Sorry no pass for Shaka this season....

[The Sultan]

I think a lot of people here are going to be disappointed at the end of the year.

[Pakuni]

I think a lot of people here are going to be disappointed at the end of the year.

Par for the course.

[rocky_warrior]

He could have focused on keeping the better pieces of the roster and gone out and gotten a bunch of top transfers. That's what UNC, Texas, and Indiana did.  It's a viable win now strategy though it is harder to sustain over multiple seasons.

Is it really harder to sustain?  Don't all coaches (new or old) at the end of the season have to try to keep their best pieces around and then try to get some good recruits and top transfers?  It's kinda the new normal in NCAAB 2021.

I get that Shaka may have wanted buy-in, and maybe he even really wanted everyone to stay.  But it is a disappointing that MU had to push the reset button this offseason with the roster.

I think a lot of people here are going to be disappointed at the end of the year.

Hey, I'm disappointed now!

[Its DJOver]

What a silly thread.  All you have to do is look at some of the other's that the OP has started to get a feel for the quality of content that will ensue.   My inner conspiracy theorist thinks it's just a burner for one of the mods used to stir the pot every once and a while.

[Pakuni]

What a silly thread.  All you have to do is look at some of the other's that the OP has started to get a feel for the quality of content that will ensue.   My inner conspiracy theorist thinks it's just a burner for one of the mods used to stir the pot every once and a while.

Discussing expectations for the upcoming season is "silly?"
Huh.

[Its DJOver]

Discussing expectations for the upcoming season is "silly?"
Huh.

Starting a thread saying that year one under a new coach after 8 players left, having 9 underclassmen is "win now" territory.   Yea, I think that's silly.  This is kinda what he does, start a thread with a take just hot enough to not make it obvious you're a troll, usually with a rant about 3 times longer than necessary to convey the message, and then never post on that thread again. Just looking through his history for 5 minutes, of his last 10 threads started, he has more than one post in exactly one of them. 

[tower912]

So he vents his spleen and gets out.  Meh.  This thread was going to happen eventually.   And it is absolutely fair to discuss expectations.   More to the point, when have we NOT discussed expectations?

[Its DJOver]

So he vents his spleen and gets out.  Meh.  This thread was going to happen eventually.   And it is absolutely fair to discuss expectations.   More to the point, when have we NOT discussed expectations?

I'm not judging or anything, any level of fandom should be supported, it's just when you see who the author of a thread is, you kinda know what's gonna be in it.

Tower starts a thread and there's a pun in the title.  MU just played a game.
TAMU starts a thread.  Detailed analysis of some statistic.
Herman starts a thread.  Some loose connection to MU that probably didn't warrant it's own thread (do we really need a separate thread for Ellis' football highlights?)
duanewade starts a thread, I know I'm gonna have to put the monitor on the ceiling so I can still read it when I'm rolling my eyes. 

[Pakuni]

Starting a thread saying that year one under a new coach after 8 players left, having 9 underclassmen is "win now" territory.   Yea, I think that's silly.  This is kinda what he does, start a thread with a take just hot enough to not make it obvious you're a troll, usually with a rant about 3 times longer than necessary to convey the message, and then never post on that thread again. Just looking through his history for 5 minutes, of his last 10 threads started, he has more than one post in exactly one of them.

I mean, who assembled the roster? You're basically saying Shaka should be given a pass because the roster he put together can't be expected to compete. Now who's being silly?

You can disagree with his conclusion and "win now" stuff, but discussing what should be the reasonable expectations for the season ahead seems just about the least silly thing that happens on Scoop.
Would you prefer more green weenies, haikus and ainas?

[Its DJOver]

I mean, who assembled the roster? You're basically saying Shaka should be given a pass because the roster he put together can't be expected to compete. Now who's being silly?

You can disagree with his conclusion and "win now" stuff, but discussing what should be the reasonable expectations for the season ahead seems just about the least silly thing that happens on Scoop.
Would you prefer more green weenies, haikus and ainas?

Given the way he assembled the roster, making it very clear that he did not elect to pursue a "win now" strategy, and rather a bring in mostly young talent and let them develop together strategy, yes I do think he should get a pass year 1.

[warriorchick]

Why do you guys insist on feeding the troll? 

[Hards Alumni]

Why do you guys insist on feeding the troll?

+1

[The Equalizer]

I'm not judging or anything, any level of fandom should be supported, it's just when you see who the author of a thread is, you kinda know what's gonna be in it.

But it's a lazy response to ignore the argument and immediately jump to an ad hominem attack on the poster.

Fundamentally, he makes a good point. Many are sandbagging now so they can feel satisfied that regardless of where we wind up, the end result will be "above expectations." 

The question that he puts on trial: If Wojo's combination of recruiting and coaching gave us a .500 record and warranted dismissal, how can you reasonably expect Shaka to underperform that? 

[Its DJOver]

But it's a lazy response to ignore the argument and immediately jump to an ad hominem attack on the poster.

Fundamentally, he makes a good point. Many are sandbagging now so they can feel satisfied that regardless of where we wind up, the end result will be "above expectations." 

The question that he puts on trial: If Wojo's combination of recruiting and coaching gave us a .500 record and warranted dismissal, how can you reasonably expect Shaka to underperform that?

Did you read the OP? He does not make good points.  Let me summarize for you.  Because Kentucky wins with Freshman, our underclassmen should be able to win too.  The upside of the walk-on.  If we don't get a bid this year, Shaka will have been a bad hire.  If Shaka doesn't land 1 recruit we should have hired someone else.  Those are well into hot take territory and bordering on troll level.

[MU82]

82

I said when Shaka was hired that there was no free pass for him.

Duly noted, Goose. Thanks!

[tower912]

The OP is who he is.  That does not mean the issue shouldn't be discussed.

[The Sultan]

The question that he puts on trial: If Wojo's combination of recruiting and coaching gave us a .500 record and warranted dismissal, how can you reasonably expect Shaka to underperform that? 

Because outside of a couple graduate transfers, they are pretty young. 

Look, I am not sure if in the end they are going to be worse than last year, but I am expecting improvement throughout the year.  (Which is generally the opposite directions of Wojo's teams.)  If in the end they ARE worse record wise, but are trending in the right direction, I am fine with that.

An NCAA bid would be fantastic.  But IMO that would way exceed what I am expecting.

I am expecting way more next year and the year after.

[mileskishnish72]

I'm not judging or anything, any level of fandom should be supported, it's just when you see who the author of a thread is, you kinda know what's gonna be in it.

Tower starts a thread and there's a pun in the title.  MU just played a game.
TAMU starts a thread.  Detailed analysis of some statistic.
Herman starts a thread.  Some loose connection to MU that probably didn't warrant it's own thread (do we really need a separate thread for Ellis' football highlights?)
duanewade starts a thread, I know I'm gonna have to put the monitor on the ceiling so I can still read it when I'm rolling my eyes.

Funny stuff, Over.

[dad's couch]

So he vents his spleen and gets out.  Meh.  This thread was going to happen eventually.   And it is absolutely fair to discuss expectations.   More to the point, when have we NOT discussed expectations?

Texas lost 2 stars to the NBA draft, 5 to the transfer portal and its entire recruiting class that Shaka amassed. And yet they are a pre season top10 maybe 5. So far Beard's recruiting has been really good with a 5 star in 22. Beard has owned the portal at Tech and now Texas. I think he's in for long term success.

Shaka decided to go with 9 freshmen along with 3 seniors. Figure the odds that 3 will transfer and we lose the 3 seniors. That's 6 of 13. Another six coming in so in essence another rebuild, especially if one or two of our top players leave.

The new normal is winning the portal which means worry about the season ahead of you.

[tower912]

Good for them.   

When I set my personal expectations for a team, I take Marquette off the front of the jersey.   What would I expect the results to be for this roster if the jersey said anything other than Marquette.   That served me pretty well under Wojo.
   Looking at this roster as objectively as I can, I do not have high expectations.   Too much youth.   Too few proven scorers.   I would expect any roster so composed to struggle.
   The keys for me will be improvement, how many return, and what recruits are landed.

[Pakuni]

Given the way he assembled the roster, making it very clear that he did not elect to pursue a "win now" strategy, and rather a bring in mostly young talent and let them develop together strategy, yes I do think he should get a pass year 1.

Yeah, the whole "developing young talent" thing kind of goes out the window when you bring in two grad transfers and continue to pursue others, even this month. Does it make sense for a coach whose mission is to develop young talen to be trying to land Cedric Russell in mid-July?  What does adding Russell do to help the "develop young talent together" strategy?
I believe Shaka wants to win, and win now, and that's why he was going after Russell and others like him. And you're making excuses for him before the season even begins.

[Hards Alumni]

I guess this is the year we find out how much 'playing together for years' actually matters, aina?

[Its DJOver]

Yeah, the whole "developing young talent" thing kind of goes out the window when you bring in two grad transfers and continue to pursue others, even this month. Does it make sense for a coach whose mission is to develop young talen to be trying to land Cedric Russell in mid-July?  What does adding Russell do to help the "develop young talent together" strategy?
I believe Shaka wants to win, and win now, and that's why he was going after Russell and others like him. And you're making excuses for him before the season even begins.

Until you look at what the likely roles of those grad transfers will be.  If Shaka had landed Carr and Kofi, my expectations would be much different.  Shaka went out and got 2 defensive players that are fairly limited on the offensive end.  Combine that with one top 100 incoming freshman (per 247), and I don't see much success this year, but instead the potential for success in the following years, I don't see that as making excuses, I see that as having realistic expectations given the quality and experience currently on the roster.

[MU82]

Many are sandbagging now so they can feel satisfied that regardless of where we wind up, the end result will be "above expectations."

Maybe "many" are doing this, but I know that I'm not "sandbagging."

I think for some of us, it's about the definition of "free pass."

If we improve significantly from November to March, both as a team and as individual players, and if our culture has noticeably changed from Wojo-soft to Buzz-tough (for lack of better terms), I will consider the season a success, regardless of our record.

In my view, me considering that a success does not amount to a "free pass."

Because if we are a hot mess all season, if we don't improve noticeably, if it just looks like Wojo 2.0 out there, Shaka will not get a "free pass" from me.

Although for me, as with most (if not all) other Scoopers, there's no real "or else" to that lack of a free pass. I mean, what? I'm gonna make negative comments on Scoop? I'm gonna put him "on notice"? Oh no!

I'm a pretty big optimist, but I'm also a realist. Most of us think Buzz is a darn good coach, but he didn't go to the NCAAs his first two seasons at either Va Tech or TAMU. Wright didn't his first 3 seasons at Nova. Crean didn't his first seasons at Marquette, Indiana or Georgia. Beard, to whom Shaka will be compared endlessly by the fine folks of Texas, didn't do squat his first season at Texas Tech. The Great Porter Moser didn't get to the NCAA tournament his first 13 seasons as a head coach. Etc, etc, etc. So we'll see.

After coaching Texas to a 6-seed with Barnes' players his first year there (and losing in the first round), Shaka went 11-22 his next season.

11-22!

But he's got to get to the NCAA tournament this season at Marquette or it'll be considered a failure ... and anybody who disagrees is giving him a "free pass"?

I can't agree with that, but others can knock themselves out.

[Pakuni]

Until you look at what the likely roles of those grad transfers will be.  If Shaka had landed Carr and Kofi, my expectations would be much different.  Shaka went out and got 2 defensive players that are fairly limited on the offensive end.

I guess if you're willing to believe that Shaka sold Morsell and Kuath on the idea that they were coming here as mentors with limited playing time, I'd buy it. But I imagine it's more likely he recruited them with the promise of significant playing opportunities, not just to teach a bunch of freshmen the ropes.