What's the word on Garcia?

[willie warrior]

Maybe not in this particular thread but the "We can't fire Wojo because we'll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild" has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

Lenny just nailed it.

[The Sultan]

It's not a false choice. It's one of 4 possibilities that came with firing Wojo. A)We could have fired Wojo and kept both Cartonk and Garcia. B)We could have fired Wojo and kept Carton and lost Garcia. C) We could have fired Wojo and kept Garcia but lost Carton. D) We could have fired Wojo and lost both.

Those were also the 4 possibilities if we kept Wojo.

His point (a valid one) was that firing Wojo and have it result in "D" was preferable to retaining Wojo regardless of whether it resulted in A,B,C or D.

I mean he literally said "If you made me choose between our current situation or another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson..."  How is that four possibilities???  He presented it as a binary choice.

And not only that, it's a complete strawman.  No one seems to be advocating for "another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson."  I think pretty much everyone here would rather have our current situation.

But I think a fair number of people would rather have Shaka/DJ/Dawson instead of our current situation.  And maybe that was never a possibility.  Who knows?  But that's not how Silent Verbal framed it.

[Uncle Rico]

I mean he literally said "If you made me choose between our current situation or another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson..."  How is that four possibilities???  He presented it as a binary choice.

And not only that, it's a complete strawman.  No one seems to be advocating for "another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson."  I think pretty much everyone here would rather have our current situation.

But I think a fair number of people would rather have Shaka/DJ/Dawson instead of our current situation.  And maybe that was never a possibility.  Who knows?  But that's not how Silent Verbal framed it.

I'm just assuming every thread is going to devolve into a Wojo thread like every thread during his tenure seemingly devolved into a thread of other former coaches.  At least it's a new variant.

[The Sultan]

Maybe not in this particular thread but the "We can't fire Wojo because we'll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild" has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

When have you seen a significant number of people last make that argument?  February or March maybe?

It's July.  Wojo's gone.  Time for you to move on.

[Pakuni]

Indiana's coach was also fired. Kansas had Mccormick, lightfoot, and wilson. Garcia is only clearly better than lightfoot.

You misunderstand. Those schools were in Dawson's final seven before he committed to Marquette, and most believe IU and MU were his final two. The argument that Dawson left now because "he always wanted to play for a blueblood" doesn't really make sense when you acknowledge that Dawson chose Marquette over bluebloods.

[Lennys Tap]

When have you seen a significant number of people last make that argument?  February or March maybe?

Those who were making those arguments in March (just before Wojo was canned) would be defending MU on that basis had he been retained. But if they want to rewrite
History on where they stood before the axe fell so be it.

[willie warrior]

When have you seen a significant number of people last make that argument?  February or March maybe?

It's July.  Wojo's gone.  Time for you to move on.

Sure glad that most of the Wojo-Dukiet worshippers have moved on, with nary a chirp about how they were wrongfully enamored with their boy.

[The Sultan]

Those who were making those arguments in March (just before Wojo was canned) would be defending MU on that basis had he been retained. But if they want to rewrite
History on where they stood before the axe fell so be it.

I'm not really sure that's the case, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Goose]

I was a DJ fan and not a Dawson fan. I thought Dawson was one trick pony and did not live up to being Mc D AA. I thought DJ was fun to watch, but frustrating when he was bad. I am looking ahead and think we will be in a far better place as a program a year from now and not losing sleep over those two leaving.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not really sure that's the case, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

I am (sure that is) but if you're having age related comprehension or memory issues there's probably a pill you can take.

[Uncle Rico]

I am (sure that is) but if you're having age related comprehension or memory issues there's probably a pill you can take.

And?  I'd have defended them keeping Wojo on a financial basis were he still here.  I'll readily admit it.  They didn't. 

I wish Shaka could have kept Dawson Garcia and think the team and program would have been better had they.  They didn't.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the hire but feel the results have been underwhelming thus far.

Why this has devolved into a projo, nojo argument is a matter of d1ck measuring that populates message boards.

[Pakuni]

I was a DJ fan and not a Dawson fan. I thought Dawson was one trick pony and did not live up to being Mc D AA. I thought DJ was fun to watch, but frustrating when he was bad. I am looking ahead and think we will be in a far better place as a program a year from now and not losing sleep over those two leaving.

Not sure what your expectations for a McDonald's All American are, but only three from last year's class were responsible for more win shares last year than Dawson (Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley and Jalen Suggs). That's three out of the 21 who went to college.
Only five out of the 21 scored more points per game than Dawson (Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Sharife Cooper and Josh Christopher).

Your expectations are your expectations, but it's hard to objectively say Dawson underperformed as a McDonald's All American last year. Especially when you consider that he was below nearly every one of those guys in the class rankings.

[Goose]

Pakuni

I was not overly impressed with Garcia as a whole, Mc D AA or not. I thought he had one move by the basket and hoisted three point shots. I thought he had a nice season but not one that had me drooling to see what next season would bring. Nothing against the kid and I hope he makes $300 million down the road.

[Pakuni]

Those who were making those arguments in March (just before Wojo was canned) would be defending MU on that basis had he been retained. But if they want to rewrite
History on where they stood before the axe fell so be it.

Your argument is now speculation on what you believe someone would have said, if a thing that never happened did in fact happen.
And they're the ones re-wrirtng history?

[21Jumpstreet]

I was a DJ fan and not a Dawson fan. I thought Dawson was one trick pony and did not live up to being Mc D AA. I thought DJ was fun to watch, but frustrating when he was bad. I am looking ahead and think we will be in a far better place as a program a year from now and not losing sleep over those two leaving.

Fully agree

[rocket surgeon]

Pakuni

I was not overly impressed with Garcia as a whole, Mc D AA or not. I thought he had one move by the basket and hoisted three point shots. I thought he had a nice season but not one that had me drooling to see what next season would bring. Nothing against the kid and I hope he makes $300 million down the road.

well stated goose guy.  i see a lot of frankie k in him and if not for wisky's nice tourny runs, i'm not sure he would have gone that high in the draft.  nice players, but more difficult to find the right fit.  i thought stevo had it in new york and he was a really good shooter. 

[The Sultan]

well stated goose guy.  i see a lot of frankie k in him and if not for wisky's nice tourny runs, i'm not sure he would have gone that high in the draft.  nice players, but more difficult to find the right fit.  i thought stevo had it in new york and he was a really good shooter. 

Frank Kaminsky was a first team all American and was the consensus national player of the year.  If Dawson Garcia is anywhere near that, his loss will be enormous.

But he is nowhere near Frank Kaminsky at this point.

[rocket surgeon]

Frank Kaminsky was a first team all American and was the consensus national player of the year.  If Dawson Garcia is anywhere near that, his loss will be enormous.

But he is nowhere near Frank Kaminsky at this point.

  i'm comparing their games.  yes frankie had a great college career

[Spotcheck Billy]

  i'm comparing their games.  yes frankie had a great college career

Kaminsky ended his college career very well but if I recall his 1st 2 years were not good.

[Uncle Rico]

well stated goose guy.  i see a lot of frankie k in him and if not for wisky's nice tourny runs, i'm not sure he would have gone that high in the draft.  nice players, but more difficult to find the right fit.  i thought stevo had it in new york and he was a really good shooter.

Sign me up for a team full of Kaminsky's that get over drafted because of great college careers

[brewcity77]

But he is nowhere near Frank Kaminsky at this point.

If you mean nowhere near NBA bench player and former NPOY Frank Kaminsky as a college freshmen, you're right, Dawson is nowhere near that.

But if you mean freshman year Kaminsky who averaged 1.8 ppg & 1.4 rpg in 7.7 mpg...well, he's nowhere near that either but in a vastly different way.

[Viper]

Sign me up for a team full of Kaminsky's that get over drafted because of great college careers

i hear Frankie does a nice job taking care of Jae's laundry.

[drbob]

I am with you Goose.  Was not impressed with Garcia last year considering all the hype the signing got.  Lacks athleticism speed and hops.  defense suspect due to above shortcomings. Needs to develop a much more consistent shot . Nice college player but I think upside is limited.

[Uncle Rico]

i hear Frankie does a nice job taking care of Jae's laundry.

Don't care.  I'd take a team full of guys like him if they can match his college career

[NickelDimer]

Pakuni

I was not overly impressed with Garcia as a whole, Mc D AA or not. I thought he had one move by the basket and hoisted three point shots. I thought he had a nice season but not one that had me drooling to see what next season would bring. Nothing against the kid and I hope he makes $300 million down the road.

Yep totally agree. DJ was a bigger loss albeit an expected one. Losing JL would've been a bigger loss than both.