Scott Drew v Wojo

[f/k/a humanlung]

Quite possibly the most ridiculous thread in Heisey history. Hard to believe, I'll concede. But quite possibly...

There are so many to choose from...

[muwarrior69]

Wojo is 9 months older than our "young coach" but the "young coach" has 5 more years of head coaching experience.

But our previous "young coach" was our second choice to our current "young coach" whom we would have hired which is the reason our previous "young coach" got 7 years head coaching experience in the first place so 9 months don't matter, but the 7 wasted years matters a lot.

[dgies9156]

Let's be realistic about the two situations:

1) Wojo walked into Marquette knowing his job was to rebuild and restart a fading glory program. Like it or not, Wojo was going to be measured by the quality of recruits he brought to play for Marquette, the number of times the team made the NCAA and the number of NCAA wins Marquette sustained in his tenure. Simply put, we expected him to rebuild us to where we were just two years before he got here.

2) The shadow of the late Al McGuire engulfed everything about Wojo and our program.

3) Basketball's marketing and dollar value is way too important to Marquette. No way our beloved leadership would allow a mediocre program for 15 to 17 years. We'd lose most of our fan base if that happened. Think D-E-P-A-U-L !!!!

4) Wojo was a spring-back love after our first love, Shaka, jilted us. It never really fit and when the first love faced an ugly divorce, it was our chance to be romantic again. This time, both sides knew they were right for each other.

5) Coach Drew, by contrast, inherited a crapfest, to put it mildly. It was going to take time to rebuild and, because Baylor is not a traditional basketball school, nor is basketball king, he was going to have time to rebuild and redeploy the program.

Coach Wojo would have loved to have had Coach Drew's runway. Sadly, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me or anyone else that his current flight plan was going to net matearially different results than we've seen in the past seven years.

[jesmu84]

If the NCAA had any integrity, this championship would be vacated within 5 years.

[The Sultan]

1) Wojo walked into Marquette knowing his job was to rebuild and restart a fading glory program. Like it or not, Wojo was going to be measured by the quality of recruits he brought to play for Marquette, the number of times the team made the NCAA and the number of NCAA wins Marquette sustained in his tenure. Simply put, we expected him to rebuild us to where we were just two years before he got here.

2) The shadow of the late Al McGuire engulfed everything about Wojo and our program.

Point #2 isn't the case IMO and is inconsistent with point #1.  I would suggest that the success of Crean and Buzz was way more of a shadow than Al McGuire was.  Al hasn't coached here for over forty years.

[The Sultan]

If the NCAA had any integrity, this championship would be vacated within 5 years.

Uh....why?

Drew got in trouble for sending too many texts and making too many phone calls to recruits ten years ago, but other than that he hasn't been accused of violations.  And the sexual assault issues were related to the football program...not basketball.

[dgies9156]

Point #2 isn't the case IMO and is inconsistent with point #1.  I would suggest that the success of Crean and Buzz was way more of a shadow than Al McGuire was.  Al hasn't coached here for over forty years.

Take a good hard look at our court at the Computing Castle. Look at our uniforms. Then think about the athletic center and the statue inside it.

Don't think it says the Buzz Williams Court or has TOM on our uniforms. That aint Kevin O'Neill looking down on all who enter the Kevin O'Neill center!

C'mon man, we're still living off one shining moment that happened 44 years ago. Al defined us and still does, like it or not.

As to the inconsistency, not really. There's a lot of us who still think Buzz's success two years before was the starting point for getting back to the One Shining Moment we had in the 1970s.

[The Sultan]

Take a good hard look at our court at the Computing Castle. Look at our uniforms. Then think about the athletic center and the statue inside it.

Don't think it says the Buzz Williams Court or has TOM on our uniforms. That aint Kevin O'Neill looking down on all who enter the Kevin O'Neill center!

C'mon man, we're still living off one shining moment that happened 44 years ago. Al defined us and still does, like it or not.

As to the inconsistency, not really. There's a lot of us who still think Buzz's success two years before was the starting point for getting back to the One Shining Moment we had in the 1970s.

The expectations for repeating what Al delivered disappeared long ago.  Most of the fanbase is realistic enough to know that's not going to happen.

The expectations are actually rather tame at this point.  The two coaches prior to Wojo delivered on them. 

[Uncle Rico]

Take a good hard look at our court at the Computing Castle. Look at our uniforms. Then think about the athletic center and the statue inside it.

Don't think it says the Buzz Williams Court or has TOM on our uniforms. That aint Kevin O'Neill looking down on all who enter the Kevin O'Neill center!

C'mon man, we're still living off one shining moment that happened 44 years ago. Al defined us and still does, like it or not.

As to the inconsistency, not really. There's a lot of us who still think Buzz's success two years before was the starting point for getting back to the One Shining Moment we had in the 1970s.

Hallelujah

[Dr. Blackheart]

The expectations for repeating what Al delivered disappeared long ago.  Most of the fanbase is realistic enough to know that's not going to happen.

The expectations are actually rather tame at this point.  The two coaches prior to Wojo delivered on them.

The expectations are to hang banners.  Wojo didn't even get MU into GAS worthy debates.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Let's be realistic about the two situations:

1) Wojo walked into Marquette knowing his job was to rebuild and restart a fading glory program. Like it or not, Wojo was going to be measured by the quality of recruits he brought to play for Marquette, the number of times the team made the NCAA and the number of NCAA wins Marquette sustained in his tenure. Simply put, we expected him to rebuild us to where we were just two years before he got here.

2) The shadow of the late Al McGuire engulfed everything about Wojo and our program.

3) Basketball's marketing and dollar value is way too important to Marquette. No way our beloved leadership would allow a mediocre program for 15 to 17 years. We'd lose most of our fan base if that happened. Think D-E-P-A-U-L !!!!

4) Wojo was a spring-back love after our first love, Shaka, jilted us. It never really fit and when the first love faced an ugly divorce, it was our chance to be romantic again. This time, both sides knew they were right for each other.

5) Coach Drew, by contrast, inherited a crapfest, to put it mildly. It was going to take time to rebuild and, because Baylor is not a traditional basketball school, nor is basketball king, he was going to have time to rebuild and redeploy the program.

Coach Wojo would have loved to have had Coach Drew's runway. Sadly, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me or anyone else that his current flight plan was going to net matearially different results than we've seen in the past seven years.

I rebut:

1) Five years out of the last six, including three Sweet 16s or better, is NOT a program that needed a "rebuild and restart".  And it certainly wasn't "a fading glory program."

2) Ask KO about this one.  That is about where this point ends.

3) No comment.

4) Wojo was a BAD HIRE.  A somewhat understandable knee-jerk reaction to the end of the Buzz era.  We went with "choir boy" over "quality" and it cost us seven years.  It is NOW when your first point is actually applicable.

5) Coach Drew can actually coach.  Even in his early years.  This fact, and this fact in and of itself, separates Drew from Wojo.  Wojo's "runway" could have extended to the moon and back and he would not have caught up to Drew.

[Billy Hoyle]

If the NCAA had any integrity, this championship would be vacated within 5 years.

they have to catch him first.

If they haven't caught Mulkey for paying Brittany Griener's family $15K and a Ford SUV how are they going to catch Drew and his under-the-table payments? The Dirty Preacher indeed.

[The Sultan]

they have to catch him first.

If they haven't caught Mulkey for paying Brittany Griener's family $15K and a Ford SUV how are they going to catch Drew and his under-the-table payments? The Dirty Preacher indeed.

Under the table payments for recruiting classes ranked in the mid-30s and only had a couple of players ranked in the top 100 of their respective classes?

[Silent Verbal]

The expectations for repeating what Al delivered disappeared long ago.  Most of the fanbase is realistic enough to know that's not going to happen.

The expectations are actually rather tame at this point.  The two coaches prior to Wojo delivered on them.

This, exactly.  Wojo actually did Shaka a favor by severely lowering the bar for the next couple seasons.  We'll all just be happy if MU makes the tournament next year.

[Small Orange Soda]

I remember joking to a friend a few years ago that there were some fans so intent on giving Wojo a pass that they acted like he took over for Dave Bliss.  Guess I wasn't wrong.

[dgies9156]

The expectations for repeating what Al delivered disappeared long ago.  Most of the fanbase is realistic enough to know that's not going to happen.

The expectations are actually rather tame at this point.  The two coaches prior to Wojo delivered on them.

You give people sucky basketball and they mistakenly believe it is the norm. They start blaming Milwaukee's lack of a tropical climate. Or, our co-eds aren't up to Texas or UCLA standards. We start blaming everything except the reason why we aren't winning — our coach didn't get it done.

We can be a blue blood again. We know we can. Nobody in 1964 ever would have imagined we'd be what we were. The nattering nabobs of negativism have been around our program way too long.

Go Shaka!

[Goose]

Silent

I noted the day after TX lost that Shaka would be entering a perfect situation at MU and the timing was right this time around. When KO took over have uniforms that matched was a starting point and expectations were low. Only negative for Shaka on the expectation front is we all know he can recruit at a high level. The expectation bar is going rise rapidly, possibly starting this week with some transfer and recruiting news.

[The Sultan]

You give people sucky basketball and they mistakenly believe it is the norm. They start blaming Milwaukee's lack of a tropical climate. Or, our co-eds aren't up to Texas or UCLA standards. We start blaming everything except the reason why we aren't winning — our coach didn't get it done.

We can be a blue blood again. We know we can. Nobody in 1964 ever would have imagined we'd be what we were. The nattering nabobs of negativism have been around our program way too long.

Go Shaka!

Look at our history as a basketball program. We were a blue blood for a 13 year timeframe that ended over four decades ago. It can happen but it's just not very likely.

[Lennys Tap]

I rebut:

1) Five years out of the last six, including three Sweet 16s or better, is NOT a program that needed a "rebuild and restart".  And it certainly wasn't "a fading glory program."

2) Ask KO about this one.  That is about where this point ends.

3) No comment.

4) Wojo was a BAD HIRE.  A somewhat understandable knee-jerk reaction to the end of the Buzz era.  We went with "choir boy" over "quality" and it cost us seven years.  It is NOW when your first point is actually applicable.

5) Coach Drew can actually coach.  Even in his early years.  This fact, and this fact in and of itself, separates Drew from Wojo.  Wojo's "runway" could have extended to the moon and back and he would not have caught up to Drew.

Nailed it, especially 4 and 5.

The people at Marquette who hired Wojo thought he would be a good basketball coach. They were wrong. The people at Baylor who hired Drew thought he would be a good basketball coach. They were right. Really tired of Billy and jesmu accusations about him being "dirty" without evidence. They sound like Northwestern fans. Everybody laughs at them too.

[Uncle Rico]

Nailed it, especially 4 and 5.

The people at Marquette who hired Wojo thought he would be a good basketball coach. They were wrong. The people at Baylor who hired Drew thought he would be a good basketball coach. They were right. Really tired of Billy and Chicago accusations about him being "dirty" without evidence. They sound like Northwestern fans. Everybody laughs at them too.

Scott Drew can coach.  It's also true that he's grown into the position and become better as the years have gone along.  Baylor had that luxury while Marquette doesn't/didn't.  Baylor fan would still probably win a football title first and foremost and being good in basketball was a bonus.  I don't think a lot of people looked at Scott Drew and saw a great X's and O's guy 5 or 6 years ago.  I know because that was the consensus when they played UW-Madison in the Sweet 16 in 2014

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If the NCAA had any integrity, this championship would be vacated within 5 years.

Source?

[Viper]

You give people sucky basketball and they mistakenly believe it is the norm. They start blaming Milwaukee's lack of a tropical climate. Or, our co-eds aren't up to Texas or UCLA standards. We start blaming everything except the reason why we aren't winning — our coach didn't get it done.

We can be a blue blood again. We know we can. Nobody in 1964 ever would have imagined we'd be what we were. The nattering nabobs of negativism have been around our program way too long.

Go Shaka!

amen! It takes vision and hard work. The financial resources are there. The facilities are there. Why can't mu be 'Nova? Why can't MU be Gonzaga? If Shaka is the guy, he'll get the players. He'll have the right assistants. A return to dominance can definitely happen. Too many 'probably never happen' mindsets. Oh the competition. Milwaukee is too cold. MU academics. Oh oh oh. Put together a plan. Stick to the plan. Be relentless. Don't fold. Screw the doubters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Really tired of Billy and jesmu accusations about him being "dirty" without evidence. They sound like Northwestern fans. Everybody laughs at them too.

It's not just guys like Billy and jesmu. It's Scott's peers as well. This is an older article but a panel of 100 coaches picked Scott second.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/critical-coaches-who-is-perceived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport/

Could be sour grapes but combine what some of his peers have said with the realities of what the Baylor athletic department has been known to tolerate and you can understand the perception.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And the sexual assault issues were related to the football program...not basketball.

Actually, it was related to the entire university, not just the football team. Some of the football cases got leaked and were made the face of the scandal. I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that the basketball team wasn't involved as well.

As someone who works in Title IX an hour down the road from Baylor, the public never becomes aware of ~99% of Title IX cases that occur at any given university. And plenty of them involve high profile individuals (not just athletes).

[Lennys Tap]

It's not just guys like Billy and jesmu. It's Scott's peers as well. This is an older article but a panel of 100 coaches picked Scott second.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/critical-coaches-who-is-perceived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport/

Wow. Tom Crean the 5th biggest cheater in the Uber slimy world of college basketball! Was Buzz brought in to clean up our program? Chico? Billy? Bueller? Anybody...?