prone to being a rumor monger, probably given his on-air background.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 21, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
He's pretty plugged in, and from my recollection, not prone to being a rumor monger, probably given his on-air background.

Thanks. I'm sure we'll get the confirmation from the national guys later today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 21, 2022, 01:58:20 PM
He's pretty plugged in, and from my recollection, not prone to being a rumor monger, probably given his on-air background.

His wife is Jen Lada (the failed luncheon hostess) and I would imagine she’s pretty plugged in too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 21, 2022, 04:05:39 PM
His wife is Jen Lada (the failed luncheon hostess) and I would imagine she’s pretty plugged in too.

She’s need to dump that anchor and get a scoop hero
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BrewCity83 on April 21, 2022, 04:06:23 PM
She’s need to dump that anchor and get a scoop hero

+1000    8-)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 09:03:40 PM
I believe the Timbywolves blew two 20 point leads in the first and 2nd half to lose this game to Memphis.  That's not easy to do.  Until the last 10 secs of the game they were outscored 37-9 in the 4Q.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2022, 09:06:26 PM
I believe the Timbywolves blew two 20 point leads in the first and 2nd half to lose this game to Memphis.  That's not easy to do.  Until the last 10 secs of the game they were outscored 37-9 in the 4Q.

I missed the comeback. Turned it off figuring it was over to watch the Mavs. Was shocked when I saw the score and Memphis was suddenly winning.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 09:21:15 PM
Perhaps the comparison between Donovan Mitchell and D. Wade should cease being made. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 10:05:01 PM
Uhhh.....this GSW team is freaking scary.  Poole continues to be Curryesque.  That's a huge problem for the rest of the league.  They have three ultra-elite shooters and another 3/4 guys that can knock them down. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 10:35:45 PM
Another tremendous performance by Brunson.  I said at the time that it was silly he wasn't a 1st round pk.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2022, 10:48:08 PM
Another tremendous performance by Brunson.  I said at the time that it was silly he wasn't a 1st round pk.

I believe you, Muggs. I loved Brunson at Nova and was certain he was an NBA player. The fact that Gillespie reminds me of Brunson is one reason I think Gillespie's got a chance. Not as certain about him, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 11:08:42 PM
I believe you, Muggs. I loved Brunson at Nova and was certain he was an NBA player. The fact that Gillespie reminds me of Brunson is one reason I think Gillespie's got a chance. Not as certain about him, though.

I thought is was a joke that Di Vincenzo was taken ahead of him and a bigger joke that Spellman was as well.  Now, I did think Bridges was the better NBA prospect but the idea that Brunson "could possibly be a solid back-up PG" was just ridiculous to me.  The scouts grossly underestimated his overall skill set.  He was never slow,.  He played under control. and ran Wright's system. 

As for Gillespie? I think he’ll make it.  However, Brunson is considerably stronger, quicker, and changes direction more fluidly.  Gillespie could struggle defensively early in his career.  If you look at the 2018 draft it's pretty incredible the guys taken ahead of Brunson.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
What the NBA allows defenders to do to Curry is criminal. He is held, pushed, held, grabbed...more than any other player, non-stop.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
What the NBA allows defenders to do to Curry is criminal. He is held, pushed, held, grabbed...more than any other player, non-stop.

100%.  And yet he still dropped 34 in 23 mins and another 27 tonight.   :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 22, 2022, 12:22:59 PM
I believe the Timbywolves blew two 20 point leads in the first and 2nd half to lose this game to Memphis.  That's not easy to do.  Until the last 10 secs of the game they were outscored 37-9 in the 4Q.

We know cowardly Mr. Bias will spin it on Jimmy.

But there is no doubt that KAT is the frailest softest whiniest player in the league.

Anyone who thinks JFB was at fault for getting as far as he could away from that scrub needs their head examined.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 22, 2022, 01:18:17 PM
We know cowardly Mr. Bias will spin it on Jimmy.

But there is no doubt that KAT is the frailest softest whiniest player in the league.

Anyone who thinks JFB was at fault for getting as far as he could away from that scrub needs their head examined.

Did you see the mic'd up from when they were leading early?  It aged like milk in the sun.

The Wolves need a veteran PG not named Patrick Beverly.  I can't believe they gave him an extension.  With KAT (however you feel about him), Edwards, Beasley, they need a PG who can control the game.  Maybe they move Russell, but his contract is a nightmare.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 22, 2022, 03:08:35 PM
Hornets fired their coach. It was a bit of surprise, because they just extended him last offseason and the team just had its first winning record in several years. But they were blown out each of the last two play-in tournaments, so whatever.

As great as he was as a player, Jordan has failed both as an NBA executive and NBA owner.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 22, 2022, 08:09:21 PM
The Bucks finally decided to show up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 22, 2022, 08:15:02 PM
The Bucks finally decided to show up.

This felt inevitable.  Bucks lose Game 2, lose Middleton.  Murmurs of "oh man, Bulls have a shot"...then they come out and pound them in Chicago in Game 3
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on April 22, 2022, 08:15:31 PM
Making shots helps
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 08:24:47 PM
The game is long from over.  Caruso is keeping the Bulls alive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 08:27:03 PM
That charge on Giannis?  LOL.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 22, 2022, 08:28:40 PM
Middleton being hurt might help the Bucks win this series. He’s been absolutely terrible down the stretch of the season.

The charge needs to go in all levels of basketball. Players are rewarded for flopping all over the place. Trash basketball.

👀

The Bucks will need last year’s Middleton to repeat. But they’re better without the version that they’ve had for a good portion of the second half of this season. Especially the first two games of the series.

Also, players are being incentivized for flopping and just falling over. It’s straight trash basketball. It’s getting more and more like soccer and that’s not good.

Making getting shots helps

FIFY. The turnovers are why it had been a series. Not only can you not get a shot attempt, but your offense also suffers with your turnovers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 22, 2022, 09:12:11 PM
Until Pat hits a shot, Grayson needs every second of his playing time if Khris returns. Hilarious seeing him go off in Chicago. He’s a very good offensive player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 09:20:13 PM
Jimmy for the win?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 09:21:14 PM
Yikes.  That was awful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 22, 2022, 09:39:57 PM
I, for one, will be upset if Bobby ever drops the specs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 11:29:45 PM
Pretty amazing that Chris Paul is about to turn 37. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 23, 2022, 06:17:15 PM
Wow. Playoffs are fun.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 07:29:09 PM
Brooklyn looks like they're about to get swept. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 08:48:24 PM
I do?

You do now.  Terrible decision by the Bucks.  They bought a silly media narrative and threw away home court to a very good team. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 08:56:37 PM
You do now.  Terrible decision by the Bucks.  They bought a silly media narrative and threw away home court to a very good team. 

No I don’t. And LOL at a professional basketball team buying into a “silly media narrative.” 

It’s an experienced basketball team that is confident of their ability to win games on the road. Like a lot of teams do.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 23, 2022, 08:56:53 PM
You do now.  Terrible decision by the Bucks.  They bought a silly media narrative and threw away home court to a very good team.

I'll be honest, I don't think it'll make a difference. Boston is the better team and I don't like how the Bucks matchup, especially with Middleton out on defense. I get you try to gain whatever advantage you can, and home court is that, but I just don't see it mattering as I'm not sure that series will go 7
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 08:59:59 PM
I'll be honest, I don't think it'll make a difference. Boston is the better team and I don't like how the Bucks matchup, especially with Middleton out on defense. I get you try to gain whatever advantage you can, and home court is that, but I just don't see it mattering as I'm not sure that series will go 7

I kinda think you are right. But even if it goes seven, that doesn’t mean it was a bad decision.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 09:00:32 PM
I'll be honest, I don't think it'll make a difference. Boston is the better team and I don't like how the Bucks matchup, especially with Middleton out on defense. I get you try to gain whatever advantage you can, and home court is that, but I just don't see it mattering as I'm not sure that series will go 7

You're probably right but it helps to have home court.  It was a very poor decision regardless if Fluffy refuses to admit it
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 09:04:54 PM
Mugs.

Why would I admit it was a stupid decision when there is zero evidence to think it was a poor one?  Just cause you breathlessly post about something doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 09:05:39 PM
I kinda think you are right. But even if it goes seven, that doesn’t mean it was a bad decision.

Yes it does.  You are clearly in denial.  And the biggest reason why it was a poor decision is that Brooklyn doesn't defend and hasn't all season.  Boston on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams.  The Bucks got duped and apparently you did as well Fluffy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 23, 2022, 09:08:14 PM
Maybe the Bucks figured they suck in game ones anyway. If it's on the road, it's house money
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 09:13:18 PM
Yes it does.  You are clearly in denial.  And the biggest reason why it was a poor decision is that Brooklyn doesn't defend and hasn't all season.  Boston on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams.  The Bucks got duped and apparently you did as well Fluffy.

Duped by whom?  This is just so silly. An NBA team with a history of winning tough games on the road was duped. But you saw through it right?

Take a Valium and calm down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 09:15:27 PM
Maybe the Bucks figured they suck in game ones anyway. If it's on the road, it's house money

Ha!  I will say your explanation makes much more sense than Fluffy's rationalizations.  The bottom line is inexplicably Brooklyn was favored in this series and they are now down 3-0. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 09:18:40 PM
Ha!  I will say your explanation makes much more sense than Fluffy's rationalizations.  The bottom line is inexplicably Brooklyn was favored in his series and they are now down 3-0. 

Lol. Says the guy who claims the Bucks got “duped” by a “silly media narrative.” 

The Bucks were resting their guys regardless. They didn’t care about being the second or third seed. We will see how f it was a bad decision but there is zero reason to suggest it was right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 09:20:05 PM
Lol. Says the guy who claims the Bucks got “duped” by a “silly media narrative.” 

The Bucks were resting their guys regardless. They didn’t care about being the second or third seed. We will see how f it was a bad decision but there is zero reason to suggest it was right now.

We'll agree to disagree.  But I'm surprised that you have ignored reality. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 23, 2022, 09:21:49 PM
We'll agree to disagree.  Buy I'm surprised that you have ignored reality. 


What reality? They haven’t played a game yet. Hell neither team has won their first round series yet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 23, 2022, 09:31:26 PM

What reality? They haven’t played a game yet. Hell neither team has won their first round series yet.

Fair enough.  I'll accept your semi-rebuttal for closure purposes. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 23, 2022, 10:02:54 PM
Yes it does.  You are clearly in denial.  And the biggest reason why it was a poor decision is that Brooklyn doesn't defend and hasn't all season.  Boston on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams.  The Bucks got duped and apparently you did as well Fluffy.

So you think the Bucks are run by idiots? They are the reigning NBA champs. They weren't duped and they are not afraid to play a game 7 on the road.

Listen to what Fluff says and you might learn something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 23, 2022, 11:47:44 PM
KAT’s dad and Ja’s dad sitting next to each other is so awesome.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2022, 07:08:50 AM
Yes it does.  You are clearly in denial.  And the biggest reason why it was a poor decision is that Brooklyn doesn't defend and hasn't all season.  Boston on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams.  The Bucks got duped and apparently you did as well Fluffy.

If you think the Bucks got “duped” by the media, that they based their late season decisions on media narratives is something
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 24, 2022, 08:58:35 AM
I think it's more probable that the Bucks were uncertain what the Celts would look like without Robert Williams. I'm sure they expected and/or hoped the two teams would beat the crap out of each other in a longer series, but would be comfortable facing either team.

Obviously has not panned out, but it was a worthwhile gambit

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 11:40:40 AM
Again, I hope most of you are a correct and I'm dead wrong but I do think the Bucks made a significant mistake.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 24, 2022, 11:42:35 AM
Should we presume Golden State to be the favorite to win the title?

A top 20 all-time player, another near lock for the HoF (Green), another guy with a solid shot for the Hall (Klay), plus one of the most electric young players in the league.

Add in one of the best coaches and they look like a champion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 11:55:12 AM
Should we presume Golden State to be the favorite to win the title?

A top 20 all-time player, another near lock for the HoF (Green), another guy with a solid shot for the Hall (Klay), plus one of the most electric young players in the league.

Add in one of the best coaches and they look like a champion.

Yes.  I think most would predict Warriors/Celtics in the Finals at this point. 

Golden State could conceivably roll through the West if Poole continues to put up these numbers. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 24, 2022, 12:21:55 PM
Yes.  I think most would predict Warriors/Celtics in the Finals at this point. 

Golden State could conceivably roll through the West if Poole continues to put up these numbers.

Assuming Booker gets healthy the Suns are going to the finals.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 01:00:01 PM
Running under an offensive player and falling over is such trash basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 24, 2022, 01:09:51 PM
Running under an offensive player and falling over is such trash basketball.

For such an elite turnaround jumpshooter, Demar sure has terrible balance today
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Agreed.

Great half for Grayson Allen.

I will say that Giannis has to avoid these cheap offensive fouls.  I don't know how many he has for the season but seemingly he gets 2 a game when I have watched.  I also don't really get why he sometimes is taking the ball 94 feet.  Get him in the wide post. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 01:45:50 PM
The MVP chants when DeRozan is at the line has me dying. 😂
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 01:47:39 PM
Did you see that?  Not close to goaltending by Giannis.  Isn't that reviewable? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 01:49:47 PM
Did you see that?  Not close to goaltending by Giannis.  Isn't that reviewable?

It is, but it saves you 1 point and you use your only challenge so not worth it. Save if for the fourth so if the game tightens up you have it in your pocket. Someone on the Bulls will inevitably fall over on Giannis and get a call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 01:52:27 PM
It is, but it saves you 1 point and you use your only challenge so not worth it. Save if for the fourth so if the game tightens up you have it in your pocket. Someone on the Bulls will inevitably fall over on Giannis and get a call.

I thought goaltending was reviewable without using a challenge but I guess I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 24, 2022, 01:53:12 PM
Should we presume Golden State to be the favorite to win the title?

A top 20 all-time player, another near lock for the HoF (Green), another guy with a solid shot for the Hall (Klay), plus one of the most electric young players in the league.

Add in one of the best coaches and they look like a champion.

Is Draymond really a near-lock for the HOF? I thought he was a Hall of Very Good guy playing with a bunch of studs.

I assumed Brooklyn was going to put up a better fight. I still think a path of Chicago/Boston on the road is better than Brooklyn/Boston at home.

The Bucks Game 1 woes are looking more like a trend. So not having home court doesn’t worry me as much as I assume an 0-1 start against good teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 01:55:45 PM
I thought goaltending was reviewable without using a challenge but I guess I'm wrong.

Not sure.

Players are better off playing offensive lineman when screening (Bam Adebayo) than attempting to set an actual screen in the NBA.

Love what Grayson is doing in Chicago.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
Horrible turn there by Carter. 

Imagine how cool it would be to be as good as Jrue Holiday?  The guy is incredibly talented.  Does basically everything .
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 02:01:12 PM
Is Draymond really a near-lock for the HOF? I thought he was a Hall of Very Good guy playing with a bunch of studs.

I assumed Brooklyn was going to put up a better fight. I still think a path of Chicago/Boston on the road is better than Brooklyn/Boston at home.

Green is widely considered to be the Rodman or best overall defensive player in this era.  Whether that's accurate or not I don't know but it helps a lot that he has played for that team and system.

The Bucks Game 1 woes are looking more like a trend. So not having home court doesn’t worry me as much as I assume an 0-1 start against good teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 02:16:04 PM
Middleton being hurt might help the Bucks win this series. He’s been absolutely terrible down the stretch of the season.

The charge needs to go in all levels of basketball. Players are rewarded for flopping all over the place. Trash basketball.

👀👀
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 24, 2022, 02:16:12 PM
Mugs backing off less than 12 hours later.  😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 02:19:10 PM
Mugs backing off less than 12 hours later.  😂😂😂😂

I'm not backing off.  I'd just like to be able to torch people like Holiday in my pick-up games.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 02:22:33 PM
👀👀

They need Middleton vs Boston.  But it did open up an opportunity for Allen.  The spot three can be created by Giannis at will.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 24, 2022, 02:57:15 PM
Should we presume Golden State to be the favorite to win the title?

A top 20 all-time player, another near lock for the HoF (Green), another guy with a solid shot for the Hall (Klay), plus one of the most electric young players in the league.

Add in one of the best coaches and they look like a champion.

Golden State is a contender but I wouldn't call them the favorite.  They're a jump shooting team, so they tend to go in streaks.  When everyone is on, they look great.

They could just as easily go cold in the next round.  Even Curry and Thompson go through cold stretches.  It's how they fell behind OKC 3-1 when GS won 73 games.  It's also how they blew a 3-1 lead to the Cavs that same year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 24, 2022, 03:03:54 PM
I'm not backing off.  I'd just like to be able to torch people like Holiday in my pick-up games.  :)

🤡🤡🤡
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2022, 03:44:38 PM
Some of the takes after the Bucks lost Game 2 haven't aged very well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 24, 2022, 04:15:41 PM
Ben Simmons to miss his 2nd consecutive elimination game
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 04:29:56 PM
Some of the takes after the Bucks lost Game 2 haven't aged very well.

Perhaps but no one expected the Bulls to win this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Johnny B on April 24, 2022, 04:52:48 PM
They wont get by the celtics without middleton,
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 24, 2022, 05:31:27 PM
Interesting that the Nuggets took out their MVP for the most important defensive possession of their season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2022, 06:27:52 PM
Interesting that the Nuggets took out their MVP for the most important defensive possession of their season.

Smart, just like when all-time great coach Phil Jackson occasionally would take out Shaq because the coach didn't want his MVP to have to go to the FT line with the game on the line.

Nuggets got the stop with Jokic out. Then Malone put him back in and Jokic made the great pass for Bynum's clinching 3. Good coaching.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 07:52:49 PM
Jimmy is ballin again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 07:54:00 PM
Jokic’s advanced defensive numbers are actually really good this year. The Warriors are the worst matchup for him defensively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 08:19:59 PM
Miami or Philadelphia?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 08:41:36 PM
36, 10, 4, 4, 1 and zero turns for JamesBuckets. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2022, 09:18:31 PM
36, 10, 4, 4, 1 and zero turns for JamesBuckets.

Jimmy totally took over that game. It was a very impressive performance by an all-time great Marquette NBAer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 24, 2022, 10:08:10 PM
Jimmy totally took over that game. It was a very impressive performance by an all-time great Marquette NBAer.

Absolutely.  And considering the performances of the rest of the Miami team it's even better than the pure stats.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 25, 2022, 08:27:23 PM
I don’t know if Nash survives this.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 25, 2022, 08:28:47 PM
No great loss if he doesn't. As a head coach, Nash makes a good point guard, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 25, 2022, 08:34:55 PM
I don’t know if Nash survives this.

Probably not.   A lot of their issues wasn't his fault but I'm also not sold on him.  Brooklyn frankly was smoke and mirrors despite Durant and Kyrie's talent. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 25, 2022, 08:48:08 PM
How in the world is Toronto up 11 in Philly late in the 3rd?  VanVleet is out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 25, 2022, 10:30:00 PM
Not exactly an impressive performance from Utah or Donavan Mitchell.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 26, 2022, 12:55:17 AM
I don’t know if Nash survives this.


Not all his fault, but he was exposed against Boston.

On the other hand, as I have said here before, Kyrie ain't winning any titles. But then I also doubt KD ever wins a title as the lead dog.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 26, 2022, 06:03:30 AM

Not all his fault, but he was exposed against Boston.

On the other hand, as I have said here before, Kyrie ain't winning any titles. But then I also doubt KD ever wins a title as the lead dog.

Kyrie has already won a title. And KD was (by a decent margin) the best player on the GSW teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 26, 2022, 07:26:27 AM
How in the world is Toronto up 11 in Philly late in the 3rd?  VanVleet is out.

Doc is doing Doc things.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 26, 2022, 07:27:14 AM
Jimmy totally took over that game. It was a very impressive performance by an all-time great Marquette NBAer.

Marquette Tweet: In a League of His Own (https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1518623222199115776?s=20&t=N5i6V-TKUBb5QH9Mx-69_w).


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRMhivkUcAAKc02?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 07:57:39 AM
Doc is doing Doc things.

That's a really bad loss.  Imagine the pressure iif Torotno pushes this to 7?  Is Doc just that bad?  I've noticed that Harden has been abysmal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 26, 2022, 08:01:33 AM
That's a really bad loss.  Imagine the pressure iif Torotno pushes this to 7?  Is Doc just that bad?  I've noticed that Harden has been abysmal.
Embiid kind of called Doc out, sayings its Doc's job to have Harden shoot more. Just what Philly needs, more Harden dribbling for 22 seconds and jacking up a three.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 26, 2022, 08:07:01 AM
That's a really bad loss.  Imagine the pressure iif Torotno pushes this to 7?  Is Doc just that bad?  I've noticed that Harden has been abysmal.

IMO Doc is a great locker room guy. He has wonderful relationships with his players. So I think his regular seasons go generally well.  But I think he struggles with adjustments over the course of a playoff series.

His only title came with Tibs on his bench and three eventual Hall of Famers on a loaded team.  So I don't think he is bad, I just think he is overrated. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on April 26, 2022, 08:09:21 AM
He is rated fairly.   Good.   Not an all-timer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 08:10:46 AM
Embiid kind of called Doc out, sayings its Doc's job to have Harden shoot more. Just what Philly needs, more Harden dribbling for 22 seconds and jacking up a three.

LOL.  I have no confidence they're beating Miami assuming they get by Toronto.  Spo can coach.  Harden still thinks Giannis "is a 7 footer who only dunks".  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 08:12:20 AM
He is rated fairly.   Good.   Not an all-timer.

He will be rated less fairly if he blows this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 26, 2022, 08:17:14 AM
He is rated fairly.   Good.   Not an all-timer.

OK. I think his reputation is more than simply "good," but I might be wrong on that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on April 26, 2022, 08:22:19 AM
He will be rated less fairly if he blows this series.

His track record will insulate his legacy against the possible losing of this series.


Bill Fitch is in the HOF.   He had a losing record for his career.     Doc will be fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2022, 09:12:14 AM
My monthly poker game was last night and the NBA games were on in the background. When they showed the Phil-Tor score, one of the guys said, "Doc Rivers has proven time and again that he can't win in the playoffs." (They all know I'm a Marquette grad, obviously.)

I responded, "Oh, you mean former NBA Championship-Winning Coach Glenn 'Doc' Rivers can't win in the playoffs?"

To which he said: "Come on, man, he never won a championship."

I had to remind him that Rivers was the coach of the Garnett-Pierce-Allen Celtics team that won the 2008 title, and he still didn't believe it until he googled it.

The guy is more than a casual NBA fan but isn't a superfan. He just forgot Rivers coached that team, and he reflected what might be the general POV out there about Rivers.

I always root for Rivers, a great guy and a proud MU alum.


Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 26, 2022, 09:17:24 AM
My monthly poker game was last night and the NBA games were on in the background. When they showed the Phil-Tor score, one of the guys said, "Doc Rivers has proven time and again that he can't win in the playoffs." (They all know I'm a Marquette grad, obviously.)

I responded, "Oh, you mean former NBA Championship-Winning Coach Glenn 'Doc' Rivers can't win in the playoffs?"

To which he said: "Come on, man, he never won a championship."

I had to remind him that Rivers was the coach of the Garnett-Pierce-Allen Celtics team that won the 2008 title, and he still didn't believe it until he googled it.

The guy is more than a casual NBA fan but isn't a superfan. He just forgot Rivers coached that team, and he reflected what might be the general POV out there about Rivers.

I always root for Rivers, a great guy and a proud MU alum.
TL:DR. MU82 plays poker with the cast of Cocoon
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2022, 09:22:57 AM
TL:DR. MU82 plays poker with the cast of Cocoon

FWIW ... a couple guys in their 30s, but mostly late-50s and early-60s. Nobody over 63, though not sure how it would matter to this discussion if there were.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 26, 2022, 09:37:26 AM
Embiid's thumb is obviously in bad shape. The Sixers aren't dangerous without him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 26, 2022, 09:44:04 AM
My monthly poker game was last night and the NBA games were on in the background. When they showed the Phil-Tor score, one of the guys said, "Doc Rivers has proven time and again that he can't win in the playoffs." (They all know I'm a Marquette grad, obviously.)

I responded, "Oh, you mean former NBA Championship-Winning Coach Glenn 'Doc' Rivers can't win in the playoffs?"

To which he said: "Come on, man, he never won a championship."

I had to remind him that Rivers was the coach of the Garnett-Pierce-Allen Celtics team that won the 2008 title, and he still didn't believe it until he googled it.

The guy is more than a casual NBA fan but isn't a superfan. He just forgot Rivers coached that team, and he reflected what might be the general POV out there about Rivers.

I always root for Rivers, a great guy and a proud MU alum.


#52 would love to opine on that premise, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: YaBlueIt on April 26, 2022, 09:53:50 AM
He is rated fairly.   Good.   Not an all-timer.

Depends on who is doing the rating I suppose. The NBA named him as one of the top 15 coaches all-time. Not sure how that was decided but most people agreed it was pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 26, 2022, 09:59:50 AM
OK. I think his reputation is more than simply "good," but I might be wrong on that.

I think he’s shifted from being viewed as one of the best coaches in the league to kind of overrated in the last few years. I think the last few years of his Clippers tenure brought the general thought to good regular season coach but not exactly a great tactician. Just my opinion. I’d definitely fall in the casual fan category.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 26, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Doc is another high floor, low ceiling coach.  As mentioned, he's a great locker room guy, he's a great manager of personalities, he keeps teams loose and playing well.  He's lacking as a critical tactician and adjuster in the playoffs.

I mean, he's top 10 all time in wins, will likely finish in the top 5.  There are less than 10 coaches who have coached more than 500 games who have a higher winning percentage than him.  He's pretty much a HOF lock.  I think top 15-20 coaches of all time is pretty fair.  He's not Pat Riley or Phil Jackson or Pop, but thats not a big ding
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BrewCity83 on April 26, 2022, 03:07:07 PM
No coach can win in the playoffs with James Harden and an injured-shooting-thumb Embiid.  Harden sucks the life out of every team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 03:26:32 PM
Jimmy is out for Game 5 with knee inflammation. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 26, 2022, 03:31:30 PM
Jimmy is out for Game 5 with knee inflammation.

And Levine likely to miss game 5 in health and safety protocols.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 03:33:16 PM
And Levine likely to miss game 5 in health and safety protocols.

I can't remember a playoffs with so many injuries.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 26, 2022, 04:14:03 PM
I can't remember a playoffs with so many injuries.

Do we think the narrative becomes "injuries are a main reason the Warriors won the title" if it's the Warriors who win it this year, like it did with the Bucks last year?

The Nets injuries helped the Bucks last year no doubt.  But that's the risk of eating your way out of a franchise.  Sometimes your hammy doesn't hold up like it should if you're in peak professional athlete shape.  Then the narrative was "the Bucks were luck to play the Hawks in the ECF" - well, the Hawks beat the fully healthy 1 seed 6ers on their home court in game 7.  And then it was "the Lakers and Clippers weren't healthy."  Turns out the Suns were probably simply the best team in the West, and Paul George, Anthony Davis, and Kawhi Leonard are simply susceptible to injures.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 26, 2022, 04:52:17 PM
Do we think the narrative becomes "injuries are a main reason the Warriors won the title" if it's the Warriors who win it this year, like it did with the Bucks last year?

The Nets injuries helped the Bucks last year no doubt.  But that's the risk of eating your way out of a franchise.  Sometimes your hammy doesn't hold up like it should if you're in peak professional athlete shape.  Then the narrative was "the Bucks were luck to play the Hawks in the ECF" - well, the Hawks beat the fully healthy 1 seed 6ers on their home court in game 7.  And then it was "the Lakers and Clippers weren't healthy."  Turns out the Suns were probably simply the best team in the West, and Paul George, Anthony Davis, and Kawhi Leonard are simply susceptible to injures.

I mean, I don't know cause its not just 1-2 injuries helping them.  The whole playoffs is awash with injuries, both conferences, at all levels.

And it would be ironic, considering injuries are the primary reason the Warriors didn't win in 2019 and the Raptors did.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 05:05:45 PM
Do we think the narrative becomes "injuries are a main reason the Warriors won the title" if it's the Warriors who win it this year, like it did with the Bucks last year?

The Nets injuries helped the Bucks last year no doubt.  But that's the risk of eating your way out of a franchise.  Sometimes your hammy doesn't hold up like it should if you're in peak professional athlete shape.  Then the narrative was "the Bucks were luck to play the Hawks in the ECF" - well, the Hawks beat the fully healthy 1 seed 6ers on their home court in game 7.  And then it was "the Lakers and Clippers weren't healthy."  Turns out the Suns were probably simply the best team in the West, and Paul George, Anthony Davis, and Kawhi Leonard are simply susceptible to injures.

Injuries are part of the sport as you stated.  If they weren't Dwyane would have been a top 15 player ever and at least another two rings. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 26, 2022, 07:42:51 PM
Honest question: are we supposed to feel empathetic for Ben Simmons?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 07:43:50 PM
Honest question: are we supposed to feel sympathetic for Ben Simmons?

Because of possible mental health issues? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 07:45:01 PM
Lost in some of the playoff stories Is that Trae Young has been awful. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 26, 2022, 07:49:20 PM
Because of possible mental health issues?

I take him at his word, but (spoken as someone who is not a professional athlete, an unprofessional athlete,  or an athlete) is it possible he just doesn't have the moxie to play on the biggest stage?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 07:54:54 PM
I take him at his word, but (spoken as someone who is not a professional athlete, an unprofessional athlete,  or an athlete) is it possible he just doesn't have the moxie to play on the biggest stage?

It's very possible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 26, 2022, 08:39:09 PM
Man that Ja dunk was something. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 26, 2022, 09:11:20 PM
This series/game is awesome.

I really want to like KAT because he’s clearly not been “the problem” in MN, but the wining to refs and trying to trash talk…he’s just not that guy.

I REALLY like Clark.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 09:15:12 PM
This series/game is awesome.

I really want to like KAT because he’s clearly not been “the problem” in MN, but the wining to refs and trying to trash talk…he’s just not that guy.

I REALLY like Clark.

This was a serious choke job by Minnesota. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 09:17:26 PM
This was a serious choke job by Minnesota.

Unless they win in overtime.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 26, 2022, 09:20:00 PM
Unless they win in overtime.  :)

Or regulation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 09:20:19 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 09:22:33 PM
Think about 2 of the 3 games Minny lost in this series?  OUCH.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
What a finish.

This is an example of why TV sports rights bring so much $$$. This kind of live drama and entertainment can’t be found in any other kind of setting.

And the viewer has to sit through commercials.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 26, 2022, 09:39:36 PM
Every little call went Memphis way

But Wolves cant complain. Completely gagged another.

Awful rebounding fighting each other for boards. Clarke owened them.

Ant ISO ball was a joke

Russell showed why 3 teams didnt want him. Most disgustingly selfish shot ive ever seen.

And Ant with the dumbest defensive play the game has ever seen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 26, 2022, 09:54:41 PM
Every little call went Memphis way

But Wolves cant complain. Completely gagged another.

Awful rebounding fighting each other for boards. Clarke owened them.

I agree and thought they hagged and played with 0.0 discipline.  Good point on Russell at the end.

Ant ISO ball was a joke

Russell showed why 3 teams didnt want him. Most disgustingly selfish shot ive ever seen.

And Ant with the dumbest defensive play the game has ever seen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 26, 2022, 10:27:56 PM
Man that Ja dunk was something.

That dunk was the best I've seen in a long time
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 26, 2022, 10:37:19 PM
Kyrie has already won a title. And KD was (by a decent margin) the best player on the GSW teams.

Disagree, Steph was the best player on those teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2022, 10:49:43 PM
KD was (by a decent margin) the best player on the GSW teams.

Disagree, Steph was the best player on those teams.

KD wasn't even on GS's first title team (2015), or on the team that won 73 regular-season games but lost to LeBron in the Finals (2016) -- so Steph obviously was the best on those teams.

In his first GS season (2016-17), KD finished a close second to Steph in regular-season scoring and just ahead of Steph in postseason scoring; in KD's second season (2017-18), they tied for the team scoring lead, though KD had the advantage in the playoffs.

So I'm not sure I'd say that either was much better than the other -- though there probably are advanced stats that would make a case for one or the other. All's I know is that they both were effen great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 26, 2022, 11:18:38 PM
Disagree, Steph was the best player on those teams.

Steph is my favorite non-MU player since MJ, but KD was the best player on those teams.  It was Steph's team and he was probably the most important cog in the offense, but KD was pretty close to untouchable during the run.

Unrelated, Ja Morant is the new AI.  Might not be the best player in the league, or his position even (I give the nod to Luka for the new class), he's not a complete player...but he will be the constantly emulated player in driveways and have an outsized effect on social media and culture.  He's simply must watch by this point cause he's the definition of electric.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 26, 2022, 11:37:10 PM
KD wasn't even on GS's first title team (2015), or on the team that won 73 regular-season games but lost to LeBron in the Finals (2016) -- so Steph obviously was the best on those teams.

In his first GS season (2016-17), KD finished a close second to Steph in regular-season scoring and just ahead of Steph in postseason scoring; in KD's second season (2017-18), they tied for the team scoring lead, though KD had the advantage in the playoffs.

So I'm not sure I'd say that either was much better than the other -- though there probably are advanced stats that would make a case for one or the other. All's I know is that they both were effen great.

I agree that they are both effen great. Big fans of them both. But KD had to come to GS to ride Curry and Co to a title. If Steph doesn't sprain his knee in round 1 of 2016, they win that championship. He missed 2 full weeks in the playoffs and wasn't the same when he returned.

I guess my main criticism to Wades post was "by a decent margin."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on April 27, 2022, 07:33:05 AM
re: Ja's dunk.     Somewhere, Joey Hauser feels a little better.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 27, 2022, 07:55:05 AM
Luv watchin' Ja play. Da dude has HOF ritten all over his own self, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 27, 2022, 07:58:20 AM
re: Ja's dunk.     Somewhere, Joey Hauser feels a little better.

Or did he just shudder and have idea why?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 27, 2022, 08:00:40 AM
Ja Morant is the new AI.  Might not be the best player in the league, or his position even (I give the nod to Luka for the new class), he's not a complete player...but he will be the constantly emulated player in driveways and have an outsized effect on social media and culture.  He's simply must watch by this point cause he's the definition of electric.

Morant really went off after the trash-talking Beverley said Ja couldn't guard him with about 4 1/2 minutes left. Ja immediately scored 13 straight points and fouled Beverley out of the game. Who couldn't guard whom?

Ja's definitely a blast to watch. I like the AI comparison, though I hope he becomes a more well-rounded (IOW, actually cares about defense) player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on April 27, 2022, 08:48:21 AM
Lost in some of the playoff stories Is that Trae Young has been awful.

Trae Young made 2 more baskets than Jimmy Butler in Game 5.
Jimmy played 0 minutes.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 27, 2022, 09:13:08 AM
Trae Young made 2 more baskets than Jimmy Butler in Game 5.
Jimmy played 0 minutes.

Similar to when Bryn Forbes outscored Jimmy Butler over the course of an entire series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 27, 2022, 09:36:09 AM
The chart in the tweet below shows Jimmy having a great playoffs so far.

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1518594524125163521?s=20&t=Q-0aWN42sQfu8WjbObPwVw
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BrewCity83 on April 27, 2022, 11:29:40 AM
The chart in the tweet below shows Jimmy having a great playoffs so far.

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1518594524125163521?s=20&t=Q-0aWN42sQfu8WjbObPwVw

...and Trae Young is sitting in the opposite corner.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 11:31:31 AM
The chart in the tweet below shows Jimmy having a great playoffs so far.

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1518594524125163521?s=20&t=Q-0aWN42sQfu8WjbObPwVw
At first, I thought that was a "fake toughness" chart.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 27, 2022, 11:55:03 AM
KAT may have physical skills, but he's lacking mental toughness. I'd like to see a "bonehead play" highlight reel once his season is over - https://streamable.com/6px6xn

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 27, 2022, 12:09:06 PM
Lost in some of the playoff stories Is that Trae Young has been awful.

I wish Trae Young would have been awful in the play-in game against the Cavs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 27, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Once Morant improves his jumper it's pretty much over if you plan to guard him one on one.  I'm torn whether I would take him over Doncic.  I don't see Doncic as ever being a great defensive player.  Morant on the other hand has the ability to be dominant on both ends of the floor.  He is absolutely electric from a quickness and vert standpoint.   I know Memphis has shot poorly but they could give Golden State a lot of problems. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 12:51:16 PM
Trae Young made 2 more baskets than Jimmy Butler in Game 5.
Jimmy played 0 minutes.

Trae may be the most over rated guy in the League. Yes, he has skills and can be electric on the court. He can be a lot of fun to watch. But when he is bad, he is really bad. When you add in his utter disregard for playing defense, I wouldn't want him on my team.

I think we have seen the ceiling for any team where he is the #1 guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 27, 2022, 12:56:45 PM
Once Morant improves his jumper it's pretty much over if you plan to guard him one on one.  I'm torn whether I would take him over Doncic.  I don't see Doncic as ever being a great defensive player.  Morant on the other hand has the ability to be dominant on both ends of the floor.  He is absolutely electric from a quickness and vert standpoint.   I know Memphis has shot poorly but they could give Golden State a lot of problems.

That isn't true though.  Doncic had a very good defensive year.  DRtg is an imperfect advanced stat, but his was very good.  He's never going to be a lockdown perimeter defender, but he plays very good help defense, shuts down a lot on the weakside, and can defend inside more than a typical guard.

He's closer to being a really good defender than Morant is, despite Morant being more gifted physically.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: pbiflyer on April 27, 2022, 02:20:32 PM
Trae may be the most over rated guy in the League. Yes, he has skills and can be electric on the court. He can be a lot of fun to watch. But when he is bad, he is really bad. When you add in his utter disregard for playing defense, I wouldn't want him on my team.

I think we have seen the ceiling for any team where he is the #1 guy.

Can't find it now, but Jimmy and Trae made the same number of 3s. But Jimmy did it on something like 20 less shots. And of course, played in one less game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 02:39:37 PM


I think we have seen the ceiling for any team where he is the #1 guy.
Conference Finals?

Honestly, I think De'Andre Hunter needs to be the Alpha on that team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 27, 2022, 03:05:05 PM
That isn't true though.  Doncic had a very good defensive year.  DRtg is an imperfect advanced stat, but his was very good.  He's never going to be a lockdown perimeter defender, but he plays very good help defense, shuts down a lot on the weakside, and can defend inside more than a typical guard.

He's at least 5 inches taller.  I think I would take Morant if I had to choose between them but it's a tough call.

He's closer to being a really good defender than Morant is, despite Morant being more gifted physically.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Conference Finals?

Honestly, I think De'Andre Hunter needs to be the Alpha on that team.


C'mon let's not be silly here.

Young is the best player on that team and I don't think it's really close.  He's in the NBA top 10 in all sorts of advanced stats.  Now I am not saying he's a top ten player, but what the Hawks need is a better "second best player."  Just like last year against the Bucks, once you figured out how to stop him, nobody stepped up to provide anything else consistently.   They just seem to have a roster of "pretty good guys" like Kevin Hurteur and John Collins.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 03:56:26 PM

C'mon let's not be silly here.

Young is the best player on that team and I don't think it's really close.  He's in the NBA top 10 in all sorts of advanced stats.  Now I am not saying he's a top ten player, but what the Hawks need is a better "second best player."  Just like last year against the Bucks, once you figured out how to stop him, nobody stepped up to provide anything else consistently.   They just seem to have a roster of "pretty good guys" like Kevin Hurteur and John Collins.
Hunter , this series, averaged 21.2 pts, shooting 56% from the field, and 46% from 3. He was pretty consistent this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 27, 2022, 04:03:27 PM
He's at least 5 inches taller.  I think I would take Morant if I had to choose between them but it's a tough call.

Doncic rated out as a above average to very good defender this year.  Morant rated as one of the worst defenders at his position in the whole league.  Thats not just a height thing.  But sure, go ahead and take Morant.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 04:06:19 PM
Hunter , this series, averaged 21.2 pts, shooting 56% from the field, and 46% from 3. He was pretty consistent this series.

Wow.  It's almost like if a defense focuses on one player, that someone else is going to be able to score more huh?

Look, if you think Hunter is an alpha, you are living on a very lonely island.  He might be a decent #2.  But he's not better than Trey Young.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 04:31:03 PM
Wow.  It's almost like if a defense focuses on one player, that someone else is going to be able to score more huh?

Look, if you think Hunter is an alpha, you are living on a very lonely island.  He might be a decent #2.  But he's not better than Trey Young.
well, you did say nobody else stepped up. Hunter did. Hunter has the abilty to average 20+. I think has the ability to be an alpha, just that Trae has to have the ball in his hands. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 05:17:03 PM
Conference Finals?

Honestly, I think De'Andre Hunter needs to be the Alpha on that team.

I don't think they have their alpha.

And as to Fluff's comment, the Alpha doesn't have to be the big scorer. Look at Green is SF.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 27, 2022, 05:20:46 PM
It certainly didn’t help that Capella was not healthy all series. Trae’s best in the pick and roll where he can hit the floater if the big doesn’t commit to him and throw the lob if the big does commit to him. His roll man was gone or ineffective. And the Heat’s defense also makes that type of an offense really difficult to have success.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 05:35:26 PM
well, you did say nobody else stepped up. Hunter did. Hunter has the abilty to average 20+. I think has the ability to be an alpha, just that Trae has to have the ball in his hands. 

Stepped up to lose 4-1. Great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 05:45:53 PM
Stepped up to lose 4-1. Great.
Again. He did all one man could. 21+ pts, 56% from the field, 46% from 3. Not his fault Trae sucked so bad that the Hawks didnt have a chance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 05:46:57 PM
Again. He did all one man could. 21+ pts, 56% from the field, 46% from 3. Not his fault Trae sucked so bad that the Hawks didnt have a chance.

He did all he could. Not an alpha.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 06:02:01 PM
He did all he could. Not an alpha.
So Alphas win every game? Must only be one alpha in the league.
I said he needs to be the alpha. Part of that has to be on the coach, getting him the touches.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 06:04:01 PM
He did all he could. Not an alpha.

A perfect example of this is Boston. Tatum only averages 3 pts and 2 rebounds more than Jaylon Brown (who is a very good player). But there are miles between them when it comes down to who is the man in Boston.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 06:06:55 PM
So Alphas win every game? Must only be one alpha in the league.
I said he needs to be the alpha. Part of that has to be on the coach, getting him the touches.

He’s not good enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 27, 2022, 06:11:09 PM
According to some guy on NBA radio Middleton may very well be out the entire next series.  Who guards Tatum and Brown?  They could put Giannis on Tatum at the end of games but they don't want to bring him away from the rim or get him into foul trouble.  Nwora may have to play in this series?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 27, 2022, 06:27:21 PM
He’s not good enough.
Thanks Jerry West. Go have another drink.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 27, 2022, 06:34:46 PM
Trae Young is a lot like Kryrie.  Very good player, but not good enough to build a championship team around.

The Hawks are caught in the playoff trap, much like the Bucks were for many years.  Good enough to make the playoffs, no chance to win a title.

And, no, De'Andre Hunter is not a franchise player.  He had a very good playoff series, but he can't do that consistently.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 27, 2022, 07:07:02 PM
Thanks Jerry West. Go have another drink.

Says the only dude who thinks De’Andre Hunter could be the Hawks alpha. 😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 27, 2022, 07:45:10 PM
Imo here are the 10 franchise players in the NBA right now in no particular order:

Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
Tatum
Doncic
Lebron
Durant
Booker
Morant
Curry

*Garland and Edwards could get there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 08:59:46 PM
Imo here are the 10 franchise players in the NBA right now in no particular order:

Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
Tatum
Doncic
Lebron
Durant
Booker
Morant
Curry

*Garland and Edwards could get there.

I don’t know that I would put Booker and Morant on the list. Great players, but it’s hard for a guard to be that guy. Curry is the exception.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 27, 2022, 09:19:57 PM
I think the Bucks win the next three. They figured out Chicago’s defense in the 2nd half. It took a Middleton injury and Lavine, NV and Derozan all being efficient at high volume to win that game.

Bulls can steal one more with the same formula. Keep shooting a high volume of threes at a high percentage and Derozan hitting tough shots.

Bump.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 27, 2022, 10:44:30 PM
Really dumb foul by Jokic.  Denver was in good position to steal this game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 27, 2022, 10:52:45 PM
I don’t know that I would put Booker and Morant on the list. Great players, but it’s hard for a guard to be that guy. Curry is the exception.

Booker maybe, but Morant just averaged 27/6/7 as a 22 year old on the 2 seed in the better conference and arguably still has a fair bit more ceiling ahead of him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 11:12:32 PM
Booker maybe, but Morant just averaged 27/6/7 as a 22 year old on the 2 seed in the better conference and arguably still has a fair bit more ceiling ahead of him.

He said ‘franchise players’. Paul, Irving, and Holiday are better PGs right now.

But I agree Ja has a lot of ceiling left and the talent to reach it. He has a chance to be a franchise guy, as does Booker.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 27, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Curry's last play highlights why I think he is one of the best of all time, unique, and the clear best player on the GSW teams, even when KD was there.

He was guarded by 3 players most of the possession, still scores a huge closeout basket.

When KD was there, he'd get wide open looks decently often, because the whole defense was focused on Curry. There are pictures/videos of 4 defenders focusing on Curry.

He's really one of a kind.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 27, 2022, 11:37:55 PM
Curry's last play highlights why I think he is one of the best of all time, unique, and the clear best player on the GSW teams, even when KD was there.

He was guarded by 3 players most of the possession, still scores a huge closeout basket.

When KD was there, he'd get wide open looks decently often, because the whole defense was focused on Curry. There are pictures/videos of 4 defenders focusing on Curry.

He's really one of a kind.

Stop it. Anyone who didn’t have KD at the top of their scouting report should’ve been fired. He’s the greatest scorer to ever play the game. Nobody was giving him “wide open looks.” He was the back to back Finals MVP. Curry’s offensive numbers were the slightest touch better than KD’s in the regular seasons when they played together. When it came to crunch time (Playoffs), KD’s offensive numbers were significantly better than Steph’s. And on the defensive end of the floor KD was miles better than Steph.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 11:38:36 PM
Curry's last play highlights why I think he is one of the best of all time, unique, and the clear best player on the GSW teams, even when KD was there.

He was guarded by 3 players most of the possession, still scores a huge closeout basket.

When KD was there, he'd get wide open looks decently often, because the whole defense was focused on Curry. There are pictures/videos of 4 defenders focusing on Curry.

He's really one of a kind.

Agree 100%
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 27, 2022, 11:43:10 PM
I’m about as big of a Steph fan as there is. He was probably the most important Warriors player from 2017-2019, but KD was their best player. Two sides of the ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 11:44:26 PM
Curry led his team to an NBA title without Durant.

Yes Durant is the best offensive player in the world, but he only won when he played with Steph.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 27, 2022, 11:45:52 PM
Stop it. Anyone who didn’t have KD at the top of their scouting report should’ve been fired. He’s the greatest scorer to ever play the game.

Um…, No.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 27, 2022, 11:47:04 PM
Curry led his team to an NBA title without Durant.

Yes Durant is the best offensive player in the world, but he only won when he played with Steph.

If KD is the best offensive player in the world and better than Steph on the defensive end, how was Steph better?

You can argue most important, but better?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 27, 2022, 11:51:00 PM
Curry led his team to an NBA title without Durant.

Yes Durant is the best offensive player in the world, but he only won when he played with Steph.

Wade led his team to a title without LeBron. That doesn’t mean Wade was a better player than LeBron on the “Heatles” teams/until 2016.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on April 28, 2022, 12:02:15 AM
He’s the greatest scorer to ever play the game.

Did you know that once upon a time there was this fellow who averaged 50 points a game for a full season? And the next year he averaged 44? And he once scored 100 points in one game?
Durant is a great scorer but come on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 12:09:40 AM
Wade led his team to a title without LeBron. That doesn’t mean Wade was a better player than LeBron on the “Heatles” teams/until 2016.

Durant led his team to a title without Steph. Oh wait. He has never done that.

KD's career numbers are slightly better than Steph. I think leadership & intangibles are on Steph's side by a decent margin.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 12:30:13 AM
Did you know that once upon a time there was this fellow who averaged 50 points a game for a full season? And the next year he averaged 44? And he once scored 100 points in one game?
Durant is a great scorer but come on.

That was a pretty silly statement he made. They had to change the rules of the game to 'stop' Wilt. Kareem was a better offensive player despite the rules of the time where he got beat up every game and there was no 3 point line to spread the defense. Oscar was a better offensive player by a decent margin. Lebron in his prime was better. Shaq in his prime was better despite never making a FT in his career. And of course, MJ was clearly better.

I saw one fun stat for offensive value which was 2*assists + PPG as a way to measure how good a player was on offense. Obviously there are flaws using a metric like that (it relies too much on other guys adding value to your total among other things), but Durant isn't even top 25.

I'm not demeaning Durant in any way - just pushing back on the notion that he is the greatest offensive player ever. One MVP award is about right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 04:28:21 AM
Nm
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 28, 2022, 06:00:28 AM
Durant led his team to a title without Steph. Oh wait. He has never done that.

KD's career numbers are slightly better than Steph. I think leadership & intangibles are on Steph's side by a decent margin.

But LBJ hadn’t ever done that before he went to Miami and won titles with Wade, who had already won a title without LBJ. Wade was not the better player than LBJ despite that. It’s a horrible argument.

So KD’s offensive numbers are slightly better than Steph. And his defense is miles better than Steph’s. I’d say that makes him a better player than Steph.

That was a pretty silly statement he made. They had to change the rules of the game to 'stop' Wilt. Kareem was a better offensive player despite the rules of the time where he got beat up every game and there was no 3 point line to spread the defense. Oscar was a better offensive player by a decent margin. Lebron in his prime was better. Shaq in his prime was better despite never making a FT in his career. And of course, MJ was clearly better.

I saw one fun stat for offensive value which was 2*assists + PPG as a way to measure how good a player was on offense. Obviously there are flaws using a metric like that (it relies too much on other guys adding value to your total among other things), but Durant isn't even top 25.

I'm not demeaning Durant in any way - just pushing back on the notion that he is the greatest offensive player ever. One MVP award is about right.

There’s a difference between best scorer and best offensive player. It’s laughable to call Shaq or LBJ better scorers than KD. Wilt sure you can argue it. He was a physically dominant player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 06:30:50 AM
Great thread.  The old guys were great for their time and would get absolutely abused in today's game.  They were bigger and more athletic than anyone in their period.  Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid. 

If we're talking best scorers of all time, the answer is Lebron James.  He has consistently scored 25 a game every single year since he was a rookie in 2003.

You may not like the guy, but he is undeniably the best scorer of all time.  He has an absolutely complete basketball skill set.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 06:46:46 AM
My memory's a little cloudy, but I believe I've heard that some guy named Michael Jordan was a pretty good scorer.

The stats say he averaged more ppg than any player ever, that he once scored 41 a game in the NBA Finals, and that he made a few important shots in his career. But what do stats know?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 07:04:14 AM
My memory's a little cloudy, but I believe I've heard that some guy named Michael Jordan was a pretty good scorer.

The stats say he averaged more ppg than any player ever, that he once scored 41 a game in the NBA Finals, and that he made a few important shots in his career. But what do stats know?

Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 28, 2022, 08:43:45 AM
Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.
I know many have said this before and I firmly believe it is true; Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 08:45:48 AM
I know many have said this before and I firmly believe it is true; Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's NBA.

Unfortunately, we will never know this to be a fact.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.
I think the statement was that Durant was the best scorer to ever play the game. Durant's close, but MJ is a better scorer IMO. Who cares about win shares, or giving the ball up. Different game, so eFG% is much different now than even when MJ played. 3pt shots are way up.

One can make a case for Wilt being the greatest scorer, but to paraphrase Redick, he was playing against plumbers and firemen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on April 28, 2022, 09:15:52 AM
Imo here are the 10 franchise players in the NBA right now in no particular order:

Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
Tatum
Doncic
Lebron
Durant
Booker
Morant
Curry

*Garland and Edwards could get there.

Morant isn't there yet.  I put him in the next tier with Kyrie Irving and Trae Young.

Jimmy Butler belongs on this list.  And when healthy, Kawhi Leonard has been a franchise player.

Booker is a borderline franchise player in my opinion.  An elite scorer, but he's not elite in any other area. But Phoenix figured out how to build around Booker perfectly.  An elite distributor in Chris Paul, an elite perimeter defender in Mikal Bridges, and an elite rebounder in DeAndre Ayton.  And all three are good complementary scorers.

But without the perfect supporting cast, I can't see Booker carrying a team to a title.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2022, 09:19:04 AM
Title...smytle, it don't matta.  He's porkin' Kendall
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 09:20:52 AM
Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game.  I would take him over Larry Bird in a heartbeat.  I don't think people have a good understand of how good he actually has been.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 09:21:40 AM
KD's career numbers are slightly better than Steph. I think leadership & intangibles are on Steph's side by a decent margin.


Surprised you didn't bring up the eye-test too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on April 28, 2022, 09:23:02 AM
Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game.  I would take him over Larry Bird in a heartbeat.  I don't think people have a good understand of how good he actually has been.

Agreed.  If it wasn't for the injuries (he missed basically 2.5 seasons), his numbers would be that of a top 5 player to ever play the game.  As it is, I think he'll still wind up being a top 10 player ever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 09:27:47 AM
Great thread.  The old guys were great for their time and would get absolutely abused in today's game.  They were bigger and more athletic than anyone in their period.  Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid. 


So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk.  ::)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 09:31:11 AM
So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk.  ::)

That isn't what I said.  But keep going.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 28, 2022, 09:34:50 AM
So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk.  ::)

Ruth was a fat drunk and AWESOME
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 09:45:19 AM
So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 


I think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt would be today and I don't think it's particularly close.  Kareem has more of a diverse offensive skill set and I think would thrive in today's NBA. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 09:55:53 AM
That isn't what I said.  But keep going.


You said "Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid."

The clear implication was that they couldn't compete.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 09:56:51 AM
Isn't it conceivable that the players of yesteryear would adjust to today's game and train completely differently? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 09:59:00 AM
Ruth was a fat drunk and AWESOME

I should have said Mantle instead. He wasn't fat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 10:05:03 AM
Isn't it conceivable that the players of yesteryear would adjust to today's game and train completely differently?

Of course it is. If Bird played today, he would probably be one of the 3 best 3 point shooters in the League. It was not a priority when he played.

On the other hand, he may not have even been good enough to make it to the NBA (at least according to the way some posters here think  8-) )


Kareem is the ultimate example. He was so good that they changed the rules so that he couldn't dunk the ball anymore because he was too tall, too quick, too athletic. So He re-built his offensive game to become possible the greatest offensive player ever.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jficke13 on April 28, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
So you think Embiid and Jokic are better players than Wilt or Kareem would be today? 

Now that is a loony take. When KD wins 5 more MVPs, I will have that discussion with you.

We can also discuss how Babe Ruth was an overrated fat drunk.  ::)

Do people ever do the opposite? What would Giannis of 2022 do if he entered the NBA in 1959?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 10:08:10 AM

You said "Comparing guys like Wilt, Kareem, and the Big O to today's players is stupid."

The clear implication was that they couldn't compete.

No, I said it was stupid.  Because the game is very different.

There was no implication that they couldn't compete.  You cooked that up in your noodle.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Kevin Durant is the best forward to play the game. 

LBJ says hello. So does De'Andre Hunter
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 10:23:19 AM
Of course it is. If Bird played today, he would probably be one of the 3 best 3 point shooters in the League. It was not a priority when he played.

On the other hand, he may not have even been good enough to make it to the NBA (at least according to the way some posters here think  8-) )


Kareem is the ultimate example. He was so good that they changed the rules so that he couldn't dunk the ball anymore because he was too tall, too quick, too athletic. So He re-built his offensive game to become possible the greatest offensive player ever.

It also seems to me that the game was much more physical back in the day on the ball.  I see guys get mugged off the ball but there are far more touch fouls on the perimeter and a lot more flopping.  I think the biggest change is we are seeing much more overall ball skills from taller/bigger guys. But on the other hand very few play in the post.  I have a lot of difficulty believing Shaq wouldn't just annihilate people in this era. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 10:49:48 AM
It also seems to me that the game was much more physical back in the day on the ball.  I see guys get mugged off the ball but there are far more touch fouls on the perimeter and a lot more flopping.  I think the biggest change is we are seeing much more overall ball skills from taller/bigger guys. But on the other hand very few play in the post.  I have a lot of difficulty believing Shaq wouldn't just annihilate people in this era.

That has to be taken with a grain of salt. If NBA guards today played against the Big O, they would very seldom get the ball past mid-court. They would be called for carrying the ball on virtually every play.

Of course they would adjust - but it would take away many of the things they are able to do so easily now.

Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys. There are just MORE athletes today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 11:11:44 AM
That has to be taken with a grain of salt. If NBA guards today played against the Big O, they would very seldom get the ball past mid-court. They would be called for carrying the ball on virtually every play.

Of course they would adjust - but it would take away many of the things they are able to do so easily now.

Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys. There are just MORE athletes today.

Here's an example I am thinking about:
Would you take KAT over Kareem, Shaq, or Tim Duncan?  I don't see it frankly but it sounds like for some Scoopers they would clearly go with Towns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 11:16:43 AM
Here's an example I am thinking about:
Would you take KAT over Kareem, Shaq, or Tim Duncan?  I don't see it frankly but it sounds like for some Scoopers they would clearly go with Towns.

KAT isn't a first ballot HOFer.

Zero people here would take KAT.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 11:19:53 AM
KAT isn't a first ballot HOFer.

Zero people here would take KAT.

I believe you wrote "the older guys would get abused in today's game." 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 11:21:57 AM
I believe you wrote "the older guys would get abused in today's game."

Guys from the 90s and 2ks are not the older guys that were named.

We were discussing Wilt, Oscar, and Kareem.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 11:47:20 AM
Guys from the 90s and 2ks are not the older guys that were named.

We were discussing Wilt, Oscar, and Kareem.

So Oscar Robertson and say Jerry West couldn't adjust their games to this era?  And Kareem, arguably the greatest college and NBA player in the history of the sport would struggle against today's bigs?  This is complete nonsense.  Russell and Wilt would be just fine as well. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 11:50:10 AM
So Oscar Robertson and say Jerry West couldn't adjust their games to this era?  And Kareem, arguably the greatest college and NBA player in the history of the sport would struggle against today's bigs?  This is complete nonsense.  Russell and Wilt would be just fine as well.

That is what I'm saying, and it isn't nonsense.  Kareem might be the only exception to this rule.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 11:52:56 AM
That is what I'm saying, and it isn't nonsense.  Kareem might be the only exception to this rule.

And I'm saying that's ridiculous.  We'll agree to disagree here. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 11:56:44 AM
And I'm saying that's ridiculous.  We'll agree to disagree here.

Lol okay.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 28, 2022, 12:11:20 PM
Todays top athletes are not more athletic that earlier guys.

This is incorrect.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 28, 2022, 12:18:17 PM
If you put guys from the 70s in a time machine and had them play in the NBA today, they would perform considerably worse than they did in their own time periods.

If those guys were born in and came up in the modern era, they could be even more dominate than they were in their original times
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 12:30:00 PM
This is incorrect.

Yes, but they would train completely differently today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 12:38:17 PM
Yes, but they would train completely differently today.

But they still might not be the best.  The competition level today is incredible. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 12:47:30 PM
Who has a better career eFG% and FG%?  Who gave the ball up to his teammates more?  Win shares?

Jordan does have the highest PPG, I'll give you that.

The comment was that Durant is "the greatest scorer to ever play the game." Well, he simply isn't. It's either Kareem by total points or Jordan by career average. Those are facts.

Jordan in his prime would be the best scorer in today's NBA. That's an opinion ... though I know an old guy like me, reaching all the way back to the golden oldie days of 1996-98, have fuzzy memories when it comes to new-fangled basketball. Think of how many more points Jordan would have scored if they didn't have to pause the game to take the ball out of the peach basket every time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 12:50:34 PM
The comment was that Durant is "the greatest scorer to ever play the game." Well, he simply isn't. It's either Kareem by total points or Jordan by career average. Those are facts.

Jordan in his prime would be the best scorer in today's NBA. That's an opinion ... though I know an old guy like me, reaching all the way back to the golden oldie days of 1996-98, have fuzzy memories when it comes to new-fangled basketball. Think of how many more points Jordan would have scored if they didn't have to pause the game to take the ball out of the peach basket every time.

No, it's very much up for debate since each era has different rule sets and different levels of competition.

It isn't "who scored the most points ever".  It isn't "who had the highest ppg for their career".

I'm sure you see the difference.  Otherwise no one would have chimed in at all.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 12:53:37 PM
This is incorrect.

Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 12:56:51 PM
Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

And many of the players today could probably excel at the events you listed as well.

This really boils down to the talent pool being much smaller versus today's crowded talent pool.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 12:57:11 PM
No, it's very much up for debate since each era has different rule sets and different levels of competition.

It isn't "who scored the most points ever".  It isn't "who had the highest ppg for their career".


Nope. Recency bias takes precedent. It's all that matters. "I never saw those guys play so they couldn't possibly be better."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 12:58:17 PM
Nope. Recency bias takes precedent. It's all that matters. "I never saw those guys play so they couldn't possibly be better."

Nope.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 12:59:15 PM
And many of the players today could probably excel at the events you listed as well.

This really boils down to the talent pool being much smaller versus today's crowded talent pool.

That's what I have been saying. But FEWER talented athletes does not mean LESS talented athletes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 01:00:22 PM
I absolutely love these discussions, guys. It is what makes following sports fun.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 28, 2022, 01:20:27 PM
Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

Or David Thompson 45 years ago. Or Julius 50 years ago. Or Elgin 60 years ago.

Wilt may have been even better. Easily the strongest man ever to play in the NBA. Was a track athlete in both a strength event (shotput) and a speed event (high jump). Had near sprinter speed and was a great leaper.

Guys this athletic were rare back then as opposed to now, but they do not pale in any way to today's best athletes.

MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on April 28, 2022, 01:20:48 PM
Wilt played against a lot of guys built like Oso.   Big O was the first of the big power guards, but he was 6'5 and 220 being guarded by guys built like Kam or Stevie.   Wilt would have to adapt his game.   Big O would be routinely guarded by players bigger than he was.    He would adapt, I doubt he would dominate.    Could Erving play small forward today at 6'6?  Wouldn't he need more range on his jumper and better ball handling skills?


Murf  was an outstanding PF in his day who played against Bill Russell in the post.   Murf was 6'4.     Name the last successful 6'4 post player.   Barkley?   David Boone?  Roosevelt Chapman?  Dantley?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 01:24:40 PM
MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.
The PED's and weed are better now. So Jordan might have been able to dunk from the logo in today's world.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 28, 2022, 01:25:01 PM
Try to name an athlete today that is more athletic than MJ was 40 years ago.

IMHO, There has never been a more athletic player than MJ, maybe just as athletic but not more. The same with his skill set and desire to win. I guess that's why most consider him the best.

I love these discussions too. Fun stuff.

I can't stand people who get offended or mad if you assert their guy (MJ, LBJ, Kareem etc.) are second best or "only" top 5. That is a huge compliment that that player is in the top 0.001% of all time. MJ is my guy but if someone thinks LBJ is better and MJ is #2,  that person appreciates how great MJ was and that's cool.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 01:47:00 PM
MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.

You never saw a young MJ on the court. If you had, your opinion might change. You certainly would not say that Anthony Edwards was as good of an athlete. I have only seen 3 guys where the opposing team's crowd would stand as one when they started a drive to the basket - MJ, Dr. J, and Connie Hawkins.


Virtually every player other than MJ who has dunked from the FT line either did it by sprinting from the fat end of the court or were past the line when they left the ground. There are absolutely NOT 50+ players who can do this.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 28, 2022, 02:08:22 PM
You never saw a young MJ on the court. If you had, your opinion might change. You certainly would not say that Anthony Edwards was as good of an athlete. I have only seen 3 guys where the opposing team's crowd would stand as one when they started a drive to the basket - MJ, Dr. J, and Connie Hawkins.


Virtually every player other than MJ who has dunked from the FT line either did it by sprinting from the fat end of the court or were past the line when they left the ground. There are absolutely NOT 50+ players who can do this.

I think you underestimate how athletic the guys are now. Amazing dunks 15 years ago look routine. Heck, even the Vince Carter dunk contest looks a little pedestrian now.

On pure athleticism, I’m not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I’d argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It’s just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 02:34:20 PM
Athleticism includes more than quicks and leaping ability.  And being great includes even more skills.  My take is Curry, Duncan, Doncic, Jokic, Bird, Magic, Stockton, Nash, Dantley,  Miller, and countless other Hall of Famers weren't considered "athletic" by these incomplete standards.  There's probably thousands and thousands of guys that can jump out of the gym and are quicker than these guys.  That does not mean they are better athletes or close to the same players. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 02:37:11 PM
Magic Johnson was considered pretty darn athletic for his day.  I don't think he would be considered so now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 02:43:28 PM
Magic Johnson was considered pretty darn athletic for his day.  I don't think he would be considered so now.

Yep.  Who knows if he or Bird would even get minutes on the Atlanta Hawks?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 02:47:01 PM

On pure athleticism, I’m not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I’d argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It’s just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.
Dominic might be my favorite MU player, but he was not as athletic as prime MJ. Jordans vertical was 46, compared to 38.5 for Dom. Wilt might be those most athletic. Of course, not sure how many of his stories are fish stories. Like lifting Arnold (schwarzzennaegger, not the kid from Different strokes) with one arm. He supposedly had a 48 inch vertical as well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 02:50:39 PM
Dominic might be my favorite MU player, but he was not as athletic as prime MJ. Jordans vertical was 46, compared to 38.5 for Dom. Wilt might be those most athletic. Of course, not sure how many of his stories are fish stories. Like lifting Arnold (schwarzzennaegger, not the kid from Different strokes) with ne arm. He supposedly had a 48 inch vertical as well.

Muggsy had a legitimate 44.5 vert which was solidified at the NBA combine in 1984.  He could also bench 335 lbs.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 02:56:50 PM
Yep.  Who knows if he or Bird would even get minutes on the Atlanta Hawks?


Don't be silly now.  Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard whose only real weakness was outside shooting.  (And he improved on that late in his career.)
 Best point guard of all time and IMO would have no issue playing in this era.

Bird would be great too obviously.  I think his game would be harder to translate to now.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 28, 2022, 03:04:55 PM
Muggsy had a legitimate 44.5 vert which was solidified at the NBA combine in 1984.  He could also bench 335 lbs.  :)

I loved seeing Muggsy in that new Ceasar's sportsbook commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNfFsVfBi0
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 03:06:51 PM



Bird would be great too obviously.  I think his game would be harder to translate to now.

I'd be interested in your reasoning for this.

Doncic seems to have no trouble with today's game and Bird was more skilled than he is.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 03:11:50 PM
I loved seeing Muggsy in that new Ceasar's sportsbook commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNfFsVfBi0

Muggsy is a solid human being and an outstanding role model for both diminutive and non-diminutive human beings.  Tremendous heart and toughness and perhaps the greatest zoomability with the rock in NBA history. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 03:12:50 PM
I think you underestimate how athletic the guys are now. Amazing dunks 15 years ago look routine. Heck, even the Vince Carter dunk contest looks a little pedestrian now.

On pure athleticism, I’m not sure Jordan is a clear cut number one. Am I crazy to think Dominic James was more athletic? Just far less skilled?

LeBron is crazy athletic for a guy his size. I’d argue his athleticism is better than Jordan. It’s just Jordan had a ton of skills to go with his athleticism that made him so great.

I do know how crazy athletic guys are now. Best athletes in the world. And remember, I am not talking about 30+ MJ. I am talking early 20's athletic prime.

Just curious - did you ever see him live in his first 5 years in the League? I probably averaged 15-20 games a year, so I saw everyone play. No one could touch MJ's combination of athletic abilities.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 03:15:58 PM
I'd be interested in your reasoning for this.

Doncic seems to have no trouble with today's game and Bird was more skilled than he is.


First, I don't believe that to be the case.  Second, I think he would struggle more with the quickness of the defenses compared to his era.  Third, I did say he would still be "great."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 28, 2022, 03:17:21 PM
As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 03:18:05 PM

First, I don't believe that to be the case.  Second, I think he would struggle more with the quickness of the defenses compared to his era.  Third, I did say he would still be "great."

Larry worked his ass off for every bucket, and was the definition of a gym rat.  I think we saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure that if Larry worked any harder that he'd have been a better player.

Aka, we saw Larry at his absolute best and top of his potential.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 03:23:10 PM
I do know how crazy athletic guys are now. Best athletes in the world. And remember, I am not talking about 30+ MJ. I am talking early 20's athletic prime.

Just curious - did you ever see him live in his first 5 years in the League? I probably averaged 15-20 games a year, so I saw everyone play. No one could touch MJ's combination of athletic abilities.


He had Ja Morant's vertical and was about four or five inches taller.  The reason he became such an icon even before his championships was because the NBA had never quite seen that type of athleticism before.  (For cultural reference sake, the original Air Jordans came out in 1985.)  Dr. J was probably the standard bearer at the time, but he was nowhere near Jordan.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on April 28, 2022, 03:27:05 PM
Both Wilt and Jordan averaged exactly 30.1 points per game for their career.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Larry worked his ass off for every bucket, and was the definition of a gym rat.  I think we saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure that if Larry worked any harder that he'd have been a better player.

Aka, we saw Larry at his absolute best and top of his potential.

“We saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime”

And you, good sir, are the esteemed winner of the “2022 Mr. Obvious” award.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 28, 2022, 03:41:19 PM
As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever

Muggsy will not be happy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 03:44:13 PM
As long as we all acknowledge Bob Cousy was the best PG ever
Plumbers and fireman, my friend.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 28, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
Larry Bird would come out against todays players and drop 50
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on April 28, 2022, 03:52:13 PM
Larry Bird would come out against todays players and drop 50

He'd have to...he's not nearly as svelte as he was back in the day.

(https://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/nba_g_bird_395-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 03:55:18 PM
“We saw the peak of his game when he was in his prime”

And you, good sir, are the esteemed winner of the “2022 Mr. Obvious” award.

I should have said "potential".  Many players don't live up to their potential.  Larry maximized everything about his game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 03:57:21 PM
Again, there's this misnomer that running and  jumping mean everything.  Didn't Bird do alright vs Dominique Wilkins?  As far as I know no one could guard Bird at all until he threw out his back.

Nowitzki seemed to manage okay in the 2011 Finals vs Lebron and Wade.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 28, 2022, 04:04:09 PM
He'd have to...he's not nearly as svelte as he was back in the day.

(https://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/nba_g_bird_395-1.jpg)

He’s drop 50 on Jimmy in that outfit
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 04:09:02 PM
Again, there's this misnomer that running and  jumping mean everything.  Didn't Bird do alright vs Dominique Wilkins?  As far as I know no one could guard Bird at all until he threw out his back.

Nowitzki seemed to manage okay in the 2011 Finals vs Lebron and Wade.


Nowitzki also had inches on Bird.

But your Dominique statement reminded me that I saw this just a few weeks ago.  There is no doubt that he was a great player, but just look at this.  The first thing I noticed was how slow and under the basket 1980s NBA stands in comparison to now.  You honestly think Bird would get away with simple pick plays getting him open at the free throw line now?  Especially considering the NBA can zone up now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Roy0sQyC4

Look, I have been watching the NBA for a long time.  The level of play that you see now is really much higher than then.  It's faster, elevated, with much more sophisticated defenses. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 04:09:07 PM
He’s drop 50 on Jimmy in that outfit
https://twitter.com/i/status/1519107718602240006

Sorry, I don't know how to embed such a thing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 04:16:22 PM

Nowitzki also had inches on Bird.

But your Dominique statement reminded me that I saw this just a few weeks ago.  There is no doubt that he was a great player, but just look at this.  The first thing I noticed was how slow and under the basket 1980s NBA stands in comparison to now.  You honestly think Bird would get away with simple pick plays getting him open at the free throw line now?  Especially considering the NBA can zone up now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Roy0sQyC4

Look, I have been watching the NBA for a long time.  The level of play that you see now is really much higher than then.  It's faster, elevated, with much more sophisticated defenses.

So your take is Nowitzki could adjust because of his height.  Okay.  So would either of them be as good as say Jimmy Butler or Demar DeRozan in this era?  Would they be as good as Dillon Brooks?  DeAndre Hunter?  Middleton?  Give us an idea where you think they would project if they played today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 28, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1519107718602240006

Sorry, I don't know how to embed such a thing.

Yurtsevan hitting him with the "bro chill" hand was hilarious
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 04:21:36 PM
So your take is Nowitzki could adjust because of his height.  Okay.  So would either of them be as good as say Jimmy Butler or Demar DeRozan in this era?  Would they be as good as Dillon Brooks?  DeAndre Hunter?  Middleton?  Give us an idea where you think they would project if they played today.


I said he would still be great but that defenses of today would give him more trouble now than during his era.  I don't know what else needs to be said especially if your watched the video I posted.

And yes, if you watched Dirk the fact that he was 7'0" was the reason for a lot of his success.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2022, 04:24:02 PM

Nowitzki also had inches on Bird.

But your Dominique statement reminded me that I saw this just a few weeks ago.  There is no doubt that he was a great player, but just look at this.  The first thing I noticed was how slow and under the basket 1980s NBA stands in comparison to now.  You honestly think Bird would get away with simple pick plays getting him open at the free throw line now?  Especially considering the NBA can zone up now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18Roy0sQyC4

Look, I have been watching the NBA for a long time.  The level of play that you see now is really much higher than then.  It's faster, elevated, with much more sophisticated defenses.
Here's some Bird athleticism, pre back injurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rPl8_RTBHA
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on April 28, 2022, 04:24:42 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1519107718602240006

Sorry, I don't know how to embed such a thing.

He's the coolest.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 04:26:08 PM
I should have said "potential".  Many players don't live up to their potential.  Larry maximized everything about his game.

I knew what you meant to say. I just had to comment on how it came out.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2022, 04:29:35 PM

I said he would still be great but that defenses of today would give him more trouble now than during his era.  I don't know what else needs to be said especially if your watched the video I posted.

And yes, if you watched Dirk the fact that he was 7'0" was the reason for a lot of his success.

Being tall is a good thing for hoops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 04:44:52 PM

I said he would still be great but that defenses of today would give him more trouble now than during his era.  I don't know what else needs to be said especially if your watched the video I posted.

And yes, if you watched Dirk the fact that he was 7'0" was the reason for a lot of his success.

That's not an answer.  Would he be an all-star level player or not?  Would he be as good as Siakam or Middleton or more a fringe 3/4?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 05:16:59 PM
He's the coolest.

Did he bang your wife or something?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2022, 05:26:53 PM
MJ dunked from the FT line and people's minds were absolutely blown.  There are 50+ guys in the NBA that could do that now.  Anthony Edwards is every bit as athletic as MJ.  I'm a massive MJ fan and no doubt those as athletic aren't the player he was, but he's not peerless in the modern NBA as an athlete.

Wilt was a 7 footer that was agile and fast and could jump in an era, and subsequent eras, where 7 footers were usually lumbering and immobile.  Now?  There are a plenty of 7 footers that can do that.  Look at Giannis.  Look at Embiid.  He'll KD is basically 7 foot.  A lot of Wilt's T&F feats are apocryphal.  Especially going back to HS days.

Do the freak athletes measure up by today's standards?  Sure.  But like Hard's said, there is a huge pool of comparable athletes.  Freakish athleticism alone won't let you dominate, or even have a huge leg up on the competition.

Wilt was an absolute athletic freak of nature. I don't think there has ever been another 7' person with his range of athleticism.

There isn't another 7' person alive today that, with modern track equipment (shoes, bouncy tracks, etc.), that could match his numbers. Under 11 sec in the 100 m, under 50 sec in the 400 m. Not to mention his 46-48" vertical, and up to 500 lb bench press.

He was stronger than Shaq, and higher vertical than Vince Carter, and faster than all the rest.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 05:35:37 PM
That's not an answer.  Would he be an all-star level player or not?  Would he be as good as Siakam or Middleton or more a fringe 3/4?

You keep asking different questions and I don’t really feel like answering them. I have stated what I thought his impact would be.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2022, 05:36:37 PM
Here's some Bird athleticism, pre back injurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rPl8_RTBHA


Exactly. Pretty run of the mill.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 28, 2022, 05:51:31 PM
Wilt was an absolute athletic freak of nature. I don't think there has ever been another 7' person with his range of athleticism.

There isn't another 7' person alive today that, with modern track equipment (shoes, bouncy tracks, etc.), that could match his numbers. Under 11 sec in the 100 m, under 50 sec in the 400 m. Not to mention his 46-48" vertical, and up to 500 lb bench press.

He was stronger than Shaq, and higher vertical than Vince Carter, and faster than all the rest.

All those track times are from HS with no official records and with the alleged times he would have been nationally ranked.  And the Kansas 400M time is just heresay.

He was no doubt an once in a generation athlete and his jumping on the Kansas track team was impressive enough, but there is a lot of unofficial urban legend style stories to substantiate some of his athletic prowess.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 06:48:20 PM
Both Wilt and Jordan averaged exactly 30.1 points per game for their career.

MJ 30.12 ppg ... Wilt 30.07.

That's the regular season. Playoffs: MJ 33.45 ... and nobody else was within 3.5 ppg.

The greatest scorer in basketball history. Obviously.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on April 28, 2022, 08:03:11 PM
MJ 30.12 ppg ... Wilt 30.07.

That's the regular season. Playoffs: MJ 33.45 ... and nobody else was within 3.5 ppg.

The greatest scorer in basketball history. Obviously.

Not according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Regular_season


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#Regular_season
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 08:43:40 PM
CP3 is only 13/13 tonight. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 08:48:46 PM
Not according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Regular_season


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#Regular_season

Huh?

Jordan: 32,292 points in 1,072 games = 30.123 ppg

Chamberlain: 31,419 points in 1045 games = 30.066 ppg

What does Wikipedia say that's different?

Also, Jordan averaged 33.4 ppg in the playoffs, Wilt 22.5.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2022, 09:13:31 PM
If you put guys from the 70s in a time machine and had them play in the NBA today, they would perform considerably worse than they did in their own time periods.

If those guys were born in and came up in the modern era, they could be even more dominate than they were in their original times

Fully agree.

Equivalently. If you took guys from today and had them play in the 70's with the 70's shoes, and 70 rules. Some guys would struggle immensely (would be relegated to not dribbling, or not being effective because they can't dribble well without carrying/palming, not to mention they'd get called for a travel on 90+% of their plays).

But let them grow up in that same system, and they'd be equally or more dominant.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 09:16:11 PM
CP3 is only 13/13 tonight.

Finished 14-14 in a virtuoso clutch performance.

Just imagine how well he'd have done if he cared as much as college players do!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on April 28, 2022, 09:17:57 PM
Finished 14-14 in a virtuoso clutch performance.

Just imagine how well he'd have done if he cared as much as college players do!

Did he kick anyone in the nuts tonight?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 09:22:07 PM
Did he kick anyone in the nuts tonight?
..

I guess I should watch the video.  Should have he been suspended?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on April 28, 2022, 09:36:37 PM
..

I guess I should watch the video.  Should have he been suspended?

Nah. Fined at most.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 28, 2022, 09:41:23 PM
Nah. Fined at most.

It was an odd kick I must say.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on April 28, 2022, 09:42:46 PM
Huh?


What does Wikipedia say that's different?



I gave you the two links- that's all I can do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2022, 09:53:51 PM
I gave you the two links- that's all I can do.

Neither of the links refutes the facts I presented. That's all I can respond with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 29, 2022, 04:35:42 AM
Did he kick anyone in the nuts tonight?
No, but he did throw a blatant elbow into Alvarado's teeth in the last couple minutes. NO couldn't challenge since they used their one challenge earlier.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 29, 2022, 04:41:11 AM
IDK.  I thought Paul was squaring up for the shot.  The refs didn't seem to think it was anything.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on April 29, 2022, 05:39:56 AM
IDK.  I thought Paul was squaring up for the shot.  The refs didn't seem to think it was anything.
Nothing the refs could do, they didn't call it at the time. They actually called the foul on Alvarado.

https://youtu.be/AAMOq19v2SA
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2022, 07:21:25 AM
In the closing seconds vs. Dallas, Jazz veteran Mike Conley pulled a "Koby" -- drove into the lane with no idea where he was going, tried to stop, and traveled. Played a major role in costing Utah the game.

The Mavs' dramatic win sets up what should be a fun matchup with the Suns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 29, 2022, 01:29:04 PM
I'm not sure if it will be in studio, as a color guy, or something else, but after a potential HOF career, Draymond Green is going to be a legendary media voice.   He's so damn GOOD in these snippets and pods they get him on during the season, not just entertaining, but with a really insightful and knowledgeable brand of on court analysis and delivery.  He'll be incredible as not only someone who played the game in a unique and innovative way, but also as one of the great trash talkers of his generation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on April 29, 2022, 01:36:13 PM
I'm not sure if it will be in studio, as a color guy, or something else, but after a potential HOF career, Draymond Green is going to be a legendary media voice.   He's so damn GOOD in these snippets and pods they get him on during the season, not just entertaining, but with a really insightful and knowledgeable brand of on court analysis and delivery.  He'll be incredible as not only someone who played the game in a unique and innovative way, but also as one of the great trash talkers of his generation.

Give him Paul Pierce's job
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2022, 01:41:09 PM
I'm not sure if it will be in studio, as a color guy, or something else, but after a potential HOF career, Draymond Green is going to be a legendary media voice.   He's so damn GOOD in these snippets and pods they get him on during the season, not just entertaining, but with a really insightful and knowledgeable brand of on court analysis and delivery.  He'll be incredible as not only someone who played the game in a unique and innovative way, but also as one of the great trash talkers of his generation.

He was outstanding in his post-game comments as well. He was as complimentary toward Jokic as I've ever heard one player be about another. He thanked Jokic for being so great that Draymond became a better player just by going up against him in this series.

The exact opposite look from the confrontational Draymond that we see on the court. He is and has been the Alpha of the GS team for years. I think that is a big part of why Durant left because it was never going to be his team.

Curry and Klay don't need the constant kudos that KD craves. Kerr gives Curry the green light at all times to be the entertainer that he wants to be and there are no limits put on Klay on the offensive end. Every shot is a good shot.


One more quick point: have we ever had this many good coaches in the NBA at the same time?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
Give him Paul Pierce's job

Except then he'd be working for the same fool who hired Paul Pierce.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on April 29, 2022, 02:01:55 PM
He was outstanding in his post-game comments as well. He was as complimentary toward Jokic as I've ever heard one player be about another. He thanked Jokic for being so great that Draymond became a better player just by going up against him in this series.

The exact opposite look from the confrontational Draymond that we see on the court. He is and has been the Alpha of the GS team for years. I think that is a big part of why Durant left because it was never going to be his team.

Curry and Klay don't need the constant kudos that KD craves. Kerr gives Curry the green light at all times to be the entertainer that he wants to be and there are no limits put on Klay on the offensive end. Every shot is a good shot.

While much is made of the Splash Bros, and rightly so, Draymond's dynamic with Curry is my favorite in the league.  The trust, understanding, and wordless communication they have is absolutely unreal.  Watching them both work off the ball is poetry in motion.

I think an underrated aspect of Draymond's career is getting to play with Iguodala early on.  Another "undersized" defensive stalwart who is a very cerebral player but also an example of how to be a leader and hugely impactful star without being a scoring beast.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 29, 2022, 08:45:57 PM
Ouch.  I just heard Embiid is out indefinitely?  Horrible even if you're not rooting for Philly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2022, 09:12:30 PM
Ouch.  I just heard Embiid is out indefinitely?  Horrible even if you're not rooting for Philly.

Sixers were up 119-90 with 3:58 to play when the injury happened.

Rivers is my guy, but he's gonna be mad at himself. At least I hope so.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2022, 10:00:18 PM
Sixers were up 119-90 with 3:58 to play when the injury happened.

Rivers is my guy, but he's gonna be mad at himself. At least I hope so.

For a guy who plays so hard for so many minutes, having him on the floor then should be a fire able offense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 29, 2022, 10:39:21 PM
Why exactly was he on the floor?  This seems egregious. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 29, 2022, 10:44:03 PM
Sadly my guarantee of the Wolves beating Memphis comes up short. Should have won 5 out of 6 games lmao.

Mental midgets.

Trade Kat for someone with some stones. Dude lets guards get 3 o rbounds and put backs. Then panics and shoots a 40 footer down 4 with 2 minutes left. Hes a clown.

And Russell is truly a god awful basketball player. Putting him back in lost the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2022, 10:45:55 PM
Not sure why Beverley thought he had to shoot a difficult 3 when Min was down 4 with 25 seconds left. Take the 2 and go from there.

I guess Beverley won’t be disrobing and screaming after this one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 29, 2022, 10:47:00 PM
Not sure why Beverley thought he had to shoot a difficult 3 when Min was down 4 with 25 seconds left. Take the 2 and go from there.

I guess Beverley won’t be disrobing and screaming after this one.

Same reason why KAT shot from 40 down 4 with 2 minutes left.

Idiots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2022, 07:30:15 AM
Love to see Jimmy's Heat, Wes' Bucks, Jae's Suns, and Juan's Warriors in the conference finals to guarantee a ring for a Marquette alum.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on April 30, 2022, 07:36:10 AM
Same reason why KAT shot from 40 down 4 with 2 minutes left.

Idiots.

Bad coaching?  Edwards has a chance to be a superstar. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on April 30, 2022, 08:52:39 AM
Sadly my guarantee of the Wolves beating Memphis comes up short. Should have won 5 out of 6 games lmao.



Don’t beat yourself up. None of us bet the house on your advice.

Nothing unusual here. This is exactly what almost all young, inexperienced teams do when the bright lights go on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 30, 2022, 09:54:23 AM
Don’t beat yourself up. None of us bet the house on your advice.

Nothing unusual here. This is exactly what almost all young, inexperienced teams do when the bright lights go on.

Actually I made a lot of money on this series haha

Betting on Minnesota collapses is a wonderful get rich quick scheme.

I live bet pounded Memphis in all 3 meltdown.

Up next the Wild. Unfortunately hockey is much tougher to live bet and identify the proper value/impending doom.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 11:45:30 AM
What are the Bucks' chances without Middleton?  I'm wondering if Giannis will have to average:  40, 15, and 8?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 12:17:49 PM
3 careless early turns from Giannis.  He needs to calm down. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 12:32:15 PM
Horrific quarter for the Bucks.  7 turns?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2022, 12:34:09 PM
Easy to see how the C’s have the best defense in the league. The amount of times they grab, slap, and hold a ball handler across the arm that goes uncalled is hysterical.

Bucks can’t win this without Middleton. C’s just ignoring Wes defensively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 12:35:57 PM
Easy to see how the C’s have the best defense in the league. The amount of times they grab, slap, and hold a ball handler across the arm that goes uncalled is hysterical.

Bucks can’t win this without Middleton. C’s just ignoring Wes defensively.

They do get away with a lot of garbage.  Maybe that quick 5 from Portis gets the Bucks going.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2022, 12:44:21 PM
How upset would you guys be if Milwaukee wasn't leading?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 12:47:23 PM
How upset would you guys be if Milwaukee wasn't leading?

Who me?  I'm not upset at all.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 12:52:24 PM
I'm a little surprised Giannis is bringing the ball up so much.  I think he doesn't need to exert unnecessary energy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 01, 2022, 01:12:43 PM
What are the Bucks' chances without Middleton?  I'm wondering if Giannis will have to average:  40, 15, and 8?

Lol if a player ever needs to average 40/15/8 to win basketball games, that is a really bad team they are on.


Hint. THe Bucks are not a really bad team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
I know Embiid and Jokic are excellent also, but Giannis should be MVP again. I don't think any player is as important to a top tier team as he is.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2022, 01:13:48 PM
I'm a little surprised Giannis is bringing the ball up so much.  I think he doesn't need to exert unnecessary energy.

Agreed and it doesn’t play to his strengths offensively. But he’s doing an incredible job of drawing eyeballs and hitting the open man, and guys are hitting the shot.

Great first half. Going to have to win this series on the defensive end. Refs letting both sides play.

Limit the turnovers and offensive rebounds and they’ll be in great shape.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 01:17:35 PM
Lol if a player ever needs to average 40/15/8 to win basketball games, that is a really bad team they are on.


Hint. THe Bucks are not a really bad team.

Great half for Allen and Connaughton.  Giannis picked his game up the final 3 mins of the half.  Every time he gets the ball in the wide-post the Bucks get a quality shot.

The Celtics were awful in the 2Q.  You can't expect them to kick the ball away or for their two best players to shoot that poorly.  I can't stand their hacking and moving screens, hopefully the Bucks steal this game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 01, 2022, 01:20:17 PM
One half of basketball is too early to draw conclusions, but they didn't win the Nets series because of their efforts in the half court offense, and it hasn't been good tonight either. Losing a quarter in which you turn the Bucks over 7 times isn't going to win you many games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 01:36:50 PM
Crazy the amount of lay-ups Giannis has missed today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 01:47:16 PM
Very poor offensive quarter for the Bucks.  Had a great opportunity to seize the game.  Hopefully they get it together before it's too late.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 01:53:07 PM
Sweet Jesus.  Those last two fouls for Giannis cannot happen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 01, 2022, 02:03:14 PM
Sweet Jesus.  Those last two fouls for Giannis cannot happen.

Stupid plays, and it means the Bucks are going to need to white-knuckle this a bit, but that was otherwise a successful quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:14:33 PM
Stupid plays, and it means the Bucks are going to need to white-knuckle this a bit, but that was otherwise a successful quarter.

The Bucks have gotten a nice contribution from Carter today.  Very solid job defensively. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:20:31 PM
HELLO!! Does thar count as a dime and a rebound for Giannis??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2022, 02:22:29 PM
Giannis does crap I did in my family room on our 6 foot hoop when I was like a 5'10" 8th grader
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2022, 02:23:52 PM
Giannis switched his pivot foot on that play, but it was still cool.

He’s been awesome, and the Bucks have been very impressive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 01, 2022, 02:24:32 PM
The Bucks have gotten a nice contribution from Carter today.  Very solid job defensively.

Several points in every game I wonder why the Nets couldn't find a use for that

Also: Nets going to pay 8 figures for Jevon this year https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1520826448042364928?t=g7OunQ6MBRi8tmBXisgqDQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1520826448042364928?t=g7OunQ6MBRi8tmBXisgqDQ&s=19)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:28:49 PM
Giannis switched his pivot foot on that play, but it was still cool.

He’s been awesome, and the Bucks have been very impressive.

Giannis has had a poor shooting game but also has gotten fouled a ton and they haven't called it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 02:37:24 PM
Yes it does.  You are clearly in denial.  And the biggest reason why it was a poor decision is that Brooklyn doesn't defend and hasn't all season.  Boston on the other hand is one of the best defensive teams.  The Bucks got duped and apparently you did as well Fluffy.


😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:37:30 PM
Good win for the Bucks and a total team win.  Boston's best players had a rough shooting game but the overall defense was very solid.  Holiday and Portis we're really good as well. 

I think the fact that Boston got almost nothing inside was big.  Lopez was very good rim protecting.  It's just one game but it was nice to see everyone contribute.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2022, 02:38:33 PM
Awesome game. Thought Wes and Carter (especially) would be too small to be effective defensively, but both were great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:39:44 PM

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Fluffy you instigate stuff for no reason as usual.  I don't mind being wrong and it's one game in a best of 7 series.  They easily would have beaten Brooklyn anyway.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2022, 02:42:56 PM
Awesome game. Thought Wes and Carter (especially) would be too small to be effective defensively, but both were great.

As a rookie undrafted FA, Wes was guarding LeBron in the playoffs. He is one of the least of my worries.

And Carter is only in the NBA because of his defensive prowess.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 01, 2022, 02:48:01 PM
As a rookie undrafted FA, Wes was guarding LeBron in the playoffs. He is one of the least of my worries.

And Carter is only in the NBA because of his defensive prowess.

Right. Wes is now a 35 year old having had an Achilles tear.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 02:57:32 PM
I've got Warriors in 6. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 03:04:49 PM
Fluffy you instigate stuff for no reason as usual.  I don't mind being wrong and it's one game in a best of 7 series.  They easily would have beaten Brooklyn anyway.

Hold on a second.  You posted this three days after people stopped talking about it.


You do now.  Terrible decision by the Bucks.  They bought a silly media narrative and threw away home court to a very good team. 

And you are going to get on me for instigating??  LOL.

Look, it was always a dumb take.  Boston may win the series but veteran NBA teams win on the road in the playoffs.  Boston could steal one back in Milwaukee too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2022, 03:10:23 PM
Right. Wes is now a 35 year old having had an Achilles tear.

Who is still an outstanding defensive player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 03:12:44 PM
Man, if I had a fall like Morant's, they'd be taking me out on a stretcher.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 03:19:57 PM
I've got Warriors in 6.

That will require them to start making some of the wide open 3's. Klay has missed 3 wide open ones in the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 03:31:00 PM
That will require them to start making some of the wide open 3's. Klay has missed 3 wide open ones in the 1st quarter.

if Memphis pounds it inside all series Golden State will have to play near their top level to win.  They have a significant advantage inside.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 03:34:16 PM
https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1520851509109473280?s=20&t=xhvpxMLt3erxA4HDmcM45A

https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1520852002808467458?s=20&t=xhvpxMLt3erxA4HDmcM45A
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
I don't quite have Poole's range on the court.  :(
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2022, 03:36:13 PM
https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1520851509109473280?s=20&t=xhvpxMLt3erxA4HDmcM45A

https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1520852002808467458?s=20&t=xhvpxMLt3erxA4HDmcM45A

Lopez was really outstanding today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 03:55:18 PM
Officiating has been pretty piss poor in the GSW v Memphis game so far.

They seem to let it be very physical with no whistles. Then some really really late whistles, and touch fouls on Klay, Poole, Curry etc.

The refs shouldn't be allowed to ref another game. That was the biggest BS flagrant 2 ever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 03:59:22 PM
Wow.  Shocked that was an F-2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 04:00:01 PM
Wow.  Shocked that was an F-2.

No way that is an F-2. One of the refs must have money on this game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:01:18 PM
Wow.  Shocked that was an F-2.


Yeah they didn't show that second view until after.  Pretty obvious after seeing that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 04:03:30 PM

Yeah they didn't show that second view until after.  Pretty obvious after seeing that.

I think you are the only person that thinks that. There were harder fouls that weren't even called in the Bucks/Celtics game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:05:23 PM
He slapped down, hitting him in the face, then grabbed his jersey on the follow through.  I think that was pretty obvious.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
BTW, Morant is such a joy to watch. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:08:04 PM
Did be intentionally try to hit him in the face?  I don't see it and I'm not a Green fan.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 04:08:44 PM
He slapped down, hitting him in the face, then grabbed his jersey on the follow through.  I think that was pretty obvious.

For a F1 yes. Not an F2. It's an absurd F2 call. He was swiping down at the ball for a block. F2 is supposed to be egregious and unnecessary.

Chris Paul intentionally kicked a guy in the nuts, in a way that was not a basketball play, and it was only an F1 (league reviewed after no call in game).

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:12:26 PM
Morant should attack the rim a la Wade '03 at will.  He can either score over the top or drive and kick anytime he wants.  I'd like to see him add the T-Parker floater
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:15:50 PM
For a F1 yes. Not an F2. It's an absurd F2 call. He was swiping down at the ball for a block. F2 is supposed to be egregious and unnecessary.

It was both.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 04:20:02 PM
It was both.

Believe what you like. But this game is an example of why people think the NBA is rigged. The refs are letting the game be physical...but

Curry: 3 fouls
Klay: sat for a long time with 3 fouls
Payton II: 3 fouls
and Green ejected on a normal basketball play

All in the 1st half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:24:30 PM
Curry is heating up.  You would think Memphis needs this one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:26:59 PM
Believe what you like. But this game is an example of why people think the NBA is rigged. The refs are letting the game be physical...but

Curry: 3 fouls
Klay: sat for a long time with 3 fouls
Payton II: 3 fouls
and Green ejected on a normal basketball play

All in the 1st half.


Honestly calling that a "normal basketball play" tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

Really the rigged arguments are just laughable.  No teams remaining from the three largest television markets, and the league is rigging against the team from the fourth largest...one that draws huge viewing numbers...for what?  Memphis?

People who think the NBA is rigged are dumb.  The refereeing is fine. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:32:01 PM
Hard to believe Morant and Curry for the most part were not heavily recruited by major D-1 schools.  But with Morant it's pretty dumbfounding when you watch his ridiculous speed and hoppability.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

Honestly calling that a "normal basketball play" tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

Really the rigged arguments are just laughable.  No teams remaining from the three largest television markets, and the league is rigging against the team from the fourth largest...one that draws huge viewing numbers...for what?  Memphis?

People who think the NBA is rigged are dumb.  The refereeing is fine.

Why do you continue to insult people personally Fluffy?  It's bizarre.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:50:54 PM
Why do you continue to insult people personally Fluffy?  It's bizarre.

You can put me on ignore if you need your safe space.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2022, 04:52:10 PM
Why are you offended?   He expresses his opinion about poor thought processes and bad hot takes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:52:58 PM
You can put me on ignore if you need your safe space.

I don't care at all, I just think it's weird. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 04:55:15 PM
Why are you offended?   He expresses his opinion about poor thought processes and bad hot takes.

In my opinion he is usually the one with bad hot takes. Mine is consistent with almost all media right now.

Not to mention, Poole was hit in the face on two consecutive plays where the defender wound up first. Neither was even whistled as a common foul. Neither will be reviewed for an upgrade to F1...why, because that happens in basketball.

I've been hit in the face like that dozens of time playing basketball, never once would I consider it ejection worthy.

The grab of the jersey was an F1.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:57:14 PM
Why are you offended?   He expresses his opinion about poor thought processes and bad hot takes.

I'm not offended, I just think it's in poor taste and totally unnecessary.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 04:58:29 PM
I'm not offended, I just think it's in poor taste and totally unnecessary.

Want me to ship you a teddy bear?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 04:59:31 PM
Memphis might want to begin playing the 4Q.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:03:17 PM
Why are you offended?   He expresses his opinion about poor thought processes and bad hot takes.

Also, I've dunked in a pickup game. I've heard that makes one an unquestionable authority around here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:03:36 PM
Want me to ship you a teddy bear?

No thanks.  I have my dog and a lot of stuffed animals.  I guess you're unhinged for some reason.  No worries.  I was trying to help you out because insulting people doesn't amplify any of your arguments.  But I am also fine with people bitter at the world.  Maybe try that when you need to vent.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 05:03:55 PM
In my opinion he is usually the one with bad hot takes. Mine is consistent with almost all media right now.

Not to mention, Poole was hit in the face on two consecutive plays where the defender wound up first. Neither was even whistled as a common foul. Neither will be reviewed for an upgrade to F1...why, because that happens in basketball.

I've been hit in the face like that dozens of time playing basketball, never once would I consider it ejection worthy.

The grab of the jersey was an F1.


You clearly don’t understand the rule book and why it was called. I tried to explain. Hint…It wasn’t just that he was hit in the face.

Furthermore you have a history of complaining about the refs in ways I don’t think are accurate. I find you are watching different games than I am.

And then you bring up rigged nonsense…
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:04:34 PM
Also, I've dunked in a pickup game. I've heard that makes one an unquestionable authority around here.

Really?  COOL.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 05:05:02 PM
No thanks.  I have my dog and a lot of stuffed animals.  I guess you're unhinged for some reason.  No worries.  I was trying to help you out because insulting people doesn't amplify any of your arguments.  But I am also fine with people bitter at the world.  Maybe try that when you need to vent.

I am hardly bitter. Stay away from the armchair psychology too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:07:50 PM
I'm rooting for Memphis here because I think it will make for a better series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:10:46 PM
I am hardly bitter. Stay away from the armchair psychology too.

That retort didn't go well for you Fluffy.   

Maybe watch Samuel L. Jackson vs Brad in that Pulp Fiction scene.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:12:00 PM

You clearly don’t understand the rule book and why it was called. I tried to explain. Hint…It wasn’t just that he was hit in the face.

Furthermore you have a history of complaining about the refs in ways I don’t think are accurate. I find you are watching different games than I am.

And then you bring up rigged nonsense…

On the underlined. We are in agreement. You have a history of defending refs no matter what. We see the game differently.

Regarding the bolded. I didn't say I believe that. I said this is an example of "why" people say it is rigged.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:18:58 PM
Heck of a game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:19:29 PM
Heck of a game.

Yeah it is. Morant has been amazing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:25:27 PM
Wow.  Total clock mismanagement there on both ends of the floor for Memphis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:28:54 PM
That was off Memphis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:30:00 PM
That was off Memphis.

Definitely. Thought it was even pretty clear live.

That should be reviewable.

But, bigger. How does Klay miss 2 FTs there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 01, 2022, 05:30:57 PM
Memphis getting all the calls

That was a brutal miss
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
Definitely. Thought it was even pretty clear live.

That should be reviewable.

But, bigger. How does Klay miss 2 FTs there.


Yes. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:32:07 PM
Vander Blue would have made that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2022, 05:32:45 PM
Winning on the road without Draymond. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:32:55 PM
Vander Blue would have made that.

Damn straight!

Tough loss for Memphis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Winning on the road without Draymond.

Ya....not sure the Grizz can overcome that. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:40:30 PM
Really?  COOL.

The statement was made in jest, to lighten things up again.

But yes, I have dunked in pickup games. Somehow, once, many moons ago I managed to miraculously convert an alley-oop (not sure it was planned or if it was just a bad miss into just the right place at the right time, but I'll take it).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 01, 2022, 05:48:01 PM
Da reel question heer iz watt made Poole sew good and y kouldant Woj keep the dude at hom, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 01, 2022, 05:51:44 PM
Da reel question heer iz watt made Poole sew good and y kouldant Woj kkep did dude at hom, hey?

Poole didn’t stay home in high school, finishing at La Lumiere.  He also took one official visit and then committed shortly thereafter to Michigan.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 05:58:23 PM
Ya....not sure the Grizz can overcome that.

The problem for the Grizz is everything went their way. Huge games from Morant and Jackson.

If you told me Curry and Klay would go 14-39, and Green was ejected in the 1st half. I'd have Memphis by double digits.

Not sure things go as well again for them this series.

But it shows how dangerous GSW can be with Poole now as a third head of the monster.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 06:01:24 PM
The problem for the Grizz is everything went their way. Huge games from Morant and Jackson.

If you told me Curry and Klay would go 14-39, and Green was ejected in the 1st half. I'd have Memphis by double digits.

Not sure things go as well again for them this series.

But it shows how dangerous GSW can be with Poole now as a third head of the monster.

Absolutely.  He appears to be the real deal.  Tremendous shooter with supreme blow by speed off the dribble.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 01, 2022, 06:01:40 PM
Sew UM paid more NIL scratch, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2022, 06:01:54 PM

Yeah they didn't show that second view until after.  Pretty obvious after seeing that.


I didn't see the game so I just checked the replay. That was an F-2 eight days out of the week. The accidental hand to the face is a normal F-1 call, but grabbing a jersey to pull a guy to the ground is an easy F-2 call. It is NOT a basketball play.

It was both "unnecessary and excessive", which is the literal definition of an F-2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 06:35:01 PM

I didn't see the game so I just checked the replay. That was an F-2 eight days out of the week. The accidental hand to the face is a normal F-1 call, but grabbing a jersey to pull a guy to the ground is an easy F-2 call. It is NOT a basketball play.

It was both "unnecessary and excessive", which is the literal definition of an F-2.

So a jersey grab is an auto F-2 now?  I didn't think that was the case.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 01, 2022, 06:36:51 PM
So a jersey grab is an auto F-2 now?  I didn't think that was the case.

No.  It was how Draymond swung, that he hit him in the face, grabbed his jersey and pulled him down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 01, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
I didn't.  think the hit to the head was an F2.

Pulling someone to the ground by the jersey is.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 01, 2022, 06:51:38 PM
No.  It was how Draymond swung, that he hit him in the face, grabbed his jersey and pulled him down.

I'm not a Draymond Stan, but I thought he got jersey, realized what was happening, and prevented a much worse spill
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 01, 2022, 07:03:26 PM
I'm not a Draymond Stan, but I thought he got jersey, realized what was happening, and prevented a much worse spill

That's how I saw it too. But the rules don't really allow for refs to read into the action.

I do think there needs to be some examination of the flagrant rules, and the latitude given to the replay officials. There are a lot of basketball plays that get upgraded because it looks worse in slow motion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2022, 07:05:13 PM
How does Klay miss 2 FTs there.

And Steph bricked the most wide-open 3 he's probably had in two months.

Which makes them ... I don't know ... human?

But hey, Klay hit the huge 3 to put GS ahead to stay, and Steph made a great defensive play on Ja to preserve the win. Great players so often find a way.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 08:10:55 PM
And Steph bricked the most wide-open 3 he's probably had in two months.

Which makes them ... I don't know ... human?

But hey, Klay hit the huge 3 to put GS ahead to stay, and Steph made a great defensive play on Ja to preserve the win. Great players so often find a way.

I think Jenkins made a mistake waiting to get Ja back in the game in the 4th.  I also though Melton played too many mins over Bane even though he played well. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2022, 08:41:52 PM
I think Jenkins made a mistake waiting to get Ja back in the game in the 4th.  I also though Melton played too many mins over Bane even though he played well.

Maybe. We’ll never know.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 08:54:36 PM
Maybe. We’ll never know.

If I was Jenkins I would pound it inside and attack the paint much more regularly.  Brooks and Bane had rough performances but this is a very talented team.  Morant can get a decent look at will.  You establish the interior and play more inside out. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2022, 09:11:08 PM
But that is not the modern game and you can only trade 3 for 2 so often before you lose.

When is the last time you saw an NBA team consistently run a post up game, a la Ewing or Olajuwon?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 01, 2022, 09:26:14 PM
That's how I saw it too. But the rules don't really allow for refs to read into the action.

I do think there needs to be some examination of the flagrant rules, and the latitude given to the replay officials. There are a lot of basketball plays that get upgraded because it looks worse in slow motion.

I think there is.  Cause its a judgement call reviewed by replay.  Many smart people in the basketball social media space called it a reputation ejection, including Draymond himself after the game, which is just lame. 

Especially since, as mentioned, Chris Paul has a reputation for being dirty and he's gotten away with far worse in the playoffs.

For me the most egregious call was the OOB off Memphis late in the game that they never reviewed and just called a jump.  Baffling. 

But hell of a defensive stand against Morant by Curry and then Klay late.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 09:36:13 PM
And Steph bricked the most wide-open 3 he's probably had in two months.

Which makes them ... I don't know ... human?

But hey, Klay hit the huge 3 to put GS ahead to stay, and Steph made a great defensive play on Ja to preserve the win. Great players so often find a way.

Agreed all around.

The above is why what makes all these guys great isn't just the physical, but the mental aspect of the game. They are great at just letting things go and on to the next big play.

I need to get better at that in life.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 09:37:23 PM
But that is not the modern game and you can only trade 3 for 2 so often before you lose.

When is the last time you saw an NBA team consistently run a post up game, a la Ewing or Olajuwon?

You're right Tower but I disagree with the idea that you shouldn't capitalize on a clear advantage.  Duncan and Shaq played in the post.  I understand taking tons of threes but if you can establish the interior those triples become far easier.  If Golden State is playing Green at the 5 there's zero reason a good post player can't dominate that match-up.  Imagine Green trying to guard Shaq?  There's nothing wrong with eviscerating teams inside.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2022, 10:08:42 PM
You're right Tower but I disagree with the idea that you shouldn't capitalize on a clear advantage.  Duncan and Shaq played in the post.  I understand taking tons of threes but if you can establish the interior those triples become far easier.  If Golden State is playing Green at the 5 there's zero reason a good post player can't dominate that match-up.  Imagine Green trying to guard Shaq?  There's nothing wrong with eviscerating teams inside.

In the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals, the Bulls often used Rodman to defend Shaq. He did a heck of a job, and took both Shaq and the Magic out of their games. Rodman got in Shaq's head, too.

Defensively, Green is pretty similar to Rodman -- tough, smart, aggressive, irritating, knows how to use his lower body for leverage.

So there are reasons a good post won't dominate him ... and there aren't any Shaqs or Duncans walking through that door, anyway.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 10:39:54 PM
In the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals, the Bulls often used Rodman to defend Shaq. He did a heck of a job, and took both Shaq and the Magic out of their games. Rodman got in Shaq's head, too.

Defensively, Green is pretty similar to Rodman -- tough, smart, aggressive, irritating, knows how to use his lower body for leverage.

So there are reasons a good post won't dominate him ... and there aren't any Shaqs or Duncans walking through that door, anyway.

I was pretty young but Rodman was a total freak of nature.  Phil Jackson has said he's the greatest athlete he ever coached.  Green is a heck of a player but I would not compare him to Rodman. Shaq was also a very young player during that stretch.  He would frankly obliterate Draymond Green and it would be ugly. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2022, 10:47:27 PM
I was pretty young but Rodman was a total freak of nature.  Phil Jackson has said he's the greatest athlete he ever coached.  Green is a heck of a player but I would not compare him to Rodman. Shaq was also a very young player during that stretch.  He would frankly obliterate Draymond Green and it would be ugly.

Green once admitted that "Shaq would've f--king murdered me on the block," while also saying that him and Curry would have eviscerated Shaq in the pick and roll.

It would have been an interesting matchup, but likely would have just turned into trading 2's (Shaq) for 3's (Curry), with reserves using 18 fouls to make Shaq miss FTs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 11:04:53 PM
Green once admitted that "Shaq would've f--king murdered me on the block," while also saying that him and Curry would have eviscerated Shaq in the pick and roll.

It would have been an interesting matchup, but likely would have just turned into trading 2's (Shaq) for 3's (Curry), with reserves using 18 fouls to make Shaq miss FTs.

I felt Shaq was treated unfairly after he starting carving dudes to shreds.  He'd get hacked constantly, while at the same time was called for a lot of touch fouls.  It's not entirely analogous to Giannis, but to a degree he gets hammered consistently as well with a questionable whistle. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2022, 11:21:57 PM
There is no Shaq in the NBA anymore.  Ben Wallace was not bigger than Draymond.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 01, 2022, 11:27:11 PM
There is no Shaq in the NBA anymore.  Ben Wallace was not bigger than Draymond.

True. Shaq is in my top 10. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 05:07:59 AM
If I was Jenkins I would pound it inside and attack the paint much more regularly.  Brooks and Bane had rough performances but this is a very talented team.  Morant can get a decent look at will.  You establish the interior and play more inside out. 


Running offense through a post player clogs the lane too much for your best offensive weapon. Didn’t I see that Ja score more points in the lane than any other player this year?  Why would then play inside out with a post?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 05:09:47 AM
Remember that the older post players had the advantage of playing in the illegal defense era.  They never saw anything resembling a zone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 07:21:57 AM
I was pretty young but Rodman was a total freak of nature.  Phil Jackson has said he's the greatest athlete he ever coached.  Green is a heck of a player but I would not compare him to Rodman. Shaq was also a very young player during that stretch.  He would frankly obliterate Draymond Green and it would be ugly.

Neither of us can "prove" anything about whether or not Shaq would have "frankly obliterated" Green. It's your opinion.'

It's my opinion as someone who saw Rodman play hundreds and hundreds of games that, defensively, Green has many similarities to Rodman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 02, 2022, 07:42:53 AM
Neither of us can "prove" anything about whether or not Shaq would have "frankly obliterated" Green. It's your opinion.'

It's my opinion as someone who saw Rodman play hundreds and hundreds of games that, defensively, Green has many similarities to Rodman.

George Mikan would eat all 3 of those guys for breakfast.  Same with Bevo Francis
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 02, 2022, 08:40:19 AM
There is no Shaq in the NBA anymore.  Ben Wallace was not bigger than Draymond.

I'm not sure if this is teal, but Ben Wallace was 6'9 and Draymond is 6'6.  Thats not insignificant.  Not to mention a weight difference.

The Rodman/Green comparison I do agree with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 02, 2022, 08:53:10 AM
Giannis switched his pivot foot on that play, but it was still cool.

He’s been awesome, and the Bucks have been very impressive.

Perfectly legal play.  The ball is released before the pivot foot lands.  For more, see link:


https://youtu.be/TsFX4l0DjCg
 (https://youtu.be/TsFX4l0DjCg)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 10:16:28 AM
Perfectly legal play.  The ball is released before the pivot foot lands.

Just watched it 10 more times. Every time, it looks to me like he establishes his right foot as his pivot foot when he picks up his dribble and is confronted by Williams; he then moves around Williams with a massive step onto his left foot. His right foot is off the ground when he throws the ball off the backboard.

But it wasn't called, and that's all that matters. It was an exciting play that helped the Bucks win their playoff opener.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 02, 2022, 10:36:51 AM
Just watched it 10 more times. Every time, it looks to me like he establishes his right foot as his pivot foot when he picks up his dribble and is confronted by Williams; he then moves around Williams with a massive step onto his left foot. His right foot is off the ground when he throws the ball off the backboard.

But it wasn't called, and that's all that matters. It was an exciting play that helped the Bucks win their playoff opener.

I think the rule is that he can lift that foot. It just can't hit the ground again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 10:38:33 AM
I think the rule is that he can lift that foot. It just can't hit the ground again.

Maybe evolved from the eurostep? I'd like to see that rule in writing, because I just took a quick look and couldn't find it.

At the college and HS level, I've seen a lot less obvious pivot-foot-switching called traveling.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 02, 2022, 10:41:47 AM
Just watched it 10 more times. Every time, it looks to me like he establishes his right foot as his pivot foot when he picks up his dribble and is confronted by Williams; he then moves around Williams with a massive step onto his left foot. His right foot is off the ground when he throws the ball off the backboard.

But it wasn't called, and that's all that matters. It was an exciting play that helped the Bucks win their playoff opener.

It was definitely a travel, but like you say it wasn't called (and pretty much isn't called in modern NBA), and it was an exciting play.

In the discussions regarding older players and modern. Older players, that was called a travel 10/10. Modern players, there are a dozen of those plays a game (feet/traveling, not alley-oop to themselves).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Maybe evolved from the eurostep? I'd like to see that rule in writing, because I just took a quick look and couldn't find it.

At the college and HS level, I've seen a lot less obvious pivot-foot-switching called traveling.

Agreed, and I could be wrong. But that's the explanation that I heard yesterday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 02, 2022, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe evolved from the eurostep? I'd like to see that rule in writing, because I just took a quick look and couldn't find it.

At the college and HS level, I've seen a lot less obvious pivot-foot-switching called traveling.

Found this explanation:

NBA rulebook section XIII, paragraph d:

"If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball."

It is explicitly allowed to raise your pivot foot. What's forbidden is to bring it back down again before shooting/passing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 02, 2022, 10:59:22 AM
It was definitely a travel, but like you say it wasn't called (and pretty much isn't called in modern NBA), and it was an exciting play.


It's definitely not a travel.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:02:32 AM
Neither of us can "prove" anything about whether or not Shaq would have "frankly obliterated" Green. It's your opinion.'

It's my opinion as someone who saw Rodman play hundreds and hundreds of games that, defensively, Green has many similarities to Rodman.

Green has some of Rodman's defensive qualities, but he's not the entire package.  Rodman is maybe the only player I have ever seen that could guard all five positions well.  He had incredible lateral quickness, upper and lower body strength, anticipation. transition speed, and kangaroo hops.  Green is nowhere near the help defender or transition defender Rodman was or of course rebounder.  He also really never had to play against quality post players.  The tape doesn't lie, Rodman was a an absolute freak and generational talent.  Had the guy applied himself he would have been far better offensively as well
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 02, 2022, 11:05:52 AM
Anyway you cut, I’m glad they didn’t peddle his azz
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:08:17 AM

Running offense through a post player clogs the lane too much for your best offensive weapon. Didn’t I see that Ja score more points in the lane than any other player this year?  Why would then play inside out with a post?

Because Golden State does not have a rim protector and you can create open space by attacking the paint.  It wouldn't change Ja's opportunities at the rim.  I don't see Memphis beating Golden State in a shoot out.  However if they attack relentlessly with their size,, and can dominate the paint with deuces and FT's, they have a better chance of winning imo. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 11:14:22 AM
Well you should email the coach and let him know that the way he won 3 of 4 against GSW in the regular season, and getting the #2 seed in the process, should be changed based on your watching one game in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:20:22 AM
Well you should email the coach and let him know that the way he won 3 of 4 against GSW in the regular season, and getting the #2 seed in the process, should be changed based on your watching one game in the playoffs.

Fluffy, you're not debating my point.  Do you honestly think Memphis can win this series if it's a shoot out?  Do you really they can out triple Curry, Thompson, Poole, and company?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2022, 11:24:36 AM
Because Golden State does not have a rim protector and you can create open space by attacking the paint.  It wouldn't change Ja's opportunities at the rim.  I don't see Memphis beating Golden State in a shoot out.  However if they attack relentlessly with their size,, and can dominate the paint with deuces and FT's, they have a better chance of winning imo.

You are overrating the importance of a rim protector.

Draymond is a great defensive player. Looney is an outstanding defensive player. There is way more to defense than blocking shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 11:25:28 AM
Fluffy, you're not debating my point.  Do you honestly think Memphis can win this series if it's a shoot out?  Do you really they can out triple Curry, Thompson, Poole, and company?

I think they should do what got them there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:37:49 AM
I think they should do what got them there.

It's a pretty bad sign for Memphis that they made 16 threes and lost. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 02, 2022, 11:42:21 AM
It's definitely not a travel.

Watch it in slow motion. It is actually a pretty absurd travel, but more difficult to see in real time. He picks up his dribble with his weight actually on his left foot. He then steps onto his right to square up. In the NBA, they let you get away with this two steps being establishing the pivot foot (so being generous the right foot).

He then lifts his right foot to push it back a few inches to gain leverage. Even with the generous NBA rules, he now has to shoot or pass.

He now steps through with his left, and lifts his right foot again.

That's a lot of steps.

Like I said, this is typical NBA type moves in the modern era (and there are far more egregious non-calls on travels), but it is actually 4 or 5 steps. In the end it doesn't matter too, it wasn't called and the game was never in doubt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 02, 2022, 11:47:43 AM
Green has some of Rodman's defensive qualities, but he's not the entire package.  Rodman is maybe the only player I have ever seen that could guard all five positions well.  He had incredible lateral quickness, upper and lower body strength, anticipation. transition speed, and kangaroo hops.  Green is nowhere near the help defender or transition defender Rodman was or of course rebounder.  He also really never had to play against quality post players.  The tape doesn't lie, Rodman was a an absolute freak and generational talent.  Had the guy applied himself he would have been far better offensively as well

I know you live out there, but do you even watch the Warriors?  Draymond is the key cog in very good defensive Warriors team and he routinely guards all 5 positions, and does it very well.  4 first team All-Defense, 2 2nd teams, the only time he didn't was the COVID year.  Add in a DPOY.  He'd be first team All Defense this year if he played more than half the season.  The fact that he will likely still be 2nd team speaks to his impact on a Warriors team that was the best defensive team in the league when he was in the lineup.

Draymond never had to defend Shaq, but Rodman didn't play in an era of 6'9-7' players who could step out to the 3 pt line or go inside.  This isn't slighting Rodman but just pointing out a ridiculous undersell of Draymond.  He's trending towards no doubt HOF selection despite averaging under 9 pts a game for his career.

You are overrating the importance of a rim protector.

Draymond is a great defensive player. Looney is an outstanding defensive player. There is way more to defense than blocking shots.

Is this just adjective variation or are you saying Looney is a better defensive player than Draymond?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 11:50:07 AM
It's a pretty bad sign for Memphis that they made 16 threes and lost. 

Right. So why would you think the solution is to take less 3s?  Their problem is on the defensive end.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 12:08:09 PM
Found this explanation:

NBA rulebook section XIII, paragraph d:

"If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball."

It is explicitly allowed to raise your pivot foot. What's forbidden is to bring it back down again before shooting/passing.

I believe he established two pivot feet on the play, and if rules were followed he would have been called for a violation. I'd love to hear Steve Javie discuss this while watching it in slo-mo, because I find it interesting. But we've already spent too much time discussing a non-call that didn't even decide a game, and yes I know I'm the one who brought it up. Have a good one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 12:13:22 PM
Green has some of Rodman's defensive qualities, but he's not the entire package.  Rodman is maybe the only player I have ever seen that could guard all five positions well.  He had incredible lateral quickness, upper and lower body strength, anticipation. transition speed, and kangaroo hops.  Green is nowhere near the help defender or transition defender Rodman was or of course rebounder.  He also really never had to play against quality post players.  The tape doesn't lie, Rodman was a an absolute freak and generational talent.  Had the guy applied himself he would have been far better offensively as well

This part of the discussion had nothing to do with defending every position. You said Green couldn't possibly defend a dominant big. I happen to think he has shown he can, and in fact he did well when matched up against the reigning NBA MVP in the previous round.

But sure, defending all 5 positions ... Green has shown he can do that, too.

I nonetheless would rate Rodman a rung higher because I believe he was a little more athletic and, of course, the greatest pound-for-pound rebounder ever. And as we saw from watching Marquette this past season, your defensive possession isn't over until you get the rebound.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2022, 12:59:07 PM
This part of the discussion started had nothing to do with defending every position. You said Green couldn't possibly defend a dominant big. I happen to think he has shown he can, and in fact he did well when matched up against the reigning NBA MVP in the previous round.

But sure, defending all 5 positions ... Green has shown he can do that, too.

I nonetheless would rate Rodman a rung higher because I believe he was a little more athletic and, of course, the greatest pound-for-pound rebounder ever. And as we saw from watching Marquette this past season, your defensive possession isn't over until you get the rebound.

Green will be a HoF'er. He should definitely be in the same 'wing' as Rodman.

And not only can he defend every position, he can and has played every position on offense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 02, 2022, 01:09:49 PM
Rodman was a better offensive player than his reputation too. He was a double digit scorer his second year in the league and the next year lead the NBA in EFG.

He just didn’t have to score much on those Bills teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 02, 2022, 01:28:05 PM
Rodman was a better offensive player than his reputation too. He was a double digit scorer his second year in the league and the next year lead the NBA in EFG.

He just didn’t have to score much on those Bills teams.

Josh Allen to Stephon Diggs took care of the scoring.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 02, 2022, 02:00:28 PM
I'm not sure if this is teal, but Ben Wallace was 6'9 and Draymond is 6'6.  Thats not insignificant.  Not to mention a weight difference.

The Rodman/Green comparison I do agree with.
Ben Wallace was listed at 6'9.   Ben Wallace is not 6'9.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 02:09:39 PM
Rodman was a better offensive player than his reputation too. He was a double digit scorer his second year in the league and the next year lead the NBA in EFG.

Jackson said Rodman knew and executed the triangle offense better than anybody else on the team. He was a great screen-setter and offensive rebounder.

It was fun having him on those Bulls teams; his personality was a great counter to the personalities of Jordan, Pippen and Jackson.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 02, 2022, 02:10:39 PM
Ben Wallace was listed at 6'9.   Ben Wallace is not 6'9.

6’9 with the Afro.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/VHYSZ-TjPUfyafa5OGo_NAUCV4yukki-MwVfmXJB39ZOX3NszLfDwdz54TjocdyxnSuhiR_VC151)

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 02, 2022, 04:19:58 PM
Watch it in slow motion. It is actually a pretty absurd travel, but more difficult to see in real time. He picks up his dribble with his weight actually on his left foot. He then steps onto his right to square up. In the NBA, they let you get away with this two steps being establishing the pivot foot (so being generous the right foot).

The NBA gather rule.  Glad you are familiar with it.  By rule, a player is allowed to do exactly what Giannis did.  In this case, the right foot is correctly considered the pivot foot.  No travel so far.

Watch it in slow motion. It is actually a pretty absurd travel, but more difficult to see in real time. He picks up his dribble with his weight actually on his left foot. He then steps onto his right to square up. In the NBA, they let you get away with this two steps being establishing the pivot foot (so being generous the right foot).

He then lifts his right foot to push it back a few inches to gain leverage. Even with the generous NBA rules, he now has to shoot or pass.

He now steps through with his left, and lifts his right foot again.

That's a lot of steps.

Like I said, this is typical NBA type moves in the modern era (and there are far more egregious non-calls on travels), but it is actually 4 or 5 steps. In the end it doesn't matter too, it wasn't called and the game was never in doubt.

After reviewing the slow motion replay, I see one spot where Giannis might move his pivot foot.

The gather to establish his pivot foot as his right foot was perfectly legal.

The step through move was legal if the pivot foot doesn't move beforehand.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 02, 2022, 06:25:42 PM
The NBA gather rule.  Glad you are familiar with it.  By rule, a player is allowed to do exactly what Giannis did.  In this case, the right foot is correctly considered the pivot foot.  No travel so far.

After reviewing the slow motion replay, I see one spot where Giannis might move his pivot foot.

The gather to establish his pivot foot as his right foot was perfectly legal.

The step through move was legal if the pivot foot doesn't move beforehand.

Agreed on all of the above. And the pivot foot does move before his step through. He had to move it to get leverage to make the step through.

Most of my commentary on this is in regards to comparing players from different era. In those other eras, even the NBA gather was a travel.

The reason it matters is you have to play slower and under more control with more stringent rules on establishing a pivot foot. Similarly on the one's first step. Players are given great leeway on when they need to dribble while moving (1st step or catching a pass while moving). Older players there was no leeway. What all that does is make players who are just as athletic, look less athletic, because they need to play under control all the time to avoid taking extra steps.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 06:31:08 PM
Green will be a HoF'er. He should definitely be in the same 'wing' as Rodman.

And not only can he defend every position, he can and has played every position on offense.

I think what's scary is Golden State played better when he was ejected.  I said this early vs Denver.......if Poole is the real deal they're literally impossible to guard.  As far as I can tell the kid is no joke.   He's an elite scorer, not just a shooter.   The bottom line is Wiggins is their 4th best offensive player.  it may very well be that the rest of the teams have no chance.  It would be super interesting if the Bucks somehow find a way to match-up with them in the Finals. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 07:45:02 PM
Does Duncan Robinson no longer get mins for Miami?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 08:32:26 PM
This is a sweep if Embiid can't come back.  Harden looks past his prime to me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 02, 2022, 09:52:07 PM
Deliberate kick to the nuts. Again only an F1.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 09:59:52 PM
Deliberate kick to the nuts. Again only an F1.

Ya....I love Jae but I guess I don't understand the rules.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 10:22:36 PM
In the Philly/Miami game combined they shot 15/70 from distance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 02, 2022, 10:49:46 PM
Marquette alums are about to have 1-0 series lead in every series.

Would be great if the final 4 can have a guaranteed MU ring.

Doc or Jimmy have to advance in the 1 series obviously.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 11:02:06 PM
Marquette alums are about to have 1-0 series lead in every series.

Would be great if the final 4 can have a guaranteed MU ring.

Doc or Jimmy have to advance in the 1 series obviously.

That would be cool. Juan has become a bit player again for GS now, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:05:36 PM
That would be cool. Juan has become a bit player again for GS now, though.

Not his fault!  Even you couldn't find time on that roster in your prime.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2022, 11:19:03 PM
Not his fault!  Even you couldn't find time on that roster in your prime.

Ha. My basketball "highlight" is that I never lost a 1-on-1 game to my son. Of course, I stopped playing him on his 11th birthday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 02, 2022, 11:31:06 PM
Ha. My basketball "highlight" is that I never lost a 1-on-1 game to my son. Of course, I stopped playing him on his 11th birthday.

These guys can ball. The only way I could hold my own is if I was a foot taller.  I've always been a proponent of a 5'8 and under league.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 03, 2022, 07:47:06 AM
These guys can ball. The only way I could hold my own is if I was a foot taller.  I've always been a proponent of a 5'8 and under league.

They have those. They're called 4th-grade travel teams!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 03, 2022, 10:06:38 AM
That would be cool. Juan has become a bit player again for GS now, though.

Its part of what makes Kerr a very good coach.  He's flexible with his rotations and knows what needs to change depending on the series.  Curry coming off the bench for his limited end of quarter runs has had them playing smaller for longer stretches.

Its not just Juan.  Kuminga played close to 20 min a game during the season, he's had a pair of DNPs and under 8 min a game for the remainder.  Damion Lee got even more minutes during the season, 20 a game, and he's playing as few as Juan now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 10:26:03 AM
They have those. They're called 4th-grade travel teams!

I've said it before and will say it again:  We will never truly be free until the persecution of diminutive people is eliminated.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 03, 2022, 11:11:03 AM
Its part of what makes Kerr a very good coach.  He's flexible with his rotations and knows what needs to change depending on the series.  Curry coming off the bench for his limited end of quarter runs has had them playing smaller for longer stretches.

Its not just Juan.  Kuminga played close to 20 min a game during the season, he's had a pair of DNPs and under 8 min a game for the remainder.  Damion Lee got even more minutes during the season, 20 a game, and he's playing as few as Juan now.

Good points. Kerr's a hell of a coach, on a trajectory to be an all-timer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 03, 2022, 04:34:56 PM
Marcus Smart out tonight.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 05:12:59 PM
Marcus Smart out tonight.

Good.  He's a freaking hack machine.  Hopefully the Bucks take advantage.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 03, 2022, 05:54:27 PM
Man, this feels like game they have to have with Smart out. Idk who is going to be tasked with bringing the ball up the court, but Smart was barely capable against Jrue/Jevon 48 minutes of hell, so the outlook isn't great.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 03, 2022, 06:12:12 PM
What in the world is Giannis doing?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 03, 2022, 06:18:06 PM
Boston hitting shots they were missing Sunday. Bound to happen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 06:39:30 PM
Good grief.  Down 17??  What on God's Green  Earth is going on? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 03, 2022, 06:42:04 PM
Boston hitting shots they were missing Sunday. Bound to happen.

Better in Boston than Milwaukee. I still think the Bucks make this a game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 03, 2022, 06:42:29 PM
Well if you're going to pick a game for Giannis and Jrue to suck, might as well bottom out when Brown can't miss.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 06:43:42 PM
Wow.  1-10 for Giannis and I see Browm is unconscious.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 06:59:55 PM
The Bucks and  Giannis look totally out of sorts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 03, 2022, 07:00:37 PM
Better in Boston than Milwaukee. I still think the Bucks make this a game.

I may have been mistaken.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 07:02:56 PM
I may have been mistaken.

WTH happened?  I missed the first Q and a 1/2.   Obviously, Brown is on fire but they look freaking lost out there. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 03, 2022, 07:03:29 PM
WTH happened?  I missed the first Q and a 1/2.   Obviously, Brown is on fire but they look freaking lost out there.

Bad coaching, bad players and bad fans
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 03, 2022, 07:07:13 PM
WTH happened?  I missed the first Q and a 1/2.   Obviously, Brown is on fire but they look freaking lost out there.

Celtics raining theees. Bucks playing iso ball and turning it over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Celtics raining theees. Bucks playing iso ball and turning it over.

13-20 from distance usually helps.  The ones I saw were wide open. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 03, 2022, 07:13:18 PM
This one’s over but I think they bounce back Saturday
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on May 03, 2022, 07:23:22 PM
They lost game 2 in the second round by 39 last year, it happens. At least they aren’t coming back to Milwaukee down 0-2
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 07:24:25 PM
The Bucks seem to be overpresuring the ball like Wojo did at MU.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 07:36:59 PM
Giannis is thinking too much.  Just take one dribble and a wide open 12 footer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 03, 2022, 07:39:18 PM
Sometimes, losing game 1 at home causes a higher seed to come out focused, leading to a game 2 reversal.   Bucks now have home court.    Playoff basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 07:42:43 PM
I would get Giannis in the wide post every possession.  He just needs to slow down a bit and not force things. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 08:26:25 PM
I can't say I'm a fan of Stan Van G's commentary.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 03, 2022, 08:26:53 PM
I can't say I'm a fan of Stan Van G's commentary.

I would agree. That was a total flop by Williams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 08:32:40 PM
The Bucks obviously can't make only 3 triples and win.  I also think Giannis forced way too much tonight.  Less iso, move the rock. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
I would agree. That was a total flop by Williams.

He also seems to just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, with basically the same rudimentary "analysis". 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 03, 2022, 08:36:40 PM
Unacceptable
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 03, 2022, 08:39:39 PM
Probably can't shoot that poorly from 3 in a 2nd game.

I thought the Bucks misses really dug into their defensive strategy early and often - they weren't able to pressure the way they'd like. Plenty to clean up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 08:47:52 PM
Brooks just got kicked out. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 03, 2022, 08:48:06 PM
Fire Bud and trade Giannis and bring Sam Hauser home
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 08:51:05 PM
Fire Bud and trade Giannis and bring Sam Hauser home

No one is saying that but the Bucks lost their way this evening.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 03, 2022, 09:08:35 PM
Or the Celtics found theirs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 09:18:56 PM
Or the Celtics found theirs.

They certainly did in the first half but the Bucks looked disjointed and impatient.  Teams can carve you up if you overpressure the ball.  I thought they were undisciplined on both ends of the floor. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 03, 2022, 09:20:08 PM
I thought the Celtics ball movement was sublime.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 09:24:11 PM
I thought the Celtics ball movement was sublime.

Yes.  Very good job moving the rock after help came on the initial blow bys. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 09:41:50 PM
OMG did you see that??  Morant has tremendous bounce.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 09:46:49 PM
Dude has a completely different gear.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 10:01:43 PM
Brooks just got kicked out.

Now that is what a flagrant 2 looks like. Honestly, that was just an absurdly dirty play. In my opinion worse than Grayson Allen's foul on Caruso that bought him a suspension.

Brooks should get a suspension for that one. No attempt to even make a play on the ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 03, 2022, 10:06:31 PM
Now that is what a flagrant 2 looks like. Honestly, that was just an absurdly dirty play. In my opinion worse than Grayson Allen's foul on Caruso that bought him a suspension.

Brooks should get a suspension for that one. No attempt to even make a play on the ball.

Let's pump the brakes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 10:08:11 PM
Now that is what a flagrant 2 looks like. Honestly, that was just an absurdly dirty play. In my opinion worse than Grayson Allen's foul on Caruso that bought him a suspension.

Brooks should get a suspension for that one. No attempt to even make a play on the ball.

That did seem pretty blatant. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 10:10:27 PM
Danger time for Memphis.  The Dubs literally can't make an open three but it's a 4pt game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 03, 2022, 10:18:56 PM
Let's pump the brakes.

Brooks shouldn’t get suspended. And he won’t. But that was clearly worse than Allen’s foul on Caruso.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 10:36:33 PM
Brooks shouldn’t get suspended. And he won’t. But that was clearly worse than Allen’s foul on Caruso.

I can agree with this. I didn't think Allen should have been suspended.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 10:42:13 PM
How often will golden state be 5-31 from 3 with as many open looks as they've had.

Klay 2-10
Steph 1-7

They were off last game too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 10:51:45 PM
How often will golden state be 5-31 from 3 with as many open looks as they've had.

Klay 2-10
Steph 1-7

They were off last game too.

It's crazy.  Cause these have been wide open looks.  Somehow they're up by 3 on the road.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 10:55:15 PM
It's crazy.  Cause these have been wide open looks.  Somehow they're up by 3 on the road.

Steph's 2nd 3 to drop and he banked it in.

They really should be down double digits, not up 3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 11:03:06 PM
This is a one man show for Memphis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Was that goaltending?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 11:06:53 PM
Was that goaltending?

It was really close. A 50/50 call.

But with ~40 s left, the ref can't call that touch foul on Green when two guys are scrambling for the ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 11:10:06 PM
It was really close. A 50/50 call.

But with ~40 s left, the ref can't call that touch foul on Green when two guys are scrambling for the ball.

Agreed.  You also have to wonder why Kerr has just allowed Morant to go one on one the last 5 possessions or so?  Don't you get the ball out of his hands when no one else has done didly squat?  Thompson with a brutal game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 03, 2022, 11:12:54 PM
That touch foul on Draymond was horrendous. And it seemed like Memphis got an O rebound on that possesion for a much bigger push off.

Grizz have gotten A LOT of big calls to go their way this post season.


And fortunate that Klay Thompson seemingly forgot how to play basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 11:13:52 PM
Agreed.  You also have to wonder why Kerr has just allowed Morant to go one on one the last 5 possessions or so?  Don't you get the ball out of his hands when no one else has done didly squat?  Thompson with a brutal game.

Morant has just been nothing but special. Amazing touch at the rim.

But, he hits the defender in the chest hard on every drive with his off hand. You wonder if he keeps being as successful if they change the way they call that in the future.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 03, 2022, 11:15:39 PM
I think Memphis might steal the next one. They played physical and dirty, and it took a lot out of the older Warriors.

They will need every minute of the next 3 days of rest.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 11:19:17 PM
Morant has just been nothing but special. Amazing touch at the rim.

But, he hits the defender in the chest hard on every drive with his off hand. You wonder if he keeps being as successful if they change the way they call that in the future.

Why wouldn't they double him late?  I think he had their 18 of their last 20 pts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 03, 2022, 11:20:42 PM
I think Memphis might steal the next one. They played physical and dirty, and it took a lot out of the older Warriors.

They will need every minute of the next 3 days of rest.

I tend to think GSW will win pretty comfortably in San Fran.  They have not shot well at all these two games. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 04, 2022, 06:18:55 AM
Brooks shouldn’t get suspended. And he won’t. But that was clearly worse than Allen’s foul on Caruso.
I would think he will get suspended for at least one game, especially now that Payton has a broken elbow. He should get more.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 04, 2022, 07:23:03 AM
Classic NBA playoff basketball.   Higher seed loses game one at home, comes back with a strong game 2 performance.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2022, 09:03:52 AM
Payton is a bigger loss than he might seem just looking at stats. Of everybody the Warriors tried on Morant, he did the best. And he also kept two critical offensive rebounds alive in Game 1 -- they very well lose that game if not for either of those. He's the kind of hard-working, high-energy, ultra-hustle role player every coach loves to have on the roster.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 04, 2022, 09:20:55 AM
Bucks looked like a team happy with the split, which is disappointing. Despite the ugly game last night, I’m still feeling pretty good.

Van Gundy was making a big deal about the quality of shots in the paint the Bucks were getting and how that is a more sustainable way to win than Boston raining 3’s. I’m not sure how much of that was good Bucks offense or the Celtics were content giving up 2’s and making sure the Bucks didn’t get hot from 3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 04, 2022, 10:50:37 AM
I think Memphis might steal the next one. They played physical and dirty, and it took a lot out of the older Warriors.

They will need every minute of the next 3 days of rest.

I had the opposite thought. GS is going to come out pissed. They aren't going to shoot 18% on threes again. I think they win the next one by 10+.

It might benefit them to stop running with Memphis, though. It's not in their DNA but slowing it down and controlling pace could be beneficial.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 04, 2022, 10:52:35 AM
I would think he will get suspended for at least one game, especially now that Payton has a broken elbow. He should get more.

After sleeping on it, I think you're right. Especially since the league said they took Caruso's injury into account when handing Allen his suspension. Brooks likely gets one game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 04, 2022, 10:53:52 AM
Bucks looked like a team happy with the split, which is disappointing. Despite the ugly game last night, I’m still feeling pretty good.

Van Gundy was making a big deal about the quality of shots in the paint the Bucks were getting and how that is a more sustainable way to win than Boston raining 3’s. I’m not sure how much of that was good Bucks offense or the Celtics were content giving up 2’s and making sure the Bucks didn’t get hot from 3.

I always take the shot quality calculations with a grain of salt, but SQ had the game last night as an expected 97.9 to 97.9 score, each team wins 50% of the time. So there might be something to that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 10:55:44 AM
Bucks looked like a team happy with the split, which is disappointing. Despite the ugly game last night, I’m still feeling pretty good.

Van Gundy was making a big deal about the quality of shots in the paint the Bucks were getting and how that is a more sustainable way to win than Boston raining 3’s. I’m not sure how much of that was good Bucks offense or the Celtics were content giving up 2’s and making sure the Bucks didn’t get hot from 3.

I have a few concerns:

I think in Game 1 they scored 27 pts on fast breaks and a lot off turns.  You can't expect that number the rest of the series.  Their half-court offense can't just be iso ball.

Giannis had a very poor Game 2 until it was too late.  Without Middleton he is forcing some shots but more importantly I think he's rushing once he gets into the paint.   He can get an easy 10 footer whenever he wants vs G. Williams or Horford.  Take it with confidence and after the downhill attacks plant more and be patient. 

You can't overreact to guys going bananas from 3 but they are getting beat on the downhill initial drive.  I think they overpressured a lot in Game 2 and it bit them.  Giannis should not be exerting energy picking up Derrick White 45 feet from the rim or for that matter going 94 feet on offense. 

They need to create more opportunities from the mid-post with Giannis and Portis as well as get Lopez a few more touches.  It can't just be their two beat players alternating high pick and rolls or isos.  I would use Giannis much more in that mid-post area.  The fact is their half-court offense is a bit of a mess through two games and the turnovers have been careless. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 04, 2022, 11:05:00 AM
I have a few concerns:

I think in Game 1 they scored 27 pts on fast breaks and a lot off turns.  You can't expect that number the rest of the series.  Their half-court offense can't just be iso ball.

Giannis had a very poor Game 2 until it was too late.  Without Middleton he is forcing some shots but more importantly I think he's rushing once he gets into the paint.   He can get an easy 10 footer whenever he wants vs G. Williams or Horford.  Take it with confidence and after the downhill attacks plant more and be patient. 


He's not getting a lot of "easy 10 footers" right now.  They are letting him take uncontested 18' shots, and he is hitting his fair share, but Horford and Williams are pretty strong dudes who aren't letting Giannis back them down into the lane.

I agree with you a bunch on the iso ball though.  The ball movement in the first quarter was terrible.  I think that is because Boston switched up their defense and never really doubled much on Giannis like they did in game 1.  So he tried to make them "pay" for the lack of a double team, but wasn't able to do so.

I expect Bud to make adjustments. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 04, 2022, 11:32:12 AM
I said before the series and I think it now, I don't think the Bucks will win the series if Khris doesn't return.  The C's have the recipe to make life hard on Giannis (a strong, physical wing defender who can make it hard for him to get into the lane, and then a rim protector waiting when he does get into the lane), Giannis is asked to initiate the offense too much when Khris isn't available, and the spacing gets bad without Khris.  The Bucks have three point shooting to replace Khris, but Khris is one of only two guys on the Bucks that can score at all 3 levels (Jrue, and Bobby can score at all 3 levels but he's not really creating his own shot in doing so).

The Bucks really need to use Giannis as the screener.  The issue is the pick and roll was unstoppable with Giannis screening for Khris, because when teams packed the paint to stop Giannis's roll, Khris could just pull up at the elbow and knock down the 15 footer all day.  Jrue doesn't seem to like pulling up for that shot, and they haven't used the Jrue/Khris pick and roll nearly enough.  Frankly, Jrue seems better in the pick and roll when Brook is the screener.

I think the best option would be Jrue as the ball handler, Giannis as the screener, and Grayson in the corner on the side Giannis is rolling to.  If/when the corner defender helps on the Giannis roll, skip pass to Grayson in the corner.  Pat or Bobby in the strong side corner and Jrue needs to get the defense to commit to him or be aggressive scoring the ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 12:49:22 PM
I said before the series and I think it now, I don't think the Bucks will win the series if Khris doesn't return.  The C's have the recipe to make life hard on Giannis (a strong, physical wing defender who can make it hard for him to get into the lane, and then a rim protector waiting when he does get into the lane), Giannis is asked to initiate the offense too much when Khris isn't available, and the spacing gets bad without Khris.  The Bucks have three point shooting to replace Khris, but Khris is one of only two guys on the Bucks that can score at all 3 levels (Jrue, and Bobby can score at all 3 levels but he's not really creating his own shot in doing so).

The Bucks really need to use Giannis as the screener.  The issue is the pick and roll was unstoppable with Giannis screening for Khris, because when teams packed the paint to stop Giannis's roll, Khris could just pull up at the elbow and knock down the 15 footer all day.  Jrue doesn't seem to like pulling up for that shot, and they haven't used the Jrue/Khris pick and roll nearly enough.  Frankly, Jrue seems better in the pick and roll when Brook is the screener.

I think the best option would be Jrue as the ball handler, Giannis as the screener, and Grayson in the corner on the side Giannis is rolling to.  If/when the corner defender helps on the Giannis roll, skip pass to Grayson in the corner.  Pat or Bobby in the strong side corner and Jrue needs to get the defense to commit to him or be aggressive scoring the ball.

Good analysis but I do think they can win without Middleton although it's going to be a challenge.  Where I disagree with Fluffy (and you to a lesser extent) is that Giannis cannot get his game on track if he is continued to be guarded on on one.  He can get a quality shot vs Horford/Williams if he exercises a little patience in the mid-post. He's playing a bit too balls to the wall with one speed and all force.  He can get to his sweet spots by changing direction and planting more often in the paint.  If they double move the ball and get a quality shot.

Both Brown and Tatum are capable of going off.  What cannot happen is for Grant Williams and Horford to outplay Portis/Lopez.  They can use Brook more imo.

I think the Bucks need to win at the FT line and get at least 10-12 triples.  They're certainly capable of doing this without Middleton but Budenholzer needs to figure out how to attack in their h-c offense and they need to take care of the ball.    I expect Giannis to elevate his game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 08:39:17 PM
Miami is going to stroll to the ECF.  Doc looks extremely upset.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 09:06:44 PM
Harden doesn't look like he can carry a team offensively anymore. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 04, 2022, 10:00:16 PM
Jimmy looked like a point guard out there. Very impressed with the quality of his passes. I was surprised when I looked at the box score and he "only" had 12 assists to go with his 22 pts and 6 rebs. Hell of a player.

I wanted the Heat to win, but I wish Embiid were playing. It would be nice to have at least a semblance of a series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 10:19:11 PM
Jimmy looked like a point guard out there. Very impressed with the quality of his passes. I was surprised when I looked at the box score and he "only" had 12 assists to go with his 22 pts and 6 rebs. Hell of a player.

I wanted the Heat to win, but I wish Embiid were playing. It would be nice to have at least a semblance of a series.

True.  I can't imagine Jojo is particularly thrilled with the current skills of James Harden or having to play with him moving forward.  Miami is crazy deep and Jimmy is better than most of the "experts" think.  They have a great chance imo. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 10:20:36 PM
Jae dropped 15 in the 1st half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 04, 2022, 11:25:11 PM
Maybe CP3 wasn't the problem in Houston.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 05, 2022, 12:26:03 PM
Harden doesn't look like he can carry a team offensively anymore.

He’s not as good as he was, but he has no chance in this series without Embiid. They are building a wall against him like he’s Giannis and PHI role players are not up to the task.

Doc also isn’t doing his guys any favors.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 05, 2022, 02:06:25 PM
NBA does the right thing and suspends Brooks for game 3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
NBA does the right thing and suspends Brooks for game 3.

I thought he should have gotten at least 3 games.

It was a dirty, injurious, reckless, non-basketball play.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 05, 2022, 08:30:41 PM
I thought he should have gotten at least 3 games.

It was a dirty, injurious, reckless, non-basketball play.

I agree. I just thought they wouldn't do anything, so content they at least did a suspension.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 06, 2022, 07:03:27 PM
This game has been an objectively brutal watch so far.  Miami is beyond cold.

Sixers clearly spurred on by having Embiid back, but my god Harden just looks out of sorts.  For someone who used to be so deft getting to the lane and scoring, hes more than a step slow and kind of flails like a backup.  Age waits for nobody, but he's only 32.  Watching him compared to Durant and Curry who don't appear to have lost a step is kind of crazy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 06, 2022, 07:17:36 PM
Figurin' Hardin's heavy wallet is slowin' him down, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 06, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
This game has been an objectively brutal watch so far.  Miami is beyond cold.

Sixers clearly spurred on by having Embiid back, but my god Harden just looks out of sorts.  For someone who used to be so deft getting to the lane and scoring, hes more than a step slow and kind of flails like a backup.  Age waits for nobody, but he's only 32.  Watching him compared to Durant and Curry who don't appear to have lost a step is kind of crazy.

Harden is a loser
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 06, 2022, 07:49:30 PM
This game is not basketball
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 06, 2022, 08:08:54 PM
The score looks like a mid 90s Knicks playoff score.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 06, 2022, 09:30:39 PM
Jimmy was the only one of the Hots who bothered showing up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 06, 2022, 09:57:17 PM
Ryan Ruocco and JJ Redick were a joy to listen to calling the Heat game tonight. It's the first time I've left the game sound on in a while.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 06, 2022, 10:14:59 PM
Wow.  Stunned Phoenix is down big to the Mavs.  CP3 with 7 turns??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 06, 2022, 10:19:07 PM
Jae has 5 trifectas. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:10:07 PM
Basketball players rewarded for just falling over. If I wanted to watch acting in the athletic form I’d turn on soccer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:10:55 PM
The Bucks' offense is all over the place.  And a very strange challenge by Budenholzer on that last play.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:11:09 PM
Just a horrible use of a coaches challenge.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:12:27 PM
Bucks are getting good shots today but just not hitting them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:13:30 PM
Just a horrible use of a coaches challenge.

Terrible.  WTH was he thinking?  And apparently he's now lost his mind.

If you're the Bucks move the freaking basketball.  Establish Giannis in the wide post and create shots from there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:14:33 PM
Lol at not calling Tatum for the offensive foul after you let Grant Williams just fall over and get the call.

Make defenders make a play on the basketball to call a charge. There’s no consistency whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 03:16:12 PM
Just a horrible use of a coaches challenge.

Terrible call, clear block. The challenge was somehow even worse.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2022, 03:18:06 PM
If you really want to restore offense/defense balance, call more. charges, more Euro-step travels.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Terrible.  WTH was he thinking?  And apparently he's now lost his mind.

If you're the Bucks move the freaking basketball.  Establish Giannis in the wide post and create shots from there.

I can tell you don’t watch a lot of Bucks games because that’s not how they use him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:20:48 PM
Really dumb play from Giannis there.   He's also lost confidence with his simple mid-range J.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:22:20 PM
The Bucks really need to get the 3-Ball going or they're in serious trouble.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:23:13 PM
If you really want to restore offense/defense balance, call more. charges, more Euro-step travels.

More charges would be absolutely awful for basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
More charges would be absolutely awful for basketball.

I’d be happy never seeing a charge called ever again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 03:31:29 PM
I'd like to see them call more T's for flopping. Tatum is diving all over the floor, and getting rewarded for flops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2022, 03:32:55 PM
Sometimes, it looks like team handball.  More charges, more travels, please.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
Sometimes, it looks like team handball.  More charges, more travels, please.

Yuck.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
I'd like to see them call more T's for flopping. Tatum is diving all over the floor, and getting rewarded for flops.

Agreed. I said coaches should be able to challenge as many flops as they want. If they’re unsuccessful it’s 1 shot and the result of the foul call (so that there’s a decent risk and you aren’t just challenging every call) for the team that got the call. If it’s successful then the call is overturned. It’s the only way to keep players from flopping. They’re rewarded for falling over.

Sometimes, it looks like team handball.  More charges, more travels, please.

That’d be brutal. There’s a reason the product is as healthy as it ever has been.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2022, 03:37:37 PM
I liked late 80s through the 90s.  Pistons,. Bulls, Heat, Hornets.   I liked playoff game. finishing in the 70s.   I accept that mine is not a universal opinion.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:41:41 PM
You know the reffing is incompetent when they’re calling double fouls. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a double foul called at any level (not double T).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:42:09 PM
I liked late 80s through the 90s.  Pistons,. Bulls, Heat, Hornets.   I liked playoff game. finishing in the 70s.   I accept that mine is not a universal opinion.   

Scores were lower sure. But that was not due to more travels and charges. It was due to a grabby and over physical defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:43:32 PM
Two good hoops for Giannis.  He clearly read my comments when he came back into the game.  1) Stop and plant the pivot in the paimt and 2) RIse and take the easy mid-range J with confidence.  As for the rest of the Bucks???  It's ugly.  They need to get the triple going,.  It's been brutal for about 6 quarters.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:46:09 PM
Ughhh.  Huge call there.  He has to be smarter.  Smh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:48:31 PM
I don’t understand how you can let Tatum hammer Giannis on the block twice with no calls and then you give two tiny touch fouls back to back to put backups from the Celtic’s on the line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Ouch. Just a horrific set of events to close the half. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:51:29 PM
15 free throws in the second quarter for the Celtic’s. Haha.

If the Bucks somehow won this series it’d be significantly more impressive by Giannis putting this garbage on his back than any team LBJ put on his back in Cleveland. Jrue is better than any of LBJ’s teammates, but he’s playing like trash and the C’s are way better than anyone the Cavs were playing in the East.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 03:52:23 PM
I don’t understand how you can let Tatum hammer Giannis on the block twice with no calls and then you give two tiny touch fouls back to back to put backups from the Celtic’s on the line.

Bucks got a tough whistle in the 2Q but far more significant was missing every open three.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:53:34 PM
Bucks got a tough whistle in the 2Q but far more significant was missing every open three.

Yep. Bucks missing open shots all over. TOs are a problem too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2022, 03:53:52 PM
Scores were lower sure. But that was not due to more travels and charges. It was due to a grabby and over physical defense.
Euro steps were travels.   Mid range game was a thing because drives to the basket resulted in being knocked to the ground.

Hey, I get it.  The game has evolved and today's athletes are amazing.   What was once rare is now commonplace. Giannis is a player that was not conceived of 30 years ago.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 07, 2022, 03:55:39 PM
C’s crap 33% from the field and Giannis had 20 points in the first half and the Bucks still trail. BIIIIIG trouble.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 03:56:54 PM
C’s crap 33% from the field and Giannis had 20 points in the first half and the Bucks still trail. BIIIIIG trouble.

They really miss Khris. Grayson is a complete no show.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 03:57:37 PM
The scary thing is Tatum and Brown have shot poorly.   The FT difference is big.  I think Boston is doing a better job of attacking the paint.  If the Bucks cannot get the 3-Ball going I think it's going to be really difficult to win this game.  It's time for someone to step up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 04:13:14 PM
Euro steps were travels.   Mid range game was a thing because drives to the basket resulted in being knocked to the ground.

Hey, I get it.  The game has evolved and today's athletes are amazing.   What was once rare is now commonplace. Giannis is a player that was not conceived of 30 years ago.   

I can’t imagine people pining for the days where someone going to the rim gets knocked to the ground.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 04:14:50 PM
Going off the precedent from Green, this should be an F2. Contact to the face, then grabbing the defender to pull him down. At the end he tries to stop him from going down. Very similar to Green's F2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 04:15:47 PM
I would have thought the DPOY would be stronger on his feet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 04:16:11 PM
Going off the precedent from Green, this should be an F2. Contact to the face, then grabbing the defender to pull him down. At the end he tries to stop him from going down. Very similar to Green's F2.

Not even close to similar. I can’t believe you are still here not understanding why that was called.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:16:42 PM
Wow.  Will someone please help this young man?  I'm afraid he will have to drop 50.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2022, 04:17:39 PM
I can’t imagine people pining for the days where someone going to the rim gets knocked to the ground.
Destined to disagree.  I am sure we will both survive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 04:18:31 PM
Going off the precedent from Green, this should be an F2. Contact to the face, then grabbing the defender to pull him down. At the end he tries to stop him from going down. Very similar to Green's F2.

Not at all similar.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:23:05 PM
What happened to Boban?  I've always been a fan. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:25:10 PM
Was that intentional by Portis?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 04:34:14 PM
Why is that a foul on Matthews? He was first to the ball and had better basketball position. I realize the other guy went flying. But, the dramatics of a collision shouldn't impact who the foul (if any) was on.

I'd say no call as it was two people hustling that collided.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:38:10 PM
Why is that a foul on Matthews? He was first to the ball and had better basketball position. I realize the other guy went flying. But, the dramatics of a collision shouldn't impact who the foul (if any) was on.

I'd say no call as it was two people hustling that collided.

I'm not sure.  Seemed like a no call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 04:41:07 PM
Why is that a foul on Matthews? He was first to the ball and had better basketball position. I realize the other guy went flying. But, the dramatics of a collision shouldn't impact who the foul (if any) was on.

I'd say no call as it was two people hustling that collided.

In soccer, not a foul because he got the ball first.

Not sure what the rule is in the NBA but it’s always called a foul if you undercut somebody.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 04:44:31 PM
In soccer, not a foul because he got the ball first.

Not sure what the rule is in the NBA but it’s always called a foul if you undercut somebody.

Yeah that was pretty obvious.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 04:44:41 PM
In soccer, not a foul because he got the ball first.

Not sure what the rule is in the NBA but it’s always called a foul if you undercut somebody.

It is supposed to be based on whether or not a player gains an advantage by the contact. So often not called against the person who got to the ball first (unless they got there first by contact).

I think it is largely an unofficial if you "undercut" a guy we will just call the foul on you as a means of decreasing possibly injuries. I get it, I just disagree with it. Floor burns and hustle should be rewarded, not punished.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 04:44:54 PM
In soccer, not a foul because he got the ball first.

Not sure what the rule is in the NBA but it’s always called a foul if you undercut somebody.

As the guy already diving for it and in front, how would he have known?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
As the guy already diving for it and in front, how would he have known?


It’s not a foul unless a defender knows about it?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:51:20 PM
Bucks look a little gassed to start the 4th.  Gotta recalibrate and focus.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 04:52:59 PM
Calm down Hubie.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 04:56:25 PM
Will be interesting how they call this. If they are consistent with how they've ruled the same play (both in this game and in others) during the playoffs, it stays a charge.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 07, 2022, 04:57:37 PM
Just my opinion,  but Hubie needs to be put out to pasture
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 07, 2022, 04:58:05 PM
Will be interesting how they call this. If they are consistent with how they've ruled the same play (both in this game and in others) during the playoffs, it stays a charge.

Agree here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 05:01:58 PM
Just my opinion,  but Hubie needs to be put out to pasture

Yep.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:02:03 PM
Just my opinion,  but Hubie needs to be put out to pasture

This is the way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 07, 2022, 05:02:58 PM
Can someone call Bud to tell him Horford is on the floor?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 05:03:33 PM
Bucks offensive execution has been terrible. Why Giannis gave it up on that last switch with Brown on him I don’t know.

This is when you miss Middleton.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 05:03:52 PM
Can someone call Bud to tell him Horford is on the floor?

Not guarding Horford and some very questionable shot selection has hurt the Bucks in the 4th.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 05:04:07 PM
Can someone call Bud to tell him Horford is on the floor?

They’re not turning it over this half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:06:38 PM
Nor having a challenge could be critical.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:07:51 PM
Nor having a challenge could be critical.

Refs really making them pay for it
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:08:21 PM
Ughhh. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 05:09:30 PM
Refs really making them pay for it

Yeah, the no call on the Connaughton 3 was pretty bad, very obvious it across the arms.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:11:45 PM
Yeah, the no call on the Connaughton 3 was pretty bad, very obvious it across the arms.

That was the one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:13:00 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 05:13:40 PM
Tatum flops. Lol. He deserves that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:13:46 PM
Did he push off?  WTF is Hubie talking about?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:14:01 PM
Did he push off?  WTF is Hubie talking about?

Hubie, behind the barn
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:15:01 PM
Lol, go to hell Marcus
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:15:37 PM
I thought for sure that was 3 FT's.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:16:51 PM
Wow....just wow.  NO GOOD!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2022, 05:19:12 PM
I think Smart was over the line before that hit the rim too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
Wesley was instrumental in getting the W.  I still think Giannis has to get more help to pull this off without Middleton.  Wow was Tatum brutal today. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:26:49 PM
Wesley was instrumental in getting the W.  I still think Giannis has to get more help to pull this off without Middleton.  Wow was Tatum brutal today.

Wes gave Tatum a real run for his money. Huge performance for Matthews
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 07, 2022, 05:33:32 PM
They don't need your help, bud https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1523067221093740544?t=smfsg6iO5_IqC2bghFa7EA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1523067221093740544?t=smfsg6iO5_IqC2bghFa7EA&s=19)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 05:35:53 PM
They don't need your help, bud https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1523067221093740544?t=smfsg6iO5_IqC2bghFa7EA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1523067221093740544?t=smfsg6iO5_IqC2bghFa7EA&s=19)


Lol.  #bowling pins
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 07, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
Wes gave Tatum a real run for his money. Huge performance for Matthews

Wes is too old to play defense.  ::)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on May 07, 2022, 06:05:09 PM
Starting with 4 minutes left in the third, Celtics shot 17 fts, Bucks shot zero. I’m not normally a conspiracy guy, but there’s no way that should ever happen in a playoff game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 07, 2022, 06:13:47 PM
Wes is too old to play defense.  ::)

It’s kind of amazing how well he’s recovered from that Achilles injury and stayed productive for this long.

Holy cow that flopping quote. Smart flopping on the free throw earlier in the game trying to get a foul on Brook was something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 06:24:31 PM
Giannis should expect a flop on every attack the next game. I would plant with two feet in the paint more vs this team.  He started to do that in the 2Q.  The entire amount of free throws minus Giannis for Milwaukee was 5. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 07:55:29 PM
Kerr needs to get JTA on the floor.  Immediately. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 08:08:02 PM
Kerr needs to get JTA on the floor.  Immediately.

Kerr may need to get himself a T, so maybe the refs actually open their eyes.

Bad travel call against Porter.
Called a foul against Porter instead of an obvious offensive foul.
And then, a clean strip by Poole get's called a foul when Bane is the one that essentially tackled Poole to stop him from getting the loose ball.

Really bad stretch of 3 calls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 08:10:58 PM
Kerr may need to get himself a T, so maybe the refs actually open their eyes.

It hasn't been good.  Maybe that triple unleashes Curry.  In my unbiased opinion JTA should get some mins with Payton II injured.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 08:26:08 PM
It hasn't been good.  Maybe that triple unleashes Curry.  In my unbiased opinion JTA should get some mins with Payton II injured.

They've done a great job of blanketing Curry, and no one else is really taking advantage of the lack of help defense yet.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 08:41:43 PM
Wow.  Huge shot for the Grizz if that counts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 09:14:41 PM
Wow.  Huge shot for the Grizz if that counts.

Yeah, but the GSW quit turning the ball over, and now it is a 21 point game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 09:16:52 PM
Yeah, but the GSW quit turning the ball over, and now it is a 21 point game.

It looks like GSW in 5.  Bane isn't right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2022, 09:41:24 PM
They said on ESPN that Tatum was 0-for-10 when being defended by Wes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 07, 2022, 09:52:34 PM
Really concerned by the way Morant was grabbing his knee.

He's such an amazing player and a joy to watch. Hope it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 07, 2022, 09:56:53 PM
Really concerned by the way Morant was grabbing his knee.

He's such an amazing player and a joy to watch. Hope it's nothing serious.

Ughhh.  I missed it.  Hopefully he's okay.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 03:03:22 PM
Ughhhh.  Jae just limped off the floor.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 03:07:19 PM
The flop is just infuriating to me.  I think it's horrible for the game and there's no consistency on when it's called. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 08, 2022, 06:58:40 PM
I'm sure the Celtics fans are tolerating the two minute report declaring the ending sequence was called correctly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 08, 2022, 07:07:05 PM
I'm sure the Celtics fans are tolerating the two minute report declaring the ending sequence was called correctly.

I’ve never seen a fan base (or coach) who saw it’s team shoot 17 free throws over the final 16 minutes of a game while they’re opponent crap 0 cry so much about the reffing.

Edit: why does “shot” autocorrect to “crap” on here? That’s happened in both of the last two posts I’ve posted the word “shot” on.

Second edit. Maybe my iPhone is picking up an I in shot instead of an O and that’s the outocorrect on here.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 08, 2022, 07:10:54 PM
Duke fans, Elite 8 game against Sparty,  2019.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 07:23:24 PM
Harden with another brilliant quarter of basketball.  You really have to feel for Jojo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 07:26:14 PM
I’ve never seen a fan base (or coach) who saw it’s team shoot 17 free throws over the final 16 minutes of a game while they’re opponent crap 0 cry so much about the reffing.

Edit: why does “shot” autocorrect to “crap” on here? That’s happened in both of the last two posts I’ve posted the word “shot” on.

Expect the Celtics to flop a lot tomorrow .  Giannis and the entire team and coaching staff need to be prepared. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 08, 2022, 07:44:47 PM
Morant out for game 4. Good for the Warriors, bad for basketball fans
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 07:54:30 PM
Morant out for game 4. Good for the Warriors, bad for basketball fans

i still think it's possible he plays and will be alright.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 08, 2022, 08:30:43 PM
Morant out for game 4. Good for the Warriors, bad for basketball fans

I fully expect him to play.

But honestly, if the Poole play actually aggravated his injured knee, he needs to sit out. Nowhere near enough contact, or movement to cause an injury unless it was already in really bad shape.

If his knee was already in that bad of shape, he is at high risk of a major knee injury if he plays.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 08, 2022, 08:39:02 PM
JIMMY

iS

BUCKETING


He's single handedly keeping the Heat in this game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 05:41:23 AM
No props to ESPN's Michael WIlbon who tweeted something to the effect that "Giannis is great but just bowls people over".  Asinine and inexcusable comment by Wilbon who apparently doesn't understand that guys constantly flopping isn't basketball, nor the speed, quickness, and power of Giannis' game.  Of course this is the same guy who said he cheered the original O.J. verdict.  What a total loser and a disgrace to basketball analysis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 09, 2022, 05:56:01 AM
Asinine and inexcusable to have a take you disagree with.

 :
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 09, 2022, 06:37:53 AM
Jon Horst willing to take the fine to control the narrative https://theathletic.com/news/bucks-celtics-game-3-officiating/AE28UiaC9hf3/ (https://theathletic.com/news/bucks-celtics-game-3-officiating/AE28UiaC9hf3/)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 09, 2022, 06:55:01 AM
He obviously duzant have diapers ta bye, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:22:19 AM
Asinine and inexcusable to have a take you disagree with.

 :

It's a ridiculous take Tower.  The guy deserves to be called out .
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:24:55 AM
Jokic named MVP again.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
It's a ridiculous take Tower.  The guy deserves to be called out .


Are you talking about this tweet?  I have no idea what he should be "called out" for.  No one is suggesting that Giannis shouldn't be called for offensive fouls.

https://twitter.com/RealMikeWilbon/status/1523064900662153216?s=20&t=2tt7JTYZQs7vP8Fj3o1lcA

Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon
Giannis, on his own merit, is likely the best player in the world now…but the notion that he should just be allowed to bowl people over without offensive fouls being called is preposterous!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 09, 2022, 08:49:30 AM

Are you talking about this tweet?  I have no idea what he should be "called out" for.  No one is suggesting that Giannis shouldn't be called for offensive fouls.

https://twitter.com/RealMikeWilbon/status/1523064900662153216?s=20&t=2tt7JTYZQs7vP8Fj3o1lcA

Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon
Giannis, on his own merit, is likely the best player in the world now…but the notion that he should just be allowed to bowl people over without offensive fouls being called is preposterous!

I mean...he's right, isn't he? I'm not saying that's what Giannis is doing, but he shouldn't be allowed to bowl people over. That said, players also shouldn't be able to slide in, flop, and draw charges on him. The whole block/charge thing is problematic at pretty much every level of basketball, and certainly hasn't been consistently called in this series, but like you said, Giannis shouldn't be immune to offensive fouls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:54:07 AM
I mean...he's right, isn't he? I'm not saying that's what Giannis is doing, but he shouldn't be allowed to bowl people over. That said, players also shouldn't be able to slide in, flop, and draw charges on him. The whole block/charge thing is problematic at pretty much every level of basketball, and certainly hasn't been consistently called in this series, but like you said, Giannis shouldn't be immune to offensive fouls.

That's the whole point.  They did this same stuff to Shaq when he was hammered  constantly on every single possession.  It's  not Giannis' fault he's so strong quick, and powerful.  Wilbon is also the same guy who pisses and moans that the game isn't physical like the 80's/90's.  It's a weak take as are the takes of Celtics fans and Udoka.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 09, 2022, 08:57:01 AM
Jokic wins MVP. Won 46 games this year and lost in the 2nd round again. I don't meant to take away from his skills, but team success has to be a part of the award, imo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 09, 2022, 08:59:53 AM
Since 2018 Giannis has been called for twice as many charges as the next person on the list. The idea he gets away with bowling people over is ludicrous.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 09, 2022, 09:04:37 AM
Jokic wins MVP. Won 46 games this year and lost in the 2nd round again. I don't meant to take away from his skills, but team success has to be a part of the award, imo.

They won 48 games, which was only 3 games worse than the two other MVP candidates (Embiid and Giannis).  And he did it with the second and third best players on his team missing all (second best) or a large part (third best) of the season.  They lost to a team that very well may go to (and/or win) the NBA Finals.

Very well deserved.  It's not like he played on a 30 win team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2022, 09:06:12 AM
Jokic wins MVP. Won 46 games this year and lost in the 2nd round again. I don't meant to take away from his skills, but team success has to be a part of the award, imo.

I absolutely think team success was factored in. Without Jokic playing at an MVP level, the Nuggets don't make the playoffs and probably miss the play-in tourney, too. It's not as if Denver was a losing team -- they won 48 games, only 3 fewer than the Bucks and Sixers each did.

So I have no problem with Jokic winning, nor would I have had a problem with Giannis or Embiid winning. Each was very deserving IMHO. I certainly understand why a Bucks fan or a Sixers fan would think their guy should have gotten it.

I have a much bigger problem with the baseball voters turning the AL MVP Award into to the annual Great Angel on Horrible Team Award ... because, like you, I believe team success should factor in.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 09:07:22 AM
Since 2018 Giannis has been called for twice as many charges as the next person on the list. The idea he gets away with bowling people over is ludicrous.

Exactly.  Bumping someone isn't a charge.   Going aggressively downhill like a guard while some poor sap falls on his ass isn't a charge.  And for the Celtics, Udoka, and Wilbon to act like 6 yr olds is a total embarrassment to the sport and disrespectful to the best player in the game.  No one hacks and flops all over the floor like the Boston Celtics.  Starting with Smart, but it's their entire roster.  I don't buy this bcrap.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2022, 09:14:52 AM
Exactly.  Bumping someone isn't a charge.   Going aggressively downhill like a guard while some poor sap falls on his ass isn't a charge.  And for the Celtics, Udoka, and Wilbon to act like 6 yr olds is a total embarrassment to the sport and disrespectful to the best player in the game.  No one hacks and flops all over the floor like the Boston Celtics.  Starting with Smart, but it's their entire roster.  I don't buy this bcrap.

Don't hold back, Muggs ... tell us how you really feel!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 09:25:20 AM
Don't hold back, Muggs ... tell us how you really feel!

I get the gamesmanship of Boston/Udoka but Wilbon knows better.  I'm just spiffballing here but I'm guessing he didn't complain about Michael Jordan getting a few calls.  It is true Giannis does level plenty of guys on his way to the hoop.  But he gets called for tons of offensive fouls.  It's actually on him to be more careful but this insinuation that he just bowls people over is absurd and Hardenesque.  Again, it's not his fault that he can attack and elevate at 6'11 and the only way people can guard him at the rim is by looking like they have been shot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 09, 2022, 09:30:59 AM
They won 48 games, which was only 3 games worse than the two other MVP candidates (Embiid and Giannis).  And he did it with the second and third best players on his team missing all (second best) or a large part (third best) of the season.  They lost to a team that very well may go to (and/or win) the NBA Finals.

Very well deserved.  It's not like he played on a 30 win team.

Yea, who was the Nuggets second best option most of the season, Aaron Gordon?  I mean come on.  Giannis is the best player on the planet, but Jokic is an absolute monster who plays in a way we've never really seen before.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 09:35:08 AM
Exactly.  Bumping someone isn't a charge.   Going aggressively downhill like a guard while some poor sap falls on his ass isn't a charge.  And for the Celtics, Udoka, and Wilbon to act like 6 yr olds is a total embarrassment to the sport and disrespectful to the best player in the game.  No one hacks and flops all over the floor like the Boston Celtics.  Starting with Smart, but it's their entire roster.  I don't buy this bcrap.


Wilbon's tweet isn't really the problem then.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on May 09, 2022, 10:57:06 AM

Wilbon's tweet isn't really the problem then.

It's a problem because it's a perceived slight to Milwaukee and we all know how those go over.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 11:10:39 AM
It's a problem because it's a perceived slight to Milwaukee and we all know how those go over.

We do?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on May 09, 2022, 11:20:32 AM
We do?

Uh, yeah.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 09, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
Jokic is very deserving of the MVP.  Really close race between him, Giannis, and Embiid.

Advanced stats slightly favor Jokic.  Nuggets won almost as many games as the Bucks and 76ers, despite no Murray all year and no Porter almost all year.

I think the voters got it right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 09, 2022, 03:08:53 PM
Jokic is very deserving of the MVP.  Really close race between him, Giannis, and Embiid.

Advanced stats slightly favor Jokic.  Nuggets won almost as many games as the Bucks and 76ers, despite no Murray all year and no Porter almost all year.

I think the voters got it right.

I would have been OK with any of these three winning it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 09, 2022, 07:00:04 PM
Really glad the Celtics pointed out the need to call more offensive fouls  ;D
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 09, 2022, 07:16:17 PM
Huge shot quality advantage to Boston right now. Hope they have some adjustments.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 09, 2022, 07:21:13 PM
Man do the C’a sure whine.

Also, Brown and Williams should both be in the locker room in concussion protocol. Williams takes a hit to the tricep and somehow comes up holding his face lol.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 07:25:03 PM
This is just brutal offense by the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 09, 2022, 07:46:28 PM
This is just brutal offense by the Bucks.

Can’t believe they are up one. Need to find something out of half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
Wow.  The stats are atrocious.  Clearly the Bucks need to wake the H up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 07:55:01 PM
What a lame taunting call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 09, 2022, 07:55:11 PM
Oh NBA reffing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:01:11 PM
Giannis thinking way to much on his J.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:11:53 PM
Wow.  Have you ever seen a team complain more than the Celtics??  Sweet Jesus.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 09, 2022, 08:15:06 PM
Wow.  Have you ever seen a team complain more than the Celtics??  Sweet Jesus.

“It’s playoff basketball and it’s gonna be a little bit more physical, but you know if you’re about that, you’re about that."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:16:53 PM
“It’s playoff basketball and it’s gonna be a little bit more physical, but you know if you’re about that, you’re about that."

The Bucks are shooting like horsebleep.  They just need to focus.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:20:40 PM
That's a charge based on other calls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:32:55 PM
The Bucks literally cannot make a jump shot.  Poor offensive half-court sets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 09, 2022, 08:34:09 PM
Wow.  Have you ever seen a team complain more than the Celtics??  Sweet Jesus.
Irony is lost on you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:38:50 PM
Irony is lost on you.

Pointing out facts isn't ironic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 09, 2022, 08:40:45 PM
Man, Horford is a Bucks killer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:41:47 PM
Man, Horford is a Bucks killer.

He's killing them.  He's rarely missed an open look all series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:47:37 PM
Big Probs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 08:55:19 PM
Just bad offense to start the fourth two games in a row. Today it came back to bite them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 08:57:33 PM
Just bad offense to start the fourth two games in a row. Today it came back to bite them.

All iso ball, no ball movement whatsoever..  Terrible offense. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 09:01:30 PM
Very disappointing performance by Milwaukee.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 09, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Boston is just better without KM. It is what it is. They could win the series with two monster Giannis games but there isn’t really a path.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2022, 09:03:30 PM
Boston is just better without KM. It is what it is. They could win the series with two monster Giannis games but there isn’t really a path.

Grayson has been a huge disappointment
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 09, 2022, 09:04:29 PM
Boston is just better without KM. It is what it is. They could win the series with two monster Giannis games but there isn’t really a path.

it does look that way.  Holiday can't have a night like he did this evening.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 09, 2022, 09:09:29 PM
These series in the East have been pretty good so far. I enjoy watching all 4 teams.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 09, 2022, 09:12:01 PM
Do the Bucks realize Horford hasn’t retired yet?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 09, 2022, 09:49:11 PM
Do the Bucks realize Horford hasn’t retired yet?

Man, the Sixers gave Horford a bag a few years back. He's really earning it this series lol
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 09, 2022, 10:27:11 PM
Boston is just better without KM. It is what it is. They could win the series with two monster Giannis games but there isn’t really a path.

Yep. Jrue and the bench (outside of Pat) have turned into pumpkins. Unless something changes dramatically, they're toast.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on May 09, 2022, 11:27:52 PM
https://twitter.com/AnnaHorford/status/1523840244067536897?s=20&t=y0hiwjXV613mH5viPNjhBw
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on May 10, 2022, 06:06:48 AM
Refs being told to advance Boston, no doubt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 10, 2022, 06:24:12 AM
https://twitter.com/AnnaHorford/status/1523840244067536897?s=20&t=y0hiwjXV613mH5viPNjhBw

Lol ok…
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 10, 2022, 08:23:17 AM
Do the Bucks realize Horford hasn’t retired yet?


It's clear what the Bucks' strategy is in this series.  They are helping off Horford to protect the rim against the likes of Tatum.  But the Cs are now sticking him in the short corner where he is killing them.  What you may see in response is bringing back Bobby to guard Horford, and then stick Giannis on Marcus Smart instead.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 10, 2022, 08:25:09 AM

It's clear what the Bucks' strategy is in this series.  They are helping off Horford to protect the rim against the likes of Tatum.  But the Cs are now sticking him in the short corner where he is killing them.  What you may see in response is bringing back Bobby to guard Horford, and then stick Giannis on Marcus Smart instead.

The bigger problem is their offense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 10, 2022, 08:29:36 AM
I dont know whats funnier, Gobert saying he'd lock Shaq up...or all the people on social media who clearly never saw Shaq play before 2008 who say he'd struggle in today's NBA
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 10, 2022, 08:34:50 AM
The bigger problem is their offense.

No doubt.  The Middleton injury is really a problem without an easy solution.  Short of "Grayson Allen getting really hot" I guess.  When you invest in a "big 3," you can go without one of them for a game or two, but good teams are going to figure you out eventually.

I also think they are really regretting that Dante trade right now.  (I know at the time they were unsure of Brook's return and needed a serviceable big.)
 He at least would have been another potential offensive spark with decent defense.  (Unlike Nwora.)  But Serge is a big, fat nothing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 10, 2022, 08:41:08 AM
I also think they are really regretting that Dante trade right now.  (I know at the time they were unsure of Brook's return and needed a serviceable big.)
 He at least would have been another potential offensive spark with decent defense.  (Unlike Nwora.)

Disagree here. Donte was awful on the offensive end. Very inconsistent shooter and a terrible finisher at the rim.

They need more from Allen and Portis. Pat and Wes are doing their jobs.

Also I don't get Bud's fixation on playing George Hill. He's been a total zero, at least Carter gave you some defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 10, 2022, 08:50:32 AM
Disagree here. Donte was awful on the offensive end. Very inconsistent shooter and a terrible finisher at the rim.

I get all that.  But Serge is sitting on the bench playing garbage time and you are getting nothing from Allen.


They need more from Allen and Portis. Pat and Wes are doing their jobs.

Maybe more Pat is an answer?


Also I don't get Bud's fixation on playing George Hill. He's been a total zero, at least Carter gave you some defense.

I have questioned the whole George Hill thing since he was signed in the off season.  I have seen nothing all year that has made me change my mind.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 10, 2022, 08:59:21 AM
My biggest worry with the Bucks when Middleton went down was that you can't have Greyson Allen be your second best player in a championship run. Sure, it might work against the Bulls, but it won't hold up against the elite teams. I still think this series is a toss-up. The Bucks have shown they can win in Boston and it seems the C's only defense against Giannis is falling over, but they need someone else to hit some shots and will need Middleton back sooner rather than later if they really want to make a run at repeating.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 10, 2022, 09:24:36 AM
My biggest worry with the Bucks when Middleton went down was that you can't have Greyson Allen be your second best player in a championship run. Sure, it might work against the Bulls, but it won't hold up against the elite teams. I still think this series is a toss-up. The Bucks have shown they can win in Boston and it seems the C's only defense against Giannis is falling over, but they need someone else to hit some shots and will need Middleton back sooner rather than later if they really want to make a run at repeating.

Is Jrue suddenly out for the rest of the playoffs?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 10, 2022, 09:37:10 AM
Is Jrue suddenly out for the rest of the playoffs?

For some reason Jrue seems to be much better when Giannis is on the bench.  He just seems to be much more assertive and efficient with Giannis out, running a 2 man game with him and Brook.  When Giannis is in the game he defers and tries to go too much iso, as they don't really run a ton of Giannis/Jrue pick and rolls.

Jrue absolutely needs to be better and they need something out of Grayson and Bobby, but the reality is their defense was the issue in the 4th quarter.  The offense is too reliant on Giannis trying to get the matchup he wants, but they still scored 28 points in the 4th.  The problem was they gave up 43!  And the C's didn't try to score in the last minute, so 43 in 11 minutes.

That just feels like a back breaker last night.  Of course they showed they're capable of winning at Boston, and Giannis is the best player in the world and when you have that you always have a chance, but it's hard to imagine them winning 2 of the next 3 when they don't have the home court advantage and Tatum finally got it going down the stretch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 10, 2022, 09:48:17 AM
Yeah, Tatum played like crap for seven straight quarters but hit the big shots when he needed to.  I agree wades that that felt like a must win.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 10, 2022, 10:02:00 AM
Is Jrue suddenly out for the rest of the playoffs?

No, but just look at him last night. 5/22 from the floor? 16 points on 22 shots? And that's the sixth game this postseason where he's had more shots taken than points scored. FG% is down, 3PFG% is down, he just hasn't been a great offensive option. They simply aren't getting any reliable offense from anyone other than Giannis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 10, 2022, 10:35:37 AM
No, but just look at him last night. 5/22 from the floor? 16 points on 22 shots? And that's the sixth game this postseason where he's had more shots taken than points scored. FG% is down, 3PFG% is down, he just hasn't been a great offensive option. They simply aren't getting any reliable offense from anyone other than Giannis.

Sure, but he still added 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals.  He's averaging 6 and 6 throughout the playoffs.  His scoring efficiency is way down, no doubt, but he's still contributing a lot, not to mention his profound defensive impact.

He's unquestionably their second best player and to suggest otherwise, even if his scoring output isn't what you ideally want, is dramatic and silly
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 10, 2022, 11:04:10 AM
Sure, but he still added 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals.  He's averaging 6 and 6 throughout the playoffs.  His scoring efficiency is way down, no doubt, but he's still contributing a lot, not to mention his profound defensive impact.

He's unquestionably their second best player and to suggest otherwise, even if his scoring output isn't what you ideally want, is dramatic and silly

But even he hasn't been remotely close to second-best-on-a-championship-team good. You can parse it however you like, but if you have someone stepping up to give 20-30 points of efficient scoring like Allen did for those games in Chicago, it eases things, but no one on this Bucks team without Middleton is doing that consistently. The comment wasn't so much about Greyson Allen or Jrue Holiday or anyone on the Bucks, just that after Giannis, this team isn't good enough without KM to repeat what they did last year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 10, 2022, 11:13:01 AM
Can someone explain why George Hill guarded Tatum every time Hill was in the game?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 10, 2022, 11:24:55 AM
Can someone explain why George Hill guarded Tatum every time Hill was in the game?

Bud has an irrational love of George Hill. I was hoping for more Carter yesterday. He’s been a spark plug at times.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 10, 2022, 11:46:33 AM
But even he hasn't been remotely close to second-best-on-a-championship-team good. You can parse it however you like, but if you have someone stepping up to give 20-30 points of efficient scoring like Allen did for those games in Chicago, it eases things, but no one on this Bucks team without Middleton is doing that consistently. The comment wasn't so much about Greyson Allen or Jrue Holiday or anyone on the Bucks, just that after Giannis, this team isn't good enough without KM to repeat what they did last year.

If your "second best on a championship team" is someone routinely shooting 10/12, that's not a reasonable expectation.

Jrue has been bad the last 3 games, full stop.  But 26 on 10/21 (5/8 from 3) with 7 assists is just as valuable Allen's 27 pt 10/12  game where he did little else.  Jrue scoring 25 on 8/20 (3/5) but also giving you 9 and 5 like he did in the Game 1 win is also huge.

Its just weird singling out Allen who had 2 good games in Chicago and little else the rest of that series or the Boston series...when Jrue was a big reason they won Game 1 and a huge reason they won Game 3, despite not being efficient as he can be.

Does he need to be better for them to win this series, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But he's still been the second best/most important player on this team with Middleton out.  I honestly expect more and consistent productive from BP than I would from Allen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 10, 2022, 12:16:16 PM
If your "second best on a championship team" is someone routinely shooting 10/12, that's not a reasonable expectation.

Jrue has been bad the last 3 games, full stop.  But 26 on 10/21 (5/8 from 3) with 7 assists is just as valuable Allen's 27 pt 10/12  game where he did little else.  Jrue scoring 25 on 8/20 (3/5) but also giving you 9 and 5 like he did in the Game 1 win is also huge.

Its just weird singling out Allen who had 2 good games in Chicago and little else the rest of that series or the Boston series...when Jrue was a big reason they won Game 1 and a huge reason they won Game 3, despite not being efficient as he can be.

Does he need to be better for them to win this series, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But he's still been the second best/most important player on this team with Middleton out.  I honestly expect more and consistent productive from BP than I would from Allen.

The IRL conversation I had that inspired the comment, which I alluded to in the original post on the topic but didn't expound upon, was that I was talking about it shortly after Middleton went down. He went down in Game 2 against the Bulls. They lost. Then Allen stepped up in Games 3 & 4 in Chicago and they won. I was talking to someone at work and said "Greyson Allen has been great, but he can't be your second best player if you want to win a championship."

In the immediate aftermath of Middleton going down, Allen was the guy that stepped up to secure those two road wins. That's the context I'm talking about. I apologize if I didn't elaborate in that post and hope this provides a little more clarity.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2022, 12:52:00 PM
As part of a longer NBA column, The Athletic's Joe Vardon says Rivers shouldn't be on the hot seat with the Sixers:

There is almost no justification to dismiss Rivers, who still has three years and $24 million remaining on his contract. Philadelphia finished first in the Eastern Conference last season and flamed out in the playoffs because its second-best player broke down in ways that were beyond Rivers’ control.

Under Rivers’ tutelage, Maxey has become a budding star. And, the Sixers played up through the All-Star break this season without Ben Simmons because of that aforementioned breakdown in the second round of last season’s playoffs.

To get Harden, the Sixers not only had to trade Simmons — who was never going to play for Philadelphia again — but they also had to move two important role players in Seth Curry and Andre Drummond. This perhaps weakened the team’s top-to-bottom rotation in fortifying its starting lineup with an aging but still highly effective Harden.

Then there is Embiid, a five-time All-Star whose two best seasons as a pro have come with Rivers as his coach. Embiid is the present and future of the Sixers. He’s under contract through 2027. And it was Embiid who preferred Rivers over Tyronn Lue, an early favorite to land in Philadelphia before the Sixers ultimately hired Doc.

If the Sixers fall in this series, one would have to consider Embiid’s absence in Games 1 and 2 (both Miami wins) and a trying regular season in which Philadelphia played less than whole while finishing in fourth place in a crowded East.

While it is true that Sixers general manager Daryl Morey did not hire Rivers (Morey joined the organization after Doc), Rivers’ performance over the last two seasons, regardless of what happens in these playoffs, should not be justification for Morey to bid him goodbye anyway.

Well, Rivers left Embiid on the court at the end of a blowout win against Toronto, in which Embiid took an elbow to the face, you say? Why aren’t we criticizing Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins, then, for Ja Morant being on the court in Game 3 of a blowout loss to the Warriors and hurting his knee (Jordan Poole or no Jordan Poole)?

The only justification I can find for firing Rivers now would be if you blame him for Simmons. After the Sixers had lost Game 7 last season to the Hawks and Simmons suffered such an unfortunate final few minutes, Rivers said he didn’t know if Philadelphia could win a title with Simmons as its point guard.

Embiid also was critical of Simmons. If Simmons’ checking out, the trade for Harden, shipping out of Curry, Drummond and two draft picks arguably weakened the Sixers’ future, and that’s all traced back to Rivers, then perhaps there would be a case.

Are you willing to connect those dots? Is Morey?


I'd argue that leaving Embiid on the court to get hurt was really bad, and the fact that the Memphis coach did similar with Morant is just whataboutism that doesn't excuse Rivers' decision.

Simmons is just in a very bad place, and I doubt another coach could have solved that problem.

If judging the overall body of work, I'd agree Rivers doesn't deserve to be on the hot seat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 10, 2022, 05:12:55 PM
This Adrien Payne story is freaking bizarre. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 10, 2022, 05:28:57 PM
The IRL conversation I had that inspired the comment, which I alluded to in the original post on the topic but didn't expound upon, was that I was talking about it shortly after Middleton went down. He went down in Game 2 against the Bulls. They lost. Then Allen stepped up in Games 3 & 4 in Chicago and they won. I was talking to someone at work and said "Greyson Allen has been great, but he can't be your second best player if you want to win a championship."

In the immediate aftermath of Middleton going down, Allen was the guy that stepped up to secure those two road wins. That's the context I'm talking about. I apologize if I didn't elaborate in that post and hope this provides a little more clarity.

Fair, that makes more sense.  I certainly dont disagree
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 10, 2022, 07:43:24 PM
I’ve always liked Al Horford going way back to his college days with Noah. I always wished the Bucks had drafted or traded for him. But come on, this is ridiculous- the guy is shooting 50% from three point land- not even Bird could do that . Not even Brian Winters. Not even Downtown Freddie Brown- let’s get serious here.

On a night when Klay Thompson goes 0-7.

Bud should insist that he be given some sort of drug test.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 10, 2022, 07:54:46 PM
Weren't Strus and Paul Reed on DePaul the same year?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 10, 2022, 08:33:03 PM
Jimmy continues to get buckets in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
I’ve always liked Al Horford going way back to his college days with Noah. I always wished the Bucks had drafted or traded for him. But come on, this is ridiculous- the guy is shooting 50% from three point land- not even Bird could do that . Not even Brian Winters. Not even Downtown Freddie Brown- let’s get serious here.

On a night when Klay Thompson goes 0-7.

Bud should insist that he be given some sort of drug test.

Well, Curry had 5 full seasons in which he shot 44% or better from 3. And Ray Allen had 3 full postseasons in which he shot 47% or better (including 57% in one of them), so Horford having a few hot games isn’t exactly the stuff of miracles.

Also, maybe the Bucks should, I don’t know, stop leaving him wide open?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 10, 2022, 11:17:15 PM
Well, Curry had 5 full seasons in which he shot 44% or better from 3. And Ray Allen had 3 full postseasons in which he shot 47% or better (including 57% in one of them), so Horford having a few hot games isn’t exactly the stuff of miracles.

Also, maybe the Bucks should, I don’t know, stop leaving him wide open?

That’s not what Bud is going to do. They’ll continue to focus all their energy on protecting the paint and limiting Tatum and Brown and force Horford, Williams, White, Smart and Pritchard to beat them.

Will it work? Probably not. But that’s the way they’ll die.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 10, 2022, 11:28:08 PM
That’s not what Bud is going to do. They’ll continue to focus all their energy on protecting the paint and limiting Tatum and Brown and force Horford, Williams, White, Smart and Pritchard to beat them.

Will it work? Probably not. But that’s the way they’ll die.

I usually like that strategy, but eventually you have to acknowledge that a guy is just red-hot and respect that, don't you?

Or maybe not. In the 1995 playoffs (MJ's first after coming out of retirement a couple months earlier), Phil Jackson decided that leaving Horace Grant open from 15-20 was the way to beat the Magic. And it probably was sound strategy given the other weapons Orlando had, including Shaq. But Grant shot .647, averaging 18 ppg and 11 rpg, and the Magic won the series. And Jackson was a pretty good coach.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BrewCity83 on May 11, 2022, 10:01:55 AM
No way Horford goes 5-7 on threes again in a game this series.  Let him try...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on May 11, 2022, 02:06:38 PM
I assume Friday's game time hinges on if Memphis can extend their series?  Do we know what the different options are though?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 11, 2022, 02:44:14 PM
I assume Friday's game time hinges on if Memphis can extend their series?  Do we know what the different options are though?

I'd assume 6:30 if Memphis wins tonight, 7:30 if not.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 11, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
Feels like the Bucks are letting the Celtics get into the paint too easily. Nice to be up though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 06:47:09 PM
Feels like the Bucks are letting the Celtics get into the paint too easily. Nice to be up though.

Yeah I don’t know why they’re hedging out past the ball handler at the top of the key with their bigs at times. And George Hill and Brook teaming up to guard the pick and roll isn’t going to usually end well for the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:10:34 PM
My phone says the Bucks have an insane amount of turns.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 07:12:14 PM
This is really hard to watch. Giannis is doing absolutely everything he can to carry the Bucks. Just not enough there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:18:18 PM
This is really hard to watch. Giannis is doing absolutely everything he can to carry the Bucks. Just not enough there.

It sure looks that way in the box score.  I missed the first half but 7 is nothing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 11, 2022, 07:18:45 PM
Peddle Giannis for Hauser
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Let's go now. Maybe that wakes the rest of the Bucks up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:37:51 PM
Better ball movement by the Celtics
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:47:40 PM
Holiday going too much one on one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:49:12 PM
Allen can't guard Jaylen Brown. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:52:34 PM
Stan Van Gundy bothers me a bit. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 11, 2022, 07:55:10 PM
Stan Van Gundy bothers me a bit.

He’s been rough. Especially when your team is as frustrating as the Bucks. They have so little poise when Boston goes on a run. Jrue is just going 1 on 5. That Giannis 3 was a terrible shot even though it went in.

The championship made me forget how dumb we play.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 07:58:23 PM
He’s been rough. Especially when your team is as frustrating as the Bucks. They have so little poise when Boston goes on a run. Jrue is just going 1 on 5. That Giannis 3 was a terrible shot even though it went in.

The championship made me forget how dumb we play.

Terrible start to the 4th.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 11, 2022, 08:01:27 PM
Playing Hill and Allen together is a crime
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 11, 2022, 08:02:38 PM
Playing Hill and Allen together is a crime

I can’t understand why they don’t try Carter at all. Hill isn’t giving anything.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:05:49 PM
Playing Hill and Allen together is a crime

Yes.  That really can't happen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:08:28 PM
Can the Bucks get any stops down the stretch?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:15:36 PM
Wesley!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 08:18:13 PM
The Bucks would have won this series in 5 with Khris, but they don't have the ponies without him
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 08:20:47 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. FFS. That’s how you win an NBA DPOY.

Just call the sport soccer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:20:54 PM
Sorry but that's complete bcrap.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 08:21:52 PM
Fake tough guy. F^ck him
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 11, 2022, 08:24:35 PM
I’d take him on the Bucks in a second.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:25:23 PM
Huge call but they missed three opportunities after that and allowed a o-reb dunk.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:27:23 PM
Let's go now!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:34:16 PM
One freaking stpp!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:36:33 PM
OMG what a play!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 08:37:36 PM
This m'fing team. And for all of his shortcomings this series, Jrue is the ultimate MFer
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 08:39:14 PM
KABOOM!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2022, 08:39:44 PM
Jrue’s a pretty good basketball player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 11, 2022, 08:39:57 PM
celtics thought they had a gimme!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 11, 2022, 08:40:33 PM
Wow. That was incredible. Jrue has a knack for coming up big. Love that he did it against the DPOY.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 08:41:00 PM
unnatural carnal knowledge yeah.

DPOY.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 11, 2022, 08:43:53 PM
we gotta get mathew a ring baby-he was clutch
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 11, 2022, 08:44:02 PM
Don’t peddle his zz
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 08:44:32 PM
we gotta get mathew a ring baby-he was clutch

Much more productive than I thought he’d be this year. Hopefully he has one more lock down defensive game in him this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:03:00 PM
Wow. That was incredible. Jrue has a knack for coming up big. Love that he did it against the DPOY.

The play on Smart's baseline drive was maybe even better than his swipe of Booker in the Finals last year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 11, 2022, 09:12:09 PM
The play on Smart's baseline drive was maybe even better than his swipe of Booker in the Finals last year.

The combination of the baseline block followed by the flawlessly clean game clinching steal was awesome. Both amplified by being against Smart.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 11, 2022, 09:12:43 PM
Not sure what I enjoyed more, Portis' go-ahead putback, Holiday destroying Smart's shot and throwing it off him, or Holiday picking Smart's pocket to seal the win.

Only complaint is that Jrue didn't dunk it to put an exclamation point on the win.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:18:11 PM
There does seem to be a correlation between the Bucks hitting more than 10 triples and winning.  Four players on the floor for the Bucks made plays down the stretch. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 09:19:10 PM
Not sure what I enjoyed more, Portis' go-ahead putback, Holiday destroying Smart's shot and throwing it off him, or Holiday picking Smart's pocket to seal the win.

Only complaint is that Jrue didn't dunk it to put an exclamation point on the win.

Will be a good career experience for Smart to watch the tape and see DPOY caliber defense
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:23:49 PM
That flop of Smart on Giannis was a total joke btw.  Karma?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:30:29 PM
I missed that Smart complained on both of Holiday's stellar plays and actually flopped on the game ending steal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:32:15 PM
Apparently the Dubs decided they wouldn't show up tonight.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 11, 2022, 09:34:21 PM
I missed that Smart complained on both of Holiday's stellar plays and actually flopped on the game ending steal.

We watched every replay angle and it was funny. Jrue didn't touch him, but Smart reacted like he got decked. I've never seen a team as flop prone as Boston. It's like watching five Brad Davisons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 09:35:31 PM
I missed that Smart complained on both of Holiday's stellar plays and actually flopped on the game ending steal.

Disrespect the game and the game disrespects you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 09:37:39 PM
We watched every replay angle and it was funny. Jrue didn't touch him, but Smart reacted like he got decked. I've never seen a team as flop prone as Boston. It's like watching five Brad Davisons.

I think this should be noted because aa you stated, Holiday literally got all ball on both plays.  I mean it wasn't even close and we're talking WWE stuff from Smart which should result in technical fouls imo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 11, 2022, 09:42:38 PM
Apparently the Dubs decided they wouldn't show up tonight.

I just tuned in and wondered if GS forgot to set their alarms.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 11, 2022, 10:09:18 PM
That flop of Smart on Giannis was a total joke btw.  Karma?

I don’t know. I think Giannis was ticked and got tangled up with him on the other end. It was embellished but not a smart play by Giannis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 10:23:17 PM
I don’t know. I think Giannis was ticked and got tangled up with him on the other end. It was embellished but not a smart play by Giannis.

If that contact is a foul (in either direction) then there's a foul on literally every single possession in every single playoff basketball game.  Heck, there's a foul on all 4 matchups on every inbound in basketball when it's being inbounded on a team's offensive end.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 11, 2022, 10:25:07 PM
By the way, Kenny with the line of the night during the Memphis/Golden State halftime show.  When showing Giannis's late 3, Chuck said, "What'd you say about Giannis Kenny?"  Kenny's response was, "Fearless.  You're gonna have to kill him, because he's not gonna die."

This team has been absolutely resilient the last two years.  The number of times I've counted them out in the past two Playoffs has been numerous.  Let's hope they can close this series out at home on Friday and then get Khris back and see if they can't defend that title.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 11, 2022, 10:30:09 PM
I don’t know. I think Giannis was ticked and got tangled up with him on the other end. It was embellished but not a smart play by Giannis.

Cheebs he acted as if he was charged by a Rhino.  That's just my take, I thought Smart's reaction was absurd.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 11, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
https://twitter.com/Dario_Melendez/status/1524505055008862209?t=M9j4MnMSnY7KfZg6wyJpww&s=19 (https://twitter.com/Dario_Melendez/status/1524505055008862209?t=M9j4MnMSnY7KfZg6wyJpww&s=19)

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 12, 2022, 07:08:51 AM
Cheebs he acted as if he was charged by a Rhino.  That's just my take, I thought Smart's reaction was absurd.

I don’t disagree. Smart is a flop artist. Just it seemed like Giannis’ frustration boiled over a bit and gave the ref an opportunity to make a call. And Smart an opportunity to flop for one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2022, 07:37:35 AM
Giannis lowered his shoulder and extended his arm.  Smart sold it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 12, 2022, 08:11:22 AM
It was a clear foul.  Smart clearly flopped. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2022, 08:28:08 AM
That's where I am, too. That was pretty low on the list on the "no way was that a foul, the defender flopped, I'm outraged" meter. Giannis clearly moved his body into Smart, and clearly extended his arm. And yes, Smart clearly acted like he had been shot by a sniper. The majority of refs, at every level, would have called that an offensive foul IMHO.

About a minute later, Giannis set a pretty obvious moving screen. But the defender didn't sell it, and the refs didn't call it. And that's OK. Sometimes you're gonna get called for it, though.

All in all, Giannis absorbs more punishment than he gives, kind of like Shaq used to. He's done an incredible job of learning how to play through contact.

I'm glad that the refs didn't fall for Smart's weak attempts to flop for other fouls later in the game. Those would have been horrible calls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 12, 2022, 09:55:04 AM
It's counter to the narrative, but for the most part I think the refs have been fine outside of Game 3.

This series is so physical it's damn near impossible to keep any flow to it while calling it by the book. So the refs pick and choose their spots, some of which are... interesting.

The screening in this series could get whistled most every trip. Lots of extra hip/shoulder bumps and holds. Horford had two hands on Giannis while driving all night and it only got called once that I can remember. Giannis initiates a ton of contact, and it's hard to figure what's legit and embellished sometimes.

Lord knows I complain a bunch about college officiating, but the NBA refs have a ridiculously hard job, especially in a series like this one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 12, 2022, 09:56:40 AM
It's counter to the narrative, but for the most part I think the refs have been fine outside of Game 3.

This series is so physical it's damn near impossible to keep any flow to it while calling it by the book. So the refs pick and choose their spots, some of which are... interesting.

The screening in this series could get whistled most every trip. Lots of extra hip/shoulder bumps and holds. Horford had two hands on Giannis while driving all night and it only got called once that I can remember. Giannis initiates a ton of contact, and it's hard to figure what's legit and embellished sometimes.

Lord knows I complain a bunch about college officiating, but the NBA refs have a ridiculously hard job, especially in a series like this one.



Yep yep.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2022, 10:03:35 AM
It's counter to the narrative, but for the most part I think the refs have been fine outside of Game 3.

This series is so physical it's damn near impossible to keep any flow to it while calling it by the book. So the refs pick and choose their spots, some of which are... interesting.

The screening in this series could get whistled most every trip. Lots of extra hip/shoulder bumps and holds. Horford had two hands on Giannis while driving all night and it only got called once that I can remember. Giannis initiates a ton of contact, and it's hard to figure what's legit and embellished sometimes.

Lord knows I complain a bunch about college officiating, but the NBA refs have a ridiculously hard job, especially in a series like this one.

Agree with pretty much all of this.  Giannis has to absolutely suck to ref, and absolutely suck to play against.  He knows one speed and he's going through everything he can.

Overall I don't think the reffing has really favored one team or the other in this series or even in any individual games outside of game 3.  I thought the third quarter of game 4 favored the Bucks big, while almost all of game 3 favored the Celtics big.  Otherwise only really individual plays to complain about.  My biggest problem is WHERE the refs choose to blow their whistle.  In a vacuum in the regular season is that play a charge on Giannis?  Fine, I guess.  But in a game where you're letting Giannis get hammered every time he makes a move to the hoop, you can't fall for Smart's garbage flopping in a 4 point, 3 minutes left, 2-2 series to give Giannis his 4th foul.

Giannis has been called for 17 offensive fouls in the 10 Playoff games the Bucks have played so far.  Teams know the only way to stop Giannis is to fall over anytime there's contact.  It's just garbage basketball to me.  I know it's more the rule than the call.  But man does the NBA need to address flopping (both offensively trying to foul bate and defensively trying to get a charge call).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2022, 10:58:22 AM
Eliminate the Eurostep while they are at it. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2022, 11:05:52 AM
Eliminate the Eurostep while they are at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu9p5EI5SGk

Show me where the travel is.  It's two steps.  We're going to create a violation based on the length of a step now?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 12, 2022, 11:38:44 AM
Go back to the old rule.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2022, 11:43:20 AM
Go back to the old rule.   

Which was...?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2022, 01:10:40 PM
As a few of you have said, the NBA must be a beyotch to officiate. Every possession longer than 5 seconds -- and even some of the shorter ones -- something or other could be called.

There's been some bad officiating in the playoffs so far, but I can't remember enough to compare it to previous years. To me, the worst was Game 4 of the Suns-Mavs series. The refs had a rough night overall, and those 2 phantom fouls they called on Chris Paul were absolutely horrific -- almost "is this game fixed?" bad.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 12, 2022, 01:13:37 PM
As a few of you have said, the NBA must be a beyotch to officiate.
You should look at the last 2 minute reports from some of these games. It's  basically a dozen calls in the last 2 minutes that one could argue could really be called either way. Now multiply that by 24, and you can see how hard of a job they have.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: hairy worthen on May 12, 2022, 01:53:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu9p5EI5SGk

Show me where the travel is.  It's two steps.  We're going to create a violation based on the length of a step now?

Giannis looks like he travels, but he doesn't. He takes long strides and changes directions (Euro-step) that makes it look like a travel, but if you look at it again, he takes two steps. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2022, 02:54:49 PM
The only scene I remember from the old Bill Cosby show, the one where he played PE teacher Chet Kincaid, there was a kid who traveled badly during a drill or something. Cosby/Chet asks the kid if he knows how many steps a player is allowed, and the kid says, "Maybe around 3?"
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 12, 2022, 03:13:43 PM
Nah man, 3 wuz da number of pills Ole Bill wood put in laides drinks, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 07:51:22 PM
Miami is rolling in Philly.  You have to give Jimmy a ton of credit.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 08:06:55 PM
Doc looks extremely unhappy.  Is he gonzo from Philly?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 08:25:24 PM
Strus over Harden?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2022, 08:28:03 PM
Joel Embiid flopped his way into shredding Danny Green’s knee. I’d be very unhappy if I was Danny Green. Embiid’s been playing that dangerous game for years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on May 12, 2022, 08:30:18 PM
I know whose tape Jayson Tatum studies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanmarzion/status/1524863738616201219?t=ujMUHPPt_FrZf_n0ktTk6w&s=19
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 08:34:16 PM
I know whose tape Jayson Tatum studies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanmarzion/status/1524863738616201219?t=ujMUHPPt_FrZf_n0ktTk6w&s=19

Wow.  This is incredible stuff.  Ty.  I didn't realize he consistently does this garbage.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 08:44:32 PM
Harden with zero pts on 2 shots in the 2nd half.  Can anyone explain this?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 12, 2022, 08:45:28 PM
Harden with zero pts on 2 shots in the 2nd half.  Can anyone explain this?

Hes an all time loser
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 12, 2022, 08:48:01 PM
Harden with zero pts on 2 shots in the 2nd half.  Can anyone explain this?

Ben Simmons, that you?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 12, 2022, 08:51:18 PM
I know whose tape Jayson Tatum studies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanmarzion/status/1524863738616201219?t=ujMUHPPt_FrZf_n0ktTk6w&s=19

That’s some Brad Davison crap
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 12, 2022, 08:52:07 PM
Hes an all time loser

Yup.  The minute the Sixers got him, they weren’t a serious threat. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 12, 2022, 09:07:09 PM
Hes an all time loser

No argument here but isn't it also like a Defcon 1 crazy stat?  Did he bet on Miami?  If my memory is accurate he couldn't play with Chris Paul, Durant, or Embiid?  He's the same guy who said "all Giannis can do is dunk".  I'm not sympathetic at all but it's kind of fascinating from NBA historical standpoint.  Maybe he's pissed he doesn't get 50 shots a game?  I can't figure it out.  I suppose it may be as simple as a loser is well....a loser?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 12, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
That’s some Brad Davison crap

In defense of Brad, I don't think he does this sh!t, because he gets back in transition. The Celtics have routinely struggled in transition because they're getting off their ass or are bitching to officials.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 12, 2022, 10:26:51 PM
Congrats to my favorite NBA player, James F Butler. Study series for a great warrior.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 12, 2022, 11:04:43 PM
Which was...?

You were allowed a gather and 1-step (referred to as 1.5 steps). The official NBA rule until 2009 was that you were allowed 1-step in any direction after picking up the ball. The Euro-step (2-steps) was formally illegal and a travel until 2009.

It is now codified as legal, where you allowed 2 steps. Technically now, 2-steps and a gather.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 13, 2022, 01:18:08 PM
I’m going to be driving down to Cincinnati right after work tonight. It looks like ESPN radio in Chicago is AM 1000? Is that right? Will I be able to get the Bucks game there?

I’m hoping that and Indianapolis’s ESPN radio I can get the game the whole way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 13, 2022, 01:38:24 PM
Join da 90's man, and subscribe ta satellite radio, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 13, 2022, 01:49:51 PM
Join da 90's man, and subscribe ta satellite radio, hey?

I’m good. This will be about the 2.5 hours a year I need the radio.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 13, 2022, 02:14:26 PM
I know whose tape Jayson Tatum studies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanmarzion/status/1524863738616201219?t=ujMUHPPt_FrZf_n0ktTk6w&s=19
He's using the same set of feet Greg uses
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2022, 02:23:25 PM
For the NBA statniks out there, curious question.

I was comparing Lebron's and Doncic's first 4 years in the NBA.

If you look at the traditional stats: FG%, 3 pt %, FT %, eFG%, true shooting %, assists (assist rate), rebounds (rebounding rate both offense and defense), PPG, assists per game, and onwards, Doncic for the first 4 years is largely better all the way around (Lebron has an advantage in steals and blocks). And since Doncic plays fewer minutes, his efficiency is higher.

But if you look at the "advanced stats," like WS, BPM, and VORP, Lebron has a major stats advantage. On face value, it would appear that the advanced stats in this case are missing the mark.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2022, 02:46:23 PM
For the NBA statniks out there, curious question.

I was comparing Lebron's and Doncic's first 4 years in the NBA.

If you look at the traditional stats: FG%, 3 pt %, FT %, eFG%, true shooting %, assists (assist rate), rebounds (rebounding rate both offense and defense), PPG, assists per game, and onwards, Doncic for the first 4 years is largely better all the way around (Lebron has an advantage in steals and blocks). And since Doncic plays fewer minutes, his efficiency is higher.

But if you look at the "advanced stats," like WS, BPM, and VORP, Lebron has a major stats advantage. On face value, it would appear that the advanced stats in this case are missing the mark.

What am I missing?

Well, for one thing, back then LeBron was a very good defensive player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 07:13:00 PM
George Hill must have some serious blackmail on Bud.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Good line from Tony Kornheiser:

“I don’t know who’s gonna give James Harden $250 million. Maybe the Saudi golf league.”
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:15:32 PM
George Hill must have some serious blackmail on Bud.

WTF is he doing on the floor?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:16:30 PM
GIannis is going to need some help.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:23:13 PM
Too many wide open looks for Boston.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 07:26:42 PM
Too many wide open looks for Boston.

Yea, I’d like to think it’s unsustainable, but they aren’t making tough shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:29:04 PM
Giannis has to be smarter there. Cannot pick up that foul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:35:01 PM
That wasn't even close to an offensive foul.  Terrible challenge by Udoka.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:42:33 PM
What happened to the Grayson Allen who played against the Bulls.  Allen, Connaughton, and Portis need hit a few open triples.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:51:11 PM
Again, that cannot happen if you're Giannis.  Very disappointing. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2022, 07:51:42 PM
Again, that cannot happen if you're Guannis.  Very disappointing.

Peddle his azz
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 07:56:33 PM
Peddle his azz

He made two really bad decisions.  There's frankly no other way to see it.  And since he's getting very little help it's even more infuriating.  Someone between Portis, Connaughton, and Allen are going to have score the ball. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 13, 2022, 08:25:41 PM
Ring or not, Middleton injury or not.


Playing Allen this many minutes has to be a fireable offense.


Literally play 5 against 4 on defense and you have a better chance to get a stop.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 08:33:48 PM
Ring or not, Middleton injury or not.


Playing Allen this many minutes has to be a fireable offense.


Literally play 5 against 4 on defense and you have a better chance to get a stop.

What is the explanation for George Hill being on the floor?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 13, 2022, 08:35:16 PM
What is the explanation for George Hill being on the floor?

He sucks too. But Grayson is literally being picked on everytime down the floor by any and all Celtics. Cant make a shot.

Hes -29 in 22 minutes. Wes is -3 in 22 minutes.

They both start on the same team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Celtics only defense on Giannis is putting two hands on him or flopping.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 08:49:19 PM
He sucks too. But Grayson is literally being picked on everytime down the floor by any and all Celtics. Cant make a shot.

Hes -29 in 22 minutes. Wes is -3 in 22 minutes.

They both start on the same team.

Get Hill off the Fking floor.  NOW.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2022, 08:49:54 PM
He made two really bad decisions.  There's frankly no other way to see it.  And since he's getting very little help it's even more infuriating.  Someone between Portis, Connaughton, and Allen are going to have score the ball.

Peddle his azz
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 13, 2022, 08:56:04 PM
Know won wants his ass, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 13, 2022, 08:57:48 PM
Tatum stepping up. Gotta hand it to him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Know won wants his ass, hey?

He’s washed.  Bring Herro and Hauser home
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 13, 2022, 09:06:21 PM
Peddle his ass for #12, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 09:12:35 PM
Get Hill off the Fking floor.  NOW.

I honestly can’t understand it. Does Carter have a major deficiency that he can’t match up? Hill hasn’t done a thing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 13, 2022, 09:13:38 PM
I honestly can’t understand it. Does Carter have a major deficiency that he can’t match up? Hill hasn’t done a thing.

0 pts 0 assists 5 fouls 19 minutes. 🙄🙄🙄
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 09:14:40 PM
0 pts 0 assists 5 fouls 19 minutes. 🙄🙄🙄

And he hasn’t really done anything in any of the other playoff games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2022, 09:15:23 PM
Peddle his ass for #12, hey?

Dwight Howard?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2022, 09:20:46 PM
Get Hill off the Fking floor.  NOW.

Hill was very bad out there.

Giannis had an all time great game.

The problem is, so did Tatum...and Tatum had help from Smart and Brown, who both showed up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
I honestly can’t understand it. Does Carter have a major deficiency that he can’t match up? Hill hasn’t done a thing.

Do you have his plus/minus?  It has to be atrocious all series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 13, 2022, 09:24:53 PM
I honestly can’t understand it. Does Carter have a major deficiency that he can’t match up? Hill hasn’t done a thing.

Carter played well vs Chicago.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 13, 2022, 09:27:32 PM
Do you have his plus/minus?  It has to be atrocious all series.

Hill was -1 in 19 minutes.

Like I said, hes not good. But Allen is the very clear and present liability.

You cant be a role guy and literally not play defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 09:30:18 PM
Hill was -1 in 19 minutes.

Like I said, hes not good. But Allen is the very clear and present liability.

You cant be a role guy and literally not play defense.

That’s why I think Carter should have gotten a chance. Now maybe he will go in ice cold if Middleton doesn’t play.  Hill was the guy guarding Tatum when he got cooking in the second half.

I thought it was pretty well established Hill was one of the causes of the Bucks being so disinterested in the bubble. I’m surprised they brought him back, but I guess Bud loves him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2022, 09:38:40 PM
I don't get Allen and Hill getting minutes over Carter right now. At least run him out there. He can't be much worse offensively and he's clearly better on defense. They could really use a healthy Middleton for Sunday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 13, 2022, 09:40:25 PM
I don't get Allen and Hill getting minutes over Carter right now. At least run him out there. He can't be much worse offensively and he's clearly better on defense. They could really use a healthy Middleton for Sunday.

Even if just to take some minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 13, 2022, 09:44:35 PM
Celtics made 17 3 pointers, Bucks made 7.
And the solution is Jevon Carter?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2022, 10:06:36 PM
Celtics made 17 3 pointers, Bucks made 7.
And the solution is Jevon Carter?

The solution isn't healthy and isn't Greyson Allen. Is there another alternative? Nwora? Mamu? Thanasis?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 13, 2022, 10:12:47 PM
The solution isn't healthy and isn't Greyson Allen. Is there another alternative? Nwora? Mamu? Thanasis?

Start making shots.
And hope the Celtics cool off.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 13, 2022, 10:17:09 PM
Start making shots.
And hope the Celtics cool off.

I guess Carter could hopefully contribute to the second more than Hill and Allen at this point. Plus you might catch lightning in a bottle and he hits a few shots. Hill looks like he doesn’t belong out there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 13, 2022, 10:20:48 PM
Frustrated fans always point to the last guy on the bench and blame him for everything.
Once again, the Bucks shot 24 % from 3 point land. Tatum shot 7 for 15.
George Hill is not the issue.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 13, 2022, 10:33:00 PM
Start making shots.
And hope the Celtics cool off.

NBA players are tough to cool off when they can get any shot they want being guarded by traffic cones.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 13, 2022, 11:47:27 PM
NBA players are tough to cool off when they can get any shot they want being guarded by traffic cones.

Bucks have 2 all NBA Defensive players plus Wes. Hardly traffic cones.
Tatum is a really good player who had an incredible night, on the road, with his team on the brink. Sometimes all you can do is tip your hat.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 14, 2022, 12:09:44 AM
Bucks have 2 all NBA Defensive players plus Wes. Hardly traffic cones.
Tatum is a really good player who had an incredible night, on the road, with his team on the brink. Sometimes all you can do is tip your hat.

Those arent the players getting picked on all series whether its Tatum, Brown or even a poor shooter in Smart.

I feel like I dont have to reference Grayson for a 8th time. Everyone else has mentioned the corpse of Hill.

Or hopefully dont need to reference Connaughtons horrible rotation on the Tatum back breaker to go up 85-97.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 14, 2022, 12:39:53 AM
or even a poor shooter in Smart.

5 out of 9 from 3 point land tonight. The frustrated fan!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 14, 2022, 03:38:13 AM
3 shot in the Deer District. This country is so fooked up. Don't understand the despair of the down and out, but let's keep throwing money at 'em, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Goose on May 14, 2022, 04:05:09 AM
Doc,
Sounds like the shooting on Water and Juneau was pretty bad. That happened a few hours after the Deer District shooting. Rough night in downtown MKE.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 14, 2022, 04:50:53 AM
Frustrated fans always point to the last guy on the bench and blame him for everything.
Once again, the Bucks shot 24 % from 3 point land. Tatum shot 7 for 15.
George Hill is not the issue.

So they need to shoot better and need Boston to shoot worse. I propose fewer minutes for the guys that combined to shoot 1/10 and more minutes for a defensive minded player that could help limit Boston's shooting. Your plan is...umm...make no changes and hope things go differently?

Bud's job is literally the opposite of just tipping his cap. Yes, you acknowledge Tatum's performance after the fact, but in the midst of it, his job is to do something to stop it. Continuing to run out Allen and Hill clearly wasn't the answer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 14, 2022, 06:20:43 AM
Bucks have 2 all NBA Defensive players plus Wes. Hardly traffic cones.
Tatum is a really good player who had an incredible night, on the road, with his team on the brink. Sometimes all you can do is tip your hat.


I get that. But Hill has been completely unproductive on both ends of the court all series. I think it is fair to question if Carter would be a more viable alternative out there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2022, 06:42:12 AM
The reality is that without Khris the Bucks are very limited in what they have available. The triple big lineup has been awful for the Bucks, so they need to go with a three guard lineup. Which means one of Pat, George, Grayson, or apparently Javon will always be in the game, and Wes and Jrue do need some rest so two of them will be in the game at times.

Javon Carter is at best 6’1”. Tatum and Brown are 6’7”+. So whether it’s Hill, Grayson, or Javon, you’re just going to have to hope that those guys are missing shots at some point. The only real counter is to try to hide one of those guards on Grant Williams and scramble when they make him the screener, but that means Giannis probably isn’t roaming, and with Bobby taking more of Brook’s minutes that means the rim attack is wide open for Boston.

The fact that the Bucks have pushed this to a seventh game without Khris is a testament to Giannis’s greatness. The reality is that without Khris Boston is just a better team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 14, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
The reality is that without Khris the Bucks are very limited in what they have available. The triple big lineup has been awful for the Bucks, so they need to go with a three guard lineup. Which means one of Pat, George, Grayson, or apparently Javon will always be in the game, and Wes and Jrue do need some rest so two of them will be in the game at times.

Javon Carter is at best 6’1”. Tatum and Brown are 6’7”+. So whether it’s Hill, Grayson, or Javon, you’re just going to have to hope that those guys are missing shots at some point. The only real counter is to try to hide one of those guards on Grant Williams and scramble when they make him the screener, but that means Giannis probably isn’t roaming, and with Bobby taking more of Brook’s minutes that means the rim attack is wide open for Boston.

The fact that the Bucks have pushed this to a seventh game without Khris is a testament to Giannis’s greatness. The reality is that without Khris Boston is just a better team.

That may be the case but Carter's quickness is superior to Allen and Hill.  Tatum and Brown can shoot over him but they can't blow by him at will which puts the defense on skates.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 14, 2022, 08:34:25 AM
That may be the case but Carter's quickness is superior to Allen and Hill.  Tatum and Brown can shoot over him but they can't blow by him at will which puts the defense on skates.

Plus, at this point, I think we’ve already established Hill isn’t the answer. Worst case you give Carter a few minutes and go back to Allen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2022, 08:41:48 AM
That may be the case but Carter's quickness is superior to Allen and Hill.  Tatum and Brown can shoot over him but they can't blow by him at will which puts the defense on skates.

Maybe. But Tatum and Brown have 6+ inches and a lot of pounds in Carter.

Look, if you’re looking for Javon Carter to save your season, your season is probably in trouble. There’s a reason he saw like 3 minutes in the NBA Finals for Phoenix last year. There’s a reason the Nets cut him this year. He’s not someone you want playing minutes for you when your season is on the line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 14, 2022, 08:43:23 AM
So they need to shoot better and need Boston to shoot worse. I propose fewer minutes for the guys that combined to shoot 1/10 and more minutes for a defensive minded player that could help limit Boston's shooting. Your plan is...umm...make no changes and hope things go differently?

Bud's job is literally the opposite of just tipping his cap. Yes, you acknowledge Tatum's performance after the fact, but in the midst of it, his job is to do something to stop it. Continuing to run out Allen and Hill clearly wasn't the answer.

Part of the problem defensively last night was that Giannis got into foul trouble.  He's not only their best rim protector but the best option to guard Tatum on the perimeter.  The bigger issue last night is that Smart went bananas in the first half and the Bucks never really recovered.  They made a run before Tatum slammed the door but they played from behind all game.

Without Middleton, Holiday's offense and overall 3pt shooting has to be better and more efficient for the Bucks to win imo.   The Bucks have had a few stretches but overall have not shot well from the perimeter.  And when Giannis gets cheap fouls and into foul trouble it changes both sides of the ball.  Connaughton has been great but it's really hard to win when you start two perimeter players that aren't scoring the ball and a 5 who hasn't been able to hit anything but a chippie. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 14, 2022, 08:47:55 AM
Maybe. But Tatum and Brown have 6+ inches and a lot of pounds in Carter.

Look, if you’re looking for Javon Carter to save your season, your season is probably in trouble. There’s a reason he saw like 3 minutes in the NBA Finals for Phoenix last year. There’s a reason the Nets cut him this year. He’s not someone you want playing minutes for you when your season is on the line.

I don’t think anyone is looking for Carter to save the season. This series has been pretty equally matched. I think it’s possible Carter is less of a negative than Hill, so it’s worth it in case that tips the scales the Bucks way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 14, 2022, 09:21:13 AM
I don’t think anyone is looking for Carter to save the season. This series has been pretty equally matched. I think it’s possible Carter is less of a negative than Hill, so it’s worth it in case that tips the scales the Bucks way.

The C’s are +27 for the series, and that was with the Bucks punching them in the mouth game 1. The C’s have been (and are) the better team without Khris. They’ve had double digit leads in the fourth quarter of each of the last 3 games. It’s simply going to come down to can Giannis outplay the entire C’s team. The fact that he’s out the Bucks on his back for 3 wins against maybe the best team in the NBA (if it isn’t the Bucks when healthy) is pretty insane.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 14, 2022, 09:22:28 AM
I don’t think anyone is looking for Carter to save the season. This series has been pretty equally matched. I think it’s possible Carter is less of a negative than Hill, so it’s worth it in case that tips the scales the Bucks way.

Cheebs, I think we can all agree Hill has been an abomination.  There is no reason known to man why he played 19 mins yesterday or throughout this series  It really infuriated me when it was clear as crystal he shouldn't be on the floor.  I mean maybe you see what he does for a 4-5 min stretch but 19 mins?  Inexplicable.  You have to adapt and there's no reason not to give Carter or even Nwora some of his time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Merit Matters on May 14, 2022, 09:43:49 AM
Doc,
Sounds like the shooting on Water and Juneau was pretty bad. That happened a few hours after the Deer District shooting. Rough night in downtown MKE.
Aw come on they were just having fun. They dindu nuffin, ay?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Goose on May 14, 2022, 10:05:30 AM
Merit

Nothing to see here. Maybe 82 can link last night's events back to the abortion ruling and liven up the thread. Sadly, his last contribution on the topic is in a locked thread after 14 posts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 14, 2022, 10:12:53 AM
Take it elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Goose on May 14, 2022, 10:20:01 AM
BM

You are correct and I will take it over to the bashing dentist thread. Go BUCKS!!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 14, 2022, 11:19:31 AM
Part of the problem defensively last night was that Giannis got into foul trouble.  He's not only their best rim protector but the best option to guard Tatum on the perimeter.  The bigger issue last night is that Smart went bananas in the first half and the Bucks never really recovered.  They made a run before Tatum slammed the door but they played from behind all game.

Without Middleton, Holiday's offense and overall 3pt shooting has to be better and more efficient for the Bucks to win imo.   The Bucks have had a few stretches but overall have not shot well from the perimeter.  And when Giannis gets cheap fouls and into foul trouble it changes both sides of the ball.  Connaughton has been great but it's really hard to win when you start two perimeter players that aren't scoring the ball and a 5 who hasn't been able to hit anything but a chippie.

My issue was more that when Allen and Hill are giving you nothing on offense, they're giving you nothing. At some point, it should become obvious that you need to try something else. Clearly you live and die with as much Giannis, Jrue, Wes, Bobby, Brook, and Pat as you can get right now, but those other two are getting double digit minutes every night, are mediocre on defense, and 8/29 from the floor the past 4 games.

Carter or other bench options might not be the answer, but when it's clear those two aren't hitting shots and you spend most of the night down double digits, feels like you have to try something.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 14, 2022, 11:22:04 AM
Still wish they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the Ibaka trade.  Dante has had as great of an impact on this series as Serge.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 14, 2022, 11:25:42 AM
Still wish they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the Ibaka trade.  Dante has had as great of an impact on this series as Serge.

Agreed. Bucks would've taken this in 5 with Donte still on the team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 14, 2022, 12:20:08 PM
Agreed. Bucks would've taken this in 5 with Donte still on the team.

Yeah, I don’t know about that
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 14, 2022, 12:28:28 PM
Yeah, I don’t know about that

Yea, I think there’s a bit of overrating what Donte was bringing to the table this year. Although, the return they got for him could have been better. I get the Brook insurance, but Ibaka looks done.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 14, 2022, 12:30:05 PM
Well, for one thing, back then LeBron was a very good defensive player.

Thank you for the reply. I did think of that, but Lebron's first couple years in the league he actually rated as an average to below average defender (big jump to a significantly above average defender in year 4).

Compared to league averages, Doncic rates as an average, to slightly above average defender. So compared to league averages, with the exception of year 4 they are comparable.

But both by the eye test and the stats, Lebron was the better defender.

What I was more confused by was the offensive end. Where Doncic is the clearly better player for the first 4 years from a regular statistics standpoint. But for advanced stats like Offensive Win Shares, Lebron is head and shoulder statistically higher, which doesn't seem to make sense.

As an example:

In Lebron's 3rd year he averaged 26.5 ppg, 6 rpg, and 5.6 apg, TS%=56.8%: OWS=12.0
In Doncic's 3rd year he averaged : 27.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 8.6 apg, TS%=58.7%: but OWS=5.1

I was looking at these because I was curious how many players have been so successful from a statistics standpoint at such a young age (they both started at 19 years old. So did Durant but his apg numbers are decidedly lower). My intuition based on the raw stats was that Doncic's overall advanced stats would be higher than Hebron's, but they are drastically lower.

I'm not well versed in the advanced stats, and know many on here are so was wondering what leads to the discrepancy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 14, 2022, 01:07:25 PM
Yea, I think there’s a bit of overrating what Donte was bringing to the table this year. Although, the return they got for him could have been better. I get the Brook insurance, but Ibaka looks done.

He couldn’t be any worse than Allen or Hill.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 14, 2022, 01:29:38 PM
He couldn’t be any worse than Allen or Hill.

Agreed. I just don’t think that he’s the difference to be able to say Bucks win this in 5.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 14, 2022, 02:00:57 PM
Donte is bad defensively and an inconsistent shooter. He would have been another body in this series but I don’t think he’d have any more impact than Allen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 14, 2022, 03:03:36 PM
Donte is bad defensively and an inconsistent shooter. He would have been another body in this series but I don’t think he’d have any more impact than Allen.

Allen had two big games against Chicago.  He is capable but has been brutal vs Boston.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 14, 2022, 03:38:48 PM
Thank you for the reply. I did think of that, but Lebron's first couple years in the league he actually rated as an average to below average defender (big jump to a significantly above average defender in year 4).

Compared to league averages, Doncic rates as an average, to slightly above average defender. So compared to league averages, with the exception of year 4 they are comparable.

But both by the eye test and the stats, Lebron was the better defender.

What I was more confused by was the offensive end. Where Doncic is the clearly better player for the first 4 years from a regular statistics standpoint. But for advanced stats like Offensive Win Shares, Lebron is head and shoulder statistically higher, which doesn't seem to make sense.

As an example:

In Lebron's 3rd year he averaged 26.5 ppg, 6 rpg, and 5.6 apg, TS%=56.8%: OWS=12.0
In Doncic's 3rd year he averaged : 27.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 8.6 apg, TS%=58.7%: but OWS=5.1

I was looking at these because I was curious how many players have been so successful from a statistics standpoint at such a young age (they both started at 19 years old. So did Durant but his apg numbers are decidedly lower). My intuition based on the raw stats was that Doncic's overall advanced stats would be higher than Hebron's, but they are drastically lower.

I'm not well versed in the advanced stats, and know many on here are so was wondering what leads to the discrepancy.

I admit it's the eye test for me when talking about defense. LeBron didn't always play lock-down D on every play when he was younger, but he was capable of doing it, and he did just that in some big situations. I don't recall Doncic actually stopping anybody very often, but maybe he has.

As for what the advanced stats say vs. the regular stats on offense, I guess it doesn't matter all that much to me. LeBron was a hell of a player early in his career -- some of his best work was leading a mediocre-at-best Cleveland team to the 2007 NBA Finals in his 4th year -- and he became an all-time great in the years that followed. Doncic has been a hell of a player early in his career, and I'm excited to see how much better he can get and how long he can stay great.

Maybe 82 can link last night's events back to the abortion ruling and liven up the thread. Sadly, his last contribution on the topic is in a locked thread after 14 posts.

Doc Dribble "livened up" that thread by politicizing it in the very second post, but you already knew that. Thanks for agreeing to stick to the NBA in this thread from now on.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Goose on May 14, 2022, 03:41:19 PM
82

I try to stay within the topic and fully agree this should be an NBA thread.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 14, 2022, 10:13:26 PM
Agreed. I just don’t think that he’s the difference to be able to say Bucks win this in 5.

It's not a staggering difference. They led in the fourth quarter of game 4 at home. Hold on there and the Bucks win in 5.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 01:01:25 PM
Even with Middleton still out, I just have the feeling the Bucks are gonna win today. Giannis will be great, as always, Holiday is gonna play really well, and a couple of the role players will step up big.

Now watch the effen Celtics win by 30. If so, I apologize in advance!

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 01:17:34 PM
Even with Middleton still out, I just have the feeling the Bucks are gonna win today. Giannis will be great, as always, Holiday is gonna play really well, and a couple of the role players will step up big.

Now watch the effen Celtics win by 30. If so, I apologize in advance!

Holiday is due to have a big game?  Portis?  Or Giannis may need 50.  The shooting of the Bucks at Fiserv has been an enigma all playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2022, 01:21:04 PM
The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 01:26:48 PM
The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.

They look like the better team.  They certainly have more weapons and are better defensively.  This could be one of those games where the Bucks need an unsung hero like Horford was for the C's in Game 4.  Is it conceivable Allen can make a few shots?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 15, 2022, 01:35:27 PM
The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.

That happened to the Heat last year in the playoffs. Making a deep run, especially with a short offseason, take a physical toll. Little injuries start adding up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:10:55 PM
Pretty good 1st Q aside from the unnecessary O-foul from Portis and the fact that he couldn't secure a D-reb.  CATCH THE BALL.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 15, 2022, 03:14:34 PM
Pretty good 1st Q aside from the unnecessary O-foul from Portis and the fact that he couldn't secure a D-reb.  CATCH THE BALL.

I thought he got shoved in the back on that rebound.

Brook is coming up big.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:16:25 PM
Allen continues to miss wide open looks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:21:24 PM
Bucks with like 5 fouls in 2 mins.


No words can describe Grayson Allen's misses.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:24:43 PM
3pt shooting is the big issue right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
Giannis has to avoid that crap. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:42:07 PM
George Hill's contributions while he was on the floor?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:48:14 PM
Freaking brutal.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:49:25 PM
Bucks 3-19 from distance isn't gonna get it done.  And that last sequence really hurts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Really stoopid at the end of the half. Three free points for Boston.

Still, in decent position. Close game despite shooting woes, and Tatum has 3 fouls. Start hitting a few shots, and the Bucks can still will this one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 03:56:04 PM
Really stoopid at the end of the half. Three free points for Boston.

Still, in decent position. Close game despite shooting woes, and Tatum has 3 fouls. Start hitting a few shots, and the Bucks can still will this one.

It was also Giannis' 2nd foul abd both of his fouls were cheap and avoidable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:07:10 PM
Problems.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:14:06 PM
No foul on Tatum there?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2022, 04:19:29 PM
Can't continually get in a 30 point hole from three in the modern NBA. Year after year they shoot like ass in the playoffs.

Obviously not having Khris is huge, but all their "shooters" are 0-11 from three.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 04:23:21 PM
That Allen contract is going to make it difficult to do much this off season. My guess is this is the team they are rolling with the next couple of seasons. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:23:47 PM
Can't continually get in a 30 point hole from three in the modern NBA. Year after year they shoot like ass in the playoffs.

Obviously not having Khris is huge, but all their "shooters" are 0-11 from three.

Exactly right. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 15, 2022, 04:28:08 PM
This Boston team is just so unlikeable. Starts with Smart, but I've never seen flopping and whining so ingrained in a team culture.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 15, 2022, 04:33:23 PM
Bucks just don't have it without Khris. The shape of the offense changes, and there's no one other than Giannis that can easily get his own. Luck goes into a playoff run, and in this case, it means the better team is going home.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:39:04 PM
The Bucks' perimeter players are 0-14 from distance.  You're not winning with that stat. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Ardmore Mug on May 15, 2022, 04:40:08 PM
This Boston team is just so unlikeable. Starts with Smart, but I've never seen flopping and whining so ingrained in a team culture.

+1,000  and the Refs falling for it and not calling the C's for same stuff ! ! !   The NBA wants the C's to advance.... So Very obvious ! ! !  8-)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2022, 04:43:23 PM
The Bucks' perimeter players are 0-14 from distance.  You're not winning with that stat.

Being outscored from 3 by 39 points.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:46:39 PM
Being outscored from 3 by 39 points.

Giannis has also missed a bunch of chippies but it wouldn't have mattered.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 04:48:59 PM
I mean this is cool but that’s probably not a great indication of team success.

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/1525955186119819264?s=21&t=vMArwA-wE82jBTeGuLhFsg

“Giannis Antetokounmpo is the first player ever with 200 points, 100 rebounds and 50 assists in a single series.”
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PointWarrior on May 15, 2022, 04:49:17 PM
+1000 - look forward to Jimmy and the Heat smoking the Celtics in the finals.


This Boston team is just so unlikeable. Starts with Smart, but I've never seen flopping and whining so ingrained in a team culture.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 04:52:11 PM
+1000 - look forward to Jimmy and the Heat smoking the Celtics in the finals.

I think MIami will beat Boston as well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 15, 2022, 04:55:16 PM
+1,000  and the Refs falling for it and not calling the C's for same stuff ! ! !   The NBA wants the C's to advance.... So Very obvious ! ! !  8-)

The Bucks three point shooting and settling for midrange instead of driving is what's really killed them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 04:55:56 PM
I think MIami will beat Boston as well.

Boston has too much offense IMO.

I likely won’t watch much though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 04:56:29 PM
Go Warriors. Or Mavs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Ardmore Mug on May 15, 2022, 04:58:54 PM
The Bucks three point shooting and settling for midrange instead of driving is what's really killed them.
Yea, DRIVE and get hammered and nothing going to get called! ! !  Giannis prob sick and tired of being beat to $hit, but called for BS on the other end ! ! ! ! 8-)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 15, 2022, 05:00:23 PM
Just brutally ice cold shooting from the Bucks.  So glad they won the title last year, because I don't know how they can improve the roster.  Not enough assets and roster flexibility.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 05:01:43 PM
Boston has too much offense IMO.

I likely won’t watch much though.

Miami has a lot of shooters but Tatum is the best offensive player on the floor.  I think you may be discounting Strus?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 05:02:52 PM
4 for 29 is like Badger numbers vs Iowa St.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 05:04:52 PM
Excuse me 4 for 31.

That's insane.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 05:05:04 PM
Just brutally ice cold shooting from the Bucks.  So glad they won the title last year, because I don't know how they can improve the roster.  Not enough assets and roster flexibility.

I think PC could opt out too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 05:06:42 PM
I think PC could opt out too.

Losing Middleton was kind of a big deal though for this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 05:06:51 PM
They don’t really need to improve the roster though. If Middleton is healthy they win this series and probably the title. And Giannis has improved every year and will again.

Last year the Nets were the best team. Bucks invited the challenging first round series last year, swept the Heat (lol at the poster comparing the Heat’s bubble run to the Bucks real title and Olympics, plus the Bucks losing in 7 in the second round while the Heat got swept in a whimper round 1 last year), got a sweep, then the basketball Gods smiled down on them and gave them the advantage of some injuries. This year the C’s invited the tough first round matchup while the Bucks dodged it, and the C’s swept the tougher matchup and then the basketball God’s smiled down on them with an injury that helped them win in 7.

Nets we’re the best team last year but the Bucks won the title. Bucks are the best team this year but won’t win the title.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 05:10:14 PM
They don’t really need to improve the roster though. If Middleton is healthy they win this series and probably the title. And Giannis has improved every year and will again.

Last year the Nets were the best team. Bucks invited the challenging first round series last year, swept the Heat (lol at the poster comparing the Heat’s bubble run to the Bucks real title and Olympics, plus the Bucks losing in 7 in the second round while the Heat got swept in a whimper round 1 last year), got a sweep, then the basketball Gods smiled down on them and gave them the advantage of some injuries. This year the C’s invited the tough first round matchup while the Bucks dodged it, and the C’s swept the tougher matchup and then the basketball God’s smiled down on them with an injury that helped them win in 7.

Nets we’re the best team last year but the Bucks won the title. Bucks are the best team this year but won’t win the title.


You're ragging on someone else while using the phrase "basketball Gods" multiple times?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 05:12:14 PM

You're ragging on someone else while using the phrase "basketball Gods" multiple times?

I take it back. The Bucks didn’t benefit from Harden and Kyrie injuries last year, and the C’s didn’t benefit from Middleton’s injury this year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: GB Warrior on May 15, 2022, 05:16:02 PM
I take it back. The Bucks didn’t benefit from Harden and Kyrie injuries last year, and the C’s didn’t benefit from Middleton’s injury this year.

To be fair, the body of evidence from the Nets is inconclusive on whether the Bucks benefited from their absence. The evidence for Mid is pretty indisputable
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on May 15, 2022, 05:16:26 PM
I would like to see the Bucks re-sign Wes Matthews.

Good for MU
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 05:17:02 PM
I take it back. The Bucks didn’t benefit from Harden and Kyrie injuries last year, and the C’s didn’t benefit from Middleton’s injury this year.

That’s has nothing to do with “basketball Gods” and who the first round opponents were.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 05:19:53 PM
That’s has nothing to do with “basketball Gods” and who the first round opponents were.

Yeah. It’s a phrase people use sometimes. Sorry you take it so literally. The more literal version is probably just taking whatever matchup comes the team’s way head on and not dodging a certain matchup, giving the team the mindset they’re ready to take on anyone.

In reality I don’t think the Bucks title run and Olympic run wore them out. I think Middleton’s injury left them without their second best player and they couldn’t overcome it. The Cavs and Warriors had no problems performing while playing a lot of basketball every year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Yeah. It’s a phrase people use sometimes. Sorry you take it so literally. The more literal version is probably just taking whatever matchup comes the team’s way head on and not dodging a certain matchup, giving the team the mindset they’re ready to take on anyone.

In reality I don’t think the Bucks title run and Olympic run wore them out. I think Middleton’s injury left them without their second best player and they couldn’t overcome it. The Cavs and Warriors had no problems performing while playing a lot of basketball every year.

I agree with your second paragraph. But the first round match up was irrelevant. When push came to shove, they had a home game to clinch. And they just didn’t get it done.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2022, 05:32:30 PM
Send Giannis back to Greece
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 05:35:04 PM
Welp ... you know the old saying that dates back to Dr. Naismith's time ...

Tough to win when you get outscored by about 50 points from the 3-point line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 15, 2022, 05:49:52 PM
Peddle da 'hole fookin' teem, koaches, and ownership. Turn da dear dystrick back inta ded, vacant freeway. Everythin' fookin' sucks, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2022, 05:59:06 PM
Peddle da 'hole fookin' teem, koaches, and ownership. Turn da dear dystrick back inta ded, vacant freeway. Everythin' fookin' sucks, aina?

Yes
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 15, 2022, 06:40:21 PM
They don’t really need to improve the roster though. If Middleton is healthy they win this series and probably the title. And Giannis has improved every year and will again.

Last year the Nets were the best team. Bucks invited the challenging first round series last year, swept the Heat (lol at the poster comparing the Heat’s bubble run to the Bucks real title and Olympics, plus the Bucks losing in 7 in the second round while the Heat got swept in a whimper round 1 last year), got a sweep, then the basketball Gods smiled down on them and gave them the advantage of some injuries. This year the C’s invited the tough first round matchup while the Bucks dodged it, and the C’s swept the tougher matchup and then the basketball God’s smiled down on them with an injury that helped them win in 7.

Nets we’re the best team last year but the Bucks won the title. Bucks are the best team this year but won’t win the title.

Not sure what Giannis can do to become better.  Unless he suddenly becomes a knockdown shooter, I think he's reached his peak.  Which is still as good as any player in the league. So my questions are about the rest of the roster.

I'm worried about Middleton, Holiday, and Lopez declining with age.  They will turn 31, 32, and 34 next season.  There isn't a young up-and-comer on the roster.  Not many trade assets.  Slim chance they can get a steal in the draft at 24.

I see a roster at risk of declining without many ways to get better.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2022, 06:45:40 PM
Not sure what Giannis can do to become better.  Unless he suddenly becomes a knockdown shooter, I think he's reached his peak.  Which is still as good as any player in the league. So my questions are about the rest of the roster.

I'm worried about Middleton, Holiday, and Lopez declining with age.  They will turn 31, 32, and 34 next season.  There isn't a young up-and-comer on the roster.  Not many trade assets.  Slim chance they can get a steal in the draft at 24.

I see a roster at risk of declining without many ways to get better.

Has the potential to be a wild off-season for the Bucks.  Assume they bring the core back to take another swing but wonder if they won’t be tempted to really tinker if given the opportunities
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2022, 07:03:58 PM
Has the potential to be a wild off-season for the Bucks.  Assume they bring the core back to take another swing but wonder if they won’t be tempted to really tinker if given the opportunities

They mortgaged the draft for Jrue and Khris is Giannis' guy. Brook seems like the only major piece that could be moved.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2022, 07:15:42 PM
They mortgaged the draft for Jrue and Khris is Giannis' guy. Brook seems like the only major piece that could be moved.

I’m not even sure that does much anyway as far as a return in value. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 15, 2022, 07:21:05 PM
How long does Coach Bud have before he's on the hot seat again?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 15, 2022, 07:29:05 PM
Years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 15, 2022, 07:31:41 PM
He's gotta get better, better, better, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 07:34:19 PM
How long does Coach Bud have before he's on the hot seat again?

IMO if they start slow next year, he will be out for Darvin Ham.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 15, 2022, 07:40:58 PM
IMO if they start slow next year, he will be out for Darvin Ham.

Yea, Vogel got let go 2 years after a championship. I also really believe if they didn’t make the Finals last year he was gone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 15, 2022, 07:43:10 PM
If Milwaukee fires him, he will have another gig very quickly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 07:48:35 PM
The Mavs up big early in Phoenix. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 07:56:37 PM
Wow.....is every player on the Suns dating a Kardashian?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 08:00:30 PM
If Milwaukee fires him, he will have another gig very quickly.

No doubt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 08:05:25 PM
I don’t love some of the game plans Bud has had, but I think he’s been awesome for the Bucks. He immediately took the Bucks from a team with an exciting future to the best record in the league back to back years, went to an ECF year one (and yes they choked away a 2-0 lead and he didn’t make some adjustments he could have, but he also had Eric Bledsoe as his point guard), won a title in year 3, and forced what us maybe the best team remaining to a 7th game down his second best player. I’d grade him an A with the Bucks at the very worst, maybe even an A+.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on May 15, 2022, 08:06:46 PM
Doncic has as many points as the Suns at half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 15, 2022, 08:17:00 PM
Doncic has as many points as the Suns at half.

Hilarious given Booker and CP3 were laughing about Doncic's defense after game 2.  Those two have combined for 0 field goals and 3 total points in the first half.  Sad.

Went about as well as after game 5 of the Finals last year when CP3 said everyone knows Giannis is going to miss free throws, even Giannis knows it.  Then Giannis went 17/19 in game 6.  Oops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 15, 2022, 08:18:58 PM
I don’t love some of the game plans Bud has had, but I think he’s been awesome for the Bucks. He immediately took the Bucks from a team with an exciting future to the best record in the league back to back years, went to an ECF year one (and yes they choked away a 2-0 lead and he didn’t make some adjustments he could have, but he also had Eric Bledsoe as his point guard), won a title in year 3, and forced what us maybe the best team remaining to a 7th game down his second best player. I’d grade him an A with the Bucks at the very worst, maybe even an A+.

I am not saying I want him gone. I am just saying that I think he might be if they start slow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
I wouldn't can him, but I would strongly encourage he add an offensive specialist to the staff. Their halfcourt offense needs a lot of work.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 08:44:05 PM
92-50?  This is crazy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 08:56:43 PM
I wouldn't can him, but I would strongly encourage he add an offensive specialist to the staff. Their halfcourt offense needs a lot of work.

4 for 31 is a problem but they can find the right pieces with Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2022, 09:17:48 PM
4 for 31 is a problem but they can find the right pieces with Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday.

It's a larger issue come playoff time. They were passable enough on that end last year, but not the other three postseasons under Bud.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 15, 2022, 09:20:29 PM
It's a larger issue come playoff time. They were passable enough on that end last year, but not the other three postseasons under Bud.

I'm not a Budenholzer fan but realistically could they get a tier 1 coach?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 09:30:03 PM
When’s the Suns game start?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 10:07:00 PM
“A lot of people said it was gonna be a blowout … and it was.”

- Jason Kidd
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 15, 2022, 10:11:50 PM
I'm really impressed that the C's found a way to win without Hauser. It ain't easy being shorthanded.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2022, 11:43:42 PM
Those that have said that Bird wasn't athletic enough to play in today's game. Doncic say hi.

In my opinion, Doncic is what a modern Bird would look like playing. Except Bird was 2 inches taller, and more athletic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 15, 2022, 11:50:48 PM
Those that have said that Bird wasn't athletic enough to play in today's game. Doncic say hi.

In my opinion, Doncic is what a modern Bird would look like playing. Except Bird was 2 inches taller, and more athletic.

Only a dope would say that Bird wouldn't have been a superstar in today's NBA. He'd average 12-15 a game on 3s alone -- he only took an average of 2 per game back then; he'd take 4x that many now -- and the rest of his offensive game was superlative. One of the great passers ever, and a double-digit rebounder. And while he wasn't a great man-to-man defender, he was a very good help defender with tremendous anticipation for the ball, and he willingly mixed it up at that end of the court.

Not sure about Bird being more athletic than Doncic. They were/are both pretty good athletes who knew/know how to position themselves for success on the court.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2022, 12:14:40 AM
Only a dope would say that Bird wouldn't have been a superstar in today's NBA. He'd average 12-15 a game on 3s alone -- he only took an average of 2 per game back then; he'd take 4x that many now -- and the rest of his offensive game was superlative. One of the great passers ever, and a double-digit rebounder. And while he wasn't a great man-to-man defender, he was a very good help defender with tremendous anticipation for the ball, and he willingly mixed it up at that end of the court.

Not sure about Bird being more athletic than Doncic. They were/are both pretty good athletes who knew/know how to position themselves for success on the court.

On 2nd thought. I agree with this. Both are similar in being good athletes, and crafty with footwork and technique.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2022, 06:57:26 AM
On 2nd thought. I agree with this. Both are similar in being good athletes, and crafty with footwork and technique.

Doncic is uncanny at getting to the spot he wants to get to; Bird was very similar in that respect.

In other news ...

Steph Curry re-enrolled at Davidson during the spring semester and graduated on Sunday with a B.A. in sociology. Not sure what kind of career he expects to have with a degree like that!

Davidson has a policy against retiring numbers of athletes who didn't graduate, so his #30 now can be retired. There undoubtedly will be a big ceremony at a game next season to do it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 16, 2022, 07:13:56 AM
Herd he's goin' inta sports journalism. Bedda hours and pay dan da Association, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 16, 2022, 07:16:17 AM
Those that have said that Bird wasn't athletic enough to play in today's game. Doncic say hi.

In my opinion, Doncic is what a modern Bird would look like playing. Except Bird was 2 inches taller, and more athletic.


No one said Bird "wasn't athletic enough to play in today's game."

And really I don't think their games are all that similar. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2022, 07:24:10 AM
Herd he's goin' inta sports journalism. Bedda hours and pay dan da Association, hey?

Yep, if you're Tom Brady.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
Interesting little sidebar on the Suns, from The Athletic:

Remember that Luka Doncic, who scored 35 ruthless points in 30 minutes of play, was drafted two spots behind Deandre Ayton, whom the Suns picked No. 1 overall, despite having Doncic’s Slovenian national coach, Igor Kokoškov, as their head coach at the time.

Ayton has been an above-average NBA player on really good teams the last two seasons. But he played just 17 minutes Sunday — zero in the fourth quarter. Asked about it after the game, Suns coach Monty Williams said the reasoning was “internal.” Yikes.

Ayton needs a new contract, and judging by the aftermath Sunday, it’s unclear if the Suns will give him one.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2022, 12:27:08 PM
Patrick Beverly's appearances on ESPN this morning are must watch clips.  He makes a bunch of good points, but also just SAVAGES Chris Paul repeatedly.  Its absolutely incredible television
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 16, 2022, 12:33:25 PM
Those that have said that Bird wasn't athletic enough to play in today's game. Doncic say hi.

In my opinion, Doncic is what a modern Bird would look like playing. Except Bird was 2 inches taller, and more athletic.

Chris Mannix said the same about Luka this morning. "Bird with a better handle." That fadeaway he used in the lane is very Dirk-like too. He's easily top five in the league right now, maybe top three with Giannis and Jokic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Its DJOver on May 16, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
https://twitter.com/eric_nehm/status/1526278390155825152?cxt=HHwWgMC-mf-Gt64qAAAA

Sounds like Wes wants to give it another go.  Thought he'd be done after this year, but I see no reasons why the Bucks wouldn't want him back, and I wouldn't blame him at all for going ring chasing.  Get it done.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Mutaman on May 16, 2022, 05:24:41 PM
Patrick Beverly's appearances on ESPN this morning are must watch clips.  He makes a bunch of good points, but also just SAVAGES Chris Paul repeatedly.  Its absolutely incredible television

I guess I'll survive w/o watching this. Man am I tired of hearing about Chris Paul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 16, 2022, 07:33:55 PM
Bird is well before my time but he seemed to create much less off the dribble than Doncic both as a scorer and  passer.  He was a 3/4, Doncic is a 1/2.. I will say that Doncic's ability to get to any spot he wants is really impressive.  I think he's much stronger than people realize.  In this era his overall offensive skillset is maybe the most complete of anyone in the league and he's 6'8. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 16, 2022, 07:49:52 PM
Bird is well before my time but he seemed to create much less off the dribble than Doncic both as a scorer and  passer.  He was a 3/4, Doncic is a 1/2.. I will say that Doncic's ability to get to any spot he wants is really impressive.  I think he's much stronger than people realize.  In this era his overall offensive skillset is maybe the most complete of anyone in the league and he's 6'8. 


Bird could create off the dribble no doubt, but was much more apt to take it to the hole like a traditional wing.  Doncic isn't really that. Doncic is way more ball dominant, whereas Bird moved a lot without the ball.   

I think Bird's game is mix of Kevin Durant and Paul George.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 16, 2022, 07:57:25 PM
You're write Fluffster. Sue Bird iz a hellofa playa, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2022, 07:58:08 PM

Bird could create off the dribble no doubt, but was much more apt to take it to the hole like a traditional wing.  Doncic isn't really that. Doncic is way more ball dominant, whereas Bird moved a lot without the ball.   

I think Bird's game is mix of Kevin Durant and Paul George.

That's fair.

Bird also had McHale, Parish and DJ (among others) as teammates, so there was every reason to share the ball. If he were playing today, I think he'd be somewhat more ball-dominant, because that's the way the game is played. He'd also average way more 3s than he took (career average - 1.9 attempts per game).

There definitely are former players who were stars once upon a time but whose games wouldn't work very well now. A guy I just mentioned, Parish, is probably one. But Bird would have been a superstar today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 16, 2022, 08:27:44 PM
McHale and Parish didn't handle the ball.  No 7 footers did.   Conversely, nobody posts up any more.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2022, 08:50:31 PM
That's fair.

Bird also had McHale, Parish and DJ (among others) as teammates, so there was every reason to share the ball. If he were playing today, I think he'd be somewhat more ball-dominant, because that's the way the game is played. He'd also average way more 3s than he took (career average - 1.9 attempts per game).

There definitely are former players who were stars once upon a time but whose games wouldn't work very well now. A guy I just mentioned, Parish, is probably one. But Bird would have been a superstar today.

Agreed. Bird was an amazing passer with great vision. But the game was different, and his role fit the era. In today's game he'd be way more ball-dominant.

Some of his former teammates have also said that Doncic is modern day Bird. I think Bird's game translates very well to the current game, where he'd be a point-forward.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 16, 2022, 09:42:59 PM
Agreed. Bird was an amazing passer with great vision. But the game was different, and his role fit the era. In today's game he'd be way more ball-dominant.

Some of his former teammates have also said that Doncic is modern day Bird. I think Bird's game translates very well to the current game, where he'd be a point-forward.

I have very little doubt Bird would be a prime time player today and sort of be a combination of Durant and Jokic.  He would have taken more threes and been more ball dominant.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 17, 2022, 07:14:47 AM
Patrick Beverly's appearances on ESPN this morning are must watch clips.  He makes a bunch of good points, but also just SAVAGES Chris Paul repeatedly.  Its absolutely incredible television
The same Patrick Beverly who lost a round earlier in the playoffs, and who last year got smoked in the playoffs by Paul, and resorted to shoving him in the back. Beverly's a middling role player who is doing his job on the air now I guess, being a prick.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 17, 2022, 07:26:20 AM
You're write Fluffster. Sue Bird iz a hellofa playa, hey?

Resorting to using Capital One's lame jokes from a few weeks ago?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 17, 2022, 07:28:18 AM
That's fair.

Bird also had McHale, Parish and DJ (among others) as teammates, so there was every reason to share the ball. If he were playing today, I think he'd be somewhat more ball-dominant, because that's the way the game is played. He'd also average way more 3s than he took (career average - 1.9 attempts per game).

There definitely are former players who were stars once upon a time but whose games wouldn't work very well now. A guy I just mentioned, Parish, is probably one. But Bird would have been a superstar today.


I think Bird today wouldn't be dominant a la Doncic.  That is why I thought his game was more like Durant's or George's, who traditionally have played off the ball with occasionally taking a role at point.

In today's NBA, Bird would be very good.  A step below Durant IMO.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2022, 09:20:53 AM
The same Patrick Beverly who lost a round earlier in the playoffs, and who last year got smoked in the playoffs by Paul, and resorted to shoving him in the back. Beverly's a middling role player who is doing his job on the air now I guess, being a prick.

Yep. From The Athletic:

Beverley spent several hours trashing Paul, who faded down the stretch of the Suns’ devastating seven-game series loss to the Mavericks in the Western Conference semifinals. Beverley said Paul “can’t guard and everyone knows that” before calling the 37-year-old a “cone” akin to the ones you use in practice — motionless placeholders.

The entire NBA discourse went crazy. A few levels here:

Beverley probably won himself a media job after his playing days with the performance Monday. He clearly enjoyed being there and made for great TV.

It was also rich watching Beverley, who tops out as a great role player, criticizing a surefire Hall of Famer about losing in a playoff series when Beverley’s team lost a round earlier.

Let’s think back to a year ago, as Paul’s Suns were blowing out Beverley’s Clippers in Phoenix’s series-clinching Game 6 win in the Western Conference semifinals, when Beverley got ejected for shoving Paul in the back with five minutes left in the game. Hm!

Former NBA player Matt Barnes called out Beverley on those same ESPN airwaves later in the day. Damian Lillard chirped back, too. Paul has plenty of respect around the league.

Beverley’s only superpower is making people angry on the court, and apparently he’s just as talented in that regard off the floor, too. The cynic in me would also like to point out that Beverley helped ESPN manufacture its own news cycle, which has now exceeded 24 hours.

Don’t take him too seriously.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 17, 2022, 10:24:00 AM
The same Patrick Beverly who lost a round earlier in the playoffs, and who last year got smoked in the playoffs by Paul, and resorted to shoving him in the back. Beverly's a middling role player who is doing his job on the air now I guess, being a prick.

Not sure how that changes anything I said.  I never said it wasn't insanely petty and agenda driven, of course it was.  He hates CP3 and always has.

But at the same time, its funny to call out Beverly for pushing Paul...when Paul has been dirty his entire career. 

Beverley had issues in college, went to play in the Eastern European hinterlands, and then clawed his way into becoming a starter on playoff teams for a decade....mostly by being a defensive pest to HOFers like Paul.  Acting like he has no credibility is silly.

His point that Paul was hurting the Suns was absolutely right.  And he even acknowledged that he, himself, was benched in a similar way and that it was the right move.  People are getting bothered thinking about the collective "Chris Paul"...not the 37 year old Chris Paul who was terrible the entire Mavs series and who was a defensively liability.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 17, 2022, 11:25:16 AM
Not sure how that changes anything I said.  I never said it wasn't insanely petty and agenda driven, of course it was.  He hates CP3 and always has.

But at the same time, its funny to call out Beverly for pushing Paul...when Paul has been dirty his entire career. 

Beverley had issues in college, went to play in the Eastern European hinterlands, and then clawed his way into becoming a starter on playoff teams for a decade....mostly by being a defensive pest to HOFers like Paul.  Acting like he has no credibility is silly.

His point that Paul was hurting the Suns was absolutely right.  And he even acknowledged that he, himself, was benched in a similar way and that it was the right move.  People are getting bothered thinking about the collective "Chris Paul"...not the 37 year old Chris Paul who was terrible the entire Mavs series and who was a defensively liability.
My point is hearing a dirty middle of the road player saying the same crap about a dirty Hall of Famer as he has been saying since Beverly made the NBA isn't really must see TV or incredible, in my book.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 17, 2022, 12:20:53 PM
NBA Lottery is tonight, here's the odds and a writeup - https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

Who're you rooting for? Rooting against?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2022, 04:36:54 PM
NBA Lottery is tonight, here's the odds and a writeup - https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

Who're you rooting for? Rooting against?

Rooting for the Hornets, of course.

As for another NBA topic … will be interesting to see how much Boston has left in the tank. The Heat’s damn good, and I think they win in 5 or 6.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 17, 2022, 06:12:37 PM
Heat ain't winnin' if the C's shoot like they did vs Bucks. But, da Deers game-plan sucked major ass for a team without guards who can shoot, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 17, 2022, 06:20:04 PM
Heat in 6 or 7.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 17, 2022, 06:43:13 PM
Heat ain't winnin' if the C's shoot like they did vs Bucks. But, da Deers game-plan sucked major ass for a team without guards who can shoot, hey?

The Heat and C's both have top 5 defences. I expect the series to be a slugfest.

Heat in 3
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 17, 2022, 06:47:37 PM
C’s in 6
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 17, 2022, 08:52:15 PM
Tatum is no joke.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 17, 2022, 09:21:35 PM
Coach Spo with the coaching clinic out of halftime
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 17, 2022, 09:22:51 PM
Wow.  What a 7 mins from Miami and James Buckets!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 17, 2022, 09:51:10 PM
Jimmys 3rd qtr was one of the best both sides of the ball qtrs I have ever seen.

Completely imposed his will
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 17, 2022, 10:01:46 PM
Nice that Jimmy got to sit for so long in the 4th.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2022, 10:24:25 PM
Rough night for the Jimmy Butler haters, one of whom we have on Scoop.

He's been one of the top 3 players this postseason, along with Luka and Giannis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 17, 2022, 10:36:20 PM
Rough night for the Jimmy Butler haters, one of whom we have on Scoop.

He's been one of the top 3 players this postseason, along with Luka and Giannis.

Offense and defense included I think hes been number one.

Coming into tonight him and Luka and idential PER's. And Jimmy has a massive defensive edge.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2022, 10:41:22 PM
Offense and defense included I think hes been number one.

Coming into tonight him and Luka and idential PER's. And Jimmy has a massive defensive edge.

Great point. Jimmy was outstanding on D tonight, and he capped it with that two-handed block/steal on Pritchard in the closing minute.

If there are three better 2-way players in the NBA, I don't know who they are. He's like Sidney Moncrief in his prime.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 17, 2022, 10:47:43 PM
Great point. Jimmy was outstanding on D tonight, and he capped it with that two-handed block/steal on Pritchard in the closing minute.

If there are three better 2-way players in the NBA, I don't know who they are. He's like Sidney Moncrief in his prime.

41 points on 19 shots. Added 9 res, 5 assists, 4 steals, and 3 blocks, with only 2 TOs.

That's one hell of an efficient game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 17, 2022, 10:51:17 PM
Great point. Jimmy was outstanding on D tonight, and he capped it with that two-handed block/steal on Pritchard in the closing minute.

If there are three better 2-way players in the NBA, I don't know who they are. He's like Sidney Moncrief in his prime.

Yup. Itll definitely get tougher when Smart returns.

When Jimmy was matched with Pritchard on either end, it was truly like 5 year younger little bro trying to go against Big bro.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 18, 2022, 07:41:30 AM
Jimmy is playing a lot like Kawhi did for Toronto a few years ago. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 18, 2022, 08:30:36 AM
Jimmy is playing a lot like Kawhi did for Toronto a few years ago. 

Jimmy played great in that Raptors v Sixers series. Almost willed the Sixers to the ECF. He vibes so well with Embiid.

Really interesting to see Duncan Robinson get so many DNP CD lines in the playoffs this year. Strus' defense makes him hard to bench in favor of Duncan's offensive upside. I suppose you'd see offenses hunting Duncan every possession like you saw the Heat hunting Pritchard.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 18, 2022, 10:20:33 AM
Duncan has lottsa tyme ta chek his bank account while ridin' da pines, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 18, 2022, 10:21:50 AM
Duncan has lottsa tyme ta chek his bank account while ridin' da pines, hey?

If only I could be so lucky.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 18, 2022, 12:34:19 PM
It's not ust Strus.  Gabe Vincent can play and Oladipo is looking healthier.  MIami has great depth and a terrific coach.  They are much better defensively than Milwaukee and a significantly better 3pt shooting team.  I think the Bucks would have beaten Boston with Middleton,  but getting nothing from Allen is a big flaw on both ends of the floor.  He seemed to fold under the pressure.  The Bucks absolutely have to get a perimeter defender and a knock-down shooter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on May 18, 2022, 12:38:15 PM
It's not ust Strus.  Gabe Vincent can play and Oladipo is looking healthier.  MIami has great depth and a terrific coach.  They are much better defensively than Milwaukee and a significantly better 3pt shooting team.  I think the Bucks would have beaten Boston with Middleton,  but getting nothing from Allen is a big flaw on both ends of the floor.  He seemed to fold under the pressure.  The Bucks absolutely have to get a perimeter defender and a knock-down shooter.

The Bucks when healthy are a better defensive team than Miami. Completely different styles, though.

Agree on your last sentence.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 18, 2022, 12:42:42 PM
It's not ust Strus.  Gabe Vincent can play and Oladipo is looking healthier.  MIami has great depth and a terrific coach.  They are much better defensively than Milwaukee and a significantly better 3pt shooting team.  I think the Bucks would have beaten Boston with Middleton,  but getting nothing from Allen is a big flaw on both ends of the floor.  He seemed to fold under the pressure.  The Bucks absolutely have to get a perimeter defender and a knock-down shooter.

Vincent is good, but he's only been getting much playing time as a Lowry replacement. With a healthy Kyle Lowry and I doubt we'd see Vincent or Dipo more than 5 minutes a game.

The heat's offense is a little sluggish without Lowry, but they're getting by so far. The D doesn't miss a beat without Lowry (though he is a great 2 way PG).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 18, 2022, 12:51:53 PM
Vincent is good, but he's only been getting much playing time as a Lowry replacement. With a healthy Kyle Lowry and I doubt we'd see Vincent or Dipo more than 5 minutes a game.

The heat's offense is a little sluggish without Lowry, but they're getting by so far. The D doesn't miss a beat without Lowry (though he is a great 2 way PG).

I forgot about Lowry.  The Bucks' off-season moves and the DDV trade all looked good to me but none of them really panned out.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 18, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Resigning Bobby Portis was a good move.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 18, 2022, 12:57:05 PM
Resigning Bobby Portis was a good move.

True, but they didn't snag their two primary needs and Allen turned into a dumpster fire somewhat inexplicably.  We're talking wide open shots that teetered on shattering the backboard .
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 18, 2022, 01:01:25 PM
True, but they didn't snag their two primary needs and Allen turned into a dumpster fire somewhat inexplicably.  We're talking wide open shots that teetered on shattering the backboard .

Same thing happened with Forbes last year. Flamethrower in the first round and couldn't find his shot after that. Playoff pressure does weird things to role players.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on May 18, 2022, 03:37:55 PM
True, but they didn't snag their two primary needs and Allen turned into a dumpster fire somewhat inexplicably.  We're talking wide open shots that teetered on shattering the backboard .

Or missed the backboard, rim, and net entirely.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 18, 2022, 10:08:31 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/greenlight/status/1526984545668669441?t=KCZL9dlqNPt-ul5pqax4Bw&s=19

Luka is so awesome. So is Boban.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 19, 2022, 04:21:16 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/greenlight/status/1526984545668669441?t=KCZL9dlqNPt-ul5pqax4Bw&s=19

Luka is so awesome. So is Boban.

Boban is such a good dude. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 19, 2022, 10:08:32 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/greenlight/status/1526984545668669441?t=KCZL9dlqNPt-ul5pqax4Bw&s=19

Luka is so awesome. So is Boban.

Thats so Euro thing, love it.  Ive lost track of the number of lunches/lunch meetings Ive been to in Europe where some, if not all, of the participants had beer or wine.  And of course they were just fine to work or whatnot after.  The shocked/bothered sentiment about it in comments really shows the issue with American mindsets on alcohol. 

As for him being an athlete, most NBA players regularly take a nap on gamedays.  Im sure between the 4-5 hours before shootaround and a nap, Luka was just fine by tip.  Not to mention the best basketball player in history was pretty open about imbibing early on some game days.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2022, 01:29:06 PM
Not all that long ago plenty of athletes used to smoke DURING competition. And not just baseball, where it was quite common and where they weren’t very athletic.

Denis Savard and Murray Bannerman famously smoked between periods. I think I remember Vlade Divac being a smoker, too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 19, 2022, 01:35:15 PM
I heard a fun story about a guy in amateur tennis. The guy came to his match and saw a guy in non-tennis clothes smoking a cigarette. When he found out that was his opponents, he felt pretty good about his chances. He ended up getting beat 6-0, 6-0 and was just blown off the court. I believe it ended up being Gilles Simon.

I think we’d be surprised at what some athletes do before a game. I was pretty shocked when Jordan mentioned how many beers he drank on the course the day of a Finals game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 19, 2022, 02:01:22 PM
I think we’d be surprised at what some athletes do before a game. I was pretty shocked when Jordan mentioned how many beers he drank on the course the day of a Finals game.

I can distinctly remember 4-5 times in my early to mid 20s getting really banged up on a Saturday morning/midday day drinking session.  Then sobering up, napping, shower, eating, etc... and then playing a soccer/hockey league game in the evening before going out.

I wasn't a professional athlete, I wasn't some incredible specimen, and I also drank far more than a 250 lb guy like Luka have a couple beers at lunch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2022, 02:34:58 PM
I wasn't some incredible specimen

Don't sell yourself short, Wags, you're a tremendous slouch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2022, 03:00:34 PM
Not all that long ago plenty of athletes used to smoke DURING competition. And not just baseball, where it was quite common and where they weren’t very athletic.

Denis Savard and Murray Bannerman famously smoked between periods. I think I remember Vlade Divac being a smoker, too.

John Daly was smoking on the driving range, as he warmed up, right before his first round at the PGA today.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 19, 2022, 04:59:33 PM
I wonder if Boban will consider being one of my personal bodyguards?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 🏀 on May 19, 2022, 06:20:30 PM
I wonder if Boban will consider being one of my personal bodyguards?

He looked good in John Wick
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2022, 06:35:11 PM
John Daly was smoking on the driving range, as he warmed up, right before his first round at the PGA today.

Perfect. You can't get more athletic than John Daly!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 19, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
C's come out 9-11 from distance in the 1Q. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2022, 09:09:19 AM
Anybody else catch that Kerr's message to his team was they had to play harder and smarter?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 08:11:11 PM
Whoa....Heat up 21 after the 1st Q.  Hard to predict these games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2022, 08:34:59 PM
Crazy to see Miami throwing the ball into the post and clearing out.  Bam.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 08:38:10 PM
Crazy to see Miami throwing the ball into the post and clearing out.  Bam.

Good adjustment.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 08:43:11 PM
And then a complete lack of focus from Miami that may come back to haunt them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2022, 08:44:41 PM
Halftime arrived at a good time for Miami.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 08:59:16 PM
Jimmy out for the entire 2nd half?  WTF??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2022, 09:13:48 PM
Hard to see Miami holding on in this one.

No Jimmy.

Smart rolled his ankle bad and somehow comes back minutes later.

MO is all with Boston. Place is electric.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2022, 09:25:53 PM
Also as shocking as it is that Smart is playing right now.

It might be more shocking if he plays game 4. That thing is gonna flare up like a mofo tonight.

Hes a tough bastard so if someone can do it its him. But its pure adrenaline operating right now
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 21, 2022, 09:27:28 PM
Heat daring the refs to call fouls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2022, 09:32:04 PM
Heat daring the refs to call fouls.

That’s how they’ve played for years. Watch Bam set screens. He’d be an All NFL offensive lineman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2022, 09:38:20 PM
Gutsy of Smart to step in there, but that was not a charge. Smart moved right in Martin's way, was neither set nor in legal guarding position. Terrible.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 09:40:21 PM
The decision making by Miami is giving Boston a decent chance even with Tatum's horrific shooting.  Jimmy does pretty much everything for that team. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2022, 09:40:46 PM
Gutsy of Smart to step in there, but that was not a charge. Smart moved right in Martin's way, was neither set nor in legal guarding position. Terrible.

DPOY.

NBA rewards flopping.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 09:47:47 PM
That was a clear offensive foul. There’s a reason it wasn’t challenged.

DPOY.

NBA rewards flopping.

Smart flops. That wasn’t one of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 09:54:32 PM
Crazy stuff out there.  Tatum may have separated his shoulder.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2022, 09:56:49 PM
That was a clear offensive foul. There’s a reason it wasn’t challenged.

As you know, dozens of calls a game don't get challenged, even those that a coach is pretty sure were wrong. You only get one challenge, and most coaches save it either for the end of the game or to keep a key player from getting a 5th or 6th foul, or some other crucial situation.

As for the call itself, we'll agree to disagree on it being a "clear offensive foul." FWIW - and not that he's an expert either - but Van Gumby didn't think it was a charge.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 09:59:18 PM
As you know, dozens of calls a game don't get challenged, even those that a coach is pretty sure were wrong. You only get one challenge, and most coaches save it either for the end of the game or to keep a key player from getting a 5th or 6th foul, or some other crucial situation.

As for the call itself, we'll agree to disagree on it being a "clear offensive foul." FWIW - and not that he's an expert either - but Van Gumby didn't think it was a charge.

Cool. You’re both wrong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:01:24 PM
Cool. You’re both wrong.

No Fluffy, he's not wrong.  That was not even close to a sure offensive foul.  He was draped all over Adebayo, snapped his head back like he was run over by a Bison on the initial dribble, and was rewarded for his acting. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:02:58 PM
No Fluffy, he's not wrong.  That was not even close to a sure offensive foul.  He was draped all over Adebayo, snapped his head back lime he was run over by a Bison on the initial dribble, and was rewarded foe his acting. 

<yawn>

You’re wrong too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2022, 10:03:37 PM
No Fluffy, he's not wrong.  That was not even close to sure offensive foul.  He was draped all over Adebayo, snapped his head back lime he was run over by a Bison on the initial dribble, and was rewarded foe his acting.

I'm talking about the breakaway layup, where Smart pretty clearly moved in from the side, was still moving, and didn't get into proper defending position.

Sultan is a very confident Scooper who doesn't easily admit he's wrong. And that's OK. He's allowed his opinion.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:04:24 PM
I'm talking about the breakaway layup, where Smart pretty clearly moved in from the side, was still moving, and didn't get into proper defending position.

Sultan is a very confident Scooper who doesn't easily admit he's wrong. And that's OK. He's allowed his opinion.

Both were blocking fouls. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:04:40 PM
I'm talking about the breakaway layup, where Smart pretty clearly moved in from the side, was still moving, and didn't get into proper defending position.

Sultan is a very confident Scooper who doesn't easily admit he's wrong. And that's OK. He's allowed his opinion.

Cause I’m not wrong. It was an obvious foul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:04:56 PM
Both were blocking fouls.

Nope.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2022, 10:08:12 PM
Miami played without Jimmy for a half.

And 5 against 8 for most of the game.

Gutsy win to get home court back.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:08:21 PM
Nope.

Fluffy it's not my fault you refuse to see reality.  You have to give a guy space to move and not fall down like a toddler playing ring around the rosey.  Smart is a great player but his antics are absurd and not basketball plays.  He's basically like Carlo in the Godfather.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:09:27 PM
Fluffy it's not my fault you refuse to see reality.  You have to give a guy space to move and not fall down like a toddler playing ring around the rosey.  Smart is a great player but his antics are absurd and not basketball plays.  He's basically like Carlo in the Godfather.

Stupid analogy. Learn the game. Clear fouls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:15:01 PM
Stupid analogy. Learn the game. Clear fouls.

That's "the game"?  Oh....okay.  I didn't realize you were the head of the Society of Farces.  I'm very well versed in this sport and instead of projecting nonsense it would serve you well to watch what he actually does defensively on a lot of these plays. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:17:53 PM
That's "the game"?  Oh....okay.  I didn't realize you were the head of the Society of Farces.  I'm very well versed in this sport and instead of projecting nonsense it would serve you well to watch what he actually does defensively on a lot of these plays. 

I have yet to read a post that suggests you are “well versed in this sport.” 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2022, 10:21:17 PM
Cause I’m not wrong. It was an obvious foul. Called as such and not challenged.

You stick with the belief that EVERY call a coach chooses not to challenge is proof that EVERY such call was correct.

FWIW, I thought the one on Bam was the right call.

Meanwhile ...

The Celtics were so loose with the basketball. They truly deserve to lose.

Pretty amazing win for the Heat -- playing without Jimmy, on the road, Herro playing poorly and then apparently getting hurt, looking for most of the second half like they were gonna fold.

Tucker ... man, he's a guy I'd want on my team. I don't know that the Bucks would have won if they still had him, but not having him definitely didn't help.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:23:01 PM
I have yet to read a post that suggests you are “well versed in this sport.”

If you think Smart didn't flop on that Bam play you either refuse to see reality and are delusional or cannot admit you're wrong about anything.  That's a personal issue that may require professional help.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2022, 10:23:17 PM
That was a Heat win if I've ever seen one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:23:31 PM
You stick with the belief that EVERY call a coach chooses not to challenge is proof that EVERY such call was correct.

Nope. But that was a clear offensive foul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:24:24 PM
If you think Smart didn't flop on that Bam play you either refuse to see reality and are delusional or cannot admit you're wrong about anything.  That's a personal issue that may require professional help.

He exaggerates no doubt. But it was a clear offensive foul. Sorry you can’t see that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:24:52 PM
That was a Heat win if I've ever seen one.

Great win.  Boston is so unlikable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2022, 10:25:28 PM
I honestly have no idea what calls are even being argued.

But a lot of "Learn basketball" talk getting thrown around.

Saying a call was correct simply because the coach the call went against didnt challenge it, is defintely a top 5 comment of sports incompetence though.

Just say you think the call was correct and stop there. They get 1 challenge all game haha.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:27:18 PM
He exaggerates no doubt. But it was a clear offensive foul. Sorry you can’t see that.

"Exaggerates"??  Watch the way he snapped his head back on that play literally the second there was body contact.  I think you're just trying to instigate stuff.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2022, 10:28:18 PM
I honestly have no idea what calls are even being argued.

But a lot of "Learn basketball" talk getting thrown around.

Saying a call was correct simply because the coach the call went against didnt challenge it, is defintely a top 5 comment of sports incompetence though.

Just say you think the call was correct and stop there. They get 1 challenge all game haha.

Exactly.  What a silly argument that "it wasn't challenged".
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 21, 2022, 10:33:29 PM
I honestly have no idea what calls are even being argued.

But a lot of "Learn basketball" talk getting thrown around.

Saying a call was correct simply because the coach the call went against didnt challenge it, is defintely a top 5 comment of sports incompetence though.

Just say you think the call was correct and stop there. They get 1 challenge all game haha.

The call was correct.

I never said that the reason it was correct was because it wasn’t challenged.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 22, 2022, 06:56:35 AM
Bam lowered his shoulder into Smart's sternum.  Offensive foul.  Smart sold it. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2022, 09:31:23 AM
In regards to Smart.

When I watch him, most every call he gets whether on the offensive or defensive end is correct.

His flopping and flailing is always obnxoxious though. LIke many players.

He had an and 1 in the first half yesterday. Legit foul, legit basket(no bs NBA continuation). He was bumped at the mid range elbow. Somehow he tossed himelf about 6 feet towards the baseline, then proceed to intentionally slide all the way to the baseline crowd.

At some point some NBA players have to realize that  bulk of their last season wear and tear is from doing dumb sh it like that.

Or in the case of Embiid literally giving your 35 year old teammate a potential career ending injury.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 22, 2022, 09:55:49 AM
He had an and 1 in the first half yesterday. Legit foul, legit basket(no bs NBA continuation).

???  The continuation rule is great and should be adopted at all levels of basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2022, 10:04:45 AM
???  The continuation rule is great and should be adopted at all levels of basketball.

Nope
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 22, 2022, 10:06:31 AM
Too bad you like bad rules.

Regardless, it's a rule in the NBA and therefore should be called correctly and isn't "BS."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2022, 10:35:10 AM
Too bad you like bad rules.

Regardless, it's a rule in the NBA and therefore should be called correctly and isn't "BS."

Nope
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 22, 2022, 10:45:41 AM
Nope

So you don’t think refs should call the game the way the rules say it should be called?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2022, 10:56:06 AM
So you don’t think refs should call the game the way the rules say it should be called?

I mean that wasnt ever at any point stated
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2022, 04:38:44 PM
The Warriors won before KD, the Warriors won with KD, and now the Warriors are winning while KD is losing in Brooklyn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 23, 2022, 05:17:52 PM
The Warriors won before KD, the Warriors won with KD, and now the Warriors are winning while KD is losing in Brooklyn.

The Warriors, most nights, play such beautiful team basketball. It's a joy to watch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 23, 2022, 06:14:42 PM
The Warriors won before KD, the Warriors won with KD, and now the Warriors are winning while KD is losing in Brooklyn.

This is such a lazy hot take you're better than.

The Nets were a KD big toe away from the ECF where they would have rolled the Hawks just like the Bucks did.

This year he again put up all NBA numbers but had a mediocre coach and F'd up roster to contend with.  One that he didn't player-GM himself.  I love the Warriors, I love Kerr, I love Steph and Klay, but this is the first time they'd had success without Durant since he left.  And as good as they were without him, they don't win some of the titles they did without him.

You can praise the resiliance and rebuild of the Warriors organization with new pieces like Poole and somehow turning Wiggins into a contributor on a title contending team...without needing to take a shot at KD.  Leave terrible basketball hot takes to idiots like Nick Wright.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 23, 2022, 06:25:36 PM
The Warriors won before KD, the Warriors won with KD, and now the Warriors are winning while KD is losing in Brooklyn.

My guess is that KD will retire with the Warriors being the only champion he played with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 07:18:54 PM
The Warriors won before KD, the Warriors won with KD, and now the Warriors are winning while KD is losing in Brooklyn.

The Warriors' system is unlike any other team in the league.  Obviously Curry is extraordinary.  He probably the greatest small (under 6'4) of all-time and arguably in the top 10 ever discussion.  He's without question top 3 of his era.  But all that said and when you add Klay and Draymond, it's the contributions they get 4-10 that separates them from the pack.

It's worth noting we don't even mention. how good Looney has been. In the playoffs.  He's been. outstanding and completely understands his role.  He's highly underrated as an all-around rebounder and defender.   Porter has been productive and Wiggins was an all-star this year.  Every player on that team contributes which is highly unusual.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 23, 2022, 07:55:34 PM
My guess is that KD will retire with the Warriors being the only champion he played with.

I’m thinking that says more about the difficulty to win a championship than KD.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 07:56:14 PM
Miami with 1 point in 7 mins.  Smh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 08:28:34 PM
I still can't figure out why some  fully vaccinated coaches, are wearing a cloth mask and moving it up and down, during the course of the game.  Seriously, it's fking weird.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 23, 2022, 08:31:57 PM
I still can't figure out why some  fully vaccinated coaches, are wearing a cloth mask and moving it up and down, during the course of the game.  Seriously, it's fking weird.

Why are you bringing this up here?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 08:34:03 PM
Why are you bringing this up here?

Because it's totally bizarre.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 23, 2022, 08:35:04 PM
Because It's totally bizarre.

And not really relevant to the topic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 08:37:08 PM
And not really relevant to the topic.

You don't think it's weird Fluffy?   It's relevant because they keep showing it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 23, 2022, 08:39:56 PM
You don't think it's weird Fluffy?   It's relevant because they keep showing it.

It’s fine. No reason to be judgmental about  it.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 08:41:20 PM
It’s fine. No reason to be judgmental about  it.

We'll agree to disagree.  It's not fine.  It's bizarre as fk and should be highlighted for the general public. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 23, 2022, 08:43:49 PM
We'll agree to disagree.  It's not fine.  It's bizarre as fk and should be highlighted for the general public. 

You’re insufferable
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 08:48:56 PM
You’re insufferable

I'm 100% sure you agree with me because you have a scintilla of intelligence.  Why don't you just admit it's beyond bizarre and free yourself of la-la land narratives?  Believe me you will feel better Fluffy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 23, 2022, 08:57:51 PM
I'm 100% sure you agree with me because you have a scintilla of intelligence.  Why don't you just admit it's beyond bizarre and free yourself of la-la land narratives?  Believe me you will feel better Fluffy.

Nobody cares
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 23, 2022, 09:21:22 PM
This is such a lazy hot take you're better than.

The Nets were a KD big toe away from the ECF where they would have rolled the Hawks just like the Bucks did.

This year he again put up all NBA numbers but had a mediocre coach and F'd up roster to contend with.  One that he didn't player-GM himself.  I love the Warriors, I love Kerr, I love Steph and Klay, but this is the first time they'd had success without Durant since he left.  And as good as they were without him, they don't win some of the titles they did without him.

You can praise the resiliance and rebuild of the Warriors organization with new pieces like Poole and somehow turning Wiggins into a contributor on a title contending team...without needing to take a shot at KD.  Leave terrible basketball hot takes to idiots like Nick Wright.

Jwags. This is a lazy hot take.

Prior to Durant coming, the GSWs set an all time best record. After he left they have never been healthy.

In 19/20, Klay was out all year and Curry only played 5-games.
In 20/21, Klay was out all year (without one of their big 3, they still made the play-in tournament).

This is the first year they have had a healthy roster. Even then, Klay was out the majority of the year. They are back to being dominant, despite significant injuries to the team all year long.

Comparing post-Durant Warriors to the Durant Warriors based on horrifically bad injury luck is a lazy hot take.

A healthy GSW team wins championships. The only seasons they lost were injury laden post-seasons.

Durant made the Warriors better, but it was not that large a bump as only one person can have the ball at a time. What it gave them is another elite player to offset any injuries or off days by Curry/Klay, but the net team was only marginally better.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 23, 2022, 09:25:58 PM
GSW have won championships without KD and may do the same this year.  KD has not won without GSW.   Very talented player, no doubt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 23, 2022, 09:36:20 PM
The Celtics are crazy unlikable.  Hopefully it's the Heat in 6/7.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 23, 2022, 10:12:44 PM
Jwags. This is a lazy hot take.

Prior to Durant coming, the GSWs set an all time best record. After he left they have never been healthy.

In 19/20, Klay was out all year and Curry only played 5-games.
In 20/21, Klay was out all year (without one of their big 3, they still made the play-in tournament).

This is the first year they have had a healthy roster. Even then, Klay was out the majority of the year. They are back to being dominant, despite significant injuries to the team all year long.

Comparing post-Durant Warriors to the Durant Warriors based on horrifically bad injury luck is a lazy hot take.

A healthy GSW team wins championships. The only seasons they lost were injury laden post-seasons.

Durant made the Warriors better, but it was not that large a bump as only one person can have the ball at a time. What it gave them is another elite player to offset any injuries or off days by Curry/Klay, but the net team was only marginally better.

Stop it. They were SIGNIFICANTLY better with KD. Yes, they were great before him and are looking great again now without him. But what went from a great but beatable team (Houston had them on the brink twice, the Cavs beat them once) to completely unbeatable with KD.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 23, 2022, 10:31:57 PM
Stop it. They were SIGNIFICANTLY better with KD. Yes, they were great before him and are looking great again now without him. But what went from a great but beatable team (Houston had them on the brink twice, the Cavs beat them once) to completely unbeatable with KD.

They lost in 2019. They were taken to game 7 by Houston in 2018.

The 2016 team that Cleveland beat was a hobbled Curry (injured himself in the 1st round series and wasn't the same). That 2016 was unbeatable until Curry was injured.

I'm not taking away anything from Durant at all. I love Durant. It is just at a certain point that adding additional stars only adds marginal improvement, because the ball can only be in one players hands at a time. The offense can only improve marginally, the defense in theory can improve more, but that would require an elite defender.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 23, 2022, 10:41:14 PM
They lost in 2019. They were taken to game 7 by Houston in 2018.

The 2016 team that Cleveland beat was a hobbled Curry (injured himself in the 1st round series and wasn't the same). That 2016 was unbeatable until Curry was injured.

I'm not taking away anything from Durant at all. I love Durant. It is just at a certain point that adding additional stars only adds marginal improvement, because the ball can only be in one players hands at a time. The offense can only improve marginally, the defense in theory can improve more, but that would require an elite defender.

You can’t call someone out for ignoring injuries and then ignore that they lost in 2019 because KD tore his Achilles and Klay tore his ACL. KD played 12 total minutes in that series and Klay missed the last game and a half.

Steph sprained his ankle on April 18, 2016. The Warriors had a 3-1 series lead in the NBA Finals on the morning of June 13, 2016. He averaged 31 points per game in games 2-4 of that Finals. The ankle seemed just fine. Steph’s sprained ankle was not why the Warriors didn’t win that NBA Finals. They got beat by an equally good team. The next two years the same Cavs team had absolutely no chance whatsoever. They were 32-6 in the Playoffs the two years they had a healthy roster when KD was on the team.

They were WAY better with KD than they were before him and than they are now. Which is saying a LOT because they were incredible before he joined and are great now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2022, 11:12:55 PM
It wasn't a "hot take," it was a fact, every single word of it.

And I like KD, and think he'll retire as an all-time great. Those Warriors teams were great to watch. It's nonetheless a fact that while his current effed-up Nets team -- one he left GS for and one he helped put together -- barely made the playoffs and then was swept aside, his former team is on the cusp of another title.

That he was a big toe away from beating the Bucks is immaterial. Everybody who loses has an excuse or two or 10. Whose fault was it that he didn't have his big toe behind the freakin' line?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 24, 2022, 01:03:28 AM
It wasn't a "hot take," it was a fact, every single word of it.

And I like KD, and think he'll retire as an all-time great. Those Warriors teams were great to watch. It's nonetheless a fact that while his current effed-up Nets team -- one he left GS for and one he helped put together -- barely made the playoffs and then was swept aside, his former team is on the cusp of another title.

That he was a big toe away from beating the Bucks is immaterial. Everybody who loses has an excuse or two or 10. Whose fault was it that he didn't have his big toe behind the freakin' line?

You know perfectly well you wrote it as a slight to Durant.  Barely losing to the Bucks is not immaterial    Cause you made it seem like he’s floundered while his former team has cruised. He had a 48 win team that barely lost to the NBA champs.

KD didn’t injure Joe Harris.  KD didn’t sideline Kyrie due to Covid most of the year.  Nor did he trade a star for a player who decided to not play an entire year.  We can say “oh the Warriors didn’t have Klay last year, doesn’t count” but then be like “oh KD can’t win without the Warriors” when his team is f’d up.

Again, it’s REALLY hard to make the Finals, much less win.  The Warriors are an incredible organization with a culture and a plan that allowed them to restructure and reconfigure.  Which is super admirable and amazing to watch.  None of that needs to be at the expense of KD for cheap talking points 3 years after he left.  It’s odd that 2 people who “like/love KD” are needing to revel in or be very matter of fact about him not making a finals after leaving GS and ignore any peripheral details that may have contributed to that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 24, 2022, 04:22:03 AM
Der beain' xtra karefull, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2022, 06:11:37 AM
We'll agree to disagree.  It's not fine.  It's bizarre as fk and should be highlighted for the general public.

Nah, not really.  To each their own.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 24, 2022, 08:34:36 AM
You can’t call someone out for ignoring injuries and then ignore that they lost in 2019 because KD tore his Achilles and Klay tore his ACL. KD played 12 total minutes in that series and Klay missed the last game and a half.

Steph sprained his ankle on April 18, 2016. The Warriors had a 3-1 series lead in the NBA Finals on the morning of June 13, 2016. He averaged 31 points per game in games 2-4 of that Finals. The ankle seemed just fine. Steph’s sprained ankle was not why the Warriors didn’t win that NBA Finals. They got beat by an equally good team. The next two years the same Cavs team had absolutely no chance whatsoever. They were 32-6 in the Playoffs the two years they had a healthy roster when KD was on the team.

They were WAY better with KD than they were before him and than they are now. Which is saying a LOT because they were incredible before he joined and are great now.

Steph sprained his knee in round 1 of the 2016 playoffs (same injury as Middleton). Rushed back because they needed him. Despite still doing well, he was not himself. He didn't have the mobility he needed in that series. It was particularly evident as the series went on. A healthy Steph and they might have swept Cleveland.

And I disregarded injuries in my second post, because it appeared to me as if you were disregarding injuries in your analysis...see 2016.

Regarding "way better" their record was worse. Their parts were way better, the sum of the parts was negligibly better.

This isn't a knock on KD. Had Steph come to a pre-made team of KD, Klay, and Green, Steph would have only made the team marginally better too. It is simply a fact of incremental benefit, beyond a certain point, of adding more elite talent. Elite talent needs the ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 24, 2022, 08:46:02 AM
You can’t call someone out for ignoring injuries and then ignore that they lost in 2019 because KD tore his Achilles and Klay tore his ACL. KD played 12 total minutes in that series and Klay missed the last game and a half.

Steph sprained his ankle on April 18, 2016. The Warriors had a 3-1 series lead in the NBA Finals on the morning of June 13, 2016. He averaged 31 points per game in games 2-4 of that Finals. The ankle seemed just fine. Steph’s sprained ankle was not why the Warriors didn’t win that NBA Finals. They got beat by an equally good team. The next two years the same Cavs team had absolutely no chance whatsoever. They were 32-6 in the Playoffs the two years they had a healthy roster when KD was on the team.

They were WAY better with KD than they were before him and than they are now. Which is saying a LOT because they were incredible before he joined and are great now.


Yeah I gotta agree with this.  Their regular season record was worse no doubt, but that 2017 team lost *one* playoff game.  The 2018 team was taken to 7 by a darn good Rockets team in the WCF but other than that cruised.  I think both 2017 and 2018 were better than 2016 despite the regular season record.

Put it another way, if you have KD on that 2016 team, they aren't losing a 3-1 lead to the Cavs. 

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 24, 2022, 08:49:55 AM
Steph sprained his knee in round 1 of the 2016 playoffs (same injury as Middleton). Rushed back because they needed him. Despite still doing well, he was not himself. He didn't have the mobility he needed in that series. It was particularly evident as the series went on. A healthy Steph and they might have swept Cleveland.

And I disregarded injuries in my second post, because it appeared to me as if you were disregarding injuries in your analysis...see 2016.

Regarding "way better" their record was worse. Their parts were way better, the sum of the parts was negligibly better.

This isn't a knock on KD. Had Steph come to a pre-made team of KD, Klay, and Green, Steph would have only made the team marginally better too. It is simply a fact of incremental benefit, beyond a certain point, of adding more elite talent. Elite talent needs the ball.

Sorry, I forgot it was knee and not ankle.  I don't know if he was "rushed back" or not, but he returned for game 4 of the very next round against the Blazers while the Warriors were leading the series 2-1 (and went on to win 4-1).  The Warriors certainly didn't "need him" at that point.

Overall I just couldn't disagree more.  The regular season means nothing.  Look at the Bucks.  They had by far the best record in basketball for two straight years, and then lost in the Playoffs.  Then they had the 3 seed in the East and won the title.  Look at what the Cavs did basically every year with LeBron.  They'd be the 4 seed and then just run through the East in the Playoffs.  The regular season record means very little.  To me, the Warriors went from being the best team in the league with 3 or 4 teams (depending on the year, Rockets, Spurs, Cavs, etc.) being good enough to steal a series from them, to being so far better than the rest of the League that they needed at least one major injury, and possibly multiple, for teams to have a chance to knock them out of the Playoffs.  I think it was a LOT more than marginally better with KD.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2022, 09:46:34 AM
You know perfectly well you wrote it as a slight to Durant.  Barely losing to the Bucks is not immaterial    Cause you made it seem like he’s floundered while his former team has cruised. He had a 48 win team that barely lost to the NBA champs.

KD didn’t injure Joe Harris.  KD didn’t sideline Kyrie due to Covid most of the year.  Nor did he trade a star for a player who decided to not play an entire year.  We can say “oh the Warriors didn’t have Klay last year, doesn’t count” but then be like “oh KD can’t win without the Warriors” when his team is f’d up.

Again, it’s REALLY hard to make the Finals, much less win.  The Warriors are an incredible organization with a culture and a plan that allowed them to restructure and reconfigure.  Which is super admirable and amazing to watch.  None of that needs to be at the expense of KD for cheap talking points 3 years after he left.  It’s odd that 2 people who “like/love KD” are needing to revel in or be very matter of fact about him not making a finals after leaving GS and ignore any peripheral details that may have contributed to that.

There are always peripheral details. KD's a hell of a player. Maybe he'll win it all next season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 24, 2022, 08:39:39 PM
Dallas role players with a solid first quarter
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 24, 2022, 10:08:56 PM
Dallas role players with a solid first quarter

Dallas role players with an outstanding 3 quarters.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 25, 2022, 09:18:08 PM
Crazy/Ugly G5 in Miami.  Heat 5-33 from distance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 25, 2022, 10:08:39 PM
7 for 45??   Whatever happened to a diversified offense?   That was an abysmal performance by Miami. 

Who ya got?  Dubs or Celtics?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 25, 2022, 10:25:13 PM
7 for 45??   Whatever happened to a diversified offense?   That was an abysmal performance by Miami. 

Who ya got?  Dubs or Celtics?

I’ll wait until Boston actually wins this series to make a prediction for the next round. The Heat have already shown they can win in Boston.

But yes, Miami was a disaster tonight, especially in the second half.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 25, 2022, 10:30:39 PM
That was one of the worst basketball games I’ve watched in awhile.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 25, 2022, 10:31:57 PM
I’ll wait until Boston actually wins this series to make a prediction for the next round. The Heat have already shown they can win in Boston.

But yes, Miami was a disaster tonight, especially in the second half.

The Miami backcourt starters were 0-15 and 0-11 from three.  That will never happen again in NBA history.  In general the Conf Finals have been duddish and I didn't expect that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2022, 05:10:55 AM
The Miami backcourt starters were 0-15 and 0-11 from three.  That will never happen again in NBA history.  In general the Conf Finals have been duddish and I didn't expect that.

I did.  Dallas is an ok team.  Golden State is much better. The Heat and Celtics are boring and ugly
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2022, 08:16:30 PM
Is there something Stan Van Gundy adds to the broadcast that I'm missing?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2022, 08:25:45 PM
Apparently.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2022, 08:26:19 PM
When I look at the NBA today I'm honestly wondering if Duncan, Shaq, maybe Kareem, could play their game?  Obviously, no one playing now could guard them but they wouldn't be able to guard the perimeter.  Here's the thing though:  when  most teams are bricking threes they really don't have option B.  Even the Bucks with Giannis can't win vs elite teams without draining 10+ triples.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2022, 08:34:23 PM
Apparently.

Maybe a mustache quota?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 26, 2022, 10:20:09 PM
Old School Klay showed up to close out the series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2022, 10:57:10 PM
Old School Klay showed up to close out the series.

Big probs for Boston or Miami if Klay is old Klay. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2022, 06:36:28 AM
GS gets healthy, replaces KD with Wiggins, goes back to the finals.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 27, 2022, 07:20:22 AM
GS gets healthy, replaces KD with Wiggins, goes back to the finals.
It's scary when Steph is the 5th leading scorer, and they still win by double digits. Wiggins showing why he was a top pick. A much better player than his dad, Mitchell.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2022, 07:36:12 AM
When I look at the NBA today I'm honestly wondering if Duncan, Shaq, maybe Kareem, could play their game?  Obviously, no one playing now could guard them but they wouldn't be able to guard the perimeter.  Here's the thing though:  when  most teams are bricking threes they really don't have option B.  Even the Bucks with Giannis can't win vs elite teams without draining 10+ triples.

That has been discussed with regularity.    Today's game does not lend itself to post ups or physical post defense.    They would have to adapt their games, and their teammates would have to adapt, too.   IMO, they are all talented enough that if they had been raised in the culture that has lead to today's game, i.e. bigs having to be multi-dimensional and handle the ball, they would have been fine.     

The ones that I question are the Elgin Baylor's, the Oscar Robertson's.   I don't know if the original power guards could dominate in today's NBA.    6'5 and 220 is not big for a guard anymore.       I think they would be successful, but today everybody is doing what they did.

I also wonder about the bruisers.    The Oakley's, Mason's, Mahorn's, Rambis's, Wallace's.    Could they find a place? 

Conversely, what does Ralph Sampson with good knees look like in today's NBA?

Or a player that was maligned at the time, Brad Sellers? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 27, 2022, 09:01:53 AM
I think the Celtics need to close out their series tonight.

Every extra day of rest that the Warriors get will make it more difficult for the Celtics to win.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 27, 2022, 10:26:37 AM
GS gets healthy, replaces KD with Wiggins, goes back to the finals.

But also drafted Jordan Poole.  Those together made up the difference, as opposed to a one for one swap.  Also remarkable that all this is being done with a #2 pick who hasn't really played since he was drafted.

While we knew they were never gonna win (and it only went to 5 so GS could have another home game), what a credit to Luka that they even got there.  That Mavs roster is so pedestrian.  Who is their second best player, Brunson?  He's a nice piece, but he's not a second star on a championship team good.  Neither is Dinwiddie post injuries.  They have some work to do in the offseason
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 01:50:19 PM
But also drafted Jordan Poole.  Those together made up the difference, as opposed to a one for one swap.  Also remarkable that all this is being done with a #2 pick who hasn't really played since he was drafted.

While we knew they were never gonna win (and it only went to 5 so GS could have another home game), what a credit to Luka that they even got there.  That Mavs roster is so pedestrian.  Who is their second best player, Brunson?  He's a nice piece, but he's not a second star on a championship team good.  Neither is Dinwiddie post injuries.  They have some work to do in the offseason

Ya......it's not just Wiggins replacing Durant.  Poole has been enormous and Looney is a much, much, better player.  Their  other bench players are also better than those they had had with Durant.  Heck, Juan can't even get on the floor and he's pretty damn good as a  11/12th guy.  They seemingly have 8 guys who can drain triples with Green/Looney.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 01:55:04 PM
It's too bad Middleton got hurt because I really think Bucks/Warriors would be a compelling Finals. Giannis would be an absolute match-up nightmare for them but as we saw vs Boston the Bucks don't defend the triple well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2022, 03:01:51 PM
Report out of Miami says that 4 starters and Herro would all be sitting if it were the regular season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 03:12:26 PM
Report out of Miami says that 4 starters and Herro would all be sitting if it were the regular season.

Weird.  Whatever happened to durability?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 27, 2022, 03:23:13 PM
Weird.  Whatever happened to durability?

???  Injuries have always been part of the league.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 27, 2022, 03:32:18 PM
Weird.  Whatever happened to durability?
They're playing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 27, 2022, 04:30:03 PM
Weird.  Whatever happened to durability?

3 seasons in 20 months. Bodies need recovery time especially in a sport as taxing as hoops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on May 27, 2022, 06:26:14 PM
???  Injuries have always been part of the league.

Also, I don’t think the bar to sit out a Regular Season game is all that high anymore. Not saying in a bad way, just that’s not really much of a barometer at this point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 27, 2022, 06:47:21 PM
Heat in 7
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on May 27, 2022, 07:06:10 PM
When I look at the NBA today I'm honestly wondering if Duncan, Shaq, maybe Kareem, could play their game?  Obviously, no one playing now could guard them but they wouldn't be able to guard the perimeter.  Here's the thing though:  when  most teams are bricking threes they really don't have option B.  Even the Bucks with Giannis can't win vs elite teams without draining 10+ triples.

athletes.
That has been discussed with regularity.    Today's game does not lend itself to post ups or physical post defense.    They would have to adapt their games, and their teammates would have to adapt, too.   IMO, they are all talented enough that if they had been raised in the culture that has lead to today's game, i.e. bigs having to be multi-dimensional and handle the ball, they would have been fine.     

The ones that I question are the Elgin Baylor's, the Oscar Robertson's.   I don't know if the original power guards could dominate in today's NBA.    6'5 and 220 is not big for a guard anymore.       I think they would be successful, but today everybody is doing what they did.

I also wonder about the bruisers.    The Oakley's, Mason's, Mahorn's, Rambis's, Wallace's.    Could they find a place? 

Conversely, what does Ralph Sampson with good knees look like in today's NBA?

Or a player that was maligned at the time, Brad Sellers? 

I think all of those guys would convert their games to the modern format . They were elite athletes and incredibly knowledgeable about how the game was played. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 07:23:45 PM
Michael Wilbon just said that if Curry wins a 4th ring  he might move him ahead of Julius Erving.  Thx Wilbon.  Good grief. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 07:25:12 PM
Heat in 7

Boy I hope you're right.  Jimmy may need 40 tonight?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 07:29:10 PM
Darvin Ham is the new Lakers coach.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on May 27, 2022, 07:42:14 PM
Darvin Ham is the new Lakers coach.
Tremendous opportunity for Darvin.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 07:49:56 PM
Tremendous opportunity for Darvin.
.

It's a tough gig Herman if they don't drastically change their roster.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 27, 2022, 07:52:35 PM
Report out of Miami says that 4 starters and Herro would all be sitting if it were the regular season.

What ever happened to Heat Culture?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 08:34:28 PM
Wow is Boston unlikable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 27, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
every time someone's face catches a whiff of air, they go down like a soccer player needing a stretcher... hesoos maria
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 08:40:49 PM
Jimmy just isn't getting enough help.  Strus and Adebayo have been utter disasters offensively.  Clearly Spo loves Strus but he has to get someone out there that can make a shot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 09:43:04 PM
Grant Williams complained about a foul call?  Shocking.  Hopefully Miami finds a way to pull this off.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 10:17:17 PM
BAM!!  JIMMY!!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 10:24:23 PM
I have never seen a team conplain about calls more than the Celtics.  Ever.

What an epic performance by Jimmy Buckets tonight. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Ardmore Mug on May 27, 2022, 10:25:52 PM
Refs trying to help the NBA get their wish that the C's Win ! ! ! Go HEAT !!!  Win game 7 in MIA ! ! !  8-)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 27, 2022, 10:28:45 PM
Nice for Jimmy to get some rest the last 8 seconds of the 2nd half. What a gutsy performance to force a game 7.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 10:29:38 PM
Sweet shout out from Jimmy to D.Wade!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 27, 2022, 10:30:16 PM
J.F.B.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 10:31:34 PM
Nice for Jimmy to get some rest the last 8 seconds of the 2nd half. What a gutsy performance to force a game 7.

Quick turnaround.  Will someone else on Miami show up Sunday??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 27, 2022, 10:44:58 PM
I have never seen a team conplain about calls more than the Celtics.  Ever.

What an epic performance by Jimmy Buckets tonight.

Their fans mirror them.  It’s been absolutely shameful how every game the Cs lose is supposedly because of bad officiating and a conspiracy against them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 27, 2022, 10:48:00 PM
Boy I hope you're right.  Jimmy may need 40 tonight?

Good thing he got over 40. What a stat line for him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 27, 2022, 11:34:33 PM
Odds

Mr. Bias ever shows his face again??
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 27, 2022, 11:43:02 PM
Their fans mirror them.  It’s been absolutely shameful how every game the Cs lose is supposedly because of bad officiating and a conspiracy against them.

Did you see that Smart complained about his foul call when the game was over with under 10 secs to go?  I'm serious JWags.  It's at the point where if one of their players or Udoka don't cry about a call it's highly unusual.   Honestly it's a total embarrassment.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 28, 2022, 12:49:33 AM
Did you see that Smart complained about his foul call when the game was over with under 10 secs to go?  I'm serious JWags.  It's at the point where if one of their players or Udoka don't cry about a call it's highly unusual.   Honestly it's a total embarrassment.

I don't understand how several of them didn't get T'd up. At one point Grant Williams was bitching at the refs incessantly, the coach pulled him, and he continued to berate a ref from the bench for an entire possession.

Draymond would have been ejected for that. But nothing.

On more than one occasion Tatum was jumping up and down complaining and throwing a temper tantrum like a two year old. Nothing. I've seen at least two T's in this playoff just for jumping up and down after a call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on May 28, 2022, 05:15:06 AM
Maybe they can be shown how to write letters to complain about their. mistreatment.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 28, 2022, 07:18:21 AM
Maybe they can be shown how to write letters to complain about their. mistreatment.

Maybe.  I've never seen anything like it Tower.  It's literally every call and pretty much every player besides Horford.  Again, we all know there's a kot of complaining but this is different.  It's as if they expect all contact plays on both ends of the floor to go their way.  I'm honestly surprised the national media isn't on this nonsense.  The Van Gundy Brothers often give them a pass or conjure things out of thin air.  When JVG stated Williams didn't foul JFB on that late and-1 I was dumbfounded.  Breen corrected him after the replay which showed that he clearly got him on the elbow but old Jeff still wouldn't admit his mistake.  I'm just so sick of their garbage.  And Smart and Williams are the absolute worst and their crap shouldn't be permitted without teeing them up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 28, 2022, 08:58:23 AM
I don't understand how several of them didn't get T'd up. At one point Grant Williams was bitching at the refs incessantly, the coach pulled him, and he continued to berate a ref from the bench for an entire possession.

NBA refs are quite tolerant, especially late in close games. Although yes, certain players get punished for their reputations. Arguing similar to what leads to T's for Green (or led to T's for Rodman) doesn't to others.

But the Grant Williams situation you describe ... that was one last night where I said out loud, "I can't believe he's not getting T'd up."

The Celtics are an extremely unlikable team, and I'm hoping Jimmy gets enough help to send 'em packing tomorrow night.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on May 28, 2022, 09:52:56 AM
Odds

Mr. Bias ever shows his face again??

Hi.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 08:14:05 PM
BIg probs for Miami.  It needs to be within 8-10 points minimum bu halftime.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 08:27:04 PM
Once again, JFB is getting 0.0000000 help.  I would have a rather animated discussion with the rest of this team if I was Spo.  I honestly don't know what more Jimmy can do.  Someone really needs to wake up for them to have a shot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 08:45:43 PM
What more can one man do??  Jimmy single handedly keeping Miami within range.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on May 29, 2022, 08:52:03 PM
What more can one man do??  Jimmy single handedly keeping Miami within range.
Heat only down 6 at half. This is a game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 29, 2022, 09:25:21 PM
Tatum might wanna think about stopping falling on every shot and get back and play defense. Really hurting Boston’s defense tonite.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 09:33:11 PM
Jimmy has been extraordinary.  It really about whether he can get any help from any of Miami's guards.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 09:49:23 PM
It's pretty clear Herro can't go and despite his big contract Spo doesn't trust Duncan R.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 29, 2022, 10:13:40 PM
Wow.  Surprised Jimmy pulled from. 3 there. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 30, 2022, 05:37:27 AM
He hit a very similar shot earlier in the game that both Jackson and Van Gundy praised. But since he missed, they had a different opinion on this one. I thought it was fine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on May 30, 2022, 07:25:55 AM
I was fine with it. Miami was gassed. They wouldn't have had a great chance in OT if it got there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 30, 2022, 08:52:15 AM
He hit a very similar shot earlier in the game that both Jackson and Van Gundy praised. But since he missed, they had a different opinion on this one. I thought it was fine.

I was fine with it but I do think Horford was back pedaling and he had a clear path to the rim.  You live with your best player taking that shot for sure but I really thought he would go strong to the bucket there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on May 30, 2022, 09:40:10 AM
Yup yup. Feel like that shot was the basketball equivalent of scoring a late TD to go down one as a big underdog and then going for two.  For my money, the fact that he missed short is ironically kind of indicative of why it was a fine shot to take.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 30, 2022, 09:43:20 AM
Lot of Twitter talk about Strup’s three that was taken off the board but that seemed to be a good call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 30, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
Lot of Twitter talk about Strup’s three that was taken off the board but that seemed to be a good call.

Spo had some interesting comments on that.  It was clearly the right call but it was taken off the board after a significant period of time.  It did somewhat thwart the momentum they got after the shot was ruled good.  I'm also wondering if all oob plays are reviewable at any time?  Because I recall seeing many games where there are missed our of bounds calls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 30, 2022, 11:42:54 AM
Lot of Twitter talk about Strup’s three that was taken off the board but that seemed to be a good call.

The biggest question is why was it reviewed at all. There was no challenge. And in the Memphis vs. GSW series, they couldn't review an out of bounds call late in the game (clearly off Memphis) and said jump ball instead.

And while I think it was a good call, it was super close on whether his heel/foot ever did make contact with the actual line. I've seen several of those heel over the line, but good 3's because they decided it didn't touch, just hovered above the line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 30, 2022, 12:16:29 PM
The biggest question is why was it reviewed at all. There was no challenge. And in the Memphis vs. GSW series, they couldn't review an out of bounds call late in the game (clearly off Memphis) and said jump ball instead.

And while I think it was a good call, it was super close on whether his heel/foot ever did make contact with the actual line. I've seen several of those heel over the line, but good 3's because they decided it didn't touch, just hovered above the line.

I was wondering the same thing.  Is it because they look back on 3pt shots and whether they are behind the line? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 30, 2022, 01:48:22 PM
The biggest question is why was it reviewed at all. There was no challenge. And in the Memphis vs. GSW series, they couldn't review an out of bounds call late in the game (clearly off Memphis) and said jump ball instead.

And while I think it was a good call, it was super close on whether his heel/foot ever did make contact with the actual line. I've seen several of those heel over the line, but good 3's because they decided it didn't touch, just hovered above the line.

It’s legit by the rules to review if they step on lines.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on May 30, 2022, 01:53:45 PM
Shot was fine. He had Horford on his heels. Problem is he rushed it. Had plenty of time but he acted as if the clock was at about 2 and winding down. That’s probably as open of a shot as they would’ve gotten, plus gives you time if you miss.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on May 30, 2022, 02:14:28 PM
Disappointed in the series Bam had. Heat desperately needed him at his best.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 30, 2022, 04:12:08 PM
Shot was fine. He had Horford on his heels. Problem is he rushed it. Had plenty of time but he acted as if the clock was at about 2 and winding down. That’s probably as open of a shot as they would’ve gotten, plus gives you time if you miss.

I think the shot was fine but if you really think about it when was the last time Jimmy pulled up from 3 off the dribble going downhill?   What I'm saying is there are different types of 3's and the most difficult is probably a triple off the dribble, in a semi-transtion opportunity, going relatively fast to stop and pop.  It's just not his game imo and wasn't a rhythm triple.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 30, 2022, 05:01:53 PM
I think the shot was fine but if you really think about it when was the last time Jimmy pulled up from 3 off the dribble going downhill? 

Yesterday in the first half I believe.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 30, 2022, 06:07:28 PM
Yesterday in the first half I believe.

He hit one in the first half from the right side that I suppose was semi-similar.  I thought this was more of a transition triple.  I'm just pissed the Celtics won.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on May 31, 2022, 10:16:06 AM
I didn't listen to the whole pod, cause I'm not interested in having my ears bleed, but it was SUPER rich to hear a clip of Russillo on Bill Simmons complaining together about Kyle Lowry flopping too much and the refs screwing the Celtics.  You just made the NBA finals for the first time in over a decade, with a team that is predicated on "tough defense" yet guys like Smart and Grant Williams, built like tanks, flop constantly....yet you feel the need to still complain about officials and how everyone is against you.

Everything related to the Celtics STINKS...including otherwise incredible Tatum posting SUPPPPPEEEERR cringey pictures of texts he sent to Kobe's phone number before the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 31, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
It’s legit by the rules to review if they step on lines.
Out of bounds calls are not automatically reviewed-only reviewed on a coaches challenge (pace of play rule). It was reviewed to see if it was a 2 or 3. Which is crazy because he was not even close to the line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 31, 2022, 03:31:42 PM
Out of bounds calls are not automatically reviewed-only reviewed on a coaches challenge (pace of play rule). It was reviewed to see if it was a 2 or 3. Which is crazy because he was not even close to the line.

Correct.  You stated this better than me because I tried to answer quickly on my phone.  If it is reviewed as a 2 or 3, that opens it up to a more full review.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 31, 2022, 04:36:39 PM
Out of bounds calls are not automatically reviewed-only reviewed on a coaches challenge (pace of play rule). It was reviewed to see if it was a 2 or 3. Which is crazy because he was not even close to the line.

Common practice. If one official thinks the shot was questionable, they signal the scorers table to check it at the next time out.

It’s almost always about whether a foot was on the 3 point line, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 31, 2022, 06:59:01 PM
Common practice. If one official thinks the shot was questionable, they signal the scorers table to check it at the next time out.

It’s almost always about whether a foot was on the 3 point line, though.
How many instances can you recall that the official, after review,  waived off the shot.completely because someone stepped out of bounds. First time I have witnessed it. Its common to check for a two or three.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on May 31, 2022, 07:00:18 PM
How many instances can you recall that the official, after review,  waived off the shot.completely because someone stepped out of bounds. First time I have witnessed it. Its common to check for a two or three.

Very good point lawdog.  It's not something I ever remember happening.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 31, 2022, 07:01:15 PM
How many instances can you recall that the official, after review,  waived off the shot.completely because someone stepped out of bounds. First time I have witnessed it. Its common to check for a two or three.

So are you suggesting that, in the review of the two or three, they shouldn’t change the call completely if he stepped out of bounds?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on May 31, 2022, 07:07:41 PM
So are you suggesting that, in the review of the two or three, they shouldn’t change the call completely if he stepped out of bounds?
yes. To me it would be akin to them waiving it off if he travelled
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 31, 2022, 07:38:36 PM
yes. To me it would be akin to them waiving it off if he travelled

So even though they have the means to get an objectively wrong call correct, they shouldn’t correct it?  That makes no sense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 31, 2022, 09:23:37 PM
So even though they have the means to get an objectively wrong call correct, they shouldn’t correct it?  That makes no sense.

Either all out of bounds calls are reviewable, or we should be looking for every "objectively wrong" missed travel, or out of bounds on made FGs.

What if on review they realize he pushed off on a defender (offensive foul), took too many steps on a step back. If they are reviewing stepping on the line 2 vs 3, fine. But everything else should be left alone on review.

And in this case it was still really close as to whether his heel hit the ground on the line. Your heel can hover over the out of bounds line, and it has happened multiple times (that I saw) during the playoffs.

Even if it is reviewable, I didn't see anything that would be incontrovertible evidence he was out of bounds. So stick with the on the court call. If it takes them over 3 minutes of game time (and likely 15 minutes of actual time) to decide whether he was out of bounds or not...stick with the original call.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on May 31, 2022, 09:25:21 PM
So even though they have the means to get an objectively wrong call correct, they shouldn’t correct it?  That makes no sense.

I agree.

They should never be able to go back like that with a judgement call. But this was not that. Either a foot is on the line or it isn't.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on May 31, 2022, 09:43:57 PM
I agree.

They should never be able to go back like that with a judgement call. But this was not that. Either a foot is on the line or it isn't.

I'm not a fan of the rule, but it is apparently the rule.

The bigger problem is that to overturn the call on the court it needs to be clear. Lots of people have reviewed the video, slow motion, paused and zoomed in and most come to the conclusion that the video is inconclusive. And that although it appears that his heel may contact the line, even zoomed in they aren't sure.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 01, 2022, 05:03:57 AM
I'm not a fan of the rule, but it is apparently the rule.

The bigger problem is that to overturn the call on the court it needs to be clear. Lots of people have reviewed the video, slow motion, paused and zoomed in and most come to the conclusion that the video is inconclusive. And that although it appears that his heel may contact the line, even zoomed in they aren't sure.

There is zero question he stepped on the line.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 01, 2022, 05:06:32 AM
Either all out of bounds calls are reviewable, or we should be looking for every "objectively wrong" missed travel, or out of bounds on made FGs.

What if on review they realize he pushed off on a defender (offensive foul), took too many steps on a step back. If they are reviewing stepping on the line 2 vs 3, fine. But everything else should be left alone on review.

The NFL does this all the time. If a play is reviewed, everything objective is up to review. No judgement calls are.

I think people are letting their rooting interests cloud their judgment.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 01, 2022, 09:55:39 PM
The NFL does this all the time. If a play is reviewed, everything objective is up to review. No judgement calls are.

I think people are letting their rooting interests cloud their judgment.

I have no rooting interest in this one at all. Just an overall opinion.

And I disagree on there being no doubt. I haven't seen a conclusive video, and there are a lot of video analysts that have looked back over it and can't get a good shot showing definitively that his heel touched the line (as opposed to being hovering over it). 

I keep looking for a still shot definitively showing he stepped on the line, but can't find one. Instead most people say it looks like his heel never came down. Can you share a clear image of it?

So to me it appears that the league office made a judgement call to overturn another judgement call. That's what I have a problem with.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2022, 09:59:13 PM
Warriors in 5.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 01, 2022, 10:26:46 PM
Warriors in 5.

To be honest Golden State hasn't matched up with a team like Boston and have a huge size disadvantage. I hope you're right but the key is can the Dubs play their small line-up vs the Celtics?  If they have to put both Green and Looney on the floor I think it's a potential problem.  Boston should annihilate GS on the glass. My hope is Boston is forced to go small because Poole goes off like he did earlier in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2022, 10:42:43 PM
To be honest Golden State hasn't matched up with a team like Boston and have a huge size disadvantage. I hope you're right but the key is can the Dubs play their small line-up vs the Celtics?  If they have to put both Green and Looney on the floor I think it's a potential problem.  Boston should annihilate GS on the glass. My hope is Boston is forced to go small because Poole goes off like he did earlier in the playoffs.

The Celtics are tired and beat up, and I just think the Warriors will run all over 'em.

The good thing is we'll get to see!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 01, 2022, 11:16:38 PM
To be honest Golden State hasn't matched up with a team like Boston and have a huge size disadvantage. I hope you're right but the key is can the Dubs play their small line-up vs the Celtics?  If they have to put both Green and Looney on the floor I think it's a potential problem.  Boston should annihilate GS on the glass. My hope is Boston is forced to go small because Poole goes off like he did earlier in the playoffs.

Huge size disadvantage?

Warriors top 7 goes 6'7, 6'2, 6'6, 6'6, 6'9, 6'8, and 6'4. 

Celtics top 7 goes 6'7, 6'3, 6'6, 6'9, 6'6, 6'8, and 6'4.

Seems pretty dang close to me.  Especially since Horford isn't some big inside presence.

Celtics have to ugly up the game and grind it out.  They snuck past the Bucks without Middleton.  They snuck past the Heat who got nothing from anyone not named Butler and who were quite banged up.  Both were long exhausting series.  Now they run into a pretty healthy Warriors team who is rested and clicking on all cylinders.  I could easily see the Cs getting blitzed for stretches.  Tatum is gonna have to be Superman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 01, 2022, 11:32:33 PM
Huge size disadvantage?

Warriors top 7 goes 6'7, 6'2, 6'6, 6'6, 6'9, 6'8, and 6'4. 

Celtics top 7 goes 6'7, 6'3, 6'6, 6'9, 6'6, 6'8, and 6'4.


Size includes weight. 
Seems pretty dang close to me.  Especially since Horford isn't some big inside presence.

Celtics have to ugly up the game and grind it out.  They snuck past the Bucks without Middleton.  They snuck past the Heat who got nothing from anyone not named Butler and who were quite banged up.  Both were long exhausting series.  Now they run into a pretty healthy Warriors team who is rested and clicking on all cylinders.  I could easily see the Cs getting blitzed for stretches.  Tatum is gonna have to be Superman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 02, 2022, 12:38:04 AM
Size includes weight

Warriors
6'7 205, 6'2 185, 6'6 220, 6'6 240, 6'9 230, 6'8 210, 6'4 195

Celtics
6'7 205, 6'3 220, 6'6 220, 6'9 240, 6'6 235, 6'8 237, 6'4 190

Again, its not that huge of a difference.  Its not like the Celtics have bruisers that can play bully ball due to complete size advantage.  The only real size difference is Smart and Curry.  Grant Williams is a tank, but he's really not any bigger than Draymond.

The Celtics play a much more physical brand of basketball, without a doubt.  But its not like they are the Monstars outsizing the Toon Squad
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 02, 2022, 04:32:00 AM
I have no rooting interest in this one at all. Just an overall opinion.

And I disagree on there being no doubt. I haven't seen a conclusive video, and there are a lot of video analysts that have looked back over it and can't get a good shot showing definitively that his heel touched the line (as opposed to being hovering over it). 

I keep looking for a still shot definitively showing he stepped on the line, but can't find one. Instead most people say it looks like his heel never came down. Can you share a clear image of it?

So to me it appears that the league office made a judgement call to overturn another judgement call. That's what I have a problem with.

I saw it on video enough to see he was out. No judgement at all.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 08:34:51 PM
Didn't Draymond Green once score 37 in an NBA Finals game?  WTH happened to his offensive game?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 08:37:45 PM
Curry on pace for 24 triples.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 08:44:14 PM
Wow.  Fun game the first 15 mins.  It's raining triples.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 09:43:37 PM
Other than Wiggins, Curry isn't getting much help. What this guy is able to do is truly remarkable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:02:52 PM
Tatum has been brutal but it's only a 5pt game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:13:48 PM
Wow.  Derrick White can't miss.  Smh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:19:16 PM
Horford is torching Green.  Gotta give Boston credit for picking up White and Horford.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 02, 2022, 10:20:05 PM
I'm gonna hate how this game turns out, but my god it has been fun. 

Its an absolute TRAGEDY Mike Breen is out for this game.  Its literally tailor made for BANNNNNGGGGGs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:26:03 PM
Big concerns for GSW.  Obviously Boston went crazy from distance in the 4Q.  But they got wide open looks.  You add the fact that Tatum had an off night and Kerr cannot be happy.  The problem (which I mentioned before the game) is that if Golden State has to play big with Green and Looney, essentially they're playing 3 on 5. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2022, 10:29:55 PM
Amazing turnaround for Boston. I'm already regretting my pick!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:32:31 PM
Amazing turnaround for Boston. I'm already regretting my pick!

These were rhythm 4Q triples MU82.  Between us we may have not gone 9-12 but probably 7-12.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 02, 2022, 10:34:11 PM
Boston will cool down, but Tatum will play better. Warriors role guys will play better, but you aren’t going to get an efficient 30+ from Steph. Warriors will get game two and I think it’ll be 2-2 after 4. No guesses after that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2022, 10:35:14 PM
These were rhythm 4Q triples MU82.  Between us we may have not gone 9-12 but probably 7-12.

Uh ... no. I've seen me shoot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:40:51 PM
Boston will cool down, but Tatum will play better. Warriors role guys will play better, but you aren’t going to get an efficient 30+ from Steph. Warriors will get game two and I think it’ll be 2-2 after 4. No guesses after that.

Steph was the only one out there that looked comfortable scoring though.  Poole can't be a non-factor while White goes bananas. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:42:50 PM
Uh ... no. I've seen me shoot.

Then I would take 10 of the 12 shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2022, 10:43:20 PM
Then I would take 10 of the 12 shots.

You'd need to take 13 of the 12 shots!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 10:57:07 PM
You'd need to take 13 of the 12 shots!

Very disappointed in Golden State.  Green just infuriated me this evening.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 02, 2022, 10:57:30 PM
Big concerns for GSW.  Obviously Boston went crazy from distance in the 4Q.  Buythey got wide open looks.  You add the fact that Tatum had an off night and Kerr cannot be happy.  The problem (which I mentioned before the game) is that if Golden State has to play big with Green and Looney, essentially they're playing 3 on 5.

The Warriors went almost 4 minutes without scoring.  A 36% 3P shooting Celtics team went 7-7 to start the 4th. 

The size had nothing to do with it.  They weren't getting killed on the boards.  They weren't getting beat inside.

The Warriors were controlling the game most of the game.  Then the Cs got unconscious.  Derrick White is shooting under 30% from 3 in playoffs and went 4-4 including 2 very contested 3s.  Marcus Smart was 4-7 after shooting 30% all year.  Sometimes really good offensive teams just hit shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 02, 2022, 11:05:56 PM
The Warriors went almost 4 minutes without scoring.  A 36% 3P shooting Celtics team went 7-7 to start the 4th. 

The size had nothing to do with it.  They weren't getting killed on the boards.  They weren't getting beat inside.



The Warriors were controlling the game most of the game.  Then the Cs got unconscious.  Derrick White is shooting under 30% from 3 in playoffs and went 4-4 including 2 very contested 3s.  Marcus Smart was 4-7 after shooting 30% all year.  Sometimes really good offensive teams just hit shots.

I'm gonna slightly disagree with your assessment JWags and don't forget about Horford.  These were wide open practice threes.  The C's did this vs the Bucks as well in a few games.  One of the sayings that I absolutely hate in general is "this is a make or miss league"   That's not exactly accurate.  It's more about good shots vs bad shots.  The C's got better shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on June 03, 2022, 05:41:16 AM
Dang, fell asleep last night with the warriors up 12 after 3Qs and the brewers down 4-1 after 8 innings. Quite the turnaround in both games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 03, 2022, 12:41:58 PM
Does anybody know of a place I could find full NBA Playoff games from last year?  Would like to watch some of the Bucks games from last year's run but can't find the full games online.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 03, 2022, 07:34:36 PM
Boston will cool down, but Tatum will play better. Warriors role guys will play better, but you aren’t going to get an efficient 30+ from Steph. Warriors will get game two and I think it’ll be 2-2 after 4. No guesses after that.

I’d bet on Curry having two more 30+ efficient games from Steph, and he very likely may get more than 2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 03, 2022, 08:15:18 PM
Kerr is a really good coach but he made a pretty significant error last night.  He began the 4Q with both Curry and Wiggins on the bench.  I get they had a 12 point lead but I think far less emphasis should be on mins.  These time-outs are long amd the Dubs had like 4 days off.  Either way GSW has a big problem if Poole is stymied and Green does zero offensively.   He doesn't have to be great buy in the 8pt range on 5 shots or so. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 05, 2022, 07:56:12 PM
This will be a quick series if the Dubs don't get anything from Poole or Thompson.  They really need to wake up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 05, 2022, 09:05:14 PM
Poole may have read my comments.  Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 05, 2022, 09:07:47 PM
Curry looks to be planning on an efficient 30+ point game.

And what a close to the quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 06, 2022, 09:45:23 AM
Last night Draymond showed how you impact a game outside of the box score.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 08, 2022, 08:12:52 PM
Tatum dislocates his shoulder for the second time in two rounds and doesn’t miss a possession lol. C’s act is so old. Flopped their way to a title. And the NBA has itself to blame for rewarding it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 08, 2022, 08:16:15 PM
Didn't they say it is a stinger?  I mean, they flop and b*tch a lot no doubt, but I'm not sure that's a great example.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:17:05 PM
Klay really needs to find his game.  Right now it's a total disaster frankly.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 08, 2022, 08:19:10 PM
Didn't they say it is a stinger?  I mean, they flop and b*tch a lot no doubt, but I'm not sure that's a great example.

I know it wasn’t a dislocated shoulder. But he acts like he has bone on bone shoulder dislocation going on and then goes and hits two free throws.

I’m actually glad I hate watching them this much even when they’re not playing the Bucks. Let’s me know it wasn’t just seeing what I wanted to see because I wanted the Bucks to win.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:21:14 PM
Big, big, probs for the Dubs.  Curry with a quick 2 fouls.  The first one was a joke.  Regardless, I can't see them winning this series if Thompson continues to be a dumpster fire.  He needs to relax, rise, and fire with confidence. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 08, 2022, 08:24:01 PM
Big, big, probs for the Dubs.  Curry with a quick 2 fouls.  The first one was a joke.  Regardless, I can't see them winning this series if Thompson continues to be a dumpster fire.  He needs to relax, rise, and fire with confidence.

The Warriors just aren’t as good as the C’s. Draymond is even worse offensively than he was, Looney isn’t a threat outside of the offensive glass, Klay isn’t close to the player he was before his injuries, and Wiggins is just a solid guy. Like the Bucks pushing the C’s to 7 without Middleton being a testament to Giannis’s greatness, the fact that the Warriors are here is a testament to Curry’s greatness.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 08, 2022, 08:25:54 PM
I know it wasn’t a dislocated shoulder. But he acts like he has bone on bone shoulder dislocation going on and then goes and hits two free throws.

I have never had a stinger before so I don't know what the proper reaction is supposed to be.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:28:46 PM
The Warriors just aren’t as good as the C’s. Draymond is even worse offensively than he was, Looney isn’t a threat outside of the offensive glass, Klay isn’t close to the player he was before his injuries, and Wiggins is just a solid guy. Like the Bucks pushing the C’s to 7 without Middleton being a testament to Giannis’s greatness, the fact that the Warriors are here is a testament to Curry’s greatness.

You could very well be right.  RIghf now they can't score or defend.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2022, 08:30:46 PM
I have never had a stinger before so I don't know what the proper reaction is supposed to be.

In the NFL it usually means they miss a few snaps, because they can’t move their arm.

It was a flop, there was no injury. The C’s are as bad as soccer players.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 08, 2022, 08:35:04 PM
It was a flop, there was no injury.

LOL...OK. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:39:22 PM
It could be a lot worse.  5 important points for Klay to close the quarter. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:53:42 PM
The C's are destroying them at the rim.  Very disappointing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 08:54:29 PM
The C's are destroying them at the rim.  Very disappointing.

Why wouldn’t they? They are bigger at every position.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 08:56:21 PM
We’ll see if the Warriors can get this back to 10-12 by half and then make a run in the third. They should be down even more than they are with how this game has gone. Boston is at 61% and has rebounded half their misses.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 08:59:12 PM
We’ll see if the Warriors can get this back to 10-12 by half and then make a run in the third. They should be down even more than they are with how this game has gone. Boston is at 61% and has rebounded half their misses.

That was quick.  Boston fortunately can kick the ball away. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:03:40 PM
You have got to be shting me with that Curry foul??  What a bunch of crap.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 08, 2022, 09:04:14 PM
Haha my God the Celtics are a joke with these flops. Once again, rewarded for turning this sport into soccer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:05:17 PM
Haha my God the Celtics are a joke with these flops. Once again, rewarded for turning this sport into soccer.

Two of Curry's three fouls were complete excrement.  Pisses me off.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 09:07:37 PM
Steph’s 3rd was a foul. Sure, White flopped like crazy to draw attention to it but Steph grabbed him.

Steph’s first was ridiculous.

Agree with both of you that that Celtics flopping is beyond old at this point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 08, 2022, 09:12:47 PM
Steph’s 3rd was a foul. Sure, White flopped like crazy to draw attention to it but Steph grabbed him.

Steph’s first was ridiculous.

Agree with both of you that that Celtics flopping is beyond old at this point.

The problem with Steph’s 3rd foul is that’s how Steph is defended every single possession. Contact? Sure. But enough for there to be a foul call? No way unless you’re going to foul out ever player before you get 4 minutes into the game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:13:04 PM
It could be worse but allowing 68 isn't gonna get it done.  For as good as Green was in Game 2, he has been abysmal tonight and in Game 1. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 09:19:29 PM
The problem with Steph’s 3rd foul is that’s how Steph is defended every single possession. Contact? Sure. But enough for there to be a foul call? No way unless you’re going to foul out ever player before you get 4 minutes into the game.

Can’t argue with that. Steph is reffed in a way that’s never made sense to me. He is constantly held off the ball and rarely gets those calls. He’s held on drives and doesn’t get those calls. Then once or twice a game his defender gets called for the weakest touch fouls. It’s almost like an acknowledgment of all the crap he goes through for 40 minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 09:20:46 PM
It could be worse but allowing 68 isn't gonna get it done.  For as good as Green was in Game 2, he has been abysmal tonight and in Game 1.

Yep. If GS is going to pull this out it’s going to be through improved defense and rebounding, which starts with Green. Boston has been slightly quicker to every ball, opposite of game 2.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2022, 09:27:09 PM
Can’t argue with that. Steph is reffed in a way that’s never made sense to me. He is constantly held off the ball and rarely gets those calls. He’s held on drives and doesn’t get those calls. Then once or twice a game his defender gets called for the weakest touch fouls. It’s almost like an acknowledgment of all the crap he goes through for 40 minutes.

Curry is one of a handful of players that they changed officiating for (see also Shaq). If they called it consistently Steph would be unstoppable. So they let a bunch of crap go to make him defendable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:30:58 PM
Sweet Jesus. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:43:14 PM
That's a flagrant foul.

Tremendous shot by Curry.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Boston will probably respond with a run here, but man that was fun from Steph.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 09:51:53 PM
Boston will probably respond with a run here, but man that was fun from Steph.

He's amazing.

But they will have to get some buckets from Poole and Klay in the 4Q.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 10:07:44 PM
Ouch. Boston with a ton of 2nd chance points.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 08, 2022, 10:07:54 PM
Lame. Bad time to get sloppy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 08, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
Somebody forgot to tell Robert Williams that there’s no room in today’s NBA for a big who can’t shoot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 10:18:58 PM
If Boston can play two bigs they have a major advantage.  I said that before the series began. They have gotten way, way, more easy baskets. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 08, 2022, 10:31:42 PM
The Celtics just look like the better team.  Which sucks because they're inordinately unlikable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Merit Matters on June 08, 2022, 10:38:10 PM
Poor Steve Kerr
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 09, 2022, 01:09:11 AM
The Celtics just look like the better team.  Which sucks because they're inordinately unlikable.

Usually I’m all aboard the Boston sports hate train.

But any team with Draymond and Klay is incredibly unlikeable.

Klay especially, don’t understand the love he gets. Dude is incredibly annoying. Would love to see him play without Steph just for one full season, just to see him flounder.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 09, 2022, 08:28:28 AM
Usually I’m all aboard the Boston sports hate train.

But any team with Draymond and Klay is incredibly unlikeable.

Klay especially, don’t understand the love he gets. Dude is incredibly annoying. Would love to see him play without Steph just for one full season, just to see him flounder.

There's no question Green is a douchebag and punkish.  Klay isn't the same player. since his injury.  I guess my disdain for the entire Celtics team supercedes my issues with Draymond.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2022, 08:38:42 AM
Poor Steve Kerr

Is this sarcastic? Do you not like Steve Kerr?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 09, 2022, 08:43:08 AM
Is this sarcastic? Do you not like Steve Kerr?

Yes.  He hates people that call out injustice in the world, especially if they defend minorities
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 09, 2022, 08:44:06 AM
Is this sarcastic? Do you not like Steve Kerr?

He's trying to take Chico's guns away.  Next thing you know Chico won't be able to rev his pickup truck's diesel engine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 09, 2022, 09:34:14 AM
Yes.  He hates people that call out injustice in the world, especially if they defend minorities

Yessir.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 12:10:15 AM
Statistically, Draymond Green's Game 3 may be the worst in history when you take into account he played 34 minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 10, 2022, 06:50:52 AM
Statistically, Draymond Green's Game 3 may be the worst in history when you take into account he played 34 minutes.

I am going to venture a guess and say not even close
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 10, 2022, 07:32:57 AM
Statistically, Draymond Green's Game 3 may be the worst in history when you take into account he played 34 minutes.
John Starks is on line 1 for you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 08:20:15 AM
I have repeatedly heard Draymond Green referred to as a lock for the Basketball Hall of Fame. And he probably will get in the Hall, even though he will have perhaps the most modest basic career stats for any HoFer ever: 9 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg. Also, a .499 eFG%.

He obviously is a great defender, and he also has been the emotional and physical leader for the NBA's most dominant team of the last decade. That's why he's in the Hall conversation.

But he admittedly played uninspired basketball in Games 1 and 3 of these Finals -- can you imagine any of the truly great players in NBA history having to admit they weren't ready to roll for the effen Finals? -- and of course his lack of discipline likely cost GS the 2016 title.

It's an interesting discussion IMHO. Such a contrast to the MVP situation in baseball, where it seems to have become accepted now that the guys with the best offensive stats should be MVP even if their teams really, really suck. Here you have a guy with modest offensive stats but he is considered a Hall shoo-in because of the intangibles he brings to a championship-caliber team; he wouldn't even be considered if he had been toiling for the T-Wolves.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 08:34:11 AM
I think Draymond has gone from a solid player whose also a bit of a pest, to a guy who's act way exceeds his abilities.  Sure there are times where that can be helpful, but by and large he seems way overpaid for what he brings to the floor.

I wonder, with both Draymond and Klay on expiring contracts next year, if the Warriors will use this offseason to do some rebuilding. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on June 10, 2022, 08:41:31 AM
Poor Steve Kerr

I imagine he and his eight rings are doing OK.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 10, 2022, 08:54:19 AM
The conversation some coworkers and I were having the other day is would you rather have Joakim Noah or Draymond Green on your team.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 09:00:07 AM
The conversation some coworkers and I were having the other day is would you rather have Joakim Noah or Draymond Green on your team.

At their peaks...Green.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 10, 2022, 09:01:37 AM
I have repeatedly heard Draymond Green referred to as a lock for the Basketball Hall of Fame. And he probably will get in the Hall, even though he will have perhaps the most modest basic career stats for any HoFer ever: 9 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg. Also, a .499 eFG%.

Hall of Famer Ben Wallace: 5.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.3 apg, 47.5% eFG%.

The conversation some coworkers and I were having the other day is would you rather have Joakim Noah or Draymond Green on your team.

In today's game and at their peaks?  No question Draymond.  Much better defender in space, which is what you need today (not that Joakim would be a liability in that aspect, but Draymond is much better overall in that area).
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:23:12 AM
I have repeatedly heard Draymond Green referred to as a lock for the Basketball Hall of Fame. And he probably will get in the Hall, even though he will have perhaps the most modest basic career stats for any HoFer ever: 9 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg. Also, a .499 eFG%.

He obviously is a great defender, and he also has been the emotional and physical leader for the NBA's most dominant team of the last decade. That's why he's in the Hall conversation.

But he admittedly played uninspired basketball in Games 1 and 3 of these Finals -- can you imagine any of the truly great players in NBA history having to admit they weren't ready to roll for the effen Finals? -- and of course his lack of discipline likely cost GS the 2016 title.

It's an interesting discussion IMHO. Such a contrast to the MVP situation in baseball, where it seems to have become accepted now that the guys with the best offensive stats should be MVP even if their teams really, really suck. Here you have a guy with modest offensive stats but he is considered a Hall shoo-in because of the intangibles he brings to a championship-caliber team; he wouldn't even be considered if he had been toiling for the T-Wolves.

The fact is Green was very good in G2 but he's been astronomically abysmal in their 2 losses.  He's actually been so bad that it begs the question why on earth he would be on the floor for 30+ mins in those games? 

And I'll tell you something else:  Golden State is a team essentially without a rebounder and the best perimeter shooter in history.  In other words his rebounding and assist stats should be high based on the personnel around him.   He's shooting 26% for the series (0-7 from distance) and basically isn't being guarded.  He also got torched by Jaylen Brown repeatedly in G3. 

The bottom line is GSW cannot win this series if he's an unmitigated disaster while he's on the floor.  It's simply not possible.  So, imo, what has to be done, if in the midst of the game Green is crapping the bed, you give guys like Kuminga or Juan a chance.  You know 5-6 min stretches and see what they can bring to the floor.  If they're worse than Green then I guess you have to stick with Looney, Porter, and Wiggins.

Draymond is a Hall of Famer based on the criteria but he seriously needs to get his head out of his ass.  He's killing this Warriors team right now on and off the floor.  We'll see if he shows up tonight.  If he can't cut it get someone else on the floor and truncate his minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 10, 2022, 09:54:07 AM
Coaches ride with the ones that brung em.     There is no way that Kerr curtails DG's minutes in game 4 of the finals on the road.     DG may do it himself by getting a couple of tech's, but Kerr will not.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:07:52 AM
Coaches ride with the ones that brung em.     There is no way that Kerr curtails DG's minutes in game 4 of the finals on the road.     DG may do it himself by getting a couple of tech's, but Kerr will not.

Tower, Udoka cut Smart's mins in G1 when he played poorly.  There's no law that you have to stick with players if they're brutal any given game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 10:22:09 AM
Tower, Udoka cut Smart's mins in G1 when he played poorly.  There's no law that you have to stick with players if they're brutal any given game.

So who should he have played?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 10, 2022, 10:26:52 AM
Tower, Udoka cut Smart's mins in G1 when he played poorly.  There's no law that you have to stick with players if they're brutal any given game.

Tell that to Bud about George Hill.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 10, 2022, 10:26:58 AM
Tower, Udoka cut Smart's mins in G1 when he played poorly.  There's no law that you have to stick with players if they're brutal any given game.

This is Marcus Smarts first finals.

Draymond has been a cog on 3 finals winning teams.

Kerr rides whats been built for years.

Also, you keep using extreme hyperbole to describe DG's perfromance. Hes been bad 2/3 games. But you keep acting like hes playing Division 3 level ball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 10:31:12 AM
Tell that to Bud about George Hill.

So are you suggesting he should have played Jevon Carter instead?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:41:11 AM
So are you suggesting he should have played Jevon Carter instead?

Why not?  It's inconceivable he could have played worse than Hill.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:42:32 AM
This is Marcus Smarts first finals.

Draymond has been a cog on 3 finals winning teams.

Kerr rides whats been built for years.

Also, you keep using extreme hyperbole to describe DG's perfromance. Hes been bad 2/3 games. But you keep acting like hes playing Division 3 level ball.

He's been atrocious.  Now, hopefully he bounces back tonight but with all due respect he's been terrible and was a disaster Wednesday.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 10:47:09 AM
Why not?  It's inconceivable he could have played worse than Hill.

Of course it's conceivable. 

And Hill's not the reason they lost.  They lost big minute guys Grayson Allen and Brook Lopez were terrible in games 6 and 7.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 10, 2022, 10:57:13 AM
So are you suggesting he should have played Jevon Carter instead?

I was hoping he’d go back to Carter at some point. Carter had a good Game 1 and was playing pretty well. At least if nothing else to give him a few minutes to see if he was able to give more than Hill.

Definitely not the reason they lost. Giving up wide open 3s on one end and then not able to hit the broad side of a barn on the other was a bigger reason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 11:02:55 AM
Hall of Famer Ben Wallace: 5.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.3 apg, 47.5% eFG%.

Wallace is a good comparison, wades, thanks for that.

Wallace was a top-level rebounder and shot-blocker for 5+ years, though, so he had the kind of statistical impact for an extended stretch that Green has never had.

Green has won 3x as many titles, but he's also been quite fortunate to be surrounded by three of the best shotmakers in NBA history.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 12:17:13 PM
Of course it's conceivable. 

And Hill's not the reason they lost.  They lost big minute guys Grayson Allen and Brook Lopez were terrible in games 6 and 7.

They also lost because Horford and then Grant Williams had career shooting games from distance. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 10, 2022, 08:28:26 PM
Very poor officiating in game 4 so far, and all going the way of Boston.

Two poor foul calls against Looney early.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 08:39:04 PM
Very poor officiating in game 4 so far, and all going the way of Boston.

Two poor foul calls against Looney early.

Terrible
Terrible

Great point forgetful.

Kerr needs to play Wiggins as much as possible. You can't have Tatum or Brown guarded by a small. 

Robert Williams III continues to give GSW probs. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 08:42:39 PM
Cmon. The second one was a clear foul.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 10, 2022, 08:52:19 PM
Cmon. The second one was a clear foul.

A player drove into a stationary Looney. Both announcers even said bad call.

But in general, the calls have been terrible. Overwhelmingly bad against the Warriors, but some real head scratchers against the Celtics too.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 10, 2022, 08:53:12 PM
A player drove into a stationary Looney. Both announcers even said bad call.


They were both wrong. As are you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 10, 2022, 08:55:16 PM
Terrible
Terrible

Great point forgetful.

Kerr needs to play Wiggins as much as possible. You can't have Tatum or Brown guarded by a small. 

Robert Williams III continues to give GSW probs.


Agreed 100%
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 10, 2022, 08:55:21 PM
Draymond is almost as bad offensively as he is good defensively.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:01:54 PM
Good point by JFG.  How many freaking times can you allow a team to go hard right? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:10:30 PM
Green isn't exactly helping tonight offensively.   What's lost in the stats is that while he's out there RWIIII can just patrol  the paint and help all over the floor.  Draymond isn't even looking at the rim unless he's 2 feet from the basket. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:12:37 PM
Draymond is almost as bad offensively as he is good defensively.

Yep.  But he actually hasn't been good defensively either for most of these games.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 10, 2022, 09:21:01 PM
Their biggest problems are Draymond went from doing just enough offensively between his passing, screening, diving, and hitting a 3 here or there to an absolute 0 (if that) offensively and Klay isn’t even 80% of what he was pre injury. Wide open shots he used to hit at like 85% he’s not shooting at like 45%. He’s just not good enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:28:55 PM
Green is getting abused by young RW3. Juan or Kuminga time?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:35:09 PM
Danger time for GSW.  They're not getting easy buckets or FT"s. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:43:40 PM
How in the world wasn't that a foul on Tatum? 

Curry has to get some help.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 10, 2022, 09:45:11 PM
How on the world wasn't that a foul on Tatum? 

Curry has to get some help.

The game is officiated differently for Curry.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 10, 2022, 09:54:00 PM
Warriors like they usually do, won the 3rd.

But not sure they won it by enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 09:54:17 PM
I'm not sure Kerr can afford to sit Curry at all in the 4th.   Klay has to give them something to close this game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 10:04:09 PM
Entertaining game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
That was sweet.  I've been waiting for Cutry to go to the floater.  Can they slam the door and close this out?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 10:12:18 PM
That was sweet.  I've been waiting for Cutry to go to the floater.  Can they slam the door and close this out?

It was sweet. Looney set about 3 moving screens on that possession, but the refs ain’t calling any of those.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:13:55 PM
It was sweet. Looney set about 3 moving screens on that possession, but the refs ain’t calling any of those.

You're right.  The moving screens have not been called all series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:20:06 PM
Uhhh...BAM!  Curry is honestly beyond comprehension. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 10:23:44 PM
Good challenge
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 10, 2022, 10:25:45 PM
C's wilted late.

The Warriors did not.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 10:29:55 PM
Another Finals dud for Draymond. Good on Kerr for benching Green for long stretches.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:37:30 PM
I still think the Celtics are better but because they kick the ball away anything can happen.  If somehow GSW pulls this off where do you put Curry historically? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2022, 10:44:46 PM
I still think the Celtics are better but because they kick the ball away anything can happen.  If somehow GSW pulls this off where do you put Curry historically?

I already put him among all-time greats. Where he ranks among those greats I’d have to think about.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2022, 10:47:56 PM
I already put him among all-time greats. Where he ranks among those greats I’d have to think about.

I think we may have to consider slotting him in thr top 10 ever and ahead of some big names.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 10, 2022, 11:18:55 PM
Wiggins is why I wish the Bucks could trade for Harrison Barnes. Long wing who’s always been in a bad situation but is probably a decent amount better than he gets thought of if put in a better situation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 11, 2022, 05:27:25 AM
I think we may have to consider slotting him in thr top 10 ever and ahead of some big names.

Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 11, 2022, 07:28:08 AM
Wiggins is why I wish the Bucks could trade for Harrison Barnes. Long wing who’s always been in a bad situation but is probably a decent amount better than he gets thought of if put in a better situation.

Barnes played for the Warriors for 4 years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 11, 2022, 09:45:27 AM
Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.

If Golden State finds a way to pull this off you really have to ask how many players are better than Curry?  And he's always been way more than a shooter.  It may not be irrational to argue we're watching a top 5 player ever despite his physical limitations at his height and weight. 

I can't put him ahead of Jordan or Lebron.  Especially Jordan because he had no weaknesses and would have extended his range in this era.  But honestly after those two?  I'm not so sure he's isn't in the 3-5 range as there are a number of things he does that can't be measured statistically. 

I get Klay isn't Klay anymore and Green is also not the same player, but do we really know how good these guys would have been without Curry on the floor?  The space he creates can't be overlooked.   I'm not saying Thompson in particular wouldn't have been great without Curry, but Steph is near the top of the list of making guys around him better.  So when Udoka blitzes Curry and Thompson goes off in Game 5 no one should be surprised. 

Curry is also better defensively than he gets credit for and has always been an outstanding teammate.  The same cannot be said for many of the games greatest players.  Regardless of what happens the rest of this series I don't  think it's crazy to slot him ahead of Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Russell, Wilt, and Hakeem.  I'm comfortable if the experts have him in the top 5.  Jabbar, Jordan, and James I would guess is the consensus top 3.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2022, 10:30:43 AM
Curry is a top 10 player ever. But Klay would’ve been nearly as good as he is as long as he was in a decent system as well. Prior to his injury he hit unbelievably tough shots consistently. Go watch game 6 of the Thunder series down 3-2 the year before KD joined them.

NBA players are unbelievable. Yes, guys like Steph and Giannis give teammates open looks and it helps with their efficiency. But if you’re good with those guys you’re going to be good elsewhere. Look at Jrue. He was just as good with the Pelicans as he is next to Giannis. Look at Barnes, he’s putting up the same numbers in Sacramento as he did next to Curry/Klay, he’s just doing it for a team who doesn’t win. Wiggins was putting up similar numbers for the Wolves as he is next to Curry/Klay. These players’ efficiency probably go up a bit playing next to the generational stars, but overall they’re pretty much the same player before and/or after playing next to these guys.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 11, 2022, 11:00:56 AM
Curry is a top 10 player ever. But Klay would’ve been nearly as good as he is as long as he was in a decent system as well. Prior to his injury he hit unbelievably tough shots consistently. Go watch game 6 of the Thunder series down 3-2 the year before KD joined them.

NBA players are unbelievable. Yes, guys like Steph and Giannis give teammates open looks and it helps with their efficiency. But if you’re good with those guys you’re going to be good elsewhere. Look at Jrue. He was just as good with the Pelicans as he is next to Giannis. Look at Barnes, he’s putting up the same numbers in Sacramento as he did next to Curry/Klay, he’s just doing it for a team who doesn’t win. Wiggins was putting up similar numbers for the Wolves as he is next to Curry/Klay. These players’ efficiency probably go up a bit playing next to the generational stars, but overall they’re pretty much the same player before and/or after playing next to these guys.

I think you are underestimating the improvement because of Curry. Wiggins was mostly an under 50% eFG player, so his points were coming from high volume.

With GSW the last two seasons he was over 54% eFG, because he’s getting wide open looks and/or favorable isolation matchups.

Players will always get numbers. Because someone has to score on teams. Efficiency is what separates average scorers from stars. Players like Curry turn those above average guys into All-stars.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I think you are underestimating the improvement because of Curry. Wiggins was mostly an under 50% eFG player, so his points were coming from high volume.

With GSW the last two seasons he was over 54% eFG, because he’s getting wide open looks and/or favorable isolation matchups.

Players will always get numbers. Because someone has to score on teams. Efficiency is what separates average scorers from stars. Players like Curry turn those above average guys into All-stars.

Overall agree. Efficiency is where the difference is. But I’m not sure that’s JUST the Steph effect as much as it is going from the top of opposing teams’ scouting report to 3rd on opposing teams’ scouting report, plus right into the heart of his prime as a player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 11, 2022, 12:39:08 PM
Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.

Yes. And not only symbolic of how the game has changed, but a big reason why.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 11, 2022, 01:02:09 PM
I also think Curry gets mugged off the ball probably more than anyone in the league.  His endurance is incredible not to mention his variety of shots.  Some of the ones we saw last night are simply not makeable by anyone other than Curry.  He absolutely should have had two four point plays.

I would think Udoka changes his defensive game plan a bit in G5.  They will try to get the ball out of his hands.  I fully expect a lot of open looks for the auxiliary guys.  The thing you have to remind yourself when you're talking about all-time explosiveness is that 3pts > 2.  So yes, other great offensive players coukd go bananas, but they couldn't take a 2 pt game to 12 in the blink of an eye.  Remember Curry did once drain 77 in a row and 95/100 triples in a practice.  Once in a lifetime player but not a total genetic freak.  Muggsy was his favorite player as a child.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2022, 09:54:01 AM
Rating where players stack up all time is so subjective, of course, especially when trying to compare eras. But I guess that's the fun of it, and those are the kind of debates sports fans love.

FWIW, before this season The Athletic ranked the top 75 ever. They had Curry 15th behind (in order) ... Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Oscar, Durant and West ... and just ahead of (rounding out the top 20) Mailman, Garnett, Moses, Dr. J, Admiral.

Again, that was all done before the season. I think it's safe to say Steph would move up if he wins another title, especially given performances like last night's.

But of course, anyone can pick nits at any list like this. I'd probably move Magic ahead of Kareem and Russell, maybe move Duncan and Kobe ahead of Shaq, probably drop Oscar down a few notches. And because we all have our biases, I'd probably move up Julius several notches because I remember him before his knees got shot and because his role in the NBA/ABA merger had a profound effect on pro basketball. That's all just spitballin', though, because I wasn't looking at stats or anything as I said all of the above.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 12, 2022, 10:09:44 AM
Rating where players stack up all time is so subjective, of course, especially when trying to compare eras. But I guess that's the fun of it, and those are the kind of debates sports fans love.

FWIW, before this season The Athletic ranked the top 75 ever. They had Curry 15th behind (in order) ... Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Oscar, Durant and West ... and just ahead of (rounding out the top 20) Mailman, Garnett, Moses, Dr. J, Admiral.

Again, that was all done before the season. I think it's safe to say Steph would move up if he wins another title, especially given performances like last night's.

But of course, anyone can pick nits at any list like this. I'd probably move Magic ahead of Kareem and Russell, maybe move Duncan and Kobe ahead of Shaq, probably drop Oscar down a few notches. And because we all have our biases, I'd probably move up Julius several notches because I remember him before his knees got shot and because his role in the NBA/ABA merger had a profound effect on pro basketball. That's all just spitballin', though, because I wasn't looking at stats or anything as I said all of the above.

My modern 7 man rotation would be:

Curry
Jordan
Magic
James
Durant

with Giannis and Bird coming off the bench. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 12, 2022, 11:51:59 AM
My modern 7 man rotation would be:

Curry
Jordan
Magic
James
Durant

with Giannis and Bird coming off the bench. 

I’d bring Magic off the bench with Curry running point. Then add a nice rim protecting center.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 12, 2022, 12:53:06 PM
My modern 7 rotation would be

Dirk
Bird
Stockton
McHale
Nash
Gasol
John Dawson
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2022, 01:10:05 PM
My modern 7 rotation would be

Dirk
Bird
Stockton
McHale
Nash
Gasol
John Dawson

That's a good one. A little something for Nrs, and a lot for Doc Dribble ... though I think you forgot Herro.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 12, 2022, 01:12:46 PM
That's a good one. A little something for Nrs, and a lot for Doc Dribble ... though I think you forgot Herro.

Take Dawson out then. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2022, 01:23:55 PM
Take Dawson out then.

Oh sure ... and lose Ners. That's so like you.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 12, 2022, 03:29:06 PM
Honkies kan ball two, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 12, 2022, 03:40:09 PM
Where's Rick Barry or Luka?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 12, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
My modern 7 man rotation would be:

Curry
Jordan
Magic
James
Durant

with Giannis and Bird coming off the bench.

I'd go Curry, Jordan, James, Durant, and Kareem.

Bring Bird and Olajuwon off the bench.

Magic would is a creator, and would never have the ball in his hands with James/Durant/Jordan on the floor. Curry largely becomes a 2-guard, playing off ball as a shooter.

I honestly might put Bird in the starting lineup, mainly as another off-ball 3-point shooter. Want the ball in either Jordan, James, or Durant's hands.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 12, 2022, 05:59:34 PM
I'd go Curry, Jordan, James, Durant, and Kareem.

Bring Bird and Olajuwon off the bench.

Magic would is a creator, and would never have the ball in his hands with James/Durant/Jordan on the floor. Curry largely becomes a 2-guard, playing off ball as a shooter.

I honestly might put Bird in the starting lineup, mainly as another off-ball 3-point shooter. Want the ball in either Jordan, James, or Durant's hands.

I don't mind switching Magic for Hakeem.  I feel pretty comfortable that 7 would never lose. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2022, 09:30:09 PM
Magic would is a creator, and would never have the ball in his hands with James/Durant/Jordan on the floor.

Magic started every game he was healthy enough to play for the Dream Team.

That team had a bunch of ball-dominant players, and it worked out OK for them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 08:07:46 PM
You would think Tatum is due for a big game tonight.  I really hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 08:44:27 PM
GS significantly outplays Bos in the first quarter, and also gets the benefit of officials' calls.

I do think the Celtics are doing a nice job dogging Curry. He's having trouble even catching the ball. So tired he even missed a FT.

I was surprised Kerr left Looney in to get his third foul with several minutes left ikn the quarter.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 08:49:26 PM
GS significantly outplays Bos in the first quarter, and also gets the benefit of officials' calls.

I do think the Celtics are doing a nice job dogging Curry. He's having trouble even catching the ball. So tired he even missed a FT.

I was surprised Kerr left Looney in to get his third foul with several minutes left ikn the quarter.

Golden State should have dropped the MOAB early.  Instead they have allowed Boston to creep back into the game. 

As for them switching their coverage on Curry we all knew this would happen.  Hopefully GSW regains some mojo immediately. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 08:56:18 PM
This is some crazy brutal shooting.  Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 09:01:52 PM
Impressed with Wiggins pretty much all series.

Shows what can happen when you escape a losing culture and join a winning one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 09:04:44 PM
Impressed with Wiggins pretty much all series.

Shows what can happen when you escape a losing culture and join a winning one.

Ya....that was one of those highway robbery trades.  He's easily been their 2nd best player all playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 13, 2022, 09:05:43 PM
Impressed with Wiggins pretty much all series.

Shows what can happen when you escape a losing culture and join a winning one.

Yep. Part of it is effort/caring more. But he’s in a much better spot now.

He’s been GS 2nd best player this series.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 09:12:24 PM
Thankfully the Celtics don't really have a PG and kick the ball away constantly.  It's been a huge factor in this series. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
Uh-Oh.  That was quick.  I was concerned Tatum could go off.  Ughhh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 09:42:45 PM
Impressive rally by Celtics. They play D and they play hard. When the 3s start going in, they're ... well ... championship quality.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 13, 2022, 09:42:50 PM
Whistle has completely flipped to Boston but more importantly, they’ve hit 8 threes in a row.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 09:49:07 PM
Tatum is much better when he doesn't dick around with the ball laterally on the perimeter. 

Maybe that Klay triple changes momentum?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 09:58:25 PM
I didn't think I'd have to say this tonight but ...

Curry is hurting the Warriors. He's having a terrible shooting game -- missing badly on many attempts -- and the Celtics are having great success putting him into action on defense over and over again.

Poole just hit a buzzer-beating 3 to end the third, setting up what could be a wild 4th quarter. For the Warriors to win, Steph either has to have an incredible finish or another GS player or two has to step up.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 09:58:56 PM
Hopefully Curry wakes up in the 4Q.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:05:15 PM
Good on the refs not calling Smart's flops.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 13, 2022, 10:06:17 PM
Its truly arousing when Smart flops, flop the Celtics chances.

Just gave Klay a freebie.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:06:56 PM
Its truly arousing when Smart flops, flop the Celtics chances.

Just gave Klay a freebie.

Why didn't the Bucls get that no call?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:09:29 PM
Smart in complete meltdown mode! 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:10:46 PM
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:11:47 PM
Dunk it, Looney! Who do you think you are, Kur Kuath?!?!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 13, 2022, 10:13:50 PM
Davis and Brothers in the same game is a guarantee that some stupid crap is gonna happen.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:14:50 PM
Curry time?  He's had a brutal game. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:15:39 PM
Dunk it, Looney! Who do you think you are, Kur Kuath?!?!

That did suck.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:17:49 PM
Davis and Brothers in the same game is a guarantee that some stupid crap is gonna happen.

Maybe ... but Looney blows what should have been a dunk and then doesn't get back on D ... and what should have been a 13-point lead is suddenly 9. So then GS fans will whine later at some ref's call?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:18:06 PM
Weird to see Curry short and way off on his J. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:18:59 PM
Huge buckets from Wiggy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 13, 2022, 10:20:28 PM
Maybe ... but Looney blows what should have been a dunk and then doesn't get back on D ... and what should have been a 13-point lead is suddenly 9. So then GS fans will whine later at some ref's call?

I’m not saying it’s been slanted either way. Some insanity both ways. It’s chaos and the NBA should know better.

Crazy that GS has a chance to win the bad Steph game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:22:04 PM
Weird to see Curry short and way off on his J.

If you didn't already know that Curry was perhaps the greatest shooter ever, you'd watch this game and ask, "Why does that guy keep shooting? He's awful."

I’m not saying it’s been slanted either way. Some insanity both ways. It’s chaos and the NBA should know better.

Crazy that GS has a chance to win the bad Steph game.

Fair. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:22:24 PM
A tale of two quarters....Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:27:50 PM
I’m not saying it’s been slanted either way. Some insanity both ways. It’s chaos and the NBA should know better.

Crazy that GS has a chance to win the bad Steph game.

It's incredible they could possibly win. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 13, 2022, 10:29:32 PM
I'm gonna say this was a complete meltdown  by the Celtics regardless of that great stretch in the 3rd Q.

WiGGY!!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2022, 10:30:32 PM
Good night, everybody. Drive home safely.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 15, 2022, 10:13:53 AM
If you're hoping your team adds a free-agent small forward in the offseason, here are who The Athletic says will be the top 5 available:

Bruce Brown ... Joe Ingels ... Nicolas Batum ... Kelly Oubre ... Gary Payton II.

Yes, those are the top 5. And Batum (player option) and Oubre (partially guaranteed) might not even hit the market.

EDIT:

Just noticed that Wes is 9th on the list. Here's the write-up:

Matthews turns 36 in October and averaged 5.1 points per game last year yet was indispensable to the Bucks in the postseason because of his rugged defense. His offensive game has shriveled to nothingness — he made 34 2-point baskets the entire season, in 1,002 minutes, and barely made a third of his 3s — but as a role-playing wing, he still fills a niche.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2022, 11:43:48 AM
If you're hoping your team adds a free-agent small forward in the offseason, here are who The Athletic says will be the top 5 available:

Bruce Brown ... Joe Ingels ... Nicolas Batum ... Kelly Oubre ... Gary Payton II.

Yes, those are the top 5. And Batum (player option) and Oubre (partially guaranteed) might not even hit the market.

EDIT:

Just noticed that Wes is 9th on the list. Here's the write-up:

Matthews turns 36 in October and averaged 5.1 points per game last year yet was indispensable to the Bucks in the postseason because of his rugged defense. His offensive game has shriveled to nothingness — he made 34 2-point baskets the entire season, in 1,002 minutes, and barely made a third of his 3s — but as a role-playing wing, he still fills a niche.

Kind of a weird list. 

GP3 is not a SF.

Then ignores Kyle Anderson and Ja'Sean Tate from the Rockets.

But also, in the modern NBA, the 2/3 is fluid, so plenty of bigger SGs can play the 3.

Either way, good market for Juan to hit free agency as a SF
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 15, 2022, 11:45:59 AM
Kind of a weird list. 

GP3 is not a SF.

Then ignores Kyle Anderson and Ja'Sean Tate from the Rockets.

But also, in the modern NBA, the 2/3 is fluid, so plenty of bigger SGs can play the 3.

Either way, good market for Juan to hit free agency as a SF

Especially if he can do so with a new ring on his finger.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on June 15, 2022, 11:54:32 AM
Especially if he can do so with a new ring on his finger.

I don't see that changing his outlook at all.  Unless the Warriors top 5 guys go down with injury and he puts the Warriors scrubs on his back to win game 7, but I doubt that's happening either.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 15, 2022, 12:15:56 PM
He's a great team guy who's willing to accept a role at the end of a bench (which is what he will continue to be no matter where he goes). There is no big or even medium sized contract in the works from anyone. But even a small contract in the NBA is a good living.

Juan may be my fave ex-MU player in the NBA, so I hope he lands in a good situation. I suspect he may re-up with the Warriors.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2022, 12:21:21 PM
Yeah Juan is now 29 and was 13th on GSW in minutes this year.  He's just doing mop up duty in the playoffs.  He will be lucky to get anything more than a minimum deal next year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 15, 2022, 12:24:56 PM
Unless someone offers him a bonkers deal, I think he'll stick around with GS as long as they'll have him. He has pretty deep community ties there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2022, 12:28:21 PM
I do believe that Juan's rights are still owned by GSW as long as they make him a qualifying offer of about $2.1 million.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 15, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
Kind of a weird list. 

GP3 is not a SF.

Then ignores Kyle Anderson and Ja'Sean Tate from the Rockets.

But also, in the modern NBA, the 2/3 is fluid, so plenty of bigger SGs can play the 3.

Either way, good market for Juan to hit free agency as a SF

Payton plays like a F for GS -- kind of like the 2/3 you mention.

The writer, John Hollinger (a former front-office guy who is pretty connected), surprisingly doesn't mention Kyle Anderson at all. But he does briefly mention Tate this way:

Keep in mind that I’ve only listed reasonably possible free agents here. Jae’Sean Tate, for instance, is near certain to have his opt-in picked up for 2022-23, and thus I omitted him from this list. I’ve also declined to list partially guaranteed or non-guaranteed players who are highly unlikely to be waived (Josh Hart, for example). Other players who fall under this category and aren’t listed include Max Strus, Terry Taylor, Naji Marshall, Kessler Edwards and Dalano Banton.

As for Juan, he has been a good story and it's been cool for us fellow MU alums to see this happen for him, but he'll probably be fighting for his career again after this season. I'll be rooting for him!

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 07:56:46 PM
Who ya got tonight??  I'd really like to see GSW end this thing. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 08:12:51 PM
Good adjustment by Udoka going into the post.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Poole with a quick 8. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 09:10:20 PM
Very sloppy close to the half by Golden State.  Had a chance to push it to 25 and lost total focus.  Hopefully it doesn't bite them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2022, 09:49:56 PM
Too much standing around and flinging up 3s by GS late in 3Q.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 09:50:46 PM
Kerr has to be furious.  Golden State  was in total control and a number of asinine decisions has now made  this a ball game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
I believe the score at one point was 72-50.  I think the Dubs have scored 2 pts in 7 mins.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2022, 09:58:07 PM
Klay Thompson is not consistently good at basketball any more, and Curry needs help from someone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Fouls will be important in the 4Q.  GS with two total free throws.  Nevertheless, in two stretches in the game their sloppiness brought Boston back in this thing.  Very upsetting.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2022, 10:03:04 PM
Klay Thompson is not consistently good at basketball any more, and Curry needs help from someone.

Taking the under on Klay points has been $$$$$
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
Brutal game for Klay.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:08:58 PM
Time for Curry to take them home.  Green and Poole have been really good tonight and fortunately the Celtics have rec league turnovers as usual.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2022, 10:10:37 PM
Celtics should keep going to whomever Curry is defending. Tire him out, get fouls on him, let him try to stop Tatum or Brown.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:12:11 PM
Sweet Jesus. Idiotic live ball turn by Green.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:14:03 PM
Thompson is killing me!!  Give Curry the freaking ball on every possession.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2022, 10:15:49 PM
I feel so vindicated with this Klay Thompson performance.

Everyone at the office was taking alt line overs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:16:27 PM
Thank you Udoka for guarding Curry one on one. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:17:21 PM
Miserable game from Tatum.  Yikes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
YESSS!!!!

Cannot stand Boston although I do like R.Williams III.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 16, 2022, 10:24:43 PM
Tatum absolutely was not ready for the bright lights.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:28:10 PM
Tatum absolutely was not ready for the bright lights.

He had a rough series.  You have to tip your cap to Kerr, he's  a heck of a coach.  Udoka couldn't press the right buttons but their turnovers  were the biggest story. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2022, 10:28:31 PM
Thank you Udoka for guarding Curry one on one.

Curry is just too good. Draymond showed up. Got enough from Wiggins to end this.

Curry is underrated.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2022, 10:29:13 PM
If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant’s a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don’t need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:30:59 PM
Curry is just too good. Draymond showed up. Got enough from Wiggins to end this.

Curry is underrated.

He's truly unbelievable.  I don't think it's blasphemous to put him in the top 10 all-time and perhaps top 5? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBBau on June 16, 2022, 10:31:16 PM
Juan Anderson, NBA Champion
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:33:06 PM
If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant’s a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don’t need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.

Wiggins was very good defensively but it's remarkable Curry was able to absolutely carry this team to another title because Klay was pretty much a mess and Draymond had two good games. Kerr is really good and Curry is beyond special. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:34:09 PM
BtW Iguodola getting the MVP that one year was a complete joke.  Curry should have two.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 16, 2022, 10:38:08 PM
Steph > LBJ.

I said it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:45:06 PM
Steph > LBJ.

I said it.

That's tough......but it's certainly worth discussing and his resume is quite strong.  :)  You do have to wonder what Lebron and Durant are thinking right now.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: withoutbias on June 16, 2022, 10:49:08 PM
If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant’s a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don’t need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.

Yet Durant was the best player on those Warriors teams by far.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 16, 2022, 10:52:39 PM
He's truly unbelievable.  I don't think it's blasphemous to put him in the top 10 all-time and perhaps top 5?

I think he cemented his place in the Top 10. I have no problem putting him ahead of a great player like Durant.

Curry was not just a great player. He changed the game of professional basketball. Very few guys have ever done that.

Top 5 is still to high, though.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 16, 2022, 10:53:37 PM
Yet Durant was the best player on those Warriors teams by far.

No.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 10:56:43 PM
I remember when Mike Lucas said in '08 before the Davidson/Weasel S16 game something like "one guy can't beat a team like the Badgers".  Uhh....nice try Lucas.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 16, 2022, 10:58:20 PM
I think he cemented his place in the Top 10. I have no problem putting him ahead of a great player like Durant.

Curry was not just a great player. He changed the game of professional basketball. Very few guys have ever done that.

Top 5 is still to high, though.

The dude just won a title with Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins as the second and third best players on his team. 4th title. LBJ has lost titles with Wade and Bosh on his team and has never won a title without another top 10 player in the NBA at the peak of their game. He’s done more with less than LBJ has ever done. So if LBJ is thought of as top 2 and maybe 1…

Steph is unquestionably top 5 ever.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 11:01:57 PM
No.

Ya...that's kind of where I'm at simply because of his size.  But he's gotten better as a defender.  Pound for pound and inch for inch though?  Curry is #1.  Remember, if you didn't know who this guy was and he walked into an open gym he doesn't look like a physical freak.  He actually is underrated, I agree with forgetful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 11:03:34 PM
The dude just won a title with Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins as the second and third best players on his team. 4th title. LBJ has lost titles with Wade and Bosh on his team and has never won a title without another top 10 player in the NBA at the peak of their game. He’s done more with less than LBJ has ever done. So if LBJ is thought of as top 2 and maybe 1…

Steph is unquestionably top 5 ever.

It's a compelling argument.  I'm still kind of in disbelief but this also cements Kerr's legacy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 11:07:43 PM
Also, we shouldn't forget Lebron's performance in the 2011 Finals that deprived Wade his 4th ring. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PointWarrior on June 16, 2022, 11:09:53 PM
unnatural carnal knowledge the Celtics :).  Bucks were the better team with Middleton healthy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 11:11:31 PM
unnatural carnal knowledge the Celtics :).  Bucks were the better team with Middleton healthy.

Agreed but I still think the Bucks need make a few moves. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Johnny B on June 16, 2022, 11:21:38 PM
sam is a puss. never took a shot in all his garbage time in the play offs. it was hot potato when he touched it
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 16, 2022, 11:29:31 PM
sam is a puss. never took a shot in all his garbage time in the play offs. it was hot potato when he touched it

Plays the game the right way.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 16, 2022, 11:32:35 PM
The dude just won a title with Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins as the second and third best players on his team. 4th title. LBJ has lost titles with Wade and Bosh on his team and has never won a title without another top 10 player in the NBA at the peak of their game. He’s done more with less than LBJ has ever done. So if LBJ is thought of as top 2 and maybe 1…

Steph is unquestionably top 5 ever.


I respect your opinion - but I disagree.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 16, 2022, 11:41:56 PM
Who's your non-Curry Top 5?

Is it:

Jordan
Jabbar
James
Bird
Magic

?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 17, 2022, 12:01:46 AM
Who's your non-Curry Top 5?

Is it:

Jordan
Jabbar
James
Bird
Magic

?

My phone personal opinion. Jordan a clear number 1. Turn a decent number of all time elite players in the 2-10 slots that one could argue one way or another on. Curry you s in that group.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 17, 2022, 12:03:28 AM
Steve Kerr HOF
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 17, 2022, 04:02:49 AM
If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant’s a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don’t need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.


So you are saying Durant is better than Wiggins, but GSW is better than any other team that Durant’s been on.

Hard hitting analysis right there.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 08:11:50 AM

So you are saying Durant is better than Wiggins, but GSW is better than any other team that Durant’s been on.

Hard hitting analysis right there.

Here's some analysis:

Boston had much more success guarding Durant than they did Curry in the playoffs.  The 2nd best offensive player on Golden State was Wiggins, whereas Uncle Drew was the 2nd best player on Brooklyn. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 17, 2022, 08:29:37 AM
Here's some analysis:

Boston had much more success guarding Durant than they did Curry in the playoffs.  The 2nd best offensive player on Golden State was Wiggins, whereas Uncle Drew was the 2nd best player on Brooklyn. 

Cool!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 08:38:35 AM
Cool!

That's your retort?   "Cool"? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 17, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant’s a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don’t need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.

Did Durant kick your dog? I think he made a bet that a super team with Kyrie and others would work. If not for some injuries and a toe on the line, he might have been right.

It also sounds like he wasn’t all that happy in GS. He received a lot of backlash for his move. I don’t know him, but wouldn’t be surprised if he is at peace with his decision.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 08:49:56 AM
In all seriousness the reason Golden State has been so successful is because of their defense.  Ask yourself why they could guard Boston and say Milwaukee couldn't at all?  Now yes, when they had Durant they had overwhelming talent but they have always been elite defensively and have never really had a rim protector.  That's a testament to Kerr and their coaching staff along with the players understanding rotations and their roles.  It's pretty eye opening that a 6'10 Jayson Tatum couldn't get to the rim whereas Curry was getting lay-ups regularly.  Kerr is elite as a coach.  LIght years better than Budenholzer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 17, 2022, 09:03:26 AM
That's your retort?   "Cool"? 

Yes.  What else should I say when people state obvious things, that I was never commenting on in the first place???
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 17, 2022, 09:37:50 AM
Congrats to Steve Kerr.  Nine titles as a player and coach.  Better person
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUfan12 on June 17, 2022, 10:16:41 AM
In all seriousness the reason Golden State has been so successful is because of their defense.  Ask yourself why they could guard Boston and say Milwaukee couldn't at all? Now yes, when they had Durant they had overwhelming talent but they have always been elite defensively and have never really had a rim protector.  That's a testament to Kerr and their coaching staff along with the players understanding rotations and their roles.  It's pretty eye opening that a 6'10 Jayson Tatum couldn't get to the rim whereas Curry was getting lay-ups regularly.  Kerr is elite as a coach.  LIght years better than Budenholzer.

Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 17, 2022, 10:27:40 AM
Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.

Yep
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2022, 10:43:57 AM
Bringing up Durant at all in this discussion is just dumb.  Celebrate Curry's historic greatness, Kerr's ability as a coach, and the Warrior's FO bouncing back and rebuilding a roster a bit and adding some key pieces.  Using this as a chance to bag on Durant or rehash his decision to leave is just silly agenda pushing.

Ime Udoka is an excellent coach who did a lot of really great things all playoffs...but how he let the Warriors continue to switch Horford onto Curry and then Steph just torching him repeatedly...was baffling to say the least.

Draymond is polarizing to say the least, and he was AWFUL at points in the series...but my god did he hit some huge shots last night.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 17, 2022, 11:52:36 AM
My phone personal opinion. Jordan a clear number 1. Turn a decent number of all time elite players in the 2-10 slots that one could argue one way or another on. Curry you s in that group.

I would mostly agree - except I think it is 3 guys at the top and then an argument can be made for about 10 guys to round out the top 10.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 12:03:03 PM
Bringing up Durant at all in this discussion is just dumb.  Celebrate Curry's historic greatness, Kerr's ability as a coach, and the Warrior's FO bouncing back and rebuilding a roster a bit and adding some key pieces.  Using this as a chance to bag on Durant or rehash his decision to leave is just silly agenda pushing.

Ime Udoka is an excellent coach who did a lot of really great things all playoffs...but how he let the Warriors continue to switch Horford onto Curry and then Steph just torching him repeatedly...was baffling to say the least.

Draymond is polarizing to say the least, and he was AWFUL at points in the series...but my god did he hit some huge shots last night.

One thing that made no sense to me,, and I don't t think it's Udoka's fault, is that Curry found himself in isolation vs their bigs constantly.  Isn't Marcus Smart the so called DPOY?  He's  not good enough to get around screens?  He's not mentally capable of understanding that an auto-switch is death vs Curry?  DPOY?  Really?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 12:06:40 PM
Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.

You're right, their offense was bad too.  But they also got torched in G4 and G6 at home.  They allowed Bostion to get better shots all series They are nowhere near as good defensively as Golden State.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 17, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Bucks win that series in 6 and maybe the title if Middleton is healthy. You need tough shot makers against Boston's D. The Bucks have one. He couldn't play.

Not sure how they would have fared against GS. Jrue is about as good of a defender at the PG spot as you could ask for but Steph and Klay probably would have torched the drop coverage. On the other hand, GS really has nobody for Giannis.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 17, 2022, 12:22:09 PM
One thing that made no sense to me,, and I don't t think it's Udoka's fault, is that Curry found himself in isolation vs their bigs constantly.  Isn't Marcus Smart the so called DPOY?  He's  not good enough to get around screens?  He's not mentally capable of understanding that an auto-switch is death vs Curry?  DPOY?  Really?

I think that was a clear choice by Udoka. If it happened once it might be on the player. But they were switching everything 1-5 in the last six minutes. GS didn't have to work all that hard to get Horford onto Steph during that stretch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 12:25:33 PM
Bucks win that series in 6 and maybe the title if Middleton is healthy. You need tough shot makers against Boston's D. The Bucks have one. He couldn't play.

Not sure how they would have fared against GS. Jrue is about as good of a defender at the PG spot as you could ask for but Steph and Klay probably would have torched the drop coverage. On the other hand, GS really has nobody for Giannis.

That's pretty accurate but I think GS would live with Giannis going off and shutting down the rest of their team.  Holiday'would have to play better offensively and he might have with Middleton.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 17, 2022, 12:27:47 PM
A couple of thoughts about GS:

There was a huge contrast between the leaders on the Warriors (Green, Curry, Iguadola) as compared to the leader on the T'Wolves involving Andrew Wiggins. Jimmy Butler decided to rip Wiggins to his core for not playing as Butler thought he should. To Jimmy, his own ego was all that mattered. At GS, they decided to build Wiggins up to get him to become the player he could be. They made it about Wiggins - not about themselves. This is one of the reasons that Jimmy is probably my least favorite ex-Warrior in the NBA.


Second, I compare the outlook of GM Bob Myers to that of Jerry Krause. Myers says:

"What I said, and I said to our owner and believe and still believe was we owe it to them — meaning those three guys — to give them a chance to succeed or fail. And they hadn’t had that yet, for two years. And they didn’t even get it through the regular season. … So I’ve always held on to that. But there was no thought of ‘Well, we’ve got to break this up.’ We just thought that they’ve done so well together, let’s not be the ones to end it. If it ends because we get beat or things change or whatever happens, fine. But let’s not be the reason they didn’t get another shot at this thing. That was the motivation."
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 12:34:00 PM
I think that was a clear choice by Udoka. If it happened once it might be on the player. But they were switching everything 1-5 in the last six minutes. GS didn't have to work all that hard to get Horford onto Steph during that stretch.

Did it make any sense to you whether it was Udoka or Smart?  I didn't understand it  but was thrilled. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 17, 2022, 12:39:43 PM
Did it make any sense to you whether it was Udoka or Smart?  I didn't understand it  but was thrilled.

It did not make sense to me. Horford did about as good of a job as he could on Curry but as soon as they got that switch you knew it was going to end in a basket.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 17, 2022, 12:49:20 PM
A couple of thoughts about GS:

There was a huge contrast between the leaders on the Warriors (Green, Curry, Iguadola) as compared to the leader on the T'Wolves involving Andrew Wiggins. Jimmy Butler decided to rip Wiggins to his core for not playing as Butler thought he should. To Jimmy, his own ego was all that mattered. At GS, they decided to build Wiggins up to get him to become the player he could be. They made it about Wiggins - not about themselves. This is one of the reasons that Jimmy is probably my least favorite ex-Warrior in the NBA.


Second, I compare the outlook of GM Bob Myers to that of Jerry Krause. Myers says:

"What I said, and I said to our owner and believe and still believe was we owe it to them — meaning those three guys — to give them a chance to succeed or fail. And they hadn’t had that yet, for two years. And they didn’t even get it through the regular season. … So I’ve always held on to that. But there was no thought of ‘Well, we’ve got to break this up.’ We just thought that they’ve done so well together, let’s not be the ones to end it. If it ends because we get beat or things change or whatever happens, fine. But let’s not be the reason they didn’t get another shot at this thing. That was the motivation."

Think its definitely safe to say Jimmy was not the same impact on Wiggins that the Warriors core was but...

Wiggins was not the brunt of Jimmys wrath. That was Kat.

A huge thing that helped Wiggins was he finally was able to stop being what everyone thought he would be. Hes not the guy, he never will be the guy. But hes a natural talent that when you put him on a team where hes never required to be a top 3 player(but still can be) then he can really succeed.

Jimmy and Wiggins to this day are still pretty cordial with each other I believe.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2022, 12:54:43 PM
Think its definitely safe to say Jimmy was not the same impact on Wiggins that the Warriors core was but...

Wiggins was not the brunt of Jimmys wrath. That was Kat.

A huge thing that helped Wiggins was he finally was able to stop being what everyone thought he would be. Hes not the guy, he never will be the guy. But hes a natural talent that when you put him on a team where hes never required to be a top 3 player(but still can be) then he can really succeed.

Jimmy and Wiggins to this day are still pretty cordial with each other I believe.

Butler has been effusive in his praise of Wiggins behind closed doors.   Jimmy talked about it on his way out of Minny to the organization.    Iguadola talked about it from their time in Miami. Iggy even said Butler made him look at Wiggins completely differently as a player.

Wiggins is also a vet in his late 20s instead of a young guy needing to be THE MAN with huge expectations like he was in Minny, that probably went a long way in helping him react well to leadership as well.

I can't believe we're still talking about Butler's ego about him being a leader like its a bad thing when he's dragging his team through the playoffs and KAT's Timberwolves play like mental midgets.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 17, 2022, 12:57:14 PM
It did not make sense to me. Horford did about as good of a job as he could on Curry but as soon as they got that switch you knew it was going to end in a basket.

Exactly.  And I think autoswitching happens far too often.   As a side note I'm sort of tired of "the greatest shooter ever" label for Curry.  It connotes that he's in the mold of a MIller or Ray Allen type player.  He's not.  The guy has tremendous handles and the ability to score all over the floor.  He's not only one of the greatest scorers ever, but he can do it both with or away from the ball.  He also is vastly underrated as a distributor.  He creates a ton of offense without direct assists a la the hockey assist.  Now he doesn't get to the line like other great scorers but the triple is the great equalizer.    He may be the 2nd most dangerous scorer in history.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 18, 2022, 07:16:17 AM
Did Durant kick your dog? I think he made a bet that a super team with Kyrie and others would work. If not for some injuries and a toe on the line, he might have been right.

It also sounds like he wasn’t all that happy in GS. He received a lot of backlash for his move. I don’t know him, but wouldn’t be surprised if he is at peace with his decision.

I've called Durant great, spectacular and a top-10 all-time talent. So obviously I hate him.

When putting Curry's career in perspective, I happen to think the fact that he won with and without Durant while Durant never won without Curry -- even though Durant chose to leave and tried but failed (at least so far) to build his own superteam -- says even more about Curry's place in history.

I just think it's an interesting subject. If others don't, that's fine.

And the "toe on the line" defense of Durant is silly. It was his toe. He's an all-time great. He's taken a bazillion 3s. So ... know where your effen toe is and know where the effen line is in that situation.

(In comments afterward, he blamed his "big-ass foot" and said "it wasn't in God's plan." Who knew The Almighty was a Bucks fan?)

Anyway, good on Curry, Kerr, Wiggins and the rest of the Warriors for a well-deserved NBA title.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 18, 2022, 08:39:22 AM
Durant and OKC probably win the 2012 title if Lebron, Bosh, and Wade don't form a super team in Miami.

Then OKC dealt Harden because the owners were cheap and didn't want to pay everyone and have a large luxury tax bill.

So I don't think Durant deserves any flack for doing what he needed to do to win a title.  It just so happened that the NBA had a huge jump in the cap at the same time.  And GSW had really good contracts at the time.  IIRC, Curry was on his 4 yr/$44 million deal so the Warriors had cap space to sign Durant outright.

But I think the relationship between Durant and the Warriors soured after he injured his achilles.  Durant returned too early from his calf injury and I think that the achilles injury destroyed his trust of the franchise. So he moved on.

Interestingly enough, Durant did a sign and trade that resulted in the Warriors get D'Angelo Russell, who the Warriors eventually flipped to get Wiggins.  The Warriors won this title in part, thanks to their ability to retain some asset value for Durant.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 18, 2022, 12:26:27 PM
Interestingly enough, Durant did a sign and trade that resulted in the Warriors get D'Angelo Russell, who the Warriors eventually flipped to get Wiggins.  The Warriors won this title in part, thanks to their ability to retain some asset value for Durant.

That's a great point. Most sign-and-trades yield little if anything for the team that gives up the star, but GS sure scored there.

I don't hold it against Durant that he decided to form a superteam with Curry & Co. or that he left to try to form his own superteam. I just happen to think it's interesting -- and a credit to Curry -- that he won one before Durant showed up and won another after Durant left.

If Durant is a top-20 player or better -- and I'm pretty sure all of us think he is -- it just makes Curry's accomplishments all the more impressive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2022, 09:36:52 AM
Now that Curry won another title, some of the hoops folks at The Athletic have debated where he stands on their top-75 lists ...

John Hollinger, senior columnist: Does this move him up past, say, Dirk Nowitzki and David Robinson on my list? I think he has a stronger argument now than he did a year ago, but the bulk of that argument is from 2015 to 2020 either way. Sooo … he is definitely more firmly a top-20 player with ring No. 4, but the bar to move the needle at this level is insanely high. Let’s call him No. 17 on my list now.

Jason Jones, staff writer: Curry is certainly top-10. I’d have him behind Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Russell and Kobe.

Rob Peterson, senior editor: I had Curry at No. 14, Kobe at 13, Olajuwon at No. 12 and KD at 11. I’d move Curry ahead of Kobe and Hakeem, and then I’d need to weigh the Curry-KD dynamic.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 19, 2022, 09:46:15 AM
Who cares
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 19, 2022, 09:49:38 AM
Now that Curry won another title, some of the hoops folks at The Athletic have debated where he stands on their top-75 lists ...

John Hollinger, senior columnist: Does this move him up past, say, Dirk Nowitzki and David Robinson on my list? I think he has a stronger argument now than he did a year ago, but the bulk of that argument is from 2015 to 2020 either way. Sooo … he is definitely more firmly a top-20 player with ring No. 4, but the bar to move the needle at this level is insanely high. Let’s call him No. 17 on my list now.

Jason Jones, staff writer: Curry is certainly top-10. I’d have him behind Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Russell and Kobe.

Rob Peterson, senior editor: I had Curry at No. 14, Kobe at 13, Olajuwon at No. 12 and KD at 11. I’d move Curry ahead of Kobe and Hakeem, and then I’d need to weigh the Curry-KD dynamic.

Ya... I think they're  crazy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 19, 2022, 10:13:29 AM
Now that Curry won another title, some of the hoops folks at The Athletic have debated where he stands on their top-75 lists ...

John Hollinger, senior columnist: Does this move him up past, say, Dirk Nowitzki and David Robinson on my list? I think he has a stronger argument now than he did a year ago, but the bulk of that argument is from 2015 to 2020 either way. Sooo … he is definitely more firmly a top-20 player with ring No. 4, but the bar to move the needle at this level is insanely high. Let’s call him No. 17 on my list now.

Jason Jones, staff writer: Curry is certainly top-10. I’d have him behind Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Russell and Kobe.

Rob Peterson, senior editor: I had Curry at No. 14, Kobe at 13, Olajuwon at No. 12 and KD at 11. I’d move Curry ahead of Kobe and Hakeem, and then I’d need to weigh the Curry-KD dynamic.

I agree with Jason Jones. I means Hollinger has him at 17?🤪🤪🤪
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 19, 2022, 11:34:01 PM
Ya... I think they're  crazy.

Would you have Curry ahead of Durant, Muggs? How about Kobe? Who do you have him ranked behind?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 05:00:30 AM
Would you have Curry ahead of Durant, Muggs? How about Kobe? Who do you have him ranked behind?

I would have Curry ahead of both of them.  Let's just start with the fact and reiterate that he just won a title, at 34, with Andrew Wiggins as his #2.  Now when it comes to the top 10 it's extremely difficult because eras are impossible to compare, guys train much differently, and the game has changed a lot.  For example I don't look at Wilt, Shaq, Jabbar, Duncan, or Russell as players that can't be high on the list.  I also believe it's important to recognize that that there were far fewer teams in the past and that an argument can be made that the competition was better on a regular basis, not worse.

The bottom line is it's very difficult to rank players because the post game really doesn't exist anymore and bigs in particular didn't handle the ball and play on the perimeter like they do today.  At the same time that doesn't mean people would rate Jabbar or Duncan behind Anthony Davis and Tatum.  At least not right now. 

But since it's fun to rank and discuss I will share my top 10 and where I would slot Curry.  I can't put him ahead of Jordan, Jabbar, or James and I would imagine most would echo this sentiment.  After that is where it gets tough.  You have the Magic, Bird, Wilt tier.....is Curry realistically in their class or better?  Wilt changed the game and statistically was unmatched.  Magic and Bird also changed the game but had much shorter careers than Curry.   And guess what?  Curry isn't done.  He may get a 5th ring and three as the #1 option.  As for Wilt?  Yes, he only has two rings but he played against a Celtics team with much greater overall talent. 

Anyway, here is my top 10:

10) Russell
9)  Shaq
8) Duncan
7) Bird
6) Magic
5) Chamberlain
4) Curry
3) James
2) Jabbar
1) Jordan

* Statistically is very difficult not to have Robertson in the Top 10

** Olajuwon, Kobe, and Durant were hard to leave off.

*** Giannis and Doncic could one day be considered

**** Curry trails only one player as the best pound for pound of all-time and can't catch him because he's a foot taller.  :)

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on June 20, 2022, 08:06:23 AM
I would have Curry ahead of both of them.  Let's just start with the fact and reiterate that he just won a title, at 36, with Andrew Wiggins as his #2.  Now when it comes to the top 10 it's extremely difficult because eras are impossible to compare, guys train much differently, and the game has changed a lot.  For example I don't look at Wilt, Shaq, Jabbar, Duncan, or Russell as players that can't be high on the list.  I also believe it's important to recognize that that there were far fewer teams in the past and that an argument can be made that the competition was better on a regular basis, not worse.

The bottom line is it's very difficult to rank players because the post game really doesn't exist anymore and bigs in particular didn't handle the ball and play on the perimeter like they do today.  At the same time that doesn't mean people would rate Jabbar or Duncan behind Anthony Davis and Tatum.  At least not right now. 

But since it's fun to rank and discuss I will share my top 10 and where I would slot Curry.  I can't put him ahead of Jordan, Jabbar, or James and I would imagine most would echo this sentiment.  After that is where it gets tough.  You have the Magic, Bird, Wilt tier.....is Curry realistically in their class or better?  Wilt changed the game and statistically was unmatched.  Magic and Bird also changed the game but had much shorter careers than Curry.   And guess what?  Curry isn't done.  He may get a 5th ring and three as the #1 option.  As for Wilt?  Yes, he only has two rings but he played against a Celtics team with much greater overall talent. 

Anyway, here is my top 10:

10) Russell
9)  Shaq
8) Duncan
7) Bird
6) Magic
5) Chamberlain
4) Curry
3) James
2) Jabbar
1) Jordan

* Statistically is very difficult not to have Robertson in the Top 10

** Olajuwon, Kobe, and Durant were hard to leave off.

*** Giannis and Doncic could one day be considered

**** Curry trails only one player as the best pound for pound of all-time and can't catch him because he's a foot taller.  :)
Ranking is a hard exercise . For example , Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were the two best guards for many many years and Very complete players . West led the Lakers to the Finals 9 out of his 14 years.

Others like Dr J and Elgin Baylor were also phenomenal in their day.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 20, 2022, 08:16:49 AM
All hall of fame worthy.   Celebrate their greatness without tearing down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 09:59:08 AM
I would have Curry ahead of both of them.  Let's just start with the fact and reiterate that he just won a title, at 34, with Andrew Wiggins as his #2.  Now when it comes to the top 10 it's extremely difficult because eras are impossible to compare, guys train much differently, and the game has changed a lot.  For example I don't look at Wilt, Shaq, Jabbar, Duncan, or Russell as players that can't be high on the list.  I also believe it's important to recognize that that there were far fewer teams in the past and that an argument can be made that the competition was better on a regular basis, not worse.

The bottom line is it's very difficult to rank players because the post game really doesn't exist anymore and bigs in particular didn't handle the ball and play on the perimeter like they do today.  At the same time that doesn't mean people would rate Jabbar or Duncan behind Anthony Davis and Tatum.  At least not right now. 

But since it's fun to rank and discuss I will share my top 10 and where I would slot Curry.  I can't put him ahead of Jordan, Jabbar, or James and I would imagine most would echo this sentiment.  After that is where it gets tough.  You have the Magic, Bird, Wilt tier.....is Curry realistically in their class or better?  Wilt changed the game and statistically was unmatched.  Magic and Bird also changed the game but had much shorter careers than Curry.   And guess what?  Curry isn't done.  He may get a 5th ring and three as the #1 option.  As for Wilt?  Yes, he only has two rings but he played against a Celtics team with much greater overall talent. 

Anyway, here is my top 10:

10) Russell
9)  Shaq
8) Duncan
7) Bird
6) Magic
5) Chamberlain
4) Curry
3) James
2) Jabbar
1) Jordan

* Statistically is very difficult not to have Robertson in the Top 10

** Olajuwon, Kobe, and Durant were hard to leave off.

*** Giannis and Doncic could one day be considered

**** Curry trails only one player as the best pound for pound of all-time and can't catch him because he's a foot taller.  :)


Good list.  I won't get into the rankings, but I would take off Bird and Shaq and insert Durant and Kobe.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 11:32:06 AM

Good list.  I won't get into the rankings, but I would take off Bird and Shaq and insert Durant and Kobe.

That's tough for me to see.   Shaq was so dominant and was the top dog on three title teams.  He literally couldn't be guarded at all in his prime with his strength and quickness at his height/weight.  And while you can say that about a lot of guys one on one,  it was slightly different with Shaq and Kareem imo. 

The result of trying to guard Shaq was either he dunked, got a 3-6 footer, or was fouled.  His shooting percentagei vs single coveage had to be extraordinarily high.  To have a guy like Shaq or Kareem in your half court offense, that could always get a high percentage shot, puts a different kind of pressure on the defense.  Even with Shaq' s free throw woes.  In other words Jordan, Bird, Durant, Kobe, Curry, etc could have bad shooting games or force bad shots.  Shaq and I assume Kareem very rarely did this and their presence also made their teammates around them better.  I do think Shaq from a talent perspective should have been the best center that ever lived but he ate way too much and didn't have the work ethic of others.

Bird's numbers when he was healthy are insane frankly.  Before his back went out he had three titles, three MVP's, and I think two Finals MVP's.  Now he's before my time but offensively his overall skill set was extremely impressive.  He's often described as slow and a guy that couldn't jump but neither are actually true.  He was a much better athlete than he's given credit and had maybe the best basketball mind and eye hand coordination ever.  Personally I think he would absolutely kill it in this era.  Kobe and Durant are definitely more talented but that doesn't mean they were better basketball players. 

I think Durant has to lead a team to a title to be on my top 10.  He was the best player on Golden State but Curry ultimately made it work by playing off the ball more.  Durant is arguably the best pure scorer ever and he had a lot of space to operate with Curry and Klay on the floor.  Fair or not, by joining a championship team, Durant's titles were basically inevitable. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 12:02:35 PM
Kevin Durant is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was. Bird was a better passer, but that's about it IMO.

But the criticism of him joining the Warriors to get his title is nonsense. Bird had three HOF teammates on those Celtics teams - he had a super team built around him.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 12:05:06 PM


Anyway, here is my top 10:

10) Russell
9)  Shaq
8) Duncan
7) Bird
6) Magic
5) Chamberlain
4) Curry
3) James
2) Jabbar
1) Jordan


Magic is the hard one here because his career was cut short. Otherwise he would be in the 2-4 range. As is, I'd still have him in the 5-7 range.

I have watched basketball long enough that I rank players based on how good they were in the time they played, rather than judge them on todays standards. They trained differently, were taught differently and had certain aspects of the game emphasized differently.

The 1st 3 are easy:

1. Kareem
2. MJ
3. LeBron

The next group could be argued about over position.
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Russell
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9, 10. Kobe, Shaq, Curry or Oscar
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 12:15:10 PM
Kevin Durant is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was. Bird was a better passer, but that's about it IMO.

But the criticism of him joining the Warriors to get his title is nonsense. Bird had three HOF teammates on those Celtics teams - he had a super team built around him.

I get that opinion but again, players back then didn't train like they do now.  The game was also more physical on the ball and guys got clobbered at the rim.  We also don't know how good McHale and Parrish would have been without Bird.  McHale I feel would have been fine and a probable Hall of Famer.  Parrish I'm a lot less sure about.  There's a big difference IMO between joining a championship team than building one. Golden State won 73 games one year Fluffy without Durant and would have won that Finals if Green wasn't a bone head.  The fact is that while there have always been superteams, when Durant joined the Warriors no rational person thought if healthy they wouldn't win the championship.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 12:18:58 PM
Kevin Durant is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was. Bird was a better passer, but that's about it IMO.

But the criticism of him joining the Warriors to get his title is nonsense. Bird had three HOF teammates on those Celtics teams - he had a super team built around him.

I disagree.

As a rookie, Bird led the Celtics to 61 wins compared to 20-something the year before he got there with an almost identical roster. Those HoFers weren't in Boston yet. Durant makes a team way better and that equates to a lot more wins, but he could never have done (even now) what Bird did as a rookie.

I am not convinced that Bird would not have been just as good of a three point shooter as Durant if that had been emphasized at that time. Remember - the 3 point shot was not one of Bird's primary weapons when he played. Yet, once the 3 point contest was added to All-Star weekend, he won it. Then he won it again the next year. Then, he won it yet again the next year.

I think 'recency bias' is the only way Durant is ranked above some of the all-time greats. I would have him in the top 13-15 all-time.

But I love these discussions and people's reasons for rankings. It is definitely subjective and it's hard to say someone is flat out wrong.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 12:21:49 PM
Magic is the hard one here because his career was cut short. Otherwise he would be in the 2-4 range. As is, I'd still have him in the 5-7 range.

I have watched basketball long enough that I rank players based on how good they were in the time they played, rather than judge them on todays standards. They trained differently, were taught differently and had certain aspects of the game emphasized differently.

The 1st 3 are easy:

1. Kareem
2. MJ
3. LeBron

The next group could be argued about over position.
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Russell
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9, 10. Kobe, Shaq, Curry or Oscar

I think your list is fair.  My caveat would be that Curry changed the game and is also by all accounts a great teammate.  I would also say that not a lot of guys could have led this particular team to a championship.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2022, 12:26:34 PM
I am not convinced that Bird would not have been just as good of a three point shooter as Durant if that had been emphasized at that time. Remember - the 3 point shot was not one of Bird's primary weapons when he played. Yet, once the 3 point contest was added to All-Star weekend, he won it. Then he won it again the next year. Then, he won it yet again the next year.

Part of what makes Durant arguably the best scorer ever is physical.  He has a 7'5 wingspan and a 34" vertical while being basically 6'11 (there is no way he's 6'9).  Bird was 6'9 but had a 28" vert and a much smaller wingspan.  Its nearly impossible, unless you're Giannis, to block a KD jumper outside of literal perfect timing.  Also way quicker than Bird.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 12:39:19 PM
Part of what makes Durant arguably the best scorer ever is physical.  He has a 7'5 wingspan and a 34" vertical while being basically 6'11 (there is no way he's 6'9).  Bird was 6'9 but had a 28" vert and a much smaller wingspan.  Its nearly impossible, unless you're Giannis, to block a KD jumper outside of literal perfect timing.  Also way quicker than Bird.

Bird's stats are crazy though.  He was clearly a very good rebounder and passer. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
I disagree.

As a rookie, Bird led the Celtics to 61 wins compared to 20-something the year before he got there with an almost identical roster. Those HoFers weren't in Boston yet. Durant makes a team way better and that equates to a lot more wins, but he could never have done (even now) what Bird did as a rookie.

I am not convinced that Bird would not have been just as good of a three point shooter as Durant if that had been emphasized at that time. Remember - the 3 point shot was not one of Bird's primary weapons when he played. Yet, once the 3 point contest was added to All-Star weekend, he won it. Then he won it again the next year. Then, he won it yet again the next year.

I think 'recency bias' is the only way Durant is ranked above some of the all-time greats. I would have him in the top 13-15 all-time.

But I love these discussions and people's reasons for rankings. It is definitely subjective and it's hard to say someone is flat out wrong.

Jockey, I like your analysis here.  I happen to catch an interview with Rick Barry recently.  He talked about how much different he would have been as a player in this era.  He pointed out that it's not that his game in the 70's would or wouldn't have translated today, it's that he would literally be a completely different player.  The weight and aerobic training, the amount of practice of 3pt shots, the rules to a degree, the comforts off the court, the outside attack vs post play, etc, etc.  He said he wouldn't be a little better, he'd be way, way,  better.  I have to think he's right.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 12:58:21 PM
Part of what makes Durant arguably the best scorer ever is physical.  He has a 7'5 wingspan and a 34" vertical while being basically 6'11 (there is no way he's 6'9).  Bird was 6'9 but had a 28" vert and a much smaller wingspan.  Its nearly impossible, unless you're Giannis, to block a KD jumper outside of literal perfect timing.  Also way quicker than Bird.

I have no argument with what you say. Bird was a different kind of shooter that Durant. Also a much different athlete. But so is Jokic (slow, no vertical) and he is the one earning MVPs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 01:07:49 PM
There's a big difference IMO between joining a championship team than building one.

Not when it comes to judging the quality of the player.  They are always judged vis-a-vis who is around them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on June 20, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
Magic is the hard one here because his career was cut short. Otherwise he would be in the 2-4 range. As is, I'd still have him in the 5-7 range.

I have watched basketball long enough that I rank players based on how good they were in the time they played, rather than judge them on todays standards. They trained differently, were taught differently and had certain aspects of the game emphasized differently.

The 1st 3 are easy:

1. Kareem
2. MJ
3. LeBron

The next group could be argued about over position.
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Russell
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9, 10. Kobe, Shaq, Curry or Oscar
I like this list . In my experience Jerry West was a game Changing force on the court and a top 5 level player .
 Had a huge competitive desire,tough as nails, incredible athleticism could jump to the moon and had very broad shoulders with long arms ,   was excellent on offense and defense and incredible basketball knowledge . His name was Mr Clutch for a reason.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 01:12:43 PM
Jockey, I like your analysis here.  I happen to catch an interview with Rick Barry recently.  He talked about how much different he would have been as a player in this era.  He pointed out that it's not that his game in the 70's would or wouldn't have translated today, it's that he would literally be a completely different player.  The weight and aerobic training, the amount of practice of 3pt shots, the rules to a degree, the comforts off the court, the outside attack vs post play, etc, etc.  He said he wouldn't be a little better, he'd be way, way,  better.  I have to think he's right.


It's very Rick Barry to say that Rick Barry would be a much better player today than he actually was.

But of course we don't know that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 01:15:20 PM
Not when it comes to judging the quality of the player.  They are always judged vis-a-vis who is around them.

So if Jordan joined the Pistons in the late 80's,  or Thomas joined the Celtics or Lakers in 1985,  their championships would essentially mean the same thing assuming they would have won on those teans?  And are Nowitzki and Wade better than a lot of these guys that we've listed because they won titles with much less around them?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 01:25:17 PM
I'm not talking about "their championships meaning the same thing."  I am talking about using the fact that he joined the Warriors as a reason to downgrade Durant v. Bird.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 01:29:56 PM
I'm not talking about "their championships meaning the same thing."  I am talking about using the fact that he joined the Warriors as a reason to downgrade Durant v. Bird.

He joined a team that won a title and 73 games the following year.  They probably had the most wins over two years in history.  Bird took a 20's win team to 61 wins his rookie season.  You don't think this is worth pointing out Fluffy?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 01:45:28 PM
He joined a team that won a title and 73 games the following year.  They probably had the most wins over two years in history.  Bird took a 20's win team to 61 wins his rookie season.  You don't think this is worth pointing out Fluffy?


I think the are facts unrelated at all to one another.  Yes, Larry Bird joined a Celtics team and was the top player on a team that had a massive turnaround. Of course, you should read up a little on the Celtics' team from the year prior to see why they were such a disaster.  (The owner making trades behind Auerbach's back...Bob McAdoo injured...)

But Durant joining the Warriors has nothing to do with that.  Durant entered the league as a 19 year old, helped to build the Thunder, left (as he had a right to do and something that Bird talked about doing) as an established super start.

It's an irrelevant cherry picking of facts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 02:04:59 PM

It's very Rick Barry to say that Rick Barry would be a much better player today than he actually was.

But of course we don't know that.


I agree. Barry would win numerous scoring titles today with the 3 point shot. But there is no evidence he would be a better player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on June 20, 2022, 02:05:56 PM

It's very Rick Barry to say that Rick Barry would be a much better player today than he actually was.

But of course we don't know that.
Barry and the words Arrogant and cocky were often in the same sentence with some expletives

I think his basic premise that skills development  and the game has changed are true . I am not sure he would be better though as he was already one of the two best small forward of his Era along with Dr J
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 02:11:58 PM
I like this list . In my experience Jerry West was a game Changing force on the court and a top 5 level player .
 Had a huge competitive desire,tough as nails, incredible athleticism could jump to the moon and had very broad shoulders with long arms ,   was excellent on offense and defense and incredible basketball knowledge . His name was Mr Clutch for a reason.

I completely understand why some have him as a top 10 player. He was arguably as important to some of those Lakers teams as Steph is for GS.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 20, 2022, 02:17:08 PM
Bird's stats are crazy though.  He was clearly a very good rebounder and passer.

Hell yes he was. And even after his back started giving out he averaged 24, 19, and 20 ppg. He also averaged, for his career, 1.9 threes attempted per game.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 03:06:43 PM
I completely understand why some have him as a top 10 player. He was arguably as important to some of those Lakers teams as Steph is for GS.

West and Baylor are probably overlooked because they have 1 title between them.  Well before my time but West had always stated Baylor was better than him.  Speaking of insane stats.  He also was the original athletic wing player.  The other thing that's tough is back in the 60's the Celtics were just better than everyone. 5 Hall of Famers?  Russell is a really hard one for me.  He's obviously the greatest winner,, leader, and perhaps defender in the history of the game.  He also may be the smartest player ever. Yet the vast majority of hoops aficionados would not slot him ahead of Chamberlain.  It's so tough.  :(
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 03:08:41 PM

I agree. Barry would win numerous scoring titles today with the 3 point shot. But there is no evidence he would be a better player.

He's certainly arrogant but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong.  He was still a heck of a player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 03:16:24 PM
How good was Moses?  Seems underrated to me. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 03:26:23 PM
How good was Moses?  Seems underrated to me. 

He was very good.  But since he signed with the Sixers to get his ring, his career should be downgraded.   ;)

But in all seriousness, he was Kareem's top contemporary in the late 70s / early 80s who just didn't have the team around him in Houston.  I mean, he dragged the Rockets to the Finals in 1981 by dominating Kareem in the first round.

When he signed in Philly, it was a HUGE deal.  Everyone knew they were the team to beat.

(https://fastphillysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/moses-si.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 20, 2022, 03:30:24 PM
He was very good.  But since he signed with the Sixers to get his ring, his career should be downgraded.   ;)

But in all seriousness, he was Kareem's top contemporary in the late 70s / early 80s who just didn't have the team around him in Houston.  I mean, he dragged the Rockets to the Finals in 1981 by dominating Kareem in the first round.

When he signed in Philly, it was a HUGE deal.  Everyone knew they were the team to beat.

(https://fastphillysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/moses-si.jpeg)

Someone needs to do a "Where are they now?" retrospective on that kid starting into the camera from between Malone's legs.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 20, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
How good was Moses?  Seems underrated to me.

Fluff is right. He was really good - definitely a top 20 all-time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 20, 2022, 03:39:23 PM
Someone needs to do a "Where are they now?" retrospective on that kid starting into the camera from between Malone's legs.

I think they superimposed him over a crowd shot so the guy wasn't literally looking through his legs!

But I swear I once saw a "where are they now" about the dude with the painter's cap on the right and he was about as Philly as you can get.  This was probably 15-20 years ago.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on June 20, 2022, 06:01:10 PM
How good was Moses?  Seems underrated to me.
Elvin Hayes in the forgotten group as well
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 06:19:33 PM
Moses was much skinnier in his early years.  He clearly was a prime-time problem on the glass.  I would slot him on my all-time cool team and probably top 20 ever if you look at his resume. May he rest in peace. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 08:12:40 PM
Top 5 picks NBA draft?  The consensus seens to be Smith #1.  I have some concerns about Holmgren.  The two guys that I think have great pro potential are Banchero and Ivey.  Better pro Murray or Johnny Davis?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2022, 08:14:20 PM
Top 5 picks NBA draft?  The consensus seens to be Smith #1.  I have some concerns about Holmgren.  The two guys that I think have great pro potential are Banchero and Ivey.  Better pro Murray or Johnny Davis?

Murray
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 08:20:54 PM
Murray

Would you take Holmgren number 2?  Ahead of Banchero and Ivey?  Maybe the potential is there but I think he could be two years away. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2022, 08:30:22 PM
Would you take Holmgren number 2?  Ahead of Banchero and Ivey?  Maybe the potential is there but I think he could be two years away.

I’d take Holmgren 1.  I like Banchero as the safest bet but who knows.  A lot will depend on fit and organizational competence
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 08:46:24 PM
I’d take Holmgren 1.  I like Banchero as the safest bet but who knows.  A lot will depend on fit and organizational competence

Ivey is a burner and my fav player in the draft.  He has that 6th gear.  The thing about taking Holmgren  1 is that there are no guarantees he will re-sign for his 2nd contract. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 20, 2022, 08:54:22 PM
Ivey is a burner and my fav player in the draft.  He has that 6th gear.  The thing about taking Holmgren  1 is that there are no guarantees he will re-sign for his 2nd contract.

I mean, there aren’t any guarantees anyone signs a 2nd contract
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on June 20, 2022, 08:55:39 PM
Ivey is a burner and my fav player in the draft.  He has that 6th gear.  The thing about taking Holmgren  1 is that there are no guarantees he will re-sign for his 2nd contract.

You must of watched some select games.

He settled a lot at times rather than relentlessly attack. And his D was borderline sad most of the year.

Hes a very high upside lottery pick. But I didnt see any special gear on Ivey that the rest fail to have.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 08:56:18 PM
I mean, there aren’t any guarantees anyone signs a 2nd contract

True, but I think he's two years away. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2022, 11:02:20 PM
Top 5 picks NBA draft?  The consensus seens to be Smith #1.  I have some concerns about Holmgren.  The two guys that I think have great pro potential are Banchero and Ivey.  Better pro Murray or Johnny Davis?

Murray is 6'8/6'9, shoots 40% from deep, and has a really varied offensive game.  Also has a huge wingspan and a big vertical

Davis is 6'5, not a great shooter from deep, and his combine athletic stats kind of stunk.  I think he had like a 23' vertical.

Regardless of Davis being a Badger, Murray is a huge upside prospect and Davis is just kind of a safe pick.  I think he can be a decent rotation guy but won't be a star.  Or he ends up like Dekker.  He's a fantastic college player, just not entirely sold on him as an NBA guy.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 20, 2022, 11:12:59 PM
You must of watched some select games.

He settled a lot at times rather than relentlessly attack. And his D was borderline sad most of the year.

Hes a very high upside lottery pick. But I didnt see any special gear on Ivey that the rest fail to have.

I guess that's fair, I only saw him four times.  I'm not saying he's Morant, Iverson, or Wade but I do think he has solid blow-by speed. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 20, 2022, 11:38:44 PM
I would have Curry ahead of both of them.  Let's just start with the fact and reiterate that he just won a title, at 34, with Andrew Wiggins as his #2.  Now when it comes to the top 10 it's extremely difficult because eras are impossible to compare, guys train much differently, and the game has changed a lot.  For example I don't look at Wilt, Shaq, Jabbar, Duncan, or Russell as players that can't be high on the list.  I also believe it's important to recognize that that there were far fewer teams in the past and that an argument can be made that the competition was better on a regular basis, not worse.

The bottom line is it's very difficult to rank players because the post game really doesn't exist anymore and bigs in particular didn't handle the ball and play on the perimeter like they do today.  At the same time that doesn't mean people would rate Jabbar or Duncan behind Anthony Davis and Tatum.  At least not right now. 

But since it's fun to rank and discuss I will share my top 10 and where I would slot Curry.  I can't put him ahead of Jordan, Jabbar, or James and I would imagine most would echo this sentiment.  After that is where it gets tough.  You have the Magic, Bird, Wilt tier.....is Curry realistically in their class or better?  Wilt changed the game and statistically was unmatched.  Magic and Bird also changed the game but had much shorter careers than Curry.   And guess what?  Curry isn't done.  He may get a 5th ring and three as the #1 option.  As for Wilt?  Yes, he only has two rings but he played against a Celtics team with much greater overall talent. 

Anyway, here is my top 10:

10) Russell
9)  Shaq
8) Duncan
7) Bird
6) Magic
5) Chamberlain
4) Curry
3) James
2) Jabbar
1) Jordan

* Statistically is very difficult not to have Robertson in the Top 10

** Olajuwon, Kobe, and Durant were hard to leave off.

*** Giannis and Doncic could one day be considered

**** Curry trails only one player as the best pound for pound of all-time and can't catch him because he's a foot taller.  :)

Thanks for the response, Muggs.

I agree that what Curry accomplished this season was special, yet another great achievement in a great career.

I like your list because you're being honest and taking a swing at a very difficult thing to do, as you mentioned in your post.

For me, the only player on your list I'd put Curry ahead of is Shaq, and even him I'm not certain about. But I don't claim to know I'm "right." There's no way to prove any of this.

I could nitpick about other things but that's kinda the whole idea of these conversation-starter kinds of things. It's why people love lists and rankings (or love to hate lists and rankings).

I also agree with 9-9-9 that West is underrated ... but everybody can't be in the top 10.

My top three would be Michael, LeBron and Magic, but I wouldn't be the least bit bothered by anybody who thinks Kareem, Russell and/or Wilt should be in there, too.

I also tend to agree with what Barry is saying -- not only about himself but applying it to many others. I think if the most driven of the 60s, 70s and 80s era players were competing today, they would have trained to be bigger, stronger and more agile. And in the case of the non-centers, they'd have focused a lot more on 3-point shooting.

But of course we don't know that.

Of course. We don't "know" lots of things on this subject (and many others). It's literally impossible to "know" how Rick Barry or Larry Bird or Moses Malone would do today. But these are fun conversations that let us speculate a lot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 05:26:43 AM
Thanks for the response, Muggs.

I agree that what Curry accomplished this season was special, yet another great achievement in a great career.

I like your list because you're being honest and taking a swing at a very difficult thing to do, as you mentioned in your post.

For me, the only player on your list I'd put Curry ahead of is Shaq, and even him I'm not certain about. But I don't claim to know I'm "right." There's no way to prove any of this.

I could nitpick about other things but that's kinda the whole idea of these conversation-starter kinds of things. It's why people love lists and rankings (or love to hate lists and rankings).

I also agree with 9-9-9 that West is underrated ... but everybody can't be in the top 10.

My top three would be Michael, LeBron and Magic, but I wouldn't be the least bit bothered by anybody who thinks Kareem, Russell and/or Wilt should be in there, too.

I also tend to agree with what Barry is saying -- not only about himself but applying it to many others. I think if the most driven of the 60s, 70s and 80s era players were competing today, they would have trained to be bigger, stronger and more agile. And in the case of the non-centers, they'd have focused a lot more on 3-point shooting.

Of course. We don't "know" lots of things on this subject (and many others). It's literally impossible to "know" how Rick Barry or Larry Bird or Moses Malone would do today. But these are fun conversations that let us speculate a lot.

Curry's size and defensive liabilities are the biggest reason I can see leaving him outside (no pun intended) the top 10..  But I also think you can make an argument that offensively, because of the way the game is played today, he's as impactful as any player on this list with the exception of Jordan.  And what makes him most unique among this particular group is he can score with the ball going 94 feet, off the dribble as well in the half-court, and off the ball running all day around screens.

His endurance is remarkable and he also changes the geometry of the floor unlike these other guys.  Because of his presence guys get much easier opportunities.  No one can score on this list with the variety of shots or spots on the court like Curry.  And he also has that sweet tommy-gun release and "you must be joking" range combined with a myriad of floaters.  He's the most skilled overall offensive player I've ever seen and this "best shooter" narrative is frankly underselling his greatness.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on June 21, 2022, 09:09:38 AM
I don't love Ivey or Davis as pros, especially Davis. He strikes me as a guy who projects as a volume scorer on a second unit or starter on a crappy team.  If I were in that mid-late lottery range, I'd take Sharpe, Murray, and Mathurin ahead of either of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 09:21:49 AM
Very sad news.  Caleb Swanigan dead at 25 yrs old. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 21, 2022, 09:41:13 AM
Very sad news.  Caleb Swanigan dead at 25 yrs old.

Natural causes at 25 is pretty uncommon. Not impossible he could've had a stroke, undiagnosed heart condition, or other condition, but definitely something you don't see every day in a highly trained athlete, even near seven-footers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2022, 09:42:15 AM
Natural causes at 25 is pretty uncommon. Not impossible he could've had a stroke, undiagnosed heart condition, or other condition, but definitely something you don't see every day in a highly trained athlete, even near seven-footers.

Yea it was surprising and sad to hear that as a cause.  He has had weight issues in the past, wonder if he ballooned since leaving the Blazers?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2022, 09:48:45 AM
Yea it was surprising and sad to hear that as a cause.  He has had weight issues in the past, wonder if he ballooned since leaving the Blazers?

He had.  There are some photos circulating of him.  May have been other issues at play as well
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 21, 2022, 09:49:44 AM
Curry's size and defensive liabilities are the biggest reason I can see leaving him outside (no pun intended) the top 10..  But I also think you can make an argument that offensively, because of the way the game is played today, he's as impactful as any player on this list with the exception of Jordan.  And what makes him most unique among this particular group is he can score with the ball going 94 feet, off the dribble as well in the half-court, and off the ball running all day around screens.

His endurance is remarkable and he also changes the geometry of the floor unlike these other guys.  Because of his presence guys get much easier opportunities.  No one can score on this list with the variety of shots or spots on the court like Curry.  And he also has that sweet tommy-gun release and "you must be joking" range combined with a myriad of floaters.  He's the most skilled overall offensive player I've ever seen and this "best shooter" narrative is frankly underselling his greatness.

All reasonable. Of course, anybody can make a case for any of the 10-15 best players ever that they belong among the top few.

For example ...

Wilt changed the game. Endurance? He once averaged MORE than 48 minutes per game and averaged 46 mpg for his career. He never averaged fewer than 42 mpg, and he only had one season in which an injury caused him to miss multiple games.

He also averaged more than 50 ppg one season, which is effen insane. His averaged 23 rebounds per game. He (and Russell) had more blocked shots than any of the alleged record-holders but unfortunately that wasn't an official stat when he played. During the 1966-67 and 1967-68 seasons he averaged 8 assists per game. He was practically track-star fast and he could soar. He couldn't shoot beyond 3 feet, but otherwise had no flaws.

A case could be made that he impacted the game more than any player ever and that he had more individual success within his own era than any player ever.

Then again, despite all that talent, he could only lead his teams to 2 NBA titles. Russell averaged more rebounds, probably more blocks, and was the unquestioned leader of a team that won 11 NBA titles, including 2 when he was the player/coach. For many of those championships, his Celtics beat Wilt's team. And what's more important than how a player influences his team's ability to win titles?

We could do this all day. Curry's one of the greatest players ever. I'd think he'd be pretty proud and satisfied with that statement.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 21, 2022, 10:41:51 AM
Natural causes at 25 is pretty uncommon. Not impossible he could've had a stroke, undiagnosed heart condition, or other condition, but definitely something you don't see every day in a highly trained athlete, even near seven-footers.

I’m as close to 6’7” as Caleb was to 7’   :)  but your point is well taken.

Very sad news.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 01:47:31 PM
The more I hear about Keegan Murray the more I'm thinking he will be a much better player than Davis.  He may be the best player in this draft right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 21, 2022, 02:07:20 PM
The more I hear about Keegan Murray the more I'm thinking he will be a much better player than Davis.  He may be the best player in this draft right now.

No. He should go 5-6 which is where he belongs. Will be a solid NBA player for a long time - maybe a comparable career to a guy like Al Horford.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 02:12:01 PM
No. He should go 5-6 which is where he belongs. Will be a solid NBA player for a long time - maybe a comparable career to a guy like Al Horford.

He's really smooth Jockey.  And can play multiple positions.  I think he could be sort of like Mikail Bridges defensively. He also by all accounts is a tremendous young man off the floor.  I'm not saying he has the highest upside in the draft but I think he's ready to play now.  Holmgren clearly has the most upside but imo he's the greatest risk.  I have really no idea what to make of Smith because I probably saw him twice. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2022, 03:11:59 PM
He's really smooth Jockey.  And can play multiple positions.  I think he could be sort of like Mikail Bridges defensively. He also by all accounts is a tremendous young man off the floor.  I'm not saying he has the highest upside in the draft but I think he's ready to play now.  Holmgren clearly has the most upside but imo he's the greatest risk.  I have really no idea what to make of Smith because I probably saw him twice.

Love the enthusiasm but maybe don't project someone as the best player in the draft, citing their off the court character, quickly followed by admitting you've barely seen the top prospect in the draft.

Murray is very good, way better prospect than Davis, but he has some finishing to do, isn't a passable NBA defender at this point.  And he's still barely removed from a average at best freshman after not being a highly touted recruit.  For comparison, another non highly touted recruit who blew up and left after his sophomore season, Ja Morant, averaged 13/6/6 and was first team OVC as a freshman.  His ceiling is very high, but he's still fairly unproven.

Jabari Smith is everything you want in a #1 on paper.  Highly touted recruit who came in and was a stud for a top 5 team.  Shoots incredibly well from deep, manages his size well, and he's the son of an NBA veteran who can aid in guidance.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 04:44:15 PM
Who are the Bucks targeting?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2022, 04:49:59 PM
Who are the Bucks targeting?

Joey Hauser
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 04:55:13 PM
Joey Hauser

LOL.

They could use a back-up PG and Allen was brutal vs Boston.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2022, 04:56:41 PM
LOL.

They could use a back-up PG and Allen was brutal vs Boston.

Whoever they draft will almost certainly make little to no impact
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 04:58:57 PM
Whoever they draft will almost certainly make little to no impact

Probably but occasionally you can find an immediate impact guy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 21, 2022, 05:41:10 PM
Who are the Bucks targeting?

I would hope Liddell if he’s available- otherwise see Rico’s comment.

I don’t wanna see some 19 year old project.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 21, 2022, 06:46:16 PM
So, you're rulin' out Baldwin. How 'bout Kessler or Jovic, hey?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2022, 07:15:14 PM
I would hope Liddell if he’s available- otherwise see Rico’s comment.

I don’t wanna see some 19 year old project.

Actually, thats exactly who the Bucks should be looking at.  They need an impact vet contributor in the offseason, but going into 23-23, Portis, Lopez, Connaughton, and Hill all come off the books.  If they can get a decent young prospect (not another DJ Wilson), they can bring him along slower and have him be ready to contribute without the cap hit of a veteran.  Thats what the Warriors did with Jordan Poole.  Hell, they had 2 top 15 picks playing spot minutes this year, not including Wiseman.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 21, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Actually, thats exactly who the Bucks should be looking at.  They need an impact vet contributor in the offseason, but going into 23-23, Portis, Lopez, Connaughton, and Hill all come off the books.  If they can get a decent young prospect (not another DJ Wilson), they can bring him along slower and have him be ready to contribute without the cap hit of a veteran.  Thats what the Warriors did with Jordan Poole.  Hell, they had 2 top 15 picks playing spot minutes this year, not including Wiseman.

That might be a good strategy for some teams ands has been successful for some, as well.

But as long as Bud is coach, it's a bad idea for milwaukee. He likes vets and does not have a history of developing players.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2022, 08:50:39 PM
That might be a good strategy for some teams ands has been successful for some, as well.

But as long as Bud is coach, it's a bad idea for milwaukee. He likes vets and does not have a history of developing players.

Thats fair.  Probably wishful thinking with Bud
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 09:00:08 PM
Kyrie to the Bucks? 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 21, 2022, 09:05:23 PM
Kyrie to the Bucks?

Says who? And for what?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 09:11:06 PM
Says who? And for what?

t read a few silly rumors.  I think it would be insane to offer either Holiday or Middleton for him.  You can't trust that guy.  Apparently in 2017 the Bucks offered Brogdan and Middleton for Kyrie. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 21, 2022, 09:21:08 PM
t read a few silly rumors.  I think it would be insane to offer either Holiday or Middleton for him.  You can't trust that guy.  Apparently in 2017 the Bucks offered Brogdan and Middleton for Kyrie.

It would be absurd. The Bucks would’ve repeated had Middleton stayed healthy. Stay the course, add a solid offensive wing or backup point guard with the MLE, and rely on the best player in the world putting you in a spot to win a title again.

Only moves I’d make if I were the Bucks would be if you can package Grayson and 24 (and Hill if needed for salary purposes) to upgrade the starting 2/3. If you can package that for Harrison Barnes I’m all for it. But I see no trades you can make worth giving up Middleton or Jrue.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 09:33:04 PM
It would be absurd. The Bucks would’ve repeated had Middleton stayed healthy. Stay the course, add a solid offensive wing or backup point guard with the MLE, and rely on the best player in the world putting you in a spot to win a title again.

Only moves I’d make if I were the Bucks would be if you can package Grayson and 24 (and Hill if needed for salary purposes) to upgrade the starting 2/3. If you can package that for Harrison Barnes I’m all for it. But I see no trades you can make worth giving up Middleton or Jrue.

The Bucks may have won with Middleton but their outside shooting seemed inconsistent to me this year.  Allen was a major disappointment and the Ibaka trade didn't pan out.  The Barnes idea is a good one.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 21, 2022, 09:37:30 PM
It would be absurd. The Bucks would’ve repeated had Middleton stayed healthy. Stay the course, add a solid offensive wing or backup point guard with the MLE, and rely on the best player in the world putting you in a spot to win a title again.

Only moves I’d make if I were the Bucks would be if you can package Grayson and 24 (and Hill if needed for salary purposes) to upgrade the starting 2/3. If you can package that for Harrison Barnes I’m all for it. But I see no trades you can make worth giving up Middleton or Jrue.

Supposedly the Bucks were trying to get Kyrie when he went to the Cs.  Obviously a lot has changed since then.

Would love Harrison Barnes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 21, 2022, 09:42:44 PM
Supposedly the Bucks were trying to get Kyrie when he went to the Cs.  Obviously a lot has changed since then.

Would love Harrison Barnes.

I expect Giannis to have his best season in 22-23.  He could get medieval, I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 07:20:22 PM
Call your shot.  Who will be the best NBA player in this draft?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 22, 2022, 08:05:19 PM
Call your shot.  Who will be the best NBA player in this draft?

Chet Holmgren
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 22, 2022, 08:07:57 PM
Call your shot.  Who will be the best NBA player in this draft?

Ivey. Then Paolo.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 08:09:33 PM
Ivey. Then Paolo.

Ivey has sort of this semi Ja Morant vibe. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2022, 08:13:45 PM
Chet Holmgren

Bingo. He is a unicorn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 08:22:19 PM
Bingo. He is a unicorn.

He has the greatest upside.  But I'm still not completely sold.   Will he gain weight and be able to pick and pop?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 08:23:45 PM
Nobody posts up anymore.   Could be (nothing is guaranteed) the next Giannis.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 08:30:43 PM
Nobody posts up anymore.   Could be (nothing is guaranteed) the next Giannis.
Pop?

Let's get serious Tower.  Perhaps you are trying to amuse me?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 08:34:02 PM
Nothing is guaranteed.   IMO, Homlgren's ceiling is close to Giannis.   Again, IMO, highest ceiling in the draft.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2022, 08:40:43 PM
Nothing is guaranteed.   IMO, Homlgren's ceiling is close to Giannis.   Again, IMO, highest ceiling in the draft.

Giannis was skinny but had a much bigger frame.  I don't see Holmgren being able to put on that much size.  He wont be 195 forever, but I think he's more likely to be built like Durant his whole career than fill out.

I'm still trying to figure out why Holmgren is the unicorn with all the upside and not Jabari Smith.  Smith is 6'11, a better shooter from outside, a more polished scoring game at this point, and is a good defender with potential to be even better.  He's got bounce, not like he's flat footed.  Is 2 inches less of height than Holmgren, and 3 inches of wingspan that massive of a difference?

I think Banchero is the surest shot, his game is completely NBA ready, but Jabari feels like KG 2.0 with a better jumper.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 08:45:25 PM
I hope the GM's agree and he falls to the Pistons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 22, 2022, 08:45:31 PM
Giannis was skinny but had a much bigger frame.  I don't see Holmgren being able to put on that much size.  He wont be 195 forever, but I think he's more likely to be built like Durant his whole career than fill out.

I'm still trying to figure out why Holmgren is the unicorn with all the upside and not Jabari Smith.  Smith is 6'11, a better shooter from outside, a more polished scoring game at this point, and is a good defender with potential to be even better.  He's got bounce, not like he's flat footed.  Is 2 inches less of height than Holmgren, and 3 inches of wingspan that massive of a difference?

I think Banchero is the surest shot, his game is completely NBA ready, but Jabari feels like KG 2.0 with a better jumper.

Yeah I’m picking Banchero or Smith. I actually think their upsides are higher than Holmgren’s.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 08:50:14 PM
Nothing is guaranteed.   IMO, Homlgren's ceiling is close to Giannis.   Again, IMO, highest ceiling in the draft.

Okay....let me gather myself.  I was in the middle of putting together a Greek salad.  You believe Holmgren's ceiling is "close" to Giannis?  Based on what exactly?  Being able to handle the ball is much different than attacking with ruthless force.  Giannis has elite athleticism.  I'm actually curious what he and Hakeem could have done if they had a basketball in their hands as a 6 yr old. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 08:53:30 PM
It is an opinion.  Agree, disagree, no impact.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 08:55:17 PM
It is an opinion.  Agree, disagree, no impact.

It's not an opinion.  It's a blatant attempt to irritate rational people.  :)  That's fine Tower but I don't honestly think you believe this deep down.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on June 22, 2022, 08:56:26 PM
Holmgren is going to be physically overmatched every night for the foreseeable future. Maybe he’ll also create some mismatches on the offensive end but I’m not convinced. Maybe he’ll eventually gain the weight and strength but looking at him I don’t think it’s a sure thing.

I think it’s Ivey/Smith/Banchero in that order.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 08:57:26 PM
I do.  Nothing would make me happier in regards to the NBA draft than him falling to #5.   But Detroit can't get that lucky.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on June 22, 2022, 08:59:56 PM
I do.  Nothing would make me happier in regards to the NBA draft than him falling to #5.   But Detroit can't get that lucky.
Yeah there is no way he’s lasting that long.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 09:00:05 PM
Holmgren is going to be physically overmatched every night for the foreseeable future. Maybe he’ll also create some mismatches on the offensive end but I’m not convinced. Maybe he’ll eventually gain the weight and strength but looking at him I don’t think it’s a sure thing.

I think it’s Ivey/Smith/Banchero in that order.

Murray?  Ivey could be really special if he can find a consistent J  and gain some strength/weight imo.  Tier 1 speed and I think he can play both guard positions.   Elite elevation never hurts too.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Ivey goes at 4.   Detroit gets Murray.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 09:04:58 PM
Mathurin is an interesting prospect.  He could be one of those guys, like Donovan Mitchell, that has a completely different game in the open floor.  He clearly has bounce.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 22, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
Chet struggled with the physicality of Memphis and Alabama in the NCAA Tournament. NBA physicality is a bit of a step up…
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 09:08:50 PM
Will Davis be a stud or a bust?  Surprised most scouts have him ahead of Agbaji.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2022, 10:07:21 PM
Will Davis be a stud or a bust?  Surprised most scouts have him ahead of Agbaji.

Neither, i think he will just be a rotation guy
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 22, 2022, 10:10:30 PM
It's not an opinion.  It's a blatant attempt to irritate rational people.  :)  That's fine Tower but I don't honestly think you believe this deep down.

Holmgren is viewed as having way more upside than Giannis was when he was drafted. That doesn't mean he will come anywhere near Giannis, just that crazier things have happened.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 10:24:52 PM
Holmgren is viewed as having way more upside than Giannis was when he was drafted. That doesn't mean he will come anywhere near Giannis, just that crazier things have happened.

True.  Markelle Fultz and Anthony Bennett were viewed that way as well.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2022, 10:26:21 PM
Okay....let me gather myself.  I was in the middle of putting together a Greek salad.  You believe Holmgren's ceiling is "close" to Giannis?  Based on what exactly?  Being able to handle the ball is much different than attacking with ruthless force.  Giannis has elite athleticism.  I'm actually curious what he and Hakeem could have done if they had a basketball in their hands as a 6 yr old.

I agree with Tower.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2022, 10:27:16 PM
True.  Markelle Fultz and Anthony Bennett were viewed that way as well.

No they weren't. both were in very weak drafts.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2022, 10:30:30 PM
Holmgren is viewed as having way more upside than Giannis was when he was drafted. That doesn't mean he will come anywhere near Giannis, just that crazier things have happened.

I think thats likely the function of one being an unknown from Greece's 2nd/3rd division and the other being the #1 recruit to went to play for one of the most prominent NCAA programs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 10:31:55 PM
No they weren't. both were in very weak drafts.

2013 was a weak draft, 2017 wasn't.  And I thought this was considered a weak draft?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2022, 10:36:58 PM
Giannis was skinny but had a much bigger frame.  I don't see Holmgren being able to put on that much size.  He wont be 195 forever, but I think he's more likely to be built like Durant his whole career than fill out.

I'm still trying to figure out why Holmgren is the unicorn with all the upside and not Jabari Smith.  Smith is 6'11, a better shooter from outside, a more polished scoring game at this point, and is a good defender with potential to be even better.  He's got bounce, not like he's flat footed.  Is 2 inches less of height than Holmgren, and 3 inches of wingspan that massive of a difference?

I think Banchero is the surest shot, his game is completely NBA ready, but Jabari feels like KG 2.0 with a better jumper.

I agree with most of this - Holmgren will probably top out at 220 with his frame. I have no problem with a team picking Smith or Holmgren #1. But there is more than a 2" difference - probably 4-5 inches.

Jabari will end up being a perennial all-star, but I don't think he comes close to being a KG. Garnett is a borderline Top 25 all-time. Holmgren - if he reaches his potential - can be a game-changer.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 22, 2022, 10:40:03 PM
2013 was a weak draft, 2017 wasn't.  And I thought this was considered a weak draft?

take Tatum out of 2017 and it was a brutally bad draft.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
I agree with most of this - Holmgren will probably top out at 220 with his frame. I have no problem with a team picking Smith or Holmgren #1. But there is more than a 2" difference - probably 4-5 inches.

Jabari will end up being a perennial all-star, but I don't think he comes close to being a KG. Garnett is a borderline Top 25 all-time. Holmgren - if he reaches his potential - can be a game-changer.

Are you talking height?  Cause he's all of 6'10.  Chet isn't taller than 7' or they would make a big deal of it.  And his wingspan is listed at 7'2 and Chet is 7'5.

And of course I don't think he'll become KG.  KG was a generational talent who played unlike almost anyone.  But he has that sort of game.  He's a better version of Jaren Jackson Jr

take Tatum out of 2017 and it was a brutally bad draft.

I think thats a bit revisionist.  At the time, the hype over Lonzo was huge.  Then Tatum.  Josh Jackson was one of the highest rated recruit of all time by 24/7 and then had a great year at KU.  Fox had a ton of hype after a great year and lost SEC POY to his own teammate.  Thats a strong top 5.  Plus the deserved buzz around Lauri and Dennis Smith Jr.  The only speculative reaches in the top 10 were Isaac and Zach Collins.  Malik Monk was thought to be an NBA ready sniper too.

The draft class underachieved MIGHTILY. Only a single All Star in the top 12 stinks.  But it wasn't viewed as a weak or bad draft at all at the time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 22, 2022, 11:17:39 PM
take Tatum out of 2017 and it was a brutally bad draft.

Look at the players 10-30.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2022, 06:26:33 AM
He has the greatest upside.  But I'm still not completely sold.   Will he gain weight and be able to pick and pop?

Who's the last NBA prospect that failed because they were too skinny? Too big, unable to control their weight, sure, but I don't remember many guys that were too thin to succeed.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 07:14:34 AM
Who's the last NBA prospect that failed because they were too skinny? Too big, unable to control their weight, sure, but I don't remember many guys that were too thin to succeed.

I can't recall a 7 footer in recent years at 190 lbs but I'm sure I'm missing someone.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 23, 2022, 07:32:21 AM
Who's the last NBA prospect that failed because they were too skinny? Too big, unable to control their weight, sure, but I don't remember many guys that were too thin to succeed.

Shawn Bradley is widely considered a bust.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 23, 2022, 07:37:58 AM
There are plenty of guys who could've been pros if they were stronger/more physical.  Think of how much better Dawson Garcia would've been his freshman year if he was able to finish through any bit of contact.  He'd have been a one and done.  There are those kinds of guys everywhere in college basketball.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 23, 2022, 07:48:28 AM
Thon Maker was 7'0", 210 when he was drafted. He had nowhere near the offensive game that Holmgren has - but that is not where I think Holmgren will struggle.

I think he struggles on the defensive end. Sure he will have his moments, but as with Maker, teams are going to relentlessly attack him to get him off the floor in foul trouble.  You saw a preview of that during the Arkansas game in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2022, 07:55:04 AM
Thon Maker was 7'0", 210 when he was drafted. He had nowhere near the offensive game that Holmgren has - but that is not where I think Holmgren will struggle.

I think he struggles on the defensive end. Sure he will have his moments, but as with Maker, teams are going to relentlessly attack him to get him off the floor in foul trouble.  You saw a preview of that during the Arkansas game in the Sweet 16.

I’ve been told no one plays defense in the NBA unlike the college game, so he should be fine
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 23, 2022, 08:01:23 AM
If you watched the playoffs, you would have seen some of the best help and recover defensive schemes imaginable.   Offensively, they are so good it seems like no one is playing defense.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 23, 2022, 08:09:10 AM
If you watched the playoffs, you would have seen some of the best help and recover defensive schemes imaginable.   Offensively, they are so good it seems like no one is playing defense.

Pretty sure Rico was doing his "teal without teal" schtick.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 08:19:25 AM
Here's my tier 1 of this draft:

1. Paolo Banchero
The best chance to be a number 1 offensive option in this draft.  Elite handles for his size and very good court mapping.  Questions about his defense, but I think he has the tools to be serviceable.  Better than Julius Randle, not as good as Giannis.

2. Chet Holmgren
Elite defensive impact but I only see a complementary scorer.  Great fit for OKC as a pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop threat. Marcus Camby with a jumpshot. Weight is obviously the main concern.

3. Jabari Smith
Elite shooting and above average defender. I'm not convinced he can create his own shot or distribute as well as Banchero.  If that develops, he could be the best player of this draft. But right now I'm getting Rashard Lewis vibes.

4. Jaden Ivey
Elite speed and leaping ability gives him a huge upside, but I think he's farther away than the top 3. Improved 3 point shooting, but still kinda suspect.  No midrange game, weak left hand, and bad defense.  But the athleticism gives him as much upside as anyone in the draft.  As a prospect, I think he's similar to Russell Westbrook coming out of college. Can he improve at the same rate?

Any of these four could wind up the best player in this draft, but they all have pretty significant question marks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2022, 08:23:53 AM
Pretty sure Rico was doing his "teal without teal" schtick.

Sorry, thought this was Buckyville
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 23, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I love Rico.   And I got his joke. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2022, 08:33:33 AM
Shawn Bradley is widely considered a bust.

Bradley definitely didn't live up to his draft position, but I'm not sure being too thin was the reason. He came in 45 pounds heavier than Chet and was able to bulk up. He was just inconsistent.

And if we have to dig back two decades to find one example, that wouldn't be something that gives me pause. The talk around Chet reminds me a lot of the talk around Durant coming out. He was too skinny, he wasn't strong enough (zero reps of 225), he was going to get pushed around, and all he's done since then is win Rookie of the Year, become a perennial All-Star and All-NBA player, and be named to the Top-75 list.

Not saying Chet will be Durant, but dismissing him because of something that at best rarely holds anyone back seems like a mistake. I'm not sure who will end up best, my vote would probably be Chet with Jabari Smith a very close second. I love Chet's unique abilities, but think Smith's skillset is tailored perfectly to today's NBA. Banchero and Ivey should be fine, but I see them as more likely 2nd or 3rd best players on a good team than potential alphas.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 23, 2022, 08:38:19 AM
Here's my tier 1 of this draft:

1. Paolo Banchero
The best chance to be a number 1 offensive option in this draft.  Elite handles for his size and very good court mapping.  Questions about his defense, but I think he has the tools to be serviceable.  Better than Julius Randle, not as good as Giannis.

2. Chet Holmgren
Elite defensive impact but I only see a complementary scorer.  Great fit for OKC as a pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop threat. Marcus Camby with a jumpshot. Weight is obviously the main concern.

3. Jabari Smith
Elite shooting and above average defender. I'm not convinced he can create his own shot or distribute as well as Banchero.  If that develops, he could be the best player of this draft. But right now I'm getting Rashard Lewis vibes.

4. Jaden Ivey
Elite speed and leaping ability gives him a huge upside, but I think he's farther away than the top 3. Improved 3 point shooting, but still kinda suspect.  No midrange game, weak left hand, and bad defense.  But the athleticism gives him as much upside as anyone in the draft.  As a prospect, I think he's similar to Russell Westbrook coming out of college. Can he improve at the same rate?

Any of these four could wind up the best player in this draft, but they all have pretty significant question marks.
Do "experts" think Holmgren is elite defensively?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 23, 2022, 08:40:13 AM
Bradley definitely didn't live up to his draft position, but I'm not sure being too thin was the reason. He came in 45 pounds heavier than Chet and was able to bulk up. He was just inconsistent.

And if we have to dig back two decades to find one example, that wouldn't be something that gives me pause. The talk around Chet reminds me a lot of the talk around Durant coming out. He was too skinny, he wasn't strong enough (zero reps of 225), he was going to get pushed around, and all he's done since then is win Rookie of the Year, become a perennial All-Star and All-NBA player, and be named to the Top-75 list.

Not saying Chet will be Durant, but dismissing him because of something that at best rarely holds anyone back seems like a mistake. I'm not sure who will end up best, my vote would probably be Chet with Jabari Smith a very close second. I love Chet's unique abilities, but think Smith's skillset is tailored perfectly to today's NBA. Banchero and Ivey should be fine, but I see them as more likely 2nd or 3rd best players on a good team than potential alphas.

The difference was Durant's biggest skill was his scoring ability.  Chet's biggest skill is his rim protection and then rebounding and putting it on the floor to initiate the break.  Chet couldn't handle the physicality of Memphis and Alabama.  Both teams took away his rim protection by going right into his body, putting him under the rim, and finishing through weak contact.  That's a problem.  Nobody was ever able to take away Kevin Durant's ability to get to his spots and score in college because he wasn't strong enough.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2022, 09:13:17 AM
The difference was Durant's biggest skill was his scoring ability.  Chet's biggest skill is his rim protection and then rebounding and putting it on the floor to initiate the break.  Chet couldn't handle the physicality of Memphis and Alabama.  Both teams took away his rim protection by going right into his body, putting him under the rim, and finishing through weak contact.  That's a problem.  Nobody was ever able to take away Kevin Durant's ability to get to his spots and score in college because he wasn't strong enough.

Sure, but if we're going to look specifically at rim protection, that wasn't a problem for the aforementioned Bradley. It remained a strength in the NBA. He did lead the league in blocks once and holds the single-season blocks record for both the 76ers and Mavericks (actually all of the top-5 Mavs single seasons).

His rebounding and block numbers were also still high in both of the games you mention and his Tier A+B rebounding and block numbers are right on track with his overall numbers, so it's not like he wilted in the face of tough opposition. Will he have to add strength to not be bullied by the Embiid/Giannis/Jokic types? Sure. But that's the case for literally everyone entering the NBA, and some players who have already been in that league for years.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 09:23:24 AM
Holmgren has a lot of skills, there's no question about that.  But does he do anything exceptionally well?  I think the NBA gane is so different but do we expect him to be able to score in isolation or down on the block?  Is he sort of in the Anthony Davis mold?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 23, 2022, 09:27:46 AM
Bradley definitely didn't live up to his draft position, but I'm not sure being too thin was the reason. He came in 45 pounds heavier than Chet and was able to bulk up. He was just inconsistent.

And if we have to dig back two decades to find one example, that wouldn't be something that gives me pause. The talk around Chet reminds me a lot of the talk around Durant coming out. He was too skinny, he wasn't strong enough (zero reps of 225), he was going to get pushed around, and all he's done since then is win Rookie of the Year, become a perennial All-Star and All-NBA player, and be named to the Top-75 list.

Not saying Chet will be Durant, but dismissing him because of something that at best rarely holds anyone back seems like a mistake. I'm not sure who will end up best, my vote would probably be Chet with Jabari Smith a very close second. I love Chet's unique abilities, but think Smith's skillset is tailored perfectly to today's NBA. Banchero and Ivey should be fine, but I see them as more likely 2nd or 3rd best players on a good team than potential alphas.

Chet is also 6 inches shorter than Shawn.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 23, 2022, 09:30:50 AM
Sure, but if we're going to look specifically at rim protection, that wasn't a problem for the aforementioned Bradley. It remained a strength in the NBA. He did lead the league in blocks once and holds the single-season blocks record for both the 76ers and Mavericks (actually all of the top-5 Mavs single seasons).

His rebounding and block numbers were also still high in both of the games you mention and his Tier A+B rebounding and block numbers are right on track with his overall numbers, so it's not like he wilted in the face of tough opposition. Will he have to add strength to not be bullied by the Embiid/Giannis/Jokic types? Sure. But that's the case for literally everyone entering the NBA, and some players who have already been in that league for years.

The most important thing is how Shawn Bradley has completely changed the fate of western civilization.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2022, 09:38:28 AM
Holmgren has a lot of skills, there's no question about that.  But does he do anything exceptionally well?  I think the NBA gane is so different but do we expect him to be able to score in isolation or down on the block?  Is he sort of in the Anthony Davis mold?

He has phenomenal timing and length for shot-blocking, he shot 39% from three and his size makes contesting those shots difficult, and he's an exceptional rebounder. The thing I keep coming back to is there were a few times during the season when you would hear "Chet Holmgren became the first player to ever do X." When someone has the ability to produce in ways no one ever has before, it seems worth paying attention to. Guys like Durant, Doncic, or Trae Young that put up silly numbers that verge on unprecedented often seem to do well even when there are detractors (Durant's frame, Doncic's competition level, Young's size/athleticism) when they are in the predraft process. And the reason he's considered a unicorn is because his mold is different than anyone we've seen before.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2022, 09:48:18 AM
Here's my tier 1 of this draft:

1. Paolo Banchero
The best chance to be a number 1 offensive option in this draft.  Elite handles for his size and very good court mapping.  Questions about his defense, but I think he has the tools to be serviceable.  Better than Julius Randle, not as good as Giannis.

2. Chet Holmgren
Elite defensive impact but I only see a complementary scorer.  Great fit for OKC as a pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop threat. Marcus Camby with a jumpshot. Weight is obviously the main concern.

3. Jabari Smith
Elite shooting and above average defender. I'm not convinced he can create his own shot or distribute as well as Banchero.  If that develops, he could be the best player of this draft. But right now I'm getting Rashard Lewis vibes.

4. Jaden Ivey
Elite speed and leaping ability gives him a huge upside, but I think he's farther away than the top 3. Improved 3 point shooting, but still kinda suspect.  No midrange game, weak left hand, and bad defense.  But the athleticism gives him as much upside as anyone in the draft.  As a prospect, I think he's similar to Russell Westbrook coming out of college. Can he improve at the same rate?

Any of these four could wind up the best player in this draft, but they all have pretty significant question marks.

I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 23, 2022, 09:49:39 AM
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Holmgren will be a bust at all.  I just think I would rather go with Smith or Banchero.

Time may prove the wrong - as it often does.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2022, 09:52:21 AM
I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.

Banchero reminds me a lot of Glenn Robinson, not in terms of his game, but in that I think he will be a very useful, productive player for a long time but probably never hit superstar status.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2022, 10:02:23 AM
Sure, but if we're going to look specifically at rim protection, that wasn't a problem for the aforementioned Bradley. It remained a strength in the NBA. He did lead the league in blocks once and holds the single-season blocks record for both the 76ers and Mavericks (actually all of the top-5 Mavs single seasons).

His rebounding and block numbers were also still high in both of the games you mention and his Tier A+B rebounding and block numbers are right on track with his overall numbers, so it's not like he wilted in the face of tough opposition. Will he have to add strength to not be bullied by the Embiid/Giannis/Jokic types? Sure. But that's the case for literally everyone entering the NBA, and some players who have already been in that league for years.

Compare Chet to Rudy Gobert.  Gobert is a bit taller, has a longer wingspan by 3-4 inches...and 50 lbs
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:15:23 AM
Banchero reminds me a lot of Glenn Robinson, not in terms of his game, but in that I think he will be a very useful, productive player for a long time but probably never hit superstar status.

Possibly, but I feel similarly about Chet and Jabari.  Good to very good players but not superstars.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:24:26 AM
I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.

I disagree that Smith and Holmgren have higher ceilings.  I think all three have comparable ceilings.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2022, 01:10:57 PM
The most important thing is how Shawn Bradley has completely changed the fate of western civilization.

The Bradley comparisons are lazy (not saying you made them).

Similaries:
1. Tall
2. White
3. Shot blocker

That's it. Bradley couldn't:
1. Handle the ball
2. Shoot
3. Pass
4. Run the floor

And the one real basketball skill of Bradley - blocking shots - will be surpassed by Holmgren.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 23, 2022, 01:13:09 PM
Who's the last NBA prospect that failed because they were too skinny? Too big, unable to control their weight, sure, but I don't remember many guys that were too thin to succeed.

I will never forget Tito Horford's selection by the Bucks.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 23, 2022, 01:18:16 PM
The Bradley comparisons are lazy (not saying you made them).
And the one real basketball skill of Bradley - blocking shots - will be surpassed by Holmgren.
Bookmark this. Shawn Bradley is #15 all time in blocked shots.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2022, 01:43:27 PM
Similaries:
1. Tall
2. White
3. Shot blocker

That's it. Bradley couldn't:
1. Handle the ball
2. Shoot
3. Pass
4. Run the floor


I agree with this based on what we know today. But when Bradley was being touted for the 1993 draft, there were stories aplenty about him being about to hit outside shots and dribble behind the back. He was considered a great athlete for his size, as this pre-draft article points out:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1993/06/25/a-tall-order-for-the-nba/f1941ee5-dce0-4b5f-a593-2fcd3d99bdc2/

Now 7 feet 6, he competitively ran the 400 and 800 meters and played quarterback and wide receiver when he was 6-4 to 6-8 in junior high. He batted .407 as a 7-5 pitcher/first baseman during his junior year at Emery High School in his hometown of Castle Dale, Utah, a ranching and coal mining town, where Bradley grew up on a farm. His closest neighbors, an aunt and uncle, lived a mile away.

He shot a 42 for nine holes as a 7-6 golfer his senior year in high school. For fun these days, he water skis. "It's quite a sight to see Shawn on a single slalom ski," his father, Reiner, said.


Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 05:13:44 PM
I could be off about Holmgren.  A lot of people think he's a generational talent abd love the guy. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 23, 2022, 05:47:38 PM
It is an opinion, Muggsy.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 23, 2022, 06:41:00 PM
Banchero refused to work out with the Magic. It’s gonna be Jabari #1
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Jockey on June 23, 2022, 06:43:32 PM
Banchero refused to work out with the Magic. It’s gonna be Jabari #1

That's what most experts have been saying for months.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2022, 06:53:20 PM
That's what most experts have been saying for months.

Woj says not so fast
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 06:57:28 PM
Is Banchero auditioning as the Riddler in a new Batman flick?  WTF?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 23, 2022, 07:08:23 PM
If it’s Banchero, Woj botched this one from the start.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 07:11:21 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 07:16:38 PM
Congrats to all of the bettors who bet Paolo #1 before the line moved.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 07:17:53 PM
Now the question is:

Will Banchero be traded to Houston after the Rockets pick at 3?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 07:27:01 PM
Don't ever forger Bilas in 2003, in his "Bilas' Best" rated Kirk Hinrich ahead of Dwyane Wade.   

OOOOOOOOOOPS.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2022, 07:27:34 PM
Congrats to all of the bettors who bet Paolo #1 before the line moved.

That line movement last night was remarkable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 07:28:46 PM
Murray seems like a solid dude.  Sad he's going to a dumpster fire of an organization.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 23, 2022, 07:30:02 PM
Lol. ESPN sounds surprised that Keegan Murray actually grew up in Iowa.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2022, 07:30:33 PM
Lol. ESPN sounds surprised that Keegan Murray actually grew up in Iowa.

He’d have been off my draft board for that reason alone
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2022, 07:36:19 PM
Pistons have been a mess, but Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivy, Killian Hayes, and Saddiq Bey is a lot of intriguing young talent.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 23, 2022, 07:37:28 PM
Pistons have been a mess, but Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivy, Killian Hayes, and Saddiq Bey is a lot of intriguing young talent.

I’d buy stock
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 07:38:28 PM
Pistons have been a mess, but Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivy, Killian Hayes, and Saddiq Bey is a lot of intriguing young talent.

Yes.  Bey has been impressive.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 08:39:52 PM
Jalen Duren was on three different teams in the last 10 minutes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 08:44:22 PM
interesting that Pop passed on Johnny Davis.  I wonder why Adbagi fell a bit?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Pakuni on June 23, 2022, 09:12:28 PM
Pistons have been a mess, but Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivy, Killian Hayes, and Saddiq Bey is a lot of intriguing young talent.

Bunch of guys who can't shoot, though. Which doesn't play well in the current iteration of the NBA.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2022, 09:18:49 PM
Lol. ESPN sounds surprised that Keegan Murray actually grew up in Iowa.

notable Kings draft picks:

2018 - Marvin Bagley, 2nd overall
2012- Thomas Robertson, 5th overall
2011 - Jimmer Fredette, 10th overall

The pick  immediately following:
Luka Doncic
Damien Lillard
Klay Thompson

Pistons fans are feeling good tonight!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 23, 2022, 09:20:58 PM
Would not be sad  at all if the Bucks got Liddell
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 09:22:01 PM
Would not be sad  at all if the Bucks got Liddell

I assume that's who they'll take. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 23, 2022, 09:24:07 PM
Awful.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 09:25:53 PM
Who?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 23, 2022, 09:30:28 PM
Not the pick I would have made.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 23, 2022, 09:44:04 PM
I am fine with it. Wouldn’t have been my pick but you can do worse than a long, hand working, versatile defender.

Hope he finds some consistency in his shot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 23, 2022, 09:47:52 PM
I stopped criticizing picks after I asked who the heck this Giannis guy was. I thought Liddell was a guy they were thinking about trading up for.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2022, 09:49:49 PM
Baldwin, Jr to Golden State. Not bad for the kid.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 23, 2022, 09:51:20 PM
Golden State loves the Milwaukee connection.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 10:12:12 PM
Pretty sure Wojo offered MarJon Beauchamp back in the day.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 10:13:13 PM
Pretty sure Wojo offered MarJon Beauchamp back in the day.

Is that a concern?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 10:17:59 PM
Koloko is a solid 2nd rd pick
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 10:29:47 PM
Is that a concern?

No, just an interesting anecdote.  If Beauchamp can develop his 3 point shot, he will be a nice player.

Strong defender, good cutter, and solid passer.  A chance to be a nice rotation piece, if he can make 3s.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 10:32:56 PM
Hopefully JLew goes in the 40's. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2022, 10:33:41 PM
Golden State loves the Milwaukee connection.

3 MKE area HS guys, plus Juan (though hes probably not coming back)...pretty incredible
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Herman Cain on June 23, 2022, 10:42:21 PM
Hopefully JLew goes in the 40's.
He is now down to 7th best available on ESPN so it could happen soon
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 10:59:45 PM
Justin got bad advice.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2022, 11:00:48 PM
It’s getting to the point where it may be better to go undrafted and pick a team, a la Wes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 23, 2022, 11:02:30 PM
Justin is now BPA on ESPN’s TV board.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:04:07 PM
Justin is now BPA on ESPN’s TV board.

Only 10 picks left.  Hopefully he's one of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:08:13 PM
Tyrese Martin first Big East player off the board at 51.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:09:21 PM
At this point, it looks like Justin goes undrafted.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:09:42 PM
Tyrese Martin first Big East player off the board at 51.

Ughhh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:14:11 PM
5 picks to go, still nothing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:16:02 PM
Karlo Matovic???!!  WTF!  I hope Lewis hears his name called
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2022, 11:18:42 PM
It’s getting to the point where it may be better to go undrafted and pick a team, a la Wes.

Wes is the exception.  Its true that a lot more undrafted players make the league these days with the transformation of the G League, but its still always better to be drafted.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:20:00 PM
Bucks buy pick 58 from Pacers.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
Yannick Nzosa!!??  Ughhh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:21:00 PM
Bucks buy pick 58 from Pacers.

Is this going to be for Justin?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:24:55 PM
2 picks left…
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:26:16 PM
Some guy named Gui???  Smh.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2022, 11:26:36 PM
Yannick Nzosa!!??  Ughhh.

Karlo Matovic???!!  WTF!  I hope Lewis hears his name called

Gui Santos.

Guys who will never play in the NBA.

Two excellent BE guys in Lewis and Champagne likely going undrafted
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:27:47 PM
Gui Santos.

Guys who will never play in the NBA.

Two excellent BE guys in Lewis and Champagne likely going undrafted

Exactly.  Are they even real people?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:29:19 PM
Who's that dude at 57???
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:30:03 PM
It’s official, Lewis undrafted.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:30:36 PM
ESPN's 2nd round coverage has honestly been a joke.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:31:30 PM
It’s official, Lewis undrafted.

Sweet Jesus.

Extremely disappointing.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:32:12 PM
No way around it, Justin got really bad advice and took it. You can’t skip out on the combine and then go undrafted, bad look all around.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:35:45 PM
I was honestly fine until the
International players that will never play in the league were drafted.  I can't imagine Lewis is thrilled.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:36:06 PM
No way around it, Justin got really bad advice and took it. You can’t skip out on the combine and then go undrafted, bad look all around.

Especially when players like Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard scrimmage, and get picked 12 and 31.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 23, 2022, 11:36:11 PM
Scotty Pippin, Jr. already signing a two way deal. News for Justin could be coming soon.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:38:29 PM
Who advised Lewis?  I'm just curious.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: BM1090 on June 23, 2022, 11:38:49 PM
Justin signs a 2 way with the Bulls
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: DegenerateDish on June 23, 2022, 11:39:04 PM
Lewis on two way with Bulls.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 23, 2022, 11:39:29 PM
I was honestly fine until the
International players that will never play in the league were drafted.  I can't imagine Lewis is thrilled.

Happens every year. NBA teams just don't have enough roster spots to go around, so they draft and stash foreign players.

If the player develops, it's a bonus.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 23, 2022, 11:41:11 PM
Happens every year. NBA teams just don't have enough roster spots to go around, so they draft and stash foreign players.

If the player develops, it's a bonus.

Ya....I just feel bad for Justin.  He'll get an opportunity but it's a longshot.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2022, 11:45:45 PM
Happens every year. NBA teams just don't have enough roster spots to go around, so they draft and stash foreign players.

If the player develops, it's a bonus.

Good point. The last several Euro players drafted probably will never see a second in the NBA, and for those who do it will be a couple/few years.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 23, 2022, 11:46:47 PM
Lewis will still end up making close to 1/2m next year if he sticks around on the 2-way. Not a bad living if you can get it.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 24, 2022, 05:36:00 AM
No way around it, Justin got really bad advice and took it. You can’t skip out on the combine and then go undrafted, bad look all around.
I'd be curious to hear the backstory on why he left the combine.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 24, 2022, 06:31:13 AM
Is Banchero auditioning as the Riddler in a new Batman flick?  WTF?

Middle aged white guys from the Midwest criticizing apparel will always garner a hearty chuckle from me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 24, 2022, 08:10:48 AM
It's hard for me to imagine something that would be more fun than being 21 and 22 years old and playing on the same NBA team as your brother.  I hope Isaiah Mobley ends up with a roster spot for the Cavs.

I realize, of course, that Giannis and Thanasis are on the same team -- and that would be great -- but it would be even more fun at 21 and 22 with one a rookie and other a second year player.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 24, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
Middle aged white guys from the Midwest criticizing apparel will always garner a hearty chuckle from me.

I'm not middle aged yet and have perfect fashion sense.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 24, 2022, 06:23:39 PM
So the Hornets hired Steve Clifford for the 2nd time?  Huh?  Why did they fire Borrego in the first place?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MUBurrow on June 24, 2022, 09:32:11 PM
So the Hornets hired Steve Clifford for the 2nd time?  Huh?  Why did they fire Borrego in the first place?

From what I've read, Clifford is respected as one of the top defensive coaches in the league, and Borrego's teams always played crappy defense.  Then again, boosting this group into a barely top half defensive unit has 7th seed written all over it. So I'm not exactly sure how he helps get them to real contention.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2022, 11:20:02 AM
I understand why the Hornets re-hired Clifford, but it still seems wacky and a little despotic desperate to me.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 26, 2022, 02:00:42 PM
I understand why the Hornets re-hired Clifford, but it still seems wacky and a little despotic me.

Despotic?  Did Jordan have some henchmen visit Clifford's home?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Despotic?  Did Jordan have some henchmen visit Clifford's home?

That’s a hilarious auto-correct. I meant desperate, darn it!
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 26, 2022, 02:46:51 PM
to paraphrase  Breaking Bad, it is very Kafkaesque
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 26, 2022, 03:17:01 PM
I understand why the Hornets re-hired Clifford, but it still seems wacky and a little despotic desperate to me.

I'll say this.  Clifford made the playoffs in Charlotte with some truly horrible rosters.  Kemba, Al Jefferson's ancient corpse, and a bunch of guys.  Well I guess, Batum the second time.

Hes got some really impressive young talent this time around, not Frank Kaminsky and Michael Kidd Gilchrist.  So who knows.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 26, 2022, 03:20:16 PM
That’s a hilarious auto-correct. I meant desperate, darn it!

What's not hilarious is we may need to get despotic when it comes to future recruits and transfers.  Fk this NIL bcrap,  I can organize the Instawarrior Operation quickly.  :)
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 26, 2022, 05:01:51 PM
I'll say this.  Clifford made the playoffs in Charlotte with some truly horrible rosters.  Kemba, Al Jefferson's ancient corpse, and a bunch of guys.  Well I guess, Batum the second time.

Hes got some really impressive young talent this time around, not Frank Kaminsky and Michael Kidd Gilchrist.  So who knows.

Jefferson was third-team All-NBA his first year in Charlotte -- 22 ppg, 11 rpg. Kind of an O.G. version of KAT - almost unstoppable on the block. But he got old fast after that, started getting hurt, and that one year was really all they got out of him. That wasn't a great team in 2013-14 but an OK roster -- Jefferson, a young but improving Kemba, Kidd-Gilchrist (a great defender), a rookie Zeller, Josh McRoberts (a good "connect-the-dots" guy), Biyombo, a hard-working backup big. Went 43-39 before getting swept by the Heat.

But yes, there were never any super-talented Charlotte teams during Clifford's time, that's for sure. Batum had a career year and then got a huge deal, and then he sucked, so the Hornets were burdened with a bad contract. Lots of other mediocre players.

I liked Clifford and thought he should have gotten another season, but when Jordan hired Kupchak to run the team, it was hard to blame the new GM for wanting his own man after that, especially given that the Hornets had gone 36-46 in each of Clifford's last two seasons.

Clifford said all the right things when he was canned -- thanked Jordan profusely for the opportunity, said he understood Kupchak wanting his own coach, said the business is about winning and they didn't win quite enough. It was smart of him to not burn bridges.

That classy exit helped Clifford land with Orlando, where he made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years.

Not a single player who was on the last Hornets team he coached (2017-18) is still with the franchise. Most are out of the league. So he gets a clean slate.

As I said, I understand the hire. But it was wacky in that his name was never mentioned either before Atkinson took the job or after Atkinson abruptly quit. Then ... all of a sudden ... he was back.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 27, 2022, 10:56:33 AM
Despotic?  Did Jordan have some henchmen visit Clifford's home?

No wonder Kenny Atkinson went back to the Warriors. He clearly didn't want to subject himself to Jordan's tyranny.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 28, 2022, 06:43:13 PM
This BrItney Griner situation is disturbing. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2022, 07:59:52 AM
Bradley Beal, who hasn't won a damn thing, is about to get almost $50M a year from the Wiz.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 29, 2022, 08:09:07 AM
Bradley Beal, who hasn't won a damn thing, is about to get almost $50M a year from the Wiz.


Wizards are kind of in a pickle with Beal though. He was going to opt out and potentially leave, so you either have to give him the $$ or rebuild. The problem is that I don't think Beal is a supermax player, I mean he is damn good, but is he a "build around him" kinda guy? IDK.

Their inability to get another guy to run with him has been the main problem in DC. Do they expect that to be Porzingas? That's not getting you out of the middle class of the league.

I would have said "trade him and start over," but a GM is loathe to do that because it likely costs him his job.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2022, 08:27:06 AM

Wizards are kind of in a pickle with Beal though. He was going to opt out and potentially leave, so you either have to give him the $$ or rebuild. The problem is that I don't think Beal is a supermax player, I mean he is damn good, but is he a "build around him" kinda guy? IDK.

Their inability to get another guy to run with him has been the main problem in DC. Do they expect that to be Porzingas? That's not getting you out of the middle class of the league.

I would have said "trade him and start over," but a GM is loathe to do that because it likely costs him his job.

Agree with all that.

It's an expensive pickle, and the whole thing doesn't seem very kosher. Really tough for them to dill with. I wouldn't relish that situation.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 29, 2022, 08:53:54 AM
Yeah but they now have Johnny Davis to put the Wizards over the top.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 29, 2022, 09:21:13 AM
"Bradley Beal, who hasn't won a damn thing, is about to get almost $50M a year from the Wiz"



#privileged, aina?
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 29, 2022, 09:46:31 AM
Bradley Beal, who hasn't won a damn thing, is about to get almost $50M a year from the Wiz.

Well worth it. If the Wizards still stink you have a guy who any contender will give you ever pick and pick swap they have for 5 years, plus a starter for.

Much more worried about whether the Knicks and Sixers will be penalized for tampering or not.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2022, 10:05:42 AM

Wizards are kind of in a pickle with Beal though. He was going to opt out and potentially leave, so you either have to give him the $$ or rebuild. The problem is that I don't think Beal is a supermax player, I mean he is damn good, but is he a "build around him" kinda guy? IDK.

Their inability to get another guy to run with him has been the main problem in DC. Do they expect that to be Porzingas? That's not getting you out of the middle class of the league.

I would have said "trade him and start over," but a GM is loathe to do that because it likely costs him his job.

Beal is worth it and he's definitely good enough to be a build around him guy.  He's been one of the most consistent elite scorers in the league, when healthy, for the last couple years.  And for a perimeter jump shooting guy, he's efficient.

The problem, as you mentioned, is the Wizards complete inability to put a competent roster around him.

EDIT: Wizards just added Monte Morris and Will Barton, which is interesting.

Meanwhile, for all the talk about Beal overpaid, the Knicks are about to give $25MM a year to a guy who wasn't even the best PG on his own team.  I like Brunson, but I don't think hes a top 10-12 PG in the league.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 29, 2022, 01:50:39 PM
Beal is worth it and he's definitely good enough to be a build around him guy.  He's been one of the most consistent elite scorers in the league, when healthy, for the last couple years.  And for a perimeter jump shooting guy, he's efficient.

The problem, as you mentioned, is the Wizards complete inability to put a competent roster around him.

EDIT: Wizards just added Monte Morris and Will Barton, which is interesting.

Meanwhile, for all the talk about Beal overpaid, the Knicks are about to give $25MM a year to a guy who wasn't even the best PG on his own team.  I like Brunson, but I don't think hes a top 10-12 PG in the league.

sadly, $25MM doesn't even put him in the top 10-12
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2022, 01:57:51 PM
sadly, $25MM doesn't even put him in the top 10-12

If you take out Damian Lillard, Kyrie, D'Angelo Russell, and Jamal Murray, who are all SGs who sometimes initiate offense (maybe Dame is a PG), $25MM would put him safely in the top 10 salary wise.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 29, 2022, 02:16:04 PM
Tyler Herro is rumored to be finalizing a $25MM-$30MM/yr contract
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 29, 2022, 02:41:53 PM
Tyler Herro is rumored to be finalizing a $25MM-$30MM/yr contract

Yikes.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2022, 02:48:42 PM
Just thankful the Hausers didn't want to play with that ball hog.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2022, 04:37:59 PM
Tyler Herro is rumored to be finalizing a $25MM-$30MM/yr contract

If he went 22ish/6/5 on 45/40/85 again after what he did this year.  I can start to see it.  But man that feels premature.

Then again, all he's done is outperform expectations to this point.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 29, 2022, 04:51:36 PM
If he went 22ish/6/5 on 45/40/85 again after what he did this year.  I can start to see it.  But man that feels premature.

Then again, all he's done is outperform expectations to this point.

I didn't think he was particularly good in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2022, 04:53:46 PM
It’s all funny money.

Including the $48M year Harden just opted out of.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2022, 04:54:58 PM
I didn't think he was particularly good in the playoffs.

He wasn't healthy for a chunk of them.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 29, 2022, 09:30:02 PM
He wasn't healthy for a chunk of them.

True, but he wilted when the team needed him.

I'm glad I'm not the guy that has to pay him. I can't figure out what his ceiling is, but I'd be afraid to not pay the man that's growing at such an incredible clip every year.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2022, 09:56:04 PM
True, but he wilted when the team needed him.

I'm glad I'm not the guy that has to pay him. I can't figure out what his ceiling is, but I'd be afraid to not pay the man that's growing at such an incredible clip every year.

Yea, thats sort of what I meant by he's exceeded expectations.  I remember in this thread people laughing at his comments about himself before the season and how he viewed himself.  And pointed to some of his numbers last year after he blew up a bit in the bubble.  Then he backed it up and had a great year.

I have trouble seeing him as a really top tier, top 10 SG...but then again he just keeps getting better, seemingly has a great work ethic, and is in a great organization.  Who knows, its certainly a really interesting dilemma.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 29, 2022, 10:05:14 PM
Yea, thats sort of what I meant by he's exceeded expectations.  I remember in this thread people laughing at his comments about himself before the season and how he viewed himself.  And pointed to some of his numbers last year after he blew up a bit in the bubble.  Then he backed it up and had a great year.

I have trouble seeing him as a really top tier, top 10 SG...but then again he just keeps getting better, seemingly has a great work ethic, and is in a great organization.  Who knows, its certainly a really interesting dilemma.

Didn't he compare himself to Ja Morant? He had a good year,  he didn't have that good is a year
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 30, 2022, 05:11:54 AM
Didn't he compare himself to Ja Morant? He had a good year,  he didn't have that good is a year

He compared himself to Morant?  They have completely different games and skill-sets even if Herro for some reason thinks he's on his level.   
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: lawdog77 on June 30, 2022, 05:13:48 AM
He compared himself to Morant?  They have completely different games and skill-sets even if Herro for some reason thinks he's on his level.   
Well, they both have made Joey Hauser their b!tch.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 30, 2022, 05:18:51 AM
Well, they both have made Joey Hauser their b!tch.

That must have been the impetus for his delusional comparison.  I remember when most people called me crazy for saying I would take Morant ahead of  Zion after watching him play two games before he destroyed us in the tournament. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2022, 05:43:30 AM
That must have been the impetus for his delusional comparison.  I remember when most people called me crazy for saying I would take Morant ahead of  Zion after watching him play two games before he destroyed us in the tournament.

I also thought taking Zion first was a mistake. Amazing athlete, but I couldn't imagine his knees holding up. And injury history has already riddled his young career, which was sadly predictable.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 30, 2022, 05:56:40 AM
I also thought taking Zion first was a mistake. Amazing athlete, but I couldn't imagine his knees holding up. And injury history has already riddled his young career, which was sadly predictable.

I do think Zion is an incredible talent and hopefully he's back healthy.  I wouldn't count him out, he still is an amazing player.  That said I just felt because Morant would have the ball in his hands more, and is electric in the open floor, he would be harder to guard.  Ja has a different gear, it's really that simple.  His coast to coast jets and overall quicks, combined with his ability to change speeds and direction, make him an absolute nightmare in the open floor.  Or using a high screen in the half-court for that matter.  And we haven't even mentioned his ability to elevate which is triple tier one. 
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 30, 2022, 06:36:00 AM
He compared himself to Morant?  They have completely different games and skill-sets even if Herro for some reason thinks he's on his level.   

https://clutchpoints.com/heat-news-tyler-herro-feels-himself-with-wild-nba-superstar-comparisons/

He put himself in the same group as Morant, Doncic, and Young. Like I said, he had a very good season, he didn't have that good of a season.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: wadesworld on June 30, 2022, 06:38:40 AM
https://clutchpoints.com/heat-news-tyler-herro-feels-himself-with-wild-nba-superstar-comparisons/

He put himself in the same group as Morant, Doncic, and Young. Like I said, he had a very good season, he didn't have that good of a season.

Correct. I stand by laughing at those comments 100%.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2022, 07:51:29 AM
Even the headline is funny. "Sharpshooter?" His 3% last year was .399. His EFG is .525.

Good on him that he's getting this contract, but IDK...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MuggsyB on June 30, 2022, 08:04:34 AM
https://clutchpoints.com/heat-news-tyler-herro-feels-himself-with-wild-nba-superstar-comparisons/

He put himself in the same group as Morant, Doncic, and Young. Like I said, he had a very good season, he didn't have that good of a season.

The same group as Doncic?  Oh....okay.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2022, 09:11:02 AM
Even the headline is funny. "Sharpshooter?" His 3% last year was .399. His EFG is .525.

Good on him that he's getting this contract, but IDK...

I mean, that percentage is top 25 in the league last year...And the eFG is top 25 among guards.

Again, not saying im sold on him getting that kind of contract, but those are very good shooting percentages, not sure why its funny.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2022, 09:23:07 AM
I guess I have a different definition of "sharpshooter" than you do.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 30, 2022, 10:50:55 AM
The Hornets' Miles Bridges, on the eve of perhaps becoming one of the richest players in the league, gets arrested for felony domestic violence.

Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 30, 2022, 10:53:08 AM
The Hornets' Miles Bridges, on the eve of perhaps becoming one of the richest players in the league, gets arrested for felony domestic violence.

Izzo is March
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2022, 10:53:26 AM
Not been a stellar off-season for the Hornets so far...
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: MU82 on June 30, 2022, 11:15:33 AM
Not been a stellar off-season for the Hornets so far...

A trend dating back a couple decades.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 30, 2022, 06:56:35 PM
anfernee simmons 4 years $100 mil...quite the risk hedging $25 mil/year
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2022, 07:02:55 PM
Bucks sign Joe Ingles with the MLE. Good shooter and supposedly great locker room guy. Risky with him coming off a torn ACL in January meaning he won't be available immediately. But he's big at 6'8"
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: cheebs09 on June 30, 2022, 07:30:00 PM
Bucks sign Joe Ingles with the MLE. Good shooter and supposedly great locker room guy. Risky with him coming off a torn ACL in January meaning he won't be available immediately. But he's big at 6'8"

The contract could be valuable come deadline time.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2022, 08:49:17 PM
anfernee simmons 4 years $100 mil...quite the risk hedging $25 mil/year

Wild contract for a guy who has never been a regular starter.  If he's getting $25MM, then Herro getting $25MM is value.  I think he's an intriguing young player, but man that seems premature.

Bucks sign Joe Ingles with the MLE. Good shooter and supposedly great locker room guy. Risky with him coming off a torn ACL in January meaning he won't be available immediately. But he's big at 6'8"

LOVE it if he's remotely healthy.  He's exactly the kind of guy the Bucks need.  Good shooter, good vet presence, good size.  Solid pickup.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on June 30, 2022, 09:48:08 PM
Wild contract for a guy who has never been a regular starter.  If he's getting $25MM, then Herro getting $25MM is value.  I think he's an intriguing young player, but man that seems premature.

LOVE it if he's remotely healthy.  He's exactly the kind of guy the Bucks need.  Good shooter, good vet presence, good size.  Solid pickup.

Not sure I see a big difference between Herro and Simmons. Simmons was the better shooter, playing on a bad team, meaning he was focused on more.

I'd take Simmons over Herro right now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on July 01, 2022, 07:11:15 AM
Do people still think $25 million per year is max money?  The highest salaries are now $45 million per year.

60% of a max salary is fine for players like Herro, Brunson, and Simmons.  Especially when taking into account that future contracts will continuinge to climb.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on July 01, 2022, 09:19:57 AM
Not sure I see a big difference between Herro and Simmons. Simmons was the better shooter, playing on a bad team, meaning he was focused on more.

I'd take Simmons over Herro right now.

Simmons shot 44.3% on 14 attempts a game and Herro shot 44.7% on 17 attempts a game.  Simmons shot 40.5% on 7.5 3s a game, Herro shot 40% on 7.  Their eFG are 2% different.  Simmons wasn't the focus of any concerted effort, especially if Dame was on the floor.

Herro was the 6th man of the year on a great team and Simmons put up decent stats for a terrible team, not sure why Simmons is some preferred option.  He's been in the league 4 seasons and played no real meaningful basketball.  He only got extended minutes this year cause McCollum was traded and Lillard was hurt.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on July 01, 2022, 10:45:09 AM
Simmons shot 44.3% on 14 attempts a game and Herro shot 44.7% on 17 attempts a game.  Simmons shot 40.5% on 7.5 3s a game, Herro shot 40% on 7.  Their eFG are 2% different.  Simmons wasn't the focus of any concerted effort, especially if Dame was on the floor.

Herro was the 6th man of the year on a great team and Simmons put up decent stats for a terrible team, not sure why Simmons is some preferred option.  He's been in the league 4 seasons and played no real meaningful basketball.  He only got extended minutes this year cause McCollum was traded and Lillard was hurt.

So your stats confirm my statement that there is not a big difference between Herro and Simmons, and that Simmons was the better shooter.

6th man of the year is always going to go to a player on a "great team" that is how those awards work.

Regarding who I'd take. That is an opinion, and I'd take Simmons.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: CreightonWarrior on July 01, 2022, 11:28:15 AM
The Zion contract will age beautifully.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on July 01, 2022, 11:29:18 AM
So your stats confirm my statement that there is not a big difference between Herro and Simmons, and that Simmons was the better shooter.

6th man of the year is always going to go to a player on a "great team" that is how those awards work.

Regarding who I'd take. That is an opinion, and I'd take Simmons.

I don't know about you, but less than a percentage doesn't convey "better shooter" to me.  Trying to claim so is just pedantic.  There is more to basketball than shooting percentages, which Herro was better than Simmons in basically all of them.

Herro's advanced stats were much better, he's a better defender.  The notion that Simmons was more of a focus for defenses than Herro is just silly and not based in anything.  He was the Blazers' third leading scorer...after removing Dame and CJ.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but its not based in much other than minute differences in shooting percentages.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: forgetful on July 01, 2022, 12:05:21 PM
I don't know about you, but less than a percentage doesn't convey "better shooter" to me.  Trying to claim so is just pedantic.  There is more to basketball than shooting percentages, which Herro was better than Simmons in basically all of them.

Herro's advanced stats were much better, he's a better defender.  The notion that Simmons was more of a focus for defenses than Herro is just silly and not based in anything.  He was the Blazers' third leading scorer...after removing Dame and CJ.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but its not based in much other than minute differences in shooting percentages.

Much of the NBA is about potential.

Herro has mediocre athleticism, has short arms (6'3" wingspan). I view him largely at his max potential right now. And his defensive abilities are significantly inflated by him playing on the Heat who have a great defense.

Anfernee Simons is an excellent athlete (41.5" vertical), with a long wingspan (6'9"). He is just tapping into his potential at the moment, and him just tapping into his potential places him as a better shooter, with more athleticism and better measurements.

Worst case scenario in my opinion, is that Anfernee Simons stays a Herro-esque player. But the upside is a possible perennial all-star.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: JWags85 on July 01, 2022, 01:05:33 PM
Much of the NBA is about potential.

Herro has mediocre athleticism, has short arms (6'3" wingspan). I view him largely at his max potential right now. And his defensive abilities are significantly inflated by him playing on the Heat who have a great defense.

Anfernee Simons is an excellent athlete (41.5" vertical), with a long wingspan (6'9"). He is just tapping into his potential at the moment, and him just tapping into his potential places him as a better shooter, with more athleticism and better measurements.

Worst case scenario in my opinion, is that Anfernee Simons stays a Herro-esque player. But the upside is a possible perennial all-star.

I find it interesting that someone who has been in the league a season longer is viewed as still growing into his game.  But Herro is topped out.

I understand your athleticism point, but you seem to want to discredit everything about Herro, from his defensive (just cause of his team) to being 6th man (oh just cause he was on a better team) to his shooting making it seem like its Steph Curry Simmons to Russell Westbrook Herro while focusing everything on an older player's potential.

Not much else to say right now, cause arguments have been made, but you seem to be parroting the critiques of Herro before the draft and ignoring what he's done as an NBA player thus far.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 01, 2022, 03:27:12 PM
That list should start with Gobert and it's not close. Donovan Mitchell refuses to pass to the guy.

Gobert to the Timberwolves
https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1542955673880825856
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 01, 2022, 05:46:27 PM
And Brogdan to the Celtics.

They're awfully scary now.
Title: Re: 2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 01, 2022, 05:49:09 PM
And Brogdan to the Celtics.

They're awfully scary now.

He’s garbage