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Author Topic: What's the word on Garcia?  (Read 162234 times)

JWags85

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1025 on: July 13, 2021, 12:30:41 PM »
I rather have Morsell. The article on him said he plays hard every minute. I do not know for sure why Carton changed his mind about staying, but I can imagine Shaka telling him he was not going to play, if gave the same effort he gave last season. I was disappointed that Garcia left, but I feel the team was better off without Carton.

This is wild and unfair speculation crafted to fit a narrative that a very good player who left somehow had a bad attitude or work ethic…capped off with a completely incorrect statement.  Save that nonsense for Buckyville

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1026 on: July 13, 2021, 01:27:00 PM »
You're not wrong, but I don't recall such nonchalant responses when certain other quality players' departed.

Simply stating that it's tough to see Dawson and DJ go, and we're a lesser team because of it, has nothing to do with the Wojo era or not hoping for the best from the Shaka era. It's unfortunate that some can only view it through those lenses, rather than take it for what it is.

When the Hausers left, we were expected to be a top-10 team the following season.  When Vander left, we were expected to be a tournament team.  Both naturally created a wave of emotions for fans when they left (and all were very unexpected).  DJ and Dawson both made it known that they could very well stay at MU for only one season (in order to pursue professional opportunities).  The team last year, with Dawson and DJ, was not only not good enough to be a tournament team, but the team spiraled downwards as the season went on.  That is not because of Dawson and/or DJ individually, but many, like myself, are simply looking to turn the page and move past not just last year, but the last few years in general. 

MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1027 on: July 13, 2021, 01:37:30 PM »
Frankly, I'm surprised that some Scoopers are willing to let Lewis and Elliott stick around for another year.

Lewis gave Wojo his biggest win of last season. I would think that alone would suggest that Justin has to go ... lest he be cancerous to Shaka's culture.

And Elliott improved under Wojo, which isn't allowed and could really crush Shaka's culture, so he's gotta go!
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Stretchdeltsig

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1028 on: July 13, 2021, 04:28:30 PM »
Yep. And this didn't even touch on all the people in the various conference offices and NCAA offices who have been getting rich on the backs of the athletes for years.

MU82 needs to be banned.

Silent Verbal

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1029 on: July 13, 2021, 04:29:04 PM »
It was always speculated on here that DJ was only going to stay at MU for one year before going pro, and sure enough, that happened.  Those who followed Dawson’s recruitment closely know he wanted to go to a blue blood all along; the only reason he didn’t end up at UNC originally was they got a commitment from a big who was their first choice and he decided to look elsewhere.  And guess what?  Now he’s at UNC, just a year later than planned.

It’s very possible that neither of those guys would be at MU this year, even if Wojo was still the coach, and were that to be the case, Marquette fans would really be holding a bag of sh!t right now.  Thankfully, the contents of that bag ended up on Wojo’s forehead, and here we are.

If you made me choose between our current situation or another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson and then see what happens after March 2022, I’d take our current situation every time.  If one less year of DJ and Dawson is the sacrifice the program had to make in order to move on from Wojo’s reign of terror, so be it.

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1030 on: July 13, 2021, 04:33:03 PM »
It was always speculated on here that DJ was only going to stay at MU for one year before going pro, and sure enough, that happened. Those who followed Dawson’s recruitment closely know he wanted to go to a blue blood all along; the only reason he didn’t end up at UNC originally was they got a commitment from a big who was their first choice and he decided to look elsewhere.  And guess what?  Now he’s at UNC, just a year later than planned.

But Kansas and Indiana were in his final 7, so ...
Why are people trying so hard to convince themselves losing Dawson no matta?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1031 on: July 13, 2021, 04:33:49 PM »
It was always speculated on here that DJ was only going to stay at MU for one year before going pro, and sure enough, that happened.  Those who followed Dawson’s recruitment closely know he wanted to go to a blue blood all along; the only reason he didn’t end up at UNC originally was they got a commitment from a big who was their first choice and he decided to look elsewhere.  And guess what?  Now he’s at UNC, just a year later than planned.

It’s very possible that neither of those guys would be at MU this year, even if Wojo was still the coach, and were that to be the case, Marquette fans would really be holding a bag of sh!t right now.  Thankfully, the contents of that bag ended up on Wojo’s forehead, and here we are.

If you made me choose between our current situation or another season of Wojo/DJ/Dawson and then see what happens after March 2022, I’d take our current situation every time.  If one less year of DJ and Dawson is the sacrifice the program had to make in order to move on from Wojo’s reign of terror, so be it.


You are presenting something as a black and white that really isn't.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1032 on: July 13, 2021, 05:26:59 PM »
MU82 needs to be banned.

What exactly about the post you quoted is ban worthy?
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Newsdreams

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1033 on: July 13, 2021, 05:58:02 PM »
Goal is National Championship

Lennys Tap

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1034 on: July 13, 2021, 06:29:31 PM »

You are presenting something as a black and white that really isn't.

How is Silent presenting the situation as black and white? He talks about “speculation” (that was pretty universally accepted), says based on speculation that his next point is “very possible” and then closes with a hypothetical based on said speculation and possibility.

His scenario is presented as opinion and logic given what we know and what we’ve been told. I think he nails it.

MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1035 on: July 13, 2021, 07:06:11 PM »
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1036 on: July 13, 2021, 07:28:20 PM »
How is Silent presenting the situation as black and white? He talks about “speculation” (that was pretty universally accepted), says based on speculation that his next point is “very possible” and then closes with a hypothetical based on said speculation and possibility.

His scenario is presented as opinion and logic given what we know and what we’ve been told. I think he nails it.

I think because keeping Garcia/Carton and getting Shaka wasn't an either/or situation.

The discussion has been about the impact of not retaining Carton and Dawson. No one has made an argument that we should have kept Wojo in order to keep DJ/Dawson. Everyone agrees that Wojo needed to be fired. So setting up a false choice between keeping Wojo and DJ Dawson  and hiring Shaka and losing them isn't logical. It's actually a combination of two logical fallacies.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1037 on: July 13, 2021, 07:43:11 PM »
No one has made an argument that we should have kept Wojo in order to keep DJ/Dawson.

Maybe not in this particular thread but the “We can’t fire Wojo because we’ll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild” has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1038 on: July 13, 2021, 07:46:33 PM »
Maybe not in this particular thread but the “We can’t fire Wojo because we’ll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild” has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

Absolutely correct and it was asinine and totally short sighted. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 07:48:14 PM by HutchwasClutch »

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1039 on: July 13, 2021, 08:01:52 PM »
Maybe not in this particular thread but the “We can’t fire Wojo because we’ll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild” has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

That ship has sailed, though.  If anyone was still arguing Marquette should have kept Wojo to keep those guys and not rebuild, then it would be relevant. 

Listen, that was my thinking because I thought they’d end up hiring Porter Moser or a mid-major guy meaning a full rebuild and definite defections.  Those expectations changed when Shaka was hired.  Plus, he originally offered Garcia out of HS. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 08:03:25 PM by Uncle Rico »
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1040 on: July 13, 2021, 08:34:40 PM »
Frankly, I'm surprised that some Scoopers are willing to let Lewis and Elliott stick around for another year.

Lewis gave Wojo his biggest win of last season. I would think that alone would suggest that Justin has to go ... lest he be cancerous to Shaka's culture.

And Elliott improved under Wojo, which isn't allowed and could really crush Shaka's culture, so he's gotta go!

I’m on your side 82 and your schtick is getting old.  Can’t you just stop for a couple days?  We all get your point.

Its DJOver

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1041 on: July 13, 2021, 08:36:46 PM »
I remember it being not exactly "we can't fire Wojo because they'll be a mass exodus", and more "if we do fire Wojo, they'll be a mass exodus".  We did, there was, and we will in all likelyhood be worse in 21-22 because of it.  Whether or not we'll be better in the long run will be unknown for years.

5 to 7 to be exact.

BallBoy

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1042 on: July 13, 2021, 08:37:28 PM »
Maybe not in this particular thread but the “We can’t fire Wojo because we’ll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild” has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

If MU didn’t hire Shaka we could be in a completely different situation.  Firing Wojo and landing on another mediocre assistant would have been very disastrous. At the end of the day and just like any other coaching change year our roster had tremendous turnover and we needed a strong coach to bring in good talent.


TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1043 on: July 13, 2021, 08:46:39 PM »
Maybe not in this particular thread but the “We can’t fire Wojo because we’ll lose DJ/Dawson/Lewis/our recruits and have to start all over again with a major rebuild” has been a common one made by the projos and sosojos on Scoop for a long time.

But again, this isn't a discussion about whether or not we should have fired Wojo. It's a discussion about what the impact of losing Garcia and Carton is.

You and I also remember it differently. Earlier in Wojo's tenure when there was some hope that he could pan out there was some who brought up the possibility of a rebuild as a reason to keep Wojo. I personally never did, I agree with Hutchwas that doing that is incredibly short-sighted. But at the end of Wojo's tenure? There may have been some who said that there will be a rebuild like DJOs said but I don't remember anyone saying that we shouldn't fire him because there would be a rebuild. For a brief two weeks, all of Scoop was united and it was a thing of beauty.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1044 on: July 13, 2021, 08:53:12 PM »
Firing Wojo and landing on another mediocre assistant would have been very disastrous.

Nobody would disagree that hiring another mediocre assistant (or a crappy head coach) would have been bad. Of course you don’t know whether he’ll be good (KO, Crean, Buzz) or bad (Dukiet, Deane, Wojo) for at least a little while.

You want the definition of “very disastrous” though? Hiring a mediocre assistant who turns out to be a bad head coach because you’re afraid the next guy might be bad too.

jfp61

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1045 on: July 13, 2021, 09:11:29 PM »
But Kansas and Indiana were in his final 7, so ...
Why are people trying so hard to convince themselves losing Dawson no matta?
Indiana's coach was also fired. Kansas had Mccormick, lightfoot, and wilson. Garcia is only clearly better than lightfoot.

I don't think dawson was leaving no matter what, I do think that after shaka came he wouldnt be in an MU uniform from the start. He overestimated his draft stock because his defense is obsolete.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1046 on: July 13, 2021, 09:41:29 PM »
How is Silent presenting the situation as black and white? He talks about “speculation” (that was pretty universally accepted), says based on speculation that his next point is “very possible” and then closes with a hypothetical based on said speculation and possibility.

His scenario is presented as opinion and logic given what we know and what we’ve been told. I think he nails it.

Here is what he said.

“If one less year of DJ and Dawson is the sacrifice the program had to make in order to move on from Wojo’s reign of terror, so be it.”

That’s a false choice. We could have fired Wojo AND kept Garcia and Carton. That would have been nice!

But since they didn’t want to be here, they left. And that’s fine too.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1047 on: July 13, 2021, 10:04:09 PM »
Here is what he said.

“If one less year of DJ and Dawson is the sacrifice the program had to make in order to move on from Wojo’s reign of terror, so be it.”

That’s a false choice. We could have fired Wojo AND kept Garcia and Carton. That would have been nice!

But since they didn’t want to be here, they left. And that’s fine too.

It’s not a false choice. It’s one of 4 possibilities that came with firing Wojo. A)We could have fired Wojo and kept both Cartonk and Garcia. B)We could have fired Wojo and kept Carton and lost Garcia. C) We could have fired Wojo and kept Garcia but lost Carton. D) We could have fired Wojo and lost both.

Those were also the 4 possibilities if we kept Wojo.

His point (a valid one) was that firing Wojo and have it result in “D” was preferable to retaining Wojo regardless of whether it resulted in A,B,C or D.



MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1048 on: July 13, 2021, 10:08:52 PM »
I’m on your side 82 and your schtick is getting old.  Can’t you just stop for a couple days?  We all get your point.

Old Schtick is my aftershave, too.

But your point is duly noted.

The horse was beaten to death in this thread several pages ago, then brought back to life, then beaten to death again, then resuscitated again, lather rinse repeat And it appears no end is in sight.

In other words ... Scoop!

So I'll hang up and listen now. Toodles!
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1049 on: July 13, 2021, 11:11:04 PM »
Nvm
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 11:41:46 PM by TAMU Eagle »
TAMU

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