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Author Topic: What's the word on Garcia?  (Read 82908 times)

tower912

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1100 on: July 15, 2021, 01:01:41 PM »
Well said.    Garcia had a very good freshman year by any measure.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Hards_Alumni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1101 on: July 15, 2021, 01:24:31 PM »
I understand some of flak towards Garcia. He's gone and a lot of you want to minimalize what he did. I thought he was terrific as a freshman. His biggest weakness was a lack of strength. Which is understandable considering he didn't come on campus until September. Meanwhile our current batch of FR have been working with Todd since June. Given a Summer working with a NCAA strength and conditioning coach would greatly improve his physical conditioning/strength. If not. Then why have the team have strenuous workouts in the summer? Dawson is probably on the UNC campus or heading there shortly. You'll see a different physical specimen come November and it will be seen in his play. He was a big, big, loss. For comparison. OMP had 41 rebs and 54 points for THE ENTIRE YEAR. That's averaging 10 minutes a game. For those who have seen Joplin play last year. Do you think he had the physical characteristics to play in the BE at the end of his HS career? I don't. But with a summer working out. Hopefully that will change.

Spot on.

Nukem2

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1102 on: July 15, 2021, 01:58:07 PM »
Dawson has more issues than just strength.  His measurables taken at the G League Camp last month demonstrate that.  His vertical is low as we saw first hand as he had his shot blocked by guards last season.  His reach is not much for his height. His quickness in the cone drills was very low.  His hand size is small.  He was pretty much in the bottom quarter of that camp group in almost  every category tested other than his height (he was measured at 6’10.5” in shoes).  Bottom line is that he is not overly athletic or physically gifted other than that height.  But, he is a very skilled player with that height.  Will extra strength help?  Sure, but he has a lot more to work on to make it in the NBA.  Very good college guy, but the NBA is going to take a lot work over time for Dawson.  Wish him well.

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1103 on: July 15, 2021, 02:04:45 PM »
Dawson has more issues than just strength.  His measurables taken at the G League Camp last month demonstrate that.  His vertical is low as we saw first hand as he had his shot blocked by guards last season.  His reach is not much for his height. His quickness in the cone drills was very low.  His hand size is small.  He was pretty much in the bottom quarter of that camp group in almost  every category tested other than his height (he was measured at 6’10.5” in shoes).  Bottom line is that he is not overly athletic or physically gifted other than that height.  But, he is a very skilled player with that height.  Will extra strength help?  Sure, but he has a lot more to work on to make it in the NBA.  Very good college guy, but the NBA is going to take a lot work over time for Dawson.  Wish him well.

I'm not terribly concerned about his NBA future.
I'm disappointed that Marquette will be without a kid who - even you admit - is a very good college player. Trying to minimize that loss by downplaying his NBA prospects doesn't really make sense.

Nukem2

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1104 on: July 15, 2021, 02:17:15 PM »
I'm not terribly concerned about his NBA future.
I'm disappointed that Marquette will be without a kid who - even you admit - is a very good college player. Trying to minimize that loss by downplaying his NBA prospects doesn't really make sense.
I agree that we certainly will miss Dawson.  I was just responding to the strength comment.  As good as he was as a frosh, he still has a lot of work to do whether it’s in college or the pros.

Goose

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1105 on: July 15, 2021, 02:34:53 PM »
I would be saying the exact same about Garcia had he returned.

4everwarriors

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1106 on: July 15, 2021, 02:51:52 PM »
Don't give no chit 'bout Garcia, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

tower912

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1107 on: July 15, 2021, 02:52:41 PM »
I am sure he feels the same about you.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1108 on: July 15, 2021, 02:52:45 PM »
Don't give no chit 'bout Garcia, hey?

You must.  You’ve posted in this thread a few times saying that
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

TAMU Eagle

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1109 on: July 15, 2021, 02:59:26 PM »
TAMU

Not picking on your word, but disagree that a guy with one move around the basket, limited jumping ability and somewhat soft is a huge talent. Definitely not going to argue about Garcia, the player. As a fan, I was disappointed in what I saw from him last season.

I guess I'm impressed that a guy with only one move around the basket, limited jumping ability, and is somewhat soft put up an efficient 13 points and 6.6 rebounds a game playing against high majors most nights. He must have been pretty skilled to overcome those deficiencies.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1110 on: July 15, 2021, 02:59:43 PM »
I would be saying the exact same about Garcia had he returned.

You don't believe he would have improved -- perhaps significantly -- under a coach you have trumpeted for months as great at developing (as well as acquiring) talent?

And BTW, I agree with you that Carton was a bigger loss. I think he would have been one of the best players in the BE this season. I was thrilled when it looked like he not only was coming back but was very enthusiastic about it. Someday, I'd love to hear the truth of what happened (as opposed to Scoop speculation) to make him go from actually trying to recruit players to join him at Marquette for Year 1 under Shaka to saying adios.

Not saying this is you, Goose, but one problem I've had with this entire discussion is that some folks don't seem to realize that college athletes generally improve over time. They look at what Garcia and/or Carton did last season under Wojo and say, "Meh ... we don't need that." I mean, Jimmy Butler became a pretty darn good basketball player. So did Acker. So did Markus. So did Sam. So did (fill in the blank with the name of a first-year MU player who was considerably better as a second-year player).

Whatevs. They're gone and life goes on. Scoop just mystifies me sometimes.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

tower912

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1111 on: July 15, 2021, 03:03:47 PM »
I guess I'm impressed that a guy with only one move around the basket, limited jumping ability, and is somewhat soft put up an efficient 13 points and 6.6 rebounds a game playing against high majors most nights. He must have been pretty skilled to overcome those deficiencies.
It will be a victory if any of our first year bigs or Osa average 13-6.  Lewis, I can see.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1112 on: July 15, 2021, 03:06:51 PM »
It will be a victory if any of our first year bigs or Osa average 13-6.  Lewis, I can see.

I’m very excited to see Justin Lewis as a sophomore with a full off-season.  Maybe we need to focus on the guys coming back and all move forward?
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

tower912

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1113 on: July 15, 2021, 03:10:20 PM »
I think Lewis will be crucial.   Good luck with the second part.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Goose

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1114 on: July 15, 2021, 03:12:26 PM »
MU82

Sure, Dawson may improve a great deal over the next couple of years and I hope he does. I think he has plenty room for improvement. As for trumpeting player improvement with Shaka, I do not believe I ever said that. If I did, I was blitzed because I have no idea if Shaka has long history of making guys better. Trumpeted his recruiting and style of play for months and stick with that belief.

As noted in previous posts, I am not happy that Garcia left but life goes on. Thought he was a nice player and wish him well.

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1115 on: July 15, 2021, 03:14:20 PM »
I’m very excited to see Justin Lewis as a sophomore with a full off-season.  Maybe we need to focus on the guys coming back and all move forward?


Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1116 on: July 15, 2021, 03:43:23 PM »
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Hards_Alumni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1117 on: July 15, 2021, 05:23:53 PM »
I guess I'm impressed that a guy with only one move around the basket, limited jumping ability, and is somewhat soft put up an efficient 13 points and 6.6 rebounds a game playing against high majors most nights. He must have been pretty skilled to overcome those deficiencies.

Exactly.  He put up numbers comparable to Davante Gardner's senior year... and with no one but DJ Carton to draw defenders away from him.

As a Freshman.  People here trashing Dawson's performance last year certainly are big fans of the Davante's.

brewcity77

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1118 on: July 15, 2021, 05:25:27 PM »
I'm disappointed in the losses of Garcia and Carton for two sightly different but related reasons.

Garcia led the G League combine in scoring & still didn't get a NBA Combine invite. That clearly indicates his problems are on the defensive end. Offensively, he's great. He's efficient, can score at multiple levels, and was one of the best offensive freshmen in the country. But defensively he would've really benefited from a coach that will have put 6 bigs in the NBA draft the last 5 years once this year is done. Shaka is the exact kind of coach Garcia needs to get where he wants to go. Maybe Davis or someone else can get him there, but I'm not sure anyone in recent times is better at getting bigs to the NBA than Shaka. Seems a mistake to leave.

As far as Carton, he has all the ability and none of the discipline. His raw ability was a perfect fit for a guy like DeAndre Haynes that helped develop Zavier Simpson, Anthony Cowan, and Darryl Morsell. I think Carton would've thrived in this system in ways he never did under Wojo.

But alas, we are where we are. Best of luck, hope they find what they want elsewhere.
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He blocked me.

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1119 on: July 15, 2021, 05:51:55 PM »
As far as Carton, he has all the ability and none of the discipline. His raw ability was a perfect fit for a guy like DeAndre Haynes that helped develop Zavier Simpson, Anthony Cowan, and Darryl Morsell. I think Carton would've thrived in this system in ways he never did under Wojo.


Given how positively DJ (and even his mom) reacted to the hiring, I strongly suspect his decision to leave had nothing to do Shaka or Marquette. It may be just that he decided college wasn't for him, or was in a situation where he needed to provide for himself and his family, even if that means playing abroad.


MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1120 on: July 15, 2021, 07:53:39 PM »
MU82

Sure, Dawson may improve a great deal over the next couple of years and I hope he does. I think he has plenty room for improvement. As for trumpeting player improvement with Shaka, I do not believe I ever said that. If I did, I was blitzed because I have no idea if Shaka has long history of making guys better. Trumpeted his recruiting and style of play for months and stick with that belief.

As noted in previous posts, I am not happy that Garcia left but life goes on. Thought he was a nice player and wish him well.

Fair. Thanks for the answer. Have a nice night.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1121 on: July 15, 2021, 09:13:25 PM »


S   U   P   E   R   B   A   R

mileskishnish72

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1122 on: July 15, 2021, 09:31:51 PM »
I'm disappointed in the losses of Garcia and Carton for two sightly different but related reasons.

Garcia led the G League combine in scoring & still didn't get a NBA Combine invite. That clearly indicates his problems are on the defensive end. Offensively, he's great. He's efficient, can score at multiple levels, and was one of the best offensive freshmen in the country. But defensively he would've really benefited from a coach that will have put 6 bigs in the NBA draft the last 5 years once this year is done. Shaka is the exact kind of coach Garcia needs to get where he wants to go. Maybe Davis or someone else can get him there, but I'm not sure anyone in recent times is better at getting bigs to the NBA than Shaka. Seems a mistake to leave.

As far as Carton, he has all the ability and none of the discipline. His raw ability was a perfect fit for a guy like DeAndre Haynes that helped develop Zavier Simpson, Anthony Cowan, and Darryl Morsell. I think Carton would've thrived in this system in ways he never did under Wojo.

But alas, we are where we are. Best of luck, hope they find what they want elsewhere.

Good post, Brew.


The Lens

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1123 on: July 15, 2021, 11:27:10 PM »
Some guys see the grind as opportunity,
Some guys see the grind as work
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mug644

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #1124 on: July 16, 2021, 07:41:13 AM »
OT...

Some guys see the grind as opportunity,
Some guys see the grind as work

My wife sees tending the land around our house as gardening. I see it as yard work. As we get older, I've started advocating for a "transfer" to a condo-type set up.