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Author Topic: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....  (Read 9874 times)

MU82

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2021, 08:05:05 PM »

82 said Buzz's first teams at Tech and A&M lost more than the team before them. They didn't.

No, 82 didn't say that at all.

I said 2 things about Buzz:

Do you think Buzz Williams is a good coach? If so, why? He didn't win at VaTech until Year 3, and he did not win in his first two years at Texas A&M.

and ...

I'm a pretty big optimist, but I'm also a realist. Most of us think Buzz is a darn good coach, but he didn't go to the NCAAs his first two seasons at either Va Tech or TAMU.

You responded to my first reference this way:

But both VaTech and A&M won more games in Buzz's first season than the season before he was hired.

Meaning you refuted something I didn't say. And now you're bringing it up again ... but again, I didn't say otherwise.

As I reminded you, the OP said: No Shaka doesn't get a pass this season and he better make the NCAA tournament. So everything I said thereafter wasn't based on whether Shaka could win more than Wojo did last season -- goodness, I hope so! -- but on whether Shaka would get to the NCAAT in Year 1. For perspective, I said that Buzz -- who we all agree is a very good coach -- was unable to get to the NCAAT in either Year 1 or Year 2 with the two teams he has coached since leaving Marquette.

I'm not even sure what we disagree on anymore because you've said so much. I do hope we can agree that if you're gonna quote your fellow Scoopers, you do so correctly. Thanks!
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

MU82

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2021, 08:09:11 PM »
Weird segue into political stuff.

Not a single word of what I said in that post was "political."

I never said it was bad for the players, just will probably not be as good for Marquette basketball as some around here seem to think.

I said nothing different. I said only that we don't know yet, and we won't know for some time.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

bilsu

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2021, 08:24:21 PM »
If we go 5-15 in the Big East, this will be a MAJOR disappointment for everyone. That's DePaul like numbers. It, to me, means the team didn't improve during the season. I see us hovering around the .500 mark all year., with a winning streak at the end. 7-4 nonconference, 11-9 conference, win a few in the BET. BubbleTeam.
.One of us is unreasonable. We will have to wait to see who it is.

bilsu

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2021, 08:31:04 PM »
I would love to see Harley Davidson get involved with Marquette's basketball team with advertising.

After a cursory internet review of Harley Davidson's financial status and position in the marketplace, it seems that they have rebounded very nicely from a dark period that was only partially due to Covid. Their new president has impressively turned things around in just one year but market surveys show a long term problem with millennials disinterest in HD's products. This could be a great opportunity for HD and MU.
I am not sure why they would do it. How more many motorcycles would they have sold, if they could of used a Markus Howard likeness? I am thinking a basketball players likeness has very little value for selling motorcycles.

bilsu

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2021, 08:40:53 PM »
Marquette basketball in 1964 and Marquette basketball in 2021 is about as apples to oranges as you can get. Except perhaps college basketball in 1964 and college basketball in 2021.
In 1964, a total of 28 teams made the postseason, NCAA and NIT combined. Today, the NCAA and NIT invite 100 teams, and another 36 get invited to the CBI and CIT.
I will be enjoying the complaints on MUscoop, if MU makes the CBI or CIT this year.

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2021, 08:42:45 PM »
I am not sure why they would do it. How more many motorcycles would they have sold, if they could of used a Markus Howard likeness? I am thinking a basketball players likeness has very little value for selling motorcycles.
I’m thinking you are correct. The Venn diagram of college basketball players and Harley enthusiasts has to have very little overlap.

bilsu

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2021, 08:45:24 PM »
By my count MU still has a scholarship open.  I'm surprised Shaka didn't move sooner to fill it, is anyone else?  Still need a big to take garcia's spot.
You cannot recruit players that are not interested. I think it is more likely the case that the top transfers were not interested in MU, than Shaka was not interested in them. Every coach tries to get the best players.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2021, 08:51:49 PM »
I'm okay with giving Shaka a transition year. His first season shouldn't be the baseline, however. A lot of people gave Wojo a pass for Year 2 even though he missed the postseason because we improved on his god awful first year.

jesmu84

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #133 on: July 22, 2021, 09:31:58 PM »
I'm okay with giving Shaka a transition year.

Yep

bilsu

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #134 on: July 23, 2021, 09:09:22 AM »
I'm okay with giving Shaka a transition year. His first season shouldn't be the baseline, however. A lot of people gave Wojo a pass for Year 2 even though he missed the postseason because we improved on his god awful first year.
I expect this to be a bad year. I will not crucify Shaka for his first year on court results. The problem comes, because many posters do not realize you are not going to win with a young team and therefore get upset when we do not win. This site is often unrealistic in their expectations.


Uncle Rico

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #135 on: July 23, 2021, 10:01:09 AM »
I expect this to be a bad year. I will not crucify Shaka for his first year on court results. The problem comes, because many posters do not realize you are not going to win with a young team and therefore get upset when we do not win. This site is often unrealistic in their expectations.

I’m really excited for what “derogatory” nickname willie gives him.  I’m like a kid on XMas Eve, tbh
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #136 on: July 23, 2021, 04:33:04 PM »
I’m really excited for what “derogatory” nickname willie gives him.  I’m like a kid on XMas Eve, tbh

This made me smile.

PointWarrior

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #137 on: July 23, 2021, 08:26:58 PM »
Not to mention there is an actual NCAA rule that young basketball teams cant win. 


I expect this to be a bad year. I will not crucify Shaka for his first year on court results. The problem comes, because many posters do not realize you are not going to win with a young team and therefore get upset when we do not win. This site is often unrealistic in their expectations.

Daniel

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #138 on: July 23, 2021, 09:06:28 PM »
Happy to take the lumps, if there is some success in recruiting.  I have concerns that Shaka's recruiting success will be much closer to what Crean, Buzz, and Wojo did vs what Shaka did at Texas.
Marqueete coaches have traditionally landed 3 and 4 star guys.  Occasionally better.  And Shaka has done the same so far.   The key will be to see what Shaka gets out of his recruits.  Buzz got a lot out of his players.  Wojo not so much.   Let’s see what Shaka can do.  I think he will get a lot

willie warrior

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #139 on: July 24, 2021, 04:07:50 AM »
I’m really excited for what “derogatory” nickname willie gives him.  I’m like a kid on XMas Eve, tbh
Spoken like an expert on the subject of derogatory. But just to keep you excited there is plenty of material left from Wojo-Dukiet catastrophe to go around a while. Maybe it will pass you off enough for you to mount your green horse

Uncle Rico

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #140 on: July 24, 2021, 06:38:53 AM »
Spoken like an expert on the subject of derogatory. But just to keep you excited there is plenty of material left from Wojo-Dukiet catastrophe to go around a while. Maybe it will pass you off enough for you to mount your green horse

Oh, no.  I leave the expertise on derogatory to you.  I’m very excited, though!
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

TSmith34

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #141 on: July 24, 2021, 07:43:07 AM »
I'm a big fan of expertise on sarcastic.

MU82

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #142 on: July 24, 2021, 02:10:08 PM »
Marqueete coaches have traditionally landed 3 and 4 star guys.  Occasionally better.  And Shaka has done the same so far.   The key will be to see what Shaka gets out of his recruits.  Buzz got a lot out of his players.  Wojo not so much.   Let’s see what Shaka can do.  I think he will get a lot

Very fair take.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

willie warrior

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #143 on: July 24, 2021, 10:19:36 PM »
Oh, no.  I leave the expertise on derogatory to you.  I’m very excited, though!
But you brought thr subject up. If the shoe fits  wear it

Uncle Rico

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #144 on: July 25, 2021, 07:12:58 AM »
But you brought thr subject up. If the shoe fits  wear it

Have you been workshopping any names for Shaka?
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #145 on: July 25, 2021, 07:44:13 AM »
Have you been workshopping any names for Shaka?

How about Woshako?  ;D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 07:48:53 AM by Scoop Snoop »
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                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #146 on: July 25, 2021, 07:55:00 AM »
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

dgies9156

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #147 on: July 25, 2021, 10:57:32 AM »
I’ll start by saying I have no idea what we have for next year, yet. I know we have some good parts, but how good remains to be seen. I’d like to think Oso will blossom and be the recruit we thought he would be a year ago. Justin will be great and so, far, I think we have some good parts to the puzzle.

That said, underachieving is the reason Wojo’s ass was fired. Seven years and nothing to show for it. The faithful revolted and Wojo paid the price — he should have because the buck stopped with him.

If Shaka puts up another disappointing year next year, we’re in deep do-do. I question whether we’ll be able to attract the recruits we want and the talent we need to be Marquette! We’ll be just another basketball playing school — a step ahead of DePaul and three feet or more behind Villanova, UNC etc.

I like what Shaka is doing — coaching up three and four star players. I think we can win big time that way and eventually break through in the five-star recruiting ranks. It’s what the Red Rodent does and I’m confident we can outdo that tech school without the likes of Floppy Mcdickpuncher.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #148 on: July 25, 2021, 12:01:36 PM »
I’ll start by saying I have no idea what we have for next year, yet. I know we have some good parts, but how good remains to be seen. I’d like to think Oso will blossom and be the recruit we thought he would be a year ago. Justin will be great and so, far, I think we have some good parts to the puzzle.

That said, underachieving is the reason Wojo’s ass was fired. Seven years and nothing to show for it. The faithful revolted and Wojo paid the price — he should have because the buck stopped with him.

If Shaka puts up another disappointing year next year, we’re in deep do-do. I question whether we’ll be able to attract the recruits we want and the talent we need to be Marquette! We’ll be just another basketball playing school — a step ahead of DePaul and three feet or more behind Villanova, UNC etc.

I like what Shaka is doing — coaching up three and four star players. I think we can win big time that way and eventually break through in the five-star recruiting ranks. It’s what the Red Rodent does and I’m confident we can outdo that tech school without the likes of Floppy Mcdickpuncher.

Deep do-do, huh?  ;D I think we can get away with one more "disappointing" year (but only one year) as Shaka gets his systems in place and players develop. I really hate saying that we are probably going to struggle but it is typically the price of admission when a new coach is brought in to clean up a mess. I hope your optimism-such as it is- regarding the players you mentioned turns into reality. Its possible that Shaka and the team exceed expectations. If that happens, a couple of our 5 freshmen are going to have to surprise us right from the start.

The narrative that some Scoopers have pushed that we have 9 freshmen (sometimes not even bothering to explain just how they decided to take away their listed status as sophomores) is ridiculous. One went so far as to write that we have "no sophomores". Izzat so?  I get that Oso and Omax had little playing time so yeah, I understand the temptation to arbitrarily reclassify them but to toss Kolek and Justin in the same box? Did a HS senior make the winning basket vs. the Rodents?

Getting back to your concerns- I think we should support Shaka through what may be another disappointing year and not worry. Better days/seasons are ahead.



 

« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 12:04:41 PM by Scoop Snoop »
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                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #149 on: July 25, 2021, 12:31:49 PM »
So in summary, Shaka doesn't get a pass from anyone, but in general will receive an "incomplete" at the end of this season. 

Regardless of the results (tourney birth, or wojo-like year) the expectations go way up the next two years.

I think we should support Shaka through what may be another disappointing year and not worry.

I think you're right.  But not worry?  Where exactly do you think you are?
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

 

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