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Author Topic: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....  (Read 9060 times)

duanewade

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Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« on: July 20, 2021, 08:59:17 PM »
As usual I'm amazed by the "knowledge" expounded by posters with 10,000+ posts by their stage names.  :(

No Shaka doesn't get a pass this season and he better make the NCAA tournament.  He has 12 high major players on scholarship and most, to all of them, were top 150 recruits and/or have that type of upside.  Three are 22+ year old - fifth year seniors and many sophomores where the biggest step up in a player's career often occurs between freshman and sophomore year.  Further Shaka has been ruthless in running off players so he could get a roster full of high major players knowing only 8 (possibly 9) will play meaningful minutes.  So why should he get sympathy and a pass when he knows his actions will lead to two to three players and their family's not being happy with their roles and transferring?  To this point I'm glad he did this as he wants lots of competition to see which cream rises to the top but at the same time he shouldn't have the bar of expectations lowered for him when he's not doing it for any of his players. 

This roster reminds me of Buzz' rosters which were full of athletic ability including a handful of guys with NBA potential.  Heck even our preferred walk-on has some potential upside.   

Kentucky recently went to back to back Final 4's against Wisconsin with freshman starters.  So there is no excuse to write off this year like all the lackeys' are doing already and did constantly for Wojo while making bogus excuse after excuse for him.  ::)

Last time I checked Shaka isn't a rookie coach either and we're paying him $3MM+ based on the fact he's a known commodity that is supposed to deliver excellent results in exchange for this lofty salary.  Otherwise we would have hired a hot assistant or mid-major coach for $1 to $2MM+/-. 

If he can't get this team winning enough this year to be one of the nation's top 40 teams worthy of an at large bid then this will end up being another bad hire. 

Finally he better win the Leon Bond recruiting battle as well.  We also brought Shaka in to get just these kind of players in our backyard that we've been missing/ignoring since Buzz left.  If he can't land Leon Bond and loses him to a coach who just had a mass exodus of transfers this offseason and whose teams scores 50 points a game... then we should have hired Porter Moser.  Porter was the better coach but we thought Shaka would be a better recruiter and lead to a quicker fix while also potentially being a better overall coach as well. 

The bar has not been lowered Shaka!  I like what you've done so far but much more is expected and now and not three to five years from now!  8-)

4everwarriors

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2021, 09:04:28 PM »
Market uz up tadey, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU82

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2021, 10:11:03 PM »
As usual I'm amazed by the "knowledge" expounded by posters with 10,000+ posts by their stage names.  :(

No Shaka doesn't get a pass this season and he better make the NCAA tournament.  He has 12 high major players on scholarship and most, to all of them, were top 150 recruits and/or have that type of upside.  Three are 22+ year old - fifth year seniors and many sophomores where the biggest step up in a player's career often occurs between freshman and sophomore year.  Further Shaka has been ruthless in running off players so he could get a roster full of high major players knowing only 8 (possibly 9) will play meaningful minutes.  So why should he get sympathy and a pass when he knows his actions will lead to two to three players and their family's not being happy with their roles and transferring?  To this point I'm glad he did this as he wants lots of competition to see which cream rises to the top but at the same time he shouldn't have the bar of expectations lowered for him when he's not doing it for any of his players. 

This roster reminds me of Buzz' rosters which were full of athletic ability including a handful of guys with NBA potential.  Heck even our preferred walk-on has some potential upside.   

Kentucky recently went to back to back Final 4's against Wisconsin with freshman starters.  So there is no excuse to write off this year like all the lackeys' are doing already and did constantly for Wojo while making bogus excuse after excuse for him.  ::)

Last time I checked Shaka isn't a rookie coach either and we're paying him $3MM+ based on the fact he's a known commodity that is supposed to deliver excellent results in exchange for this lofty salary.  Otherwise we would have hired a hot assistant or mid-major coach for $1 to $2MM+/-. 

If he can't get this team winning enough this year to be one of the nation's top 40 teams worthy of an at large bid then this will end up being another bad hire. 

Finally he better win the Leon Bond recruiting battle as well.  We also brought Shaka in to get just these kind of players in our backyard that we've been missing/ignoring since Buzz left.  If he can't land Leon Bond and loses him to a coach who just had a mass exodus of transfers this offseason and whose teams scores 50 points a game... then we should have hired Porter Moser.  Porter was the better coach but we thought Shaka would be a better recruiter and lead to a quicker fix while also potentially being a better overall coach as well. 

The bar has not been lowered Shaka!  I like what you've done so far but much more is expected and now and not three to five years from now!  8-)

What's the "or else" here? What will the consequences be if he doesn't make the NCAA tournament? What will you personally do?
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2021, 10:12:36 PM »
Over/under on Porter Moser Lifespan in Norman?

4everwarriors

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2021, 10:17:13 PM »
Crean sucks
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Viper

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2021, 10:58:56 PM »
As usual I'm amazed by the "knowledge" expounded by posters with 10,000+ posts by their stage names.  :(

No Shaka doesn't get a pass this season and he better make the NCAA tournament.  He has 12 high major players on scholarship and most, to all of them, were top 150 recruits and/or have that type of upside.  Three are 22+ year old - fifth year seniors and many sophomores where the biggest step up in a player's career often occurs between freshman and sophomore year.  Further Shaka has been ruthless in running off players so he could get a roster full of high major players knowing only 8 (possibly 9) will play meaningful minutes.  So why should he get sympathy and a pass when he knows his actions will lead to two to three players and their family's not being happy with their roles and transferring?  To this point I'm glad he did this as he wants lots of competition to see which cream rises to the top but at the same time he shouldn't have the bar of expectations lowered for him when he's not doing it for any of his players. 

This roster reminds me of Buzz' rosters which were full of athletic ability including a handful of guys with NBA potential.  Heck even our preferred walk-on has some potential upside.   

Kentucky recently went to back to back Final 4's against Wisconsin with freshman starters.  So there is no excuse to write off this year like all the lackeys' are doing already and did constantly for Wojo while making bogus excuse after excuse for him.  ::)

Last time I checked Shaka isn't a rookie coach either and we're paying him $3MM+ based on the fact he's a known commodity that is supposed to deliver excellent results in exchange for this lofty salary.  Otherwise we would have hired a hot assistant or mid-major coach for $1 to $2MM+/-. 

If he can't get this team winning enough this year to be one of the nation's top 40 teams worthy of an at large bid then this will end up being another bad hire. 

Finally he better win the Leon Bond recruiting battle as well.  We also brought Shaka in to get just these kind of players in our backyard that we've been missing/ignoring since Buzz left.  If he can't land Leon Bond and loses him to a coach who just had a mass exodus of transfers this offseason and whose teams scores 50 points a game... then we should have hired Porter Moser.  Porter was the better coach but we thought Shaka would be a better recruiter and lead to a quicker fix while also potentially being a better overall coach as well. 

The bar has not been lowered Shaka!  I like what you've done so far but much more is expected and now and not three to five years from now!  8-)

TallTitan34

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2021, 11:19:22 PM »
As usual I'm amazed by the "knowledge" expounded by posters with 10,000+ posts by their stage names.  :(

No Shaka doesn't get a pass this season and he better make the NCAA tournament.  He has 12 high major players on scholarship and most, to all of them, were top 150 recruits and/or have that type of upside.  Three are 22+ year old - fifth year seniors and many sophomores where the biggest step up in a player's career often occurs between freshman and sophomore year.  Further Shaka has been ruthless in running off players so he could get a roster full of high major players knowing only 8 (possibly 9) will play meaningful minutes.  So why should he get sympathy and a pass when he knows his actions will lead to two to three players and their family's not being happy with their roles and transferring?  To this point I'm glad he did this as he wants lots of competition to see which cream rises to the top but at the same time he shouldn't have the bar of expectations lowered for him when he's not doing it for any of his players. 

This roster reminds me of Buzz' rosters which were full of athletic ability including a handful of guys with NBA potential.  Heck even our preferred walk-on has some potential upside.   

Kentucky recently went to back to back Final 4's against Wisconsin with freshman starters.  So there is no excuse to write off this year like all the lackeys' are doing already and did constantly for Wojo while making bogus excuse after excuse for him.  ::)

Last time I checked Shaka isn't a rookie coach either and we're paying him $3MM+ based on the fact he's a known commodity that is supposed to deliver excellent results in exchange for this lofty salary.  Otherwise we would have hired a hot assistant or mid-major coach for $1 to $2MM+/-. 

If he can't get this team winning enough this year to be one of the nation's top 40 teams worthy of an at large bid then this will end up being another bad hire. 

Finally he better win the Leon Bond recruiting battle as well.  We also brought Shaka in to get just these kind of players in our backyard that we've been missing/ignoring since Buzz left.  If he can't land Leon Bond and loses him to a coach who just had a mass exodus of transfers this offseason and whose teams scores 50 points a game... then we should have hired Porter Moser.  Porter was the better coach but we thought Shaka would be a better recruiter and lead to a quicker fix while also potentially being a better overall coach as well. 

The bar has not been lowered Shaka!  I like what you've done so far but much more is expected and now and not three to five years from now!  8-)

Marquette Overload: http://www.muoverload.com

tower912

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 06:34:41 AM »
 I do not expect an >.500 season.  Shaka is a proven coach, but he doesn't walk on water.   With the near complete roster turnover and the lack of proven D1 talent, my only expectation is improvement through the season.   

In other words, he gets a pass from me for a while.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 07:14:34 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

mileskishnish72

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2021, 07:38:35 AM »


In other words, he gets a pass from me for a while.

Christmas?
February?
Or just a trend?

muwarrior69

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2021, 08:59:26 AM »
I get it. We're all frustrated because the program sucks. Should be an interesting year. We have only 2 out of 12 players who actually played together and I'll leave it to the stat gurus here to tell us how many minutes Greg and Justin actually played together. So Shaka is essentially working with a blank slate and I'm looking forward to see if he can fit all the pieces to build a team rather than 5 to 9 guys do their own thing. I'll give him 3 seasons.

Ruby

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2021, 09:02:46 AM »
Hired the coach. Now just add water and "whalla!", instant Final Four!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 09:40:37 PM by Ruby »

Retire0

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2021, 09:14:43 AM »
Hired the coach. Now just add water and "whalla!", instand Final Four!

New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2021, 09:16:33 AM »
Over/under on Porter Moser Lifespan in Norman?

My guess is 8 years minimum & likely retires there, widely considered the best coach in program history. He would have been a better fit at MU, but I would be shocked if he wasn't successful at OU.

NCMUFan

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2021, 09:59:31 AM »
I think Shaka deserves some latitude. 
No reason to stress out this season.
This season for me, victories will be smiles  :), but defeats just shoulder shrugs  :-\.

TallTitan34

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2021, 10:09:59 AM »


The Cubs did a Craig Kimbrell beard chia pet giveaway this season....
Marquette Overload: http://www.muoverload.com

dad's couch

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2021, 10:26:30 AM »
Why should our expectations be any less than a NCAA Tournament bid? A lot of people have said on this board we are a premier program. UNC, Texas and Indiana hired new coaches and are in the early pre season rankings.  Schools like Minnesota, Utah and DePaul are talking about building the program. So is Marquette a program similar to Indiana and Texas or Minnesota and DePaul?

Goose

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2021, 10:43:56 AM »
I'm not a 10,000+ post guy, but no pass for Shaka from this guy. Plus, the bar is being raised by me because of the national attention the Bucks brought to the city. I could recruit a top team right now at MU.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 11:10:55 AM by Goose »

MU82

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2021, 10:48:01 AM »
I'm not a 10,000+ post guy, guy no pass for Shaka from this guy. Plus, the bar is being raised by me because of the national attention the Bucks brought to the city. I could recruit a top team right now at MU.

So if Shaka doesn't get us to the NCAA tournament this season, it'll be the first "red flag" about his coaching ability, Goose?
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

TallTitan34

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2021, 11:08:04 AM »
I could recruit a top team right now at MU.

Yeah you seem like a guy 18 year olds would really respond to.
Marquette Overload: http://www.muoverload.com

Goose

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2021, 11:09:56 AM »
82

I said when Shaka was hired that there was no free pass for him.

TallTitan34

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2021, 11:13:42 AM »
Why should our expectations be any less than a NCAA Tournament bid?

Because some of us are actually realistic?
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2021, 11:25:21 AM »
Why should our expectations be any less than a NCAA Tournament bid? A lot of people have said on this board we are a premier program. UNC, Texas and Indiana hired new coaches and are in the early pre season rankings.  Schools like Minnesota, Utah and DePaul are talking about building the program. So is Marquette a program similar to Indiana and Texas or Minnesota and DePaul?

I think there's a difference between where we were at the beginning of the offseason and where we are now. When Shaka was hired,  it would have been reasonable to expect an NCAAT appearance. He could have focused on keeping the better pieces of the roster and gone out and gotten a bunch of top transfers. That's what UNC, Texas, and Indiana did.  It's a viable win now strategy though it is harder to sustain over multiple seasons.

Shaka chose a different path. He let most of the roster go elsewhere and filled his team with freshmen and sophomores who have yet to accomplish much (or anything at all in most cases)  at the collegiate level but show promise. He topped it off with two senior transfers who aren't superstars but will establish the blueprint of a defensive culture that the young guys will learn. We'll take some lumps this season but we'll be building to sustainable success.

In short, my expectations changed from March to now.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

The Equalizer

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2021, 11:30:43 AM »
My view is that our floor for this season is that we should be no worse than we were last season--~.500 overall, and at worst 9-11 in the Big East. 

First, stop making mental comparisons about Shaka's first-year performance to a projected "what could have been" had Carton and Garcia stuck around another year.  Here's what is reasonable: compare it to the actual performance that Wojo delivered with Carton and Garcia as newcomers, and then ask if Shaka should be expected to routinely duplicate that? 

Second, for all the complaints about lack of experience, we replaced our most experienced players (Koby, Jamal and Theo) with four other experienced players (Kur, Morsell, OMP, and Kolek). Compared to last year, we're not lacking experience.  And shouldn't we expect Shaka's experienced recruits to be at minimum equal to what Wojo's did last year?  Again, why would we expect a step backward?

Third, many keep arguing that these players hadn't played together before, but that's a recycled Projo argument. Nobody gave Wojo a pass on this. Every team takes in freshmen and transfers, and a good coach should get them playing together by the time the season starts, and to continue to improve over the course of the year.



LAZER

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2021, 11:39:34 AM »
I think there's a difference between where we were at the beginning of the offseason and where we are now. When Shaka was hired,  it would have been reasonable to expect an NCAAT appearance. He could have focused on keeping the better pieces of the roster and gone out and gotten a bunch of top transfers. That's what UNC, Texas, and Indiana did.  It's a viable win now strategy though it is harder to sustain over multiple seasons.

Shaka chose a different path. He let most of the roster go elsewhere and filled his team with freshmen and sophomores who have yet to accomplish much (or anything at all in most cases)  at the collegiate level but show promise. He topped it off with two senior transfers who aren't superstars but will establish the blueprint of a defensive culture that the young guys will learn. We'll take some lumps this season but we'll be building to sustainable success.

In short, my expectations changed from March to now.
Happy to take the lumps, if there is some success in recruiting.  I have concerns that Shaka's recruiting success will be much closer to what Crean, Buzz, and Wojo did vs what Shaka did at Texas.

Pakuni

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Re: Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2021, 11:40:21 AM »
No passes here.
I don't have lofty expectations by any stretch, but if he can't meet lowered expectations (and by that I mean some form of postseason play), then it's not a great sign.
The idea we should be satisfied with the kind of season that got the last guy fired, or even worse, seems antithetical to Marquette's aspirations.
 

 

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