Another day ... / mass shooting

[The Sultan]

Fluffy, Hundreds of thousands sacrificed life and limb to end slavery . Less than 1% of America owned slaves, including thousands of Black and Native American slaveowners who fought for the Confederacy.  Incidentally, the first recorded slave owner in America was a Black man in the 1600's. Slavery was ubiquitous in the world.
The Barbary pirates ,for example, captured more than a million europeans  during the 17th and 18th Centuries and sold them into slavery including a famous raid on an Irish town where every denizen young and old were sold at the slave markets in Istanbul. It took Jefferson to send in the Marines and defeat Tripoli to leave ships alone and end that scourge. History has several sides to every tale.

None of this addressed my point. And are you actually trying to minimize...slavery???

[Pakuni]

False

True.

Results. Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

"Among the 27 developed countries, there was a significant positive correlation between guns percapita per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths"

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(13)00444-0/pdf

Researchers have established a strong link between gun ownership and gun deaths. The connection is clearest with suicide, but studies also say ownership rates play a statistically significant role in gun homicides.

https://projects.oregonlive.com/ucc-shooting/gun-ownership/

I'll provide more proof if you wish.

[Pakuni]

Silly me, I thought we were going to have a kinder, gentler country starting January 20, aina?

It's been 159 days since a deadly insurrection on any capitol buildings.

[tower912]

True.

Results. Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

"Among the 27 developed countries, there was a significant positive correlation between guns percapita per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths"

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(13)00444-0/pdf

Researchers have established a strong link between gun ownership and gun deaths. The connection is clearest with suicide, but studies also say ownership rates play a statistically significant role in gun homicides.

https://projects.oregonlive.com/ucc-shooting/gun-ownership/

I'll provide more proof if you wish.

Duh.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

None of this addressed my point. And are you actually trying to minimize...slavery???

From the dude that has constantly posted racist things? Not surprising.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

False

Riiiiiiiight.

[MU82]

Not a mass shooting, but a mask shooting ...

Cashier fatally shot after argument over face masks at Georgia supermarket, authorities say

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/06/14/face-mask-argument-georgia-supermaket-shooting-victims-suspect/7696567002/?utm_term=OZY&utm_campaign=pdb&utm_content=Wednesday_06.16.21&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email

DECATUR, Ga. – A grocery store cashier in the Atlanta area was killed and three other people were wounded Monday in a shooting that followed an argument over wearing face masks in the supermarket, authorities said.

DeKalb County Sheriff Melody Maddox said the shooting occurred inside the Big Bear Supermarket in Decatur while several people were inside the business. She said a female cashier was killed when a man opened fire.

"There was some confrontation, argument – I'm not sure exactly what – in reference to the wearing of masks, at which time the subject pulled out a weapon and shot the cashier," Maddox said at a news conference. Maddox said she did not know the details of the argument.

The customer was identified as Victor Lee Tucker Jr., 30, of Palmetto, Georgia, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. The agency said preliminary information indicates that Tucker got into an argument with the cashier and left the store without making his purchase, but he immediately returned inside.

"Tucker walked directly back to the cashier, pulled out a handgun and shot her," the Georgia Bureau of Investigation wrote in the news release.

According to other articles, Tucker had numerous prior arrests, including a 2018 case of battery, cruelty to children and obstruction of law enforcement.

But thank goodness his 2nd Amendment rights weren't infringed upon!

[lawdog77]

Was the gun legal?

[Galway Eagle]

The more I think about it the more I realize the whole "it's a persons fault not the gun" argument is pretty much iron clad, illogical, but iron clad. Literally everybody with a gun is good until they do something bad so if I take it away from someone based purely on potential I'm the A$$ but if they do something bad then conservatives can say it was just another rotten egg.

[The Sultan]

The more I think about it the more I realize the whole "it's a persons fault not the gun" argument is pretty much iron clad, illogical, but iron clad. Literally everybody with a gun is good until they do something bad so if I take it away from someone based purely on potential I'm the A$$ but if they do something bad then conservatives can say it was just another rotten egg.

Right.  It doesn't require any critical thinking at all.  It's just black and white.

[MU82]

Was the gun legal?

No account of the article that I've read so far has included that information.

It obviously was very available, though.

If only we had more guns!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Was the gun legal?

Could be. Along with 393M+ others.

[lawdog77]

No account of the article that I've read so far has included that information.

It obviously was very available, though.

If only we had more guns!

If it wasn't legal, how do you propose to get it out of his hands before this travesty happened?

[lawdog77]

Could be. Along with 393M+ others.

Talking about this case specifically. Try to keep up.

[MU82]

If it wasn't legal, how do you propose to get it out of his hands before this travesty happened?

Not gonna go into hypotheticals before we have all the facts.

But clearly, if only every man, woman and child had dozens of guns, there would never be any shootings!

[lawdog77]

Not gonna go into hypotheticals before we have all the facts.

But clearly, if only every man, woman and child had dozens of guns, there would never be any shootings!

That's a great way to have a discussion. Is this how you act around people in real life?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Talking about this case specifically. Try to keep up.

Me too

[lawdog77]

Me too

He owned 393M guns?

[buckchuckler]

Not gonna go into hypotheticals before we have all the facts.

But clearly, if only every man, woman and child had dozens of guns, there would never be any shootings!

Nice work not going into hypotheticals.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The more I think about it the more I realize the whole "it's a persons fault not the gun" argument is pretty much iron clad, illogical, but iron clad. Literally everybody with a gun is good until they do something bad so if I take it away from someone based purely on potential I'm the A$$ but if they do something bad then conservatives can say it was just another rotten egg.

Galway , maybe we should take peoples cars away because some drive drunk.   
Lost in the rhetoric are the numerous cases where someone has protected themselves or property because they had a gun to defend themselves. Some studies suggest that may happen thousands of times per year.
It has been correctly stated above that suicide is the number one cause of gun death followed by gang violence. But i believe fists and clubs actually dwarf those numbers.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

None of this addressed my point. And are you actually trying to minimize...slavery???

  Hardly minimizing the terrors of slavery just trying to mention that slavery wasn't invented by Europeans and
it was practiced far before America saw its ugliness.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

He owned 393M guns?

At least one of them.

I mean, let's stop the dance. Either you think the proliferation of guns in the U.S. is not a problem and/or you believe there is nothing that can be done about it, or you believe the opposite of those two things.

Every data point available indicates that reducing the number of firearms reduces the number of firearm deaths. There are dozens of suggestions on how to reduce the number of firearms in the country, many on this site, as well as how to make society safer both for gun owners and the general populace. But instead of focusing on that, you want to narrow the discussion to a single case in order, it would appear, to argue that it is a bridge too far to enact reasonable gun legislation. In the meantime, another 40 people are going to be murdered with firearms today.

[Galway Eagle]

Galway , maybe we should take peoples cars away because some drive drunk.   
Lost in the rhetoric are the numerous cases where someone has protected themselves or property because they had a gun to defend themselves. Some studies suggest that may happen thousands of times per year.
It has been correctly stated above that suicide is the number one cause of gun death followed by gang violence. But i believe fists and clubs actually dwarf those numbers.

We have more stringent requirements for cars than guns. Im all for mandatory training, supervised hours at a range, age restrictions, consistently having to update your gun license, liability insurance for the owner, take tests occasionally etc.

Also you believe more people die from fists and clubs than guns?  i must have missed the great Las Vegas punch out where one guy punched 411 people and killed 60 with his fists. Hell I have two Golden gloves to my name and couldn't kill someone with my fists let alone have some type of breakdown where I went on a punching spree and took down a Crowd. Doubt even prime Tyson could (though he'd add his teeth)

[Pakuni]

Galway , maybe we should take peoples cars away because some drive drunk.

This is such a silly analogy, yet people make it over and over again.
Cars exist to provide the mobility needed in modern American life. That some people choose to drive cars drunk, and that sometimes harms others, is an unfortunate side effect of cars' existence, not the reason they exist.
Non-sporting firearms - handguns and assault rifles in particular - exist for the purpose of killing other people. When someone takes an AR-15 into a grocery store and guns down a bunch of shoppers, that weapon is being used as was intended - to kill people. 
It's a pretty simple to make the case that vehicles serve the greater good of society, despite the rare negative consequences of their existence. But how does allowing private citizens to own military-grade weaponry benefit society, especially in light of the consequences?

It has been correctly stated above that suicide is the number one cause of gun death followed by gang violence. But i believe fists and clubs actually dwarf those numbers.

You believe wrong. Very, very wrong.
In 2019, for example, more than 9,500 homicides in the U.S. were committed with firearms.
That same year, 600 people died as a result of beating with hands/fists/feet and 397 died from beatngs with blunt objects.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

[The Sultan]

  Hardly minimizing the terrors of slavery just trying to mention that slavery wasn't invented by Europeans and
it was practiced far before America saw its ugliness.

Again, didn't address my point in the least. 

Rocket said: "the difference between us and the rest is that we saw slavery and human rights abuses were wrong and outlawed them."

My point is that the United States was actually late in the game when it came to outlawing slavery, AND we had to undertake a war that killed hundreds of thousands of American citizens to accomplish it.  Of the countries of Europe and their former colonies, I believe Brazil was the only country to abolish slavery after the United States.  And almost everywhere else it was done peacefully.